F1 Braking Technique?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- #racing #simracing #iracing #assettocorsa #granturismo #f1 #formula1 #f12022
Learn how to brake properly in a high downforce Formula 1 car!
You can apply this technique in any simulator, most arcade sims and racing games, and even in real life (if you can afford to drive a high-downforce car, I envy you).
Learned something? Like the video! And comment if you can explain why this happens!
I discovered this a while ago. It is an adaptation for high downforce cars with strong brakes. The brakes can take high pressure while the downforce is high. Engineers often say at full speed it is nearly impossible to lock up. But as the downforce quickly sheds off, you need to adjust the pressure; as you demonstrated the brakes can quickly overpower the grip of the tires.
Good explanation!
Yup, brake trailing. One of the basics of driving formula cars.
So for lower spec/downforce/brakes cars, like the GTs, you need to gentlely apply and release brake?
@@groundedgaming No on GT cars, you don't release the brakes after braking hard. You keep let's say 90% brake pressure applied until the corner. It's different than F1 cars where you brake hard and release the brakes as the downforce is disappearing.
Reason is because the cars produce a few hundred more kilograms of downforce than they weigh. Meaning at speed on the straight away the car weighs more than double what it weighs at less than a 80mph
EDIT: THIS IS NOT TRAIL BRAKING.
Trail braking involves turning into the corner. This is threshold braking and I'm analyzing how speeds affect maximum grip on a straight line because of downforce!
Technical explanation for the brake trace:
On cars that benefit heavily from downforce, like a winged open wheel car, the amount of braking capability increases with speed. At higher speeds, you can brake harder without locking, but that speed will quickly go down and you will need to decrease your braking force accordingly to prevent locking later in the braking zone.
The higher the downforce, the bigger will be the difference between the Peak Pressure and the Terminal Pressure. Some cars with extreme downforce amounts can have dramatically different High speed to Low Speed pressures, all the way to double the braking pressure at top speeds in comparison to when coming close to a full stop.
The reason is that the downforce is literally the wind pushing the car down, pressing it against the track, increasing traction. Like an air plane upside down!
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Geeze, it’s such a delicate dance one must engage in but also being aware of one’s speed and knowing how much pressure to apply and how much pressure to release. It really puts into perspective how technical f1 is and how easy those drivers make it seem, major props and respect.
I didn't even know this
Similarly, you can go 100% brake when your braking zone is in a dip. Full weight of the car pushing into the track.
Or just a little bit of braking when on the top of a crest.
I love all these little tips, and the more I think about it, the more it is basic physics and the more natural it becomes to me.
Thanks Suellio!
thx for the explanation :)
There is an added benefit to this when on turns, instead braking early and releasing it to get traction, you can gradually release as you turn into the corner.
To those who don't know:
Braking exerts a force on the tyres which can make it slip easier on corners since it can only do so much friction, same principle with why you can spin out easily when you're too early on the throttle out of a corner.
The wall is the best brake of all time.
sudden stop will kill u my boi
Latifi likes this
[Laugh in Imola 94]
you want to do this in any car with a good amount of downforce. as you slow down, you lose downforce and therefore, grip. to avoid locking up as the car slows, you decrease braking pressure to match the decreasing mechanical grip. nicely illustrated 🤙
Most cars have abs... F1 cars however do not
@@thevirus1442 most high downforce cars where you'd brake like this (lmp1/2/3, single seaters) don't have abs
@@xeuxis8892 Yes but most road cars have abs...
@@thevirus1442 and? How is that relevant… this braking technique is for high downforce cars. Why are you talking about road cars lol
Downforce reduces as the car slows, meaning less weight pushing the tyres into the road. This means that the car has less grip the slower it goes and why you release the brakes progressively. It also helps keep overall balance of the vehicle. There are many differences in the way a high downforce producing car is driven.
Nah I'll just keep my ABS on
Noob
@@jesusg853 thats not a noob, most GT drivers use ABS. Because then they dont have to worry about locking up their GT3 or GT4 car. Same goes to any other non open wheel racing category, but maybe some more are without ABS.
And plus, no ABS kind of makes you faster since you dont have to worry about locking up or running wide, so one less thing to worry about!
f1 cars don't have abs tho
@ThunderFPS and I'm no f1 driver so who cares except for the Individuals that don't use abs
ABS is slower than real man braking when real man braking is done right.
Should do this in every car on a race circuit. Brake hard early and melt off the brakes as you approach turn in, continue if trail braking - helps keep the car balanced and front end loaded.
I’d learnt this by trial and error, so it’s cool to hear the reason behind it
and what was the reason u heard?
@@mr.simulator4724look at the top comment
Thats the thing about F1 cars. You have to gradually apply just enough pressure to stop without locking up. You cant have too much because you will lock up but cant have very little because you will miss the turn completely. Its knowing the turns better and optimizing your brakes for different turns that help you gain the most time into your laps. Not every turn will have the same amount of brake pressure. So you have to really study each corner individually and eventually you can put it together to nail a perfect lap each time.
wow so fucking smart
@@CobroxYT Not sure whether your being sarcastic or not
Great demonstration. Aerodynamic downforce and additional traction or grip increases with the speed squared, so you want to follow that curve when accelerating or braking.
It`s three things: load on the tire, heat of the tire, and the rotational energy in the drivetrain. Load is the sum of the vehicle mass and aero downforce. Heat determines if a tire is too hot and soft or too cold and hard. And you store a lot of rotational energy in the drivetrain of a car.
I do this technique irl when im driving around. The challenge is to bring the car to a complete stop without the front end abruptly coming up. It's soo much harder on soft suspension 😂💯 it's a nice technique for smooth driving tho
Do you drive a car with high downforce irl?
This isn’t that
In real F1 they have what's called brake migration which moves the brake bias toward the rear as they release the pedal
What the name of the game?
@@ziadishere1552 Its called IRL
@@nesletchimaew9209 goofy
@@cyferr me? Ok
@@nesletchimaew9209 not you the guy you replied to
This and Trail braking are my 2 biggest struggles in racing games. Such a heavy footed fuck. I'm so grateful for ABS in games 😂
Peak hard release smooth, when you are full speed all that downforce is pushing the tyres and car into the ground…. As your shedding speed the car is slowly coming off the ground basically since you don’t have as much air going through your wings. So we use as much pressure as we can at the very beginning since it had the most amount of grip then we start to release off as the grip goes away. Peak, bleed, release.
Hope this helps anyone wanting to get into open wheel cars or just tips for Iracing
I zoned out with the numbers, genuinely I think it’s just a feel thing and you just adapt to what you got, the only thing I do is being the brake bias forward or back depending on the track, occasionally I can be bothered to do it per corner but even that is kinda pointless when you just get good at feeling it, I think once you get good it almost don’t matter
You’d be surprised how similar it is to a car without downforce, simply because at lower speeds the car doesn’t have enough momentum to shift the weight as far, meaning less transfer equals more front locking
It's actually quite different, without downforce you can keep the pressure the same until the car stops
@@SuellioAlmeida no you can not, for the reasons I state above. I race both high and low downforce cars irl :)
@@saltbjorn Me too, but that shouldn't count as an argument in our discussion haha
@@SuellioAlmeida I can see that but real experience is real so
From my understanding, at higher speed downforce is exponentially greater, therefore considering this alone, the wheels will lock up more easily due to the greater frictional force. However, considering that the wheel speed is higher, the wheel may lock up less easily relative to breaking at slower speeds, depending on the amount of downforce and the speed.
increase pressure technique is better for rain. try it. don't just rely on reducing the Brake pressure via setup.
cool experiment but the most important thing is: braking and turning while the car is still moving
The change in grip is because of the radical decrease of areo downforce, we can increase wind volume get more vivid feedback, the whole process, it's me edging the lockup.
It's a result of aero, the faster you go, the more downforce you have, and your tires are much harder to slip. While braking, your grip decreases, so you need to lower your brake input
Don’t forget an equally important part of braking which is downshifting fast enough to achieve engine braking.
I hear that F1 brakes are actually alot more intuitive in real life because they are set up to use g forces to press the pedal more than actual leg strength. As your deceleration decreases, it automatically reduces break pressure.
The downforce decreases as you slow down, it's proportional to square of speed. That's why you need to slowly let go of brake as you slow down.
This is going to help me in the f4s in iracing thanks.
INCREDIBLE!!! AMAZING!!! YOU DISCOVERED THE HOT WATER!!!! Congratulations, Welcome to motorsport👏🥳
I didn't know about trail braking until someone told me I was doing it already 😅
Brake hard into a straight line, then ease off as your speed decreases.
This is literally how to brake almost any race car.
People up in here writing a thesis ahaha, that is indeed just how you brake in racing in general
Not if you have abs on
What is the name of the game?
@@louisuchihatm2556 bro thinks racing is done with abs
@@maxverstacrayon8367 Some races have abs on, some doesn't. Whats your point mate?
Trail braking.
The real and professional way.
focus on weight transfer and angles
You can pretty much plant the brakes for the first phase of braking, and depending on your braking style and setup, you can hold it harder and for longer than you think. Depending on the speed of the corner and the level of grip, you may actually be able to partially rotate the car by using the brakes.
Cool to watch the car dive under load. Cool vid.
Idk but in rotax karts we slam 100 percent for like a tenth of a second and right before we lockup we back to 90 percent and slowly decrease from there
Irl they use cadence breaking. They increade brake pressure, then decrease a little when they start to lock, then increase again slower, repeat
Nice to have the brake trace to look at. Visual muscle memory training 👍🏼👍🏼
Crazy thing is if you slammed 85p brake you'd just immediately spin. Not just lockup.
Wild assumption
Im curious to figure out if there is an optimal brake trace. obviously we have to release it as it slows down. but is the brake release curve linear, nonlinear, an aggressive curve? it seemed to me the last one you did was kinda linear
It's pretty much linear, I have seen years and years of telemetry from top 0.2% drivers and they always release it linearly!
@@SuellioAlmeida Just to add, the pressure applied however is probably the biggest variable, some corners require lots of brake all at once, others not so much. It is certainly something learnt through trail and error / telemetry analysis.
Well it's entirely related to the friction between the tires and the ground, which in turn is directly proportional to the reaction force, which equates to the weight and downforce of the vehicle, which, during braking, varies in relation to aerodynamic load on the aero surfaces.
Aerodynamic load is proportional to velocity squared, so you'd expect some sort of parabolic relationship to be the most efficient. But ultimately it's affected by temperature, track condition, track material, dust/rubber/dirt, weather, and so many other factors that would make it impossible to perfectly mirror for each corner.
@@hazm4t483 trail and error haha. Perhaps a Freudian slip. 😉
Sounds like a simple differential equation that a math student (or Wolfram Alpha) should be able to solve.
on non-winged cars it's pretty much the opposite, isn't it? like, progressively increasing pressure during braking phase
4 works in karting irl too
I love how the suspension moves
Always the best tips Suellio.
Thanks a lot
It's called bleed off braking, there's an interview with Max Verstappen out there where he talks about racing in gt cars. His engineer at the time, when looking over his telemetry said you can brake harder, as he was not triggering the ABS (that race series had ABS) like every other driver in the gt series. Max replied by saying if you over brake and rely on the ABS, you don't get an optimal brake experience, if you feather the brakes so it's just on the limit of lock up, you get more effective braking. So he would apply less pressure then the other drivers and have a shorter brake distance.
Interesting story but unfortunately doesnt apply to this video.
@@GoatyHerps could you be more specific, like which part?
@@PsycoNinja619 Your entire essay about ABS that is unrelated to the brakes in a video about a car that does not use it.
@@GoatyHerps Bleed braking is a technique used for high aero dynamic cars, resulting in increased brake force being applied at high speed when the car is aerodynamically loaded, and then bleeding off the brake pedal as aero dynamic load reduces with speed. My "essay" is in relation to the function of brake pressure and and applied brake force. Just as a highly aerodynamic car would have a large effect on braking, a less loaded car with abs would be balancing the same effects.
I would love a response that included some facts or knowledge other than, cool stroy bro but it's wrong
@@PsycoNinja619 Your essay was about Max's ABS technique. It is not the same as an F1 car or the strategies in the video.
Get over yourself
Great demonstration!
This applies to any downforce car. As downforce bleeds off, braking pressure must be reduced due to decreased aero load on the car.
Braking too early and too hard. You stopped before the corner. 😅
OH NO so that's what was happening
What's the name of the game?
@@ziadishere1552 Assetto Corsa
On the f1 game i always trail brake with no abs but sometimes mess up and lock
So iracing doesn’t simulate this but in real f1 cars the brake bias is adjusted on the fly based on brake pressure. Mind you the drivers do “kick” the brake pedal and reduce the pressure during a heavy braking moment but not in same you sim racers have to. Also their pedal moves has like 2 cm maybe of travel
Interesting I pump the breaks, so that makes sense why I’m so dang slow and I always cause flat spots to develop on my tires.😂
This is effective *situationally* for low-downforce, road and track cars ‘stuff without rear and front wings’
Ight dom dolla
@@hazm4t483 no it fucking is not, the only time pumping the brakes is ever a good idea is when on sheet ice and every single time you touch the brakes you lock up. This is called cadence braking. The other use for pumping the brakes is obviously to regain pressure but is hardly faster because your fucking brakes are failing
@@saltbjorn bro has never drove a road car in his life, pipe down racer boy and get ur full licence 😂
@@saltbjorn and your race pace is 1:38 on silverstone, weak.
You can use 100% of brake and decrease, cause doing this can you stop on 50m plate.
This is something you can do in any car, not just downforce cars, it's called trailbraking
This is not trail braking, trailbraking involves turning into the corner. The video is about the loss of downforce affecting longitudinal grip (fully straight line) and braking capability going down with loss of speed
yeah you learn to do this pretty quickly but it's subconscious, at least, it was for me.
Ladies and gentlemen that's the W12 over there 🏎️
Braked like 30 meters too early
Not only f1 but racing
Brake hard then slowly decress the pressure on the brake
Think this is called trail braking?
Wait till he learns that he doesn't have to immediately do full throttle after passing apex.
Well thats how normal cars break as well. And the oke that make sense the most.
Same technique as trail braking but for a different reason
It's called trail braking. And with not locking up, that's the reason why you trail brake into a corner for better rotation meaning better exit speed out of the corner
This is different than trail braking. Trail braking involves turning into the corner. This is threshold braking and I'm analyzing how speeds affect maximum grip on a straight line because of downforce!
Yes but it emphasises the same result with controlling the weight transfer of the car so its not all on the nose where you cannot turn or you don't lock up. Same outcome
You should try 100% braking to start and then begin to overlay the throttle and you'll be able to slow even faster with no lock up bit obviously reducing the brake slightly overtime
@@v1__sherpa114 No, the reason we release the brakes slowly on a straight line is to not lock up. The reason we trail brake is to gain more rotation
If you lock up though you cannot rotate?
Vettel st hockenheim: REEEEEE
Adjust brakes during full speed practice.
This is just logic when Ur dealing with downforce
This is helpful
But that’s the reason brakes have a throttle and not a button?
How about you turn ABS on like everyone and their mom does and avoid all of this locking?
That's how they do it irl
This is interestingly new to me. Does it works on street cars? May you talk about threshold braking technique please🫶🏻
Street cars will pretty much have a fixed braking trace just like examples 1 and 2, and that will be affected by going on crests or compressions (if the car is falling, you'll have to brake less, but if the car is on a compression you can brake harder)
nice display of basics 👌
a quick physics course would have been a nice addition 😉
Breaking a bit early on them all for that corner though 😅
is that really AC, I thought it was iRacing the way the car was planted while accelerating.
i have heaps of hours on high downforce cars idk how to drive GT cars. whats the braking technique. and how do i keep my car stable? tcs is fine but esc and locking is hard to adapt to
Technique is very similar however it is sometimes effective to pump the brakes to promote cornering agility. Another common mistake is turning style, with cars such as F1-2-3 you want to be smooth and flick the wheel making use of the high downforce.
As GT cars tend to not have quite as much downforce it is better to turn earlier and slightly slower, correcting over/under steer as you move through the corner to find the best grip (you can feel the changes in the steering wheel).
Hope this helps! & keep on practicing!
It's called Trailbraking and f1 drivers use that exact technique
That's not trail braking, trail braking involves turning into the corner too
Someone needs to show this to gt7 creator about the brake balance in the game
It should start at 100% force before releasing rather than 90%
Why they tell you to roll off the brakes as speed comes down
What is this "brake" you speak about, I merely use my opponents to slow me down...
i thought this was common knowledge
Que nem ficar atrás de outro kart e baixar a cabeça kkkkkkkkk
Trailbraking
no
You are supposed to brake like this no matter what car you drive ...
You should brake and maintain the pressure if the car has no downforce at all
@@SuellioAlmeida you can stop your car by doing a degressive braking ... Just about timing ... I mean try it your self at a red light ... With the good timing and the good pressure you can have the car stopped on the light by doing degressive only
@@SuellioAlmeida this exercise was given to me by an ex pro GT3 driver who won the 24h of spa on ford super GT ... Not like I'm the guy saying stupid things out of nowhere
This is basic braking on iracing overall… if you brake like in ACC with this on off brake style you will lock with every car in iracing
You need a test for that 😂
Imagine doing that in full wet conditions
It's like braking in a normal car ...
If you are a hard trail braker that is just natural
Yeah but the trail braking on a formula one car is even more of an intense change because of the downforce so you call it natural but it’s extremely exaggerated
@@icebox829 I referred to the mechanic of going hard on the brakes early, then release it as it goes by the turn
Fantastic.. lets have 4 attempts to do anti preogressive breaking up to that corner in a race and see if our multiple attempts to save 3 feet are going to beat someone who locks up a little once. :-)
in practice we practice, in the race we race
@@SuellioAlmeida 🙂
Are you not down shifting? Surely that would help?
what do u think about how is a braking technique drivers should do if we faced a car that's twitchy on corner entry?
Do you mean that your rears lock up? If that is the case, move your brake bias to the front. Or do you just lose it on entry? To a certain extend a car that rotates itself is a good thing. You just need to predict the car and steer less. Trail braking also helps to solve this issue. Make the weight transfer of the car as smooth as possible. Tough to judge through one message where your problem lies. If your fronts lock up before your rears, brake bias most likely isn't the issue. If you use the brake pedal as a on-off button, it is an issue. Like the video says. For formula cars. Stomp on the brake and reduce braking force fairly quickly since the downforce is rapidly decreasing, therefore your car gets lighter and lock ups happen. And then just slowly fady out the brake to the apex and get on the throttle again. But it might aswell be a setup issue. ibb.co/6J6k8n6 I like this guide. Try out some stuff listed there.
that's interesting
Why not just feather it : manual abs
what version of Mario Kart is this?
Or brake bias adjustments
Pure physic
Why do professional sim racers have there brake pressure around 40kg - 65kg instead of having it around 120kg?
Mine is at 85Kg currently, and at least 3 top 0.01% drivers that I know have it at 90kg or more
@@SuellioAlmeida super quick reply, thought it would take a couple of days. No wonder why your so popular! But how stiff do you usually have the pedals. Mine are currently on the max stiffness on heusinkveld ultimate plus’s
@@christianwardally573 The stiffer the better!
some drivers have absolutely no travel. Mine is as stiff as it goes (I have the Logitech G PRO Racing Wheel and Pedals)
@@SuellioAlmeida thank you so much Mr. Almeida you are one of the best sim racers for being so involved with your community! I love that about you, please keep doing what you are doing. We all love your content!
thanks you!!!
In forza horizon 5 i tune my cars because nobody does this with them
I have to work with 100% braking and 100% throttle there’s not in between for
Me but mouse steering allows me to get so much precision out of my steering just wish I could use the gas and brake on controller and my mouse somehow
with controller steering, to combat deadzone, u can try to hold analog forward at all times, and then if u need to turn u move it towards right or left, but while keeping the analog at the edge at all times. as in the analog should always be touching the limit, constantly, so u can never release ur thumb from the steering analog
Yeah because downforce lessens with speed loss
what game is this and why it look like the car is floating