I personally think Deckard has to be a human for the story to work best, but I like that it's never definitively stated and remains ambiguous. Denis Villeneuve was smart to keep it ambiguous in Blade Runner 2049.
Yeah, me too. I think it's deliberately ambiguous (whatever Ridley's said since) because basically it doesn't matter. Replicants are humans, so this is a whole film all about being humans.
In the scene where Pris smashes into Sebastian's vehicle, Daryl Hannah accidently put her elbow through real glass and chipped it into 8 pieces. No wonder it looks so real :) Also the start of filming on the movie was delayed by several months due to a writer's strike, so that gave the production crew more time to work on the amazing sets, locations, costumes, and props. And they also re-purposed the neon signs used in the Las Vegas sets from Francis Ford Coppola's beautiful flop "One from the Heart."
I agree with Ty. I also think that if you took out all of the filmmaker tricks like the light in the eyes and the unicorn dream sequence, and just had Deckard's scenes , almost no one would be thinking he was a replicant.
16:46 with so many themes in Blade Runner, I appreciate Ty highlighting the atomization, deracination, and loneliness of everyone in this cyberpunk future. With a real-life loneliness epidemic underway, that theme hits differently than if someone would have pointed that out 10 years ago.
I do believe Deckard is a new model replicant with implanted memories. Straight out of the vat, with memories of being a burned out human blade runner; the humans are scared that they will be able to stop the Nexus 6 androids. The entire encounter with Gaft at the noodle bar was a final test by his controller/monitor. Like the audience, Deckard is thrust straight into the action with no time to really think or question the reality of his memories. But as the movie progresses he starts to. This doesn't negate the exploration of what it is to be human.
Nerding out on movies is among my favorite things. And seeing it done by one of my favorite authors/producers and actors is the cherry on top. Keep it up. Don't stop. I'll always watch.
Thank you for doing this 2 episode discussion of a great movie. Your words are a tribute to the movie, the acing and to Rutger Howard. This is not just tears in the rain as more people watch this channel.
I think I've suggested this before, but you guys NEED to see a very underrated 'post apocalyptic' movie that starred Rutger Hauer, Vincent D'onofrio and Joan Chen as a rag tag group who form a team to play in a sport for a better life w/ the wealthy, elitists, "Blood of Heroes" also known as "The Salute of the Jugger"
There are many ways that is one of my all-time favorite films, and many other ways that it is an unwatchable piece of garbage. You have to be in the right mood for Salute of the Jugger. Fun fact: Vincent D'Onofrio is the only American actor I've ever seen pronounce "Melbourne" correctly, and I credit his traveling to Australia in the 80s to film this.
@@Nick-pu3of 1. Rutger Hauer at his most rugged 'war torn' height. 2. Vincent D'Onofrio, up and coming bad ass, around the time of his Full Metal Jacket tour de force performance? 3. Joan Chen, tough as nails, anything to survive 4. Bloody sport w/ a sort of strategy and plenty of body damage, rooting for the under dog as they find their footing and rise... Yes, some movies show the era they were made, but the 'whole' of Blood of Heroes makes it an epic IMO
The two soundtracks I listen to most are both from films I'd love to see discussed here: Bubba Ho-Tep and Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Both beautifully cheesy and over the top and so much fun, with music primarily from their creators.
My two yuan about the ”seduction” scene: Why is Deckard acting so weird and misogynist when it’s not actually the forties, Rachael doesn’t have a reputation care about and is visibly scared? He’s a replicant who he thinks he’s a human. But he’s starting to have second thoughts. Key line ”But how can it not know what it is?!” He knows for sure Rachael is a replicant though. So by pulling this misogynist act he’s trying to establish superiority over a replicant. ”Me man, you machine” so to speak. I think Deckard’s slowly waking up to the fact he’s been lied to for all his less than four years long life is one of the really great things about this film. Also, he might well have some kind of noir private eye implants that makes him revert to that kind of behavour towards women. But I think it’s important to remember he thinks he’s a human acting this way towards a machine, not towards a fellow human being.
Yes!!! Thank you for the shout out to Vangelis awesome score 🎉 Also, with regards to the awkward love scene , don’t forget that up to this point, Deckers whole career was retire replicants so I think it’s a very honest emotional reaction that he takes a while to downshift and deal with the fact that his days of shooting lovely dames in the back are over 😎
I sorta see Wes' point about Deckard being a replicant not undercutting the 'replicants are humans' narrative - it still works, but I'm with Ty, it's a much stronger point, a more coherent narrative, and more thematic if Deckard is a human. I also really hate when artists come back later and try to add to or change a piece of art, especially if they try to heavy-hand one particular interpretation. Like the time for an artist's intent to have influence on a work is before it's seen by the public; once it's out there you have to let it go and let people come to their own conclusions even if they're 'wrong'. Also re:Roy kicking Deckard's ass not making sense of Deckard is a replicant - Roy is specifically a combat model so it's pretty reasonable that he would have better reflexes and be stronger than your average labor or even pleasure model Nexus 6.
100% with Ty on this! With Deckard being human just made a more powerful story. If Deckard is a human who lost his humanity due to the nature of his job, and this adventures with replicants brought his humanity back at the end.
As a native Dutch speaker, I'm familiar with the movies that Rutger Hauer made before he went to Hollywood (he was most known for the Dutch movies by Paul Verhoeven, the Robocop, Total Recall, Starship Troopers, etc. director). He was probably the best known Dutch actor in the 1970s (even starting in the late 60s). So he was already an accomplished actor, it's after he had already proven everything he could that he made the journey to Hollywood. If he had lived a bit later, he (as well as Verhoeven and even Jeroen Krabbé, who has a similar parcours as Hauer but is only known as a James Bond villain in the Living Daylights) would have gone to Hollywood a lot sooner. Why did he end up making these B movies? Well, it may partially be the agent, but both Paul Verhoeven and Jeroen Krabbé also first did these B movies when they got to Hollywood. Blade Runner is now known as a cult classic, but it was a financial disaster after the success of Alien. Verhoeven got lucky that he turned Robocop into something special and audiences flocked to see it. Hauer stayed in that B movie (and also international) circuit, often in supporting roles. Both did also do more Dutch movies as leading actors.
Jeroen Krabbé is one of my favorite "that guy!" actors! John Phillip Law is kinda like that too because, despite being born in L.A., he had a very European-type career and even played in a Dutch soldier in the WWII film "Attack Force Z" (which was an Australian-Taiwanese co-production).
~ Getting others to understand the Humanity in others presumably not like themselves, is greater than Getting others to understand how much in common they have with others like themselves. Deckard is a Human . . . ~
I know most people haven't seen it, but you should consider Colossus: the forbin project. Ty, I believe you would love it. Really good precursor to a lot of the movies on your list.
The only way is works if he's a replicant is that Deckard is that Tyrell lied and Deckard is another version like Rachel put out in the world. The replicant strength thing I guess is either that version is weaker on purpose or because they think they're human they don't realize they are that strong. Either way its problematic and clearly a movie made where the story point wasn't set beforehand.
Yes, much of the story goes to waste if Deckard is a replicant. His eyes are open most of time during the unicorn dream, making it a daydream, which can be conjured voluntarily. I, as a human, can similarly have the same daydream. If the daydream make Deckard a replicant then Gaff must also be a replicant in order to know that a unicorn is an appropriate figure to make. People will say that Gaff is human and could simply look it up, but then so could Deckard. This is why people don't suspect him of being a replicant simply because he knows Rachael's spider egg memory. Same with the unicorn.
"If the daydream make Deckard a replicant then Gaff must also be a replicant in order to know that a unicorn is an appropriate figure to make.” You think? :) Of course he is. One of the most obvious replicants in the film.
regarding the rough love scene. She is an artificial human. He has learned to dehumanize and devalue these replicants. His shitty love making with one reflects that. It's shitty. But it's showing how shitty these replicants are treated.
Personally, I think one of the reasons Roy saves Deckard is because he finally realizes humans are no different from him - they're not these evil monsters who created him to die too soon, they're just as desperate to live as he and the other Nexus Sixes. His smile when Deckard is dangling and fumbling for purchase is IMO one of _recognition,_ he's thinking "Oh. That's _me_ dangling there."
I think I'm the only person in the world who thinks the Ladyhawke soundtrack is perfect. I genuinely cannot imagine it with anything other than that epic synthpop score. If it was orchestral it would be just like every other fantasy movie.
"Agents of Shield" did a loving homage to "Chopping Mall" in a time travel episode and I thought for sure that it had to be a fake movie, but was blown away when a friend of mine showed how bonkers brilliant it was.
Thank you guys speaking about the score. It is buy far the best score I've ever heard. Imagine the film without Vangelis masterpiece. It wouldn't have worked! And big Thanks to you both for "The Expanse" it was like a dream came true after all this years of waiting for a great Sci-fi film. Btw. When will the whole serie come on Blu-ray?
Finally! I agree! Deckard is not a replicant, and I watched Blade Runner the first week it was shown. The film is about replicants being slaves, because they *are* human.
I like to think Deckard is a replicant with Gaff’s memories. A nexus 6 implanted with the memories of a Blade Runner too injured to do his job. That’s why Gaff knows what Deckard’s thinking, where he’ll be, his dreams, how he’d feel about Rachel. That’s why the chief keeps Gaff watching Deckard closely, and why the chief looks spooked as hell when he’s talking to Deckard, like he can’t believe he’s playing along and talking to a machine. They’d just lost one Blade Runner to one of these models, and here comes Tyrell offering to take a Blade Runner’s skills and put them in the body of a replicant. Deckard’s apparently lack of Nexus 6 strength is because he doesn’t believe he has that strength - he believes he’s helpless of a replicant gets hold of him and that there’s little point fighting. He’s terrified. Then at the end of the film Deckard’s job is done, Gaff’s sent in to kill both him and Rachel but lets them go.
Wow! Re 'Is he or isn't he', as a Heinlein/Friday fan I also see the point of the movie as realizing she is human - but I love your theory. I'm going to rewatch from this perspective and see how it reads. (In Heinlein, it's about her self realization rather than the audience's perception.)
@@no_no_just_no And Rachel doesn’t remember that time she went into Tyrell Corp and consented to having all her memories recorded, so we can assume that specific memories are able to be selected or deselected for implanting. Just to be clear I’m not even suggesting this as a theory that I believe, it’s just one of those things which adds flavour to subsequent rewatches of a favourite film. It lines up well. I think if any of it had actually been the scriptwriter or director’s intent, it would have been mentioned at some point in the following 40 years.
I honestly think the other guy who’s shot in the beginning is also a blade runner. Either that or they implanted his memories et c into Deckard. It’s interesting how similar they sound when they put on this car salesman act, like Deckard with Zora.
I've gone back and forth so many times on the is Deckard... debate that I think I finally land on, it ultimately doesn't matter. It matters that Rachael is. "...because you've never seen a miracle".
I repeat what I said in Part 1: Rachel and Dechard aren't Nexus6, they are a new model, _without_ super-strength (Tyrrell made Rachel to play his daughter, so she cannot have superpowers). As for Ty's point, I don't see why a blade runner replicant had to be made specifically to hunt those escapees, he could have been built for the general purpose, or he could have had a different main purpose - falling in love with & having a child with Rachel, for example. Also a repeat from last time, I fully disagree with Ty on his main point: I think Deckard being a replicant _elevates_ the main theme that replicants are humans (or fully deserving of human rights): Deckard's recognition of the Nexus-6 as humans is not the sole nor the main way to get to that conclusion, the _viewer's_ recognition of the replicants as humans is even more important.
This may sound strange but you guys having a respectful argument is very compelling to watch. I'd consider looking for differences more often, even though not every movie has such a perfect debate lined up for ya!
The dream sequence of the unicorn is in the directors cut (maybe not the international or work print). other stuff was added like extra glare in the eyes, some people dancing, some re-filmed bits with Zora and a bit cg i'ed with a the dove at the end was put in for the final cut (it was there in the the directors cut but Ridley wasn't happy with it so he cig'ed it.) personally i prefer the directors cut because the eye glare seems really obvious and i find that not "knowing" more interesting than knowing. The theme of having your reality brought into question is a staple of P K Dick, and while in the book it turns out the protagonist is human i think it was switched intentionally for the film. When people philosophise over what makes someone "human" (over a monster, robot or animal) empathy tends to be what people lean into which is also what the book leans into. The Voight Kamf test asks hypothetical questions to provoke an empathic response, eg cruelty to animals, eating meat, violence, jealousy. Replicants dont have the same level of empathy as humans, that turtle question- just bizzare. MY MOTHER? I NEVER HAD A MOTHER!! What Phillip K Dick , the script writers and cause us to question is how human are we ourselves? Barring Sebastian there isn't a single decent human being in blade blade runner. Not even the protagonist (who might be a replicant) When Rachel asks "You ever take that test your self?" i think we're supposed to wonder how well we'd do..or anyone. And by the end of the film we should be questioning what it means to be human, if maybe how we treat what we might not consider to be human might cost us our humanity. By the time we reach the end following Deckards path to his revelation that him not being human doesn't mean all that much in this world and that the REAL Humans ....were the friends we made along the way.
I know people hate the narrated version of Blade Runner. But hear me out. What if, they made a newer cut. They re-recorded all the narration with Harrison Ford. Except: he is doing the voice from the Zora scene. Maybe add a little bit of 50s radio announcer. Just for the voiceover, not the dialogue, that stays the same. Throughout the entire movie.
@@Shadowman4710 I think the narration really helped 14 year old me "get" the movie, but now I don't need it. But I still feel nostalgic for it, although I realize it could be improved, perhaps by cutting it down and making it more meaningful like the feral kid's narration at the beginning and end of "The Road Warrior."
Great discussion guys, maybe the best one yet. I'm glad you brought up the uncomfortable date rape scene, I wonder if they could make a cut to take that out, make it consensual.
Hello guys. So when watching the Kurt Russell film Soldier, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Russells character has a tattoo of tanhauser gate, implying that he was in the same universe as Blade Runner and at that battle where Roy was. Thoughts?
It is said that replicates particularly the nexus 6 line, have the capacity to become as intelligent as their creators. As such Roy Batty has already looking into extending his life, and failed to find a solution. Going to Tyrell have himself 'repaired' was only an option for Pris. because he would have already deduced that if their were an actual 'fix' for his delema, then it would be most likely that the engineers would need to sedate him in order to operate. That alone would lead him to the plausible conclusion of an untimely death. so aside from a fix for pris and a fix for all replicants, he already knows his one life would be forefit for the sake of all future replicantes.
For me if Deckard is a Replicant it completely negates the poignancy of the ending. RoyBadde finds his humanity & is set free in death while Deckard regains his humanity & chooses to be free with Rachel. If you make Deckard a Replicant, he loses agency (in both films) I always thought the ambiguity was just a nod to the source material when Deckard temporarily doubts his lived reality as a human.
"The Blade Runner" is one of my all-time favorite movies - and I think it's the best role of Harrison Ford. He had the ability to take on more challenging roles than Han Solo or Indiana Jones. And just for the record: I don't subscribe to the notion that Deckard himself is a replicant - even if Ridley Scott said this 😉
There's an easy solution to the Deckard question. Just read the book. He's not a replicant. Making him a replicant only makes the premise more shallow and, I think, lessens the genius of Phillip K. Dick.
48:45 - When Wes asks _"Is it "Van-Jell-is",_ he means what the correct pronounciation is, but when Ty responds with _"Well, it's like 'JIF' or 'GIF' ",_ he is basically saying I don't care because I'm American. But the name should supposedly have a hard 'G' as in 'golf' and if you're really ambitious, the 'n' should be silent.
don't know if I can agree with the replicants are human argument in full. batty's mercy at the end places his action in a more noble light than the acts of the humans trying to destroy the replicants. yes, to the message that replicant life is just as valid a form of life as human/animal/natural life (like Hal 9000's death is moving). but if deck is a replicant, batty's mercy is less meaningful, as he is sparing another replicant from early termination. I've always thought r. Scott has a sly sense of humor. so roy's act, in effect, is his sparing his "creator" from non-existence.
Two outstanding 'deep dives' on one of the greatest sc-fi movies ever made. I'm with Ty on the Deckard/replicant take. Really enjoyed both shows. Thanks guys.
I love that Ty calls Deckard being a replicant a less compelling story. However, for the same argument Ty has that everything in this world is crap, is why I think Deckard is a Replicant. Everything has to be miserable for this world to work. Roy shows his ultimate humanity and still no human gets to see it. In the end everyone always loses, even if they think they won. I don’t believe there is a definitive answer, but for me anything compelling or optimistic has to be the opposite because you can’t have nice things in this world.
William Sanderson did great role in great series: Deadwood. I had to check that voice-over version. It is bad. For me voice over is usually not bad. I like it in old movies. This time the text makes it bad.
The biggest thing about the Blade Runner universe, and it is hinted at, is that the Earth is being emptied as more people leave to become colonist. And the government is actively promoting it. The colonist have their android slaves doing all their work, kind of like the British in India. The state of the art technology is still managed on Earth though, so technicians are important. This is why Sebastian can’t leave, and robotics are everywhere. Even the animals are being made.
With what Wes is saying about using Decard to hunt replicants because he id a lowly replicant makes sense until the bigotry enters the equation. It makes more sense to have a "trusted human" hunt the outsiders rather than a lowly replicant. This is because the powers that be are bigoted against replicants.
Deckard is a replicant! As are most parented humans are in this film. Roy Batty makes the leap to human (both literally and figuratively) while Deckard is still struggling with it. Through his act of empathy, he saves Deckard which allows Deckard to become human and to go back and save Rachel.
I personally think Deckard has to be a human for the story to work best, but I like that it's never definitively stated and remains ambiguous. Denis Villeneuve was smart to keep it ambiguous in Blade Runner 2049.
I thought Deckard was human and the Unicorn memory was part of a brainwashing program by the LAPD. Like an assassins activation trigger.
Yeah, me too. I think it's deliberately ambiguous (whatever Ridley's said since) because basically it doesn't matter. Replicants are humans, so this is a whole film all about being humans.
I totally agree. The Deckard as Replicant makes NO sense to me, especially in light of the sequel.
In the scene where Pris smashes into Sebastian's vehicle, Daryl Hannah accidently put her elbow through real glass and chipped it into 8 pieces. No wonder it looks so real :)
Also the start of filming on the movie was delayed by several months due to a writer's strike, so that gave the production crew more time to work on the amazing sets, locations, costumes, and props. And they also re-purposed the neon signs used in the Las Vegas sets from Francis Ford Coppola's beautiful flop "One from the Heart."
I agree with Ty. I also think that if you took out all of the filmmaker tricks like the light in the eyes and the unicorn dream sequence, and just had Deckard's scenes , almost no one would be thinking he was a replicant.
16:46 with so many themes in Blade Runner, I appreciate Ty highlighting the atomization, deracination, and loneliness of everyone in this cyberpunk future. With a real-life loneliness epidemic underway, that theme hits differently than if someone would have pointed that out 10 years ago.
I wanna commend you guys for being able to discuss different opinions with respect for each other. Love it
I commend them for not falling asleep watching that movie.
Ty: "I don't watch Star Wars." (Wes's expression of didn't know whether Ty is joking or if he should be hurt by that LOL)
Or perhaps he was being somewhat flippant like Freddy Mercury's "I don't like Star Wars" from the song "Bicycle Race?"
I do believe Deckard is a new model replicant with implanted memories. Straight out of the vat, with memories of being a burned out human blade runner; the humans are scared that they will be able to stop the Nexus 6 androids. The entire encounter with Gaft at the noodle bar was a final test by his controller/monitor. Like the audience, Deckard is thrust straight into the action with no time to really think or question the reality of his memories. But as the movie progresses he starts to. This doesn't negate the exploration of what it is to be human.
Nerding out on movies is among my favorite things. And seeing it done by one of my favorite authors/producers and actors is the cherry on top.
Keep it up. Don't stop. I'll always watch.
Great discussion, thanks guys. I re-watched Blade Runner in between part 1 and part 2 :)
Thank you for doing this 2 episode discussion of a great movie. Your words are a tribute to the movie, the acing and to Rutger Howard. This is not just tears in the rain as more people watch this channel.
Would love if you guys covered the new bladerunner. I would love to know what parts you didnt like.
I never thought about whether Deckard was a replicant but after hearing both arguments, Wes has me convinced 😂
I think I've suggested this before, but you guys NEED to see a very underrated 'post apocalyptic' movie that starred Rutger Hauer, Vincent D'onofrio and Joan Chen as a rag tag group who form a team to play in a sport for a better life w/ the wealthy, elitists, "Blood of Heroes" also known as "The Salute of the Jugger"
There are many ways that is one of my all-time favorite films, and many other ways that it is an unwatchable piece of garbage. You have to be in the right mood for Salute of the Jugger.
Fun fact: Vincent D'Onofrio is the only American actor I've ever seen pronounce "Melbourne" correctly, and I credit his traveling to Australia in the 80s to film this.
I have brought up this movie to the guys
@@TYandThatGuy fantastic, fingers are crossed, thanks
@@Nick-pu3of 1. Rutger Hauer at his most rugged 'war torn' height.
2. Vincent D'Onofrio, up and coming bad ass, around the time of his Full Metal Jacket tour de force performance?
3. Joan Chen, tough as nails, anything to survive
4. Bloody sport w/ a sort of strategy and plenty of body damage, rooting for the under dog as they find their footing and rise...
Yes, some movies show the era they were made, but the 'whole' of Blood of Heroes makes it an epic IMO
The two soundtracks I listen to most are both from films I'd love to see discussed here: Bubba Ho-Tep and Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Both beautifully cheesy and over the top and so much fun, with music primarily from their creators.
My two yuan about the ”seduction” scene: Why is Deckard acting so weird and misogynist when it’s not actually the forties, Rachael doesn’t have a reputation care about and is visibly scared?
He’s a replicant who he thinks he’s a human. But he’s starting to have second thoughts. Key line ”But how can it not know what it is?!”
He knows for sure Rachael is a replicant though. So by pulling this misogynist act he’s trying to establish superiority over a replicant. ”Me man, you machine” so to speak.
I think Deckard’s slowly waking up to the fact he’s been lied to for all his less than four years long life is one of the really great things about this film.
Also, he might well have some kind of noir private eye implants that makes him revert to that kind of behavour towards women. But I think it’s important to remember he thinks he’s a human acting this way towards a machine, not towards a fellow human being.
But Tyrell explains it: A candel that burns twise as bright, burn half as long. Decker is made to last.
Excalibur: Karl Orff. Carmina Burana (speeling proly off)
Yes!!! Thank you for the shout out to Vangelis awesome score 🎉 Also, with regards to the awkward love scene , don’t forget that up to this point, Deckers whole career was retire replicants so I think it’s a very honest emotional reaction that he takes a while to downshift and deal with the fact that his days of shooting lovely dames in the back are over 😎
Ty is right
first movie i went to without my parents. still an amazing film
I sorta see Wes' point about Deckard being a replicant not undercutting the 'replicants are humans' narrative - it still works, but I'm with Ty, it's a much stronger point, a more coherent narrative, and more thematic if Deckard is a human. I also really hate when artists come back later and try to add to or change a piece of art, especially if they try to heavy-hand one particular interpretation. Like the time for an artist's intent to have influence on a work is before it's seen by the public; once it's out there you have to let it go and let people come to their own conclusions even if they're 'wrong'.
Also re:Roy kicking Deckard's ass not making sense of Deckard is a replicant - Roy is specifically a combat model so it's pretty reasonable that he would have better reflexes and be stronger than your average labor or even pleasure model Nexus 6.
100% with Ty on this! With Deckard being human just made a more powerful story. If Deckard is a human who lost his humanity due to the nature of his job, and this adventures with replicants brought his humanity back at the end.
As a native Dutch speaker, I'm familiar with the movies that Rutger Hauer made before he went to Hollywood (he was most known for the Dutch movies by Paul Verhoeven, the Robocop, Total Recall, Starship Troopers, etc. director). He was probably the best known Dutch actor in the 1970s (even starting in the late 60s). So he was already an accomplished actor, it's after he had already proven everything he could that he made the journey to Hollywood. If he had lived a bit later, he (as well as Verhoeven and even Jeroen Krabbé, who has a similar parcours as Hauer but is only known as a James Bond villain in the Living Daylights) would have gone to Hollywood a lot sooner.
Why did he end up making these B movies? Well, it may partially be the agent, but both Paul Verhoeven and Jeroen Krabbé also first did these B movies when they got to Hollywood. Blade Runner is now known as a cult classic, but it was a financial disaster after the success of Alien. Verhoeven got lucky that he turned Robocop into something special and audiences flocked to see it. Hauer stayed in that B movie (and also international) circuit, often in supporting roles. Both did also do more Dutch movies as leading actors.
Jeroen Krabbé is one of my favorite "that guy!" actors! John Phillip Law is kinda like that too because, despite being born in L.A., he had a very European-type career and even played in a Dutch soldier in the WWII film "Attack Force Z" (which was an Australian-Taiwanese co-production).
Best line of the video is "I don't watch Star Wars"
~ Getting others to understand the Humanity in others presumably not like themselves, is greater than Getting others to understand how much in common they have with others like themselves. Deckard is a Human . . . ~
I know most people haven't seen it, but you should consider Colossus: the forbin project. Ty, I believe you would love it. Really good precursor to a lot of the movies on your list.
another great ep, am always surprised by the low viewer count, you deserve a much bigger audience
It's funny how Wes pronounces "Vangelis" with the "a" and the "e" just the opposite way it should be.
He also keeps saying "Rutgerd Hauer". And at 45:29 I just noticed he referred to "Gafft".
The only way is works if he's a replicant is that Deckard is that Tyrell lied and Deckard is another version like Rachel put out in the world. The replicant strength thing I guess is either that version is weaker on purpose or because they think they're human they don't realize they are that strong. Either way its problematic and clearly a movie made where the story point wasn't set beforehand.
Yes, much of the story goes to waste if Deckard is a replicant. His eyes are open most of time during the unicorn dream, making it a daydream, which can be conjured voluntarily. I, as a human, can similarly have the same daydream. If the daydream make Deckard a replicant then Gaff must also be a replicant in order to know that a unicorn is an appropriate figure to make. People will say that Gaff is human and could simply look it up, but then so could Deckard. This is why people don't suspect him of being a replicant simply because he knows Rachael's spider egg memory. Same with the unicorn.
"If the daydream make Deckard a replicant then Gaff must also be a replicant in order to know that a unicorn is an appropriate figure to make.”
You think? :) Of course he is. One of the most obvious replicants in the film.
regarding the rough love scene. She is an artificial human. He has learned to dehumanize and devalue these replicants. His shitty love making with one reflects that. It's shitty. But it's showing how shitty these replicants are treated.
Its well established that replicants like it rough especially with Harrison Ford😂
@@ninawildr4207 don't we all😂
@@ProfessD😆
Personally, I think one of the reasons Roy saves Deckard is because he finally realizes humans are no different from him - they're not these evil monsters who created him to die too soon, they're just as desperate to live as he and the other Nexus Sixes. His smile when Deckard is dangling and fumbling for purchase is IMO one of _recognition,_ he's thinking "Oh. That's _me_ dangling there."
I think I'm the only person in the world who thinks the Ladyhawke soundtrack is perfect. I genuinely cannot imagine it with anything other than that epic synthpop score. If it was orchestral it would be just like every other fantasy movie.
For me there's no better "machines gone wrong" movie than Chopping Mall.
amen
Blade Runner unfortunately doesn't have Dick Miller or Mary Woronov or Barbara Crampton
"Agents of Shield" did a loving homage to "Chopping Mall" in a time travel episode and I thought for sure that it had to be a fake movie, but was blown away when a friend of mine showed how bonkers brilliant it was.
12:25 he was awesome in Deadwood - slimy monologing hotel owner
Thank you guys speaking about the score. It is buy far the best score I've ever heard. Imagine the film without Vangelis masterpiece. It wouldn't have worked! And big Thanks to you both for "The Expanse" it was like a dream came true after all this years of waiting for a great Sci-fi film. Btw. When will the whole serie come on Blu-ray?
This one and the score to Akira I flip back and forth on which is my favorite.
Finally! I agree! Deckard is not a replicant, and I watched Blade Runner the first week it was shown. The film is about replicants being slaves, because they *are* human.
Thanks guys (and Tys)!
Machines gone wrong: 'Hardware' scared the crap out of me.
I often wonder if the Batty model was maybe once a friend of Tyrell who maybe volunteered DNA before a disease killed him.
I read in IMDB Trivia that the original human Roy Batty shows up a Jeter book sequel.
i agree that Ex Machina takes the prize! Matrix is a close second.
Wes is correct, it's pronounced Van-GEL-is, not Van-JELL-is.
I prefer the 'I want more life father' version. It's just a better line. Deeper connection meeting
Great discussion. I got a lot from the discussion of (all) of the characters being desperately lonely. That was a good insight.
I like to think Deckard is a replicant with Gaff’s memories. A nexus 6 implanted with the memories of a Blade Runner too injured to do his job. That’s why Gaff knows what Deckard’s thinking, where he’ll be, his dreams, how he’d feel about Rachel. That’s why the chief keeps Gaff watching Deckard closely, and why the chief looks spooked as hell when he’s talking to Deckard, like he can’t believe he’s playing along and talking to a machine. They’d just lost one Blade Runner to one of these models, and here comes Tyrell offering to take a Blade Runner’s skills and put them in the body of a replicant. Deckard’s apparently lack of Nexus 6 strength is because he doesn’t believe he has that strength - he believes he’s helpless of a replicant gets hold of him and that there’s little point fighting. He’s terrified.
Then at the end of the film Deckard’s job is done, Gaff’s sent in to kill both him and Rachel but lets them go.
Wow! Re 'Is he or isn't he', as a Heinlein/Friday fan I also see the point of the movie as realizing she is human - but I love your theory. I'm going to rewatch from this perspective and see how it reads.
(In Heinlein, it's about her self realization rather than the audience's perception.)
It's a great idea but I'm not convinced because Deckard doesn't seem to understand city speak, or have an interest in origami.
@@no_no_just_no And Rachel doesn’t remember that time she went into Tyrell Corp and consented to having all her memories recorded, so we can assume that specific memories are able to be selected or deselected for implanting.
Just to be clear I’m not even suggesting this as a theory that I believe, it’s just one of those things which adds flavour to subsequent rewatches of a favourite film. It lines up well. I think if any of it had actually been the scriptwriter or director’s intent, it would have been mentioned at some point in the following 40 years.
fair @@mrgideon666
I honestly think the other guy who’s shot in the beginning is also a blade runner. Either that or they implanted his memories et c into Deckard. It’s interesting how similar they sound when they put on this car salesman act, like Deckard with Zora.
you totally forgot Ash 😮
I've gone back and forth so many times on the is Deckard... debate that I think I finally land on, it ultimately doesn't matter. It matters that Rachael is. "...because you've never seen a miracle".
I repeat what I said in Part 1: Rachel and Dechard aren't Nexus6, they are a new model, _without_ super-strength (Tyrrell made Rachel to play his daughter, so she cannot have superpowers). As for Ty's point, I don't see why a blade runner replicant had to be made specifically to hunt those escapees, he could have been built for the general purpose, or he could have had a different main purpose - falling in love with & having a child with Rachel, for example.
Also a repeat from last time, I fully disagree with Ty on his main point: I think Deckard being a replicant _elevates_ the main theme that replicants are humans (or fully deserving of human rights): Deckard's recognition of the Nexus-6 as humans is not the sole nor the main way to get to that conclusion, the _viewer's_ recognition of the replicants as humans is even more important.
This may sound strange but you guys having a respectful argument is very compelling to watch. I'd consider looking for differences more often, even though not every movie has such a perfect debate lined up for ya!
Just wanted to leave a like and a comment because I usually listen on Spotify.
Thanks Guys!
The Bradbury Building
Jean- Michel Jarre soundtrack to Gallipoli is epic.
The dream sequence of the unicorn is in the directors cut (maybe not the international or work print). other stuff was added like extra glare in the eyes, some people dancing, some re-filmed bits with Zora and a bit cg i'ed with a the dove at the end was put in for the final cut (it was there in the the directors cut but Ridley wasn't happy with it so he cig'ed it.) personally i prefer the directors cut because the eye glare seems really obvious and i find that not "knowing" more interesting than knowing.
The theme of having your reality brought into question is a staple of P K Dick, and while in the book it turns out the protagonist is human i think it was switched intentionally for the film.
When people philosophise over what makes someone "human" (over a monster, robot or animal) empathy tends to be what people lean into which is also what the book leans into. The Voight Kamf test asks hypothetical questions to provoke an empathic response, eg cruelty to animals, eating meat, violence, jealousy. Replicants dont have the same level of empathy as humans, that turtle question- just bizzare. MY MOTHER? I NEVER HAD A MOTHER!!
What Phillip K Dick , the script writers and cause us to question is how human are we ourselves? Barring Sebastian there isn't a single decent human being in blade blade runner. Not even the protagonist (who might be a replicant) When Rachel asks "You ever take that test your self?" i think we're supposed to wonder how well we'd do..or anyone. And by the end of the film we should be questioning what it means to be human, if maybe how we treat what we might not consider to be human might cost us our humanity. By the time we reach the end following Deckards path to his revelation that him not being human doesn't mean all that much in this world and that the REAL Humans ....were the friends we made along the way.
Your right, the unicorn is not in the international or work print. Work print is my favorite.
Sean young was terrified for real.
So I've read. Apparently they loathed each other.
I know people hate the narrated version of Blade Runner. But hear me out.
What if, they made a newer cut. They re-recorded all the narration with Harrison Ford. Except: he is doing the voice from the Zora scene. Maybe add a little bit of 50s radio announcer. Just for the voiceover, not the dialogue, that stays the same. Throughout the entire movie.
Personally, I've always loved the narrated version.
@@Shadowman4710 I think the narration really helped 14 year old me "get" the movie, but now I don't need it. But I still feel nostalgic for it, although I realize it could be improved, perhaps by cutting it down and making it more meaningful like the feral kid's narration at the beginning and end of "The Road Warrior."
40:48 I agree, Ty!
About soundtracks: I listened to Gladiator soundtrack while reading Lord of the Rings (before the movies went out).
Perfect.
Great discussion guys, maybe the best one yet. I'm glad you brought up the uncomfortable date rape scene, I wonder if they could make a cut to take that out, make it consensual.
War Games for me: Shall we play a game?
Hello guys. So when watching the Kurt Russell film Soldier, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Russells character has a tattoo of tanhauser gate, implying that he was in the same universe as Blade Runner and at that battle where Roy was. Thoughts?
It is said that replicates particularly the nexus 6 line, have the capacity to become as intelligent as their creators. As such Roy Batty has already looking into extending his life, and failed to find a solution. Going to Tyrell have himself 'repaired' was only an option for Pris. because he would have already deduced that if their were an actual 'fix' for his delema, then it would be most likely that the engineers would need to sedate him in order to operate. That alone would lead him to the plausible conclusion of an untimely death. so aside from a fix for pris and a fix for all replicants, he already knows his one life would be forefit for the sake of all future replicantes.
Niander states that Rachael was made for Decker.
He could have been referring to the new, fake Rachael. 2049 is ambiguous about those open questions
Tyrell's last joke.
That would actually explain why the cliché noir detective meets a cliche noir woman in this cliché noir environment.
For me if Deckard is a Replicant it completely negates the poignancy of the ending. RoyBadde finds his humanity & is set free in death while Deckard regains his humanity & chooses to be free with Rachel. If you make Deckard a Replicant, he loses agency (in both films) I always thought the ambiguity was just a nod to the source material when Deckard temporarily doubts his lived reality as a human.
"The Blade Runner" is one of my all-time favorite movies - and I think it's the best role of Harrison Ford. He had the ability to take on more challenging roles than Han Solo or Indiana Jones. And just for the record: I don't subscribe to the notion that Deckard himself is a replicant - even if Ridley Scott said this 😉
There's an easy solution to the Deckard question.
Just read the book.
He's not a replicant. Making him a replicant only makes the premise more shallow and, I think, lessens the genius of Phillip K. Dick.
48:45 - When Wes asks _"Is it "Van-Jell-is",_ he means what the correct pronounciation is, but when Ty responds with _"Well, it's like 'JIF' or 'GIF' ",_ he is basically saying I don't care because I'm American.
But the name should supposedly have a hard 'G' as in 'golf' and if you're really ambitious, the 'n' should be silent.
don't know if I can agree with the replicants are human argument in full. batty's mercy at the end places his action in a more noble light than the acts of the humans trying to destroy the replicants. yes, to the message that replicant life is just as valid a form of life as human/animal/natural life (like Hal 9000's death is moving). but if deck is a replicant, batty's mercy is less meaningful, as he is sparing another replicant from early termination. I've always thought r. Scott has a sly sense of humor. so roy's act, in effect, is his sparing his "creator" from non-existence.
Two outstanding 'deep dives' on one of the greatest sc-fi movies ever made. I'm with Ty on the Deckard/replicant take. Really enjoyed both shows. Thanks guys.
imho: podcast audio would benefit from an adjustment of the noise-reduction threshold setting.
I love that Ty calls Deckard being a replicant a less compelling story. However, for the same argument Ty has that everything in this world is crap, is why I think Deckard is a Replicant. Everything has to be miserable for this world to work. Roy shows his ultimate humanity and still no human gets to see it. In the end everyone always loses, even if they think they won. I don’t believe there is a definitive answer, but for me anything compelling or optimistic has to be the opposite because you can’t have nice things in this world.
William Sanderson did great role in great series: Deadwood. I had to check that voice-over version. It is bad. For me voice over is usually not bad. I like it in old movies. This time the text makes it bad.
The biggest thing about the Blade Runner universe, and it is hinted at, is that the Earth is being emptied as more people leave to become colonist. And the government is actively promoting it. The colonist have their android slaves doing all their work, kind of like the British in India.
The state of the art technology is still managed on Earth though, so technicians are important. This is why Sebastian can’t leave, and robotics are everywhere. Even the animals are being made.
Machines gone wrong hardware
With what Wes is saying about using Decard to hunt replicants because he id a lowly replicant makes sense until the bigotry enters the equation.
It makes more sense to have a "trusted human" hunt the outsiders rather than a lowly replicant. This is because the powers that be are bigoted against replicants.
Ridley Scott went too far when he replaced Vangelis with Vengalis in the new cut
😂
I realize people don't like the voice overs, but I found the versions without the voice over to be confusing.
Read A Sliver of Soul.
Hard agree with Ty on this one. Everything I like about the story vanishes if Deckard is a replicant.
Hay!!
❤❤❤
Deckard is a replicant! As are most parented humans are in this film. Roy Batty makes the leap to human (both literally and figuratively) while Deckard is still struggling with it. Through his act of empathy, he saves Deckard which allows Deckard to become human and to go back and save Rachel.
🔔👍🏻