These are the most fun videos to make by far, but also the most time consuming. Thanks for watching all of you that have been here from the beginning, I really appreciate it!
I used to weld the base plates to these poles. 3/32" dual shield fluxcore wire 100% co2. The poles sit horizontal on powered trunnions you control the rotation with a foot pedal or a button on your torch lead. The pole is beveled where it is welded to the base plate. The base plate is not beveled. There's a backing bar that is welded to the inside of the pole then the base plate is fit up and tacked to that. Bases were preheated before welding then checked also heated while welding to maintain a specific temperature range. The pole thickness depending on diameter of pole ranged from 3/16 inch to 1 inch. The diameter of the pole ranged from 10 inches or so to 12 feet. Smaller poles can be 8 sided but most were 12 sided. The poles are made of 2 six sided halves that are sub arc machine welded together. The poles are in 40 foot sections and fit up in the field with slip joints . The base plates ranged from 1.5 inch to 6 inch thick and most have a hole cut out of the center some do not. Most of the bigger poles base plates had at least 12 passes but usually more. All welds were checked visually and with ultra sonic test equipment multiple times. They would also take some poles outside behind the manufacturing plant and destructively test them by attaching a large cable system to the top of the pole with the base bolted to the ground and pull it over untill it failed.
Just to add, he was asking about the depth of the footer. I'm a lineman and have worked them out after the foundation guys come through and pour all of them, but some the the ones we did were 40-60 deep.
Another reason is if water does somehow get inside were to build up and air temps get down below freezing, that pole would split and quite possibly fail. A few years ago a ski lift tower collected enough water inside froze and failed I can't remember where though.
the opposite is true. if a steel weldement is completely sealed it will only rust internally until all the oxygen is consumed by the oxidation process. Many bridge beams are made this way with no need to paint or coat the inside.
@@quartertwenty484Think you are correct. You either want it airtight (and pressure tested) or properly drained. Even a small pin hole in a large volume like that and it will suck in moist air during hot-cold cycles. The moisture condensate during the cold cycle and gets trapped inside, slowly filling it with water.
Hands down, I watch every video you post, in my opinion, I have yet to be disappointed!!! I do Mig production welding for a living, never touch a Tig machine nor do I have a desire to weld aluminum but I find your content intriguing. The knowledge you share is priceless. You also can have me laughing. You can be a riot! Thanks for the videos!!!
I love these videos. It gives a reasonable chance for someone like me to send in a legitimate question and have it answered by someone far more experienced than I. Excellent videos as always Aaron
I used to build these towers. (Sabre Industries) in the 8 years I worked there i have never seen one inserted into the base and welded onto the back side. They have ALL been welded directly to the base.
I know a few people who weld those towers at Valmont in TN. I've done big, stacked welds like that on excavator buckets. Very Zen. I've also had few factory jobs where I fabricated and welded structural parts for heavy machinery. All industrial MIG. Now I'm just welding in my garage for fun with a Fronius stick welder.
I think it's great that you take the time to respond in this fashion. Regarding the grounding through a "bearing" type situation, we have a part we commonly have to repair weld that involves exactly that situation. The weld area itself would be the ideal clamping point but alas the ground itself would become a part of the fillet. It's a large cast white iron hinge that we use 7014 on. As long as the hinge has some weight on it the ground path does ok. If trying to repair the hinge while set up in a vice- that's when we've had problems with the hinge pin welding itself to the hinge leaf.
I can think of two good reasons to cut the center out of the flange. 1. It locates the flange on the column without the need for any fixtures. 2. That "waste" cut out of the center might have value to them either to be sold or used as a flange for a smaller tower. That's big chunk of 4" steel that would cost a fair bit of change if you needed to buy a piece that size. If space allows for it, a purely fillet welded assembly like the one shown it's actually stronger than one where bevels were cut if you use that same amount of weld because it gives the joint a bigger footprint that makes it inherently stronger on anything but purely tensional loads while maintaining the same tension strength.
Old school here, 41 yrs in the business, most of the time, bevel or not, comes down to the wps. Read the symbols, if not called out, ask for a variance or make sure they didn't miss it. If left to me, I've always determined whether to bevel by how much space iam dealing with, a big bevel saves some space outside of the part, if I have room, I might not bevel. Those base plates are cutout for drainage to make sure the tube doesn't freeze and crack. The inner plate is to keep visitors from making a home in there, the inner plate is most likely stitched and or small relief cuts to let moisture out.
@JeremyWeiler-v9x Well said, Jeremy. One of the most important takeaways from your comment is, "ask for a variance". Most welders don't realize they can do that. If you think something isn't clear or could be done better/more efficient, feel free to ask questions. Blueprints are not set in stone. Quite often the drawings are wrong for what should actually be done to achieve making the final product. A large percentage of "engineers" have very little real world welding experience.
@6061 exactly, if you don't like what you see or have questions always ask, you're most likely dealing with an engineer that is an "expert" in everything, and we all know how that goes.! Always more than one way! I drive that home to my apprentices daily, i want them to learn to deal with things like we're talking about, and develop their own ways. Its the end product counts, the in between not so much as long as it's done correctly!
@@6061 100%. I have never actually asked for a variance though (didn't know it was a thing). I generally just tell the engineer he's whacked & tell him how it needs to be. I had an alum part last week typical "T' joint bracket for a motor. It's 1/2" 6061. He wanted a 1/16" weld on one side and a 1/8" weld on the other. I had to inform him that you don't just pick a size... Customer is never right...
Subbed for years now, but that "roadtrip" intro video was the best thing I've seen in ages on u tubby.... Thanks! OMGS the fence... Can't quit laughing everytime I think of it...
I usually use a piece of cardboard as a non-conductive insulator beneath my computer or phone on the welding table. I'm just trying to play it safe. Thanks for your informative videos.
Love the videos, Aaron. I guess all that matters is the parts are built to the specs on the print. It's the enginerds job to decide the why and how. It's the Welders' job to complete that task.
I have inspected hundreds of these structures. The joint you are looking at is a CJP welded with SAW with a backer. And yes, welded to the top of the base plate. Weather they have bare weathering steel or are galvanized they are welded the same but inspected diffrently.
I like em all Aaron . The road trip was funny as hell . lol Interesting how they finished the flange on that tower . As for that lifting assy, it looked like about ten cover welds alone, I wouldn't doubt it's well over thirty passes . Yeah, people need to try a series like that, they'll respect SMAW a lot more . lol Anyway, another great video . :)
For the tower bases you might be on to something with the weight savings, it could also be a convenience item to weld on the underside of that plate as far as fixturing goes. With a hole in the plate you can press the base onto the tower and then the tower and base plate are fixed together when it goes to the welding area and the welding are doesn't have to worry about two parts anymore.... They may also be able to make the connection with less welding and less welding material too.
I'm just a metal freak.... you know Shiney..... I have a small blacksmithing shop and I work in a machine shop as a saw man and finisher. I love cuttin' 6061, brass , copper. I have a love hate relationship with titanium and 2055 lithium 7075. Love your content!!
My fave weld brain. I have 1,000 + hours on TIG (non-commercial), 70YO and cranking till the end. While it's always "horses for courses" I learn quite a few things from you. You made me change my style of filler rod "push" to "dime stack.. Trying to get my head around your "Button"..........soon. Run a couple of Miller Dynasty 350's like yours. Oldies BUT a Great machine. Thanks for your efforts, greatly appreciated. Davo from "Oz" 🦘🦘🦘🦘
I was fortunate this past year to watch helicopter crews replace all the high voltage lines from Perry Nuclear Plant into our county. The helicopter temporary base of operations was about 1 mile from our house. They'd haul the guys back and forth on a ladder dangling from a cable. Some of the time they were working in the early spring it was maybe low 30s all day long but they were still flying through the air at maybe 60-80 mph. They hooked up wheel mounts for the line to every single pole, then pulled the new lines. I even got some video of the wheels spinning but I didn't find the terminal location; I was curious how they wound up the old wire and pulled the new wire. Then they went back and removed all the wheel contraptions. It was one of the most impressive things I've seen in my life. It maybe took a day or two for each line. Where I live the towers are built on concrete post foundations, which they sometimes replace in-situ... Maybe when the bedrock is close to the surface they can use those posts like in your video? I'm not sure why they'd choose one or the other. That business must be pretty interesting.
I like all of your videos I find them very interesting and lots of information just like that tower. I would have bet it would be a full plate thanks for all of your hard work I do appreciate it 👍
They're installing a bunch of monopoles out near my place. The foundations are huge piles with rebar cages the full depth and an additiinal assembly with two rings supporting the large studs, twice as tall as it is wide. Very similar to wind turbine foundations.
one explanation that makes sense from an engineering standpoint (other that weight and less money in material) is that you don't have as big a jump in stiffness from one part to another wich acts as a stress riser that could influence the fatigue calcs. (its probably material savings though)
I've seen those towers up close and being shipped on trucks. All the ones I've seen in person at angles I could verify were hollow on the base with stacks of weld just like you showed.
Here is what I hope is a clear enough explanation: Case 1 -Post welded to 3" solid plate: The post provides a torque arm that wants to rotate around the base of the post and the plate. The torque is the force applied at the end of the post multiplied by the length. The weld must resist the entirety of this torque or the post will rip free of the bottom plate. Case 2 - Post through 3" plate welded top and bottom. In this case the torque on the post is identical and the point of rotation is still about the top of the plate weld, but you now have a counter torque arm that is 3" long opposing the much longer torque arm trying to rotate free. This counter torque are reduces the strength required by the weld on the top of the plate as in the first Case. Thus, the through solution is stronger all things being equal.
I would go with hole in the base plate for possibly dipping them in a galvanize tank although that one did not look galv. And no moisture collecting in the bottom to freeze and thaw.
Back in the 1980's I had an esab stack up tig welder, Transformer, rectifier, HF unit all seperate boxes so you had AC or DC depending on how the boxes were plugged in. The HF unit on that would make a spark over three foot long and the HF would travel down the mains line and on one occasion it blew up the fax unit which was in the office on a separate circuit but connected via the fuse board. Modern HF tig welders don't seem to cause the same sort of problem. There is a YT channel called allistairarc123 where he welds big things like broken crushers that take days just laying down the welds, and I mean big one casting was ten tons or more and it was snapped in two halfs and he put it together again.
A friend of mine has a modern fronius TIG. That thing, if you accidentally bump the pedal will arc like crazy too. Has also killed electronics once. My chinesium one that I have now seems quite subtle.
I have a buddy who works for Valmont. They are really big in the utility pole game. I went through their facility in Tennessee a few years back, and the base plates they were doing were absolutely solid (3 or 3.5” if memory serves) Now…. That doesn’t really mean much, because one thing I do know from him is that there are dozens of different ‘families’ of these poles. They’re not all the same. And yes you were right about the mechanized welds. They were running 2 big ass sub arc machines on the poles I saw.
I've never done power poles but on bike frames there is a pretty big hole cut between tubes to cut weight. Anything inside of that area isn't adding that much strength so it's removed. (makes getting tubeseal though it all easier after welding too if it's CroMo). Not sure if it's for that same reason on a power pole though. I bet that weldment took 22 hours to prep & weld. (If stick) Nice work. I'm paranoid about computers & electronics on my weld table too. But I have messed up & left stuff there quite a few times. I just did a part yesterday & forgot to ground my positioner. grounded right through it somehow.. luckily it still works.. Doh!! Good vid man
On the power tower flange, one reason I could see to cut the center hole would apply only if it was fillet welded on both outside AND inside. If we assume that the strength of the weld is proportional to the throat thickness of the fillet (measured at 45 degrees up & out from the root), then it becomes apparent that the root pass gives you the most thickness for your effort, perhaps 3/16" or so. A second layer could easily take 2 or 3 passes to give you the next 3/16" of throat thickness, and so on. The larger the fillet, the greater the number of passes you need to span the width of the face for each increment of throat thickness. If we go inside the pipe, we get to start over and that very first root pass gives us as much additional strength as the last 20 passes on the outside. Of course, thermal distortion from all those cooling welds will turn that flat 4" flange into a bowl, and having a fillet on the inside will counteract this quite a lot. The material the manufacturer saved by cutting out the center could also be sold off for more than the cost of the cut itself. There are several reasons for that hole, I think.
On that tower stackking the welds will add to the heat effected zone running up the tower . Welding the tower on its bottom to the flange would allow the 4" thick flange to absorb a large amount of the heat shrinking the heat effected zone !
I believe the hole is there so water/condensation cannot build up with inside it, and when the ice freezes, it can split the tower other reason could be for additional earth grounds to come down within side the column
All of the large poles have the plate center cut out, even the smaller ones for the overhead road signs are cut out the same. Weight isn't usually an issue on such structures, you run out of space long before weight is a concern. I don't know all the reasons involved for the cut out bottom but part of it is moisture, allows it to breath and normalize with conditions to prevent it from rusting out from the inside. Im a trucker though so i dont get all the details, only the ones the site manager fonds interesting enough to share lol
The bottom of the baseplate is cut out to allow for water, leaves, etc, to escape out the gap between the concrete base and the leveling nuts below the base.
Engineer and fabricator: My bet is on design for hot-dip galvanizing (mainly) with a secondary benefit of not collecting water. I would think the design just came from a tower that is intended to be dipped. Weight reduction and material savings do not seem like reasons to me in this case. Also, many others are suggesting it is to reduce rigidity and thus stress... I have no experience with base-plate design on towers this tall, but I don't think engineers get too granular with flexibility calculations on base plates in that regard. I know we don't on our steel structures, but we do plan for galvanizing and moisture.
Engineer here just to say the guy(s) that spec’d the tower, anchor bolt and foundation detail, weld spec, etc. would probably be happy to share more information. Legal liabilities aside, lots of people I’ve worked with love to explain and share knowledge.
Adding gussets especially in the tower configuration instills stress risers and would eventually fail w the wind loads and heat cool cycles upon the tower. As far as welding multi passes it spreads the applied load as it transfers
Few years ago I had a cell tower installed in my back yard, and I filmed a fair amount of the process. The hole was 38’ deep 8’ diameter and they trucked the rebar cage in. It took 15 truck loads of concrete to fill the hole.
Two reasons I can see for the hole in the base plate. It makes the assembly almost idiot proof. The pole will always be in the centre. The second is that water won't gather in the pole.
12 Bit Atari! 😂 How many motorists swerved off the road while watching the dude climbing under the fence wearing a welding hood dragging a dirt bike? Love the videos! Be Safe!
Great start ! Like BUBBA on crusty demons of dirt. Early days we would cast the studs into the Crete , ( 20&30 metre high masts) years later the chem bonds are strong enough . I spotted you left without your back pack and guessed you scoffed the Sammiches
The bolts will likely be about 10 ft long, so embedded 10 ft into concrete. They are often bolted up to thinner plate at the top and bottom of the pile to template and hold them in place prior to concrete placement.
I once saw journeymen welding up giant mining equipment and I was amazed at how deep they stacked the welds. Was the hollowed out area, the same depth as the flange? Or was it a shallow hollow area? Looking at this, it might not be surprising if they beveled the flange itself and the welds go deep down into the flange.
They cut the bottom out to prevent condensation from rusting out the pole from the inside. Practical engineering just did a baseplate video that explained this
That lifting spreader bar that probably has 45 to 50 passes on that to fill that all in and it was done with a meg welder he easily went through a 44 pound spool of wire to do that much welding
Some flex of the flange may indeed help preserve the integrity of the tubular system. Flexed things can be funny like that--they need to move to avoid breakage. STEEL can flex infinite cycles, aluminum cannot--maybe that's why you're leaning towards "rigidity rules" thinking? Enjoyed the mini moto. I had a chainsaw with a bigger engine than that buzzy bike-and you had bonus miles of "fun" ! I like your new focus--also I built a couple of bicycles of double/triple butted tubing (4130) and learned a lot of stuff to design them up right. Had to be fitted to my "other than average" proportions for best function and performance, yadda yadda, True Temper and also Columbus. O/A not welded. If I ever build another it will be welded Ti.
I have welded hundreds if not thousands of base plates to those poles! It's a backing bar that sits behind the weld. So let's not over think this... The pole it's self is made up of 2 - 6 sided halves. 12 flats total. It's been seam welded on a machine. Some like 12 inches of each seam on either end has been weld by hand and double-checked by ultrasound. Then a backing bar is welded in. Then a base plate is fitted onto the pole. Then you clean the groove on all 12 flats with a grinder. And the base plate is preheated to between 200°-350°F and then welded to engineered weld size by hand using a solid core wire. This is also double-checked with ultrasound. The hole in the bottom of the plate is there so the base plate can be back welded to the pole. So you don't have to worry about it popping off while grinding. Sometimes the the base plates are solid with no hole on the bottom. These poles are built pretty solid. And double-checked consistently.
@@6061it's wild how every armchair commenter in here hasn't watched the video at all; Yet keeps giving you breakdowns of how they think it's done, and passing that opinion as fact 😂 with fake stories too.
@6061 it could also be 8 sided. Just depending. And it really does not need back welded. As I said you back weld to prevent the base plate from popping off while grinding and welding. If it's to tight to get your weld hood+hard hat inside it doesn't get back welded. In this case you grind out and weld 2 or 3 roots Aaron's the pole.
Might give the base of the tower a bit more flex, allow a bit of movement compared to solid piece. Or may be heat when welding easier to heat a ring rather than a big solid but if metal
Some big welds?😂 Damn , he welds for weeks on some projects. Did you see him repair that rock crusher jaw. I think he went through 500 pounds of wire. That dude knows how to work.
With the power pole - the pole is hollow, the sheet in the bottom is just to keep moisture out so it doesn't rust from the inside. The pole is inserted about half way through the plate and welded from both sides so the profile on the outside can stay smaller. It also transfers stress from the pole to multiple planes in the plate, effectively making it stronger. It's anchored into the concrete with giant J-bolts. Couldn't tell you if they were welded into a preformed cage or not but that's the way I'd do it, eliminates the chance of them shifting as the concrete sets. The concrete footing's going to be massive. Best guess is 10-15 feet deep and quite possibly wider below grade. For reference, I spent 6 years building signs you see from the interstate and wrapped around the tops of skyscrapers. Same principles.
@@6061 Well technically it should be. The company I worked for went overboard and put it all the way through to better distribute the load. Like if it was half inch wall tubing you'd stop half an inch from the bottom of the plate and do a full fillet. But yeah going back to the scope footage it looks like they only put it maybe an inch in. Making me think twice about who the government is overpaying to make this stuff if they're even skimping there.
Hey dude....the answer is actually simpler than you think....it has to do with the galvanizing process....when those towers are dunked into a 700° hot tank, the galvanizing goes inside the structure, but they need to have a way for the gases to escape or they have a gigantic pipe bomb....a large fork lift or front end loader is used to load and remove these into massive tanks ...when we have handrails built for our construction projects they must have a certain number of holes in them...or the galvanizer will drill them for you....then back charge you on top of it....check out your local galvanizing company...it's fascinating
Just thinking out loud, would that hole in the base plate have something to do with flexibility to help prevent stress cracking, that was a nice stack of welds that young fella made. 👌
My 2 cents on "makes it stiffer" for the poles. I don't know anything about these poles nor does my knowledge on welding reaches more than "got his first lesson" but as an engineer I heard you say "makes it stiffer" and then I say "stiffer is not always better". With huge poles moving in the wind maybe they want the base not to be to ridged.
Having currents go through bearings is a real problem. For a small positioner with almost no speed and no load it might not be a big problem. But in other machines it's a big thing. Especially nowadays that everything is run with variable frequency. The fast edges can cause lots of currents to go where you don't want them to go. They can and do ruin bearings quickly.
Can you cover more aluminum spoolgun please? Really like your content and explanation. I’m most interested in spoolgun running downhill vertical. No one seems to have covered this topic much yet in my research. Cheers!
Check out wind mill footings. Way more wind resistance, and all of the centripetal/centrifugal torques and forces, but I bet the footings on these are significant too.
I thought you going on a field trip was hilarious especially going under the fence ! I tried to call you when you left to let you know you forgot your camera but I guess you didn’t hear me 😀🇨🇦
They go together like stacking cups. The bottom one has the next one slid over the top and down a pre determined distance. That was well over 20 passes. If it was 12 high by 12 wide plus the middle.....
Some OG 6061 content at the start boys and girls!
These are the most fun videos to make by far, but also the most time consuming.
Thanks for watching all of you that have been here from the beginning, I really appreciate it!
BRAVO!
💯💯
You ain’t lying! And so much was said without even saying a word
I remember the silent vids!
I used to weld the base plates to these poles. 3/32" dual shield fluxcore wire 100% co2. The poles sit horizontal on powered trunnions you control the rotation with a foot pedal or a button on your torch lead. The pole is beveled where it is welded to the base plate. The base plate is not beveled. There's a backing bar that is welded to the inside of the pole then the base plate is fit up and tacked to that. Bases were preheated before welding then checked also heated while welding to maintain a specific temperature range. The pole thickness depending on diameter of pole ranged from 3/16 inch to 1 inch. The diameter of the pole ranged from 10 inches or so to 12 feet. Smaller poles can be 8 sided but most were 12 sided. The poles are made of 2 six sided halves that are sub arc machine welded together. The poles are in 40 foot sections and fit up in the field with slip joints . The base plates ranged from 1.5 inch to 6 inch thick and most have a hole cut out of the center some do not. Most of the bigger poles base plates had at least 12 passes but usually more. All welds were checked visually and with ultra sonic test equipment multiple times. They would also take some poles outside behind the manufacturing plant and destructively test them by attaching a large cable system to the top of the pole with the base bolted to the ground and pull it over untill it failed.
Super interesting to read this, this comment should be pinned!
Very interesting, thanks for sharing this info!
That powered trunion setup sounds great 😃
Just to add, he was asking about the depth of the footer. I'm a lineman and have worked them out after the foundation guys come through and pour all of them, but some the the ones we did were 40-60 deep.
These are the types of comments I live for! Thanks for your insight! Love learning something new
Keep them coming. These types of videos helps people like us to learn from other’s questions or comments.
I believe part of why the opening is in the bottom plate is for controlling moisture build up or venting to keep it dry inside.
Another reason is if water does somehow get inside were to build up and air temps get down below freezing, that pole would split and quite possibly fail. A few years ago a ski lift tower collected enough water inside froze and failed I can't remember where though.
the opposite is true. if a steel weldement is completely sealed it will only rust internally until all the oxygen is consumed by the oxidation process. Many bridge beams are made this way with no need to paint or coat the inside.
@@garthlandHow reliably can it be completely sealed?
@@garthland Only if it's airtight. Also this is probably corten, it needs oxygen to scale up but can't have pooled water on it.
@@quartertwenty484Think you are correct. You either want it airtight (and pressure tested) or properly drained. Even a small pin hole in a large volume like that and it will suck in moist air during hot-cold cycles. The moisture condensate during the cold cycle and gets trapped inside, slowly filling it with water.
can i say...
Props to George too!
Jesus thats a lot of great quality straight welding
Hands down, I watch every video you post, in my opinion, I have yet to be disappointed!!! I do Mig production welding for a living, never touch a Tig machine nor do I have a desire to weld aluminum but I find your content intriguing. The knowledge you share is priceless. You also can have me laughing. You can be a riot!
Thanks for the videos!!!
Use tig for lot more then aluminum
I love these videos. It gives a reasonable chance for someone like me to send in a legitimate question and have it answered by someone far more experienced than I. Excellent videos as always Aaron
I used to build these towers. (Sabre Industries) in the 8 years I worked there i have never seen one inserted into the base and welded onto the back side. They have ALL been welded directly to the base.
Yeah, I would think there's some uniformity to them .
Was the CEO a southern lady with two giant dogs?
@@gummel82appreciate the joke. 👍
”crevice corrosion” would likely be a problem if it’s only welded on the backside.
Thank you so much for this type of content. Helping me a lot with my career.
I'll buy some stuff in the store when I can.
I know a few people who weld those towers at Valmont in TN. I've done big, stacked welds like that on excavator buckets. Very Zen. I've also had few factory jobs where I fabricated and welded structural parts for heavy machinery. All industrial MIG. Now I'm just welding in my garage for fun with a Fronius stick welder.
I enjoy all your videos and always learn something. Even more so now that you’re speaking.
Totally agree
Agreed !
Ive been welding for over 20years , and i still learn something from every video !
The glove .
Helps with the explaining.
Thanks 🍻👨🏻🏭🇨🇦
They use the same flanges for light poles and so they need a way to run wires up to the lights. Some also have camaras and need space for cables.
I think it's great that you take the time to respond in this fashion. Regarding the grounding through a "bearing" type situation, we have a part we commonly have to repair weld that involves exactly that situation. The weld area itself would be the ideal clamping point but alas the ground itself would become a part of the fillet. It's a large cast white iron hinge that we use 7014 on. As long as the hinge has some weight on it the ground path does ok. If trying to repair the hinge while set up in a vice- that's when we've had problems with the hinge pin welding itself to the hinge leaf.
I love whatever videos you make!
I can think of two good reasons to cut the center out of the flange.
1. It locates the flange on the column without the need for any fixtures.
2. That "waste" cut out of the center might have value to them either to be sold or used as a flange for a smaller tower. That's big chunk of 4" steel that would cost a fair bit of change if you needed to buy a piece that size.
If space allows for it, a purely fillet welded assembly like the one shown it's actually stronger than one where bevels were cut if you use that same amount of weld because it gives the joint a bigger footprint that makes it inherently stronger on anything but purely tensional loads while maintaining the same tension strength.
Old school here, 41 yrs in the business, most of the time, bevel or not, comes down to the wps. Read the symbols, if not called out, ask for a variance or make sure they didn't miss it. If left to me, I've always determined whether to bevel by how much space iam dealing with, a big bevel saves some space outside of the part, if I have room, I might not bevel. Those base plates are cutout for drainage to make sure the tube doesn't freeze and crack. The inner plate is to keep visitors from making a home in there, the inner plate is most likely stitched and or small relief cuts to let moisture out.
@JeremyWeiler-v9x
Well said, Jeremy.
One of the most important takeaways from your comment is, "ask for a variance".
Most welders don't realize they can do that. If you think something isn't clear or could be done better/more efficient, feel free to ask questions.
Blueprints are not set in stone. Quite often the drawings are wrong for what should actually be done to achieve making the final product. A large percentage of "engineers" have very little real world welding experience.
@6061 exactly, if you don't like what you see or have questions always ask, you're most likely dealing with an engineer that is an "expert" in everything, and we all know how that goes.! Always more than one way! I drive that home to my apprentices daily, i want them to learn to deal with things like we're talking about, and develop their own ways. Its the end product counts, the in between not so much as long as it's done correctly!
@@6061 100%. I have never actually asked for a variance though (didn't know it was a thing). I generally just tell the engineer he's whacked & tell him how it needs to be.
I had an alum part last week typical "T' joint bracket for a motor. It's 1/2" 6061. He wanted a 1/16" weld on one side and a 1/8" weld on the other.
I had to inform him that you don't just pick a size... Customer is never right...
Subbed for years now, but that "roadtrip" intro video was the best thing I've seen in ages on u tubby.... Thanks! OMGS the fence... Can't quit laughing everytime I think of it...
Killer intro & I love the random glove on the other hand. Kinda makes a mind warp when watching your hand move👍🏼👍🏼
I do love my camera probe too!
Moisture dissipation is stronger than my "steel can flex" reasoning.
Love these videos and how you do what most people do and ignore the "experts".
I would love to go on more feildtrips with you!
I usually use a piece of cardboard as a non-conductive insulator beneath my computer or phone on the welding table. I'm just trying to play it safe. Thanks for your informative videos.
Love the videos, Aaron.
I guess all that matters is the parts are built to the specs on the print. It's the enginerds job to decide the why and how. It's the Welders' job to complete that task.
I have inspected hundreds of these structures. The joint you are looking at is a CJP welded with SAW with a backer. And yes, welded to the top of the base plate. Weather they have bare weathering steel or are galvanized they are welded the same but inspected diffrently.
Any and all videos please. I do enjoy watching you bust out the PW80 and go with that old school style video ,I laugh like a loon every time.
I like em all Aaron . The road trip was funny as hell . lol Interesting how they finished the flange on that tower .
As for that lifting assy, it looked like about ten cover welds alone, I wouldn't doubt it's well over thirty passes .
Yeah, people need to try a series like that, they'll respect SMAW a lot more . lol Anyway, another great video . :)
For the tower bases you might be on to something with the weight savings, it could also be a convenience item to weld on the underside of that plate as far as fixturing goes. With a hole in the plate you can press the base onto the tower and then the tower and base plate are fixed together when it goes to the welding area and the welding are doesn't have to worry about two parts anymore.... They may also be able to make the connection with less welding and less welding material too.
Love your videos bud. I've never welded in my life but I really like all these questions answered ✌️
Another good video as I type this on my Acer 1080, a Christmas present from my wife.
I'm just a metal freak.... you know Shiney.....
I have a small blacksmithing shop and I work in a machine shop as a saw man and finisher. I love cuttin' 6061, brass , copper. I have a love hate relationship with titanium and 2055 lithium 7075.
Love your content!!
My fave weld brain. I have 1,000 + hours on TIG (non-commercial), 70YO and cranking till the end. While it's always "horses for courses" I learn quite a few things from you. You made me change my style of filler rod "push" to "dime stack.. Trying to get my head around your "Button"..........soon. Run a couple of Miller Dynasty 350's like yours. Oldies BUT a Great machine. Thanks for your efforts, greatly appreciated. Davo from "Oz" 🦘🦘🦘🦘
I was fortunate this past year to watch helicopter crews replace all the high voltage lines from Perry Nuclear Plant into our county. The helicopter temporary base of operations was about 1 mile from our house. They'd haul the guys back and forth on a ladder dangling from a cable. Some of the time they were working in the early spring it was maybe low 30s all day long but they were still flying through the air at maybe 60-80 mph. They hooked up wheel mounts for the line to every single pole, then pulled the new lines. I even got some video of the wheels spinning but I didn't find the terminal location; I was curious how they wound up the old wire and pulled the new wire. Then they went back and removed all the wheel contraptions. It was one of the most impressive things I've seen in my life. It maybe took a day or two for each line. Where I live the towers are built on concrete post foundations, which they sometimes replace in-situ... Maybe when the bedrock is close to the surface they can use those posts like in your video? I'm not sure why they'd choose one or the other. That business must be pretty interesting.
I like all of your videos
I find them very interesting and lots of information just like that tower. I would have bet it would be a full plate thanks for all of your hard work I do appreciate it 👍
They're installing a bunch of monopoles out near my place. The foundations are huge piles with rebar cages the full depth and an additiinal assembly with two rings supporting the large studs, twice as tall as it is wide.
Very similar to wind turbine foundations.
love these detail videos based on comments. Keep them up!
one explanation that makes sense from an engineering standpoint (other that weight and less money in material) is that you don't have as big a jump in stiffness from one part to another wich acts as a stress riser that could influence the fatigue calcs. (its probably material savings though)
All your videos are good content.
I've seen those towers up close and being shipped on trucks. All the ones I've seen in person at angles I could verify were hollow on the base with stacks of weld just like you showed.
Hahahaha the dirt bike field trip had me laughing and laughing. I lost it when you fast-forward tugged your bike under the fence! 😂 great video!
Here is what I hope is a clear enough explanation:
Case 1 -Post welded to 3" solid plate: The post provides a torque arm that wants to rotate around the base of the post and the plate. The torque is the force applied at the end of the post multiplied by the length. The weld must resist the entirety of this torque or the post will rip free of the bottom plate.
Case 2 - Post through 3" plate welded top and bottom. In this case the torque on the post is identical and the point of rotation is still about the top of the plate weld, but you now have a counter torque arm that is 3" long opposing the much longer torque arm trying to rotate free. This counter torque are reduces the strength required by the weld on the top of the plate as in the first Case. Thus, the through solution is stronger all things being equal.
I would go with hole in the base plate for possibly dipping them in a galvanize tank although that one did not look galv. And no moisture collecting in the bottom to freeze and thaw.
Back in the 1980's I had an esab stack up tig welder, Transformer, rectifier, HF unit all seperate boxes so you had AC or DC depending on how the boxes were plugged in. The HF unit on that would make a spark over three foot long and the HF would travel down the mains line and on one occasion it blew up the fax unit which was in the office on a separate circuit but connected via the fuse board. Modern HF tig welders don't seem to cause the same sort of problem. There is a YT channel called allistairarc123 where he welds big things like broken crushers that take days just laying down the welds, and I mean big one casting was ten tons or more and it was snapped in two halfs and he put it together again.
A friend of mine has a modern fronius TIG. That thing, if you accidentally bump the pedal will arc like crazy too. Has also killed electronics once. My chinesium one that I have now seems quite subtle.
I have a buddy who works for Valmont. They are really big in the utility pole game. I went through their facility in Tennessee a few years back, and the base plates they were doing were absolutely solid (3 or 3.5” if memory serves) Now…. That doesn’t really mean much, because one thing I do know from him is that there are dozens of different ‘families’ of these poles. They’re not all the same. And yes you were right about the mechanized welds. They were running 2 big ass sub arc machines on the poles I saw.
I've never done power poles but on bike frames there is a pretty big hole cut between tubes to cut weight. Anything inside of that area isn't adding that much strength so it's removed. (makes getting tubeseal though it all easier after welding too if it's CroMo). Not sure if it's for that same reason on a power pole though.
I bet that weldment took 22 hours to prep & weld. (If stick) Nice work.
I'm paranoid about computers & electronics on my weld table too. But I have messed up & left stuff there quite a few times. I just did a part yesterday & forgot to ground my positioner. grounded right through it somehow.. luckily it still works.. Doh!! Good vid man
On the power tower flange, one reason I could see to cut the center hole would apply only if it was fillet welded on both outside AND inside. If we assume that the strength of the weld is proportional to the throat thickness of the fillet (measured at 45 degrees up & out from the root), then it becomes apparent that the root pass gives you the most thickness for your effort, perhaps 3/16" or so. A second layer could easily take 2 or 3 passes to give you the next 3/16" of throat thickness, and so on. The larger the fillet, the greater the number of passes you need to span the width of the face for each increment of throat thickness. If we go inside the pipe, we get to start over and that very first root pass gives us as much additional strength as the last 20 passes on the outside. Of course, thermal distortion from all those cooling welds will turn that flat 4" flange into a bowl, and having a fillet on the inside will counteract this quite a lot. The material the manufacturer saved by cutting out the center could also be sold off for more than the cost of the cut itself. There are several reasons for that hole, I think.
On that tower stackking the welds will add to the heat effected zone running up the tower . Welding the tower on its bottom to the flange would allow the 4" thick flange to absorb a large amount of the heat shrinking the heat effected zone !
I believe the hole is there so water/condensation cannot build up with inside it, and when the ice freezes, it can split the tower other reason could be for additional earth grounds to come down within side the column
All of the large poles have the plate center cut out, even the smaller ones for the overhead road signs are cut out the same. Weight isn't usually an issue on such structures, you run out of space long before weight is a concern. I don't know all the reasons involved for the cut out bottom but part of it is moisture, allows it to breath and normalize with conditions to prevent it from rusting out from the inside. Im a trucker though so i dont get all the details, only the ones the site manager fonds interesting enough to share lol
DC tigging aluminum. I don't do it often but when needed it's a game changer.
IDK if you are looking for this comment. But the left hand glove, on your right hand... Had me laughing! Lol
Yeah That's funny 🤣🤣
I did enjoy the field trip. You are a real silly son of a gun!
The bottom of the baseplate is cut out to allow for water, leaves, etc, to escape out the gap between the concrete base and the leveling nuts below the base.
Engineer and fabricator: My bet is on design for hot-dip galvanizing (mainly) with a secondary benefit of not collecting water. I would think the design just came from a tower that is intended to be dipped. Weight reduction and material savings do not seem like reasons to me in this case. Also, many others are suggesting it is to reduce rigidity and thus stress... I have no experience with base-plate design on towers this tall, but I don't think engineers get too granular with flexibility calculations on base plates in that regard. I know we don't on our steel structures, but we do plan for galvanizing and moisture.
It's nice to have your video great format.
Engineer here just to say the guy(s) that spec’d the tower, anchor bolt and foundation detail, weld spec, etc. would probably be happy to share more information.
Legal liabilities aside, lots of people I’ve worked with love to explain and share knowledge.
I see these on the backs of trucks pretty regularly, I'll see if I can talk a driver into letting me get some pics of the inside when I get a chance.
Adding gussets especially in the tower configuration instills stress risers and would eventually fail w the wind loads and heat cool cycles upon the tower. As far as welding multi passes it spreads the applied load as it transfers
Few years ago I had a cell tower installed in my back yard, and I filmed a fair amount of the process. The hole was 38’ deep 8’ diameter and they trucked the rebar cage in. It took 15 truck loads of concrete to fill the hole.
Škoda did a weld job on some flood control gates for the Dutch; if you want to see beads on beads that’s worth a look.
You also need a hole for water/condensation drainage. Minimize rust and freeze thaw damages
Two reasons I can see for the hole in the base plate. It makes the assembly almost idiot proof. The pole will always be in the centre. The second is that water won't gather in the pole.
Love your show!!
Would you consider making a playlist that would allow us welding junkies to binge watch??
Thanks!!
12 Bit Atari! 😂 How many motorists swerved off the road while watching the dude climbing under the fence wearing a welding hood dragging a dirt bike? Love the videos! Be Safe!
Really liking the style of these videos, your motorbike helmet is dubious to say the least, but really entertaining stuff.
Great start ! Like BUBBA on crusty demons of dirt. Early days we would cast the studs into the Crete , ( 20&30 metre high masts) years later the chem bonds are strong enough . I spotted you left without your back pack and guessed you scoffed the Sammiches
The bolts will likely be about 10 ft long, so embedded 10 ft into concrete. They are often bolted up to thinner plate at the top and bottom of the pile to template and hold them in place prior to concrete placement.
those anchor bolts on those towers are 3 to 4 feet long tied into a rebar cage and those piers can be up 30 feet deep
Great video, really enjoy this series.
Cool video, I like the format. We should all be trying to learn regardless how long you e been doing it…..
I once saw journeymen welding up giant mining equipment and I was amazed at how deep they stacked the welds. Was the hollowed out area, the same depth as the flange? Or was it a shallow hollow area? Looking at this, it might not be surprising if they beveled the flange itself and the welds go deep down into the flange.
Cool shop talk stuff Aaron! Good content.
They cut the bottom out to prevent condensation from rusting out the pole from the inside. Practical engineering just did a baseplate video that explained this
The bottoms are cut out to allow condensed moisture to escape rather than rusting the base plate and tower base.
Yeah mate, keep em coming.
That lifting spreader bar that probably has 45 to 50 passes on that to fill that all in and it was done with a meg welder he easily went through a 44 pound spool of wire to do that much welding
Some flex of the flange may indeed help preserve the integrity of the tubular system. Flexed things can be funny like that--they need to move to avoid breakage. STEEL can flex infinite cycles, aluminum cannot--maybe that's why you're leaning towards "rigidity rules" thinking? Enjoyed the mini moto. I had a chainsaw with a bigger engine than that buzzy bike-and you had bonus miles of "fun" !
I like your new focus--also I built a couple of bicycles of double/triple butted tubing (4130) and learned a lot of stuff to design them up right. Had to be fitted to my "other than average" proportions for best function and performance, yadda yadda, True Temper and also Columbus. O/A not welded. If I ever build another it will be welded Ti.
The cutout in the bottom plate are for air circulation inside the tower.
Do you have a tour for your trailer shop? looks like a really neat little space.
Thanks for sharing, we’re listening 😅
I have welded hundreds if not thousands of base plates to those poles!
It's a backing bar that sits behind the weld. So let's not over think this... The pole it's self is made up of 2 - 6 sided halves. 12 flats total. It's been seam welded on a machine. Some like 12 inches of each seam on either end has been weld by hand and double-checked by ultrasound. Then a backing bar is welded in. Then a base plate is fitted onto the pole. Then you clean the groove on all 12 flats with a grinder. And the base plate is preheated to between 200°-350°F and then welded to engineered weld size by hand using a solid core wire. This is also double-checked with ultrasound.
The hole in the bottom of the plate is there so the base plate can be back welded to the pole. So you don't have to worry about it popping off while grinding. Sometimes the the base plates are solid with no hole on the bottom.
These poles are built pretty solid. And double-checked consistently.
How many flats total on this part? Check again...
And I see no weld on the underside.
@@6061it's wild how every armchair commenter in here hasn't watched the video at all;
Yet keeps giving you breakdowns of how they think it's done, and passing that opinion as fact 😂 with fake stories too.
@6061 it could also be 8 sided. Just depending. And it really does not need back welded. As I said you back weld to prevent the base plate from popping off while grinding and welding. If it's to tight to get your weld hood+hard hat inside it doesn't get back welded. In this case you grind out and weld 2 or 3 roots Aaron's the pole.
@@YourFriendlyHoodVampireDis-Tran Steel LLC. Look them up ass hat. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about.
Might give the base of the tower a bit more flex, allow a bit of movement compared to solid piece. Or may be heat when welding easier to heat a ring rather than a big solid but if metal
allistairc123 has some big welds here on youtube.
Some big welds?😂 Damn , he welds for weeks on some projects. Did you see him repair that rock crusher jaw. I think he went through 500 pounds of wire. That dude knows how to work.
With the power pole - the pole is hollow, the sheet in the bottom is just to keep moisture out so it doesn't rust from the inside. The pole is inserted about half way through the plate and welded from both sides so the profile on the outside can stay smaller. It also transfers stress from the pole to multiple planes in the plate, effectively making it stronger.
It's anchored into the concrete with giant J-bolts. Couldn't tell you if they were welded into a preformed cage or not but that's the way I'd do it, eliminates the chance of them shifting as the concrete sets. The concrete footing's going to be massive. Best guess is 10-15 feet deep and quite possibly wider below grade.
For reference, I spent 6 years building signs you see from the interstate and wrapped around the tops of skyscrapers. Same principles.
The pole is inserted about halfway through the plate? That's not what I'm seeing...
@@6061 Well technically it should be. The company I worked for went overboard and put it all the way through to better distribute the load. Like if it was half inch wall tubing you'd stop half an inch from the bottom of the plate and do a full fillet. But yeah going back to the scope footage it looks like they only put it maybe an inch in. Making me think twice about who the government is overpaying to make this stuff if they're even skimping there.
Same yet different
Hey dude....the answer is actually simpler than you think....it has to do with the galvanizing process....when those towers are dunked into a 700° hot tank, the galvanizing goes inside the structure, but they need to have a way for the gases to escape or they have a gigantic pipe bomb....a large fork lift or front end loader is used to load and remove these into massive tanks ...when we have handrails built for our construction projects they must have a certain number of holes in them...or the galvanizer will drill them for you....then back charge you on top of it....check out your local galvanizing company...it's fascinating
Yup I like this form of content. Even got some dirt biking in!!
Just thinking out loud, would that hole in the base plate have something to do with flexibility to help prevent stress cracking, that was a nice stack of welds that young fella made. 👌
Now that’s a fillet!❤
My 2 cents on "makes it stiffer" for the poles.
I don't know anything about these poles nor does my knowledge on welding reaches more than "got his first lesson" but as an engineer I heard you say "makes it stiffer" and then I say "stiffer is not always better".
With huge poles moving in the wind maybe they want the base not to be to ridged.
Having currents go through bearings is a real problem. For a small positioner with almost no speed and no load it might not be a big problem. But in other machines it's a big thing. Especially nowadays that everything is run with variable frequency. The fast edges can cause lots of currents to go where you don't want them to go. They can and do ruin bearings quickly.
Can you cover more aluminum spoolgun please? Really like your content and explanation. I’m most interested in spoolgun running downhill vertical. No one seems to have covered this topic much yet in my research. Cheers!
Especially running spoolgun downhill on preheated heavy material like 3/4-1” thick groove full pen welds
Check out wind mill footings. Way more wind resistance, and all of the centripetal/centrifugal torques and forces, but I bet the footings on these are significant too.
I thought you going on a field trip was hilarious especially going under the fence !
I tried to call you when you left to let you know you forgot your camera but I guess you didn’t hear me 😀🇨🇦
I have no real idea but, maybe it's cut out so it doesn't trap water and have corrosion problems?
They go together like stacking cups. The bottom one has the next one slid over the top and down a pre determined distance.
That was well over 20 passes. If it was 12 high by 12 wide plus the middle.....
Bench, grinder in welding class was on the table for years, and then one day it smoked the ground on it from somebody welding on the table
Great video 😁👍
Loved the field trip 😊
Would the cut out flange be to prevent water rusting the tower out from the inside?
I like to think he just leaves a bunch of cameras + stands all over the place and never goes back to get them.