F-15A Ejection HUD Video Breakdown (Nov 1995 @ Whiteman AFB)
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Breaking down the HUD video of the "Misty 1" F-15A ejection at Whiteman AFB in 1995. Watch the original video here: • US Air Force F-15 engi...
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Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.
The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.
"giving the jet back to the taxpayers"
Best phrase for ejecting I've ever heard.
From what I understand that's a pretty common phrase among military pilots for ejecting.
the funniest thing I've heard this week
@@therealsnow it is
Random F-104 driver left the chat.
it thought it was getting the plane home was giving it back to the tax payer cuz if you eject, tax payers aint getting shit back xD
This happened when I was a young Airman at Whiteman. Our engineers had a hell of a time digging it out of the field across the country road off the south end of the runway.
Did the taxpayers at least get some spare parts back?
@@timburke127 I use to work F-15's. I bet they got some that didn't burn. Not many though.
@@59thfsaviation79 yeah he probably thought if an f15 can land with one of its wings cut off then why cant i land it while fire is burning the shit out of the plane
I love these breakdowns.
I was on the flight line that day and standing with a crew ready to leave on a B2 sortie. They had to shutdown waiting on the IFE and one of the pilots said the same thing as we were watching out of the back of the dock... "Why didn't he eject a long time ago?". And that FOD walk made for a long day, but glad he survived.
I remember seeing this a few years ago when I was in high school, and being really impressed that two thought of those fire dynamics while doing 300+kts to keep up with his lead. Was a good data point on what kind of minds good pilots need to have.
Just when I was asking myself what to watch at lunchtime. Thanks Mover!
Usually there's a pilot on the ground radio who can help in emergencies; the SOF, Supervisor of Flying... didn't hear one here. A good SOF would read the same checklist, and when the fire is still raging, ask TWO flatly "Has he ejected yet?"
Even if there was an SOF chances that he could see inside the can that was on fire are slim to none.
Hey, you should do a breakdown of the B-52 crash at Fairchild. There are some great videos showing the reckless flying incidents leading up to and video of the mishap. Its a great example of knowing when to put the foot down on poor airmanship and systematic leadership issues.
I would try same size of your video, but side by side layout is best so no info is lost from the source video :)
Reminds me of United Airlines Flight 173. They had a problem with the landing gear. The captain became fixated on landing but failed to notice his fuel running out nor understand the gravity of his crew's warnings. His first officer only gave out indirect hints. They ran out of fuel and crashed.
This was one of the major events that led to a change in culture and power dynamics in the cockpit. Captain and copilot became closer in terms of power level. Captains had less of an authoritative role and a more collaborative mindset was fostered among captains, copilots, and flight engineers.
The #5 bearing scavenging failed. The fire was continuing because the oil was being pumped by the windmilling of the engine. The fire being stagnated discussion was in reference to an earlier mishap where the fire spread once airflow was stopped.
He was concerned the jet would crash into a B-2.
I am the pilot. I know what I'm doing. It won't happen to me, I'm capable of handling this.
Words to die by.
It wont happen to me - famous last words indeed. Pilots, drivers...ego's a killer.
Interesting, the checklist you have is that the same they had in 1995? Also have you looked at the Israeli F15 emergency landing in 1983?
I was a "Boomer" for a while during my career in the Air Force. I was always taught (before this incident) follow the checklist. We did it in maintenance before I went to Inflight Refueling and after I went back. I even had a real-life case of my own in maintenance on KC-135R's where I due to something not being in the checklist, a bold-faced step was added to prevent having to change shear pins on the QSAS (APU's). I'm glad the pilot was okay.
Went back😲huh? 🤔 hmm.
Winds 24 - gusting to 31....Makes for a bumpy cloth flight and rough landing. This close to the mud he might still be G-Locked and napping when he kisses the dirt....ouch!
Looks like 8mm that was then on VHS before being digitized on a computer, because of how the color signal isn't lining up with the luma signal, and it's bleeding. It would've been way better if they digitized the original 8mm filmstrip, I'd wager.
Mover the life of a pilot is more valuable than a jet over time. The cost to training plus the sorties he will fly in the future is invaluable..Why doesnt his Wing man call out his call sign and say Eject?.....you explained it...his landing 😰...going to fireball it.
Are there any situations you might belly land in such a situation, especially if you know the jet it done?
In this instance, Belly landing would have actually increased the opportunity for the fire to spread and perhaps completely engulf the jet through a ruptured fuel tank. With the engine fire already guaranteed to spread as speed decreased anyway, belly landing wouldn’t have been seen as a problem-solving option. In fact, there were no good options which is why Boldface says “eject”.
@@livingadreamlife1428 The key with belly landing.....or any landing in a fighter is staying on the runway. Once on the ground on the belly, you have zero control. In a fighter, you are big-time exposed if the jet rolls over. Remember, you are sitting on top of the airplane......and you have a lot of explosive material under your seat! Last week, a couple of AF guys jumped out of a brand new F-15QA that somehow got off the runway. Fortunately, the jet remained upright and will likely be repairable. But I am sure those dudes punched because they didn't want to end up like Thunderbird 8 did a couple of years back at Dayton.....upside down in the grass, pinned in the jet on hot seats, hoping the CFR guys could get them out before really bad things happened.
He was a 4000 hour weapons instructor.
Why has nobody mentioned that ejecting early would have put the plane down who knows where? Into a school, residence, shopping mall? He had the balls to put it down, risking his own life, to know he was putting that plane in a controlled area. I don't think he did a damn thing wrong. My hat is off to him. May he rest in peace.
It would've put the aircraft in a field, which is where they were in the airspace.
The fire was caused by an oil leak from the #5 bearing compartment. This was internal to the engine, and in fact was the rearmost bearing compartment just in front of the augmentor. The fire was completely contained within the engine and would not have burned through because the area immediately surrounding the bearing compartment is designed for high temperatures. There was just 3 gallons of oil in the tank fueling the fire. Shutting down the right engine and landing single engine would have been doable. The oil leak that caused the fire was caused by maintenance. Too bad about the checklist.
In this kind of situation, the pilot has no way of knowing what the actual cause of the fire is in order to be able to make the call whether it is safe to land or not. When you have to make a decision with such limited information available, the less risky choice is controlled ejection, rather than to risk it being a low risk when it could be a much higher one.
@@NarutokunJB You are correct; however, there are clues that could help a pilot make decisions if there is time available and regs permit. For instance, if there is a fire visible inside the engine (reported by wingman), no nacelle fire warning, and the engine instruments indicate normal function, it is somewhat assured there has been no breach of the engine casing (no rotating parts exiting the engine which would cause an airframe fire). In that situation a shutdown can be managed. This incident occurred because the pilot was afraid of what he didn't know, and didn't perform a typical engine out landing. I know pilots have a lot on their plate, but hitting the books on their aircraft systems would really help in this kind of situation.
@@RedRoosterParty But wait... is that the master caution at 2:46? Pilot must have had indications of a fire (he asked #2 to look) so he knew his butt was burning.
@@z33511 if this is a master caution, it could have any of multiple causes. If it was a nacelle fire warning that would be overt, but his radio calls do not clearly indicate such. Since the engine only carries just over 3 gallons of oil and oil is fueling the #5 bearing fire, he may be seeing low oil pressure on the #2 as the oil is burned off. Perhaps it is vibrating. This is typically why he would want a wingman to inspect his #2. It would be prudent to shut #2 down in the case of an oil fire because continued operation could cause an actual failure of rotating machinery that could cause an aircraft fire. Shutting the engine down would stop the flow of oil to the compartment, too. There is discussion about loss of airflow potentially being a problem, but in reality that would not be a problem if the fire is inside the engine unless there was a titanium fire, and in that case there is nothing that could be done but punch. The only titanium in the rear of the engine is in the external duct and some of the nozzle hardware. The fire was not emanating from that part of the engine but from the centerline.
Hi CW. I'm 100% with u. Mean if chcklst says bail out u bail. U follow the rules. On the other hand, the guy is (or thinks he is)
in control. And he tries his shot. I think there's always a little margin for personal evaluation of the situation. Anyway, I stick to the book. Return the aircraft to tax payers.
I'm curious: What was the rank of the lead pilot? If he had a lot of flight hours and was a field grade officer, he might have thought that he could save the jet. Regardless, it was a courageous, if not very risky decision, to attempt to save the plane. If the pilot was a senior officer in the squadron, that might have led his wingman to be less assertive - just saying.
I mean, he technically did follow the checklist eventually. Just saying....
I’d argue it doesn’t say when to eject lol
You were both a single and dual engine pilot, when you went to the Hornet from the Viper, was there any feeling of "well this is safer" considering there's a second engine? I'd be nervous if all I had was a single engine and she pooped out.
Edit* Using the survival rule where 2 is 1 and 1 is none.
Made ejection decision easy on the Viper.
Oh wow there was a UFO in the shot! Even the alien was saying WTF is this hotshot thinking!!
Complete speculation on my part here, not a pilot in any way, shape, or form, and this is our sole experience to judge this guy on... but it reads to me as a bit of hubris as well. Either he didn't go through the checklist OR he went through it and chose to ignore it. There are only so many reasons for a person to do those things.
I would like to know how many times this pilot has ejected before or if this indeed the first time.
Hey Mover do u read these? If you do, I would like to send you a picture from the VFW that I’m a member of
Interesting..
As he was coming over the threshold at 275 kts, I bet he was thinking "This seemed like a better idea a few miles back".
lmao fuckin accurate
Yeah. He should’ve ejected there if nothing else.
@@patrickmcbrien9303 I'd have gone as a max at 10 miles hitting the pedestrian conversion sequencer and waited with my thumb out for search and rescue.
@@spvillano lol
"Give the Jet back to the Taxpayers." That one made me chuckle
With extreme prejudice seems to be implied 😂
Me too. 🤣
Get-home-itis also amused me.
@@claudiodiaz9752 that’s one of them that is taught in private pilot training. Don’t fall in the trap. Which this pilot did. It’s a human behavior that you have to overcome.
And the GA equivalent.
"When the engine goes out, insurance owns the plane"
If you land a fireball and climb out, you're a rockstar. The consolation prize is being the star of a what not to do training video.
Or having a base or street named after you. After you didn't make it.
@@tommynikon2283
Do they name stuff after you when your firey jet crashes in a neighborhood because you wanted to land it instead of pointing it where it would have been better off?
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 Yeah, the latrine.
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 yes they do name a street after you normally
@@eldtaylo
That sounds more like it...
he did exactly what he said he was going to do. land it and get out quick 🙊
"Your life begins with the checklist because it might end without it." Words I lived by.
My dad joined the Caterpillar Club flying a F-100 Super Sabre over France in the early 60's. The club?; in the USAF, if you have to eject....you turn into a "butterfly". He and his backseater made it. He did the same trick again in the late 60's during Vietnam, over Laos (the secret war) in an A1-E Skyraider. At 91, he's still around and sharp.
2 ejections, pretty crazy! I know someone that got an incentive flight in an f16. He was an air traffic controller and won airman of the year. Squadron commander was flying and they lost the engine and had to eject. Happened at cannon afb back in 1999. Broken ankle but outher than that was good.
Tell your father thank you for his service!
God selected legend! Compared to the people learn this story from RUclips comments
Tommy your dad is a brave pilot and flew through some difficult times. I began my Air Force career during the mid to late 60’s as a crew chief on the Sabre and went to Nam with them. Somewhere around this time it was found that pilots who survived an ejection ended up being 1 to 1 1/2 inches shorter a result of spinal compression. With your dad’s case of two ejections in a fairly close time frame My curiosity overwhelms me to wonder if he experienced any permanent spinal compression?
Lol when you have to eject twice you would think to take the hint
“The encounter was a victory, but I think that we've shown it as an example of what not to do.”~Charlie
You did it. Well done 👏
Under rated comment.
I legit lol d
This reminds me of the only time I ever got to "fly a military jet." I was a civilian working at AFFTC, Edwards. Our HITL lab had a full cockpit F-16 simulator. As part of an orientation briefing the lab boys let me try it. When it came time to land I wasn't wasn't watching my airspeed, trying to line up my approach. I touched down at 350 KTAS, skidded off the runway, crashed the airplane, and I died. 😠
I'm glad they were able to revive you so you could share this story with us 🤣👍
@@JC-11111 Well thank you. I'm not sure that reviving me was the best thing for the Air Force because had it been a real world exercise I would have cost the government about $30 M that day.
I'd love to tell you about my NDE but there's nothing to tell. One night in Bismarck is pretty much the same as any other ... ink black darkness as far as the eye can see. 😉
Ah the heavy probability of that result, landing at 350 knots would be high. With the other story it’s hard to believe there’s not the slightest to talk about cause that would be a travesty of justice. Your innocent until proven guilty leaving nothing to talk about.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The 90's was a different time with regards to CRM. Thanks for the breakdown. Very interesting
Gareth I’m not slamming by no means I just wanted to drop a few cents at this point. I know as a result of several aircraft accidents where the FAA’s final investigative report concluded that poor if any CRM was a major factor in those accidents. This subsequently brought about all the positive changes in CRM in the past 20 to 30 yrs. My point CRM had been employed and used effectively long before it was officially titled and provided its acronym. Even though it may have been briefly touched upon during flight training it was more instinctive reaction with aircrews caught up in severe inflight emergency situations.
Great breakdown, always informative. Something I learned as Safety NCO reading all the USAF safety publications that came across my desk in the '80s was a simple but profound fact: Checklists for aviation are written in blood. We lost pilots in the early Eagles because we didn't know everything about them yet. The checklists come from those experiences. Especially in the '90s, you aren't the first guy with an engine fire in an Eagle. This guy got the best case scenario for not following that checklist, IMHO.
ADDED after some reflection: The Aces 2 seat was new when the Eagle was deployed, and a lot of guys were a bit frightened of it. I remember one guy (who ejected) saying that when it was obvious he HAD to punch out, he thought of his wife and kids, he thought about not having use of his legs, he thought about his parents. Deep breath, BOOM. On top of the difficulty of military aviation, on top of having a really bad day, they have to deal with that. It effects the thought process to some degree, no doubt.
My dad (command pilot AF, flew F4s in nam) always used to tell me that what lead was expecting from his wing man (especially from groups like the thunderbirds) was if lead flew into the ground he could look back and see his wingman following him.
So I’m not surprised misty was only offering suggestions
17:15 you can hear him breathing heavy and saying " Come on baby, come on baby"
There’s nothing at that time marker
@@basedchad2196 i just checked, its still there, go see the original version and FF to that point in the video, you will hear him say it, or what it sounds like he said.
Thanks Mover! Almost had to a leave a T-38 on my first solo (contact) in the aircraft when I couldn't get one of the mains down but did on the way out to the controlled bailout area. Left it down, landed on the apposite traffic runway (with clearance) directly , shut down after one engine quit (after the other quit taxiing back) and went to the O Club. This shit is tough and you got to stay focused. The Commander bought me a Scotch at the O Club and informed me to go home cause I was the first bird out, solo the next day. Thank yo!
Survive the mistakes, learn from them, then pass them on to the next generation of pilots so they don't repeat them...
Just pointing out of you elect too late you run the risk of landing in your own explosion
There was an F-15E at mid America that overran the runway and the crew ejected. This was like last week too. At first glance I thought that's what this vud was about.
It was an F-15QA
Mover doesn't speculate on things with active investigations.
@@VanquishedAgain right, that's why I was initially confused.
It was Omega 11
It did not overrun the renway, it landed and went off the runway. What happened and why has not been told yet. As Vanquished said, do not speculate about what happened, just wait till the report comes out. The only thing known is It was a F-15QA that landed and went off the runway and the pilots ejected. From the pics you can see it was not an overrun and was to the side of the runway.
"...giving the jet back to the tax payers" 😁
I found this video a long time ago. Drove past that field every day heading to work while I was at Whiteman. Couldn't imagine seeing an F-15 hurdling over the road and smashing thru a corn field.
Should he have considered that he was going to foul the runway with his debris. Great break down. I love your channel.
No the other aircraft would be diverted to the pre-designated diversion airfield.
I think he had bigger problems to worry about 😂 someone will get the rwy cleaned up pretty quickly if needed. Although, I suspect they shut it down anyways for quite some time.
@@Definitelynotanalienoranything Yes that's what he is saying. The pilot caused a disturbance for everyone else because he ignored the checklist.
I think one would have to believe he thought of that and the many other what-ifs and felt his chances were higher that he would get it stopped and do an emergency ground egress but....AYK things don’t always go as planned. However circumventing or failure to comply with every step itemized in the emergency checklist procedures of the -1 is not necessarily something to be disciplined for and different for each case. Let’s say it all went down as he planned and the fire was quickly put out. He’s a hero who bravely saved the USAF and taxpayers a ton of cash. I believe the Air Force places great trust and responsibility in its pilots to collect the facts and make a good logical decision and in this case the pilot (with great billiards and fortitude)did just that but not with the same results. I personally feel the heavy views that he didn’t do the right thing is inappropriate and should be corrected. This goes without knowing what action if any was officially taken.
I love your videos; great breakdown...however, as an F-15 engine mechanic and engine run certified, the fire extinguisher is only useful if the fire is in the engine bay, not the engine itself. Additionally, the checklist you read off said "If warning light remains on..." there was no bitching Betty telling him that he had a right engine fire warning, and no light on that I heard. Pushing the Fire Warning button does turn off all of your fuel to that engine but hitting the fire extinguisher would be as helpful as trying to piss into a bucket into the wind. Sounds like this was an oil fire because the fire never went out...then you're pretty much screwed, a windmilling engine will continue to feed oil to all the bearings...If the fire is contained within the engine, which I'm sure that's what the pilot believed, I can see why he would want to save the aircraft. I'm not sure if there is a separate checklist for engine fire contained in the engine while you're flying or not. I know when you're running an engine on the ground there is a separate checklist for external vs internal engine fire. Everything else you said was pretty spot on, he was definitely coming in too fast, if he had his speed under control and made a quick landing (without blowing the tires), blow the canopy and jump out he probably would have been ok...again, great video and breakdown...Thank you!
The F-15 has 3 hydro systems, PC1, PC2, & UTILITY. The speedbrake is operated from utility which is powered by both motors. Although you will have diminished hydro pressure with only #1 running. The speedbrake would work but all the flight controls might be sluggish at reduced pressure so he might not have used it.
Same as the F-4. Flyable on one but may have to take the approach cable.
The F-15 does have three hydraulic systems, each with its own (actually utility has a left and right ) pump but each system is also broken down in to two subsystems or circuits A and B. If a leak occurs, the draining reservoir will shut down circuit A. If the leak continues after circuit A is shut down, circuit A is automatically turned on and circuit B is shut down. This feature is known as reservoir level sensing. On top of that, all of the critical flight control components i.e., L/R aileron and L/R stabilator actuators have switching valves that allow another hydraulic system (PC 1, PC 2 or Utility) to take over which means the F-15's hydraulic system is more that triple redundant. Total hydraulic failure is possible but not likely...the fireball as fuel lines ignited would be the most looming threat. I show this video to all my avionics students, namely to illustrate the importance of communication systems and to let them hear Bitching Betty and RWR tones but also to see HUD presentation. As for single engine operation, there is no appreciable reduction of pressure in the Utility system that would affect aircraft manoeuvrability or braking. Great review of this IFE, keep up the good work.
Spam
@@stevecanham1591 Guess McDonald Douglas learned from all the F-4 hydraulic failures we had. I almost felt like a Navy pilot taking the approach cable at high speed.
@@stevecanham1591 I had read in the tech data that hydro pressure is reduced to 1800psi for safety of ground crew on engine #1 ops alone. While #2 runs all at 3k psi. The T.O. doesn't mention that #1 pressures increase with weight off wheels so I assume it holds at 1800. Idk if this affects flight controls during flight. I would assume not but I'm not a pilot and never got a chance to ask before I got out.
Whew. Been there...done that, Mover. Mine was a battery fire in the nose, but just as hazardous with a large can of 20 mm in the bay. Lots of hints from #2 (Get out!), but I kept thinking, "It's still flying, stay with it". Not great presence of mind, but ejection was not my thing. Luckily, mine went out. I got lots of drinks at the club that night, but I had a strong feeling that I had done something idiotic. I still do...
When considering these things, is the unwillingness to eject based on any one thing? Or could you weight/give a percentage of importance to 1. Flight career 2. Ejection survival/injury due to ejection 3. Saving the jet 4. Concern about the ground/crash site
Any insight appreciated. Thanks for your service to our country
My main question is how much concern of the dangers of ejection play into the thought process.
@@basedchad2196 This was in combat in Vietnam, Ghost, so I was not really concerned about my career or loosing the jet. During that time, we had a number of ejections, and almost all of them resulted in injuries...or in the worst case...capture. I recall thinking at the time, "If I pull those handles, I may never see my family again." It gives you pause to consider it. I guess the fire looked worse from the outside (wingman's position), but all I could see was a bit of smoke along the fuselage. I knew I had gotten hit and the round could have been explosive. The 20mm ammo drum was in that bay and the thought of those 1000 rounds cooking off was the driving thought toward ejection. Luckily, the fire went out.
@@Ed-hz2um ooooh, my bad. I had thought this was in Italy during training.
Vietnam is an entirely different animal, from almost anything! Thanks for sharing the story
@@basedchad2196 No worries, Ghost. It's a sure sign of the changing times when a pilot worries more about the career impact of an ejection more than his/her skin.
I was the investigating officer for this mishap. Want to know more?
Sure!
@@CWLemoine the #5 bearing failure was a known problem in those engines. The fix was held in abeyance for funding. The fire was contained in the engine compartment and continued because the engine windmilling kept pumping oil into the fire. The engine oil had cocked due to differential metal expansion in the #5 bearing scavenge fitting. The cocked oil plugged the drain and filled the bearing. That bearing wasn’t designed to hold oil and therefore the oil leaked out into the hot exhaust and ignited. I never understood his decision to land vs eject. His reasoning was that the jet might hurt someone on the ground or slam into a B-2. That being said if he’d just landed on speed he would have saved the jet. I saw the wingman years later at a Red Flag. He told me that the pilot had retired from all flying afterwards. In the final report both were dinged for CRM. Some of the generals insisted it was all pilot error because he didn’t land on speed. I believe they were just covering their ass because the fix had been unfounded. The AF logistics commander was at the final briefing and said as much. That commander had been my wing commander in F-111s and was a complete ass. Your review of the hud tape was spot on. The details of the engine piece just can’t be seen. One change in the F-15 cross country guide was made to have the jopes pulled and tested every flight. They had stopped at Whiteman between BFM sorties. If the JOPES had been pulled they or the transient mx would have noticed that the oil was dark and should have also noticed the burnt smell. Bottom line there were many reasons for the mishap. The least of which was the CRM between the two pilots.
By the way the original HUD film showed a pickup screeching to a halt on the perimeter road as the jet flew by before settling in the corn field after leaving the runway.
I meant coked not cocked … lol
This almost seems like a case of "Don't worry bro, I know my aircraft she'll make it" lol
19:50 Here we see the jet's life flash before its eyes
Maybe pilot was hesitant to eject based on surface winds? That’s a spicy landing under canopy with gusts up to 31. Could this have played into his decision to land and get out?
I am not a real pilot in any capacity, but if I'm trying to land an F18 in DCS or MFS 2020, and I'm still pulling 200+ knots right before touchdown, I think "it's time to go around".
BTW, there are no boldface in the F-15.
Interesting.
From the "russian point of view". Can the tower give the order to eject?
If this happened in Russia / USSR, then in the event of a fire, "Betty" would automatically broadcast "plane number ... fire of the right engine", then the flight director (tower) would ask the pilot what is happening with him, if necessary, he would remind checklist, and if he didn’t help, he would have ordered to eject. That is, the pilot must follow the orders of the flight director in this case. Just in case of such "heroism" - if the follower cannot tell the boss "jump", then the flight director will do it.
Do all Russian aircraft have an automated in-flight emergency broadcast?
I was wondering if the tower could order the ejection also.
That sounds like a very interesting system.
Thanks for the info!
It's really interesting to see the differences in philosophy, especially when it comes to safety procedures.
This is very interesting to know! Thank you for sharing this perspective!
Knowing how to identify that you've done everything you can do and it is time to get out is one of those paid in blood lessons. In any dangerous profession, not just flying. You just know "if fire persists, eject" wasn't part of the checklist until some poor guy rode a fireball down into the field and got himself killed. Sometimes the jet just doesn't want to come home.
Stinger: "Son your ego is writing cheques your body can't cash"
Man, you can hear the pilot panting shortly before touch down ...
Looks like one of my landings in DCS :(
Just one? lightweight!
@@martinjefferson3395 Lol
At the end of the day the jet would have been a write off anyway after all that (back to the tax payer as you said). Just aim the jet into a unpopulated area and say good bye to the thing. The check list said go for a ride on a rocket so go for a ride on a rocket.
How do you know there was one because if not it would add a lot of logic to the decision he took.
I’ll add some facts, since there was a lot of assumptions in this presentation. I have 2000 hours in the F-15A/C. I also flew with both pilots in this video. Sadly, we lost the lead pilot last summer in a tragic car accident.
First, there are no bold-face procedures in the F-15. Not a big deal, but since Mover mentioned them, I thought I’d clarify that. Second, this was not a “classic” engine fire. It was a contained oil fire in the hot-section of the engine. There was a bearing failure in the right engine which allowed all the engine oil to leak into the combustion section of the engine. Once the oil was completely consumed, the fire would have simply extinguished. So, the first indication of a problem were oil pressure/quantity warnings and some other anomalies that concerned the lead pilot enough to get his wingman to check his a/c out. There was never a fire light and the fire warning system tested good once the engine was shut-down. Unfortunately, this was a known possibility in the F-15 but wasn’t addressed very well in the a/c “dash-one” manual at the time of this event or widely known about throughout the community.
So, since there was no engine fire warning and the very reliable fire warning system was still operational, this was not necessarily a “if fire persists, eject” situation. Could he have ejected once the engine was shut-down and the fire was still visible? Sure, but when we were briefed on this accident that was not the approved solution. Without an actual fire warning from the dual loop, redundant fire detection system, this was not to be treated as an engine fire. If this pilot had been alone, it’s very likely he would have shut the engine down in accordance with the checklist once the oil quantity reached a point to trigger the appropriate warning. He never would have known he even had an oil fire in the part of the engine where the fire is supposed to be. He then would have proceeded at an appropriate pace to Whiteman and this would have been a normal single engine landing that didn’t make it on to youtube.
However, he had a wingman who provided some additional details that painted a more dire situation than necessary. That’s where the chain of mistakes began and as Mover said, there were a lot of them. Since he didn’t know about the bearing failure/oil fire scenario, one could make the argument that he should have followed the checklist and ejected. However, the lack of a fire warning left enough doubt in his mind that he wasn’t ready to go down that route. He wasn’t trying to be a hero. The fact that the engine fire was INSIDE the engine where it belongs should have been communicated. The lack of fire warning and good test on the fire system should have been talked about. The “airflow and fire stagnation discussion” only confused the situation and made it appear even more serious than it was. Lack of knowledge on cable status at the AFB they planned to use multiple times that day was another biggie. And finally, of course the approach and landing speak for itself.
Sorry to hear of the loss that’s sad. However I want to thank you for saving me the effort and doing it much better in covering these important issues, great job.
John, you can't speak for the pilot. Nor the wingman, unless that's you.
You're talking about facts determined after the incident. The pilot endangered himself, the public and ground crew against the chance of landing a burning jet against established guidelines. I'm sure, he would be the first to admit any errors in judgement after cooldown and time to think it through. The presenter of the video was kind enough in his soft approach to mistakes made.
No grey area when it comes to procedure and checklist. Black/white thats it. Glad he made it though. Just made a poor call.
Pros.. might save a partially burnt out aircraft..
Cons... Might lose control and pile into some ground facility...
The other con is that any ejection is dangerous. My guess is that this had nothing to do with saving the aircraft and everything to do with not wanting to subject himself to an ejection.
I know that in army aviation, you could get a statement of charges for not obeying the checklist.. bc they govt and contractor that build these bucket of bolts spend hours on these checklist... No amount of equipment is worth your life... Get the hell out and away from the problem... One thing they hammer into us,. The operator is the final call but the checklist is the authority... That's why they spend so much money and time to drill these checklist into our brain..it's why we have to memorize verbatim the bold face, system limitations and emergency procedures.. he was very lucky that the fire didn't take out a important system. And that he was able to eject, bc it could take out something important
"I'm going to get out of the jet....real quick." Oh I bet you will
The lackadaisical garlic genomically pull because undershirt chiefly pinch barring a limping customer. bored, chunky wholesaler
Like you said Mover, what if he lost his hydraulics on final and it sent the jet towards the base or the emergency crew instead of off the end of the runway? Bad judgement.
You've pointed out something the vast majority of the comments on the original video seem to ignore. They keep praising his "bravery." But it's not just about him! And if, having passed up the opportunity to put it somewhere safe when it was still under control, it ended up in a schoolyard or busy highway or something... yeesh. Brave, yes, but also very foolish!
Eagle has cable flight controls, but unsure if it has a blow down bottle for the gear like the Viper.
@@TDDummermuth still have the ol belly landing still I think he did what he felt was right. They say he should of ejected well thats qhy he's a pilot and we are Commentators lol 😆
Hey Mover! I think you would enjoy an interview with Ward Carroll. Some great stories from the f14 Rio side. I tried to see if you had him on your channel yet but did not see it if so. Hope to see you chat with him someday.
I second this.
@@Atlessa hopefully Mover sees this at some point lol
@@mikez4132 Maybe we should go over to Ward's latest video and suggest it to him as well?
Punching out sooner could have made persons on the ground more likely to be injured. He may have made a good decision based on where the F-15 would have impacted with an earlier ejection? Love your videos "MOVER"
On final he had the same speed that F104 had with no flap, 240kts....
Can you explain "2 Joker Bingo..." Why say Joker when you also are Bingo?
Re: "8mm tape converted to digital" - it would be great if there was a way to go back and re-scan some of this footage from the original tape. Could probably get a lot more of the detail that was in the original analog tape, by scanning to the latest 4k/8k digital standard. I wonder if the tapes are sitting in a box in some archives somewhere.
Amazing post. Pilots and perfectionists are close but not the same thing. You have a tenth of a second to decide which you are.
Do you know of any case that a checklist was "updated" after someone tried to be a hero?
That's happened in many aircraft. Checklists and FCIFs are written in blood.
DIdn't he say the one's in all caps are written in blood?
Kile the overspeed on the F15C gear is 270 to 300 kts max. I agree with you the checklist says jump you jump.being a hero is not always being a hero.
What happens to the jet when you eject as far as the flight controls? Does it go on a heading hold and automatically shut off the engines? If you were to punch out at 15,000 feet is there a chance the jet would just keep flying for many miles and go into an area you did not want it to go?
Interesting question. Putting this here for notification when someone replies
AKA "The Cornfield Bomber" F-106 ruclips.net/video/3M2XZEYqIpQ/видео.html
@@Rob2k22 yeah me too
I believe the pilot must be giving a continuous acceleration to the engine, like a gas pedal in a car, so if the pilot isn’t there to do that, then the engine will just go into an idle and fall to a similar angle as a stall. I could be wrong but it makes the most sense.
@@GothR6S no thats not how jets work man
Jesus. Is it me or does the time seem to drag way out in this emergency situation? I thought it would fly. He’s gotta be thinking my god this is just dragging ass!
At 20:04, HUD and HUD cam still working and the pilotless Eagle also achieved a complete stop upright (apparently without fireballing). Although left engine and other parts damaged too from the crash landing, it would appear the pilot managed to indeed "save" the Eagle. Comments indicate bearing oil fire that would not have burned through (perhaps before emergency vehicles extinguished all fires). What was ultimate fate of this Eagle?
The pilot's behavior was interesting. The rationale to save the Eagle is obvious. In the absence of an absolute necessity to eject, reluctance and hesitancy (and fear) probably played a part too. The decision to approach and land at high speed certainly questionable (using incorrect procedures to fix bad situations usually causes greater failure).
I'm sure he was avoiding the checklist on punching out because not only do you lose the aircraft, the seat may malfunction, parachute may malfunction, you could be injured on punch out and never fly again. I can see why he wanted to bring the jet back. With the fire in the afterburner section (that section can take a lot of heat), he may have thought he'd have control long enough to get it down.
The scary thing would be to have it burn through on final, you punch out and the jet ends up on someone's house. Tough decision either way.
You also don’t know where the wind current takes you or where your PLF is going to be. It could be many unfavorable places I.e., middle of a forest fire, an inactive volcano, hung up on the side of the 104th level of a skyscraper, inside the heavily fenced in Hazardous Chemicals burial site, it goes on....
Eagle has a huge Dorsal speed break( behind canopy)...just like the gear 300knts is over speeding it...belive me I repaired one at Luke, Young Lt. Snapped off a corner of a bran new composite speedbreak, Long night removing and repairing it,by the way, the jet was on the schedule 📅 to fly the next day...Cann bird did not have a speed break,Imagine that.
I am sure a taxpayer would appreciate the jet not going into their house. Thank you for the work on the break down.
No houses out in the desert
But it didn’t! Pay attention and watch it again.
late the video but almost feels like the pilot was too scared to eject and because of it tunneled on just landing the plane and there wasn't a single thing the wingman could say that would change his mind especially after the last discussion he had about the fire stagnating after he landed.
Base C/O - "If you attempt to land that aircraft with an active fire, you will never fly again."
It wasn't very clear, what do I do if the fire persists?
LOL
We'll probably never know what the pilot's motivations were for flying it back, but it would be interesting to see if anything from that plane was salvaged, or if they just scrapped the whole thing.
Motivation? A possible one is that the pilot was aware of an incident 8 years prior where an ANG A7 crashed into a hotel after the pilot ejected. 10 people killed and many more injured. Dash 1 may say to eject but Dash 1 don't care about that elementary school or farm house ahead. I'm glad he didn't just eject and hope that his 50,000 pounds of burning fuel and metal does not hurt anyone!
If you haven't seen it yet, the Royal Danish Air Force published a video a few years back where they showed a controlled ejection after some issues with the landing gear of a Viper. You probably don't want to film a reaction of it since the video itself is like an hr long, but just know that it's there. Our Danish brothers are very good at what they do.
They also did an interview (unfortunately in Danish) with the pilot that was about as long. It's on RUclips somewhere, I watched it years back. That incident was briefed in a joint Maintenance/Ops briefing by Lockheed when I was at Osan, the RUclips video was even more detailed than that Lockheed Brief.
thks !!great vid , like always !! No report can be found ,only this info : 9 November 1995, F-15A (SN 76-0061/SL) was written off 1 May 1996, plane was with 131st Fighter Wing / 110th Fighter Squadron
Did this pilot survive this incident? If so, was the outcome of his failure to eject given clear instructions to?
7:30 It's a basic cost assessment. Pilots cost more than airplanes. Eject.
Besides, the airplane will be destroyed in any case if the pilot dies, Dead pilots are terrible at landing. They hardly ever do it right.
Some valid points here in the comment section 🤔
Thanks Mover. But your words, "But for the grace of God go I"... I miss that understanding in people today. To quick to judge are we all. Great video in any case.
Good video, Mover. I can understand not wanting to give up the plane but, yeah, time to leave is time to leave. Find a nice open field to let the jet come to its sudden stop then ride that ACES II.
I know this is a 3 yr old video but in my career working with aircrew, especially in the ‘heavy’ community, I’ve run into too many pilots who’ve said, “I can’t land the aircraft” when there’s in IFE that calls for eject/bailout. “Checklist be damned, I can land this”. Yikes.
NOT A PILOT so take my comments with that in mind. However, the fact he waited so long, ejected at ground level, from a burning aircraft, in high winds, he is lucky he didn't land in the middle of a giant fireball of a burning aircraft.
This may be a dumb question. How does he have a persistent fire above oxygen altitude?
He’s not in space.
@@CWLemoine Copy That. Smh
You hit the nail on the head when you talked about Crew Resource Management 'back in the day'. Being afraid to speak up was something the Air Force and Navy & Marines, Coast Guard and even the airlines worked very hard to train out of their air crews. Safety in the air had to become the topic air crews were afraid to NOT speak up about. Unfortunately, poor CRM still comes up now and then but when you are the captain or flight lead or whatever you want to call it, you must leave your pride in the locker (or civilian equivalent). Tell your pilots/crew to never worry about speaking up, especially if I seem to be in a bad mood or something, I will get over it and thank you.