I call this the CCPification of Chinese-ed Malaysians and Singaporeans. It's unfortunate that the changes in central Peninsular Malaysia, mainly Klang Valley, Ipoh and Seremban/PD, over the last couple of decades has been highly influenced by the developments in China especially now with all these XHS and Douyin. While there are the over-Westernised ones on one end, there are Chinese-eds who are on the other extreme of the spectrum. But believe it or not, I've been ask by a PRC if Malaysia can be their "surrogate country", a vessel state. That's how little they think of us - he was just daring enough to ask me what others think of but don't say. As a KL born and bred, Cantonese has always been the ligua franca while growing up in the 90s. Both sides of my family are Hakka, I know schoolmates who spoke Hokkien at home but we all learned and spoke Cantonese through not only TV and movies, but from each other and from strangers like the chicken rice seller or the aunty at the sundry shop. Nowadays, every Chinese-ed person below 30 will automatically speak Mandarin and when you reply in Cantonese, they'll answer you English instead, or even worse in broken Malay because they can't even speak English. We are the real Chinese, unaffected by direct political revolution and appropriation which included the language yellow-washing, we should be ourselves and not be follow them.
What a cute sepia picture on the cover...I think I spotted you in there! We totally agree with your plea. Mandarin was the language of the Manchu Court duly imposed on 1.4 billion people today. We are not a vassal state of CN, we are simply "civilisational Chinese" of Malaysia in South East Asia. Let's speak Hokkien, our true heritage.
I find it quite bizarre how many Malaysians of Southern Chinese descent are abandoning Hokkien, Teochew, Hainanese, etc. and considering Mandarin to be their "mother tongue". Us Malaysians of Southern Indian descent would never dream of ditching Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, etc. in favour of Hindi. Nevertheless, I can see a parallel between the glorification of Mandarin by the Malaysian Chinese with the worship of English by the Malaysian Indians.
In Indonesia, the problem is quite the opposite. It's mostly that Indonesian 中华人 could no longer learn and speak Mandarin as Chinese culture was suppressed during the Suharto's New Order regime from 1965 onwards until 1998. As a result, Hokkien - as well as Cantonese and other Southern languages - remained an entirely oral language which is at risk of extinction due to the lack of standardization and the eagerness to use Indonesian/Malay loanwords in the most liberal fashion. Even in Java island, I think 中华人 don't even speak a word of Hokkien anymore, though some would still be able to speak Mandarin. The problem is very pronounced especially for the younger generation where English and Mandarin, in addition to Bahasa Indonesia, dominates the business, social, and cultural environment. I find that the elderly, who can actually pass down most of the Hokkien tradition, simply do not do so or refuse outright because of their age or their temperament. This leaves the younger generation at a loss on who to look up to for guidance. Sadly, in Medan and elsewhere, I have yet to see anyone who is intent on preserving Hokkien, especially Medan Hokkien, for future generations.
Oh no. That means they have totally forgotten their history? I am aware that in Medan, they are still speaking Medan Hokkien which is derived from the Zhangzhou Hokkien dialect. I have a friend who has created songs in Medan Hokkien: www.youtube.com/@AndyPG I can only help Javanese Indonesian Hokkien Chinese people re-learn Hokkien, but I do not know whether they are based on the Zhangzhou, Quanzhou or Xiamen dialect. They themselves need to check up on their own history.
@@anyanyanyanyanyany3551 tina toon still speak hokkien 😁😁surprisingly 😂😂😂even sandra dewi still speak hokkien/teochew... Tina also speak mandarin😁😁 (indonesian chinese celebrities
@@anakitiktokwi2939 yes, but how much Hokkien do they speak? I'd wager very few can really speak Hokkien without borrowing many loanwords from Bahasa Indonesia, which has been my experience. Sometimes, I'm even at a loss on how to call my relatives by their proper relation to my family tree in Hokkien. And while Hokkien may still be spoken, as Tim has shown with PG Hokkien, if it's not standardized in written form, it could disappear almost entirely in a generation or two.
@@learnpenanghokkien I agree that Medan Hokkien can still be saved, but the danger of having no written form is still present, which is why sometimes I have to go to your wonderful dictionary because it actually bridges some of the gaps in my Hokkien vocabulary, perhaps due to the similarities in the dialect you mentioned. Even in Jakarta, the people I've encountered who speak Hokkien are actually migrants from Medan who moved to Jakarta and speak Medan Hokkien. I'll just add one anecdote of mine which may give you some hope. This might be longer, so please bear with me. I went to an international school (uses Singaporean curriculum) in Medan where the medium of instruction was English while Bahasa and Mandarin were still taught as separate classes. I was there for six years of Primary/Elementary schooling and never spoke a word of Hokkien in class. Back at home, I mostly spoke English with my dad and Indonesian with my parents, grandma, and siblings. But because Medan Hokkien was and is still pervasive in my home and local 中华 environment, I could still actually understand almost everything they said. There was even a time my family feared that I would be permanently unable to speak Hokkien. Then came the saving grace. Seeing how expensive int'l schools were and the lack of education in STEM subjects, my family moved me in Middle and High school to a famous Chinese-majority school where Bahasa was the medium of instruction. Since most of the teachers and students spoke Hokkien, to my family's surprise, I actually picked up Hokkien within a year and was able to speak Hokkien almost instantly, albeit while being out of tune (zao im). It's amazing how academic and social environment could really shape Unfortunately, my Hokkien was still handicapped to a certain extent because I know many Hokkien words that were still used and yet I would have to find an Indonesian loanword replacement for it. Still, it gives me the confidence that I could still proudly call myself a native Hokkien speaker, even if not at the level that my parents and grandparents were at. I fear that when the time comes where I have my own family, I could no longer pass down the Hokkien that their grandparents and great grandparents fluently spoke, and I would have no way of explaining why they had to deal with such a situation.
Aiyo imagine malaysia with only mandarin spoken by malaysia Chinese? If you go to johor bahru that what is happening now😢... I hope you dont forget about Chinese name in malaysia nowadays!!!! Most of younger generation of malaysian Chinese nowadays are in mandarin!!!
@learnpenanghokkien i think because it is closer to Singapore, in 1980 lee kwan yew launched a campaign known as speak mandarin campaign, this campaign was to make Singapore chinese to be more cohesive in term of linguistic!!! After so many years over half of Singapore chinese now speak only mandarin as their mother language!!! I think jb chinese also imitating Singapore chinese 🥲🥲🥲
Johor Chinese mostly believe in anything Lee Kuan Yew says. Lee Kuan Yew launched "Speak Mandarin Campaign" to eliminate the use of non-Mandarin Chinese.
Thanks for bringing the preservation of Chinese languages (dialect) and Mandarin language , which is i support for your video (your point), i am from Việt Nam with teochew heritage live in Australia now. ❤
Many Chinese in Msia & Spore discard their mother tongue languages because they want to appear to be "patriotic" to Communist China. That is the wrong idea of patriotism. China, in its more than 2,000 year history, is more than just Mandarin ; it is also Hokkien, Cantonese, etc. Losing these "dialects" would mean losing a big chunk of Chinese history & culture, & a disaster. Knowing the past helps us define the future, as Confucius said. The communists in China are keen to wipe out the past, & rewrite history, because their Marxist ideology urges them to do so.
These people who want to be "patriotic" are highly misinformed and don't realise that those people turn their backs on them at any given time. They don't even look at Malaysians and Singaporeans as "real" Chinese. A PRC once asked me if Malaysia can be their "surrogate country", which meant as "a vassal state". I don't think these M'sians and S'poreans even realise that many PRCs these days hold onto far less tradition and culture than us, especially the further north you go where Mandarin is supposedly originally from - ironic as it sounds.
@@Brisamars-q1c It was the Fascist Kuomintang that impose Mandarin and suppressed other languages. The KMT drove several Native Taiwanese languages to extinction.
@@Brisamars-q1cYou should know that the Taiwanese government banned Hokkien and Hakka. That’s why so many children now cannot speak it. Only now are they making some efforts to save Hokkien
When non-chinese learn mandarin, they end up learning an extra language When chinese learn mandarin, they end up losing their own mother language(s). funny
I support your idea to preserve or revive our native Chinese languages as I champion for it too. But I always heard this argument: "The real culprit is 'English' and not Mandarin. Many ethnic Chinese families choose 'English' rather than their own 'dialects' as the language spoken at home is the main cause." How do we respond to this argument?
In my case, although I speak lots of English, I do not neglect knowing Penang Hokkien. A person can learn both English and Mandarin without sacrificing their mother tongue. The problem is when they learn English and/or Mandarin, and have no interest to know or speak their mother tongue.
@@learnpenanghokkien Very true! We need to arouse both the older and younger generations' interest in their 'grandmother' tongues (to be exact) and this is the biggest challenge. Hope your channel can ignite their interest to discover the treasure of their own heritage.
The naive Communists of the Mao era wiped out Chinese culture with their "4 modernisations". We are the inheritors of Tang culture and the Teng Lang. I can go on and on about their cultural crimes (again Mao-era only) like destroying the Ming Dynasty Beijing city wall, allowing the pillage of the Qing tombs (Qianlong, Cixi), the destruction of classical temples and courtyard homes of landlords (Cultural Revolution is also known as the Chinese Holocaust), etc. someone in China has compiled a long list of the cultural genocide of China, extending to local languages. Every time they have social and political unrest, they wantonly destroy their heritage. What a fragile society. Just my observations.
I have ppl asking my husband why we teach our son Cantonese. We should be teaching him mandarin so that it will be easier for him to learn Chinese when he start schooling and he will automatically learn Cantonese in the future. At that time i really want to laugh at his face and say no thank you. Looking at the declining numbers of Cantonese speakers, it in itself already told us that if a language is not being used, it will slowly disappear......
You did the right thing. I really cannot fathom why parents who speak Cantonese to each other speak exclusively in Mandarin to their child. They'll eventually learn in school, from friends, and from media. I have hardly ever met anyone who starts with Mandarin able to grasp the more complex tones of Cantonese, but vice versa many Canto speakers have an easier time picking up Mandarin.
sometimes we hear: learn mandarin is better, more worth it! As the malay proverb goes: BAHASA JIWA BANGSA (language is the soul of a people). Not only the malay people, I think no any ethnic races in the world will throw away their mother tongues. Except chinese who always boast of 5000 years of culture, yet they are throwing away their 1500+ year-plus mother tongues (Hokkien/Cantonese/Hakka) for modern standard mandarin which only has at most 100 year history. We learn our mother tongue because it is our DUTY, pride, not because it is "more worth it" or not. If we use "more worth it", then many languages in the world, including Mandarin, will need to be eliminated. Only one language is necessary to exist: ENGLISH
I only speak Mandarin in places where Cantonese not lingua Franca that also I will start with Hokkien . Wah beh hiau kong Hokkien. Eh sai kong Hua ee ber?
@etloo1971 bahasa jawa is a very complex language just like most of languages spoken in javanese island and neighbouring island!!! All of the languages has it own social hierarchy... If you to your elderly you have to you use different language... So complex
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Leave a comment. Share a thought on this matter. I look forward to hearing from you.
In mid 1980s and 1990s I get lots of slander from Mandarin speakers for speaking Hokkien in Melaka and by Singaporeans.
I call this the CCPification of Chinese-ed Malaysians and Singaporeans. It's unfortunate that the changes in central Peninsular Malaysia, mainly Klang Valley, Ipoh and Seremban/PD, over the last couple of decades has been highly influenced by the developments in China especially now with all these XHS and Douyin. While there are the over-Westernised ones on one end, there are Chinese-eds who are on the other extreme of the spectrum. But believe it or not, I've been ask by a PRC if Malaysia can be their "surrogate country", a vessel state. That's how little they think of us - he was just daring enough to ask me what others think of but don't say.
As a KL born and bred, Cantonese has always been the ligua franca while growing up in the 90s. Both sides of my family are Hakka, I know schoolmates who spoke Hokkien at home but we all learned and spoke Cantonese through not only TV and movies, but from each other and from strangers like the chicken rice seller or the aunty at the sundry shop. Nowadays, every Chinese-ed person below 30 will automatically speak Mandarin and when you reply in Cantonese, they'll answer you English instead, or even worse in broken Malay because they can't even speak English. We are the real Chinese, unaffected by direct political revolution and appropriation which included the language yellow-washing, we should be ourselves and not be follow them.
What a cute sepia picture on the cover...I think I spotted you in there! We totally agree with your plea. Mandarin was the language of the Manchu Court duly imposed on 1.4 billion people today. We are not a vassal state of CN, we are simply "civilisational Chinese" of Malaysia in South East Asia. Let's speak Hokkien, our true heritage.
LOL, I wasn't there in the picture! Yes, we are not a vassal state, do not allow ourselves to be one within our mind.
Ironically, the Manchus themselves have lost their original language and completely switched to Mandarin.
I find it quite bizarre how many Malaysians of Southern Chinese descent are abandoning Hokkien, Teochew, Hainanese, etc. and considering Mandarin to be their "mother tongue". Us Malaysians of Southern Indian descent would never dream of ditching Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, etc. in favour of Hindi. Nevertheless, I can see a parallel between the glorification of Mandarin by the Malaysian Chinese with the worship of English by the Malaysian Indians.
That is an immensely insightful observation!
In Indonesia, the problem is quite the opposite. It's mostly that Indonesian 中华人 could no longer learn and speak Mandarin as Chinese culture was suppressed during the Suharto's New Order regime from 1965 onwards until 1998. As a result, Hokkien - as well as Cantonese and other Southern languages - remained an entirely oral language which is at risk of extinction due to the lack of standardization and the eagerness to use Indonesian/Malay loanwords in the most liberal fashion. Even in Java island, I think 中华人 don't even speak a word of Hokkien anymore, though some would still be able to speak Mandarin.
The problem is very pronounced especially for the younger generation where English and Mandarin, in addition to Bahasa Indonesia, dominates the business, social, and cultural environment. I find that the elderly, who can actually pass down most of the Hokkien tradition, simply do not do so or refuse outright because of their age or their temperament. This leaves the younger generation at a loss on who to look up to for guidance. Sadly, in Medan and elsewhere, I have yet to see anyone who is intent on preserving Hokkien, especially Medan Hokkien, for future generations.
Oh no. That means they have totally forgotten their history? I am aware that in Medan, they are still speaking Medan Hokkien which is derived from the Zhangzhou Hokkien dialect. I have a friend who has created songs in Medan Hokkien: www.youtube.com/@AndyPG
I can only help Javanese Indonesian Hokkien Chinese people re-learn Hokkien, but I do not know whether they are based on the Zhangzhou, Quanzhou or Xiamen dialect. They themselves need to check up on their own history.
@@anyanyanyanyanyany3551 tina toon still speak hokkien 😁😁surprisingly 😂😂😂even sandra dewi still speak hokkien/teochew... Tina also speak mandarin😁😁 (indonesian chinese celebrities
@@anakitiktokwi2939 yes, but how much Hokkien do they speak? I'd wager very few can really speak Hokkien without borrowing many loanwords from Bahasa Indonesia, which has been my experience. Sometimes, I'm even at a loss on how to call my relatives by their proper relation to my family tree in Hokkien. And while Hokkien may still be spoken, as Tim has shown with PG Hokkien, if it's not standardized in written form, it could disappear almost entirely in a generation or two.
@@learnpenanghokkien I agree that Medan Hokkien can still be saved, but the danger of having no written form is still present, which is why sometimes I have to go to your wonderful dictionary because it actually bridges some of the gaps in my Hokkien vocabulary, perhaps due to the similarities in the dialect you mentioned. Even in Jakarta, the people I've encountered who speak Hokkien are actually migrants from Medan who moved to Jakarta and speak Medan Hokkien.
I'll just add one anecdote of mine which may give you some hope. This might be longer, so please bear with me.
I went to an international school (uses Singaporean curriculum) in Medan where the medium of instruction was English while Bahasa and Mandarin were still taught as separate classes. I was there for six years of Primary/Elementary schooling and never spoke a word of Hokkien in class. Back at home, I mostly spoke English with my dad and Indonesian with my parents, grandma, and siblings. But because Medan Hokkien was and is still pervasive in my home and local 中华 environment, I could still actually understand almost everything they said. There was even a time my family feared that I would be permanently unable to speak Hokkien.
Then came the saving grace. Seeing how expensive int'l schools were and the lack of education in STEM subjects, my family moved me in Middle and High school to a famous Chinese-majority school where Bahasa was the medium of instruction. Since most of the teachers and students spoke Hokkien, to my family's surprise, I actually picked up Hokkien within a year and was able to speak Hokkien almost instantly, albeit while being out of tune (zao im). It's amazing how academic and social environment could really shape
Unfortunately, my Hokkien was still handicapped to a certain extent because I know many Hokkien words that were still used and yet I would have to find an Indonesian loanword replacement for it. Still, it gives me the confidence that I could still proudly call myself a native Hokkien speaker, even if not at the level that my parents and grandparents were at.
I fear that when the time comes where I have my own family, I could no longer pass down the Hokkien that their grandparents and great grandparents fluently spoke, and I would have no way of explaining why they had to deal with such a situation.
佇棉蘭，誠濟唐人會曉講福建話。老少皆曉福建話。
Tī Medan, tsiânn tsē tng-lâng ehiáu kóng Hokkien-uā. Lāu siáu kai hiáu Hokkien-uā.
The Hokkien association should conduct Hokkien language classes for the Hokkiens! Likewise for other languages!
They certainly should. But they too are getting Mandarinized.
我出生在槟城，我学了台山方言，因为爷爷坚持让我们在家只能说台山方言，不许说其他语言。他正在为我们返回祖国做准备吧😅。但二战和内战阻止了他这样做。最终，随着独立的到来，我们成为了马来西亚人。现在，作为新加坡人，我们在家说英语和我的老婆讲粤语，而我的孩子们却非常精通英语，除了和长辈说话外，他们几乎不使用普通话。这是东南亚海外华人语言技能的进化。我可能是最后一代能说和听懂大多数南方汉语方言的人。近来我回到了我祖父的村庄，意识到村民们都是我的血亲。这段经历让我感谢爷爷的坚持。所以不用担心，方言至少会在中国留存，因为我们的祖先、灵魂和精神就居住在那里。😇
Aiyo imagine malaysia with only mandarin spoken by malaysia Chinese? If you go to johor bahru that what is happening now😢... I hope you dont forget about Chinese name in malaysia nowadays!!!! Most of younger generation of malaysian Chinese nowadays are in mandarin!!!
Oh, I am aware of Johor Bahru. What a sad case, where local Chinese heritage is concerned.
@learnpenanghokkien i think because it is closer to Singapore, in 1980 lee kwan yew launched a campaign known as speak mandarin campaign, this campaign was to make Singapore chinese to be more cohesive in term of linguistic!!! After so many years over half of Singapore chinese now speak only mandarin as their mother language!!! I think jb chinese also imitating Singapore chinese 🥲🥲🥲
Johor Chinese mostly believe in anything Lee Kuan Yew says. Lee Kuan Yew launched "Speak Mandarin Campaign" to eliminate the use of non-Mandarin Chinese.
@etloo1971 aiyooo.... So sad🥲
I believe Teochew was once the dominant dialect of JB
Thanks for bringing the preservation of Chinese languages (dialect) and Mandarin language , which is i support for your video (your point), i am from Việt Nam with teochew heritage live in Australia now. ❤
I'm glad you found the video useful, and appreciate your support!
I have found Mandarin speakers struggle with Cantonese, but Cantonese speakers general can speak/understand Mandarin.
That's a good observation!
Many Chinese in Msia & Spore discard their mother tongue languages because they want to appear to be "patriotic" to Communist China. That is the wrong idea of patriotism. China, in its more than 2,000 year history, is more than just Mandarin ; it is also Hokkien, Cantonese, etc. Losing these "dialects" would mean losing a big chunk of Chinese history & culture, & a disaster. Knowing the past helps us define the future, as Confucius said. The communists in China are keen to wipe out the past, & rewrite history, because their Marxist ideology urges them to do so.
You are so right. For 2000+ years, no one needed "Mandarin" until the communists took over. Mao himself spoke Hunanese in one of his rallies.
These people who want to be "patriotic" are highly misinformed and don't realise that those people turn their backs on them at any given time. They don't even look at Malaysians and Singaporeans as "real" Chinese. A PRC once asked me if Malaysia can be their "surrogate country", which meant as "a vassal state". I don't think these M'sians and S'poreans even realise that many PRCs these days hold onto far less tradition and culture than us, especially the further north you go where Mandarin is supposedly originally from - ironic as it sounds.
@@Brisamars-q1c It was the Fascist Kuomintang that impose Mandarin and suppressed other languages. The KMT drove several Native Taiwanese languages to extinction.
@@Brisamars-q1cYou should know that the Taiwanese government banned Hokkien and Hakka. That’s why so many children now cannot speak it.
Only now are they making some efforts to save Hokkien
When non-chinese learn mandarin, they end up learning an extra language
When chinese learn mandarin, they end up losing their own mother language(s). funny
Ironic yet true!
I support your idea to preserve or revive our native Chinese languages as I champion for it too. But I always heard this argument: "The real culprit is 'English' and not Mandarin. Many ethnic Chinese families choose 'English' rather than their own 'dialects' as the language spoken at home is the main cause." How do we respond to this argument?
In my case, although I speak lots of English, I do not neglect knowing Penang Hokkien. A person can learn both English and Mandarin without sacrificing their mother tongue. The problem is when they learn English and/or Mandarin, and have no interest to know or speak their mother tongue.
@@learnpenanghokkien Very true! We need to arouse both the older and younger generations' interest in their 'grandmother' tongues (to be exact) and this is the biggest challenge. Hope your channel can ignite their interest to discover the treasure of their own heritage.
Thank you, Timothy. I wish you success with your advocacy, you're wonderful. Stay well as always.
Thank you so much!
The naive Communists of the Mao era wiped out Chinese culture with their "4 modernisations". We are the inheritors of Tang culture and the Teng Lang. I can go on and on about their cultural crimes (again Mao-era only) like destroying the Ming Dynasty Beijing city wall, allowing the pillage of the Qing tombs (Qianlong, Cixi), the destruction of classical temples and courtyard homes of landlords (Cultural Revolution is also known as the Chinese Holocaust), etc. someone in China has compiled a long list of the cultural genocide of China, extending to local languages. Every time they have social and political unrest, they wantonly destroy their heritage. What a fragile society. Just my observations.
I have ppl asking my husband why we teach our son Cantonese. We should be teaching him mandarin so that it will be easier for him to learn Chinese when he start schooling and he will automatically learn Cantonese in the future. At that time i really want to laugh at his face and say no thank you. Looking at the declining numbers of Cantonese speakers, it in itself already told us that if a language is not being used, it will slowly disappear......
It’s great that you are teaching your son Cantonese and helping to preserve it!
You did the right thing. I really cannot fathom why parents who speak Cantonese to each other speak exclusively in Mandarin to their child. They'll eventually learn in school, from friends, and from media. I have hardly ever met anyone who starts with Mandarin able to grasp the more complex tones of Cantonese, but vice versa many Canto speakers have an easier time picking up Mandarin.
@@sususegar i'm the opposite. i speak English with my husband and speak Cantonese with my son😂
sometimes we hear: learn mandarin is better, more worth it!
As the malay proverb goes: BAHASA JIWA BANGSA (language is the soul of a people). Not only the malay people, I think no any ethnic races in the world will throw away their mother tongues.
Except chinese who always boast of 5000 years of culture, yet they are throwing away their 1500+ year-plus mother tongues (Hokkien/Cantonese/Hakka) for modern standard mandarin which only has at most 100 year history.
We learn our mother tongue because it is our DUTY, pride, not because it is "more worth it" or not. If we use "more worth it", then many languages in the world, including Mandarin, will need to be eliminated. Only one language is necessary to exist: ENGLISH
I completely agree with you!!
I agree 100% I am very proud hokkien
Fabulous!
I only speak Mandarin in places where Cantonese not lingua Franca that also I will start with Hokkien . Wah beh hiau kong Hokkien. Eh sai kong Hua ee ber?
I think it's good that you are starting to learn Hokkien!
As a malay who dont speak any Chinese, i always paying attention to any chinese speaking chinese 😂😂 whether they're speaking non mandarin or not😂😂😂
In Indonesia, the Jawanese complaint that Bahasa Indonesia was created from Bahasa Melayu Riau already put Bahasa Jawa in decline.
@etloo1971 bahasa jawa is a very complex language just like most of languages spoken in javanese island and neighbouring island!!! All of the languages has it own social hierarchy... If you to your elderly you have to you use different language... So complex
Singapore no hope lah😂😂
Yes canto is also in danger 😂
Just take up religious name.
Huh?