How does that take away from what hes doing in the other 2 harder modes? You need to deal more dmg to clear in MOC12 and AS than to clear PF. He is so damn good in MOC and AS that imo his PF doesnt matter. He's the only charcater in the game that can even have this argument.
@@iSUMMONYT well i mean theres a reason hes not at the top of every list. just like why argenti and jade arent at the top of other lists, he has zero aoe and they have zero single target. even though hes the best at single target. acheron is still better all around
Oh, you are friends with Wyatt!? I love that dude he is a beast and helped me go from a casual newbie to someone who REALLY understands the game and the weight of each stat and action. No wonder you both are my two favorite HSR content creators nowadays...
Aye lets go! Wyatt is one of the coolest people ive met during my YT journey and he makes banger content too so Im glad we share some of the audience 💪
Who let bros cook.. even acheron who's good at 3 mode isn't in SSS tier. Kafka and BS team can have more 5* but other teams need to follow your standard f2p requirement.
Kafka and BS are lower than Acheron I dont know what youre even mad about. Being good doesnt make Acheron the best either, her performance in PF for example is obviously worse than HimekoHerta, as for the restrictions, all characters are supposed to be e0s0, and no one is saying Acheron can’t have the one 5* teammate she can use (due to her Nihillity restriction) Silver Wolf, not that Silver Wolf is that impactful anyway, what are you saying you actual d**************
I don’t get it, what’s the point in putting a criteria when you don’t use it fully? And why are we taking into account flexibility if it isn’t apart of the criteria? Am I missing something, because this feels all over the place and messy… Edit: The more I looked at the tierlist, the more I’m confused. It’s like some characters are judged by all three game modes, and others just aren’t.
Dunno what is confusing to you. They explained their reasoning well. FF and Acheron output is mid compared to Boothill's, that's a fact no amount of cope will fix.
@@SM-oc4rc What cope? Also, never even brought up Boothill, but if you’re ready to white knight I guess I’ll have to respond. Boothill just doesn’t, end of story. It’s not controversial, it’s just how it is. One game mode he’s borderline useless in (Which funnily enough should mean he should be lower, lol), and the other two he’s pretty good in. But that’s pretty much all it. He’s harder to play than both Acheron and Firefly, that’s just a fact. Boothill NEEDS smaller enemies beside in MOC or else his ramp up is absolutely atrociously long. Firefly, just use skill once and bang bang. Acheron, just spam skill for her and her teammates, spam ult, bang bang. Easy to play, easy to run, and works in all three game modes and performs the same number of cycles as him. Could argue Acheron E0S0 isn’t too good in PF which I do agree, but is most definitely better then Boothill which is undeniable unless a very very niche team. Don’t even know why this was even brought up since I didn’t even mention brotha’s name, but the d-riders do be riding. And it’s not like I’m lying either, went through comments and saw he even acknowledge that he didn’t take in PF for Boothill, but everyone else did (Maybe not for Jade either, she’s way too high lolz). A little bone toss as well, zero cycles are zero cycles. Can’t be faster than that so there’s no point in arguing, “Well this character cleared faster than that character” if they both clear zero cycles. Hope this helps, grab your shield on your way out…
@@SM-oc4rc As you say, it’s THEIR criteria. No adding. It’s in THEIR criteria. If they say they’re using this criteria to judge then turn face away to talk about “Oh, well this character is more flexible” when that has nothing to do with what they brought up. It’s a reasonable thing to call out, is it not?
You are fully right about boothill, I will say though, respectfully combing moc apocalyptic shadow and pure fiction in the same tierlist was completely wrong as it’s just biasing moc as the most relevant so that is your huge mistake they need separate tierlists
the funny thing is the cc keeps replying mocand aployticshadow more important no it isnt all the modes are equally as important because of the jades u get from them@@The_CodFish69
Never once mentioned the jades. I said the modes are harder. They require a higher DPS output to clear. PF doesnt require High DPS output but high frquency of DPS which makes it easier to acheive. Also 35k score on PF with BH is good enough for max rewards on it so idk what yall on about
@@iSUMMONYT not what he is saying mate why would u pull boothill meaning he would have to waste his pulls on someone like jade so he can clear pf when he can get ff clear all modes and would have spare jade's to pull for support
@@The_CodFish69not even slightly better nope straight up way worse there wasnt even a lot of electric weak ennmies this moc acheron was mainly used off element qnd her average clear cycles still higher than bh
This is the most based tier list, even though it hurts my soul to see Jingliu at near bottom of A. Very good explanation and justification for the placement of each character like how Firefly has a very high floor for near no investment but limited ceiling while Acheron has a lower floor but also the highest ceiling that will only get better the more nihility characters introduced, making her slightly edge out Firefly with her still uncapped potential. Only thing is I don't think Boothill should be placed in SSS because he is held back severely in PF even though he dominates MOC and AS. Characters in the SS tier like Firefly and Acheron perform well in all three modes.
But then I guess you can justify that PF you don't need to main your dps in there since you can just replace them with F2P characters like Herta and Himeko, making that mode less pertinent to ranking these characters.
I understand the BH point. But I guess what Wyatt and I failed to explain is that BH trivializes PF and AS so much that his performance in PF doesnt really affect his DPS potential all that much.
@@iSUMMONYT That alone is a bad statement to base his ranking on... cause then you will need to apply the same logic to everyone or either throw all the criteria away and ranking all of them base on his dmg. Tbh if one or two people are in a disagree then maybe its personal taste but when many people starts to point out something its simply not coincidence. Overall tier list is good but you meesed up on BH. Also Hunt characters will always be in disadvantage due being single target. Only way a Hunt character can compete is having a kit like Seele or soon Feixiao and pretty sure if Feixiao is everything they are talking about you will then realize BH shouldnt be there. Unfortunaly AoE characters are most of the time if not always going to be better.
@@laelfernandez9thank you that statement is so bad cause ur going to argue boothill is better than firefly and acheron in moc no what about pf no and in AS hes oly sligly better than firefly and acheron can still clear good in AS. in term of f2p friendly firefly wins here no debate and acheron is the hardest but if u have that build u can put boothill at the top of the list.
@@somerandomguy340ok if thats true and PF is less important because u can use chracter like herta which specialize in that why is jade and argenti so high they only shine in pf which make their placement on this list foolish
I'm so much happier with my Firefly than my (E0S0) Acheron. Though, to be fair, I did get her to E1S1 and then much later on her E2, I appreciate her higher damage floor. I don't know if I'm just investing too widely but while my break and dot units have pretty much finished gear, I don't think I've got any Crit units with base stats better than 60/120 other than Jingliu. Trying to get double crit stats and then getting those to actually roll well is such a pain, and then every new character I end up picking up needs it in a new set anyway. Maybe I do need to go back and just farm Acheron relics for another patch or something, but I'm hoping I can eventually solve this with more break supports in the future.
Current meta is break, any dps who can't manipulate and match enemies toughness bar would suffered from it. Especially after hoyo custom made boss for that one character😅
Putting Boothill over Acheron and FF is probably the most astronomically hottest take in HSR this patch. And im a Boothill main with E1S1. He is not close to them at all. FF almost does his job better in AS and that tbh is embarrassing considering its THE hunt unit mode and the only way hes usable in PF in my testing is as a Himeko FU battery with the elite breaks. I used Boothill at E0S0 to compare before I upgraded and I can not even imagine using him without his E1. Just the ramp alone slows you down astronomically unless you use Bronya. E0 Acheron can just slap on a Pela and another debuffer and she can pop off, FF pops off even at e0 just by existing next to Gallagher and HMC, Boothills team requierements are way more complex. If you dont have Ruan Mei for example its a bust. If you dont have E1 and theres no small ads its Bronya or bust. Gallaghers is permanently stuck there aswell. Its just TOUGH. And given how break damage scales most buffers do nothing for him bar Hanya for hyper speed and Pela for def shred. Thats too manny characters you want for only 1 stat while you have 2 free slots to work with. If Acheron and FF are A bazooka, and an Assault rifle Boothill is ironically a revolver. Yeah its a deadly weapon and its cool, but its much harder to use and reload.
There is no character in the game that breaks enemies faster thant BH. Also BH placement is not just his dmg, its because he slices through MOC and AS like its nobodys business with very little invenstment. Ive 1 cycled with a 3 star LC on day 1 of his release. He makes the 2 hardest modes in the game so easy that his PF performance doesnt affect his placement.... IN MY OPINION. However I do see where you are coming from and you def have a valid argument for sure.
@@iSUMMONYT I agree with you, but why is Herta so low in that case? Isn't she supposed to basically trivialize one of the gamemodes too? Also, on a slight tangent, is Argenti really on the same tier as KafkaSwan and better than Jingliu and DrRatio really overrall? It seems like you weigh MoC and AS heavier, as they are harder. But aren't they both stronger in MoC and AS? DrRatio is also decent in PFs where there are fua buffs.
@@arjunmuruganandam3373 Herta trivializes the easiest gamemode. MOC, AS and PF all have diff levels of difficulties (as of rn) PF has always been the easier one. So much so that a fully F2P character and a 5star that was considered the worst 5 star (Himkeo) are able to be the best at that mode without dealing more dmg.
@@arjunmuruganandam3373 and Yeah Aregenti was severly slept on even by me. He is absolutely a fantastic dmg dealer but he is just not very exviting to play and doesnt have a lot of hype.
the DHIL cope is unreal. does not come close to ratio atm. even with f2p teams, ratio edges out over firefly and acheron. sites like prydwen ignore the stats because the amount of hate would be crazy.
Isummon i belive that u are one of the best tc for star rail and i trust your opinion but man, this might be the worse tier list that i ever saw in hsr lmao, jade being SS when she is only good in PF, FF on the same tier as jingliu/seele/ratio, DHIL on the same tier as acheron and boothill on SSS there are so many things that are soooooo off it is actually insane, i don't want to write a essey so i won't go in details on why i thinks that all of this placement are completely bs Edit: well u got me, usually in this videos i comment first and watch later, the boothill placement is still wrong tho
@@recker4267 yea i know considering he is not as good in PF, and in MOC there is considered a "bad match up" for him while Acheron doesn't have that problem
this in a casual perspective in thining is an omega big brain thinker and wdymfirefly can clear faster than boothill, also without a lc rlly ok if soo make ur next video a boothill 0 cycle no hmc or rm.
Jing liu in A tier is the funniest shit ive seen this week and I'm here for it. Based af. It's at a point where I can clear easier with some of my e6 4 stars than Mid liu. And yes e6 misha is better than Jing liu.
yalls reasoning is so inconsistent if you take into consideration how often topaz and numby do their attacks why not do the same with FF? she deals about the same or even more damage than BH and does it more frequently due to o her insane speed also shes so much better in PF, also how is not having a flexible team comp a negative for her when her best team consists of 2 f2p characters? but then ig yall value team flexibility more than me. everything except the attack frequency goes for acheron as well, so i just dont see how those 2 arent at the top, BH us top 3 definitely but FF and acheron are clearly better
Nice tier list and I agree 100%, when Boothill breaks an enemy he is guaranteed dead, either by the basic attacks or the massive bleed. Also seeing Ourgenti so high is great, been using him in all 3 game modes and his performance is amazing in all of them
There HAS to be a way in 2.4 to get Yanqing doing good numbers surely? He scales on atk and dmg% so i would put him with robyn and Ruan mei. SURELY......
The problem with him is keeping his DPS up. Theres realjstically 1 charactee that can do that which is Aventurine but even then the shields get broken every now and then and once that happens his dps is essentially shut down completely. Thats the issue he actually has solid multipliers
@@iSUMMONYT I whaled a bit on Aventurine and went E1S1 and thats makes his shields rarely ever broken so if the shields dont go down who should I place in the remaining two slots you think? Was I right with atk and dmg buffing or should i max out cdmg with sparkle and robyn? Sorry you wouldn't have time to reply to everyone so ill play around with it after I have built my lost 50/50.......i mean Yanqing.....
There should be a disclaimer to clarify if y'all are taking into consideration all 3 endgame modes for the tier list. BH and Jade that high? Sorry but it's just coal. Acheron is the only one I can see being SSS. Why are BS and Kafka there when their team requires 4(!!!) limited 5star?
@@akinkunmiakoni5784 literally says nothing. Why are acheron and dhil there then? "FF doesn't do 1m dmg" she does +500k per skill 4 times practically in a row? E0S0 is nothing to work with. BH SSS, what about him in PF? Jade E0S0(!!!), what about her outside of PF? Overall performance across 3 modes is nonsense, you have to separate them.
@@TokitoRen5633 Fr, although to be fair I think it is heavily dependent on her E1 and S1. The absolute shenanigans you can enable with her though...gosh. I've seen Ruri Goko 0 cycle MOC 12 Argenti both this and last MoC with hypercarry Robin, Bronya, Pela, and Tingyun. This truly is our Honkai: Support Rail.
Yes, u are right, his dmg is insanely good in well execution, I personally will put him in same tier as ss chars to go for, as hunt chars sometime suffer in auto mode. Just my perspective who prefers easy mode.
@@Brunel__br well her team is literally free so whats the point of using other characters if u have her teammate already, even without ruan mei other def shredders works fine. whats the point of being flexible when you really just want her to use in her best team which the 2 are free?
@@miggggguel no, i completely agree with you, im just saying that its hard to change somone in her team, at the emd what is the point of team variation when one team can complete all game mode while being coat effective too.
Im not sure. I feel like even if FF has just so little ways to expand, Like yes Miss Mecha is cool but Break Effect (and ATK in a way )being the only stat she can use is such a pain bc you need to only get those rolls on ur relics. And she is good right now she is def not future proof IMO i think boothill is because he expands out more and he has way more team comps and is versatile.
Dunno what is confusing to you. They explained their reasoning well. FF and Acheron output is mid compared to Boothill's, that's a fact no amount of cope will fix.
@@SM-oc4rc all other cals, statics, tier list and video show Acheron and FF is much better than Boothill, this tier list is just shit, inaccurate while other tier list say otherwise, it a fact, mannn boothill mains is hell of a delusional bunch of invidual who full of themself and not taking real fact and taking this tier list seriously when it just all fail information
Clara definitely belongs in the same tier as Ratio; Especially when you consider the fact that she often times out DPS's him in both MoC and AS (because she synergizes better with the extra actions turbulence buffs) while being able to full clear in most Pure Fiction scenarios. Once Yunli's light cone comes out that's only going to further the gap. I guess if you're trying to 0 cycle I can see placing her behind but even then her versatility across all end game formats would bump her up for me. In general, despite one of your criteria's being versatility I don't believe you guys did a good job incorporating that into your tier list. Boothill being SSS despite being absolute ass cheeks in PF is a good example, here. Acheron's versatility in all end game modes should've made her the only SSS character
@@The_CodFish69 Personally, I'm waiting to see how she does in MoC when it's not catered to her and I've full cleared multiple PF's with Acheron and struggled to hit 25k with my Firefly team despite her being e1 in this one. I know she can clear with Himeko but I sadly don't have her
@@heyohworld4067 wrong, Clara's second best LC is her sig, first being Yunli's, third being Blade's, then FOAA is the next one. Acheron somewhat falls off due to slower ult recharge without her sig LC. So I would agree their justification. What I see disagree with them is putting BH up high, as he doesn't shine in PF but still be one of the best minimal relic investment out of any other characters in other contents. Another is Seele, she can clear every content, even 0 cycling (from my experience of maxed out relic rolls), but she needs a lot of relic investment to clear every content regardless of weakness breaking outside AS. For AS contents with no quantum weakness, Silver Wolf is gonna be the BIS team for that situation. Seele, being one of the oldest character, still able to shine due to synergy with newer characters, like Robin and Sparkle. For this, I will have to consider the cost of characters as well for her team set up. I will put Seele in S. Edit: Also, this tier list don't really address current MoC, PF and AS buff more rather in general.
I’m sorry, Boothill and Firefly both need to go down one tier and Acheron should be SSS. Acheron is near flawless in all game modes, very flexible team comps, and can brute force most of the current break-focused content. Don’t get me wrong, I love Boothill: amazing kit, love the hybrid playstyle, very flexible comps unlike FF, very underrated by much of the community. That said, he’s garbage in pure fiction so why’s he in SSS? Jingliu was put in A bc she sucks in PF (and in the break meta in general, but I still use her just fine), so why does Boothill get a pass? They both devour skill points and they both suck when not in their particular stances. And FF…. 🙄 She has the most inflexible comp and does very little damage if the enemy isn’t weakness broken fast enough. That’s the problem with HSR tierlists bc at some point bias always creeps in. This isn’t like other games where you’re simply reviewing a patch 1.1 character to a 2.1 character. A character’s success in HSR is heavily dependent on the current end-game buffs bc it helps Hoyo sell the latest limited character(s). And they’ve mastered that concept at this point in the game. Every patch these tierlists are flipped around not because a character is suddenly bad, but bc the current content doesn’t cater to their playstyle. This tierlist would’ve been 100x more credible if it was based on how well characters do in all game modes without their specific moc/pf/as buffs: Acheron, DHIL, Black Swan, Kafka and, to a lesser extent lately, Jingliu. I STILL brute force content with her and I’ve had her at E0S1 since her release. Her issue is that the game has introduced more multi-staged content (very little ice content at that), and she hasn’t had a new bis support in several patches now. We’ve been getting attack buffer after attack buffer but Jingliu likes dmg buffs, def shred, res shred, and energy. When Hoyo decides to release a 5 star version of Pela or Tingyun and/or another 100% advance forward support like Bronya, Jingliu is going to shoot right back up. But right now the current content isn’t made with her in mind so she’s stagnating.
But is having diff opinions a bad thing? Would me putting BH above the "conventional" best dps not make you think that perhaps people are sleeping on BH. Like I said its not just me that thinks this way eithe, Wyatt literally plays this game almost all day everyday so maybe there is a conversation to be had. We were just trying to start it.
@@iSUMMONYT no, having a different opinion is a wonderful thing. I also like Wyatt’s out of the box content and creative playstyle. But that’s not what you all did here. You inflated certain characters and lowered another despite their similar faults and weaknesses for the sake of “starting a conversation”. As a content creator it’s irresponsible to project bias into your content bc there are those spending their hard-earned money and/or in-game savings based on your opinions. If you no longer like a character, cool, say that. Just don’t falsely promote another over them because you feel they need more love.
@@ajw.5778 e0s0 acheron is not the same as e0s1 acheron. i dont enjoy rating characters without their light cone but I understand why isummon and wyatt chose to do it that way. boothill doesn't need his light cone to perform and he can fit in various comps including dot and even with acheron (his stack generation can be impressive) and still dish out incredibly high dps.
@@jaydifeo def agree on that point. However, they were also grading each character’s performance in each game mode. Boothill is terrible in pf. And Acheron does just fine with GNSW, her stack generation just takes a bit longer.
@@ajw.5778 he's not terrible in PF, that's a fallacy. aside from him being the main dps in PF, he can fit in comps with Kafka/Swan, Acheron, FF, Himeko, etc. the idea that hunt units are automatically bad in PF is just not true.
Biggest downside of boothill is his survivability and ult weakness implant, but i agree with the dps chart. Dude can easily get 500-700k dmg with E0S1 or 300-500k without his sign, ofc that much damage only applies to og physical weakness type and boss enemies.
Survivability doesn't matter and its actually better than your average dps because he can delay with his ult, Ult weakness implant isn't that big of a problem
Theres a reason i have the opinion I have. But its ok, i'll just show yall why BH is SSS. At the end of the day, I stand by my opinion but I understand why yall thinks its so off base.
Finally a CC who realizes that dhil is way better than jingliu right now and by far, especially since the new break meta. Let the jingliu copers be humbled😌
Also agree dhil is better but the video was a little weird for me. Rated him higher saying in correct team his SP issue is solved but also didn't acknlowedge the SP management is a positive for jingliu allowing her to use more SP hungry supports. Jinglius issue now is she has too much free stats which can be obtained from the better supports we have but her lower skill multipliers which we can't change are holding her back... dhil in the opposite.. his skill multipliers damn high and the missing stats can be outsourced :
Is this tierlist realy accurate or only joke? I have acheron with signature and firefly without signature, but my firefly always clear moc faster than my acheron, and then this tierlist title is overall performance in moc/pf/as, wtf boothill in sss tier, he absolutely trash in purefiction
These past MOC and AZ are catered towards FF lets just start there so the game is making FF feel better. Lastly, whats the score one needs to get with BH for him to considered good or decent in PF? Cause on his release there was 35k score BH runs and he can possibly get 30K+ in this current PF. So is it because since he is ST you automatically discard him in this mode? I bet you dont even have BH to try it yourself.
@@nuannathan5446no great on PF lmao I run her in every PF ever since I got her her turn comes back fast due to her high speed and it is a 3 hit skill plus her premium team is reliable doing easy 100k + on their own and if u have problems just swap in himeko because firefly can abuse the fire weakness mechanic for her
ok bro the moment u put jingliu that low and boothill that high even though jingliu does make sense i believe shes low SS or high S. I have a EOSO jingliu and Dhil and i also have their best team including sparkle and bronya and jingliu does like 280 to 320k on ult and like 200 to 240k on enhaced skill and DHIL does the same and even higher damage sometimes his skill does 400k and ult does 200k so no way this tierlist makes any sense. Argenti and jade over jingliu ik ur smoking crack and btw im a day one dhil guy but i gotta be honest bro u even put misha over jingliu misha the 4 star nerfed version.
Both of these cc are biased towards dhil, and as we known Jingliu had always been on top. Of course when Jingliu has slight disadvantage with current enemies, they'd try to make she like the worst dps.
Because DHIL can use his enchanted skill every turn and Jingliu can do hers every 3-4 turns.. But i was kind of shocked seeing her so low i would say shes atleast medium S tier
this is an amazing tier list! I really appreciated you taking the time to explain each character and the b-roll footage to show really helped me since I'm a visual learner! also please bring Wyatt on more often and I also hope that you guys make a new tier list like this every few 6 months or so! you've opened my eyes to boothill so I'll be pulling him and checking out wyatts videos on teams! I also would love to listen to you guys podcast chat about all ur fav games and the state of hsr or other games etc, just anything! 😊
Tahts what this video is about, opening up yall perspective. I linked a bunch of Wyatts video but he has tons of good ass content to go through. We are discussing a schedule for these kind of videos!
Want to put my opinions in cuz ofcourse I am offended. But trying to be objective as I also do all the endgame modes for my friends. First of all the notion that Pure fiction is easier for everybody is a lie. Being a low spender myself ( 4 express passes and 2 battle passes), I pulled mainly for MOC units, so Destruction units like Jingliu, DHIL and Firefly. I was getting by with using Seele on one side and Herta on the other in Pure Fiction but I literally couldn't get 60k points in the DOT Purefiction, I raised Serval, and Sampo for it and still couldn't. Secondly playing Boothill a fair bit he isn't head and shoulders above FF, Acheron or DHIL. He is on par at best. His pocket trickshot can get easily scuffed without smaller mobs and at lower investment if he doesn't one shot then he feels significantly shit. I genuinely feel Acheron is better than the other 3 purely because she'll be maximum one cycle behind the others in MoC and AS while being actually decent in PF. And no I don't have bias with Acheron.... She's my least liked out of all of the others.
Oh, IL is SS and both people on the video just happen to have E2 and play him a lot AND also have Sparkle, I assume and run him always in with her. But the tier list is for E0S0, and if we are talking Sparkle here, she's not good support for almost any top tier DPSes except for the IL E2 and E2 Acheron, so from the F2P perspective she's straight up garbadge and shouldn't be considered. And that's where I see the problem with this assessment of the IL. It's a little bit too bold to place him 2 whole tiers above totally F2P friendly Jingliu, whille he's working only with niche 5-star support.
I got my E2 after 2 weeks of playing E0S0 without Sparkle cause wasnt even released yet. My SParkle is also E0S0 and I used her on every single team that used Bronya except Jingliu and BH. Jingliu currently needs at the very least her Sig LC to remain competitive. Speaking from someone that has and very much likes his E0S0 Jingliu.
Before sparkle this is true. And I dont see any cc that hypes her anymore, infact both of them doesnt have hype anymore, completely overshadowed by newer dpses
@@arjunmuruganandam3373 Nah bhai, there are some stupid big name CCs perpetuating the myth about "Uhhh if you give any DPS 3SP they will match his damage", like OK stupid? But will they output 3xSP worth of damage every turn like him? Other DPS will take 3 turns doing 3xSP damage and in that time he has also taken 3 turns doing 9xSP damage.
@@arjunmuruganandam3373some either mrpokkeo still do or just completely forgot about how good Dhil is and a big example is the completely unbiased prydwen tierlist like I have no idea how jingliu is still T0.5 with dhil
Cause he gives MOC and AS for free. Those are the 2 hardest modes in the game. We can all agree that AS and MOC are harder than PF. He trivializes those 2 modes, imo those outweigh his PF performance.
@@akinkunmiakoni5784 they said why boothil is THE f2p friendly characters where e0s0 3* lc some support and he melt MOC and AS where ff need her lc her single team that she can't change, with RM Gallagher (idk how many eidolons ) and if you really want to do PF with her you need her e2 even some ff with sig lc and her team deal as much if not less dmg than my boothill random 4* lc random relics and with Bronya-hmc-gepard/luocha
@@iSUMMONYTpure fiction is harder than MoC imo, you basically lose if you can’t use the buffs or you don’t use the PF carries. i can bring any carry in MoC and still get 5 cycle per half clears, not the case with PF if it has a DoT buff. I think with that logic Himeko and Herta should be higher on the list because they make every pure fiction so far free.
Boothill being in the top of the chart makes 0 sense, u based in on a ranking of average score of all 3 modes, he performs worse then Firefly and Acheron in both MoC and PF and slightly better then Firefly in AS (marginal). That being said his f2p lc options are tragic to say the least. From most tests ive seen he performs better with the Firefly superbreak team because his team can actually do dmg instead of giving him double actions, and everyone else hitting like a limp nooble. Case in point this moc both sides are horrible for Boothil, one side has 2 elites to start (womp womo stacks) and other side has low toughness bars (womp womp break dmg). Lastly, this is more of a personal take but a Hunt unit can never be the best damage dealer in the game, they severely lack in coverage and Boothil comes short like the rest of his Hunt peers in this regard, hopefully Feixao doesnt follow suit
@@arcanacoltic971considering this is a tier list for all game modes it doesn't really make sense to make him higher than Acheron and Firefly since he sucks at PF
We forgot to explain that BH trivializes MOC and AS soo much that his PF performance doesnt hinder his placement. He literally makes you not have to worry about 1 side of each mode. He just gives you fast full clears with little investment and effort. We shoudlve specified that.
@@iSUMMONYT um firefly and acheron do that better in MOC acheron and firefly and a lot better and easier to use and in PF acheron and firefly are also better and in AS boothill is only slighly and barely better than them both by logic and sense its 2 to 1 acheron and firefly have him beat. ill make a case that acheron need a good amount of investment to become the dps she is but firefly give her meh relic level some traces get some break and speed and she will literlly set the seas ablaze
I think the list is confusing, making it a DPS tier list, but then placing units based on utility as well is kinda weird. At some point I started thinking it was a troll list, I think I'll stick to Prydwen to judge the power level of characters. There is too much criteria on this list.
@@iSUMMONYT and that's the issue. It wasn't just DPS potential in a single category. It combined MOC and PF. Some units were considered standalone, some were considered with their BiS teams. I think if you redid the list and evaluated each character in their best teams and you seperate the content by categories you would have a better more refined list. There was also criteria that you talked about like their f2p friendliness and such, which I don't really care much for in a dps tier list. And that's what made it confusing, too many variables was used in this list, not just DPS potential. That's why separating units into damage dealers and supports is important. I didn't see just E0 S0 from this video.
@iSUMMONYT I mean didnt prydwen do the calcs? What I dont get in your tierlist is why on earth is boothill at top? I like him but hes like the undisputed worse character for PF. I heard you say it doesnt matter because you can clear it anyway but by that logic hos performance in as and moc doesnt really matter because other character can just clear those with full rewards. It just make no sense tbh.
Overall, I can understand all your choices except Boothill? Can you please clarify how Boothill is in SSS in the comments or in a video? I can see SSS in AS and MOC, but I don't see SSS in PF. You didn't expand on how he is SSS in PF. I watched the video and watched Wyatt's video (the one provided in the clip), but it seems you all focus on his ability in MOC and AS. Please explain how he is SSS in PF because I don't see it.
Boothill doesn't need Ruan mei or harmony mc to function. Just more SPD and break effect and some SPD tuning. Boothill relics aren't tied to a specific set , anything works . He only needs Talia for the planetary set . Blud can use any 4 star support and he works.
@@Thivesh_ I understand what ur saying and I love characters being flexable but talking from meta perspective there is only 1 team for all dps, so all characters are tied to their specific teams. To me flexability is more about future proofing alowing them to use the newer powercrept units easier helping keep the characters longevitiy... more than an actual reason in saying they're good.
First thing its that it is my (and Wyatts) opinion. MoC and AS are the defacto hardest content in the game and PF is the 3rd hardest content in the game. BH being so broken in MOC and AS, and by broken I mean he gives you free clears on one side of each mode with very little investment, outweighs his PF performance (hes not as abysmal in PF as people nake him out to be). I see where FF and Acheron can be better but BH does it so easily that to me it justifies him being higher. Let me know if you have any more questions!
@@iSUMMONYT FF is just as broken in AS and MOC and shes a lot better than boothill in Pf so on that alone shouldnt firefly be on the same level if not higher
Gallagher put in the middle seems wrong. Any dps with break and speed can replace dps gallagher easily. Gallagher is used because he heals and he is fire. If the context is DPS, gallagher definitely not in the mid tier dps.
@@iSUMMONYT I just think Clara's counters are too powerful to be downplayed, Even if they are reliant. There are ways to manipulate the turn order of the game and make enemies go more often and her counters are like payback nukes
My Firefly clears moc in 1 cycle with ease and an average build, boothill also clears in around the same amount of cycles and they’re both also two of the best units in apoc but firefly is still useable in pure fiction unlike boothill since she enables himeko to be more versatile and triggers her fua more often so overall firefly should be sss since she’s more universal but still performs insanely well also boothill can’t grow much either since he’s also a break dps so i don’t know why you make that argument against firefly but not him
Ayee what do you think youre doing revealing industry secrets 🤣🤣 jokes aside I do believe he is SSS, I stand by that. The real "bait" was putting FF and Acheron a tier below.
As an E2S1 acheron and E2S1 FF owner, the tier placement doesn't bother me at all. As long as I can have fun with my favorite characters and clear content at the same time, it's all good for me
I got Jade for the speed improvement, with it my Hyper carry can play more turns, I ended up loving the possibility of clearing the entire field at once, saving me from being attacked hehehe
I dont get why people keep saying sparkle erases SP issues. She's less SP positive then typical supports as long as u use her skill every turn unless ur doing a 2 turn ulti then sure she has more SP generation than 2 per 3 turns. While i do say inibitor is above jingliu you rated him higher saying his teams hes wanted in solves his SP issues but at the same time didn't rate jingliu on having less SP consumption so you can run more SP heavy support. We're human, always going to be some bias in there... and for me it should be a change to claras placement. If you're wasting her ulti charges perhaps using attack rope? Not using tingyun? Maximise the damage per charge instead of getting charges faster. What i espcially like about clara is the counter attack, in pure fiction when enemies die and new enemies enter they take their turns immedately and clara... soon yunli are the only 2 where enemies taking a turn is basically the same as giving themselves extra turns. This and how limited FUA is for F2P. Outside of clara you have what Xueyi? and QQ eidolons as the only real sources of FUA... soon new march 7th but all of them are not true FUA attackers so anytime an event comes around with FUA i dust off my Clara to carry me. In a previous pure fiction E2 acheron with 270% unbuffed crit dmg couldnt get me the 3* but E1 Clara easily got me the full clear. I'm also a little bias on firefly. 100% agree that because break is your only source of damage you hit dimishing return and you hit it HARD... but fireflys base toughness being inheritly 50% higher and then self buffing efficiency and speed with her getting an extra turn when she ultis... even though 75%~ of her damage being tied to the main character it's going to be extremely hard for them to give us a better enabler than firefly but this is a DPS tierlist.. not how well they synergize so the SS is perfectly resonable.
As far as Sparkle she is always +1 SP cause she only needs 3 SP to generate 4. But yeah ofc this list has bias in it 100% but the placements were not dug up out of nowhere, there are legitimate arguments to be had in all of these "hot takes". Eitherway thatnk you for the comme t was a good read and good rationalization of your points! 💪
@@iSUMMONYT Yea im with you as well. As long as it's explain even if i disagree i do learn something from it which is were we all win. Out of the 3 game modes pure fiction was actually the hardest for me to adjust to until i leveled up Herta, Heimiko and Clara. All in all opinions wont differ much i think the video needed to scream into peoples ears it's not including team synergy. After watching the video i was like theres robin.. where's ruan mei? Only after i realised its just dps and subconciously looking for support cause robin was there lol
Sparkle statistically is the most SP positive character in the game. If speedtuned correclty, Sometimes she can even basic for even more SP, Her technique recovers 3 SP and talent increases the SP cap by 2 (a total of 5 sp) And has a 3 turn ult with a ER rope. (Assuming she is speed tuned correctly) she can take 3 turns a cycle (And before u say its unreasonable literally just throw ur highest SPD stuff on her) And she can basic once and uses Skill twice, and her ult is +4 SP (some lightcones giving 5) that means you can generate 3 sp per cycle with ult (+4 ult, +1 basic, -2 skill =3) and her talent and technique giving her 5, That means she can very comfortably generate 8 SP on the first cycle, and 3 every other cycle. Along with a SP friendly sustain who on average takes 2 turns a cycle, That means that Sparkles average team generates 10 SP on the first cycle and 5 every other cycle for your dps and other support to use (Bonus SP if the other support also generates alot of SP)
Sparkle generates 8 SP on the first cycle and 3 every other cycle, Along with the average SP positive sustain, Its 10 SP on the first cycle and 5 every other cycle. If u want math or proof read my other reply. So technically she does erase SP issues or most SP issues
As a Boothill main i do believe we should put him in SS and put Acheron in SSS i agree while he his super versatile and can still do big numbers with 3* or no lc his pf performance is rather poor even tho he does extremely well in 2/3 modes Acheron is still decent in pf and she is somewhat versatile as well while still being able to clear MOC and AS
Funny enough we talked to 2 whales that have every character at E6S5 before we put this out and they agreed with us (give or take a few placements). I guess people have diff experiences... crazy
Alright, I don't agree with this tier list, but I'm not gonna talk about Acheron/Boothill/Firefly because there's a lot of nuanced discussion to be had around these characters, and they're in the top 3 spots so I'm fine with that. (Boothill actually murders the crap out of DoT Pure Fiction btw with the DoT transfer buff, which I didn't hear anyone mention yet.) Luka in A and Sushang in C??? I don't understand the Luka glazing when he is incapable of 0 cycling nowadays without Kafka. And even that can be a bit sketch. You don't build Sushang on Break Effect either; you build her Crit, and with the advent of supports like Ruan Mei and Robin, her multiple attacks and Crit-oriented playstyle that thrives on Breaks (SP neutral at E1!), she absolutely shreds Physical weak bosses like Argenti. She's very much like Xueyi (though slightly weaker), but instead of being tied to Quantum weak, she's tied to Physical weak. Sushang is definitely better than Luka simply due to her being a frequent attacking Crit DPS, especially at E6 where she outspeeds freaking Seele. Yanqing should be bottom of the list next to Arlan. He overcaps on Crit Rate buffs, getting 20-80% Crit Rate, with the upper end being tied to a 140 cost Ultimate. His buffs are less consistent than YUKONG'S, and we all know that Yukong is the absolute queen of consistent buffs (NOT). What's more, in addition to the RNG of not wanting to get hit, his follow-up attacks, which are crucial to his rotations, are fixed 60% RNG, and if you're bringing down QQ a tier you better darn well bring Yanqing down too. But the worst offender? He has to Skill EVERY TURN to maintain Soulsteel Sync, which means that he's extremely SP hungry. At least Arlan is SP efficient. Like you said with Jingliu, the extra stats he gets do nothing for his kit. It's no longer 1.0, and with his self buffs being mediocre at best he's left with glaring weaknesses, and forced to use Aventurine for non-0 cycle comps, Gepard isn't enough. I have my Gepard at E1 S1, 3.8k DEF, 134 SPD with his sig LC and he still can't keep Yanqing alive this MoC. Oh, and good luck 0 cycling with the SP hungriest character in the game who gets disabled from the slightest bit of damage. I'm sure Sparkle will help him with those problems when he self-buffs his SPD and oversaturates his Crit DMG. Wind Dan Heng smacks the heck out of Yanqing in endgame content because he doesn't have these weaknesses, and even has a reset on his E4. Heck, even Hook is better for her occasional sustain and Blast attacks. Welt is better too because he actually helps keep the team alive with his AoE Ult and has ATK scalings that outclass Seele's. GET MY MAN YANQING DOWN TO THE BOTTOM TIER Ratio being 2 tiers below DHIL is absolutely preposterous. They are very similar in endgame performance. Ratio has the highest ST damage in the game, which DHIL can't make up for with his Blast attacks in MoC. He also synergizes better with both 4* supports like Pela, Gui, and Tingyun, as well as 5* like Robin, Topaz, Aventurine, and heck even Black Swan, making his floor and ceiling outscale DHIL's even when we don't consider his higher base scalings. Both have absurdly high Break values which puts them very close to each other in Apocalyptic Shadow, and well they both suck at Pure Fiction. They are two sides of the same coin, especially at E0. Either move Ratio up or bring DHIL down, they are way closer in power level. As for Kafka/Black Swan, sure they're SS tier together but individually they're pretty mediocre at damage dealing, Swan especially. Maybe A tier for Kafka and B tier for Swan at absolute best. Swan can act as a surprisingly good support for Acheron and Ratio, but strictly as a DPS, she needs needs NEEDS Kafka as Kafka literally doubles her damage and then some. Her only DPS niche is specifically in DoT Pure Fiction, which she does excel at solo, but having one great, specific niche in ONE gamemode and dogwater performance in the other two does not an S tier unit make. Kafka also loses a massive nuke without Swan, so yeah there's that. Honestly the rest of the tier list is fine imo, but these four rating decisions are absolutely egregious.
I see your points but I disagree on the BS part. Ive 1 cycled with just BS on MOC her individual dmg is really good whe shes well built. The Sushang thing idk Break Luka goes crazy which is something you cant say to the same extent for Sushang. DHIL vs Ratio - imo Ratio needs too much when compared to DHIL. In my expwrience clearing with DHIL, pre Sparkle all I needed was Tingyun, Pela and FuXuan and I was able to clear easily. All DHIL neess is to have SP available. Ratio needs SP, debuffs and not just the enemy to be debuffed but they need to be stacked up to 5 for max dmg, high crit ratio. For from a F2P perspective its a lot to maximize.
@@iSUMMONYT Was the MoC cycle MoC 12 with E0 S0 on a non-DoT Trotter MoC? Because I was able to 0 cycle MoC 12 Sam with Pela + Acheron + Black Swan + Sparkle on the Trotter DoT MoC thanks to Black Swan's damage output. I just don't see how Black Swan's damage can be that high without her signature. Sure, she can technically have her DoTs retriggered by Gui and E4 Sampo, but I don't think 0 cycling with her is possible, which I think is the minimum requirement for an S tier ranked DPS. There are videos of people 0 cycling MoC 12 Argenti with Sushang Crit hypercarry and E0 S1 supports. I don't think Luka is capable of the same thing right now. And even if he was, that would just put him on par with Sushang. Also Ratio just needs Pela for the debuffs, she alone provides enough. E4 Pela Skill + Ult + Pearls + Ratio Eff Res Down is 4 debuffs. Include Ratio's and Pela's Techniques, and Weakness Break, as well as enemy debuffs, and you can easily maintain 3-5 debuffs on any enemy for Ratio to wallop. I was able to 0 cycle MoC 12 Kafka with just E1 S0 Ruan Mei, E6 Pela, E0 S0 Robin, and rainbow gear (so E1 could have been mitigated with 4 pc Quantum/Diver, better gear, and/or Eagle set on my Pela), so I'm not sure what you mean by "he needs too much compared to DHIL". Too much thinking, maybe, but too much investment no.
Also to add to the previous point, E0 S0 Ratio is able to 0 cycle Past Present Future, which heavily favors AoE, with E6 Gallagher, Tingyun, and E1 Robin, with the help of no signature LCs. ruclips.net/video/exvqxwrlvGA/видео.html&pp=ygURaHNyIHJhdGlvIDAgY3ljbGU%3D He was also able to 0 cycle Argenti last cycle despite him not being Imaginary weak, with E0 Robin, E6 Tingyun, and E6 Pela. No signatures on anyone. ruclips.net/video/Byf-h4KFPlM/видео.html&ab_channel=Ricci I am not trying to say that Ratio is better than DHIL, but rather that they are closer in power level to each other.
@@iSUMMONYT Also wait, Ratio is actually more F2P friendly in terms of attaining a high Crit ratio. With S5 Cruising, his traces + talents, and a Crit Rate body, plus 4 pc Diver and Salsotto, you can achieve 96.4% Crit Rate in battle with ZERO substats, making it ridiculously easy for him to achieve 100% Crit Rate. Compare that to DHIL, who needs his signature LC for any additional Crit Rate, and who with S5 Aeon and Rutilant only has 57.4% Crit Rate with zero substats. Which is easier to maximize from an F2P perspective? As for their other self-buffs, by averaging DHIL's hits and damage distribution, he gets 17.1% Crit DMG (26.4% if using Ult on same turn), plus another 24% against Imaginary Weak, and 27% DMG (45% on Ult turn). Ratio gets a 25% Crit DMG buff and his 30-50% DMG increase. In other words, Ratio's self-buffs here match or beat out DHIL's too, with DHIL only pulling slightly ahead on Imaginary Weak AND on turns where he is using his Ult. Stacking debuffs is also not that difficult if you use Pela, as she enables 3 debuffs by herself (Skill + Ult + Pearls), along with all the less consistent but still impactful debuff sources (Ratio's Technique, Pela's Technique, Weakness Breaks, enemy self-debuffs). And that's only with Ratio + Pela. Sure, if you want to use Ratio + Topaz + Robin you might find yourself hard pressed to get that 100% FuA chance, but that team while technically optimal is the antithesis of a "F2P perspective" compared to Ratio + Pela + Tingyun for instance.
@@SM-oc4rcthis is based on all 3 mate they are evenly matched in the first 2 game modes but ff way better for pf meaning she better overall but in other game mode boothill is better not hard to understand Conclusion overall ff better boothill better for moc and aploytic shadow
That DHIL placement is kinda wild ngl. E0 DHIL isn't that great and is definitely not 2 tiers above ratio. I think the placement is biased towards both of them having E2, which is a different unit at that point.
@@iSUMMONYTthe placement of many characters, I don’t know if it’s actually on purpose but some are pretty ridiculous if I have to be honest and also your placement varies depending on every character and it’s never the same, if someone asks why you put boothill in SSS it’s because he claps AS and MoC so no need to PF sure but then you put two characters who are basically only PF (Argenti and jade, mostly jade) in S, while ratio is basically a somewhat weaker boothill but he’s still pretty underrated there, misha stronger than jingliu, idk how Jing yuan lower than serval…? If we’re gonna give Argenti the possibility of being super buffed with sparkle & company then JY should get it too (Argenti is also very slow to ult without tingyun) and he becomes both a single target and aoe monster when you can ensure he’s not crowd controlled and he’s buffed by sparkle, Luka and sushang difference is also questionable and HTB is definitely too low
I don't really have many opinions on E0S0 DPS. I have E0S0 Dr. Ratio I guess, and I never use him because my E1S1 DPSes do better than him off element. My advice is honestly just to not use E0S0 DPS, lol. A tierlist orbiting E0S0 DPS just is meh to me since I think even if you are F2P, so long as you aren't new, you should strongly consider S1 for your limited DPS, and E1 for some of your supports, like for Ruan Mei and Robin, etc. I can say that as an E1S1 Jingliu haver, I've 0 cycled MoC 12 with her without too much trouble, just her best teams these days are kind of greedy on the supports they want. I can get full reward clears on Jingliu in Apoc without any trouble as well. Even in PF, she can pair with Herta in ice weak stages that have a lot of elites and do really good. So, for me, I don't really experience what is being talked about, but perhaps the E1S1 plays a part in that? My Jingliu does have 350 CV outside of battle as well in a non-rainbow set, so that matters too probably, but all my DPS I use tend to have solid relics these days so it's whatever. I think putting BootHill at SSS when he is pretty bad in PF is a bit bias. It's not like Hunts can't do any good in PF either, as we do see units like Seele do solid in it, and even Dr. Ratio and Topaz is pretty usable in a FUA oriented buff for PF at least. Unless we got like some sort of 100% advance on break PF buff, I just don't really see Boothill ever being good in PF. Regardless of how you feel about PF, it is still one of the three end game modes, so just ignoring it in rankings for Boothill is a bit questionable to me, but whatever. For me, who uses units at E1 and S1 typically, I'd make these adjustments... The characters that do great in MoC, great in Apoc, and great in PF in the right teams, are Acheron and FF, so I would put them in SSS personally. Acheron is only that good in PF with a good DoT team, but I think it's valid to consider units on their ideal teams for things. DoTeron has always been a crazy performing PF team for me, and honestly tackles MoC and Apoc very well too. But, Acheron also can utilized hyper setups, so she's very versatile and a great 0 cycler for MoC 12 due to that as well. I used her to 0 cycle MoC 12 Node 2 this time around using a double Harmony 1 nihility setup despite her not being E2 with no issues on the damage what so ever. And, yeah, FF has been crushing all the modes. The FF + Himeko team is superb, great at even 0 cycling PF. Maybe her apoc ceiling isn't as high as some others due to not being able to break more than 3 units at a time quickly, but I still managed to get a 385x+ clear on her despite that which is far above the threshold for a good clear there, so, yeah... Her only weakness I guess is enemies that can't be broken, but I doubt we will ever be in a situation where both sides of an end game mode has enemies like that, so you can just pin her against the one that doesn't. So, I'm not too bothered about that at this point. I'd move Jingliu upto SS for my experience with her, as I said before, she does have setups where she can thrive in all three modes, just not at the level of FF and Acheron. For ice weak PF stages, her + Herta is a legitimate strat since it's been very common lately to include a lot of elites. I'd also put Kafka and Black Swan in SS as well, as I also can just thrive in all end game content with both, quite handedly. DoTeron is a great team with them of course, but just double support also performs very well too. I wouldn't put them on the same level of Acheron and FF at this time though. They aren't quite there, but still really solid just like Jingliu.
I agree. The reason we did E0S0 is because thats more likely to be the case for the most amount of people. But yeah I do agree that of the character is meant to be your main DPS, investing in S1 is recommended for sure. Also Jingliu at E1S1 is another chara ter the dmg goes through the roof but we do talk about that. You need to keep improving your Jingliu with Eidolons or Better relics to keep up now a days
e0s0 Jing liu compared to an e1s1 is night and day which is partly why she is rated low on this tier list. it is 'f2p' considering no eidelons are sig LC. This is because Jing liu basically requires her signature LC to remain competitive compared to dps who outperform her with f2p options.
@@iSUMMONYT Absolutely!! His multiplier is just so well rounded, whoever (buffer) you pair him with, he can benefit from. And with stronger and stronger harmony characters being released, his DPS output is increasing drastically comparing to some of the other characters who already has initial stat benefits. BEAST ALL THE WAY!!
People who are crying about PF must realize while yes it’s considered in the list it’s by far the easiest mode like just slap on a herta/himeko/black swan with anyone and they will clear PF lol
See, this is why I make these videos. You see the light my friend. People tripping over PF just havent built Himeko or Herta and thinks its hard because of it. Straight facts🔥
@@iSUMMONYTi mean I agree with you. But in that case, Jade/Argenti should not be nowhere near as high. You put them above Ratio. This makes me think you valued each gamemode semi equally.
really curious how that one firefly main be acting like after that boothill video dropped cause all these firefly showcases have her best team at e2 minimum with her best and only team
@@alexandercornelius8368 lingsha she breaks horrendously, hunt march for ruan mei??? thats a bad point one is a buffer one is a sub dps. plus she takes forever to break the enemy without gallager and this is dps only without ruan mei and gallager, shes literally nothing
@@alexandercornelius8368 plus without those 2, she takes forever to break the enemy so yea you can but its so much of a pain and this is dps not sub dps and support battle. Boothill lacks supports and even a good break healer, she has everything you need and her bis is slightly better than boothill.
@@angelixaroxe2986 nah if u make ur shifu gallagher march toughness reduction is stupidly high u can use march and asta to clear and I am saying ppl will have more options as they can decide lingsha or gallagher honestly not hard to work out
Overall one of the best tier list in my opinion, but i would disagree with Boothill being that high, bcs this is tier list for all three end game mode he is a beast in MOC and AS, but fell off in PF. While Acheron is great in all three but but not as great as Boothill in AS. While FF does pretty good in all three game mode.
Imo a character that gives you fast, reliable clears on the 2 hardest modes in the game with little to no investment cant go anywhere else. But I see what youre saying and youre not wrong by having that opinion.
BootHill is the tough sell on the list, everything else is ok, BootHill is good but single target holds him back from aoe friendly content. I say this as someone who likes the character and how American he is.
E0S0 Acheron just doesn't do it for me her stacking mechanic is too bad I'm running silver wolf, pela and fu xuan with the LC that gives debuffs sometimes it takes me two cycles to get her 10 stack ultimate
I can see where youre coming from. I just think that BH makes MOC and AS soo braindead easy that I can easily place him higher than FF and Acheron. Contrary to what people may think BH is not married to RM or HMC, nor he needs specific teammates to unlock his DMG. You can just buff him up with whatever you have and hes putting out 300k at least.
@@iSUMMONYTfirefly does that too and if u remove ruam mei for asta in a firefly team it still does 340k and know she attack like 3 to 4 times per cycle. and about the teammates galagher is a 4 star hes easy to get hmc is free and if u dont have rm use asta yeah u lose some damage but i cleared mo 12 the follow up one for yunli with ff, asta, hmc and gallagher in 3 clycles thats 7 cycles for the other side dont tell me that with a f2p setup boothill can do it faster remebter boothill need to ramp up his stack before he cooks
@@akinkunmiakoni5784don't forget that the boss you fought with FF was past present and Eternal which is catered towards firefly the cc himself even said that he reached 700k dmg with firefly fighting that boss
this is great finally a reason to build my misha e6 anyways keep the collabs going and id like to see a "team tier list" next if possible or at least a support tier list
Great insight! Please note that this is pve you can clear content with anyone you like, I have kingyuan with his sig and I've been clearing great with sparkle and tingyun. There's always way around things as long as you understand the mechanic but this guide is more for ease of access and building. I have collected most of the characters except adventurine and boothill over two accounts in HSR, it's been an amazing run with kingyuan since 1.0
After watching the whole thing I think I’ve found the reason for some of the gripes I have with this list The list is based on a F2p/normal investment setting but some of the criteria/techs used to rate some of the units especially the unconventional ones are not F2p in nature at all and cannot be easily reached at this current time in the game
@@iSUMMONYT the groundwork required for characters like Himeko(disregarding choir), Jade, serval, luka, Robin to be ranked over some of the 5star dpses on A&B and Misha>Jingliu isn’t something you’d find on accounts rocking E0S0 and even then I feel the applications aren’t as universal as the 5 stars. Regarding boothill, it’s a tricky one, are we ranking based on No sustains? Flexibility or just F2p nature. Because imo if it’s just the F2p nature he’s in line with the other two as SS. If it’s regarding no sustain runs then we circle back to the conundrum of “does an account rocking E0S0 investments have the available resources to meet that level?”
@@HSRMOC context is, his F2p performance,is it really a tier above the other two for an actual F2p For example look at the latest video from Wyatt(great video btw), but how many f2ps are gonna have a 175 boothill s5 DDDs and high speed eagle set to meet the performance shown in those clips You get me?
@@sev559 Stats are one thing, an f2p could very well have 175 speed and they could not, which depends on how much you want to invest. the problem is a lot of the dps under him require signature light cones to reach their peak low-investment e0 level. boothill kinda just ignores LC and doesn't require a specific team unlike dhil, firefly. BH can also just be thrown in a lot of teams and still work. thats one of the reasons he is good, run him with an aoe unit and he still pops off, there is little drop in his personal damage. I think there can be an argument for acheron being in the same tier as BH. but at best I think Boothill being in SS tier with the other dps is the most realistic compromise. If this really is ranking based on all game modes I dont think there is a clear SSS tier dps. theyre probably all 4 in SS tier.
Thanks for this! I'm still struggling with Pure Fiction because I still don't have Himeko or DoT teamcomp and I didn't get Jade. Judging by your tierlist that takes PF into account, I will pull for Boothill in the next rerun 😊
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go off yourself
Based SSS Boothill. Most people rate Acheron and Firefly higher mostly because they are auto characters.
-enters the video
-looks at the end
-"this doesn't make sense"
-looks a bit before
-that makes a bit more sense
😂😂 dang almost had you
Barges in
Skips to end to see full tierlist
Leaves
🗿
Idk why i find this so funny wtf 🤣
@@iSUMMONYT Because it's true
Since this teir list is based off of all game modes, he is NOT doing well in pure fiction. He cracked, but not at that level.
How does that take away from what hes doing in the other 2 harder modes? You need to deal more dmg to clear in MOC12 and AS than to clear PF. He is so damn good in MOC and AS that imo his PF doesnt matter. He's the only charcater in the game that can even have this argument.
@@iSUMMONYT well i mean theres a reason hes not at the top of every list. just like why argenti and jade arent at the top of other lists, he has zero aoe and they have zero single target. even though hes the best at single target. acheron is still better all around
@@iSUMMONYT damn you're delusional
@@The_CodFish69 OK MIDFLY FAN.
@@The_CodFish69 without rm or hmc she's even worse than hook
Oh, you are friends with Wyatt!? I love that dude he is a beast and helped me go from a casual newbie to someone who REALLY understands the game and the weight of each stat and action.
No wonder you both are my two favorite HSR content creators nowadays...
Aye lets go! Wyatt is one of the coolest people ive met during my YT journey and he makes banger content too so Im glad we share some of the audience 💪
Who let bros cook.. even acheron who's good at 3 mode isn't in SSS tier. Kafka and BS team can have more 5* but other teams need to follow your standard f2p requirement.
Ever read/understand the word "f2p" ,
Kafka and BS are lower than Acheron I dont know what youre even mad about. Being good doesnt make Acheron the best either, her performance in PF for example is obviously worse than HimekoHerta, as for the restrictions, all characters are supposed to be e0s0, and no one is saying Acheron can’t have the one 5* teammate she can use (due to her Nihillity restriction) Silver Wolf, not that Silver Wolf is that impactful anyway, what are you saying you actual d**************
The issue is, F2P is a very loose term. Any F2P player can have a full team of 5 stars, while the other will only have 1 or 2
Tell me in what world ur dogshit acheron and firefraud does 0 cycle E0S0 pls tell me loser
I don’t get it, what’s the point in putting a criteria when you don’t use it fully? And why are we taking into account flexibility if it isn’t apart of the criteria? Am I missing something, because this feels all over the place and messy…
Edit: The more I looked at the tierlist, the more I’m confused. It’s like some characters are judged by all three game modes, and others just aren’t.
@@The_CodFish69 SHut up MIdfly FAn.
Dunno what is confusing to you. They explained their reasoning well. FF and Acheron output is mid compared to Boothill's, that's a fact no amount of cope will fix.
"i am so confused when the tier list doesn't fit my preconceived notions!"
@@SM-oc4rc What cope? Also, never even brought up Boothill, but if you’re ready to white knight I guess I’ll have to respond.
Boothill just doesn’t, end of story.
It’s not controversial, it’s just how it is. One game mode he’s borderline useless in (Which funnily enough should mean he should be lower, lol), and the other two he’s pretty good in. But that’s pretty much all it. He’s harder to play than both Acheron and Firefly, that’s just a fact. Boothill NEEDS smaller enemies beside in MOC or else his ramp up is absolutely atrociously long. Firefly, just use skill once and bang bang. Acheron, just spam skill for her and her teammates, spam ult, bang bang. Easy to play, easy to run, and works in all three game modes and performs the same number of cycles as him. Could argue Acheron E0S0 isn’t too good in PF which I do agree, but is most definitely better then Boothill which is undeniable unless a very very niche team.
Don’t even know why this was even brought up since I didn’t even mention brotha’s name, but the d-riders do be riding. And it’s not like I’m lying either, went through comments and saw he even acknowledge that he didn’t take in PF for Boothill, but everyone else did (Maybe not for Jade either, she’s way too high lolz).
A little bone toss as well, zero cycles are zero cycles. Can’t be faster than that so there’s no point in arguing, “Well this character cleared faster than that character” if they both clear zero cycles. Hope this helps, grab your shield on your way out…
@@SM-oc4rc As you say, it’s THEIR criteria. No adding. It’s in THEIR criteria. If they say they’re using this criteria to judge then turn face away to talk about “Oh, well this character is more flexible” when that has nothing to do with what they brought up. It’s a reasonable thing to call out, is it not?
You are fully right about boothill, I will say though, respectfully combing moc apocalyptic shadow and pure fiction in the same tierlist was completely wrong as it’s just biasing moc as the most relevant so that is your huge mistake they need separate tierlists
I'll have a separate format for future TL
Boothill should be penalized for his pure fiction performance since this is average of the 3 modes
the funny thing is the cc keeps replying mocand aployticshadow more important no it isnt all the modes are equally as important because of the jades u get from them@@The_CodFish69
Never once mentioned the jades. I said the modes are harder. They require a higher DPS output to clear. PF doesnt require High DPS output but high frquency of DPS which makes it easier to acheive.
Also 35k score on PF with BH is good enough for max rewards on it so idk what yall on about
@@iSUMMONYT not what he is saying mate why would u pull boothill meaning he would have to waste his pulls on someone like jade so he can clear pf when he can get ff clear all modes and would have spare jade's to pull for support
@@The_CodFish69not even slightly better nope straight up way worse there wasnt even a lot of electric weak ennmies this moc acheron was mainly used off element qnd her average clear cycles still higher than bh
Yes, he absolutely trash in purefiction, this tierlist is absolutely joke 😅
This is the most based tier list, even though it hurts my soul to see Jingliu at near bottom of A. Very good explanation and justification for the placement of each character like how Firefly has a very high floor for near no investment but limited ceiling while Acheron has a lower floor but also the highest ceiling that will only get better the more nihility characters introduced, making her slightly edge out Firefly with her still uncapped potential. Only thing is I don't think Boothill should be placed in SSS because he is held back severely in PF even though he dominates MOC and AS. Characters in the SS tier like Firefly and Acheron perform well in all three modes.
But then I guess you can justify that PF you don't need to main your dps in there since you can just replace them with F2P characters like Herta and Himeko, making that mode less pertinent to ranking these characters.
I understand the BH point. But I guess what Wyatt and I failed to explain is that BH trivializes PF and AS so much that his performance in PF doesnt really affect his DPS potential all that much.
@@iSUMMONYT That alone is a bad statement to base his ranking on... cause then you will need to apply the same logic to everyone or either throw all the criteria away and ranking all of them base on his dmg. Tbh if one or two people are in a disagree then maybe its personal taste but when many people starts to point out something its simply not coincidence. Overall tier list is good but you meesed up on BH. Also Hunt characters will always be in disadvantage due being single target. Only way a Hunt character can compete is having a kit like Seele or soon Feixiao and pretty sure if Feixiao is everything they are talking about you will then realize BH shouldnt be there. Unfortunaly AoE characters are most of the time if not always going to be better.
@@laelfernandez9thank you that statement is so bad cause ur going to argue boothill is better than firefly and acheron in moc no what about pf no and in AS hes oly sligly better than firefly and acheron can still clear good in AS. in term of f2p friendly firefly wins here no debate and acheron is the hardest but if u have that build u can put boothill at the top of the list.
@@somerandomguy340ok if thats true and PF is less important because u can use chracter like herta which specialize in that why is jade and argenti so high they only shine in pf which make their placement on this list foolish
I'm so much happier with my Firefly than my (E0S0) Acheron. Though, to be fair, I did get her to E1S1 and then much later on her E2, I appreciate her higher damage floor. I don't know if I'm just investing too widely but while my break and dot units have pretty much finished gear, I don't think I've got any Crit units with base stats better than 60/120 other than Jingliu.
Trying to get double crit stats and then getting those to actually roll well is such a pain, and then every new character I end up picking up needs it in a new set anyway. Maybe I do need to go back and just farm Acheron relics for another patch or something, but I'm hoping I can eventually solve this with more break supports in the future.
Current meta is break, any dps who can't manipulate and match enemies toughness bar would suffered from it. Especially after hoyo custom made boss for that one character😅
That's why FF is such high on list
Putting Boothill over Acheron and FF is probably the most astronomically hottest take in HSR this patch. And im a Boothill main with E1S1. He is not close to them at all. FF almost does his job better in AS and that tbh is embarrassing considering its THE hunt unit mode and the only way hes usable in PF in my testing is as a Himeko FU battery with the elite breaks.
I used Boothill at E0S0 to compare before I upgraded and I can not even imagine using him without his E1. Just the ramp alone slows you down astronomically unless you use Bronya. E0 Acheron can just slap on a Pela and another debuffer and she can pop off, FF pops off even at e0 just by existing next to Gallagher and HMC, Boothills team requierements are way more complex. If you dont have Ruan Mei for example its a bust. If you dont have E1 and theres no small ads its Bronya or bust. Gallaghers is permanently stuck there aswell. Its just TOUGH. And given how break damage scales most buffers do nothing for him bar Hanya for hyper speed and Pela for def shred. Thats too manny characters you want for only 1 stat while you have 2 free slots to work with.
If Acheron and FF are A bazooka, and an Assault rifle Boothill is ironically a revolver. Yeah its a deadly weapon and its cool, but its much harder to use and reload.
There is no character in the game that breaks enemies faster thant BH. Also BH placement is not just his dmg, its because he slices through MOC and AS like its nobodys business with very little invenstment. Ive 1 cycled with a 3 star LC on day 1 of his release. He makes the 2 hardest modes in the game so easy that his PF performance doesnt affect his placement.... IN MY OPINION.
However I do see where you are coming from and you def have a valid argument for sure.
@@iSUMMONYT I agree with you, but why is Herta so low in that case? Isn't she supposed to basically trivialize one of the gamemodes too?
Also, on a slight tangent, is Argenti really on the same tier as KafkaSwan and better than Jingliu and DrRatio really overrall?
It seems like you weigh MoC and AS heavier, as they are harder. But aren't they both stronger in MoC and AS?
DrRatio is also decent in PFs where there are fua buffs.
@@arjunmuruganandam3373 Herta trivializes the easiest gamemode. MOC, AS and PF all have diff levels of difficulties (as of rn) PF has always been the easier one. So much so that a fully F2P character and a 5star that was considered the worst 5 star (Himkeo) are able to be the best at that mode without dealing more dmg.
@@arjunmuruganandam3373 and Yeah Aregenti was severly slept on even by me. He is absolutely a fantastic dmg dealer but he is just not very exviting to play and doesnt have a lot of hype.
Just wanna compare how much dmg your boothil deals with just the team buff ?
People forget that this is e6 four stars. they are arguably harder to get than an e0s0 five star. of course they are going to be generally stronger
I be 100% agree with the Boothill take, I was saying I pulled Firefly to be a sub dps to Boothill
True! She’s Boothill’s ideal sub DPS
Them 2 together are a menace fr
the DHIL cope is unreal. does not come close to ratio atm. even with f2p teams, ratio edges out over firefly and acheron. sites like prydwen ignore the stats because the amount of hate would be crazy.
Isummon i belive that u are one of the best tc for star rail and i trust your opinion but man, this might be the worse tier list that i ever saw in hsr lmao, jade being SS when she is only good in PF, FF on the same tier as jingliu/seele/ratio, DHIL on the same tier as acheron and boothill on SSS there are so many things that are soooooo off it is actually insane, i don't want to write a essey so i won't go in details on why i thinks that all of this placement are completely bs
Edit: well u got me, usually in this videos i comment first and watch later, the boothill placement is still wrong tho
He got you lmao
@@Brunel__br wdym? Im i missing something, i didn't really watched the intire video
@@recker4267 try to rewind back to the end of the Aventurine part to get the real tierlist
@@Brunel__broh i see, well it looks way better, but the boothill placement is still off
@@recker4267 yea i know considering he is not as good in PF, and in MOC there is considered a "bad match up" for him while Acheron doesn't have that problem
Boothil Trivializes Moc and AS
Yeah, so does Acheron and Firefly and they can still do good in PF 😂😂😂
Not as easy as BH tho! You can literally 0 cycle without a LC not even running HMC.
this in a casual perspective in thining is an omega big brain thinker and wdymfirefly can clear faster than boothill, also without a lc rlly ok if soo make ur next video a boothill 0 cycle no hmc or rm.
is there a video that bh 0cycle moc w/o lc and hmc? i want to see it
@@lucazgaming3079 since you asked i found a few but this is one they show the build in game
ruclips.net/video/Wcek2OAcNF0/видео.html
@@The_CodFish69 Key word "this MoC" but i do agree that boothill shouldn't be SSS but i dont agree firefly should be higher
Jing liu in A tier is the funniest shit ive seen this week and I'm here for it. Based af. It's at a point where I can clear easier with some of my e6 4 stars than Mid liu. And yes e6 misha is better than Jing liu.
They dont wanna hear that lol
I can actually use my lvl 1 e6 misha? Hell yeah 😎
yalls reasoning is so inconsistent if you take into consideration how often topaz and numby do their attacks why not do the same with FF? she deals about the same or even more damage than BH and does it more frequently due to o her insane speed also shes so much better in PF, also how is not having a flexible team comp a negative for her when her best team consists of 2 f2p characters? but then ig yall value team flexibility more than me. everything except the attack frequency goes for acheron as well, so i just dont see how those 2 arent at the top, BH us top 3 definitely but FF and acheron are clearly better
Which nihility character can fully utilize s5 boundless choreo outside Acheron. Hope someone make showcase for it .
E2+ Welt can use it. But that LC was made for Acheron for sure
Nice tier list and I agree 100%, when Boothill breaks an enemy he is guaranteed dead, either by the basic attacks or the massive bleed. Also seeing Ourgenti so high is great, been using him in all 3 game modes and his performance is amazing in all of them
Yeah people just hyperfixate on Acheron and FF and even DHIL but ignore other characters that may perform even better in some cases.
Wow my 2 favorite under the radar content creators i love this collab.
We love you too 💪
Bait used to be believable 😤
Whats not to believe from this list?
@@iSUMMONYT I think he is talking about the Jade and FF swap. he prob skipped to the end of the vid
There HAS to be a way in 2.4 to get Yanqing doing good numbers surely? He scales on atk and dmg% so i would put him with robyn and Ruan mei. SURELY......
The problem with him is keeping his DPS up. Theres realjstically 1 charactee that can do that which is Aventurine but even then the shields get broken every now and then and once that happens his dps is essentially shut down completely. Thats the issue he actually has solid multipliers
@@iSUMMONYT I whaled a bit on Aventurine and went E1S1 and thats makes his shields rarely ever broken so if the shields dont go down who should I place in the remaining two slots you think? Was I right with atk and dmg buffing or should i max out cdmg with sparkle and robyn? Sorry you wouldn't have time to reply to everyone so ill play around with it after I have built my lost 50/50.......i mean Yanqing.....
There should be a disclaimer to clarify if y'all are taking into consideration all 3 endgame modes for the tier list. BH and Jade that high? Sorry but it's just coal. Acheron is the only one I can see being SSS. Why are BS and Kafka there when their team requires 4(!!!) limited 5star?
Cause its abt their damage and not how f2p they can be
@@Zentai_Kun "F2P DPS" on the thumbnail...
look at criteria
@@akinkunmiakoni5784 literally says nothing. Why are acheron and dhil there then? "FF doesn't do 1m dmg" she does +500k per skill 4 times practically in a row? E0S0 is nothing to work with. BH SSS, what about him in PF? Jade E0S0(!!!), what about her outside of PF? Overall performance across 3 modes is nonsense, you have to separate them.
Boothills bad in pure fiction he should not be sss I do think people are sleeping on him but just no sorry he's not better then acheron
Seeing Robin above some 5star dps hits different (I don’t agree nor disagree) but it’s just hilarious to think it’s a consideration atp
you should see hyper robin i didnt believe it as well but robin hits hard
@@TokitoRen5633 Fr, although to be fair I think it is heavily dependent on her E1 and S1. The absolute shenanigans you can enable with her though...gosh. I've seen Ruri Goko 0 cycle MOC 12 Argenti both this and last MoC with hypercarry Robin, Bronya, Pela, and Tingyun. This truly is our Honkai: Support Rail.
Good convo bro! We’ll run this back when feixao drops.
Good to have you on bro! 💪 We for sure gotta have another for Feixiao for sure
yes! another tier list updated in a few months would be great!
demmm the boothill shill goes crazy with this one
Its all been proven. Im a DHIL main so if I were to shill it would be for Danny Boy
Yes, u are right, his dmg is insanely good in well execution, I personally will put him in same tier as ss chars to go for, as hunt chars sometime suffer in auto mode. Just my perspective who prefers easy mode.
The firefly slander. 😂😂😂. Her tAeM iS tOo EAsY tHERes no RoOm to ThEOry craft😂😂😂 lol
Might as well have said the same thing about Boothill. He uses same EASY FTP team. Pretty much.
I mean it's the truth, her team has very little wiggle room unless we get more break characters support
@@Brunel__br well her team is literally free so whats the point of using other characters if u have her teammate already, even without ruan mei other def shredders works fine. whats the point of being flexible when you really just want her to use in her best team which the 2 are free?
@@miggggguel no, i completely agree with you, im just saying that its hard to change somone in her team, at the emd what is the point of team variation when one team can complete all game mode while being coat effective too.
Im not sure. I feel like even if FF has just so little ways to expand, Like yes Miss Mecha is cool but Break Effect (and ATK in a way )being the only stat she can use is such a pain bc you need to only get those rolls on ur relics. And she is good right now she is def not future proof IMO i think boothill is because he expands out more and he has way more team comps and is versatile.
Boothill at e0s0 not overtake Acheron and Firefly in all three content, this just shit tier list
Dunno what is confusing to you. They explained their reasoning well. FF and Acheron output is mid compared to Boothill's, that's a fact no amount of cope will fix.
@@SM-oc4rc u the one coping man, boothill literly just mid compared to Acheron and FF
@@SM-oc4rc all other cals, statics, tier list and video show Acheron and FF is much better than Boothill, this tier list is just shit, inaccurate while other tier list say otherwise, it a fact, mannn boothill mains is hell of a delusional bunch of invidual who full of themself and not taking real fact and taking this tier list seriously when it just all fail information
@SM-oc4rc well technically ff and acgeron are better as they can be used in all 3 modes and clear it unlike boothill u cope harder
@@The_CodFish69here comes another midfly fans who got triggered because of their b¡tch midfly rated lower than cyborg cowboy 😂
Haven‘t watched it yet but I gotta push the algorithm for you :D
Hyped for your opinion.
Aye I appreciate you 💪 You one of the real ones!
Clara definitely belongs in the same tier as Ratio; Especially when you consider the fact that she often times out DPS's him in both MoC and AS (because she synergizes better with the extra actions turbulence buffs) while being able to full clear in most Pure Fiction scenarios.
Once Yunli's light cone comes out that's only going to further the gap.
I guess if you're trying to 0 cycle I can see placing her behind but even then her versatility across all end game formats would bump her up for me.
In general, despite one of your criteria's being versatility I don't believe you guys did a good job incorporating that into your tier list. Boothill being SSS despite being absolute ass cheeks in PF is a good example, here. Acheron's versatility in all end game modes should've made her the only SSS character
U forgot to read the criteria, he said E0S0, Acheron and Clara needs their LC to shine
Good luck attacking with clara with that abysmal base 90 speed
@@kooweijing9061 False, Clara does just fine with Fall of an Aeon (2nd best lightcone in terms of DPS) and Acheron is still insanely good GNSW
@@The_CodFish69 Personally, I'm waiting to see how she does in MoC when it's not catered to her and I've full cleared multiple PF's with Acheron and struggled to hit 25k with my Firefly team despite her being e1 in this one. I know she can clear with Himeko but I sadly don't have her
@@heyohworld4067 wrong, Clara's second best LC is her sig, first being Yunli's, third being Blade's, then FOAA is the next one. Acheron somewhat falls off due to slower ult recharge without her sig LC. So I would agree their justification. What I see disagree with them is putting BH up high, as he doesn't shine in PF but still be one of the best minimal relic investment out of any other characters in other contents. Another is Seele, she can clear every content, even 0 cycling (from my experience of maxed out relic rolls), but she needs a lot of relic investment to clear every content regardless of weakness breaking outside AS. For AS contents with no quantum weakness, Silver Wolf is gonna be the BIS team for that situation. Seele, being one of the oldest character, still able to shine due to synergy with newer characters, like Robin and Sparkle. For this, I will have to consider the cost of characters as well for her team set up. I will put Seele in S.
Edit: Also, this tier list don't really address current MoC, PF and AS buff more rather in general.
I’m sorry, Boothill and Firefly both need to go down one tier and Acheron should be SSS. Acheron is near flawless in all game modes, very flexible team comps, and can brute force most of the current break-focused content. Don’t get me wrong, I love Boothill: amazing kit, love the hybrid playstyle, very flexible comps unlike FF, very underrated by much of the community. That said, he’s garbage in pure fiction so why’s he in SSS? Jingliu was put in A bc she sucks in PF (and in the break meta in general, but I still use her just fine), so why does Boothill get a pass? They both devour skill points and they both suck when not in their particular stances. And FF…. 🙄 She has the most inflexible comp and does very little damage if the enemy isn’t weakness broken fast enough.
That’s the problem with HSR tierlists bc at some point bias always creeps in. This isn’t like other games where you’re simply reviewing a patch 1.1 character to a 2.1 character. A character’s success in HSR is heavily dependent on the current end-game buffs bc it helps Hoyo sell the latest limited character(s). And they’ve mastered that concept at this point in the game. Every patch these tierlists are flipped around not because a character is suddenly bad, but bc the current content doesn’t cater to their playstyle. This tierlist would’ve been 100x more credible if it was based on how well characters do in all game modes without their specific moc/pf/as buffs: Acheron, DHIL, Black Swan, Kafka and, to a lesser extent lately, Jingliu.
I STILL brute force content with her and I’ve had her at E0S1 since her release. Her issue is that the game has introduced more multi-staged content (very little ice content at that), and she hasn’t had a new bis support in several patches now. We’ve been getting attack buffer after attack buffer but Jingliu likes dmg buffs, def shred, res shred, and energy. When Hoyo decides to release a 5 star version of Pela or Tingyun and/or another 100% advance forward support like Bronya, Jingliu is going to shoot right back up. But right now the current content isn’t made with her in mind so she’s stagnating.
But is having diff opinions a bad thing? Would me putting BH above the "conventional" best dps not make you think that perhaps people are sleeping on BH. Like I said its not just me that thinks this way eithe, Wyatt literally plays this game almost all day everyday so maybe there is a conversation to be had. We were just trying to start it.
@@iSUMMONYT no, having a different opinion is a wonderful thing. I also like Wyatt’s out of the box content and creative playstyle. But that’s not what you all did here. You inflated certain characters and lowered another despite their similar faults and weaknesses for the sake of “starting a conversation”. As a content creator it’s irresponsible to project bias into your content bc there are those spending their hard-earned money and/or in-game savings based on your opinions. If you no longer like a character, cool, say that. Just don’t falsely promote another over them because you feel they need more love.
@@ajw.5778 e0s0 acheron is not the same as e0s1 acheron. i dont enjoy rating characters without their light cone but I understand why isummon and wyatt chose to do it that way. boothill doesn't need his light cone to perform and he can fit in various comps including dot and even with acheron (his stack generation can be impressive) and still dish out incredibly high dps.
@@jaydifeo def agree on that point. However, they were also grading each character’s performance in each game mode. Boothill is terrible in pf. And Acheron does just fine with GNSW, her stack generation just takes a bit longer.
@@ajw.5778 he's not terrible in PF, that's a fallacy. aside from him being the main dps in PF, he can fit in comps with Kafka/Swan, Acheron, FF, Himeko, etc. the idea that hunt units are automatically bad in PF is just not true.
W tier list. you guys cooked. I love seeing the waifu simps malding in the comments right now.
Biggest downside of boothill is his survivability and ult weakness implant, but i agree with the dps chart. Dude can easily get 500-700k dmg with E0S1 or 300-500k without his sign, ofc that much damage only applies to og physical weakness type and boss enemies.
Survivability ? Blud u can use hp/def body even hp/def sphere too on him and he still will do op dmg lmao ,
Hes insane
Survivability doesn't matter and its actually better than your average dps because he can delay with his ult, Ult weakness implant isn't that big of a problem
Well.. i mean i was compare him with firefly, but dumb mistake i forgot to write it lol
@@boredperson1011ff has an easier implant and she can still dmg toughness bar without implant aswelp
Isummon didn't coock with this one fr fr. Considering he is "the calcs guy" especially.
If only he calculated dmg numbers before posting 😅
Theres a reason i have the opinion I have. But its ok, i'll just show yall why BH is SSS. At the end of the day, I stand by my opinion but I understand why yall thinks its so off base.
@@iSUMMONYT oh no doubt bh is sss but most of the other takes are plain horrible
Finally a CC who realizes that dhil is way better than jingliu right now and by far, especially since the new break meta.
Let the jingliu copers be humbled😌
DHIL has aged far better than Jingliu, that much is obvious.
Its been obvious for months but Prydwen simps just refuse cause their favorite anime waifu isnt top anymore.
Jingliu is still pretty solid, but Sparkle really makes DHIL a lot stronger than her
It's crazy how people are still putting her on the same tier as him.
Also agree dhil is better but the video was a little weird for me. Rated him higher saying in correct team his SP issue is solved but also didn't acknlowedge the SP management is a positive for jingliu allowing her to use more SP hungry supports. Jinglius issue now is she has too much free stats which can be obtained from the better supports we have but her lower skill multipliers which we can't change are holding her back... dhil in the opposite.. his skill multipliers damn high and the missing stats can be outsourced :
Is this tierlist realy accurate or only joke? I have acheron with signature and firefly without signature, but my firefly always clear moc faster than my acheron, and then this tierlist title is overall performance in moc/pf/as, wtf boothill in sss tier, he absolutely trash in purefiction
These past MOC and AZ are catered towards FF lets just start there so the game is making FF feel better.
Lastly, whats the score one needs to get with BH for him to considered good or decent in PF? Cause on his release there was 35k score BH runs and he can possibly get 30K+ in this current PF. So is it because since he is ST you automatically discard him in this mode? I bet you dont even have BH to try it yourself.
@@iSUMMONYT this curent moc dont have break buff but my firefly clear faster than my acheron
watch out the fighter game master n iyo genshin fan gonna say dhil is b tier and cry coz you cant put male character in s tier
🤣🤣🤣🤣 stop
Boothill doesn't perform well enough in PF to be a whole tier above Acheron and Firefly, who both perform well in all 3 modes, at least in my opinion
Does 35K points count as "well enough"
@@The_CodFish69 Acheron depends mainly on the dot team as a leech (many other characters would be better) and no Firefly isn't that great on PF
@@nuannathan5446no great on PF lmao I run her in every PF ever since I got her her turn comes back fast due to her high speed and it is a 3 hit skill plus her premium team is reliable doing easy 100k + on their own and if u have problems just swap in himeko because firefly can abuse the fire weakness mechanic for her
@@iSUMMONYT Put lvl 1 natasha and jade + argenti still can clear PF LOL
‘No HP buffer for Blade’ *looks at Bailu*
Stares at Lynx
ok bro the moment u put jingliu that low and boothill that high even though jingliu does make sense i believe shes low SS or high S. I have a EOSO jingliu and Dhil and i also have their best team including sparkle and bronya and jingliu does like 280 to 320k on ult and like 200 to 240k on enhaced skill and DHIL does the same and even higher damage sometimes his skill does 400k and ult does 200k so no way this tierlist makes any sense. Argenti and jade over jingliu ik ur smoking crack and btw im a day one dhil guy but i gotta be honest bro u even put misha over jingliu misha the 4 star nerfed version.
Both of these cc are biased towards dhil, and as we known Jingliu had always been on top. Of course when Jingliu has slight disadvantage with current enemies, they'd try to make she like the worst dps.
Because DHIL can use his enchanted skill every turn and Jingliu can do hers every 3-4 turns.. But i was kind of shocked seeing her so low i would say shes atleast medium S tier
You didn't listen did you ? It's a f2p tier list and even if it's not jingliu is just overhyped she's not that good
Yeah the DHIL take doesn’t make much sense to me.
@@Adversary.. idk for this one
this is an amazing tier list! I really appreciated you taking the time to explain each character and the b-roll footage to show really helped me since I'm a visual learner! also please bring Wyatt on more often and I also hope that you guys make a new tier list like this every few 6 months or so! you've opened my eyes to boothill so I'll be pulling him and checking out wyatts videos on teams! I also would love to listen to you guys podcast chat about all ur fav games and the state of hsr or other games etc, just anything! 😊
Tahts what this video is about, opening up yall perspective. I linked a bunch of Wyatts video but he has tons of good ass content to go through. We are discussing a schedule for these kind of videos!
@@iSUMMONYT super excited! y'all are now my two fav HSR cc's! I also watch all of ur WuWa stuff too
Want to put my opinions in cuz ofcourse I am offended.
But trying to be objective as I also do all the endgame modes for my friends. First of all the notion that Pure fiction is easier for everybody is a lie. Being a low spender myself ( 4 express passes and 2 battle passes), I pulled mainly for MOC units, so Destruction units like Jingliu, DHIL and Firefly. I was getting by with using Seele on one side and Herta on the other in Pure Fiction but I literally couldn't get 60k points in the DOT Purefiction, I raised Serval, and Sampo for it and still couldn't.
Secondly playing Boothill a fair bit he isn't head and shoulders above FF, Acheron or DHIL. He is on par at best. His pocket trickshot can get easily scuffed without smaller mobs and at lower investment if he doesn't one shot then he feels significantly shit.
I genuinely feel Acheron is better than the other 3 purely because she'll be maximum one cycle behind the others in MoC and AS while being actually decent in PF.
And no I don't have bias with Acheron.... She's my least liked out of all of the others.
Oh, IL is SS and both people on the video just happen to have E2 and play him a lot AND also have Sparkle, I assume and run him always in with her. But the tier list is for E0S0, and if we are talking Sparkle here, she's not good support for almost any top tier DPSes except for the IL E2 and E2 Acheron, so from the F2P perspective she's straight up garbadge and shouldn't be considered. And that's where I see the problem with this assessment of the IL. It's a little bit too bold to place him 2 whole tiers above totally F2P friendly Jingliu, whille he's working only with niche 5-star support.
I got my E2 after 2 weeks of playing E0S0 without Sparkle cause wasnt even released yet. My SParkle is also E0S0 and I used her on every single team that used Bronya except Jingliu and BH. Jingliu currently needs at the very least her Sig LC to remain competitive. Speaking from someone that has and very much likes his E0S0 Jingliu.
@@iSUMMONYT you shouldn’t reply to someone who genuinely thinks sparkle is useless and garbage lol
It's another midliu copers opinion rejected 😅
Mid liu copers are malding right now
this is probably the worst tier list i have ever seen
🤣k
My break effect sampo+ BS against wind enemies performs just as well as Kafka+BS in my experience
how it burns for those who skipped Boothill😂
I tried to tell'em. Same thing I was saying with RM
Didn't lose put on anything or u would have had to summon on a character who work well in pure fiction
@@UltimatePollo3495 OK midfly FAn
@hahaxd856 ff Is literally one of best dps but ok
@@UltimatePollo3495Herta is right there, and firefly is not doing much in pure fiction either
Wait.. you are telling me that a CC isn’t downplaying dhil and actually acknowledges his strength and how jingliu is overhyped? I can’t believe it
Some things are obvious, people just dont want to see them
Almost no CCs think Jingliu and DHIL are comparable anymore.
Before sparkle this is true. And I dont see any cc that hypes her anymore, infact both of them doesnt have hype anymore, completely overshadowed by newer dpses
@@arjunmuruganandam3373 Nah bhai, there are some stupid big name CCs perpetuating the myth about "Uhhh if you give any DPS 3SP they will match his damage", like OK stupid? But will they output 3xSP worth of damage every turn like him? Other DPS will take 3 turns doing 3xSP damage and in that time he has also taken 3 turns doing 9xSP damage.
@@arjunmuruganandam3373some either mrpokkeo still do or just completely forgot about how good Dhil is and a big example is the completely unbiased prydwen tierlist like I have no idea how jingliu is still T0.5 with dhil
How the hell is boothill on SSS if pf is taken into account
He can clear PF
Cause he gives MOC and AS for free. Those are the 2 hardest modes in the game. We can all agree that AS and MOC are harder than PF. He trivializes those 2 modes, imo those outweigh his PF performance.
yes but so does firefly and shes better in pf like what
@@akinkunmiakoni5784 they said why boothil is THE f2p friendly characters where e0s0 3* lc some support and he melt MOC and AS where ff need her lc her single team that she can't change, with RM Gallagher (idk how many eidolons ) and if you really want to do PF with her you need her e2 even some ff with sig lc and her team deal as much if not less dmg than my boothill random 4* lc random relics and with Bronya-hmc-gepard/luocha
@@iSUMMONYTpure fiction is harder than MoC imo, you basically lose if you can’t use the buffs or you don’t use the PF carries. i can bring any carry in MoC and still get 5 cycle per half clears, not the case with PF if it has a DoT buff. I think with that logic Himeko and Herta should be higher on the list because they make every pure fiction so far free.
Our General 😭
Boothill being in the top of the chart makes 0 sense, u based in on a ranking of average score of all 3 modes, he performs worse then Firefly and Acheron in both MoC and PF and slightly better then Firefly in AS (marginal). That being said his f2p lc options are tragic to say the least. From most tests ive seen he performs better with the Firefly superbreak team because his team can actually do dmg instead of giving him double actions, and everyone else hitting like a limp nooble. Case in point this moc both sides are horrible for Boothil, one side has 2 elites to start (womp womo stacks) and other side has low toughness bars (womp womp break dmg). Lastly, this is more of a personal take but a Hunt unit can never be the best damage dealer in the game, they severely lack in coverage and Boothil comes short like the rest of his Hunt peers in this regard, hopefully Feixao doesnt follow suit
I agree on everything but both sides being bad for him. I 2 cycled side 2 with him making a few mistakes with 0 stress.
@@arcanacoltic971considering this is a tier list for all game modes it doesn't really make sense to make him higher than Acheron and Firefly since he sucks at PF
@@Brunel__br I know. I'm just referring to your moc comment.
We forgot to explain that BH trivializes MOC and AS soo much that his PF performance doesnt hinder his placement. He literally makes you not have to worry about 1 side of each mode. He just gives you fast full clears with little investment and effort. We shoudlve specified that.
@@iSUMMONYT um firefly and acheron do that better in MOC acheron and firefly and a lot better and easier to use and in PF acheron and firefly are also better and in AS boothill is only slighly and barely better than them both by logic and sense its 2 to 1 acheron and firefly have him beat. ill make a case that acheron need a good amount of investment to become the dps she is but firefly give her meh relic level some traces get some break and speed and she will literlly set the seas ablaze
Its sad to see, but I 100% agree with Jingliu being bottom of A tier now. She's felt horrible for me since 2.0 when she was previously my best unit.
truly a 'mid' liu moment
She was never the best unit.
@@jaydifeo OP said "their' best unit lmao
I think the list is confusing, making it a DPS tier list, but then placing units based on utility as well is kinda weird. At some point I started thinking it was a troll list, I think I'll stick to Prydwen to judge the power level of characters. There is too much criteria on this list.
Its purely just DPS potential at E0S0 whats so hard about it?
Also prydwen..... ok lol
@@iSUMMONYT and that's the issue. It wasn't just DPS potential in a single category. It combined MOC and PF. Some units were considered standalone, some were considered with their BiS teams. I think if you redid the list and evaluated each character in their best teams and you seperate the content by categories you would have a better more refined list. There was also criteria that you talked about like their f2p friendliness and such, which I don't really care much for in a dps tier list. And that's what made it confusing, too many variables was used in this list, not just DPS potential. That's why separating units into damage dealers and supports is important. I didn't see just E0 S0 from this video.
@iSUMMONYT I mean didnt prydwen do the calcs? What I dont get in your tierlist is why on earth is boothill at top? I like him but hes like the undisputed worse character for PF. I heard you say it doesnt matter because you can clear it anyway but by that logic hos performance in as and moc doesnt really matter because other character can just clear those with full rewards. It just make no sense tbh.
This tier list is BASED btw.
Overall, I can understand all your choices except Boothill? Can you please clarify how Boothill is in SSS in the comments or in a video? I can see SSS in AS and MOC, but I don't see SSS in PF. You didn't expand on how he is SSS in PF. I watched the video and watched Wyatt's video (the one provided in the clip), but it seems you all focus on his ability in MOC and AS. Please explain how he is SSS in PF because I don't see it.
Least cope fireflop main
Boothill doesn't need Ruan mei or harmony mc to function. Just more SPD and break effect and some SPD tuning. Boothill relics aren't tied to a specific set , anything works . He only needs Talia for the planetary set . Blud can use any 4 star support and he works.
@@Thivesh_ I understand what ur saying and I love characters being flexable but talking from meta perspective there is only 1 team for all dps, so all characters are tied to their specific teams. To me flexability is more about future proofing alowing them to use the newer powercrept units easier helping keep the characters longevitiy... more than an actual reason in saying they're good.
First thing its that it is my (and Wyatts) opinion. MoC and AS are the defacto hardest content in the game and PF is the 3rd hardest content in the game. BH being so broken in MOC and AS, and by broken I mean he gives you free clears on one side of each mode with very little investment, outweighs his PF performance (hes not as abysmal in PF as people nake him out to be). I see where FF and Acheron can be better but BH does it so easily that to me it justifies him being higher. Let me know if you have any more questions!
@@iSUMMONYT FF is just as broken in AS and MOC and shes a lot better than boothill in Pf so on that alone shouldnt firefly be on the same level if not higher
Gallagher put in the middle seems wrong.
Any dps with break and speed can replace dps gallagher easily.
Gallagher is used because he heals and he is fire.
If the context is DPS, gallagher definitely not in the mid tier dps.
If u actually read his kit dumb ass he buffs break dmg when his bessoted state is active
i agree with everything but clara, I think shes atleast A tier, Im glad somebody agrees with my takes on Jingliu and Firefly
Its just the truth!
@@iSUMMONYT I just think Clara's counters are too powerful to be downplayed, Even if they are reliant. There are ways to manipulate the turn order of the game and make enemies go more often and her counters are like payback nukes
My Firefly clears moc in 1 cycle with ease and an average build, boothill also clears in around the same amount of cycles and they’re both also two of the best units in apoc but firefly is still useable in pure fiction unlike boothill since she enables himeko to be more versatile and triggers her fua more often so overall firefly should be sss since she’s more universal but still performs insanely well also boothill can’t grow much either since he’s also a break dps so i don’t know why you make that argument against firefly but not him
I think boothill's placement was to bait all of us to comment to boost RUclips algorithm. Baited and nicely done 😂
Ayee what do you think youre doing revealing industry secrets 🤣🤣
jokes aside I do believe he is SSS, I stand by that. The real "bait" was putting FF and Acheron a tier below.
As an E2S1 acheron and E2S1 FF owner, the tier placement doesn't bother me at all. As long as I can have fun with my favorite characters and clear content at the same time, it's all good for me
I got Jade for the speed improvement, with it my Hyper carry can play more turns, I ended up loving the possibility of clearing the entire field at once, saving me from being attacked hehehe
Lol best Defense is better Offense 💪
I dont get why people keep saying sparkle erases SP issues. She's less SP positive then typical supports as long as u use her skill every turn unless ur doing a 2 turn ulti then sure she has more SP generation than 2 per 3 turns. While i do say inibitor is above jingliu you rated him higher saying his teams hes wanted in solves his SP issues but at the same time didn't rate jingliu on having less SP consumption so you can run more SP heavy support.
We're human, always going to be some bias in there... and for me it should be a change to claras placement. If you're wasting her ulti charges perhaps using attack rope? Not using tingyun? Maximise the damage per charge instead of getting charges faster. What i espcially like about clara is the counter attack, in pure fiction when enemies die and new enemies enter they take their turns immedately and clara... soon yunli are the only 2 where enemies taking a turn is basically the same as giving themselves extra turns. This and how limited FUA is for F2P. Outside of clara you have what Xueyi? and QQ eidolons as the only real sources of FUA... soon new march 7th but all of them are not true FUA attackers so anytime an event comes around with FUA i dust off my Clara to carry me. In a previous pure fiction E2 acheron with 270% unbuffed crit dmg couldnt get me the 3* but E1 Clara easily got me the full clear.
I'm also a little bias on firefly. 100% agree that because break is your only source of damage you hit dimishing return and you hit it HARD... but fireflys base toughness being inheritly 50% higher and then self buffing efficiency and speed with her getting an extra turn when she ultis... even though 75%~ of her damage being tied to the main character it's going to be extremely hard for them to give us a better enabler than firefly but this is a DPS tierlist.. not how well they synergize so the SS is perfectly resonable.
As far as Sparkle she is always +1 SP cause she only needs 3 SP to generate 4. But yeah ofc this list has bias in it 100% but the placements were not dug up out of nowhere, there are legitimate arguments to be had in all of these "hot takes".
Eitherway thatnk you for the comme t was a good read and good rationalization of your points! 💪
@@iSUMMONYT Yea im with you as well. As long as it's explain even if i disagree i do learn something from it which is were we all win. Out of the 3 game modes pure fiction was actually the hardest for me to adjust to until i leveled up Herta, Heimiko and Clara.
All in all opinions wont differ much i think the video needed to scream into peoples ears it's not including team synergy. After watching the video i was like theres robin.. where's ruan mei? Only after i realised its just dps and subconciously looking for support cause robin was there lol
you are forgetting sparkles technic thx to it she is most positive sp harmony in the game.
Sparkle statistically is the most SP positive character in the game. If speedtuned correclty, Sometimes she can even basic for even more SP, Her technique recovers 3 SP and talent increases the SP cap by 2 (a total of 5 sp) And has a 3 turn ult with a ER rope. (Assuming she is speed tuned correctly) she can take 3 turns a cycle (And before u say its unreasonable literally just throw ur highest SPD stuff on her) And she can basic once and uses Skill twice, and her ult is +4 SP (some lightcones giving 5) that means you can generate 3 sp per cycle with ult (+4 ult, +1 basic, -2 skill =3) and her talent and technique giving her 5, That means she can very comfortably generate 8 SP on the first cycle, and 3 every other cycle. Along with a SP friendly sustain who on average takes 2 turns a cycle, That means that Sparkles average team generates 10 SP on the first cycle and 5 every other cycle for your dps and other support to use (Bonus SP if the other support also generates alot of SP)
Sparkle generates 8 SP on the first cycle and 3 every other cycle, Along with the average SP positive sustain, Its 10 SP on the first cycle and 5 every other cycle. If u want math or proof read my other reply. So technically she does erase SP issues or most SP issues
As a Boothill main i do believe we should put him in SS and put Acheron in SSS i agree while he his super versatile and can still do big numbers with 3* or no lc his pf performance is rather poor even tho he does extremely well in 2/3 modes Acheron is still decent in pf and she is somewhat versatile as well while still being able to clear MOC and AS
Thats a fair take. I wouldnt argue against that
@@iSUMMONYT Thank you but if it were just MOC and AS only then I wouldn't argue
at the end of the day, ss tier and sss tier are all pretty close and debatable
As a whale who has every character built, this tierlist is so wrong. i dont even know where to begin
Funny enough we talked to 2 whales that have every character at E6S5 before we put this out and they agreed with us (give or take a few placements). I guess people have diff experiences... crazy
Alright, I don't agree with this tier list, but I'm not gonna talk about Acheron/Boothill/Firefly because there's a lot of nuanced discussion to be had around these characters, and they're in the top 3 spots so I'm fine with that. (Boothill actually murders the crap out of DoT Pure Fiction btw with the DoT transfer buff, which I didn't hear anyone mention yet.)
Luka in A and Sushang in C??? I don't understand the Luka glazing when he is incapable of 0 cycling nowadays without Kafka. And even that can be a bit sketch.
You don't build Sushang on Break Effect either; you build her Crit, and with the advent of supports like Ruan Mei and Robin, her multiple attacks and Crit-oriented playstyle that thrives on Breaks (SP neutral at E1!), she absolutely shreds Physical weak bosses like Argenti. She's very much like Xueyi (though slightly weaker), but instead of being tied to Quantum weak, she's tied to Physical weak. Sushang is definitely better than Luka simply due to her being a frequent attacking Crit DPS, especially at E6 where she outspeeds freaking Seele.
Yanqing should be bottom of the list next to Arlan. He overcaps on Crit Rate buffs, getting 20-80% Crit Rate, with the upper end being tied to a 140 cost Ultimate. His buffs are less consistent than YUKONG'S, and we all know that Yukong is the absolute queen of consistent buffs (NOT). What's more, in addition to the RNG of not wanting to get hit, his follow-up attacks, which are crucial to his rotations, are fixed 60% RNG, and if you're bringing down QQ a tier you better darn well bring Yanqing down too. But the worst offender? He has to Skill EVERY TURN to maintain Soulsteel Sync, which means that he's extremely SP hungry. At least Arlan is SP efficient.
Like you said with Jingliu, the extra stats he gets do nothing for his kit. It's no longer 1.0, and with his self buffs being mediocre at best he's left with glaring weaknesses, and forced to use Aventurine for non-0 cycle comps, Gepard isn't enough. I have my Gepard at E1 S1, 3.8k DEF, 134 SPD with his sig LC and he still can't keep Yanqing alive this MoC. Oh, and good luck 0 cycling with the SP hungriest character in the game who gets disabled from the slightest bit of damage. I'm sure Sparkle will help him with those problems when he self-buffs his SPD and oversaturates his Crit DMG.
Wind Dan Heng smacks the heck out of Yanqing in endgame content because he doesn't have these weaknesses, and even has a reset on his E4. Heck, even Hook is better for her occasional sustain and Blast attacks. Welt is better too because he actually helps keep the team alive with his AoE Ult and has ATK scalings that outclass Seele's. GET MY MAN YANQING DOWN TO THE BOTTOM TIER
Ratio being 2 tiers below DHIL is absolutely preposterous. They are very similar in endgame performance. Ratio has the highest ST damage in the game, which DHIL can't make up for with his Blast attacks in MoC. He also synergizes better with both 4* supports like Pela, Gui, and Tingyun, as well as 5* like Robin, Topaz, Aventurine, and heck even Black Swan, making his floor and ceiling outscale DHIL's even when we don't consider his higher base scalings. Both have absurdly high Break values which puts them very close to each other in Apocalyptic Shadow, and well they both suck at Pure Fiction. They are two sides of the same coin, especially at E0. Either move Ratio up or bring DHIL down, they are way closer in power level.
As for Kafka/Black Swan, sure they're SS tier together but individually they're pretty mediocre at damage dealing, Swan especially. Maybe A tier for Kafka and B tier for Swan at absolute best. Swan can act as a surprisingly good support for Acheron and Ratio, but strictly as a DPS, she needs needs NEEDS Kafka as Kafka literally doubles her damage and then some. Her only DPS niche is specifically in DoT Pure Fiction, which she does excel at solo, but having one great, specific niche in ONE gamemode and dogwater performance in the other two does not an S tier unit make. Kafka also loses a massive nuke without Swan, so yeah there's that.
Honestly the rest of the tier list is fine imo, but these four rating decisions are absolutely egregious.
I see your points but I disagree on the BS part. Ive 1 cycled with just BS on MOC her individual dmg is really good whe shes well built.
The Sushang thing idk Break Luka goes crazy which is something you cant say to the same extent for Sushang.
DHIL vs Ratio - imo Ratio needs too much when compared to DHIL. In my expwrience clearing with DHIL, pre Sparkle all I needed was Tingyun, Pela and FuXuan and I was able to clear easily. All DHIL neess is to have SP available. Ratio needs SP, debuffs and not just the enemy to be debuffed but they need to be stacked up to 5 for max dmg, high crit ratio. For from a F2P perspective its a lot to maximize.
@@iSUMMONYT Was the MoC cycle MoC 12 with E0 S0 on a non-DoT Trotter MoC? Because I was able to 0 cycle MoC 12 Sam with Pela + Acheron + Black Swan + Sparkle on the Trotter DoT MoC thanks to Black Swan's damage output. I just don't see how Black Swan's damage can be that high without her signature. Sure, she can technically have her DoTs retriggered by Gui and E4 Sampo, but I don't think 0 cycling with her is possible, which I think is the minimum requirement for an S tier ranked DPS.
There are videos of people 0 cycling MoC 12 Argenti with Sushang Crit hypercarry and E0 S1 supports. I don't think Luka is capable of the same thing right now. And even if he was, that would just put him on par with Sushang.
Also Ratio just needs Pela for the debuffs, she alone provides enough. E4 Pela Skill + Ult + Pearls + Ratio Eff Res Down is 4 debuffs. Include Ratio's and Pela's Techniques, and Weakness Break, as well as enemy debuffs, and you can easily maintain 3-5 debuffs on any enemy for Ratio to wallop. I was able to 0 cycle MoC 12 Kafka with just E1 S0 Ruan Mei, E6 Pela, E0 S0 Robin, and rainbow gear (so E1 could have been mitigated with 4 pc Quantum/Diver, better gear, and/or Eagle set on my Pela), so I'm not sure what you mean by "he needs too much compared to DHIL". Too much thinking, maybe, but too much investment no.
Also to add to the previous point, E0 S0 Ratio is able to 0 cycle Past Present Future, which heavily favors AoE, with E6 Gallagher, Tingyun, and E1 Robin, with the help of no signature LCs. ruclips.net/video/exvqxwrlvGA/видео.html&pp=ygURaHNyIHJhdGlvIDAgY3ljbGU%3D
He was also able to 0 cycle Argenti last cycle despite him not being Imaginary weak, with E0 Robin, E6 Tingyun, and E6 Pela. No signatures on anyone. ruclips.net/video/Byf-h4KFPlM/видео.html&ab_channel=Ricci
I am not trying to say that Ratio is better than DHIL, but rather that they are closer in power level to each other.
@@iSUMMONYT Also wait, Ratio is actually more F2P friendly in terms of attaining a high Crit ratio. With S5 Cruising, his traces + talents, and a Crit Rate body, plus 4 pc Diver and Salsotto, you can achieve 96.4% Crit Rate in battle with ZERO substats, making it ridiculously easy for him to achieve 100% Crit Rate. Compare that to DHIL, who needs his signature LC for any additional Crit Rate, and who with S5 Aeon and Rutilant only has 57.4% Crit Rate with zero substats. Which is easier to maximize from an F2P perspective?
As for their other self-buffs, by averaging DHIL's hits and damage distribution, he gets 17.1% Crit DMG (26.4% if using Ult on same turn), plus another 24% against Imaginary Weak, and 27% DMG (45% on Ult turn). Ratio gets a 25% Crit DMG buff and his 30-50% DMG increase. In other words, Ratio's self-buffs here match or beat out DHIL's too, with DHIL only pulling slightly ahead on Imaginary Weak AND on turns where he is using his Ult.
Stacking debuffs is also not that difficult if you use Pela, as she enables 3 debuffs by herself (Skill + Ult + Pearls), along with all the less consistent but still impactful debuff sources (Ratio's Technique, Pela's Technique, Weakness Breaks, enemy self-debuffs). And that's only with Ratio + Pela. Sure, if you want to use Ratio + Topaz + Robin you might find yourself hard pressed to get that 100% FuA chance, but that team while technically optimal is the antithesis of a "F2P perspective" compared to Ratio + Pela + Tingyun for instance.
I got argenti e0s1, but him being in S tier is crazy
Why is it crazy? What other character below S tier can put up 500K dmg E0S0?
lmao hell nah, boothill biased is too real to think he's that high
listen to what they said again
Not Firefly defenders who have never even used Boothill once in their life being all shocked and offended at his performance
@@The_CodFish69 No it isn't lol, stop coping. Go build your Boothill and then come back.
@@The_CodFish69 Google it
@@SM-oc4rc I've got both and can confirm Boothill is bootycheeks in PF. In what world do you think he's not terrible there?
@@SM-oc4rcthis is based on all 3 mate they are evenly matched in the first 2 game modes but ff way better for pf meaning she better overall but in other game mode boothill is better not hard to understand
Conclusion overall ff better boothill better for moc and aploytic shadow
@@The_CodFish69mate so true the only hunt clear pf was a seele getting hard carried she is the only one
That DHIL placement is kinda wild ngl. E0 DHIL isn't that great and is definitely not 2 tiers above ratio. I think the placement is biased towards both of them having E2, which is a different unit at that point.
Dhil is better than Jin Liu by far
Facts! 🔥
@@iSUMMONYTis jingliu still reliable though?
@@kagebunshin1731 yes
We need more colab videos like this
We're going to work on it! 💪
HAHAHA I love the ending. I think E0S1 would move Jingliu, Seele, JY, Blade, Topaz, and Aventurine up a tier. And swaps Acheron with Boothill
S1 would completely change this list for sure and E2 would change it even more.
Bait used to be believable
What was the bait?
@@iSUMMONYTthe placement of many characters, I don’t know if it’s actually on purpose but some are pretty ridiculous if I have to be honest and also your placement varies depending on every character and it’s never the same, if someone asks why you put boothill in SSS it’s because he claps AS and MoC so no need to PF sure but then you put two characters who are basically only PF (Argenti and jade, mostly jade) in S, while ratio is basically a somewhat weaker boothill but he’s still pretty underrated there, misha stronger than jingliu, idk how
Jing yuan lower than serval…? If we’re gonna give Argenti the possibility of being super buffed with sparkle & company then JY should get it too (Argenti is also very slow to ult without tingyun) and he becomes both a single target and aoe monster when you can ensure he’s not crowd controlled and he’s buffed by sparkle, Luka and sushang difference is also questionable and HTB is definitely too low
I don't really have many opinions on E0S0 DPS. I have E0S0 Dr. Ratio I guess, and I never use him because my E1S1 DPSes do better than him off element. My advice is honestly just to not use E0S0 DPS, lol. A tierlist orbiting E0S0 DPS just is meh to me since I think even if you are F2P, so long as you aren't new, you should strongly consider S1 for your limited DPS, and E1 for some of your supports, like for Ruan Mei and Robin, etc.
I can say that as an E1S1 Jingliu haver, I've 0 cycled MoC 12 with her without too much trouble, just her best teams these days are kind of greedy on the supports they want. I can get full reward clears on Jingliu in Apoc without any trouble as well. Even in PF, she can pair with Herta in ice weak stages that have a lot of elites and do really good. So, for me, I don't really experience what is being talked about, but perhaps the E1S1 plays a part in that? My Jingliu does have 350 CV outside of battle as well in a non-rainbow set, so that matters too probably, but all my DPS I use tend to have solid relics these days so it's whatever.
I think putting BootHill at SSS when he is pretty bad in PF is a bit bias. It's not like Hunts can't do any good in PF either, as we do see units like Seele do solid in it, and even Dr. Ratio and Topaz is pretty usable in a FUA oriented buff for PF at least. Unless we got like some sort of 100% advance on break PF buff, I just don't really see Boothill ever being good in PF. Regardless of how you feel about PF, it is still one of the three end game modes, so just ignoring it in rankings for Boothill is a bit questionable to me, but whatever.
For me, who uses units at E1 and S1 typically, I'd make these adjustments...
The characters that do great in MoC, great in Apoc, and great in PF in the right teams, are Acheron and FF, so I would put them in SSS personally. Acheron is only that good in PF with a good DoT team, but I think it's valid to consider units on their ideal teams for things. DoTeron has always been a crazy performing PF team for me, and honestly tackles MoC and Apoc very well too. But, Acheron also can utilized hyper setups, so she's very versatile and a great 0 cycler for MoC 12 due to that as well. I used her to 0 cycle MoC 12 Node 2 this time around using a double Harmony 1 nihility setup despite her not being E2 with no issues on the damage what so ever. And, yeah, FF has been crushing all the modes. The FF + Himeko team is superb, great at even 0 cycling PF. Maybe her apoc ceiling isn't as high as some others due to not being able to break more than 3 units at a time quickly, but I still managed to get a 385x+ clear on her despite that which is far above the threshold for a good clear there, so, yeah... Her only weakness I guess is enemies that can't be broken, but I doubt we will ever be in a situation where both sides of an end game mode has enemies like that, so you can just pin her against the one that doesn't. So, I'm not too bothered about that at this point.
I'd move Jingliu upto SS for my experience with her, as I said before, she does have setups where she can thrive in all three modes, just not at the level of FF and Acheron. For ice weak PF stages, her + Herta is a legitimate strat since it's been very common lately to include a lot of elites.
I'd also put Kafka and Black Swan in SS as well, as I also can just thrive in all end game content with both, quite handedly. DoTeron is a great team with them of course, but just double support also performs very well too. I wouldn't put them on the same level of Acheron and FF at this time though. They aren't quite there, but still really solid just like Jingliu.
I just wanna say I always look forward to your comments. Its always a good read.
I agree. The reason we did E0S0 is because thats more likely to be the case for the most amount of people. But yeah I do agree that of the character is meant to be your main DPS, investing in S1 is recommended for sure.
Also Jingliu at E1S1 is another chara ter the dmg goes through the roof but we do talk about that. You need to keep improving your Jingliu with Eidolons or Better relics to keep up now a days
e0s0 Jing liu compared to an e1s1 is night and day which is partly why she is rated low on this tier list. it is 'f2p' considering no eidelons are sig LC. This is because Jing liu basically requires her signature LC to remain competitive compared to dps who outperform her with f2p options.
Great explanations on all the placements, very useful tierlist 🙏
Glad you think so!
Boothill on top!!
He's the goat
I usually like your content and takes, but this tear list is rough. Honestly surprised. 💀
I warned yall on the tittle lol
Please more collaboration with Wyatt. He is a great content creator and you are great with numbers!!!
Yes we plan to make this a reocurring thing as new dps come out we will discuss amd update tje tier list! Thank you!
10:12 LET’S GOOO ❤🎉
Danny Boi is still a beast
@@iSUMMONYT Absolutely!! His multiplier is just so well rounded, whoever (buffer) you pair him with, he can benefit from. And with stronger and stronger harmony characters being released, his DPS output is increasing drastically comparing to some of the other characters who already has initial stat benefits. BEAST ALL THE WAY!!
People who are crying about PF must realize while yes it’s considered in the list it’s by far the easiest mode like just slap on a herta/himeko/black swan with anyone and they will clear PF lol
See, this is why I make these videos. You see the light my friend. People tripping over PF just havent built Himeko or Herta and thinks its hard because of it. Straight facts🔥
@@iSUMMONYTi mean I agree with you.
But in that case, Jade/Argenti should not be nowhere near as high.
You put them above Ratio.
This makes me think you valued each gamemode semi equally.
really curious how that one firefly main be acting like after that boothill video dropped cause all these firefly showcases have her best team at e2 minimum with her best and only team
Wtf u on u can use hunt march to fill in for ruin mai now wants linghsa out u can use her aswell that point invalid
@@alexandercornelius8368 lingsha she breaks horrendously, hunt march for ruan mei??? thats a bad point one is a buffer one is a sub dps. plus she takes forever to break the enemy without gallager and this is dps only without ruan mei and gallager, shes literally nothing
@@alexandercornelius8368 plus without those 2, she takes forever to break the enemy so yea you can but its so much of a pain and this is dps not sub dps and support battle. Boothill lacks supports and even a good break healer, she has everything you need and her bis is slightly better than boothill.
@@angelixaroxe2986 u clearly don't know its not only break efficency that determines how fast ur attack but how often which she does from her bunny
@@angelixaroxe2986 nah if u make ur shifu gallagher march toughness reduction is stupidly high u can use march and asta to clear and I am saying ppl will have more options as they can decide lingsha or gallagher honestly not hard to work out
Overall one of the best tier list in my opinion, but i would disagree with Boothill being that high, bcs this is tier list for all three end game mode he is a beast in MOC and AS, but fell off in PF. While Acheron is great in all three but but not as great as Boothill in AS. While FF does pretty good in all three game mode.
Imo a character that gives you fast, reliable clears on the 2 hardest modes in the game with little to no investment cant go anywhere else. But I see what youre saying and youre not wrong by having that opinion.
@@iSUMMONYT fair enough, but you can also make that argument on Firefly right?
@@iSUMMONYTyou do realize most people struggle with pure fiction and not the other two modes
@@The_CodFish69 Can't accept it? Midfly Glazer.
@@The_CodFish69 IN MOC she is T0 But in AS no. The current AS has Super break Buff That's why your MIdlfly LOOKS OP. Lol.
Should probably stick to theorycrafting instead of making tier lists ngl. Love your videos though.
Na these are fun and I stand by my opinion. Appreciate the support tho 💪
Nope this tier list is based
Boothill!!! My boy!!!!!
BootHill is the tough sell on the list, everything else is ok, BootHill is good but single target holds him back from aoe friendly content. I say this as someone who likes the character and how American he is.
E0S0 Acheron just doesn't do it for me her stacking mechanic is too bad I'm running silver wolf, pela and fu xuan with the LC that gives debuffs sometimes it takes me two cycles to get her 10 stack ultimate
OMG MY 2 FAVS COLLABED??? 😭😭😭 LITERALLY SCREAMING RN OMFG I'LL ENJOY THIS VID I JUST KNOW IT
Ayee im glad you liked this format! We intend to keep this up! Thank you for supporting us🙏
@iSUMMONYT can't wait to see more vids from u both!! 🤍
Boothill above firefly and Acheron is criminal. Also Acheron without her lightcone is worse than firefly with fall of an eon.
I can see where youre coming from. I just think that BH makes MOC and AS soo braindead easy that I can easily place him higher than FF and Acheron. Contrary to what people may think BH is not married to RM or HMC, nor he needs specific teammates to unlock his DMG. You can just buff him up with whatever you have and hes putting out 300k at least.
@@iSUMMONYTfirefly does that too and if u remove ruam mei for asta in a firefly team it still does 340k and know she attack like 3 to 4 times per cycle. and about the teammates galagher is a 4 star hes easy to get hmc is free and if u dont have rm use asta yeah u lose some damage but i cleared mo 12 the follow up one for yunli with ff, asta, hmc and gallagher in 3 clycles thats 7 cycles for the other side dont tell me that with a f2p setup boothill can do it faster remebter boothill need to ramp up his stack before he cooks
Yeah boothill can actually lmao , he is one of the fastest cyclers @akinkunmiakoni5784
@@akinkunmiakoni5784don't forget that the boss you fought with FF was past present and Eternal which is catered towards firefly the cc himself even said that he reached 700k dmg with firefly fighting that boss
2 of the coolest hsr youtubers made a based collab 😮
We try! Thank you for watching more vids like these coming!
this is great finally a reason to build my misha e6 anyways keep the collabs going and id like to see a "team tier list" next if possible or at least a support tier list
Yeah we plan on continuing this, it was fun to make for sure.
I’m scrolling through the comments to see the Firefly stans bow down to the King Boothill 😈
🤣🤣🤣🤣 its getting wild in these comments
Great insight! Please note that this is pve you can clear content with anyone you like, I have kingyuan with his sig and I've been clearing great with sparkle and tingyun. There's always way around things as long as you understand the mechanic but this guide is more for ease of access and building.
I have collected most of the characters except adventurine and boothill over two accounts in HSR, it's been an amazing run with kingyuan since 1.0
Yeah this was a fun video to make its not for peopke to get so but hurt about it. Appreciate you being rational and taking things for what they are 💪
Why is there a kid always crying about firefly in every reply 🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤷♂️ theres a word for that I think...
brainless waifu simps malding over pixels
I was onboard until Boothill.
Hear me out for a sec tho.....
I definitely see his value, but I feel like his ST status is what's preventing him from being SSS.
@@karimallam5298 he can literally one shot so it does not rlly matter
bullshit tierlist lmao
Like your parents give birth to you.
After watching the whole thing I think I’ve found the reason for some of the gripes I have with this list
The list is based on a F2p/normal investment setting but some of the criteria/techs used to rate some of the units especially the unconventional ones are not F2p in nature at all and cannot be easily reached at this current time in the game
Explain. The most unconventional one (BH) is the most F2P one in the whole list so are you talking about some of the others?
@@iSUMMONYT the groundwork required for characters like Himeko(disregarding choir), Jade, serval, luka, Robin to be ranked over some of the 5star dpses on A&B and Misha>Jingliu isn’t something you’d find on accounts rocking E0S0 and even then I feel the applications aren’t as universal as the 5 stars.
Regarding boothill, it’s a tricky one, are we ranking based on No sustains? Flexibility or just F2p nature. Because imo if it’s just the F2p nature he’s in line with the other two as SS. If it’s regarding no sustain runs then we circle back to the conundrum of “does an account rocking E0S0 investments have the available resources to meet that level?”
BH is literally the most f2p friendly dps in the game
@@HSRMOC context is, his F2p performance,is it really a tier above the other two for an actual F2p
For example look at the latest video from Wyatt(great video btw), but how many f2ps are gonna have a 175 boothill s5 DDDs and high speed eagle set to meet the performance shown in those clips
You get me?
@@sev559 Stats are one thing, an f2p could very well have 175 speed and they could not, which depends on how much you want to invest. the problem is a lot of the dps under him require signature light cones to reach their peak low-investment e0 level. boothill kinda just ignores LC and doesn't require a specific team unlike dhil, firefly. BH can also just be thrown in a lot of teams and still work. thats one of the reasons he is good, run him with an aoe unit and he still pops off, there is little drop in his personal damage. I think there can be an argument for acheron being in the same tier as BH. but at best I think Boothill being in SS tier with the other dps is the most realistic compromise. If this really is ranking based on all game modes I dont think there is a clear SSS tier dps. theyre probably all 4 in SS tier.
garbage tier list honestly
Sadge
ikr
Thanks for this! I'm still struggling with Pure Fiction because I still don't have Himeko or DoT teamcomp and I didn't get Jade. Judging by your tierlist that takes PF into account, I will pull for Boothill in the next rerun 😊
Youre not going to be disappointed. I got something for yall that sleep on my boy BH PF capabilities.