You were the chosen one, Vallun! It was said that you would destroy other classes, not join them! Asking for buffs on thieves, not exploiting their weaknesses!
I have noticed that power revs with shiro can be death to thieves in group fights because they are one of the only classes that can keep up with a thief, and thus kill their sustain and force them to use initiative to escape the heavy melee power of revs.
Great video Vallun. It was good to learn a version of winning is just chasing them away, but is a sign the mobility balance isn't quite right for the class.
I can count on one hand the times I've actually managed to get kills on thieves 1v1 when roaming in wvw. Most of the time when I see a thief I'm pretty much dead, but at least nowadays I'm taking longer to go down than before, which is progress, I guess. Usually I just have to zerg them down, but then there's some fuckin Rambo thieves who can dodge entire zergs for minutes on end and really humiliate anyone that chases them too far. It probably doesn't help that my only experience with thief in a PVP scenario is the occasional time where I'll meme with a staff DD. It can be surprisingly effective, sometimes, but it's also not something you see often (likely for good reason, and probably why it's not mentioned in this video). Thanks for the video!
Very informative. I play a Soulbeast, but I have wasted time fighting a thief before, and sure I won, but it wasn't worth it. Really being a returning player, trying to catch up on the meta which seems heavily condi base. It really is true though if you survive the burst of a thief, they tend to disengage to reset, this is when I use "Sick Em" which stops them from stealthing for 9 seconds giving me time to burst them down with Rapid Fire, and interrupt their heals.
If you want to stretch out your threat to thieves, don't use sic em and rapid fire at the same time. Use either one when you see them create a smoke field just before they use it to stealth. Rapid fire tracks them if you start it before they stealth, which shows you where they're moving and forcing them to dodge or to close on you. Use sic em when rapid fire is on cool down. By not using them together, you get a bigger window. Plus, if you do use them together, they can use dancing daggers when you rapid fire which wastes a bunch of your smaller window.
15:45 actually if a thief go out of range they will not return to their return spot but they will return the 900 range towards the return spot.. sometimes less accurate.. This is something to consider when they kite you far away from their return. Which they will often do to be less obviouse
the navmesh is a nav mess =/ one of the biggest frustrations of a thief.. But yea I always thought if it were 2 different meshes it doesn't work, which is very often the case, but maybe not always since it's actually nav meshes. Would be better if we could actually see them, as they didn't do a great job at it.
I use your Unicorn hunter against a thief today. We didn't have a thief but they did and it was constantly decapping close on coliseum. At one point I was fed up and decided to go close to face the thief. For almost a minute and a half I countered the thief in such an unexpected way... I was almost perma stealth on my dragon hunter XD You can't hit what you can't see. Eventually, the thief posted in normal chat "What am I doing here" and went away. I thought it was absolutely brilliant that I played the thief's own game against it.
Thx for the vid! An interesting counter against Dagger Storm elite seems to be the shield 4 or 5 of an engi, which is a reflect resp. retaliatory CC. I'm not 100% sure about it, but it seems to Interrupt the thief, if he hits the shields.
You forgot to mention that dagger Strom can be interrupted . Things like DH pull , gaurdian staff 5 , necro fear wall , shocking aura , engi shield 5 can interrupt dagger Strom.(I might have forgotten few more skills)
I just started back up and I still play core Thief D/D short bow. Is that completely non-viable now? I feel like it is very good still but I have not really tried any Elite Classes yet. Unless you play ranked PvP your chances of running into a very good player is pretty uncommon so it is hard to tell.
@@Vallun I only changed my jewelry to marauder but still use the the "Glass Cannon" build for thief. I did the Mara because of all the condition damage in the expansion. WvW I ran D/P but I have not played WvW since coming back yet. I want to but I only played PvP back in the day. Got to level 10 and then jumped into WvW and PvP to lived there. Now I am trying to actual play in the Living World. Kin of hard with thief. So I even created a new class Revenant S/S and GS(Elite) to do that. I am having a blast but I know I am not good enough for any competitive gameplay now. I have really only been soloing except for the world events I run into. Since you don't need to get invited to group anymore you just go along with the "zerge". I need to make some friends lol. I just thought of this but I don't even know what server I am on lol. I just created a character in the first server I just happen to log on. P.S. I lost my other account because 5 years away and lost email address.
I'm just going to take a sec to point out that even the classes thief naturally counter can still beat a thief by landing a good burst(power mesmers), or by revealing(heralds) or proper use of AoEs and/or just being too tanky for the thief to bother. Honestly the only build I could see consistently losing to thieves would be a condi mesmers. Thieves, likewise, have an array of tools to remove the defenses and kill an opponent.As a thief main, engineers, spellbreakers and rangers(especially if they get the jump on me) have definitely given me a lot of trouble, but can definitely be kited and outplayed. I've just not reached that level of skill yet. so yeah. to all those complaining about thief, whether that be to buff or to nerf it - just watch the video. don't think anyone could make it any more clear where exactly thief is in terms of pvp/wvw.
Stop lying thief is to strong and will never be balanced because of stealth and initiative system SA invite perma stealth playstyle, only thing more op is Longbow Soulbeast 1 shot builds and in wvw Zergs Herald Hammer because stupid hammer weapon op. Thief needs more nerfs till it dies in 2 hits always to give "pro" players a challenge this is only beginning of road of nerfs for thief honestly they should just remove stealth from game.
The matchups section is by no means a hard win or loss. Its just to show advantages. You can always beat anyone from any class because of rotations, comps, or just purely outplay. I often destroy thieves no matter what class I play because I main thief and I know exactly how to play against them. The purpose of the video isnt to say you lose the matchup its to identify why classes have advantages or disadvantages, to show thief stengths and weaknesses for you to play around, and what to avoid because of those advantages and disadvantages. for example if im a mesmer i know i cant escape a thief > stay with your team, use terrain, and dont try to out run them. Thats how you beat every class as any class, playing to your strengths and their weaknesses
@@Vallun I know, that's exactly what I was pointing out. yet, as these two kind gentlemen in the replies have demonstrated, nobody bothers or is going to bother learning thief's weaknesses and playbook, they're just going to sit and complain all day long. thief mains worrying about this video for nothing xD
well then im stuck making 100 videos because i need to do a video for each class vs the other, by the time i finish that series its gonna be outdated XD
I mean (disclaimer havent seen the entire vid yet), whats kinda funny is that as reaper i always kinda struggled against thiefes... And now almost 2 days ago i started playing weaver and tried 1v1ing my friends (who main thief) and i can actually say even without having seen such a video i was able to stomp them pretty clean xD the skill explanation is nice though :P so i can kill them faster and dont run off D:
I feel like u need to structure these Videos more. Dont get me wrong its decently made. But seeing how u jumped from heal skills to utility skills for no real reason without covering all heal skills first Shows that u just explain whatever comes to mind... Ur Videos are still helpful but id imagine they would Profit alot from having a basic outline ot structure so as to not repeat urself and to get all the necessary and none of the needless Information across. E.g. start with thief heal skills that arent Used in pvp. So as to get the easy things out the way. Then go into the pvp heals then into why those are so much Used compared to pve. Tie in the class identity concept. Then go over to the other abilitys. Also the only class mechanic of thief is steal? Initiative would like to have a word. U just jumped around randomly in the first 7 Minutes.
I don't think that it was random, but maybe thats because I edited it all together from the viewpoint of how to play AGAINST thief and youre looking for a video detailing everything about a thief
@@Vallun ty for Telling me what i am looking for. Always a good start. As i recall u started this series with the words of how to play as and against class "x" And while u mention alot to counter a class which is again extrmely helpful there are some things that u outright missed that would help both perspectives. For example u didnt mention what Initiative is or how it works until u were talking about smokescreen HS combo. And even then did u not explain the concept at all. Of course Initiative is an easy to grasp concept so there might not be much explaining needed. In any case u couldve introduced the concept earlier so as to make talking about skills/investment/ counterplayability easier to understand since thief has no real cooldown on his weapon skills and it all comes back around to Initiativemanagement.(i like to count heartseekers in a mirror match since its easy math and a clear Animation to look out for. So i know After 3 hs the thief is almost out and i can commit without getting blinded etc. --> counterplay) Also i can only say these things about this Video because i played the class enough to notice it. There might have been similar issues with ur other class Videos. All this to say i Think ur quality and overall presentation of the Video would improve if u had at least an outline of what to present in which order and how. Also u shouldnt forget that u, as a thief Player and expirienced gw2 player might know things that are not so clear or easy to understand for beginning Players. Concepts which u Jump over because u internalised them so much u dont realise they need explaining --> initiative
@@slashersoul2380 You are right that I gloss over some things or imply some things because ive internalized them, and yes the initiative system couldve probably be explained better. To me playing around the initiative system just means that all skills share the same cooldown so if I play around situations where they will use certain skills it will add up to playing around their skill flow. There are of course other videos I offer on how to play thief if you want, but saying the rest of the video was unstructured based off of that? IDK
@@Vallun i never said the Rest of the Video. I said the first 7 Minutes came off to me as unstructered. Especially because with ele and guard u explained every heal skill in great Detail and with thief u started with the 2 arguably most impactful ones and just ignored the rest. It felt different from the 2 Videos before it especially in the beginning. After or around Minute 7 or 8 it seemed to habe its Rhythm back with going over the different builds/weapon playstiles etc. Thats just me though. And i wasnt trying to hurt of offend u. And i probably couldve worded it More clearly and less aggressiv. In any case i just wanted to leave constructiv critism.
@@slashersoul2380 I did try a different style for this video where I explain things in game at the same time im recording so i may have been spaced out a bit more, whereas for guardian and ele I recorded the voice and the in game separately. My issue with that method was that it didnt always line up what I was doing with what I was saying, but doing them at the same time might mean I was doing nothing at certain times when I was explaining an idea and there was nothing more to show. I didn't take it as offense, I like the criticism and will definitely remember it for later, but for Ele I only covered one of their heal skills because thats the only one you can play around. The rest are just normal heal skills with general counterplay of seeing blue light and interrupting, so I was trying to keep it organized to just things that you can counterplay and not just things they will do.
haha way to completely ignore dd d/d condi thief (and core stealth dd condi), which is way better than p/d condi... Why does everybody play p/d I don't know.. cuz dd is just too much skill 3 and not much else? maybe.. but then again pd is just repeater... but still d/d is way better ... and now after the update we even have d/p condi thief or hybrid condi / power thief... So either way, get your cleanses ready and cleanse poison before you heal ;-)
need my dissertations worth of brain space to store all information I need to not be dead weight in GW2 pvp. Bruh... my friends told me I'd get to mash buttons and fight people what's all this fighting game mechanics in my mmorpg pvp.
some who really knows how to play it is just as annoying as ever. Specc'd myself so i can apply as much revealed as possible, ran into a vanilla thief that was somehow just clearing revealed which is as someone who doesnt main thief, is very new to me.
they do have damage, but the way the initiative system is made, the more they invest in damage the lower their mobility goes. also, after some sb5 nerfs, I'm pretty sure some of the speedier classes could catch thief if they have movement skills up
@@garuda4361 exactly, a GOOD thief. U know how many good thiefs there are? Not a lot. But it goes to say for every class. A good this and that can oneshot anyone and can destroy any counter.
You were the chosen one, Vallun! It was said that you would destroy other classes, not join them! Asking for buffs on thieves, not exploiting their weaknesses!
Facts
I can see there is so much effort put into making these content. Kudos to u
Thiefs are one of the classes i struggle most, thanks for this video
I have noticed that power revs with shiro can be death to thieves in group fights because they are one of the only classes that can keep up with a thief, and thus kill their sustain and force them to use initiative to escape the heavy melee power of revs.
i used the video to learn thief instead of how to play against thief works as good thanks for the content
Great video Vallun. It was good to learn a version of winning is just chasing them away, but is a sign the mobility balance isn't quite right for the class.
I can count on one hand the times I've actually managed to get kills on thieves 1v1 when roaming in wvw. Most of the time when I see a thief I'm pretty much dead, but at least nowadays I'm taking longer to go down than before, which is progress, I guess. Usually I just have to zerg them down, but then there's some fuckin Rambo thieves who can dodge entire zergs for minutes on end and really humiliate anyone that chases them too far.
It probably doesn't help that my only experience with thief in a PVP scenario is the occasional time where I'll meme with a staff DD. It can be surprisingly effective, sometimes, but it's also not something you see often (likely for good reason, and probably why it's not mentioned in this video).
Thanks for the video!
Very informative. I play a Soulbeast, but I have wasted time fighting a thief before, and sure I won, but it wasn't worth it. Really being a returning player, trying to catch up on the meta which seems heavily condi base. It really is true though if you survive the burst of a thief, they tend to disengage to reset, this is when I use "Sick Em" which stops them from stealthing for 9 seconds giving me time to burst them down with Rapid Fire, and interrupt their heals.
If you want to stretch out your threat to thieves, don't use sic em and rapid fire at the same time. Use either one when you see them create a smoke field just before they use it to stealth. Rapid fire tracks them if you start it before they stealth, which shows you where they're moving and forcing them to dodge or to close on you. Use sic em when rapid fire is on cool down.
By not using them together, you get a bigger window. Plus, if you do use them together, they can use dancing daggers when you rapid fire which wastes a bunch of your smaller window.
how does one counter something that is uncounterable
15:45 actually if a thief go out of range they will not return to their return spot but they will return the 900 range towards the return spot.. sometimes less accurate.. This is something to consider when they kite you far away from their return. Which they will often do to be less obviouse
I'm gonna recommend this to anyone
NavMesh part was huge!
the navmesh is a nav mess =/ one of the biggest frustrations of a thief.. But yea I always thought if it were 2 different meshes it doesn't work, which is very often the case, but maybe not always since it's actually nav meshes. Would be better if we could actually see them, as they didn't do a great job at it.
I use your Unicorn hunter against a thief today. We didn't have a thief but they did and it was constantly decapping close on coliseum. At one point I was fed up and decided to go close to face the thief. For almost a minute and a half I countered the thief in such an unexpected way... I was almost perma stealth on my dragon hunter XD You can't hit what you can't see. Eventually, the thief posted in normal chat "What am I doing here" and went away. I thought it was absolutely brilliant that I played the thief's own game against it.
Thx for the vid! An interesting counter against Dagger Storm elite seems to be the shield 4 or 5 of an engi, which is a reflect resp. retaliatory CC. I'm not 100% sure about it, but it seems to Interrupt the thief, if he hits the shields.
thanks vall, needed this
You forgot to mention that dagger Strom can be interrupted . Things like DH pull , gaurdian staff 5 , necro fear wall , shocking aura , engi shield 5 can interrupt dagger Strom.(I might have forgotten few more skills)
ranger dog can stop them too but you have hope AI won't F it up or smoke scale or that trap i forget the name. or the wolf F2 fear skill.
I just started back up and I still play core Thief D/D short bow. Is that completely non-viable now? I feel like it is very good still but I have not really tried any Elite Classes yet. Unless you play ranked PvP your chances of running into a very good player is pretty uncommon so it is hard to tell.
guildjen.com for the current builds, sounds like you were playing some ancient build
@@Vallun I only changed my jewelry to marauder but still use the the "Glass Cannon" build for thief. I did the Mara because of all the condition damage in the expansion. WvW I ran D/P but I have not played WvW since coming back yet. I want to but I only played PvP back in the day. Got to level 10 and then jumped into WvW and PvP to lived there. Now I am trying to actual play in the Living World. Kin of hard with thief. So I even created a new class Revenant S/S and GS(Elite) to do that. I am having a blast but I know I am not good enough for any competitive gameplay now. I have really only been soloing except for the world events I run into. Since you don't need to get invited to group anymore you just go along with the "zerge". I need to make some friends lol. I just thought of this but I don't even know what server I am on lol. I just created a character in the first server I just happen to log on. P.S. I lost my other account because 5 years away and lost email address.
The Smash Brothers Melee background music gives me nostalgia.
great explanation, great series, keep it up plez. you are really doing a great job.
will you be making mirror match up series in near future?
When a thief or any class goes into stealth, does it stop you from targeting them (I.e. you have to retarget them every time they stealth)?
yes
Steal is the only class mechanic? How about all of that evading and invisibility you talked about earlier
class mechanic is your f abilities. Stealth and evades are available on every other class
That i call good content, way better than all the expose and drama stuff
10/10 Video. I really needed this.
What about the Elementalist, how are the matchups?
Mesmer soon? These are super great :D especially for someone like me who really only plays Warrior
Awesome, thank you.
vallun can u make a vid on jump spots?
One of my favorite smash bros stage themes
I go ignore thief. Recap home node and then thief reappears to burst me back to respawn in 2 seconds fun
I'm just going to take a sec to point out that even the classes thief naturally counter can still beat a thief by landing a good burst(power mesmers), or by revealing(heralds) or proper use of AoEs and/or just being too tanky for the thief to bother. Honestly the only build I could see consistently losing to thieves would be a condi mesmers.
Thieves, likewise, have an array of tools to remove the defenses and kill an opponent.As a thief main, engineers, spellbreakers and rangers(especially if they get the jump on me) have definitely given me a lot of trouble, but can definitely be kited and outplayed. I've just not reached that level of skill yet.
so yeah. to all those complaining about thief, whether that be to buff or to nerf it - just watch the video. don't think anyone could make it any more clear where exactly thief is in terms of pvp/wvw.
Stop lying thief is to strong and will never be balanced because of stealth and initiative system SA invite perma stealth playstyle, only thing more op is Longbow Soulbeast 1 shot builds and in wvw Zergs Herald Hammer because stupid hammer weapon op. Thief needs more nerfs till it dies in 2 hits always to give "pro" players a challenge this is only beginning of road of nerfs for thief honestly they should just remove stealth from game.
The matchups section is by no means a hard win or loss. Its just to show advantages. You can always beat anyone from any class because of rotations, comps, or just purely outplay. I often destroy thieves no matter what class I play because I main thief and I know exactly how to play against them. The purpose of the video isnt to say you lose the matchup its to identify why classes have advantages or disadvantages, to show thief stengths and weaknesses for you to play around, and what to avoid because of those advantages and disadvantages. for example if im a mesmer i know i cant escape a thief > stay with your team, use terrain, and dont try to out run them. Thats how you beat every class as any class, playing to your strengths and their weaknesses
@@nightcorequeen1074 thiefs can't win fights but are too good at running away, nerf pls
@@Vallun I know, that's exactly what I was pointing out. yet, as these two kind gentlemen in the replies have demonstrated, nobody bothers or is going to bother learning thief's weaknesses and playbook, they're just going to sit and complain all day long. thief mains worrying about this video for nothing xD
@@irobot9250 honestly they could be mesmer mains
4:10 This saved my life
"engineers counter thief"
proceeds to destroy a holo 1v1
19:35 already nerved. It will reveal now before it hits
The deadeye elite specialization of thief is an annoying ability 😐
Is this the Zelda II temple theme? * - *
Finally
Get rid of this, can’t have people knowing this 😂
Nice tips vallun how bout u make a video using a warrior dueling a thief or in rank pvp with the likes of noody or any good players
well then im stuck making 100 videos because i need to do a video for each class vs the other, by the time i finish that series its gonna be outdated XD
@@Vallun then u redo all of them! Infinite content :D
I mean (disclaimer havent seen the entire vid yet), whats kinda funny is that as reaper i always kinda struggled against thiefes... And now almost 2 days ago i started playing weaver and tried 1v1ing my friends (who main thief) and i can actually say even without having seen such a video i was able to stomp them pretty clean xD the skill explanation is nice though :P so i can kill them faster and dont run off D:
*ignores ele in matchups * xD
u can dodge their blind frm the field of black powder
you know what, i think its time to finally do it
@@Vallun wht?
@@NekkoNubcakes sorry i was replying to someone who asked me to do a kite spots video i guess i clicked the wrong one lol
@@Vallun lol i thnk i was that same person but guess u just replied on the wrng comment got confused to on thr response lol
Still missing some builds .)
I feel like u need to structure these Videos more. Dont get me wrong its decently made. But seeing how u jumped from heal skills to utility skills for no real reason without covering all heal skills first Shows that u just explain whatever comes to mind...
Ur Videos are still helpful but id imagine they would Profit alot from having a basic outline ot structure so as to not repeat urself and to get all the necessary and none of the needless Information across. E.g. start with thief heal skills that arent Used in pvp. So as to get the easy things out the way. Then go into the pvp heals then into why those are so much Used compared to pve. Tie in the class identity concept. Then go over to the other abilitys. Also the only class mechanic of thief is steal? Initiative would like to have a word.
U just jumped around randomly in the first 7 Minutes.
I don't think that it was random, but maybe thats because I edited it all together from the viewpoint of how to play AGAINST thief and youre looking for a video detailing everything about a thief
@@Vallun ty for Telling me what i am looking for. Always a good start.
As i recall u started this series with the words of how to play as and against class "x"
And while u mention alot to counter a class which is again extrmely helpful there are some things that u outright missed that would help both perspectives. For example u didnt mention what Initiative is or how it works until u were talking about smokescreen HS combo. And even then did u not explain the concept at all. Of course Initiative is an easy to grasp concept so there might not be much explaining needed. In any case u couldve introduced the concept earlier so as to make talking about skills/investment/ counterplayability easier to understand since thief has no real cooldown on his weapon skills and it all comes back around to Initiativemanagement.(i like to count heartseekers in a mirror match since its easy math and a clear Animation to look out for. So i know After 3 hs the thief is almost out and i can commit without getting blinded etc. --> counterplay)
Also i can only say these things about this Video because i played the class enough to notice it. There might have been similar issues with ur other class Videos.
All this to say i Think ur quality and overall presentation of the Video would improve if u had at least an outline of what to present in which order and how.
Also u shouldnt forget that u, as a thief Player and expirienced gw2 player might know things that are not so clear or easy to understand for beginning Players. Concepts which u Jump over because u internalised them so much u dont realise they need explaining --> initiative
@@slashersoul2380 You are right that I gloss over some things or imply some things because ive internalized them, and yes the initiative system couldve probably be explained better. To me playing around the initiative system just means that all skills share the same cooldown so if I play around situations where they will use certain skills it will add up to playing around their skill flow. There are of course other videos I offer on how to play thief if you want, but saying the rest of the video was unstructured based off of that? IDK
@@Vallun i never said the Rest of the Video. I said the first 7 Minutes came off to me as unstructered.
Especially because with ele and guard u explained every heal skill in great Detail and with thief u started with the 2 arguably most impactful ones and just ignored the rest.
It felt different from the 2 Videos before it especially in the beginning. After or around Minute 7 or 8 it seemed to habe its Rhythm back with going over the different builds/weapon playstiles etc.
Thats just me though. And i wasnt trying to hurt of offend u. And i probably couldve worded it More clearly and less aggressiv. In any case i just wanted to leave constructiv critism.
@@slashersoul2380 I did try a different style for this video where I explain things in game at the same time im recording so i may have been spaced out a bit more, whereas for guardian and ele I recorded the voice and the in game separately. My issue with that method was that it didnt always line up what I was doing with what I was saying, but doing them at the same time might mean I was doing nothing at certain times when I was explaining an idea and there was nothing more to show. I didn't take it as offense, I like the criticism and will definitely remember it for later, but for Ele I only covered one of their heal skills because thats the only one you can play around. The rest are just normal heal skills with general counterplay of seeing blue light and interrupting, so I was trying to keep it organized to just things that you can counterplay and not just things they will do.
Geez Vallun, all these thirsty ladies in the comments 0.o
I get offended when a thief tries to 1v1 me lol
this is all lies, lies and propoganda, real thieves don't play like this at all ever
*stop showing them how to kill meeee*
24:45 power or condi rangers do not counter condi d/d thieves ;-) not in a 1v1 at least. But against 2 rangers your f$#%d
haha way to completely ignore dd d/d condi thief (and core stealth dd condi), which is way better than p/d condi... Why does everybody play p/d I don't know.. cuz dd is just too much skill 3 and not much else? maybe.. but then again pd is just repeater... but still d/d is way better ... and now after the update we even have d/p condi thief or hybrid condi / power thief... So either way, get your cleanses ready and cleanse poison before you heal ;-)
Haha relax
@@jdielaras WHAAAAAAAAAAAA RAGEEEEEEEEEE.... i'm relaxed .......... REVENGEEEEEEEEEEEE ....... just chillin
Thief is so Sheik.
need my dissertations worth of brain space to store all information I need to not be dead weight in GW2 pvp. Bruh... my friends told me I'd get to mash buttons and fight people what's all this fighting game mechanics in my mmorpg pvp.
Play core necro minionmancer and you can do that haha
Ez solution. Just quit the game if you are playing for pvp and wvw
thief shouldn't exist period
Running away from them or they run away from you isn't winning. Never was. Delete that abomination of a class from GW2 finally.
Thief Now - shitty stealth and other classes have better ones
some who really knows how to play it is just as annoying as ever. Specc'd myself so i can apply as much revealed as possible, ran into a vanilla thief that was somehow just clearing revealed which is as someone who doesnt main thief, is very new to me.
Thieves: 4 dodges, insane mobility, and infinite stealth. So balanced 😂. Unless you're on a class with reveal, or blind spam, you're screwed
insane mobility, no dmg, no health, it's pretty balanced
they do have damage, but the way the initiative system is made, the more they invest in damage the lower their mobility goes. also, after some sb5 nerfs, I'm pretty sure some of the speedier classes could catch thief if they have movement skills up
@@irobot9250 every class has dmg, thief is just on the lower end
@@chaoky lower end? A good thief can kill someone in 2 seconds
@@garuda4361 exactly, a GOOD thief. U know how many good thiefs there are? Not a lot. But it goes to say for every class. A good this and that can oneshot anyone and can destroy any counter.