When You Are The Best Player Ever But Not The GOAT...
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
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When considering impact and significance, Djokovic's stance towards tennis players' union and advocating a system with only the player's interest at heart deserves at least a mention. Unlike him, both Federer and Nadal were indifferent regarding tennis being a sport with 10 people being filthy rich, another 90 financially secured and the remaining few thousand struggling to stay in the sport, being dependent or indebted or even doing day jobs, which speaks volumes about their character. Especially because tennis is the only out of 4 major world-popular sports where the financial distribution of profits is around 30% towards players. At Grand Slams is even lower, they distribute about 10-15% of their earnings into prize money.
Novak is a very good human being first then he is undoubtedly the GOAT.....❤
❤❤
I believe he's doing it to have a career after tennis. Not in the interest of other players. He's never been that type of person
@@distico You belive also in flat Earth?
@@djordjespasic2179 why do you say that? nole is never been such a kind type of person. stop trolling
@@distico Djokovic just wants to help any way he can. He is well known for his philanthropy, giving tens of millions of euros to hospitals, treatment of sick children, schools, students, churches, and others in need in Serbia.
He spoke about how after his retirement he will stay involved with tennis, run his academy, write memoirs, enjoy life with his family, travel the world, things like that, and he clearly said many times he does not want to get involved in politics as he believes he will best help through philanthropy.
You can believe that he is doing everything for himself, it's your opinion. He actually is a good man who wants to give back to his nation and help the sport that gave him everything.
If you took the stats difference between Novak and Fed and made it a player it would be a career of a top 30 player of all time.
In terms of titles? Weeks at number 1? Would it not be a top 5 or top 10 player of all time?
@@ada5851 true, it would basically be andy murray
@@BOZ_11Bro. The stat difference. Novak has 24 Slams and Roger 20. That difference is 4, similar to Murray.
you aren't wrong here. 4 GS, 12 masters, 1 Olympic gold, 1 ATP finals and 3 year end no 1. Great career indeed.
@@BOZ_11 is your iq above 60?
I'm an heretic spaniard who rooted for Federer instead of Nadal. Federer is the player I have enjoyed tennis the most with, and although I love Nadal as he has given a lot to my country, I couldn't resist myself as Federer was not only a tennis player but an artist.
But let's get real. The Joker is the best player of all time and it is not even close.
because of the slowing condition and a lot of factors Best player of this generation but GOAT surely not
What dumb statement.you have to play what you have to play.its utter nonsense.there is nothing else they could have done except play after put forward@@cpt-r.federer5940
"and it is not even close." yeah, you lost me there
@@BOZ_11 u cant even beat him on a single statistic excpet the carrer titles of 250 titles
@@vypervfx7519 A few, actually. Most consecutive weeks at #1, the only player to win two majors 5 years in a row. Most Wimbledon titles, most Wimbledon finals, and the all-time highest grass win rate.
I would add Rafa back into the debate. Rafa arguably had the most setbacks, facing both prime Roger and Novak, along with dozens of injuries in which he had to make insane comebacks literally every year.
And his obvious incredible runs in Roland Garros.
He has better stats than Roger, and is closer to Novak than we may think.
All statistics indicate that Federer is better than Nadal on hard surfaces and grass surfaces Hardwood and grass floors represent more than 70% of the total hardwood, grass and dirt floors That is, Federer is better than Nadal on most surfaces, with the exception of clay, which represents less than 30% of the total surfaces.
@@mosab.2815 not at all trying to be disrespectful here but the case for Federer falls apart considering the matchups between the three greatest tennis players in existence. Statistically, it's evident that Novak and Roger are the best and most consistent Hard/Grass-court players. However by looking at the H2Hs and the most important occassions where all the three faced each other, Federer has only been the favorite against Nadal on grass and indoor hard (=by far Nadals weakest environment) (WIM 2006/07/18 vs. WIM 2008; ATP finals 2010/11 vs. 2013), while continously loosing against him at AO (2009/12/14 vs. AO 2017). Djokovic, on the contrary pretty much dominated Nadal at hard court (with the exemption being the US Open) and - although closer - on grass as well.
Assessing Djokovic vs. Federer is a little less clear on the first look. Overall, Djokovic won the most important matchups (e.g. WIM 2019), while Federer was the only one being able to stop a prime Djokovic occassionally on hard & grass courts. I would argue Federer is probably the one able to generate the highest quality of tennis on hard & grass courts in general, but, particularly mentally, faltered in the most important moments against the other two. Taking everything into perspektive, I would always give the advantage (besides of course on clay) to Djokovic which leads me to a ranking him FIRST, followed by Nadal at TWO - as he managed to beat Federer in all his favorite venues, while Federer never had the slightest chance on clay.
That's it!
(-;
@@mosab.2815 If nadal had fewer injuries and the same amount of competition as Roger/Novak, he would have eclipsed 25, maybe even 30 grand slams
he is the least versatile of the three
@@sv-bd5em yes but why is that? Because he had the most competition in his prime!
Djokovic is the goat, and Federer is the toat. Talentiest of all time xD
Talientest and Winningest 🤣 Nadal is the FOAT. Fightiest Of All Time. The Big TOADs (Big Thee Of All Time) 🐸
@@Edu2503 nole BOAT fed GOAT
@@matebreskovic5880 that's ok too, but I was joking with the TOAD thing lol
- People when Sampras had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT.
- People when Federer had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT.
- People when Nadal had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT.
- Haters when Djokovic had the Grand Slam record: IT'S NOT ABOUT NUMBERS.
BS and hypocrisy, Novak Djokovic is not only the GOAT or the best player ever. Whatever you call it, He's probably the greatest athlete ever.
The arguments against Novak are solely based on sentimentalism, not by facts.
This is tennis, not a beauty contest.
@josequintero8615 You've gone off the boil like Aussies like to say. Keep convincing yourself. Emotions absolutely matter - too bad you don't understand that.
Facts are never the end all be all for one's status as the GOAT. The greatest athlete could also be a stretch, as tennis is neither the hardest nor the most athletic sport. Many other sports are much more difficult, and people who can do well in those sports are better athletes, according to pure fact as you so solemnly swear by.
i agree easily the goat athlete, no athlete can touch him, the greatest in and out.
Actually, many experts considered Federer the GOAT while he was at his peak level FAR before he was even close to Pete’s record
Greatest "tennis" player ever sure I can agree with that greatest athlete ever?? You completely lost your senses with that. How do you even start to make such a claim there are so many factors to take into account. Not to mention there are sports that are team based sports and sports that are solo based. So you just disregard the greats achievement in team based sports all together because it's not a single person sport? Ridiculous statement lol
Djokovic has more Grand Slams, more Masters, more ATP Tour Finals, more year end no. 1 finishes, more weeks at no. 1, a better head-to-head, a higher peak by measuring both players best seasons and did it all in a tougher era and with more hostile Western crowds.
"Tougher era"
Karatsev, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Thiem, Medvedev, Berrettini, Paul, Fritz, Ruud
50% of his GS are like that, the weak era argument for Djokovic fans about Federer career backfired like one great example of karma
@@Isaac-RJ "50% of his GS are like that, the weak era argument for Djokovic fans about Federer career backfired like one great example of karma"
That's a knife to the heart
@@BOZ_11truly a dagger big homie but I still think noles best and fed greatest
@@Isaac-RJ Are u blind or deaf...Opponents of Federers Srichapan, Blake, Lubicic, Gonzalez, Baghdatis talk about competition...
@@BOZ_11 Well unfortunately for u both Thiem and Zverev that u mentioned have a positive h2h against Federer...Federers opponents in the 2000s were no better or Worse...Federer by every measure is a weak era champion and Federer most likely faced the same competition in 2018 and 19 and made 1 GS final and lost that one too...While ur greatest idol wasn't able to beat the opponents u mentioned Novak has beaten them time and again...Stop Worshipping Federer he ain't worth it bozo...
When I watch roger federer plays, I don't even care if he win or lose, that's how great he is/was to me
Well maybe then people who are blinded to the actual result shouldn't have a say in the goat debate.
@@colinbowerman3045 people act as if we are judging balet and not a competitive sport
@@markogjorgiev4912What is it with haters and ballet?
@@Edu2503 why do you call realists haters?
@@sawgames8623 "realists" would be the ones knowing the difference between tennis and ballet.
I always preferred Federer to Djokovic, but the Djoker’s insane run post-2020 caused him to surpass basically all of Fed’s accomplishments. I think tennis has 3 GOATs, but if you made me pick one, it’s Djokovic.
We are not kids - we play tennis for victories and numbers of Grand Slam tittles .
Novak - 24 .
Nadal -22.
Federer -20 .
Novak Djokovic is GOAT .
Tennis is the only sport where number 2 and 3 goats are liked more than number 1 goat😂😂😂
@@crasherbasher8067 and thats exactly why Djokovic is only the best ever
For me he is even best athlete ever.
But Federer is greatest.
@@matebreskovic5880
Yh he’s not even a better athlete than nadal
More flexible okay, but can’t cover the court like rafa
@@crasherbasher8067 but best player ever statistically.
@@matebreskovic5880 for sure
I very much agree with a lot of the other comments about prejudice against national origin. I think many people who quickly dismiss the idea that Djokovic’s Serbian nationality has a lot to do with negative perceptions of him, are often not aware of many of the facts. Depending on how old you are and where you grew up, many people may not remember or been aware of how bad the image and reputation of Serbia was on the world stage in the 90’s. Upon the breakup of Yugoslavia, many Serbian people lied about their origin and claimed to be Croatian to avoid being discriminated against. And in fact, until only three months ago (July 2024) Serbians STILL had restrictions on their movement within the EU.
Yes. Fed cultists are overwhelmingly vaxxed and terrible people.
Fed cultists are evil people, of course they deny reality.
Most people (especially in the West) couldn't point Serbia out on a map if you paid them-
But they can easily point out an arrogant conspiracy theorist and his always toxic fan base who's #1 response is either "CRY HARDER!!! 😂😂😂" or something else equally childish and rude. 🤷
Him being Serbian has NOTHING TO DO WITH him not being universally loved despite his wins.
@@IGuess...Probably mostly correct. Most American and Asians and South Americans could not even point out Serbia on the map let alone know its history or politics.
lol. It’s not nationality, it’s him. Get a clue. I was open to him in his early career but then really saw he was not someone I like to follow, lack of GENUINE character, and not someone I want my kids to follow. Make all the excuses you want, never will be a goat to a lot of us due to how he acts and behaves. He can win as much as he wants at the end of the day he will be forgot as someone will pass him, but Federer will be remembered always when you talk about tennis around the world.
Until novak broke all federers records he wasnt the goat and rightfully so because of said records, now that he broke most of them new terms are being made to invalidate him and push roger above him, he won more, has winning record against both roger and nadal, while federer has won less and has losing records against both, i agree as a serb that rogers game looks WAY prettier and that hes more popular but novak is the goat and there isnt any argument against it when it comes down to actual sport
Serbs are way too invested in whether Djokovic is regarded as a goat or not. Has zero relevance on your life
It's not just his beautiful technique, on his worst day he hit twice as many winners as Novak (quantitative, not qualitative). He also hit a lot more errors, but that's the trade-off; you can't be a skilful attacker and keep a single digit error rate when you're going for higher risk shots. The only person today who can keep going for higher risk shots and win matches against top 20 guys, is Carlos
also for u. Numbers are one point, but u cant compare the numbers of Borg with Djokovic without put them in relation to the time. when it is so easy then we need no discussion. There are good reason to put Borg above Djokovic. the sport is there to break records. u are not the best when u hold a record. this would be very unfair for older players. but u can have ur djokovic on the top if your liv is better so...
@@BOZ_11 8-7 40-15
Margaret Court had 24 slams, 1 more than Serena. Jack Nicklaus had 18 majors, 3 more than Tiger. Jabbar had most MVP’s and more points than Jordan. Court, Nicklaus, Novak, Jabbar? …. OR Serena, Tiger, Roger, Jordan.😀😀😀😀
We are certainly witnessing the final period of the greatest era ever in men's tennis. With Andy and Rafa retiring in 2024 it leaves just Novak remaining. I've been watching tennis closely since 1970 and its been a thorough privilege to watch the many champions come and go for over 50 years.
The sport has evolved and players have got better with each generation. Most sports fans, particularly at a certain age become emotionally attached to a team or in the case of tennis, a player and he or she will be their favourite. I remember this being the case for me with Rod Laver. In the era of wooden racquets he was hitting backhand topspin lobs! He completed the calendar GS both as an amateur and then again as a pro.
Its mpossible to compare players 40 years apart but since Rod the best player I've witnessed is Novak Djokovic. This is no putdown upon Roger. They both and with Rafa have provided so many with so many hours of wonderful entertainment and each have been above excellent.
Given that they share the same era, or at least have a significant overlap it is fare to compare them.
Novak rates higher because he has consistent accuracy on all his shots on defence, neutral and offence. This allows him more shot patterns and strategies. With his incredible athletic prowess and tactical intellect he has the arsenal to win in almost any circumstance. His winning statistics are a result of his game.
Roger has been the most popular player ever. Novak's rise has been very difficult for Roger's fans but they need not feel that Novak's career in any way diminishes Roger's wonderful talent, his record and reputation as a player. We've all been blessed to witness this wonderful era.
That's a charitable and fair assessment of the "real" Big 4 (Fed, Rafa, Nole, and Rod). I would say that Novak is the most complete (and best) player of the last forty-fifty years, and even if he isn't the most talented or best on a single surface, he made it his business to win - to design strategies that would break down the games, styles, and tendencies of his chief rivals. I think Djokovic deserves a lot of credit for the career that he's made for himself; he's not the most naturally gifted or well-liked tennis player, but he's persevered in the face of this (and other) adversity. However, I would not call him the "GOAT". If I'm thinking the absolute greatest ever, then I need to look no further than Nadal...ON CLAY! If tennis were only played on the red dirt, then Rafael would be the greatest, hands down. Would he have fifty majors and 200 career titles, probably not; the other two would have had to play catch-up some how, and their own games would have been better adjusted to that surface. But it's the dominance over anyone else and the raw statistical data that towers over any other player that I notice with Nadal on clay - that's (to me) a G.O.A.T. Furthermore, Rod Laver is probably the all-time greatest as far as I'm concerned. Most people would be quick to point out his "mere" eleven majors, but there are other big titles that he bagged when he wasn't permitted to play the slam events, plus a number of slam doubles trophies (and he is still the record holder in men' singles titles). His adaptability was superb (yes, three of the four majors were on grass, but Rod won titles on all surfaces, including wood!), he had a substantial head-to-head record over his chief rivals, he helped Australia win five Davis Cups, and was significantly shorter than basically every other standout player of the era. Rod Laver took tennis achievement to new heights with his ability, humility, and manner both on and off the court, and many of his records still stand to this day.
Nadal had to experience both Federer and Djokovic prime during his prime and still is 21-11 up against them in Grand Slams and has won 22 grand slams and missed 18
His numbers are skewed more on clay. I do see your claim but Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever.
He plays them on clay, and ducks Novak on HC
Why can't we just appreciate the fact that tennis give us the best players to witnessed in our lifetime? Let's just all enjoy the sports has to offer while we live.. any GOAT players discussion at present and in any time in any sport is irrelevant.. they are all great 💪
Human condition, taking what they have for granted. Yep incredible Djokovic/ Federer/ Nadal & Murray (he played just as well in his peak, just couldn't cross the finish line on top at the biggest stages as much) all played in roughly the same era. 2008-2012 especially, incredible time to be a tennis fan
I know people say that titles don’t matter, but ultimately if you play great and look appealing but end up not winning that matters. Novak had to come from a country with a lack of resources and if you look at how far each have come, Federer had his parents invest tons of money into jump starting his career while Novak had to prove himself and rise from way below than Federer. Federer might have gotten me into tennis but Novak is the one that keeps me motivated to win instead of look all fancy and smooth which doesn’t get you wins. This is the Goat of tennis, not the goat of fashion and appeal people just add all of these different criteria to the goat checklist to benefit Federer. Can anybody explain to me why being better looking or getting more money and sponsorships make you more of a great tennis player? Don’t think you can.
If Roger had maintained the records there would be no argument. The fact that Novak claimed clear statistical supremacy, and only then people started moving the goalposts to keep Roger on top, to me reeks of a popularity contest divorced from sport. Also classism honestly, which I think is clearly present. Novak is the goat, end of, it's not a discussion
"Classism" - Novak the representative and hero of the 3rd worlders, he is winning titles for you guys
@@Stu49583Very proud to be from"3rd world"country and have the goat in tenis and Best basketball player right now😍
100% agreed.
@@Stu49583 I always see that "Novak fans are the most toxic" but I only ever see fedal fans making racist and insulting comments like this
@@LazarCajkovic Against eurocentrism and classism djokovic is indeed an icon, some people talk about his popularity as if we live in a vaccum. The thing is with his Serbian nationality and position in the PTPA the west has never treated him without animosity
results are what matters , play gracefully or not , an untamable beast in his 20s to a strategic old superstar , hes been all that and won no matter what
I get the feeling if you ask tennis die hards they say Novak if you ask more casual tennis followers they say roger
Facts matter over feelings!
As a Federer Fan, I have no issue with Roger being the 3rd Greatest Player of all Time behind Novak & Nadal.
People need to get over themselves.
He's still on Mount Rushmore
Agree and like the "Mt. Rushmore" enshrinement; disagree on Fed's placement behind Nadal.
Bro Djokovic won 4 Wimbledon titles in a row!!!!!!!!
And he beat The "King of Grass" 3 times in Wimbledon Finals. 2014 - 2015 - 2019. That's insane when you think about it
@@mansrow1712 I still cant figure whos best on grass - Rog leads 8 7 in wimby but nole got him thrice in championship match.
And he is 6 consecutive finals and counting
Yes it'a a personal conviction thing. For me, the GOAT would be the athlete that best represents tennis, an iconic figure that transcends generations before, current and after, and inspires people to be like him/her.
Good description of Novak 👍
@@326gunduof federer man,federer is the goat
Noles the best ever
There's another major consideration. What player is the best or most dominant on his very best day. Clay excluded cause that's Rafa. Or maybe it could actually boil down to who's the greatest on his best day ( but what surface we talking? Roger has the most tactical weapons for grass and hard but Novak could rise and conteract those weapons as he did in 2019 Wimbledon. Roger was literally an inch away from the championship with the T serve that was a tiny bit out. Probably give him bad dreams to this day.
BEST analysis of the GOAT debate ever! Thank you for your unbiased, thorough, considerate dissection of this polarizing issue 👏👏👏👍👍👍
Fed made me watch tennis....saw he randomly at the us open one day and literally finished the tournament watching his matches. He just played different and went for winners not pushing the Ball hoping for mistakes
Djokovic is the djokovicest player, and Federer is the federest. No one can beat that.
Novak won 14 slams after 2018. That’s pretty significant
No?, from 2019-2024 he won 10
From 2018-2024 he won 12
@@lastone8040 ok 12, still on 12 when Roger and Rafa were prime. Says it all
Their prime was between 2002 and 2008....@@jimclawley9117
Would like someone thoughts and opinion on the elo rating. In 2015, djokovic has the highest elo rating ever. But at Us open and wimbledon final he played against roger and won. So if he lost those 2 matches against roger, would his elo rating be the highest ever? But because he win it proves he's the best, but its a weird standard of measurement at the same time because we are using the criteria of him beating a 2015 roger to prove that he is better than 2006 roger. It's funny that whenever novak achieves something, it has roger's name baked into it. Would just be alot easier if we saw them play peak for peak at the same age.
Djokovic is clearly the GOAT, but I enjoy watching Federer more. Felt the same about Sampras and Agassiz - Sampras was clearly better but I like Agassiz' game better.
Nadal has been totally snubbed. On the week of his retirement announcement!!
Djokovic is the best because the numbers will be there for years , cultural impact get s lost after time , and many other things example , i found out about Rod Laver because of his GS calendar record , nothing more
Have you seen Dustin Brown playing?..why isn’t he the Goat?
Don't forget Federer won 10 Grand Slams without having a coach
Roger took the 90's style of tennis and perfected it. Novak created a new and more successful style. People love Roger because they find old school, fast-paced, shotmaking tennis more entertaining than the current baseline slugfests that make up most tournaments now
Novak plays very much like Agassi, but he retains focus longer and is more athletic than Andre
If Roger came 5 years after Nadal and Novak, he wouldn't be nearly as popular. He benefitted greatly coming at the end of another great era with Sampras and Agassi. Similar to how Alcaraz and Sinner are collecting all the Federer and Nadal fans now.
@@badmanskill1112 To be frank, Novak was never going to be a force at Wimbledon if he played in the 90s (he can't serve/volley well enough)
@@BOZ_11
The presumption that Novak would have played the way he does now and not adapt to the requirements of the 90s is juvenile. Moreover, the arguments with "what if" scenarios are themselves juvenile to begin with.
@@326gundu Everybody does everything possible to fulfil all of their serving potential, irrespective of era. Volleys are about hand/eye coordination, reflexes, reaction times and racquet-head control. You either have it or you don't. Kygrios had better volleys by age 19 than Novak in his prime, so did Monfils.
As a Federer fan I'm happy to concede that Novak is the most complete player of all time, winning 24 Grand Slams.
I just don't think he had as much natural talent and didn't play as beautifully as Federer.
I also think that Nadal's 14 French Open titles are as impressive as the total tally of 24.
Thank you for your fantastic high level content!! Your tennis channel is by far my favourite!!!
Novak has the numbers 24 slams. Andy Roddick said anything other than statistics just feelings. Novak had Roger number that's the truth he dominated Roger from 2011 until his retirement. Roger is 1-4 against Novak in slam finals. Novak also has edge in their head to head.
The biggest thing for me and a lot of other tennis fans is that Djokovic is the greatest at winning and achieving but roger is the best tennis player ever. When you watch Djokovic games particularly big finals, which give him the best numbers, he often doesn't have to play better than the opponent to win. He just hangs in there for long enough and wins the tiebreaks to get himself over the line hence he is the best at winning, yet roger was still more skilful and a better tennis player in many peoples eyes. The most obvious example from what I was saying before is the Federer vs Djokovic 2019 final at Wimbledon where Federer played better in almost every metric, won 4 more games and had 2 match points but then lost 3 tiebreaks to lose the championship. Same thing with a lot of other games (some wawrinka ones come to mind), if you win championships where you don't really seem to play better and just win tiebreaks its a lot harder for people to believe you are the best player.
I've always been partial to Novak, so I easily see him as the GOAT. I think he's had as much impact on the sport as Federer. Novak's been a vocal leader and has often been notorious topic on and off the court, this brings more attention to tennis. I love Fed and even Rafa but there really is no debate. People can have there sentimental favorites but its blasphemy to say anyone is the GOAT other than Novak!
Novak is the GOAT. Federer has better marketing.
ofc the westerns don't like a guy thats not from the western world
Wrong… Federer is the GOAT as the term « GOAT » doesn’t rely on statistics but on the appreciation of talent, skills, personality and positive influence. Djoko has the best statistics in tennis, but he is certainly not the GOAT according to worldwide tennis fans.
Poor Novak got called hungry literally and figuratively 😂
And Hungry he WAS... and INSATIABLE he IS ! 😂😂😂... That is a GOAT
This is literally an MJ vs Lebron debate but Lebron has more championships than MJ in this case.
NOvak is the greatest athlete ever of all time conditioning, flexiblity,mental strength,endurance,smarts,resillence on and on,, tennis is the only TRUE SPORT u play for 3-5 hours, different surfaces, different time zones, elements of weather,..Basketball they play for 20min, controlled enviroment,same time zone, same surface, half times rest after playing for10min!! boxing is punching someone in the head!! american football the ball is in motion for 7 min for 3 hour game of constant time outs,quater/half time..american Football looks like a infomercial
It’s not always about the numbers. In women’s tennis for example, Margaret Court may have 24 GS, and Serena Williams may have 23, and Steffi Graf may have 22, but Graf is the GOAT in my books. No other player in the history of the sport has a Golden Calendar Slam except Steffi Graf. It’s almost impossible to do and she did it in 1988, all 4 slams that year and the Olympic gold medal for singles.
🏆🏆🏆🏆🥇🐐That’s superhuman.
Graf definitely stands a chance in the debate. but being the GOAT also meant if her level can beat anyone from any generation, and with technological improvements and weak era as the population size of woman tennis players might be 100x smaller in the past. i think for women tennis, the GOAT is split. but in man's Tennis, it is already set in stone. Having a Big 3 rather than a Giant 1 makes the sport much more enjoyable for us fans.
Nole is the GOAT and he completed Tennis.
As of 2024, for me the GOAT has to be Novak, in professional sport, it's all about winning when it comes to this debate. And the fact that Novak holds every single important record in tennis makes it a no-brainer. Huge respect to Roger and the fact that he has this aura attatched to him is something great, but I see it as it is. Also, to me the second-greatest has to be Rafa since he won more slams (Including each them twice), M1000 and wins the H2H by a significant margin.
Either way, the important thing here is that I feel very lucky to have been able to watch the Big Three.
So, comparing peaks is comparing ELO for just one year?
Was that the only yardstick used or you just didn’t pay attention enough?
Roger was considered the GOAT as soon as he reached 15 Slams and surpassed Sampras. For a decade, everyone called him GOAT. Novak Djokovic is now the undisputed greatest of all. 🇷🇸🐐👑👑👑
no...he was considered the goat way earlier...and that is the big difference to djokovic. he needs the records to be in the discussion...
Not really. I clearly remember how they started comparing Federer's tally to Navratilova's and Court's as soon as a couple of minutes after he won the Championship point to Roddick at the 09 Wimbledon. They even had a graph for it. So no, he wasn't considered the GOAT right there. He was considered by some as that a little bit before and still after. Same as Djokovic being considered as GOAT by others when he still had 12GS
@@shiftt. it’s not undisputed if we are disputing it
@@Edu2503Never take comparisons between atp and wta seriously.
@@AlanRR121 I never did, I'm just telling you that the absurd comparison didn't start with Nole.
How disrespectful to say Rafa is not in this debate
BAFFLES ME HOW BIASED PEOPLE CAN BE
He's not. 2/14/2/4 is great. But never winning the YEC matters. Rarely being healthy after the U.S open does too.
@@RunandLift2 Nadal is only clay king.
Nadal was never ranked Number One nearly as long as the other two, either.
@@hiwayman981 Nadal is inflation player and cant be either the best or greatest.
@@matebreskovic5880 he has won every slam multiple times against the best on that surface
What are you talking about!!!????
My problem with this analysis is that before Novak started coming close to Roger’s records that Federer fans said “as long as roger has the most slams and most weeks at rank 1 he is the goat because he holds all important records” now novak has broken them and they bring in all these intangibles. I adore both but it seems fed fans change the rules mid game
To make such a video, nearly completely ignoring Nadal is impressive. I really like Roger but if we reduced to two players debating over the goat. It should be Rafa and Novak. But that's just my opinion.
No it isn't. The only record Nadal has over Federer is grandslam titles.
The GTA clip was nice; overall great vid.
The GS tally as being the defining metric for GOAT status was invented by the Americans to put Sampras ahead of all the tennis greats. Borg was considered the GOAT by all, but it was Laver who held the GS record! Moreover, the reason that Federer is considered "GOAT" by the majority of tennis fans is the same reason that Brazil is everybody's second team to support whenever the World Cup is on: people adore positive, HIGHLY technical, attacking, flowing play. If Novak were a football team, he'd be Germany (highly successful, but nobody's second team). Respect is due overall
EDIT: Germany are _not_ the most technically sound, but their physical gifts, organisation, tactics and discipline ensure they're a threat, much like Djoko
Germany does not have the most amount of World Cups, it’s Brazil. Half of Lavers slams were before the Open era. Nice try Fedfan.
@@AlanRR121 beside the point. Just imagine it's Germany, it would change nothing as far as supporters are concerned. Nothing
Rafa disrespect is crazzzzzzy, 22 slams, 36 masters, 21 - 11 against big 3 in slams, 18 years straight in top ten, put some more respect on the man’s name. Globally millions more consider him or roger the greatest over Djokovic, not saying that’s right and no disrespect to Nole, but what you said about people saying it’s rog or Novak just isn’t accurate.
If you watch his other videos he's a Novak Stan sooooo..... none of this should surprise you.
MJ walked on air and like his nicknames, “the black cat” or “black Jesus” mystified crowds with his art form. Federer personified this artistry. Djokovic similarly to LeBron, has longevity and physically on his side. Djokovic’s ability to out hustle his youthful opponents, cover the court, and lack of perceivable weakness, have allowed him to remain dominant well into normal retirement age.
Give them both their props!
But Lebron is not Djokovic, he has yet to surpass Jordan in rings, MVPs, FMVs, defensive player of the year... In tennis it is unique. Djokovic has surpassed Federer in almost all relevant records. But he is not the favorite.
@@tadikebedeyou have valid points. Tennis doesn’t really keep individual stats the way team sports do. Maybe mine was a poor analogy. In my opinion, LeBron has passed career individual stats in a similar way to a tennis players career achievements, and MJ’s artistry, gracefulness, and worldwide popularity are more like Federer.
My main point was artistically/culturally Federer has stood uniquely positioned, and longevity/ physically Djokovic has stood uniquely positioned.
@@tadikebede I doubt Jordans legacy would be changed if Lebron had those records...
when we emphasize gifted and talented we discount the hardship they put to get the skill.
In my opinion nadal will always be the goat, he never had a easy time he started when federer was in his prime winning most of his gs and then novak during the end of his career, he was sandwhiched between the two other goats in the primes and still won 22, federer winning most of his gs before nadal was in his prime and djokovic winning most of his after his prime, if u could magically put them in a time machine and start the careers at the exact same time i guarantee nadal would have the most
that’s fair but I think that nadal is not as well rounded as djokovic regarding the 3 surfaces. Of course nadal is by far the best clay court player ever but he was mainly outclassed by novak in the other surfaces in h2h and results. Like the last time nadal won a set on a hard court against nole was in 2013.
but Federer was better on both hard courts and grass, than Nadal. It shows in the H2H once you break it down by surface, and of course, it shows massively in their major titles breakdown
😂😂😂😂😂
He just was the first out of the 3
to reach his ceiling but long term both novak and Federer surpassed his ceiling, the fact he was so good early doesn’t mean he exponentially got better each year, its quite the opposite. Its been more than 11 years he couldn’t beat novak outside clay lol, and Federer later in his career got the best of him compared to their earlier encounters
@mitchwhitfield1552
Facts don't care about your opinion. 😉That's why we have results, ranking, points so that it can easily be understood who is the GOAT and we don't need ant opinions. Including yours.
I AM a fed fan! Only one goat Mr Djokovic
Roger is the GOAT
Noles the best though
I'll just paraphrase Novak and say that the beauty of this sport and this GOAT conversation is that there's no definitive answer, there are plenty of valid arguments in favor of many players and the conversation never ends, and that's good for Tennis.
No.
@@JairoRodríguez-m5d I didn't ask you anything.
Remember also Federer had Mono which definitely affected him.
I really like this video you make opinions and thoughts whilst always deeply considering the opposing argument and respecting everyones thoughts.
Covid stopped Novak getting to 28 or so. he's the goat.
@glemonsbhatkin514 Don't even go there. Djokovic made his bed he had to lay in it. Even when he got Covid he still wouldn't acknowledge it was happening. Tell that to all the families that lost loved ones. Shameful.
...and he used the situation when many players dropped important tournaments due to health concers to win with easy draws..! Maybe he got negatives out of the whole situation but also just as many if not more positives..!
goal post shifted only when federer lost most of his records (specially GS). even older say it is Borg or someone else. Most of tennis records are Novak's, other BS that comes along (popularity, impact on sport, finese, marketability) is on Fedex side of course. But as McEroe said: Tennis is not popularity contest.
If you are not BoAT then you are not GoAT , that is basic sense!
fr!! 👍🤙
@@durgaprasadsamantula699 actually nole is BOAT athlete for me but he isnt GOAT fed is
@@msem6136 comment above
just answer this question, who is the player that made you love tennis? Djokovic or Federer and Nadal? then u will have the answer of who is the boat and the goat
nadal and federer cancelled each other out so many times, had they not existed in the same era, each of them might have had more than 30 grand slams.
My grandmother says that Sampras is the GOAT. Because emotions matter. Not Statistics.
Thanks for this interesting logical comparison.As you said numbers do not tell all the story for many people. The shots veriety and quality of Roger is un matched.Poetry in motion vs a very effective winning machine, Novak.
Both Alcaraz and Sinner defined Roger as their idol. It says it all..
You've always been a hater, but as you stated there "the goal posts have changed now" funnily enough they tried to change them after Novak took every record, then it became about who had the best 1 handed backhanded and how many uncles named toni someone had 😂😂 all I can say is, enjoy the distant 2nd and 3rd 😊
Big Titles counter says:
1. Djokovic 72
2. Nadal 59
3. Federer 54
4. Lendl 33
5. McEnroe/Sampras 32
6. Connors 31
7. Agassi 27
8. Laver/Borg 25
9. Becker 23
10. Murray 20
So pick your GOAT carefully
BOAT list...
It's simple. If someone says Novak is not the GOAT, it's a mental health issue. So, no hope for that kind of sickness.
In 2009, Federer didn't even have half of Novak's records, so you called him a goat. If Federer had all of Novak's records today, you would call him a goat.
I don’t matter who has more grand slams because there is two hard court grand slams just imagine if there was two clay court grand slams then Rafa would have so much grandslams
goat meant for the past, the present and the future. that is novak djokovic. i would say best carlos and best sinner couldnt not pass best novak, and carlos and sinner might be better than nadal and roger. though i will also say the big 3 made carlos and sinner, teaching them lessons nobody will ever bring to the court. but most importantly, there is no one provided more solutions to beat anyone other than novak, where players copied the solutions.
in the past, tennis meant class and prestige, in that time everyone wants to become a white person. roger fits that image perfectly. but as a global international sport to stand beside football and basketball, Novak represented the prime role model as the greatest athlete. no doubt as a marketing model, roger fits perfectly. but Novak represent the Sport where some can argue that if Novak were to be in another sport, that sport might found themselves another GOAT.
Djokovic did it in big 4 era fed was the goat he is still perfect but until djokovic did what he did. Stats are the facts 100 years from now people will show stats not feelings so based on stats they will say novak was the best if nobody wins more than him.
I don't like the "moving the goal posts" argument on the GOAT debate now that Novak has officially silenced the chatter involving the numbers. Novak is the greatest and I'm 100% a fan of Federer. Everyone has their favorite and a player they idolize. If one is resorting to numbers to make an argument, then there is no argument; it's Novak. I have so much respect for Novak for what he's accomplished on and off the court and his willingness to stand firm on his beliefs even when they were unpopular and could cost him his career. I firmly believe neither Roger or Rafa would hold an unpopular opinion publicly.
thats right. so personely i like djokovic for that. but his behaviour on the court with his toilette pause in crucial moments are very bad. and we are talking about sport and no politics
Facts matter over feelings!!!
@@Solis225 so?
@@Brauzeuge1516 What are you talking about? Seeing how it doesn’t make sense. So? Right back at you. It’s not about your feelings 😭
@@Solis225 lol i tried to refer to the point, that whodefan talks about the nice things off the court. And yes it there is a point of sportmanship which also is a component for the debate. And your facts count nothing when they are not seen relatively to the time....and that is the debate. But i can imagine is diffucult to understand for u.
In an individual sport, all that matters are the victories, the titles, the records. That's why these players are training hard. That's why even legends like Big 3 were crying after a final, even if they already achieved so much in their careers. Everybody wants to be the best & everyone wants to win titles. The GOAT status in tennis is pretty obvious. In 2020 , Federer was the GOAT, in 2022 was Nadal. Since last year, is Djoker. And by far. There's no debate about that. Ofcourse, it can be debatable wich one is more popular, talented,aesthetic etc...but that's a subjective opinion. 🤷
the world is so simple...man man so superficial!
Fed's popularity was just over marketing to all the armchair tennis players by BIG CORP to sell running shoes and watches. Fed had a weak backhand, weak mentally, weak tennis smarts and never evolved his sqaush game. 50% of fed titles were on the B circuit 250/500 level..Fed only won 33% of his GS matches against nadal/djoki which includes only winning 33% of his GS finals agaisnt nadal/djoki.Fed wasn't a bright person who never had anything to say and showed in his game..Djoki always has something smart to say and showed in his tennis smarts..Fed lossed 4 times at wimbledon finals agaisn nadal/djoki..NAdal nevr lossed french finals and djoki never lossed Aussie open final
Starting position as a criteria? Novak comes from a country with no tennis tradition, no tennis system to support the development of the players, with a weak economy. Also, when he was developing the country was in war and suffered international sanctions. He had many more obstacles to even become a professional tennis player.
That’s like the difference between Michael Jordan vs Lebron James
It's all about perspective, If Novak was from USA or western European country he would win Popularity contest too.
ofc these western guys are one of the most disgusting haters of all time
It has nothing to do with wherever you're from. People just don't care for Novak (mostly by his own doing) Roger is Swiss- Rafa is Spanish they are both beloved. That argument doesn't hold up.
@@darlenecherbak4042did you know that Switzerland and Spain are both in Western Europe?
@banjo7458 I said it doesn't matter WHERE you're from. Did you know Switzerland is in the Northern Hemisphere. Aside from the geography lesson - this is about the fact that Novak's personality is the problem not where he did or didn't grow up. That's why he isn't as popular. That's it. His fans need to stop thinking up every ridiculous excuse under the sun as to why he's not liked.
@darlenecherbak4042 his personality is lovely! In fact, everybody loved him and thought he was adorable doing his impersonations... until he started to win against their beloved Fed and Nadal! 😂
It is bizarre that you upload a video like this 2 days after Nadal announces retirement.
just disrespectful
‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
He's a Djokovic stan
Common sense would tell you that he already made the video before Rafa announced his retirement.
@@emmanuelokosun7624 common sense would tell you that most people don'tt have common sense.
Just choose any of the 3 can’t really go wrong. They all great. Just leave it at that. 😂
Fed: better serve, forehand, net game, more skill, and won 20 slams with a one handed backhand. Fed made you look bad, Novak wore you out.
Don't forget the 90" racket for most of his career too
At least your mom agrees with you (I'll ask her tonight).
Unfortunately this topic still seems to be a thing, in all sports, we value championship titles, and strictly the big ones, for better or worse. Djokovic has the most slams, he goes down as the best. Obviously, we all can choose whomever we wish. Djokovic isn’t my favorite, but he gets the title because of his grand slams. I feel them 3 made each other better, and Djokovic had the best 2 players to try and figure out. I do feel at their best, Nadal, could beat Federer, Federer could beat Djokovic, and Djokovic could beat Nadal.
Federer at his best could never beat Novak at his best...Novak has always been the best peak player followed by Nadal...Federer had the most beautiful game but that doesn't make him the GOAT and honestly imo never was always thought Nadal was better than him and for u to be the best player in ur own generation u need to have a positive H2h against ur greatest rivals which unfortunately Fed never had...
The year is 2030, Djokovic now has 28 grand slams and this kid is still glazing mr Chokerer
Novak had special gift he was able to make players lose their powers in important moments mentally
That is something that Roger and Rafa had too but when we compere only Big 3 we can safely say Novak made Rafa and Roger feel worried playing him in tie breaks and fifth sets
Novak is the Goat in the aspect of mental stability
Roger was the Goat in the aspect of Technical perfection
Rafa was the Goat in the aspect of never giving up and always giving 100% until he wins
Harsh truth: it's generational. Sampras would never be forgotten. He was. No one even talks about him anymore. They are entertainment products. And they get the best of it, too. Imagine what the poor losers go through. Novak will remain because of the numbers. And when people forget the matches, (Yeah, cause no one remembers them after a while) stats is what counts. There, I hope I helped you and the "goat" debate. If Nole wins one more two more slams, goat until someone breaks it.
I think that the first question you must ask yourself is: what is professional sport? Well, it's entertainment. So, viewing enjoyment, audience experience, track record and aura should all be taken into account.
My brain says novak but my heart says fed
Djokovic is the Goat. End of discussion.
Federer 🐐
They aren’t exactly of the same generation, it’s like comparing McEnroe and Sampras, they are too different
(I think Nadal could be added into the debate)
Thank you for making yet another list that Novak wins. He just can’t stop winning.
You are right, you can't change someone else's views. I believe in performance. If that is the case, Djokovic is the GOAT.
In Oscar, the award for best actor goes to the one who acts best and not how handsome or how popular he is.
Federer still. He’s an artist! Very graceful!
I still don't agree on peak and rivalry. During 2004-2007 Roger completely dominated tennis facing players like Roddick,Hewitt,Safin (all former number ones that would have won multiple grand slams if it wasn't for him), Nadal etc. And you're considering just one season to define a period (in 2006 Fed won more titles and had a better winning % btw). Then, if you're talking about rivalry they're extremely close even with age gap. Novak defeated prime Roger (during 2006-2007) only once in their 6 meetings (16,6% win), while Fed defeated Djoker 10 times in their 28 meetings during 2011-2015 (35,7%). Even the numbers you showed demonstrate how Djokovic suffers more the presence of prime Roger given that he had to wait for the swiss to turn 30 before really starting to win. That's it.
Yeah, I agree. Roddick, Hewitt and Safin would make mincemeat of Berretini, Tsitsipas, Kygrios, Tiafoe, Ruud, Rune, etc. Peak Roger beats everyone on hard and grass; beats everyone on clay too, except for Rafa and Djoko
@@Lorix306 yeah I wish I could go back into the history and have all three enter the pros at the same time and age. It’s so hard to compare when one is rising and the other is clearly declining, albeit with moments of greatness. Prime Roger is probably the most dominant force of all time in tennis, but the numbers in the video with elo is a very strong argument, too.
Exactly what I'm talking about,thanks.
Roddick, Hewitt, and Safin were all #1's at age 20 because it was the weak era and Roger became the king of the weak era. Once Rafa and Novak peaked, Federer wilted. That's why he's #3 all time in grand slams. He was lucky he collected all those early Slams against players like Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Philippoussis, Soderling, etc.
@@badmanskill1112 Roddick, Safin and Hewitt all have winning records against Sampras, and he retired relatively young, at 32 (both McEnroe and Connors played longer). Hewitt's h2h with Agassi is even (and Agassi was making major finals until the year he retired).
Baghdatis and Philippoussis were not Roger's rivals, since he played Bagh ONCE in his entire life, and Philippoussis only once in his life across all 4 majors.
As for Soderling, Roger had been a pro longer than a decade by 2009, so what are you talking about? That man beat Rafa, at the French, before being drawn against Federer
I was desperate for Roger Federer to be the GOAT, but Novak has surpassed him. Even though i prefer Federer and Nadal, you cant deny Djokovic's record and accomplishments. The number of majors is the most important determining factor for being the GOAT. Fortunately for Djokovic he has other important records in addition to 24 slams. I have made peace with this because it's the fact.
If its not about the numbers, ill go for dustine brown
Djok is the goat, but this ELO rating stuff is hilarious since he played Federer 9 years after Fed's peak. Fed loses points because he's in the finals of matches? Kinda nuts. The eye ball test tells me 2006/2007 Fed is peak and no one can change my mind. He moved so fast and that changed everything compared to his later years.
If its not about numbers, ill go for dustin brown
Considering influence and impact, it's more nuanced than just estimating one's popularity with the fans.
In regards to tennis, Federer undoubtedly influenced players born after 1990, with many saying he was their idol, and they looked up to him and his style of play. A considerable amount of players say the same for Djokovic, mostly those who were kids or teens in the early 2010s during Djokovic's prime.
Federer (and Nadal, and their rivalry) due to global brand sponsors, had a global promotion and was the most effectively marketed tennis star ever, and most likely brought in most sports fans into following tennis. Djokovic has a global impact transcending tennis as well, especially after setting records and being proclaimed GOAT, mostly in the eastern part of the world.
When it comes to influence, very significant is their relation towards the sport itself and their actions concerning fellow players. Federer (and Nadal) was in favor of the status quo and the ATPs and big corporations' marriage. Djokovic was on the other in favor of a systematic change in allocating finances in favor of players ranked outside the top 100. Djokovic might be much more positively reflected upon in a couple of decades, with his actions of creating a tennis union dedicated to allowing players outside of the top 100 to live from the sport, which also effectively supports tennis's growth as a global sport, and allowing many more people to enter without being necessarily heavily sponsored.
Many popular sports like football and basketball have decades ago reformed their system into prioritizing players' interests, whilst tennis is the only globally popular sport that is still heavily under the influence of corporate sponsors who collect 70-90% of earnings. Djokovic being a reformatting figure might prove as an important contribution to the growth of the sport, considering how impenetrable and solid the corporate establishment is.
Such a great comment! I completely agree with this and hope in a few decades everyone can finally see Djokovics lasting legacy
@@jackbauer9225 Jack, thank you. I find it interesting in itself how just with sports matters like this we can observe the importance of media, influence, and politics when it comes to the economy, corporate and class system, and discrimination when it comes to salary/money in this era of liberal capitalism, which is not in favor of the little guy. Before Djokovic's dispute within the ATP Players Council in 2015 this matter wasn't even discussed between top players. There's still a long way to go, and the reason why it's such a difficult thing to reform the sport and why corporate tennis sponsors keep collecting lion's shares of earnings is also because ownerships of companies and media intertwine, not allowing the promotion of such debates. Nobody wants to concede that this issue exists or acknowledge the PTPA.
Video is a joke, where is Bernard Tomic? Jesus. You surely have never watched tennis.
Haha nice video really, love your take on the situation!