For what it’s worth back in the 70s I worked for a small company that loaded bagged chemicals into boxcars. We would close the car and put a metal seal ( like a large zip tie) through the locking mechanism. It had serial numbers on it which were recorded and I suppose included with the bill of lading. I never saw an actual lock, but things might have changed. Terrific video.
Back during the early 2000s we still had jobs with three man crews. Engineer, Conductor and Brakeman. So often you could have one person watch the movement into the clear while the other stayed on the headend and cut the power off. It was so much better then and much more efficient. Now the conductor has to do everything which ends up being a lot of walking and taking so much more time than it did before. But the pencil pushers and number crunchers who cut the brakeman off had no idea what value the position gave and deemed it unnecessary. Also back then before PSR marketing was much more bullish on securing as much business as they could. Now single car business is not sought after and in many cases deliberately priced excessively to get rid of it. They look at everything from maintenance to the track, employee cost, fuel consumption in regards to moving that single car. If the margins are too tight or even at a loss, you can kiss it goodbye. During my career the late 1990s to early to mid 2000s were the best in railroading.
I’m not a professional railroader, but I’m pretty sure most modern EOT receivers in locomotive cabs have a counter on them. The crew can simply press a button to start the counter when the head end rolls by a switch (or any other point like a road crossing, milepost, etc). When the number displayed on the counter reaches the same length as the train, they know the rear of their train has cleared that point. Also enjoyed the real world example of the variety a team track or any spur can give. I’m modeling a CNW branch that was abandoned in the late 1970’s. A small town grocer in the area told me they had a similar situation where he remembers going with his dad to pick up crates of fruit and other produce off of refrigerator cars. The railroad would just spot the car on a spur in town and local grocers from all around would drive over and get what they had ordered. Kinda cool the same thing is still happening in Miami and on your layout. Thanks for another great video!
There are train length counters in the computers of modern wide cab locos. You would most likely not see one in an old GP. However, they are not connected to the EOT in any way. EOTs connect to a head-end box and tell you two things. Hind end air pressure and if they are in motion or if they are stationary. You can also send a signal to the EOT from the head end to dump the air. To get the "most accurate" train length we usually start the counter when passing a car inspector looking over the train as we leave a yard and they would call us on the radio as the hind end passed, but this would apply to road freights, not locals. You can also start a counter as you pass a defect detector and when it responds after you pass it you can get "a little less accurate" train length that way, as the detectors don't go off exactly as the last car passes. A local train would change lengths many times throughout the day as you served various industries. The simplest way to know if you fit on a runaround is to know how many cars the runaround holds and how many cars you are connected to. It's that simple. In the scenario Lance showed here he cut the engine off the train as soon as he cleared the runaround. This would mean that the conductor would be at the head end and the brakeman, if it was a three-man crew would have been at the hind end and let the engineer know that they were in the clear. If it was only a two-man crew you would pull the train up as far as possible to the switch before cutting away.
@@15913Music thanks for the info! Speaking about changing train lengths, I’m sure the answer is probably “it varies,” but in general how often would the conductor update their paperwork to reflect the makeup and length of the train? As each industry is served or just when traveling from one town or location to the next?
@@bkaden1 *in general how often would the conductor update their paperwork to reflect the makeup and length of the train* yes as each industry is served you mark your workorder accordingly
@TPW900GP35 good comment... yea i did learn the importance of knowing how many cars fit between any two relevant points... not knowing can mess up your switching plans... can also dictate where you eat... being too long for a certain area means you can't dine at your favorite restaurant
@TPW900GP35 *NS road trains have whats called crew packs they bring with them supplied by the company* those crew paks every railroad has those (well the UNION railroads do... i don't know if the non-union roads have them)... that came about because of article X of the 1982 national agreement (elimination of the caboose)... the containers of water also came from this (company also has to provide the crews with ICE)... other things that came from this are: refrigerators/ice box, extra seating (comfortable seating with arm rests) an adequate lighting for the condr in the cab of the locomotive... there's also a penalty provision in that article X that allows for 2hrs extra pay for crews who need a caboose but aren't furnished one
Great moves, love the slow working.. I would have tied down the brakes of scrap hopper when I pulled the 3 reefers. Then when the last reefer is positioned down at the customer, as you say reposition the ETD on the adjacent scrap car, unpin its brakes, head of to the far end of train, get hooked up, pump the air, unpin the brakes on the leading scrap gon. Air test and ready to roll... Challenge is to minimise conductor walking time under the blazing sun, ( never rains in Miami ) so he'll be riding the cars where possible. Excellent video Lance, thank you John P
Thanks John. It's impossible to describe the suffocating heat to somebody that hasn't been there. As a northerner, I almost passed out once...and that was just from walking around with a camera!
I am enjoying your ops video series. I remember photographing a small produce company unloading potatoes from a refrigerated box car that was spotted on the very end of the downtown spur. I observed this same operation several times when I was railfanning the line. It is a great way to model an industry without taking up much space on your layout.
Your videos are so refreshing as is your approach - read your book on operating a modern day switching layout and it always gets me thinking about switching from N to HO.
I want to thank you for taking the time to make and share these videos. The books are good, but having something like this is both entertaining and informative. It’s like when you have a professor who never performs their art for you as a student, they just tell you what to do and what you’re doing wrong.
Very cool! One thing I notice is that the two ends of the runaround are actually some distance apart from each other in real life as the peninsula is in the way. So you have to walk at least some distance when going back and forth on the runaround. I will definitely try to include that in my future Walla Walla WA switching layout.
Love that you are uploading videos of your layouts! I’ve followed your blog for a while, bought books, and scoured the internet for all the media I could find of your layouts.
I model the LIRR, which in its day had literally hundreds of customers in a very small area, most with their own spur. The economics behind the shift to today's track model is extremely complex and reflective of transportation and technology changes throughout the world. It is a wonder that railroads have even survived to today, especially given that they were almost choked to death by the ICC before deregulation. I Love your videos and have many of your books!
From several videos I've watched, the conductor disconnects the EOT and tosses it off to the side of the right of way, goes through his switching duties, then retrieves and reconnects the device before moving on to the next job. That's for mainline jobs. Branches and spurs don't require EOTs. Consists are too short, and nothing is coming up behind them without permission.
Thanks for another great video. Looking at the switch leading to the peninsula, there's got to be some mental gymnastics involved in switching the end of line as well as getting on the head end to drop cars on the peninsula. Very challenging!
With csx we are technically supposed to do a safety stop before coupling in a customer and before fully spotting at a customer. Not always done in practice but it IS in the rulebook.
nice vid... as far as handling the EOT goes... @ 10:49, i would grab it and put it on the engine... then, as lance correctly suggested @ 17:00, hang it on the hind end
Pardon my ignorance in these matters, but when you are pulling the three cars off the end of the train at the runaround (12:20), wouldn't it have been better to let the conductor stand near the switch, pull the entire train back until the third car is at the clearance point, uncouple the cars, and then continue on? That way, the conductor doesn't have to walk the three car lengths to make the cut,
Great informative videos. I am enjoying this whole series. I too am interested in learning about the concept of "locked" box cars. How was this done? Were keys involved? In particular long strings of box cars did each one have a lock and key? Thanks for any help on this issue.
Great layout and excellent video. A comment and a question: First, from experience, the practice of running a forklift back and forth across streets or roads, while somewhat often done, can be a cheap thrill and not in a good way. Second, could you explain the 3 step protection procedure? How long has this been in use?
"Three Step" is a safety procedure employed by the engineer to ensure he doesn't "squash" a conductor when he goes between cars. "Three Step Protection. Additional protection that is provided prior to employees fouling equipment. This procedure will require the locomotive engineer to apply the train brakes, place the reverser in neutral position, and open generator field switch."
Great video, explaining a lot of questions about things a lot of people miss. Question: When they do a runaround maneuver, does the engineer stay in the same position while going backward?. I'm sure some locomotives have dual control stands, but rarely. Relying on radio messages, the engineer doesn't look out of window,correct ?
Only units I have ever operated with two control stands were some older NW GP40s and SD40s. The Southern Railway control stands were bi directional which were placed more at an angle that allowed the engineer to just look out the back window. A lot of NS units still have the control stands set up this way to make it easier to run long hood forward. But in the case it is not, the engineer has a side mirror that can be used for back up moves allowing the engineer to still face forward but looking at the mirror attached to the side window to see behind.
Thanks Tim. Do you know how the issue of locks on the cars would be handled. I have to think they'd "have" to be locked given the contents. If they are, how does the customer get the key?
@@LanceMindheimcouple of things. On NS there is a minimum of two handbrakes applied and any additional if there is a grade involved. Over time the air brakes will eventually bleed off and if there is not a sufficient number of handbrakes applied the cars could roll away. Loaded cars are sealed with a thin metal band that has a number associated with the load. Cars that contain valuable shipments will also have an anti theft lock that requires a bolt cutter to remove it. After removing the EOT a conductor will either lay it on the ground or put it on the locomotive. Once your done switching, you can either use the runaround track to transport it to the rear of the outbound train or if during your switching moves you are at the rear place it then or you could couple to the train, pull the rear up to you, hang it, shove back off the crossings and perform the brake test. If it is just a transfer test traveling less than 20 miles back to the yard all the conductor has to do is walk them on to check for application. Once he reaches the locomotive the engineer can use the EOT to verify the brakes are released on the rear.
OK, I can see how a forklift could unload all the pallets near the door of the reefer, but then what? Do they use the forklift to lift a pallet jack into the car and use that to move the remaining pallets to the doorway for the forklift to remove?
I've never worked a railcar but I have done exactly like you mentioned. I would forklift a pallet jack into a box truck to pull the pallets to the rear and then forklift them out.
I'm not sure about the unloading. I should have watched more closely. The forklifts swarm like hornets in the produce district. They're everywhere...zipping all over the place.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
For what it’s worth back in the 70s I worked for a small company that loaded bagged chemicals into boxcars. We would close the car and put a metal seal ( like a large zip tie) through the locking mechanism. It had serial numbers on it which were recorded and I suppose included with the bill of lading. I never saw an actual lock, but things might have changed. Terrific video.
Back during the early 2000s we still had jobs with three man crews. Engineer, Conductor and Brakeman. So often you could have one person watch the movement into the clear while the other stayed on the headend and cut the power off. It was so much better then and much more efficient. Now the conductor has to do everything which ends up being a lot of walking and taking so much more time than it did before. But the pencil pushers and number crunchers who cut the brakeman off had no idea what value the position gave and deemed it unnecessary. Also back then before PSR marketing was much more bullish on securing as much business as they could. Now single car business is not sought after and in many cases deliberately priced excessively to get rid of it. They look at everything from maintenance to the track, employee cost, fuel consumption in regards to moving that single car. If the margins are too tight or even at a loss, you can kiss it goodbye. During my career the late 1990s to early to mid 2000s were the best in railroading.
I’m not a professional railroader, but I’m pretty sure most modern EOT receivers in locomotive cabs have a counter on them. The crew can simply press a button to start the counter when the head end rolls by a switch (or any other point like a road crossing, milepost, etc). When the number displayed on the counter reaches the same length as the train, they know the rear of their train has cleared that point.
Also enjoyed the real world example of the variety a team track or any spur can give. I’m modeling a CNW branch that was abandoned in the late 1970’s. A small town grocer in the area told me they had a similar situation where he remembers going with his dad to pick up crates of fruit and other produce off of refrigerator cars. The railroad would just spot the car on a spur in town and local grocers from all around would drive over and get what they had ordered. Kinda cool the same thing is still happening in Miami and on your layout. Thanks for another great video!
There are train length counters in the computers of modern wide cab locos. You would most likely not see one in an old GP. However, they are not connected to the EOT in any way. EOTs connect to a head-end box and tell you two things. Hind end air pressure and if they are in motion or if they are stationary. You can also send a signal to the EOT from the head end to dump the air.
To get the "most accurate" train length we usually start the counter when passing a car inspector looking over the train as we leave a yard and they would call us on the radio as the hind end passed, but this would apply to road freights, not locals. You can also start a counter as you pass a defect detector and when it responds after you pass it you can get "a little less accurate" train length that way, as the detectors don't go off exactly as the last car passes.
A local train would change lengths many times throughout the day as you served various industries. The simplest way to know if you fit on a runaround is to know how many cars the runaround holds and how many cars you are connected to. It's that simple. In the scenario Lance showed here he cut the engine off the train as soon as he cleared the runaround. This would mean that the conductor would be at the head end and the brakeman, if it was a three-man crew would have been at the hind end and let the engineer know that they were in the clear. If it was only a two-man crew you would pull the train up as far as possible to the switch before cutting away.
@@15913Music thanks for the info! Speaking about changing train lengths, I’m sure the answer is probably “it varies,” but in general how often would the conductor update their paperwork to reflect the makeup and length of the train? As each industry is served or just when traveling from one town or location to the next?
@@bkaden1
*in general how often would the conductor update their paperwork to reflect the makeup and length of the train*
yes as each industry is served you mark your workorder accordingly
@TPW900GP35
good comment... yea i did learn the importance of knowing how many cars fit between any two relevant points... not knowing can mess up your switching plans... can also dictate where you eat... being too long for a certain area means you can't dine at your favorite restaurant
@TPW900GP35
*NS road trains have whats called crew packs they bring with them supplied by the
company*
those crew paks every railroad has those (well the UNION railroads do... i don't know if the non-union roads have them)... that came about because of article X of the 1982 national agreement (elimination of the caboose)... the containers of water also came from this (company also has to provide the crews with ICE)... other things that came from this are: refrigerators/ice box, extra seating (comfortable seating with arm rests) an adequate lighting for the condr in the cab of the locomotive... there's also a penalty provision in that article X that allows for 2hrs extra pay for crews who need a caboose but aren't furnished one
Some sage advice and business tactics. I remember using numbered bands to secure doors and receive loaded cars, but that was in the 1970's.
Great moves, love the slow working.. I would have tied down the brakes of scrap hopper when I pulled the 3 reefers. Then when the last reefer is positioned down at the customer, as you say reposition the ETD on the adjacent scrap car, unpin its brakes, head of to the far end of train, get hooked up, pump the air, unpin the brakes on the leading scrap gon. Air test and ready to roll... Challenge is to minimise conductor walking time under the blazing sun, ( never rains in Miami ) so he'll be riding the cars where possible. Excellent video Lance, thank you John P
Thanks John. It's impossible to describe the suffocating heat to somebody that hasn't been there. As a northerner, I almost passed out once...and that was just from walking around with a camera!
I am enjoying your ops video series. I remember photographing a small produce company unloading potatoes from a refrigerated box car that was spotted on the very end of the downtown spur. I observed this same operation several times when I was railfanning the line. It is a great way to model an industry without taking up much space on your layout.
That was a classic photo for the ages Tom
Your videos are so refreshing as is your approach - read your book on operating a modern day switching layout and it always gets me thinking about switching from N to HO.
I'm definitely enjoying watching this . I definitely want to do similar to that on my layout. Your layout I like the design & scenery as well. 👍
Thanks so much!
Really great video! Nice to see some switching which is a little bit different. Like that " team track is wherever the customer is" philosophy.
I want to thank you for taking the time to make and share these videos. The books are good, but having something like this is both entertaining and informative. It’s like when you have a professor who never performs their art for you as a student, they just tell you what to do and what you’re doing wrong.
Very cool! One thing I notice is that the two ends of the runaround are actually some distance apart from each other in real life as the peninsula is in the way. So you have to walk at least some distance when going back and forth on the runaround. I will definitely try to include that in my future Walla Walla WA switching layout.
Love that you are uploading videos of your layouts! I’ve followed your blog for a while, bought books, and scoured the internet for all the media I could find of your layouts.
Thanks! If you haven't seen them, I also have a lot of images on Flickr. For some reason Flickr doesn't often show up in searches.
I model the LIRR, which in its day had literally hundreds of customers in a very small area, most with their own spur. The economics behind the shift to today's track model is extremely complex and reflective of transportation and technology changes throughout the world. It is a wonder that railroads have even survived to today, especially given that they were almost choked to death by the ICC before deregulation. I Love your videos and have many of your books!
Just found your channel. Excited to watch the content. A couple years back you inspired me to go the switching layout route. Loving it.
Fantastic. Great to get an insite.
From several videos I've watched, the conductor disconnects the EOT and tosses it off to the side of the right of way, goes through his switching duties, then retrieves and reconnects the device before moving on to the next job. That's for mainline jobs. Branches and spurs don't require EOTs. Consists are too short, and nothing is coming up behind them without permission.
Thanks but have to disagree on the EOT....at least here. They do use them. Have a few photos somewhere.
On our local CPKC job they just attach a red flag to the rear car.
That was interesting Lance. First time I've seen a modeler drop cars in the middle of nowhere. Lots of possibilities
It was pretty common back then.
Thanks for another great video. Looking at the switch leading to the peninsula, there's got to be some mental gymnastics involved in switching the end of line as well as getting on the head end to drop cars on the peninsula. Very challenging!
Great video series Lance! And a LOT of good information in these comments. Thanks everybody!
Thanks! I agree, the comments have added a lot of needed information and have been great.
With csx we are technically supposed to do a safety stop before coupling in a customer and before fully spotting at a customer. Not always done in practice but it IS in the rulebook.
Thanks for clarifying. I think I'll start using the safety stops.
Awesome video Lance! Love this run. Despite PSR CSX still does this for a couple customers.
You will go down as one of the greatest model builders and operators.
Fantastic layout and operation 👍🏻
Great video and narration .
Superb .... I do however, follow the Ian Futers' school of track planning and thus an very minimalist with 'Sandy Creek'
THIS IS AMAZING.
nice vid... as far as handling the EOT goes... @ 10:49, i would grab it and put it on the engine... then, as lance correctly suggested @ 17:00, hang it on the hind end
Awesome video
Pardon my ignorance in these matters, but when you are pulling the three cars off the end of the train at the runaround (12:20), wouldn't it have been better to let the conductor stand near the switch, pull the entire train back until the third car is at the clearance point, uncouple the cars, and then continue on? That way, the conductor doesn't have to walk the three car lengths to make the cut,
I'd like to see how you construct your buildings. What materials do you use?
All are scratch-built, mostly out of .060" styrene. No kits. On many of them, I glued photos of the actual structures to the sides of styrene cores.
@@LanceMindheim excellent job!!!
Great informative videos. I am enjoying this whole series. I too am interested in learning about the concept of "locked" box cars. How was this done? Were keys involved? In particular long strings of box cars did each one have a lock and key? Thanks for any help on this issue.
@TPW900GP35 Thank you so much for this information. It is very helpful. Dr. Tom.
Great layout and excellent video. A comment and a question: First, from experience, the practice of running a forklift back and forth across streets or roads, while somewhat often done, can be a cheap thrill and not in a good way. Second, could you explain the 3 step protection procedure? How long has this been in use?
"Three Step" is a safety procedure employed by the engineer to ensure he doesn't "squash" a conductor when he goes between cars. "Three Step Protection. Additional protection that is provided prior to employees fouling equipment. This procedure will require the locomotive engineer to apply the train brakes, place the reverser in neutral position, and open generator field switch."
Great video, explaining a lot of questions about things a lot of people miss. Question: When they do a runaround maneuver, does the engineer stay in the same position while going backward?. I'm sure some locomotives have dual control stands, but rarely. Relying on radio messages, the engineer doesn't look out of window,correct ?
Only units I have ever operated with two control stands were some older NW GP40s and SD40s. The Southern Railway control stands were bi directional which were placed more at an angle that allowed the engineer to just look out the back window. A lot of NS units still have the control stands set up this way to make it easier to run long hood forward. But in the case it is not, the engineer has a side mirror that can be used for back up moves allowing the engineer to still face forward but looking at the mirror attached to the side window to see behind.
Thanks Tim. Do you know how the issue of locks on the cars would be handled. I have to think they'd "have" to be locked given the contents. If they are, how does the customer get the key?
@@LanceMindheimcouple of things. On NS there is a minimum of two handbrakes applied and any additional if there is a grade involved. Over time the air brakes will eventually bleed off and if there is not a sufficient number of handbrakes applied the cars could roll away.
Loaded cars are sealed with a thin metal band that has a number associated with the load. Cars that contain valuable shipments will also have an anti theft lock that requires a bolt cutter to remove it.
After removing the EOT a conductor will either lay it on the ground or put it on the locomotive. Once your done switching, you can either use the runaround track to transport it to the rear of the outbound train or if during your switching moves you are at the rear place it then or you could couple to the train, pull the rear up to you, hang it, shove back off the crossings and perform the brake test. If it is just a transfer test traveling less than 20 miles back to the yard all the conductor has to do is walk them on to check for application. Once he reaches the locomotive the engineer can use the EOT to verify the brakes are released on the rear.
@@LanceMindheimmaybe they use similar metal seals that are used on ISO Containers? You need a whacking big bolt cutter to remove it!!
I think you found the answer! Thanks!
OK, I can see how a forklift could unload all the pallets near the door of the reefer, but then what? Do they use the forklift to lift a pallet jack into the car and use that to move the remaining pallets to the doorway for the forklift to remove?
I've never worked a railcar but I have done exactly like you mentioned. I would forklift a pallet jack into a box truck to pull the pallets to the rear and then forklift them out.
I'm not sure about the unloading. I should have watched more closely. The forklifts swarm like hornets in the produce district. They're everywhere...zipping all over the place.
Did PSR throw out a lot of these small 1-2 car customers? Wasn’t that one of the criticisms of PSR?
I suspect it was an economic outcome. Probably expensive for the customer and not worth it for the RR.
Anyone know who makes the forklift model that is at Gerno Produce?
That one is from Wiking. I also have some GHG pewter ones elsewhere on the layout.
Curiosity has me wondering what the number 40 on your fascia denotes near the end of line is?
You're an astute observer Gary! Those are the mile markers. How I tracked those down would be a blog subject on its own!
@@LanceMindheim Curiosity satisfied Lance. Thanks for the reply!
What is the height of your layout. Look right to me. I see so many layouts posted and they look so low they make my back hurt. Lol
Thanks Gary. The layout height is 53 inches. I'm 6'1" tall.
No beer, Diet Pepsi...😊