Are vacuum tubes worth it?
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- Опубликовано: 10 авг 2018
- Vacuum tubes are the original amplification devices. How do they stack up against modern solid-state transistors, especially in audio systems? And check out our newest RUclips channel / @octaverecordsanddsdst... Octave Records.
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I'm a builder of boutique guitar amplifiers - been doing it for quite awhile. (As a matter of fact, I build a model called "The Nipper," a 16-watter with a 10" speaker.) A guitar amplifier is actually only a part of the instrument known as the electric guitar, and it has its own characteristics to add to the total package. For the guitar, "accurate reproduction" is not the goal, since there is no "playback" of recorded material involved, but rather the production of music in realtime. Amps with all-tube signal paths have been the standard since dirt was rocks and Moby Dick was only a sardine. Guitar amps are routinely operated beyond their specifications, i.e., driven into distortion. The effects which come into play inside a magnetically saturated output transformer are *desirable,* and aren't "designed out" of guitar amps like they are in tube hi-fi equipment. Mr. McGowan is absolutely right - tubes should be used where their characteristics produce the desired results - and so should solid-state devices. There is a reason why beat-to-death 50+ year-old Fender guitar amps sell for danger money, and that reason is TONE. If you have a favorite guitar player, chances are pretty good he uses a tube amplifier. (For instance, Eric Clapton, Derek Trucks, Joe Bonamassa, Warren Haynes, John Mayer, Jimi Hendrix...a pretty well endless list.) Guitarists actually "play" the amplifier by controlling how much distortion is added to the tone, varying this in realtime by operating the guitar's controls and changing the pick angle and force sometimes several times in a second. Feedback - done on purpose - is also a desirable characteristic in a tube amplifier. Transistor amps don't do any of this very well, and that's why many *experienced* players don't use them. Yes, there are digital emulations of "classic" designs, but they sound like, well...emulations. Close, but no cigar. I'm not an engineer, and I'll be the first to admit that I know damn little about "high-end audio." I figure if it kicks ass and no smoke comes out of it, I did it right. ;-)
Paul is absolutely right when it comes to tube line stages and input sections being the best, and transistor based output sections being the best. At least imho. Definitely for hifi, but imho for guitar amps too.
Consistently the best sounding guitar tones i can make, are tube preamps, into the Effects loop return of an old randall rh150g3 metal amplifier head's tube buffered mosfet power amp. Years ago i discovered this, and i've had a lot of amps, all tube, all solid state, modeling into powered speakers now too. Ive built my own clones of some of the old greats, I keep coming back to my various tube preamp stomps and rack pre's into that mosfet power amp.
The current "best version yet" of my home hi-fi setup is a class A all tube preamp, into a good class D power amplifier. It's everything ive ever been after with musicality, soundstage, tonality and then some. A made a version of the preamp for a friend of mine's old solid state onkyo integrated from the early 80s after i recapped it and ditched all the unnecessary electrolytic i could. Whole new life into it.
Any chance i can get, i set up a tube front end with solid state power. There is just something about the combination that, as Paul puts it, is very hard to beat, nigh impossible. Im not after a classic sound necessarily, just what sounds best to my ears and thats it. I get quite a few compliments whenever i do play out as well, admittedly quite rare now a days though.
im actually considering reworking my current hifi preamp design into a single channel single ended preamp for my guitar, it's plenty quiet enough and has plenty of gain for it with a nice smooth clip. And starting from a known mosfet single channel power topology i can tweak to make my own guitar head unit thats everything im after in a single box. Hell i may tear the power section out of that old over the top randall thing and use it. 150 watts of clean headroom right there.
Line 6 made the spyder valve amps yeaaaars ago that had a bad wrap, mainly from people that never even tried them. I owned a combo, played several of the stacks. They had digital modelled effects running through an all tube front end, and a Tube buffered mosfet power section i believe. Those things sounded absolutely incredible at bedroom volume, and they sounded exactly the same at ear splitting volumes. I sold the combo planning to buy a half stack, but they discontinued them and i still havent seen one for sale locally anywhere. Which has bummed me out.
Anyhoo, if the market wouldn't have recoiled at the thought of what those line 6's were without even trying them based in some pretentious principle of thought, i probably wouldnt have to hack together my own version of it. And it would probably be quite a popular setup today. Anyone i have listen to music on, OR play guitar though such a setup are pretty much universally blown away with how musical it is, ESPECIALLY when it's not just trying to sound like something else, but simply a good guitar sound, or a good music sound.
Learnt so much over the last few years watching Paul , grazie .
Hi Sir, I've learned so many things watching your videos. I'm new to hi res audio and just purchased my first DAC/AMP and headphones. You've helped me understand how it all works and I just can't stop watching and learning all this stuff. Thanks so much!
You can NEVER get that kind of warm, real and intimate Vocals produced by tubes using solid state. Period.
Came for the advice and stayed for the coolest desk I’ve seen! What a cool dude he is. You can tell not only he knows his stuff but the passion he has for it!
First time viewer and already subscribe.
My favorite thing about older tech is just how customizable it is
And also how it might not work perfectly but it'll always going to try
Paul you are right about reverb in tubes. Remember years ago that Pioneer made a tube room helper, I forgot what you call it but I still have one somewhere. You hook it up to your stereo and it gives the music a much fuller sound ! They made several variations of it. I’d love to hear what you think about these music pieces as they do work. I can remember in High School my friend had a Kenwood stereo with a pair of Klipsch shop made speakers with one of those hooked up and I always was so impressed with what it would do to his little stereo. It brought it to life ! It was nothing without that Pioneer hooked up. Anyway just remembering things we all did for the Music ! Keep up the educational videos !
Thank you for the explanation!!! I do have tube pre-amp.
And then we have the pure joy of tube-rolling. It's so satisfying finding good old NOS tubes that sounds so different than the original tubes, and sometimes undoubtedly improving the sound, and sometimes not. But when it does work out, it is so satisfying... Just to have that capability just within the device itself is sort of comforting. I don't have to buy whole new gear to change the sound, just tinker a little. And I haven't even ever used a tube power amp. Just pre-amps and RIAA-stages and the like.
True, rather difficult to do transistor rolling LOL. I have done the gambit from 450 watt mosfet to KT88 / el34 250 watt power amps. So much is dependent on the speaker type. Owner of an IRS Beta, current sucking 1.8 ohm monster set of loud speakers with a direct comparison. Tubes were so much better (sound) than the transistors. The woofers columns were better with transistor or mosfet amplification. It was after this revelation I learned about the true benefits of 2nd order harmonics. Now I still use tubes but the speakers are with a 108dB sensitivity so triodes rule the the last stage at a whopping 4 watts, which since the woofers are self powered is twice what is needed. So again it is all about the speaker and your ear.
I've been looking for old TV's and radios. I would be thrilled if I could find some old 12ax7's or el34's.
Interesting. What you say makes a whole lot of sense. Very well explained. I grew up in a radio station family. After years operating tube transmitters our station purchased a Nautel FM transmitter. In this high power application the new sound of the station is exquisite.
I just got my first tube amp last month. A Marshall dsl20 head. Pretty cool. I had been using line6 spider amps for years. The sound the tubes make is undescribable.
wait till you swap v1 for a proper nos tube like a mullard or ge...enjoy
Great Video - reminds me of the best sound I ever heard... Knew someone about 25 years ago who in my opinion had the clearest & loudest system I ever heard in his warehouse loft. Room filled with foam 2'x4' panel (exciter) speakers (about 30) and 2 subs (home built also) - he said he spent Just under $2,000 I remember for all - He would switch between a Tube Amp and Solid and the warmth and dimension from the tube was just incredible. I remember it feeling like I was smack in the middle of an orchestra. Even (to me) sounded better than the Disney sound experience where they spent $2M in the room. I really credited his sound to his tube configuration. Wish I knew exactly what is was... But yes, to each his own when it comes to sound.
I love your videos Paul!!!
There is no such thing as "which is better." Its personal. Its what makes you feel better while listening. Some will actually feel better knowing that a certain distortion level is .0001. For me? Tube preamp, Class D amplifier. For you? Find out. Make a few mistakes along the way to discover what fits you the best. We are here to learn what? What the differences are, and what choices exist. Thanks, Paul for your lessons which are excellent.
Tube preamp into any power amp is the way to go!
Thanks for this clarification ! Very interesting.
When I was growing up, tubes were on their way out and nobody was really sorry to see them go. The goal was to reproduce sound sound as accurately as possible without adding, subtracting, or coloring the music, to get as close to the live performance as possible. Then, if it was necessary to tune the response (or even to adjust for taste) there were bass, sometimes midrange, and treble controls. If one wanted to get crazy, one could get a graphic equalizer with up 19 frequency bands.
When I started out, there was Hi-Fi, then came stereo, then stereo with a middle channel, then quadraphonic, then surround sound 5.1 and THX. Still, the idea was to make one feel like they were in a live music venue, whether a concert hall or a smaller setting like a pub.
Somewhat later, there was the shift from analog (vinyl) to digital (compact disc) and later compact disc with compression (mp3, etc.). With enough bits, a high enough sampling rate, and really good quality (low phase shift) ADC and DAC, it is impossible to tell the difference by ear (except for the LACK of the noise and distortion inherent in vinyl) and nearly impossible to tell even with electronic measurement devices.
So, now you all want to go back to having coloration to the music that for decades we were trying to get rid and spending thousands of dollars to do so. I can't help but be amused. Get a high end solid state amp and DAC, add a control board with parametric EQ and adjustable attack, delay, and reverb and you can color your sound any way you like it.
Odd harmonics will never beat the warmth of even
But without a tube preamp you will never get realistic sound. Guess how I know. I play and record real music.
@@peterbaugh51 If the music is recorded accurately and then played back as faithfully as possible, what difference does it make which electronics are used? Sure, you can "color" the playback to whatever suits your taste. But, that is not reproducing the music, that is corrupting it.
You can listen to different solid state amps and each one will sound a bit different. You can listen to different speakers and these will sound different. People will listen to different gear and choose what sounds best to them. If all speakers were the same there would be no need for different brands. If all amps sounded the same there would be no need for more than one brand. I think what they wanted to do was keep up with Japan in the race to develop a transistor. They had a whole new product to market and sell. All about the sales (money). There was a time when everything was done in mono. Then stereo became something new to sell people on. However, mono has a better sound. Many people think tubes sound better. Many people like solid state. With solid state amps came more power. Then they could sell people on the need for more power. You need a 100 wpc amp. A 30wpc amp will drive most speakers to a loud volume. This is all subjective. Only the listener can decide what sounds best to him/her. This guy might try making some audio demos of his amps. I do not care about all the talk. Let hear it~!
Consumers shifted from CRT Tubes and largely rejected Plasma for LCD screens which were the worst display option because they prioritized less heat, weight and thinness over raw PQ. Consumers will always value convenience over quality. It’s revisionist to say tubes were rejected for their sound and not being more of a pain to upkeep & companies also looking to save a dime on cheaper transistor manufacturing. Whichever style you like is fine but there is one truth, you can’t “equalize” a solid state into a true tube sound anymore then you can play with the picture settings on an LCD and get it to look like an OLED.
I really love my Valvestate marshall combo. Groove tube-preamp and FET power amp.
This explains a lot.
I love tubes in preamp or buffers. Solid state amps in Main system. Second system runs an el34 integrated.
It seems the best use of tubes is in the preamplifier stages as you say.
I love my tube Decware system. The first time I realized the difference was the Van Halen catalog. I had read that VH and VH2 were recorded on tube equipment. I also read that Eddies' home studio was originally built with an old tube system and used on the album 1984. Then Eddie yanked it out and went all solid state for the album 5150. I didn't know this but remember buying 5150 on lp and thinking "why does this sound so polished and blah unlike 1984?" Now I know the reason why, tubes.
The main sound difference in tubes is that, when the impedance goes above 8ohm, the tube sends more wattage; and since this usually happens in the bass region of ported speakers, that’s why they are more warm sounding.
Oh wow ! Interesting. Thanks.
Airplaine wings as desktop :)
or even better, a transformer desk? lol ;-)
:D
Cool but the dang pencils keep rolling off!
Note aircraft photo...are those Amelia Earhart wings?
Not a great writing surface though. All the rivet bumps play havoc with the paper.
It's a shame the person who made the wooden inserts couldn't make them fit properly at the front.
I really like your videos on tubes & class D amps.
Every professional, semi-professional or just good guitar player knows that the best guitar amplifiers have tube power sections. Unlike like regular amps we want that grit and imperfection. It is what makes guitar amps great and why guitar players pay 2k and up for an all tube(pre-amp, power section and rectifier) hand built guitar amplifier.
Goodbye eardrums at 5:06.
Personal experience so I thought I'd share. The tube rollers. Those lucky few who know what their doing and like to roll those tubes. I agree with your comments. True, rather difficult to do transistor rolling, LOL. On power amps tube verses mosfet: I have done the gambit from 450 watt 4 ohm mosfet amps Hafler DH500 & XL600 to KT88 / El34 / el34 250 watt Audio Valve Challenger power amps. So much is dependent on the speaker type. Owner of an IRS Beta, current sucking 1.8 ohm monster set of loud speakers as a direct comparison. Tubes were so much better, sound wise, imaging, dimensional presence, fluid, with the tubes. The woofers columns were better with mosfets, impact, raw punch, 15Hz no problem. It was after this comparison, revelation I learned about the true benefits of 2nd order harmonics. Now I still use tubes but the speakers are Avantgarde Duos with a 103dB sensitivity so triodes rule the the last stage at a whopping 4 watts, which since the woofers are self powered 4 watts has plenty of headroom with twice what is needed. So again it is great part about the speaker and your ear. I 'm going to say this was not just my opinion rather universal with all who listened. So there that as well.
You go Paul, "Sell the Sizzle, not the Steak"!! As in "We like to make Magic!" Great explanation of tube vs transistors!!
so where do you put your tubes in your design? rectifier? amplifier? preamp?
Great answer. I like the way you described the worthiness of both vaccum and solid state electronics.
I told folks for years that a "hybrid" amplifier (containing both tube and solid state devices) will be your best sounding audio equipment, if...... If it was designed properly to begin with. Not all tube amps or even hybrid tube amps are made the same, they are far from. I've heard some tube set ups that just didn't sound right, and some setups that will blow you away. I prefer the warm sound of the tubes versus solid state only....
nipper is such a good boy.....thanks Paul
Should I get a Little Bear B4 tube pocket amp?
Wooooww Lyon ?!! Damn I never thought that I'd hear about my city in a non-french video 😁
As a guitar player for 41 years, I've had and do still have both valve amps and solid state amps. I use amps that are fit for my current application. Occasionally, I use both types at the same time. Using a A/B switch I select the correct amp for the tone desired. However, I find that the speakers and the enclosure they ride in are the biggest impact on overall tone.
I've had prominent local musicians fool themselves into thinking I was playing through a valve amp at a gig, when it was, in fact, a transistor design.
In the first instance people listen with their eyes.
This is the correct answer.
Tubes add to the sound. If you want something added to the sound, that's fine but better is mostly subjective and if we're talking about purity of signal (which is what most audiophiles are after), tubes ain't it.
I have a tube hybrid pre-amp now and love it. Before that, a tube pre-amp and loved it. I also had a tube hybrid power amp. Loved it too, but finally went solid state. But I just don't have it in my to tube roll any more or spend money buying tubes. I guess if I could have what I want and don't have to worry about maintaining it, it would be tubes.
There's Op amps and Discrete op amps now to worry about :D
Vaccume tubes are made by elves in hollowed out trees. They contain a little bit of fudge in them. It's what gives them that sweet sound
So so much talk about vacuum tubes but I have not seen anyone explain what speakers are needed for them. Speakers also play an important role, but we are not talking about specific models for this. Thanks for the invested and beautiful video.
usually tube power amps are smaller so high sensitivity speakers are recommended. above 90 db
Well, the video grabbed me within the first 7 seconds! Great video!
What an insightful answer, I’ve never had the solid-state versus tube conversation boiled down to such a simple answer… BTW, would that be considered a “low pressure” desk at PS Audio :)
If you put a vacuum tube behind a sound proof enclosure, would you say it still sounds better than transistor amplified sound? I tend to appreciate tube sound and one of the reasons I've heard tube sound being better is that it handles peaks better, where with solid state you get clipping.
My understanding was that selecting one or the other was largely a matter of what characteristics of the harmonics you are after. In music production, I tend to use tube preamps and tube emulation plugins for gentler saturation, when I'm after some compression, and a little bit of grit / thickness. I listened to an interview of a tube preamp manufacturer who is convinced that the primarily even order harmonics produced when recording sources with strong transients might sound more music / less dissonant than some of the harmonics produced by solid state devices, which stands to reason, although I am certainly not too precious about this. I like the sound of many solid state circuits as well!
I like your table :) Great video too. Thanks!
Great episode 👍
I still buy most of my music in HMV 😉
I'm gonna chicken out on the valve thing 😂
Solid state has its particular applications. Quilters sound great for jazz. JC120's sound great for squeaky clean stuff--the Smiths, for example. But tube amps sound good/great doing anything.
I have learned so much from this remarkable man! Peace from Detroit MI.
*Nostalgia is like a falsely coloured vibrant rainbow, which was always just black and white. I am currently contemplating the Tubes Vs* *Solid State amps, but I think how I can rationalise it bottom line is that just like I transitioned from VHS to DVD, Cassette > CD >MP3 you* *will always find your heart whatever you grew up with. Trust your ears and be open minded but always temper everything with wisdom.*
thank you Paul
Howdy.
Whatever one finds is fun and/or appealing is worth it. Within budget of course.
I built a 2 x 35 W tube PA. I use my Yamaha headset jack to drive it. It sounds ok. I feel a degree of vintage enchantment and satisfaction having mastered basic tube amp. designing skills. Sometimes I re-experience the sensations of excitement I had when commissioning the PA. So yeah. For me tubes are worth it.
Usually one plays music for his own pleasure and not for the THD meter.
Regards.
Hey Paul,
do you know anything about holophonics and binaural recording?
id love to hear your opinions on this subject, a lot of mystery surrounds it.
cheers.
KR audio vacuum tubes are not microphonic they use a special glass to eliminate this.
I was thinking I'm getting there preamp very good the p135 how would that run with your power amps have you tested? I would like to go through Solid State has to be multiple channel because I'm running it through an ASP. struggling what type of power amp i should use.
Love your videos. Old Submarine Sonar Tech. Never thought my training on Tubes would be appreciated(Just like my old trade of Typewriter Service)
Dynaco rig right now(PAS3X/ST70VTA).
Isnt it great that we have the option of tube and solid state amplification, to choose from. To pick which most appeals to our ears and tastes, visual impact, sonic qualities and so on. Progress leading us toward bigger and better things all the time, but never forgetting where we have come from. What a pity the S/S vs glass debate is so corrosive and divisive, even though it leads to the same eventual outcome for all of us, ie; sonic perfection. At least, within the confines of the depth of our wallets, we have that choice to make.
I still have a couple of mono block tube power amps not using them , waiting for the right preamp to come along. I'm tired of having to recap everything . I wanted to set them up as guitar amps. Just don't have the ambition anymore
What beginner tube amplifier would you recommend?
One of the best bass guitar amps I've ever played through so far is my old 1975-1976 non-reverb Fender Super Twin amp, it's an all tube guitar amplifier that uses a total of six 6L6 power tubes in the power amp circuit, it is capable of putting-out 180W RMS, or a whopping 395W peak into speaker loads of a minimum of 4 Ohms, my Ibanez Soundgear 6-String bass sounds really fat and warm through the Super Twin which I have connected up to my old Peavey 410TX 4 X 10 inch bass cab.
ps audio uses SS [current amplifiers] and tubes [voltage amplifiers] where appropriate and in different applications. Paul thanks for your highly boulderized informative videos.
Traditionally, you tend to get very simple circuits with tubes because although you can sprinkle transistors in wherever there's a benefit, you can't just keep adding tubes for small performance gains.
Tube rolling can change your sound immensely.I Have also never heard a hint of feedback out of my mono block Primaluna amps. My KHorn AK6’s are fairly close to my amps, and with my Rega P10 and Apheta 3 they are by far a sweeter sound than my M Levinson solid state amp.
I am new to this, completely, should I get a tube preamp and get a modern amplifier?
Thank you for sharing, very informative.
The most important stage in a tube amplifier was the output transformers to couple the high impedance of the tube to the low impedance of the speakers. Also depended on the efficiency of the speakers and how loud you wanted to hear your music. Tubes are good in the pre-amp section of the amp because they are voltage operated and have a better transient response than transistors, they are faster. But a small chip of silicon is much cheaper than the manufacturing that goes into making a vacuum tube.
Great video... Technically I think a tube Power amplifier would suffer very high THD, though this distortion is rather "soft"... Probably why tube lovers enjoy them, for their character
Paul was very good at explaining this situation. Your comment is in fact very accurate. Tubes do not impose "high THD" but a very low single digit 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion that is very pleasing to the ear. If an unaware listener is presented with tubes or very low THD solid state electronics the tubes will win every time. That does not mean it's accurate. If a listener is presented with tubes or live music in a blind test the tubes will win every time.
Just watched this video, and while it was very interesting as all your videos are. ( such a relaxed way of answering questions, even if I cant follow all the complexity of high end audio)
I was more interested in your desk!!! From the plane that is in the pic by Nippers ear??? Can you give me some more info?? Bet using a mouse over rivots is a pain!!!
I have a set of Horning Alkibiades speakers, and I've been struggling, to get them to produce deep dry bass.. They each have a 12" Beyma 12G40 woofer with an EBP around 150, and Lowther DX4 / Lotus tweeter.. I've tried so many solid state amps.. mosfet mono blocks.. the list goes on and on.. I also tried SET tube amps, 845, 300b's … The only amp, I think does the job is a EL34 based power amp.. The bass is just incredible, so deep and dry.. It really sounds amazing…..
Tubes are also better than solid state devices at maintaining voltage during temperature transitions. Modern zener diodes can vary quite considerably based on ambient temp whereas tubes are essentially self-heating.
And as such, good circuit designers will not apply zeners in situations where the temperature change matters.
i love my recapped fisher kx 200 all tube and use my luxman lv 105u alot love the sound
bronson osborne i have a fisher 800c i rebuilt. I love it.
I build all my amplifiers, guitar amps, hifi amps etc. Tube circuitry doesn't seem that sensitive to funky wiring, just find the error and fix it. Hence I opt for all out tube circuitry.
Wow! I just realized what that desk is made from.
Just wow.
It hit me with about 30 seconds to spare in the video 🙂
I like the retro look. So decided to build a vacuum tube amplifier. Going for cosmetic vs cheap or modern. Steam punk style. I miss the old Zenith counsel TVs.
This is a question for the ages. It’s like asking “Vinyl or CD?” Ask 5 people and you’ll get 8 opinions!
Awesome post 🥰 Le de forrest would be proud.
And after all it all comes down to the fact that it depends on the person who is listening the system, whether it's a pair of cans and a headphone amp or a pair of speakers and a power amp. In the end we all ( I suppose) share this hobby, because we like listening our favorite music through our preferred system. Some people like the sound of tubes, some people don't, so that determines if the tubes are worth it or not for the person who is considering to get tubes into their system chain. I would just advice to try to get to listen different systems in the neighborhood or maybe at a hifi exhibition. In this hobby people can share the knowledge what is better by the numbers and physics and in which cases some components are better over the other ones, but no one can strictly tell someone else what sounds better than something else, because it is a matter of taste and you cannot argue about taste. we all want to fulfill our passion and find our ways to the perfect system of our own, which is not the same for everyone.
And magic is individual. Have Avantgarde horn speakers, used NAIM audio equipment in the beginning. But due to the high sensitivity (104db) it did not work at all. Now own E.A.R Yoshino Pre amp and Power amp, Satisfaction guaranteed!!
The old Germanium Transistors can sound very tube like :-)
Good video, Hasn't anyone tried making a very high voltage solid state amplifier where the output is transformed like a valve amp? wouldn't that give you that "warmth" (damping) of a valve amplifier without the microphoney ?
a major thing that somehow gets overloked: there is a form of distortion called clipping. if an amplifier runs out of voltage the waveform stops climbing when you hit the limit of available voltage. this flat tops the original waveform. it alters the waveform in a very unmusical way.
a transistor does not approach clipping. it slams into it full speed. it turns a musical sound into a harsh buzz. it generates odd numbered multiple of the original frequencies. it turns the waveform into a square wave.
tube type amplifiers generate even numbered multiples of the original frequency before they clip. this has exactly the opposite effect it makes the waveform peakier. it turns the waveform into a triangle wave. the strings on violins and other bowed instruments generate triangle waves.
this causes the tone difference between tube amps and transistor amps
I'm currently working on a diy scratch-build tube guitar amp project, it is basically a 50W version of the Soldano SLO 100, which I call the Sloclone 50, I'm going to be using two matched JJ KT 77 tubes in the power amp and five 12AX7 tubes in the preamp, the circuitry will be built on some 28 X 2 Tagboards I bought online from Evatco.
put a vintage mullard i63 (1965-1974) in the drive channels preamp (v2?), it has the richest low mids known to man .enjoy!
Hi!
Can an Audio Research pair of VM220's, drive Magnepans MG3.7i;
Thank you! 😊
You didn't mention that whether or not they're 'better' or 'worse'... some people like me just prefer tube sound.. and the fact I like seeing all the tubes light up ... maybe the benefit is just placebo... I don't care... I love the whole tube experience....
Hi Paul, Are you saying that amps like Prima Luna and VAC, which use tubes as power amps aren't as good as SS power amps?
in conclusion Paul , are you saying that the perferct compo is a solid state drive with a tube preamp???
This combo works for me, fantastic sound
Yes, and no. You can have a power amp with tubes, but the INPUT stage of said amp can be tubed, but the OUTPUT be solid state. If you notice in an all tube amp, such as a Dynaco stereo 70, they use several types of tubes, the small tubes in use would be like the 12AX7 are for the input stage, accepting the signal from the preamp and something like the KT88 for the OUTPUT stage, but in a hybrid system the input is still the 12AX7, but the output is solid state. So in essence, you still get the sonic benefits of tubes, but the quickness of speed/attack of solid state.
To me separates are the way to go, tube preamp into SS power amp class A, A/B or D
Tube for Voltage gain mosfet for output stage.
John h Palmer Could define input stage for me please? Does an amplifier have an input stage, or is it the preamp section of an integrated amp?
According to Dave Berning, who has been an engineer in the electronic device NIST unit, tubes have far superior to most solid state devices, especially the triode tubes, in the area of transfer linearity, as demonstrated with curve tracing oscilloscopes. At best, FET transistors are comparable to that of pentode tubes. Dave Berning grew up in the transistor era, but as an exercise during the petroleum shortage crisis while guiding energy efficient amplifiers, gravitated to tubes for its ruggedness in terms of dealing with electrical spikes in delivered power sources. At this time, a young lady brought to him a Fisher integrated tube amplifier for checkout. During setup for a listening test, he found the sound to be an astonishing ear opener. This, his transition to the tube arena.
Solid state or hybrid guitar amps sound great till you put the real deal next to them. Tubes rule!
True blue vacuum tube guitar amps have a much, much lower listener (guitar player?) fatigue than their solid state counterpart. Found out back in 1992 after playing a solid state Carlsbro amp for 20 minutes and my ear and brain sarted tl hurt likr hell. Yet I can play for 8 hours straight or even three days non stop on a 1965 Fender Twin with NOS Sylvania 6L6 vacuum tubes.
Depending on the genre. Metal often times sound better on transistor amps like the one of Dimebag from Pantera.
Felix TheCat
Dimebags tone was shit and so is most metal. Scooped mids, high treble, and not enough bass sounds bad coming from any amp.
@@ryanwilson5936 No its not. Every technology has advantages and disadvantages. Tube ist warmer and creamer suitable for Blues, Indie, 60s sound and so on. But the disadvantage of tube is slower response time and sag. Transistor sounds colder but also reacts more clear and faster which is better for metal sound. But i prefer tube amps personally.
For sure
OK lets get this straight. High fidelity is about producing the most accurate sound of the source. Vinyl ,CD,Tape or whatever. The salesman in the shop was trying to convince your correspondent that modern solid state/digital amps are as good as valve/tube amps for producing THAT guitar tone that we all know and love. No way!! At least not yet.As I see it, the job of the HIFI industry is to try and bring the sound of the performance into your home and is totally separate from musical instrument amplifier design.
The French guitar salesman was doing his salesman job, nothing more, nothing less. The last 5 years have seen astonishing progress with mosfets used to mimic tubes for guitar amplification and I have been buying up dozens of these 'platform' pedals to compare against the vintage amps they attempt to model, and the conclusion is: 'not there yet'. There is a choked midrange and 'grayness' with the transistor versions compared to the tubed originals. I concluded that Mosfets have a 'sound' just as tubes do. Despite the advantages in portability I will not be leaving the tube amps at home. Once you've heard and played the best why would you settle for not quite as good?
Properly controlled grid plate voltage = musical nirvana.. BTW, we used the same grade of airplane aluminum for our front and top wings in our Sprint cars.
The original painting of Nipper had an Edison Bell cylinder class M machine, and it was painted over with the Berliner Gramophone. Many say even a Nipper expert that it is not on a casket. I though had a nipper calendar from 1912 or so, that clearly showed the casket underneath, tables don't have long coved lids, this calendar was produced by the Victor Talking Machine Co. Nipper was Francis Barraud's Brother's dog, painted in 1898 and he inherited him and an Edison Bell Phonograph. The original painting made more sense, as the cylinder machine, had a dual purpose Edison Standard-Speaker recorder, where you could record with the recorder arm down where the recording sapphire comes into contact with the blank and then put up against an adjusting lug, for playing the cylinder. Francis offered the painting to the British Edison company, and Mr. Hewitt said: "Dogs, Don't Listen to Phonographs." Francis went to the Gramophone Co. and they liked the concept but asked for the Edison machine to be painted over with the current model of Gramophone.
Hi , another great informative video, whist I was working for the Metropolitan Police’, back in late 80s early 99s I was involved installing new high band main radio system even then we had hybrid transmitters made by FKI Burndepr , it had transistor driver and valve - tube PA . I fully like the idea of re insurgence if tube amps and preamps , I fully concour that you get a more mellow sound compared to transistors pa . I am looking forward in having a tube- valve pre amp. Regards mark
I would get soo frustrated every time my pen rolls off the front of that desk
+1 for tubes (so many variants).
Hey Paul, thanks for the continued great videos (I realize this one is years old now, but I still watch regularly)! Are those desks airplane wings?? Can we get the story behind them in some future video? Thanks!
That was a long time ago, but yers, they are airplane wings and my son, Rob, made those for us. Cool, right?
on valves human voice and sound staging takes some beating I have VTL 150 watt power valve power amp tight bass ultra clean that is a amp with a lot of current I also have a singke ended 12 watt which is very good
the question itself is incomplete and it is impossible to discuss. My answer is: yes solid state amps are better, and yes valve amps are better. It is just a nonsense because all depends on what loudpseakers you drive with that amp. If you find the best sinergy with the right loudspeaker, a solid state amp could be the best possible, compared to a mismatched valve amp-wrong loudspeaker. But with the best sinergy with the right loudspeaker, a valve amp could be the best possible. So it is not depending on the amp quality itself but related to sinergy with loudpeakers (and other aspects too)
How nice, you are repeating everything Paul said.
For example the internal impedance of tubes are higher than in the transistors (there are good enough JFET also BJT). So a JFET is a equivalent of tube bit with low impedance. The impedance determinate the thermal noise specially at low signals. The comparison is complicated topic. When you set a transistor in the right place and in the right working point it can be driven even except a negative feedback. For me it primary depends on design but for low noise preamplifier the tube is a most noisier compared to the transistor input. That is why there are no good examples of RIAA tube preamps (I will not comment the transformer impedance solution) for MC cartridge.
Again... Well put. They have purpose.
I would think that tubes and FETs convert changes in voltages to changes in current; BJTs can either convert changes in current to larger changes in current, or convert changes in voltage to similar changes in voltage while reducing output impedance. Op amps are often connected in a way that converts changes in voltage to changes in voltage, but can also support other operations as well.
A difference between tube amplifiers and transistor amplifiers that I've seldom seen mentioned, and never really discussed, is that most modern transistor amplifiers are designed to output more power into lower impedances than into higher ones, but many tube amplifiers are designed to output more current into higher impedances. This is why tube amplifiers will often over-stress the output transformer when run open-circuit (they want to output maximum power, but with no speaker to absorb the energy the transformer has to take it all), while transistor amplifiers don't mind running open circuit but are stressed by short-circuit conditions. The way amplifiers react to output impedance would seem to have a big effect on how they interact with resonance in speaker cabinets, crossover networks, etc. For high-fidelity or PA applications such interactions may not be desirable, but for a guitar amp I would think they could help define a characteristic sound.
Transformer is not a power consumer except some loses. Opening secondary side results in increase of output impedance, and decrease of tubes load. The same in mains transformer switching off receiver does not force transformer to take the load which was removed. Transformer works with minimum current then. .
A transformer which is in its useful operating region will not consume much power, but a transformer which goes into saturation will act like a low value DC resistor for a portion of each cycle. This can quickly result in destructive overheating.
Transformer with the secondary load disconnected is a big inductor. If you turn up the volume on the amp (if you do not know that speakers are disconnected, when no sound comes out, you just turn it up), at some point the tube will be going from saturation to cutoff. Inductance does not like such change in current and will produce huge voltage spikes (working kinda like the ignition coil of a car) that can damage the output tube or insulation of the transformer.
On the other hand, you can run a tube amp with a shorted output usually without problems, as the tube will not produce more current (so it will produce very little power).
It is a personal choice . . . I had a classic highly rated power amplifier, and it sounded sweet, but after a period of listening and then going back to my transistor amplifier, I thought the tubes superficial in producing a “sugar high” where the transistor amp had more reality and detail. As I said -- personal choice. If that is your taste -- bon appetit!
I got a Yamaha RX-V1500 (2005) Paired with a pre-amp Vacuüm tube which is very upcoming! (ali-express)
modern pre-amps even with bluetooth, remote control, different modes, bass treble regulation and so on!
For a little bit of money you can get better sound is my opinion. better bass low's and mids to a receiver or for sure by a cheap stereo setup is my experience.
I love the sound of a good tube even a 6j1 or 6j5 one (Custom, tubes) in every situation! Music, films, games and so on. Tubes FTW!
I like my tube and SS amps; each function well in their respective systems. Would I trade my SS for more tubes, yes! Would I trade my tubes for SS, no way José.
Ahh Paul said the tubes they use are in the input stage. I wonder if 2 tubes are used in conjunction to a mosfet operation?
Wow..i like your videos a lot..im doing research on tubes amp vs solid state..you once said about linearity..is that different with headroom??
are they worth for digital synths?