I love PCSL 1 gun, you guys nailed the divisions and streamlined a lot of the convoluted USPSA rules. Happy to at least see USPSA has some competition, and your organization seems a lot more honest and of the same mindset of your potential future members.
I like that there is no power factor added to the score. I know a few USPSA open shooters that have relied on the major scoring in local matches to show how high they place overall. This might make the field more level.
I shot the first east coast PCSL match just a few months ago and it was a total blast. This idea of a single gun format is interesting and I can’t wait to try it!
ACP makes a-lot of sense, the 15 round limit works I think. If you go with less rounds then it may limit the number of folks shooting the division because they do not want it to be a reloading fest like single stack or production. And with the rest of the divisions having 20+ round limits the stages maybe too centered on high round counts for someone with 10 round mag limits to enjoy the stages to the same degree as the other competitors. Absolutely hate that I am going to miss this match, I live right down the road and have to head to a wedding that weekend. Keep up the good work.
15 rounds seems high for ACP. There are a lot of carry guns that only go up to 10-12 rounds. Like the ever popular p365. Granted you can buy 15 rd mags. most of the ACP type guns have 10-12 round mags that come with the gun. I think the production 10 rounds rule would work here. 15 rounds would cause issue just like the fishing vest or magnetic cardigan, it would force people to the Glock 19, p365xl or force larger carry guns to be used that wouldn't normally carry, like a full-sized sig p320, which I carry because I'm fat, but I wouldn't carry normally if I was slimmer. just my thought.
The standard round count of 21+1 offers numerous benefits to competitors. First, the inherent round count advantage that 2011 style magazines have at the 141.25mm length is negated, leveling the playing field across more handgun types. Second, competitors are no longer enticed to make extreme (and often unreliable) changes to their follower and spring setups in magazines to squeeze in extra capacity to be competitive. Third, nearly all common platforms have cheap and simple magazine extension solutions to bring standard 17rd mags up to a comfortable 21rd capacity. Some platforms even come with 21rd mags from the factory. But these solutions don’t always adhere to the arbitrary 141.25mm total length. Now that doesn’t matter - run slightly larger mags and simply load them to 21 rounds. Additionally, reloaded magazines will more reliably seat in the gun if not stuffed full to 23/24 rounds. We understand the concern over the perceived difficulty of policing the 21 round limit. Ultimately we believe that there are far more benefits to the majority of honest competitors that outweigh the small number of situations where cheating by loading more than 21 rounds will occur. ROs are not expected to count to 21 on the clock as shooters shoot the stage. These concerns will be addressed in more detail separately. Here are some notes: PCSL respects shooters and assumes their integrity first, rather than assuming malicious intent to gain an advantage. We believe in a culture of honest competition and self-policing within the community. That said, appropriate penalties and measures will definitely be taken to address any unsportsmanlike behavior and attempts to cheat when those situations arise. Unlike in USPSA production division, where many cases arise where loading to 11+1 can potentially be a huge advantage, the cases where risking the potential to be caught cheating just to go from 21 to 22 or 23 rounds are far less rewarding. Likely a shooter will need to reload once per stage anyway, so most of the time there will be zero reason to even attempt to cheat by loading another round or two in the mag past 21. In the small number of situations where there is an advantage to be gained (such as a 22 round handgun stage or similar), the ROs know before the buzzer that if the shooter doesn’t elect to reload and shoots two on every target, they will not have any make-up shots available if their mags are loaded to correct capacity. In these cases there is no reason to count on the clock. Additionally, video evidence can be submitted in suspected over-loading calls, so we have additional tools to police this issue and maintain match integrity.
Having a round count limit adds to the strategy of a stage break down. If you want more rounds go to the “open” class. Without a power factor scoring I think a lot of the open shooters are going to get a rude awaking on just how they will place in matches.
ACP needs to be actual carry pistol. Like LCP Max in .380 and Sig P365 sas I carry both of these and your current rules would exclude me. The sas has a ported barrel stock from sig. ❤😂. Lets Work on this and make it realistic & relevant to real carry guns.
I applaud you trying something new, but I see some problems here. First, there is no 10 round max capacity in your format. I live in Massachusetts which has a 10 round limit, and I'm surrounded by Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, which also have a 10 round limit. New Hampshire and Maine have no limit - YET - and Vermont has a 15 round limit for pistol and 10 for rifle. You are creating an environment that forces people to break the law if they want to be competitive. You specifically say that you didn't want to make this a reloading competition, but if you want to attract shooters you need to make them feel comfortable. I know MANY shooters that would like to try PCSL but won't because of this. Either because they are afraid of getting caught, or don't want to shell out the money for 6 more mags. USPSA has a rule that if a match is held in a state with a magazine restriction, the match director will abide by the limit for all divisions. Well, they don't, and do not enforce the rule. USPSA rule 3.3.1 for your reference. This is one way to fix this without creating a new division. You will attract more shooters for sure. And if shooters DID want to by HiCap mags they would have to travel quite a ways to find a legal state to buy them, at least if you live in Mass or the surrounding states. And if you pay attention you will see that every year another state or 2 is capping the mags at 10. I'm a forward thinker and believe that within 5 years all states will have a 10 round capacity. Then what? Other than that, I like the format. As I read this post I see that you have not responded to any of the comments. I hope that you respond to this.
Very interesting as for the division that you want to do only inside the waistband, so no fat guys, I got it, no old guys in that division, clubs that aren't insured for inside the waistband they can't shoot it, definitely just a division for a 20 and 30 somethings and really skinny people. All right You really think that's fair? You would never say only outside the waistband so I think this is a little nonsensical.
I love PCSL 1 gun, you guys nailed the divisions and streamlined a lot of the convoluted USPSA rules. Happy to at least see USPSA has some competition, and your organization seems a lot more honest and of the same mindset of your potential future members.
I like that there is no power factor added to the score. I know a few USPSA open shooters that have relied on the major scoring in local matches to show how high they place overall. This might make the field more level.
ACP div sounds fun
Professor in da House!!
yessir it does.
I shot the first east coast PCSL match just a few months ago and it was a total blast. This idea of a single gun format is interesting and I can’t wait to try it!
Cant wait for an event in Utah!
Interesting 2 entry for the price of one format!!
ACP makes a-lot of sense, the 15 round limit works I think. If you go with less rounds then it may limit the number of folks shooting the division because they do not want it to be a reloading fest like single stack or production. And with the rest of the divisions having 20+ round limits the stages maybe too centered on high round counts for someone with 10 round mag limits to enjoy the stages to the same degree as the other competitors.
Absolutely hate that I am going to miss this match, I live right down the road and have to head to a wedding that weekend. Keep up the good work.
For the Actual Carry Pistol division I believe it would help to grow the sport if minors and adult women are allowed to shoot .380’s.
15 rounds seems high for ACP. There are a lot of carry guns that only go up to 10-12 rounds. Like the ever popular p365. Granted you can buy 15 rd mags. most of the ACP type guns have 10-12 round mags that come with the gun. I think the production 10 rounds rule would work here. 15 rounds would cause issue just like the fishing vest or magnetic cardigan, it would force people to the Glock 19, p365xl or force larger carry guns to be used that wouldn't normally carry, like a full-sized sig p320, which I carry because I'm fat, but I wouldn't carry normally if I was slimmer. just my thought.
Exactly, agreed
Why did you go with a round count instead of a magazine length for Practical Optics, and Practical Irons division? Mag length is way easier to police.
The standard round count of 21+1 offers numerous benefits to competitors. First, the inherent round count advantage that 2011 style magazines have at the 141.25mm length is negated, leveling the playing field across more handgun types. Second, competitors are no longer enticed to make extreme (and often unreliable) changes to their follower and spring setups in magazines to squeeze in extra capacity to be competitive. Third, nearly all common platforms have cheap and simple magazine extension solutions to bring standard 17rd mags up to a comfortable 21rd capacity. Some platforms even come with 21rd mags from the factory. But these solutions don’t always adhere to the arbitrary 141.25mm total length. Now that doesn’t matter - run slightly larger mags and simply load them to 21 rounds. Additionally, reloaded magazines will more reliably seat in the gun if not stuffed full to 23/24 rounds.
We understand the concern over the perceived difficulty of policing the 21 round limit. Ultimately we believe that there are far more benefits to the majority of honest competitors that outweigh the small number of situations where cheating by loading more than 21 rounds will occur.
ROs are not expected to count to 21 on the clock as shooters shoot the stage. These concerns will be addressed in more detail separately. Here are some notes:
PCSL respects shooters and assumes their integrity first, rather than assuming malicious intent to gain an advantage. We believe in a culture of honest competition and self-policing within the community. That said, appropriate penalties and measures will definitely be taken to address any unsportsmanlike behavior and attempts to cheat when those situations arise.
Unlike in USPSA production division, where many cases arise where loading to 11+1 can potentially be a huge advantage, the cases where risking the potential to be caught cheating just to go from 21 to 22 or 23 rounds are far less rewarding. Likely a shooter will need to reload once per stage anyway, so most of the time there will be zero reason to even attempt to cheat by loading another round or two in the mag past 21.
In the small number of situations where there is an advantage to be gained (such as a 22 round handgun stage or similar), the ROs know before the buzzer that if the shooter doesn’t elect to reload and shoots two on every target, they will not have any make-up shots available if their mags are loaded to correct capacity. In these cases there is no reason to count on the clock.
Additionally, video evidence can be submitted in suspected over-loading calls, so we have additional tools to police this issue and maintain match integrity.
Having a round count limit adds to the strategy of a stage break down. If you want more rounds go to the “open” class. Without a power factor scoring I think a lot of the open shooters are going to get a rude awaking on just how they will place in matches.
How many rounds per stage and if ammo prices jump for political reasons have you thought about a rimfire handgun division?
ACP needs to be actual carry pistol. Like LCP Max in .380 and Sig P365 sas I carry both of these and your current rules would exclude me. The sas has a ported barrel stock from sig. ❤😂. Lets Work on this and make it realistic & relevant to real carry guns.
Make more RUclips videos
I applaud you trying something new, but I see some problems here. First, there is no 10 round max capacity in your format. I live in Massachusetts which has a 10 round limit, and I'm surrounded by Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, which also have a 10 round limit. New Hampshire and Maine have no limit - YET - and Vermont has a 15 round limit for pistol and 10 for rifle. You are creating an environment that forces people to break the law if they want to be competitive. You specifically say that you didn't want to make this a reloading competition, but if you want to attract shooters you need to make them feel comfortable. I know MANY shooters that would like to try PCSL but won't because of this. Either because they are afraid of getting caught, or don't want to shell out the money for 6 more mags. USPSA has a rule that if a match is held in a state with a magazine restriction, the match director will abide by the limit for all divisions. Well, they don't, and do not enforce the rule. USPSA rule 3.3.1 for your reference. This is one way to fix this without creating a new division. You will attract more shooters for sure. And if shooters DID want to by HiCap mags they would have to travel quite a ways to find a legal state to buy them, at least if you live in Mass or the surrounding states. And if you pay attention you will see that every year another state or 2 is capping the mags at 10. I'm a forward thinker and believe that within 5 years all states will have a 10 round capacity. Then what?
Other than that, I like the format.
As I read this post I see that you have not responded to any of the comments. I hope that you respond to this.
Very interesting as for the division that you want to do only inside the waistband, so no fat guys, I got it, no old guys in that division, clubs that aren't insured for inside the waistband they can't shoot it, definitely just a division for a 20 and 30 somethings and really skinny people. All right You really think that's fair?
You would never say only outside the waistband so I think this is a little nonsensical.