Anne Boleyn: Dispelling the Myths | Not Just the Tudors
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- There are so many myths about Anne Boleyn - among them that she had six fingers, that she was a murderess, even that she was Henry VIII's own daughter. In this episode of Not Just the Tudors, released on 19 May to mark the anniversary of the day of Anne Boleyn's execution in 1536, Professor Suzannah Lipscomb sets out to bust some myths with Natalie Grueninger, founder and editor of the On the Tudor Trail website and author of In the Footsteps of Anne Boleyn.
Utterly brilliant podcast will be listening to more, I got told off by my history teacher at school when we had to list our favourite people from history for homework and I put down Elizabeth Woodville, Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn. I was told to redo my homework and not include Anne Boleyn I refused and got a week of detentions, my parents ended up going up to the school and I didn't have to do detention
That's absolutely shocking. Teachers should be encouraging pupils to think critically for themselves, look at the evidence and draw their own conclusions, not just write what they are told!!
@@catherineball5071it would have made so much more sense to have asked the student to justify her selection. Now, you have the ingredients for an excellent discussion.
People have publish so much so called history clap trap on youtube. Its wonderful to hear a properly researched podcast.
Really glad i stumbled on this podcast with the amazing Professor Suzanne Lipscombe, big fan. I also have a signed copy of In the footsteps of Anne Boleyn. Brilliant, beautifully written account of her life.
This really disturbs me that yeoman warders are telling visitors things that are incorrect. Why? It's just not right.
I love that I came across this. I have always been a fan of Anne and love finding accurate information.
I'm a big Tudor history follower. Regarding Anne's Ladies who accompanied her to the scaffold. Many years ago, I read, but I can't remember which book or author it was. That after Anne's trial and the verdict of guilty, that her Ladies were changed to Ladies who Anne favoured. And they were the young ladies who served Anne on her execution scaffold.
The 19th of May is also Harry and Meghans wedding day.
@@Janellabelleand what a terrible idea that was. A red headed Henry/Harry marries a dark haired woman considered unusual to marry into the royal family, on the anniversary of Anne’s beheading, in the church where Henry VIII is buried. Not exactly a good omen to have so many connections to one of the most tragic, doomed marriages in English history.
Good afternoon from the SF Bay Area. Another great podcast filled with really insightful information. Thank you, Ladies.
Every one talks as if Anne Boleyn had a choice, she didn't. The king saw her, he wanted her, he took her. She was in love with Henry Percy. If I go by other men of power he saw this or heard of it and his thought was why should Henry Percy have what the king did not. Henry the VIII wanted to possess their love and he took it. It's what men of power do, they take.
She could have used her supposed intellect to negotiate a good parting deal. Another mistress got a wedding payout based on a promise he had made.
Anne as pawn is inconsistent with her demand that Henry marry her and her anger at the Cardinal for not obtaining the Pope’s permission for Henry to divorce his wife Queen Katherine . Also not consistent with Henry seeing, wanting, and taking Anne because he didn’t use her as a mistress - his Tudor claim to the throne was tenuous and he needed an heir to avoid more years of civil war (restarting the wars of the roses)
She said no for six years
She said no for six years
@@reginawhitlock4227 that's what kept him coming back.
Great podcast. I am so glad your have done the work to present her real life. Time to put aside the old untruths and scandals and tell the real story as best that can be uncovered! Thank you so much!
Loved this poscast. Thank you!
👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ I love that I came across this!!❤💯Great podcast. Please tell the real story of Katherin Howard. Loved this poscast. Thank you!
I've written many responses to videos and podcasts about Anne Boleyn and I'm very happy to see and hear this debunking of the overlay that has been scurrilously attached to this lady. I'm a direct descendant of Mary Boleyn in fact, my middle name is Carey so I must admit bias regarding a woman who is my Great Aunt Anne (17 times, but who's counting.) I've read and watched so much about her and her sister over the years and though I know a bit, it's only enough to make me dilettante. That being said, the overall impression I walk away with is that Anne had no desire at all to be Henry's mistress and never his wife. She tried to put him off for seven years and saddled him with the demand of a legal marriage, blessed by the Pope. Could it be that she made these demands because she knew two things: one that the probability of Henry's obtaining dispensation was almost at nought and two, that she knew better than to invite this kind of onerous and precarious flirtation. How is it possible, Lady Rochford aside, for Anne to have taken all these lovers? She was surrounded 24/7 by her ladies without privacy of any sort. Again Rochford aside (and she deserves her own enquiry- I think she was just plain crazy and self-destructive), If she did indeed joke about the King's death it amazes me the enormous mountain that was made of such a small mole hill. Considering the time and circumstances of Anne's life, it was careless of her but no more than that. Having your head chopped off for making a little joke seems rather extreme. And let us not forget, Henry was already very ill, when he married Anne, enough, it is said, that one could smell his corpulent body as he approached. She had three years, only three years, to bear a son. The real truth has carried forward to my parent's generation in full bloom, and is still present today, that an intelligent woman is unwanted and unwelcome as a wife. Ask Donald Trump or Adolf Hitler. "Leaders of the world should only marry a stupid woman. The other sort are more trouble than they are worth." My mother-in-law, born in 1906, asked her fiance as they walked into the jewellery store to pick up her ring, whether he was certain he wished to marry a Junior Phi Beta Kappa from Vassar. In other words, she was asking his permission to be intelligent. My own disaster of a marriage came because of my own scholarship. Henry VIII wanted a simpering, compliant, stupid brood mare for a wife, not Anne Boleyn.
Henry did to Anne Boleyn what he later did to Catherine Parr. She wanted Henry Percy originally Henry VIII made sure Anne could not have Henry Percy then basically said Anne think of all I could give you and she still tried to hold Henry off by saying No only if you make me QUEEN because she truly thought there was no way it would happen. I truly believe that's why she gave him that option. King's didn't divorce & she thought that would be that. Not that he would hound her & pursue her to the end. Then with Catherine Parr she too wanted to marry someone else but Henry VIII eye fell upon her there is even a letter from Catherine to Thomas Seymour stating I must end our relationship for our King has set his sights upon me and I want no harm to come upon you. Although after Henry died she did marry Thomas Seymour. I don't think Anne realized by giving Henry an ultimatum she was dangling herself like a tasty toy or treat.
You don't think Anne was manipulative and scheming? I think the evidence shows that once interest was expressed she determined that she would not be a mistress but a wife and schemed and plotted her way to meet that end. She was in it for the long game and keeping Henry on the hook, pulled him away from Catherine. She represented everything Catherine no longer was and assured him of sons. The incest and adultery charges are nonsense, that was Cromwell's ax to grind and in the end he found an ax for himself
You are presuming this ‘scheming’ because you know that’s what Henry actually did, but how would Anne have known that Henry would even consider her for a wife and queen? There was no precident for a married king to annul his marriage to marry a non royal woman. The idea would have seemed absurd and frankly impossible to even Anne herself, which is why when it turned out that’s what Henry decided to, it was so scandalous. Henry asked Anne to be his mistress, then his sole mistress, and finally proposed after a year of her diplomatically trying to reject him. It couldn’t have looked to promising to get an offer of marriage when the king is offering everything but for over a year. Isn’t it far more likely that Anne genuinely had no interest in Henry’s advances and tried to discourage him as gently and as safely as she could? I think we need to remember it’s Henry with the power here, not Anne. In modern times, we’d call this sexual harrassment. I think was a woman who knew her worth, had genuine scruples and convictions and didn’t want to be a mistress like her sister and had no idea the king would decide to marry her. Once he did propose, sure, she definitely involved herself in the ‘Great Matter’ and may have even partially supplied the arguement used to justify it. But a schemer from the start? No.
@graphiquejack She also retreated from court numerous times to her family home while he pursued her, but he still pressured her even there. Anne also was also blocked from a love match marriage by King Henry and the Father of the potential groom. It is thought this was bc both had been promised to another by their parents, and without it completely being dissolved it was maybe just political blocking at that time. Either way her arranged marriage fell through, but we do not know if this was before or after the blocking of her love match. So some debate Henry had it blocked to his own feelings. Most credible historians, believe it was political though. It was only a few years later though he did take notice and start his pursuit. She had zero intent or thought that she could or would be able to replace the Queen. Look at what it took for it to happen at all! A woman highly intelligent and educated in court and royal life would have known this, and never have thought to even try this. What happened is her response over quite a time of Henry's pursuit. So I agree 100 percent with you.
She had no reason to believe that becoming his wife was even a possibility. She didn't want to be his mistress, that doesn't mean she plotted or manipulated anything. It means he upon realizing she wouldnt become his mistress, plotted some way to rid himself of his wife, something unheard of at that time.
You’re not very bright nor have you studied Tudor history and it shows
I think Anne did some manipulating. I think she could have gone to Catherine and been sent away. Something happened to make Anne think she was destined to be the mother of a Tudor prince. I think she had it in her mind that she was going to be a great reformer.
When I heard you ladies discussing Anne's sexual specialized skills acquired during her time in the French court reminded me of a specific scene in The Crown during a conversation between Winston Churchill and Prince Albert's wife concerning Edward and Wallis....Winston: What hold does she have over him? Elizabeth: Apparently certain skills she learned while spending time in Shanghai...I've long wondered what the hell Wallis was always remarked about was her "striking beauty and high fashion" I am an American and my family hasn't been here long at all but, I always found trouble around the relationship aside from Wallis being a divorcee. I think I always suspected connections with the Nazi party...which was proven when the world intelligence papers were released after XX amount of years following their death. The MI5 and the FBI and CIA had confirmed reports of the two as they were kept under constant scrutiny. On the other hand...Anne Boleyn has always fascinated me.
Sorry....it was The King's Speech.
Anne was almost certainly a virgin when she left France for England; Queen Claude expected her ladies to be chaste.
That damned letter to her father has caused a lot of other myths, namely when she was born, whether she was in Margaret of Austria’s court or actually her nursery, and which ‘queen’ she was talking about serving. My belief based on other evidence is that she was born around 1507, that she therefore was about six when she went to the Low Countries and was brought to the royal nursery, where she could be educated among Margaret’s nieces. The ‘queen’ Anne is talking about is almost certainly Margaret herself, whom she may not have actually met at the time she wrote the letter. Technically Margaret wasn’t a queen, I know, but the letter was full of other errors… perhaps Anne didn’t know the right word for Margaret’s title in French and just callled her ‘Queen’ as a title of prestige. It would be years before she would be expected to meet Katherine of Aragon, as her father intended her to stay with Margaret’s entourage for some time. I really have no idea how this 1501 birthdate became accepted as probable fact. For centuries, historians have assumed 1507 because of other source documents that hint or specify Anne’s age, including at least one or two that say she was ‘not yet 29’ when she was executed. 1507 also makes more sense when Anne is called ‘forward’ for her ‘young’ age, but the letter in question is always described as having a poor grasp of the French language and sloppy penmanship… and this is the brilliant Anne Boleyn at age 12 or so… the girl who was presumedly so promising she was preferred over her elder sister for this amazing opportunity? I’m not buying it. I’m also not buying that Henry would be pursuing and proposing to a mature woman of 25-26 when an overriding concern for him was for her to provide an heir. By Tudor times, this is getting pretty late to be marrying someone and a good chunk of her time when she would be likely to have children was already gone, even more when we consider the delays before they could marry cost them another 6 or so years without producing children. So he married a woman in her early thirties when he needs an heir? Nah.. it doesn’t make sense. Historians need to apply some logic here and throw away this rubbish that she was considerably older than was previously believed.
Eric Ives says that there is no way Margaret would have taken a girl under 12, but from her phrase “In spite of her young age” she may have been 10 or 11. She was almost certainly not in primary school.
I'm American, and she is my idol. She was so plucky and strong, and she was placed in an untenable position. Women were chattel in those days. There is no accounting for Henry's madness, and she suffered for it and died for it. He changed the world for her, threw off the "Defender of the Faith" title, and a wife who adored him for 24 years, even until death. I hope that Henry's head injury is what changed him. It is terrible to think that someone who could love so completely could cast her off within "1,000 days." She was a great lady. She paved the way for so many ladies, and she gave birth to the daughter who would eclipse the prince Henry longed for. I love that Elizabeth II was such a great and unforgettable ruler that was commensurate with her namesake. I am so excited to have found this channel and to write to ladies that are such allies of Anne!
I think Richard Burton was the consummate Henry, Natalie Dormer is my forever Anne, she acts with her eyes. I only wish they would have given her dark contacts. And Rachel Skarsgard l, from Reign, is my favorite Elizabeth I.
I would choose Robert Shaw as Henry and Genevieve Bujold as Anne. One actress whom I think would have made a wonderful Anne Boleyn is Rashida Jones- olive skin, oval face, small breasts.
I love the way they nonchalantly added what most of us were thinking: oral sex and kept on their merry way
This was brilliant! 💜💜💜👏👏👏
I want to sign up for the course!! Where/when can we do so?
God Bless Anne Boleyn, and all the enemies she had to deal with. She endured 7 years of scandal while waiting for Henry.. and was pious and nit giving away her body and self.. for 7 years..
Jane Seymour waited a whopping 6 months???
and spent months turning Henry against Anne.. and yet history deems Jane as innocent.. HA!
Jane was a homewrecker and walked over Annes grave to marry Henry.. people often forget that
had Jane had a daughter… or daughters
.. She would have been headless soon after
Following your logic Anne was also a homewrecker. She wasn't a victim but a player in a high stakes game of power. Ultimately she lost. If anything, she helped set the precedent for the King discarding his consort, and not to her advantage.
I think both Anne and Jane were very religious women whose views of Christian morality made them unwilling to be Henry’s mistresses.
I feel sorry for Anne...but ....nobody can find happyness over other"s misery...
She never thougt in Catherine of Aragon...she even was thriiled with her death..
I feel sorry for Anne but sorrier for Catherine. Anne did not play her hand intelligently.
Says Phillipa Gregory. I imagine Anne was relieved when Catherine passed. I bet Henry's mood changed dramatically, which would have changed Anne's. I mean, after 7 years, she had to fall in love with a King who seemed to adore her. She ran from him as much as she could in the beginning.
Really great podcast
St Marys Erwarton is my local church. The plaque is still there,, the organ too though the organ no longer works
She was not even at the castles she was listed as being present at during this nonsense "adultery" .
Parallels to Princess Di are uncanny: she also came from a very aristocratic family & was pursued by him! Plus; she has been accused of things she didn't do:(
I'm watching this on the 19th of may RIP anne Boleyn ❤
This is very eye-opening; how can such a famous woman have such scanty evidence left of her existence:( Did Henry have it all destroyed! Think of Princess Di...do we really know for sure where her remains are or how she is being rewritten in historical archives??
Actually the Bible clearly says Thou shalt not commit adultery.
How much history, HERstory, was lost in movies?
Men wrote the story. Women researchers, historians have driven factual Anne.
I've watched a lot of Henry VIII movies. I'm old! 😂😂
But up there on top is the 1933 The Private Life of Henry VIII with Charles Laughton. Anne of Cleves, played by Elsa Lancaster. In a card game, she's beating the pants off him because they are also betting. He has to send to the treasury bc "Anne" won't play further until he has. "You could chop my head off, I'd never get the money!"
It's a brilliant part of the movie. Elsa! 💕
I am an actor that played two parts in every film or TV series. I was the the boyfriend of the cast daughter with a deep voice, in a tank top or shirtless, I was comedic relief...and my hair was left naturally which is still bright blond surfer boy hair...just wild mop of crazy blond guys hair...or if I used my natural accent which is slightly British my hair was slicked down, I'd play the rich rakish asshxole but, I'm very protective of my friends and I was the "damaged bad boy" Charles Laughton was a brilliant actor...he often played the most despicable characters...my favorite film is an obscure odd film but, it's on youtube i urge anyone to watch it. The Devil And The Deep starring Tallulah Bankhead, Charles Laughton, Cary Grant and Gary Cooper. Laughton played a cruel, despicable prick that played out his schemes by painting his wife as a shedevil and he was a saintly good husband suffering the burden of Tallulah...the best scene is in the first 5 minutes where a table of people gossip about Tallulah making horrible scandal rumor and only one guy questioned what did she do...they said we don't don't what she does but, she's horrible....Tallulah witnessed this scene and addresses each person regarding how they want to punish her....and she does it calmly, eloquently, gracefully, non dramatically and walks away without ceremony.
The Private Life of Henry VIII is hilarious
Have to take issue with the idea that Henry and Anne thought they could make England better.
I have NEVER seen anything in any account if Henry 's life or reign that suggests he ever gave the slightest thought to anything but his own desires!
One of the Holbien sketches shows a puffy neck. I am wondering if Anne had swollen glands or something. That might be where the rumor ofvthe wen comes from.
She was likely pregnant at that.
I loved how yall say maybe Anne loved Katherine...lol um, she said she rather her and Mary be hung. I doubt thats love of any kind. She was spiteful to her and Mary if anything. Seemed to be a petty woman's jealousy. Which we've all had other women who started as "nice" to us do...
Regarding Chapuys’ descriptions of Anne’s threats to Catherine and Mary, someone (I forget whom) once asked the question, “If Anne really wanted to murder Catherine and Mary, would she have announced that to the whole court?”
I didn't quite understand the name of the church in Norfolk, where Ann Boleyn may actually be buried?? Sounded like Sal Church???
Cool event
It's apparent that you are both fans of Anne Boleyn and I think you do a valiant job at trying to restore her reputation, the problem I have with this video, is that you are not offering any proof for your assumptions that she was pious, devout, strongly wished to create a better Britain, not overtly sexual, not the pursuer...
Did Annalyn really find Jane Seymour sitting on her husband‘s lap??
Ok.. heres one for you.. I am a descendant of Henry via an illegitimate daughter. He gave the girl to my other grandfather who was his tailor.. who then married her to his son.. but meanwhile.. he kills anne for the affair with my other grandpa Thomas Wyatt
may 19th to mark the anniversary of the day anne boleyn's execution in 1536. god bless anne. god bless her heart and soul. i have always loved anne boleyn. i love her. she is my heroine. anne is my hero. she is my shero. may 19th. god bless her.
May 19 is also harry and meghans wedding day lol
I find it extraordinary that the yeoman warders at the Tower are telling mistruths in their tour talks! Not only about where Anne entered the Tower but also about the location of her execution. Surely they should be able to be relied on to be a source of facts, not myths and speculation. I'm also really unimpressed that the glass cushion on the memorial on Tower Green is damaged! I wrote to complain about this after my last visit (as I think it's disrespectful to those on the memorial) and they didn't even pay me the courtesy of replying to my email! Who is running this place!?
Unfortunately, many historians aren't any better. Man of them are biased, sexist, or are anti-Anne Boleyn. It is "historians" that have made her look like this promiscuous, controversial, vindictive woman.
They probably got a ton of emails every day. It would be nice to repair the glass cushion.
Yet you say Jane Seymour played "the same GAME" with Henry to become his Queen as Anne did, in other shows you've done. Is it that you think of Anne as just a Saint but Jane a devil? Anne was known as the Great Whore, what if she was? Why is that part of her life and personality forbidden to discuss?
I'm not an expert, but my assumption is that Anne was vilified while Jane was basically turned into a Saint for the same behavior. Jane followed Anne's playbook, and it worked. Realistically, they both only had 2 choices. Go for the crown or become a mistress, and hope that he tires of you soon and doesn't totally ruin your reputation and prospects for marriage. Unlike a lot of his mistresses who were married, they were both unwed. In a time where a woman's value was marked only by obedience to their husband and male family members and their ability to breed.
They called her the Great Whore because of her connection with Henry, and their love for Catherine. Not to mention the Pope wasn't her fan, nor was Charles V.
MYTH: People referring to her as Anne “of a thousand days”. Like she reigned that long. Do the math. It’s 1,084. Not even close.
How did you come to the number, 1,084?
@@wcfheadshots240 She was crowned Queen June 1, 1533. She was executed May 19, 1536. There are online calendars you can use to put in the two dates and see how many days that is in between. Thus 1,084.
That's fairly close. Allow for poetic license!
😊😊😊😊@@CronesBones
Anne of A Thousand and Eighty-Four Days would be too long for a marquee.