As a shop owner or mechanic how do you handle problems like this? I know each situation is different but just use this one for example. As a customer how would you like a shop to handle a situation like this? What would you expect from them? I am curious to hear what you have to say. Here is another video that is very similar in nature to this one - ruclips.net/video/18zet4UNoFY/видео.htmlsi=AFMerwgEAeO0AhyP Ohhh and more importantly both the Subaru in this video and the one in the linked video are still running to this day with no issues. Both of them with their intermittent issues have been resolved. Sometimes it pays to make an educated guess if it reasonable to make. Thanks for watching! -Eric O.
As a customer, transparency is what I’m looking for. I’d rather be told you are not sure what the problem is and work together to get to find a solution. I like the guess work you offered as “let’s try something”. Maybe the symptoms change and further clarifies the root cause. You didn’t take an “L”, just a game delay…love your work!!!
I refuse to fix any GPS problems, no I will not fix your Radar...if you need it you better go to the dealer. Same for any "Smart Features". Smarten up folks, rely on yourselves, and your friends........if their brains aren't wasted on chemicals. I will personally never own a vehicle that is not 100% autonomous and anonymous.....You bought it, but you do not own it, it owns you if you have a loan on it. Whatever. I am wasting my fingertips due to Big Tech and how they have addicted folks to the nonfact that Big Tech will fix the weather on the planet. Trump.
I repaired consumer electronics for years and ran into many intermittent problems. Customers were always happy when they got the explanation, "bring it back when it fails more often so we can pinpoint the problem or we can replace part(s) per your request that may solve the problem". Most of the time cust opted for the parts and everyone was happy. We put on the bill and had the customer sign, "PARTS REPLACED PER CUSTOMER'S REQUEST, NO WARRANTY ON THIS REPAIR"
There is a shop much like yours here in North East, Pa. I had my mother in laws 03 Taurus (15,000 original miles) to him several times - it would just quit, or not start at all. Every time we took it it worked perfectly, for more than a year. Finally it broke..... We had it towed to him, sat there for w week or so til he could get it in. He went out - of course it fired right up. We looked in identifix - most common item was the fuel pump. He really didnt want to just fire a pump at it. I had to convince him with a get out of jail free card (Prevents customer amnesia). He put in an OEM pump cause thats the way to go. It's been fine ever since. He gets all the business now! I know he sleeps well at night knowing he does it the right way! Thanks for being you Eric!
Eric: Just want to give you a shout out for the excellent videos. I know it must "getting old" to pump out these videos, but "we" really appreciate you making them for us. Thank you! Stay warm up there in the Republic of NY!🙂
@@SouthMainAuto I have been watching a long long time with admiration, thanks for the show Eric O. You have my respect 100%, but I will never attempt to copy your approach because my shop employs only me. So be it then eh?
@@SouthMainAutoI agree with dude Arthur above. He said it well and reminded me to thank you for the videos. I’ll keep watching if you keep on makin ‘em’!!
haha, my wife's the same. She comes in my office to see what I'm watching, and she says, "well... there's your problem, lady!" ....I didn't get a shirt, though.... grrrr
As a customer, I would be completely onboard with the "it's cheap and might work" approach -- but I watch your videos and learn. Most people I know would absolutely be subject to amnesia "..don't know. Said he fixed something but the engine light's still on." I think the explicit discussion that it might not be the issue and customer signature on the repair order agreeing that they understand is the best thing you can do here.
As a mechanic I have encountered many scenarios where I could likely fix a customer’s car without replacing a part. For instance maybe I judge it to be an 80% chance that cleaning and lubing something will fix it for good. I do these kinds of repairs regularly on my cars, friends and families cars. I refuse to do them on customer cars. You get a new part. Like my old service manager used to say in every shop meeting if “I’ll do this and help the guy out is running through your head then you are wrong!” Maybe sounds bad to you as a customer but the attitude comes from all the amnesiacs. Funny thing too is that amnesiacs love to yell and scream and call us crooks. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for their decisions. So there is no “we can change the part or I can try…. or…. I can’t duplicate it but the most likely….” Nope. Bring it back when it’s broke broke and I’ll slap a new part on it.
@@AlphanumericCharacters Absolutely spot on. Or, as we liked to say in my day "no good deed goes unpunished." I used to buy cheap, used wrenches and screw drivers, as well as an old hammer or two, because invariably, "customers" would whine, wheedle, yell, scream, threaten, just to borrow one of the aforementioned tools, swearing to god in heaven and on their mother's grave - and their first-born child that they'd "bring it right back." And they never did. I had a guy try to do that with my half-inch Snap-on breaker bar that cost a pretty penny, even used. After I threatened to lay it upside his head, he finally went away and quit bothering me.
As a consumer..... the owner of the car IS BLESSED TO HAVE YOU working on his car.......... your "ilk" is a friggin' unicorn for pete's sake .... on honest ... perfectionist mechanic in a world of uni-craps !
When I was a service writer we were torn between a rock and a hard place. I would often try to frame it as a "hey, we're not 100% sure if this will fix it, but all things point to this, and its a common failure point. worst case scenario, its fixed preventative" and a lot of customers appreciated the transparency. Honesty is key, even when you screw up and own up to it. Great job eric!
Speaking from the perspective of a customer, you handled it perfectly. Did the right diagnostics, came to the right options for your customer and let him/her decide. Openness, honesty, and clarity - can't ask for anything better.
Honesty, transparency, the professional insight into the problem, along with good documentation and a damn fair deal to have the work done, all sounds pretty reasonable to me. Speaking as a mechanic and a consumer.
Looking at the data while you were driving there was a time or two when the right side duty cycle went to 0 while the left stayed around 20%. That added to the right side switching off while the left stayed on when you were revving the engine before the drive began probably were glimpses of a "failing" switch that just had not yet "failed." Never mind the fact that the biggest guess on Subaru is how many fasteners will break off or strip while you are trying to disassemble it. You made the correct decision.
Hey Eric (talking like I know you) no disrespect. I’m broke and my job only pays enough to keep us together and I rely heavily on my ride. Watching your videos while I worked on my truck really pulled me though. Thank you very much!
1. I've never had a service writer from a dealer be up front and present options as you describe here. 2. The shop I go to, someone I grew up with, operates like you do. Doesn't unload the parts cannon, will present the “guess” as you did here with why. Honest and trusted shop just like yours. ❤
I really appreciate the integrity that you, and Mrs. O, put into your business. Everything you do is honest. You sort the problem from the herring, fix it correctly with care and send it out the door. I would wager that your comebacks are few.
As a consumer and electrical troubleshooter. I can tell you we appreciate the honesty and transparency. Knowing it's a shot in the dark is worth more than a good luck.
I like that, in addition to the fix, you give your thought process on "selling the job" to the customer. Your channel gives the complete overview on the industry.
our family has had a shop for over 86 years, and doing that has come back to bite us more than once, so if i can't get it to mess up i don' fix it. keep up the good work
Eric, like any other interaction with family friends, customers, patients etc. accurate communication is always the key to success. Transparency, documentation, adequate time and confirming the joint decisions are key to good customer service in any profession. From an old scholl mechanic turned doctor 50+ years ago!
That Subaru engine sound is so different ...... If I didn't know about the car, I would have assumed that the car has issues. Thanks for sharing the video!
If I were the customer, this is the perfect approach in my eyes. Be transparent - it may work, may not. But I also understand the amnesia thing. I’m not a shop owner but would also be hesitant if I were. I have a buddy at work with an 18 Malibu with the classic P0420 and he asked me what it could be. I told him without a scan tool to see the proper PIDs, who knows. He called a shop local and told them what the code was and the dude immediately said “oh the ole catalytic converter huh?”. I immediately told him, lets not go to that place just based off watching your videos for the better part of a decade. Needless to say, you help a lot of people in the world with these videos even if they don’t watch. We are all able to pass along valuable info to our colleagues! Your personality helps us normal folk identify good shop owners and the scummy ones.
@LeeBv9983 You must own that shop… Just because the code says “catalyst efficiency” doesn’t mean “replace the cat”. There are tons of things that could cause that code.
@@FoxHole345 as a master tech a p0420 or p0430 means the cats needs to be replaced but there is other issues that need to be addressed WHILE replacing the cats. lets say you have an injector that is sticking open and dumping fuel into the engine and not able to burn it all then the convertors could melt or clog up and cause the p0420 po430 code but just fixing the injector will not fix the vehicle because your convertors is still melted. so 999 times out of 1000 when a p0430 or p0420 code comes up you are going to be replacing the convertors.
As a customer, it depends. If the shop was one I had never been to before, I would be apprehensive to trust them with a guess unless it was dirt cheap. Now, if you were my mechanic that I take everything to and you had always done great work, I would totally trust your guess even if it was not dirt cheap.
I like your approach. If I were your customer I would tell you to do what you would do if it was yours. You are truly out there to help the customer and not screw them. I think in today's world that is sadly becoming harder to find. In other words you don't bite the hands that feed you. If I were a shop owner I would use the exact same approach as you did with this customer.
Educated guesses like these are required from time to time and usually pay off. You did the right thing here. No sense in wasting diagnostic time and money trying to get something to fail when its intermittent nor do people like having these intermittent problems which give them uncertainty about their vehicles and/or a problem that might pop up during inspection time for sticker renewal. So you did the right thing by documenting it and having them sign off on it. That's what we used to do when it was a case of us not being able to prove something first.
Had a Ford Taurus that threw very occasional random codes. Best answer I had was to clear the codes. No way would I have shopped the vehicle at $$$ per hour on a blind search for something that happened on full moons only, the penguin on third base, and during a Presidential election year.
@@markh.6687 One of my vehicles used to set the Check Engine light if it was idled longer than 10 minutes. I proved it was the PCM that had an internal fault but I wasn't about to spend the big dollars (at the time) on a new PCM. I drove it like that for almost 12 years until I went out one morning and the vehicle wouldn't start. The PCM finally kicked the bucket and I replaced it with a Junk Yard unit for $100. Drove it for another 6 years before scrapping the vehicle with 300K on it.
Eric, I would trust you throwing parts at it before anyone else. You have a better shot than anyone else because of the time you take to diagnose something.
As a shop owner I do this as well on occasion. I first take into account the cost of the part and installation, (such as it was here) And what kind of customer is it. You get a feel for whether or not this customer is prone to "amnesia". Lol. I think being transparent and extremely good communication in these situations is key and so far every time I have tried this it has worked out flawlessly. Thanks for the great videos!
As a customer I appreciate honesty. Just tell me what you think, what you've done, and what the plan is moving forward. This is how I approach my "customers" as well.
Back in the old days.....when a part only cost a few dollars you weren't gambling much by throwing in a new one when the symptoms seemed to indicate that it was likely the problem. But today when some things cost many hundreds or even thousands of dollars....it's irresponsible to guess when gambling that much. Good diagnosis Eric! I would bet that you have the right solution to this problem and well done.
Watching you and Ivan got me into diagnostics, was only a hobby of working for neighbors vehicles and equipment etc but also had electronics in the list of self taught hobbies but now local mechanic garages are hiring me when they are stuck.
You did what an honest man would do, what you would do if it was your own car. The customer may, or may not see it that way but you can sleep easy at night knowing you did your absolute best for them. And that’s all anyone can hope for.
Eric. I think you did the right thing. I’m blessed to have a mechanic I totally trust. He’s earned it. At this point, I just tell him to do what he thinks make sense. I wouldn’t blame him if things went wrong later because I trust him. I believe your customer is thinking along the same lines.
If every mechanic was like you Mr. O, there would never be customers with bad taste in their mouths. You are truly one of a kind and the people of Avoca PRNY are blessed to have you.
I generally don’t comment but I watch every video religiously. I want a mechanic that would do to my car what he would do if it was his car. You are a man with integrity, so if I was your customer if you told me to wait until the problem appeared I’d wait. If you said you have a gut feeling I’d say then go ahead. Great work Eric.
As a customer, I would opt for replacing. It's relatively cheap, and the car is already in the shop. Don't want to plan a new appointment and the chance is high this will fix it. As a shop owner, I would do the same as you, small easy cheap repair with high chance of success and make the customer understand what we did here and he agreed to it.
I think under the circumstances, this is a perfectly acceptable way to approach this fault. Like you said, it's cheap and a high probability and as long as the customer is on board, throw it in. Great work Eric I love this channel and with 30 plus years of experience learn new things all the time!!
Without pumping you up further, you handled this intermittent problem correctly. Being up front with the customer, passing on your experience, and giving the customer the option to repair or not, you made him a partner in the decision. Inexpensive part no labor with a high possible probability of repair......you done good!
It is always a tough call with intermittent faults that you can't reproduce, but on that car with that problem, I might have just swapped the pressure switches, givin it back to the customer until the money light came on again, then scanned it to see if the fault was now on the left bank. It's a bit of a pain because the customer has to bring it back again, but no more so than if he drove it until it was broke broke!
😂believe that customers really appreciated the honesty, transparency, and integrity shown in this approach. It’s a lot better than someone guaranteeing you that it’s this widget and then being wrong and not standing behind it. I’d happily take your advice in this approach. You are a bit of a Unicorn. It’s why I watch you.
As a customer, I would be totally on board with your suggestion after hearing the explanation. I've been in that situation with an older T&C several years ago, and the service manager did some online research to what he felt was my issue - bad thing was that it was a $1k part. He finally got someone from the factory on the phone and after some interesting discussion, I opted for what the Svc Mgr was recommending (which was to replace the part). In the end, the part was indeed the issue - even though there had only been a couple of other cases like it in the US. I appreciate it when the Mechanic or Technician is being honest and up front with me and have zero qualms with returning.
Our approach, in ideal circumstances, is to verify the complaint, identify the failed component/s (never shotgun), repair, then verify the absence of the fault. When it comes to intermittent issues like you just struck, we take a very similar approach when parts are cheap and document it very VERY well. If expensive components are suspected, we continue testing. The reasoning is an extra hour or two is nothing compared to the price of the larger components or the bad publicity of failing at our job. Always always with full transparency between us and the customer. We have found customers generally like being kept up to date on progress and findings along the way.
Honesty is the best policy for sure. Unless you have nail hole scars in your hands your not perfect. You do the best you can and are honest with the customer to avoid the parts cannon, we all have experienced. I'm not a Sub-by, fan but thanks for the tips.
For me as a consumer it would depend on the cost of the guess. If it's an hour labor and an inexpensive part I say go for it but if the guess costs over a few hundred bucks I'd probably wait for the light to come back on and find out for sure. I'm always happy with honesty.
That's not a "big, fat guess.." it's a low-cal, low-fat estimate😊. Great as always, Eric. I was stunned to hear that part of that Subaru's "recommended maintenance" was as a head gasket job!! Yikes!!
to anyone changing these sensors - you need to be super carefull tightening them down. they are tapered pipe thread and will crack the head if overtightened.
The difference between you and "Parts Shotgun" shops is your level of honesty, a forthright explanation and of course documenting such a situation, As a customer with that type of situation I would opt fpr the "let's try it" approach based upon your expertise. UNLESS the repair and part was major bucks. Then I'd go with the let's wait until it breaks approach.
Being a shop owner, I am very transparent and document the heck out it, that this is an educated guess. Yes, it might fix the issue, but I can not guarantee it. Duplicating the problem has been attempted, and yes, I would put it in with the diag fee (if it's a simple repalcement). Your approach is educated and exactly what I've done in the past. You are doing a great service to your customers and obviously have a great rapport with your clients
Yep...document...I was service writer for a heavy truck shop for 3 years...always included date and times and topics of EVERY conversation, saved a lot of headaches.
As a full time DIY, and a backup customer, i go with an educated guess over the WAG every time. Experience, knowledge, and luck make the difference. Honest options help too.
Being able to explain all the factors, like you just did to us, is what would make me comfortable with this interaction. A very short "i dunno, lets try a switch" would make me a bit uneasy...or even worse a very confident "we have to replace the switch" would make me angry if it turns out not to work. But I like to know WHY things are the way they are, and hate sales and marketing lol
I've been going to "my" mechanic for over 20 years. The guy and his crew are trustworthy, and honest - even if they are guessing. And that's why I go back!
As a consumer, I have learned to take dubious mental notes and it has worked well when revisiting an issue. Such as "Well, last time you said to monitor this or that and this is what I've found". That jogs the techs memory and we come up with a plan. Recently, I took the truck in with nothing more than a big fat guess and screenshots of the OBD readouts. We fixed the part that we guessed on and then the real part broke. The parts were related though the guess cost $800 and the one that broke for real will be 5K.
Always a great video from you!! I recently replaced this and found out. If you ever change that pressure switch. Don’t don’t don’t over tighten it. Look up the recommended tightening method. Over tight will result in a cracked head.
Eric - great video as always! Please don’t feel guilty with making educated guesses after doing your due diligence. The part is only 22 bucks and time is not cheap for you or the customer. I can’t tell you how much time and money I have wasted with a local dealer
I'm fortunate to have found an auto shop that I have a comfortable relationship with the owner and his advisor, and are reliable and fair when it comes to any needed services or repairs on my vehicle. So if during an oil change service they call and say we see your down to 4-5mm on your brake pads and will needs those and the rotors replaced soon, I don't question the recommendation and the next oil change service I'll have those taken care of.
I think you were as honest as you could be with the customer you told him that it may or may not fix the problem you gave him an option on whether they wanted to try the possibility fix or wait until it was broke and they chose to do the possibility fix so I don’t think you should feel bad about it. Just make sure that your tickets are documented and that way if anything is said in the future, you got that information down and you can bring it back up to them so they don’t have their amnesia. Good video anyway look forward to your next ones.
At the Cheevie dealership we would constantly have cars come in with codes for VVT solenoids especially the 2.4 equinox. Course the thing was 2qts low on oil and 3k miles past the oil change due. Tell them they need an oil change and then we will verify the solenoid working or not. Works fine. They come back in 3 or 4 months same code. Same problem. Low on oil and past due for oil change. Even after the piston repairs people never learn to maintain the car. Drive it till it breaks. With the car having fresh clean oil, maybe he had the same issue. Light went off after oil change? How do you know a customer is lying? His mouth is open.🤣
That oil change counter, I believe that is in place to sell new cars. Run it down to 0% oil life remaining at 8k interval. Eventually engine burns a ton of oil out of warranty, run it low and it rod knocks 😂 and then they took away the low oil level sensor 😂
If I am asked my response is 100% based on my past dealings with the shop. If they have been trustworthy in the past I trust their assessment. I trust my money, ergo, I have to trust them with it. They have earned it.
As a customer and a diy repair person, I'd say what you did is as good a way as any to isolate the problem. Since the part isn't too expensive, and it is quick and easy to replace, not much is wasted if the new part doesn't fix the problem.
what you did is what I would do. make sure your up front with the customer and treat them right and you will have no problem sleeping at night. great work.
Your approach is the best Eric like Ivans. Been 13 years since I retired from a county park garage and did not have many tools to work with. Did manage to get the old Brick 2500 scanner out of them and went with it mostly and 90% of the time it worked out ok, things were easier then and it wasn't my money if it didn't work. We got new trucks every 8 or 10 yrs. And our equipment didn't rack up alot of miles so it wasn't anything like you are faced with.
Hi Eric As a customer I like this approach when the part is relatively inexpensive because it can’t hurt and it is nice to know that now that part is new and should last a good while and possibly resolve the problem. Worth a shot to me.
We did this as you do in the Computer Shop we used to run. It's the same but different. We called it "Wait n' see" which amounted to we did what we think will solve your issue. If not you let us know and bring it back so we can "try harder". That was only once or twice a year but I think we always hit the nail on the head. I like your methods. ya.
Great Video Eric. Its all about cost versus risk. If its High probability and Low cost, Go for it! But make sure the customer accepts its in your words "a big fat guess". But if your a Dealership, "Load the parts Cannon", make the customer feel uncomfortable and responsible for breaking the car by driving it, and then when the 3rd parts cannon episode fails, send it to Mr O, he will fix it!!
As a shop owner I’ve come across something similar, I offer this service to my customers with the no guarantee that it will work, I also explain that intermittent issues are very hard to nail down and as long as they tell me what’s going on and they’re patient with me as I try and figure it out we’ll figure it out.
Concise and well thought approach, Eric! Better be transparent and say it's a guess (in your case, an educated guess, from experience), than throw parts at it, hoping it fixes the problem.
IMO you can tell a lot about a person by how they treat people who they have power over, and you can tell a lot about a mechanic by how they act when they don't know what the answer is. I'd develop a lot of trust for anyone willing to be transparent like that. However, what works for *me* and what works for the *general public* might be two different things, who knows
As a customer, I would appreciate this and say “get-er-dun.” Nothing was broke when you had the car and test drove it. So you can either wait till it’s broke again and catch it in the act, so you can diagnose it, or you can do the relatively cheap and high likelihood fix.
9:16 Yup, the selective amnesia customer is probably the same ones who will say "ever since you replaced my headlight, my engine is running terrible, making noises, the back tires are bald, and making grinding sounds now, and heater wont work" type! 🤦🏻♂️🤔🥴 If you can't replicate the intermittent issue and you know there's a known probable certain issue that could be the problem, then let the customer make that possible-fix decision with no guarantee that it solves the exact intermittent issue but most likely will be a problem in the future if not done then thats the best way - customers decision. Writen note on receipt helps protect you from the selective amnesia & 'ever since you....' potential problems! Keep being the man!👍🏻👌🏻🛠️🔩🔧 ✊🏻🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸✊🏻
I LIKE THE SHOP TO BE HONEST AS POSIBLE SO WE CAN GO BACK , I CHANGE ABOUT 6 OIL PRESSURE SWITCHES IN MY BIG TRUCK IN 22 YEARS OF DRIVING SEMI , DETROIT, CATAPILLER, CUMMINS , KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK YOU DO , BUT MSS O IS BETTER WITH THE BOW 😂, LOVE U GUYS
As a customer I would appreciate the truth. It sounds like it's not an expensive part and if the probability is over 50% that it would solve the problem, I'm willing to take the risk.
"Amnesia" as you described it is the very best reason for documenting everything, including (unfortunately), what was discussed and agreed upon. Not always but sometimes a best guess backed by published trends can result in satisfaction for everyone.
I would be perfectly fine with taking a guess on an inexpensive part that is very common problem. But I understand the "amnesia" problem. Love the videos. Thanks.
I'm not sure I've ever had a shop call me and say they aren't sure but they think it might be X. I have definitely had shops insist on an answer that I can tell is really a guess or a firing of the parts cannon, and that's when I walk away. If the shop admitted they were at an impasse, explained why, and were clear that their proposed solution was a guess or hunch, I would appreciate their candor. Sounds like you have a relationship with this customer and he trusts you, but it's still smart to document on the work order. People can be funny sometimes.
Anymore with you guys on RUclips, I have to FF until I actually see you pop the hood and then I’ll start watching, because most of the time, you really don’t miss anything,
As a shop owner or mechanic how do you handle problems like this? I know each situation is different but just use this one for example. As a customer how would you like a shop to handle a situation like this? What would you expect from them? I am curious to hear what you have to say.
Here is another video that is very similar in nature to this one - ruclips.net/video/18zet4UNoFY/видео.htmlsi=AFMerwgEAeO0AhyP
Ohhh and more importantly both the Subaru in this video and the one in the linked video are still running to this day with no issues. Both of them with their intermittent issues have been resolved. Sometimes it pays to make an educated guess if it reasonable to make.
Thanks for watching!
-Eric O.
sounds llike youre flying a B17 not a car , lmao
As a customer, transparency is what I’m looking for. I’d rather be told you are not sure what the problem is and work together to get to find a solution. I like the guess work you offered as “let’s try something”. Maybe the symptoms change and further clarifies the root cause. You didn’t take an “L”, just a game delay…love your work!!!
I refuse to fix any GPS problems, no I will not fix your Radar...if you need it you better go to the dealer. Same for any "Smart Features". Smarten up folks, rely on yourselves, and your friends........if their brains aren't wasted on chemicals. I will personally never own a vehicle that is not 100% autonomous and anonymous.....You bought it, but you do not own it, it owns you if you have a loan on it. Whatever. I am wasting my fingertips due to Big Tech and how they have addicted folks to the nonfact that Big Tech will fix the weather on the planet. Trump.
I repaired consumer electronics for years and ran into many intermittent problems. Customers were always happy when they got the explanation, "bring it back when it fails more often so we can pinpoint the problem or we can replace part(s) per your request that may solve the problem". Most of the time cust opted for the parts and everyone was happy. We put on the bill and had the customer sign, "PARTS REPLACED PER CUSTOMER'S REQUEST, NO WARRANTY ON THIS REPAIR"
Throw tools cuss up a storm and blame the owner for everything wrong. But you start blaming the engineers and manufacturers 🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣
Eric. You are honest and transparent. You would make a lousy politician!
There is a shop much like yours here in North East, Pa. I had my mother in laws 03 Taurus (15,000 original miles) to him several times - it would just quit, or not start at all. Every time we took it it worked perfectly, for more than a year. Finally it broke..... We had it towed to him, sat there for w week or so til he could get it in. He went out - of course it fired right up. We looked in identifix - most common item was the fuel pump. He really didnt want to just fire a pump at it. I had to convince him with a get out of jail free card (Prevents customer amnesia). He put in an OEM pump cause thats the way to go. It's been fine ever since. He gets all the business now! I know he sleeps well at night knowing he does it the right way! Thanks for being you Eric!
Eric: Just want to give you a shout out for the excellent videos. I know it must "getting old" to pump out these videos, but "we" really appreciate you making them for us. Thank you! Stay warm up there in the Republic of NY!🙂
Appreciate the kind words. I'll keep making them as long as folks like you keep watching!
@@SouthMainAuto I have been watching a long long time with admiration, thanks for the show Eric O. You have my respect 100%, but I will never attempt to copy your approach because my shop employs only me. So be it then eh?
@@SouthMainAutoI agree with dude Arthur above. He said it well and reminded me to thank you for the videos. I’ll keep watching if you keep on makin ‘em’!!
And yes, most of us would certainly watch yet another brake job
@@SouthMainAuto , that is great to hear and we def need to have special appearances of Mrs. O and kitty Luna! ^_^
I just got a late Christmas present. My wife got me a South Main Auto t-shirt. She knows your channel is my favorite.
She's a keeper!
haha, my wife's the same. She comes in my office to see what I'm watching, and she says, "well... there's your problem, lady!" ....I didn't get a shirt, though.... grrrr
@@TheBrookian 😆 You're a man; tell her what you want! Not that; the tee shirt!
As a customer, I would be completely onboard with the "it's cheap and might work" approach -- but I watch your videos and learn. Most people I know would absolutely be subject to amnesia "..don't know. Said he fixed something but the engine light's still on." I think the explicit discussion that it might not be the issue and customer signature on the repair order agreeing that they understand is the best thing you can do here.
As a mechanic I have encountered many scenarios where I could likely fix a customer’s car without replacing a part. For instance maybe I judge it to be an 80% chance that cleaning and lubing something will fix it for good. I do these kinds of repairs regularly on my cars, friends and families cars. I refuse to do them on customer cars. You get a new part. Like my old service manager used to say in every shop meeting if “I’ll do this and help the guy out is running through your head then you are wrong!”
Maybe sounds bad to you as a customer but the attitude comes from all the amnesiacs. Funny thing too is that amnesiacs love to yell and scream and call us crooks. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for their decisions. So there is no “we can change the part or I can try…. or…. I can’t duplicate it but the most likely….” Nope. Bring it back when it’s broke broke and I’ll slap a new part on it.
@@AlphanumericCharacters Absolutely spot on. Or, as we liked to say in my day "no good deed goes unpunished."
I used to buy cheap, used wrenches and screw drivers, as well as an old hammer or two, because invariably, "customers" would whine, wheedle, yell, scream, threaten, just to borrow one of the aforementioned tools, swearing to god in heaven and on their mother's grave - and their first-born child that they'd "bring it right back." And they never did.
I had a guy try to do that with my half-inch Snap-on breaker bar that cost a pretty penny, even used. After I threatened to lay it upside his head, he finally went away and quit bothering me.
As a consumer..... the owner of the car IS BLESSED TO HAVE YOU working on his car.......... your "ilk" is a friggin' unicorn for pete's sake .... on honest ... perfectionist mechanic in a world of uni-craps !
Avoca N.Y. is lucky for sure......
When I was a service writer we were torn between a rock and a hard place. I would often try to frame it as a "hey, we're not 100% sure if this will fix it, but all things point to this, and its a common failure point. worst case scenario, its fixed preventative" and a lot of customers appreciated the transparency. Honesty is key, even when you screw up and own up to it. Great job eric!
Speaking from the perspective of a customer, you handled it perfectly. Did the right diagnostics, came to the right options for your customer and let him/her decide. Openness, honesty, and clarity - can't ask for anything better.
Honesty, transparency, the professional insight into the problem, along with good documentation and a damn fair deal to have the work done, all sounds pretty reasonable to me. Speaking as a mechanic and a consumer.
Looking at the data while you were driving there was a time or two when the right side duty cycle went to 0 while the left stayed around 20%. That added to the right side switching off while the left stayed on when you were revving the engine before the drive began probably were glimpses of a "failing" switch that just had not yet "failed." Never mind the fact that the biggest guess on Subaru is how many fasteners will break off or strip while you are trying to disassemble it. You made the correct decision.
Hey Eric (talking like I know you) no disrespect. I’m broke and my job only pays enough to keep us together and I rely heavily on my ride. Watching your videos while I worked on my truck really pulled me though. Thank you very much!
1. I've never had a service writer from a dealer be up front and present options as you describe here.
2. The shop I go to, someone I grew up with, operates like you do. Doesn't unload the parts cannon, will present the “guess” as you did here with why. Honest and trusted shop just like yours. ❤
That's they call it the stealership...
I really appreciate the integrity that you, and Mrs. O, put into your business. Everything you do is honest. You sort the problem from the herring, fix it correctly with care and send it out the door. I would wager that your comebacks are few.
As a consumer and electrical troubleshooter. I can tell you we appreciate the honesty and transparency. Knowing it's a shot in the dark is worth more than a good luck.
I like that, in addition to the fix, you give your thought process on "selling the job" to the customer. Your channel gives the complete overview on the industry.
You handled it bang on. As a service manager myself that’s exactly how I treat my customers.
our family has had a shop for over 86 years, and doing that has come back to bite us more than once, so if i can't get it to mess up i don' fix it. keep up the good work
Eric, like any other interaction with family friends, customers, patients etc. accurate communication is always the key to success. Transparency, documentation, adequate time and confirming the joint decisions are key to good customer service in any profession. From an old scholl mechanic turned doctor 50+ years ago!
That Subaru engine sound is so different ...... If I didn't know about the car, I would have assumed that the car has issues. Thanks for sharing the video!
It's a Subaru, it's guaranteed to have issues 😂
Go listen to a Volkswagen lol
If I were the customer, this is the perfect approach in my eyes. Be transparent - it may work, may not. But I also understand the amnesia thing. I’m not a shop owner but would also be hesitant if I were.
I have a buddy at work with an 18 Malibu with the classic P0420 and he asked me what it could be. I told him without a scan tool to see the proper PIDs, who knows. He called a shop local and told them what the code was and the dude immediately said “oh the ole catalytic converter huh?”. I immediately told him, lets not go to that place just based off watching your videos for the better part of a decade.
Needless to say, you help a lot of people in the world with these videos even if they don’t watch. We are all able to pass along valuable info to our colleagues! Your personality helps us normal folk identify good shop owners and the scummy ones.
Actually, P0420 usually results in replacing the cat. Shop guy was right on.
@LeeBv9983 You must own that shop…
Just because the code says “catalyst efficiency” doesn’t mean “replace the cat”. There are tons of things that could cause that code.
@@FoxHole345 as a master tech a p0420 or p0430 means the cats needs to be replaced but there is other issues that need to be addressed WHILE replacing the cats. lets say you have an injector that is sticking open and dumping fuel into the engine and not able to burn it all then the convertors could melt or clog up and cause the p0420 po430 code but just fixing the injector will not fix the vehicle because your convertors is still melted. so 999 times out of 1000 when a p0430 or p0420 code comes up you are going to be replacing the convertors.
@@LeeBv9983 this guy doesnt know what they are talking about, i bet he wound up replacing the convertor in the end
@@FoxHole345 so did you buddy replace the cat in the end or just traded the vehicle in and let another person spend money to fix it
Hands down the best knowledgeable mechanic on RUclips by far
As a customer, it depends. If the shop was one I had never been to before, I would be apprehensive to trust them with a guess unless it was dirt cheap. Now, if you were my mechanic that I take everything to and you had always done great work, I would totally trust your guess even if it was not dirt cheap.
I like your approach. If I were your customer I would tell you to do what you would do if it was yours. You are truly out there to help the customer and not screw them. I think in today's world that is sadly becoming harder to find. In other words you don't bite the hands that feed you. If I were a shop owner I would use the exact same approach as you did with this customer.
"I don't know if you can hear me over the wheel bearings" 😆 I think I remember reading that low oil level/pressure can cause this problem.
Yup, but it looked full and that oil on the dipstick looked like brand new oil still.
Educated guesses like these are required from time to time and usually pay off. You did the right thing here. No sense in wasting diagnostic time and money trying to get something to fail when its intermittent nor do people like having these intermittent problems which give them uncertainty about their vehicles and/or a problem that might pop up during inspection time for sticker renewal. So you did the right thing by documenting it and having them sign off on it. That's what we used to do when it was a case of us not being able to prove something first.
Had a Ford Taurus that threw very occasional random codes. Best answer I had was to clear the codes. No way would I have shopped the vehicle at $$$ per hour on a blind search for something that happened on full moons only, the penguin on third base, and during a Presidential election year.
@@markh.6687 One of my vehicles used to set the Check Engine light if it was idled longer than 10 minutes. I proved it was the PCM that had an internal fault but I wasn't about to spend the big dollars (at the time) on a new PCM. I drove it like that for almost 12 years until I went out one morning and the vehicle wouldn't start. The PCM finally kicked the bucket and I replaced it with a Junk Yard unit for $100. Drove it for another 6 years before scrapping the vehicle with 300K on it.
@@CedroCron Nice diagnostics and running it until it broke properly. :)
Eric, I would trust you throwing parts at it before anyone else. You have a better shot than anyone else because of the time you take to diagnose something.
As a shop owner I do this as well on occasion. I first take into account the cost of the part and installation, (such as it was here) And what kind of customer is it. You get a feel for whether or not this customer is prone to "amnesia". Lol. I think being transparent and extremely good communication in these situations is key and so far every time I have tried this it has worked out flawlessly. Thanks for the great videos!
As a customer I appreciate honesty. Just tell me what you think, what you've done, and what the plan is moving forward. This is how I approach my "customers" as well.
Back in the old days.....when a part only cost a few dollars you weren't gambling much by throwing in a new one when the symptoms seemed to indicate that it was likely the problem. But today when some things cost many hundreds or even thousands of dollars....it's irresponsible to guess when gambling that much.
Good diagnosis Eric! I would bet that you have the right solution to this problem and well done.
Watching you and Ivan got me into diagnostics, was only a hobby of working for neighbors vehicles and equipment etc but also had electronics in the list of self taught hobbies but now local mechanic garages are hiring me when they are stuck.
You did what an honest man would do, what you would do if it was your own car. The customer may, or may not see it that way but you can sleep easy at night knowing you did your absolute best for them. And that’s all anyone can hope for.
Eric. I think you did the right thing. I’m blessed to have a mechanic I totally trust. He’s earned it. At this point, I just tell him to do what he thinks make sense. I wouldn’t blame him if things went wrong later because I trust him. I believe your customer is thinking along the same lines.
If every mechanic was like you Mr. O, there would never be customers with bad taste in their mouths. You are truly one of a kind and the people of Avoca PRNY are blessed to have you.
I generally don’t comment but I watch every video religiously. I want a mechanic that would do to my car what he would do if it was his car.
You are a man with integrity, so if I was your customer if you told me to wait until the problem appeared I’d wait. If you said you have a gut feeling I’d say then go ahead.
Great work Eric.
As a customer, I would opt for replacing. It's relatively cheap, and the car is already in the shop. Don't want to plan a new appointment and the chance is high this will fix it. As a shop owner, I would do the same as you, small easy cheap repair with high chance of success and make the customer understand what we did here and he agreed to it.
I think under the circumstances, this is a perfectly acceptable way to approach this fault. Like you said, it's cheap and a high probability and as long as the customer is on board, throw it in. Great work Eric I love this channel and with 30 plus years of experience learn new things all the time!!
Without pumping you up further, you handled this intermittent problem correctly. Being up front with the customer, passing on your experience, and giving the customer the option to repair or not, you made him a partner in the decision. Inexpensive part no labor with a high possible probability of repair......you done good!
It is always a tough call with intermittent faults that you can't reproduce, but on that car with that problem, I might have just swapped the pressure switches, givin it back to the customer until the money light came on again, then scanned it to see if the fault was now on the left bank. It's a bit of a pain because the customer has to bring it back again, but no more so than if he drove it until it was broke broke!
😂believe that customers really appreciated the honesty, transparency, and integrity shown in this approach. It’s a lot better than someone guaranteeing you that it’s this widget and then being wrong and not standing behind it. I’d happily take your advice in this approach. You are a bit of a Unicorn. It’s why I watch you.
As a customer, I would be totally on board with your suggestion after hearing the explanation. I've been in that situation with an older T&C several years ago, and the service manager did some online research to what he felt was my issue - bad thing was that it was a $1k part. He finally got someone from the factory on the phone and after some interesting discussion, I opted for what the Svc Mgr was recommending (which was to replace the part). In the end, the part was indeed the issue - even though there had only been a couple of other cases like it in the US. I appreciate it when the Mechanic or Technician is being honest and up front with me and have zero qualms with returning.
Our approach, in ideal circumstances, is to verify the complaint, identify the failed component/s (never shotgun), repair, then verify the absence of the fault. When it comes to intermittent issues like you just struck, we take a very similar approach when parts are cheap and document it very VERY well. If expensive components are suspected, we continue testing. The reasoning is an extra hour or two is nothing compared to the price of the larger components or the bad publicity of failing at our job.
Always always with full transparency between us and the customer. We have found customers generally like being kept up to date on progress and findings along the way.
This has always been my favorite channel. So happy to see you're about to hit a million subscribers. Well earned.
Honesty is the best policy for sure. Unless you have nail hole scars in your hands your not perfect. You do the best you can and are honest with the customer to avoid the parts cannon, we all have experienced. I'm not a Sub-by, fan but thanks for the tips.
For me as a consumer it would depend on the cost of the guess. If it's an hour labor and an inexpensive part I say go for it but if the guess costs over a few hundred bucks I'd probably wait for the light to come back on and find out for sure. I'm always happy with honesty.
Eric, in my opinion you provided a reasonable option to your customer, nothing in life is guaranteed. Good video
You did the right thing. Good job. The customer knew the facts and it may save him a fortune in time .
You put it on the table, and the customer agreed or desagree, clear as mud , his choice. Awesome teaching, Sir !! take care, thanks 😊
I think you handled the situation in the best way possible.....with documentation and BOTH signatures on the work order.....classy
As a customer, I would appreciate the honesty and I would say, "DOIT". It sounds like the most logical approach.
I have no problem doing this in my shop as long as it is handled the exact way you did. With complete transparency.
That's not a "big, fat guess.." it's a low-cal, low-fat estimate😊. Great as always, Eric. I was stunned to hear that part of that Subaru's "recommended maintenance" was as a head gasket job!! Yikes!!
I think that there was a recall on certain years of Subaru for head gaskets. I have an 2012 Outback and no such problems so far
I wish I had a mechanic in my area just like you.
to anyone changing these sensors - you need to be super carefull tightening them down. they are tapered pipe thread and will crack the head if overtightened.
The old "tighten it until it cracks then back off a quarter turn".
Or you can strip out the threads in the aluminum.
Eric, I have done what you did many times when I ran my shop. I just did it with established customers. GREAT VIDEO!
The difference between you and "Parts Shotgun" shops is your level of honesty, a forthright explanation and of course documenting such a situation, As a customer with that type of situation I would opt fpr the "let's try it" approach based upon your expertise. UNLESS the repair and part was major bucks. Then I'd go with the let's wait until it breaks approach.
Being a shop owner, I am very transparent and document the heck out it, that this is an educated guess. Yes, it might fix the issue, but I can not guarantee it. Duplicating the problem has been attempted, and yes, I would put it in with the diag fee (if it's a simple repalcement). Your approach is educated and exactly what I've done in the past. You are doing a great service to your customers and obviously have a great rapport with your clients
Yep...document...I was service writer for a heavy truck shop for 3 years...always included date and times and topics of EVERY conversation, saved a lot of headaches.
As a full time DIY, and a backup customer, i go with an educated guess over the WAG every time. Experience, knowledge, and luck make the difference. Honest options help too.
Being able to explain all the factors, like you just did to us, is what would make me comfortable with this interaction. A very short "i dunno, lets try a switch" would make me a bit uneasy...or even worse a very confident "we have to replace the switch" would make me angry if it turns out not to work. But I like to know WHY things are the way they are, and hate sales and marketing lol
I've been going to "my" mechanic for over 20 years. The guy and his crew are trustworthy, and honest - even if they are guessing. And that's why I go back!
As a consumer, I have learned to take dubious mental notes and it has worked well when revisiting an issue. Such as "Well, last time you said to monitor this or that and this is what I've found". That jogs the techs memory and we come up with a plan. Recently, I took the truck in with nothing more than a big fat guess and screenshots of the OBD readouts. We fixed the part that we guessed on and then the real part broke. The parts were related though the guess cost $800 and the one that broke for real will be 5K.
Always a great video from you!! I recently replaced this and found out. If you ever change that pressure switch. Don’t don’t don’t over tighten it. Look up the recommended tightening method. Over tight will result in a cracked head.
Eric - great video as always! Please don’t feel guilty with making educated guesses after doing your due diligence. The part is only 22 bucks and time is not cheap for you or the customer. I can’t tell you how much time and money I have wasted with a local dealer
I'm fortunate to have found an auto shop that I have a comfortable relationship with the owner and his advisor, and are reliable and fair when it comes to any needed services or repairs on my vehicle. So if during an oil change service they call and say we see your down to 4-5mm on your brake pads and will needs those and the rotors replaced soon, I don't question the recommendation and the next oil change service I'll have those taken care of.
Thanks again for all you do. Your my favorite mechanic on this platform.
Bloody hell Eric, that was done and dusted before I finished my Havana Club. Well done man.
I think you were as honest as you could be with the customer you told him that it may or may not fix the problem you gave him an option on whether they wanted to try the possibility fix or wait until it was broke and they chose to do the possibility fix so I don’t think you should feel bad about it. Just make sure that your tickets are documented and that way if anything is said in the future, you got that information down and you can bring it back up to them so they don’t have their amnesia. Good video anyway look forward to your next ones.
At the Cheevie dealership we would constantly have cars come in with codes for VVT solenoids especially the 2.4 equinox. Course the thing was 2qts low on oil and 3k miles past the oil change due. Tell them they need an oil change and then we will verify the solenoid working or not. Works fine. They come back in 3 or 4 months same code. Same problem. Low on oil and past due for oil change. Even after the piston repairs people never learn to maintain the car. Drive it till it breaks. With the car having fresh clean oil, maybe he had the same issue. Light went off after oil change? How do you know a customer is lying? His mouth is open.🤣
That oil change counter, I believe that is in place to sell new cars. Run it down to 0% oil life remaining at 8k interval. Eventually engine burns a ton of oil out of warranty, run it low and it rod knocks 😂 and then they took away the low oil level sensor 😂
If I am asked my response is 100% based on my past dealings with the shop. If they have been trustworthy in the past I trust their assessment. I trust my money, ergo, I have to trust them with it. They have earned it.
As a customer and a diy repair person, I'd say what you did is as good a way as any to isolate the problem. Since the part isn't too expensive, and it is quick and easy to replace, not much is wasted if the new part doesn't fix the problem.
It's always good to tell the truth. I think you did the best that was possible for the job and diagnosis.
Keep making these videos Eric! I’m a just DIYer but I’ve learned a lot from your channel. I miss your tool time videos though!
what you did is what I would do. make sure your up front with the customer and treat them right and you will have no problem sleeping at night. great work.
Your approach is the best Eric like Ivans. Been 13 years since I retired from a county park garage and did not have many tools to work with. Did manage to get the old Brick 2500 scanner out of them and went with it mostly and 90% of the time it worked out ok, things were easier then and it wasn't my money if it didn't work. We got new trucks every 8 or 10 yrs. And our equipment didn't rack up alot of miles so it wasn't anything like you are faced with.
Hi Eric
As a customer I like this approach when the part is relatively inexpensive because it can’t hurt and it is nice to know that now that part is new and should last a good while and possibly resolve the problem. Worth a shot to me.
Eric O. Blessing us with another excellent video, Thank you sir for spoiling us 👍🏻
We did this as you do in the Computer Shop we used to run. It's the same but different. We called it "Wait n' see" which amounted to we did what we think will solve your issue. If not you let us know and bring it back so we can "try harder". That was only once or twice a year but I think we always hit the nail on the head. I like your methods. ya.
Love your videos- takes my mind off of everything going on health wise with my wife , and get to laugh a little, THANK YOU 🙏
Great Video Eric. Its all about cost versus risk. If its High probability and Low cost, Go for it! But make sure the customer accepts its in your words "a big fat guess". But if your a Dealership, "Load the parts Cannon", make the customer feel uncomfortable and responsible for breaking the car by driving it, and then when the 3rd parts cannon episode fails, send it to Mr O, he will fix it!!
As a shop owner I’ve come across something similar, I offer this service to my customers with the no guarantee that it will work, I also explain that intermittent issues are very hard to nail down and as long as they tell me what’s going on and they’re patient with me as I try and figure it out we’ll figure it out.
Concise and well thought approach, Eric! Better be transparent and say it's a guess (in your case, an educated guess, from experience), than throw parts at it, hoping it fixes the problem.
IMO you can tell a lot about a person by how they treat people who they have power over, and you can tell a lot about a mechanic by how they act when they don't know what the answer is. I'd develop a lot of trust for anyone willing to be transparent like that. However, what works for *me* and what works for the *general public* might be two different things, who knows
Oh I am very transparent when "taking a guess" and letting the customer know it is just that. Def don't need it haunting me.
What a shocker of a video Eric!
As a customer, I would appreciate this and say “get-er-dun.” Nothing was broke when you had the car and test drove it. So you can either wait till it’s broke again and catch it in the act, so you can diagnose it, or you can do the relatively cheap and high likelihood fix.
9:16 Yup, the selective amnesia customer is probably the same ones who will say "ever since you replaced my headlight, my engine is running terrible, making noises, the back tires are bald, and making grinding sounds now, and heater wont work" type! 🤦🏻♂️🤔🥴
If you can't replicate the intermittent issue and you know there's a known probable certain issue that could be the problem, then let the customer make that possible-fix decision with no guarantee that it solves the exact intermittent issue but most likely will be a problem in the future if not done then thats the best way - customers decision.
Writen note on receipt helps protect you from the selective amnesia & 'ever since you....' potential problems! Keep being the man!👍🏻👌🏻🛠️🔩🔧
✊🏻🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸✊🏻
I LIKE THE SHOP TO BE HONEST AS POSIBLE SO WE CAN GO BACK , I CHANGE ABOUT 6 OIL PRESSURE SWITCHES IN MY BIG TRUCK IN 22 YEARS OF DRIVING SEMI , DETROIT, CATAPILLER, CUMMINS , KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK YOU DO , BUT MSS O IS BETTER WITH THE BOW 😂, LOVE U GUYS
As a customer I would appreciate the truth. It sounds like it's not an expensive part and if the probability is over 50% that it would solve the problem, I'm willing to take the risk.
Some times you need to play the odds and make your best call. I've been burnt and I've been successful. Always be upfront. Like you are.
"Amnesia" as you described it is the very best reason for documenting everything, including (unfortunately), what was discussed and agreed upon. Not always but sometimes a best guess backed by published trends can result in satisfaction for everyone.
I'm impressed! Those are the loudest bearings I've ever heard 😮
Complete transparency always
Great video Eric, thanks for the honesty...and nice shocker at the end🤣🤣🤣
Transparency. You said it!
Whether in your shoes or the Customer’s👍🏼
I would be perfectly fine with taking a guess on an inexpensive part that is very common problem. But I understand the "amnesia" problem. Love the videos. Thanks.
Happy Thursday, SMA!🍻
I'm not sure I've ever had a shop call me and say they aren't sure but they think it might be X. I have definitely had shops insist on an answer that I can tell is really a guess or a firing of the parts cannon, and that's when I walk away. If the shop admitted they were at an impasse, explained why, and were clear that their proposed solution was a guess or hunch, I would appreciate their candor.
Sounds like you have a relationship with this customer and he trusts you, but it's still smart to document on the work order. People can be funny sometimes.
Anymore with you guys on RUclips, I have to FF until I actually see you pop the hood and then I’ll start watching, because most of the time, you really don’t miss anything,
Nope just a bunch of mouth running 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you Eric O for your videos!
Getting closer to a million subs 😊
Still can't believe you're not already over a million imho
Had to believe Scotty has 6 million