New diesel EVs for the Outback! (Australian innovation at its finest.) |Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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The ultimate laugh would be a bunch of EV drivers rocking up to Erldunda to find out that the "solar charger" is waiting on a diesel delivery.
Or rendered inoperable by a layer of bird-dirt.
@@truck6859 Yes there is no provision for "Run Off". that is, if they get any rain up there.
Or more likely no fuel thanks to the locals or it broke down in the heat. I like your thinking
Ah you do realise how stupid that comment is right? What about your Diesel vehicle waiting on the Diesel delivery. At least with the EV you could get something from the Solar array.. DA! 😂
@@rogerpearson9081 Ha ha, you have lived in the North.
I have worked with Diesel Powered EVs for years, I work for a railway.
Are there plans for DPF recirculation burn, or ad blue in your power units? I remember V/Line used overhead wires to power trains, one dirty power source and clean train stations, now it is a fume fest.
There is no shortage of companies that have proposed Diesel options over the years to improve either reliability or environmental parameters. The government seems to expect us to run battery trains and this has been thoroughly investigated. There are significant issues with this, not least of which is both domestic and international politics. If you think there are safety issues with a car battery fire, consider and locomotive muti-megawatt battery incident. Be it the incredible burst of energy in the case of a short circuit or the ferocity of a potential fire, Train Batteries are orders of magnitude more dangerous that car batteries simply because of scale.
Can't wait for locomotive sized vehicles going 10 mph on the road to get maximum efficiency.
@@hatman1234 but bcuz a train is both critical infrastructure (to say the least) and costs a hell of a lot of money, the quality parameters of the trains is nice and high, vs cars which are neither critically necessary nor costly.
@@hatman1234 but on the same token some risks are reduced as a train travels fairly fixed routes unlike a car or truck.
The solar panels are there to charge the starter batteries for the diesel engine.
I reckon the solar-panels are only there for charging the batteries for the shelter's LED lighting when the generator isn't on!
The generator's own alternator charges its own battery.
Probably mostly to light up the empty station like a beacon/guiding star at night for desperate EVers.
_[And to power the Windows7 laptop running the whole thing...]_
I would be hoping for a snack and drink machine at least
Mostly because of the wait awhile issue
That would be to power the payment system .
@@krissteel4074 Install a latte machine and you'd make a fortune...
Another thing you could add to the efficiency figures is a large margin of people will be sitting in said EJV consuming all that diesel fuel running the aircon because its... fricken hot out here mate.
No need. The road house has a excellent airconditioned cafe/restaurant inside. I've been there heaps of times. Of course this was before EV's were even anything more than a tinkerers toy.
If only there was some kind of liquid fuel source that could carried in a tank under the vehicle and topped up quickly when required. It could catch on. (instead of catching on fire)
Been thought of already and works perfectly, it's called Petrol/Diesel/LPG powered ICE vehicles.
And if only diesel was free too , but it isn’t . NRMA chargers are actually free for EVs . Try again hater
If only they could invest a liquid that didn't pollute
Jeez, that's just fantasy land dawg. Star Trek grade futurism.
Don't know which fantasy world you are living in. Next you will want bacon, ham and pork to all come from the one animal.... A magical animal.
Having been to Erldunda twice. Once on the way to Darwin and again on the way back. I can relate to how exciting it would be to spend several hours there, waiting for our vehicle to recharge. Even worse, finding 4 others had beaten me there, and we would have to stay overnight. 😂
@@VaughanMunro-js4nr. That's right! -> Where's the motel?
My car runs on fossil fuel, but it identifies as an electric vehicle.
Just because it has a generator and a lead-acid battery…
😂
Does it have its own flag?
What is this highly original joke I've never heard before
@@grantleyhughesno, it doesn't have a special flag, but every time I fill its tank and go to pay, I feel like I'm taking it up the...
Great work John. Also must add that solar panels also lose 0.5% efficiency for every degree over 25 degrees Celsius. This in addition to all the other factors on solar efficiency proves they are not the answer for the Aussie outback
Australia gets a lot of sun
Why shouldn't we use it?
Thermal solar arrays , Sand batteries working on Sterling Motors
Battery electric cars are a pipe dream
Install exercise bikes at the charging station wired to the batteries, to keep the motorists fit while they wait.
Haha
Won't happen. They are too slack to even do vehicle maintenance.. Soft generation
that would be hilarious. For reference most people can do 100 to 150 watts on a bike comfortably. 0.15kw would take a while to charge... like 22 and a half days...
@@JackButlerVideos sounds perfect.
They have those at a Gridserve site in the UK
Great to see someone go through the physics/ maths of the electricity needed/ produced etc. *This video is packed with interesting information* Well done John. Greetings from Prague, CZ
One of the last bastions of non-wokedness in the world !!
@@davidnobular9220 Define "wokeness" please so I can better understand your comment
Thats why you need a battery standard, all cars using same battery with same connectors, you just remove empty one and put in charged ones.
It's not that hard to make an automatic system , where you insert a battery and you get one back, all batteries been checked and if onboard electronics have registered problems, it goes to repairs needed section, this would also eliminate the costly battery changes from old EVs.
A bit how you buy propane, you pay only for content, after you have first paid for the container, you swap it every time and re-filler check the bottles.
@@pete_lind I too like the battery swap idea. But of course it will never be mandated. And NIO ( ? ) has that option, but we don't hear about it much, as the public aren't buying it. Whatever Tesla does, the others will follow it seems. Peace and Love
Currently in the UK "Red Diesel" is considerably cheaper than standard vehicle diesel. One of it's legal uses is for heating and generating electricity in "non-commercial" premises. I wonder how long before using diesel generators to charge EVs becomes a thing, and then how quick the Taxman will jump in to ban the practice. 🤔
Just filter it through a cat litter filter in a bucket or a drain pipe, and you can use it in your car. It will come out a bit yella, but all the red dye will be gone :P
...just exactly the same amount of time it takes for the working poor to start depending on very secondhand EVs they can barely afford to run...
actually for that purpose it would not have fuel excise in australia as it not used on road. the mining companies are the largest users of diesel in australia and pay very little fuel excise as most of it is used on the mine site or private roads so excise doesnt apply.
unlike the UK and some other countries our diesel is all the same other winter blends for the alpine regions. you claim the excise back from the tax office.
You do know that it’s cheaper only because it has no tax right?
Also hilarious is the diesel vs ev challenge on Geoff buys cars.
Now come on, the EV was only 5+ hours later doing the same run as the old diesel and only used 259 pounds sterling for electricity against the old diesel's whopping 113 pounds sterling😄😄
Have you seen The MacMasters latest video about the depreciation on his Porsche now that they are offering discounts on their EV products, which they basically never do on their other vehicles?
Damn
Yep, bloody crazy....... considering my 2007 1.6 turbo diesel car is in good nick, flies through it's MOT's, cost's £ 30 a year to tax, does easily 58 miles to the gallon and cost me £ 900 to purchase about 5 years ago. Why are people so stupid. ( sorry to Lee,, I do enjoy his videos ) @@oldbloke204
122 pounds beats 255. Plus 4 hours extra beer time
@@oldbloke204 Yep, a depreciation of £80,000 (it cost £120,000) in two years! That's gotta hurt.
😂 It is truly uplifting to see such a remarkably and altruistically generous man.👍😂😂😂
I just love how the RUclips algorithm chooses how to accurately target their adverts.
In the middle of this feature I had to sit through multiple commercials for Allianz's special insurance policies for EV cars. They even felt the need to remind their potential customers of the special clauses insuring them in the event of a battery pack thermal incident.
Their clauses are the same as their regular policies. It’s a motor policy that doesn’t even mention differences between ICE hybrid BEV or pedal power. Marketing spin more like it
Their clauses are the same as their regular policies. It’s a motor policy that doesn’t even mention differences between ICE hybrid BEV or pedal power. Marketing spin more like it
I got stuck listening to how electricity companies are making things cheaper by going renewable.
NRMA needs to dump their endless pushing of EV's and get back to providing service to their existing members.
Great video as always .
I'm interested in what they would charge you for using the electric charger , compared to the cost of diesel ,way out back.
More than it costs to run and pay back the costs of its installation presumably.
I asked the NRMA. It is currently "free" as it is a trial. That means it's us mug members subsidising the virtue dignifying EV drivers
It undoubtedly is strategically placed to coincide within the average range of an EV from the last charge point, to the next after it. In other words, we've got you by the short and curlies and will charge like a wounded bull because we can. There's lot's of servos in the outback that operate like this but with long range fuels tanks or some jerry cans carried you can sometimes negate being financially held to ransom and make it to the next fuel stop where there's cheaper fuel. You can't do that with an EV. People are going to pay dearly for that little oasis of green BS
@@erroneouscodeYou totally can though - you just carry a bunch of jerry cans and a diesel generator too! 😀 😀
@@Beer_Dad1975A towed diesel generator - - the new accessory for EV's.
When I retired we decided to get rid of both our diesel powered cars (instant regret) and we now run a single petrol vehicle and I’m glad we never went down the electric/hybrid route.
Powering EV’s by diesel is pretty standard. During the meeting of wankers in COP26 held in Glasgow, the virtue signalling tossers in the SNP thought they should ferry the great and good around in EV’s. The lack of EV charging infrastructure didn’t put the SNP off. Quite the reverse. They hired in a fleet of diesel generators to power the chargers.
You’re fabulous John, Love your presentations, crack me up mate.
From an old retired aircraft engineer turned mechanic.
Reminds me of a neighbor when I was growing up. He had an old Fiat that had lost the engine and then decide to turn it into an electric car. He jammed an electric motor in it, saw how much batteries would cost and how many he would need and decided to get an old diesel engine, installed it in the fiat with a generator connected and had an EV just like the a train. Diesel to generate the electricity and no need for batteries.
Imagine being stuck behind that through the hills.
You would still need a battery of cells to balance the output from the diesel generator
@@Ktmfan450diesel/electric trains don't have them, it's just constant output from the generator, using engine speed to control electric output.
@@jasonh.8754 Assuming you're correct
To achieve a power output equivalent to something found inside an average commuter car , say 150kw , would require a 9.0l diesel generator
@@jasonh.8754 I'm not saying it's impossible but in a commuter car would be downright dangerous how slow it would be
The 'Outback' charging system in WA costs the taxpayer $450 a charge, not the EV owner, the taxpayer, more EV subsidy for the 'entitled'.
Given how often these chargers are broken, I would see someone (group) taking home a nice genset, batteries and solar panels (if they can be bothered). At least for a charging system they have given some coverage from the main elements.
*Lots of disappointed locals trying to sniff the electricity.*
Haha
😂🤣😂 Great video John it’s always great seeing the NRMA putting money from our yearly subscriptions to good and sensible use. 😂🤣😂😁😁😁
Not sensible at all, they are not looking after the members, A bit like big companies donating millions to the "voice" referendum. That didn't turn out too well.
Meh, a NSW problem.
One of the biggest issues with all these generators used for charging is that there are zero emission controls on stationary engines. An increasing contributor to air pollution are the emissions from all the backup generators installed for every business and then run and tested every month. The vehicle fleet is getting better every year and is a shrinking proportion of emissions.
Correct. I worked in a prison in Western Australia that had a huge solar array. Cost a fortune. It's not even hooked up. We have to test the 2 big back up generators every WEEK.
- it is difficult to regenerate the DPF - somewhere away from it all, ie on a nice rural freeway with nothing but farms cows and bucolia - with a stationary engine, of course one could operate a stationary generator with "exhaust fluid" and a 3 way catalytic converter, but in the middle on nowhere ?? - really...
You'd think with all that space, they could put a small wind-farm in. Guess that's even more ridiculously expensive though, and you still have the problem of what to do when there is no wind.
Off road diesels in the U.S. are now tier 4 emission controls.
@@Beer_Dad1975wind farms operate best along the coasts, where it's windy most of the time.
Aside from the centimetre of red dust accumulated on the PV array a site like that would last a nanosecond before it was vandalised/stripped and left dead in the no water.
I reckon the solar-panels are only there for charging the batteries for the shelter's LED lighting when the generator isn't on!
Those chargers also draw power when idle. From the statement about the generator running 24/7, I don't think the panels provide enough power to keep them on.
Saw my fist TESLA truck in Australia. On the road. It went through Lockhart NSW. It was branded Pepsico and signed up with the transport company name of Ballards
I see more of them being towed than towing trailers. For some reason they don’t seem to have a lot of range…
Note here John, those efficiency figures from the report are for a 1.9l 4 banger. A 6 cylinder truck diesel engine is most efficient at a far lower rev count, the usual ones in big trucks I drove are best between 1200 and 1800 rpm. Shouldn't be hard to design one to be most effective at the best speed for the generator. While that would throw the figures out a bit, I doubt it'd change it vastly, maybe making the EV a touch more efficient.
I suspect the same, with a bit of massaging of the numbers you can make either point depending on which side you take politically.
Telling it like it is ! Thanks John. ❤
Telling it like a Luddite
EV's are all about control.
Know it.
I'm still watching John's video!
All about control ?? Dude unless you drive a horse you've been sucking the hose of big oil for over a hundred years. Back in the day you rode your horse until it was tired, then let it have a drink from the creek, let it eat some grass then let it rest over night and off you go the next day. That my friend was freedom. I think a horse is good for 20 odd years then you grow a new one. Once the automobile was invented we gave control to the oil companies because lets face it unless your cooking some bio diesel they now decide where and how far you go and how much it costs you, who out there makes their own petrol ?
Solar, wind even and old school steam powered generator you throw coal in lets you create power to charge your EV that's not control, that's freedom. All be it within a couple hundred kilometre range 😉
Yep, kids tied into a loan for a 50-70k piece of Chinese 💩 that will be worthless once the loan is serviced, then they will have to buy another piece of disposable junk
Control? What in the modern world isn't?
@@MattBrownbill more control is the word. There is a big difference between solitary confinement vs living in an open air prison. Both may have some level of control but one is way more restrictive than the other. Pretending that just because govt and corporations have some control means that we should stop caring is just silly.
Keep your EVs, most of use want a less restrictive form of transportation.
@@uche007us society has its controls by definition. Not sure that EVs are a step too far though. Some might say taxes were. I don't feel controlled, but then I don't know a world without it. Not sure I would like it! Interesting topic though.
John - This is a perfect picture for the NRMA Annual Sustainability Report. You mentioned Kilowatt/hour yet you have not factored the ESG quotient. That overides Physics any day.
The most environmental friendly "bio-diesel" is scooped straight from pitch black deep frier to the tank of an ancient old MB clanker, that burns anything resembling oil. Does not smell like roses, (rather fries) but is true recycling.😅
There is nothing like the sound of a 5 cylinder Mercedes 300D. Add in an aroma of frying and that's Utopia.
The US also has plenty of places where even Gasoline/Diesel stations are sparse (ie maybe one gas station in a 100+sq/mi area)- but its less of an issue since ICE cars can go so much farther on a tank, and highways have plenty of stations (where Semi's would be traveling)
EV's are still a long way from being 'convenient' for anyone traveling even moderate distances regularly
John could you give your look on the "Geoff buys cars" & "The Mac Master" little sojourn from John O'Groats to Lands End and just how successful that was for the Porsche Taycan & the BMW 320i. with a studiously planned journey to keep costs to a minimum and with a thought given over to the depreciation in one week on both the vehicles.
Yeah that was really interesting
Erldunda... I stopped there with my late wife and kids in the spring of 1998. We all went to the toilet, had something to eat and drink, fuelled up the Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4, and went on our way south. Why did you make me remember?
Wow,this is the future! Now if we could only make the generator smaller fit it in a vehicle with a small fuel tank and then find I way to,directly drive the wheels we can dispense with those heavy batteries and electric motors. Kickstarter anyone?
What, like a mini and updated version of the 1915 Tilling Stevens Petrol Electric double deck bus I regularly used to drive for 15 years without a single breakdown?😀
Dont forget to add in the amount of diesel the truck used to put diesel in the generator in the outback.I am assuming these chargers will be every 200 kilometers from adelaide to perth.That means the fuel truck will have to stop about 13 times to fill the generators.I remember driving that distance in the car and there is no way i would want to stop and sit in that heat for a hour while the car gets charged
Mate . Very hypocritical. You got 10-15tonne tankers delivering diesel to
Petrol stations worldwide 24/7 what is the c02 foot print of that . Compared to say a van delivering a few hundred litres of diesel to a diesel generator for ev chargers. The amount of logistics involved in diesel and petrol is eye watering . I’m all for people having a go at EVs but when your completely pissing in your own backyard when you speak about diesel transport …it’s just too funny .
Not that I’m a fan of this EV greenwashing bs with diesel generators, but WTF is the difference between that, or hauling the diesel to a service station? It’s the same dang thing, either way.
The truck is already driving the same road to deliver to service stations. the extra diesel used stopping at a few more service stations is negligible.
8:03 the sun doesn't move (across the sky).😊😊😊
Errr heck no! Had a look at an Outback EV back in 2020. No emergency tire, not even a real spare - just a patch kit. Yup a patch kit. Useless if your tire totally blows out. So this was a hard no.
Good on you John for calling out these greenwashing Bullshit Artists. Someone has to do it!
I don't think there is 4 chargers. But 2 with CHAdeMO or CCS2
Probably right but he only used 2 x 75KW = 150kw for his calculations . Clearly he understands if 2 cars are plugged into the same 75kw charger then the 75kw is split between both.
Since barely anyone will ever use it, I think the generator could still be considered backup. In the rare case of two people using it on the same day 😂
The ‘back up’ diesel generator will be the one that is already in Erldunda. The NRMA failed to mention that. It is going all the time. We camped at Marla in 2018 and next to us was a Tesla taking up a powered site plugged in to the diesel generator that was powering Marla. No doubt the dickhead who owned the Tesla slept like a baby in his unit dreaming of how he was saving the planet. Jeff
I think you may have missed the stat's of the % of 4wd that don't stray far from the Burbs. Shopping trolleys, school pickups, trade utes, vans etc.
Until all diesel/petrol vehicles are banned by the zealots and then all 4 plugs will have to be used at all times!
Nice one John, again 🙂 I see a study where a Ford F150 will take 150,000 miles to become truly carbon neutral. I'm only 70 and bugger me, I haven't seen a lot of petrol or diesel Fords do about 241401.6k's recently. I also see Ford along with some other car makers are either cancelling EV's or cutting back production. Then insurances are getting harder to get for EVs. Really EV's, who'd friggin bother? Love ya work. (sorry, if you've already referenced the Ford F150 study)
I don't know why you'd have a problem with a ten hour wait time for charging your EV in the outback.
I just ran the numbers and it turns out that with that sort of time-frame you would be able to listen to Slim Dusty's 'Ringer From The Top End' about 1500 times between charges!
😂
If you own a Land Rover, you’re used to sitting around for hours on end. Those owners can make the transition easy.
@@thetowndrunk988Your right, a Land Rover will take you anywhere but if you want to get home again go in a Landcruiser. That’s why Landcruisers were invented, people got sick of walking.
I wrote on one car review site, that EV's for a failed concept. This was about 6 months ago. My were people upset.
There's a term for those clowns. EVangelists...
This biggest concern I have with that installation is local D*Heads who want to imagine themselves a hero by vandalising very expensive stuff owned by other people.
Hey JC. I think the solar roof is for the bay lighting and maybe keeps the generators battery charged🤣🤣best wishes 🇬🇧
Solar arrays also degrade in output as the backplane gets warm, stressing the thermal rejection of the semiconductors.
Also, the face of the cells need to be washed clear of dust, which would otherwise tend to block out the incident light. Unless you demineralize the washwater by running it through a column of ion-exchange resin, the limescale will build up, also obstructing the incoming light.
None of this touches on the service life of the PV cells, which is accelerated by the ambient temperature.
For anyone wanting an EV should watch the MacMaster from the UK and then make an informed decision.
Oh boy I can't wait for the follow "Nuts" Video John.
How do they get the diesel to run the generator to the site and at what cost ?
It comes in the same triple road train tanker that fills up all the other tanks to refuel ICE vehicles. Erldunda is a roadhouse that sits 200km south of Alice Springs, 246km East of Yulara, and about 180km north of Marla (in South Aust).
Having built a few of these type of shelters for mining companies. The solar array would only be there to run the lights and to start the gen set and whatever comms it may have to connect it to the outside world. It would not be used charge any car. I would suggest any suggestion the solar panels where used for car charging is coming from the overzealous PR department of NRMA.
We need a satire on free to air TV called “Electric Utopia”. The story is writing itself
From an engineering standpoint, this can still be better than running the car directly on diesel, provided that you do it right! Reciprocating internal combustion engines are at their most efficient at a constant speed, so these generators are probably already more fuel efficient than a car engine.
You could also add features that are impossible on a standard ICE car. For example, be waste heat recovery could now be viable. You cannot add this to an ICE car because the extra weight cancels out the efficiency gains, but in a static installation, this isn't a problem. It would also be much easier to use HCCI, because one of the achilleas heels HCCI is that it is very difficult to vary the speed of the engine, but again in a static installation, this isn't a problem. Another possibility is using more efficient engine geometries that are difficult to use on a standard ICE car, such as an opposed piston design, which has an awkward shape that is difficult to design a car around.
So, no it's not "all the same stuff", if you do it right.
I’m not sure how many EVs per week will use this facility, but my guess is it’ll be low. If the solar cells feed into a half decent battery (~85kWh) and there’s only one, or two, cars a week, it makes some sort of sense. Where it’ll get fun is if/when a Tesla car club goes for an outback tour and they end up de facto, rolling coal…
I think most teslas on earth are coal powered to be fair
I was hoping for diesel plug-in lol 😂
Thanks John, I succumbed to your spruiking and bought a 5KVA Bluetti power pack for my rural property.
It is charged from solar panels (the Bluetti has an input for solar panels).
A great feature of the Bluetti is that it easily tops up my EV when I take it out to the bush.
I might not have found this device without your sage advice.
I don’t think I’d be travelling too far away from your charger with that pissant power pack.🤣🤣
Sadly while capable of 5 KVA, unless fitted with several of the battery blocks to maximise stored energy in KWH, from memory the limit on that Bluetti is under 20KWH storage capacity, so only up to 20% on currently biggest car battery banks, or a bit more for most EV with under 100KWH battery capacity.
The 5KVA power delivery is liable to need up to 20hrs to charge the current biggest 100KWH EV battery, even if it had greater storage, but realistically runs flat long before fully charging the car. Choose the right EV, and you could have more mobile power capacity on hand and not even need the Bluetti much.
By the way, good choice going with Bluetti. I have four different capacity Bluetti units myself, to suit several different mobile and short term blackout power needs
The Mercedes 2 litres diesel engine weighs about 200 kg. add 66 kg for the 66 litres of diesel and you get 600 miles range.
The Y MODEL TESLA battery weighs 770 kg. Gets maximum 300 miles range in all year condition driving.
So in effect you're carrying 5 people weighing 100 kg BEFORE you add your own passenger or luggage.
The 66 litres of diesel gets lighter
I'm not Einstein and it seems that neither is elon musk
Question, What is powering the A/C for the batteries to keep them very very cool during the hot Summer Days where temps can be 40+ in the shade. And those panels will cook in no time during Summer. I lived in Central Australia for 7 years and everything gets hot for the 8 months of Summer. The hydrocarbons that produced the insulation for all the wiring in this charging station, hydrocarbons will be around for a very long time.
Actually, LPG should be used for the generators as diesel fuel decays has has to be refreshed when stored for long time periods.
Also in many cases LPG is more of a byproduct, thus cheaper and arguably more friendly to the environment. You can even use it as an additional fuel in a Diesel generator to make it run more efficiently over all.
In the company I worked for, the standby generators were diesel-fuelled, the problem was, that in remote locations the diesel had to be drained and replaced every 6 months. The engineer in charge had recommended using LPG (changing the newly installed gensets to LPG engines)as that could last forever, bigger tanks etc would be required, but long-term costs would be lowered, he was, of course, ignored.@@mjouwbuis
The biggest, the world's largest tesla supercharger station in the world is powered by diesel engines. It's in San Francisco. It's got 98 supercharging ports.
I believe a similar has already been on fire pics already on Y Tube
We have a friend that retired, bought a remote farm, but instead of paying to have grid power run down the almost 2 mile road...she decided to spend the money on a solar and battery system, with a "backup" diesel generator.
She hosted groups to gove tours and classes. Of course the house doesn't have AC or electric heat (soapstone central woodstove), propane range and waterheater.
After 5 years her husband finally put his foot down on the fraud as diesel reached $6/gal....because when nobody was there looking, she was running diesel all winter to keep the house and barn going. Their diesel bills were in the thousands.
Keep in mind our power comes from a hydro plant on the county line and the TVA grid....so grid power was already zero emission.
Not to mention that solar panels decrease in performance if they get too hot, as would be the case here, unless the wedge tail eagles all band together and provide some shade.....
In the UK a service station that sits next to a power station is using generators for its EV chargers as they do not have a good enough connection to the grid!
@AutoExpertJC, I am getting the popcorn machine ready for the comments you are going to be bombarded with.. cant wait for the post reaction 🙂 keep it up John. loving the videos and the raw content.
Meh. You must be disappointed. Nothing but the usual echo chamber praise. Whaddya gonna do? 🤷
@@rob1733The usual echo chamber praise? Hard to disagree with facts and good maths unless you are dealing with religo zealots. They will believe anything.
And no spare tyres?
Hilariously just got an Allianz ad for EV insurance. Funny they take the time to point out they cover all fire damage to batteries and chargers... I don't see my ice vehicle insurer using that as a sales pitch.. I wonder why.
But I wonder if they cover all the other fire damaged vehicles that the fire in your battery causes? Would they stump up for a "Luton" say? Food for thought.
I consider my 1992 landcruiser a hybrid, it starts on electricity and the petrol engine maintains the battery by way of an alternator...
😂😁👌
Due to livestock you only want to drive during daylight hours and rest and recharge at night
Regarding bioDiesel: a few of us hick farmers who have crunched the numbers know that on the most productive land it takes as little at 5% of the production (corn here) to fuel the farm with biodiesel. After the oil is removed, the animal food value of the "waste" from the biofuel increases for many species; AND there are additional energy streams as well (bio-gas and fertilizer from the manure, alcohol fuels from some of the carbs and celulose), as well as high protein feeds, and advanced fibers and resins for ultra high strength composits. Some of the income streams require much bigger investments than many farmers are able to make; however pressing oil can be done on the farm using a small amount of the biogas, and at less cost than a hired man for a year. Sometimes the stuff on the outside of a farmers boots smells exactly like what is on the inside of an engineer's boots are full of.
The batteries are likely there to power the lights (the photo shows them on while the sun has dropped below the horizon) and as another poster mentioned to possibly start the generators.
Dust doesn't reduce solar output all that much, there's a study done in Arizona which has less rain than most of Australia which shows there's pretty much no point cleaning panels as the % drop doesn't recover the $100 you'd pay someone to clean it. If it was under a tree getting covered in bird poop and tree sap it's different but the incidental rain in most of Australia cleans plenty enough dust off.
So now you can choose to power your vehicle using coal, or using diesel.
By going to a place like Erldunda you are choosing diesel.
Solar canopy and batteries makes good sense for outback charging, but the solar array on a canopy is not going to be sufficient to power a stationary storage battery to supply a stream of EVs wanting to charge at 125kW. They need to have a 1.1MW 5B Maverick solar array (an Aussie company) stationed NEXT TO the charging station (in addition to the solar canopy - a bit of shade is always nice), plus about 3MWh battery (eg a Tesla Megapack.) With 1.1 MW of solar and at least 3MW of storage, the diesel generator becomes largely redundant. You could still keep it there, just in case you get an entire convoy of EVs turning up at 1am wanting to recharge - but that's a fairly unlikely scenario. If demand increases, you just whack another 1 MW of solar and a second 3MWh megapack and away you go. The whole system is modular, there's plenty of real estate in the outback, so there's really no constraints on size and storage.
This whole thing is a chicken and egg situation. It will take time for the infrastructure to establish itself and the costs to come down to make it all more feasible in the future.
Hey John. Love your videos, as always.
On the topic of biodiesel, whilst I understand that it is NOT carbon neutral due to manufacturing processes, I would be very interested in your comparative take on traditional diesel vs. biodiesel, from inception to the pump.
There are also losses in the supply of traditional fuels to the pump. In your expert opinion, how do the two compare?
If you are interested in the BTUs difference between the two, I'm sure google can tell ya right quick.
SAAB introduced bio diesel vehicles decades ago,being a bio fuel it counteracted 80%of the damaging emissions from diesel.
Not a lot of interest,I guess you can't get too much revenue from plants🤔,as for the climate😂
oooof. Mr. Cadogan mentioned most of it. the cost to grow the plants for the oil.
farm equipment running on real diesel. trucks to ship it, running on real diesel,
add in processing it, lets use electricity of the energy for all the rest except for an ingredient or two
to convert the oil to bio-diesel add the costs of methanol and lye.
using just known and rule of thumb costs. a gallon of bio-diesel is:
3 dollars per gallon for the oil
approx .2 gallon of methanol for another dollar
and about 20 to 30 cents for the lye.
transportation and capital costs are added after that.
the equipment to process as little 50 gallons is an eye opener.
biodiesel only makes sense as a way to dispose of used cooking oil.
when using new oil the cost is often more than diesel.
have to add that there are processes to make biodiesel that do not use lye
and those use much more expensive equipment...
the plus is we have no good use for the leftover glycerine.
- Biodiesel or straight vege oil is only remotely "close to ecologically neutral" if the oil is recycled and reused after it would otherwise be discarded after a first use (highly unlikely regardless- in most use cases, as there are backhaul channels for most distributed vege oil - all the way to a used oil refinery. with alternate use cases for reformed product. Dumping fryer oil in the desert after making chips and burgers is unlikely to be an approved alternate proceedure.
- As a sunshelter/rain shade, over a charge point is useful, hence the materials used can be considered functionally neutral - to any other garage roof.
- a large genset charging a few EVs at constant load - for a given period - may be marginally more efficient than a brace of small diesel engines operating under variable loads - indeed.
Gensets like that generally run at a constant 1500rpm no matter what the load is. The more load you put on it the deeper the exhaust note also if fitted with a turbo charger it will whistle louder as the load increases .
Rapidly becoming my favourite channel
ya do know JC is not a climate denier?
@@President_NotSure climate change is real. All scientists for the past couple of decades have been quite accurately predicting what's happening
Yellow RAC in WA have similar setup. Also at Nannup as meany other country town I have seen diesel charging stations. A joke.
Not sure how they sorted out the exhaust from that diesel generator... If it just throws it right there to the environment it's gotta be fun for the people charging there, given the typical time to reach at least 80% charge...
Yes, and diesel cars have DPFs, ad blue and need to conform to strict emissions standards. Diesel generators DON’T!
Keep up... Just like in the Clark and Dawe sketch, "it's outside of the environment"...
John’s jamming it right into the electrical outlet of this charging station. And you didn’t even kiss it John.
Maybe he bought it a drink first?
@@oldbloke204one can only hope, it is dry out there
@@blackvulcan3 Dry as a Nullabor puddle most likely.
Larger static diesel generators generating 3-phase AC almost always run at 1500rpm (which is 25 revs per second, allowing the alternator to be set up to generate 50Hz AC). Sudden load will result in a momentary low frequency event, and coming off load will result in a high frequency event.
Many small 4-stroke diesel and some larger 2-stroke diesel generators run at 3000rpm.
American generators run at 1800 rpm. I'll let others guess why that might be.
60hz 110v?
John, you are right on regarding the bio-fuels. For a research paper by U of Wisconsin in 2022 search: 'Environmental Outcomes of the US Renewable Fuel Standard' for a study by Tyler Lark. Here is Tyler's bio:
Tyler Lark is a scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison's Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment (SAGE), where he leads research on U.S. agricultural land-use change and its impacts on our nation's land and water resources.
For those that do not look it up...the study found that bio-fuels were 24% worse than gasoline in the end.
A "Boy named Sue" springs to mind when it comes to kids names!
Thanks John, excellent report. Out of interest ,what do they charge (no pun intended) for the electricity produced way out there ?
He's not going to answer YOU.
Thanks John, people think energy conversion is 100% transfer but reality check there less.
Most gensets of 150KW are around 3 to 4ltr min ( engine would be 185 to 200KW).
The conversion between rotation energy (mech) to generated electricity is 70% to 85% due to parasitic load, fans, water pumps, 12v alternator, main alternator fan, main alternator heat loss etc, then charging at 90% to 95% inverter and energy recovery to battery, and the energy recovery from battery back to motors. A lot of conversion losses.
The diesel is just 15% of drive line loss.
I want a dingo piss creek t shirt anyone else out there ?
I'm looking forward to the follow up video and the voices for each person that has a counter argument.
That generator looks to be 50-60 kW. 150 is definitely way bigger.
Yeah the generator is there as backup to the battery and solar bank that’s also there. People also fail to understand that a diesel generator is way more fuel efficient than a diesel ice vehicle
@@rehanb637and it doesn't have to be 17:39 150kw. Battery is there to serve the peaks, solar and generator have to provide enough energy for daily needs only.
A 50kw generator, can in a day produce, 1200kwh, or enough to serve 24 cars a day from the generator only. Generator certainly doesn't have to be the same size as the maximum charging output, but having something closer to 1/2 of the max combined charger output would be best.
Solar array size is abysmal though. 20 kW array that is placed well, could provide 150kwh a day, on a sunny day. Even in best climates for solar, more than 30MWh a year from such an array Is considered very good, and on average that works out to 80kwh a day.
Assuming 1/3 utilisation of the charging station, 1200kwh a day is needed. Wanting to hit that average with solar, would need a 300kw solar array would be needed and a battery on the station would of course have to be able to handle the daily needs.
they have a lookout hill in Erldunda, at the north end of the caravan park, good place to shelter up wind of the runaway batteries. If the batteries are full the can put the excess energy into cooling a brine exinguisher system, could run the genset on the waste fryer oil from the servo.
You used all the words I think about this subject, so until we get a DeLorean like back to the future I will keep scoffing at these delightful ideas of those that want to be seen to appease.
Basically the same as big mining trucks, graders, other machines of that sorts size: driven by electric motors, power being provided by a diesel gen on board. All the benefits of torque across the whole speed range and no down time needing to recharge a battery bank.
Thanks for doing a video on this. So many car journalists have ridiculed that video from a journalistic, aka lack of understanding viewpoint. They put the usual journalistic effort in and deride those as fools who challenge them. Maybe we should abandon journalism and just recruit people from specific fields and give them a crash course on writing stuff to be journalists.
You mean like science communicators? I am pretty sure this is that
@@theairstig9164 science communicators are often journalists with journo degrees.
Or journalists could just check their facts with people who actually know things (used to be called "experts" back in the day), instead of just making crap up, or plagiarising one another..... Yes, I know, it's a daring and original idea, and will never catch on.....
P.S. I think most journalists have already abandoned journalism.
As hilarious as that picture is, it should be remembered that your average Exploding Vehicle charging station does get a great deal of its available electricity from the burning of fossil fuels anyway - at least this picture is a totally honest depiction of this fact 🤣🤣🤣
I thought we Germans were stupid, but you topped us with that. With this direct concept of 'clean charging'.
The company must sell this to the green german goverment! They will be rich .... more then pfilzer with their 'safe vax'
John…You are going to love the new 2025 Ram charger truck from Stellantis. 3 in 1 EV truck, ICE truck and a 175hp V6 petrol range extender/generator that doesn’t drive the wheels but just charges the battery and gives boost to the electric motors if needed. 150 mile range on batter and 690 with generator on.
This is very important work, JC. This renewables transition is bollocks.
The only way forward is nuclear. Probably now too late.
And those who start about the cost, I refer you to Snowy Hydro.
4 Swiss cities have nuclear piles right outside them.
So not necessary every 200 kilometres...
but an electricity grid would need to be installed...
@herkimersnerd8740
@herkimersnerd8740 Yes, precisely. Four or five large reactors will provide baseload 247 stable power at a very reasonable cost for over five decades. (At the same time, eliminating coal and gas from the energy system). That's over 80 per cent of our total emissions. Cars and trucks are around 10 per cent.
Do you know that there aren't enough available minerals to build batteries of the scale that would be required and that there's still no recycling capability for solar panels?
here is recycling for solar panels..shredding and recovery of constituent particles...@@yuglesstube
In the UK next to the civilisation it costs about £40k per fast charger ($80k aus)
In Canada they have an electric ferry it has a huge battery and is splash charged by two huge batteries at each end of the lake , lol
The cost of laying a fat cable to remote Aus would also be prohibitive…
I am sorry for EV lovers but as a worker in the power industry this dream will not come true for MANY years. The whole electricity network will need to be replaced if everyone were to suddenly want an EV. The cost of this will be more than the average tax payer has an appetite for or what the country as a whole can afford. This plus the fact that we would need to build a LOT more coal fired power stations to power these EV's due to there being no real meaningful way of 'fuelling' them with renewable fantasy power. We are decades if not centuries away from even getting close to this being a reality. If the government does not stop chasing votes from the lefty teal types and get a realistic plan on power, we wont have enough to go around even without any EV's. I will be buying a UPS with diesel back up to keep my beer cold! - i work in the industry and recommend you all do the same before the load shedding begins and it will be here before this decade is out.
I have no idea why small diesels hybrids aren't more of a thing. So much more efficient than a gas hybrid.