Katana vs Sabre - Burak vs Nick
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2017
- Burak (in black) is a kenjutsu practitioner who has been training in HEMA with us for the last year or so, on and off. So for a bit of fun we gave him Black Fencer's new Katana trainer, and put him against a sabre, used by Nick (in red). The sabre represents the British military infantry sabre of the 18th and early 19th century in style, from the style of Roworth/Angelo.
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Why must bee keepers fight
a-Tron anytime homie 🤣🤣🤣🤣
One of them took the other guy's honey and he was going to eat that honey with his toast
I've seen this comment before
To settle unfinished BEES-ness
I love this comment
This should help people understand how much difference it makes to have trained extensively with a specific weapon. Some commenters overreact to videos of Nick, who is fantastic with rapier/sabre and usually wins regardless of the weapoons, dismantling a less skilled opponent trying to use a katana exactly like a longsword. It was cool seeing actual kenjitsu and I'm glad the guy was able to make a good match of it.
ITA!
He didn't use the katana exactly like a longsword - not even close. I don't remember him stabbing even once, which would be a primary attack or threat in the Langort position he was in.
alpenjon He was referring to other videos. This guy was using the Katana properly.
No he was not. He made a lot of wrong moves and had wrong stance. He is longsword practitioner whidout katana experiance.
Vatras888 quoting the description "Burak (in black) is a kenjutsu practitioner", soooooo
Dude with the katana should have released his bankai
He should have put on his hollow mask
WTF is bankai
@@jadekayak01 its the ultimate form of a zanpakto from the anime bleach which grants the user extremly powerful abilites of the spirt of their sword
@@lisawalton9091 ohh-i see-utter bullshit then.
Maybe that is why I,as a student of real swordwork,have never heard of it.(love some of those womens annime costumes though-alot of shaving required)
@@jadekayak01 i go to kenjutsu classes myself
Very interesting to see this comparison. While the sabre clearly provides greater reach, being both longer and used in a single hand, the leverage advantage of the two handed katana seemed to come into play more often than I would have expected.
the lunge with the katana seems to be devastating when timed right, but the saber has exceptional agility. i think the stance was a bit open, IMO, but it has been years since i fenced.
Use deflections or your posture will go down really quickly, also use those firecrackers dude
What a good fight! Burak and Nick control the distance very well and make very less mistake. We can see both of them using different techniques which make the effectiveness of both sword maximised! Nice fight!
Very good fight. Burak is pretty good at the Katana. Nick seemed to have a harder time this time around but he's still exceptional! Great show of skill from both!
Yep. Usually the people with the katanas use them as longswords. Because Burak knows how to use the weapon, he does much, much better.
It was completely a good duel. In my view, the Kenjutsu trainer should be calmer to have better performance.
As an Asian naturally I hope the Samurai sword got the upper hand, but it seem the western saber is slightly better. But it might also to do with who is the better swordsman.
@@juiweiyang1033 I honestly think that it isn't a matter of weapons. From what I saw the katana did a realy good performance in this match. His user also seemed skilled but sometimes you win, sometime you most. Nothing is sure during a fight.
Loved this video, both excellent fencers. As someone with a kenjutsu/kendo background beginning in HEMA it is of interest to me to see the contrasts by people at a high level of skill. Thank you for filming his match and posting it.
A beautiful video. Really shows how skilled both fighters are in their respective fields, with a suitable weapon for the technique.
I think this is a near-accurate representation of what would have happened, had these two kinds of fighters met, given no other external factors (number of people, other weapons, armour, etc.).
Very good food for thought for both groups who are extremely narrow minded and biased either for or against the Katana. It clearly shown how a skilled practicioner can indeed stand toe-to-toe with European techniques, yet dissolving athe "one-man samurai army" notion.
This really is a much better video than the other bout uploaded to the same channel. The previous video had the Katana fencer using his weapon like it's a longsword.
Anyone that have held a katana in his hands and sparred against a colleague, knows that there is no such thing as "one-man samurai army". One mistake, and you are gone. Simple as that.
What style of Kenjutsu does he practice? It's good finally see some cross training between HEMA practioners and Kenjutsuka, we can all learn more that way! It's alot better measure of Katana vs other weapons when it's being used by a practioner of it's own style as opposed to like a Longsword, there are similarities in guards and basic cuts but they fundamentally two differently designed weapons, a Katana makes a bad Longsword and a lot better Katana.
He's fencing left-handed, so that kind of narrows it down to a few schools if you think about it. Kind of something you generally don't do.
It think that guy is HEMA too.Swordstyle, stances and moves dont look like japanese swordsplay. Btw. He used katana lefthanded, that is in kenjutsu practicaly prohibited/ unnormal.
@@23Disciple Yeah, 100%. Major faux pas, you just generally don't do kenjutsu lefthanded, silly as that might sound to people who aren't into Japanese martial arts. I think I've seen some of the x-kan ninja types do this sort of thing, but classical schools will generally frown upon using a lefthanded grip.
@@gontaiyuucorrect. I am left hander and i study kenjutsu/battojutsu from Toyama imperial war academy (So it isnt koryu) for few years (Morinaga-ha).When i ask sensei or older students about this, everywhere is answer: "yes, there are styles with left handed techniques to surprise, but left hand swordsplay like sinister swordsplay (in Scotland was band of left hands swordsmen what i remember) in Japan dont exist. You must train like right hander, like others. There is no option." It was for me unnatural when i started.
@@23Disciple Did you adapt to using it right-handed, or does it still seem a little strange?
It's nice to see some sparring between HEMA and kenjutsu practitioners. Good for comparing the styles. Some of Burak's moves do seem quite different from anything I've seen in HEMA sparring videos.
I agree with Ben K.
Ben K
+Swordmaninexile
That's because you both have never seen kenjutsu. It shares some similar techniques to western fencing.
ImThinking3 He was not using the Katana properly im pretty sure that guy didnt know much Kenjuitsu at all. If he did he could use the Katanas limited guard and excellent maneuverability due to it not havign a guard that restrics movements to move much faster that guy with the saber. Also Katanas move from your center meaning you cut outwards. This makes the Katana miles less predictable than the Saber with its wide circle cuts. Also much quicker. This guy is trying to translate longsword training to the bokken and its not going well because Saber guy is beast with saber there is no time for bad technique and form when your facing that kind of speed. Speed is the essence of a sword fight doesnt matter how good your sword cuts or thrust if the enemy parries and strikes better a dagger can bring a greatsword user to his knees.
You can actually see at aroung 1:43 he finally takes advantage of just a little of the Katanas speed advantage and the Saber weilder was shocked and could do almost nothing. If this guys trained in Katana drills with a 8 pound sledge and learn to cut better. He would be fast af.
Another great video! I enjoy the variation you guys like to show. Not the same weapons against each other. Makes me wish there was some kind of HEMA group close to where I live (Atlantic Canada). I've done a lot of hand to hand martial arts and HEMA looks SOOOO much fun. I'll just have to live vicariously through your club I guess! Thanks again for the upload!
I love your guys mixed weapons videos, my buddy runs a Hema group and I mainly study ninjutsu/ninpo and we do a lot of mixed weapons fighting. He personally will fight me using many manner of weapon, ive used a gladius/scutum, nodachi, katana, and the very fun kyoketsu shoge. Im happy to see another group willing to try mixed weapons because i know too many people who train one weapon (rapier or longsword is popular) then think they can take anything on with it. I use a longsword(pretty awful with one) just to better understand how to fight one. I really believe that those who can fight with alot of weapons are the more dangerous opponents. Ive fought a few people shoge vs. Longsword who were really really good, but because theyve rarely if ever fought a chain weapon ive won a few bouts. Keep training guys, you are an inspiration.
Wow this explains so much about katana and sabre potential i love it
great match-up. nice to see two skilled opponents go up against each other in this often requested duel.
Ha, for once Nick found his equal :-)
I found that katana guy very good.
GIVE THAT MAN A YATAĞAN! 😂
Or a kilij (Adaşım güzel kılıç tokuşturmuş)
3:31 damn that was smooth
GREAT upload!! Burak may not be a samurai or Master but shows one must be more practiced, aggressive and sure of their moves/footing with the two handed Katana sword and move in swift deflect then strike. This seems a better weaponry styles comparison vid. Thanks!
klyana130 there is no samurai today
@@islamicschoolofmemestudies You don't say?
Very nice as usual, interesting matchup, what's with the change of scenery? Nice background, just wondering
P.S, do you think we could see some Longsword or Montante videos in the future?
The location is our usual Monday night training hall, but when the evenings are lighter and weather is good, we can use the space out front for extra sparring space, and a change of ground/scenery, it has been shown on a number of videos last year. Just finally got to the point we can use it again this year.
I'll see about getting some done yes. Montante is tough, as it simply cannot be used to full effect safely, and longsword, well for me (Nick) it is pretty boring. I fight it from time to time, but it's not my thing. Mike is the longsword instructor, we'll try to get some done.
I was wondering when the sabre guy would stop cut into the kenjutsu guy when he began to bring his back foot forward on an advance and he did so at around 2:10!
Switch the speed to 0,25. Only then you will really see what is going on in this interesting duel.
Thank you guys for the vids. Its nice to see 2 curved single sided swords that are slashers, instead of thursters vs slashers. Albiet the single handed sword is faster just by nature.
"There can be only one" © - Duncan MacLeod
Now THAT was quite a fight! Definitely learned a thing or two, about both weapons. What a show of skill!
Close match, wasn't it? Although Nick had the upper hand in the end, both posed quite a challenge to each other.
Pretty hard to manage the quickness of the sabre movements, as one move generally leads to the other, from defence/deflection/attack happening ALMOST at the same time! Unpredictable, fast, deadly and in the hands of a really skilled practitioner.
Thanks, Nick! I learned a lot with this video!
Same to you, Burak! You have shown quite a lot of kamae and movements from the katana, in order to fight a sabre effectively and efficiently. Quite a display of skill!
Nice way to compare two types of swords.
great video
Keep in mind that angles of sabre cuts (with one hand) are unlimited because of mobility of wrist .You can even switch hand holding sabre if it gives you an advantage at the moment.In case of katana mobility of wrists are restricted because of holding sword with two hands . Mobility of your two wrists connected by one handle of katana is limited in comparison with movements of single wrist free from any restrictions of that kind. Thus in real combat on the ground guy with sabre could cut the one with katana from many different angles and some faster attacks would be impossible to block with katana. Simply, you can move one hand much faster than two hands set up in one connected position.The construction of sabre allowed for equally precise and strong performing of all basic cuts, which is impossible to achieve in other kinds of melee weapons (= white arm or cold arm). Sometimes particular exemplars of sabre were made as "fit to hand" of user to in order to achieve perfection in cuts made from wrist. That's why sabre was so popular on battle fields and in individual duels (especially in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth).Katana is wonderful weapon and equal to other katana but not to sabre which is a superior and more versatile weapon in combat.
Un sable no es superior a una katana , y en el suelo hay muchos factores que juegan por lo que hablar a la ligera sin tomar en cuenta los diferentes escenarios es hablar de una manera deliberada .
Great fight!!! :D
One flaw that I noticed in Burak's movement, which I to this day am still struggling with, is that he retreat in a straight line and with a non-optimal guard, perhaps relying on his speed to get out of trouble and reach. What I did to try and wear that bad habit off was to encourage people to close the distance and come charging in, forcing me to adapt since moving rearwards is considerably slower and less controlled than moving forwards.
Touché. Yet I think the problem is not about going back but about being able to dart forward right after. If done properly it can be a great asset. However, I totally agree, I should stand my ground a lot more. Not only it would present me with better opportunities, but also I'd be less tired, and when I do use the distance to dodge, it'd be more effective as it'd be more likely to catch my opponent by surprise.
A diagonal retreat can present you with both a gap when the opponent closes in and removing you from the direction of the attack. Speed is a great asset though. The more you train with good instructors, like Nick, you can only improve and that paired with your speed is one lethal combination!
This was awesome. Can we see more of this. Also for the katana (be more fluent, it seems you are stiff; and also when you see the chance go for it, you created a few openings but didn't take them)
Is there a particular ryūha that Burak is trained in?
I was so confused at first. I was like, why is Burak using a sabre two-handed? Then I read the title. Derp. :(
It is essentially a two handed saber with a differentially hardened blade really.
Nice duel. I wish I could duel with you guys, but I live far away
What school of Kenjutsu does Burak study? The guards looked different to what I usually see when I watch kenjutsu videos / demonstrations / read articles about it etc. (not that I'm an expert, mind!)
Love that its in a school yard by a street. This could have been a scene from Napoleon Dynamite! The Katana has a reach advantage, but the cutlass dude showed some technique! Nice Shorts. :P
where can I get the sparring swords in the UK? I checked online and its just (Long)swords and Messer, no japanese or military swords. any tips?
what kind of swords are you using and where can I get them??
Could you do kriegsmesser vs langesmesser and buckler?
Interesting matchup! Yes we can, that sounds like fun.
This reminds me of the duel in Last Samurai. Saber vs Katana.
Very nice !!!
which style of kenjutsu?
Super interesting. I have never seen someone use a rapier with that ‘rolling of the wrist then whipping’ type motion (sorry if that was a terrible description but I don’t know the proper terminology lol) he shows. It seems to me that the rapier guy is obviously very used to fighting with that type of weapon but the guy with the katana seemed to be fighting as if he had a much longer sword if that makes sense. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell me if that little observation makes sense lol
The rotations from the wrist are called parades or moulinets depending on the system/period. They are indeed what make the sabre so agile, as well as develop power without creating many openings. The reason the katana fencer looks to be struggling with the distance at times is because of the dexterity of the sabre and all the dangers it presents. Typically one with a katana would look to control the centre line, but it's really tough with a sabre that often avoids contact and uses it's dexterity to strike at a wide variety of angles.
Katana is a beautiful and graceful Japanese weapon, but it was effective only in Japan itself where it was used as a class weapon of the samurai, that is, status weapon. The problem lies precisely in the 2-handed grip and the small length of the blade, which does not allow particularly to parry and defend, this rival weapon only for the checkers but not for the saber and European swords. If you look from the technical side, the katana is a piercing-chopping weapon like a big knife or a Russian checker.
Katana was exported and used all over East and Southeast Asia where it enjoyed popularity.
That exchange at 2:40 is so damn sweet
Nice one
I'd love to see a match sabre vs katana but with a kendo practicioner
Yea i agree with you, although kendo is a descendent of kenjutsu it would probably end up being a more interesting fight
At least, this proves that tsuba is sufficient enough protection for the user's hand if s/he knows how to use it.
It can just about do the job, though still leaves a lot of openings. In fact the most significant fact to him protecting the hand in this video is when he shifts his grip. At the start of the video he starts right hand forward, as a right hander typically would, and his hand gets hit quickly with a hard cut. They he shifts his hands to left hand forward, as a left hander would normally wield a sword.
The strike to the hand/forearm is best delivered on the outside line (his right side), and when the grip is shifted, it is much more difficult to strike that area, it is amazing quite what a different it makes as much of the target area is removed. It forced me to look for new angles of attack, when normally I can punish a two handed sword user on their lead arm constantly. I rarely fight lefties with a longsword or similar, as most lefties in our club are more into sabre and rapier, and they're always in the minority anyway. An interesting dynamic change.
I didn't even notice that. My sensei is left handed and thus it's always awkward to fight him. Though, you can always argue that will come with practice. Compare to most European sword hand guards, tsuba definitely sacrificed protection in favoring of ease of carrying and maneuverabilities. Not to mention Japanese swords mostly evolved with users wearing armor, so hand protection was never emphasized.
More practice is often the answer, but the comparative lack of left handers (around 10%), mean that lefties will almost always have more experience against right, except in a few unusual circumstances where specific training partners train a lot. That is part of the issue, but it's more than just that, the strike to the arm with sabre is much better, and much stronger made on the opponents right side, than there left. It is partly body mechanics in power, and partly that the cutting positon ends in a typical hanging guard position, which is strong, and safe against counterblows. Fighting against a left handed user with sword in two hands makes it very difficult to strike their hands on the right side of their sword.
Considering the fact that the katana saw very common use in civilian wear, it is surprising that greater hand protection did not develop for so long. The moment that swords became common in daily civilian wear in Europe (around 1500), guards quickly developed, both for civil use and in war. Plenty of forms of hand protection do not restrict movement in anyway either, the sabre in the video being a case in point. Of course Japanese swords did adopt sabre guards in the later part of the 19th century, and I think that is no surprise. It was a time of industrialisation and modernisation, a move away from isolationist ways. That is why the katana remained relatively unchanged for so long, tradition. That isn't to say that swords always improve, or always get better, just looking at change. Most weapon trends change and evolve with the context of the world around them, but if you have an isolationist culture,, it is quite different.
As a leftie, the more I fence and gain experience, the less of an issue left or right becomes because I am thinking more in terms of lines of attack or defence in tierce or quarte in the high or low lines. So, for a leftie, if I wish to fence like a rightie, I go into quarte. If a rightie wants to fence like a leftie, they go into quarte?
It doesn't quite translate though. In basic drills it works exactly like that, for thrust work especially, but some things chance substantially. Like the cutting angles for example, The best cut against the arm of a right hander, by a right hander, is cut two, but the target isn't usually there against a leftie because of the body mechanics. To simply reverse this as per your theory, you would use cut one instead, but that isn't nearly as effective and easy to land, and leaves you really exposed, as it does not transition quickly into a hanging guard.
In fact one of the best arm strikes against a leftie is cut four, but initiated on their outside line, which rarely works in reverse against a right, because as the leftit goes into hanging guard their arm becomes exposed underneath, but the right hander naturally forms a strong position against it. The opposite cut would be to use cut three here, which is very different, and leaves you hugely open to a stop thrust.
In thrust work the mirroring principle works perfectly, but in a lot of cutting actions, the mechanics change quite a lot. Another problem is when you start to consider how people counter. If a right fights on the inside of a leftie, it is incredibly dangerous, as due to the body mechanics, the left has a tendency to hook in on counters, which is often where a lot of double hits happen in left vs right, but this same huge risk does not exist on either line when both fighters use the same hand.
More and more experience is the answer, but a number of factors change that need to be considered when fighting someone left vs right.
what kenjutsu school did burak studied...katori shinto ryu or itto ryu or just kendo trained
Probably kendo, I don't think I've seen what he did when he swung the sword one-handed holding it closer to the end-cap as opposed to the disc-guard in any of the kenjutsu styles, but I've seen it a lot in kendo.
It's not the style or sword it's the fighter if you're better then your just better plan and simple.
Yes and no, you might be good but if you have a long sword you’ll have big problems when it comes to facing rapier for exemple ( I tried it, there is really not so much you can do )
No, the person has the strategy.
Video= Samurai vs British Officer
@Jacob Locklear korea didnt have a samurai. Korean high class was called Yangban. They normally considered being literate and intellectual superior than using a weapon well, so they had a tendency to look down on Warriors and soldiers. However using of bow was practiced by all the population, as it was considered as a meditation method to refresh one's mind. Thats why swords and weapons did not really develop while their bow technology improved a lot. (Talking about the last dynasty Joseon)
LMFAO! Indeed!
Never thought about it in this way, but you are damn right!
@Alexey Alexeev I'm Korean and you are right. Musa generally means professionally trained warrior.
Conclusion: an atacker gets a cut first
This is a good comparison between two different martial arts from different cultures.
I find that the skill and experience of the swordsman is not the only important thing, but choice of weapon as well.
You can't expect victory from a person who is trained only with a longsword and has a rapier against a Kenjutsu practicioner with a Katana. (Or taking the Kenjutsuka's Katana and replacing it with a Chinese Jian then expect him to beat the longsword wielding longsword practitioner.) The best weapon is the one you have experience with.
Unless you can get your hands on a gun. Lol
Nice fight
That guy with katana isnt kenjutsuka, right? Still nice and inspirational sparring.
Got the new jacket completely broken in yet?
Mostly. The neck is still a bit stiff, especially as it is taller and closer cut than my older one of the same model. Certainly its had enough sweat in most parts to soften up!
Great sparring!
I like both styles, but as a boxing practitioner, feels like kenjutsu lacks better footwork. Their attacks look really powerfull, but the foot work and strike angles look limitated.
I don't know much about kenjutsu and this almost certain already exists, but a fighting style using a wakizashi should allow a more agile footwork and a faster striking.
I wish I had someone to spar with, would probly train with my swords a lot more if I did, closest kendo or hema place and hour away though, dang
Super 👍
He needed to do the move where you shoot an energy wave from the katana more. :D
#AHF your pdf resources is a goldmine. I think I found my preferred sword-style... #SaberFencing a la British Military Style. 💎👌
I have weird to say "Huzzah! Huzzah!" like the British back in the day. 😅
I would like to address all those, who constantly say stuff like:
I would choose this weapon. This weapon is better! ... and so on.
There is many different types of Katana. Some are far longer than this (Daitou of course but even regular 1 1/2 Hand intended Katana vary greatly in length).
But a Katana of this length can easily be wielded as a one handed sword by a physically fit, trained person.
I have multiple Katana and have been training in Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu, so I know that a Katana was usually not wielded in a one handed fashion, which then again gives some advantages in terms of control while striking and leverage.
There is multiple techniques, that require changing the path of a cut or to dodge the enemy blade (with your blade in a strike confrontation - not with your body) after setting them up in order to get into a advantaged position.
This is nearly impossible with a one handed weapon.
Of course some techniques used with a Sabre are impossible or at least hard to use with a Katana.
I don't think that any particular weapon is better. That's a very lazy and oversimplifying look onto martial arts and sword fighting. Especially since the best weapon for any person heavily depends on the talents and abilities of the given person.
Such as someone with good reflexes and a quick mind may tend more to a counter based boxing style while a very physically quick and energetic person may get better results using a more in fighting based aggressive style.
It is very dependent on user, technique, fitness, strategy.
Especially since any weapon needs to employ different strategies and techniques depending on the weapon your enemy employs, since any weapon and fighting style has certain advantages and disadvantages.
Therefore in order to fight against a Saber using Katana you need to develop a tactic and a set of techniques that is specifically cut out for such an encounter.
Its the same as in any martial art.
I've been in Judo, Boxing and MMA. I'm sure anyone who was involved in multiple hand to hand or weapon based fights will tell you the same. You can't win with a standardized tactic. That's why the best MMA fighters are mostly people, who are good at all ranges or overly exceed others at a certain one and then aim to get them there using a strategy specific to the given opponent. (Kick, Boxing, Grappling)
Even in smaller fields such as boxing.
If you train to fight against classical in-fighters, who are using peek a boo for years and then suddenly meet a modern boxer, you will likely encounter massive issues. Even thought both are just using fists. (way more limited variety)
But a Katana has many applications. From draws to finger locks and grappling up to thrusts, cuts and even blunt strikes, which can be applied in so many different ways.
My main point being. Technique and Tactic are way more important and eclipse the choice of sword.
I would use the sword that I am trained to use for getting the most out of it.
You all sound like absolute beginners telling their teacher - I don't wanna learn punches or throwing techniques, because kicks are stronger anyways.
You will get your ass kicked, then reconsider.
One thing remains - one inch longer is generally one inch stronger. But repeating myself, Katana heavily vary in form, weight and length. So do western weapons.
If you want to have a heavy advantage based on your choice of weapon, use a very long Naginata, sit on a horse and wear a heavy armor. Why use a saber or a rapier.
You may be able to compare a certain sword style - such as Shinkage Ryuu against a certain european style in terms of usability and effectiveness, since that is effectively comparing quality of technique and tactic - that may yield some results.
But comparing the weapons - in the end a Katana and a Saber are both very similiar, bent long pieces of steel with a single sharp edge.
Just think up some new move instead of stupidly writing the same crap under every single sword fighting video on RUclips.
Quality of a fighter is the overriding factor in a fight, with weapon used having a proportional effect on the likely outcome, ranging from no effect at all, to a major advantage, depending on what it is facing, style, armour, terrain, etc. That much is certain, and something I have to say over, and over again.
The majority of commenters aren't haters, just a small few. As soon as people realise that most sword designs in history are actually really good, the better. Weak sword designs didn't last, for obvious reason.
Basically you are right.
But -
Its a question of scale, when you talk about difference.
Your claim is too generalized.
Yes G36 against Saber - in most situations the G36 will win.
Saber against Katana?
Rapier against Katana?
Here it's the same dimension of weapon.
Thus I hold to my argument, that the choice of weapon (Sword) only impacts the result in a minor way.
Of course heavy armor or a significantly longer reach (Naginata against Sword) is, as I said a game breaking factor.
As long as the gear is the same general type, the type does not matter much. The usage and tactical aspect are the most important.
Maybe my comment was too long.
I am partly of the same opinion. But you are oversimplifying martial arts.
You can't be a master of 5 different weapon types and 20 complete (Long, Mid, Grappling Range included) martial arts, then just switch around weapons and arts and see which one has advantages.
They all have their own advantages and disadvantages.
But they all have their own specific uses and application, which in case of a katana, takes years of hard work to even properly start. I don't know too much about western swordsmanship, but I heavily suspect its the same in that it needs a long time to learn.
From what I see none of you is very well educated in the use of a Katana, which is fine. But this is a part of why it may seem subpar in some fights.
I've seen your analytical videos. But they are still oversimplifying the functions. For example Katana against Rapier.
There is many other arguments to both sides. Katanas have many functions, which were not named. Such as diverting slices and thus direct counters, which a rapier is not able to do.
But basically, if my enemy uses a longer reach weapon and stabs, then I need to wait for the initial motion of the step in, also immediately step in while diverting the stab from my vital areas and slice.
If my enemy is not far faster than me, he won't be able to step away. You can't step in or lunge or whatever technique and dodge backwards at the same time, if your not superhuman.
So the question is, wether I am fast enough to divert the thrusts and provoke a step in.
Of course, if I keep distance, I will be severely disadvantaged with a short Katana, while my enemy would be severely disadvantaged, while we stay in very close distance.
This this is not a battle between 2 swords, this is a battle between two fighters.
If you use 2 weapons, the dimension is again uneven.
So a comparison is somewhat nonsensical. Especially since this leads away from the question of weapon quality and just shows, that its instead all about application.
Samurai would nearly always wear a Wakizashi with his Katana, even though they were normally not used together.
Please don't misunderstand. I'm in no way implying, that katanas are magical or trying to insult any of you. I can see, that you have heavily advanced skills, when you are holding a western saber.
If those little advantages and disadvantages are what your betting on, then you may as well just stand still and wait for your opponent to just die from a stroke.
Sorry for the generally long comments. But this topic cant be reduced to 3 or 4 lines.
I think you read to much into many of my comments and discussions though. Even the analytical videos are very short, and discuss a specific context. Which is why I always outline a context, any change in any one factor can change things, to varying degrees.
Neither do I bet on advantages or disadvantages, I merely point out how they can influence a particular fight, as in a fractional change in the likely outcome of the fight. I have regularly defeated sword users with just a dagger, and yet I would never say I would have an even 50/50 chance against most sword users with just a dagger.
The issue of mixed weapons and styles is hugely complex, and will continue to be covered in future videos of different kinds.
@@yannickandrle7402 Check out Destreza.
I wonder what would japanese gear will look like if the europeans fought with feudal japan
Creio que o melhor para o de katana seja o contra ataque e não o ataque em si. Tendo em vista que o rapaz de sabre tem a vantagem do corpo afastado e uma mão livre, dando mais mobilidade na defesa
Very cool
Can i ask, in an actual battle with thousands of men fighting shoulder to shoulder, what happens to the form and the fighting style?
Individual combat is different from group combat, under that regards unit cohesive, formation and discipline are into play, youll basically be playing under the same sequence of combat with everyone else, there wont be room for stylized fighting.
@@119winters5 so When big battles break down to an individual battle (one on one) does form then come into it? For instance if a phalanx sheild wall has been breached by say cavalry and infantry poor into the gap and fighting becomes one on one, does form play a part?
@@makeitsonumberone1358 it all depends on the situation, if youre out fighting in a field, and the enemy break your ranks, youd flee the battle, however if the enemy is at your territory and youre fighting for your homeland, you will fight teeth and blood. War is a chaotic enviroment, usually warfare for the main part is all about maintaining your line structure and pushing breaking the enemy forces and at times when youre surrrounded or left with no other choices you have to fight for your survival, its all about "living to fight another day" its common for us as people to not want to die and risk our life only if necessary.
In regards to individual combat, it can happen however not in the fancy youd find, for the most part people will play dirty and resort to any means necessary, such is the case in thermopylae where you had greek hoplites biting and eye gouging
@@119winters5 battle of Hastings 1066 is a good example of the Phalanx and it failing, the Normans couldnt break Harolds wall on top of the hill, so them pesky Normans pretended to flee, some of Harolds men persued leaving a masive gap in the wall, for Norman cavalry to push through, most of Harolds army fleed due to being made up of fyrd or village folk if you will, only his hosecarls stood there ground and fought, but there was so few of them left due to battling the vickings at Stamford Bridge days earlier, my point is did the housecarl fight with form in the last dying hours of the battle? Or just sure will to survive?
@@makeitsonumberone1358 a big battle never breaks into individual combat, whichever side breaks formation first is the most likely to lose and get run over
1:22 the riposte and parry were so quick that you can't even see it, you just hear it.
Dafuq haha
The katana is shorter than the sabre. Would you be much better off using it in one hand?
Then you've just got a cumbersome sabre. The strength of the katana in two hands is the leverage it has to stop and start the blade rapidly, as well as the leverage it can apply to drive through parries.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Hmmm maybe nobody knows how to use it then. I have yet to see a katana beat an opponent with a longsword or sabre on youtube.
I love you guys. Where can an American like me get this sort of equipment?
Thanks!
Blackfencer, who make the these training swords, have a US supplier, as below. For protective gear, I think there are some SPES suppliers out there. Check out the HEMA alliance as they will be able to help you with local suppliers.
southcoastswords.com/
You're the best.
What gloves is nick wearing?
Red Dragon.
Someone has been playing too much For Honor. In all seriousness though, Nice video.
Each weapon and fighting style has its advantages, but I'd think that in a fight like this with the kinds of clashes and ripostes in the video here that the katana (if it was traditional) would get pretty wanged up... They're just not made for that sort of thing, whereas the sabre would be a lot more resilient.
If the Katana fighter hadn't won after the first few minutes his sword could be in too sorry a state after a prolonged fight?
It is true that katana are prone to edge damage due to the hardness, and also being deformed as well, unlike the European blades that have some spring in them and typically return true. But that is not likely to happen quickly enough for it to be concern in a single fight, or even several fights of this kind.
That being said, there are plenty of historical examples of swords breaking very early in fights, of all kinds, including sabres and katanas.
Чет так много времени стоят друг на против друга. и ходят только вперёд и назад. Можт это стандарты какие. Я когда занимался саблей старался использовать всё пространство вокруг, да и двигался активнее.
Like the last samurai movie
This is the one fight scene The Last Samurai could have used
1:32 Nice one !
Nice fight!
The advantage of one hand is that it is faster...but it can't block a strike from a two handed one..
The advantage of a two hand is that it is stronger...but it's a bit slower...
If the single handed guy can use his left hand as a means to trap, punch and disarm at a very close range..it's an advantage
If the two handed guy knows when to let switch from a two handed to a single handed, it would be a great choice
How is he going to change to one handed if the katana is not designed for it?
@@BellumCinematicsTotalWar the katana is not designed for a single hand...but it can be used with one hand :-)
Iaijutsu and battojutsu uses katana with a single hand, theoretically speaking then...it can be used like that
@@Renzuru21 oh, true. I didnt think of it that way :)
mfw the weather is actually better in england than in france.
some kind of commentary would be nice.
I'd love to do it for all sparring videos, but finding the time is always difficult.
Academy of Historical Fencing Please do for this one: to see the two different styles (just came over from gladiatorius where he pointed out a few of the differences) broken down would be wonderful.
Сабля победит, потому что в левой руке будет пистоль.
Да они по весу должны разные быть
Neither side has a detachable pommel to end it rightly.
Is not a karate, but kendo ?
comes down to skills
Is the one-hand-swing-at-leg (@2:30) Kenjutsu approved?
It is, we call it so-ken, the spear-sword. This would sound made-up to a Kenjutsu practitioner. I belong to a rogue group, where our teachings are often pragmatic. I haven't seen it applied in any traditional Kenjutsu school, but I am yet to see a traditional school that spars. If anyone knows one please let me know, I travel a lot and I'd love to participate their sessions and learn from them if we ever cross roads.
Thank you very much! I'll make sure to look these up. And, of course, I'd appreciate the videos!
My kenjutsu dojo in Rhode Island would do a very similar one handed leg cut. We would also use that as a way to practice switching the katana from one hand to the other.
Sabre seems much better close in. Katana better in the long set up. One being 2 handed and slightly longer and the other one handed and slightly shorter a pretty expected outcome. In the real world with real swords, I would give it to the man with initiative.
Kunka vs jagernaut
AHAhah. Your comparison is worthy of praise.
Katana is so short, why is saber going for fingers?
Yes katanas are short, this is longer than average historically. Why woudn't the sabre go for the fingers? They are a great target, generally being the closest target and a means to disable an opponent. When you have a reach advantage you don't give it away by always going for deep target zones.
The two fighters seem unmatched. The guy in black is much more agile. By comparison Red looks flat-footed and slow even though his weapon appears more maneuverable.
Different styles, Japanese sword styles often do rely on quite upright stances with a lot of rapid motion from both feet. Sabre is flat footed, and relies on a strong plated stance, with lunge and slip for attack and defence. It's a very different approach.
The saber guy look more fast and have a long range than the katana
Using a one handed sword typically does extend your reach and a lot strikes with a sabre come from the wrist so tend be quicker
Не пойму, почему боец с катаной не использует силовой удар？ Ведь удар с хватом оружия двумя руками трудней будет блокировать, чем с хватом одной руки. А соревноваться по скороти изначально проигрышный вариант. Или что то не понимаю？
Возможно, потому, что у катаны особо и не заложены в технике силовые удары. Там больше похоже на подрезание, а не разрубания. По идее, оба оружия сопоставимы по скорости.
Потому как вероятнее всего будет успешно контратакован. Двуручное оружие априори менее маневренное, именно поэтому во второй половине 19 века они от этого хлама и отказались.
The Japanese style knife is so short
Polish Husars sabre is wonderfull
Quite even they were
0:24 Did I hear correctly? Burak hates sabreurs, apparently. lol
Yep :-)
Enough not to declare the hits to his hands :)
I do! And I'm expressive about it hahahaha :)
Or he was so caught in the fight, that he completely forgot to call the hit, LOL!
The guy with the katana needs to move more , specialty on the right side
Isn't Burak polish for beetroots?
I`m Polish and my wife calls me stary burak ( old beetroot )
Sabre has better reach and stretch due to being one handed. The katana technique looks quite graceful but against the Sabre its clearly an inferior weapon when the skill level of the two fighters is equal.
Now give Nick a 16th century flintlock pistol like a cavalry commander against the samurai XD
Samurai can stop a bullet ,
ruclips.net/video/Qzhs1Z8Rwnk/видео.html
@@josefstone5232 if there are two katanas, then a samurai can stop many bullets at once, ruclips.net/video/c73E3rPICdw/видео.html
@@josefstone5232 I think you forgot slicing a bullet doesn't stop it pal, it'll still go through and poke 2 holes at you. He didn't stop shit, he cut the pellet where it can't hit him. Impressive, sure, but a flintlock bullet? Fuck no.
@@AVGyerra22 you're right but why that reply after a year tho xD
@@josefstone5232 Didn't get a notification but decided to come back to this video and found this comment again
*Burak* i SO WEAK! So many MISSED oportunities to strike the heart :/
As if you could do any better
Is there any actual Historical evidence of Western Swordsman vs Japanese? The only thing I've found that is documented are two cases when Japanese pirates, "Baku" ( almost certainly not Samurai class) boarded English and a Portuguese ships, and in both cases, the Japanese were slaughtered to a man ( that's what you do with pirates because more often than not they will do that to you). Now before you say, the Euros had guns, in boarding actions prior to the 19th century, it was pretty much all melee action, other than if you use your deck swivel guns on a mass of boarders.