Having worked in product management for 5 years and also a decade in various jobs, my golden rules are: 1. Focus on mastery, passion will follow. Your talent is more important than your passion. Your passion can destroy you but not your talent. 2. Make career choices based on culture as well as skills. 3. Look beyond the obvious careers. There may be much more that can interest you. You never know till you try to look for these. 4. Be loyal to people, not companies. Everyone are just pawns to companies and can be dispensable. I was let go twice in my working life.
always been curious about product management,I wonder if that's possible for me coming from sales. could you share more about what a career in pm is like? and any important skills you'd advise on developing for this job. thank you :)
@@TSNicole Personally, I feel that a product manager is like a firefighter. You will face a lot of challenges especially from both internal and external stakeholders. Sometimes the ideas that can be irrational but they expect you to build these features regardless of how stupid the ideas are. You are the person in the middle of everything meaning that you will work with various teams such as marketing, customer service and tech. Don't confuse project management as product management. They are quite different to be honest. Most companies here don't understand the difference between these 2 fields. Project management focuses on the "How to build" whereas product management focuses on the "What to build". Product management can be branched into 2 areas, product marketing and product development. I am more towards product development which is more of building features for digital products. If you are from a sales background, the skills that you can build will be the technical acumen which is understanding how tech works such as digital applications or mobile applications. The other skills will be negotiation, business acumen and user experience. Lastly, you will need to learn to say "no" to stakeholders at times. Otherwise, you will be burdened with a lot of unproductive work. I moved away from product management because I find that the mindset and culture here is not yet ready for product management to thrive. Most of the C-management say that they want to be innovative but they are still doing things the traditional way and not willing to take risks.
I’m currently going through what you went through, I’m 28 but I feel like others have their sh*t together while idk what I want to do in life yet. It’s so refreshing to watch this video and your POV. Thank you
Same. Feeling like im at a cross road at 28. Feeling like my next decision has to dictate the rest of my career of my life. And so afraid that it doesn’t pan out that way. Just want to find something where I enjoy and can be good at.
@@kimberlyfxy Same. 28 y/o this year. I transit from white collar to blue collar job.... yes it's less stressful but I question what's my purpose everyday and what am I going to do in life for a career.... I think the best mental frame to put ourselves in is there is no timeline to have it all figured out.
Hi Pat, I went through (and still going through) very similar life journey as you. I was also an ex-sq crew, went through all sorts of jobs (pet groomer, hospital admin staff, hospital executive, blood bank executive & phlebotomist, clinical research associate etc) after leaving SQ, married my ex-sq husband who became a business owner in the healthcare industry and we also have our own fertility issues having gone through 2 IUIs, 6 IVFs, 2 Ectopic pregnancies and endometriosis. My sigma male husband told me the same thing to quit my job (when he notices that I am not happy) and I am proud and grateful to say that I am a full-time housewife now (no off days, AWS btw lol). I get things done around the house (we also have 2 cats and a dog) so he doesn't have to worry about domestic matters so he can focus on his work. The home is his safe place to come back and unwind. Although he brings in the dough, I make the bread. We are both doing our part in this marriage. We do not need to feel inadequate in any way because we don't compare. See & know your value and that's enough. 😊
This episode is sooo seebey real, brutally honest and sooooooo loving… I watched it twice!!! Such a perfect match!! Like the saying goes: it takes 2 to clap and 一个要打，一个愿打，
Thanks Pat for being honest and open about your career journey. Love how supportive John is towards you, and you towards him. Both of you provide the safe space for each other to grow at your own pace. That’s the power of secured relationship. Love such content.
John work hard to be your safety net.. so sweet .. I like John’s honest and wise experience opinion. Having a friend like that is great as well! .. I love pat’s opinion as well due to the honesty. First we must know what we like a job. Don’t force yourself to do something u don’t like
I just graduated from uni and will be starting a new job next month, imo the job is nothing more than just 'the next right move' - more like a decision made out of fear, not drive. I resonate a lot with Pat about her career journey. Being a jack of all trades + wanting a meaningful job is confusing, you are driven to work to witness the impact of your contribution but this satisfaction plateaus in some/most corporate places, it is a slightly different from doing something out of passion/interest towards certain skill/industry, the satisfaction spikes/comes in waves - or at least that's how I see it, having tried several jobs that are different in nature. Really enjoy this ep, I find comfort in it 💖
Congrats on your new job! Passion is fleeting and can sometimes lead you astray - your job satisfaction will grow as you figure out what you’re good at and what you define as meaningful engaging work. Take it from a 30 year old who followed their passion and ended up lost. I highly highly recommend checking out the career guide articles by 80,000 hours! I’m going through them now and this would have been life changing had I read them as a fresh graduate.
You can only do this if you're lucky you have someone like John to fall back to. Taking a career break for other people could means no food, no rent, and etc... not everyone has the luxury to do that. Agree with what John said
@@mkmk-po3yh Yea I’m lucky in that sense. But I also thought about what if I didn’t have John. If I saved enough to get by my expenses, I think I will still take the break. So it all goes back to your own financial safety net. Pat
Remember that as an employee, you're working to fund your boss' dream. He is living his dream life because of your contribution, so it has to work both ways. If your boss doesn't appreciate you and deem you as another dispensible minion, leave. Remember that people will always treat you the way you allow them to treat you. If you boss disrespect/ disregard your needs, leave. Companies will always try to pay you as low as they possibly can an amount they think will pacify you in order to maximise profits. The boss can only look good when the employees look good. It's a 2-way street, don't let any boss tell you otherwise.
v relatable Pat :/ would be interesting to hear John's POV since he mostly sets the tone (as employer) so what happens when the passion is gone/job isn't bringing joy/meaning? vs as an employee where you have to make it work with the culture/rewards set by the firm
A very interesting vlog. Sometimes when it gets hard, take a step back, relook and move forward. Focus on a purpose and branch out. Always take a short breather to refresh your mind.
Really good sharing. Many ppl have this fear of quitting their job due to the sometimes unfounded negative consequences. Like rice bowl gone, is it easy to find a new job again etc. Without thinking the other side of the coin should you stay at the job, the mental and physical turmoil (on health)
What are you talking about? Quiting your job is never a good idea unless you have other things lined up like another job or start a business. Its downright suicidal if you quit your job without any plans. She can do that because she has a high income earning husband. Try doing that if you don't. You'll be a miserable unemployed sod
@xxxcool2565 Good point. But would you rather try to tough it through a toxic work enviornment if your mental/physical state is unable to take it? Have friends in ib who had to be rushed to a&e due to health issues Of course if one has 0 savings then yeah you don't really have much of a choice but jobs are everywhere if we aren't picky. Hence the need to always have 6 to 12 months emergency funds at all times.
@@xfall86 depends on how deep pockets you have, right? But i don't buy the toxic workplace, or mental state unable to take it BS. Most of these "stress" are self inflicted. One just need to look at the big picture like is tgis job more stressful or is living in a wartorn place like Palestin or ukraine more stressful? Where you don't know if you will live by end of the day, tomorrow or next month? Where hunger, disease and serious injury are a very possible occurance. That's stressful. Your job? Wth?!? Do what you can. If you can't what is the worse that can happen? Your employers sack you? Fine. You are willing to quit your job anyways. What's there to stress about?
23 this yr, started my business 3 years ago. the past 3 years was literal hell. My mental health was always not stable especially working with my mother and older sister. Many business men and women also wanted to control me and my business as they try to step in and that gave me more unnecessary stress than i already had. This year they left the company and i have never felt so free. i found trustable shareholders that i can work with that respect my boundaries vice versa. After 3 years of struggling, i would say, it is all worth it.
that's incredible that you pulled through. a lot of businesses do not get past first 2 years or even 1 year... I myself just got started 1 year and at a point where I am trying to consider whether to continue.
Thanks for such an honest sharing, Pat. I found many of your points really relatable and appreciated how articulate you were about your concerns throughout your career journey. The conversation with John on purpose was also insightful and offered differing perspectives. While purpose may be innate, the amount of time we spend at work often drives us to seek work that contributes to or impacts a bigger goal. It is valuable to have an open discussion around the topic and acknowledge that both sides are valid. Also the conversation about how your careers have impacted your relationship was meaningful. While you both appear highly compatible on screen based on your videos, it is clear that you have put in a lot of effort into your relationship. Your experiences have provided a lot of food for thought - thank you for sharing!
This video really spoke to me, really thank you Pat and John for being so raw in sharing your thoughts and opinions towards each other. Allows us to see both sides of your thought processes ❤ +1 subscriber supporting both of you in your respective journeys!
Im so glad you posted this. I just started my first FT job after graduating from uni, i just took whatever job that wanted me without much consideration bc i was desperate, 5 days in and i already hate it and even dreading to go to work, and i have nvr felt this way when i was doing pt previously (where i stayed for like 2 years doing pt admin work). The fear of telling my RO i want to leave and also how embarrassing it may be to say i want to quit so quickly and not everyone around me are supporting my decision. so im very stuck right now and it has been really affecting my mood everyday :') But really grateful for your content. Its very real and relatable .
i totally get you! i was also a fresh uni grad and took the first job that came my way, thinking it suited me based on the job scope. but lmao i was wrong. spoke with my supervisor who was very understanding, and thankfully, my friends and family were supportive of my decision. so, i ended up quitting after a month lol. now, im in a new job, and it's so much better than my previous!! jiayou 💪
@@hyellown Thank you for sharing your story! So happy for you to have the courage to leave !! Alot of factors for me to consider , and especially because the job market now isnt looking good 🥲 afraid that if i leave i wont be able to find another job.
@@Jonjonwho be sure to find a new job before quitting! i didn't follow that advice because i was so eager to leave hahaha, ended up spending a few months job hunting again but alls good 😀
I just quit my job without another job line up. Kinda having job anxiety like “will I be able to find another job with similar pay, will I be able to adapt to new environment and get along with colleagues etc”
I think Im going to through the exact same and able to relate how Pat feels, feeling stuck, always wanting to look for the fulfilment in a career and do more but still not yet found. Thanks for providing your views on this, you both . ❤
Thanks for sharing this Pat! and also really helpful pov from Jon as well. I also went thru a lil bit of a twisty career path myself so I found sooo much solace and comfort in this sharing. Jiayou!!
Omg its so relate to me. I'm in this position, this is my 7th job and I'm 31 this year. When all of my friends already on their 4-5th year 😢. Sometimes i'm questioning myself why I cannot focus and tahan to be in a company for more than 2 years.
honestly, i feel like i needed to hear this 2 perspectives. I also just tendered and feel a crushing guilt for not trying to tahan further.. Thanks for this video showing the perspective of the person "tanking" finances, because I think it helps me see the point my husband was trying to make.
Thank you for sharing this video Pat. It gives a good insight from an employee's POV and also thank you John for your insight as an employer. It really helps to give me more thoughts in terms of career progression, why I do what I do, am I happy with what I do? And also thank you for sharing a small tip of how to quit in a nice way? Or positive sight, to at least part of good terms etc. Really great sharing as it really resonates with me.
Very inspiring and holistic sharing. I’m walking the same route (diff industry, same journey) as you and also did ask myself if SQ was a mistake, but I knew there were experiences and exposures that helped shaped my prob solving, perspective, and leadership skills. Thank you for the awesome sharing!
was in the same lift as pat in one of the cbd building few months back and i only realized it when i heard pat's voice!! 😂😂 pat's dressing and appearance got the girl boss look, i love it!
Really enjoyed this exchange. Currently in a similar predicament with my spouse and have similar feelings as Pat about whether I am burdening my spouse. Agree with John that the "quality" of the spouse is also important in how supportive the other party is (e.g. do they spend frivolously). Also really liked the part about connecting the dots - we can only connect the dots when we look back. Wishing Pat and all of us good luck with our careers!
Hi Pat, I can really relate to your experience of trying to chase happiness from career but not being able to find the fulfilment; there always seems to be an emptiness. I also job hop a bit and tend to resign once i've hit 2 year mark. In fact I just resigned from my role (also nearing the 2 year mark) without anything else lined up because I lost motivation and no longer found purpose in my role. My mental and physical health also crashed (amongst many other reasons haha). I too think there is a problem with myself but on the other hand, why is it wrong to want to seek fulfilment and purpose in our day jobs? We spend so much of our time at work, it only makes sense to do something that makes us happy But happy for you that you're currently enjoy your role :) All the best!
@@alwy16 hello. Take time to recalibrate and reframe your mind k. Through my break, I realised that my issue might not be about work, but it was about my state of mind. Nobody knows what the future holds and what they are actually doing. Don’t overthink. Reset your mind and everything will fall into place. I wish you the best in everything you do. Pat
😭😭😭😭 to feel like theres always someone there to support emotionally, financially is so freeing. Suddenly you dont have to worry as much that life is doomed and you can focus on living. Wished i had that. This not only applies to being in a relationship. This also applies to having siblings, parents or whomever will be your support.
Best episode yet!! Especially the part where Jon talked about seeking a purposeful life, it’s so well said I replayed it 3 times!! I think it’s something all burnout millennials need to hear and reflect upon. Also big thanks to Pat for being so open about your career path 🫶
@@JOHNPATCROSSthanks for sharing. I like how real you are. Appreciate your insightfulness in the jobs you were in. Do have more vlogs and jiayou sis ❤ life is a journey after all. 😊😊 Indeed John is great blessing I realise you all look alike too 😊
My partner shared this vid with me and I really relate on Pat’s career journey. My thinking is that my work already takes up like 70% of my time so might as well do something that makes you fulfilled in the long run. My partner on the other hand is exactly like Jon and would rather use his salary to enjoy things outside his work.. 😂
Hey there! I love your vlogs!!! I am a Malaysian living in Australia and have been in the workforce here for about 5 years now. And it is very normal to jump from one company to another every year. We are also not allowed to have our DOB on our resume to avoid age discrimination. I started off as a matured grad and very thankful for the opportunity as I don't think that would have happened had I chose to do it in Msia/Sg.
Many "good management" jobs in Singapore require referral from friends / family rather than just skills alone. This is why study hard / being smart or talented is useless. You need 人缘 and 关系 instead.
first off, v cool sharing pat! re putting in the effort to make the job the best job.... I do wonder if John may be projecting the fact that he is himself a good boss worth an employee's 120%, v.s. the fact that most bosses really aren't like that, and would just take such employees for granted. especially when outside of a start-up (e.g. banks, mortgage firms), your boss won't be a founder, but just some middle manager who also equally doesn't give all that much of a shit about making the COMPANY succeed, or the employees who sell their soul for the company's success. even in big banks and corporations - the CEO is no longer the founder, but just someone hired to run the business too. they're just managers and not the pioneers with all that much of a sense of ownership. it's quite different compared to start-ups and SMEs. and even within the start-up space, john's integrity as a boss is also a rarity. so without knowing more info (maybe pat really damn cui lol), i do think pat probably did put in a solid try with each job lah.
Hello! Thank you leh. I really think I did give it my all luh. Hahahaha! But I don’t deny the fact that maybe, the problem is me. Since I’m the one hopping. I just don’t think I should shortchange anyone if I cannot or don’t give my 100% to an org. Pat
@@JOHNPATCROSS hmm yeah lor. i guess to clarify, of course not 100% sure what john means lah. just going off imperfect interpretation from listening to u guys. but to put a number on it, what I'm saying is that I'm fairly sure you put in your 100%, or even a solid 95%.. most people would. but the 'sell your soul for boss and company' kind of effort is really reserved for bosses that are worth that effort. and usually by the time u put in that 95/100%, you can tell if they are that sort who would appreciate it.. and sad truth is that most won't lah.
@@JOHNPATCROSS o yeah, btw kudos to you two being able to have a mature and honest exchange. the 'u ask until like that you want me to be honest or not' and the fact u said 'yes be honest', and then john dared to give the honest view, and then that you could accept his honest view.... that was a v mature exchange!
Omg! I’m like u too and yes so thankful u made this video! Wah, I thought that I’m the only one being like this and those employer will think that I’m a job hopper or am I siao, that kept on changing jobs. And I was also from ed industry and then jumped to corporate world and now I’m lost and stuck dk where to go tbh.
I feel like your journey isn’t “embarrassing” or “shameful” because 20s is the decade whereby a lot of people are figuring things out and trying different things. I don’t believe in allowing a job to destroy one’s mental health either. Since you have a blessing of safety net(s) there’s nothing wrong with making use of it too. All the best in your career!
ᑎIᑕE.. like that comment.. Grass is greener where u water it.. hahaha I also has another saying.. the grass do look greener at the other side, but u dunno what's underneath it..
Thanks Pat for sharing your story! I’m curious about the project management field but I have 0 experience. Any advice on how one could get into that field ? Or do I need to sign up for one of those PM certifications
If you changed jobs so many times, by now maybe realise you are not the type that can be a salary worker. You have to go freelance or create your own business.
Enjoyed watching this video, and it made me think about my own experience, and also how my partner and I went through this process together before! I shared the video with her and got her to watch it so we can talk about it like how you guys did 😂
Can Pat share what were the things she learnt from the book Manifest that help her get enlightened? (For those who fall asleep on Page 2 of reading any book).
i've read that manifest book and also the newer version (blue one).. but that was before i was born again. i now understand that "manifesting" and the like is occult/pagan and very unchristian, be careful!
As an HR professional, I wouldn’t forward this CV to the hiring manager because of the short tenure between jobs. Leaving a position after just three months indicates a lack of commitment, not just dissatisfaction. It suggests that you're only willing to stay in a job when survival depends on it. But with John as a safety net, the urgency to fully commit isn’t there. This pattern raises concerns about your reliability and dedication, which are critical factors for any potential employer.
@@RoyHyhel I would be doomed if all HR thinks like you. Hahahaha! Nobody likes changing jobs. The anxiety of meeting new people and easing in, is not something I’d like to go through every few months. For me to leave after 3 months may be a red flag to you, but I think it shows that I am clear of what I look for in an organisation and that org clearly does not align with me. Interview goes both ways. While you are interviewing candidates, know that they are interviewing you too. Most companies have a probation period of 3 months, that’s when you determine if you’re the right fit for each other. If the company has the right to let one go during that period, i think it’s fair that I can choose to leave if I don’t find that the company is right for me too. As a HR professional, I hope you can empathise a bit more rather than to cast your judgement so quickly. 🥺
@@JOHNPATCROSS You make a valid point! The job search and interview process definitely goes both ways. As candidates assess whether a company is the right fit for them, it's equally important for HR professionals to understand that alignment with company culture and values is crucial for long-term satisfaction. This is also why it's essential for candidates to ask the right questions when given the opportunity during interviews. However, 90% of the time, candidates either don’t ask the right questions or try to act smart, which can lead to misunderstandings later on. From an HR perspective, it can be challenging when a staff member leaves within 3 months, as it can feel like a significant investment of time and resources has been wasted. Balancing this with the need to find the right fit is crucial, and it's something we're continually working on improving. I'll definitely keep your perspective in mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I must say Pat, you found a great spouse.
And to John, you are an awesome man in this relationship.
Keep it up!
Having worked in product management for 5 years and also a decade in various jobs, my golden rules are:
1. Focus on mastery, passion will follow. Your talent is more important than your passion. Your passion can destroy you but not your talent.
2. Make career choices based on culture as well as skills.
3. Look beyond the obvious careers. There may be much more that can interest you. You never know till you try to look for these.
4. Be loyal to people, not companies. Everyone are just pawns to companies and can be dispensable. I was let go twice in my working life.
always been curious about product management,I wonder if that's possible for me coming from sales. could you share more about what a career in pm is like? and any important skills you'd advise on developing for this job. thank you :)
@@TSNicole Personally, I feel that a product manager is like a firefighter. You will face a lot of challenges especially from both internal and external stakeholders. Sometimes the ideas that can be irrational but they expect you to build these features regardless of how stupid the ideas are. You are the person in the middle of everything meaning that you will work with various teams such as marketing, customer service and tech.
Don't confuse project management as product management. They are quite different to be honest. Most companies here don't understand the difference between these 2 fields.
Project management focuses on the "How to build" whereas product management focuses on the "What to build". Product management can be branched into 2 areas, product marketing and product development. I am more towards product development which is more of building features for digital products.
If you are from a sales background, the skills that you can build will be the technical acumen which is understanding how tech works such as digital applications or mobile applications. The other skills will be negotiation, business acumen and user experience. Lastly, you will need to learn to say "no" to stakeholders at times. Otherwise, you will be burdened with a lot of unproductive work.
I moved away from product management because I find that the mindset and culture here is not yet ready for product management to thrive. Most of the C-management say that they want to be innovative but they are still doing things the traditional way and not willing to take risks.
@@FallenSaint88 thank you so much for sharing, very insightful!!
How do I pivot to project management? I have design and UX skills trying to make the switch
good sharing!
I’m currently going through what you went through, I’m 28 but I feel like others have their sh*t together while idk what I want to do in life yet. It’s so refreshing to watch this video and your POV. Thank you
Same. Feeling like im at a cross road at 28. Feeling like my next decision has to dictate the rest of my career of my life. And so afraid that it doesn’t pan out that way. Just want to find something where I enjoy and can be good at.
@@kimberlyfxy Same. 28 y/o this year. I transit from white collar to blue collar job.... yes it's less stressful but I question what's my purpose everyday and what am I going to do in life for a career.... I think the best mental frame to put ourselves in is there is no timeline to have it all figured out.
Hi Pat, I went through (and still going through) very similar life journey as you. I was also an ex-sq crew, went through all sorts of jobs (pet groomer, hospital admin staff, hospital executive, blood bank executive & phlebotomist, clinical research associate etc) after leaving SQ, married my ex-sq husband who became a business owner in the healthcare industry and we also have our own fertility issues having gone through 2 IUIs, 6 IVFs, 2 Ectopic pregnancies and endometriosis. My sigma male husband told me the same thing to quit my job (when he notices that I am not happy) and I am proud and grateful to say that I am a full-time housewife now (no off days, AWS btw lol). I get things done around the house (we also have 2 cats and a dog) so he doesn't have to worry about domestic matters so he can focus on his work. The home is his safe place to come back and unwind. Although he brings in the dough, I make the bread. We are both doing our part in this marriage. We do not need to feel inadequate in any way because we don't compare. See & know your value and that's enough. 😊
This episode is sooo seebey real, brutally honest and sooooooo loving… I watched it twice!!!
Such a perfect match!! Like the saying goes: it takes 2 to clap and 一个要打，一个愿打，
@@marcang4403 Thanks man! Really appreciate your support!
Pat
Thanks Pat for being honest and open about your career journey. Love how supportive John is towards you, and you towards him. Both of you provide the safe space for each other to grow at your own pace. That’s the power of secured relationship. Love such content.
John work hard to be your safety net.. so sweet .. I like John’s honest and wise experience opinion. Having a friend like that is great as well! .. I love pat’s opinion as well due to the honesty. First we must know what we like a job. Don’t force yourself to do something u don’t like
I just graduated from uni and will be starting a new job next month, imo the job is nothing more than just 'the next right move' - more like a decision made out of fear, not drive. I resonate a lot with Pat about her career journey.
Being a jack of all trades + wanting a meaningful job is confusing, you are driven to work to witness the impact of your contribution but this satisfaction plateaus in some/most corporate places, it is a slightly different from doing something out of passion/interest towards certain skill/industry, the satisfaction spikes/comes in waves - or at least that's how I see it, having tried several jobs that are different in nature.
Really enjoy this ep, I find comfort in it 💖
Congrats on your new job! Passion is fleeting and can sometimes lead you astray - your job satisfaction will grow as you figure out what you’re good at and what you define as meaningful engaging work. Take it from a 30 year old who followed their passion and ended up lost.
I highly highly recommend checking out the career guide articles by 80,000 hours! I’m going through them now and this would have been life changing had I read them as a fresh graduate.
You can only do this if you're lucky you have someone like John to fall back to. Taking a career break for other people could means no food, no rent, and etc... not everyone has the luxury to do that. Agree with what John said
@@mkmk-po3yh Yea I’m lucky in that sense. But I also thought about what if I didn’t have John. If I saved enough to get by my expenses, I think I will still take the break. So it all goes back to your own financial safety net.
Pat
Remember that as an employee, you're working to fund your boss' dream. He is living his dream life because of your contribution, so it has to work both ways. If your boss doesn't appreciate you and deem you as another dispensible minion, leave.
Remember that people will always treat you the way you allow them to treat you. If you boss disrespect/ disregard your needs, leave.
Companies will always try to pay you as low as they possibly can an amount they think will pacify you in order to maximise profits. The boss can only look good when the employees look good.
It's a 2-way street, don't let any boss tell you otherwise.
correct with no error
I rather work at a job that after work ends, the workload doesnt follow you home.
Cabin crew😂
Join nursing 😉
v relatable Pat :/ would be interesting to hear John's POV since he mostly sets the tone (as employer) so what happens when the passion is gone/job isn't bringing joy/meaning? vs as an employee where you have to make it work with the culture/rewards set by the firm
A very interesting vlog. Sometimes when it gets hard, take a step back, relook and move forward. Focus on a purpose and branch out. Always take a short breather to refresh your mind.
Really good sharing. Many ppl have this fear of quitting their job due to the sometimes unfounded negative consequences. Like rice bowl gone, is it easy to find a new job again etc. Without thinking the other side of the coin should you stay at the job, the mental and physical turmoil (on health)
What are you talking about? Quiting your job is never a good idea unless you have other things lined up like another job or start a business. Its downright suicidal if you quit your job without any plans. She can do that because she has a high income earning husband. Try doing that if you don't. You'll be a miserable unemployed sod
I am so sorry for your
@xxxcool2565 Good point. But would you rather try to tough it through a toxic work enviornment if your mental/physical state is unable to take it? Have friends in ib who had to be rushed to a&e due to health issues
Of course if one has 0 savings then yeah you don't really have much of a choice but jobs are everywhere if we aren't picky. Hence the need to always have 6 to 12 months emergency funds at all times.
@@xfall86 depends on how deep pockets you have, right? But i don't buy the toxic workplace, or mental state unable to take it BS. Most of these "stress" are self inflicted. One just need to look at the big picture like is tgis job more stressful or is living in a wartorn place like Palestin or ukraine more stressful? Where you don't know if you will live by end of the day, tomorrow or next month? Where hunger, disease and serious injury are a very possible occurance. That's stressful. Your job? Wth?!? Do what you can. If you can't what is the worse that can happen? Your employers sack you? Fine. You are willing to quit your job anyways. What's there to stress about?
@@xxxcool2565 bro you do you la. ppl want quit their problem what...
John is so wise! Can really relate to what he said especially after getting older and experienced more things in life. Thank you for the video!
23 this yr, started my business 3 years ago. the past 3 years was literal hell. My mental health was always not stable especially working with my mother and older sister. Many business men and women also wanted to control me and my business as they try to step in and that gave me more unnecessary stress than i already had. This year they left the company and i have never felt so free. i found trustable shareholders that i can work with that respect my boundaries vice versa. After 3 years of struggling, i would say, it is all worth it.
that's incredible that you pulled through. a lot of businesses do not get past first 2 years or even 1 year... I myself just got started 1 year and at a point where I am trying to consider whether to continue.
Thanks for such an honest sharing, Pat. I found many of your points really relatable and appreciated how articulate you were about your concerns throughout your career journey. The conversation with John on purpose was also insightful and offered differing perspectives. While purpose may be innate, the amount of time we spend at work often drives us to seek work that contributes to or impacts a bigger goal. It is valuable to have an open discussion around the topic and acknowledge that both sides are valid. Also the conversation about how your careers have impacted your relationship was meaningful. While you both appear highly compatible on screen based on your videos, it is clear that you have put in a lot of effort into your relationship. Your experiences have provided a lot of food for thought - thank you for sharing!
Pat thanks for sharing your struggles openly. Love your relationship ❤
This video really spoke to me, really thank you Pat and John for being so raw in sharing your thoughts and opinions towards each other. Allows us to see both sides of your thought processes ❤ +1 subscriber supporting both of you in your respective journeys!
@@Howdypanda hello! Thank you so much for your support. 🙏🏼
Im so glad you posted this. I just started my first FT job after graduating from uni, i just took whatever job that wanted me without much consideration bc i was desperate, 5 days in and i already hate it and even dreading to go to work, and i have nvr felt this way when i was doing pt previously (where i stayed for like 2 years doing pt admin work). The fear of telling my RO i want to leave and also how embarrassing it may be to say i want to quit so quickly and not everyone around me are supporting my decision. so im very stuck right now and it has been really affecting my mood everyday :') But really grateful for your content. Its very real and relatable .
i totally get you! i was also a fresh uni grad and took the first job that came my way, thinking it suited me based on the job scope. but lmao i was wrong. spoke with my supervisor who was very understanding, and thankfully, my friends and family were supportive of my decision. so, i ended up quitting after a month lol. now, im in a new job, and it's so much better than my previous!! jiayou 💪
@@hyellown Thank you for sharing your story! So happy for you to have the courage to leave !! Alot of factors for me to consider , and especially because the job market now isnt looking good 🥲 afraid that if i leave i wont be able to find another job.
@@Jonjonwho be sure to find a new job before quitting! i didn't follow that advice because i was so eager to leave hahaha, ended up spending a few months job hunting again but alls good 😀
This is so sweet and authentic. Thanks for having these hard convos with the viewers Pat! Love these
Totally agree w John. Work hard take $ go home n enjoy own personal life. Most important meaningful 8 hours spent in office.
I just quit my job without another job line up. Kinda having job anxiety like “will I be able to find another job with similar pay, will I be able to adapt to new environment and get along with colleagues etc”
@@streetsg you will find your way. You can’t open another door without closing one. It may take some time but it will find your way eventually
I think Im going to through the exact same and able to relate how Pat feels, feeling stuck, always wanting to look for the fulfilment in a career and do more but still not yet found. Thanks for providing your views on this, you both . ❤
Thanks for sharing this Pat! and also really helpful pov from Jon as well. I also went thru a lil bit of a twisty career path myself so I found sooo much solace and comfort in this sharing. Jiayou!!
Omg its so relate to me. I'm in this position, this is my 7th job and I'm 31 this year. When all of my friends already on their 4-5th year 😢. Sometimes i'm questioning myself why I cannot focus and tahan to be in a company for more than 2 years.
honestly, i feel like i needed to hear this 2 perspectives. I also just tendered and feel a crushing guilt for not trying to tahan further.. Thanks for this video showing the perspective of the person "tanking" finances, because I think it helps me see the point my husband was trying to make.
Thank you for sharing this video Pat. It gives a good insight from an employee's POV and also thank you John for your insight as an employer.
It really helps to give me more thoughts in terms of career progression, why I do what I do, am I happy with what I do? And also thank you for sharing a small tip of how to quit in a nice way? Or positive sight, to at least part of good terms etc.
Really great sharing as it really resonates with me.
Very inspiring and holistic sharing. I’m walking the same route (diff industry, same journey) as you and also did ask myself if SQ was a mistake, but I knew there were experiences and exposures that helped shaped my prob solving, perspective, and leadership skills.
Thank you for the awesome sharing!
was in the same lift as pat in one of the cbd building few months back and i only realized it when i heard pat's voice!! 😂😂 pat's dressing and appearance got the girl boss look, i love it!
Really enjoyed this exchange. Currently in a similar predicament with my spouse and have similar feelings as Pat about whether I am burdening my spouse. Agree with John that the "quality" of the spouse is also important in how supportive the other party is (e.g. do they spend frivolously). Also really liked the part about connecting the dots - we can only connect the dots when we look back. Wishing Pat and all of us good luck with our careers!
This was very insightful and relatable. Thank you for sharing this part of your life and as well as the journey. Always a fan of your content 🫶🏼
Hi Pat, I can really relate to your experience of trying to chase happiness from career but not being able to find the fulfilment; there always seems to be an emptiness. I also job hop a bit and tend to resign once i've hit 2 year mark.
In fact I just resigned from my role (also nearing the 2 year mark) without anything else lined up because I lost motivation and no longer found purpose in my role. My mental and physical health also crashed (amongst many other reasons haha).
I too think there is a problem with myself but on the other hand, why is it wrong to want to seek fulfilment and purpose in our day jobs? We spend so much of our time at work, it only makes sense to do something that makes us happy
But happy for you that you're currently enjoy your role :) All the best!
@@alwy16 hello. Take time to recalibrate and reframe your mind k. Through my break, I realised that my issue might not be about work, but it was about my state of mind. Nobody knows what the future holds and what they are actually doing. Don’t overthink. Reset your mind and everything will fall into place. I wish you the best in everything you do.
Pat
Thank you for sharing your stories, give me motivation to rethink and start doing things for myself.
Thanks Pat and John for sharing this. I really appreciated it. ❤
😭😭😭😭 to feel like theres always someone there to support emotionally, financially is so freeing. Suddenly you dont have to worry as much that life is doomed and you can focus on living. Wished i had that. This not only applies to being in a relationship. This also applies to having siblings, parents or whomever will be your support.
thank you guys for sharing!!!! love how authentic you are.. and addressing unspoken potential issues between couples (:
Best episode yet!! Especially the part where Jon talked about seeking a purposeful life, it’s so well said I replayed it 3 times!! I think it’s something all burnout millennials need to hear and reflect upon. Also big thanks to Pat for being so open about your career path 🫶
If you can't find a job that makes u happy, god send u a partner that makes u happy pat ❤
@@meesanunab4811 true that. I count my blessings everyday. :)
Pat
@@JOHNPATCROSSthanks for sharing. I like how real you are. Appreciate your insightfulness in the jobs you were in. Do have more vlogs and jiayou sis ❤ life is a journey after all. 😊😊 Indeed John is great blessing I realise you all look alike too 😊
My partner shared this vid with me and I really relate on Pat’s career journey. My thinking is that my work already takes up like 70% of my time so might as well do something that makes you fulfilled in the long run.
My partner on the other hand is exactly like Jon and would rather use his salary to enjoy things outside his work.. 😂
Really great episode! Really interesting sharing.. to see both of your opinions. If only most bosses think like John😂
Pat, youre such a good storyteller and i loved your story. Thank you for sharing :)
@@beefwhale thank you 🥹
Pat
Thanks for being so authentic and honest! Love this very relatable content esp about job hopping ❤
Hey there! I love your vlogs!!! I am a Malaysian living in Australia and have been in the workforce here for about 5 years now. And it is very normal to jump from one company to another every year. We are also not allowed to have our DOB on our resume to avoid age discrimination. I started off as a matured grad and very thankful for the opportunity as I don't think that would have happened had I chose to do it in Msia/Sg.
I may not align with Jon on his car choices, but I perfectly align with Jon in this video. 🎉
Wow after watching today vlog… I am very impressed with John and the way he thinks and handle things …
Many "good management" jobs in Singapore require referral from friends / family rather than just skills alone. This is why study hard / being smart or talented is useless. You need 人缘 and 关系 instead.
Some companies value loyalty but after a while, things get a bit mundane but work is work
I love Pat!!! 100% can relate and I cannot relate to John LOL 💀💀💀 but it’s ok to be different hahaha
LOVEEEEEEE this episode so much!
This is so relatable omggggg. Thats how i really felt vs what my husband wants to tell me !!! & its so accurate about how the gender thinks !!
first off, v cool sharing pat!
re putting in the effort to make the job the best job.... I do wonder if John may be projecting the fact that he is himself a good boss worth an employee's 120%, v.s. the fact that most bosses really aren't like that, and would just take such employees for granted. especially when outside of a start-up (e.g. banks, mortgage firms), your boss won't be a founder, but just some middle manager who also equally doesn't give all that much of a shit about making the COMPANY succeed, or the employees who sell their soul for the company's success. even in big banks and corporations - the CEO is no longer the founder, but just someone hired to run the business too. they're just managers and not the pioneers with all that much of a sense of ownership. it's quite different compared to start-ups and SMEs. and even within the start-up space, john's integrity as a boss is also a rarity. so without knowing more info (maybe pat really damn cui lol), i do think pat probably did put in a solid try with each job lah.
Hello! Thank you leh. I really think I did give it my all luh. Hahahaha! But I don’t deny the fact that maybe, the problem is me. Since I’m the one hopping. I just don’t think I should shortchange anyone if I cannot or don’t give my 100% to an org.
Pat
@@JOHNPATCROSS hmm yeah lor. i guess to clarify, of course not 100% sure what john means lah. just going off imperfect interpretation from listening to u guys. but to put a number on it, what I'm saying is that I'm fairly sure you put in your 100%, or even a solid 95%.. most people would. but the 'sell your soul for boss and company' kind of effort is really reserved for bosses that are worth that effort. and usually by the time u put in that 95/100%, you can tell if they are that sort who would appreciate it.. and sad truth is that most won't lah.
@@JOHNPATCROSS o yeah, btw kudos to you two being able to have a mature and honest exchange. the 'u ask until like that you want me to be honest or not' and the fact u said 'yes be honest', and then john dared to give the honest view, and then that you could accept his honest view.... that was a v mature exchange!
Such honest conversation.
Omg! I’m like u too and yes so thankful u made this video! Wah, I thought that I’m the only one being like this and those employer will think that I’m a job hopper or am I siao, that kept on changing jobs. And I was also from ed industry and then jumped to corporate world and now I’m lost and stuck dk where to go tbh.
@@mydearginx it’s okay not to know what’s next. Just don’t stop trying. Jiayou!!
Pat
John: "I think i work very hard so that i can be your safetynet. So when i get to be your safetynet, i'm very happy" Too sweettttt!!!!!! 😍😍😍
I feel like your journey isn’t “embarrassing” or “shameful” because 20s is the decade whereby a lot of people are figuring things out and trying different things. I don’t believe in allowing a job to destroy one’s mental health either. Since you have a blessing of safety net(s) there’s nothing wrong with making use of it too. All the best in your career!
This book is really good, I listened to the podcast and I felt it changed my perspective too!
ᑎIᑕE.. like that comment.. Grass is greener where u water it.. hahaha I also has another saying.. the grass do look greener at the other side, but u dunno what's underneath it..
On point and so relatable
Brother. U talk about purpose. Machiam like priest n homily. U steady leh. GBU sia
Loved this video!! Thanks for sharing 😇
I personally think Pat is so lucky to have John as a life partner, to me he is an ideal husband who supports her wife
Very interesting topic ….. excellent!
Sincerely very curious, question to Pat: what are you looking for in a job? You mentioned being happy, so what makes you happy in your job?
Love this sharing so much ❤
Thanks Pat for sharing your story! I’m curious about the project management field but I have 0 experience. Any advice on how one could get into that field ? Or do I need to sign up for one of those PM certifications
Enjoyed this kind of open chat
May both of you wishes come true in your heart feeling soul
If you changed jobs so many times, by now maybe realise you are not the type that can be a salary worker. You have to go freelance or create your own business.
Need a video on how to level up in two years pls 😍
Enjoyed watching this video, and it made me think about my own experience, and also how my partner and I went through this process together before!
I shared the video with her and got her to watch it so we can talk about it like how you guys did 😂
Can you share what books did you read in that break, or recommend 😢
I am 44 working for the same company same job for 17 years
loving this episode! subscribed!
The timing of this video
fkin huge different respect for John... damn enlightening ~ Pat's got great foresight ~
So relatable
My purpose in life is to lie flat 😂
How do you guys find the Atto3 so far?? I am considering.... Whether to get it or renew Coe 😅
LOVEEEEE!
Lol. I JUS cycled past this park 2hrs ago with my kid. Serene Hor. Ahahha
Can Pat share what were the things she learnt from the book Manifest that help her get enlightened? (For those who fall asleep on Page 2 of reading any book).
@@crehmenti Waaaa I learnt a lot leh. But mainly is to reframe your mind to think that anything can be yours if you want it.
Pat
my 2 cents, if you quit after 1 year you will still be perceived as a job hopper. so why not just quit earlier to save your mental heath?
i hope youtube pays you guys more. hahahahaa 🎉
I agree with pat honestly. Hahahaha
i've read that manifest book and also the newer version (blue one).. but that was before i was born again. i now understand that "manifesting" and the like is occult/pagan and very unchristian, be careful!
❤
💗💗💗
Hi, i like your content, can share more what is happening 19/10?
How did you pivot to become a product manager? was it solely based on the referral?
As an HR professional, I wouldn’t forward this CV to the hiring manager because of the short tenure between jobs. Leaving a position after just three months indicates a lack of commitment, not just dissatisfaction. It suggests that you're only willing to stay in a job when survival depends on it. But with John as a safety net, the urgency to fully commit isn’t there. This pattern raises concerns about your reliability and dedication, which are critical factors for any potential employer.
@@RoyHyhel I would be doomed if all HR thinks like you. Hahahaha! Nobody likes changing jobs. The anxiety of meeting new people and easing in, is not something I’d like to go through every few months. For me to leave after 3 months may be a red flag to you, but I think it shows that I am clear of what I look for in an organisation and that org clearly does not align with me. Interview goes both ways. While you are interviewing candidates, know that they are interviewing you too. Most companies have a probation period of 3 months, that’s when you determine if you’re the right fit for each other. If the company has the right to let one go during that period, i think it’s fair that I can choose to leave if I don’t find that the company is right for me too. As a HR professional, I hope you can empathise a bit more rather than to cast your judgement so quickly. 🥺
@@JOHNPATCROSS You make a valid point! The job search and interview process definitely goes both ways. As candidates assess whether a company is the right fit for them, it's equally important for HR professionals to understand that alignment with company culture and values is crucial for long-term satisfaction.
This is also why it's essential for candidates to ask the right questions when given the opportunity during interviews. However, 90% of the time, candidates either don’t ask the right questions or try to act smart, which can lead to misunderstandings later on.
From an HR perspective, it can be challenging when a staff member leaves within 3 months, as it can feel like a significant investment of time and resources has been wasted. Balancing this with the need to find the right fit is crucial, and it's something we're continually working on improving. I'll definitely keep your perspective in mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
May I know if switch job after 1 year is reasonable for HR?
@@RoyHyhel Thanks for sharing your POV too. 🙏🏼
wow
Algoooooooooooooooo
👍👍👍
Job-hopper?
I sibei triggered, eh look, utoob no censor. good.
Hello! Can I ask what’s your mbti? Isit ESTO
Bybit ah?😂
Wah the pimple very big ah?? 😂 👍 u heaty la. Drink more water .😂😂
Why u giving advice, when u don't even know what u want to do in life, YOU ARE A JOB HOPPER. LOL
@@RelaxingMusic-wp8rm I never give any advice luh. Hahaha! Just sharing my story.
Why are you commenting when your comment brings zero value, YOU ARE A KEYBOARD WARRIOR. PLEASE DO BETTER. 真丢脸。