💥.357 Sig Xtreme Defender💣 (2,200 FPS!?) VS 🧨.357 Magnum Xtreme Hunter👍🏻 (Defender) Ballistic Test
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Testing out the Underwood Xtreme Defender ammunition in .357 Sig and .357 Magnum in a 10% Clear Ballistics test. The Xtreme Defender .357 Sig is a 68 gr Lehigh Defense bullet with a muzzle velocity rating of 2,100 FPS, the .357 Mag is the Xtreme Hunter with a 120 gr Lehigh Defense bullet with a muzzle velocity rating of 1,700 FPS. I also do a watermelon and long range accuracy test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
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I want to address something that has been bothering me lately, and that is the repeat comment in some form or another, about .357 Sig ammo price and availability. Paraphrasing 100 comments into one here - ".357 Sig is not available anywhere, and it's two to three times the cost of 9mm so it's useless". My question to these people is - what are you even talking about?!
I know that a lot of physical stores do rack up the price because all they offer is generally Federal American Eagle .357 Sig, which is very pricey ammo. But to say that the cartridge is hard to find and to say it's like $60 a box in general, is very factually wrong. Going on ammoseek, there are 5+ pages of .357 Sig for purchase just like any other popular cartridge, and about a dozen of these retailers offer 50 round boxes of .357 Sig for $22 to $25. Also, defensive ammo is often about the same price if not less than 9mm+P defensive ammo.
The fact is, .357 Sig is not all that hard to find and not all that expensive. It's not a lot different (at least online) than buying a 50 round box of .357 Magnum for cost and availability, but for whatever reason a lot of people are either seriously misinformed or have an agenda to make it seem as .357 Sig ammo is about as rare and expensive as .455 Webley (5 retailers online averaging about $65-$70).
Please keep the 357 SIG content coming it's sold gold. It's makes me feel better about carrying it lol the price on the other hand does not lol 😂
I have the penetrators to test and someday the HST. Probably will test the Buffalo Bore TAC-XP at some point.
Not sure why you would have doubts? From its time with the Air Marshalls, SS, and various highway partol agencies it has had nothing but a stellar performance record. Cost was it's only down fall and the reason it was discontinued.
Would u feel comfortable carrying a 357 sig glock with 13 rounds and one in the chamber for bear defense?
I think if I'm ever deep in the bear country wilderness im carrying 2 handguns capable of taking the bear down and lots of ammo for a mag dump of well placed shots, and a backup ccw revolver around my ankle in case the bear knocks me down or manages to survive my primary sidearm before I can reload. especially where the ungulate population is dense and thus bears in abundance hunting their prey at the same time as myself. I'm thinking a 10mm glock with speer gold dots and every other round FMJ to ensure penetration of the skull and center mass vitals combined with controlled expansion, and a j frame revolver chambered in 357 magnun with 180 grain SJWC deep penetrating rounds in case of emergency. And 2 extra mags for the glock and a 357 moon clip.
@@ThaGVPSon I use to live and hunt in grizzly country and my best friend's dad was a hunting guide and he told me he had a client shoot a charging grizzly in the head with a 3006 and it slipped off the skull. My buddies dad only had a split second to shoot it with a 4570 and it fell right at their feet. They are stupid fast and you'd be lucky to get off 3 rounds before it's using you as a trampoline lol but I live in black bear country now and I feel plenty safe with my 357 SIG loaded with hard cast. Buy y'all's milage may very lol
357 sig! I wish more people would get into it so we could get the price down on FMJ's for practice! It's still one of those hidden gems that only few know the true power of! This load is what they were looking for when they wanted 357 sig to compete with magnum!
Just ordered a glock 32 finally adding 357 sig to my collection.
Just practice with a heavy 10mm
357 SIG is supposed to be a 125 at 1300 fps. That's a mild 357 mag load.
@@bobjohnson1633 357 sig will do 1475 with a 125gr bullet. That's above an average 357 magnum, Einstein.
Gun manufacturers have abandoned it for 9mm
I chronoed the .357 sig defender against a 62 gr .556 from a 7.5 inch AR pistol and there was only about a 50-75 fps difference.
Dang 😮
That is amazing
If anyone was curious, the felt recoil (for me) of the .357 Sig here was about the same as 9mm felt recoil. It's highly subjective, and take this coming from a person who thinks 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have the same felt recoil. When you shoot a lot of .357 Mag in snubs and .44 Mags in general, this tends to happen with your feel of recoil in auto pistols.
Yeah I agree never shot the 40 but I shot all the others and your correct those pistols feel like toys cap guns to be exact 😂
I have an alloy commander sized 1911....standard 45 ACP is too much recoil for me....it feels worse that my 7" Ruger 44 mag bisley hunter
Which is superior for self defense, +p 45ACP 180 grain speer dot at 1150fps, or +p 9mm 115 grain speer gold dot at 1300fps?
@@ThaGVPSon A 10mm.
I first fired .357 Sig at a range that had H&K USP Compacts in 9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .45 ACP for rent. I tried all four the same night and honestly couldn't feel any real difference between the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 Sig. The .45 ACP felt a bit more kick. The ammo was all Winchester white box that I got from the range that night...
Everyone has their own opinion on it...
Still think the Heavy 158 gr BBore 357 MAG was one of sickest rounds you’ve shot on here 1400+ fps out of 4” barrel That & .44 MonoMetal was a great episode too
Because I have had a few people question the accuracy issue with this ammo, I am going to share a 75 yard steel shooting clip from an unreleased video with Hornady Handgun Hunter in 9mm and .357 Mag. Same revolver and the M&P 9 is exactly the same pistol as the .357 Sig, just a different barrel and magazine.
In this clip you will see what I do on average. The Xtreme Defender ammo in .357 Sig was impacting about 4 feet low, as where in this video clip with traditional ammo, the elevation is right where I aimed. Hyper velocity ammo does this a lot. ruclips.net/video/46NeB5eHUIo/видео.html
I learned - from your earlier videos - that a heavy, slow bullet stays in the barrel longer so recoil forces the barrel to rise which raises the point of impact. i.e. Slow, heavy bullets impact higher than light fast bullets. That seemed counter-intuitive to me "slow bullets drop faster than fast, light bullets, therefore the slow, heavy bullets has a POI below the light fast bullet"
@@lestergillis8171 It's trash lol. I own my late grandparent's house and the sheds are full of old wood, old tools, old ladders lol. Two screws through some wood into that ladder and there we go! The last time I stood on it the legs bent, I was like either this is junk or I need a serious diet, nonetheless it's a ladder no more here.
Yeah the xtreme defender has low recoil. I’m guessing because it’s a lighter projectile. I can’t wait to test it out of a 16 inch barrel
@@lestergillis8171 I’ve seen the lighter underwood defender (95 grain) get about the same out of a 5 inch barrel. Don’t know if that counts for anything, but I do know it can get these velocities.
@@angrysheepdog9744 I think that’s profile specific
The Underwood 357 Sig 65gr Xtreme Defender averages 2250 fps from my Glock 22 with a 6" KKM 357 Sig barrel installed. Definitely a fast mover.
The 357 Sig really impresses me. I have a conversion barrel for my 40 and a few rounds. Hard to argue with observable results.
is your a m&p as well?
@@joogullae3456 It is. Storm lake conversion.
@@guardianminifarm8005 thanks
357 sig is an outstanding cartridge, glad to see some renewed interest.
It's dead unless someone decides to resurrect it.
Good stuff as always. .357sig for the win 🥇! Throw some cardboard behind that target maybe so you can see where those misses are going at 75yds.
Good stuff GSRA. Appreciate the time and energy. BTW I've routinely gotten 2098 from my 4" Steyr with that particular Underwood loading
That 357 sig round may be my next carry round.
Holy Cow! That 357 sig is SCREAMING!!!
I'm kinda impressed by that light zippy round. I think it managed to penetrate because it didn't disintegrate on impact like a jacketed lead round probably would. It's also interesting that your two hits with the Magnum on steel were almost on top of each other. It made me wonder why the others missed. Do you adjust for each shot, or do you maintain the same point of aim regardless?
I will adjust if I think it will help. In this situation I did not adjust because I couldn't see where I was hitting.
This Video answered the question I had for Underwood Ammo about the 68 grain extreme defender terminal performance in 9mm out of a 16 inch carbine barrel, since the .357 Sig offering in a 5 inch pistol is getting the same velocity as the 9mm 68 gr. ED out of a carbine . Excellent video as always!!!!
This settles it. Once I get my FFL I’m picking up a 6” 1911 in 10mm and then fit a Bar Sto barrel in .357 SIG.
If that extra inch manages another 50 fps then that’s 780 foot pounds.
But still, even the 5” is incredibly impressive.
If you already have a 10mm get a 9x25 dillon barrel instead. Tony rumore of tromix got 2550 fps from this bullet in the 9x25 from a 6" barrel 😳
@@ryantogo8359 maybe someday. Just not all that interested in it. It’s a screamer for sure but I’m not looking for the fastest .355 out of a pistol.
I’m a fan of .357 SIG because it’s a short cartridge that punches above it’s weight class.
@@hivelsword what's the advantage of a shorter cartridge on a gun built for 10mm lol
@@ryantogo8359 ask all the owners who run 9mm in their defensive 2011’s. Ask them why they don’t run .38 Super or 9x23
It was a general statement of me being a fan of .357 SIG. My personal preference. It doesn’t have to make sense to you.
It’s also a cartridge whose practice ammunition can actually be purchased at a gun shop.
@@hivelsword the only people I've heard of do it for recoil and speed of follow up shots or ease of finding defensive ammo, not because of cartridge length. The gun doesn't get smaller because you swap in a barrel chambered for a shorter cartridge lol
I'm glad you agree that it doesn't have to make sense 😂
Great video Sam and I can vouch for you usually being pretty good at shooting 75 yds with most ammo. Some ammo just doesn’t shoot well at long distances. 👍👍
I think 75 yards with a hamd gun is way beyond most peoples capabilities. I think you shoot fine.
Thanks Gun Sam another awesome video bro, I hope .357 Sig makes a resurgence I am starting to perhaps consider it's basically 9mm with some of its deficiencies corrected.
Wow that's rifle type velocities out of the SIG.Hydrostatic Shock I've heard it called because when the projectiles hit tissue they displace the water in the tissue.They say that hydrostatic transmission occurs over 2000 FPS.
Yep, 2,200 FPS is required to cause plastic deformation.
@@vlogfriendsutopia
So at distance still below scratching that line and the weight drops quite a bit to 65 or 68 grain.
@@onpsxmember Yup.
Either round will deliver the goods that's for sure. .357 mag will still reign supreme in my book. I have both. .357 SIG has a tad more felt recoil out of a G23 C with a conversion barrel, and upgraded recoil spring with +2 lbs. Can't complain at all. 🎩♠️🎱🎯🇺🇲🏁🇺🇦🌻🔱💮🌼🌸🍀🔫👊
This is awesome define more good reviews on this ammo. I've been talking very highly about this Underwood ammo for years about how it's the next generation defensive round and not a gimmick.
Every test I've seen has proven that and now Wilson combat has a glowing endorsement of the product.
Both are effective, both are impossible to find. If you find it, it’s expensive.
.357 Sig is a screamin demon!
All interesting, Sam.👍 I’m usually not a fan of super light high velocity handgun ammo, but this has potential.
I’m getting ready to order some ammo on Labor Day hoping for a sale 😊I ordered some of their hardcast cherry coated 150 grain 38special wadcutters should be delivered today 😊they have been sold out for awhile 🙁 I also love the 125 +p gold dots in 38 special I got they are definitely the hottest 38 special ammo I own my 638 air weight loves them I use a pachmayr gripper grip 👍 Love your channel 👍👍👍
Thanks. I haven't had any Gold Dot in forever. Good thing about Underwood is they do say "bonded" so you know it's Gold Dot.
Wow, I had just ordered (and received) a box of each of those. Wanted to try a few of the wad cutters in my Ruger LCR, and the 125gr rounds are if I get brave enough (my LCR is the magnum version and they still pack a wallop shooting).
@@BigBobster86 I have a full size grip on the 638 it doesn’t fit in my front pocket that well anymore but I appreciate it when I’m firing hot loads ✊🏻
.357 Sig….. the “S-400 hypersonic cruise missile” of the semi auto defensive pistol caliber world. I got mine! 😎
357 sig rules!! And with that round lol forget it
I noticed myself, and the shooter in this video, enjoys the follow up shots. This round is actually fun to shoot.
I might be biased... LMFAO
Great video! Looks to me that that bullet type would penetrate a car body easily and still be effective.
Thanks
Almost got your chrono! Lol I've shot one of mine before on accident...
LOL. I have shot one twice. I have had two of the same one so most people do not know. Shot the first one in 2018 within like 3 days of owning it, bullet went through above the LED and electronics and didn't effect it working so I just gorilla taped the hole. You can see it if you look close in 2021 vids. Then a few months back I shot a buckshot load through my Governor, the wad impacted the screen and destroyed it. It may or may not work with the phone app hooked up, but a subscriber offered to buy me a new one so I went with the same one.
@@GunSam ain't nothing duct/gorilla tape can't fix 🤣
Sam, I personally liked the white background you used before, behind the watermelons better than no background. It looked like a more profound explosion on slow-mo replay. Just a thought.
I liked it too. But it got ripped off with the 10mm shot lol. I may have to get a better piece of something better, like maybe corrugated plastic or something.
Hollow base like a foster slug, that 65 is incredible penetrator of barriers.
My carry load in .38 Super is the Underwood 90 grain Xtreme Defender. 1560 from a 4.25" Commander and 1650 from a 5".
Very good video, thanks.
I’d use the 357 Magnum Hunter as a preferred load. Too bad about the 357 Sig POA/POI, pretty typical of ultra fast/ultra light loads.
Awesome video. As always love your content.
My laser sight does 3x10 to the 6th power mps but the gel blocks are unimpressed.
You sir are the first to test this out thank you!!!!
Nice head to head line up.👍
You're the reason I bought a 357 sig kkm barrel. It's amazing. Just got a good deal from Palmetto State Armory on some ppu 125 grain fmj. It hits like a hammer and is only 66 cents a round. The velocity on their website is over 1500fps. Great round and if tou have a .40 s&w you can get a 357 sig barrel and drop right in for less than 200 bucks. Thanks for the great videos.
That 2200 FPS is the magic number for that rifle like damage!!!
I must have stock in Underwood by now LOL. I shoot the 357 Sig 65g out of my Beretta 96a1 w/EFK 5.3 inch barrel. Quite effective.
it's rather affordable with the right ammo. I have seen it for like $15 for 20 with good hollow points. I'd pay that lol, 40 rounds of Underwood for the cost of 50 rounds of American Eagle, but hotter, starline brass and better quality. Buffalo Bore is outrageous prices but always have the weird stuff like .32 H&R, .327 Mag and other obscure stuff. For semi auto it makes no sense to not go with Underwood, unless you're looking for a TAC-XP or something like that.
@@GunSam "BB" just in their shipping charges is outrageous
Awesome video! Thank you!
Thank you
Try testing them with soft body armor
Glock 32 duty firearm!!
You are disappointed at NOT hitting a target at 75 yards with a pistol? TWO of those .357 rounds hit dead center-heart! You have HIGH expectations!..........................elsullo
Those watermelon never stood a chance 🍉 ☠️
Love the 357Sig ...
You can not use 357 sig bullets in a 357 magnum cartridge reloading . 357sig is .355 ( just like 9mm ) and 357mag is 0.357 or 0.358
Cool story bro
2200 fps is Mach 2. The shock wave would jellify all the internal organs, especially if hit in the stomach due to hydrodynamic ram. Someone's getting the chair. Cheaper just to shove em off a cliff.
still slower then Liberty ammo
Thanks I have some of their 125 gold dot sig 357 and to me they definitely have a bigger kick than my 40s&w ,9mm+p all Glocks g23 , g23 with a sig barrel,g45 or my 638 s&w with + p ammo
At 2200 fps, it only needs to be 6 times faster, i.e., another 5 times it's current speed to permanently leave Earth's atmosphere if it had zero drag for the first 60,000 feet or so. In that case, coat it with Teflon, tweek it a little, and every government agency would knock at your door.
The 65grn. are a machined bullet. The 68grn. are cast. The 65grn. will eventually be replaced entirely by the 68grn.
hi, to you ... !!!
what's matter ... ?!?
🙄😟 a hottest cartridge unmanageable ♨️🤔 ...
bye bye
THOSE ROGUE WATERMELONS WERE ASKING FOR IT 🙂
love the video man. Great job.
9:38 excessively fun! 🤩
The .357 Sig, it's one of those simple things where it seems too good to be true. Like how does this recoil like 9mm, have the energy of low end .44 Mag...But yeah, watermelon destruction is always pretty fun. Except after lol. Gopro is always quite sticky.
It's would be a dream to see underwood 100gr 10mm extreme Defender vs 68gr 357sig extreme Defender
I to prefer 38 revolvers and load 148 gn dewc for target and defense. I do also carry a 380 for connivance for which I also reload with 95 gn lead flat nose. I am aware of the performance of the 38 wad cutters but I am curious as to the performance of the 95 gn lead flat nose in the 380 and also loading it in a 38 special for which I tried out with excellent accuracy and with very low recoil. I do not have a way to record velocity but data for a 95 gn in the 38 was around 1000 fps. I use silhouette powder with which I’m very happy.
RoaR
Another interesting comparison. Personally I feel the felt recoil of
357 Sig to be less than that of 40 S&W. My comparison is based on using my SIG P226 which came with 2 factory barrels. One in 357 Sig and one in 40 S&W. As a result my EDC is my P226 with 357 Sig barrel installed. Only exception to this is if I am hunting then I carry my Ruger GP100 in 357 Mag. A habit I got into from when I used to live in Florida and could come across gators or boars while hunting.
I felt it was a lot snappier than 40 in the same gun. That being said I was shooting remington green white box ball 40 and sig v crown jhp in 357 sig
Take your hat of bro! Let the moisture escape out the top of your glasses.
Clocked 2282 FPS from my 5 inch barrel Glock 22 with alpha wolf 357 sig threaded barrel
Nice.
People who like power need to try the 7.5 fk. 1950 fps using 95 -105 grainers. If it used 65 grain bullets they'd be going like 2400 fps. It's a beast of a round and can take down 500 lb animals within 100 meters. It's crazy awesome
I was just thinking the same thing. If we can get them to try a lighter fluted bullet in that caliber. It would be like having a carbine in a pistol.
9x25 dillon will do 2550 fps from a 6" barrel with this bullet. And can be build on the cheap unlike the overpriced proprietary 7.5fk stuff
@@ryantogo8359 Maybe. But show me a reliable auto loader that shoots 9x25 dillon? I'm not a gun tinkered and like that you can buy the 7.5 fk off the shelf in a very very reliable auto. I imagine 9x25 Dillon requires a bunch of bullshit spring changes, custom barrel, and lot of crap to make it actually reliable, and then it probably saves you maybe maybe a couple hundred. I would personally rather just buy the FK. I have other guns to shoot cheap and often.
People buy 50 bmgs too and they are expensive as shit. It's just fun. But no one seriously questions that they aren't awesome. 7.5 fk is awesome. Maybe slightly pricey but definitely awesome. 454 casull is pricey and awesome too
@@ryaniam22 454 can be had in way cheaper pistols that the brno. And no spring changes or anything that I know of, not sure if you've ever owned a glock but a barrel change takes all of about 5 seconds and you're shooting 9x25
My 357 bore measured .356 so I shot 9mm slugs .
👍
Thanks. Good video. Take care.
I feel like it’s not as accurate as the heavier rounds out of a Glock 32, but you can tell that it packs a wallop.
Also, it sounds almost like a rifle bullet 🤣
Sam, I've watched all of your work. I trust your opinion, you're an expert. In your opinion, are these Extreme defenders as good as they look? The damage in gel looks worse than anything I've seen. But is it just because it's gel? Would it have this type of effect in flesh? I've heard some say these are fools gold, look amazing but really are just a by-product of the medium. What's your honest assessment?
I have heard hunters say they do quite well hunting hogs, some even say better than traditional ammo. Based on that I would have to say they are probably pretty good. But, that being said I think it needs to be moving really fast. Like when you're talking 1,200, 1,300, 1,500 FPS+ I think they are going to do quiet well. If we were talking a .45 ACP and lets say there was a 200 gr doing 1,000 FPS - well I might be skeptical that it is as effective as a traditional hollow point expanding. Same as a .38 Special moving slow, I would be skeptical to think it would do better than a hollow point.
@@GunSam Thank you Sam. If they're going very fast, they're pretty nasty.
👍
Underwood Extreme Defender bullet. I saw this non deforming bullet being tested in .32 auto. into gel. It delivers a 100 percent increase in PWC , it is said. Yes the Sig .357 is awesome but is it necessary and more capable to incapacitate in reality ? You know why the revolver will never be able to compete with the Sig .357 chamber because of the cylinder gap. Use what makes you happy, I'll say. Hopefully all of us will never be presented that need to defend our life.
I wouldn't say that the revolver is not able to 'compete' because of cylinder gap. I have seen tests done, average 5% velocity potential lost. Also I have hit 794 ft lbs energy with some ammo in my 4" revolver in .357 Mag. Up unto this point I haven't seen those numbers with .357 Sig and I don't think any are more powerful than this round.
@@GunSam okay
@@GunSam Not to mention the revolver's "free bore" which let's the bullet accelerate even more than an auto loader. Cylinder gap does not negate the freebore fps.
Great video, tanks
Guessing your cap bill is trapping your breath around your glasses (later part of the video).
Michigan is a highly humid area. There's even times in the late summer where the inside of your windshield will drip and you can't do anything about it. It's bad!
@@GunSam Minnesota dweller here. I think you guys probably are more humid than we get. That sounds gross. haha
I am surprised the sig round helded up at that volisaty.
Solid copper!
Stupid shootin 75 yards off hand and think ammo is reason for not hitting target ....
I literally filmed a video right before this, same pistol but my M&P 9, hit like 8 of 10 shots. If you don't think hyper ammo significantly effects impact, you need to do some homework.
@@GunSam must be his first time watching
I have the Pro version of that M&P. ( KKM barrel 357sig) The main difference is fully adjustable fiber optic rear sight.
Yes, all the light copper bullets hit low.
My theory is, lead bullets are rear weight
biased. Rear drops, nose goes up, bullet gains slight altitude. I think the copper bullets make a laser strait path to the target.
It's actually because the bullet exits the barrel so quickly that the muzzle rise doesn't affect the bullet as much. A heavy slower bullet stays in the barrel longer and is more affected by muzzle rise
@@ryantogo8359Yet high speed film shows no evidence of this. Muzzle rise does not occur till bullet exits bore.
@@almaadams3631 it's obviously a miniscule amount, probably too little to be observable. Makes a lot more sense than what you proposed
@@ryantogo8359 OK Jr.
I received my first 22 rifle when I was 7, that would have been 1974. Between hunting, working the target traps at age 12, reloading, casting lead, ordering Knox ballistic gelatin in the 80s along with pottery clay for terminal ballistics tests. Rifling twist rates also affect the way a bullet climbs or dives along it's flight path.
Barrel oscillation and harmonics vary as well.
I am not "proposing" anything.
I am relating years of observations.
Very good test
357 magnum is still the daddy of them all...
👍 🇺🇲
👍😊🎯
.357 Sig, every time
Screw driver bits
I have the Xtreme Penetrator 115 gr which legit are phillips heads lol, perfect "+" sign with squared off edges. Makes sense though, as it's basically a flat point with material removed from the sides, will keep in line like a flat point but have less drag. The Xtreme Defenders are a bit different. The phillips head goes into points like a shuriken and the flutes follow suit so rather than push through, it sort of pulls material in like a blender.
Try the 90 grain XTP in 357 sig, I loaded to avg 1660 fps, good combo of velocity, energy, and consistent groups. 68 grain is just too inconsistent groupings even at 20 yards
I GOT NEWS FOR YOU!! YOU CAN'T SHOOT FOR ****.
Oh I know. The holes touching each other is no good, not as good as you for sure.
Sure, the ammo is the reason for the misses. Riiiiight. Lol
Anyone knows how significant ammo weight effects it. I didn't add to the video a part explaining it, but I went up and looked and at 75 yards the bullets were impacting about 4 feet low. Ask Paul Harrel about it. Hyper ammo does this. Maybe you learned something new today, maybe not, who knows.
@@GunSam So why not aim 4feet higher .Harrel has told it so whats the problem. Learning proces??
@@toxopho because it's a 20 round box. By the time I see what is happening, there's no more ammo to try.
SCREWDRIVER BULLETS ARE 100% SNAKE OIL what clear gel looks like doesn't matter that's not tissue....now the first few inches over 2200fps some not all tissues tear (all tear around 2600p fps) ..357 sig is an impressive cartridge. Lol idiots...any higher velocity round will do more damage first few inches when still at higher velocity until it's momentum/velocity decipates quickly. A lighter faster fmj does this too... flutes don't matter (until rail gun speeds) except to make it look great in easily torn Clear Gel....snake oil
Unfortunately we may never know. If Detroit PD adopted it, we might get some data lol. But without any good source of info on real world use we may never know. I know hunters say they work well on hogs and deer.
@@GunSam not half as good as jhp from anyone that hunts small game....an fmj can kill in right place that is all they do. A toddler falling over had more lbs ft than none Magnum handguns...they Don't tear lol
@@GunSam Actually data does exist. These bullets are just a version of Charles Kelsey's Devel Bullet (six flutes). And his work was in turn based heavily off of the 1940's THV (very high velocity) work the French did with reverse ogive bullets. Some of these were put into use throughout African LE and Mil units. As a revolver guy I'm sure you seen them. The bullets that look like the board pieces to the old Sorry board game. Flutes do have an effect but signicant speed is required. Gel is just a repeatable test medium, for how the bullet preforms. Not what it does to flesh.
@@DanTheWolfman Save the snakeoil for your Fudd buddies. They work as advertised. They have already been tested on medium game. Also known to defeat more than a few types of body armor.
@@almaadams3631 Says the literal child that can't own a gun, that thinks are argument is one by talking about game in one sentence and body armor in another. Maybe you should go to school and study better, take a physics class perhaps. But I seent it in the clear gel man.... yep, you know more than every military and law enforcement agency in the world...because you watched a youtube video bahahhahahahahahahhahaha
looks like a great round one thing I always wanted was a Glock clone with a tokarev conversion barrel because I don't think anyone's ever done it but would be fun
Too long a cartridge to fit even in 10mm blocks
@@DanTheWolfman I know it won't fit in a Glock I mean in general why haven't they designed a double stack tokarev yet
@@joemorganeatmyshortschannel agreed ppu jhp goes 16" expands and 1650 fps they disagree one in China zastava EZ99 or something
We have 357sig, why go backwards?
@@almaadams3631 because it's a martial round used all over Europe why do 380 Glocks exist? That's inferior to 9mm