The gambling industry is a form of class war because the odds are always in favour of the house. My girlfriend is a maths undergrad, and right now it is doing calculations on expected average return based on multiple attempts gambling The gambling industry is set up so that the odds are always in the favour of the gambling industry Most gamblers do not know the mathematics, statistics and probability behind gambling, but the gambling industry is full of extremely knowledgeable technical experts who understand the exact odds and expected return of each game over a long period of time The gambling industry is owned by extremely wealthy businesses who encourage devastating addiction within their addicted gamblers Everything about the gambling industry is set up to extract the most amount of money possible from their users, using all the manipulative psychological, artistic and mathematical techniques they can use to keep users hooked and opening their wallets Go people watching in a place with slot machines You will see a bunch of elderly people and boomers sitting there glassy eyed pumping away their life's work Hypnotised by an incredibly intentionally designed space with all the bright colours, intriguing imagery and suprisal that it takes to keep a person continually engaged in a mindless activity It erodes part of your soul just being in that space and exposed to that parasitic industry, seeing the brainwashed victims swiping their credit cards directly into the pockets of the extremely wealthy It's disgusting
When I use the term “guilty pleasure” it’s not exactly that I’m embarrassed of liking something. I define it as “something I like but don’t know how to defend.”
Or “I like this and can defend it, but the defense is extremely subjective and I’m aware of it” The Fast and Furious series is a guilty pleasure, because I laugh at it - but I don’t have time to frame all the caveats in which it represents my film taste almost to no degree.
@@ghoulish6125 fast and furious is also always the first example I go to. the first one specifically, I have always understood that it’s objectively not a great movie and other car ppl love to hate on it for its absurdity understandably, but I had never cared so little about all that in my life. i’ve always seen it as expressionist idk
i have a friend who shows me music he loves all the time. I don't love it but I've learned i like some musical elements i never would've given a chance. I show him one song and he never gives me the aux again
About classism: I am a Brazilian and here we have a very popular genre of music called funk. It is a genre that was born in favelas and it is responsible for mang people of lower income (or none) to earn a living and better the comunities. And it recieve some critique (usualy with some racism as extra) as some sort of lower genre o that "it is not music" or " not cultured"
24:00 This statement is straight 🔥 Never heard of “coworker music” before; love when you talk about the intersection of class consciousness and music. AAVE prof.
AVAA, you really are one of a kind creator, videos like this really change how I see things. I really appreciate how you always try to find a root cause for certain feelings/behaviours that I’d never give a second thought. Thank you!
Skye- the hits keep coming, another solid take. My band has been arguing for the last year over whether or not we should cover “Down Low,” so this is hella relevant. I’m actually working on a music project that samples your work - but you gotta stop releasing so many quotable cuz I can’t keep up!
Guilt always came off to me as “the feeling you get when you think that someone you love, respect, or fear, would have a problem with your enjoyment of something.” Edit: AVAA
AVAA Skye! I'm not sure if anyone had mentioned it in the comments yet but afaik the -isms for homophobia and transphobia are heterosexism and cissexism. I think the framing of these terms is valuable too because it draws some attention to the relationship between the patriarchy and gender hierarchy, and homophobia/transphobia.
This was a lovely watch Skye! You're partially right about class defining musical taste. I think it's true in snapshots: ie a frame of wealthy people will be listening to classical, and the "lower" class listening to pop, punk, rap etc. However, in my experience as people transition through the classes, they tend to carry their taste with them. I may have discovered Mozart now that I can afford Opera tickets, but I still collect 90s HipHop cassettes from my broke days.
THANK YOU for your take on "coworker music". Just the term itself oozes elitism. It's one of the reasons why, while I'd love to, I don't really take part in discussing music. Especially online it's very elitist and as you pointed out, classist as well.
I always took coworker music for the whole corporate side of art. It's that your coworker is way too happy doing their job listening to their coworker music. Alternatively, the disdain for this type of music actually calls for the canonization of ""unique"" music, as lame as that is. But I interpret that as anything but elitist. More and more people are getting to define what "elevated taste" is. It seems to me more like that people are actually subverting what used to be something largely dictated by the elites.
What a banger. The Professor Skye Philosophy Hour has a lot of value to me. I haven't spent a lot of time considering my own philosophy of aesthetics, so I appreciate both the challenge and the insight.
AVAA! One of my favorite moments from your videos this year was in your review of the Porter Robinson album, specifically when you talk about the end of Russian Roulette as a celebration of tastelessness. Feels like that idea came full circle here, loved the video!
this video reminded me of one of contrapoints’ quotes from the video “opulence”: “I’ve wondered for a long time why I’m so attracted to “bad taste.” Like, I technically have the education to know better. I know about Glenn Gould but I prefer Liberace. Why am I so tacky?” if we look at guilty pleasure that way, then it’s just disbelief in yourself that you COULD enjoy “npc music” or whatever even though you think you are smarter than that
@rolaskatox2828 Not to mention "Education" in this context is actually "indoctrination into the tastes and biases of the cultural elite" and nothing more than that.
i know that music is your main thing but man I love these videoes too. i wish i knew about your channel when i was still in school and had french, i might've been a little more motivated...
since finals week has ended (for me anyway) i just want to truly thank you for these videos, they really helped pass the time when studying or working on essays.
AVAA, one of my favorite commentators Spectrum Pulse has a great video essay about that link between class and taste, and puts it in the context of the 20/20 Experience by Justin Timberlake, really interesting stuff
Fab video! There is so much to be conflicted about in life, it can seem exhausting and confusing. But figuring it all out means that either one has massive brain, is full of lies or insane, so I suppose there is some solace in being "conflicted" about the many ideals.
DENTAL PLAN! LISA NEEDS BRACES! My favorite video you've made. Been reading a lotta Jean Renoir interviews lately for a La Regle du Jeu screening I had to introduce, and he said the core of his work comes from exploring the paradoxes and contradictions of people and relationships. Seeing Boudu Sauvé des Eaux after that blew my mind because I think that film is one of the greatest explorations of class, contradictions, and behavior in relation to that I've ever seen (along with Abigail's Party, because what does it mean to put red wine in the fridge?). To then see this video just clicked all these thoughts floating around in my brain together. Thank you so much for this, AVAA
Thank you so much for this! You said everything I’ve been feeling and thinking around whether it’s okay to listen to certain artists despite their wrongdoings in their life outside of art. It goes hand in hand with the “separate the art from the artist” argument people always like to bring up. Wish you ended the video with your best KDot “I remember you was conflicted.” 😂 AVAA
#AVAA Unc packed so much things that’s been on my mind that I couldn’t quite put into cohesive words, it’s hard to explain this to people in w quick and digestible way without at least sounding like a Twitter think piece merchant who just spout buzzwords and sound so annoying you almost want to disagree with them despite agreeing with them. But prof delivered it in a way that feels organic, I hope to be able to send this video to some people in the future. I hope you definitely talk more about stuff like this outside of music, especially cinema.
That stuff about culture as a boat on the social river (sic) was brilliant, AVAA EDIT: my opinion on the main point of the vid is that you said "ignition remix" and the entire song played in my head thru
I have another taste 'ism' to submit: youthism. using taste as a symbol of one's own maturity. I missed out on Twenty One Pilots because the groups of people that listened to it weren't my people, and so I grew up kinda disregarding it as a symbol of "those kinds of people". Well, two years ago I watched them open for The Killers and walked away an instant fan. They've been on my own top 5 since then. They're really very good. And they're good because their main theme is "it really sucks to exist inside a head sometimes", which is as close to an universally relatable theme as you can work with in 2024, and they're very open and vulnerable about it, they don't hide it under subterfuge, they're not afraid to seem uncouth, they don't care, and why should they? To adhere to social standards? Whom do these standards serve? Who profits when we're not honest about our feelings? But people dismiss them, as I once did, and the only reason I can think for that is that they're closely associated to young people, at least here in Brazil. People think liking things associated with adulthood makes them adults, while of course being actually incredibly immature in many other facets of their lives. With regards to "coworker music", I agree it's a deeply despicable term. There's no shame in being what some call "basic". However, a very specific sense of taste keeps surfacing, relating specifically to mainstream stuff. Consider how people went and are still going to bat for Drake. There are people under that mos def video on twitter saying Def has no right to opine in this situation because he hasn't charted in forever. As if being on charts is the end all be all of authority and validity. It's baffling, and it makes one wonder what drives somebody to *defend* their mainstream taste in such virulent ways. And the only reason I can imagine is that, upon maturing and discovering the wide variety of things available to listen to, or watch, or read, or become interested in in general, some people figure out what they like, and some people figure out what they *should* like. And the second group defines their choices in order to fit in. It's Norman Bates all over again every time. They want to "fit in" because they want to be normal. They were either born into the Normal Club, lucked into it as they grew up, or think they can be welcomed into it if they work hard enough, and liking "normal" things is a part of that work. The definition of that "normal" is usually extracted from some ranking of success, be it music charts, or stats (for sports players), or box office, and all three of those might also hinge on critical acclaim. And that's a taste I have no problem critiquing, not only because it is insincere, but because these Normalcy Militants will lash out whenever the definition of Normal is threatened, because their biggest fear is, to quote grandpa Simpson, no longer being "with it", and "it" becomeing something that scares them. They can only see society in terms of hierarchies - they don't believe it could ever be otherwise - and they are terrified that one day they'll wake up to figure out their shape has been relegated to the bottom of the pyramid, because they also don't think they can change. I don't care for Arbitrary Hierarchy Enforcers. They often make good people feel unsafe and welcome for bot fitting in.
thank you professor skye for providing me with the philosophical/analytical ammunition I need when people sneer at me for unironically loving eurovision, AVAA!
Great points. AVAA. I just want to add that the Danana-nana-hey Sports song you mentioned was the official goal song for the Colorado Avalanche for years, and they promptly dropped it when the [PDF file] information came out, and this lore constantly has to be explained to older generations when they talk about missing "the way it was before". I think it's a fascinating example of corporations establishing cultural morals.
Love the vid. On your point about turning on Pulp Fiction; taste is a rabbithole. Its never bad to understand the context and lineage of what you like, the problem comes when you weaponize that trying to elevate your status by eay of superior taste. Being educated on the things you like is cool, being a pretentious asshole about it sucks. That said i dont care if it makes me a prick i will never stop looking down on the marvel movies and similiar corporate slop
I absolutely get what you are talking about when it comes to cultural capital I am poor as fuck But I have so much cultural capital I'm obsessed with historic ornamental architecture, historical architecture, Japanese joinery, complex carpentry joints I am obsessed with the fashions that wealthy people would adorn their buildings with in past ages, and I'm taking a course on furniture design/manufacturing, and then I'll do a house building carpentry apprenticeship I have so much cultural capital, and I can see how much of wealthy people's taste is dogshit, the things they consume are largely low quality and low effort, due to the near extinction of artisans from the economy And I'm left in this weird position, where I'm a socialist, but I'm obsessed with designing and manufacturing extremely refined objects of the sort that the super wealthy covet. I am so engaged with the history of ornamental patterns and designs that I can easily become a taste maker And I have to think about how I am going to get a business started manufacturing extremely beautiful and high quality parquetry floors (wood floors composed of geometric tiling patterns), and how I'll probably need to brush shoulders with the psychopaths making housing unaffordable for my fellow poor people And because of my massive interest in architectural ornamental patterns, I will in effect end up adorning these wealthy people's properties with class and culture that does not belong to them in any way other than as their consumption. I'm going to have to go to construction industry conferences, real estate investment conferences, have my little booth and show off my fancy ornamental designs. Me sitting there absolutely drowning in cultural capital and skill as a craftsperson, while the rich people who covet my designs are so dissasociated from the culture of historical ornament because modernists declared "Ornament is a Crime". The wealthy don't engage in my obsession with historic ornamental architecture other than as tourists jet setting around the world to look at fancy buildings preserved as tourist traps Modernism is a form of class war against the middle class appropriating architectural decoration. That is the reason the architectural establishment destroyed the profession of artisinal craftsmen in the construction industry. During the late 19th early 20th C the middle classes and new rich were adorning their houses with neoclassical ornament in bad taste Because carpenters would read architectural pattern books, which would teach those carpenters how to manufacture neoclassical ornament, but not how to use neoclassical ornament in a harmonious way with the building My architectural decorations will end up making some over priced AirBnB even more overpriced because some influencers will love showing off my fancy floors, my craft will be used to inflate the value of people's investment properties by adorning them with cool patterns and designs Cultural capital isn't just about cultural knowledge. It's about consuming culture in the right way to prove that you deserve your position in the social/economic hierarchy. I'm convinced that so much of the history of art is about the extremely wealthy trying to prove to themselves and others that they deserve all their power and wealth, because they like reading Homer, listening to refined music, looking at art that references mythological tales If a peasant had an extreme amount of money, they'd consume thinks in an unrefined, unworthy way Leonardo DaVinci's overflowing cultural capital was coveted by the rich during his time, commissioning him to paint portraits of wealthy patrons so they could adorn their lives with the most ego aggrandising objects it is possible to display to your peers of ultra wealthy oligarchs. Artists and craftspeople are consumed by their patrons, and I'm not sure how to navigate the market I am entering so my craft can be a living art in the lives of ordinary people, without just capitulating to the ultra wealthy, making my designs and works as exclusive and expensive as I possibly can. I kind of want to break the market of cultural capital, by mass producing ornament of a higher quality and taste than is available anywhere else in the market, but mass producing that stuff out of recycled offcuts of construction materials, and making my high culture accessible and available to anyone who can afford to build or renovate a house. By setting up a cooperatively owned democratic workplace, where value is not extracted for the capitalist class at the expense of the quality of the craft, or the wellbeing of the crafts people and workers
AAVA. The point at 7:30 made me immediately think of the new Roc Marciano album where he used that annoying audio clip from Jordan Peterson talking about people having “bad taste”.
AVAA I find this to be interesting when paired with CJ the X's video on Jordan Peterson and his many MANY questionable suits. I think when people discuss taste, a lot of it has to do with "aesthetic." This idea that this artist or band does not match my aura, or how I envision myself, is somehow wrong on any substantial level. I know I find myself in similar spaces when discussing music with friends that I find myself disagreeing with. But most of it is interpreting wavy lines of sound until we start getting into discussions over ethics because music is such a difficult medium to criticize. I like the idea of "conflicted" rather than "guilty" because the listeners are not complicit in the artists' actions.
Funny that you mention Closed on Sunday, as it is a song that I would previously consider a guilty pleasure ( now only a pleasure riddled in guilt .. ). AVAA Prof
AVAA. I was delighted to see this in my recommended. It was a line that stood out to me in your previous video and I meant to write it down but forgot. This time, I had a note-taking document up and wrote some stuff down because this is fascinating! It perhaps goes without saying but I'd include ableism too. So many Autistic and neurodivergent individuals are made fun of for having "cringe" and/or childlike interests and for what reason? I'm not sure myself. Surely it relates to this in some way. Something about not being allowed to be playful as an adult? Anyway, I'm rambling now. Thanks for the video :)
I've never heard of "coworker music" before, but it sure makes me think about how socialism and trade unionism are dressed as guilty pleasures, as the working classes are encoded to show contempt for each other's compartmentalised desires and tastes, in order to make us divided rather than work as a team against the oppressive powers above us.
As someone getting ready to start a podcast on cheap stories like these, this is absolutely what I both needed to hear and needed to be reminded of. Feel like I'm back in college in the best way possible. AVAA. Also wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts, if any, on the song Otonoke by Creepy Nuts (the opening song for the anime Dan Da Dan), which, even though I was late to it, made me put GNX down for a few days just to listen to that song on repeat.
Okay can’t wait for this one so a guilty pleasure isn’t a vice, like I would say some of my love a true crime is a vice, this kind of media is toxic and I like for toxic reasons shouldn’t I stop watching this media?
The concept of a guilty pleasure can apply to any media, and that's mainly what he's talking about. He's just framing it through music specifically because that's what his channel is about. @maps_x
when i think of music i would call my guilty pleasure the slip by nine inch nails comes to mind. its not becouse i think its bad, more that it feals a bit suffice level. its like candy. it taste good but it dosent feal as rewarding to consume as a full meal. i think when im listen to that album im conflicted becouse i could spend my time better listening to something i would get more out of.
AVAA! Got me thinking about just how differently I feel about some of the artists mentioned in the video, and this may be a long comment but if ya get to the end maybe this could shed light on you feeling differently about a chappell vs. an r. Kelly. Off the top of my head Id have 3 categories, the R.Kelly, the Vaugner, and the Kanye R. Kelly represents when the art isn't really engaging with the area of moral conflict. You listen to R. Kelly for a good time and to me that's fine, but what isn't fine is forgetting or denying what he's done. The danger lies in the fact that the art is so easily separated from the artist and the art is probably best enjoyed if you forget about the artist and 5 years of enjoying r.kellys music without thinking about r.kelly and all of the sudden we got some harmful mass amnesia. This is where it's like if you can enjoy the football game while listening to your wife explain the psychological problems of it then enjoy the football game! But the experience probably won't be the same and if you can't enjoy the football game under those circumstances then you're better off turning off the game than getting mad at her for contextualizing it. Wagner to me feels like an example of a fascist making art that embodies fascism. Now we are in the realm where you still could separate the art from the artist, but it might not change much cause the conflict is arising from ideas conveyed in the art. The flip side of that is that an especially good example of this kind of art can simultaneously wrap you up in the feeling it conveys, while helping you understand the appeal of an awful idea AND revealing it's darkness all at once. When I listen to ride of the Valkyrie I feel the rush of the powerful conquering general and the terror of the peasant who's village was just turned to ash. But it's likely that I only read so much into a instrumental piece of music BECAUSE I know Wagner is pretty fasci, and that piece has been used in those kinds of ways in so much media. I think there's a lot to be gotten from this kind of art but it might be the most dangerous kind, as it includes most of the music that fires up teenage boys at the recruitment office. Beautiful art about bad ideas can tell us a lot about humanity itself, it can teach us the motivating emotions behind those bad ideas, but it often still serves those bad ideas as intended. Then we have Kanye. I can't think of many other artists in the Kanye category off the top of my head, and sometimes Kanye's work might fit into the other 2 better. But to me Kanye represents when there is no separating the art from the artist. The art is so explicitly in conversation with the artist's life, headspace, random thoughts, and even in conversation with the public's conversation about the artist that you probably won't get as much from the art without some awareness of the controversy surrounding the artist. While R. Kelly is best enjoyed by forgetting about his actions, Kanye's music at its best won't let you forget about his controversies cause he's addressing it directly. It stays compelling even when you object to what he's saying because on plenty of occasions there's a part of him that is objecting right along with you. There's a vulnerability to a good Kanye album where he's just laying all his own inner conflict out there to be dissected, and he's done that so much that even when he doesn't sound conflicted about what he's saying I'm tempted to infer it anyways. To me the Kanye style of conflicted listening has the most to offer since the conflict is so often baked into the art itself. I don't know where Chappelle lies in this, but I know he isn't in the R. Kelly category, and for me at least it's always easier to engage with an objectionable artist when it's the art itself that is objectionable. Then it at least feels like critical engagement as opposed to cognitive dissonance. Which also speaks to the difference between people who are condemned for their actions vs. those who are condemned for their ideas. Actions feel much easier for me to judge someone for, but that's not to say ideas and words are harmless, the capacity is there for someone expressing bad ideas compellingly to cause harm on a much larger scale than any individual's actions ever could. But ideas are also squishier than actions, like If you SA someone then I fundamentally don't trust your moral compass, but I know plenty of good people who ascribe to bad ideas and I'm much more likely to love the sinner and hate the sin. Plus ideas take more time and momentum to really start doing harm and if someone just fell into following a bad idea and abandons it before those ideas turned to actions that's a whole lot different then doing something horrendous and then saying your sorry.
Hey professor, your reviews are really insightful and introspective. I've been following your channel for a while, and your perspectives made me understand myself and my taste way better, so thank you. When you have a little bit of time to spare, please listen to Dysocjacja by Exodus1900, I think the album is really good, and it has a unique flavor and rhythm that's really memorable. Just like other music you reviewed, this album was an acquired taste for me, going from "I don't know if I like it", to "it's allright" and then to "this music is really really good", so keep that in mind. I would really like to hear your thoughts on it. Even if it is just a reply to this comment.
If only there was a term for when you're conflicted about something that you are doing and you enjoy it, but feel like you shouldn't. If only there was a word for that.
I thought I’d decided that given i had always listened to the artists and the music is something apart from them personally, it’s somehow something I own in a sense and so I would continue to listen to MJ and JZ among others but in reality the conflict is too much. Turns out it’s not a choice apparently,. Which is difficult to come to terms with if you like to think you can always reason with yourself. possibly, can you reason with your heart, probably not …
AVAA! I think that something like that tarantino-godard-monogram path of snobbery is a necessary part of getting to that understanding. Maybe not fundamentally necessary, but given, yknow, everything, I think environments that create a person who intrinsically understands the system behind the concept “having taste” = “being distinguished” are rare. I think it’s difficult to view that line or hierarchy of snobbery as a web and an artistic ecosystem until you map enough of it in your head. Leaving the associations of power behind is the more complicated and difficult part though.
It’s the old ‘don’t put me in a box’ box … This morning my neighbours and i have already enjoyed listening to Madonna, Wiley, Van Morrison and Ray Vaughn ( the rapper, I’d never be caught listening to the other ray, obviously how embarrassing…. ) lol
Hegel en la dialectiva del Amo y El Esclavo hace una referencia a distinguirse como el motor que lleva a una batalla a muerte porque todos queremos ser reconocidos
That's probably one of the best videos about how we view art, I have ever seen. I have one question though, or maybe a video idea, do you think one can separate art from artist? Thank you for your videos, peace out ✌️
Hi professor Skye, AVAA. Would you talk more about movies in your videos, maybe create a different channel or something like that. It would be awesome to hear your opinions on different movies, old and new.
great video skye, i agree that liking death grips makes me a good person.
Beyond taste is fullness, satiety
Why hasn't he talked about them yet??????
Ro appearance!
Whenever you said conflicted I kept hearing “I remember you was conflicted” in my head
(Was kinda intentional! 😀)
Misusing your influence
Sometimes i did the same
@@ryelo5448abusing my power full of resentment
Abusing my power, full of resentment
"Once I like it, it's good" is solid. 10/10
I support Professor Skye supporting worker solidarity and destroying the idea of co-worker music. It really is a term of contempt
It’s never a guilty pleasure until the person you’re with in the room doesn’t like it.
We need a video essay about why betting is a class war! Youve mentioned it numerous times and it stuck with me would love to hear your reasoning
@@MarcoMalfario I second this
The gambling industry is a form of class war because the odds are always in favour of the house.
My girlfriend is a maths undergrad, and right now it is doing calculations on expected average return based on multiple attempts gambling
The gambling industry is set up so that the odds are always in the favour of the gambling industry
Most gamblers do not know the mathematics, statistics and probability behind gambling, but the gambling industry is full of extremely knowledgeable technical experts who understand the exact odds and expected return of each game over a long period of time
The gambling industry is owned by extremely wealthy businesses who encourage devastating addiction within their addicted gamblers
Everything about the gambling industry is set up to extract the most amount of money possible from their users, using all the manipulative psychological, artistic and mathematical techniques they can use to keep users hooked and opening their wallets
Go people watching in a place with slot machines
You will see a bunch of elderly people and boomers sitting there glassy eyed pumping away their life's work
Hypnotised by an incredibly intentionally designed space with all the bright colours, intriguing imagery and suprisal that it takes to keep a person continually engaged in a mindless activity
It erodes part of your soul just being in that space and exposed to that parasitic industry, seeing the brainwashed victims swiping their credit cards directly into the pockets of the extremely wealthy
It's disgusting
Prof Skye really said "CRINGE IS DEAD!!!!!"
This felt personal. I love when you really get deep into philosophical and social issues. Would love more of this 🤞🏽
"I think it's great that you don't know how cliché that is" the best way to call someone Basic 😂.
I immediately heard "I remember you was conflicted" seeing this video in my notifications lol.
😂😂😂😂😂 I definitely had a similar experience
“Go home and play soulsbourne” GAH MY HEART 💥 💔AVAA
It's time for astrobot 💪💪💪
AVAA tapping into the video game fanbase with the soulsborne comment was so funny to me
fr it was so out of left field but entirely perfect AVAA
When I use the term “guilty pleasure” it’s not exactly that I’m embarrassed of liking something. I define it as “something I like but don’t know how to defend.”
Or “I like this and can defend it, but the defense is extremely subjective and I’m aware of it” The Fast and Furious series is a guilty pleasure, because I laugh at it - but I don’t have time to frame all the caveats in which it represents my film taste almost to no degree.
but you can somehow verbalise why you like it, is that not enough of a defence in itself?
@@ghoulish6125 fast and furious is also always the first example I go to. the first one specifically, I have always understood that it’s objectively not a great movie and other car ppl love to hate on it for its absurdity understandably, but I had never cared so little about all that in my life. i’ve always seen it as expressionist idk
@@ForgBorger [DANGER TO MANIFOLD] is high art
@@ForgBorger I mean it's a piece of fiction,i think demanding it to be accurate to real cars is a little ridiculous.
i have a friend who shows me music he loves all the time. I don't love it but I've learned i like some musical elements i never would've given a chance. I show him one song and he never gives me the aux again
we all have a friend like that. mine's my brother 😢
Friends like that are so annoying. They take music way too serious. Music is just noise
Good on you though you're learning and growing!
About classism: I am a Brazilian and here we have a very popular genre of music called funk. It is a genre that was born in favelas and it is responsible for mang people of lower income (or none) to earn a living and better the comunities. And it recieve some critique (usualy with some racism as extra) as some sort of lower genre o that "it is not music" or " not cultured"
same was said about rap and hip hop, and earlier even jazz
and now its receiving more cultural class now that white western producers are appropriating the sound its wild
Classism/culture are inherently racist, narrow-minded and morally bankrupt. That's why.
24:00 This statement is straight 🔥
Never heard of “coworker music” before; love when you talk about the intersection of class consciousness and music. AAVE prof.
Like the delineation between 'taste' and 'morals' in this, made me think. AVAA!
AVAA, you really are one of a kind creator, videos like this really change how I see things. I really appreciate how you always try to find a root cause for certain feelings/behaviours that I’d never give a second thought. Thank you!
AVAA, the only guilty pleasure i ever had was eating glue
Skye- the hits keep coming, another solid take. My band has been arguing for the last year over whether or not we should cover “Down Low,” so this is hella relevant.
I’m actually working on a music project that samples your work - but you gotta stop releasing so many quotable cuz I can’t keep up!
Guilt always came off to me as “the feeling you get when you think that someone you love, respect, or fear, would have a problem with your enjoyment of something.”
Edit: AVAA
AVAA Skye! I'm not sure if anyone had mentioned it in the comments yet but afaik the -isms for homophobia and transphobia are heterosexism and cissexism. I think the framing of these terms is valuable too because it draws some attention to the relationship between the patriarchy and gender hierarchy, and homophobia/transphobia.
This was a lovely watch Skye! You're partially right about class defining musical taste. I think it's true in snapshots: ie a frame of wealthy people will be listening to classical, and the "lower" class listening to pop, punk, rap etc. However, in my experience as people transition through the classes, they tend to carry their taste with them.
I may have discovered Mozart now that I can afford Opera tickets, but I still collect 90s HipHop cassettes from my broke days.
so you're saying having no shame will make me better than other music fans. thank you, loophole!
THANK YOU for your take on "coworker music". Just the term itself oozes elitism. It's one of the reasons why, while I'd love to, I don't really take part in discussing music. Especially online it's very elitist and as you pointed out, classist as well.
I always took coworker music for the whole corporate side of art. It's that your coworker is way too happy doing their job listening to their coworker music.
Alternatively, the disdain for this type of music actually calls for the canonization of ""unique"" music, as lame as that is. But I interpret that as anything but elitist. More and more people are getting to define what "elevated taste" is. It seems to me more like that people are actually subverting what used to be something largely dictated by the elites.
24:35 “go home and play soulsborn” is the best insult ive heard all year thank you
What a banger. The Professor Skye Philosophy Hour has a lot of value to me. I haven't spent a lot of time considering my own philosophy of aesthetics, so I appreciate both the challenge and the insight.
AVAA! One of my favorite moments from your videos this year was in your review of the Porter Robinson album, specifically when you talk about the end of Russian Roulette as a celebration of tastelessness. Feels like that idea came full circle here, loved the video!
AAVA! 4:11 I love the image of Prof. Skye begrudgingly bobbing his head at a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert. 😂
We like hearing you talk! U are incredibly intelligent and I am now thinking twice before ever calling something a "guilty pleasure". AVAA🎉
this video reminded me of one of contrapoints’ quotes from the video “opulence”:
“I’ve wondered for a long time why I’m so attracted to “bad taste.” Like, I technically have the education to know better. I know about Glenn Gould but I prefer Liberace. Why am I so tacky?”
if we look at guilty pleasure that way, then it’s just disbelief in yourself that you COULD enjoy “npc music” or whatever even though you think you are smarter than that
RYMcore is real NPC music
@rolaskatox2828 Not to mention "Education" in this context is actually "indoctrination into the tastes and biases of the cultural elite" and nothing more than that.
AVAA, i have horrible taste and no one can stop me.
i know that music is your main thing but man I love these videoes too.
i wish i knew about your channel when i was still in school and had french, i might've been a little more motivated...
since finals week has ended (for me anyway) i just want to truly thank you for these videos, they really helped pass the time when studying or working on essays.
I heard you was conflicted. Phenomenal video, really has me reexamining the lines ive drawn for myself as it relates to the media i consume
You blew my mind with this one multiple times over! Loved every connection made! Thank you for a great Friday night.
I have nothing else to say but I really needed this, and is quite possibly the best video essay I've ever watched (imo of course)
AVAA, one of my favorite commentators Spectrum Pulse has a great video essay about that link between class and taste, and puts it in the context of the 20/20 Experience by Justin Timberlake, really interesting stuff
SPECTRUM PULSE MENTIONED🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥
but srsly his essays are so well done they really do deserve more attention
Fab video! There is so much to be conflicted about in life, it can seem exhausting and confusing. But figuring it all out means that either one has massive brain, is full of lies or insane, so I suppose there is some solace in being "conflicted" about the many ideals.
DENTAL PLAN! LISA NEEDS BRACES!
My favorite video you've made. Been reading a lotta Jean Renoir interviews lately for a La Regle du Jeu screening I had to introduce, and he said the core of his work comes from exploring the paradoxes and contradictions of people and relationships. Seeing Boudu Sauvé des Eaux after that blew my mind because I think that film is one of the greatest explorations of class, contradictions, and behavior in relation to that I've ever seen (along with Abigail's Party, because what does it mean to put red wine in the fridge?). To then see this video just clicked all these thoughts floating around in my brain together.
Thank you so much for this, AVAA
you cooked with this one unc skye this vid needs to be shown to everyone Avaa
Thank you so much for this! You said everything I’ve been feeling and thinking around whether it’s okay to listen to certain artists despite their wrongdoings in their life outside of art. It goes hand in hand with the “separate the art from the artist” argument people always like to bring up. Wish you ended the video with your best KDot “I remember you was conflicted.” 😂 AVAA
This video was in my auto queue and I would not have watched it based on the thumbnail, but it's one of the best videos I've seen from you Professor.
#AVAA
Unc packed so much things that’s been on my mind that I couldn’t quite put into cohesive words, it’s hard to explain this to people in w quick and digestible way without at least sounding like a Twitter think piece merchant who just spout buzzwords and sound so annoying you almost want to disagree with them despite agreeing with them. But prof delivered it in a way that feels organic, I hope to be able to send this video to some people in the future. I hope you definitely talk more about stuff like this outside of music, especially cinema.
AVAA, I needed a video like this, ty professor Skye! love from Brasil!
AVAA
That stuff about culture as a boat on the social river (sic) was brilliant, AVAA
EDIT: my opinion on the main point of the vid is that you said "ignition remix" and the entire song played in my head thru
I have another taste 'ism' to submit: youthism. using taste as a symbol of one's own maturity. I missed out on Twenty One Pilots because the groups of people that listened to it weren't my people, and so I grew up kinda disregarding it as a symbol of "those kinds of people". Well, two years ago I watched them open for The Killers and walked away an instant fan. They've been on my own top 5 since then. They're really very good. And they're good because their main theme is "it really sucks to exist inside a head sometimes", which is as close to an universally relatable theme as you can work with in 2024, and they're very open and vulnerable about it, they don't hide it under subterfuge, they're not afraid to seem uncouth, they don't care, and why should they? To adhere to social standards? Whom do these standards serve? Who profits when we're not honest about our feelings? But people dismiss them, as I once did, and the only reason I can think for that is that they're closely associated to young people, at least here in Brazil. People think liking things associated with adulthood makes them adults, while of course being actually incredibly immature in many other facets of their lives.
With regards to "coworker music", I agree it's a deeply despicable term. There's no shame in being what some call "basic". However, a very specific sense of taste keeps surfacing, relating specifically to mainstream stuff. Consider how people went and are still going to bat for Drake. There are people under that mos def video on twitter saying Def has no right to opine in this situation because he hasn't charted in forever. As if being on charts is the end all be all of authority and validity. It's baffling, and it makes one wonder what drives somebody to *defend* their mainstream taste in such virulent ways. And the only reason I can imagine is that, upon maturing and discovering the wide variety of things available to listen to, or watch, or read, or become interested in in general, some people figure out what they like, and some people figure out what they *should* like. And the second group defines their choices in order to fit in. It's Norman Bates all over again every time. They want to "fit in" because they want to be normal. They were either born into the Normal Club, lucked into it as they grew up, or think they can be welcomed into it if they work hard enough, and liking "normal" things is a part of that work. The definition of that "normal" is usually extracted from some ranking of success, be it music charts, or stats (for sports players), or box office, and all three of those might also hinge on critical acclaim. And that's a taste I have no problem critiquing, not only because it is insincere, but because these Normalcy Militants will lash out whenever the definition of Normal is threatened, because their biggest fear is, to quote grandpa Simpson, no longer being "with it", and "it" becomeing something that scares them. They can only see society in terms of hierarchies - they don't believe it could ever be otherwise - and they are terrified that one day they'll wake up to figure out their shape has been relegated to the bottom of the pyramid, because they also don't think they can change. I don't care for Arbitrary Hierarchy Enforcers. They often make good people feel unsafe and welcome for bot fitting in.
thank you professor skye for providing me with the philosophical/analytical ammunition I need when people sneer at me for unironically loving eurovision, AVAA!
Great points. AVAA.
I just want to add that the Danana-nana-hey Sports song you mentioned was the official goal song for the Colorado Avalanche for years, and they promptly dropped it when the [PDF file] information came out, and this lore constantly has to be explained to older generations when they talk about missing "the way it was before". I think it's a fascinating example of corporations establishing cultural morals.
Love the vid. On your point about turning on Pulp Fiction; taste is a rabbithole. Its never bad to understand the context and lineage of what you like, the problem comes when you weaponize that trying to elevate your status by eay of superior taste. Being educated on the things you like is cool, being a pretentious asshole about it sucks.
That said i dont care if it makes me a prick i will never stop looking down on the marvel movies and similiar corporate slop
AVAA
Keep doing amazing work!
What your father said about your Beethoven purchase is the punchline of the year for me.
Just commenting halfway through to say I'd absolutely love to see you talk to CJ the X about art! Would be an incredible conversation
I absolutely get what you are talking about when it comes to cultural capital
I am poor as fuck
But I have so much cultural capital
I'm obsessed with historic ornamental architecture, historical architecture, Japanese joinery, complex carpentry joints
I am obsessed with the fashions that wealthy people would adorn their buildings with in past ages, and I'm taking a course on furniture design/manufacturing, and then I'll do a house building carpentry apprenticeship
I have so much cultural capital, and I can see how much of wealthy people's taste is dogshit, the things they consume are largely low quality and low effort, due to the near extinction of artisans from the economy
And I'm left in this weird position, where I'm a socialist, but I'm obsessed with designing and manufacturing extremely refined objects of the sort that the super wealthy covet.
I am so engaged with the history of ornamental patterns and designs that I can easily become a taste maker
And I have to think about how I am going to get a business started manufacturing extremely beautiful and high quality parquetry floors (wood floors composed of geometric tiling patterns), and how I'll probably need to brush shoulders with the psychopaths making housing unaffordable for my fellow poor people
And because of my massive interest in architectural ornamental patterns, I will in effect end up adorning these wealthy people's properties with class and culture that does not belong to them in any way other than as their consumption.
I'm going to have to go to construction industry conferences, real estate investment conferences, have my little booth and show off my fancy ornamental designs.
Me sitting there absolutely drowning in cultural capital and skill as a craftsperson, while the rich people who covet my designs are so dissasociated from the culture of historical ornament because modernists declared "Ornament is a Crime".
The wealthy don't engage in my obsession with historic ornamental architecture other than as tourists jet setting around the world to look at fancy buildings preserved as tourist traps
Modernism is a form of class war against the middle class appropriating architectural decoration. That is the reason the architectural establishment destroyed the profession of artisinal craftsmen in the construction industry.
During the late 19th early 20th C the middle classes and new rich were adorning their houses with neoclassical ornament in bad taste
Because carpenters would read architectural pattern books, which would teach those carpenters how to manufacture neoclassical ornament, but not how to use neoclassical ornament in a harmonious way with the building
My architectural decorations will end up making some over priced AirBnB even more overpriced because some influencers will love showing off my fancy floors, my craft will be used to inflate the value of people's investment properties by adorning them with cool patterns and designs
Cultural capital isn't just about cultural knowledge.
It's about consuming culture in the right way to prove that you deserve your position in the social/economic hierarchy.
I'm convinced that so much of the history of art is about the extremely wealthy trying to prove to themselves and others that they deserve all their power and wealth, because they like reading Homer, listening to refined music, looking at art that references mythological tales
If a peasant had an extreme amount of money, they'd consume thinks in an unrefined, unworthy way
Leonardo DaVinci's overflowing cultural capital was coveted by the rich during his time, commissioning him to paint portraits of wealthy patrons so they could adorn their lives with the most ego aggrandising objects it is possible to display to your peers of ultra wealthy oligarchs.
Artists and craftspeople are consumed by their patrons, and I'm not sure how to navigate the market I am entering so my craft can be a living art in the lives of ordinary people, without just capitulating to the ultra wealthy, making my designs and works as exclusive and expensive as I possibly can.
I kind of want to break the market of cultural capital, by mass producing ornament of a higher quality and taste than is available anywhere else in the market, but mass producing that stuff out of recycled offcuts of construction materials, and making my high culture accessible and available to anyone who can afford to build or renovate a house.
By setting up a cooperatively owned democratic workplace, where value is not extracted for the capitalist class at the expense of the quality of the craft, or the wellbeing of the crafts people and workers
Fascinating
good luck!
Talk to ‘em professor Skye!
"I deserve to love it ALL!" Loved the reference and loved the sentiment. AVAA
AVAA. As a guy who likes death grips and works at PwC - I did not expected to be clocked that hard today.
AAVA. The point at 7:30 made me immediately think of the new Roc Marciano album where he used that annoying audio clip from Jordan Peterson talking about people having “bad taste”.
What the hell, nah bro tell me that isn't something he actually did lol
AVAA I find this to be interesting when paired with CJ the X's video on Jordan Peterson and his many MANY questionable suits. I think when people discuss taste, a lot of it has to do with "aesthetic." This idea that this artist or band does not match my aura, or how I envision myself, is somehow wrong on any substantial level. I know I find myself in similar spaces when discussing music with friends that I find myself disagreeing with. But most of it is interpreting wavy lines of sound until we start getting into discussions over ethics because music is such a difficult medium to criticize. I like the idea of "conflicted" rather than "guilty" because the listeners are not complicit in the artists' actions.
Funny that you mention Closed on Sunday, as it is a song that I would previously consider a guilty pleasure ( now only a pleasure riddled in guilt .. ). AVAA Prof
AVAA. I was delighted to see this in my recommended. It was a line that stood out to me in your previous video and I meant to write it down but forgot. This time, I had a note-taking document up and wrote some stuff down because this is fascinating! It perhaps goes without saying but I'd include ableism too. So many Autistic and neurodivergent individuals are made fun of for having "cringe" and/or childlike interests and for what reason? I'm not sure myself. Surely it relates to this in some way. Something about not being allowed to be playful as an adult? Anyway, I'm rambling now. Thanks for the video :)
I've never heard of "coworker music" before, but it sure makes me think about how socialism and trade unionism are dressed as guilty pleasures, as the working classes are encoded to show contempt for each other's compartmentalised desires and tastes, in order to make us divided rather than work as a team against the oppressive powers above us.
AVAA, that coworker music bit was incredible, im gonna be using that
OMG the final question "Why do I believe that?" opened my mind. To avoid inner conflict people get craaazy mad (like deny reality)
AVAA! I am in PhD school studying about social class in organizations. Pierre Bourdieu plays a huge role in my field. Thank you!
Oh my god… I didn’t know i was getting the best sermon i heard in 2024
I've been saying this for years. If you like it, it means you think it's good.
i listened to over 800 hours of Taylor Swift.
18:34 Hererosexist maybe is the word you were thinking of. Great video as always
As someone getting ready to start a podcast on cheap stories like these, this is absolutely what I both needed to hear and needed to be reminded of. Feel like I'm back in college in the best way possible. AVAA.
Also wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts, if any, on the song Otonoke by Creepy Nuts (the opening song for the anime Dan Da Dan), which, even though I was late to it, made me put GNX down for a few days just to listen to that song on repeat.
AVAA I would love to have had you as professor cause I would have looked forward to class to hear your tangents
"Pump Up the Jaaam, Pump it up!! While your feet are stompiin"
Okay can’t wait for this one so a guilty pleasure isn’t a vice, like I would say some of my love a true crime is a vice, this kind of media is toxic and I like for toxic reasons shouldn’t I stop watching this media?
I think he's talking about music mostly... true crime is questionable?
@ yeah parts of it are
The concept of a guilty pleasure can apply to any media, and that's mainly what he's talking about. He's just framing it through music specifically because that's what his channel is about. @maps_x
@23:00 But what if it’s my managers that have the bad taste? 🤔
But seriously, great vid. “Lisa needs braces” indeed. solidarity forever.
Dropping this video right before FD drops his FD video is crazy timing
This is great!! Thank you
AVAA this is the most interesting video ive probably all year
thank you
when i think of music i would call my guilty pleasure the slip by nine inch nails comes to mind. its not becouse i think its bad, more that it feals a bit suffice level. its like candy. it taste good but it dosent feal as rewarding to consume as a full meal. i think when im listen to that album im conflicted becouse i could spend my time better listening to something i would get more out of.
And that's subjective
AVAA! Got me thinking about just how differently I feel about some of the artists mentioned in the video, and this may be a long comment but if ya get to the end maybe this could shed light on you feeling differently about a chappell vs. an r. Kelly.
Off the top of my head Id have 3 categories, the R.Kelly, the Vaugner, and the Kanye
R. Kelly represents when the art isn't really engaging with the area of moral conflict. You listen to R. Kelly for a good time and to me that's fine, but what isn't fine is forgetting or denying what he's done. The danger lies in the fact that the art is so easily separated from the artist and the art is probably best enjoyed if you forget about the artist and 5 years of enjoying r.kellys music without thinking about r.kelly and all of the sudden we got some harmful mass amnesia. This is where it's like if you can enjoy the football game while listening to your wife explain the psychological problems of it then enjoy the football game! But the experience probably won't be the same and if you can't enjoy the football game under those circumstances then you're better off turning off the game than getting mad at her for contextualizing it.
Wagner to me feels like an example of a fascist making art that embodies fascism. Now we are in the realm where you still could separate the art from the artist, but it might not change much cause the conflict is arising from ideas conveyed in the art. The flip side of that is that an especially good example of this kind of art can simultaneously wrap you up in the feeling it conveys, while helping you understand the appeal of an awful idea AND revealing it's darkness all at once. When I listen to ride of the Valkyrie I feel the rush of the powerful conquering general and the terror of the peasant who's village was just turned to ash. But it's likely that I only read so much into a instrumental piece of music BECAUSE I know Wagner is pretty fasci, and that piece has been used in those kinds of ways in so much media. I think there's a lot to be gotten from this kind of art but it might be the most dangerous kind, as it includes most of the music that fires up teenage boys at the recruitment office. Beautiful art about bad ideas can tell us a lot about humanity itself, it can teach us the motivating emotions behind those bad ideas, but it often still serves those bad ideas as intended.
Then we have Kanye. I can't think of many other artists in the Kanye category off the top of my head, and sometimes Kanye's work might fit into the other 2 better. But to me Kanye represents when there is no separating the art from the artist. The art is so explicitly in conversation with the artist's life, headspace, random thoughts, and even in conversation with the public's conversation about the artist that you probably won't get as much from the art without some awareness of the controversy surrounding the artist. While R. Kelly is best enjoyed by forgetting about his actions, Kanye's music at its best won't let you forget about his controversies cause he's addressing it directly. It stays compelling even when you object to what he's saying because on plenty of occasions there's a part of him that is objecting right along with you. There's a vulnerability to a good Kanye album where he's just laying all his own inner conflict out there to be dissected, and he's done that so much that even when he doesn't sound conflicted about what he's saying I'm tempted to infer it anyways. To me the Kanye style of conflicted listening has the most to offer since the conflict is so often baked into the art itself.
I don't know where Chappelle lies in this, but I know he isn't in the R. Kelly category, and for me at least it's always easier to engage with an objectionable artist when it's the art itself that is objectionable. Then it at least feels like critical engagement as opposed to cognitive dissonance. Which also speaks to the difference between people who are condemned for their actions vs. those who are condemned for their ideas. Actions feel much easier for me to judge someone for, but that's not to say ideas and words are harmless, the capacity is there for someone expressing bad ideas compellingly to cause harm on a much larger scale than any individual's actions ever could. But ideas are also squishier than actions, like If you SA someone then I fundamentally don't trust your moral compass, but I know plenty of good people who ascribe to bad ideas and I'm much more likely to love the sinner and hate the sin. Plus ideas take more time and momentum to really start doing harm and if someone just fell into following a bad idea and abandons it before those ideas turned to actions that's a whole lot different then doing something horrendous and then saying your sorry.
Hey professor, your reviews are really insightful and introspective. I've been following your channel for a while, and your perspectives made me understand myself and my taste way better, so thank you.
When you have a little bit of time to spare, please listen to Dysocjacja by Exodus1900, I think the album is really good, and it has a unique flavor and rhythm that's really memorable.
Just like other music you reviewed, this album was an acquired taste for me, going from "I don't know if I like it", to "it's allright" and then to "this music is really really good", so keep that in mind. I would really like to hear your thoughts on it. Even if it is just a reply to this comment.
Thank you for this class!
I remember i was conflicted.
I love your video essays
If only there was a term for when you're conflicted about something that you are doing and you enjoy it, but feel like you shouldn't. If only there was a word for that.
I thought I’d decided that given i had always listened to the artists and the music is something apart from them personally,
it’s somehow something I own in a sense and so I would continue to listen to MJ and JZ among others but in reality the conflict is too much.
Turns out it’s not a choice apparently,. Which is difficult to come to terms with if you like to think you can always reason with yourself.
possibly, can you reason with your heart, probably not …
AVAA these videos are quickly becoming my guilty pleasure!
AVAA! I think that something like that tarantino-godard-monogram path of snobbery is a necessary part of getting to that understanding. Maybe not fundamentally necessary, but given, yknow, everything, I think environments that create a person who intrinsically understands the system behind the concept “having taste” = “being distinguished” are rare. I think it’s difficult to view that line or hierarchy of snobbery as a web and an artistic ecosystem until you map enough of it in your head. Leaving the associations of power behind is the more complicated and difficult part though.
AVAA 24:30 golden moment
This is a very difficult subject matter, but you discuss it very well
22:44 LISA NEEDS BRACES
DENTAL PLAAAN
That wordplay on thr spot was immaculate. Is there a little lyricist in Professor Skye?
new Skye Fridays!!!
It’s the old ‘don’t put me in a box’ box …
This morning my neighbours and i have already enjoyed listening to Madonna, Wiley, Van Morrison and Ray Vaughn ( the rapper, I’d never be caught listening to the other ray, obviously how embarrassing…. ) lol
Hegel en la dialectiva del Amo y El Esclavo hace una referencia a distinguirse como el motor que lleva a una batalla a muerte porque todos queremos ser reconocidos
That's probably one of the best videos about how we view art, I have ever seen. I have one question though, or maybe a video idea, do you think one can separate art from artist? Thank you for your videos, peace out ✌️
AVAA gotta love it man
I needed this
AFAA will read the Pierre Bourdieu book for sure!
Hi professor Skye, AVAA. Would you talk more about movies in your videos, maybe create a different channel or something like that. It would be awesome to hear your opinions on different movies, old and new.