PleAse ignore the WhatsApp intruder. It’s a coercive scammer .. playing on your vulnerabilities…. to get you to invest $ via hijacking Richard’s logo.. be careful
Knocked it out the park with this one Richard. I've been on a long journey of physical illness and recovery after moving away from home and a mother whom I suspect has BPD brought about by a long line of hellish intergenerational trauma. I've studied more than I care to recall to get to the bottom of this mess but still some big pieces of the puzzle fell into place through this seminar. Thank you for sharing it.
1:18:20 soooooo helpful. thank you Richard, "neglecting your partner is abuse" this is what I needed to hear so badly. Cause no therapist is defining abuse when this partner constantly left the room when I wanted to have a conversation, but he was never leaving when it was about sex" It is so hurting. So I will write that down. Neglecting is abuse!!!
@@lakama4965 I am so sorry, I got abandoned while pregnant too, it's the Worst... I was with my Narcissist husband 17 years. Sorry you are going through it. Be careful with your next relationship. I got tricked by another Narcissist even worse! Put yourself first and anyone who drains you leave them! Hugs 💜
I've never been clinically diagnosed with BPD ,but you are describing a younger me. I'm 52yo now, but up until I was my late 20s, I operated almost exactly like someone with BPD. One of my turning points was realising I was being the best martyr that ever martyr'd! And that's when I started 'getting better'
I am experiencing drastic mood swings in my nine year old granddaughter. When she gets into this space, she becomes extremely disrespectful. She speaks in defiance. For example, she uses words like ‘ I hate to’ or go away , or I don’t want to speak to you,
We have had her in counseling but I am not sure if she is implementing the techniques that her counselor has taught her. Whenever she’s in this state , it’s like she’s a completely different personality. We don’t know what to do or how to handle the situation. Please help
@@gloriaferguson2884 The described is generally normal defiant and belligerent behaviour of a nine year old who was not presented with the concept of discipine and very likely is mirroring her elders. Addressing the adults in her environment may be a more worthwhile idea than placing the onus of responsibility on the child and subjecting her to unnecessary therapy.
My son was in a long term relationship with a clinically diagnosed borderline. Everything that you said about them is her to a T. The amount of trauma she put my son through is maddening. He went from a self assured happy person to a drug addicted depressed shell at the end. He is now in recovery and becoming a better version of himself. Thank you so much for doing these videos and talking about this topic. It's helped me understand and process my own trauma in regard to their relationship.
Im exactly terrified of this, my ex wife cut herself with him in the house, gaslighted me, had a secret life, affairs, slept with tons of men while intoxicated, stalked these men afterwards, and made me dysregulated and reactive. I even testified in court to all of this as she sat and crued playing victim...no reciprocity, no truths, and she filed a tpo on me the same day she slept with me, blackmailed me emotionally. Breadcrumbed me with her affairs, her reactive identification, i am a survivor. The courts dont understand any of this and it can not be used against them they will weaponize it all against you...im so scared for him.
@@Ren_Mari I think "alex" is replying to @Taylor Sky - the person alluding to the idea that your son got stuck in an abusive relationship because of you ... One of those people that doesn't understand that this can happen to anyone.
I thought I was borderline too no thanks to my mom then realized my brain was not only patterning itself after a primary caregiver (naturally) but had also developed coping mechanisms in response to the extreme abuse and neglect. Qualified as anxiously attached/disorganized w/ heavy codependency for a good while. That was a mouthful! 😌
I thought the same! But I have no sense of entitlement or exploitation...instead I blame myself for all the things gone wrong. And now after hearing this bit from Richard about how to discern, I'm questioning what my mom is too! I always thought NPD- vulnerable (undiagnosed) but now I'm more confused. Could she have been BPD? Question ❓ for @Richard: does a BPD raise a BPD child or just give the child CPTSD through the abuse? I feel that is what I have and NOT BPD. So grateful for this 👀 opening video and so eager to learn so much more! After getting out of a many year relationship with an NPD, it has left me devastated and I blamed my self for everything and a BPD would not do that is that correct?
@@blondiek35 CPTSD is a new diagnosis. 70% of people diagnosed with BPD have a history of trauma and/or abuse and the traits are basically the same. The thing is that if trauma and abuse happens during childhood when brain and personality are developing it could have more permanent effects and becoming part of one's personality.
@@blondiek35 CPTSD is a new diagnosis. 70% of people diagnosed with BPD have a history of trauma and/or abuse and the traits are basically the same. The thing is that if trauma and abuse happens during childhood when brain and personality are developing it could have more permanent effects and becoming part of one's personality.
@@blondiek35 CPTSD is a new diagnosis. 70% of people diagnosed with BPD have a history of trauma and/or abuse and the traits are basically the same. The thing is that if trauma and abuse happens during childhood when brain and personality are developing it could have more permanent effects and becoming part of one's personality.
@Jon G 💯 Did you notice the subtle brilliance of cutting it off by changing the subject and saying she’d be the greatest weapon of torture with her talking? 😉 It was wearing me out. She went with it. He’s good! 🤩😎
@@catsmeow3478 So much for empathy. She is a vulnerable human being, probably traumatized to this condition. Give people some kindness. It was sad to see. Gannon's comment was unnecessary and in poor taste.
@@bruceeide5644 I wonder if she was the stalker he mentioned in another video. What she was doing was disrespectful, manipulative and abusive. Excusing that behavior is not empathy. Most of us who participate and watch are traumatized btw.
Wow.. Thankyou. As a lay person who was raised in 7 instutions and a violent home this really gives me some science on whos who and how it happened. My way to deal with ptsd is to live alone in a forest for 10 yrs. Ive never mastered the constant fight or flught of being around people. Prefer the company of animals. Cheers. Binni Australia. Xx
I wish Richard could come and train the NHS team in the UK, they refuse to recognise narc abuse and even cptsd. I have been refused a specialist not that there is any in the Uk in the NHS system. Mental health teams are being made aware by our community through people sharing their difficulties in finding recovery experts and the need to train at least one person in each community team to have thiseducation and knowledge so they can sign post people to where they need to go in terms of immediate treatment. I have recently contacted my MP and made the Minister for Mental Health aware but no immediate indication thats it is moving forward but we battle on
Thank you for this presentation. My ex wife is a borderline and this clears up so much. My attachment style did change after she left and the more narcissist she was during marriage the more narcissist I became. I have Asperger's and I really noticed the internal change. It felt almost like a stranger setting up shop. Im three years removed from that but Im still struggling with the aftermath.
I’m going through the same thing. It was like I was invaded by something. Like demonic possession! I started getting symptoms of his (anxiety, panic attacks, etc) that I’ve never experienced in my life. When I was discarded that fake persona also vanished, but my original self didn’t return. Instead it was like my skull was cut open and a blender stuck inside. I’ve been completely ‘dead’ for a year and only just starting to recover now. I’ve never experienced anything like it and hope I never do again. I’ve forgotten who I was before it happened, but I’m hoping I can remember over time.
@@lisaariottiart I don't have many possessions anyway and the one thing in my life that still gives me happiness is my little niece who I wouldn't want to abandon. I can understand how that might help some people, but it's not an available option for me.
So sorry you went through this @Danny G could you please explain what you’ve gone through after? How long were you in the relationship? What happened? She split and left?
I’m 42 and I suspect I’m a borderline. Throughout my teens and twenties to the extreme. Now I feel I’m becoming more self aware and all the issues I had seem to be at much lower levels. Interesting.
@@1977pawelos i noticed, at the age of 45 that I was much less emotional, especially in my outward display of emotion. However, interestingly, this did occur after I ended a relationship with a man who I highly suspect has NPD. I went through a living hell, which forced me to look at my own traumas (childhood). I did a tonne of introspection and, I think this process was very helpful in getting back my sense of self. Anyway, perhaps it was a combination of the work I did after a traumatizing relationship, and a 'coming of age'.
It could have something to do with hormones changing due to menopause. Having estrogen decrease in women and having testosterone decrease in men as we age may effect our emotional energy levels
@@oliviachipperfield6029 Thank you very much for sharing. I heard the emotions falling away does not necessarily mean the behavior patterns or even self harm falls away. I hope for some it does.
Thank you, Richard! One of your best! As a teacher I deal with dozens of kids daily who are learning to swim in a storm surge. May you grow ever stronger as you are growing now. God bless.
Teachers are so undervalued in general, and good teachers especially are perhaps the most important and valuable people in the world, i.e. they should be rewarded and protected and supported. If you consider in terms of net positive benefit to society, one good teacher, particularly if they take it as a vocation and thus make it their life’s learning, work and passion, can do more good to humanity than anyone else. What I’m taking a huge amount of words to try to say to you Suzanne, as one of the ex-kids who got washed out with the ‘storm surge’, is that I hope the same for you as you wish for Richard. What you do is amazing, and thank you.
I was manipulated and gradually and abused for 10 years on and off , as I broke up many times with a sadistic narcissist but I self diagnosed him with BPD. It was a tragic mistake. He exploited me at the end. Finally I found a therapist who met him once and read his texts and emails and said he was a narcissistic not a BPD. A waste of a decade and much damage done bc I thought he had the capacity to love when I fact it was only manipulation.
I’m kind of reeling from this, like “ok, WHAT did I just watch??” This came out of nowhere for me, cut through the fog, and DEFINED with actual tools to cope and achieve progress, I’m astounded. I now want to do a more targeted, thorough diagnostic session with a therapist that reflects this level of understanding because this has given me hope where there was almost nothing left. I’m literally shaking
This is one of the best videos I've seen on this channel. It's very helpful from the talk about narcissism/bpd to what's going on in our culture today. I loved it!
Dude, that's my friend... Yes, he's a former Marine and diagnosed with PTSD, but it sounds like BPD, in your description of it... I know his family dynamics well, and then he has all the stuff from his war time to deal with... He loses it on long time friends. I've watched him do it to others and he's done it to me. He blames it on his PTSD... He escalates a conversation. First he tries to control it and when he starts to escalate internally he tells others to modify themselves so he can feel better. It wasn't this bad before, but the past few years it's happening too much. I can't deal with being teamed with managing his emotions. I had to be the family's emotional regulator growing up. He may not actually be BPD, but he's ticking the boxes here pretty good.
My N diagnosed Mum recently passed away. Towards the end she was her real self, just holding my hand. I could see, that she knew, that she was was at the end. I could see the sheer fear in her, yet all the false self, selfishness, greed, and attention stuff was gone. She needed me, for something real, for the first time in my life. Now she's gone, I wish I had a little more patience for her ways.
Regardless of our pain or trauma or diagnosis, or the knowledge of other people's pain or trauma or diagnosis, the big damn deal is we are all responsible for our behavior, especially when it's cruel and abusive...and as such for the way we allow ourselves to be treated🤪 I'm terrible at that one❤❤❤
Amazing! I had literally just sat down & was gonna scroll around looking for something good to watch.. perfect timing & really psyched for this topic : )
There are no Narcs or psychos in my family. When confronted with a Narc and energy vampire it totally confused me as I'm an empath. Didn't realise I was targeted cos I was confident and happy. My intuition kept screaming get away from this person, they're evil and negative. I felt drained and depressed the next day after being around them. A real friend would never do that. After 6 months I went no contact, no explanation and no closure. Blocked their phone no and socially avoid them. Now it's got 2 flying monkeys to get revenge. When I'm asked anything I simply smile and say 'no comment'. It's got the message and got a new supply. Best revenge move on and show your happy without them. It was a hard lesson. I love and respect myself enough never to get in that situation again.💗
The fact that you’re an “empath” shows that you most probably almost without a doubt have had either one or two narcissistic parents and are just unaware of it
@@erxfav3197 As far as I'm aware neither parent was a Narc. I came from a large family, had lots of love and a lot of freedom, was never suppressed or controlled. Being empathic came from spiritual awareness. Yoga, meditation, fasting, vegetarian diet and strong sense of intuition. Also had partner treating patients with alternative medicine and saw their suffering both physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. I was blessed not to have their problems and that taught me compassion.
@@dumblizzie well that sounds wayyy to strong of “intuition” etc… I being an empath myself.. know it doesn’t just come from nowhere… You may not be aware. (Of abuse or etc) (Neglect is abuse as well.) Not getting needs met as a small child which you cant remember is abuse. Having an anxious, sad, or unhappy parent is also traumatic to an infant. If an infant feels unsafe at all especially if it is recurring.. Or the mother has to leave the child to go to work etc. Or is disinterested etc. All can create hypervigilance in a child. This is the root of “empath” type states. (As I believe it to be in my experience) There’s more to it of course but most people are really really unaware or in denial. Also, people dont just undergo “spiritual paths” without trauma involved in their background.. Even if (and perhaps ESPECIALLY if) its unaware/unconscious.
@@erxfav3197 as much i want to categories myself as an Empath, i definitely fall in codependent territories, and i have this "alter" that eill come out of nowhere, as this "alter" definitely Psycho's..... i think people who try to label themselves as empath, definitely have mental issues, might be depression, anxiety, or others.... normal healthy people don't need to label themselves with empath, and don't need to hide behind fake accounts, cause they don't need anything to hide, Empaths are people who have unhealed childhood trauma.... sorry if i come to blunt and honest....
@@erxfav3197 yes, if we want to healed, the first part is acknowledge our flaws and our trauma, and try to heal from those wounds, or we never be healed..... we don't need to sacrifice ourself for humanity, ordinay people just do ordinary things, it's okay to be ordinary and spiritual....
I'm CPTSD was fortunate enough to have intensive DBT & EMDR inpatient therapy programs through out the year and they really helped. Cultivating spiritual practise, routine and interdependent relationships has been intrinsic to my recovery process following the hospital stay. I am struggling a little at the moment with a friendship right now though. My friend is a big drinker with alot of unprocessed trauma. I have heard the same trauma stories repeatedly over and over, it's like she has nothing else to talk about. I cancelled some very loose plans with her about a week ago and she reacted in a abusive way. I really struggle with conflict as my trauma is from torture level abuse and bullying over a long period of time. I know I need to detach from this person as it's not a healthy dynamic for me. I even have physical pain the day after I've seen her because I've been tensing so much around her. I'm pretty sure she's BPD and she can get so ferocious when she's angry. I know I need to walk away to save myself, this talk really helped me realise that
Firstly - you do need to walk away - you cant fix people who arent trying hard to fix themselves xx Secondly - my son was just just offered those therapies - do you feel they helped?
Thank you for this. I was with a diagnosed BPD guy and it was like nothing I have ever imagined. I should have believed him when he told what kind of a piece of shit he was...I tried to convince him he was wrong...idiot!! I love that this conversation turned into what it did. It's nice to hear from a good sample of society on real opinions. Thank you so much.
What a great seminar. I need a t shirt "Aslan's Not Coming" :) Wonderful Richard. As usual you've furthered the search for betterment, understanding and truth, I'm sorry I ever doubted you, just so many voices on the internet it's hard to figure out what is true.
This is a very interesting seminar. I didn’t know people do these. I’m sure there a lot of value to the group setting as I’ve been through stuff with what I thought was a bpd/narcissist
"you will reach a point with the borderline where you say it is them or me - I love you I want to save you, but I'm dying here - it's going have to be me otherwise this tragedy becomes a catastrophe" I'm definitely getting closer and closer to this point but unfortunately - I still feel guilty at the thought of leaving
Finally! Someone that not only 'gets' it, but can explain it in plain English for the masses. This and Sam Vaknin' s latest video of why Narcissitic abuse hurts so much are the icing on a very poor catalogue out there, of other information. Congratulations Richard. I would chop it off at 50 mins as it's way too long and very few of the questions add value, in my opinion. The one definition that I really struggle with in regards to BPD is, that everyone assumes their fear is of abandonment. As an adult, we cannot be abandoned! Their fear is not of abandonment, but of LOVE. To obtain love you have to be willing to be vulnerable. You watch a BPD with a child and there is vulnerability and the giving of love (because the child won't reject or judge them). If you see forums from Borderlines they have a weird tilt on the meaning and understandings and actions of what love looks like to them. They say, I want love, I am lovable, but they have NO definition of what love looks like to them when asked. I once had a client, who took great pride in smashing her mother's possessions, I said you must really hate your mom. Oh no, she said I love her dearly... her perception was that those actions to her, were congruent with what love looked like. I've been married to a diagnosed BPD for 38 years... I no longer try to love him, it's like trying to cut your own heart out... You will get so far and then whollop they pull the rug out and sabotage it all. The fear of vulnerability is just way too overwhelming for them. They want to love so desperately, but just can't risk it. Of course, it comes from childhood abandonment. I love the idea that it may be renamed... Emotional disregulation and unavailability would be the perfect title. The 'looking for a mommy' SO, SO TRUE. But again, they don't 'want' to be mothered, but don't want to take adult accountability either. A really great phrase for a partner of a BPD person... is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Eventually, as I am slowly learning... You stop being damned either way 😉 Thanks again on your great work 😊
Richard you are great i learn a lot from you. Its really very interesting i wish i could attend meetings like this. Well i live in denmark...i do not assume your are ever doing them over here. Please keep posting them ....greetings from denmark
I like the move towards m making BPD och covert narcs the same as emotional disregulated disorder or something like this. They seem to be very very close to eachother and it would make the idea around it would become less confusing. I have been through this twice first with someone who was very clearly BPD (abandonment terror, entitlement, suicidal ideation etc) and the other time someone that was much more covert, similar but without the suicidal ideation. Myself has realised that I have a lot of traits from the cluster B but I seem to lack the entitlement and exploitation traits. But the most important things I have heard to get to a point where I can become an adult is: Toxic is toxic If it feels wrong it is wrong If someone is ostentatiously trying to get your attention, be with you, sleep with you etc it is fake - at least it comes from a false premise. The idea that most of my own problems may be a response to prolonged grief and the idea that the emotional response is artifacts and projected feelings. All this together allowed me to finally go completely no contract with crazy no 2. Sure, 8 feel sorry for her but there is nothing i can do for her and there is nothing i will get from this relationship as it is clear that she is cluster B in some sense. As i now went full no contact and have not been allowing myself even to think about her I realize that in none of these two relationships I have actually loved them. I thought I did, but it is at least plausible to think that it was not my feelings. It may have been these artifacts.
Interesting. I have prolonged grief ... What do you mean by ' artifacts?' thank you. I also wonder if I ever really "loved" or just had the coddpendent attachment to my last ex who was NPD.
The more I listen to you, Mr Grannon, the more I see the deep bullshit I was raised in and how much work was needed to rise out of it: and, the more grateful I am to have been taught meditation as a child - fully against every adult of my childhood. Yeeehaw, rebellion works.
Incredible description of the borderline experience. I was never diagnosed, but I truly believe that mine would be that of BPD. And my father - he went to Vietnam and saw some horrible things.
1:31:10 I used to deal with the same problem.There seem to be two sides of the issue with avoidant communication style.Firstly, it may be our projection caused by our attachment trauma, when people don't paying attention serve as a trigger.Then it's just our culture today with plenty of passive aggression and egocentrism on a daily basis.
I want to throw in something that took me a long time to understand. Avoidance, as brought up by the lady with the gloves and as I believe she might have meant it, is a powerful narcissistic or psychopathic method. It's a modern one. But don't forget that they evolve, just like we all do.
One day I hope you do a seminar in the US, or another one if you've already done it, and I can attend. You've done a lot of good for a lot of people, myself included.
@@omarra6781 hilarious. I really needed this today. I have been emotionally abused for 12 yrs. He is nice as a father and provider and helps out.. but when he is jealous he calls me names and looks up phone records and makes up scenarios. . but he is nice otherwise. I am so tired and scared as I have been a stay at home mom. I reached out to Richard on fb..I am nuts but between him Sam Vankin and Dr. Ramini...I'll take any one of them. You get desperate for validation, to know it's not you who is the crazy one. How do you split from someone you love who is hurting you emotionally/ verbally. How do you do it without being the victim and do so with courage? This is me today..
@@Floatingaccidentallike It's tough to be in that position and tough to leave. Enlist the help of friends and family. Especially as your kids are learning this behavior. You will have to give up on him changing. He won't, and you'll be paying the price til the end of time. I have to ask, are you reeeaaally nuts, or is he convincing you you are? What if you're simply having a natural reaction to his bad behavior? Like Mom_B_Salty said, I got out, you can too. Many of us have been in similar predicaments. You can do it! :-)
Thanks Ritchie for your awesome guidance and skilled delivery You set the foundation for my healing many years ago, and still love following to gain even more knowledge to help others now If I may suggest to anyone; “The Body keeps the Score “ Bessel Van Der Kolk, M.D. Is vitally important information on Trauma and is minimized here in the US unfortunately ( politics) Please, refer to chapter 17 I feel One must acknowledge “ how” one whom is traumatized is “MANANING“ ALL their different “PARTS” …the Fact that WE All have different “parts” (including Narcs) we must “Manage” is not focused on enough! This knowledge alone would help many frightened individuals begin to wrangle them “different parts” in, and stop letting one part or 2 primarily “run the show” …by observing them in action , therefore changing/ neuro plasticity is enabled as well as recovery This would truly promote more healing in a world that is quickly dismantling Blessings 🙏
The lunatic I dealt with for 25 yrs was obsessed with his narc 'mother' his father left when my x was 2 so she trained him to worship her, if mummy wasn't happy no one was happy, it was like they were a couple, very sickening she would flirt with him, they slept in the same bed till he was 18, I have cptsd from putting up with them for 25yrs thankfully he ran off and remarried, apparently his new wife and his 1st wife (mummy) all get along.
Neglect . . . Right now, if my spouse listened to this, he would point me right to the place where you say neglecting your partner is abuse. However, what is left out of that whole equation is what if your partner has been so abusive to you that you have had to withdrawal from them to emotionally protect yourself? I had to change up our sleeping situation last year due to chronic insomnia. I had asked and asked to do it for years, but had been shut down, and met with contempt anytime I asked. Finally, out of pure exhaustion, I went ahead and did it. Hey, I am an adult, don't I get to make some decisions especially if they affect my health? Anyway, I hadn't meant to put a wall between my spouse and myself, but he became so enraged, that I had to pull back from him - which only enraged him more. In his mind, I owe him intimacy, and he feels he can bully and rage at me, then be nice for a short while, and I should just agree. No, I don't. Throughout this whole ordeal, I have been kind to him, I have listened to him, and I have tried to reconnect with him to basically renew our friendship first before the other stuff. However, months and months of disrespect, name calling, insults, menacing, raging, hitting things, do not equal us knocking boots after a few nice days, which is all he will ever give me before spiraling back down to meanness. I want things to get better, I keep trying, but he has inspired such fear in me that my hands can shake or my teeth chatter in his presence, so I need a prolonged period of him being sweet to me to trust enough to ever let my guard down that far again. I am not a masochist. He just doesn't get it, and rages more. He's doing the exact opposite of what he needs to do, but he feels he is in control, and it is his way or the highway. At this point, I am trying to find the exit ramp, but if he could have just valued my feelings a little bit, it would never have had to be this way. :(
@@framclean7910 while I understand where you are going with this, it's still quite insensitive. Leaving toxic relationships are complicated. Some with financial implications, physical danger (murder is not unheard of when trying to leave), custody of children, etc. My attempts to leave has incurred legal abuse with the abuser trying to take my child from me. Still fighting. Please be kind to those who are working through and trying to make sense of the situation.
@@daughter_of_the_king I love how you expressed your understanding at the beginning of this. Also, I'm in a similar boat. I really really feel for you going through that and I wish you all the best.
@@blakejackson7193 thanks Blake. We all learn through experiences. I once didn't get it either and wondered aloud why people stayed in such relationships. Only when I was in the same situation broken, confused, scared, with all my confidence shattered did I understand. It wasn't as simple as I once thought. I hope that you see light at the end of the tunnel soon and are free.
Thank you so much for this, Richard, it was wonderful. It's healing just to hear your videos, and this one with the input from the audience members (who are wonderful). Thank you, this really helps me a lot! :)
Richard i have a few ❓❓ 1. Does a mother with BPD rear a child with the same or just give her CPTSD? 2. Do NPDs tend to gravitate to/attract BPDs? 3. How does someone with prolonged grief (suicide loss of my son) and CPTSD heal from Narcissistic abuse? IKR!! 😳😩
So my Ex who I’m certain has BPD would constantly say she felt like a burden and worried non stop about me cheating on her. I was crazy about her, why would I do that? She was convinced I’d leave her. To the point she was driving me away. The harder I hung in the more she pushed me away. Eventually I was completely exhausted and was pulling back, and she was like “See! Told Ya!” Like I didn’t stand a chance. Total double bind. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Then it’s like she’d go to totally hating me. Like not indifferent, HATE. Then I’m trying to repair my reputation and it’s okay again. Only to repeat over and over. It was completely insane. Like trying to rope the wind
My ex would say the worst things, pushing me completely away then act so put off that I couldn’t take it. I would beg him not to speak to me in a demeaning way so that I could continue with him. He could not stop so then I would go silent, he would then say I was abandoning him. So, I understand the damn if you do and damn if you don’t- very well. I get this physical response in my heart when thinking about those times he would go on and on then act surprised when he had pushed me completely away.
@@Calmerthanyouare17 It’s a self fulfilling prophecy right? They drive people away, and then claim you’ve abandoned them. Food for thought though. Only Children and Pets are abandoned. Adults aren’t abandoned, they’re just not included in your future. Cheers :)
An excellent talk, Richard. Thank you. Will send you some info on the Power Threat Meaning Framework by Dr Lucy Johnstone as it may fit well with your thoughts on trauma-based dysregulation as opposed to diagnoses of 'mental ill health'. This work focuses on three ideas; who had power over you (typically in childhood); what threat did you face?; what meaning did you formulate in order to survive? All the best while you take a break dear Richard. Sending best wishes. 🤗
I am so appreciative that I happen to catch this! So much applied to all I have dealt with, but never quite understood ‘WTFRICK’ was actually going on! It is never too late to ‘start all over’ KNOWING all that I have recently learned from you! All will lead me to a much Happier.. ‘next time around’ if that EVER were to happen! Thank you So much, as always! 🌸💐
Never been diagnosed as anything other than major depressive disorder, but that insight on BPD and flipping the switch to psychopath made me reflect on some relationships. I’ve definitely had that mindset redrum after a breakup with guys I couldn’t stand during the relationship. 😅
The woman discussing the ‘energy crisis’ in relationship is accurate today, especially in the dating culture and online dating. Theses days, many people are leaving the dating apps because of this idea.
Chaos=Potential. Universe started with a chaotic soup of quantum fluctuations, pure chaos. So yes, chinease did see that, and Yin-Yang expresses that. Order vs chaos. Stagnation vs change. Realization vs potential. Men vs women. I'm in love whit the bicycle chick already.
Definitely support psychiatric/neurologic medical treatment for kiddos. When Jordan Peterson, Granon, or any non-medical therapist advises against medication, please question that! There seems to be a helpful argument in support for changing the brain chemistry in young people who are not responsive to usual counseling. "Balancing" brain chemistry might or might not be possible, but that's not the issue or goal. But CHANGING it can save, and has saved lives. I used to think that the high school boys who came to class feeling very sleepy were over drugged. They indeed were not. Rather, these young men were unable to sleep at night! It left them insatiably exhausted. I think it's extremely important to find out what is needed to save these kids without traumatizing them further. So as much as I deeply appreciate Richard here, I think that resorting to mediTation and possibly leave out mediCation---well, that possibly is a dangerous choice for many mentally ill young people. And then, I will apologize now if I misunderstood Richard in any way. This is for the most part, for me, an outstanding presentation! Richard is among the few very knowledgeable in this area of human behavior and mind. 🧡🕊
43:20 for what it's worth, though I can see how someone looking through a narrow lens would see it that way, it isn't happening just in the west. Lots of eastern cultures have had genderless/third gender/postgender practices for ages. Look up Hirja in South Asia. Ancient Egypt had three genders (tai [male], sḫt ["sekhet"] and hmt [female]). Waria in Indonesia, the list goes on for anyone who would like to learn more.
This is interesting! I was diagnosed with BPD but my case of it isn't severe as others or I was told that! I do Dialectical Behavior Therapy and see a therapist and I'm constantly working on myself! I'm curious to know what Richard thinks about the Subtypes of BPD! I do understand what it feels like to deal with someone who also has BPD! I tried to be there for her but she NEVER/REFUSED to got/get help. I tried helping and being a good friend to her but it got too exhausting! When I told her I needed space and made boundaries she freaked out and attacked me horrifically online and blocked me! I felt awful I couldn't help her but I couldn't! I tried but she just wouldn't get help and I'm not a therapist! ☹️ She also tried destroying friendships with others out of fear of me leaving! My ex-friendship with her really helps me stay in therapy and be a better person! What Richard said that he doesn't think if you lack of entitlement and exploitation then chances are you don't have BPD surprised me! I was diagnosed with BPD after I tried killing myself and because my mom emotionally/verbally abused me my whole life! Now I wonder whether I have C-PTSD or not after what Richard said!
I can relate and just had the same questions! No entitlement or exploitative behavior.. but all the other traits. So is that CPTSD from the childhood abuse?
@@blondiek35 I wonder now too! I've seen 5 psychiatrists and 4 out 5 only diagnosed me with major depression, anxiety disorder, panic disorder and PTSD! It was the last one that diagnosed me with BPD after I nearly killed myself...It seems like psychiatrists now just diagnose without really looking into things which is dangerous!
people with BPD seem to evoke compassion naturally in other people - and that's why you have to be very careful not to get caught by the emotional hook called: compassion
Wow. Just wow. Pennies dropping. Mr Grannon you are just bringing on the quality every time, thank you 🙏🏼🌺
PleAse ignore the WhatsApp intruder. It’s a coercive scammer .. playing on your vulnerabilities…. to get you to invest $ via hijacking Richard’s logo.. be careful
@@waterbottle2183 uuuu
Knocked it out the park with this one Richard. I've been on a long journey of physical illness and recovery after moving away from home and a mother whom I suspect has BPD brought about by a long line of hellish intergenerational trauma. I've studied more than I care to recall to get to the bottom of this mess but still some big pieces of the puzzle fell into place through this seminar. Thank you for sharing it.
1:18:20 soooooo helpful. thank you Richard, "neglecting your partner is abuse" this is what I needed to hear so badly. Cause no therapist is defining abuse when this partner constantly left the room when I wanted to have a conversation, but he was never leaving when it was about sex" It is so hurting. So I will write that down. Neglecting is abuse!!!
I needed to hear this too, after a 6 year relationship with someone who abandoned me while pregnant and blaming me for his actions.
That is what I have been saying to a Friend of mine for a long time. I'm glad Richard is shining a light on this so brilliant as always!
@@lakama4965 I am so sorry, I got abandoned while pregnant too, it's the Worst... I was with my Narcissist husband 17 years. Sorry you are going through it. Be careful with your next relationship. I got tricked by another Narcissist even worse! Put yourself first and anyone who drains you leave them! Hugs 💜
I've never been clinically diagnosed with BPD ,but you are describing a younger me. I'm 52yo now, but up until I was my late 20s, I operated almost exactly like someone with BPD. One of my turning points was realising I was being the best martyr that ever martyr'd! And that's when I started 'getting better'
I am experiencing drastic mood swings in my nine year old granddaughter. When she gets into this space, she becomes extremely disrespectful. She speaks in defiance. For example, she uses words like ‘ I hate to’ or go away , or I don’t want to speak to you,
We have had her in counseling but I am not sure if she is implementing the techniques that her counselor has taught her. Whenever she’s in this state , it’s like she’s a completely different personality. We don’t know what to do or how to handle the situation. Please help
@@gloriaferguson2884 The described is generally normal defiant and belligerent behaviour of a nine year old who was not presented with the concept of discipine and very likely is mirroring her elders. Addressing the adults in her environment may be a more worthwhile idea than placing the onus of responsibility on the child and subjecting her to unnecessary therapy.
Yeah, this is a super classic narrative in BPD. There’s a moment of recognition, and then you can’t unsee it, and then you can’t help but fix it.
@@Gabrielle937yeah nothing in that felt like it sounded like nascent BPD at all, it sounds like a kid that needs help.
My son was in a long term relationship with a clinically diagnosed borderline. Everything that you said about them is her to a T. The amount of trauma she put my son through is maddening. He went from a self assured happy person to a drug addicted depressed shell at the end. He is now in recovery and becoming a better version of himself. Thank you so much for doing these videos and talking about this topic. It's helped me understand and process my own trauma in regard to their relationship.
I'm sure he became a drug addict because of his relationship. Poor son, I wonder how did he end up in an abusive relationship to start with.
It must have been HIS fault because ALL vvomen are perfect, right?
@@THX5000 where in my comment did you get that impression?
Im exactly terrified of this, my ex wife cut herself with him in the house, gaslighted me, had a secret life, affairs, slept with tons of men while intoxicated, stalked these men afterwards, and made me dysregulated and reactive. I even testified in court to all of this as she sat and crued playing victim...no reciprocity, no truths, and she filed a tpo on me the same day she slept with me, blackmailed me emotionally. Breadcrumbed me with her affairs, her reactive identification, i am a survivor. The courts dont understand any of this and it can not be used against them they will weaponize it all against you...im so scared for him.
@@Ren_Mari I think "alex" is replying to @Taylor Sky - the person alluding to the idea that your son got stuck in an abusive relationship because of you ...
One of those people that doesn't understand that this can happen to anyone.
What I adore about this is how sweet & kind Richard is to the ladies who are telling their stories, what a gent 😎
I thought I was borderline too no thanks to my mom then realized my brain was not only patterning itself after a primary caregiver (naturally) but had also developed coping mechanisms in response to the extreme abuse and neglect. Qualified as anxiously attached/disorganized w/ heavy codependency for a good while. That was a mouthful! 😌
I thought the same! But I have no sense of entitlement or exploitation...instead I blame myself for all the things gone wrong. And now after hearing this bit from Richard about how to discern, I'm questioning what my mom is too! I always thought NPD- vulnerable (undiagnosed) but now I'm more confused. Could she have been BPD?
Question ❓ for @Richard: does a BPD raise a BPD child or just give the child CPTSD through the abuse?
I feel that is what I have and NOT BPD.
So grateful for this 👀 opening video and so eager to learn so much more! After getting out of a many year relationship with an NPD, it has left me devastated and I blamed my self for everything and a BPD would not do that is that correct?
@@blondiek35 CPTSD is a new diagnosis. 70% of people diagnosed with BPD have a history of trauma and/or abuse and the traits are basically the same.
The thing is that if trauma and abuse happens during childhood when brain and personality are developing it could have more permanent effects and becoming part of one's personality.
@@blondiek35 CPTSD is a new diagnosis. 70% of people diagnosed with BPD have a history of trauma and/or abuse and the traits are basically the same.
The thing is that if trauma and abuse happens during childhood when brain and personality are developing it could have more permanent effects and becoming part of one's personality.
@@blondiek35 CPTSD is a new diagnosis. 70% of people diagnosed with BPD have a history of trauma and/or abuse and the traits are basically the same.
The thing is that if trauma and abuse happens during childhood when brain and personality are developing it could have more permanent effects and becoming part of one's personality.
@@blondiek35 yep! My therapist pointed out my internalization too, it was so validating. I'm sorry you went through all that.
Richard is one of the greatest thinkers of this time.
That's really exagerated
Shoutout to the person in charge of the "Grannon's Triceps" camera. Inspired me to get back in the gym!
Well done Richard you showed compassionate boundaries with the crazy lady
@Jon G 💯 Did you notice the subtle brilliance of cutting it off by changing the subject and saying she’d be the greatest weapon of torture with her talking? 😉 It was wearing me out. She went with it. He’s good! 🤩😎
@@catsmeow3478 So much for empathy. She is a vulnerable human being, probably traumatized to this condition. Give people some kindness. It was sad to see. Gannon's comment was unnecessary and in poor taste.
She not privy to “social norms “ ready the room. I was that way once . It definitely from being traumatized.
@@bruceeide5644 I wonder if she was the stalker he mentioned in another video. What she was doing was disrespectful, manipulative and abusive. Excusing that behavior is not empathy. Most of us who participate and watch are traumatized btw.
Wow.. Thankyou. As a lay person who was raised in 7 instutions and a violent home this really gives me some science on whos who and how it happened.
My way to deal with ptsd is to live alone in a forest for 10 yrs. Ive never mastered the constant fight or flught of being around people.
Prefer the company of animals.
Cheers. Binni Australia. Xx
I wish Richard could come and train the NHS team in the UK, they refuse to recognise narc abuse and even cptsd. I have been refused a specialist not that there is any in the Uk in the NHS system. Mental health teams are being made aware by our community through people sharing their difficulties in finding recovery experts and the need to train at least one person in each community team to have thiseducation and knowledge so they can sign post people to where they need to go in terms of immediate treatment. I have recently contacted my MP and made the Minister for Mental Health aware but no immediate indication thats it is moving forward but we battle on
Thank you for this presentation. My ex wife is a borderline and this clears up so much. My attachment style did change after she left and the more narcissist she was during marriage the more narcissist I became. I have Asperger's and I really noticed the internal change. It felt almost like a stranger setting up shop. Im three years removed from that but Im still struggling with the aftermath.
I’m going through the same thing. It was like I was invaded by something. Like demonic possession! I started getting symptoms of his (anxiety, panic attacks, etc) that I’ve never experienced in my life. When I was discarded that fake persona also vanished, but my original self didn’t return. Instead it was like my skull was cut open and a blender stuck inside. I’ve been completely ‘dead’ for a year and only just starting to recover now. I’ve never experienced anything like it and hope I never do again. I’ve forgotten who I was before it happened, but I’m hoping I can remember over time.
@@LDT7Y getting rid of all your possessions and moving 1000 miles away can help --- rebuild your life and yourself in a a better person.
@@lisaariottiart I don't have many possessions anyway and the one thing in my life that still gives me happiness is my little niece who I wouldn't want to abandon. I can understand how that might help some people, but it's not an available option for me.
@@LDT7Y I’m so sorry to hear that.. I’ve also been traumatized by my experience
So sorry you went through this @Danny G
could you please explain what you’ve gone through after? How long were you in the relationship? What happened? She split and left?
A borderlines Gaslighting is also quite unusual and unique as it seems to have intervolved with projective identification and delusion.
As Sam Vaknin pointed out, BPD's often lose their bpd at the age of 45. That happened to me. The emotional lability just fell off.
Hi. I have BDP. Can you describe more the feeling of losing it. And also the exact age is puzzling me. Well, I'm 44.
I’m 42 and I suspect I’m a borderline. Throughout my teens and twenties to the extreme. Now I feel I’m becoming more self aware and all the issues I had seem to be at much lower levels. Interesting.
@@1977pawelos i noticed, at the age of 45 that I was much less emotional, especially in my outward display of emotion. However, interestingly, this did occur after I ended a relationship with a man who I highly suspect has NPD. I went through a living hell, which forced me to look at my own traumas (childhood). I did a tonne of introspection and, I think this process was very helpful in getting back my sense of self. Anyway, perhaps it was a combination of the work I did after a traumatizing relationship, and a 'coming of age'.
It could have something to do with hormones changing due to menopause. Having estrogen decrease in women and having testosterone decrease in men as we age may effect our emotional energy levels
@@oliviachipperfield6029 Thank you very much for sharing. I heard the emotions falling away does not necessarily mean the behavior patterns or even self harm falls away. I hope for some it does.
You asked the audience if they feel guilty walking away. Yes, I do and its keeping me in this toxicity. I feel tremendous guilt.
Thank you, Richard! One of your best! As a teacher I deal with dozens of kids daily who are learning to swim in a storm surge. May you grow ever stronger as you are growing now. God bless.
Teachers are so undervalued in general, and good teachers especially are perhaps the most important and valuable people in the world, i.e. they should be rewarded and protected and supported. If you consider in terms of net positive benefit to society, one good teacher, particularly if they take it as a vocation and thus make it their life’s learning, work and passion, can do more good to humanity than anyone else.
What I’m taking a huge amount of words to try to say to you Suzanne, as one of the ex-kids who got washed out with the ‘storm surge’, is that I hope the same for you as you wish for Richard. What you do is amazing, and thank you.
@@chrislawuk Such a sweet comment! ❤ 💕
I was manipulated and gradually and abused for 10 years on and off , as I broke up many times with a sadistic narcissist but I self diagnosed him with BPD. It was a tragic mistake. He exploited me at the end. Finally I found a therapist who met him once and read his texts and emails and said he was a narcissistic not a BPD. A waste of a decade and much damage done bc I thought he had the capacity to love when I fact it was only manipulation.
I’m kind of reeling from this, like “ok, WHAT did I just watch??” This came out of nowhere for me, cut through the fog, and DEFINED with actual tools to cope and achieve progress, I’m astounded. I now want to do a more targeted, thorough diagnostic session with a therapist that reflects this level of understanding because this has given me hope where there was almost nothing left. I’m literally shaking
Excellent lecture. Thank you for providing this information on such a comprehensive level
Richard so grateful for you. You've taken us on a journey with you
and you've shown its ok to be real not perfect!
PleAse ignore the WhatsApp investment $ fraud scammer.. it’s not RichArd..
This seminar did reveal very much for me. It is liberating from a lot of shame and guilt issues. The work now.. Is staying clear.
This is one of the best videos I've seen on this channel. It's very helpful from the talk about narcissism/bpd to what's going on in our culture today. I loved it!
Best description ever between BPD and NPD
Dude, that's my friend... Yes, he's a former Marine and diagnosed with PTSD, but it sounds like BPD, in your description of it...
I know his family dynamics well, and then he has all the stuff from his war time to deal with... He loses it on long time friends. I've watched him do it to others and he's done it to me. He blames it on his PTSD...
He escalates a conversation. First he tries to control it and when he starts to escalate internally he tells others to modify themselves so he can feel better.
It wasn't this bad before, but the past few years it's happening too much. I can't deal with being teamed with managing his emotions. I had to be the family's emotional regulator growing up.
He may not actually be BPD, but he's ticking the boxes here pretty good.
Ahh Richard, I love you ❤️
My N diagnosed Mum recently passed away. Towards the end she was her real self, just holding my hand. I could see, that she knew, that she was was at the end. I could see the sheer fear in her, yet all the false self, selfishness, greed, and attention stuff was gone. She needed me, for something real, for the first time in my life.
Now she's gone, I wish I had a little more patience for her ways.
These words bring so much clarity.... sadness too.....
Great seminar Richard Grannon. Keep up the good work you help a lot of people understand this stuff! 👍🎯
Regardless of our pain or trauma or diagnosis, or the knowledge of other people's pain or trauma or diagnosis, the big damn deal is we are all responsible for our behavior, especially when it's cruel and abusive...and as such for the way we allow ourselves to be treated🤪 I'm terrible at that one❤❤❤
...
Excellent presentation, clear and invaluable information.
Good Q&A too.
Thanks Richard
...
Amazing! I had literally just sat down & was gonna scroll around looking for something good to watch.. perfect timing & really psyched for this topic : )
PleAse ignore the WhatsApp investment $ fraud scammer.. it’s not Richard..
This lecture is definetly the best lecture ive come across understanding bpd , ive studied psychology extensively and have bpd
There are no Narcs or psychos in my family. When confronted with a Narc and energy vampire it totally confused me as I'm an empath. Didn't realise I was targeted cos I was confident and happy. My intuition kept screaming get away from this person, they're evil and negative. I felt drained and depressed the next day after being around them. A real friend would never do that. After 6 months I went no contact, no explanation and no closure. Blocked their phone no and socially avoid them. Now it's got 2 flying monkeys to get revenge. When I'm asked anything I simply smile and say 'no comment'. It's got the message and got a new supply. Best revenge move on and show your happy without them. It was a hard lesson. I love and respect myself enough never to get in that situation again.💗
The fact that you’re an “empath” shows that you most probably almost without a doubt have had either one or two narcissistic parents and are just unaware of it
@@erxfav3197 As far as I'm aware neither parent was a Narc. I came from a large family, had lots of love and a lot of freedom, was never suppressed or controlled. Being empathic came from spiritual awareness. Yoga, meditation, fasting, vegetarian diet and strong sense of intuition. Also had partner treating patients with alternative medicine and saw their suffering both physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. I was blessed not to have their problems and that taught me compassion.
@@dumblizzie well that sounds wayyy to strong of “intuition” etc…
I being an empath myself.. know it doesn’t just come from nowhere…
You may not be aware. (Of abuse or etc)
(Neglect is abuse as well.)
Not getting needs met as a small child which you cant remember is abuse.
Having an anxious, sad, or unhappy parent is also traumatic to an infant.
If an infant feels unsafe at all especially if it is recurring..
Or the mother has to leave the child to go to work etc.
Or is disinterested etc.
All can create hypervigilance in a child.
This is the root of “empath” type states. (As I believe it to be in my experience)
There’s more to it of course but most people are really really unaware or in denial.
Also, people dont just undergo “spiritual paths” without trauma involved in their background..
Even if (and perhaps ESPECIALLY if) its unaware/unconscious.
@@erxfav3197 as much i want to categories myself as an Empath, i definitely fall in codependent territories, and i have this "alter" that eill come out of nowhere, as this "alter" definitely Psycho's.....
i think people who try to label themselves as empath, definitely have mental issues, might be depression, anxiety, or others....
normal healthy people don't need to label themselves with empath, and don't need to hide behind fake accounts, cause they don't need anything to hide, Empaths are people who have unhealed childhood trauma....
sorry if i come to blunt and honest....
@@erxfav3197 yes, if we want to healed, the first part is acknowledge our flaws and our trauma, and try to heal from those wounds, or we never be healed.....
we don't need to sacrifice ourself for humanity, ordinay people just do ordinary things, it's okay to be ordinary and spiritual....
I'm CPTSD was fortunate enough to have intensive DBT & EMDR inpatient therapy programs through out the year and they really helped. Cultivating spiritual practise, routine and interdependent relationships has been intrinsic to my recovery
process following the hospital stay.
I am struggling a little at the moment with a friendship right now though. My friend is a big drinker with alot of unprocessed trauma. I have heard the same trauma stories repeatedly over and over, it's like she has nothing else to talk about. I cancelled some very loose plans with her about a week ago and she reacted in a abusive way. I really struggle with conflict as my trauma is from torture level abuse and bullying over a long period of time.
I know I need to detach from this person as it's not a healthy dynamic for me. I even have physical pain the day after I've seen her because I've been tensing so much around her.
I'm pretty sure she's BPD and she can get so ferocious when she's angry. I know I need to walk away to save myself, this talk really helped me realise that
Firstly - you do need to walk away - you cant fix people who arent trying hard to fix themselves xx
Secondly - my son was just just offered those therapies - do you feel they helped?
Thank you for this. I was with a diagnosed BPD guy and it was like nothing I have ever imagined. I should have believed him when he told what kind of a piece of shit he was...I tried to convince him he was wrong...idiot!! I love that this conversation turned into what it did. It's nice to hear from a good sample of society on real opinions. Thank you so much.
@WhatsApp➕❶❼❽❻❽❽❼❼❻❷❽ I must be old and out of the loop. Cannot figure out how to install/use this.
Nice to see you RG. Thanks for all you do with the scenario's and demonstrating how this all unfolds.
What a great seminar. I need a t shirt "Aslan's Not Coming" :) Wonderful Richard. As usual you've furthered the search for betterment, understanding and truth, I'm sorry I ever doubted you, just so many voices on the internet it's hard to figure out what is true.
This is a very interesting seminar. I didn’t know people do these. I’m sure there a lot of value to the group setting as I’ve been through stuff with what I thought was a bpd/narcissist
I didn’t know men dress up in fake tan and flex their muscles to crowds of multiple thousands of men but here we are.
@@captaron I didn’t know RUclips commenters were so jealous of a mans ability to do that to comment online but here we are 🤷🏽♂️
"you will reach a point with the borderline where you say it is them or me - I love you I want to save you, but I'm dying here - it's going have to be me otherwise this tragedy becomes a catastrophe"
I'm definitely getting closer and closer to this point
but unfortunately - I still feel guilty at the thought of leaving
So smart Richard! This one is the best I watched…following for 3-4 month.
Finally! Someone that not only 'gets' it, but can explain it in plain English for the masses. This and Sam Vaknin' s latest video of why Narcissitic abuse hurts so much are the icing on a very poor catalogue out there, of other information. Congratulations Richard. I would chop it off at 50 mins as it's way too long and very few of the questions add value, in my opinion.
The one definition that I really struggle with in regards to BPD is, that everyone assumes their fear is of abandonment. As an adult, we cannot be abandoned! Their fear is not of abandonment, but of LOVE. To obtain love you have to be willing to be vulnerable. You watch a BPD with a child and there is vulnerability and the giving of love (because the child won't reject or judge them).
If you see forums from Borderlines they have a weird tilt on the meaning and understandings and actions of what love looks like to them. They say, I want love, I am lovable, but they have NO definition of what love looks like to them when asked.
I once had a client, who took great pride in smashing her mother's possessions, I said you must really hate your mom. Oh no, she said I love her dearly... her perception was that those actions to her, were congruent with what love looked like.
I've been married to a diagnosed BPD for 38 years... I no longer try to love him, it's like trying to cut your own heart out... You will get so far and then whollop they pull the rug out and sabotage it all. The fear of vulnerability is just way too overwhelming for them. They want to love so desperately, but just can't risk it. Of course, it comes from childhood abandonment. I love the idea that it may be renamed... Emotional disregulation and unavailability would be the perfect title.
The 'looking for a mommy' SO, SO TRUE. But again, they don't 'want' to be mothered, but don't want to take adult accountability either. A really great phrase for a partner of a BPD person... is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Eventually, as I am slowly learning... You stop being damned either way 😉
Thanks again on your great work 😊
Richard you are great i learn a lot from you. Its really very interesting i wish i could attend meetings like this. Well i live in denmark...i do not assume your are ever doing them over here. Please keep posting them ....greetings from denmark
Excellent Richard!
I like the move towards m making BPD och covert narcs the same as emotional disregulated disorder or something like this. They seem to be very very close to eachother and it would make the idea around it would become less confusing.
I have been through this twice first with someone who was very clearly BPD (abandonment terror, entitlement, suicidal ideation etc) and the other time someone that was much more covert, similar but without the suicidal ideation.
Myself has realised that I have a lot of traits from the cluster B but I seem to lack the entitlement and exploitation traits. But the most important things I have heard to get to a point where I can become an adult is:
Toxic is toxic
If it feels wrong it is wrong
If someone is ostentatiously trying to get your attention, be with you, sleep with you etc it is fake - at least it comes from a false premise.
The idea that most of my own problems may be a response to prolonged grief and the idea that the emotional response is artifacts and projected feelings.
All this together allowed me to finally go completely no contract with crazy no 2. Sure, 8 feel sorry for her but there is nothing i can do for her and there is nothing i will get from this relationship as it is clear that she is cluster B in some sense.
As i now went full no contact and have not been allowing myself even to think about her I realize that in none of these two relationships I have actually loved them. I thought I did, but it is at least plausible to think that it was not my feelings. It may have been these artifacts.
Interesting. I have prolonged grief ... What do you mean by ' artifacts?' thank you.
I also wonder if I ever really "loved" or just had the coddpendent attachment to my last ex who was NPD.
Absolutely fantastic stuff Richard, I really enjoyed this thank you 💕
The more I listen to you, Mr Grannon, the more I see the deep bullshit I was raised in and how much work was needed to rise out of it: and, the more grateful I am to have been taught meditation as a child - fully against every adult of my childhood. Yeeehaw, rebellion works.
Excellent presentation Richard! Thank you!
Thanks for posting this Richard. I love these seminars and always learn something from them. Loved the little 🐕in attendance as well.
Bravo. Lights are on.
Incredible description of the borderline experience. I was never diagnosed, but I truly believe that mine would be that of BPD. And my father - he went to Vietnam and saw some horrible things.
Bless you both 🙏
Damn!! It's like you can see into my soul and explain to he shit if each been through perfectly - every time I listen to you!
1:31:10
I used to deal with the same problem.There seem to be two sides of the issue with avoidant communication style.Firstly, it may be our projection caused by our attachment trauma, when people don't paying attention serve as a trigger.Then it's just our culture today with plenty of passive aggression and egocentrism on a daily basis.
I want to throw in something that took me a long time to understand. Avoidance, as brought up by the lady with the gloves and as I believe she might have meant it, is a powerful narcissistic or psychopathic method. It's a modern one. But don't forget that they evolve, just like we all do.
One day I hope you do a seminar in the US, or another one if you've already done it, and I can attend. You've done a lot of good for a lot of people, myself included.
Me too.
@@Floatingaccidentallike Can you imagine if we all went and had to introduce ourselves by our RUclips names? hahaha
@@omarra6781 hilarious. I really needed this today. I have been emotionally abused for 12 yrs. He is nice as a father and provider and helps out.. but when he is jealous he calls me names and looks up phone records and makes up scenarios. . but he is nice otherwise. I am so tired and scared as I have been a stay at home mom. I reached out to Richard on fb..I am nuts but between him Sam Vankin and Dr. Ramini...I'll take any one of them. You get desperate for validation, to know it's not you who is the crazy one. How do you split from someone you love who is hurting you emotionally/ verbally. How do you do it without being the victim and do so with courage? This is me today..
@Mom_B_Salty thanks. I truly hope I can find peace and not give in with the hope. I wish he would change..
@@Floatingaccidentallike It's tough to be in that position and tough to leave. Enlist the help of friends and family. Especially as your kids are learning this behavior. You will have to give up on him changing. He won't, and you'll be paying the price til the end of time. I have to ask, are you reeeaaally nuts, or is he convincing you you are? What if you're simply having a natural reaction to his bad behavior? Like Mom_B_Salty said, I got out, you can too. Many of us have been in similar predicaments. You can do it! :-)
15:29 😳 you dove head first with the avatar of you and mommy in a smooth way ...thank you
Thank you so much for recording this!
Thanks Ritchie for your awesome guidance and skilled delivery
You set the foundation for my healing many years ago, and still love following to gain even more knowledge to help others now
If I may suggest to anyone;
“The Body keeps the Score “ Bessel Van Der Kolk, M.D.
Is vitally important information on Trauma and is minimized here in the US unfortunately ( politics)
Please, refer to chapter 17
I feel
One must acknowledge “ how” one whom is traumatized is “MANANING“
ALL
their different “PARTS”
…the Fact that WE All have different “parts” (including Narcs)
we must “Manage”
is not focused on enough!
This knowledge alone would help many frightened individuals begin to wrangle them “different parts” in, and stop letting one part or 2 primarily “run the show”
…by observing them in action , therefore changing/ neuro plasticity is enabled as well as recovery
This would truly promote more healing in a world that is quickly dismantling
Blessings 🙏
15:54. Wow I'm diagnosed with BPD and PTSD..I had to pause ..I'll come back . This was 🤯 but very impressive & informative
Thank you. Interesting insights.
The lunatic I dealt with for 25 yrs was obsessed with his narc 'mother' his father left when my x was 2 so she trained him to worship her, if mummy wasn't happy no one was happy, it was like they were a couple, very sickening she would flirt with him, they slept in the same bed till he was 18, I have cptsd from putting up with them for 25yrs thankfully he ran off and remarried, apparently his new wife and his 1st wife (mummy) all get along.
Loved this. Thank you
Thank you.
As always to the point, thank you Richard 🙏🏻
Neglect . . . Right now, if my spouse listened to this, he would point me right to the place where you say neglecting your partner is abuse. However, what is left out of that whole equation is what if your partner has been so abusive to you that you have had to withdrawal from them to emotionally protect yourself?
I had to change up our sleeping situation last year due to chronic insomnia. I had asked and asked to do it for years, but had been shut down, and met with contempt anytime I asked. Finally, out of pure exhaustion, I went ahead and did it. Hey, I am an adult, don't I get to make some decisions especially if they affect my health? Anyway, I hadn't meant to put a wall between my spouse and myself, but he became so enraged, that I had to pull back from him - which only enraged him more. In his mind, I owe him intimacy, and he feels he can bully and rage at me, then be nice for a short while, and I should just agree. No, I don't. Throughout this whole ordeal, I have been kind to him, I have listened to him, and I have tried to reconnect with him to basically renew our friendship first before the other stuff. However, months and months of disrespect, name calling, insults, menacing, raging, hitting things, do not equal us knocking boots after a few nice days, which is all he will ever give me before spiraling back down to meanness. I want things to get better, I keep trying, but he has inspired such fear in me that my hands can shake or my teeth chatter in his presence, so I need a prolonged period of him being sweet to me to trust enough to ever let my guard down that far again. I am not a masochist. He just doesn't get it, and rages more. He's doing the exact opposite of what he needs to do, but he feels he is in control, and it is his way or the highway. At this point, I am trying to find the exit ramp, but if he could have just valued my feelings a little bit, it would never have had to be this way. :(
I feel like I deal with this every day and it's not good for my well being or my daughter. If I could get us out of here I would in a heartbeat.
@@framclean7910 while I understand where you are going with this, it's still quite insensitive. Leaving toxic relationships are complicated. Some with financial implications, physical danger (murder is not unheard of when trying to leave), custody of children, etc.
My attempts to leave has incurred legal abuse with the abuser trying to take my child from me. Still fighting. Please be kind to those who are working through and trying to make sense of the situation.
@@daughter_of_the_king I love how you expressed your understanding at the beginning of this. Also, I'm in a similar boat. I really really feel for you going through that and I wish you all the best.
@@blakejackson7193 thanks Blake. We all learn through experiences. I once didn't get it either and wondered aloud why people stayed in such relationships. Only when I was in the same situation broken, confused, scared, with all my confidence shattered did I understand. It wasn't as simple as I once thought.
I hope that you see light at the end of the tunnel soon and are free.
Really helpful! Thank you Richard.
Thank you so much for this, Richard, it was wonderful. It's healing just to hear your videos, and this one with the input from the audience members (who are wonderful).
Thank you, this really helps me a lot! :)
@WhatsApp➕①⑦⑧⑥⑧⑧⑦⑦⑥②⑧ Not sure if you are the real Richard Grannon or an imposter - I looked at your channel and it has zero content.
Richard i have a few ❓❓
1. Does a mother with BPD rear a child with the same or just give her CPTSD?
2. Do NPDs tend to gravitate to/attract BPDs?
3. How does someone with prolonged grief (suicide loss of my son) and CPTSD heal from Narcissistic abuse? IKR!! 😳😩
Really interesting, come away listening to this with a lot to think about and reflect. Understand a bit more now re bpd.
Sam is brilliant, would like to meet him or Richard. Have a great case study for them.
This was so helpful. I’d love to attend one of these
This topic is hot, but so is he 💪🏼😂
So my Ex who I’m certain has BPD would constantly say she felt like a burden and worried non stop about me cheating on her. I was crazy about her, why would I do that? She was convinced I’d leave her. To the point she was driving me away. The harder I hung in the more she pushed me away. Eventually I was completely exhausted and was pulling back, and she was like “See! Told Ya!” Like I didn’t stand a chance. Total double bind. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Then it’s like she’d go to totally hating me. Like not indifferent, HATE. Then I’m trying to repair my reputation and it’s okay again. Only to repeat over and over. It was completely insane. Like trying to rope the wind
My ex would say the worst things, pushing me completely away then act so put off that I couldn’t take it. I would beg him not to speak to me in a demeaning way so that I could continue with him. He could not stop so then I would go silent, he would then say I was abandoning him. So, I understand the damn if you do and damn if you don’t- very well. I get this physical response in my heart when thinking about those times he would go on and on then act surprised when he had pushed me completely away.
@@Calmerthanyouare17 It’s a self fulfilling prophecy right? They drive people away, and then claim you’ve abandoned them. Food for thought though. Only Children and Pets are abandoned. Adults aren’t abandoned, they’re just not included in your future. Cheers :)
19 years not a happy birthday wish, Christmas present or anniversary gift.
my favourite book on children is “Dibs” in search of self
I have been diagnosed as BPD and just as a back ground I was also raised up by the majority of females and very Lil male involvement
An excellent talk, Richard. Thank you.
Will send you some info on the Power Threat Meaning Framework by Dr Lucy Johnstone as it may fit well with your thoughts on trauma-based dysregulation as opposed to diagnoses of 'mental ill health'. This work focuses on three ideas; who had power over you (typically in childhood); what threat did you face?; what meaning did you formulate in order to survive?
All the best while you take a break dear Richard. Sending best wishes. 🤗
Yep grey rock worked for me...thank goodness
I am so appreciative that I happen to catch this! So much applied to all I have dealt with, but never quite understood ‘WTFRICK’ was actually going on! It is never too late to ‘start all over’ KNOWING all that I have recently learned from you! All will lead me to a much Happier.. ‘next time around’ if that EVER were to happen! Thank you So much, as always! 🌸💐
CindyluRN,You are beautiful 🌹,You don’t need a narcissist in your life!
@@jackpetersen7545
Do you think the majority of narcissists are self aware?
Never been diagnosed as anything other than major depressive disorder, but that insight on BPD and flipping the switch to psychopath made me reflect on some relationships. I’ve definitely had that mindset redrum after a breakup with guys I couldn’t stand during the relationship. 😅
The woman discussing the ‘energy crisis’ in relationship is accurate today, especially in the dating culture and online dating. Theses days, many people are leaving the dating apps because of this idea.
I actually found the attachment theory really helpful piece in understanding...the covert.
Bpd is not vulnerable narcissism
Awesome lecture 👍👍👍👍 brilliant explanations that are very relatable to the psychology layman.
Thank you for this clarification!
And you are brilliant!
Chaos=Potential. Universe started with a chaotic soup of quantum fluctuations, pure chaos. So yes, chinease did see that, and Yin-Yang expresses that. Order vs chaos. Stagnation vs change. Realization vs potential. Men vs women.
I'm in love whit the bicycle chick already.
Thanks Richard, top man, wish I could have been there but working and I wouldn’t bum rush the stage for a hug 😉
Definitely support psychiatric/neurologic medical treatment for kiddos. When Jordan Peterson, Granon, or any non-medical therapist advises against medication, please question that! There seems to be a helpful argument in support for changing the brain chemistry in young people who are not responsive to usual counseling. "Balancing" brain chemistry might or might not be possible, but that's not the issue or goal. But CHANGING it can save, and has saved lives.
I used to think that the high school boys who came to class feeling very sleepy were over drugged. They indeed were not. Rather, these young men were unable to sleep at night! It left them insatiably exhausted. I think it's extremely important to find out what is needed to save these kids without traumatizing them further. So as much as I deeply appreciate Richard here, I think that resorting to mediTation and possibly leave out mediCation---well, that possibly is a dangerous choice for many mentally ill young people.
And then, I will apologize now if I misunderstood Richard in any way. This is for the most part, for me, an outstanding presentation! Richard is among the few very knowledgeable in this area of human behavior and mind. 🧡🕊
39:26, great JP impersonation! 😂
Great impression of Jordan Peterson !👍
Really interesting, thank you 🙏
Yep she nailed it
43:20 for what it's worth, though I can see how someone looking through a narrow lens would see it that way, it isn't happening just in the west. Lots of eastern cultures have had genderless/third gender/postgender practices for ages. Look up Hirja in South Asia. Ancient Egypt had three genders (tai [male], sḫt ["sekhet"] and hmt [female]). Waria in Indonesia, the list goes on for anyone who would like to learn more.
The road to hell is paved with good intention.
This is interesting! I was diagnosed with BPD but my case of it isn't severe as others or I was told that! I do Dialectical Behavior Therapy and see a therapist and I'm constantly working on myself! I'm curious to know what Richard thinks about the Subtypes of BPD!
I do understand what it feels like to deal with someone who also has BPD! I tried to be there for her but she NEVER/REFUSED to got/get help. I tried helping and being a good friend to her but it got too exhausting! When I told her I needed space and made boundaries she freaked out and attacked me horrifically online and blocked me! I felt awful I couldn't help her but I couldn't! I tried but she just wouldn't get help and I'm not a therapist! ☹️ She also tried destroying friendships with others out of fear of me leaving! My ex-friendship with her really helps me stay in therapy and be a better person!
What Richard said that he doesn't think if you lack of entitlement and exploitation then chances are you don't have BPD surprised me! I was diagnosed with BPD after I tried killing myself and because my mom emotionally/verbally abused me my whole life! Now I wonder whether I have C-PTSD or not after what Richard said!
I can relate and just had the same questions! No entitlement or exploitative behavior.. but all the other traits. So is that CPTSD from the childhood abuse?
@@blondiek35 I wonder now too! I've seen 5 psychiatrists and 4 out 5 only diagnosed me with major depression, anxiety disorder, panic disorder and PTSD! It was the last one that diagnosed me with BPD after I nearly killed myself...It seems like psychiatrists now just diagnose without really looking into things which is dangerous!
Infants have fixed focus vision at 12 to 18 inches
All of this is cured only by going to the throne. One word for Narccism= Jezebel spirit. Not much to it at all. God heals!!!
people with BPD seem to evoke compassion naturally in other people - and that's why you have to be very careful not to get caught by the emotional hook called: compassion