Scan Tool Almost Led Us The Wrong Direction!
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- 2014 Ford Taurus 3.5L. Client states she was in an accident and after the repairs were done the check engine light came on. In this video you’ll see some great test plans when dealing with similar symptoms. You’ll learn how to run a volumetric efficiency test and analyze fuel trims with the ATS lab scope. This includes a test drive with Andy and the Professor. They’ll then analyze that data and show you the results and what needs to be done to fix this car. Another great example of ways to TEST and NOT GUESS! Enjoy!
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YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST ,,,, YOU HAVE MORE EQUIPMENT THEN MOST DEALERSHIPS , YOU HAVE TECHNICIANS THAT ARE TRAINED TO THE MAXIMUM AND NOW YOU HAVE A RUclips CHANNEL THAT IS RISING MORE THAN INFLATION . SO ALL TECHNICIANS THAT CAME ACROSS THIS CHANNEL AND DON'T SUBSCRIBE ARE MISSING OUT ON A GREAT DEAL THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT PLEASE KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!👏👏👏👏
Thank you so much! We are glad you're enjoying it! See you on the next one!
You guys are really thorough and your customers are lucky to have you guys work on their vehicles.
Out of curiosity I wonder how this car was hit? Did it rear end someone? Back in the 90s my wife cracked up her neon. Left front fender 3600 in damages. Car acted up all the time. I drove it, my conclusion was the ECM wax damaged. Ended up getting into it with the service manager. They said no its not the ECM. I Hooked a friends scan tool up to it and outputs would go wild when it acted up. Not sure what their issue was. It was an insurance claim. Finally swapped ECM and all problems went away.
After an accident you can’t always see what a problem is. This vehicle would make sense if it took a front end hit for something to get jammed hard. You can’t see that after its fixed.
Great Diag!
I use clear nail polish as well. Just a tip, if using the gel (no acetone) nail polish, use a pocket UV light to cure the polish.
Or if using liquid electrical tape, use a small swab to apply instead of a brush
just found your channel glad i did happy to see someone using the ATS system thats what i want to buy one day. thanks for taking the time to share the videos with us .
Top shelf stuff guys. Added to my list of diagnostic go to channels.
Stay gold.
Need techs like you guys in every shop! I aspire to be as good as you one day professor!
I really appreciate the training you have provided.
We appreciate your support!
You guys are awesome! I’m so glad I came across your channel, see so many like minded technicians and the testing procedures and strategies are really great to see walked through so even an average person can watch and see how intricate finding the cause and issues with these vehicle are. I love your usage of the scopes it’s incredible how many techs stray away from ever using them. Please keep up the killer content!
Thank you for sharing your experience with us
you guys are killing it 👊 another amazing diagnostic !!!
Thank you Victor! We appreciate you!
Thank you very much. Outstanding video.
You guys are great I'm glad I found your channel, Keep the videos coming , You kinda do the same thing I do,' only there to diagnose 'but it would be nice to see the bonus footage of what actually was the problem
Really like your videos thank you for taking the time to do them. I have an escope as well made the switch from snapon about a year ago. Would love it if you could do some videos showing more of the features and capabilities of the escope. You are one of the few that I've found on RUclips, besides Bernie, doing videos with the escope.
Superb.
This video is very instructional.
Thanks for sharing
Yo Andy. You all don't have to apologize. Liquid clear nail polish always do the trick. Thanks again
Great video for the small pins I use hyperdermic needle ends
Great video, you guys really look like you love what you do.
Amazing Thanks for the great content Guy's👍
Special Thanks to Professor for such an awesome diag👍
Stay Safe Guy's👍
Awesome work guys❤
well done guys. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.I am lucky that I found your channel.
Welcome aboard! See you on the next one!
Awesome video guys!!
another amazing diagnostic !!!
Just started watching these vids. I like em!!
Its funny how you call out the wrong intake valve position (8:00 mark) like you did in the last video. I used to ALWAYS call out the wrong exhaust valve position(saying it was closing ,when it was actually opening) even though I knew what was occuring.
Ironically, it looks like the actual intake valve opening is off(I have not finished the video yet)
Thanks for sharing
A great find. Though the history of recent events is important to know, this video does show the importance of sticking to an exact routine of checks before reaching any conclusions. Good videos, guys. Keep them coming. Thanks 👍
We agree! See you on the next one!
Great video and thanks for the nail polish tip
Great videos. - I love the bloopers at the end!!
Been working on cars for nearly 25yrs….nothing wrong with those type of probes….it’s not like you cutting back the insulation with a pocket knife 😁. Keep up the awesome work!
Great video and having great resources helps tremendously. I have been using the Escope for about 13 years and it's a great tool. Looking at minute 18:00 the intake valve should close at 40 to 60 degrees after the BDC mark. It looks that your intake valve is closing about 95 degrees BDC which shows a timing issue. In which you verified it with good cam/crank signals. Just found your channel and enjoy the content.
Intake cam looks late
Hey could you explain me about the sudden rise of the pressure in the intake pocket after it hits the max vacuum in the pressure waveform. I have seen many videos explaning that the most bottom part of the expansion(power) stroke and intake (not the max vacuum valley) should share the same values ( same horizontal line ) . But in his waveform it can be seen that the intake vacuum pocket stays well above the baseline of expansion vacuum throughout the period until it compresses again. Is it there because the engine design or the jumped timing? Many thanks in advance.
You guys are awesome. My brother in law uses nail polish as lock tight.
Another reason to pierce wires is that backprobing can sometimes accidentally fix a pin fitment issue and confuse things further.
If you're offended by piercing don't attend a John Thornton case study class, he pierces everything.
lol yes, and he lives in the Chicagoland area, it is all in how you seal it up.
Great job, Thanks for another great video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice work
Found you guys on tiktok love the quick hit auto clips
I'm in southeast Alabama glad to find another tech in the southern USA
Thank you guys! Nice diag! You're awesome!
Thanks Xavier!
Brilliant again, Maybe we'll have bloopers like Diagnose Dan does, another fantastic communicator. 👍
Great idea. I'm sure we will have many of those! Lol
Well done fellas 👏
Thanks!
Good job
Hopefully you guys can do a follow up on that car with the repair. Thanks
Use MS paint and use transparent selections and you can overlay to scale both those waveforms to 720!!!!
Maybe they just tried to say it was related to the accident hoping insurance would cover it. Or the driver paid more attention after the wreck. Another good video and diagnosis!
So important tips
Good video 👍 ROTKEE is a good source to find waveforms they are mainly european vehicles and they accept any make off oscilloscope captures unlike Pico who only want to have a closed club 👎 thank you for taking the time and effort to make these videos
Thanks for the info!
A lot of people pull that after they get an accident. Oh, this is happening now or my batteries going dead. I’ve seen so many tricks in a book they don’t want to pay to have the problem fixed so they’re gonna try and dump it on the insurance company but you can always tell if it was accident involved or if it’s something else and 90% of the time is not because of the accident, they’re just trying to melt the insurance company that’s all they want somebody else to pay because they don’t want to pay which I can understand it. They don’t realize these big companies like this is just making a price has got higher and higher.
In the real world techs do what is the best/easiest way to access the data and signals needed.
I like the nail polish idea especially because you can still see wire color.
Also, was the incorrect PID values due to the codes being set/active ?
I've seen this on other cars.
Thanks also for the piercing and nail polish tip.
Liquid nail polish 🤓 thanks for the tip 👍
Any time!
Please explain the “substitution values”. Where are they generated, by the ECM or the scan tool? You said multiple scan tools showed the same substituted values.
How did you get the correct values to show? How do you know when you’re seeing a substitute value?
Great channel. Great discussion about diagnostics requiring “known goods”. And the difficulty getting good data.
I assume you bill for hands on and research even if you come up empty handed?
So, we can only assume this was a "substitution" value from the ECM because the Zeus and IDS both showed the same. What I think happened, prior to the code going current is what the ECM gives off as fault data. I.E., the code was pending, so it would give erroneous data. I had cleared the code prior to the first drive. I would have loved to verify this on another drive. However, the client did decline any repairs. So by the time I thought about this, it was gone.
Great video and who cares what other people say about poking wires.
Man I wish I had your job, you guys hardly break a sweat.
😂😂 We wouldn’t say that, but we will say that learning how to diagnose will help you as you get older and don’t want to turn and burn as much as the young guns. And it’s an extremely valuable skill. 🤑
@@theroyaltyautoservice would totally agree definitely a valuable skill. I would say 1 out of 10 techs actually are diagnosticians. Most are just comfortable r&r guys.
If u could, i would give u more than 1 like per video lol. What I get out of this video is that we need to have resources as far as obtaining crank-cam waveforms. It can be challenging at times. What is the Facebook page you always mention on your videos where u can get these waveforms? Again, thank you for sharing this video. Always looking forward to the next one! Greetings from San Diego CA
Thank you so much Joseph! We really appreciate your support! Two of the groups we use are “Automotive Waveforms Library” & “The Automotive Waveform Exchange (Known Good)”. Hope that helps!
Needs a water pump. Replace the primary timing chain also, they can stretch on that particular engine.
100% should be doing the water pump any time you're accessing the timing chain. This is very important. Thanks for pointing that out!
What specific clear nail polish are you guys buying? I don't wanna buy the wrong stuff and have a comeback. I love my piercing probes, just used them to diagnose an ADAS wire harness on a brand new palisade (accident damage, coincidentally) and liqui elec tape is kinda getting old.....and runny
You guys do great work and I do enjoy the videos. However, I don't see how you can be " half a tooth off ". I hear techs use that terminology quite frequently but have never understood how you can be half a tooth off of a sprocket when its designed to be held in the groove of the sprocket. I've never removed a timing cover and seen a chain sitting on top of the sprocket. Am I wrong from thinking that's impossible or are the other techs using incorrect terminology. I can understand if the cam adjustor has reached its max adjustment and that's why people see it on the scope and could think that its "half a tooth off " but that goes back to my original thought, that the chain isn't actually "half a tooth off" the cam adjustor has just reached max adjustment. Thoughts?
Can you do ve test with gm gds scanner please explain
What I noticed was the intake pull on initial capture was not as deep as the expansion pocket where the known good is even.
The other thing is the exhaust dips lower than intake. I saw that initially as well.
I’m considering a Zeus. One question no Snap-On rep has been able to answer yet; can it run the scope and scan tool simultaneously? For example, using scan tool bi-directional control to turn on a fuel pump while simultaneously scoping the current to the fuel pump?
it would be nice to have a follow up to show what the fault is / was belt chain jumped crank pully crank reluctor moved thank you for doing the videos
We wanted to but client declined the job after her insurance rejected the claim. She’s driving on it like this unfortunately.
@@theroyaltyautoservice thats gone and spoiled the fun keep up the good work
would like to see the during repair a few clips and after repair how the car is running
That was the plan, but then she didn't get her claim approved and she didn't want to do the timing work. Next time we will though!
Do you like es load pro? Thanks for the lesson....
Personally no I do not.
Qhat do you guys think of power probe wire piercing tools?
Love the diagnostic videos! Do you guys charge a higher door rate for diagnostics?
Our diagnostics depends on the make and the situation. We are working every day to develop new plans to make sure we get paid properly for diagnostics. If a client has been messing with it themselves we usually charge 2 hours labor AT LEAST to start when getting into it. Hope that helps a bit!
@@theroyaltyautoservice it does, thank you!
Just wondering, is the ecu fooling everyone, or something has changed mechanically?
The car designers don’t care that their creations are going to break down and some poor technicians are going to have to figure out what’s wrong with their crap. From 🦘🦘🦘🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Hi I love hour videos do you know if the scope you use is Available in South Africa?
What made you decide to go with ats scope over a Pico. I never had opportunity to use the ats but have used Pico many times. I have a Snapon on of my own that I bought off a tech that didn’t understand scopes. I thinking of upgrading. Ats looks very nice. Does it have advantages over the Pico. Also great video! I think I have met you before. You did a class but don’t remember what company it was.
I've used ATS for a very long time and am very comfortable with it. It's biggest advantage is the vertical resolution. We need to do a video where we show how that really sets this scope apart. I have Pico also but rarely use it. Nothing wrong with Pico it's really just personal preference.
Nail polish, a key take away. 😊
I am not sure why you would take a drive checking fuel trims and stuff like that witb a CC corelation code. Lack of power would have been obvious from the customer and the in cylinder was a waste of time. Why not go straight to the scope for the CC waveforms and nail it in one
Agree always start diagnostic from base engine special if ecm told you something is not right with base engine
Grt job guys, hey Andy how did u get to s GA from indy, ha ha I know roads lol, serious how did u get hooked up with professor? What's the best pizza place where you guys are, actually what city are u in.
Mike talked about the shop was looking for someone in a technician forum. I talked with Mike, he had Sherwood reach out, and we made it happen. I loved working with the guys. We unfortunately had some family stuff happen and we had to move back to NW Indiana. The ONLY place to get pizza is Chicago everything else is just trying ;)
I like your video but you should show the problem and what you did to fix it.
We wanted to show it, but unfortunately the insurance denied her claim and she didn't want to tear it down to continue so we could see the culprit. We will show fixes though in future videos!
@@theroyaltyautoservice Good deal!
Known good should be the responsibility of manufacturers. They need to make those available to techs... Seriously
That would be nice. We won't hold our breath. Lol
I just looked on AESWAVE, I don't see those wire piercing probes, do you have a link?
You know, I just looked too. They are no longer offered by them. :( Pomona piercing probes are my go-to outside of Phil's Probes.
That in cylinder waveform had a pocket between the exhaust and intake valve events. This engine has a vvt system but in my experience every engine I’ve tested has had overlap. That pocket is indicative of a late ivo which creates a small pocket of vacuum in the cylinder prior to the ivo. At least on that bank the intake valve opening event was retarded. I’m only halfway through the video so let’s see if I’m right.
Could we get a in depth tutorial on using the ats
Absolutely! That will be a great video to do! I’ll let the professor know. He’s been using it the longest!
Bernie and Jeff with ATS are supposed to actually be working on this. We talked to them at Vision
👍
yoooo
Chevy Thunderrrrrrrr!!!!!!
We love your channel brother. Appreciate the support!
i back probe wires all the time.. Nothing happens.Nail polish works great.
i like what you guys do but silver repeats himself frequently, repeats himself frequently, frequently 😂
My thoughts exactly. That’s something I do agree with you. I was about to say the same thing. Over n over :)
LOL He's just trying to drill down the point. We will talk to the Professor though. ;)
That’s how you learn 🙄🙄 look up the statistics on how many times people need to hear something for it you stick
Piercing probes are okay If use those correctly and fix insulate afterwards. Sometimes that backprobing IS a bich. My old automotive teacher would kill me If he would see me piercing 🤣
👍👍👍👍
Good diag guys thanks for sharing
What is the solution !???
It’s a timing issue. We quoted a timing chain kit on it with phasers!
Clients with complaints?
I am ok with not being definitive but the intake valve is way out of time IMHO as it did not close until 630* or 90* past BDC, and the downward slope when it opened should be midpoint at typically 380*, still watching. Scan Tools Lie, Scopes Do Not Lie. To get the PICO Waveform Database you must also have an Automotive Level Scope, not any PICO Scope. OK, Exh could be acceptable but now we can see that both cams are pushed over to the right or retarded. To play with the OVERLAY it's best to use the Microsoft for W10 app as it pastes your pic on PAINT and you can play with it there to fit it to your needs. The most dangerous place to back probe is at a computer, your needle gets pushed in, it then touches the pin, it gets pushed in a little more and it grounds itself on the computer case, now you are out of a computer out of pocket. The CON of piercing is at the location where you pierce, and the wire is broken just beyond that point so if you don't get what is expected on the scan tool but you got a voltage via the pierce, now it is time to check with a WIGGLE test or continuity or load test of real strength so piercing is not perfect but you are typically pushing and pulling a probe in and out of a weather packing trying to get contact which can give you the same CON with a broken wire an inch away and the same routine is still required to find the true fault in a wire. I do not see your Ford video with a repair for this engine timing, this will lose you viewers, they want to see the problem and the timing alignment marks as a minimum all the way around, this is a common courtesy on RUclips and in the Forums/Groups to show the proper repair at least in a pic if you do not want to do a tutorial, guys. Shops that hide information are looked down on as not wanting to share when utilizing a sharing format such as YT. I will be finished with all your videos in a couple more days, as of today's date, there are about a dozen videos that don't peak my interest in diag-type stuff.
apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pressure-waveform-overlays/9NGWMCX2RMTH?hl=en-us&gl=us
FIRST THING YOU DO IS CLEAR THE CODES,,,, THEN SEE WHICH ONES COME BACK, ,,..
Have to love ford…….. substituted values!! What a joke of a manufacture!
👍
My Mentor Royal Auto Service
QUICK-WITTED Royal Auto Service
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 22:37pm
Nick, your comments are awesome and we are so grateful! See you on the next one!
A
Good video guys!