Nah dude, obviously when Yukari says that she hopes that no one will hear her scream is because you're about to watch Markiplier play FNAF. It's a little hard to get that easter egg, but don't worry I got you
Another reason Persona in college wouldn't work is that the subjects you study are far more specific than the general education you get in high school. So either they'd need to bend over backward to be as vague as possible with the class questions, or alienate all the players who can't relate to a protag who decided to major in anthropology.
Coming in a year late, but the majority of colleges still require you to take general courses. Perhaps that’s just an American thing, but knowing how lacking the US is in education, I doubt it
Basically, as long as at least the protagonist was a freshman, it'd be indistinguishable from High School. Pretty uncommon to even get started on your major in the first year, and even if you do, likely not in the first semester. ...Could even pick a major in gameplay midway through the year like picking extracurriculars in P3 and P4. (If anything, the Japanese high school level questions asked in the Person games are above the majority of American high school experiences already, and people from their that know any of the answers just came across those subjects after graduating/outside of classwork.)
I want the persona 6 velvet room to be a jazz bar where persona fusion is the bartender mixing drinks, playing the piano in the lobby not only changes the in game bgm but also applies different boons and bonuses, playing things like darts or other bar games increases persona of certain arcana. And since bars are social places, have "phantoms" of potential social links show up as customers since the velvet room has always been a place in between mind and matter. That way it ties back into those random points in the game where the mc dreams about a social link giving you bonus points towards them along with the idea that other people have been to the velvet room before.
My favorite thing about the Persona series has to be the little moments of friendship that you see. Every game leaves me saying, "I love these characters" I hope they never lose that.
@@deatheater6222i played kh 3 the ds games and dream drop distance for the 3ds and the mobile game but only the dark road and i just watched one video about the lore before going in and i understand id easily so i dont think you have to play the games since many people explain it so good that even if you didn't play the games you can understand it but playing the games may be the best way to learn it
@kiryukazuma6222 It's convoluted because you have to play every single game - including spinoffs - to understand it, and it has to keep including new twists in order to actually have an excuse to continue the story whenever a new game comes out
yah he wasn't really meant to be this super cool dude. But rather just a dad and a cop that's trying to balance the idea of when his orders go against justice. HE JOINED AND GOT A PERSONA BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SAVE HIS KID
Zenkichi's awaking is honestly one of my favorites, mainly because it's his literal shadow talking to him and not just a disembodied voice, and I hope they do that more in the future
That Kasumi take hit me like Tyson’s uppercut. I would love for you to make a separate video on that! A MASSIVE amount of the fandom absolutely loves her (me included, I think I have very solid points as well let me know if anyone would like to hear!) and am super interested in the thoughts of someone who wasn’t really a fan of hers. I would especially love for you to elaborate on your comment that said “she feels forced” when I feel like she was integrated perfectly. Happy new year Johne!
"she feels forced" i mean, she was literally created and inserted in an already established story. she exists to simp joker from the onset with little to no buildup. no reason to support and like him as strongly as she did from their first meeting. regardless of their quality, persona does make an effort to create characters with strong personalities that don't rely on joker. can't really say that about kasumi.
@@giargue 1. I like her relationship with Joker, i feel like she is the only character in the game that feels like a “normal” friend due the fact that she and Joker were not brought together by supernatural/abnormal events unlike the rest of the party members and her interactions with Joker are not restricted to confidant events like most of the non-party members confidants. They have a lot of one-on-one interactions both inside and outside of her confidant, and their interactions include a good mix of spending time together doing more casual stuff like normal teenagers and more serious moments like Joker providing necessary emotional support to her. In general I think she and Joker have a good dynamic that makes them work really well as friends or more than friends. 2. I like how her story was framed to look simple at a first glance but once you learn the thruth about her a lot of her scenes in the base game are recontextualized. For example, there are several instances during the first half of her confidant that were showcasing how the “Kasumi” persona and the “Sumire” persona clashed and contradicted each other, other things like her “slump” and her “awakening” also obtain a different meaning in retrospect. 3. I like how her story fits the themes in Royal, she starts the story as a person that doesn't have the strength to face the harsh reality and is granted the thing she thought she wanted, but as a consequence of that she becomes stagnant and isn't able to reach the results she wished for and was never going to do so because she had become ignorant to her problems, is not until she decides to face reality, even is it means carrying with the fact her sister died because of her that she starts to growth as person and gets on the right path to achieve her dream. Her story shows why change is not done by your own will is meaningless. 4. And in general she has the things I want in a character, she has motivations, she has legitimate flaws as a person, she has struggles that she needs to overcome and she has character growth, overall her character and her story resonated strongly with me.
@@topasu9454 read my reply to the comment below you and see if you can agree. I get the “forced” aspect but Royal was literally adding another story onto a already completed story. And the new story would obviously have new characters, and I actually think they did a great job on her development. Saying that people don’t rely on joker really isn’t true because he is literally the pillar of the thieves, and everyone’s rock. Not trying to be disrespectful just debating.
@@planet_macee I just want to add on how much I love her arc of struggling with identity, too, and how even after 'overcoming' it, she is still cripplingly dependent on other people. I like how we get to see her growth from being dependent on the identity of Kasumi and Maruki's teachings, to being dependent on you, the protagonist, as a way to explore her true self. It fits so well how so many of Joker's friends trust him so deeply as an emotional anchor, and I found it loveable how Sumire feels conflicted about her reliance on youin the end, but decides she doesn't mind, because unlike Maruki and her memory of Kasumi, you aren't controlling her or trying to change her for 'her benefit', you're simply supporting her in figuring out who she wants to be.
SO GLAD TO SEE AI EBIHARA APPRECIATION. She's one of my favs from P4 as well, her Social Link was super interesting to me, towards the end she became a genuinely good friend towards Yu and honestly it was kinda cool to see a romance route that ends in a break-up and them staying friends.
I think we should get another college persona game but it doesn’t always need to be college. Same way it shouldn’t always be high school, it just starts to get old. There are plenty of stories that can be told through the lens of college students who may be starting to find life hopeless or ‘over’ because they aren’t kids anymore. It’d be super cool if there was a persona game showing that no matter what you can always have something to look forward to in the future. I’m honestly surprised they haven’t done that given how in Japan especially they see it like your life ends after high school LMAO
Persona 2 eternal punishment with thier mostly adult cast and i like how them being adults are connected to the themes of the story If you want to know then go watch the persona compendium vedio
Another detail about Milady's design is that the reason she doesn't have a head is because her character Milady de Winter was actually beheaded! I find it really cool they decided to incorporate that element into her design, I don't think it would really be the same without it.
About Kasumi : I think that her being presented as "perfect" is intentional because that's how Sumire saw her sister. The social link still sucks but it's like Price and Price Another Version : the first sucked so the second one could be great
people who want a college-centerd persona definetly just want it for the sake of relating to the characters more trough age, and not feeling weird about dating high school students even if they're fictional characters. They don't want college-characters because they think it'd actually be better for the franchise, but just for themselves
Yeah I agree, especially with the dating thing since there's a lot of people who complain about some of Joker's dating options being "problematic" because they're too old or having issues with the dating in general because they're young students. And that kinda gets annoying
For me it's more that I'm tired of every setting set in school. Maybe because I seen so much high school centric anime growing up. Now does it have to be college no, I'm fine with it being highschool but man when Catherine came out it felt really refreshing. It just felt so different and I'd like if they shaked it up abit but I think that's what metaphor is for(their new game)
@@samsclubhouseQuiet and reserved in real life but turns cocky and light hearted in the Metaverse? He's literally Persona's Spider-Man. And Narukami is the worst example of a Persona MC you could go with. He is the definition of 'Mr. Perfect'. There's nothing interesting there
@@connorharnage6697 in the anime he was mellow dramatic, and somewhat whimsy. People just say that was his personality Probably relating to the themes in how he does what he wants without restraint so he has nothing to hide
My favorite thing about persona or SMT series as a whole is that they take folklore from everywhere like irish,greek,Japanese, Chinese, American, or even pop culture. I love the attention of detail some designs are better then others but i love they always ta have accurate lore in there info bios
I’m not sure if that’s an argument for or against that kinda thing - while Vincent definitely has a better defined personality than the silent MCs he is harder to relate to, so I suppose it depends on what the game is going for…
I mean personally IMO I don't mind having protags not being voiced or have minimal dialogue. I guess to some people they would like them to be voiced others not so much. I really don't care. Plus reading text sounds like a them/first world problem since you have to read text even if you're not playing a story focus/rpg.
@Arcticanine There were times in P5 where I remember thinking this probably would've been better if the line you picked was voiced instead of Joker just taking a step forward or whatever. I'm glad they atleast voiced the "Pillage him Satanael" part
I believe that if they're gonna make Persona 6, they should write the character development for the party members similar to Persona 3, where the character's growth is tied to the story rather than their social link. P4 & P5's party members don't experience the same growth that the P3 crew have; You can tell the difference between Junpei's development vs Yosuke's or Ryuji's development throughout their respective stories. inb4 this is a cold take lol.
I agree! My favorite ensemble cast is still P3 because they feel much more rooted in their story and dynamics! Even if I have no real criticism towards the writing in P4 or P5 cast-wise (I mean I do but that’s mostly nitpicking, not real qualms) I like the P3 cast better.
I personally like the P4 and P5 way more then P3, because here the player themselves are responsible for the change in the party. They get to experience it by their own volition and feel responsible for bringing about a change. It's just feels better imo, the feeling of spending time with your teammates and seeing them appreciated you doing so and changing a bit as a result. That's my opinion anyway.
@@Arcticanine To me that feels like they arent people at all. WHich they arent but that is beside the point. In P3 they develop independantly from you and not because of you like a puppet
@@Arcticanine That's a nice way of thinking it, Personally though I feel like that takes away the 'people' aspect from them. They're supposed to be actual characters that grow by themselves, with little bits of help from us through social links. Life goes on for them, with or without us, just like how it is realistically. People don't wait for you so they can change.
@@Valkbg The thing is, for me, that in P5 you aren't the ride they take to change themselves. You are simply the refreshment they take and change according to what They Want. You are responsible for the change but you don't do the change. That's what I like so much about P5 and P4. Just being there for someone and giving them an arm to help, so that they can change and appreciate the fact that You Were There. I can't even begin to explain the kind of happiness I feel. That's what I feel from P4 and P5 confidants anyway.
That subtle "you can't top Kanji and Rise..." is such facts. Kanji and Rise are my favorites in P4 and are close to being my favorites in all persona games.
I don't think they were going for "cool" with Zenkichi's character at all... unless you're only talking about his phantom thief attire. He's made fun of for 90% of the game lol.
i honestly really love the silent protags in p4 and 5, like, i think as someone who does enjoy characterised protagonists, them being silent does actually lend itself to the narrative. especially in p5, akira as a character who was put on probation and sent far away from his hometown to live with strangers, him being a silent and withdrawn character makes a lot of sense and also gives you an insight into the kind of person he is. i'm sure it wasn't 100% intended but he is one of my absolute favourite characters because of his silent narrative and his snarky dialogue options
18:39 I have to disagree with you on the college point. College is a transitional period between childhood and adulthood. You're expected to be an adult, but you've just taken your first steps out of childhood. There's a lot to explore with regard to the characters finding their path in life and their newfound independence.
I agree with almost all of the takes from 3,4, and 5, and I don't know much about 1 and 2, so I'm not going to pass any judgement on an unknown field for me. I personally love Zenkichi as a character. At times, he can be goofy asf, but he can also be, in the words of Futaba, a voice of reason for the Phantom Thieves. He's the only adult Persona-user, and his arc with Akane is just so realistic, and it shows no matter how far the parents get pushed from their child, they can start to close that gap again with honesty and genuine attempts at understanding the views of the child. As for my other disagreement, I have to agree with a commenter on here who stated that Kasumi's Confidant was meant to be kinda bad, and that Kasumi herself was intentionally portrayed as perfect, but only because that's how her sister saw her. Her sister saw her as this perfect child, succeeding in everything, model student, extremely talented in Gymnastics, extremely kind and humble. If you think about that, knowing the final palace's major twist (not the ruler), it makes sense why Kasumi was so perfect.
My hot take is that Yukari wasn’t ruined by The Answer, but it instead showed a more human way of showing that even though someone says that they have moved on, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. Although to be fair, they could have written it better.
Man I just played the new answer and have absolute zero clue why everybody was gaslighting me about it ringing her character. Yeah she was mildly annoying with something she proposes an hour before the end of the game, but it makes sense and everybody makes up
The last two were very interesting, and I personally agree. I always think that Persona games aim to create a "leaving it to fans' imagination" effect, and silent protagonist is perfect for this. This way, the protagonist can be however the fan want them to be. I believe this is good for personal enjoyment. As for the mystery about what happened during/after the romance social link...I think it's closely linked to "leaving it to the fans' imagination" effect. The fact that the game doesn't even show a kiss and use the phrase "spend time together" are how I think they're leaving it to fans' imagination. Hot take: I also don't want the characters to get laid, yet. In my headcanon, I want the characters to be responsible and that, after getting into a relationship, the protagonist would focus even more on working and studying to make his lover happy until they eventually get married and make a happy family (imagine a Narukami residence). But if some other fans desire differently, they can. Everybody wins this way. Cool video Johne!
agreed. and idk if this could work but tbh i want to be able to customize the MC's looks as well, bcs now it kinda feels half-assed (whether we should play from our perspective or from the MC's perspective)
for the first one, i think having a not silent protagonist would make the story more interesting, since then the main character could be more proactive. if they do keep a silent protagonist in the futur games I hope they add a gender select.
@@javxion6576 I see we share the same way of thinking :") Yeah, I would be disappointed if the characters do something I *personally* consider as wrong...I guess leaving it to fans' imagination really is a good decision since it works for everyone without exception 😁
i personally believe that atlus re releasing games with just like an extra character isnt a good idea. the biggest example of this is in catherine fullbody where vincent is shown to be an irresponsible man, but with the addition of rin, he gets her a home, a job, acting like a responsible person which goes against the original intent for vincent's character
After watching this video I feel like I understand Johne a bit more.. I feel like my bond with Johne is growing deeper.. Lavenza : I am thou, thou art I.. Me : ayo wtf All jokes aside Happy New Year Johne! Great content as always. Keep ‘em more persona videos coming!
@@Handlelesswithme Admittedly, the future games in the series will probably just go back to Social Link and the term Confidant being used instead was simply tied to the plot twist. (though, anything is possible, since they could heavily reinvent some things going into a new era.)
I mean, having a persona game set in university/college jives with me not because it's "more mature" (since, really, college is just high school: act 2, people rarely have things more figured out then than they did before, if anything, they're less mature), but because it could lend itself to some interesting mechanical shakeups without totally changing the formula. Like, the time blocks can be more dynamic on a day to day basis since different characters would have different class schedules you'd have to plan around, and an university campus is it's own little town to explore with plenty of potential for urban myth. Tatsumi Port Island was already basically the same type of dynamic. A high school with dorms is indistinguishable from college as far as being able to relate to it as a player, while the chances for some characters to still be living with their families while attending is higher at a college than with a boarding school, since they still tend to be located near normal residential areas. If anything, all the quirky teacher side characters in the persona series make more sense as professors. Maybe I'm in minority thinking about it on a more practical level, though, as I'm sure most of the support for that setting idea does come from a place of ulterior motives, as you said. Just feel like it'd be a good middle ground to strike a balance between the old and new Persona game structures. I loved that part where you talked Ai Ebhihara up only to friend zone her like everyone else in her life. Seriously, though, how can so many people hate on and misunderstand that Social Link, including the spinoff material, but then forgive (or, calling it more truthfully, ignore and excuse) every problem with more egregiously flawed characters?
honestly pretty interesting to see how your opinions have changed on yukari and sumi. also, you genuinely had me laughing a few times throughout this video. would love to see something like this but for SMT.
I definitely agree with you on the social links, yukari is one of my favs and i like when your party members get to be imperfect and messy and maybe even gasp disagree with you? i liked persona 5 a lot but the gang all felt too...uniform i suppose. the only time there was serious friction in the group was the weird morgana friction which just didn't have that many stakes because i mean it's the mascot character, he's not leaving lol.
I agree with your take on Ai completely. She had the biggest side character development that MADE SENSE. I loved her more and more when I leveled up her social link. Seeing her trying to navigate through her inferiority complex and dealing with her developing romantic feelings was completely relatable. Your take on "Kasumi" I partially agree with. I didn't find her interesting at all until the last palace. And her persona awakening in October didn't make much sense. But learning Sumire's twisted story of delusions, loss, and self-condemnation for Kasumi's death in January made her one of the most thought-provoking characters. I'm sad that Sumire got the Haru treatment from base P5. (Only a month to use her character and get to know the REAL her. Both characters deserved better.) Her reawakening was an improvement, but far from the best and fighting her Persona was pretty awesome.
I need people who think Sumire is perfect to explain to me how someone who constantly fails at everything so bad that she develops an inferiority complex fits that description literally at all Idk if this is a media literacy problem or a "clearly you never had the displeasure of being a gifted kid" problem, but Sumire absolutely is not perfect. Unless you count being moderately good at gymnastics perfect i guess. Her whole arc is about how shes constantly failing to meet the expectations set for her by everyone, including herself. She fails so miserably that she even lives an entirely different life as her sister and completely forgets her own identity and suffers for it. Thats a pretty fucking massive character flaw, and its not a conflict that even gets fully resolved by the end of her Confidant. Iirc, she doesnt even get a top placement in her finalist meet, but she takes it in stride because she finally learned to live as herself and not as her sister. Thats a far more potent arc than the majority of characters in P5, and i say that as someone who loves P5 and its cast. Sumire is a character with like zero self confidence and to people who actually engahe with her story thats a massive character flaw. As alluded to earlier, i was a gifted kid when I was younger, i dealt with simikar issues of feeling like i wasnt living up to what was expected of me. Maybe thats why i resonate with her arc so deeply, and why im defending it so much here, but as someone who has dealt with it firsthand, it feels like a massive slap in the face when people say that a character meant to reflect that sort of struggle doesnt actually go through any hardship
Not to mention she had the illusion of being "perfect" because she thought Kasumi WAS perfect so of course if she's living life with full belief that she IS Kasumi, she would also come off that way, even if she does fail at things in the first 5 ranks because she ISN'T HERSELF
Yes it should. Why does persona 1 and persona 2 have different and good versions and we’ve been stuck with the same song for the rest of the series (mainline and spin off)? They could’ve done a different version for each mainline game like how cool would that be
my hottake would be that NG+ needs to offer more, like let you not need to reunlock party members(they start at your level though) and maybe some new scenes that are Ng+ exclusive beside the Velvet boss(maybe the 3rd semester could be a ng+ requirement) Also to me Kasumi's social link 1-5 feels more like you're hanging out with a friend doing things with more so than appealing to someone who you help with something(drug testing, Shogi, Modeling, painting, etc), even though she has the picture perfect moments, through the social link she make mistakes at times like a normal person and through the story her perfect-like image falls apart till she awakens her persona
yeah that is a hot take, new scenes in NG+ would be said scenes not many people would actually see as persona is a very long game for a single playthrough and most people would leave it for a while before jumping back on
Intentionally locking story content behind NG+ is definitely a terrible idea. What they should do for Persona 6 in my opinion is adding max bonus exp for every social link that have key items so the Velvet Room has more purpose in the early stages of the NG+ playthrough, also adding extra hard past story boss battles akin to P3P, while the rest should be like Persona 4's NG+.
Also just having the protagonist be aware they're repeating the year, like in NG+ with subtle lines where they already seem to catch on or be aware of certain plot twists, things like that.
I do agree that people who want an entire main cast of college students are looking for something that Persona just isn't, but I do think that having a couple of college students in the main cast (not the main character) could be great. One of the late game main characters that you can go early on to get tutored or something, that way you can get to know them a little bit before they join. That could easily be a college student.
Honestly, I agree with you that Personal needs to stay High School. It's a perfect time for overcoming mental trauma and finding oneself, which a lot of Persona games really focus on with the Confidant system. And having it based with teenagers, which is a time when a lot of people struggle to find themselves and become their own adults, is absolutely perfect to me. Personally, I think those that want it to 'grow up' either want darker storylines like SMT has, or want to feel better about lewding characters, since they'd be adults instead of teenagers. But I've always thought it was perfect how it is, because I've always viewed it as the less dark and depressing SMT, perfect for teenagers. If they want a darker storyline, play SMT. To me, it's always been Pokemon for the young kids, Digimon for the preteens, Persona for the teens, and SMT for the adults (not saying that only these people should be playing these games, but these are the target demographics. I'm 34 and I play all of these and love them)
I don’t like that main party members can be romanced because it feels out of character the way they act during their social link events and then do a 180 during regular story events.
timestamps!! (pls lmk if I made any mistakes) pls remember that these are johne's opinions and remember to respect them! --- It's Okay To Dislike Old Persona [ 0:58 ] Rearrange Aria Of The Soul [ 2:59 ] - igor dance break at 4:27 -thank me later- Persona Canon Is Not That Important [ 4:31 ] Don't Bring Back Philemon And Nyarl [ 06:40 ] - johne being down bad for Maya [ 7:29 ] + johne HAVING to clarify which Maya he's down bad for [ 7:35 ] -smh johne even the shadow mayas are sexy cmon man- Best And Worst Persona Designs [ 8:15 ] P5 Strikers Is The Worst Spinoff [ 11:15 ] Ai Ebihara Is One Of My Faves [ 12:37 ] P5R Bosses Are Incredible [ 15:56 ] Kasumi's Confidant Isn't Great [ 17:43 ] A College Persona Game Is Dumb [ 18:39 ] Silent Protags Are Good [ 20:50 ] There Is No -sex- Mara In Persona... [ 22:06 ] ---- with all these aside, happy new year, johne! i agreed with some of these opinions, so i'm glad to think i wasn't the minority in any of them. i'm not saying which ones but i will emphasize your take on ai. ai indeed deserved better. the rest i'll leave as a myriad of mysteries lying about. hope you have a good start to 2023
yeah I agree with you. I believe the closest the Persona has gotten to mentioning Mara is the last Elisabeth date in P3FES with "Even I am not blind to the significates of calling upon a gentleman in his own room" but because I can't read Japanese I don't know if that was in the OG or if it was just the localization, but yeah the Persona team has (imao) rightfully steered away from even mentioning Mara between S-Links and the MC.
Just wanna address the last three takes. 1. The college thing, I agree it should stick to high school but I honestly feel that the college thing wouldn't be all that bad as a direct sequel to the games. Cause its all about kids but I would love to see a story of these kids adapting to becoming adults and maybe even letting go of their personas as like a final farewell for them because they are no longer kids and have to actually become the part of society they often fight against. It wouldn't have that persona feel but I think it would be a great way of closing character arcs and having a proper resolution rather than the protagonist fucking off at the very end. This would also allow for atlas to reuse a setting at some point where there's a new cast but the old cast exists within that world and maybe even has a cameo. 2. Silent protanist is something I agree should remain because half the fun of the games is being able to choose your own reactions. But I kinda want the proganist to have a voice but its decided by your choices. I played persona 4 and I was fine with the protag having no voice but I recently started 5 and after hearing his small dialogue in like battles and such I kinda want more voice acting the protagnist without removing that silent protagnist feeling. 3. I don't think you should be able to have sex with romantic partners but I do feel they should delve more into the romances because although that isn't the focus, I think if your going to commit to it you might as well make it good, because they usually feel a bit half assed. You don't need to incorporate it into the story but maybe allow for you to maybe have more unique events especially past level 10 social link/confidant.
Can't wait to see your next tier list video and see P5 strikers below the P3/P5 dancing games. About the college thing, I think you can still have an teenage demographic if your characters aren't teens. I mean, we played FF7 right? Most characters are over 20 years old. But also, I think some people say that as a form of compromise, like, they see this as a natural next step towards what they really want, which is an adult cast.
I did go to college and it was in that period when I really experienced becoming an adult, I think of myself when I was in high school as a child. I would like a Persona game with slightly older characters, just to have a more different and more varied setting, in which they could discuss topics they haven't discussed before. Not all character would need to be students though, there's potential in that idea. I agree with all the other things you said
I agree, college would be a good setting for keeping all the characters together (going to the same campus, dormitories, studying, classes,...) while also opening up the opportunity to address more mature themes (living on your own, fears of what the future holds, working through bad experiences from high school,...)
It’s funny cause even with silent protagonist the dialogue choices give them a lot of personality and gives you an idea of how they would be if they weren’t silent
In regards to your last point, it is DEFINITELY not just the Persona fanbase who feels like that. Honestly, and I know this is not something that is ever going to happen, but I would be perfectly happy if the fanservice (in more than just Persona, but Persona is certainly there) was toned down quite a bit. Romances are fine, beach scenes are okay (without certain tropes), and dirty jokes here or there are fine, but everything regarding those fanservice scenes just don't have the same impact to me anymore. Maybe it's just my changing humor, but I've heard the same shit over and over again, and now I find myself rolling my eyes everytime a "naked girl with pervy guys/misunderstanding" scene comes up. Or a klutz who constantly ends up in perverted scenes. I don't know. It's just frustrating, especially since I know there are plenty of people who do like them. It's just my opinion in the end.
I'm so frustrated at the number of times boys are perving on Ann, her whole arc was about showing she's more than her appearance yet they focus too much on "she's hot and every boy is lewding on her, including the protagonists you are supposed to sympathize with". The whole "Yusuke wants to paint Ann naked" was annoying. She's the only character not being comfortable with her outfit at the beginning, despite it being supposed to represent her true self it seems mostly meant to put the hot girl in a sexy leather costume. Maybe that's because I'm female, but despite being bisexual I really don't like this kind of anime trope. And that's suck because I like Ann, she's very interesting and even all the things she goes through because of the male gaze on her is interesting when it's well written, yet she's also sexualized from time to time.
I want them to get rid of the fuckass hot springs scenes. They are NOT good and I'm glad P5 didn't have one.. except Strikers. ATLUS almost did us a favor
My hot takes, or just takes, would be: 1. Bring Tamaki back. We got to see what she did after SMT If in P1 and in P2 she became a devil summoner trainee. But after that we've heard nothing from her and the Kuzunoha Detective Agency. C'mon, she could've easily become a sort of reoccurring mentor figure for the latest group of persona users, keeping tabs on them for the detective agency just in case it turns out outside help is needed for dealing with the issues caused by the Collective Unconscious. You'd think the organization would be very interested in keeping an eye on such phenomenon, especially when considering it has two actual deities running everything. So basically I want the proper continuity to be addressed again, as the games are all still linked. There's potential for more stuff there, don't just throw it all away! 2. Super bosses should have unique boss themes. P2 EP has a neat super boss theme, why did the series P3 onwards just not have those anymore? 3. Ditch the wild card and let people have multiple personas again. Or keep the wild card so only one character is capable of using all arcanas, but let the rest also switch personas. 4. Bring difficulty back. And I mean difficulty, not just long grindy HP bars. Give us bosses that require strategy and proper understanding of the mechanics again, and don't be afraid to beat the hell out of the player for not paying attention. You have difficulty modes already, so make Hard actually mean something. 5. Tie character arcs better into the story. Heck, maybe even have social link progression affect parts of the story because those character arcs are integral to it! Just.. make character development properly matter again. 6. I'd like a little more nuance, topics with loads of grey area and exploration of those grey areas, of exploring different views and their ups and downs. But I get it, Persona is a more straight forward narrative about overcoming a more straight forward issue. It's not SMT. I still would like more complicated scenarios.
@@JohneAwesome Yeah I can see that being an issue, so maybe there could be some more streamlined system for that. Either way, I can see potential for more elaborate boss designs if one can change character weaknesses on the fly at least. So from gameplay perspective this could help with a lot of things. But fusing personas would need to be changed or it would become a massive pain.
@@JohneAwesome C'mon that is easy to fix. Have multiple, almost endless supplies of fusion material and you have it. Just have for the ultimate personae be the case of story relevant events and social links and then, we have it fixed.
Disagree on Zenkichi. I like how they handled the bond he and the phantom thieves forged throughout the game where they start out rough and opposing of each other but eventually become allies with each other. Especially since their backgrounds makes them pretty opposed to each other.
I agree that Persona lends itself well to its High School setting, and there’s lots of ground for story telling. But I don’t think it’s wrong for people to want a fresh Persona game that takes place during adulthood. I also think the setting comes off a bit “anime trope-y”. There’s so much about the human experience you don’t interact with during your teen years. It really feels like a missed opportunity. And we know The Persona Team can do it, because Catherine is a small taste of that kind of story. And like, Altus can do whatever they want. If they don’t wanna make that game, and they don’t see a demographic in their older audience, so be it. But I think there could be an interesting game there.
I agree with you about Kasumi, another thing about her I wish was different is that her metaverse outfit wasn’t so similar to Jokers. I get it from a certain standpoint, how she looks up to Joker so her “ideal version of thief” would be based on it, but it almost feels lazy. Also, as someone who IS a twin, and an identical one at that, her entire story just feels very underdeveloped and basic. Yes, I know this is fictional, but at the end of the day, I would never want to be her. I feel as if it would be more interesting to the story if the actual Kasumi came back in same way and that was the whole major plot point rather than her try to be her sister, and maybe she could’ve addressed her grief in her confidant, cause losing a loved one is tough on anyone.
Yesyes, I've even seen some people make Sumi's Metaverse Outfit more look like her persona because so far from what we have seen, the Persona User's Outfit and the Persona have like similarity and for Sumi it kind of isn't there at all.
Showcasing some scenes in her family life after the accident would've certainly helped. Like for example Sumire trying to play the role of Kasumi AND herself in the same time and failing. Her father consoling her, etc.
That's because that was Sumire's perception of Kasumi. She thought her sister was perfect so it makes sense that she would come off that way before it's actually revealed who she is
i love strikers personally, and Zenkichi being forced is......definitely a take. I find it funny that i disagreed with every take you had, except for the last few supposedly "super controversial" ones lol.
My hot take: the cast of 3 don't really seem like friends, just work buddies. They all have 1 or 2 people they care about but otherwise they never have any significant interactions outside of SEES duties and the vacation/field trip segments.
This isn’t a hot take at all, it’s just the fact and why they make for better characters. Everyone starts out as work buddies who happen to have this special power and eventually they become friends through hardship, rather than “Yo we just met, now we’re best friends and going to kill a god!”
This is a fairly popular take but honestly I never understood it. I've worked plenty, not once have I wanted to take my coworkers to the beach, or attend a festival with them, or learn how to cook from them, and so on. Also P3 has the cast just...hang out in the dorms, they don't make a big deal of it but you can just find Yukari and Akihiko on the couch together reading just because, Junpei and Mitsuru can just hang out talking about studying. When did you ever see Chie and Kanji be even close to each other outside of the group or Yukiko and Yusuke talk alone? SEES always felt like friends in the casual moments to me in a way the others didn't. They just...hang out without you, they talk without you outside of their premade groups. They are friends outside of the big group moments.
Johne: 18:40 Persona should not be in college bc teenagers are finding themselves, fighting demons, etc… Also Johne: 22:08 no segs bc teenagers don’t have segs Truly the contrarian we don’t deserve o7
okay, but using alex yiik as an example of a talking protag to prove your point about silent protags being better is like if i said "honestly i think burgers don't taste that good" and i threw a whole cow at you
I understand why the protags are silent. I just want more player agency. It doesn't feel like I have a relationship with any social link because all characters ever do is just talk at and around me. Let me make actual choices.
If I can add some takes on my own: ▪️When comes to romances, I definitely think you should be allowed to break up with the character if you rather romance someone else(as it’s realistic to not be together with the first person you dated as you both may not like each other like that way anymore). ▪️Also okay idk if this is a hot take, but I hate the fact even though it’s optional, that you can romance all the girls. Besides not being realistic(come on, not every girl in your friend group would be into you), I hate it how it ruins the friendship you made with your female party members throughout the story. Like how are we supposed to believe they’re sad to see you go when you just broke all their hearts!? ▪️I actually like Mishima and his social link. I think it’s nice development for him to realize he’s over his head a bit about using the thiefnet for selfish purposes and in the end, was able to change with no help from the protagonist(also going to write a novel good for him^^).
Yeah, breaking up would be less problematic and more realistic than ending up with a harem, and there's some characters who work better when they're not romantically into the protagonist : - Kawakami, she's his freaking teacher and could work better as a mother figure. - I like Futaba as a little sister even if she's not related to the protagonist and didn't grow up with him, that's mostly because of wholesome family moments with Sojiro like the single Christmas event. - Any of the other adult love interests, seriously how it's more acceptable than gay relationships? Again it's Japan, but if the protagonist was a girl with adult men I bet people would find it more offending. That's the aspect of the game that reminds you most the target audience is young straight men, as if boys could only see waifus in female characters. And that's sad such interesting characters are limited to becoming potential girlfriends
@@jujublue4426 I definitely agree with the adult women confidants shouldn’t be romance options. Like I love Kawakami and her entire social link as it a sweet arc how you’re able to help his poor woman be able to enjoy teaching others again after changing the hearts of her old student’s parents. She’s honestly more of a mother figure towards your character like how Sojiro is a father figure.
@@jujublue4426 It's actually crazy how protagonists will have more chemistry with characters they can't date but be able to date characters they essentially have zero chemistry with just because it would be a straight romance?? Also in regards to p5 if the whole idea is that they're misfits in Japan wouldn't some of them being gay actually make sense? The concept would certainly add an extra depth to these characters.
it does feel awkward being an adult playing as a hisghscooler sometimes. I can’t imagine persona without the high school setting but it would be nice to be able to play the game without having to be like “wait, I’m supposed to be like, 15 in this video game”
I don't think that people generally hate silent protagonists, it's just that for a game about forming relationships it's hard to actually feel a connection in the relationship if it feels very one-sided. It relies too much on self projection which explains why they've moved away from writing characters that people will hate immediately. Personally I think it would improve some aspects/view points of characters like Morgana who appear to constantly control the player's actions. If players view it more as Morgana just controlling Joker's actions instead of themselves then I think Morgana would be hated less. Personally most of the relationships felt superficial and one-sided unless they were story driven (except Morgana that one felt like he was just talking to himself the whole time). I never really felt like the romance options were great partners because they all ended up falling in love with the main character usually because he saved/helped them and not because they enjoy each other's company.
You hit the nail on the head. But to me, I prefer feeling like a character in a world rather than a person who is controlling a character. It is why I prefer voiced protags in RPGs even if I get less options. Plus, they actually talk and have conversations with others and I forget that I am playing a game. Plus, Plus, I think the idea that a player character has to be devoid of personality for the sake of the player's immersion is a bad idea. Especially if you're not letting players make an original character like Persona doesn't.
Ok, I love Strikers just because I like Sophia and Zenkichi’s personalities, but I do agree that a P5 game is the worst Persona spin off, and that’s because it’s Tactica
My hot take that I never knew was a hot take until recently, Persona 5's way of doing palaces is infinitely better than Persona 3's. A more straightforward but heavily stylized and intentionally designed dungeon with a theme can tie itself with the story and by being more linear it allows the developers to be far more deliberate. It's weird that I see people talk all the time about how Persona 3 is better and cite the dungeon crawling as the primary reason. Another hot take: Persona is not Dark Souls, it doesn't have to be so difficult that most people can't reach the end, it needs to provide enough difficulty to push back and force you to think, but not frustrate. It's a JRPG series, the story is the most important. Seen so many people praise Persona 3 because it's apparently super ultra difficult and crushes hours of work if you make 1 mistake (don't know the validity, never played 3). Gamers these days are too obsessed with thinking that games need to be impossible, every boss needs to take hours to weeks of challenging to finally defeat, every encounter must be capable of destroying you, and that you must be wrestling your controller as you play, and every advantage you give yourself robs you of the experience because difficulty is everything. I do think the high-school setting does kind of limit design because Japanese highschools have a super generic layout and look to them, but the issue is, Japanese colleges aren't exactly better. It would be cool if it had the layout you could see in a North American technology college, but ye, the series is probably better left in highschool to fit the themes of Persona.
HARD YES on the silent protagonist thing. i ADORE silent protags because heck you, they ARE their own characters. Ren doesn't feel like a complete blank slate at all. I've only played 5 so far so I don't accurately know how he compares to...Boy with Earring..., Tatsuya, Maya, Makoto, Kotone, or Yu, but imo he's really well done. unrelated but Yusuke is best p5 boy imo
I have always wondered what sort of wild opinions you have since you dont express during walkthroughs too much. I was half wrong i guess. Would love to see more vids like this. Happy New year Mr Awesome. Thank you for taking me through another year
late to the video but i think kasumi was intentionally written to seem perfect because it makes the player suspect of her and has her characters twist hit so much harder
I'm pretty indifferent to most of these takes, most seeming pretty neutral rather than hot. Honestly, the only one that I disagree with is about Strikers and I think that just comes down to different tastes (although you are right about the final boss of Strikers being a copy of Yaldabaoth, no one is gonna deny or defend that). I absolutely agree with the no mara after maxing a bond, because that's honestly just unnecessary especially since the protag is typically like 16-17. And I also agree that Persona doesn't need to be in Collage or Workplace environment to evolve future games, like sure, it'd be cool and they could tackle different subject matter but it's not necessary. I think the youth of these characters honestly makes the themes & ideas Persona games present hit so much harder, it certainly does for Persona 3 & 5.
With the "no mara" thing I'm indifferent towards it because that's a normal thing at that age, tons of people were doing it when I was in school and even after I got out of school my younger cousins and would always talk about some of them or other people who also do that. So I don't see the big issue tbh
I feel like Kasumi's confidant is very misleading. It's barely an actual confidant, it's practically automatic and has no bumps, it just sets up her plot and buildup only to fizzle out in the finale when we have two other "new" characters (i am counting akechi as new cause we learn a lot more about him) that completely steal the show both before and after Kasumi's arc concludes. I like her, but i cannot find myself to love her character. She is a very fine milquetoast that i can somewhat enjoy every day. But nothing more.
I honestly hate the sexualization of several characters on top of a high school student dating someone way above his age [Is that just me?] Though I feel like many of the persona 5 girls cast was a bit meh in terms of their personality at least, The one i liked the most was Haru and she got the least amount of screentime
Definitely agree, having a high school student dating someone probably twice his age is just icky to me. In particular because for p5 it conflicts so fundamentally with the ideas of the Kamoshida arc. Also Haru best girl
It's also because of the final dungeon and some jokes from P5 that it feels underwhelming. I did like the game's attempt at Jails and the bosses and the mechanics.
7:37 “No, not her. She’s a child.” Been a hot minute since I last check Persona 2 lore, I thought Maya in 2 was in her early 20s and not in her teens unlike the rest teammate who are in the first persona 2 game? I might be misremembering that.
I think a college persona would be cool if it was first year college, as someone who just went through that, you're still young, and you're still a growing person who is dealing with the stresses of academic life, I think social links would be really interesting because you could have friends that are a year younger than you and still in high school, and help them through the stresses of going to college (or doing something else) next year, and friends a year older than you who can help you through your first year in this foreign landscape (maybe increasing your knowledge stat along the way). Ik it's almost definitely not gonna happen, but I think being a young person (not even an adult) in college could have the potential to be a really good persona game. I also think that it would make the time management a lot more interesting, since attendance isn't mandatory in a lot of different universities, you could choose between going to a lecture or spending time with friends
On the silent protagonist topic, I think it would be interesting if they took it in a direction similar to the god eater games. In those games, the protagonist is mostly silent, but at certain very important moments in the story, you hear your character speak. It really added weight to some of those moments for me. And it wouldn’t be too different from what they have already done. For example, Joker has multiple voice lines in gameplay and a few lines in the anime cutscenes. Although, I will say taking it the degree of someone like Shez from fire emblem 3 hopes would be too far, because Shez is a much more defined character compared to Joker, Yu, or Makoto. That’s my take on this anyway. I think I might’ve written a bit too much.
I disagree with you that P5S is bad but I respect your opinion, what I don’t respect is calling it the worst Persona spin-off, as that is utter hyperbole when, although I like them, the P3/5 Dancing games certainly endure that title.
Huh, I didn’t realize I’ve watched this video, well despite me being at an age where I thought using big words made me sound older when I made that comment, I stand by it
OoooOOOO That WAS some hot takes! I'm fully on-board with the "you're not the demographic???" one about why it should not be set in college. And good luck with the Japanese learning! If you have a goal to shoot for - reading original JP scripts for visual novels being one - you'll be able to keep it up for the long term :)
Most RPG fans prefer a silent protagonist, what people are asking for is for characters that actually have dialogue to be voiced, especially since A LOT of these games are story. The reason games like this have mostly no voice acting for in game dialogue and reuse little voice lines is to save on space in the game, but that's kind of archaic nowadays. Modern game consoles can handle being fully voiced, I think Fire Emblem Three Houses helped a lot of people realize that. And if the Switch can handle it, anything can.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Can a homie hit 500 likes before new years 🤔💭
I got Like #69. Nuff said
Trying my dangdest brother
Since you asked so nicely
Count on me
begging
"People have sex in persona, just not you!" Is one of the funniest lines I've ever heard
The same could be said about real life, really
@@Seraphic2004bro saw right trough me
REAL
@@Seraphic2004true
And that’s why the protags are self inserts
Nah dude, obviously when Yukari says that she hopes that no one will hear her scream is because you're about to watch Markiplier play FNAF. It's a little hard to get that easter egg, but don't worry I got you
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Smh, Yukari could've just looked for the jumpscare timestamps in the comments
Uh, P3 came LONG before FNAF though
I know it's a joke, but it's a bad one
@@shelbybayer200 it'll happen in the remake then
@@shelbybayer200
R/wooooooosh
Johne calling Maya "a child", when she's 23 years old, was a twitter moment.
To be fair the rest of the characters are high schoolers so he could have gotten confused
SHE IS 23?! I always tought she was a highschooler
@Nani she has a job, house and is friends with other adults already lol
@@tr3dawggg yeah i haven't really played or watched p2 so i was really shocked when maya was actually an adult lol
@@shrimpshufflr7745 why’s she hanging out at their school tho??? I’ve only watched short playthroughs of P2 so I’m a little confused rn
The way John had to clarify which Maya he was down bad for like 3 times kills me every time
There are Way too many Mayas lmao
Gale winds are now going back in my head so far and I have
Ace Attorney Series: **Nervous Sweating**
down bad?
@@topasu9454 Horny for
Another reason Persona in college wouldn't work is that the subjects you study are far more specific than the general education you get in high school. So either they'd need to bend over backward to be as vague as possible with the class questions, or alienate all the players who can't relate to a protag who decided to major in anthropology.
Yeah. I think people want persona to take place in college because the cast would be adults and it's different
Coming in a year late, but the majority of colleges still require you to take general courses. Perhaps that’s just an American thing, but knowing how lacking the US is in education, I doubt it
@@Jaxelhhigher education in the US isn’t all bad, and yes, we have to do have to do plenty of general ed too
Anthropology major here, absolutely agree with this take
Basically, as long as at least the protagonist was a freshman, it'd be indistinguishable from High School. Pretty uncommon to even get started on your major in the first year, and even if you do, likely not in the first semester. ...Could even pick a major in gameplay midway through the year like picking extracurriculars in P3 and P4.
(If anything, the Japanese high school level questions asked in the Person games are above the majority of American high school experiences already, and people from their that know any of the answers just came across those subjects after graduating/outside of classwork.)
I want the persona 6 velvet room to be a jazz bar where persona fusion is the bartender mixing drinks, playing the piano in the lobby not only changes the in game bgm but also applies different boons and bonuses, playing things like darts or other bar games increases persona of certain arcana. And since bars are social places, have "phantoms" of potential social links show up as customers since the velvet room has always been a place in between mind and matter. That way it ties back into those random points in the game where the mc dreams about a social link giving you bonus points towards them along with the idea that other people have been to the velvet room before.
Cool idea!
i sadly doubt persona 6 will be jazz themed considering that was p5s mood
thatd be cool af
Bro wrote up a masterpiece idea on a whim. This would be PERFECT.
this is just perfect
My favorite thing about the Persona series has to be the little moments of friendship that you see. Every game leaves me saying, "I love these characters"
I hope they never lose that.
My fave thing is that the story is simple. It could be silly and over complicated like Blazblue or Kingdom Hearts
@@jakeriese4862 why do people keep saying that kh's story is convoluted,its super easy to understand if you play all the games
I specially like them when there's shiton of them in order to cover up an obvious lack of plot
@@deatheater6222i played kh 3 the ds games and dream drop distance for the 3ds and the mobile game but only the dark road and i just watched one video about the lore before going in and i understand id easily so i dont think you have to play the games since many people explain it so good that even if you didn't play the games you can understand it but playing the games may be the best way to learn it
@kiryukazuma6222 It's convoluted because you have to play every single game - including spinoffs - to understand it, and it has to keep including new twists in order to actually have an excuse to continue the story whenever a new game comes out
Tbh i really loved zenkichi he didn't come off as the badass type but the responsible but goofy character
Gramps is one of my favourite characters
I like Zenkichi
yah he wasn't really meant to be this super cool dude. But rather just a dad and a cop that's trying to balance the idea of when his orders go against justice.
HE JOINED AND GOT A PERSONA BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SAVE HIS KID
Zenkichi's awaking is honestly one of my favorites, mainly because it's his literal shadow talking to him and not just a disembodied voice, and I hope they do that more in the future
I loved Zenkichi because his arc reminded me so much of Persona 2 Eternal Punishment and how it reflects the difficulties of being an adult
That Kasumi take hit me like Tyson’s uppercut. I would love for you to make a separate video on that! A MASSIVE amount of the fandom absolutely loves her (me included, I think I have very solid points as well let me know if anyone would like to hear!) and am super interested in the thoughts of someone who wasn’t really a fan of hers. I would especially love for you to elaborate on your comment that said “she feels forced” when I feel like she was integrated perfectly. Happy new year Johne!
"she feels forced" i mean, she was literally created and inserted in an already established story. she exists to simp joker from the onset with little to no buildup. no reason to support and like him as strongly as she did from their first meeting. regardless of their quality, persona does make an effort to create characters with strong personalities that don't rely on joker. can't really say that about kasumi.
I would like to hear your points because I like her but I don’t know why
@@giargue
1. I like her relationship with Joker, i feel like she is the only character in the game that feels like a “normal” friend due the fact that she and Joker were not brought together by supernatural/abnormal events unlike the rest of the party members and her interactions with Joker are not restricted to confidant events like most of the non-party members confidants. They have a lot of one-on-one interactions both inside and outside of her confidant, and their interactions include a good mix of spending time together doing more casual stuff like normal teenagers and more serious moments like Joker providing necessary emotional support to her. In general I think she and Joker have a good dynamic that makes them work really well as friends or more than friends.
2. I like how her story was framed to look simple at a first glance but once you learn the thruth about her a lot of her scenes in the base game are recontextualized. For example, there are several instances during the first half of her confidant that were showcasing how the “Kasumi” persona and the “Sumire” persona clashed and contradicted each other, other things like her “slump” and her “awakening” also obtain a different meaning in retrospect.
3. I like how her story fits the themes in Royal, she starts the story as a person that doesn't have the strength to face the harsh reality and is granted the thing she thought she wanted, but as a consequence of that she becomes stagnant and isn't able to reach the results she wished for and was never going to do so because she had become ignorant to her problems, is not until she decides to face reality, even is it means carrying with the fact her sister died because of her that she starts to growth as person and gets on the right path to achieve her dream. Her story shows why change is not done by your own will is meaningless.
4. And in general she has the things I want in a character, she has motivations, she has legitimate flaws as a person, she has struggles that she needs to overcome and she has character growth, overall her character and her story resonated strongly with me.
@@topasu9454 read my reply to the comment below you and see if you can agree. I get the “forced” aspect but Royal was literally adding another story onto a already completed story. And the new story would obviously have new characters, and I actually think they did a great job on her development. Saying that people don’t rely on joker really isn’t true because he is literally the pillar of the thieves, and everyone’s rock. Not trying to be disrespectful just debating.
@@planet_macee I just want to add on how much I love her arc of struggling with identity, too, and how even after 'overcoming' it, she is still cripplingly dependent on other people. I like how we get to see her growth from being dependent on the identity of Kasumi and Maruki's teachings, to being dependent on you, the protagonist, as a way to explore her true self. It fits so well how so many of Joker's friends trust him so deeply as an emotional anchor, and I found it loveable how Sumire feels conflicted about her reliance on youin the end, but decides she doesn't mind, because unlike Maruki and her memory of Kasumi, you aren't controlling her or trying to change her for 'her benefit', you're simply supporting her in figuring out who she wants to be.
SO GLAD TO SEE AI EBIHARA APPRECIATION. She's one of my favs from P4 as well, her Social Link was super interesting to me, towards the end she became a genuinely good friend towards Yu and honestly it was kinda cool to see a romance route that ends in a break-up and them staying friends.
Yeah i was very surprised by her social link the first time i did it
I think we should get another college persona game but it doesn’t always need to be college. Same way it shouldn’t always be high school, it just starts to get old. There are plenty of stories that can be told through the lens of college students who may be starting to find life hopeless or ‘over’ because they aren’t kids anymore. It’d be super cool if there was a persona game showing that no matter what you can always have something to look forward to in the future. I’m honestly surprised they haven’t done that given how in Japan especially they see it like your life ends after high school LMAO
Persona 2 eternal punishment with thier mostly adult cast and i like how them being adults are connected to the themes of the story
If you want to know then go watch the persona compendium vedio
@@hello-gx6oi not sure if that reply was for me but I know the plot of all the games ^-^
Another detail about Milady's design is that the reason she doesn't have a head is because her character Milady de Winter was actually beheaded! I find it really cool they decided to incorporate that element into her design, I don't think it would really be the same without it.
About Kasumi : I think that her being presented as "perfect" is intentional because that's how Sumire saw her sister. The social link still sucks but it's like Price and Price Another Version : the first sucked so the second one could be great
I thought the social link slapped
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction The first 5 ranks are pretty forgettable for the most part I find
@@blurb9319 Yeah, I get it
You hate the normal price?
I really liked Yoshizawa's social link, it's one my favourites infact.
people who want a college-centerd persona definetly just want it for the sake of relating to the characters more trough age, and not feeling weird about dating high school students even if they're fictional characters. They don't want college-characters because they think it'd actually be better for the franchise, but just for themselves
Yeah I agree, especially with the dating thing since there's a lot of people who complain about some of Joker's dating options being "problematic" because they're too old or having issues with the dating in general because they're young students. And that kinda gets annoying
For me it's more that I'm tired of every setting set in school. Maybe because I seen so much high school centric anime growing up. Now does it have to be college no, I'm fine with it being highschool but man when Catherine came out it felt really refreshing. It just felt so different and I'd like if they shaked it up abit but I think that's what metaphor is for(their new game)
I think Joker is the best performance of a silent protagonist, he has a clearly established personality, but we still get to shape that personality.
What personality lmao? At least yu had a personality they could work with. Joker just had a bunch of random traits that don’t really fit together.
what personality does yu has? he’s just a perfect fuckboi character that everyone worships.
@@samsclubhouseQuiet and reserved in real life but turns cocky and light hearted in the Metaverse? He's literally Persona's Spider-Man. And Narukami is the worst example of a Persona MC you could go with. He is the definition of 'Mr. Perfect'. There's nothing interesting there
@@connorharnage6697 in the anime he was mellow dramatic, and somewhat whimsy. People just say that was his personality
Probably relating to the themes in how he does what he wants without restraint so he has nothing to hide
@@Handlelesswithme Who? Narukami or Joker? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I never watch the anime versions except P3's movies
My favorite thing about persona or SMT series as a whole is that they take folklore from everywhere like irish,greek,Japanese, Chinese, American, or even pop culture. I love the attention of detail some designs are better then others but i love they always ta have accurate lore in there info bios
Exactly my thought too, I hope they explore more folklores in their games.
Yeah, non Persona SMT games do it better because you actually interact with them and feel more fleshed out
About the silent character thing, Atlus did make a voiced MC in Catherine
I’m not sure if that’s an argument for or against that kinda thing - while Vincent definitely has a better defined personality than the silent MCs he is harder to relate to, so I suppose it depends on what the game is going for…
@@therussianprincess7036 It's not an argument, I'm just pointing out that Atlus already did that
I mean personally IMO I don't mind having protags not being voiced or have minimal dialogue. I guess to some people they would like them to be voiced others not so much. I really don't care. Plus reading text sounds like a them/first world problem since you have to read text even if you're not playing a story focus/rpg.
I think it should be a mix, Joker was Very close to what I'd call a balance between Silent and Voiced.
@Arcticanine There were times in P5 where I remember thinking this probably would've been better if the line you picked was voiced instead of Joker just taking a step forward or whatever. I'm glad they atleast voiced the "Pillage him Satanael" part
I believe that if they're gonna make Persona 6, they should write the character development for the party members similar to Persona 3, where the character's growth is tied to the story rather than their social link. P4 & P5's party members don't experience the same growth that the P3 crew have; You can tell the difference between Junpei's development vs Yosuke's or Ryuji's development throughout their respective stories.
inb4 this is a cold take lol.
I agree! My favorite ensemble cast is still P3 because they feel much more rooted in their story and dynamics! Even if I have no real criticism towards the writing in P4 or P5 cast-wise (I mean I do but that’s mostly nitpicking, not real qualms) I like the P3 cast better.
I personally like the P4 and P5 way more then P3, because here the player themselves are responsible for the change in the party. They get to experience it by their own volition and feel responsible for bringing about a change. It's just feels better imo, the feeling of spending time with your teammates and seeing them appreciated you doing so and changing a bit as a result.
That's my opinion anyway.
@@Arcticanine To me that feels like they arent people at all. WHich they arent but that is beside the point. In P3 they develop independantly from you and not because of you like a puppet
@@Arcticanine
That's a nice way of thinking it,
Personally though I feel like that takes away the 'people' aspect from them. They're supposed to be actual characters that grow by themselves, with little bits of help from us through social links. Life goes on for them, with or without us, just like how it is realistically. People don't wait for you so they can change.
@@Valkbg The thing is, for me, that in P5 you aren't the ride they take to change themselves. You are simply the refreshment they take and change according to what They Want. You are responsible for the change but you don't do the change.
That's what I like so much about P5 and P4. Just being there for someone and giving them an arm to help, so that they can change and appreciate the fact that You Were There. I can't even begin to explain the kind of happiness I feel. That's what I feel from P4 and P5 confidants anyway.
That subtle "you can't top Kanji and Rise..." is such facts. Kanji and Rise are my favorites in P4 and are close to being my favorites in all persona games.
I don't think they were going for "cool" with Zenkichi's character at all... unless you're only talking about his phantom thief attire. He's made fun of for 90% of the game lol.
Happy New Year mister JohneAwesome
He's a dad trying to look cool and that's why gramps is one of my favorite P5 characters despite being from a spin off
i honestly really love the silent protags in p4 and 5, like, i think as someone who does enjoy characterised protagonists, them being silent does actually lend itself to the narrative. especially in p5, akira as a character who was put on probation and sent far away from his hometown to live with strangers, him being a silent and withdrawn character makes a lot of sense and also gives you an insight into the kind of person he is.
i'm sure it wasn't 100% intended but he is one of my absolute favourite characters because of his silent narrative and his snarky dialogue options
18:39
I have to disagree with you on the college point. College is a transitional period between childhood and adulthood. You're expected to be an adult, but you've just taken your first steps out of childhood. There's a lot to explore with regard to the characters finding their path in life and their newfound independence.
I agree with almost all of the takes from 3,4, and 5, and I don't know much about 1 and 2, so I'm not going to pass any judgement on an unknown field for me.
I personally love Zenkichi as a character. At times, he can be goofy asf, but he can also be, in the words of Futaba, a voice of reason for the Phantom Thieves. He's the only adult Persona-user, and his arc with Akane is just so realistic, and it shows no matter how far the parents get pushed from their child, they can start to close that gap again with honesty and genuine attempts at understanding the views of the child.
As for my other disagreement, I have to agree with a commenter on here who stated that Kasumi's Confidant was meant to be kinda bad, and that Kasumi herself was intentionally portrayed as perfect, but only because that's how her sister saw her. Her sister saw her as this perfect child, succeeding in everything, model student, extremely talented in Gymnastics, extremely kind and humble. If you think about that, knowing the final palace's major twist (not the ruler), it makes sense why Kasumi was so perfect.
My hot take is that Yukari wasn’t ruined by The Answer, but it instead showed a more human way of showing that even though someone says that they have moved on, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. Although to be fair, they could have written it better.
I dunno man, I think Yukari is actually one of the best written persona character.
Not hot take
Man I just played the new answer and have absolute zero clue why everybody was gaslighting me about it ringing her character. Yeah she was mildly annoying with something she proposes an hour before the end of the game, but it makes sense and everybody makes up
The last two were very interesting, and I personally agree.
I always think that Persona games aim to create a "leaving it to fans' imagination" effect, and silent protagonist is perfect for this. This way, the protagonist can be however the fan want them to be. I believe this is good for personal enjoyment.
As for the mystery about what happened during/after the romance social link...I think it's closely linked to "leaving it to the fans' imagination" effect. The fact that the game doesn't even show a kiss and use the phrase "spend time together" are how I think they're leaving it to fans' imagination. Hot take: I also don't want the characters to get laid, yet. In my headcanon, I want the characters to be responsible and that, after getting into a relationship, the protagonist would focus even more on working and studying to make his lover happy until they eventually get married and make a happy family (imagine a Narukami residence). But if some other fans desire differently, they can. Everybody wins this way.
Cool video Johne!
agreed. and idk if this could work but tbh i want to be able to customize the MC's looks as well, bcs now it kinda feels half-assed (whether we should play from our perspective or from the MC's perspective)
for the first one, i think having a not silent protagonist would make the story more interesting, since then the main character could be more proactive. if they do keep a silent protagonist in the futur games I hope they add a gender select.
I literally can't play the game if the characters have pre marital sex smh fr
@@javxion6576 I see we share the same way of thinking :") Yeah, I would be disappointed if the characters do something I *personally* consider as wrong...I guess leaving it to fans' imagination really is a good decision since it works for everyone without exception 😁
i personally believe that atlus re releasing games with just like an extra character isnt a good idea. the biggest example of this is in catherine fullbody where vincent is shown to be an irresponsible man, but with the addition of rin, he gets her a home, a job, acting like a responsible person which goes against the original intent for vincent's character
After watching this video I feel like I understand Johne a bit more..
I feel like my bond with Johne is growing deeper..
Lavenza : I am thou, thou art I..
Me : ayo wtf
All jokes aside Happy New Year Johne! Great content as always. Keep ‘em more persona videos coming!
Parasocial link
@@dogfrogbird8710 Oh no, that's what P6 is going to actually revolve around, isn't it? Like, right down to using that term for the Links.
@@Shalakorthe Persona 6 protagonist will be too relatable they can’t
@@Handlelesswithme Admittedly, the future games in the series will probably just go back to Social Link and the term Confidant being used instead was simply tied to the plot twist. (though, anything is possible, since they could heavily reinvent some things going into a new era.)
I would listen to multiple hours worth of you discussing persona lore/stuff fr!!
I mean, having a persona game set in university/college jives with me not because it's "more mature" (since, really, college is just high school: act 2, people rarely have things more figured out then than they did before, if anything, they're less mature), but because it could lend itself to some interesting mechanical shakeups without totally changing the formula. Like, the time blocks can be more dynamic on a day to day basis since different characters would have different class schedules you'd have to plan around, and an university campus is it's own little town to explore with plenty of potential for urban myth. Tatsumi Port Island was already basically the same type of dynamic. A high school with dorms is indistinguishable from college as far as being able to relate to it as a player, while the chances for some characters to still be living with their families while attending is higher at a college than with a boarding school, since they still tend to be located near normal residential areas. If anything, all the quirky teacher side characters in the persona series make more sense as professors. Maybe I'm in minority thinking about it on a more practical level, though, as I'm sure most of the support for that setting idea does come from a place of ulterior motives, as you said. Just feel like it'd be a good middle ground to strike a balance between the old and new Persona game structures.
I loved that part where you talked Ai Ebhihara up only to friend zone her like everyone else in her life. Seriously, though, how can so many people hate on and misunderstand that Social Link, including the spinoff material, but then forgive (or, calling it more truthfully, ignore and excuse) every problem with more egregiously flawed characters?
honestly pretty interesting to see how your opinions have changed on yukari and sumi. also, you genuinely had me laughing a few times throughout this video. would love to see something like this but for SMT.
I definitely agree with you on the social links, yukari is one of my favs and i like when your party members get to be imperfect and messy and maybe even gasp disagree with you? i liked persona 5 a lot but the gang all felt too...uniform i suppose. the only time there was serious friction in the group was the weird morgana friction which just didn't have that many stakes because i mean it's the mascot character, he's not leaving lol.
I agree with your take on Ai completely. She had the biggest side character development that MADE SENSE. I loved her more and more when I leveled up her social link. Seeing her trying to navigate through her inferiority complex and dealing with her developing romantic feelings was completely relatable.
Your take on "Kasumi" I partially agree with. I didn't find her interesting at all until the last palace. And her persona awakening in October didn't make much sense. But learning Sumire's twisted story of delusions, loss, and self-condemnation for Kasumi's death in January made her one of the most thought-provoking characters. I'm sad that Sumire got the Haru treatment from base P5. (Only a month to use her character and get to know the REAL her. Both characters deserved better.) Her reawakening was an improvement, but far from the best and fighting her Persona was pretty awesome.
"Down bad for Maya"
"¡Not the Shadow!" 🤣
I need people who think Sumire is perfect to explain to me how someone who constantly fails at everything so bad that she develops an inferiority complex fits that description literally at all
Idk if this is a media literacy problem or a "clearly you never had the displeasure of being a gifted kid" problem, but Sumire absolutely is not perfect. Unless you count being moderately good at gymnastics perfect i guess. Her whole arc is about how shes constantly failing to meet the expectations set for her by everyone, including herself. She fails so miserably that she even lives an entirely different life as her sister and completely forgets her own identity and suffers for it. Thats a pretty fucking massive character flaw, and its not a conflict that even gets fully resolved by the end of her Confidant. Iirc, she doesnt even get a top placement in her finalist meet, but she takes it in stride because she finally learned to live as herself and not as her sister. Thats a far more potent arc than the majority of characters in P5, and i say that as someone who loves P5 and its cast. Sumire is a character with like zero self confidence and to people who actually engahe with her story thats a massive character flaw.
As alluded to earlier, i was a gifted kid when I was younger, i dealt with simikar issues of feeling like i wasnt living up to what was expected of me. Maybe thats why i resonate with her arc so deeply, and why im defending it so much here, but as someone who has dealt with it firsthand, it feels like a massive slap in the face when people say that a character meant to reflect that sort of struggle doesnt actually go through any hardship
Not to mention she had the illusion of being "perfect" because she thought Kasumi WAS perfect so of course if she's living life with full belief that she IS Kasumi, she would also come off that way, even if she does fail at things in the first 5 ranks because she ISN'T HERSELF
That strikers take was something
Same with that Royal take. Not the bosses one, the Kasumi one
Aria of the soul should never change at all
It should get a remix imo, that way it doesn't change but sounds different as well.
Rearrangement, not completely change
Yes it should. Why does persona 1 and persona 2 have different and good versions and we’ve been stuck with the same song for the rest of the series (mainline and spin off)? They could’ve done a different version for each mainline game like how cool would that be
It should be dubsteb once it permanently gets turned into Club Velvet
That song should be consistent throughout the series. It’s part of the MC’s collective unconscious.
my hottake would be that NG+ needs to offer more, like let you not need to reunlock party members(they start at your level though) and maybe some new scenes that are Ng+ exclusive beside the Velvet boss(maybe the 3rd semester could be a ng+ requirement)
Also to me Kasumi's social link 1-5 feels more like you're hanging out with a friend doing things with more so than appealing to someone who you help with something(drug testing, Shogi, Modeling, painting, etc), even though she has the picture perfect moments, through the social link she make mistakes at times like a normal person and through the story her perfect-like image falls apart till she awakens her persona
yeah that is a hot take, new scenes in NG+ would be said scenes not many people would actually see as persona is a very long game for a single playthrough and most people would leave it for a while before jumping back on
Intentionally locking story content behind NG+ is definitely a terrible idea.
What they should do for Persona 6 in my opinion is adding max bonus exp for every social link that have key items so the Velvet Room has more purpose in the early stages of the NG+ playthrough, also adding extra hard past story boss battles akin to P3P, while the rest should be like Persona 4's NG+.
ng+ needs difficulty scaling. whats the point of playing through the game again when im fighting level 1 enemies
@@Ghoats new game+ is motly for fun, the only real challenge is the velvet attendent boss fights
Also just having the protagonist be aware they're repeating the year, like in NG+ with subtle lines where they already seem to catch on or be aware of certain plot twists, things like that.
I do agree that people who want an entire main cast of college students are looking for something that Persona just isn't, but I do think that having a couple of college students in the main cast (not the main character) could be great. One of the late game main characters that you can go early on to get tutored or something, that way you can get to know them a little bit before they join. That could easily be a college student.
"I'm not dying for nyx to come back" good that was the point of the game
Honestly, I agree with you that Personal needs to stay High School. It's a perfect time for overcoming mental trauma and finding oneself, which a lot of Persona games really focus on with the Confidant system. And having it based with teenagers, which is a time when a lot of people struggle to find themselves and become their own adults, is absolutely perfect to me. Personally, I think those that want it to 'grow up' either want darker storylines like SMT has, or want to feel better about lewding characters, since they'd be adults instead of teenagers. But I've always thought it was perfect how it is, because I've always viewed it as the less dark and depressing SMT, perfect for teenagers. If they want a darker storyline, play SMT. To me, it's always been Pokemon for the young kids, Digimon for the preteens, Persona for the teens, and SMT for the adults (not saying that only these people should be playing these games, but these are the target demographics. I'm 34 and I play all of these and love them)
I don’t like that main party members can be romanced because it feels out of character the way they act during their social link events and then do a 180 during regular story events.
This could be fixed if they cared to.
timestamps!! (pls lmk if I made any mistakes)
pls remember that these are johne's opinions and remember to respect them!
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It's Okay To Dislike Old Persona [ 0:58 ]
Rearrange Aria Of The Soul [ 2:59 ]
- igor dance break at 4:27 -thank me later-
Persona Canon Is Not That Important [ 4:31 ]
Don't Bring Back Philemon And Nyarl [ 06:40 ]
- johne being down bad for Maya [ 7:29 ]
+ johne HAVING to clarify which Maya he's down bad for [ 7:35 ]
-smh johne even the shadow mayas are sexy cmon man-
Best And Worst Persona Designs [ 8:15 ]
P5 Strikers Is The Worst Spinoff [ 11:15 ]
Ai Ebihara Is One Of My Faves [ 12:37 ]
P5R Bosses Are Incredible [ 15:56 ]
Kasumi's Confidant Isn't Great [ 17:43 ]
A College Persona Game Is Dumb [ 18:39 ]
Silent Protags Are Good [ 20:50 ]
There Is No -sex- Mara In Persona... [ 22:06 ]
----
with all these aside, happy new year, johne! i agreed with some of these opinions, so i'm glad to think i wasn't the minority in any of them. i'm not saying which ones but i will emphasize your take on ai. ai indeed deserved better. the rest i'll leave as a myriad of mysteries lying about.
hope you have a good start to 2023
I also agree with a lot of these opinions.
i wonder what spicy takes josephmagnificent has for us today
I will not have Zenkichi slander
yeah I agree with you. I believe the closest the Persona has gotten to mentioning Mara is the last Elisabeth date in P3FES with "Even I am not blind to the significates of calling upon a gentleman in his own room" but because I can't read Japanese I don't know if that was in the OG or if it was just the localization, but yeah the Persona team has (imao) rightfully steered away from even mentioning Mara between S-Links and the MC.
Just wanna address the last three takes.
1. The college thing, I agree it should stick to high school but I honestly feel that the college thing wouldn't be all that bad as a direct sequel to the games. Cause its all about kids but I would love to see a story of these kids adapting to becoming adults and maybe even letting go of their personas as like a final farewell for them because they are no longer kids and have to actually become the part of society they often fight against. It wouldn't have that persona feel but I think it would be a great way of closing character arcs and having a proper resolution rather than the protagonist fucking off at the very end. This would also allow for atlas to reuse a setting at some point where there's a new cast but the old cast exists within that world and maybe even has a cameo.
2. Silent protanist is something I agree should remain because half the fun of the games is being able to choose your own reactions. But I kinda want the proganist to have a voice but its decided by your choices. I played persona 4 and I was fine with the protag having no voice but I recently started 5 and after hearing his small dialogue in like battles and such I kinda want more voice acting the protagnist without removing that silent protagnist feeling.
3. I don't think you should be able to have sex with romantic partners but I do feel they should delve more into the romances because although that isn't the focus, I think if your going to commit to it you might as well make it good, because they usually feel a bit half assed. You don't need to incorporate it into the story but maybe allow for you to maybe have more unique events especially past level 10 social link/confidant.
Can't wait to see your next tier list video and see P5 strikers below the P3/P5 dancing games.
About the college thing, I think you can still have an teenage demographic if your characters aren't teens. I mean, we played FF7 right? Most characters are over 20 years old. But also, I think some people say that as a form of compromise, like, they see this as a natural next step towards what they really want, which is an adult cast.
Aren’t Makoto and Haru technically in college during the events of P5 Strikers?
I did go to college and it was in that period when I really experienced becoming an adult, I think of myself when I was in high school as a child. I would like a Persona game with slightly older characters, just to have a more different and more varied setting, in which they could discuss topics they haven't discussed before. Not all character would need to be students though, there's potential in that idea. I agree with all the other things you said
My thoughts exactly. College students are pretty much the same with more responsibilities and struggles than high school students.
I agree, college would be a good setting for keeping all the characters together (going to the same campus, dormitories, studying, classes,...) while also opening up the opportunity to address more mature themes (living on your own, fears of what the future holds, working through bad experiences from high school,...)
@@lophostrixcristata6340 Exactly!
His first hot take was saying this game was for 13 year Olds 💀 looots of rlly fucked up adult implications in this game
It’s funny cause even with silent protagonist the dialogue choices give them a lot of personality and gives you an idea of how they would be if they weren’t silent
In regards to your last point, it is DEFINITELY not just the Persona fanbase who feels like that.
Honestly, and I know this is not something that is ever going to happen, but I would be perfectly happy if the fanservice (in more than just Persona, but Persona is certainly there) was toned down quite a bit. Romances are fine, beach scenes are okay (without certain tropes), and dirty jokes here or there are fine, but everything regarding those fanservice scenes just don't have the same impact to me anymore. Maybe it's just my changing humor, but I've heard the same shit over and over again, and now I find myself rolling my eyes everytime a "naked girl with pervy guys/misunderstanding" scene comes up. Or a klutz who constantly ends up in perverted scenes.
I don't know. It's just frustrating, especially since I know there are plenty of people who do like them. It's just my opinion in the end.
I'm so frustrated at the number of times boys are perving on Ann, her whole arc was about showing she's more than her appearance yet they focus too much on "she's hot and every boy is lewding on her, including the protagonists you are supposed to sympathize with". The whole "Yusuke wants to paint Ann naked" was annoying. She's the only character not being comfortable with her outfit at the beginning, despite it being supposed to represent her true self it seems mostly meant to put the hot girl in a sexy leather costume. Maybe that's because I'm female, but despite being bisexual I really don't like this kind of anime trope.
And that's suck because I like Ann, she's very interesting and even all the things she goes through because of the male gaze on her is interesting when it's well written, yet she's also sexualized from time to time.
nude paintings arent sexual and are a very very real thing@@jujublue4426
I want them to get rid of the fuckass hot springs scenes. They are NOT good and I'm glad P5 didn't have one.. except Strikers. ATLUS almost did us a favor
My hot takes, or just takes, would be:
1. Bring Tamaki back. We got to see what she did after SMT If in P1 and in P2 she became a devil summoner trainee. But after that we've heard nothing from her and the Kuzunoha Detective Agency. C'mon, she could've easily become a sort of reoccurring mentor figure for the latest group of persona users, keeping tabs on them for the detective agency just in case it turns out outside help is needed for dealing with the issues caused by the Collective Unconscious. You'd think the organization would be very interested in keeping an eye on such phenomenon, especially when considering it has two actual deities running everything. So basically I want the proper continuity to be addressed again, as the games are all still linked. There's potential for more stuff there, don't just throw it all away!
2. Super bosses should have unique boss themes. P2 EP has a neat super boss theme, why did the series P3 onwards just not have those anymore?
3. Ditch the wild card and let people have multiple personas again. Or keep the wild card so only one character is capable of using all arcanas, but let the rest also switch personas.
4. Bring difficulty back. And I mean difficulty, not just long grindy HP bars. Give us bosses that require strategy and proper understanding of the mechanics again, and don't be afraid to beat the hell out of the player for not paying attention. You have difficulty modes already, so make Hard actually mean something.
5. Tie character arcs better into the story. Heck, maybe even have social link progression affect parts of the story because those character arcs are integral to it! Just.. make character development properly matter again.
6. I'd like a little more nuance, topics with loads of grey area and exploration of those grey areas, of exploring different views and their ups and downs. But I get it, Persona is a more straight forward narrative about overcoming a more straight forward issue. It's not SMT. I still would like more complicated scenarios.
Big disagree one #3 fusing for a full party plus reserve personas is a pain
@@JohneAwesome Yeah I can see that being an issue, so maybe there could be some more streamlined system for that. Either way, I can see potential for more elaborate boss designs if one can change character weaknesses on the fly at least. So from gameplay perspective this could help with a lot of things. But fusing personas would need to be changed or it would become a massive pain.
@@Arexion5293 I feel like a middle ground would be to have each party member get a couple story personas that you can freely switch between. I dunno.
@@JohneAwesome C'mon that is easy to fix. Have multiple, almost endless supplies of fusion material and you have it. Just have for the ultimate personae be the case of story relevant events and social links and then, we have it fixed.
Disagree on Zenkichi. I like how they handled the bond he and the phantom thieves forged throughout the game where they start out rough and opposing of each other but eventually become allies with each other. Especially since their backgrounds makes them pretty opposed to each other.
I agree that Persona lends itself well to its High School setting, and there’s lots of ground for story telling. But I don’t think it’s wrong for people to want a fresh Persona game that takes place during adulthood. I also think the setting comes off a bit “anime trope-y”.
There’s so much about the human experience you don’t interact with during your teen years. It really feels like a missed opportunity. And we know The Persona Team can do it, because Catherine is a small taste of that kind of story.
And like, Altus can do whatever they want. If they don’t wanna make that game, and they don’t see a demographic in their older audience, so be it. But I think there could be an interesting game there.
Respect Zenkichi, his design and personas design is amazing, if there is a P5 Arena my Bloodborne Guy has to be in
Everyone knows that when the screen cuts to black they just wholesomely cuddle, maybe some light making out but clothes stay on.
I agree with you about Kasumi, another thing about her I wish was different is that her metaverse outfit wasn’t so similar to Jokers. I get it from a certain standpoint, how she looks up to Joker so her “ideal version of thief” would be based on it, but it almost feels lazy. Also, as someone who IS a twin, and an identical one at that, her entire story just feels very underdeveloped and basic. Yes, I know this is fictional, but at the end of the day, I would never want to be her. I feel as if it would be more interesting to the story if the actual Kasumi came back in same way and that was the whole major plot point rather than her try to be her sister, and maybe she could’ve addressed her grief in her confidant, cause losing a loved one is tough on anyone.
Yesyes, I've even seen some people make Sumi's Metaverse Outfit more look like her persona because so far from what we have seen, the Persona User's Outfit and the Persona have like similarity and for Sumi it kind of isn't there at all.
Showcasing some scenes in her family life after the accident would've certainly helped. Like for example Sumire trying to play the role of Kasumi AND herself in the same time and failing. Her father consoling her, etc.
Isn’t the whole point of Sumire is that she has the facade of seeming perfect when really she’s a girl with an insane inferiority complex?
I feel like Yoshizawa is perfect in the beginning on purpose, bc she definitely falls hard when you unlock the other half
That's because that was Sumire's perception of Kasumi. She thought her sister was perfect so it makes sense that she would come off that way before it's actually revealed who she is
i love strikers personally, and Zenkichi being forced is......definitely a take.
I find it funny that i disagreed with every take you had, except for the last few supposedly "super controversial" ones lol.
I also don't feel Kasumi is forced. Her ranks 1-5 are actually really great if you watch them after having the knowledge the 3rd Semester provides
Johne out here destroying people's head canons 🤣
Thanks Johnny for telling us your opinion and also I hope you and everyone in the comments has a wonderful New Year's!!!
Hope you too will have a wonderful New Year ahead of you Christopher!
@@Arcticanine thanks you too!!!!
@@christopherarenas1115 Thank you!
My hot take: the cast of 3 don't really seem like friends, just work buddies. They all have 1 or 2 people they care about but otherwise they never have any significant interactions outside of SEES duties and the vacation/field trip segments.
Bars on god
This isn’t a hot take at all, it’s just the fact and why they make for better characters. Everyone starts out as work buddies who happen to have this special power and eventually they become friends through hardship, rather than “Yo we just met, now we’re best friends and going to kill a god!”
this ain't a hot take, near the end of the game yukari says that they're not really best friends anyway
@@kame8132 That's after they lost their memories, of course after they are all amnesiac they don't remember being friends.
This is a fairly popular take but honestly I never understood it. I've worked plenty, not once have I wanted to take my coworkers to the beach, or attend a festival with them, or learn how to cook from them, and so on.
Also P3 has the cast just...hang out in the dorms, they don't make a big deal of it but you can just find Yukari and Akihiko on the couch together reading just because, Junpei and Mitsuru can just hang out talking about studying. When did you ever see Chie and Kanji be even close to each other outside of the group or Yukiko and Yusuke talk alone?
SEES always felt like friends in the casual moments to me in a way the others didn't. They just...hang out without you, they talk without you outside of their premade groups. They are friends outside of the big group moments.
Ok, so literally the next video I watched after this was Lady Virgilia’s video calling Strikers underrated….
Johne: 18:40 Persona should not be in college bc teenagers are finding themselves, fighting demons, etc…
Also Johne: 22:08 no segs bc teenagers don’t have segs
Truly the contrarian we don’t deserve o7
Fighting shadows is safer 🙂
okay, but using alex yiik as an example of a talking protag to prove your point about silent protags being better is like if i said "honestly i think burgers don't taste that good" and i threw a whole cow at you
I understand why the protags are silent. I just want more player agency. It doesn't feel like I have a relationship with any social link because all characters ever do is just talk at and around me. Let me make actual choices.
If I can add some takes on my own:
▪️When comes to romances, I definitely think you should be allowed to break up with the character if you rather romance someone else(as it’s realistic to not be together with the first person you dated as you both may not like each other like that way anymore).
▪️Also okay idk if this is a hot take, but I hate the fact even though it’s optional, that you can romance all the girls. Besides not being realistic(come on, not every girl in your friend group would be into you), I hate it how it ruins the friendship you made with your female party members throughout the story. Like how are we supposed to believe they’re sad to see you go when you just broke all their hearts!?
▪️I actually like Mishima and his social link. I think it’s nice development for him to realize he’s over his head a bit about using the thiefnet for selfish purposes and in the end, was able to change with no help from the protagonist(also going to write a novel good for him^^).
Yeah, breaking up would be less problematic and more realistic than ending up with a harem, and there's some characters who work better when they're not romantically into the protagonist :
- Kawakami, she's his freaking teacher and could work better as a mother figure.
- I like Futaba as a little sister even if she's not related to the protagonist and didn't grow up with him, that's mostly because of wholesome family moments with Sojiro like the single Christmas event.
- Any of the other adult love interests, seriously how it's more acceptable than gay relationships? Again it's Japan, but if the protagonist was a girl with adult men I bet people would find it more offending.
That's the aspect of the game that reminds you most the target audience is young straight men, as if boys could only see waifus in female characters. And that's sad such interesting characters are limited to becoming potential girlfriends
@@jujublue4426 I definitely agree with the adult women confidants shouldn’t be romance options. Like I love Kawakami and her entire social link as it a sweet arc how you’re able to help his poor woman be able to enjoy teaching others again after changing the hearts of her old student’s parents. She’s honestly more of a mother figure towards your character like how Sojiro is a father figure.
@@jujublue4426 It's actually crazy how protagonists will have more chemistry with characters they can't date but be able to date characters they essentially have zero chemistry with just because it would be a straight romance?? Also in regards to p5 if the whole idea is that they're misfits in Japan wouldn't some of them being gay actually make sense? The concept would certainly add an extra depth to these characters.
Maya a CHILD WHAT? ist she atleast 20 in P2IS/EP?
Would love to see more of johne in these types of videos
it does feel awkward being an adult playing as a hisghscooler sometimes. I can’t imagine persona without the high school setting but it would be nice to be able to play the game without having to be like “wait, I’m supposed to be like, 15 in this video game”
Happy New Year Johne! Bring on 2023!!
Glad to see another Ai Ebihara social link enjoyer!
im going to argue that while the rank 10 event with Aigis may not constitute sex, it is definitely sexual in nature
I don't think that people generally hate silent protagonists, it's just that for a game about forming relationships it's hard to actually feel a connection in the relationship if it feels very one-sided. It relies too much on self projection which explains why they've moved away from writing characters that people will hate immediately. Personally I think it would improve some aspects/view points of characters like Morgana who appear to constantly control the player's actions. If players view it more as Morgana just controlling Joker's actions instead of themselves then I think Morgana would be hated less.
Personally most of the relationships felt superficial and one-sided unless they were story driven (except Morgana that one felt like he was just talking to himself the whole time). I never really felt like the romance options were great partners because they all ended up falling in love with the main character usually because he saved/helped them and not because they enjoy each other's company.
You hit the nail on the head. But to me, I prefer feeling like a character in a world rather than a person who is controlling a character.
It is why I prefer voiced protags in RPGs even if I get less options.
Plus, they actually talk and have conversations with others and I forget that I am playing a game.
Plus, Plus, I think the idea that a player character has to be devoid of personality for the sake of the player's immersion is a bad idea. Especially if you're not letting players make an original character like Persona doesn't.
Ok, I love Strikers just because I like Sophia and Zenkichi’s personalities, but I do agree that a P5 game is the worst Persona spin off, and that’s because it’s Tactica
Dude, all you have to do to trigger the Persona fanbase is tell them who the "best girl" is, than the fanbase erupts into a civil war
My hot take that I never knew was a hot take until recently, Persona 5's way of doing palaces is infinitely better than Persona 3's. A more straightforward but heavily stylized and intentionally designed dungeon with a theme can tie itself with the story and by being more linear it allows the developers to be far more deliberate. It's weird that I see people talk all the time about how Persona 3 is better and cite the dungeon crawling as the primary reason.
Another hot take: Persona is not Dark Souls, it doesn't have to be so difficult that most people can't reach the end, it needs to provide enough difficulty to push back and force you to think, but not frustrate. It's a JRPG series, the story is the most important. Seen so many people praise Persona 3 because it's apparently super ultra difficult and crushes hours of work if you make 1 mistake (don't know the validity, never played 3). Gamers these days are too obsessed with thinking that games need to be impossible, every boss needs to take hours to weeks of challenging to finally defeat, every encounter must be capable of destroying you, and that you must be wrestling your controller as you play, and every advantage you give yourself robs you of the experience because difficulty is everything.
I do think the high-school setting does kind of limit design because Japanese highschools have a super generic layout and look to them, but the issue is, Japanese colleges aren't exactly better. It would be cool if it had the layout you could see in a North American technology college, but ye, the series is probably better left in highschool to fit the themes of Persona.
HARD YES on the silent protagonist thing. i ADORE silent protags because heck you, they ARE their own characters. Ren doesn't feel like a complete blank slate at all. I've only played 5 so far so I don't accurately know how he compares to...Boy with Earring..., Tatsuya, Maya, Makoto, Kotone, or Yu, but imo he's really well done. unrelated but Yusuke is best p5 boy imo
I have always wondered what sort of wild opinions you have since you dont express during walkthroughs too much. I was half wrong i guess. Would love to see more vids like this.
Happy New year Mr Awesome. Thank you for taking me through another year
Thank you nemesis, happy new year I love reading your comments on my videos :)
@@JohneAwesome one thing I appreciate about Persona is that it isn't complicated and is an easy story. I wish Kingdom Hearts and Blazblue was the same
Johnny awesome I would love to see that more videos like this for the next year.
late to the video but i think kasumi was intentionally written to seem perfect because it makes the player suspect of her and has her characters twist hit so much harder
Hey its the official lore representative from atlus you were referring to, yes Hatsune Miku is appearing in DeSu3
Oh nah, that P5 Strikers take was a bad one.
I'm pretty indifferent to most of these takes, most seeming pretty neutral rather than hot.
Honestly, the only one that I disagree with is about Strikers and I think that just comes down to different tastes (although you are right about the final boss of Strikers being a copy of Yaldabaoth, no one is gonna deny or defend that).
I absolutely agree with the no mara after maxing a bond, because that's honestly just unnecessary especially since the protag is typically like 16-17. And I also agree that Persona doesn't need to be in Collage or Workplace environment to evolve future games, like sure, it'd be cool and they could tackle different subject matter but it's not necessary. I think the youth of these characters honestly makes the themes & ideas Persona games present hit so much harder, it certainly does for Persona 3 & 5.
With the "no mara" thing I'm indifferent towards it because that's a normal thing at that age, tons of people were doing it when I was in school and even after I got out of school my younger cousins and would always talk about some of them or other people who also do that. So I don't see the big issue tbh
I feel like Kasumi's confidant is very misleading. It's barely an actual confidant, it's practically automatic and has no bumps, it just sets up her plot and buildup only to fizzle out in the finale when we have two other "new" characters (i am counting akechi as new cause we learn a lot more about him) that completely steal the show both before and after Kasumi's arc concludes. I like her, but i cannot find myself to love her character. She is a very fine milquetoast that i can somewhat enjoy every day. But nothing more.
I honestly hate the sexualization of several characters on top of a high school student dating someone way above his age [Is that just me?] Though I feel like many of the persona 5 girls cast was a bit meh in terms of their personality at least, The one i liked the most was Haru and she got the least amount of screentime
Definitely agree, having a high school student dating someone probably twice his age is just icky to me. In particular because for p5 it conflicts so fundamentally with the ideas of the Kamoshida arc. Also Haru best girl
Id love to see a highlight reel of Persona 5. Please Johne, please? I love the funny noises you do.
I was expecting persona HOT CAKES!!!
Happy New Year Comrade!
I think the big reason you labeled Persona 5 Striker, it because the return of the Hot Spring scene we ultimately despise the most in this game.
It's also because of the final dungeon and some jokes from P5 that it feels underwhelming. I did like the game's attempt at Jails and the bosses and the mechanics.
7:37 “No, not her. She’s a child.”
Been a hot minute since I last check Persona 2 lore, I thought Maya in 2 was in her early 20s and not in her teens unlike the rest teammate who are in the first persona 2 game? I might be misremembering that.
I thought she was a just year older than Tasuya but you are right
I think a college persona would be cool if it was first year college, as someone who just went through that, you're still young, and you're still a growing person who is dealing with the stresses of academic life, I think social links would be really interesting because you could have friends that are a year younger than you and still in high school, and help them through the stresses of going to college (or doing something else) next year, and friends a year older than you who can help you through your first year in this foreign landscape (maybe increasing your knowledge stat along the way). Ik it's almost definitely not gonna happen, but I think being a young person (not even an adult) in college could have the potential to be a really good persona game. I also think that it would make the time management a lot more interesting, since attendance isn't mandatory in a lot of different universities, you could choose between going to a lecture or spending time with friends
Homie called a grown woman a kid
I Agree With The Silent Protagonist Decisions, However I'd Like It So In The Spin Off They Have Their Own Personality.
On the silent protagonist topic, I think it would be interesting if they took it in a direction similar to the god eater games. In those games, the protagonist is mostly silent, but at certain very important moments in the story, you hear your character speak. It really added weight to some of those moments for me. And it wouldn’t be too different from what they have already done. For example, Joker has multiple voice lines in gameplay and a few lines in the anime cutscenes.
Although, I will say taking it the degree of someone like Shez from fire emblem 3 hopes would be too far, because Shez is a much more defined character compared to Joker, Yu, or Makoto.
That’s my take on this anyway. I think I might’ve written a bit too much.
3:04 PLEASE, i lovelovelove all the different arrangements and if p6 just has the same one from p3 again I'll be so disappointed
Yes, it is confirmed that the Soul hackers game are indeed part of the Persona universe
I disagree with you that P5S is bad but I respect your opinion, what I don’t respect is calling it the worst Persona spin-off, as that is utter hyperbole when, although I like them, the P3/5 Dancing games certainly endure that title.
Huh, I didn’t realize I’ve watched this video, well despite me being at an age where I thought using big words made me sound older when I made that comment, I stand by it
OoooOOOO That WAS some hot takes! I'm fully on-board with the "you're not the demographic???" one about why it should not be set in college. And good luck with the Japanese learning! If you have a goal to shoot for - reading original JP scripts for visual novels being one - you'll be able to keep it up for the long term :)
Most RPG fans prefer a silent protagonist, what people are asking for is for characters that actually have dialogue to be voiced, especially since A LOT of these games are story. The reason games like this have mostly no voice acting for in game dialogue and reuse little voice lines is to save on space in the game, but that's kind of archaic nowadays. Modern game consoles can handle being fully voiced, I think Fire Emblem Three Houses helped a lot of people realize that. And if the Switch can handle it, anything can.