I wear decent clothing with body-armour but I still believe that there’s no substitute for experience and defensive riding, 12 years as a motorcycle courier taught me that anything can happen no matter how good you think you are.
@@millwall007a solid dose of paranoia to spice it all. Reading NTSB incident reports also helps avoiding getting entangled in a chain of adverse action/reaction/benign neglect that generally ends up in disaster.
I was about to say the same thing. I've been riding for 22 years, been a courrier for 4. And even with a good defensive driving skill, you will fall. You can't always account for some of the morons with a "driving license"... I would feel naked without my protective gear (helmet, jacket, gloves and boots), even in summer. Always protected me well every single time I got thrown on the ground. Never had a high speed collision, I value my life too much to drive like a madman when riding. An adapted speed will always give your defensive skills the time to kick in and save the day!
Whilst in the military and as a motorcyclist, I was required to attend a four day safe riding course. One of the speakers was a doctor from the base hospital. He explained that the human body only has so many resources to call upon when dealing with traumatic injury. One injury, say.. a broken arm, isn't so bad. Two injuries is more difficult. Three or four, especially if they are to vital organs, and survivability is greatly reduced. We're talking head, kidney, skin (yes, road rash counts). His message was to wear the PPE to mitigate damage so that the body has the resources it needs to survive the injuries that you HAVE suffered. He also spoke of the effect of speed on the severity of injury. The difference of a few kph/mph may be the difference between mild concussion and a brain so swollen that you die. Literally life or death. The course was very good, btw. I still use the knowledge that I acquired, and that was almost 40 years ago. Maybe I'm still here because of it.
Yes, the skin is the largest human organ... I tried how it goes, crashed with my motorcycle and woke up lying in the middle of the road. Thought first nothing happened but had been rolling a few times, helmet and my leather jacket had scratches all around. Broke a few ribs, collarbone, a compression fracture in the spine etc. If I had been 30 years younger there might have been minimal injuries but age is a factor too... Now, I think I better wear ATGATT and still not crash, not at least from high speeds...😁
This is a very good point, well made! These garments work on the same principles as crumple zones on a car in that they reduce severity or absorb impact or abrasion. Even if something is only rated for 20mph that still mitigates your injury if you crash/slide. Someone I know came off their bike and went through a barbed-wire fence. They were seriously injured, but the tough fabric of the jacket she was wearing reduced the injuries - at least slightly.
You're right about what the armour can't protect you against. It can do a lot in a single accident, falling in a curve and sliding on the ground. I tested that last summer, and the clothes got scratches but I didn't. I tested the same on a bicycle 20 years ago, and had to visit the nurse every day for 3 weeks to care for the wounds... in both cases, there were sand, gravel and leafs on the road, but the consequences for me were hugely different... I only had motorcycle jeans and a lighter jacket, plus gloves, of course. The latter are probably the most important. It worked as good as expected
You risk amputation just from the potential infection that the sand gravel and dirt on the tarmac can cause on and below the skin if your garment fails. A friend of mine knows this personally.
@@inoz92 yes, I devastated a whole summer due to a bicycle accident without any protectors.... It took a week to clear the wound from sand and dirt and over a month to heal it. Basically the whole summer in bandages.
In line with the defensive riding philosophy, I'm reminded of an old flying adage. Adapted for motorcycling - The superior rider uses their superior skills and expertise to avoid those situations that would need their superior skills and expertise.
@@Ijusthopeitsquickthe average rider by avoiding situations that require superior skills becomes a superior rider... therefore the average rider can also be a superior rider... I think 🤔
@@Ijusthopeitsquick Watch crash and close call videos on RUclips, not just bike ones either, car, bus, lorry are all worth it. You can learn a lot from the mistakes of others.
In order to acquire superior skills you have to push yourself. The more safe and controlled the environment the better but you can be riding defensively for your riding skills and that's very different than riding defensively for the average rider. In other words, there's relativity involved.
I recently slipped on a wet floor in Lidl and landed hard on my back and elbow. No, I wasn’t riding a bike at the time, but I was wearing my armoured jacket. The security guards were amazed at how quickly I, as a grey haired old duffer, bounced back to my feet.
Bit of a trend, I tripped over a kerb at the said emporium, landed on my knee and split my meniscus in several places. I’ve been told the knee is screwed and eventually will need a metal version. My point is, during 30+ years of riding a motorcycle with no armour, I’ve had a couple of accidents, whereby I departed company from my ride, but no broken bones or knackered knees. I hate with a passion nanny states. They can never regulate against one’s fate, it’s all about £s and control.
I wear my gear all the time. I have various jackets for all seasons. Luckily it doesn’t get that cold in Sydney Australia. I still ride as if I’m naked. Armour should never change a rider’s attitude with riding. My back protector helps me keep my back straight. It helps me with my posture. I use the time with putting my bike gear as something to set my mind into a riding mode, not a “I’m protected” mode. So I use my bike gear for other purposes than just ‘ultimate protection’. I think they look great. It might add a few more minor percentages with skin protection but the best protection is defensive riding.
I recently had a lowside on the exit ramp of a motorway and slid down the asphalt. Picked up the bike, brushed of the dust and rode a further 250 kms that day. I was wearing full gear, including Helite airbag, and all the protective panels and my helmet had scratches, Most scratches on knee and hip and on the back of the helite turtle. So i'm in favor of full gear, as supplemnet to the best protection a motorcycle rider has, the mass between his ears.
Maybe If you would not had been wearing your gear, you would have been riding more carefully, with a little less speed, because you would have felt more vulnareable, you would not had your low sider, like most of the riders passing that exit ramp before you did not have a low sider.
I agree with your assessment of armored gear. I wear it in the hopes that should the motorcycle and I part ways and I’m sliding on the pavement, the armor will help prevent some degree of road rash and mitigate some impact. Not once, did I ever expect any armored gear to save my life in the event of a collision, which is far different from a slide. I do use a Helite Turtle Air Vest to help protect vital organs and spine. It is hot and heavy, but it does give me some peace of mind. Like you, I spent a few decades with the police and in investigating many motorcycle crashes, I had found that alcohol and mostly, ridiculously poor riding skills led to equally poor outcomes when things went awry. I have to compliment you on your channel. It certainly has become one of my favorites. Ride safe, Stuart.
Morning Stuart, Yes, I totally agree that armour at best will cut down on road rash it is defentley a risk based decision on the individual. However, even in the summer, I always wear a jacket, jeans, boots, and gloves they are not a force field, and yes, I have burnt my backside even at coming off at 15 mph, what cringes me is seeing riders in the summer out on bikes in shorts, T shirt, no gloves, it is their choice, but sorry that is not going to end well.
OK, Stuart, My first motorcycle riding wear in 1977 was an army surplus trench coat, a pair of Wrangler jeans, a pair of fireman's boots, a pair of black leather gauntlets with orange reflective triangles on the top for doing hand signals and a Stadium open face helmet and aviator goggles. It was 1979 before I bought my first proper motorcycle jacket, a British made Wolf Leathers jacket with padded shoulders, sleeves and kidney region, it cost me £200 which was a lot of money in those days considering I only earned £65 a week. I also bought a Paddy Hopkirk full face helmet from Halfords, proper motorcycle boots and shorter gloves. Happy days.
One of the things that is worth looking at is abrasion resistance clothing. If you end up sliding down the tarmac and gravel road on your backside the likely hood of keeping your skin attached is worth paying extra for.
Blimey Stuart, this subject brings back some difficult memories for me. In 1979 I was involved in a head-on collision with a car being driven on the wrong side of the road. As this happened on a sharp left hand bend, I only had a split second to try and serve out of the way. All this did was expose the right side of my body and my leg took the full force of the impact. I'm now 44 years into my alternative existence as an above-knee amputee. However, about six months before this accident I invested in the best crash helmet on the market - a Bell Star II. My Bell helmet saved my life - the back of the glass fibre shell was almost wiped out, but it did the job! As you recommend, buy the best rider equipment you can afford as your life may depend upon it.
I came off my bike at 30mph wearing my old Hein Gerricke jacket with no armour, the jacket was hardly scratched, but my elbows and shoulders were badly grazed just by the impact on the road, same with my legs, my kevlar jeans stopped me touching tarmac but my knees were grazed just from the impact. I think that day was the only time I hadn't worn armour in 8 years and it hurt. Agreed armour won't save you in impact with vehicles or road signs, but it might save you a few weeks discomfort after a tumble.
Excellent guidance… Ride as if you are INVISIBLE. And, “bigglesace” is correct: Their are old pilots, and bold pilots. But, there are no old, bold pilots!🏍
I agree wholeheartedly. The mantra of "ride like you're invisible" should be drummed into every learner motorcyclist. Treat every other vehicle out there as if they're out to kill you. For the 1st 5 yrs of my motorcycling (age 17-22, I'm 66 now), I fell off a lot, because I overstepped my abilities to keep the bike upright (I had an RD 400 at the time). Then I had a child. Priorities changed. I started riding defensively. Haven't fallen off in over 40 years. Doesn't mean I'm invincible, just a change in attitude. Didn't bother me a bit riding my Harley in shorts, singlet, thongs (flip-flops), and no gloves if I was riding around town in summer. My choice, and my risk assessment. Make it a highway ride, and I put on decent gear. Just don't tell me to ride safe, and don't bother to copy and paste those stupid Facebook memes asking car drivers to watch out for motorcyclists.
One of the most important things is the abrasive resistance of the materials the garment is made of. As you say the armour is a bit of a bonus. Impact is different to sliding down the road, interesting thoughts Stuart.
...well said sir! I've been motorcycling for 20+ years now and the best advice I've ever had has been from ex-motorcycle coppers. They had been there, seen it and experienced it.
I had just started out riding, and didn't have any proper gear, just helmet and gloves. Wouldn't have been going more than 20km/h when I low sided after hitting a patch of sand on a tight bend. The front wheel tucked in and the bike came down on top of my leg. After I hit the pavement, momentum caused me to slide for about two meters. Yep, just two meters, that's how slow I was going... And that little two meter slide was all it took to rip straight through my regular jeans, and take all of the skin off of my kneecap. I had further scrapes on my arms and side, but they weren't as bad as my knee, which took weeks to heal, and still has a visible scar more than a year later. As Stuart says, armour is not designed to save you from a high speed impact with a solid object - nothing can save you from that... It's designed to protect you from injury when sliding on completely unforgiving paved surfaces, at moderate and low speeds. As my experience shows, even a very low speed slide can rip through regular clothing, and then all you have left is your skin.
Pretty much the very point I was making in my last video! Body armour might, I repeat, might mitigate abrasion. Thanks for making this video, now my grandkids will understand why I don’t wear it much.
Well said, Sir. Wise words indeed. As a motorcyclist of 49 years, back in the 70s/80s, we had a saying I think coined by MAG; "Risk Compensation Factor." The safer you feel, the more risk you take. Originally (I believe) to explain why a great deal of one bike, one car incidents involved Volvo cars. As an ex motorcycle instructor, we taught that defensive riding was a must and to treat all other road users as idiots. Safe riding, Stu.
Great observations, Stuart 👍 As riders we are, by nature, not of the same mindset as beaurocrats (safetycrats?). They have through self interest, earned our distrust. Swinging a leg over a two wheeled, engine powered machine and loving it, is the indication that riders are not cut from the same cloth -kevlar or otherwise- as the other part of the population who cannot accept the risk involved in motorcycling. We are riding our motorcycles on a rock flying around the Sun, for a limited time only; let's enjoy the ride and the time we have to spend here. This year, 2024, marks 55 seasons of me not ending up dead on a motorcycle, and I hope to continue this streak, despite all the threats to our hobby from government agencies, cameras, Karens, and everyone else who do not understand the thrill and pleasure of riding. Keep the sensible & accurate commentary coming; it's great to watch your videos and hear what you have to say.
Pretty much on point. Armor may lessen damage in an impact, but what I am out to do is protect my spine. I love touring on my motorcycle, but I don’t want to be a paraplegic, so I ride with my Klim airbag vest. No prevention if the crash is bad enough, but it’s the best option out there.
Another very clear sorting of the facts. People see those slow motion shots of bike racers sliding and tumbling around and then walking away. And think it will happen to them too when the need arises. No one ever imagines encountering fencing, curbing, trash bins, parked vehicles and so on while they are "sliding to happiness”. And thinking yourself lucky you’re preventing road rash while "t-boning” the oblivious driver on her phone won’t cross your mind.
IMHO, I agree, the benefit to the armor is to mitigate road rash and possibly protect things like elbows, hips and knees from direct hits. You're gonna be sore, you're gonna be bruised, it isn't a full body airbag or whatever, but it is protective to an extent. Just my two cents worth. 🤷 It's sort of the difference between a full face helmet and anything else, a half helmet may protect your brain, but what about your face? And yes, definitely, there are places where name brand and paying the cost still matters. I also agree with using your brain, my dad always told me to look ahead and try to have an "out" just in case, you know what you're going to do, it's that other idiot you've got to watch out for. Another great vid as usual, thanks! 😎👍
@@iivaridark6850head protection makes sense, after that, it’s abrasion resistance and very limited impact resistance. Racers often wear airbag suits too, to protect vs high side accidents. The latter is of no use to me or any sensible rider on the road because you can only high side under certain circumstances. If they occur on the road, you’re already massively out of limits for road riding. I’m of Stuart’s mindset, attitudes and practices. Riding since 1977. The one injury accident I had was my fault, and I badly broke my wrist. No equipment could have prevented the injury, given the situation I placed myself in. I’ve had two non injury accidents, in both my non armoured jacket and trousers helped me avoid injury worthy of note. Both were slippery road offs involving no other vehicle and only a brief slide down the road. If I’d hit a kerb or road furniture, I’d have died in both cases. I ride for pleasure only in the dry & I try to be away from other road users unless I’m riding with mates.
Ayup Stu! The old adage “If you’ve got a ten bob head, buy a ten bob crash helmet” is so true. And all armour is is a shock absorber. It’s not going to stop serious injury, it’s just going to absorb the initial hit. Anyway, I’ve got to take the Irish Wolfhound whippet out for a walk.
Well said sir, well said. I've had this mindset for a while, friend of mine was killed back in 2009 when some unobservant old dear pulled out in front of him from a petrol station. It was pretty much the situation you described towards the end of the video. He had all the gear on, armoured jacket, Kevlar jeans, boots - didn't matter. After that as I looked at it in detail, I came to realise the same thing as you, it may mitigate the risks slightly, but in the end if you're in a bad enough off which doesn't take much on a bike - if you're done, you're done.
Stuart; former EOD Tech/Bomb Squad. We never wore any armor. We knew it would not protect us and it only hindered us and made the operation more dangerous.
Thanks stuart. Like you said, it should be up to us what to say, think, do and wear. All the rules they make up is Just to make us slaves of the system. Only when I take a ride on my motorbice i feel free, not watched and Just be by myself. Please let me be and stop telling me what i should do dear elites of this world. Keep on with your video's mr. Stuart, i am loving it, drive save everybody and stay free. Berry from Holland
i've been riding since i was 14 years old, and now i'm well over 50. Since I upgraded my ride from a Suzuki GSX-400T to my 2022 Triumph Trident 660, I realized that I needed some protective gear. I have a top-notch Arai helmet (Japanese), and a full-protection jacket, with shoulder, front, back armor etc. I have never had an accident since I was 16 years old, so I cannot really say how much protection this gear offers, but certainly it feels a lot better than wearing nothing. Now, the Greek government has issued the following statistics: 90% of motorcyclists losing their life in an accident did not wear a helmet. Of the 10% that lost their lives wearing a helmet, 90% would have been saved if they wore a jacket with chest protection (thorax). I find that these statistics are enough to make wearing a protective gear VERY important, and in fact, even if this clothing saves only one life out of 1000 accidents, it's still worth wearing it. I find it offensive that you, an officer of the law as you say, advocate that wearing protective gear is meaningless, and is a trick by the bureaucrats of the EU. And one final remark: if protective clothing is meaningless, then why is EVERYone participating in any organized race (moto-gp etc.) wearing it? just to advertize the EU clothes? I don't think so...
Absolutely spot on with all your point Stu. I remember when I 1st started riding in the early 1980's there was none of this kind of armor. All we really had was a leather jacket a pair of jeans and some kind of stout boots like ex-army boots. I was taught to ride defensively and like you said the 1st line of defense is your brain. Personally speaking I feel way to restricted wearing the new kind of gear and in turn that hinders comfort, and so is unsafe for me. Some will not like what I have to say but in my mind if your going to wear airbags and can not feel the freedom, then just get a car you will be safer. Each to there own though. Thanks for post!!!
I spent 30 years teaching engineering, woodwork, and construction students that PPE will only reduce the severity of injury when things go wrong not stop all injury and the most important PPE is the grey matter between your ears. That holds true for motorbikes as well. Here in Australia there is no mandatory CE level that motorbike clothing sold here has to meet. We do have an organisation called Motocap that tests helmets, jackets, pants and gloves the rates them according to the type of protection they give, or don't give. Interestingly some cheap non CE compliant clothing often scores higher than the CE rated gear. Motocap does provide a useful resource when buying clothing etc.
Now then Stuart, I have the CE approved armour and light / heavyweight suits to use it in. I wouldn't consider going for a ride without it! but thats my choice. I agree with you and your thoughts on this subject entirely, this video I think was well balanced and thought provoking. A good job well done.
I have all the gear I can afford and it's Dainese armour protected stuff. I believe it MAY provide some protection in certain situations above not wearing it, but I'm not daft. I know coming off at the speeds I go sometimes is pretty much a one way ticket to Hell, so the only protection from that is to make sure I don't mess it up! AND try to make sure anyone else around me does not mess it up for me. That's what riding a bike is all about. We risk, and we love life because it is not guaranteed in ANY situation. I have a mate in the paramedics and he darkly jokes that leather suits are great because it provides them with a nice bag to keep all the bits in when they pick a motorcyclist off the road.
I had an unfortunate unplanned get off at 70 mph last July due to a sudden tire blowout. I was glad I was wearing proper riding pants, jacket and helmet because I kept almost 100% of my skin. That said it did nothing to stop the significant near fatal chest damage from hitting the handlebar wrong. It's all a matter of luck. Someone asked if I was going to add a chest protector but I said no. The gear has to be comfortable and nice looking. If I add a chest protector what's next? Neck brace, air bags, full racing suit? Nah, just keeping a decent covering to protect my skin and ride safe. The rest is just luck. PS: safety Nazi's mandating everyone's decisions regarding risk makes me sick. People should be free to take the chances they deem appropriate as long as they aren't harming others.
If you lived on a planet with just you and only you to bear the consequences then crack on with that mentality. However, you don't, you have family, friends, roadside witnesses, the emergency services and the very strained health system that all have to take the fallout from your accident and if adding an extra bit of PPE reduces some of that, then it's totally worth it. Just think how much an airbag jacket or chest protector would have reduced your injuries that day, lessened or maybe even prevented a stay in hospital and therefore freed up space for someone else who might need it. I work in the emergency services, you must be aware how strained things are... And because you don't live on a planet of just yourself, you owe a duty of care to those you inhabit this world with, to wear crash gear that will prevent a knock on effect to those around you who you do have a duty of care to.... No matter how much you think it may be aesthetically unappealing. I'd never suggest folk give up their pleasure of riding but for the sake of a bit of money to add that extra bit of protection then it's totally worth it. After all, you likely spend a lot more money on your bike, so why not spend more on your life. I'd rather look like an idiot in the eyes of people rather than take up a hospital bed from some old chap who's just had a heart attack. And the fact is; most PPE is comfortable or you get used to it. I wear a fully integrated gyroscopic airbag jacket, protects the whole torso and immobilises my neck. Inflation time is quicker than you can blink. I never ride without it. You may feel like the choice is yours, but sadly the consequences are never limited to just you.
@@Bavenbushcraft Your comment is a typical example Of the modern shame based thought control, cancel culture, I referred to in the video. Rampant in the mismanaged, underperforming woke NHS !
Not sure if many people know this but soon after the EU introduced the CE Mark, China introduced the C E Mark meaning " China Export" so a C E Mark may not be what you think.
"Driving sensibly and responsibly..." I believe you are spot on. Our engaged minds and senses are our best "protection." When taking the basic rider course here in the US, we were taught SEE...Search for situations; Evaluate what if any evasive or preventative actions are required; Execute the necessary action (braking, swerving, slowing, etc.). You have to be constantly engaged with your surroundings by scanning, observing, and anticipating. I don't always wear protective gear (except for a helmet) but I always try to practice SEE. Avoiding an accident altogether is better than having to survive one.
Good morning Stu. Another good video. Very thought provoking. Also enjoyed the riding shots. Nice to see some blue skies. I loved the autumnal colours of the trees too. PPE is a personal thing. I always wear armour, even in hot weather. It makes me cringe when I see riders wearing shorts and tee shirts. It’s their choice though. If health and safety had there way our motorcycles would have four wheels and a protective bodywork surrounding the rider.
I wear all the gear all the time including airbag. I’m old and take longer to fix so feel like I’m increasing my odds of survival slightly. I’ve had a few unscheduled dismounts in my youth and it smarts a bit 😬 My choice and I respect anyone else’s choice. Ride safe 👍🏻
Well said Stu, when serving in the military I was always told that bomb disposal suits were mainly to keep as much of a body together to make retrieval possible, so you are absolutely correct. Transfer your responsibility for your safety to a piece of plastic at your own risk. I wear a Knox armoured shirt fully aware of it’s capabilities. Please carry on with your sensible advice and leave these trolls to their caves. I for one get a lot from your weekly videos. Thank you Uncle Stu!
Good video Stuart. My choice is ‘all the gear all the time’ including the armour pads but I recognise that it won’t be infallible especially in a head on with a bus or a lamp post.
Hi Stu, the time when i was started motorcycle riding (long time ago), it was natural that we wearing protective motorcycle clothing, i was socialized that way, i feel naked if i not wearing it during the ride. I never asked a reason why we wearing the protective gear. If i see a motorcycle rider wearing tshirts, sport shoes, shorts, especialy on litre sportsbike..i dont see him as a motorcycle rider....i see him only as tourist in the motorcycle business. He is the other end of the spectrum, but there are layers in between, if you understend what i meen....👍
In my most serious accident, back in the early 90s, my Suzuki GS 550 chop was hit from behind by a car, as I was turning into a campsite. I slid down one side of the road, while the bike bounced down the other. I came to a halt about 40 feet away from the impact and stood up with just a cracked rib. I was wearing a late 80s Lewis leather i.e. not made in the UK and leather trousers. Both had padding, rather than armour. The jacket had no damage, other than a scratch on the metal Lewis tab on the left arm. No damage to the trousers.
This reminds me of a proverb that goes, an intelligent individual will search for a solution to a problem. A wise person will avoid that situation completely. Mr Fillingham you are indeed a wise man.
Couldn't agree more. I've been riding since 1966. I've hit the road or track several times at speeds over 80 mph and been very very lucky to walk away every time. The newer gear certainly makes a huge difference in how much skin you leave behind, but as you said, helmets have done more than all the other gear combined to actually save lives. I've never ridden without one and that is why I can write this now. That said, I don't heal anything like as fast as I used to, so I wear ATGATT, every time. My choice, but clearly not everyone's. Cheers.
Hi Stuart, in 1976 I had an accident on my bike going to work. I was doing thirty at the time when a car turned right directly in front of me. I sustained a number of injuries of which I suffer to this day. I'm one hundred percent in agreement in that what ever I would have been wearing I would have sustained the same injuries. I don't uphold the wearing of shorts and tee shirts but sensible clothing to protect yourself from obvious injuries occurred from abrasive surfaces. Wear what you like, as you say, the car or brick wall will create serious if not fatal injuries. Thanks for the video, always interesting subjects
The only three pieces of gear I must wear on every ride is leather gloves, helmet and my airbag vest. I'll do without armored jackets, pants and boots unless I'm going on a long or fast ride. I usually ride slow. The airbag vest is a must for me now. I had a lowside crash where I slid on oily pavement and hit a curb with my chest. The airbag deployed before I even hit the ground, and it prevented me from breaking an untold number of ribs. That vest really saved me.
Many years ago, I was given this advice. Whilst my human rights allowed me to wear what I chose, I had a human responsibility to others to minimise potential injury in a spill. Specifically, the costs to the NHS repairing any damage sustained help to increase our insurance premiums due to personal injury claims. Just a thought?
I've never thought of clothing as anything more than road rash protection. Having suffered some pretty bad road rash on my back just from crashing a bicycle I definitely wear protective clothing on my motorcycle.
Spot on Stuart, well put. I was wearing all the right gear when hit on the side and dragged along a freeway guard rail by a van, and while it saved me from losing all my skin I still had broken bones etc. Definitely not a magic bubble. A lot of us ride for the love of it and we accept the inherent risk. Be aware and predicting what could happen at any moment as you said is for sure a great way to ride. I think of it like meditation, always focus, but if you get distracted just keep returning your focus and don’t dwell on the fact that you got distracted.
I agree 100%. I crashed and I was not wearing a jacket and I was wearing tennis shoes. The helmet saved my head, I had hard knee and shin armour saved my legs, gloves saved my hands. I had 3d degree road rash on both arms from my wrist to my shoulders. a fractured left ankle and 3 broken ribs. Had I been wearing riding boots and a protective jacket my injuries would have been much less. Since then It's ATGATT for me always.
I wear a textile jacket with Kevlar armour in the elbows and on the shoulders, back protection is improved with a Camelbak pack, merino wool base layer all day, jeans are full Kevlar lined and triple stitched on all seams, I'm super comfy for long rides. For short rides in fair or foul weather (
Born and raised in a state on the East Coast of the US I grew up always wearing a Helmet and when I moved out West where there were no helmet laws i tried it a few times and felt so naked and did not like having sand and rocks let alone bugs hitting my face and eyes tearing up I continued wearing a full face helmet.. for long distance and highway speeds it just made sense.... I wear one always but agree it will be up to you to drive defensively and good skillsets and awareness is most important... God bless all us riders....
Well said Stuart. That was a very fair appraisal of the facts. Your comments on rider behaviour were spot-on. I was working as a DSA motorcycle driving examiner in 1996 and we were equipped with Frank Thomas leather suits, without armour, and considered ourselves very well equipped. Since then riders have become mis-guided as you said. Safe riding is the answer, and not this constant need to chase progress ala IAM and RoSpa……
Sliding down the road on my knee, I was glad to have armour. Jeans went through but the armour took the impact and I walked away. Protection is the last 1% and I would always be glad to be less injured, even if it is just a little bit
I agree with your assessment. I also believe that we should stop using the term “armour” for what is essentially padding. If you call it what it is it begins to diminish its effectiveness. Oddly many comments refer to sliding not impact. the padding was designed for impact not sliding, you need something between the padding and what ever surface you plan to slide on to protect the padding. It’s padding not “armour”.
I look at this way and a wearer of both AA and AAA kit every time I ride. Wearing my gear will reduce the amount of road rash god forbid that me and the tarmac have a conversation over wearing a t-shirt and my 501's. As you say hitting a solid object at most speeds will not protect me from my wife cashing in the life insurance and popping off to sunny climes 🙂 Safe distance. Slower speed especially in rain and remembering that they are all out to kill me is key as you say.
I wear the gear and it isn't knock off stuff. It doesnt make me feel invincible and it doesnt make me ride like a pillock. When I started, knee and shoulder and elbow protection was extra leather with a bit of padding. I prefer the modern stuff. Back protectors dont bother me except for sweat in the summer and Ive always worn gloves, boots and a full face as well. It wasnt the EU making me wear this. It was my own choice. I can always take them out of their pockets or just ride in docs, 501s and an old leather but I dont want to.
Thanks Stuart, as usual, a good video. A healthy dose of relevant factual information to which is added a big dollop of common sense and a liberal helping of experience for good measure, all stirred into the mixture to give us a well reasoned argument. The recipe for pleasurable motorcycling
Balanced, intelligent, and in my opinion, precisely what I consider to true. Most importantly, if every road user demonstrated even a modicum of pro-activity, the roads would be a safer place. Sadly, reactivity (or no action at all... "it was an unavoidable accident"... ) is the sad norm. Thank you Stuart. You and your content are appreciated.
Well said Stuart! I wear enough so I’m not going to need a skin graft anytime soon if I slide off. And anyone who thinks their superior skills are going to save them, try using those superior skills on superior diesel.
Well said Stuart, two things that need to be remembered experience and the right hand control, I wear armour in my clothing but I am well aware it’s only for a bit more protection, and I know the key word bit more, experience is key, and like you after my 53 years of it, there is always the one time, eyes in the back of your head need to be remembered, thanks again Stuart love your presentations
I think the answer to why it isn't compulsory is a simple one and that is TAX, if you designate it as compulsory PPE you can not charge tax, you will notice on any invoice for a helmet you are not charged VAT. The government stands to loose too much money but never weigh this against injury's being treated in hospitals etc. As far as how the protection works the armour itself is only made to absorb impact, so after initial impact on shoulders, knees and elbows takes place the armour loses effectiveness and should be replaced the same as you would a helmet. The garments themselves come in A-Rated, Double A-Rated and Triple A-Rated this reflects mainly abrasion resistance or how long before the garment starts to pull apart leaving access to the skin below. So if you're looking for the best available you need a triple A-Rated garment with Level 2 armour, believe it or not some of the major brands market there wears as having level 2 armour but neglect to clearly say on the same item that the garment itself is on single A-Rated which kind of defeats the object when your looking for protection, it's a minefield to the unimitated. Still as you've stated even the best out there isn't going to have a massive effect on a head on collision at anything above 30MPH or if you impact a lamppost etc at any speed your body unfortunately will distort in many, many un-natural ways breaking everything until it comes to a complete stop, BLEAK I know but know the risk, know the dangers and anticipate everything is your best defence. However If you do find yourself sliding down a road with no furniture etc in the way wearing good gear is very likely going to help minimalize injury's and/or death so personally would always recommend using it.
I remember a time back in the 1980s when it was so hot in the south of France, I rode in a denim jacket and trainers as my boots and leather jacket were so uncomfortable in the heat, they were distracting my attention from riding. I could concentrate and felt much safer by being comfortable, therefore less likely to have an accident.
I agree with Stuart here. I had a crash few years ago. Was doing about 50mph when I grabbed front brake too hard. Ended up sliding on road face down. My helmet was badly scratched in visor and chin area. Good thing that I was wearing a full face helmet. Had leather gloves without any armor. Broke thumb where it joins palm: those gloves with padding in that area might be a good idea. Broke pinky and little finger in other hand. Those gloves with joined pinky & little finger might be a good idea. Wore a leather jacket. Only minor rash in the jacket, I still use it. Wore heavy duty leather boots - not motorcycle specific ones. Those could have been fixed but it was cheaper to replace. Had kevlar lined jeans. Cotton was totally torn: normal jeans are no good. Kevlar held but I still had road rash in knees. I also apparently had fracture in one knee but that healed better than the fingers which were treated. Go figure. So definitely any kind of padding in knee area is a good thing. It also seems that the trousers contacted ground only on knee area. That is about what you might expect from gear. Of course that is only one incident. I was basically lucky that there was no oncoming traffic or telephone poles or similar, outcome would have been worse. I walked away from the accident, yet spent 2 months recovering. Sold remains of the bike for parts. The crash, of course, was totally my own doing. I was going too fast given the line of sight, condition of the road and my skills. So strongly agreeing with the comment about the gray matter.
Yes, the stickyness of the palm side of the protective glove might have been the cause I had my collarbone distal end loose in the crash (yes, I know the main cause was the crash). Maybe a small area that hits the tarmac in the case of a crash could be of some help. Just a product idea there, I do not comment on brain use or grey matter because they are unknown for me. And I don't have a habit of dismissing the stupid ones like me...😄
Blunt force trauma to the chest kills most often, so a chest protector could help, Kevlar lined pants will help with the road rash , and of course a full face shield helmet and some decent gloves and sturdy boots.
Even if the manufacturers could guarantee that armour and gear would save you, they would never advertise that as that would leave them liable in the 0.1% chance it didn’t. So I never ride without head to toe motorbike clothing, especially after my accident 2 years ago, the paramedics and doctors in the ER all repeatedly told me it was lucky I had full riding gear, otherwise my broken scapula and ribs could have included my spine.
I think this is a reasonable argument. For myself as a new rider I aim to always wear armour, and to do so I have two sets, the heavy armour with insulated clothing, and lighter more everyday armoured clothes that are easy to put on for shorter journeys. That is exactly to avoid the thought of not being bothered to put it on. And all that is with the understanding that armour can change a minor fall into nothing, and a medium fall into a minor one. Slide protection, and impact protection for the fall to the ground. Not impact protection from an oncoming lorry. Having fallen a fair bit from bicycles (usually doing something I shouldn't have been doing) has taught me a fair bit about low speed slides (mostly up to 40km/h, and mostly around 20-25km/h), and the impact from falling from that height. I've worn gloves when riding bicycles for the last few decades, and can attest to the effect of even the light gloves used for mountain biking. Sliding on asphalt is no big deal, and the impacts change from giving weird aches for a day or two, to just continuing my ride. At higher speeds I would really like some protection on my knees and elbows, road rash sucks! Hip and shoulder armour seems like a fair idea as well. And non-crushing shoes, just to hold against the heavy motorcycle if it ends up on top of my foot. Understanding what armour is and isn't is important, and understanding how that combines with riding style and skill is critical. Defining your own minimum level is, in my opinion, up to the individual. I understand that I am at a higher risk for various accidents, many at slow speeds, due to my lack of experience, so I factor that in.
Stewart - your detractors will never have had to deal with a fatal and observe the PM afterwards. Advanced standards and roadcraft will be lost on them. Always expect the unexpected and ride accordingly. Great video as usual.
Well done Stuart, this is exactly what I have been saying. Someone once said if you remove airbags and seatbelts from cars and replaced them with a spike emerging from the centre of the steering wheel cars would be driven with a lot more respect! Not possible any more but I admit to having hired and ridden scooters in Greece without even a helmet, just like the locals! The result was just to take a little more care and take notice of what's around you. As you say nobody needs to comment if they disagree, everyone has an opinion.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this part of motorcycle riding. It makes sense that no amount of armor makes up for irresponsible, reckless riding habits.
Lower leg injuries are the next most prevalent usually due to low speed drops and being caught under the bike even stationary. Armour in other areas is useful in a slide, because they spread the load on contact with the ground over a wider area, rather than wearing through the material immediately where the joint impacts the ground. Once you’ve worn through that outer clothing then you’re going to be grinding through flesh and bone. Knees, hips, shoulders and elbows are where research shows that contact is most likely. Minor discomfort might cost you a lot and modern armour is so light and flexible it seems silly not to incorporate it.
Totally agree with you! Im always in protective stuff. It gives me peace of mind. Like the car seatbelt, I don't feel right without it. I am, however, well aware of it's limitations and try to ride safely ans not make too many stupid mistakes!!
Thankyou Stuart for putting something that I knew subconsciously into a context that makes sense to me , common sense along with rider skills and ability’s are far more important than your Jacket , Helmet and gloves .
Thankfully there is still someone out there with common sense. I really appreciate your pragmatic view of life in the real world we live in. Thanks! I just have to say before I go, Scottish women are gorgeous!
Very thought provoking and intelligent video. I have heard a number of experienced motorcyclists say that they feel invincible in the leather riding suits. That is not a great state of affairs. When I was learning to ride, I was practising some low speed manoeuvres and stalled the bike and it spat me off with surprising velocity. I went head over heels, much to amusement of some watching teenagers. I am convinced that I would have injured my elbow had I not been wearing a jacket with PPE. I am also paranoid about the slide. So I will always wear it. I hope that the chances of a slow speed fall are slim now but perhaps that is where ppe adds most value. But fully appreciate that for some people style and comfort trumps protection from minor injury. It should be a matter of personal choice.
Many years ago a friend's girl friend who was a nurse told us lads how they deal with roadrash, four big orderlies and a pretty little nurse with a scrubbing brush, we all cringed, even today 45 plus years later the thought gives a chill. All I would say about clothing is No bare skin, as others have said armour spreads the impact and helps with abration, and gloves being the most important, the first thing you do when you fall off is put your hands out, hands have thin skin and a mass of delicate and fragile bones, they need and deserve as much protection as you can give them, try opening a ring pull can of soup one handed as an exercise!!.
Just making pour over coffee was very difficult after breaking my non-dominant thumb! Cold (2 degrees C) new, tires mean a low speed low side. No damage except the thumb but it still hurts 10 weeks later, especially after I ride to and from work.
I think AAA abrasion rated leathers designed for high speed track use are going to be just fine at protecting your skin riding on the road at legal speeds. Even without gear though sliding won't kill you, impacts will. Your helmet might even survive a nasty impact but it can't stop your brain from sloshing around in your skull, smashing into the bone and causing a traumatic brain injury. Armour is still great to have and air bags are a game changer, but it should all be thought of as being a last resort to keeping you alive. I agree the best defence is to ride safe and avoid crashing in the first place.
Over the last few years, having fallen for the Kevlar/CE propaganda, I bought cheap clothing that claimed to include such protection - only to find that it is some sort of plastic or foam moulding that would offer zero protection. So it's back to the way it was 50/60 years ago - ride safe.
I agree with you, Uncle Stu. Anytime you throw a leg over the saddle, you accept the possibility of being badly hurt, as a result of your actions. But.... you minimize that possibility by being vigilant with your riding habits. The older you get, the more aware you become of dynamically developing traffic situations. Intuitively, you adjust your speed to provide sufficient time to react and therein, provide a margin of safety. All the body armor in the world can't save you, if you over-ride caution and common sense. Years ago, I remember hearing .. "There are bold riders and there are old riders, but there are no old, bold riders"...
Unfortunately, CE ratings, particularly for abrasion resistance can sometimes be misleading. Looking at the MotoCap website from Australia that does it's own independent testing (not dissimilar to SHARP in the UK), the test results do not always correlate with what the items abrasion rating suggests. 11:25 you refer to armour as A, AA & AAA rated, is AAA actually a thing for armour? afaik the the A, AA & AAA ratings are about abrasion resistance, with armour ratings being expressed as either CE1 or CE2, along with a size/coverage indication rating. Still an interesting video, thanks.
Totally agree with the content of this video. Been riding motorcycles since 1967 and it is being aware of other road users and the road conditions that are the best protection one can have. Always wore leather until quite recently because I value slide/abrasion protection more important than body armour. Like yourself I also worked for a government agency that investigate HGV & PSV road collisions for 22 years. Having been called out to a few lorry to motorcycle collisions I can confirm that no amount of armour will protect a rider that ends up under a lorry or hitting one head on. Wish that I could un-see some of the scenes of carnage that I have witnessed. Ride safe EVERYBODY.
Excellent video Stuart. In Europe there is a "bigger push" towards making riders wear CE approved riding apparel. Exactly which piece of clothing depends on the country. As you rightly state, France and Spain require CE approved gloves - *_and the Police will check_* DAMHIK. So don't tear out or lose the CE tab in *each of the gloves,* they check both gloves. Note: _the stated reason_ for mandating CE approved gloves on motorcycles in France is to reduce hand injuries, especially injuries to the palm. France is pushing for CE approved amour to be worn in jackets and trousers, though this is being resisted by the FFMC (Fédération française des motards en colère). I believe some of the UK government's, and other EU governments', thinking on this topic is to try to reduce the severity of the injuries, thereby reducing the cost to the emergency services and NHS. Having earnt my living from riding motorcycles in the 1980s, I know, from first-hand experience, that wearing good gear, even without amour (it wasn't available back then), can reduce the severity of injuries - DAMHIK (again 😁). But, there are other factors involved in whether you are injured or not and to the severity. One factor being pure dumb luck! You are correct to suggest that wearing certain types of clothing affects your riding style. I have noticed that when I wear a Hi Viz jacket, I tend to expect other road users to see me more easily (even when they are playing on their phone 🙄), which is usually not the case! Again, as you very rightly say, always be prepared to take evasive action. *PPPPPP* - Prior Preparation Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance. Having reached a _Certain Age,_ my body reminds me of this every morning when I wake up 😁, I have decided to be ATGATT. This is my choice and my choice alone. *_What you do, provided it doesn't affect me, is your choice and has totally and absolutely nothing to do with me!_*
This is always an expansive topic, from those who ride in flip flops, shorts, and a t-shirt, to those like me who wear an airbag jacket, base layer armor and specific Daytona motorcycle boots, gloves, and a helmet. True, there is no guarantee that ANY armor will protect you from injury or death, for me I guess they drilled in the importance of safe riding gear in the beginning riding courses and it has never left me. I also don’t like bugs hitting me in the face and or possibly taking away my vision if a bug strikes me in the eye. To sum it all up, if an accident happens, I want to give the medical staff every chance to care for me and get me back to a normal life. Make the choice that is right for you!
In the 90s I rode in a t-shirt and shorts. In more recent years I got pulled into all the gear all the time way of thinking but now I'm definitely more about weighing up the risk and knowing I will take responsibility for my own actions. Don't think I will ever ride in shorts again but regularly ride to work in short sleeved shirt.
Thanks for the video Stuart. I might be being a bit of an anorak here but I just wanted to clarify the CE ratings you talked about. I’m not an expert but I believe that there are separate CE ratings for clothing and armour (and other gear). EN17902 for clothing giving the A ratings for the clothing that should include armour, but that armour has a separate rating EN1621 which is then split into level 1 or 2 for transmission of force. Level 2 being the higher rating. Worth knowing when looking at different protective gear. Gloves have a separate one too, again level 1 or 2. I’ll shut up now! Cheers
@pete36524 : Your understanding is correct. There are the various standards (EN 1621-1, EN 1621-2, EN 1621-3, EN 1621-4, EN 13594, EN 13595, EN 13634 and EN 17092 - plus EN 14021 for stone shields), and within these there are performance levels/classifications; e.g., EN 13594:2015 Levels1, 1KP and 2KP for gloves and EN 1621-1 Level 1 and Level 2 for impact protectors (for which there are also Type A and Type B, definining smallest and largest sizes, and T+ and T-, defining optional testing after conditioning at 5)C and -10C, respectively). All of this it seems you may already know, but if others reading this exchange were not clear on the differences, they can hopefully find a source of clear and accurate information to check out the details. The artiocles of John Milbank, at BikeSocial, are what I recommend.
As always you are right. If you are destined to die on the road, then so be it. You shouldn’t spoil the impression of your horse with all this armor. We are no longer young, but youth is in our blood. As usual, greetings from Russia. ✌️
👍Armour and abrasion protection are both fantastic……. until your body hits something solid at the roadside. So you’re absolutely correct about the track benefits of protective gear however having once slid a long way down a road in normal jeans I would always now wear decent gear.
You put that really well. Too many bedwetters have this strange belief that anything that goes well is down to them but everything bad must have been caused by someone else. The reality is all of us are responsible for our own actions. The clever ones amongst us realise that other people’s bad and stupid decisions and actions may also affect them, so they take act accordingly eg. letting the plonker behind overtake ahead have a crash all by themselves. Carry on with your good work showing us motorcycling, preparations, techniques, clothing, pens, knives etc.
There is one aspect not mentioned: the cost to society from personal decisions. I wear riding gear, even though where I live it is legal to ride even without a helmet, and many do, in part because I don’t want my expensive ER visit to be shouldered by rising taxes or insurance premiums on my fellow citizens. Even road rash, while not usually dangerous, is painful enough to bring people in to see me. I’m an emergency doctor, as well as a rider. I agree with the idea that sensible decisions trump gear.
Even helmets in recent studies in USA where we have states with and without helmet laws found they rarely make the difference between life and death the difference is the kind of life you have after your accident.
Thank you! I've thought similar notions many times. If I could modify safety courses I would play 12:30 to 14:30 of this at the beginning, and again the entirety of the video after the riders have taken their tests and waiting to grab their cards and hit the road.
Brand new bike off the trailer at home, cold day, first right turn, 8 MPH lowside, no damage to my actual CE gear and only a broken thumb from the handlebars kicking back. My Riding jeans didn't even have a scuff. I am an ATGATT guy but realize it may or may not help enough, even with an airbag vest on top of riding jackets as well as helmet, gloves and riding jeans.. The bike slid farther than I did and I was just embarrassed and got back on and rode until the swelling and pain in my thumb drove my home to an icepack.
I wear decent clothing with body-armour but I still believe that there’s no substitute for experience and defensive riding, 12 years as a motorcycle courier taught me that anything can happen no matter how good you think you are.
As an Ex DR, I totally agree, you need a very alert brain, because anything can, and quite often does happen.
Absolutely.. an IQ of at least 80 and defensive riding with your brain on a swivel is your best protection.
Driving Defensively: 1 v.s. Driving recklessly: 10
@@millwall007a solid dose of paranoia to spice it all. Reading NTSB incident reports also helps avoiding getting entangled in a chain of adverse action/reaction/benign neglect that generally ends up in disaster.
I was about to say the same thing. I've been riding for 22 years, been a courrier for 4. And even with a good defensive driving skill, you will fall. You can't always account for some of the morons with a "driving license"...
I would feel naked without my protective gear (helmet, jacket, gloves and boots), even in summer. Always protected me well every single time I got thrown on the ground. Never had a high speed collision, I value my life too much to drive like a madman when riding.
An adapted speed will always give your defensive skills the time to kick in and save the day!
Whilst in the military and as a motorcyclist, I was required to attend a four day safe riding course. One of the speakers was a doctor from the base hospital. He explained that the human body only has so many resources to call upon when dealing with traumatic injury. One injury, say.. a broken arm, isn't so bad. Two injuries is more difficult. Three or four, especially if they are to vital organs, and survivability is greatly reduced. We're talking head, kidney, skin (yes, road rash counts). His message was to wear the PPE to mitigate damage so that the body has the resources it needs to survive the injuries that you HAVE suffered.
He also spoke of the effect of speed on the severity of injury. The difference of a few kph/mph may be the difference between mild concussion and a brain so swollen that you die. Literally life or death.
The course was very good, btw. I still use the knowledge that I acquired, and that was almost 40 years ago. Maybe I'm still here because of it.
Yes, the skin is the largest human organ... I tried how it goes, crashed with my motorcycle and woke up lying in the middle of the road. Thought first nothing happened but had been rolling a few times, helmet and my leather jacket had scratches all around. Broke a few ribs, collarbone, a compression fracture in the spine etc. If I had been 30 years younger there might have been minimal injuries but age is a factor too... Now, I think I better wear ATGATT and still not crash, not at least from high speeds...😁
This is a very good point, well made! These garments work on the same principles as crumple zones on a car in that they reduce severity or absorb impact or abrasion. Even if something is only rated for 20mph that still mitigates your injury if you crash/slide. Someone I know came off their bike and went through a barbed-wire fence. They were seriously injured, but the tough fabric of the jacket she was wearing reduced the injuries - at least slightly.
You're right about what the armour can't protect you against. It can do a lot in a single accident, falling in a curve and sliding on the ground. I tested that last summer, and the clothes got scratches but I didn't. I tested the same on a bicycle 20 years ago, and had to visit the nurse every day for 3 weeks to care for the wounds... in both cases, there were sand, gravel and leafs on the road, but the consequences for me were hugely different... I only had motorcycle jeans and a lighter jacket, plus gloves, of course. The latter are probably the most important. It worked as good as expected
Spot on my friend 👍
You risk amputation just from the potential infection that the sand gravel and dirt on the tarmac can cause on and below the skin if your garment fails. A friend of mine knows this personally.
@@inoz92 yes, I devastated a whole summer due to a bicycle accident without any protectors.... It took a week to clear the wound from sand and dirt and over a month to heal it. Basically the whole summer in bandages.
In line with the defensive riding philosophy, I'm reminded of an old flying adage. Adapted for motorcycling - The superior rider uses their superior skills and expertise to avoid those situations that would need their superior skills and expertise.
@@Ijusthopeitsquickthe average rider by avoiding situations that require superior skills becomes a superior rider... therefore the average rider can also be a superior rider... I think 🤔
"there's old pilots and there's bold pilots but there's no old bold pilots"
@@Ijusthopeitsquick Watch crash and close call videos on RUclips, not just bike ones either, car, bus, lorry are all worth it. You can learn a lot from the mistakes of others.
@@burtvhulberthyhbn7583 I was a very bold pilot from young and I'm now old (and still bold). Generalizations are for dummies.
In order to acquire superior skills you have to push yourself. The more safe and controlled the environment the better but you can be riding defensively for your riding skills and that's very different than riding defensively for the average rider. In other words, there's relativity involved.
PPE mitigates the damage done by slides....and slides are a pretty common result of coming off a bike. Good enough reason for me to invest in it !
I recently slipped on a wet floor in Lidl and landed hard on my back and elbow. No, I wasn’t riding a bike at the time, but I was wearing my armoured jacket. The security guards were amazed at how quickly I, as a grey haired old duffer, bounced back to my feet.
I like wearing my pads too… even when not riding.
Me as well. I got a concussion a few winters back icey sidewalks. But no issues with my elbow or back.
Reactions and instincts, still work regardless of your age . 😊
I literally got in to this hobby in large part because I love PPE 😂
Stuff's useful!
Bit of a trend, I tripped over a kerb at the said emporium, landed on my knee and split my meniscus in several places. I’ve been told the knee is screwed and eventually will need a metal version. My point is, during 30+ years of riding a motorcycle with no armour, I’ve had a couple of accidents, whereby I departed company from my ride, but no broken bones or knackered knees. I hate with a passion nanny states. They can never regulate against one’s fate, it’s all about £s and control.
I wear my gear all the time. I have various jackets for all seasons. Luckily it doesn’t get that cold in Sydney Australia.
I still ride as if I’m naked. Armour should never change a rider’s attitude with riding.
My back protector helps me keep my back straight. It helps me with my posture.
I use the time with putting my bike gear as something to set my mind into a riding mode, not a “I’m protected” mode.
So I use my bike gear for other purposes than just ‘ultimate protection’. I think they look great. It might add a few more minor percentages with skin protection but the best protection is defensive riding.
I recently had a lowside on the exit ramp of a motorway and slid down the asphalt. Picked up the bike, brushed of the dust and rode a further 250 kms that day. I was wearing full gear, including Helite airbag, and all the protective panels and my helmet had scratches, Most scratches on knee and hip and on the back of the helite turtle. So i'm in favor of full gear, as supplemnet to the best protection a motorcycle rider has, the mass between his ears.
Maybe If you would not had been wearing your gear, you would have been riding more carefully, with a little less speed, because you would have felt more vulnareable, you would not had your low sider, like most of the riders passing that exit ramp before you did not have a low sider.
I agree with your assessment of armored gear. I wear it in the hopes that should the motorcycle and I part ways and I’m sliding on the pavement, the armor will help prevent some degree of road rash and mitigate some impact. Not once, did I ever expect any armored gear to save my life in the event of a collision, which is far different from a slide. I do use a Helite Turtle Air Vest to help protect vital organs and spine. It is hot and heavy, but it does give me some peace of mind.
Like you, I spent a few decades with the police and in investigating many motorcycle crashes, I had found that alcohol and mostly, ridiculously poor riding skills led to equally poor outcomes when things went awry.
I have to compliment you on your channel. It certainly has become one of my favorites.
Ride safe, Stuart.
Morning Stuart,
Yes, I totally agree that armour at best will cut down on road rash it is defentley a risk based decision on the individual. However, even in the summer, I always wear a jacket, jeans, boots, and gloves they are not a force field, and yes, I have burnt my backside even at coming off at 15 mph, what cringes me is seeing riders in the summer out on bikes in shorts, T shirt, no gloves, it is their choice, but sorry that is not going to end well.
OK, Stuart, My first motorcycle riding wear in 1977 was an army surplus trench coat, a pair of Wrangler jeans, a pair of fireman's boots, a pair of black leather gauntlets with orange reflective triangles on the top for doing hand signals and a Stadium open face helmet and aviator goggles.
It was 1979 before I bought my first proper motorcycle jacket, a British made Wolf Leathers jacket with padded shoulders, sleeves and kidney region, it cost me £200 which was a lot of money in those days considering I only earned £65 a week. I also bought a Paddy Hopkirk full face helmet from Halfords, proper motorcycle boots and shorter gloves. Happy days.
Paddy Hopkirk 😂, full face (with very limited peripheral vision), rallyecar helmet!
Mate, you were a determined fellow.
One of the things that is worth looking at is abrasion resistance clothing. If you end up sliding down the tarmac and gravel road on your backside the likely hood of keeping your skin attached is worth paying extra for.
Blimey Stuart, this subject brings back some difficult memories for me. In 1979 I was involved in a head-on collision with a car being driven on the wrong side of the road. As this happened on a sharp left hand bend, I only had a split second to try and serve out of the way. All this did was expose the right side of my body and my leg took the full force of the impact. I'm now 44 years into my alternative existence as an above-knee amputee. However, about six months before this accident I invested in the best crash helmet on the market - a Bell Star II. My Bell helmet saved my life - the back of the glass fibre shell was almost wiped out, but it did the job! As you recommend, buy the best rider equipment you can afford as your life may depend upon it.
I came off my bike at 30mph wearing my old Hein Gerricke jacket with no armour, the jacket was hardly scratched, but my elbows and shoulders were badly grazed just by the impact on the road, same with my legs, my kevlar jeans stopped me touching tarmac but my knees were grazed just from the impact. I think that day was the only time I hadn't worn armour in 8 years and it hurt. Agreed armour won't save you in impact with vehicles or road signs, but it might save you a few weeks discomfort after a tumble.
we can all thank Barry Sheen for the invention of the back protection
I believe it was Barry who said it was too dangerous to ride on the open road! How did he help with back protection?
@@Stu-bw2fw He put a rolled up towel in the back of his leathers. He claimed he invented the back protector
Excellent guidance… Ride as if you are INVISIBLE. And, “bigglesace” is correct: Their are old pilots, and bold pilots. But, there are no old, bold pilots!🏍
😢real talk
I agree wholeheartedly. The mantra of "ride like you're invisible" should be drummed into every learner motorcyclist. Treat every other vehicle out there as if they're out to kill you. For the 1st 5 yrs of my motorcycling (age 17-22, I'm 66 now), I fell off a lot, because I overstepped my abilities to keep the bike upright (I had an RD 400 at the time). Then I had a child. Priorities changed. I started riding defensively. Haven't fallen off in over 40 years. Doesn't mean I'm invincible, just a change in attitude. Didn't bother me a bit riding my Harley in shorts, singlet, thongs (flip-flops), and no gloves if I was riding around town in summer. My choice, and my risk assessment. Make it a highway ride, and I put on decent gear. Just don't tell me to ride safe, and don't bother to copy and paste those stupid Facebook memes asking car drivers to watch out for motorcyclists.
@@DOC19581 I hear you… I stopped riding for 22 years because I became a dad. The guys are gone now. So, I’m back to that calculated risk….
One of the most important things is the abrasive resistance of the materials the garment is made of. As you say the armour is a bit of a bonus. Impact is different to sliding down the road, interesting thoughts Stuart.
...well said sir! I've been motorcycling for 20+ years now and the best advice I've ever had has been from ex-motorcycle coppers. They had been there, seen it and experienced it.
Michael Neeves from MCN put it best: "Treat every other driver like they're trying to kill you"
I have always ridden, (and driven) using that mantra and have survived to the age of 82 in two weeks.
I would get into trouble for that
Always best to be prepared for everything from which ever way it comes, but that was 100years and a life time ago.
@@davidgalt8107have a happy birthday 🎈
I had just started out riding, and didn't have any proper gear, just helmet and gloves. Wouldn't have been going more than 20km/h when I low sided after hitting a patch of sand on a tight bend. The front wheel tucked in and the bike came down on top of my leg. After I hit the pavement, momentum caused me to slide for about two meters. Yep, just two meters, that's how slow I was going... And that little two meter slide was all it took to rip straight through my regular jeans, and take all of the skin off of my kneecap. I had further scrapes on my arms and side, but they weren't as bad as my knee, which took weeks to heal, and still has a visible scar more than a year later.
As Stuart says, armour is not designed to save you from a high speed impact with a solid object - nothing can save you from that... It's designed to protect you from injury when sliding on completely unforgiving paved surfaces, at moderate and low speeds. As my experience shows, even a very low speed slide can rip through regular clothing, and then all you have left is your skin.
Pretty much the very point I was making in my last video! Body armour might, I repeat, might mitigate abrasion. Thanks for making this video, now my grandkids will understand why I don’t wear it much.
Well said, Sir. Wise words indeed. As a motorcyclist of 49 years, back in the 70s/80s, we had a saying I think coined by MAG; "Risk Compensation Factor." The safer you feel, the more risk you take. Originally (I believe) to explain why a great deal of one bike, one car incidents involved Volvo cars. As an ex motorcycle instructor, we taught that defensive riding was a must and to treat all other road users as idiots. Safe riding, Stu.
Great observations, Stuart 👍
As riders we are, by nature, not of the same mindset as beaurocrats (safetycrats?). They have through self interest, earned our distrust.
Swinging a leg over a two wheeled, engine powered machine and loving it, is the indication that riders are not cut from the same cloth -kevlar or otherwise- as the other part of the population who cannot accept the risk involved in motorcycling.
We are riding our motorcycles on a rock flying around the Sun, for a limited time only; let's enjoy the ride and the time we have to spend here.
This year, 2024, marks 55 seasons of me not ending up dead on a motorcycle, and I hope to continue this streak, despite all the threats to our hobby from government agencies, cameras, Karens, and everyone else who do not understand the thrill and pleasure of riding.
Keep the sensible & accurate commentary coming; it's great to watch your videos and hear what you have to say.
Absolutely spot on!
Pretty much on point. Armor may lessen damage in an impact, but what I am out to do is protect my spine. I love touring on my motorcycle, but I don’t want to be a paraplegic, so I ride with my Klim airbag vest. No prevention if the crash is bad enough, but it’s the best option out there.
Another very clear sorting of the facts.
People see those slow motion shots of bike racers sliding and tumbling around and then walking away. And think it will happen to them too when the need arises. No one ever imagines encountering fencing, curbing, trash bins, parked vehicles and so on while they are "sliding to happiness”.
And thinking yourself lucky you’re preventing road rash while "t-boning” the oblivious driver on her phone won’t cross your mind.
IMHO, I agree, the benefit to the armor is to mitigate road rash and possibly protect things like elbows, hips and knees from direct hits.
You're gonna be sore, you're gonna be bruised, it isn't a full body airbag or whatever, but it is protective to an extent. Just my two cents worth. 🤷 It's sort of the difference between a full face helmet and anything else, a half helmet may protect your brain, but what about your face? And yes, definitely, there are places where name brand and paying the cost still matters. I also agree with using your brain, my dad always told me to look ahead and try to have an "out" just in case, you know what you're going to do, it's that other idiot you've got to watch out for.
Another great vid as usual, thanks! 😎👍
Yes, how come the racers nowadays use fell face helmets and one-piece leather suits... 😁
@@iivaridark6850head protection makes sense, after that, it’s abrasion resistance and very limited impact resistance. Racers often wear airbag suits too, to protect vs high side accidents.
The latter is of no use to me or any sensible rider on the road because you can only high side under certain circumstances. If they occur on the road, you’re already massively out of limits for road riding.
I’m of Stuart’s mindset, attitudes and practices. Riding since 1977. The one injury accident I had was my fault, and I badly broke my wrist. No equipment could have prevented the injury, given the situation I placed myself in.
I’ve had two non injury accidents, in both my non armoured jacket and trousers helped me avoid injury worthy of note. Both were slippery road offs involving no other vehicle and only a brief slide down the road. If I’d hit a kerb or road furniture, I’d have died in both cases.
I ride for pleasure only in the dry & I try to be away from other road users unless I’m riding with mates.
Ayup Stu! The old adage “If you’ve got a ten bob head, buy a ten bob crash helmet” is so true. And all armour is is a shock absorber. It’s not going to stop serious injury, it’s just going to absorb the initial hit. Anyway, I’ve got to take the Irish Wolfhound whippet out for a walk.
Well said sir, well said. I've had this mindset for a while, friend of mine was killed back in 2009 when some unobservant old dear pulled out in front of him from a petrol station. It was pretty much the situation you described towards the end of the video. He had all the gear on, armoured jacket, Kevlar jeans, boots - didn't matter. After that as I looked at it in detail, I came to realise the same thing as you, it may mitigate the risks slightly, but in the end if you're in a bad enough off which doesn't take much on a bike - if you're done, you're done.
Stuart; former EOD Tech/Bomb Squad. We never wore any armor. We knew it would not protect us and it only hindered us and made the operation more dangerous.
Thanks stuart. Like you said, it should be up to us what to say, think, do and wear. All the rules they make up is Just to make us slaves of the system. Only when I take a ride on my motorbice i feel free, not watched and Just be by myself. Please let me be and stop telling me what i should do dear elites of this world.
Keep on with your video's mr. Stuart, i am loving it, drive save everybody and stay free.
Berry from Holland
i've been riding since i was 14 years old, and now i'm well over 50. Since I upgraded my ride from a Suzuki GSX-400T to my 2022 Triumph Trident 660, I realized that I needed some protective gear. I have a top-notch Arai helmet (Japanese), and a full-protection jacket, with shoulder, front, back armor etc. I have never had an accident since I was 16 years old, so I cannot really say how much protection this gear offers, but certainly it feels a lot better than wearing nothing. Now, the Greek government has issued the following statistics: 90% of motorcyclists losing their life in an accident did not wear a helmet. Of the 10% that lost their lives wearing a helmet, 90% would have been saved if they wore a jacket with chest protection (thorax). I find that these statistics are enough to make wearing a protective gear VERY important, and in fact, even if this clothing saves only one life out of 1000 accidents, it's still worth wearing it. I find it offensive that you, an officer of the law as you say, advocate that wearing protective gear is meaningless, and is a trick by the bureaucrats of the EU. And one final remark: if protective clothing is meaningless, then why is EVERYone participating in any organized race (moto-gp etc.) wearing it? just to advertize the EU clothes? I don't think so...
Absolutely spot on with all your point Stu. I remember when I 1st started riding in the early 1980's there was none of this kind of armor. All we really had was a leather jacket a pair of jeans and some kind of stout boots like ex-army boots. I was taught to ride defensively and like you said the 1st line of defense is your brain. Personally speaking I feel way to restricted wearing the new kind of gear and in turn that hinders comfort, and so is unsafe for me. Some will not like what I have to say but in my mind if your going to wear airbags and can not feel the freedom, then just get a car you will be safer. Each to there own though. Thanks for post!!!
I spent 30 years teaching engineering, woodwork, and construction students that PPE will only reduce the severity of injury when things go wrong not stop all injury and the most important PPE is the grey matter between your ears. That holds true for motorbikes as well. Here in Australia there is no mandatory CE level that motorbike clothing sold here has to meet. We do have an organisation called Motocap that tests helmets, jackets, pants and gloves the rates them according to the type of protection they give, or don't give. Interestingly some cheap non CE compliant clothing often scores higher than the CE rated gear. Motocap does provide a useful resource when buying clothing etc.
Now then Stuart, I have the CE approved armour and light / heavyweight suits to use it in.
I wouldn't consider going for a ride without it! but thats my choice.
I agree with you and your thoughts on this subject entirely, this video I think was well balanced and thought provoking.
A good job well done.
I have all the gear I can afford and it's Dainese armour protected stuff. I believe it MAY provide some protection in certain situations above not wearing it, but I'm not daft. I know coming off at the speeds I go sometimes is pretty much a one way ticket to Hell, so the only protection from that is to make sure I don't mess it up! AND try to make sure anyone else around me does not mess it up for me. That's what riding a bike is all about. We risk, and we love life because it is not guaranteed in ANY situation. I have a mate in the paramedics and he darkly jokes that leather suits are great because it provides them with a nice bag to keep all the bits in when they pick a motorcyclist off the road.
I had an unfortunate unplanned get off at 70 mph last July due to a sudden tire blowout.
I was glad I was wearing proper riding pants, jacket and helmet because I kept almost 100% of my skin.
That said it did nothing to stop the significant near fatal chest damage from hitting the handlebar wrong. It's all a matter of luck.
Someone asked if I was going to add a chest protector but I said no. The gear has to be comfortable and nice looking.
If I add a chest protector what's next? Neck brace, air bags, full racing suit? Nah, just keeping a decent covering to protect my skin and ride safe.
The rest is just luck.
PS: safety Nazi's mandating everyone's decisions regarding risk makes me sick.
People should be free to take the chances they deem appropriate as long as they aren't harming others.
Was your bike running on tubed or tubeless tyres, just out of interest?
@@user-sw2lv3zp6o Tube type tires, old fashioned spoked wheels.
I am considering going to tubeless to reduce the chance of a repeat blowout.
I have a Halvarsson chest protector designed for my Halvarsson jacket. Like all Halvarsson gear it’s very comfortable to wear.
If you lived on a planet with just you and only you to bear the consequences then crack on with that mentality. However, you don't, you have family, friends, roadside witnesses, the emergency services and the very strained health system that all have to take the fallout from your accident and if adding an extra bit of PPE reduces some of that, then it's totally worth it. Just think how much an airbag jacket or chest protector would have reduced your injuries that day, lessened or maybe even prevented a stay in hospital and therefore freed up space for someone else who might need it.
I work in the emergency services, you must be aware how strained things are... And because you don't live on a planet of just yourself, you owe a duty of care to those you inhabit this world with, to wear crash gear that will prevent a knock on effect to those around you who you do have a duty of care to.... No matter how much you think it may be aesthetically unappealing. I'd never suggest folk give up their pleasure of riding but for the sake of a bit of money to add that extra bit of protection then it's totally worth it. After all, you likely spend a lot more money on your bike, so why not spend more on your life.
I'd rather look like an idiot in the eyes of people rather than take up a hospital bed from some old chap who's just had a heart attack.
And the fact is; most PPE is comfortable or you get used to it. I wear a fully integrated gyroscopic airbag jacket, protects the whole torso and immobilises my neck. Inflation time is quicker than you can blink. I never ride without it.
You may feel like the choice is yours, but sadly the consequences are never limited to just you.
@@Bavenbushcraft Your comment is a typical example Of the modern shame based thought control, cancel culture, I referred to in the video. Rampant in the mismanaged, underperforming woke NHS !
Not sure if many people know this but soon after the EU introduced the CE Mark, China introduced the C E Mark meaning " China Export" so a C E Mark may not be what you think.
"Driving sensibly and responsibly..." I believe you are spot on. Our engaged minds and senses are our best "protection." When taking the basic rider course here in the US, we were taught SEE...Search for situations; Evaluate what if any evasive or preventative actions are required; Execute the necessary action (braking, swerving, slowing, etc.). You have to be constantly engaged with your surroundings by scanning, observing, and anticipating. I don't always wear protective gear (except for a helmet) but I always try to practice SEE. Avoiding an accident altogether is better than having to survive one.
Good morning Stu. Another good video. Very thought provoking. Also enjoyed the riding shots. Nice to see some blue skies. I loved the autumnal colours of the trees too. PPE is a personal thing. I always wear armour, even in hot weather. It makes me cringe when I see riders wearing shorts and tee shirts. It’s their choice though. If health and safety had there way our motorcycles would have four wheels and a protective bodywork surrounding the rider.
I wear all the gear all the time including airbag. I’m old and take longer to fix so feel like I’m increasing my odds of survival slightly. I’ve had a few unscheduled dismounts in my youth and it smarts a bit 😬
My choice and I respect anyone else’s choice.
Ride safe 👍🏻
Well said Stu, when serving in the military I was always told that bomb disposal suits were mainly to keep as much of a body together to make retrieval possible, so you are absolutely correct. Transfer your responsibility for your safety to a piece of plastic at your own risk. I wear a Knox armoured shirt fully aware of it’s capabilities. Please carry on with your sensible advice and leave these trolls to their caves. I for one get a lot from your weekly videos. Thank you Uncle Stu!
Good video Stuart. My choice is ‘all the gear all the time’ including the armour pads but I recognise that it won’t be infallible especially in a head on with a bus or a lamp post.
Hi Stu, the time when i was started motorcycle riding (long time ago), it was natural that we wearing protective motorcycle clothing, i was socialized that way, i feel naked if i not wearing it during the ride. I never asked a reason why we wearing the protective gear. If i see a motorcycle rider wearing tshirts, sport shoes, shorts, especialy on litre sportsbike..i dont see him as a motorcycle rider....i see him only as tourist in the motorcycle business. He is the other end of the spectrum, but there are layers in between, if you understend what i meen....👍
In my most serious accident, back in the early 90s, my Suzuki GS 550 chop was hit from behind by a car, as I was turning into a campsite. I slid down one side of the road, while the bike bounced down the other. I came to a halt about 40 feet away from the impact and stood up with just a cracked rib. I was wearing a late 80s Lewis leather i.e. not made in the UK and leather trousers. Both had padding, rather than armour. The jacket had no damage, other than a scratch on the metal Lewis tab on the left arm. No damage to the trousers.
This reminds me of a proverb that goes, an intelligent individual will search for a solution to a problem. A wise person will avoid that situation completely. Mr Fillingham you are indeed a wise man.
Couldn't agree more. I've been riding since 1966. I've hit the road or track several times at speeds over 80 mph and been very very lucky to walk away every time. The newer gear certainly makes a huge difference in how much skin you leave behind, but as you said, helmets have done more than all the other gear combined to actually save lives. I've never ridden without one and that is why I can write this now. That said, I don't heal anything like as fast as I used to, so I wear ATGATT, every time. My choice, but clearly not everyone's. Cheers.
Hi Stuart, in 1976 I had an accident on my bike going to work. I was doing thirty at the time when a car turned right directly in front of me. I sustained a number of injuries of which I suffer to this day. I'm one hundred percent in agreement in that what ever I would have been wearing I would have sustained the same injuries.
I don't uphold the wearing of shorts and tee shirts but sensible clothing to protect yourself from obvious injuries occurred from abrasive surfaces.
Wear what you like, as you say, the car or brick wall will create serious if not fatal injuries.
Thanks for the video, always interesting subjects
The only three pieces of gear I must wear on every ride is leather gloves, helmet and my airbag vest. I'll do without armored jackets, pants and boots unless I'm going on a long or fast ride. I usually ride slow. The airbag vest is a must for me now. I had a lowside crash where I slid on oily pavement and hit a curb with my chest. The airbag deployed before I even hit the ground, and it prevented me from breaking an untold number of ribs. That vest really saved me.
Many years ago, I was given this advice. Whilst my human rights allowed me to wear what I chose, I had a human responsibility to others to minimise potential injury in a spill.
Specifically, the costs to the NHS repairing any damage sustained help to increase our insurance premiums due to personal injury claims.
Just a thought?
I've never thought of clothing as anything more than road rash protection. Having suffered some pretty bad road rash on my back just from crashing a bicycle I definitely wear protective clothing on my motorcycle.
Spot on Stuart, well put. I was wearing all the right gear when hit on the side and dragged along a freeway guard rail by a van, and while it saved me from losing all my skin I still had broken bones etc. Definitely not a magic bubble. A lot of us ride for the love of it and we accept the inherent risk. Be aware and predicting what could happen at any moment as you said is for sure a great way to ride. I think of it like meditation, always focus, but if you get distracted just keep returning your focus and don’t dwell on the fact that you got distracted.
I agree 100%. I crashed and I was not wearing a jacket and I was wearing tennis shoes. The helmet saved my head, I had hard knee and shin armour saved my legs, gloves saved my hands. I had 3d degree road rash on both arms from my wrist to my shoulders. a fractured left ankle and 3 broken ribs. Had I been wearing riding boots and a protective jacket my injuries would have been much less. Since then It's ATGATT for me always.
I wear a textile jacket with Kevlar armour in the elbows and on the shoulders, back protection is improved with a Camelbak pack, merino wool base layer all day, jeans are full Kevlar lined and triple stitched on all seams, I'm super comfy for long rides. For short rides in fair or foul weather (
Born and raised in a state on the East Coast of the US I grew up always wearing a Helmet and when I moved out West where there were no helmet laws i tried it a few times and felt so naked and did not like having sand and rocks let alone bugs hitting my face and eyes tearing up I continued wearing a full face helmet.. for long distance and highway speeds it just made sense.... I wear one always but agree it will be up to you to drive defensively and good skillsets and awareness is most important... God bless all us riders....
Well said Stuart. That was a very fair appraisal of the facts. Your comments on rider behaviour were spot-on. I was working as a DSA motorcycle driving examiner in 1996 and we were equipped with Frank Thomas leather suits, without armour, and considered ourselves very well equipped. Since then riders have become mis-guided as you said. Safe riding is the answer, and not this constant need to chase progress ala IAM and RoSpa……
Sliding down the road on my knee, I was glad to have armour. Jeans went through but the armour took the impact and I walked away.
Protection is the last 1% and I would always be glad to be less injured, even if it is just a little bit
I agree with your assessment. I also believe that we should stop using the term “armour” for what is essentially padding. If you call it what it is it begins to diminish its effectiveness. Oddly many comments refer to sliding not impact. the padding was designed for impact not sliding, you need something between the padding and what ever surface you plan to slide on to protect the padding. It’s padding not “armour”.
I look at this way and a wearer of both AA and AAA kit every time I ride.
Wearing my gear will reduce the amount of road rash god forbid that me and the tarmac have a conversation over wearing a t-shirt and my 501's.
As you say hitting a solid object at most speeds will not protect me from my wife cashing in the life insurance and popping off to sunny climes 🙂
Safe distance. Slower speed especially in rain and remembering that they are all out to kill me is key as you say.
I wear the gear and it isn't knock off stuff. It doesnt make me feel invincible and it doesnt make me ride like a pillock.
When I started, knee and shoulder and elbow protection was extra leather with a bit of padding. I prefer the modern stuff. Back protectors dont bother me except for sweat in the summer and Ive always worn gloves, boots and a full face as well.
It wasnt the EU making me wear this. It was my own choice. I can always take them out of their pockets or just ride in docs, 501s and an old leather but I dont want to.
Thanks Stuart, as usual, a good video. A healthy dose of relevant factual information to which is added a big dollop of common sense and a liberal helping of experience for good measure, all stirred into the mixture to give us a well reasoned argument. The recipe for pleasurable motorcycling
Enough said and I agree with it. Ride safe!
Balanced, intelligent, and in my opinion, precisely what I consider to true. Most importantly, if every road user demonstrated even a modicum of pro-activity, the roads would be a safer place. Sadly, reactivity (or no action at all... "it was an unavoidable accident"... ) is the sad norm. Thank you Stuart. You and your content are appreciated.
Well said Stuart! I wear enough so I’m not going to need a skin graft anytime soon if I slide off. And anyone who thinks their superior skills are going to save them, try using those superior skills on superior diesel.
Well said Stuart, two things that need to be remembered experience and the right hand control, I wear armour in my clothing but I am well aware it’s only for a bit more protection, and I know the key word bit more, experience is key, and like you after my 53 years of it, there is always the one time, eyes in the back of your head need to be remembered, thanks again Stuart love your presentations
I think the answer to why it isn't compulsory is a simple one and that is TAX, if you designate it as compulsory PPE you can not charge tax, you will notice on any invoice for a helmet you are not charged VAT.
The government stands to loose too much money but never weigh this against injury's being treated in hospitals etc.
As far as how the protection works the armour itself is only made to absorb impact, so after initial impact on shoulders, knees and elbows takes place the armour loses effectiveness and should be replaced the same as you would a helmet.
The garments themselves come in A-Rated, Double A-Rated and Triple A-Rated this reflects mainly abrasion resistance or how long before the garment starts to pull apart leaving access to the skin below.
So if you're looking for the best available you need a triple A-Rated garment with Level 2 armour, believe it or not some of the major brands market there wears as having level 2 armour but neglect to clearly say on the same item that the garment itself is on single A-Rated which kind of defeats the object when your looking for protection, it's a minefield to the unimitated.
Still as you've stated even the best out there isn't going to have a massive effect on a head on collision at anything above 30MPH or if you impact a lamppost etc at any speed your body unfortunately will distort in many, many un-natural ways breaking everything until it comes to a complete stop, BLEAK I know but know the risk, know the dangers and anticipate everything is your best defence.
However If you do find yourself sliding down a road with no furniture etc in the way wearing good gear is very likely going to help minimalize injury's and/or death so personally would always recommend using it.
I remember a time back in the 1980s when it was so hot in the south of France, I rode in a denim jacket and trainers as my boots and leather jacket were so uncomfortable in the heat, they were distracting my attention from riding. I could concentrate and felt much safer by being comfortable, therefore less likely to have an accident.
I agree with Stuart here.
I had a crash few years ago. Was doing about 50mph when I grabbed front brake too hard. Ended up sliding on road face down. My helmet was badly scratched in visor and chin area. Good thing that I was wearing a full face helmet. Had leather gloves without any armor. Broke thumb where it joins palm: those gloves with padding in that area might be a good idea. Broke pinky and little finger in other hand. Those gloves with joined pinky & little finger might be a good idea. Wore a leather jacket. Only minor rash in the jacket, I still use it. Wore heavy duty leather boots - not motorcycle specific ones. Those could have been fixed but it was cheaper to replace. Had kevlar lined jeans. Cotton was totally torn: normal jeans are no good. Kevlar held but I still had road rash in knees. I also apparently had fracture in one knee but that healed better than the fingers which were treated. Go figure. So definitely any kind of padding in knee area is a good thing. It also seems that the trousers contacted ground only on knee area.
That is about what you might expect from gear. Of course that is only one incident. I was basically lucky that there was no oncoming traffic or telephone poles or similar, outcome would have been worse. I walked away from the accident, yet spent 2 months recovering. Sold remains of the bike for parts.
The crash, of course, was totally my own doing. I was going too fast given the line of sight, condition of the road and my skills. So strongly agreeing with the comment about the gray matter.
Yes, the stickyness of the palm side of the protective glove might have been the cause I had my collarbone distal end loose in the crash (yes, I know the main cause was the crash). Maybe a small area that hits the tarmac in the case of a crash could be of some help. Just a product idea there, I do not comment on brain use or grey matter because they are unknown for me. And I don't have a habit of dismissing the stupid ones like me...😄
Blunt force trauma to the chest kills most often, so a chest protector could help, Kevlar lined pants will help with the road rash , and of course a full face shield helmet and some decent gloves and sturdy boots.
Even if the manufacturers could guarantee that armour and gear would save you, they would never advertise that as that would leave them liable in the 0.1% chance it didn’t.
So I never ride without head to toe motorbike clothing, especially after my accident 2 years ago, the paramedics and doctors in the ER all repeatedly told me it was lucky I had full riding gear, otherwise my broken scapula and ribs could have included my spine.
I think this is a reasonable argument. For myself as a new rider I aim to always wear armour, and to do so I have two sets, the heavy armour with insulated clothing, and lighter more everyday armoured clothes that are easy to put on for shorter journeys. That is exactly to avoid the thought of not being bothered to put it on.
And all that is with the understanding that armour can change a minor fall into nothing, and a medium fall into a minor one. Slide protection, and impact protection for the fall to the ground. Not impact protection from an oncoming lorry.
Having fallen a fair bit from bicycles (usually doing something I shouldn't have been doing) has taught me a fair bit about low speed slides (mostly up to 40km/h, and mostly around 20-25km/h), and the impact from falling from that height. I've worn gloves when riding bicycles for the last few decades, and can attest to the effect of even the light gloves used for mountain biking. Sliding on asphalt is no big deal, and the impacts change from giving weird aches for a day or two, to just continuing my ride.
At higher speeds I would really like some protection on my knees and elbows, road rash sucks! Hip and shoulder armour seems like a fair idea as well. And non-crushing shoes, just to hold against the heavy motorcycle if it ends up on top of my foot.
Understanding what armour is and isn't is important, and understanding how that combines with riding style and skill is critical. Defining your own minimum level is, in my opinion, up to the individual.
I understand that I am at a higher risk for various accidents, many at slow speeds, due to my lack of experience, so I factor that in.
Stewart - your detractors will never have had to deal with a fatal and observe the PM afterwards. Advanced standards and roadcraft will be lost on them. Always expect the unexpected and ride accordingly. Great video as usual.
Well done Stuart, this is exactly what I have been saying. Someone once said if you remove airbags and seatbelts from cars and replaced them with a spike emerging from the centre of the steering wheel cars would be driven with a lot more respect! Not possible any more but I admit to having hired and ridden scooters in Greece without even a helmet, just like the locals! The result was just to take a little more care and take notice of what's around you. As you say nobody needs to comment if they disagree, everyone has an opinion.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this part of motorcycle riding. It makes sense that no amount of armor makes up for irresponsible, reckless riding habits.
Bomb disposal body armor is to protect you from the fuse (after you remove it), not from the main charge.
Not the fuse! the detonator!
Lower leg injuries are the next most prevalent usually due to low speed drops and being caught under the bike even stationary. Armour in other areas is useful in a slide, because they spread the load on contact with the ground over a wider area, rather than wearing through the material immediately where the joint impacts the ground. Once you’ve worn through that outer clothing then you’re going to be grinding through flesh and bone. Knees, hips, shoulders and elbows are where research shows that contact is most likely. Minor discomfort might cost you a lot and modern armour is so light and flexible it seems silly not to incorporate it.
If you go from 30 to 0 in under 1 second, no amount of armour will stop your insides getting mashed.
Totally agree with you! Im always in protective stuff. It gives me peace of mind. Like the car seatbelt, I don't feel right without it. I am, however, well aware of it's limitations and try to ride safely ans not make too many stupid mistakes!!
Thankyou Stuart for putting something that I knew subconsciously into a context that makes sense to me , common sense along with rider skills and ability’s are far more important than your Jacket , Helmet and gloves .
Thankfully there is still someone out there with common sense. I really appreciate your pragmatic view of life in the real world we live in. Thanks! I just have to say before I go, Scottish women are gorgeous!
Very thought provoking and intelligent video. I have heard a number of experienced motorcyclists say that they feel invincible in the leather riding suits. That is not a great state of affairs. When I was learning to ride, I was practising some low speed manoeuvres and stalled the bike and it spat me off with surprising velocity. I went head over heels, much to amusement of some watching teenagers. I am convinced that I would have injured my elbow had I not been wearing a jacket with PPE. I am also paranoid about the slide. So I will always wear it. I hope that the chances of a slow speed fall are slim now but perhaps that is where ppe adds most value. But fully appreciate that for some people style and comfort trumps protection from minor injury. It should be a matter of personal choice.
Many years ago a friend's girl friend who was a nurse told us lads how they deal with roadrash, four big orderlies and a pretty little nurse with a scrubbing brush, we all cringed, even today 45 plus years later the thought gives a chill. All I would say about clothing is No bare skin, as others have said armour spreads the impact and helps with abration, and gloves being the most important, the first thing you do when you fall off is put your hands out, hands have thin skin and a mass of delicate and fragile bones, they need and deserve as much protection as you can give them, try opening a ring pull can of soup one handed as an exercise!!.
Just making pour over coffee was very difficult after breaking my non-dominant thumb! Cold (2 degrees C) new, tires mean a low speed low side. No damage except the thumb but it still hurts 10 weeks later, especially after I ride to and from work.
Try taking a piss with your hands bandaged up. You'll find out who your true friends are when you need that kind of help!
I think AAA abrasion rated leathers designed for high speed track use are going to be just fine at protecting your skin riding on the road at legal speeds. Even without gear though sliding won't kill you, impacts will. Your helmet might even survive a nasty impact but it can't stop your brain from sloshing around in your skull, smashing into the bone and causing a traumatic brain injury. Armour is still great to have and air bags are a game changer, but it should all be thought of as being a last resort to keeping you alive. I agree the best defence is to ride safe and avoid crashing in the first place.
Over the last few years, having fallen for the Kevlar/CE propaganda, I bought cheap clothing that claimed to include such protection - only to find that it is some sort of plastic or foam moulding that would offer zero protection. So it's back to the way it was 50/60 years ago - ride safe.
I agree with you, Uncle Stu. Anytime you throw a leg over the saddle, you accept the possibility of being badly hurt, as a result of your actions. But.... you minimize that possibility by being vigilant with your riding habits. The older you get, the more aware you become of dynamically developing traffic situations. Intuitively, you adjust your speed to provide sufficient time to react and therein, provide a margin of safety.
All the body armor in the world can't save you, if you over-ride caution and common sense. Years ago, I remember hearing .. "There are bold riders and there are old riders, but there are no old, bold riders"...
Unfortunately, CE ratings, particularly for abrasion resistance can sometimes be misleading. Looking at the MotoCap website from Australia that does it's own independent testing (not dissimilar to SHARP in the UK), the test results do not always correlate with what the items abrasion rating suggests.
11:25 you refer to armour as A, AA & AAA rated, is AAA actually a thing for armour?
afaik the the A, AA & AAA ratings are about abrasion resistance, with armour ratings being expressed as either CE1 or CE2, along with a size/coverage indication rating.
Still an interesting video, thanks.
Totally agree with the content of this video. Been riding motorcycles since 1967 and it is being aware of other road users and the road conditions that are the best protection one can have. Always wore leather until quite recently because I value slide/abrasion protection more important than body armour. Like yourself I also worked for a government agency that investigate HGV & PSV road collisions for 22 years. Having been called out to a few lorry to motorcycle collisions I can confirm that no amount of armour will protect a rider that ends up under a lorry or hitting one head on. Wish that I could un-see some of the scenes of carnage that I have witnessed. Ride safe EVERYBODY.
Excellent video Stuart.
In Europe there is a "bigger push" towards making riders wear CE approved riding apparel. Exactly which piece of clothing depends on the country. As you rightly state, France and Spain require CE approved gloves - *_and the Police will check_* DAMHIK. So don't tear out or lose the CE tab in *each of the gloves,* they check both gloves. Note: _the stated reason_ for mandating CE approved gloves on motorcycles in France is to reduce hand injuries, especially injuries to the palm.
France is pushing for CE approved amour to be worn in jackets and trousers, though this is being resisted by the FFMC (Fédération française des motards en colère).
I believe some of the UK government's, and other EU governments', thinking on this topic is to try to reduce the severity of the injuries, thereby reducing the cost to the emergency services and NHS.
Having earnt my living from riding motorcycles in the 1980s, I know, from first-hand experience, that wearing good gear, even without amour (it wasn't available back then), can reduce the severity of injuries - DAMHIK (again 😁). But, there are other factors involved in whether you are injured or not and to the severity. One factor being pure dumb luck!
You are correct to suggest that wearing certain types of clothing affects your riding style. I have noticed that when I wear a Hi Viz jacket, I tend to expect other road users to see me more easily (even when they are playing on their phone 🙄), which is usually not the case!
Again, as you very rightly say, always be prepared to take evasive action. *PPPPPP* - Prior Preparation Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.
Having reached a _Certain Age,_ my body reminds me of this every morning when I wake up 😁, I have decided to be ATGATT. This is my choice and my choice alone. *_What you do, provided it doesn't affect me, is your choice and has totally and absolutely nothing to do with me!_*
This is always an expansive topic, from those who ride in flip flops, shorts, and a t-shirt, to those like me who wear an airbag jacket, base layer armor and specific Daytona motorcycle boots, gloves, and a helmet. True, there is no guarantee that ANY armor will protect you from injury or death, for me I guess they drilled in the importance of safe riding gear in the beginning riding courses and it has never left me. I also don’t like bugs hitting me in the face and or possibly taking away my vision if a bug strikes me in the eye. To sum it all up, if an accident happens, I want to give the medical staff every chance to care for me and get me back to a normal life. Make the choice that is right for you!
In the 90s I rode in a t-shirt and shorts. In more recent years I got pulled into all the gear all the time way of thinking but now I'm definitely more about weighing up the risk and knowing I will take responsibility for my own actions. Don't think I will ever ride in shorts again but regularly ride to work in short sleeved shirt.
Thanks for the video Stuart. I might be being a bit of an anorak here but I just wanted to clarify the CE ratings you talked about. I’m not an expert but I believe that there are separate CE ratings for clothing and armour (and other gear). EN17902 for clothing giving the A ratings for the clothing that should include armour, but that armour has a separate rating EN1621 which is then split into level 1 or 2 for transmission of force. Level 2 being the higher rating. Worth knowing when looking at different protective gear. Gloves have a separate one too, again level 1 or 2. I’ll shut up now! Cheers
@pete36524 : Your understanding is correct. There are the various standards (EN 1621-1, EN 1621-2, EN 1621-3, EN 1621-4, EN 13594, EN 13595, EN 13634 and EN 17092 - plus EN 14021 for stone shields), and within these there are performance levels/classifications; e.g., EN 13594:2015 Levels1, 1KP and 2KP for gloves and EN 1621-1 Level 1 and Level 2 for impact protectors (for which there are also Type A and Type B, definining smallest and largest sizes, and T+ and T-, defining optional testing after conditioning at 5)C and -10C, respectively). All of this it seems you may already know, but if others reading this exchange were not clear on the differences, they can hopefully find a source of clear and accurate information to check out the details. The artiocles of John Milbank, at BikeSocial, are what I recommend.
As always you are right. If you are destined to die on the road, then so be it. You shouldn’t spoil the impression of your horse with all this armor. We are no longer young, but youth is in our blood. As usual, greetings from Russia. ✌️
👍Armour and abrasion protection are both fantastic……. until your body hits something solid at the roadside. So you’re absolutely correct about the track benefits of protective gear however having once slid a long way down a road in normal jeans I would always now wear decent gear.
So very true. Thanks again for another great video. Cheers and all the best.
You put that really well. Too many bedwetters have this strange belief that anything that goes well is down to them but everything bad must have been caused by someone else. The reality is all of us are responsible for our own actions. The clever ones amongst us realise that other people’s bad and stupid decisions and actions may also affect them, so they take act accordingly eg. letting the plonker behind overtake ahead have a crash all by themselves. Carry on with your good work showing us motorcycling, preparations, techniques, clothing, pens, knives etc.
There is one aspect not mentioned: the cost to society from personal decisions. I wear riding gear, even though where I live it is legal to ride even without a helmet, and many do, in part because I don’t want my expensive ER visit to be shouldered by rising taxes or insurance premiums on my fellow citizens. Even road rash, while not usually dangerous, is painful enough to bring people in to see me. I’m an emergency doctor, as well as a rider. I agree with the idea that sensible decisions trump gear.
Spot on Stuart. It’s a personal choice based on a personal risk assessment. Nice video and good sensible advice.
Even helmets in recent studies in USA where we have states with and without helmet laws found they rarely make the difference between life and death the difference is the kind of life you have after your accident.
Thank you! I've thought similar notions many times. If I could modify safety courses I would play 12:30 to 14:30 of this at the beginning, and again the entirety of the video after the riders have taken their tests and waiting to grab their cards and hit the road.
Brand new bike off the trailer at home, cold day, first right turn, 8 MPH lowside, no damage to my actual CE gear and only a broken thumb from the handlebars kicking back. My Riding jeans didn't even have a scuff. I am an ATGATT guy but realize it may or may not help enough, even with an airbag vest on top of riding jackets as well as helmet, gloves and riding jeans.. The bike slid farther than I did and I was just embarrassed and got back on and rode until the swelling and pain in my thumb drove my home to an icepack.