When considering impact and significance, Djokovic's stance towards tennis players' union and advocating a system with only the player's interest at heart deserves at least a mention. Unlike him, both Federer and Nadal were indifferent regarding tennis being a sport with 10 people being filthy rich, another 90 financially secured and the remaining few thousand struggling to stay in the sport, being dependent or indebted or even doing day jobs, which speaks volumes about their character. Especially because tennis is the only out of 4 major world-popular sports where the financial distribution of profits is around 30% towards players. At Grand Slams is even lower, they distribute about 10-15% of their earnings into prize money.
@@distico Djokovic just wants to help any way he can. He is well known for his philanthropy, giving tens of millions of euros to hospitals, treatment of sick children, schools, students, churches, and others in need in Serbia. He spoke about how after his retirement he will stay involved with tennis, run his academy, write memoirs, enjoy life with his family, travel the world, things like that, and he clearly said many times he does not want to get involved in politics as he believes he will best help through philanthropy. You can believe that he is doing everything for himself, it's your opinion. He actually is a good man who wants to give back to his nation and help the sport that gave him everything.
Stats difference between Đoković and Federer: - 4 Grand slams - 12 Masters 1000 - 1 ATP finals - 118 weeks as no1 - 3 year end no1 - Olympic gold Player with this stats would be a tennis legend. This is the best way to see how big the difference between these two really is.
@@МатијаРадуловић impressive stat s for sure - less impressive is his x 8 slams he won from 2020 to 23 " playing weak era new gen players , and 3 or 4 very easy draws in grand slams . It's not Djokovic s fault of coarse , but it's these stats that put him in front largely Prior 2020 , he was sitting on 15 slams and all those other stats you mention , were somewhat less
@@johnrenehan7406 If you wanna look at it like that, you could also say the same for Federer, since he won majority of his slams beofore Nadal and Djokovic showed up.
I'm an heretic spaniard who rooted for Federer instead of Nadal. Federer is the player I have enjoyed tennis the most with, and although I love Nadal as he has given a lot to my country, I couldn't resist myself as Federer was not only a tennis player but an artist. But let's get real. The Joker is the best player of all time and it is not even close.
What dumb statement.you have to play what you have to play.its utter nonsense.there is nothing else they could have done except play after put forward@@cpt-r.federer5940
@@vypervfx7519 A few, actually. Most consecutive weeks at #1, the only player to win two majors 5 years in a row. Most Wimbledon titles, most Wimbledon finals, and the all-time highest grass win rate.
- People when Sampras had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT. - People when Federer had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT. - People when Nadal had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT. - Haters when Djokovic had the Grand Slam record: IT'S NOT ABOUT NUMBERS. BS and hypocrisy, Novak Djokovic is not only the GOAT or the best player ever. Whatever you call it, He's probably the greatest athlete ever. The arguments against Novak are solely based on sentimentalism, not by facts. This is tennis, not a beauty contest.
@josequintero8615 You've gone off the boil like Aussies like to say. Keep convincing yourself. Emotions absolutely matter - too bad you don't understand that.
Facts are never the end all be all for one's status as the GOAT. The greatest athlete could also be a stretch, as tennis is neither the hardest nor the most athletic sport. Many other sports are much more difficult, and people who can do well in those sports are better athletes, according to pure fact as you so solemnly swear by.
Greatest "tennis" player ever sure I can agree with that greatest athlete ever?? You completely lost your senses with that. How do you even start to make such a claim there are so many factors to take into account. Not to mention there are sports that are team based sports and sports that are solo based. So you just disregard the greats achievement in team based sports all together because it's not a single person sport? Ridiculous statement lol
Look, if you walk around the F1 paddock and ask drivers who the greatest of all time is? Most drivers say senna. Not Schumacher, and certainly not Hamilton. Why? He only had 3 WDC’s. It’s not about numbers for a lot of people, it’s the person that made them the most excited about the sport. And for a lot of people, watching Djokovic isn’t very exciting.
I stand with Novak, I feel Federer was more appealing and even the narrators have a bias against Djokovic... for me I always love the gladiator willing to speak up against status quo. But whichever man is dominating their era, it is for a reason, both absolute beasts. Very interesting to see what comes next.
I always preferred Federer to Djokovic, but the Djoker’s insane run post-2020 caused him to surpass basically all of Fed’s accomplishments. I think tennis has 3 GOATs, but if you made me pick one, it’s Djokovic.
It is "insane", but for reasons like this one. From 2017-2024 ND vs Top 10 Zverev+Tsitsi+Matteo: 9-0 in slams (20-3 overall) Thiem+Sinner+Alcaraz: 3-5 in slams (10-11 overall)
@@thesoccergod Federer and Djokovic both farmed a weak era, but difference is that Fed did it in his prime and Djokovic did it in his Oldovic years. Of course the latter is harder.
@@baguettedepain3975 The usual spewing of brainless 'weak era' BS, as taught by Sobovic, the chief of the croc cult. Did you know that when 2004 began, FIVE players (including Fed) below 25 y.o had a > overall 70% win rate in Bof5s. Fed's genius _made all his peers inferior,_ unlike Djokovic, who needed a truckload of luck to barely lead 29-31 y.o Fed (2011-12) in slams. It's why you'll *never* be able to show me the kind of discrepancy in Fed's numbers from 2003-07 that I've shown you with Djoko's.
@@baguettedepain3975 Lol. Federer en route to the AO 2004 alone won as many slam matches against slam champions (Hewitt, Safin, Ferrero) as Djokovic won in all his seven slams in the 2021-23 period.
@@thesoccergod I really wonder why there were so many slam champions that Federer could beat in his time when there was almost none to be found in Oldovic time... It's almost like 3 players had completely monopolized grand slams in the 15 years prior and deprived en entire generation of players of them. Why couldn't Djokovic play in an easier era like peak Fed? Definitely not the goat. /s
Until novak broke all federers records he wasnt the goat and rightfully so because of said records, now that he broke most of them new terms are being made to invalidate him and push roger above him, he won more, has winning record against both roger and nadal, while federer has won less and has losing records against both, i agree as a serb that rogers game looks WAY prettier and that hes more popular but novak is the goat and there isnt any argument against it when it comes down to actual sport
It's not just his beautiful technique, on his worst day he hit twice as many winners as Novak (quantitative, not qualitative). He also hit a lot more errors, but that's the trade-off; you can't be a skilful attacker and keep a single digit error rate when you're going for higher risk shots. The only person today who can keep going for higher risk shots and win matches against top 20 guys, is Carlos
also for u. Numbers are one point, but u cant compare the numbers of Borg with Djokovic without put them in relation to the time. when it is so easy then we need no discussion. There are good reason to put Borg above Djokovic. the sport is there to break records. u are not the best when u hold a record. this would be very unfair for older players. but u can have ur djokovic on the top if your liv is better so...
Margaret Court had 24 slams, 1 more than Serena. Jack Nicklaus had 18 majors, 3 more than Tiger. Jabbar had most MVP’s and more points than Jordan. Court, Nicklaus, Novak, Jabbar? …. OR Serena, Tiger, Roger, Jordan.😀😀😀😀
Djokovic is extremely humble, and yet is not as popular as Federer cos of his tough, all-round (too good), underrated, defensive, warrior-style demeanor, while Federer's artistic, graceful, Mozart- style also looks good on the outside. But results don't lie!
I would add Rafa back into the debate. Rafa arguably had the most setbacks, facing both prime Roger and Novak, along with dozens of injuries in which he had to make insane comebacks literally every year. And his obvious incredible runs in Roland Garros. He has better stats than Roger, and is closer to Novak than we may think.
All statistics indicate that Federer is better than Nadal on hard surfaces and grass surfaces Hardwood and grass floors represent more than 70% of the total hardwood, grass and dirt floors That is, Federer is better than Nadal on most surfaces, with the exception of clay, which represents less than 30% of the total surfaces.
@@mosab.2815 not at all trying to be disrespectful here but the case for Federer falls apart considering the matchups between the three greatest tennis players in existence. Statistically, it's evident that Novak and Roger are the best and most consistent Hard/Grass-court players. However by looking at the H2Hs and the most important occassions where all the three faced each other, Federer has only been the favorite against Nadal on grass and indoor hard (=by far Nadals weakest environment) (WIM 2006/07/18 vs. WIM 2008; ATP finals 2010/11 vs. 2013), while continously loosing against him at AO (2009/12/14 vs. AO 2017). Djokovic, on the contrary pretty much dominated Nadal at hard court (with the exemption being the US Open) and - although closer - on grass as well. Assessing Djokovic vs. Federer is a little less clear on the first look. Overall, Djokovic won the most important matchups (e.g. WIM 2019), while Federer was the only one being able to stop a prime Djokovic occassionally on hard & grass courts. I would argue Federer is probably the one able to generate the highest quality of tennis on hard & grass courts in general, but, particularly mentally, faltered in the most important moments against the other two. Taking everything into perspektive, I would always give the advantage (besides of course on clay) to Djokovic which leads me to a ranking him FIRST, followed by Nadal at TWO - as he managed to beat Federer in all his favorite venues, while Federer never had the slightest chance on clay. That's it! (-;
I’m a Nadal fan, but I must admit Djokovic is unarguably the GOAT. He beat prime Nadal seven times on clay, including two times at RG and in four Masters 1000 finals (1 Monte-Carlo / 1 Madrid / 2 Rome). Federer only beat Nadal twice on clay (16 matches); he fell to Nadal in his two least-favorable surfaces twice (10 matches). Nadal has a positive H2H against Federer in outdoor hard courts (8-6), in spite of having lost all of their last four matchups on this surface in 2017. Having said all this, the Big 3 were extremely entertaining and gave us plently of quality tennis throghout their careers.
@@eduardosanchez3975 not fully correct - fact - at RG he beat Nadal twice only ; once in 2015 when Nadal was fresh back from injury's and maybe 60% ; the other in 2021 , in a semi - was a single best result against a fit Nadal Fact 2 - Djokovic has NEVER beaten Nadal in a RG final - not in 4 or 5 attempts He shares this stat with federal
@@johnrenehan7406 You are not right. "Eduardo Sanchez" is right. Đoković has 7 wins against Nadal on a clay, Federer only 2 wins . All the people know,that the second best player on Clay was last 20 years Đoković.
Djokovic has more Grand Slams, more Masters, more ATP Tour Finals, more year end no. 1 finishes, more weeks at no. 1, a better head-to-head, a higher peak by measuring both players best seasons and did it all in a tougher era and with more hostile Western crowds.
"Tougher era" Karatsev, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Thiem, Medvedev, Berrettini, Paul, Fritz, Ruud 50% of his GS are like that, the weak era argument for Djokovic fans about Federer career backfired like one great example of karma
@@Isaac-RJ "50% of his GS are like that, the weak era argument for Djokovic fans about Federer career backfired like one great example of karma" That's a knife to the heart
Novak had special gift he was able to make players lose their powers in important moments mentally That is something that Roger and Rafa had too but when we compere only Big 3 we can safely say Novak made Rafa and Roger feel worried playing him in tie breaks and fifth sets Novak is the Goat in the aspect of mental stability Roger was the Goat in the aspect of Technical perfection Rafa was the Goat in the aspect of never giving up and always giving 100% until he wins
Lolol. Up to and including the Wim 2015 final, Fed was 8-4 in slam tiebreaks vs Vulturovic. Djoko's "mental strength" is one of the biggest myths in tennis. It's so easily shown up by his defeats to elite peers & younger players.
@@thesoccergod 2010 Us open Fed lost 2Mps 2011 Us open Fed lost 2 Mps 2019 Wimb Fed lost 2 Mps 2020 Thiem lost final AO vs Novak from good position 2021 Stefanos lost from 2-0 vs Novak RG 2012 AO Novak came back in the fifth set from Nadal and winning the longest match in history 2019 Wimb was the longest Wimb final too 2021 Novak came back from 0-2 to Mussetti 2018 Wimbledon SF Novak beated Rafa in close fifth set 2014 Novak smashed Roger in 6-4 breaking him in the fifth set Shanghai Masters final vs Delpo Novak won and many more matches show Novak mental stability 2023 Cincinati final Old Novak came back vs Alcaraz an beated him in mental tie break and mental match 3 hours so learn and then talk
I've been a Federer fan for years, but I think saying he's still the GOAT is grasping at straws. As it stands, I'd say he's the second best of all-time and the best on grass. The beauty of his game, his unmatched marketability and off-court activities and achievements can all be properly celebrated without arguing he's the GOAT. Novak's numbers just don't lie.
Oh but the numbers *_do_* lie. Put them in context & their ludicrousness is shown up. ND in slams Wim 2007 to RG 2016: 12 slams won of 36 slams played (all 36 as a Top 5 player) ; win rate = 33% Wim 2018 to USO 2023: 12 slams won of 19 played (17 as a Top 5 player) ; win rate = 63% Meanwhile, in that same period (from Wim 2018 to USO 2023) ND vs Top 10 Zverev+Tsitsipas+Berrettini: 9-0 in slams (22-4 overall) Thiem+Sinner+Alcaraz: 3-2 in slams (5-5 overall) Djokovic is the undisputed *GOoAT (Greatest Opportunist of All Time),* not just in tennis but across sports.
@@thesoccergod As I see you posted this everywhere I'll reply here as well... Numbers don't lie, but _YOUR_ numbers do lie, run the same analysis for Federer Novak wasn't even playing in highest level in 2006, just as Federer was not playing highest level in 2001 Federer joined ATP in 1998, Djokovic in 2003, so let's start counting from 5 years after each one joined Djokovic: AO 2008 to RG 2018: 12/42 slams won (29%) ; age: 24-31 y.o [7 years] Wim 2018 to USO 2024: 12/26 slams won (46%) ; age 31-37 y.o [6 years] Federer: Wim 2003 to AO 2010: 16/27 slams won (60%) ; age: 22-29 y.o [7 years] RG 2010 to USO 2022: 04/51 slams won (08%) ; age 29-41 y.o [12 years] Let's compare the eras that we blame them for opportunism: - Federer in 2003-2010 was 22-29 yo and he grabbed 16 GS - Djokovic in 2018-2024 was 31-37 yo and he grabbed 12 GS - It's way easier for Federer to peak at his 20s with most of the best players around retiring and new gen still weak. In just 6 yrs of his career, when Nadal and Djokovic were not around, he won 80% of all his GS - Djokovic was in his 30s with big players around including Fed and Nadal and a new generation already strong
@@thesoccergod And besides that, Federer had massive contracts with big companies (e.g. Nike) Djokovic always had reduced contracts because of the hatred towards him from people like you Federer opened his own group of companies and his fortune is over $500 million While Djokovic has over $200 million But even though this huuuge difference of 2.5x, Djokovic has donated more money to charity than Federer What is your excuse for your "goat"?
You haven't completed tennis if you haven't won the biggest prize, the Grand Slam. No man has won all four slam tournaments in the same year since Rod Laver. Djokovic almost did it, but fell short. Now he's too old. Maybe Sinner or Alcaraz can do it? It'll be extremely tough.
My problem with this analysis is that before Novak started coming close to Roger’s records that Federer fans said “as long as roger has the most slams and most weeks at rank 1 he is the goat because he holds all important records” now novak has broken them and they bring in all these intangibles. I adore both but it seems fed fans change the rules mid game
If Roger had maintained the records there would be no argument. The fact that Novak claimed clear statistical supremacy, and only then people started moving the goalposts to keep Roger on top, to me reeks of a popularity contest divorced from sport. Also classism honestly, which I think is clearly present. Novak is the goat, end of, it's not a discussion
@@LazarCajkovic Against eurocentrism and classism djokovic is indeed an icon, some people talk about his popularity as if we live in a vaccum. The thing is with his Serbian nationality and position in the PTPA the west has never treated him without animosity
We are certainly witnessing the final period of the greatest era ever in men's tennis. With Andy and Rafa retiring in 2024 it leaves just Novak remaining. I've been watching tennis closely since 1970 and its been a thorough privilege to watch the many champions come and go for over 50 years. The sport has evolved and players have got better with each generation. Most sports fans, particularly at a certain age become emotionally attached to a team or in the case of tennis, a player and he or she will be their favourite. I remember this being the case for me with Rod Laver. In the era of wooden racquets he was hitting backhand topspin lobs! He completed the calendar GS both as an amateur and then again as a pro. Its mpossible to compare players 40 years apart but since Rod the best player I've witnessed is Novak Djokovic. This is no putdown upon Roger. They both and with Rafa have provided so many with so many hours of wonderful entertainment and each have been above excellent. Given that they share the same era, or at least have a significant overlap it is fare to compare them. Novak rates higher because he has consistent accuracy on all his shots on defence, neutral and offence. This allows him more shot patterns and strategies. With his incredible athletic prowess and tactical intellect he has the arsenal to win in almost any circumstance. His winning statistics are a result of his game. Roger has been the most popular player ever. Novak's rise has been very difficult for Roger's fans but they need not feel that Novak's career in any way diminishes Roger's wonderful talent, his record and reputation as a player. We've all been blessed to witness this wonderful era.
That's a charitable and fair assessment of the "real" Big 4 (Fed, Rafa, Nole, and Rod). I would say that Novak is the most complete (and best) player of the last forty-fifty years, and even if he isn't the most talented or best on a single surface, he made it his business to win - to design strategies that would break down the games, styles, and tendencies of his chief rivals. I think Djokovic deserves a lot of credit for the career that he's made for himself; he's not the most naturally gifted or well-liked tennis player, but he's persevered in the face of this (and other) adversity. However, I would not call him the "GOAT". If I'm thinking the absolute greatest ever, then I need to look no further than Nadal...ON CLAY! If tennis were only played on the red dirt, then Rafael would be the greatest, hands down. Would he have fifty majors and 200 career titles, probably not; the other two would have had to play catch-up some how, and their own games would have been better adjusted to that surface. But it's the dominance over anyone else and the raw statistical data that towers over any other player that I notice with Nadal on clay - that's (to me) a G.O.A.T. Furthermore, Rod Laver is probably the all-time greatest as far as I'm concerned. Most people would be quick to point out his "mere" eleven majors, but there are other big titles that he bagged when he wasn't permitted to play the slam events, plus a number of slam doubles trophies (and he is still the record holder in men' singles titles). His adaptability was superb (yes, three of the four majors were on grass, but Rod won titles on all surfaces, including wood!), he had a substantial head-to-head record over his chief rivals, he helped Australia win five Davis Cups, and was significantly shorter than basically every other standout player of the era. Rod Laver took tennis achievement to new heights with his ability, humility, and manner both on and off the court, and many of his records still stand to this day.
NOvak is the greatest athlete ever of all time conditioning, flexiblity,mental strength,endurance,smarts,resillence on and on,, tennis is the only TRUE SPORT u play for 3-5 hours, different surfaces, different time zones, elements of weather,..Basketball they play for 20min, controlled enviroment,same time zone, same surface, half times rest after playing for10min!! boxing is punching someone in the head!! american football the ball is in motion for 7 min for 3 hour game of constant time outs,quater/half time..american Football looks like a infomercial
Fed made me watch tennis....saw he randomly at the us open one day and literally finished the tournament watching his matches. He just played different and went for winners not pushing the Ball hoping for mistakes
Nadal had to experience both Federer and Djokovic prime during his prime and still is 21-11 up against them in Grand Slams and has won 22 grand slams and missed 18
In an individual sport, all that matters are the victories, the titles, the records. That's why these players are training hard. That's why even legends like Big 3 were crying after a final, even if they already achieved so much in their careers. Everybody wants to be the best & everyone wants to win titles. The GOAT status in tennis is pretty obvious. In 2020 , Federer was the GOAT, in 2022 was Nadal. Since last year, is Djoker. And by far. There's no debate about that. Ofcourse, it can be debatable wich one is more popular, talented,aesthetic etc...but that's a subjective opinion. 🤷
Starting position as a criteria? Novak comes from a country with no tennis tradition, no tennis system to support the development of the players, with a weak economy. Also, when he was developing the country was in war and suffered international sanctions. He had many more obstacles to even become a professional tennis player.
Novak has the numbers 24 slams. Andy Roddick said anything other than statistics just feelings. Novak had Roger number that's the truth he dominated Roger from 2011 until his retirement. Roger is 1-4 against Novak in slam finals. Novak also has edge in their head to head.
Its the same at every tennis club is the pusher that beats most players better then the guy would goes for his shots and sometimes misses but goes out swinging. Is winning the most important part is what shots you could pull of and how you won important too.
I very much agree with a lot of the other comments about prejudice against national origin. I think many people who quickly dismiss the idea that Djokovic’s Serbian nationality has a lot to do with negative perceptions of him, are often not aware of many of the facts. Depending on how old you are and where you grew up, many people may not remember or been aware of how bad the image and reputation of Serbia was on the world stage in the 90’s. Upon the breakup of Yugoslavia, many Serbian people lied about their origin and claimed to be Croatian to avoid being discriminated against. And in fact, until only three months ago (July 2024) Serbians STILL had restrictions on their movement within the EU.
Most people (especially in the West) couldn't point Serbia out on a map if you paid them- But they can easily point out an arrogant conspiracy theorist and his always toxic fan base who's #1 response is either "CRY HARDER!!! 😂😂😂" or something else equally childish and rude. 🤷 Him being Serbian has NOTHING TO DO WITH him not being universally loved despite his wins.
@@IGuess...Probably mostly correct. Most American and Asians and South Americans could not even point out Serbia on the map let alone know its history or politics.
lol. It’s not nationality, it’s him. Get a clue. I was open to him in his early career but then really saw he was not someone I like to follow, lack of GENUINE character, and not someone I want my kids to follow. Make all the excuses you want, never will be a goat to a lot of us due to how he acts and behaves. He can win as much as he wants at the end of the day he will be forgot as someone will pass him, but Federer will be remembered always when you talk about tennis around the world.
How ridiculous would it sound if somebody said, PSG or Manchester City or United or Barcelona... Is the greatest club of all time because of the influence and the star power of their players and their entertaining game style...... Is the greatest club of all time It'll sound nuts, because Real Madrid is number 1 by far when it comes to all numbers, the rest is all subjective and personal preference No one questions Real Madrid being the greatest in football, the only exception people make is in tennis
That's not true at all. People declare GOATs in sports ALL the time for players who don't have the best numbers (prime example: vast majority consider Tiger Woods the GOAT, even though he doesn't have the most major titles).
Deep down in your heart, you know it too😂😂 This guy just made a video to convince himself of his illusions. But it's good for him though, as he can get a good night sleep every time he's gonna listen to this video before sleep 🙏🏼😴😂
As of 2024, for me the GOAT has to be Novak, in professional sport, it's all about winning when it comes to this debate. And the fact that Novak holds every single important record in tennis makes it a no-brainer. Huge respect to Roger and the fact that he has this aura attatched to him is something great, but I see it as it is. Also, to me the second-greatest has to be Rafa since he won more slams (Including each them twice), M1000 and wins the H2H by a significant margin. Either way, the important thing here is that I feel very lucky to have been able to watch the Big Three.
The player I would pick if my life depended on it would be Djokovic because he finds a way to win... but, if I could choose how to play the game, I would still choose Federer because I like his playing style.
To make such a video, nearly completely ignoring Nadal is impressive. I really like Roger but if we reduced to two players debating over the goat. It should be Rafa and Novak. But that's just my opinion.
Federer impact on the world is unmatched. Federer was being cheered by fans against their own. That’s how big his impact was. Being 6 years older than Novak and Nadal, he still maintain the lead until retirement for those that count GS. And so far Novak has yet to win a GS at 37 despite being in form. I think a category that’s missing is all the trick in the book Novak uses when things don’t go his way. Just like he did today with his match with Fritz. Not that I think Fritz has the game to beat these guys.
I've always been partial to Novak, so I easily see him as the GOAT. I think he's had as much impact on the sport as Federer. Novak's been a vocal leader and has often been notorious topic on and off the court, this brings more attention to tennis. I love Fed and even Rafa but there really is no debate. People can have there sentimental favorites but its blasphemy to say anyone is the GOAT other than Novak!
goal post shifted only when federer lost most of his records (specially GS). even older say it is Borg or someone else. Most of tennis records are Novak's, other BS that comes along (popularity, impact on sport, finese, marketability) is on Fedex side of course. But as McEroe said: Tennis is not popularity contest.
Djokovic is the best because the numbers will be there for years , cultural impact get s lost after time , and many other things example , i found out about Rod Laver because of his GS calendar record , nothing more
Roger's fans say most grand slams are not the true measure of GOAT...because he did not win the most grand slam titles...if he had...they would say that is the true measure...
I don't like the "moving the goal posts" argument on the GOAT debate now that Novak has officially silenced the chatter involving the numbers. Novak is the greatest and I'm 100% a fan of Federer. Everyone has their favorite and a player they idolize. If one is resorting to numbers to make an argument, then there is no argument; it's Novak. I have so much respect for Novak for what he's accomplished on and off the court and his willingness to stand firm on his beliefs even when they were unpopular and could cost him his career. I firmly believe neither Roger or Rafa would hold an unpopular opinion publicly.
thats right. so personely i like djokovic for that. but his behaviour on the court with his toilette pause in crucial moments are very bad. and we are talking about sport and no politics
@@Solis225 lol i tried to refer to the point, that whodefan talks about the nice things off the court. And yes it there is a point of sportmanship which also is a component for the debate. And your facts count nothing when they are not seen relatively to the time....and that is the debate. But i can imagine is diffucult to understand for u.
This is an interesting thought experiment, imagine the ages of both players were reversed. Djokovic turning pro in 1998, and Federer turning pro in 2003. How different would the numbers have been? Would Djokovic have capitalized on the head start like Federer did? It’s tough because I view Djokovic’s game as being somewhat forged by going up against the players ahead of him already. Being battled tested against the greats right out of the gate. Anyway interesting to think about
results are what matters , play gracefully or not , an untamable beast in his 20s to a strategic old superstar , hes been all that and won no matter what
Would like someone thoughts and opinion on the elo rating. In 2015, djokovic has the highest elo rating ever. But at Us open and wimbledon final he played against roger and won. So if he lost those 2 matches against roger, would his elo rating be the highest ever? But because he win it proves he's the best, but its a weird standard of measurement at the same time because we are using the criteria of him beating a 2015 roger to prove that he is better than 2006 roger. It's funny that whenever novak achieves something, it has roger's name baked into it. Would just be alot easier if we saw them play peak for peak at the same age.
There's another major consideration. What player is the best or most dominant on his very best day. Clay excluded cause that's Rafa. Or maybe it could actually boil down to who's the greatest on his best day ( but what surface we talking? Roger has the most tactical weapons for grass and hard but Novak could rise and conteract those weapons as he did in 2019 Wimbledon. Roger was literally an inch away from the championship with the T serve that was a tiny bit out. Probably give him bad dreams to this day.
Enough already. "Graceful" = being the GOAT? It's ludicrous. Djokovic overtook the other Big 3 members, and he did it during their prime years. And - if the Western world is willing to concede that China & India exist, Novak is the most popular player worldwide as well. Novak is the best of player of all time - and he is also the GOAT. There just isn't any doubt.
@@NN-zf7np So for Novak, his 30's were his prime, but for Federer not so much? Is that not a double standard? The fact is thy played eachj other plenty of times during their best years. Roger had the edge when Novak was a kid, and Novak later gained the upper hand. 27-23 head to head, which is just one of the scores of stats that make Novak the superior player lifetime.
@@markogjorgiev4912 Agreed! And "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. Rafa's forehand down the line? Absolutely beautiful in my eyes. Just like Novak's backhand down the line. But the MOST beautiful part is....... the results!
I'll just paraphrase Novak and say that the beauty of this sport and this GOAT conversation is that there's no definitive answer, there are plenty of valid arguments in favor of many players and the conversation never ends, and that's good for Tennis.
Djokovic is clearly the GOAT, but I enjoy watching Federer more. Felt the same about Sampras and Agassiz - Sampras was clearly better but I like Agassiz' game better.
Djokovic did it in big 4 era fed was the goat he is still perfect but until djokovic did what he did. Stats are the facts 100 years from now people will show stats not feelings so based on stats they will say novak was the best if nobody wins more than him.
It’s kinda of like the Senna/ Schumacher in Formula One: yes, Lewis has all the records now, but many still think that the old greats can’t not be surpassed, because the legacy is beyond those numbers. Someone who watched Senna in his prime would be unlikely to change their minds that Senna is the best driver of all time. Same for Roger: he drove so many people into this sport. He had all the shots in the book. He made tennis art. It’s almost unsurpassable for many people, including me. For me, Roger is always the one who plays the most amazing tennis. Period. Nothing will change my mind about it. But as much as I am a Fed fan, I totally agree that Nole is the Greatest Tennis Player of All Time. You can’t take that away from Nole, he wants it, he worked so hard for it, he overcame those matches which Roger and Rafa would likely be defeated. He won everything. How can you not say he’s the best? We don’t need to disapprove other players to support the one we love.
La diferencia es que senna y Schumacher no se enfrentaron nunca y tampoco son Hamilton. Son de épocas diferentes. el tenis Nova Roger y Rafa se enfrentaron en un deporte individual. Semana tras semana se enfrentaron. No hay excusa Bro. Simplemente el serbio salió vencedora no hay escusa.
Federer is the Golden Child of tennis, he can do no wrong in the eyes of fans, unfortunately Bias is at play in the Goat conversation, people are being bias, Nadal is my fav but i have to be objective Novak is better
Federer is an elegant combination of athleticism and grace. An eye candy, broke the records initially until nadal and djokovic came along. Federer and Fernando Gonzales are 2 of my favorite tennis players ever. But I cannot deny the dominance that djokovic has displayed over the years. I stopped following tennis between 2011 to 2015. Just got back to intermittently follow it a few years ago. And I was shocked to have found out that both nadal and djokovic broke federer's GS record. And not only that, head-to-head, djokovic leads him. Watching federer play was always a joy to me and my family, and pretty frustrating if he was playing against nadal back then, I still remember hating nadal for beating federer a lot of times that we would usually change the channel 😂. As for djokovic, watching him play is meh, like watching paint dry. However, he is this era's great in tennis, that I cannot deny.
MJ walked on air and like his nicknames, “the black cat” or “black Jesus” mystified crowds with his art form. Federer personified this artistry. Djokovic similarly to LeBron, has longevity and physically on his side. Djokovic’s ability to out hustle his youthful opponents, cover the court, and lack of perceivable weakness, have allowed him to remain dominant well into normal retirement age. Give them both their props!
But Lebron is not Djokovic, he has yet to surpass Jordan in rings, MVPs, FMVs, defensive player of the year... In tennis it is unique. Djokovic has surpassed Federer in almost all relevant records. But he is not the favorite.
@@tadikebedeyou have valid points. Tennis doesn’t really keep individual stats the way team sports do. Maybe mine was a poor analogy. In my opinion, LeBron has passed career individual stats in a similar way to a tennis players career achievements, and MJ’s artistry, gracefulness, and worldwide popularity are more like Federer. My main point was artistically/culturally Federer has stood uniquely positioned, and longevity/ physically Djokovic has stood uniquely positioned.
Why can't we just appreciate the fact that tennis give us the best players to witnessed in our lifetime? Let's just all enjoy the sports has to offer while we live.. any GOAT players discussion at present and in any time in any sport is irrelevant.. they are all great 💪
Human condition, taking what they have for granted. Yep incredible Djokovic/ Federer/ Nadal & Murray (he played just as well in his peak, just couldn't cross the finish line on top at the biggest stages as much) all played in roughly the same era. 2008-2012 especially, incredible time to be a tennis fan
If you're uncertain about who the GOAT is, answer this question. Imagine an alien species came to Earth, and wants to know our culture. They came to know about sports, and then tennis in particular, and ask us the best example of tennis being played. Who would you show? I'd mostly show Federer, no doubt. Maybe a little Nadal, especially in clay. But I wouldn't bore them with Djokovic.
I think prime Federer beats prime Novak . I realize that isn't really the comparison but I'd rather watch someone go all out offense than happily settle into another 40 shot rally
Djokovic being the most successful and complete (in terms of winning tournaments not playing style) he has the highest arguments on his sides to be called the GOAT.
Those who call Federer the goat are those who do not have the intelligence to bypass their emotions and get to the rational part of the brain. Then they try to do some mental gymnastics to say that being the best is not the same as the greatest, which is just absurd, but then we are not dealing with intelligent people. Sport is measured in results. The person with the best/greatest results is the best/greatest player. It is that simple.
That just simply isn't true. There's just soooo many factors, variables, circumstances, CONTEXT, etc., etc. to take into account. How you arrive at those numbers, how you _get_ those numbers, MATTERS. I'm sorry your black-and-white-thinking brain can't comprehend that or things such as nuance.
If only life were that simple…Joker fans love his crazy stats. Fed fans love how elegantly he plays. One of these will be beaten, but I doubt anyone will be more elegant on the court, while being effective, than Federer. Novak’s numbers are historical accomplishments, but all records get broken eventually. The GOAT of stats is always up for change, while the beauty of Roger’s game probably will not be undone. Both are amazing, and despite this GOAT argument, hopefully we can all appreciate them, both, fully for the amazing things they bring to the table.
When Federer held the record for most GS that’s what being the GOAT was all about. When Nole eclipsed that and then some, “Naaaw but Federer’s impact goes beyond the stats. Plus he’s very graceful on the court blah blah blah blah blah,” and then they say Nole is the BEST, Roger is the GREATEST. Nole is the GOAT period. Anyone who says otherwise is just basing their conclusions off of their feelings.
Roger took the 90's style of tennis and perfected it. Novak created a new and more successful style. People love Roger because they find old school, fast-paced, shotmaking tennis more entertaining than the current baseline slugfests that make up most tournaments now
If Roger came 5 years after Nadal and Novak, he wouldn't be nearly as popular. He benefitted greatly coming at the end of another great era with Sampras and Agassi. Similar to how Alcaraz and Sinner are collecting all the Federer and Nadal fans now.
@@BOZ_11 The presumption that Novak would have played the way he does now and not adapt to the requirements of the 90s is juvenile. Moreover, the arguments with "what if" scenarios are themselves juvenile to begin with.
@@326gundu Everybody does everything possible to fulfil all of their serving potential, irrespective of era. Volleys are about hand/eye coordination, reflexes, reaction times and racquet-head control. You either have it or you don't. Kygrios had better volleys by age 19 than Novak in his prime, so did Monfils.
Yes it'a a personal conviction thing. For me, the GOAT would be the athlete that best represents tennis, an iconic figure that transcends generations before, current and after, and inspires people to be like him/her.
As you said, Fed is the best front runner by far; and I would say the most gifted/experienced grass player by far. But the moment he failed to convert 2 championship points at 2019 Wimbledon final set, Djokovic demonstrated at THE highest stake, he can still go a tad higher than Fed. I feel for Fed though, but you got to accept that someone is better than you.
Yes, that's true. But he will be remembered for a long time. Perhaps even longer than the other two. I suspect that his 14 French Opens will last longer than any other tennis record currently standing.
If I need someone to beat an alien in a tennis match for the fate of the Earth, I'm picking Novak. If I'm showing someone the beauty, thrill, and sportsmanship of tennis, I'm showing them Roger. I think this mountain has two peaks.
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter. It’s all an ego contest between fans. The benefit is that it brings greater attention to the sport itself. Someday another name will come along.
Harsh truth: it's generational. Sampras would never be forgotten. He was. No one even talks about him anymore. They are entertainment products. And they get the best of it, too. Imagine what the poor losers go through. Novak will remain because of the numbers. And when people forget the matches, (Yeah, cause no one remembers them after a while) stats is what counts. There, I hope I helped you and the "goat" debate. If Nole wins one more two more slams, goat until someone breaks it.
Wrong… Federer is the GOAT as the term « GOAT » doesn’t rely on statistics but on the appreciation of talent, skills, personality and positive influence. Djoko has the best statistics in tennis, but he is certainly not the GOAT according to worldwide tennis fans.
@@robertl.6919 You know absolutely NOTHING about Djokovic. Well, he spent almost his entire tennis career trying to help tennis players get a better status. And he is known in the world for his monetary donations to other countries. Nadal and Federer didn't do that.
As a Federer fan I'm happy to concede that Novak is the most complete player of all time, winning 24 Grand Slams. I just don't think he had as much natural talent and didn't play as beautifully as Federer. I also think that Nadal's 14 French Open titles are as impressive as the total tally of 24.
I know people say that titles don’t matter, but ultimately if you play great and look appealing but end up not winning that matters. Novak had to come from a country with a lack of resources and if you look at how far each have come, Federer had his parents invest tons of money into jump starting his career while Novak had to prove himself and rise from way below than Federer. Federer might have gotten me into tennis but Novak is the one that keeps me motivated to win instead of look all fancy and smooth which doesn’t get you wins. This is the Goat of tennis, not the goat of fashion and appeal people just add all of these different criteria to the goat checklist to benefit Federer. Can anybody explain to me why being better looking or getting more money and sponsorships make you more of a great tennis player? Don’t think you can.
@@thesoccergod I never said his parents were rich, they were well off and invested a lot in his career, if you look at Novak he came from a country with a lot of poverty where even though he was pretty good with money in his own country he had to sacrifice more to come from a country nobody cared about. Well off in Switzerland vs well off in Serbia is vastly different. You should read my comment before saying delusional stuff.
@@ayod0011 Djokovic is from Serbia, which was a part of erstwhile Yugoslavia, a region with a *significant* tennis history; definitely more significant than Switzerland's. It's why Fed ended up being coached by an _Aussie_ named Peter Carter (who showed up in Switzerland after a failed tennis career) while Djoko was coached by Genčić, *Seles's* former coach. Serbia had its problems, yes, but there's no need to pretend like Djokovic came from Compton. The truth is that Djoko's a lower-elite player who *lucked out big time* because of the abysmal failure of the 90s-born gen (barring Thiem on clay & hard) at Bof5 tennis. Because there is *no way* a player whose slam split as a seeded player is 12/46 (26%) + 12/19 (63%) is the "greatest" at his sport. Winningest? Yes, he has the most titles. But put those titles (especially the slams & WTFs he won in his 30s) in context & one sees why he's the GOoAT (Greatest Opportunist of All Time) in tennis history. I'll give him his due & say that his prime (AO11-RG16) was second only to Fed's prime (AO2004-AO2010), but that's as far as one can go without bending the truth.
I was desperate for Roger Federer to be the GOAT, but Novak has surpassed him. Even though i prefer Federer and Nadal, you cant deny Djokovic's record and accomplishments. The number of majors is the most important determining factor for being the GOAT. Fortunately for Djokovic he has other important records in addition to 24 slams. I have made peace with this because it's the fact.
Djokovic is the djokovicest player, and Federer is the federest. No one can beat that.
This is the truest factualest comment glad I liked your comment it is indeed the bestest.
When considering impact and significance, Djokovic's stance towards tennis players' union and advocating a system with only the player's interest at heart deserves at least a mention. Unlike him, both Federer and Nadal were indifferent regarding tennis being a sport with 10 people being filthy rich, another 90 financially secured and the remaining few thousand struggling to stay in the sport, being dependent or indebted or even doing day jobs, which speaks volumes about their character. Especially because tennis is the only out of 4 major world-popular sports where the financial distribution of profits is around 30% towards players. At Grand Slams is even lower, they distribute about 10-15% of their earnings into prize money.
Novak is a very good human being first then he is undoubtedly the GOAT.....❤
❤❤
I believe he's doing it to have a career after tennis. Not in the interest of other players. He's never been that type of person
@@distico You belive also in flat Earth?
@@djordjespasic2179 why do you say that? nole is never been such a kind type of person. stop trolling
@@distico Djokovic just wants to help any way he can. He is well known for his philanthropy, giving tens of millions of euros to hospitals, treatment of sick children, schools, students, churches, and others in need in Serbia.
He spoke about how after his retirement he will stay involved with tennis, run his academy, write memoirs, enjoy life with his family, travel the world, things like that, and he clearly said many times he does not want to get involved in politics as he believes he will best help through philanthropy.
You can believe that he is doing everything for himself, it's your opinion. He actually is a good man who wants to give back to his nation and help the sport that gave him everything.
If you took the stats difference between Novak and Fed and made it a player it would be a career of a top 30 player of all time.
In terms of titles? Weeks at number 1? Would it not be a top 5 or top 10 player of all time?
@@ada5851 true, it would basically be andy murray
@@BOZ_11Bro. The stat difference. Novak has 24 Slams and Roger 20. That difference is 4, similar to Murray.
you aren't wrong here. 4 GS, 12 masters, 1 Olympic gold, 1 ATP finals and 3 year end no 1. Great career indeed.
@@BOZ_11 is your iq above 60?
Stats difference between Đoković and Federer:
- 4 Grand slams
- 12 Masters 1000
- 1 ATP finals
- 118 weeks as no1
- 3 year end no1
- Olympic gold
Player with this stats would be a tennis legend. This is the best way to see how big the difference between these two really is.
also 1 "all natural" diet
Its just show how ridiculous the big three numbers are. Thats all. You cant separate excellence.
those are basically Murray's stats xD
@@МатијаРадуловић impressive stat s for sure - less impressive is his x 8 slams he won from 2020 to 23 " playing weak era new gen players , and 3 or 4 very easy draws in grand slams .
It's not Djokovic s fault of coarse , but it's these stats that put him in front largely
Prior 2020 , he was sitting on 15 slams and all those other stats you mention , were somewhat less
@@johnrenehan7406 If you wanna look at it like that, you could also say the same for Federer, since he won majority of his slams beofore Nadal and Djokovic showed up.
I'm an heretic spaniard who rooted for Federer instead of Nadal. Federer is the player I have enjoyed tennis the most with, and although I love Nadal as he has given a lot to my country, I couldn't resist myself as Federer was not only a tennis player but an artist.
But let's get real. The Joker is the best player of all time and it is not even close.
because of the slowing condition and a lot of factors Best player of this generation but GOAT surely not
What dumb statement.you have to play what you have to play.its utter nonsense.there is nothing else they could have done except play after put forward@@cpt-r.federer5940
"and it is not even close." yeah, you lost me there
@@BOZ_11 u cant even beat him on a single statistic excpet the carrer titles of 250 titles
@@vypervfx7519 A few, actually. Most consecutive weeks at #1, the only player to win two majors 5 years in a row. Most Wimbledon titles, most Wimbledon finals, and the all-time highest grass win rate.
- People when Sampras had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT.
- People when Federer had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT.
- People when Nadal had the Grand Slam record: He's the GOAT.
- Haters when Djokovic had the Grand Slam record: IT'S NOT ABOUT NUMBERS.
BS and hypocrisy, Novak Djokovic is not only the GOAT or the best player ever. Whatever you call it, He's probably the greatest athlete ever.
The arguments against Novak are solely based on sentimentalism, not by facts.
This is tennis, not a beauty contest.
@josequintero8615 You've gone off the boil like Aussies like to say. Keep convincing yourself. Emotions absolutely matter - too bad you don't understand that.
Facts are never the end all be all for one's status as the GOAT. The greatest athlete could also be a stretch, as tennis is neither the hardest nor the most athletic sport. Many other sports are much more difficult, and people who can do well in those sports are better athletes, according to pure fact as you so solemnly swear by.
i agree easily the goat athlete, no athlete can touch him, the greatest in and out.
Actually, many experts considered Federer the GOAT while he was at his peak level FAR before he was even close to Pete’s record
Greatest "tennis" player ever sure I can agree with that greatest athlete ever?? You completely lost your senses with that. How do you even start to make such a claim there are so many factors to take into account. Not to mention there are sports that are team based sports and sports that are solo based. So you just disregard the greats achievement in team based sports all together because it's not a single person sport? Ridiculous statement lol
"I think Novak has the more complete skillset overall, but since we have to pick someone lets go with Federer" hahah what? come on man
He was just trying to show some love to Federer lmaoooo. He’s one of Novak’s biggest fans
Federer Fanboys In a nutshell
Look, if you walk around the F1 paddock and ask drivers who the greatest of all time is? Most drivers say senna. Not Schumacher, and certainly not Hamilton. Why? He only had 3 WDC’s. It’s not about numbers for a lot of people, it’s the person that made them the most excited about the sport. And for a lot of people, watching Djokovic isn’t very exciting.
Stats over feelings. History will only remember the one who had all the numbers
history will remember you = 🏳️🌈
We are seeing this now, History remembers Federer even though his numbers are slightly inferior.
I stand with Novak, I feel Federer was more appealing and even the narrators have a bias against Djokovic... for me I always love the gladiator willing to speak up against status quo. But whichever man is dominating their era, it is for a reason, both absolute beasts.
Very interesting to see what comes next.
I always preferred Federer to Djokovic, but the Djoker’s insane run post-2020 caused him to surpass basically all of Fed’s accomplishments. I think tennis has 3 GOATs, but if you made me pick one, it’s Djokovic.
It is "insane", but for reasons like this one.
From 2017-2024
ND vs Top 10
Zverev+Tsitsi+Matteo: 9-0 in slams (20-3 overall)
Thiem+Sinner+Alcaraz: 3-5 in slams (10-11 overall)
@@thesoccergod Federer and Djokovic both farmed a weak era, but difference is that Fed did it in his prime and Djokovic did it in his Oldovic years. Of course the latter is harder.
@@baguettedepain3975 The usual spewing of brainless 'weak era' BS, as taught by Sobovic, the chief of the croc cult.
Did you know that when 2004 began, FIVE players (including Fed) below 25 y.o had a > overall 70% win rate in Bof5s. Fed's genius _made all his peers inferior,_ unlike Djokovic, who needed a truckload of luck to barely lead 29-31 y.o Fed (2011-12) in slams.
It's why you'll *never* be able to show me the kind of discrepancy in Fed's numbers from 2003-07 that I've shown you with Djoko's.
@@baguettedepain3975 Lol. Federer en route to the AO 2004 alone won as many slam matches against slam champions (Hewitt, Safin, Ferrero) as Djokovic won in all his seven slams in the 2021-23 period.
@@thesoccergod I really wonder why there were so many slam champions that Federer could beat in his time when there was almost none to be found in Oldovic time... It's almost like 3 players had completely monopolized grand slams in the 15 years prior and deprived en entire generation of players of them. Why couldn't Djokovic play in an easier era like peak Fed? Definitely not the goat. /s
Bro Djokovic won 4 Wimbledon titles in a row!!!!!!!!
And he beat The "King of Grass" 3 times in Wimbledon Finals. 2014 - 2015 - 2019. That's insane when you think about it
@@mansrow1712 I still cant figure whos best on grass - Rog leads 8 7 in wimby but nole got him thrice in championship match.
And he is 6 consecutive finals and counting
And would have been five if 2020 hadn't been cancelled (he won the two before and the two after)
Djokovic is the goat, and Federer is the toat. Talentiest of all time xD
Talientest and Winningest 🤣 Nadal is the FOAT. Fightiest Of All Time. The Big TOADs (Big Thee Of All Time) 🐸
@@Edu2503 nole BOAT fed GOAT
@@matebreskovic5880 that's ok too, but I was joking with the TOAD thing lol
Until novak broke all federers records he wasnt the goat and rightfully so because of said records, now that he broke most of them new terms are being made to invalidate him and push roger above him, he won more, has winning record against both roger and nadal, while federer has won less and has losing records against both, i agree as a serb that rogers game looks WAY prettier and that hes more popular but novak is the goat and there isnt any argument against it when it comes down to actual sport
Serbs are way too invested in whether Djokovic is regarded as a goat or not. Has zero relevance on your life
It's not just his beautiful technique, on his worst day he hit twice as many winners as Novak (quantitative, not qualitative). He also hit a lot more errors, but that's the trade-off; you can't be a skilful attacker and keep a single digit error rate when you're going for higher risk shots. The only person today who can keep going for higher risk shots and win matches against top 20 guys, is Carlos
also for u. Numbers are one point, but u cant compare the numbers of Borg with Djokovic without put them in relation to the time. when it is so easy then we need no discussion. There are good reason to put Borg above Djokovic. the sport is there to break records. u are not the best when u hold a record. this would be very unfair for older players. but u can have ur djokovic on the top if your liv is better so...
@@BOZ_11 8-7 40-15
Margaret Court had 24 slams, 1 more than Serena. Jack Nicklaus had 18 majors, 3 more than Tiger. Jabbar had most MVP’s and more points than Jordan. Court, Nicklaus, Novak, Jabbar? …. OR Serena, Tiger, Roger, Jordan.😀😀😀😀
Djokovic is extremely humble, and yet is not as popular as Federer cos of his tough, all-round (too good), underrated, defensive, warrior-style demeanor, while Federer's artistic, graceful, Mozart- style also looks good on the outside. But results don't lie!
I would add Rafa back into the debate. Rafa arguably had the most setbacks, facing both prime Roger and Novak, along with dozens of injuries in which he had to make insane comebacks literally every year.
And his obvious incredible runs in Roland Garros.
He has better stats than Roger, and is closer to Novak than we may think.
All statistics indicate that Federer is better than Nadal on hard surfaces and grass surfaces Hardwood and grass floors represent more than 70% of the total hardwood, grass and dirt floors That is, Federer is better than Nadal on most surfaces, with the exception of clay, which represents less than 30% of the total surfaces.
@@mosab.2815 not at all trying to be disrespectful here but the case for Federer falls apart considering the matchups between the three greatest tennis players in existence. Statistically, it's evident that Novak and Roger are the best and most consistent Hard/Grass-court players. However by looking at the H2Hs and the most important occassions where all the three faced each other, Federer has only been the favorite against Nadal on grass and indoor hard (=by far Nadals weakest environment) (WIM 2006/07/18 vs. WIM 2008; ATP finals 2010/11 vs. 2013), while continously loosing against him at AO (2009/12/14 vs. AO 2017). Djokovic, on the contrary pretty much dominated Nadal at hard court (with the exemption being the US Open) and - although closer - on grass as well.
Assessing Djokovic vs. Federer is a little less clear on the first look. Overall, Djokovic won the most important matchups (e.g. WIM 2019), while Federer was the only one being able to stop a prime Djokovic occassionally on hard & grass courts. I would argue Federer is probably the one able to generate the highest quality of tennis on hard & grass courts in general, but, particularly mentally, faltered in the most important moments against the other two. Taking everything into perspektive, I would always give the advantage (besides of course on clay) to Djokovic which leads me to a ranking him FIRST, followed by Nadal at TWO - as he managed to beat Federer in all his favorite venues, while Federer never had the slightest chance on clay.
That's it!
(-;
@@mosab.2815 If nadal had fewer injuries and the same amount of competition as Roger/Novak, he would have eclipsed 25, maybe even 30 grand slams
he is the least versatile of the three
@@sv-bd5em yes but why is that? Because he had the most competition in his prime!
Big Titles counter says:
1. Djokovic 72
2. Nadal 59
3. Federer 54
4. Lendl 33
5. McEnroe/Sampras 32
6. Connors 31
7. Agassi 27
8. Laver/Borg 25
9. Becker 23
10. Murray 20
So pick your GOAT carefully
BOAT list...
Nadal 🙃
Djokovic GOAT
I’m a Nadal fan, but I must admit Djokovic is unarguably the GOAT. He beat prime Nadal seven times on clay, including two times at RG and in four Masters 1000 finals (1 Monte-Carlo / 1 Madrid / 2 Rome). Federer only beat Nadal twice on clay (16 matches); he fell to Nadal in his two least-favorable surfaces twice (10 matches). Nadal has a positive H2H against Federer in outdoor hard courts (8-6), in spite of having lost all of their last four matchups on this surface in 2017. Having said all this, the Big 3 were extremely entertaining and gave us plently of quality tennis throghout their careers.
None of Novak’s wins against Nadal at RG were “peak Nadal”. I’d say Soderling is the only guy to beat a peak Nadal at RG
@@eduardosanchez3975 not fully correct - fact - at RG he beat Nadal twice only ; once in 2015 when Nadal was fresh back from injury's and maybe 60% ; the other in 2021 , in a semi - was a single best result against a fit Nadal
Fact 2 - Djokovic has NEVER beaten Nadal in a RG final - not in 4 or 5 attempts
He shares this stat with federal
@@johnrenehan7406 You are not right. "Eduardo Sanchez" is right. Đoković has 7 wins against Nadal on a clay, Federer only 2 wins . All the people know,that the second best player on Clay was last 20 years Đoković.
Djokovic has more Grand Slams, more Masters, more ATP Tour Finals, more year end no. 1 finishes, more weeks at no. 1, a better head-to-head, a higher peak by measuring both players best seasons and did it all in a tougher era and with more hostile Western crowds.
"Tougher era"
Karatsev, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Thiem, Medvedev, Berrettini, Paul, Fritz, Ruud
50% of his GS are like that, the weak era argument for Djokovic fans about Federer career backfired like one great example of karma
@@Isaac-RJ "50% of his GS are like that, the weak era argument for Djokovic fans about Federer career backfired like one great example of karma"
That's a knife to the heart
@@BOZ_11truly a dagger big homie but I still think noles best and fed greatest
@Nostalgic-24 Agassi, Safin, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Ferrero, Coria, Davidenko, Nadal, and so on
@Nostalgic-24 medvedev is better than both zverev and thiem, yet roger is 3-0 there. "Styles makes fights"
One GOAT that is the Joke. Nidal can clame the best on clay tho.
Novak had special gift he was able to make players lose their powers in important moments mentally
That is something that Roger and Rafa had too but when we compere only Big 3 we can safely say Novak made Rafa and Roger feel worried playing him in tie breaks and fifth sets
Novak is the Goat in the aspect of mental stability
Roger was the Goat in the aspect of Technical perfection
Rafa was the Goat in the aspect of never giving up and always giving 100% until he wins
Lolol. Up to and including the Wim 2015 final, Fed was 8-4 in slam tiebreaks vs Vulturovic. Djoko's "mental strength" is one of the biggest myths in tennis. It's so easily shown up by his defeats to elite peers & younger players.
@@thesoccergod 2010 Us open Fed lost 2Mps
2011 Us open Fed lost 2 Mps
2019 Wimb Fed lost 2 Mps
2020 Thiem lost final AO vs Novak from good position
2021 Stefanos lost from 2-0 vs Novak RG
2012 AO Novak came back in the fifth set from Nadal and winning the longest match in history
2019 Wimb was the longest Wimb final too
2021 Novak came back from 0-2 to Mussetti
2018 Wimbledon SF Novak beated Rafa in close fifth set
2014 Novak smashed Roger in 6-4 breaking him in the fifth set
Shanghai Masters final vs Delpo Novak won
and many more matches show Novak mental stability
2023 Cincinati final Old Novak came back vs Alcaraz an beated him in mental tie break and mental match 3 hours
so learn and then talk
I've been a Federer fan for years, but I think saying he's still the GOAT is grasping at straws.
As it stands, I'd say he's the second best of all-time and the best on grass.
The beauty of his game, his unmatched marketability and off-court activities and achievements can all be properly celebrated without arguing he's the GOAT.
Novak's numbers just don't lie.
Oh but the numbers *_do_* lie. Put them in context & their ludicrousness is shown up.
ND in slams
Wim 2007 to RG 2016: 12 slams won of 36 slams played (all 36 as a Top 5 player) ; win rate = 33%
Wim 2018 to USO 2023: 12 slams won of 19 played (17 as a Top 5 player) ; win rate = 63%
Meanwhile, in that same period (from Wim 2018 to USO 2023)
ND vs Top 10
Zverev+Tsitsipas+Berrettini: 9-0 in slams (22-4 overall)
Thiem+Sinner+Alcaraz: 3-2 in slams (5-5 overall)
Djokovic is the undisputed *GOoAT (Greatest Opportunist of All Time),* not just in tennis but across sports.
24>20, is this true or false?
@@thesoccergod And you are the Biggest Liar of all Time.BLOAT
@@thesoccergod As I see you posted this everywhere I'll reply here as well...
Numbers don't lie, but _YOUR_ numbers do lie, run the same analysis for Federer
Novak wasn't even playing in highest level in 2006, just as Federer was not playing highest level in 2001
Federer joined ATP in 1998, Djokovic in 2003, so let's start counting from 5 years after each one joined
Djokovic:
AO 2008 to RG 2018: 12/42 slams won (29%) ; age: 24-31 y.o [7 years]
Wim 2018 to USO 2024: 12/26 slams won (46%) ; age 31-37 y.o [6 years]
Federer:
Wim 2003 to AO 2010: 16/27 slams won (60%) ; age: 22-29 y.o [7 years]
RG 2010 to USO 2022: 04/51 slams won (08%) ; age 29-41 y.o [12 years]
Let's compare the eras that we blame them for opportunism:
- Federer in 2003-2010 was 22-29 yo and he grabbed 16 GS
- Djokovic in 2018-2024 was 31-37 yo and he grabbed 12 GS
- It's way easier for Federer to peak at his 20s with most of the best players around retiring and new gen still weak. In just 6 yrs of his career, when Nadal and Djokovic were not around, he won 80% of all his GS
- Djokovic was in his 30s with big players around including Fed and Nadal and a new generation already strong
@@thesoccergod And besides that, Federer had massive contracts with big companies (e.g. Nike)
Djokovic always had reduced contracts because of the hatred towards him from people like you
Federer opened his own group of companies and his fortune is over $500 million
While Djokovic has over $200 million
But even though this huuuge difference of 2.5x, Djokovic has donated more money to charity than Federer
What is your excuse for your "goat"?
Nole is the GOAT and he completed Tennis.
Have you seen Dustin Brown playing?..why isn’t he the Goat?
Fedal fans bragged olympic gold for 15 years. Now suddenly they are saying he doesn't need to win it 😂😂 or it doesn't matter.
You haven't completed tennis if you haven't won the biggest prize, the Grand Slam. No man has won all four slam tournaments in the same year since Rod Laver. Djokovic almost did it, but fell short. Now he's too old. Maybe Sinner or Alcaraz can do it? It'll be extremely tough.
My problem with this analysis is that before Novak started coming close to Roger’s records that Federer fans said “as long as roger has the most slams and most weeks at rank 1 he is the goat because he holds all important records” now novak has broken them and they bring in all these intangibles. I adore both but it seems fed fans change the rules mid game
He was given time, but did not pass the test.. maybe when the generation that saw prime Federer start dying, numbers will finally settle the debate
If Roger had maintained the records there would be no argument. The fact that Novak claimed clear statistical supremacy, and only then people started moving the goalposts to keep Roger on top, to me reeks of a popularity contest divorced from sport. Also classism honestly, which I think is clearly present. Novak is the goat, end of, it's not a discussion
"Classism" - Novak the representative and hero of the 3rd worlders, he is winning titles for you guys
@@Stu49583Very proud to be from"3rd world"country and have the goat in tenis and Best basketball player right now😍
100% agreed.
@@Stu49583 I always see that "Novak fans are the most toxic" but I only ever see fedal fans making racist and insulting comments like this
@@LazarCajkovic Against eurocentrism and classism djokovic is indeed an icon, some people talk about his popularity as if we live in a vaccum. The thing is with his Serbian nationality and position in the PTPA the west has never treated him without animosity
We are certainly witnessing the final period of the greatest era ever in men's tennis. With Andy and Rafa retiring in 2024 it leaves just Novak remaining. I've been watching tennis closely since 1970 and its been a thorough privilege to watch the many champions come and go for over 50 years.
The sport has evolved and players have got better with each generation. Most sports fans, particularly at a certain age become emotionally attached to a team or in the case of tennis, a player and he or she will be their favourite. I remember this being the case for me with Rod Laver. In the era of wooden racquets he was hitting backhand topspin lobs! He completed the calendar GS both as an amateur and then again as a pro.
Its mpossible to compare players 40 years apart but since Rod the best player I've witnessed is Novak Djokovic. This is no putdown upon Roger. They both and with Rafa have provided so many with so many hours of wonderful entertainment and each have been above excellent.
Given that they share the same era, or at least have a significant overlap it is fare to compare them.
Novak rates higher because he has consistent accuracy on all his shots on defence, neutral and offence. This allows him more shot patterns and strategies. With his incredible athletic prowess and tactical intellect he has the arsenal to win in almost any circumstance. His winning statistics are a result of his game.
Roger has been the most popular player ever. Novak's rise has been very difficult for Roger's fans but they need not feel that Novak's career in any way diminishes Roger's wonderful talent, his record and reputation as a player. We've all been blessed to witness this wonderful era.
That's a charitable and fair assessment of the "real" Big 4 (Fed, Rafa, Nole, and Rod). I would say that Novak is the most complete (and best) player of the last forty-fifty years, and even if he isn't the most talented or best on a single surface, he made it his business to win - to design strategies that would break down the games, styles, and tendencies of his chief rivals. I think Djokovic deserves a lot of credit for the career that he's made for himself; he's not the most naturally gifted or well-liked tennis player, but he's persevered in the face of this (and other) adversity. However, I would not call him the "GOAT". If I'm thinking the absolute greatest ever, then I need to look no further than Nadal...ON CLAY! If tennis were only played on the red dirt, then Rafael would be the greatest, hands down. Would he have fifty majors and 200 career titles, probably not; the other two would have had to play catch-up some how, and their own games would have been better adjusted to that surface. But it's the dominance over anyone else and the raw statistical data that towers over any other player that I notice with Nadal on clay - that's (to me) a G.O.A.T. Furthermore, Rod Laver is probably the all-time greatest as far as I'm concerned. Most people would be quick to point out his "mere" eleven majors, but there are other big titles that he bagged when he wasn't permitted to play the slam events, plus a number of slam doubles trophies (and he is still the record holder in men' singles titles). His adaptability was superb (yes, three of the four majors were on grass, but Rod won titles on all surfaces, including wood!), he had a substantial head-to-head record over his chief rivals, he helped Australia win five Davis Cups, and was significantly shorter than basically every other standout player of the era. Rod Laver took tennis achievement to new heights with his ability, humility, and manner both on and off the court, and many of his records still stand to this day.
Great comment
NOvak is the greatest athlete ever of all time conditioning, flexiblity,mental strength,endurance,smarts,resillence on and on,, tennis is the only TRUE SPORT u play for 3-5 hours, different surfaces, different time zones, elements of weather,..Basketball they play for 20min, controlled enviroment,same time zone, same surface, half times rest after playing for10min!! boxing is punching someone in the head!! american football the ball is in motion for 7 min for 3 hour game of constant time outs,quater/half time..american Football looks like a infomercial
Fed made me watch tennis....saw he randomly at the us open one day and literally finished the tournament watching his matches. He just played different and went for winners not pushing the Ball hoping for mistakes
Nadal had to experience both Federer and Djokovic prime during his prime and still is 21-11 up against them in Grand Slams and has won 22 grand slams and missed 18
His numbers are skewed more on clay. I do see your claim but Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever.
He plays them on clay, and ducks Novak on HC
@@av618 Novak won 15 hard court grand slams. Isn't that skewed as well?
@@dzailibu What does "ducking" him even mean.
@@jonathanb1406 avoiding
In an individual sport, all that matters are the victories, the titles, the records. That's why these players are training hard. That's why even legends like Big 3 were crying after a final, even if they already achieved so much in their careers. Everybody wants to be the best & everyone wants to win titles. The GOAT status in tennis is pretty obvious. In 2020 , Federer was the GOAT, in 2022 was Nadal. Since last year, is Djoker. And by far. There's no debate about that. Ofcourse, it can be debatable wich one is more popular, talented,aesthetic etc...but that's a subjective opinion. 🤷
the world is so simple...man man so superficial!
Starting position as a criteria? Novak comes from a country with no tennis tradition, no tennis system to support the development of the players, with a weak economy. Also, when he was developing the country was in war and suffered international sanctions. He had many more obstacles to even become a professional tennis player.
Novak has the numbers 24 slams. Andy Roddick said anything other than statistics just feelings. Novak had Roger number that's the truth he dominated Roger from 2011 until his retirement. Roger is 1-4 against Novak in slam finals. Novak also has edge in their head to head.
Roddick has to boast Federer as goat to justify the utter humilliation of being Toyed by Him almost all His career...of course he Will choose Roger
Its the same at every tennis club is the pusher that beats most players better then the guy would goes for his shots and sometimes misses but goes out swinging. Is winning the most important part is what shots you could pull of and how you won important too.
I very much agree with a lot of the other comments about prejudice against national origin. I think many people who quickly dismiss the idea that Djokovic’s Serbian nationality has a lot to do with negative perceptions of him, are often not aware of many of the facts. Depending on how old you are and where you grew up, many people may not remember or been aware of how bad the image and reputation of Serbia was on the world stage in the 90’s. Upon the breakup of Yugoslavia, many Serbian people lied about their origin and claimed to be Croatian to avoid being discriminated against. And in fact, until only three months ago (July 2024) Serbians STILL had restrictions on their movement within the EU.
Yes. Fed cultists are overwhelmingly vaxxed and terrible people.
Fed cultists are evil people, of course they deny reality.
Most people (especially in the West) couldn't point Serbia out on a map if you paid them-
But they can easily point out an arrogant conspiracy theorist and his always toxic fan base who's #1 response is either "CRY HARDER!!! 😂😂😂" or something else equally childish and rude. 🤷
Him being Serbian has NOTHING TO DO WITH him not being universally loved despite his wins.
@@IGuess...Probably mostly correct. Most American and Asians and South Americans could not even point out Serbia on the map let alone know its history or politics.
lol. It’s not nationality, it’s him. Get a clue. I was open to him in his early career but then really saw he was not someone I like to follow, lack of GENUINE character, and not someone I want my kids to follow. Make all the excuses you want, never will be a goat to a lot of us due to how he acts and behaves. He can win as much as he wants at the end of the day he will be forgot as someone will pass him, but Federer will be remembered always when you talk about tennis around the world.
How ridiculous would it sound if somebody said, PSG or Manchester City or United or Barcelona... Is the greatest club of all time because of the influence and the star power of their players and their entertaining game style...... Is the greatest club of all time
It'll sound nuts, because Real Madrid is number 1 by far when it comes to all numbers, the rest is all subjective and personal preference
No one questions Real Madrid being the greatest in football, the only exception people make is in tennis
That's not true at all. People declare GOATs in sports ALL the time for players who don't have the best numbers (prime example: vast majority consider Tiger Woods the GOAT, even though he doesn't have the most major titles).
I just realized there is more than an Andy Murray's carreer difference between Nole and Roger. This tells you everything you need to know.
Deep down in your heart, you know it too😂😂
This guy just made a video to convince himself of his illusions.
But it's good for him though, as he can get a good night sleep every time he's gonna listen to this video before sleep 🙏🏼😴😂
I get the feeling if you ask tennis die hards they say Novak if you ask more casual tennis followers they say roger
Facts matter over feelings!
Yes, great point.
🏳️🌈 people will say Novax
As of 2024, for me the GOAT has to be Novak, in professional sport, it's all about winning when it comes to this debate. And the fact that Novak holds every single important record in tennis makes it a no-brainer. Huge respect to Roger and the fact that he has this aura attatched to him is something great, but I see it as it is. Also, to me the second-greatest has to be Rafa since he won more slams (Including each them twice), M1000 and wins the H2H by a significant margin.
Either way, the important thing here is that I feel very lucky to have been able to watch the Big Three.
One thing for sure Rafa did not have it easy at the beginning, middle or end of his career.
The player I would pick if my life depended on it would be Djokovic because he finds a way to win... but, if I could choose how to play the game, I would still choose Federer because I like his playing style.
To make such a video, nearly completely ignoring Nadal is impressive. I really like Roger but if we reduced to two players debating over the goat. It should be Rafa and Novak. But that's just my opinion.
No it isn't. The only record Nadal has over Federer is grandslam titles.
@jamesyu5212 masters 1000? Olympic gold medal? And for a video like this.. H2H and H2H against both in GS
@@catchingdetails5378 Nadal doesn't hold the record for masters 1000.
@jamesyu5212 that's right.. But he has more masters 1000 titles than Federer. I said that the comparison should be Nadal against djokovic..
Federer impact on the world is unmatched. Federer was being cheered by fans against their own. That’s how big his impact was.
Being 6 years older than Novak and Nadal, he still maintain the lead until retirement for those that count GS. And so far Novak has yet to win a GS at 37 despite being in form.
I think a category that’s missing is all the trick in the book Novak uses when things don’t go his way. Just like he did today with his match with Fritz. Not that I think Fritz has the game to beat these guys.
I've always been partial to Novak, so I easily see him as the GOAT. I think he's had as much impact on the sport as Federer. Novak's been a vocal leader and has often been notorious topic on and off the court, this brings more attention to tennis. I love Fed and even Rafa but there really is no debate. People can have there sentimental favorites but its blasphemy to say anyone is the GOAT other than Novak!
goal post shifted only when federer lost most of his records (specially GS). even older say it is Borg or someone else. Most of tennis records are Novak's, other BS that comes along (popularity, impact on sport, finese, marketability) is on Fedex side of course. But as McEroe said: Tennis is not popularity contest.
Djokovic is the best because the numbers will be there for years , cultural impact get s lost after time , and many other things example , i found out about Rod Laver because of his GS calendar record , nothing more
il giocatore più vincente della storia è ROD LAVER!!!!
I AM a fed fan! Only one goat Mr Djokovic
Roger is the GOAT
Noles the best though
Roger's fans say most grand slams are not the true measure of GOAT...because he did not win the most grand slam titles...if he had...they would say that is the true measure...
I don't like the "moving the goal posts" argument on the GOAT debate now that Novak has officially silenced the chatter involving the numbers. Novak is the greatest and I'm 100% a fan of Federer. Everyone has their favorite and a player they idolize. If one is resorting to numbers to make an argument, then there is no argument; it's Novak. I have so much respect for Novak for what he's accomplished on and off the court and his willingness to stand firm on his beliefs even when they were unpopular and could cost him his career. I firmly believe neither Roger or Rafa would hold an unpopular opinion publicly.
thats right. so personely i like djokovic for that. but his behaviour on the court with his toilette pause in crucial moments are very bad. and we are talking about sport and no politics
Facts matter over feelings!!!
@@Solis225 so?
@@Brauzeuge1516 What are you talking about? Seeing how it doesn’t make sense. So? Right back at you. It’s not about your feelings 😭
@@Solis225 lol i tried to refer to the point, that whodefan talks about the nice things off the court. And yes it there is a point of sportmanship which also is a component for the debate. And your facts count nothing when they are not seen relatively to the time....and that is the debate. But i can imagine is diffucult to understand for u.
This is an interesting thought experiment, imagine the ages of both players were reversed. Djokovic turning pro in 1998, and Federer turning pro in 2003. How different would the numbers have been? Would Djokovic have capitalized on the head start like Federer did? It’s tough because I view Djokovic’s game as being somewhat forged by going up against the players ahead of him already. Being battled tested against the greats right out of the gate. Anyway interesting to think about
results are what matters , play gracefully or not , an untamable beast in his 20s to a strategic old superstar , hes been all that and won no matter what
The GOATS of my era were named Connors and Evert. They drew the most eyeballs.
We are not kids - we play tennis for victories and numbers of Grand Slam tittles .
Novak - 24 .
Nadal -22.
Federer -20 .
Novak Djokovic is GOAT .
Tennis is the only sport where number 2 and 3 goats are liked more than number 1 goat😂😂😂
@@crasherbasher8067 and thats exactly why Djokovic is only the best ever
For me he is even best athlete ever.
But Federer is greatest.
@@matebreskovic5880
Yh he’s not even a better athlete than nadal
More flexible okay, but can’t cover the court like rafa
@@crasherbasher8067 but best player ever statistically.
@@matebreskovic5880 for sure
Roger will always be The King.
Would like someone thoughts and opinion on the elo rating. In 2015, djokovic has the highest elo rating ever. But at Us open and wimbledon final he played against roger and won. So if he lost those 2 matches against roger, would his elo rating be the highest ever? But because he win it proves he's the best, but its a weird standard of measurement at the same time because we are using the criteria of him beating a 2015 roger to prove that he is better than 2006 roger. It's funny that whenever novak achieves something, it has roger's name baked into it. Would just be alot easier if we saw them play peak for peak at the same age.
There's another major consideration. What player is the best or most dominant on his very best day. Clay excluded cause that's Rafa. Or maybe it could actually boil down to who's the greatest on his best day ( but what surface we talking? Roger has the most tactical weapons for grass and hard but Novak could rise and conteract those weapons as he did in 2019 Wimbledon. Roger was literally an inch away from the championship with the T serve that was a tiny bit out. Probably give him bad dreams to this day.
Enough already. "Graceful" = being the GOAT? It's ludicrous. Djokovic overtook the other Big 3 members, and he did it during their prime years. And - if the Western world is willing to concede that China & India exist, Novak is the most popular player worldwide as well. Novak is the best of player of all time - and he is also the GOAT. There just isn't any doubt.
Not really Djokovic won all but 1 grandslam during Fed's 30s. Not his prime.
@@NN-zf7np So for Novak, his 30's were his prime, but for Federer not so much? Is that not a double standard? The fact is thy played eachj other plenty of times during their best years. Roger had the edge when Novak was a kid, and Novak later gained the upper hand. 27-23 head to head, which is just one of the scores of stats that make Novak the superior player lifetime.
People act as if tennis is not a competitive sport
@@markogjorgiev4912 Agreed! And "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. Rafa's forehand down the line? Absolutely beautiful in my eyes. Just like Novak's backhand down the line. But the MOST beautiful part is....... the results!
@@NN-zf7npNah, he won three or four.
I'll just paraphrase Novak and say that the beauty of this sport and this GOAT conversation is that there's no definitive answer, there are plenty of valid arguments in favor of many players and the conversation never ends, and that's good for Tennis.
No.
@@JairoRodríguez-m5d I didn't ask you anything.
Djokovic is clearly the GOAT, but I enjoy watching Federer more. Felt the same about Sampras and Agassiz - Sampras was clearly better but I like Agassiz' game better.
This story of the big three brings to mind the movie Chariots of Fire. It would make a great movie, or even documentary.
Djokovic did it in big 4 era fed was the goat he is still perfect but until djokovic did what he did. Stats are the facts 100 years from now people will show stats not feelings so based on stats they will say novak was the best if nobody wins more than him.
It’s kinda of like the Senna/ Schumacher in Formula One: yes, Lewis has all the records now, but many still think that the old greats can’t not be surpassed, because the legacy is beyond those numbers. Someone who watched Senna in his prime would be unlikely to change their minds that Senna is the best driver of all time.
Same for Roger: he drove so many people into this sport. He had all the shots in the book. He made tennis art. It’s almost unsurpassable for many people, including me. For me, Roger is always the one who plays the most amazing tennis. Period. Nothing will change my mind about it.
But as much as I am a Fed fan, I totally agree that Nole is the Greatest Tennis Player of All Time. You can’t take that away from Nole, he wants it, he worked so hard for it, he overcame those matches which Roger and Rafa would likely be defeated. He won everything. How can you not say he’s the best?
We don’t need to disapprove other players to support the one we love.
La diferencia es que senna y Schumacher no se enfrentaron nunca y tampoco son Hamilton. Son de épocas diferentes. el tenis Nova Roger y Rafa se enfrentaron en un deporte individual. Semana tras semana se enfrentaron. No hay excusa Bro. Simplemente el serbio salió vencedora no hay escusa.
Federer is the Golden Child of tennis, he can do no wrong in the eyes of fans, unfortunately
Bias is at play in the Goat conversation, people are being bias, Nadal is my fav but i have to be objective
Novak is better
Federer is an elegant combination of athleticism and grace. An eye candy, broke the records initially until nadal and djokovic came along. Federer and Fernando Gonzales are 2 of my favorite tennis players ever. But I cannot deny the dominance that djokovic has displayed over the years. I stopped following tennis between 2011 to 2015. Just got back to intermittently follow it a few years ago. And I was shocked to have found out that both nadal and djokovic broke federer's GS record. And not only that, head-to-head, djokovic leads him. Watching federer play was always a joy to me and my family, and pretty frustrating if he was playing against nadal back then, I still remember hating nadal for beating federer a lot of times that we would usually change the channel 😂. As for djokovic, watching him play is meh, like watching paint dry. However, he is this era's great in tennis, that I cannot deny.
MJ walked on air and like his nicknames, “the black cat” or “black Jesus” mystified crowds with his art form. Federer personified this artistry. Djokovic similarly to LeBron, has longevity and physically on his side. Djokovic’s ability to out hustle his youthful opponents, cover the court, and lack of perceivable weakness, have allowed him to remain dominant well into normal retirement age.
Give them both their props!
But Lebron is not Djokovic, he has yet to surpass Jordan in rings, MVPs, FMVs, defensive player of the year... In tennis it is unique. Djokovic has surpassed Federer in almost all relevant records. But he is not the favorite.
@@tadikebedeyou have valid points. Tennis doesn’t really keep individual stats the way team sports do. Maybe mine was a poor analogy. In my opinion, LeBron has passed career individual stats in a similar way to a tennis players career achievements, and MJ’s artistry, gracefulness, and worldwide popularity are more like Federer.
My main point was artistically/culturally Federer has stood uniquely positioned, and longevity/ physically Djokovic has stood uniquely positioned.
@@tadikebede I doubt Jordans legacy would be changed if Lebron had those records...
Why can't we just appreciate the fact that tennis give us the best players to witnessed in our lifetime? Let's just all enjoy the sports has to offer while we live.. any GOAT players discussion at present and in any time in any sport is irrelevant.. they are all great 💪
Human condition, taking what they have for granted. Yep incredible Djokovic/ Federer/ Nadal & Murray (he played just as well in his peak, just couldn't cross the finish line on top at the biggest stages as much) all played in roughly the same era. 2008-2012 especially, incredible time to be a tennis fan
If you're uncertain about who the GOAT is, answer this question. Imagine an alien species came to Earth, and wants to know our culture. They came to know about sports, and then tennis in particular, and ask us the best example of tennis being played. Who would you show?
I'd mostly show Federer, no doubt. Maybe a little Nadal, especially in clay. But I wouldn't bore them with Djokovic.
And this is why the aliens avoid us
Thank you for your fantastic high level content!! Your tennis channel is by far my favourite!!!
I think prime Federer beats prime Novak . I realize that isn't really the comparison but I'd rather watch someone go all out offense than happily settle into another 40 shot rally
And that’s the reason why novak will demolish
Djokovic being the most successful and complete (in terms of winning tournaments not playing style) he has the highest arguments on his sides to be called the GOAT.
Those who call Federer the goat are those who do not have the intelligence to bypass their emotions and get to the rational part of the brain. Then they try to do some mental gymnastics to say that being the best is not the same as the greatest, which is just absurd, but then we are not dealing with intelligent people. Sport is measured in results. The person with the best/greatest results is the best/greatest player. It is that simple.
That just simply isn't true. There's just soooo many factors, variables, circumstances, CONTEXT, etc., etc. to take into account. How you arrive at those numbers, how you _get_ those numbers, MATTERS. I'm sorry your black-and-white-thinking brain can't comprehend that or things such as nuance.
If only life were that simple…Joker fans love his crazy stats. Fed fans love how elegantly he plays. One of these will be beaten, but I doubt anyone will be more elegant on the court, while being effective, than Federer. Novak’s numbers are historical accomplishments, but all records get broken eventually. The GOAT of stats is always up for change, while the beauty of Roger’s game probably will not be undone.
Both are amazing, and despite this GOAT argument, hopefully we can all appreciate them, both, fully for the amazing things they bring to the table.
For an unintelligent Federer fan, you sai that very well lol
When Federer held the record for most GS that’s what being the GOAT was all about.
When Nole eclipsed that and then some, “Naaaw but Federer’s impact goes beyond the stats. Plus he’s very graceful on the court blah blah blah blah blah,” and then they say Nole is the BEST, Roger is the GREATEST.
Nole is the GOAT period. Anyone who says otherwise is just basing their conclusions off of their feelings.
Roger took the 90's style of tennis and perfected it. Novak created a new and more successful style. People love Roger because they find old school, fast-paced, shotmaking tennis more entertaining than the current baseline slugfests that make up most tournaments now
Novak plays very much like Agassi, but he retains focus longer and is more athletic than Andre
If Roger came 5 years after Nadal and Novak, he wouldn't be nearly as popular. He benefitted greatly coming at the end of another great era with Sampras and Agassi. Similar to how Alcaraz and Sinner are collecting all the Federer and Nadal fans now.
@@badmanskill1112 To be frank, Novak was never going to be a force at Wimbledon if he played in the 90s (he can't serve/volley well enough)
@@BOZ_11
The presumption that Novak would have played the way he does now and not adapt to the requirements of the 90s is juvenile. Moreover, the arguments with "what if" scenarios are themselves juvenile to begin with.
@@326gundu Everybody does everything possible to fulfil all of their serving potential, irrespective of era. Volleys are about hand/eye coordination, reflexes, reaction times and racquet-head control. You either have it or you don't. Kygrios had better volleys by age 19 than Novak in his prime, so did Monfils.
Nole is the 🚢
Yes it'a a personal conviction thing. For me, the GOAT would be the athlete that best represents tennis, an iconic figure that transcends generations before, current and after, and inspires people to be like him/her.
Good description of Novak 👍
@@326gunduof federer man,federer is the goat
Noles the best ever
As you said, Fed is the best front runner by far; and I would say the most gifted/experienced grass player by far. But the moment he failed to convert 2 championship points at 2019 Wimbledon final set, Djokovic demonstrated at THE highest stake, he can still go a tad higher than Fed. I feel for Fed though, but you got to accept that someone is better than you.
Nadal has been totally snubbed. On the week of his retirement announcement!!
couldn't the timing be any worse
Yes, that's true. But he will be remembered for a long time. Perhaps even longer than the other two. I suspect that his 14 French Opens will last longer than any other tennis record currently standing.
If I need someone to beat an alien in a tennis match for the fate of the Earth, I'm picking Novak.
If I'm showing someone the beauty, thrill, and sportsmanship of tennis, I'm showing them Roger.
I think this mountain has two peaks.
Federer only
Still preferred to watch Federer play.
How disrespectful to say Rafa is not in this debate
BAFFLES ME HOW BIASED PEOPLE CAN BE
He's not. 2/14/2/4 is great. But never winning the YEC matters. Rarely being healthy after the U.S open does too.
@@RunandLift2 Nadal is only clay king.
Nadal was never ranked Number One nearly as long as the other two, either.
@@hiwayman981 Nadal is inflation player and cant be either the best or greatest.
@@matebreskovic5880 he has won every slam multiple times against the best on that surface
What are you talking about!!!????
Don't forget Federer won 10 Grand Slams without having a coach
I really like this video you make opinions and thoughts whilst always deeply considering the opposing argument and respecting everyones thoughts.
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter. It’s all an ego contest between fans. The benefit is that it brings greater attention to the sport itself. Someday another name will come along.
Djokovic is the Goat. End of discussion.
Federer still. He’s an artist! Very graceful!
People who still haven't given the GOAT title to Novak Djokovic are delusional and narcissistic!
Harsh truth: it's generational. Sampras would never be forgotten. He was. No one even talks about him anymore. They are entertainment products. And they get the best of it, too. Imagine what the poor losers go through. Novak will remain because of the numbers. And when people forget the matches, (Yeah, cause no one remembers them after a while) stats is what counts. There, I hope I helped you and the "goat" debate. If Nole wins one more two more slams, goat until someone breaks it.
Novak is the GOAT. Federer has better marketing.
ofc the westerns don't like a guy thats not from the western world
Wrong… Federer is the GOAT as the term « GOAT » doesn’t rely on statistics but on the appreciation of talent, skills, personality and positive influence. Djoko has the best statistics in tennis, but he is certainly not the GOAT according to worldwide tennis fans.
@@robertl.6919 You know absolutely NOTHING about Djokovic. Well, he spent almost his entire tennis career trying to help tennis players get a better status. And he is known in the world for his monetary donations to other countries. Nadal and Federer didn't do that.
As a Federer fan I'm happy to concede that Novak is the most complete player of all time, winning 24 Grand Slams.
I just don't think he had as much natural talent and didn't play as beautifully as Federer.
I also think that Nadal's 14 French Open titles are as impressive as the total tally of 24.
So, comparing peaks is comparing ELO for just one year?
Was that the only yardstick used or you just didn’t pay attention enough?
Fededer is the best. Peak fed beats anyone 👍🏻
Nadal the goat twin
BEST analysis of the GOAT debate ever! Thank you for your unbiased, thorough, considerate dissection of this polarizing issue 👏👏👏👍👍👍
I know people say that titles don’t matter, but ultimately if you play great and look appealing but end up not winning that matters. Novak had to come from a country with a lack of resources and if you look at how far each have come, Federer had his parents invest tons of money into jump starting his career while Novak had to prove himself and rise from way below than Federer. Federer might have gotten me into tennis but Novak is the one that keeps me motivated to win instead of look all fancy and smooth which doesn’t get you wins. This is the Goat of tennis, not the goat of fashion and appeal people just add all of these different criteria to the goat checklist to benefit Federer. Can anybody explain to me why being better looking or getting more money and sponsorships make you more of a great tennis player? Don’t think you can.
Yeah? Tell us how wealthy Fed's family was & the number of millions his father was swimming in when Fed was a kid.
@@thesoccergod I never said his parents were rich, they were well off and invested a lot in his career, if you look at Novak he came from a country with a lot of poverty where even though he was pretty good with money in his own country he had to sacrifice more to come from a country nobody cared about. Well off in Switzerland vs well off in Serbia is vastly different. You should read my comment before saying delusional stuff.
@@ayod0011 Djokovic is from Serbia, which was a part of erstwhile Yugoslavia, a region with a *significant* tennis history; definitely more significant than Switzerland's. It's why Fed ended up being coached by an _Aussie_ named Peter Carter (who showed up in Switzerland after a failed tennis career) while Djoko was coached by Genčić, *Seles's* former coach.
Serbia had its problems, yes, but there's no need to pretend like Djokovic came from Compton. The truth is that Djoko's a lower-elite player who *lucked out big time* because of the abysmal failure of the 90s-born gen (barring Thiem on clay & hard) at Bof5 tennis.
Because there is *no way* a player whose slam split as a seeded player is 12/46 (26%) + 12/19 (63%) is the "greatest" at his sport. Winningest? Yes, he has the most titles. But put those titles (especially the slams & WTFs he won in his 30s) in context & one sees why he's the GOoAT (Greatest Opportunist of All Time) in tennis history.
I'll give him his due & say that his prime (AO11-RG16) was second only to Fed's prime (AO2004-AO2010), but that's as far as one can go without bending the truth.
@@thesoccergod No amount of cope will make 20>24, sorry.
I was desperate for Roger Federer to be the GOAT, but Novak has surpassed him. Even though i prefer Federer and Nadal, you cant deny Djokovic's record and accomplishments. The number of majors is the most important determining factor for being the GOAT. Fortunately for Djokovic he has other important records in addition to 24 slams. I have made peace with this because it's the fact.