I think you should reorder the descriptors based on priority for different body types, like how bright spring is bright foremost and then also warm and light, whereas warm spring is warm foremost and then also bright and light. (Edit typo)
This! I love SG lines, but as a mid-sized TR I cannot wear most of them without looking frumpy. Broken lines, stiff fabrics, and high collars are awful on me.
i think this is super smart! especially because it gets away from the hidden "yin/yang" in the way they are ordered now-- it confuses me why the categories are ordered based on the logic of a different system (and in fact the one that the system is rebelling against)-- especially because i really don't like the yin/yang model!! it is harsh on bascially every gender, no matter how much we say gender isn't part of it
I think the main issue with kibbe and these systems is that they focus too much on bodies and not on how clothing and fabric look on the bodies, that's why I consider testing fabric and garment construction is a more accurate way to find the body ID (at least in these cases) than just looking at the body and drawing the shapes we see over a photo (which doesn't always work as many people can't draw and end up just ruining the picture). SG and TR may have the same body "lines" but the way the wear, let's say, soft and flowy fabrics are so different. If you look dragged down in the dress Mila Kunis is wearing, or just looks too delicate, soft or ornate you're most likely a SG who needs crisp and defined clothing that keeps it's rounded shape. That's how I found I'm a SG after all, drapey silk or chiffon dresses look like sad rags hanging on my body.
I am loving the mature, wholesome vibes of the last couple videos! You have a really balanced approach of aesthetics and fun, but also meaningful internal lessons and self accountability. A queen! ❤
I like your system of wide vs narrow and short vs long etc because it makes the viewer attentive to those details. The whole “vibe” is essence and I do feel like it can be analyzed separately. I have a mix of soft natural and gamine body lines (my mom SN my father G) and more SN/SC face. I really do believe most people could be analyzed based on their parents - on a spectrum!
I had to just go with TR lines in the end because they fit me best because my prominent features are soft , short and narrow. Sg prominent features are square, short and soft . My shoulders are very narrow, slighly sloped and round off , they dont point or look strong like you see and hear of SG examples and the shoulders are one of the most important features when layering fabric on ,they really set the base of an outfit of balance and strength. My hips are not the romantic rounded but the SG diamond, which doesnt have really any impact on what i wear , curves are curves. When it comes to clothing its about what are your prominent features and how can they be accomadated with in your wardrobe
I get the body lines system, but I remember watching Style Thoughts with Rita, where she talked about the vibes of the body types that it finally clicked for me. She has removed most of them now (probably because she made her own system), but they helped me so much with finally understanding the body types. The language around the body lines are sometimes so vague, and occasionally even against what we use those words for in our daily use, that it's really hard for most of us to figure out what's what, and vibes is something that most of us can get.
Dude you are so freaking good at this. Not just breaking this down so that it's got a low barrier to entry, but explaining your systems and really getting down to brass tacks about it. I'm so glad i found your channel when I did, i've truly learned so much.
I think I might be a soft classic, but I look best in tr so I'll keep wearing it. I have too much romantic essence for just soft classic head to toe. I think the vibe based system makes so much more sense.
This makes so much sense because I can never figure out which of those I am and look best in soft gamine or romantic styles… it’s hard to be romantic without looking too sexy- I don’t want to look sexy at all because it’s my personal religious conviction but I don’t want to look frumpy either!
I have this problem as a TR, most recs are things I definitely cannot wear to church, lol. I’m figuring it out, but it’s taking a lot of experimentation.
To me there are quite a few differences between the two, but the main thing that I see often makes or breaks it is that SG's rarely have as narrow of shoulders as TR's. TR's bones are very narrow, to the point that some people think their outlines look more straight than they'd consider most "soft" categories. If you have moderate or wider shoulders & hips, it's probably more likely that you're SG
Thank you so much. Because I was just watching your last gamine video and after years finally said to myself "fine, I dont have a body type. I fit nothing and I give up" lol. Im probably a gamine cause I have a little and youthful kind of look. Like rory gilmore or ariana grande but I dont have big or round eyes, I have super big curvy hips and a skinny boney upper body but sloped arms. No clothes look good on me. I cant wear really gamine or tr. Hhhh. I really think that color season and essence play more part in determining what you can wear than is usually discussed. Like I am a soft summer which means I dont look good in high contrast colors but it also means that I dont look good in high contrast of any other kind like wearing crazy patterns or colors that contrast eachother. So even if Im actually a gamine the clothing recommendations dont work cause my coloring demands all that cotrast be knocked down. Ugh. I have no idea of my essence either. Cause everything is just conflicting with another thing and yet Im so moderate. And yet have a big ol butt out of nowhere. I hate this science lol.
Oh my goodness, I have the exact same problem as you! Narrow, sloped shoulders and a small bony chest but these really big curvy hips. I feel like no clothes look good on me. I'm in my twenties but am regularly mistaken for a schoolgirl. I tried gamine recommendations but they don't suit my soft autumn colour season and looked wrong on my narrow shoulders. So I gave up in disgust and resigned myself to looking like a frump forever 🤷♀️
I have basically the same problem. I don’t really have a solution but I do like to wear things that are fitted at the wrist and ankle and things that make my shoulders look a bit broader. I also sometimes wear things that make my hips and butt look even bigger and I’m trying to embrace it. It might not fit the beauty standard but that doesn’t mean it’s not beautiful.
Could you explain why are romantics classed as narrow? I’m 100% a romantic and I’m basically made out of circles. I’m like a human snowman, only narrow in waist and neck 😂 I think we are very delicate because of a lack of visible bone structure but we have to accommodate for at least a medium amount of width
Kibbe is mainly about how clothing hangs of your body. Could you elaborate on how we can know in your system the width parameter? I find narrow surprising for romantics.
Romantics are rounded in frame but also delicate and not really wide, but rounded and fleshy makes people think fat which I guess makes people think wide too but I wouldn't say they have width in their frames.
Kibbe romantics might be in several body matrix types! One is narrow + short + round (remember kibbe petite is narrow + short) but also medium + short + round and even medium + medium + round
@@elliejeanroyden thank you for the clarification, medium is more in the realm where I can picture most of the romantics and I also saw some examples there on your pinterest in the body matrix :)
A soft gamine will often have longer hands and feet and forearms or very square hands and feet, romantics and theatrical romantic will always have small looking hands and feet. Of course there can be other differences. As a SG I tend to notice this.
I know SGs who have small but wide hands and feet. TRs have narrow hands and feet, but not necessarily small. Look at verified Vivien Leigh, her hands are the same size with her face. Size don't matter that much, even SDs can have small hands, while in theory they 'should' have larger hands.
I get SG and TR seem super similar and some people would be hard to pick for each type, but some are so easy and I think the styles differ for them quite a bit. As a TR I don't have small hands and feet, they are small only that they are in proportion with the rest of me, but they are long and narrow.
I was wondering about that cause romantics can wear wider styles like princess sleeves and square necklines but I drown in them as a theatrical romantic. I would associate their width more with soft classics. There's at least a slight difference in need for tapering imo. Maybe switching the priorities around like someone else mentioned?
As a Romantic talking to many Romantics on the platform we would not agree with "narrow" discriptor. Medium is more like it. The problem is if you look at 20 year olds that are slim you don't see much difference, they can borrow each other's clothes quite successfully together with soft naturals (different items across the group, rarely the same exact item). When you grow into your body that's when the differences are more pronounced and you can't get away with what you used to. Especially Romantics. As they are at the edge of the spectrum they don't have as much wiggle room as any other type that at least has some accompanying feature (like TR being narrower in bones to R).
@@pinkroses135 yes,romantics can take more width in the necklines,etc.I think that's one of the reasons why some strugle to tell if they are sn or r,specially if the person is over weight. While tr don't have that much toleration to width and can easly be overwelmed by it.
@@JR-sx3gl yeah,I notice that when people are young,they can go with within the similar subtypes style,but when they are more grown up,is easy to see that the outfit is off. For example, many fn(flamboyant natural)lady are very beautifull in they youth,I've seen a girl that have a incredible long vertical line,with that she could only be:fn,sd,d ; but she is soo beautifull that everything she wears look good on her gamine,natural, classic,looks soo good since she is young,the clothes can look trendy but when they became mature and need to dress more "adult" the affesmcts of the lines will be seen more easly.
What do you do for someone who is a mix of body types? I feel like I’m a mix of the dramatic and flamboyant natural types since my body reflects both characteristics and either style of clothing can really work well. Also, overall a strict typology for human bodies never completely sat right given my experience. I like how you bring nuance into the conversation.
Dear Ellie 🫶 have you any videos about wearing Puff sleeves? I'm soooo into late 1800-1900 styles and find that many puff-sleeves don't just suit me. (FG with G-N essence) I have some broadness in my narrow structure and I'm delicate, but some features are prominent or large (nose, shoulders, cheeks...) but hands and chest area is small and delicate. Is there body matrix scale for puffsleeves? Thank you for advance, you're the best ❤
Wide, long, & straight is usually a flamboyant natural frame & looks good with those line recommendations. Many many models are FN's, so it's not a bad frame to have! ❤
Is long the same in kibbe where you are a certain height and automatically on of the long types or is proportion included in your system? And does it make a difference if the legs are short but torso long or vice versa? Because I feel like that makes a huge difference in what looks good on a person
Proportion matters. For example, some Flamboyant Gamines can wear long lines for their short height, because they have a lot of vertical in proportion to their body size. Lisa Bonet is 5'2" & does this beautifully.
Can a flamboyant gamine be taller than 5’5”? I’m just over 5’6” and I don’t fit into FN, D, or SD. I think I most closely fit the description of a flamboyant gamine, but the restrictions make me unsure.
According to Kibbe, they can't be that tall. But maybe you find more answers in Ellie-Jean's system, more suitable answers for yourself at least. She has a pinterest board for her body matrix types, maybe that helps?
By the way, I would probably be considered straight, narrow and moderate to long (I allowed myself to consider adding a tendency for the vertical aspect. FN, D and SD also don't work for me, DC is great for me, but not a PERFECT match. I am too tall for R, TR, SG, FG, SN and SC. Some of the recommendations for DC look a bit stiff on me already. When I do go for narrow and fitted lines that aren't too soft and keep the length moderate to slightly long, it looks great. So that's what I'm going with. Oversized silhouettes drown me easily (make me look like a clothing hanger) and rounded/soft lines make me look aged and sometimes even severe. Short lines can make me look wider and shapeless, so... yah. That's how I go about it. Essence though: I definitely have classic and probably a tad bit of natural too, but I am not fully sure about it, but would make sense if I think about what hairstyles and make up styles look best on me (especially in combination with what I prefer to wear in clothes). And always remember things like this: Classics for example aren't supposed to wear athleasure for anything else but working out, but those fitted, narrow, very nicely constructed runners jackets or even hiking jackets can look incredible on me while a simple, oversized hoodie and a loose pair of sweatpants DEFINITELY make me look VERY sloppy and frumpy. So it all depends on the exact construction and the fabric of the garment, not its original purpose.
Consider whether the width is frame or flesh. Wide shoulder frame? Could be SG or even SN if its quite wide....even if you're short! That's why Scarlett Johansson is a SN & not an R. Moderate shoulder frame, but just very fleshy? Probably still R.
@@BeaLucile Oh, thank you ! I do have a lot of fleshiness independently of my weight, but i clearly have width in my frame. For exemple i love wearing padded shoulders and puffy sleeves but I does make me look weird. I looked up Scarlett Johansson and i do think i have a very similar frame, so I might be a SN ! But I'm quite short, more than the Kibbe limit it seems. I'm 159cm, or 5'3'', so maybe it's more SG ? But I think in the more vibe version of Kibbe I would be SN, because i also have a lot of natural essence (and no gamine essence)
I think you should reorder the descriptors based on priority for different body types, like how bright spring is bright foremost and then also warm and light, whereas warm spring is warm foremost and then also bright and light.
(Edit typo)
I agree!!
That’s a great idea!
This! I love SG lines, but as a mid-sized TR I cannot wear most of them without looking frumpy. Broken lines, stiff fabrics, and high collars are awful on me.
i think this is super smart! especially because it gets away from the hidden "yin/yang" in the way they are ordered now-- it confuses me why the categories are ordered based on the logic of a different system (and in fact the one that the system is rebelling against)-- especially because i really don't like the yin/yang model!! it is harsh on bascially every gender, no matter how much we say gender isn't part of it
I think the main issue with kibbe and these systems is that they focus too much on bodies and not on how clothing and fabric look on the bodies, that's why I consider testing fabric and garment construction is a more accurate way to find the body ID (at least in these cases) than just looking at the body and drawing the shapes we see over a photo (which doesn't always work as many people can't draw and end up just ruining the picture).
SG and TR may have the same body "lines" but the way the wear, let's say, soft and flowy fabrics are so different. If you look dragged down in the dress Mila Kunis is wearing, or just looks too delicate, soft or ornate you're most likely a SG who needs crisp and defined clothing that keeps it's rounded shape. That's how I found I'm a SG after all, drapey silk or chiffon dresses look like sad rags hanging on my body.
I am loving the mature, wholesome vibes of the last couple videos! You have a really balanced approach of aesthetics and fun, but also meaningful internal lessons and self accountability. A queen! ❤
I like your system of wide vs narrow and short vs long etc because it makes the viewer attentive to those details. The whole “vibe” is essence and I do feel like it can be analyzed separately.
I have a mix of soft natural and gamine body lines (my mom SN my father G) and more SN/SC face. I really do believe most people could be analyzed based on their parents - on a spectrum!
I had to just go with TR lines in the end because they fit me best because my prominent features are soft , short and narrow. Sg prominent features are square, short and soft . My shoulders are very narrow, slighly sloped and round off , they dont point or look strong like you see and hear of SG examples and the shoulders are one of the most important features when layering fabric on ,they really set the base of an outfit of balance and strength. My hips are not the romantic rounded but the SG diamond, which doesnt have really any impact on what i wear , curves are curves. When it comes to clothing its about what are your prominent features and how can they be accomadated with in your wardrobe
I get the body lines system, but I remember watching Style Thoughts with Rita, where she talked about the vibes of the body types that it finally clicked for me.
She has removed most of them now (probably because she made her own system), but they helped me so much with finally understanding the body types.
The language around the body lines are sometimes so vague, and occasionally even against what we use those words for in our daily use, that it's really hard for most of us to figure out what's what, and vibes is something that most of us can get.
Dude you are so freaking good at this. Not just breaking this down so that it's got a low barrier to entry, but explaining your systems and really getting down to brass tacks about it. I'm so glad i found your channel when I did, i've truly learned so much.
This is such a lovely comment thank you so much for saying this it’s wonderful to see that you find my videos helpful!! ♥️♥️♥️
I think I might be a soft classic, but I look best in tr so I'll keep wearing it. I have too much romantic essence for just soft classic head to toe. I think the vibe based system makes so much more sense.
This makes so much sense because I can never figure out which of those I am and look best in soft gamine or romantic styles… it’s hard to be romantic without looking too sexy- I don’t want to look sexy at all because it’s my personal religious conviction but I don’t want to look frumpy either!
I have this problem as a TR, most recs are things I definitely cannot wear to church, lol. I’m figuring it out, but it’s taking a lot of experimentation.
As someone who cannot decide between TR and SG, this resonates
To me there are quite a few differences between the two, but the main thing that I see often makes or breaks it is that SG's rarely have as narrow of shoulders as TR's. TR's bones are very narrow, to the point that some people think their outlines look more straight than they'd consider most "soft" categories. If you have moderate or wider shoulders & hips, it's probably more likely that you're SG
@@BeaLucile That's a good way to think about it.
Also I feel like gamines tend to be able to pull off edgier looks, they can look boyish whereas a TR will always look hyper feminine in any fashion.
Thank you so much. Because I was just watching your last gamine video and after years finally said to myself "fine, I dont have a body type. I fit nothing and I give up" lol.
Im probably a gamine cause I have a little and youthful kind of look. Like rory gilmore or ariana grande but I dont have big or round eyes, I have super big curvy hips and a skinny boney upper body but sloped arms. No clothes look good on me. I cant wear really gamine or tr. Hhhh.
I really think that color season and essence play more part in determining what you can wear than is usually discussed. Like I am a soft summer which means I dont look good in high contrast colors but it also means that I dont look good in high contrast of any other kind like wearing crazy patterns or colors that contrast eachother. So even if Im actually a gamine the clothing recommendations dont work cause my coloring demands all that cotrast be knocked down. Ugh. I have no idea of my essence either. Cause everything is just conflicting with another thing and yet Im so moderate. And yet have a big ol butt out of nowhere. I hate this science lol.
Oh my goodness, I have the exact same problem as you! Narrow, sloped shoulders and a small bony chest but these really big curvy hips. I feel like no clothes look good on me. I'm in my twenties but am regularly mistaken for a schoolgirl. I tried gamine recommendations but they don't suit my soft autumn colour season and looked wrong on my narrow shoulders.
So I gave up in disgust and resigned myself to looking like a frump forever 🤷♀️
I have basically the same problem. I don’t really have a solution but I do like to wear things that are fitted at the wrist and ankle and things that make my shoulders look a bit broader. I also sometimes wear things that make my hips and butt look even bigger and I’m trying to embrace it. It might not fit the beauty standard but that doesn’t mean it’s not beautiful.
Could you explain why are romantics classed as narrow? I’m 100% a romantic and I’m basically made out of circles. I’m like a human snowman, only narrow in waist and neck 😂 I think we are very delicate because of a lack of visible bone structure but we have to accommodate for at least a medium amount of width
R can definitely be medium width!
Yeah, romantics aren't that narrow, that's why is more easy to confuse Sn with R than R with Tr,I would say medium in width.
Also I love and respect u. And i think classics are so VITAL AND ESSENTIAL on planet earth where would we be without you ❤❤❤❤
Kibbe is mainly about how clothing hangs of your body. Could you elaborate on how we can know in your system the width parameter? I find narrow surprising for romantics.
Romantics are rounded in frame but also delicate and not really wide, but rounded and fleshy makes people think fat which I guess makes people think wide too but I wouldn't say they have width in their frames.
Kibbe romantics might be in several body matrix types! One is narrow + short + round (remember kibbe petite is narrow + short) but also medium + short + round and even medium + medium + round
@@elliejeanroyden thank you for the clarification, medium is more in the realm where I can picture most of the romantics and I also saw some examples there on your pinterest in the body matrix :)
A soft gamine will often have longer hands and feet and forearms or very square hands and feet, romantics and theatrical romantic will always have small looking hands and feet.
Of course there can be other differences.
As a SG I tend to notice this.
I noticed that too. I don’t have large hands for example but they are larger and more square compared to the Romantic and TR’s I know.
I know SGs who have small but wide hands and feet. TRs have narrow hands and feet, but not necessarily small. Look at verified Vivien Leigh, her hands are the same size with her face. Size don't matter that much, even SDs can have small hands, while in theory they 'should' have larger hands.
@@kreator1474 yes they did look large .
I get SG and TR seem super similar and some people would be hard to pick for each type, but some are so easy and I think the styles differ for them quite a bit. As a TR I don't have small hands and feet, they are small only that they are in proportion with the rest of me, but they are long and narrow.
Wait,in body matrix,romantic is narrow or medium in width?
I was wondering about that cause romantics can wear wider styles like princess sleeves and square necklines but I drown in them as a theatrical romantic. I would associate their width more with soft classics. There's at least a slight difference in need for tapering imo. Maybe switching the priorities around like someone else mentioned?
As a Romantic talking to many Romantics on the platform we would not agree with "narrow" discriptor. Medium is more like it. The problem is if you look at 20 year olds that are slim you don't see much difference, they can borrow each other's clothes quite successfully together with soft naturals (different items across the group, rarely the same exact item). When you grow into your body that's when the differences are more pronounced and you can't get away with what you used to. Especially Romantics. As they are at the edge of the spectrum they don't have as much wiggle room as any other type that at least has some accompanying feature (like TR being narrower in bones to R).
@@pinkroses135 yes,romantics can take more width in the necklines,etc.I think that's one of the reasons why some strugle to tell if they are sn or r,specially if the person is over weight. While tr don't have that much toleration to width and can easly be overwelmed by it.
@@JR-sx3gl yeah,I notice that when people are young,they can go with within the similar subtypes style,but when they are more grown up,is easy to see that the outfit is off. For example, many fn(flamboyant natural)lady are very beautifull in they youth,I've seen a girl that have a incredible long vertical line,with that she could only be:fn,sd,d ; but she is soo beautifull that everything she wears look good on her gamine,natural, classic,looks soo good since she is young,the clothes can look trendy but when they became mature and need to dress more "adult" the affesmcts of the lines will be seen more easly.
They might be either depends on the individual!
Do you fit here if you're narrow medium and round? Like moderate vertical line 😮
I actually have no clue wtf am i because ppl have told me in that facebook group that im a soft gamine but i also think i fit romantic more tho?
What do you do for someone who is a mix of body types? I feel like I’m a mix of the dramatic and flamboyant natural types since my body reflects both characteristics and either style of clothing can really work well.
Also, overall a strict typology for human bodies never completely sat right given my experience. I like how you bring nuance into the conversation.
Dear Ellie 🫶 have you any videos about wearing Puff sleeves? I'm soooo into late 1800-1900 styles and find that many puff-sleeves don't just suit me. (FG with G-N essence) I have some broadness in my narrow structure and I'm delicate, but some features are prominent or large (nose, shoulders, cheeks...) but hands and chest area is small and delicate. Is there body matrix scale for puffsleeves? Thank you for advance, you're the best ❤
I think I’m wide, long, and straight, and I have never known what to do with that because of dismorphia.
Wide, long, & straight is usually a flamboyant natural frame & looks good with those line recommendations. Many many models are FN's, so it's not a bad frame to have! ❤
@@BeaLucile Thank you! ♥️
Is long the same in kibbe where you are a certain height and automatically on of the long types or is proportion included in your system? And does it make a difference if the legs are short but torso long or vice versa? Because I feel like that makes a huge difference in what looks good on a person
Proportion matters. For example, some Flamboyant Gamines can wear long lines for their short height, because they have a lot of vertical in proportion to their body size. Lisa Bonet is 5'2" & does this beautifully.
as a medium short medium soft gamine, I agree
Can a flamboyant gamine be taller than 5’5”? I’m just over 5’6” and I don’t fit into FN, D, or SD. I think I most closely fit the description of a flamboyant gamine, but the restrictions make me unsure.
According to Kibbe, they can't be that tall. But maybe you find more answers in Ellie-Jean's system, more suitable answers for yourself at least. She has a pinterest board for her body matrix types, maybe that helps?
By the way, I would probably be considered straight, narrow and moderate to long (I allowed myself to consider adding a tendency for the vertical aspect. FN, D and SD also don't work for me, DC is great for me, but not a PERFECT match. I am too tall for R, TR, SG, FG, SN and SC. Some of the recommendations for DC look a bit stiff on me already. When I do go for narrow and fitted lines that aren't too soft and keep the length moderate to slightly long, it looks great. So that's what I'm going with. Oversized silhouettes drown me easily (make me look like a clothing hanger) and rounded/soft lines make me look aged and sometimes even severe. Short lines can make me look wider and shapeless, so... yah. That's how I go about it.
Essence though: I definitely have classic and probably a tad bit of natural too, but I am not fully sure about it, but would make sense if I think about what hairstyles and make up styles look best on me (especially in combination with what I prefer to wear in clothes). And always remember things like this: Classics for example aren't supposed to wear athleasure for anything else but working out, but those fitted, narrow, very nicely constructed runners jackets or even hiking jackets can look incredible on me while a simple, oversized hoodie and a loose pair of sweatpants DEFINITELY make me look VERY sloppy and frumpy. So it all depends on the exact construction and the fabric of the garment, not its original purpose.
@@JuliaKirsty thanks so much ! I definitely have gamine/ethereal essence though I am unsure of my third essence.
That's funny because i always thought I was more of a romantic, but i'm short wide and round
Consider whether the width is frame or flesh. Wide shoulder frame? Could be SG or even SN if its quite wide....even if you're short! That's why Scarlett Johansson is a SN & not an R. Moderate shoulder frame, but just very fleshy? Probably still R.
@@BeaLucile Oh, thank you ! I do have a lot of fleshiness independently of my weight, but i clearly have width in my frame. For exemple i love wearing padded shoulders and puffy sleeves but I does make me look weird. I looked up Scarlett Johansson and i do think i have a very similar frame, so I might be a SN ! But I'm quite short, more than the Kibbe limit it seems. I'm 159cm, or 5'3'', so maybe it's more SG ? But I think in the more vibe version of Kibbe I would be SN, because i also have a lot of natural essence (and no gamine essence)
This video made no sense and had no solid knowledge to grasp so confused
Omg I love ur roots coming in 🥲 #sensitive