I’ve owned 7 of them: ‘77 R100/7, ‘85K100RS, ‘94 R100R Mystic, ‘04 R1200C (sold), ‘08 R1200R, ‘12 R1200R, and ‘13 R1200RT. I do all my own service, the R100/7 has over 100k miles, the ‘08 R1200R has over 80k miles, the R100R and other R1200R both have over 40k. I have nothing but positive things to say, love the performance, love the comfort, have had good luck with reliability.
The dealership is a big part of the experience for many of us. I have owned 2 beemers in the last 15 years and loved the riding experience. I hated the terrible attitudes at the service departments at the two dealerships closest to me. I had a 2009 R1200GS Adv that was subject to multiple recalls and BMW will only pay for recall service at their dealers. I have a really good independent shop near me run by a semi-retired BMW master mechanic and I could not use him for any of the recalls. I have a 2021 Africa Twin now that I purchased from a small family owned dealership with a great service department and staff that understand what customer service should be. I'm sure there are some good BMW dealers out there - just not within 60 miles of where I live.
Yeah, had a minor accident and have to wait 2 weeks just to drop the bike off for an estimate.. which took another week. They estimated it for almost every panel on the bike and all we wanted was the front end fixed. Insurance company and I both tried to get the dealership to just fix the front -- the rest was just 10 years worth of commuting. So yeah, the bike got totalled out and and I bought a Yamaha. It was going to take months to fix it too, so pretty sure they just didn't want to deal with it. THEY had to know what the bike was "worth" and what insurance would pay, after all. The BMW I had before that (2000 K1200LTC) they made me pay to replace the clutch under warranty -- said it was my "overclutching" that caused it to fail at 18 months and 10K miles... I really liked a new bike of theirs, but decided I didn't want to deal with BMW service anymore.
I just traded my R1250GS for a new Africa Twin Adventure Sports because my local BMW dealer didn't want to deal with selling my imported GS when I wanted to upgrade to the GS Adventure. Went over to Honda and they had no such trouble. Traded out of spite to not give the BMW dealer my service business anymore. Loving the ATAS off-pavement now, though.
I'm in the USA and I just want to buy, drive and service. I think that most people here are that way too. Perhaps some who post on RUclips are the type who replace everything, but not I. I won't buy Chevrolet ever again for reasons similar to the problems you had with BMW. I drive a Toyota FJ Cruiser now. Oh, and before that I had a Mini Cooper (made by BMW) that was shot by 40K miles. All bikes I ride NOW are Japanese.
I live in Florida and I'm the same way as far as wanting solutions, not problems. A huge amount of Americans do. When the presenter said Aussies are different than Americans in that Americans don't mind warranty hassles, I wanted to write that I guess I'm an honorary Aussie.
Haha A fellow FJ driver with similar outlook I own 3 Hondas Ana a Yamaha. I want to drive and I need good reliable work when I need it. Mini Cooper was $4480 for a clutch repair at 30,000 miles. It cost more per rotor than the complete set of brake pads and rotors for a Honda civic.
Your analogy of Chevy and BMW is flawed. Chevy's are more reliable than any BMW because BMW places complexity and marketing exclusivity above reliability. Chevy's won't cost you a first born to fix and are simpler machines that don't break as much. I too only own Japanese motorcycles and their cars are the most reliable as well.
@@lukewalker1051 Agree for Chev/GMC trucks, but not cars I usually buy a new GM truck and run I it till it drops. My newest, 2018, is nowhere near as good or reliable as my 1997. I still use my 2012 for ploughing and carrying. The 2012 has constant problems with powered windows. Just looking around, all the GM trucks suffer from rust in the same places. The difference in body panel fit and finish on my 2007 fj with 200,000 on it is remarkable. And then we have the cars. Ford and GM. No thanks
The reason I come back to BMW is…. I love the boxer motor… character and performance. I love the fit and finish. I like the shaft drive. I find they fit me (large person) better than others. If you buy a used one they have features that other companies just don’t have for the price.
I fully understand your frustration with your K13S and 1200RT. I would also be upset about those issues. However, my last two BMW motorcycles are the 1987 K75S, and my current ride a 2016 R1200RS. I rode the K75S for over 27 years and put over 160,000 miles (not KM) on it, and experienced no major problems. I have had the RS for just over 2 years now, and have put over 20,000 miles on it. Very reliable, and even confidence-building.
A friend says this about his airhead, totally reliable,,,,,,,,,then I looked at the work record he kept on the bike.......4 pages of fine print exact records of parts replaced....wow. Ive ridden a suzuki as far as he rode that BMW, and not one thing broke. Nothing. Nada. Upkeep cost on suzuki was a very, very tiny fraction of his cost.
Had friends that have had many issues with Beemers, so i wont buy them either. In fact i wont buy any Euro bikes anymore as i've been bitten with reliability issues on them in the past. I only buy from the big four Japanese manufacturers now, they're always reliable and never give me any grief for the years i own them. Had my Yam XSR9 for 5 years now without a single issue. And the same for the 3 yrs i've had my CB5X.
Great Video. Owned many BMW's, mainly GS's. Found them heavy but reliable. My first 1200GS hexhead was a fabulous bike, but started rusting on the frame almost immediately. Dissapointing as i loved that bike - travelled all over South Africa with it, even Lesotho mtns. In Australia, bought the new water cooled 12GS. Engine oscillations drove me insane, BMW told me it was normal. Agter much fightihg they bought the bike back. Bought a 1250GS, drove it 2000kms and sold it. Stunning bikes but i am just done with the dealership hassle and weight of the bike. Now own a Yamaha T7 - what a revelation! Great on road, great off road, perfect bike, perfect engine.
Great video which confirms my experiences over the years. I've just bought a 2013 R1200R classic with 10000 miles on it and a full service history with no recalls or work other than the service work. I was going to buy a water cooled r1200rs, but was warned off by my non franchised BMW guy about the reliability issues with newer models. I'm lucky to have access to his honest experiences and would advise anyone buying a new or used BMW to avoid the main dealers like the plague once the warranty expires.
I was looking at a used 1250 gs this afternoon. Chatting with the dealer he was saying anything approaching 8 to 10 years old is considered old! I also mentioned the shaft drive issues on BMW bikes that get changed under warranty at about 40,000 miles and his reply shocked me. He said that we don't change that many because most bikes are knackered by then and how many people do that kind of mileage on their bikes! I rattled off the list of Japanese bikes I have owned and done well over 60k on them with just oil, filters and valve clearance checks and not missed a beat! Its making me think Africa Twin is the way to go!
I've shopped for used 1200GSs many times, and every time I changed my mind because of how many I was seeing that had the clutch and driveshaft replaced at around 100000km (google that to see what it looks like you basically split the bike in half for the clutch (on the 1200GS) and the drive shaft can be a 3000$ job, no to mention very expensive ABS modules that fail on older BMW and are also ridiculously expensive to replace. So you might buy a used one for 5000$ and end up paying 5000$ in repairs. The best is to buy a low mileage one, or one that's been over 100000km but that has had everything done already. Engines will last forever, it's everything around it that will cost you.
@@Speedytrip thanks for your input, what you say makes great sense. I'm coming around to Yamaha XT mid size bikes or an Africa Twin as the favourites. As much as I like BMW GS, unless I can find one as you say I'm not prepared to have to save up for repairs. Thanks again 👍
Being a happy BMW owner for over 25 years of 3 models, this video caught my eye, so I thought I'd watch it and learn about your channel. Over the course of my 35 years of riding I've owned a Suzuzki VX800 ('90) , Honda GL1000 ('78), BMW's K100RS ('89), K1600GTL ('13), and my current ride an R1250GSA ('21). Being well into my sixties now it's safe to say I've settled on BMW, and hope to be riding one well into my seventies, or as long as I can. The machines I've owned have always pretty much fit their intended purpose, and that is my primary consideration when it comes to selection. For example I discoved that I was missing some excellent riding simply because I was on a touring bike (K1600). The Northeast US (primarily New England) has lots of trail riding and scenic country accessible by dirt roads, so I moved to an R1250GSA, a tall bike for me with a 30" inseam. And I love it. I never hold a grudge against any motorcycle manufacturer, and I've experienced issues with each of them, none of serious consequence or of a matter that lingered through the ownership. They are machines, and regardless of design and engineering there is always a random smattering of bikes with problems (eg, lemons). And I think that's why I stopped to watch this. Why would anyone devote almost 20 minutes to offer a negative opinion of BMW? Especially after the problems encounred on a bike over 12 years ago? Bikes and technology change in that timeframe. That's why I never hold a grudge. Problems usually get fixed. The story has not changed my mind, and I did decide to subscribe, at least for awhile. I've taken some time to watch other videos on this channel, and find them entertaining and informative. But maybe it's worth throwing a leg over a BMW again sometime.
Thanks for taking the time to share your own personal experience David, I do appreciate it and I really appreciate you subscribing and taking the time to look around. I hope you stick around. I wouldn't say I had a grudge against BMW, I feel I covered the R18 launch quite favourably I think it's more of a, not wanting to take the risk, type of view that I have. I have the same view of Tesla's. We've now owned 3 EV's and although I've never owned a Tesla I've avoided buying one purely because of the reputation they have when it comes to having things needing sorting after you purchase the vehicle. It's something that I really don't like and something not worth taking a risk on, in my view. I'm 60 this year and have been buying motorcycles new and secondhand since I was 25 and the Japanese bikes I've bought over those years have always served me extremely well, just buy, ride and service... that's it. I think that's what took me back about my BMW's, I was expecting the same deal. Even though I'm wary of Tesla's I've never made a critical video on them because I've never owned one, I don't think I'm qualified to make that video. But I have laid out my hard earned cash on two new BMW motorcycles so I feel it's fair I'm able to share my own experience. I actually would love try the new BMW R1250RT. I know I would really like the bike but I'm still seeing people having issues with that motorcycle. I think that adds to my current frustrations all these years later. Thanks for dropping a line David, I enjoyed reading your experience and I'm genuinely glad your bikes are serving you well!
Indeed - I have owned two BMW's, A K75s which i bought as a stopgap many years ago - I still regret selling that! Then my current R1200GSA which I bought new as a retirement present to myself just over six years ago. After the warranty ran out I started doing my own services as I don't trust dealerships and have never had a totally satisfactory experience with them. I am self taught but have been fixing cars and bikes since I was 12 (I'm now 57!) and have learned as I go with everything from welding and body work to engine and gearbox rebuilds. The only issues I've had with the GS are 1) it ate its first battery but after a recalibration and a new battery four years ago its been fine. 2) Output spline seized - a common fault and fiddly to fix but it only cost the price of a tube of special grease and all is right with the world. Every time I ride it I am really impressed with the bike, I am aware of it's shortcomings but they are things that are very minor and don't affect my enjoyment. I have owned bikes from many of the big manufacturers (And a fe of the smaller ones!) in my 40 years of riding and all have their quirks and pitfalls, it's simply a matter of which ones you are prepared to put up with. I am however thinking of selling my GS - not because of any faults but because my dodgy knees and hips make manouvering it a pain these day as its so tall. I'm thinking of going o - another BMW, possibly a Bagger!
@@BikesILike I have never had a BMW. I have wanted one since the 70's when the R90S came out, just could not afford one. I have had Triumphs, Nortons, Yamahas, Kawasakis,and Hondas. They were pretty reliable and I learned to do most of the work on them myself. I also watch Shaun at the Vancouver , Wa. BMW shop. I see the prices of the new BMW's and what service costs are and how often he is doing major work on them. The new ones are really hard for the home mechanic to do ANY work on because of all the computers. As much as I would love a new BMW, it would ruin my day to have one with problems. The nearest dealer is 3 hours away also. I now ride a 97 Yamaha 1100 Virago and I do the work on it myself. Stay safe and enjoy your ride.
BMW stands for “Bee eM Trouble U”. Had a 2002 R1150RT bought new. Had it for 15 years. Ended up costing me more than what the bike was worth to repair. $3250 for new clutch and master cylinder at 54,000ks and a new ABS unit for $4500 at 56,000ks. I now have an FJR1300 and it is a sensational ride. I will never own a BMW ever again. You are better off with anything from Japan.
I’ve owned three BMW bikes, an R50 c1958model year, a 750/5 short wheelbase 1973 bought new and a R100 Classic 1991. Each one was more expensive to own. The performance went up with each and the ride quality went down. A heavy flywheel and Earles link suspension make for a smooth ride. What you give up is acceleration and sporty handling.
I had a german car many years ago that was awesome until the first service. They worked on the fuel injection and from that time on the car had a flat spot when changing from first to second gear. The dealers never managed to get it sorted. Sold it at 150,000km. I now stick to Korean and Japanese too.
I currently have a 2009 R1200RT and bought it new in 2010. Owning a BMW has been interesting. They require a bit more maintenance than most bikes and it's best if you follow it, whether you do it or the dealer does. In my case, the dealer did the first service, but I've done all the service since and some repairs. What BMW screws up on is in two areas: One, they do stupid design ideas that don't work well in the long run, like a fuel strip instead of a float in the gas tank or plastic throttle body pulleys. Both fail eventually and while BMW gave a 12 year extended warranty on the fuel strip, they don't extend the warranty on the plastic pulleys, which fail and leave one stranded. When they go, it can be an instantaneous loss of throttle control. Then there are the penny pinching/QA/QC with vendors/parts. Water pumps for instance. In my local BMW club, everyone that bought the K1600 when it first came out had at least 1 water pump failure. One guy had 4 and when he went on trips he bought a spare as he didn't want to be stranded. The first R1200 water cooled bikes had water pump failures too. Shock problems, switch gear and on the R1200 liquid cooled, some cam failures, one guy posted in the MOA forum he had it happen twice and he used BMW oil. I've had the fuel pump replaced under recall(the ring fix first), a front ABS cable that wore through on the front rotor, 2 fuel strips and the throttle body pulleys cracked off. When I called BMW about the pulleys, they said have it fixed by a dealer and send us your receipt and we'll see if we'll reimburse you anything. It was 5 years old at that point and the dealer wanted $1400 to fix it. I bought the throttle bodies off of a low mileage salvage bike for $230 and did it myself. Recently, I brought it up on thread on BMW Motorcycles FB page in response to some comments and BMW actually contacted me, but the short of it is, they basically said, sorry you had problems with the bike in the past. All I can say is it will make for a very blunt video. I think BMW makes a very balanced design. Everything works well together in a competent package. Their cars are like that too, but between their odd business model and manufacturing mindset, I'll not buy one again. They obviously don't care. Many folks put in complaints to the NHTSA about the pulleys and even got call backs from the NHTSA, but there's been no movement on a recall. I think the perfect customer in BMWs expectation is one that trades in every 2-4 years and has all maintenance and repairs done at the dealer. For me, that's unrealistic.
BMW tends to spend their time, money and research to find solutions to problems that don’t exist. And then their “solutions”don’t even work. Thereafter, there’s a disgraceful refusal by BMW to accept responsibility. In the end, the consumer pays through the nose. NEVER AGAIN.
I had some german friends who followed the "trade it in every 2 years" model. A BMW can be pretty trouble free when its new, so just keep a new one around. Their life ,was their BMW. The cost of a semi major fix or maintenance on a BMW can be Shocking, money cannot matter. I watched guys spend 2800.00 on a service and a tire. Not a problem. If somebody gave me a new BMW I would sell it right off. Life is too short.
@@bradsanders6954 Trading every 2 years gets expensive, even if you do the lease plan, ride every day or whatever they call it, as you have to have them service it. I know that just to check the valve clearances on a K16 is 4-500 US and then if they need adjustment, double it. The final drive/transmission lube on the newer ones is 65 US a pint. Dealers charge more for tires too, so 2800? I can believe it. I am not a typical BMW demo. I am not wealthy, I don't have a gazillion bikes, I don't trade any vehicle every two years, I don't have the dealer do everything for me and I don't drink Kool Aid. On average I probably keep a bike 8 years. I am on 12+ now. Probably why I made a video, Why BMW needs to F off.
Your story is long but good.. Having said that its simple just dont go there they are for the price a pile of crap !!!!!!! Trust me I would rather go or buy from China and that must say something must it not ??????
I watched your video and appreciate hearing your comments on the two BMWs you owned back in 2010 (R1200RT) and before that (K1300S). I would likely be disappointed in that experience as well. However, my experience has been completely different. My current BMW is a ‘22 R1250 RT and it’s my 15th BMW bike since 1974…..and with 450,000 miles ridden in total. Aside from routine service and tires, and a few minor voluntary recalls, I’ve really had no problems at all. I have NEVER had any of those bikes let me down aside from issues with flat tires or battery. As you say, I have just ridden them and serviced them and that’s it. I’ve had a few other Japanese bikes that have been reliable for sure, but I always felt that they were not even close to being comparable to the quality and capability of BMWs in terms of engineering and performance. I do not think that my experience is either an anomaly or that I was just lucky. The experience that I have had to date with my 15 BMW bikes (so far) has been very consistent with my very high level of expectations.
George, A decent motorcycle, well engineered and PROPERLY MAINTAINED will last for a very long time. I have a KTM duke 1997 since new, Spaghetti Marelli electrics which are garbage but mechanically the damn thing simply won't die. I have no issues with my Moto Guzzi, Aprilia or my F800ST BMW. However, I go by the book when it comes to Maintenance. I make sure that the valves are adjusted, correct weight and type of oil, plugs, etc.
George H, I too have had good luck with my BMW motorcycles with the exception of a fuel pump failure on my 2007 RT, covered under warranty. My 8th BMW is a 2022 1250 RT that I took delivery on last month. I wouldn’t consider any other brand.👍
You write about engineering and performance. Most of the models used to use the same air cooled opposed-cylinder boxer engine from 1923 to 2013, which they were forced to change to meet emission demands, impossible to achieve with the old design. I don't think this was high engineering. Nor can I highlight the chassis as a high engineering level element. On the contrary, it always seemed rather basic to me. And about the performance, I do not understand what you mean: Lots of horsepower? Notable fuel economy? It does not seem to me that it stands out for these characteristics. From my experience with GS's, I would say the bike is comfortable and the brand did offer comprehensive solutions before other brands (bags, headlights, customer service, merchandising, etc.) It also has a social connotation that is important to some.
Exactly right. This guy is just a worry wart. Let home love his thruxton and Japanese bikes. He’s happy with substandard design that’s reliable, maybe.
I have a 2017.5 GS. First BMW I’ve owned, and it has been totally bulletproof to date, and has done 55,000 km of mainly two up touring. I know many with very similar experiences on high mileage BMW bikes. Anything can go wrong with any bike, but I think there is a tendency to pick on BMW in general, and perhaps any “top brand”. Sure, Japanese bikes are hard to beat for reliability, but they just can’t compete with the GS for all round comfort, suspension, handling, luggage, accessories, etc. Not to mention brilliant dealership experience, warranty and support, as well as excellent resale value! You get what you pay for…
I have had 5 BMW vehicles, including current, and I have realized that in principle it is wrong to buy BMW! They are cleverly engineered to generate after-purchase revenue. They cut cost and have obsolescence engineered into them. Their design discourages owner's DIY servicing. German engineering is great, but so is nuclear power, until it gets into the wrong hands. Only reason I will buy Japanese motorcycle is their reliability and the ability for me to work on them whenever I want. If you cannot see it, what can I say...
@@maldridge7630 I haven't owned my BMW long enough to comment on reliability and I agree with you about after purchase revenue, although that is only because of the long list of accessories available. As for servicing/maintenance, annual cost are generally low for the boxer engine. I know I would rather do a valve clearance check or a plug change on the BMW than say a NT1100 and the BMW has no chain to bother with.
Personally, I don't regret changing to a BMW in fact I wish I had done so earlier. The R1250RS has been a revelation. As for Japanese brands generally, I don't dislike them, its just Honda. They seem to be lacking something. Take the NT1100 as an example. No doubt an excellent bike, but quite dull looking in the flesh. The main problem however is with Hondas after sales support, which in my experience is non-existent.
@@philiprobinson2011 I couldn't agree more. Despite already purchasing a ZX14, when returning to the dealership they just weren't interested. I find ALL the Japanese brand dealerships depressing to deal with. They don't have most bikes, and they don't really want you test riding anything they have. BMW are so far advanced on customer service it's hard to fathom unless one has experienced both. I tried in the past to get a ride on an Africa Twin from a Honda dealer, and may as well have tried flying to the moon. They are just depressing to deal with. Say what you like about BMW, but they are a night and day improvement! Ride anything as much as you like, and NO pressure to buy; just brilliant. And btw, the luggage for my GS wasn't much more than Honda or anyone else charge, and it's much better quality. Lots of bias I'm afraid, from people who just recite anecdotal info.
The Suzuki v strom 1050 that I ride at the moment blew its rear shock at 1500 miles and I had to wait four weeks for a replacement, it’s now done 6500 and the replacement shock has been fine, the dealership I bought it from have been excellent to deal with. I also had a bmw S1R for around 18 months and never had any issues.
Wow that's interesting! Thanks for sharing that R&R. It just goes to show that in the case of the Suzuki there are exceptions to every rule. Glad to hear the Beemer has been rock solid.
I ride an FJR 1300A, a 2009 model. 50000km on the clock, still rides like new. My neighbor has an Africa Twin and a GS650. He had to take apart the BMW 3 times now in the span of 5 years. Africa (despite being about 30 years old) still runs no problem and he uses it for any long distance travel instead of the BMW. If that is not a perfect example of a qualitative difference, I do not know what is.
@@chrishart8548 It might be more problematic on average than the rest of BMWs, but it would be foolish not to admit that BMW are very problematic bikes in general past a certain age. If someone is getting a brand new bike and sells it after warranty expires, then there is no problem for that particular individual. But this brand does not inspire long term usage (or second hand market for that matter). There are exceptions to that, like the R1100RT and its variations, but these are rare and far between.
I'm with you - I bought a 2016 1200RT. Great bike, handled great, plenty of power, pretty comfortable, but...It repeatedly went into limp mode for no particular reason and left me stranded. After the 4th time, I was over it. Sold it for a loss and moved on. No more BMW's for me. If I can't depend on a bike, I don't need it. Back to the Japanese for me. I rode a Honda ST1300 90k miles and it never, ever, malfunctioned. Should not have sold it to buy the BMW. Maybe an FJR 1300? In any case, it will be Japanese.
I test rode a Honda ST. I have to say it was so heavy in the steering that it felt like a tank. No Thank You ! Yamaha FJR sounds like a good choice, if not a BMW.
I don't know why it was like that, maybe low tires pressure or something else. I have the ST for 3 years and although it's a bit heavy (but not as heavy as my 2008 GoldWing I had before), as soon as it starts moving its weight disappears and it handles better than some much lighter bikes.
@@jakecrib9971 I’d lean towards a tire pressure issue Or steering head bearings worn or improperly adjusted.. I’ve ridden two ST’s and they were extremely light and flickable in comparison with my own C14 and gl1800 and other sport tourers I’ve ridden and owned..
@@FxRiderST Probably low tire pressure as you said.ST1300 is when moving agile bike and heavier then RT 65kg which is why RT is maybe even more easier to ride. I would like to have RT 2007 or newer and I can do service myself but then again...I would be probably pissed if I need to fix the damn thing every year. ST1100 is as a Touring bike maybe old(model with ABS and TCS) but I would still go for it as it is one od the most reliable bike I ever had. And I had plenty...
I bought a new 2018 R9T UGS, it burned 1L of oil per 10000km. BMW said that anything under 4L of oil per 10000km was considered within normal tolerances, imagine...you no longer need to change the oil, you're always running on new oil! lol To me that was absolutely insane...maybe on a 1940s bike, but not on a 2018. I've often shopped for used BMWs (R1200GS and R1200RT) and the number of bikes that had the clutch replaced and driveshaft rebuilt at around 100000km or less, kept me away. And these bikes are not stunt bikes, they are touring bikes that are generally riden by more mature riders. You can look on Super Tenere or Concours 14 forums, you won't see tons of driving shafts replaced even at 200000km. There's clearly something with BMW where they do not have the same standards as the Japanese bikes, great designs, tons of features, comfort, but once you're out of warranty, what seems like a deal might turn into a nightmare real fast.
I've had 4 BMWs beginning with an old K75 ending with an R1100RT and found that while the prices went up the quality slowly went down to the point that I've gone back to Japanese bikes. Dependability it paramount to me - I despise being stranded. I've found the same quality issues with German cars, primarily VW. My first one was a '57 Beetle. The last one was a 2017 Beetle. Again, the prices went up and the quality went down. We've now got a Subaru and a Toyota.
Great to hear you praising British bikes over BMs. I had a mate who had a 600/5 that we usd to two up all about edinburgh. Grounding the pots on the Mound and such! But we were going to do a French tour on it when the gearbox lunched itself. he bought a new MZ250 and off we went - Edinburgh all the way to france and back. Funny that the MZ even had the same tyre pump as the BM! still they were DKW before the war. i am a Ducati man through and through i have to say, from Sebrings to 999s
This is the reason I can’t bring myself to buy a BMW. My top priority is reliability, followed closing by ease of maintenance. I loved my Victory Cross Country Tour for those reasons. The rest of my bikes have been Japanese, with no regrets.
Sorry for your experience with BMW Bikes, However, my experience has been completely different. I owned my first BMW bike back in 2011 (K1600GTL) & bought another one in 2012 (F800GS) & another one in 2015 (R1200R). As of today, I'm still a happy owner of the 3 of them & thinking to go for R18. I can say that I'm Very satisfied with BMW motorrad products and service.
I was a Honda mechanic back in the early 80s. Yes a while ago. The CX500's had many waterpump failures and the VF750's all, had to have their camshafts replaced due to bad heat treatment. This was a huge factory recall, the biggest bike recall I've ever heard of. My Suzuki Katana had a problem with the clutch basket which I found out was very common and yes fixed under warranty. However when I took it in they said to me, we can replace it with a new part and we'll see you in a couple thousand k's for another one OR we'll weld the part you have, to make it stronger. I opted for the weld (cost me $20 and never heard a peep from it again). Lots of bikes and cars have issues, particularly when there's a new model release. I don't know if your shock issue was common (I hope not because others might not have been as lucky as you). And I'm not sure how reliable Japanese bikes are these days but I do know that they just don't handle with the same level of confidence as my R1150RT. Your experience with the first bike was an inherent engineering fault. I say fault because when engines vibrate and people complain you'll occasionally see a new model with counterbalancers off the crankshaft to tame those annoying vibrations. With the other, that was a catastrophic failure, but I would still say don't rule out BMWs because of that. There are plenty of stories out there of BM's that just keep going forever. My RT is getting long in the tooth but I can't justify an upgrade when it does everything I want it to. PS beautiful countryside around Ballarat!
I love the oil cooled boxer engine. So easy to work on(unless you have to do the clutch) and very reliable. The engine also has a charming character to it.
Could not dissagree more a pile of crap in my humble opinion Just like the old Land Rover we all love them but if the truth were said they are also a pile of crap Toyota or Honda is the only way if you dont want a heart attack !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For me reliability is the number one priority. When owning cars, motorcycles, boats, computers and all kind of stuff it is crusial that my time is not spent on complaining or repairing broken "toys". Therefore I went for a Tenere 700 last year. A plain and simple back to basic mc with a well known engine. So far no trouble what so ever (6000 km). Crossing my fingers...
Thank you for your thoughts and experience with your 2 BMW bikes. I'm an old (77) bikie from way back and have had all sorts of bikes viz. NSU, Adler, Jawa, Honda, Yamaha, Montesa to name a few, but in 2007 I bought an R1200GS new, and a mate of mine did the same. We rode together on some planned trips but then my mate had to sell his bike and I was left with mine. I was still riding it when the ABS stopped working, and this was before it had done 10,000km. The long and short was that hydraulic fluid from the brake system had leaked into the ABS computer requiring its replacement, but by this time it was out of time warranty, not distance. BMW wouldn't replace it fully but discounted the replacement cost of the computer card. Not long after, the electric fuel pump stopped working and had to be replaced. Also, during this period, I had to return the bike for a recall to have the rear hub replaced due to fears of cracks developing. By this time, I'd had enough and sold the bike. I never had any such problems with any of my previous (new) bikes, and to say I was disappointed is an understatement. Thank you again for your story.
After working decades on several friends older BMW's up to 76, test rode newer BMW's up to 2020 with zero interest of BMW's of 1977 and newer. Only four in the collection that have been trouble free and self maintained. Smallest, 66 R27 a hoot to ride, 70 R75/5 feeling of old classic charm and controls, 75 R90/6 a great highway bike after installing a taller rear drive, last a Daytona Orange 76 R90s with optional taller rear drive that enjoys eating the miles. Simple by choice, easy to maintain not requiring removing a lot of plastic panels. I'd rather own a 91 1000s Moto Guzzi as carbs never stranded me over decades, vs newer BMW's like the out of sync cable linkage on fuel injection friends complained about, I got stuck correcting. If a bike requires dealership attention to maintain, trouble shoot or repair vs DIY I wouldn't own it. .....~~=o&o>......
@@R90scj I am with you on the complexity of the new BMW bikes, actually all the new bikes are like that with all the computer controls. If it breaks down, your only option usually is a call for a pick up and transport to the nearest bike shop. That Orange 76 R90 S was my dream bike, but it costs what I was making in a year back then in the Navy. I could buy 4 RD 350's for what the R90 S cost. Love riding, but only have a few years left that I will be able to enjoy doing so. At 74 I will just stick with my reliable 97 Yamaha 1100 Virago. It is not fast, but has a lot of low down torque. Just what I need as I am not fast any more either. Ride safe, ride home.
Very interesting perspective. I also liked the Australian vs NorthAmerican take on warranty/recall issues. 16:28 I too have had a couple of bmw bikes, a 2016 k1600 GTL and 2018 1200RT. The GTL started going into limp mode with approximately 30k km.. After the fourth or fifth time, I lost faith in the bike and got tired of having to either fly home and leave the bike in a shop for them to try and figure it out or to staying close to home incase it died. I traded it for the RT. I sold it after a few years just to try something new. By far, best bang for the buck have been Japanese products. More competitive selling prices, less maintenance costs by far, and very reliable. Btw Bmw dealership I dealt with in Victoria BC was excellent to deal with. Bill, the GM, and Bernie, the service manager went above and beyond to deal with my “limp mode” issues but as I said, I simply lost faith in the bike.
I've been riding bikes for over 35 years ,Japanese and have never had much trouble . Few years back after reading all the rave reviews of bmw rt 's , I was looked to purchase a 2nd hand one . First test ride , broke down ,dodgy fuel gauge, 2nd bike I looked at the screen wouldn't adjust , switchgear common prob or motor £1000 was quoted , then abs light came on .... bought a gtr1400, and now a v strom ,both 100 %reliable over last 6 years. You are paying for the snob badge .
No, I’m not paying for a “snob badge”. Thats a ridiculous and uninformed comment and I think it’s a little presumptuous of you to say that, especially since you have never even owned a BMW and you only test rode a couple of used bikes (apparently in poor condition) a few years back and that tells me nothing really. It hardly puts you in a position to make a blanket characterization of the Brand. Your comments would be like me characterizing all Japanese bikes in a negative light, but I wouldn’t do that because I DON’T think that. They are what they are and if what you have works for you then that’s great.
@@georgeh3778 thats a fair comment and your opinion, I was giving my opinion, I was a member of a gs /rt owners group , boy how lots of them moaned about the servicing costs and warranty claims 🙄. But it was several years ago ,and maybe they are more reliable these days hey.
PS. The Best Touring Bike I ever owned, was the Honda Hornet 900 (sold as the 919 in the USA. Best Wishes hour run on it, was 1109 miles from Spain to Calais, after much of the day spent s ratching through the Pyrenees. That fresh arriving in Calais, if I hadn't had to get back from work, I could have cheerfully turned around and headed back to Spain. Did lots of 750 mile legs in Daylight, such as into the Eiffel in Southern Germany, to meet friends there, before heading off to Eastern Europe etc, and 750+ miles for the last leg. But my Biking days are now over, and it's back to being Afloat on a Boat ASAP. Wishing you Safe and enjoyable travels, Bob. 👍
Great video, I agree BMW need to improve on quality control. Sold my 2016 r1200rt to upgrade to twin cam engine but holding off due numerous complaints from other riders of same bike. My '09 gs on the other hand has been flawless. Shaun Smoakes produce fantastic videos, great to watch every single day!
That’s the price you pay for riding cutting edge technology. You become part of the research and development process. You can buy a good old tried and true BMW model and you won’t have to deal with any warranty or recall work. I’m glad the traction control kept you safe and going.
I've noticed that guys my age (50's+) ride either BMW or Harley Davidson here in Denmark. I guess I'm the odd one out with my Honda Monkey and Honda rebel ;)
I to had an issue with my ‘04 R1150GS. At about 9500 miles the ABS light went on. Dealer quoted me around $3,000 for repair. So I continue riding with this extremely annoying bright light blinking at me, which can not be disabled. Guess I’m a bit soured on BMW as a result.
I own a 2017 R1200RT and approaching 50k kms. Great bike and no problems. I do change the oil and oil filter in between servicing schedules as i have always done with other bikes I've owned. I also check the bike over on a regular basis. Its very important to have a good, experienced and ocd service "person"...lots of monkeys working at dealers these days that simply dont work at the expected standard and in Oz at Bmw dealers thats no exception. I own a Bmw F30 320d thats coming up to 200k kms and apart from replacing the rear wheel bearings at 160k kms its been faultless. I service the car myself now and change oil and filters every 8-10k kms, its easy. I have had different brands of cars and bikes over the years but they are all only as good as the care given...
Bought a used 2017 f700GS w 4400mi on her. I rode 25,000 miles in 12 months commuting mostly highway at 80+mph. No problems. I do all my own maintenance (oil, chain, sprockets, all fluids and airbox). Traded for 2021 750GS. 12500 in 12 months so far. Beautiful bike. No problems. Smooth as butter.
Thanks for that. I bought my 2001 R1100S in 2008 with only 15 k on the clock and soon after BMW found crown bearing issues upon first service with them. Bad start because i loved the bike by then and just forked out to have it fixed after some more refitting drama there. I now do everything mechanically myself (no abs) and in 2022 I couldn't be happier with never another issue, notwithstanding bar risers and footpeg mods bought to get my 64 year old body more upright. Now looking at the 1250gs too but will keep this 1100 as long as I have space to house it
Thanks for your video and comments. However, I’m surprised that you experienced handlebar grips vibrations with the K1300S. In 2008 I bought a brand new R1200RT and my main complaint with it was vibration in the grips, especially at ~4000 rpm. One day I drove to a BMW dealer to test drive the new K1300S. The K-Bike 4-cylinder engine was so smooth (no vibrations) and responsive I became so fascinated by the bike that I asked the dealer to make me an offer for my 6-month-old RT and I would be buying the K1300S on the spot. The dealer was not willing to give an acceptable deal on my RT and I walked away. I kept it for almost 5 years without any issues. However, upon selling it and while the new buyer was riding it to his home the rear drive failed. Luckily for him and me, I had bought an extended 5-year warranty which was transferable, and it covered the rear drive replacement. After selling the RT I assumed that I would be done with motorcycling. After a lapse of ~ 8 years I studently got hit by the motorcycle bug and purchased a 2021 R1250GSA (40-year paint scheme) with all options for the US market. So far I’m very happy with the bike, and yes I still feel slight vibrations in the handlebar grips, but nothing to compare to what I was experiencing with the 2008 RT. I have fitted the OEM grips with Neoprene Beemer Buddies Grips which almost attenuated all the vibration. I think at the age of 73 this will be my last big toy to enjoy.
I think it could come down to individual engine component balancing. Some engines are going to be smoother than others. My 2010 R1200RT was totally smooth when it came to handlebar vibes.
In the modern age, with the very high levels of tolerance of components, there should be no reason why any vehicle, especially from a company that markets itself as a premium brand, that there should be any discernable divergences on new production line vehicles. Even cars and bikes from budget brands don't suffer from this issue. This is bad practice and cost cutting.
@@Cys62 The weight of my bike becomes an issue only when I must stop. Since I’m 5’7” (1,70m) tall, I got the low-suspension option, and with the low-seat I can almost flat foot, which helps me balance the weight during stops. Of course, I still need to be vigilant on which type of surface conditions I bring my bike to a halt (gravels, incline, wet or oily pavement). I also avoid stopping with the handlebars at an angle. Wearing very sturdy boots helps too, I wear a pair of Sidi Adventure boots all the time while riding. I think age by itself is not a limitation, as long as someone keeps fit. Of course, one day the bike will have to go, but I think I still have some good years in front of me to enjoy it.
I had 5 Beemers,the last 3 developed rear drive issues ,leaking shaft seals,play,drive shaft play etc...they even tried life lubrication of the rear end!!.Finally they agreed to a regular 10000 km oil change and added a filling and an oil change screw at the top and bottom of the housing.The service in those so called ,, premium,, establishments is awful.The overbearing attitude of the staff,be that sales and service,seems to be common all over Europe...I started riding on aHonda 60 years ago,I shall go back to Honda...
Surprised to see you having all those problems with BMW bikes! My actual (and first) bike is a 750 GS 2021 and I had zero problems with it since a year. I should mention, though, that I will not upgrade to 1250 GS in the future because the price is ridiculous.
Thanks for that. I have had an experience of owning a GS1200 , Bloody fantastic bike but due to my age and the time I might have left I thought to get my dream bike a K1600 GTL. Well the bike was fantastic. But due to the riding I did on back roads in WA the rear suspension was just not good enough . So I sold it back to BMW and got a new R1250 GSA . So far have not been happier. But in relation to your comments I brought a Jeep Grand Cherokee 3 litre Diesel. Was told it was a mistake etc. Saw so many bad reviews but ours never missed a beat. So from my view we all might get a bad egg once and a while but in general they are good.
Thanks Nigel! My Jeep experience extends to my daughter in law. She bought a Cherokee and I had to deal with the problems she had. When they started talking repair costs running into the many thousands of dollars on the last issue she had I advised her to sell the car. She bought a Toyota Rav 4. Great to hear you've had trouble free motoring from yours! 👍
Good video. I live in a rural area in SE U.S. After 55 yrs riding I ride Honda Magna. I love it because my first "real" bikes were 500 and 750 Kawasaki Triples. They were reliable considering the way I rode them. Of all the bikes I've owned the LS650 Suzuki Savage was the most fun. One big piston. I think you are spot on with your analysis. We don't like leaving our hard earned property with strangers, because we probably have a better idea of the problem than the dealer does. And young mechanics have to prove they are at least as good a mechanic as I am. Some of us here in the states don't like going hat in hand to ask for warranty work that is specified in the owner's manual. Age and experience factor heavily in our purchasing choices. Ride safe.
Good vid, and am interested to hear of your experience with the BMWs. I’ve been looking at them but am taking into consideration your thoughts on the bikes. It is very true that the dealerships make a very good or very bad impression, and I’ve avoided BMWs over the years exactly because the local dealership owner is incredibly obnoxious (here in VT, USA). When BMW came out with some smaller bikes (I’m a 5’6” female), my interest perked up, but after seeing your vid, I’m putting BMWs further down on my “want it” list. I’ve had much luck with Kawasaki brand, in particular. Hondas are ok, but I think Kawasaki offers more for the money.
@@davidwright873 Honda is at the top of the list even with new models. New Africa Twin is already tested to almost 450.000km. Honda Varadero model 1999 here in Austria got over 700.000 and still running on original engine. I bought Honda ST1300 with 155.000 without second though was running great. Honda is I would say on the top of the game regardless reliability.
Nice video and I enjoyed hearing your comments. For sure the initial issue was due to something the dealer did during your initial service. So sorry to hear that. I have a pretty good relationship with my dealer, and ALWAYS request the same very qualified technician to work on it. But mistakes can happen by anyone. Safe riding to you.
I 've had BMW bikes since 1999. Plenty of oilheads and hexheads, I bought and sold some that needed work. I broke a couple of driveshafts, 3 of 1150 driveshaft to transmission out put shafts stripped. A couple of throttle body breaks (plastic cam rotors) Two Clutchs, 2 rear ends, one lock out, (required a new key and computer), one faulty harness, at ground point. A couple of starters, ABS unit, plenty of gas gauge strips. Mind you, I have always had one or two and 24 years must be 300,000 miles.
For both Japanese car and bike workers in factories, work is life. One mistake is their reputation marred forever - both for the individual, and the supervisor. That's why they're so thorough and precise and it's why their vehicles are so much more reliable and better built. Their kind of mindset and work culture just doesn't exist elsewhere. It's a stressful, monotonous work life but the result is great vehicles.
That's a sobering insight Gregs thanks for sharing that. That's tough. I do wonder if that is too high a price to pay when it comes to quality of life for the poor workers.
I recently read that one of the reasons Japanese citizens who've left Japan don't want go back there is the bland, robot-like character of the people, something that's noticeable just walking the streets of Tokyo or wherever. It matches up with what you said about Japanese workers. It's an ironic thing for most western motorcyclists to hear, since we tend to live to ride (ie enjoy our independence and freedom), not to work like machines ourselves.
@@BikesILike I guess if there's any upside, it is Japan and the workers have a good quality of life generally and aren't exploited like in some countries. It's just the culture there to basically belong to the company, though thankfully times are slowly changing.
@@craigfinnegan8534 That's definitely true. I've worked with Japanese people who feel like they're on a permanent holiday, just because they don't have to conform and can be themselves. That's why so many office workers go out and drink so hard, because they can let go a bit, at least for a little while. The younger generations are breaking free from that way of life more now though and starting to reject the work-til-die culture of old, which is great to see.
@@GregsRandomShite That's really good to hear Greg. I really like Japan and the people of Japan and have a lot of respect for their culture, way of life and the work they do. It would be great if a better balance between work/life could eventually be achieved. 👍
Fully understand! I have four bikes: 2009 R1200RT, ‘97 Honda Valkyrie, 2014 Triumph T100 and ‘94 BMW R1100RS. The RT has spent the most time in the shop. Since I only paid $7,300 for it in 2018 with 13,004 miles, I figure I am doing okay. Don’t think I would buy a new one though-too much money for too many problems. My Valkyrie has been a great bike with 105,000 miles on it.
I started motorcycle riding in 1968. It seems modern bikes are much more complicated. More things to adjust & malfunction. Also I finally settled into riding mid size bikes because I realized that I will never have the fastest bike. I'm 74 & mixing with cars on the road seems much more dangerous now.
I am 74 and you are a young sprog ! I sold my Kawasaki 1000 SX sports tourer (145bhp sit up) 18 months ago. I am a displaced Englishman living in Wisconsin and it's too chuffin hot in Summer (95F) and too cold in Winter 62 degrees below freezing F... In addition, the American idea of a biker is a strutting obese tattooed thug and that isn't me... So no stopping at biker halts. To cap it off the roads are 'grid pattern' with few bends or hills. Boring with only a few darting deer to spice it up. So personal circumstances and location and culture is what it's all about.. I spend my time fettling the cars and tractor now.. I passed my bike tests in Harrogate UK in 1963 and Tampa USA in 2008... Kawasaki is high tech and ACE ! My cars are Toyota ONLY !
@@chevinbarghest8453 My other passion was bicycling. Starting in 1980, I started cycle touring & every year I'd go someplace with my touring bicycle. My longest tour was 5 weeks in Italy when I was 50. Interspersed with "push" biking, I did some "motor" biking. I've owned several motorcycle since 1968 ranging from Yamaha DT1 250 Enduro to a Honda V-65 Sabre. I live in central California near San Francisco. I enjoyed cycling the twisting mountain roads on the peninsula south of SF. I now live 100k East of SF where the roads are straight & boring. On the big Honda, I went south to the Mexico border, east into Nevada & north into BC Canada (mid 1980's). In 2008 I drove my Volvo V50 in Europe for 6 weeks.
@@burkestorti4586 Yeah you are a biker and you have been bitten. I think I have conquered the desire but only coz of the boring roads and extreme climates in Wisconsin. When I lived in Northern England I used to do Western Scotland in a long weekend ! I toured the South of France (Nice/Monaco) via France/Belgium/Germany/ Switzerland/France again via the Alps and the biking was fabulous... I washed my underwear out in the restrooms and dried them by fastening them to a piece of string and trailing it behind the bike at 90mph... I thought "push biking" was an English term? Best all round bike I had was the Kawasaki SX1000. Sit up riding position plus 145hp. HALF the weight of a Harley and HALF the price and DOUBLE the power.... and 150mph...and beautiful aluminum frame
@@chevinbarghest8453 In 1988 I did a 4 week bicycle tour of New Zealand. That is where I learned the term "Push Bike". In 1993 I toured the Alps on my bicycle. On week ends there, I had to dodge crazy motor bikes!
@@burkestorti4586 Excellent ! I did NZ around 1999... Crappy hire car 25 years old kept breaking down.. So did my watch and its on the sea bed at Rangiototo island. After 14 years in the US I have to translate my brain into American ever day. "push bikes" are "pedal cycles" plaster board is dry wall...Spanners are wrenches, boots are trunks and bonnets are hoods.. Electric is up for ON not down and the hot water is the left tap (faucet) not the right..... Then there is the cultural.......laughing at weird names is a definite non-no in the US coz everyone has one (except me)... I mean ....Mrs Hickenlooper ? Whats wrong with Anglo-Saxon 'Sidebottom' or Siddybotham if you are posh ?
In the 1980s I had a BMWR100T, and commuted in and out of London on it for 4 years, plus trips seeing people and touring Scotland on more than one occasion. I took the bike up to 92,000 miles before selling, and during that time all it needed was two new clutch plates, as the others wore down. Apart from that, it never missed a beat. The guy who bought it off me, did a pressure test on the pots as the bike was running, and he said it was like new. I have owned Suzuki (GSXR750), Yamaha (some 550 V twin, a triumph bonneville (old style) and a Honda 125. The BM was by far the most reliable. I know have a BMWR1250R and have done 6000 miles with no issues, but I hope it stays like that. It may be the quality of engineering is not the same as in the past.
So, to summarize: you've had 2 BMWs, one of them was perfect (vibey handlebar notwithstanding, which is obviously something you get on any inline 4) and the other one gave you ONE reliability problem in 25.000km of ownership (the throttle body f*ck up was obviously the result of dealership incompetence). And now, 10 years on, you're still afraid of getting another BMW because of their reliability. Am I getting this right?
That and the constant recalls I seen over the years across the BMW model lineup including gearbox rebuilds on the K series even to this day. And now with all the comments I've seen from the viewers right here on the problems they've had, I am even more "afraid" (to use your terminology)
@@BikesILike You do realize people mainly comment when things go wrong and seldom report amazing experiences, right? And that you'll find horror stories with every single brand, right?
I have an old BMW airhead(which is great for a classic) but just through hanging around motorcyclists my whole life and reading/watching online I would not buy a brand new BMW. Why take a chance at the price when you know a big part of the price is manufacturer legacy costs? They have to cut somewhere to be competitive. Feel the same about H-D and KTM. Spoiled by Japanese bikes love me long time.
Some years back I bought a brand-new BMW K1100RS and except for the horrid oil consumption which BMW told me was inherent in the design of the inline four lying on its side, I liked the bike very much. That was until the dry clutch wore out from playing in the California canyon twisties. As an engineer who financed his engineering degree by working as a mechanic I decided that I was perfectly qualified to replace the clutch myself. I got ahold of the BMW maintenance manual to read over the clutch replacement procedure. I read as far as the SIXTH mention of still another expensive special BMW tool required to essentially remove the entire back half of the motorcycle to get at the clutch assembly, and I threw the book down in disgust. I took the bike to the BMW dealer and threw my credit card at them. 1500 US Dollars later I got the bike back with a brand-new clutch. I immediately sold the bike and have never owned a BMW since. Please don't anyone tell me how privileged I am to own a high-priced piece of crap with inherent and hideously expensive design flaws. I agree with you - buy a quality bike, service it and ride it. I own four Aprilia motorcycles and a Honda, and NONE of them have given me any problems. I still giggle that the Italians do a better job than the Germans.
Honest analysis. The price for MMW motorbike has always put me off. I started with a Japanese Suzuki GSX R-1100 in 1995 and went over to Yamaha V-Max 1200. Everything works fine.
Interesting watch / listen not to mention the complete absence of other road users (I live in South East England), ride a 4 year old V Strom 1000 and yes it’s a budget machine but I kind of know I’ll reach my destination and it’s relatively easy to service etc. So the design is spot on, that said, the materials aren’t the best so you’ll need a really good and regular cleaning regime if you want the thing to last. I reckon it’s a lottery regarding European bikes, you get the very best but if it’s plagued with issues what’s the bloody point……then again you might get lucky and bag yourself a winner. No doubt they look the best and ride the best, but I’m not sure I’d trade that for perceived unreliability, plus they cost big bucks.
In UK, the ESA suspension was often upgraded with Wilbers shocks and original ride height adjusters. Far better handling and adjustments actually made a useful difference. It’s not a cheap mod but folks rave about it. My bike needed the whole back end rebuilt at 50K miles. Cost of about £1000 plus my time. I could get a LOT of chains and sprockets for that money. Gearbox input bearings fail. They sound like a loose cam chain. Front timing covers rot horribly. I know of one that rotted into a hole that leaked oil. Alternator casings get split apart as the iron cores rot away. Fuel tank level senders just don’t.
"My bike needed the whole back end rebuilt at 50K miles. Cost of about £1000 plus my time. I could get a LOT of chains and sprockets for that money. " ^ This is how I reply to people that try to tell me how much more superior shaft drive is.
2004 was the end of an era for BMW. At this point the bean counters took the company over and quality and design suffered. They are fantastic performers....when they are running. Too expensive to maintain and own.
Bean Counters nearly collapsed Toyota back in the day. When management starts listening to them instead of the Marketplace and Customers, it always wrecks the spine of the company.
I have distinctly noticed that on RUclips, there are many videos of people who report having their motorcycle being completely destroyed by the dealer, and in every case, there was barely anything wrong with the motorcycle, but failed catastrophically after being at the dealer. The dealer ruining motorcycles is a theme that is far too common, and since you're also putting your life in their hands, it means that you can no longer trust or rely on dealers for routine services. Every owner needs to be able to do their own services, or they should not own a motorcycle. Changing oil is very easy, and there is no excuse to allow the risk of damage to your engine by someone else doing it "unsupervised" behind closed doors. See the book, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." I never did finish the book, but apparently it's a really special and very philosophical book about the mindset of Humans and Humanity.
Thanks for sharing your story. I get it. In terms of ride and performance BMWs are on the top. :) Otherwise... on the other hand the story is a lot different. I mean... you can have a lot of problems or none of them but... when you are about to buy a bike, usually you always pick the one you trust as a brand. If you cannot trust a brand, you are not gonna buy it anymore. :) This is just my opinion.
I stayed with you until the end - I agree totally with your findings. My RT, which was great by the way suffered an ABS pump failure, which I understand is fairly common but as it was outside of warranty the costs to me a small fortune to put right, plus it developed oil leaks and the shaft drive became noisy. Not put off I bought a K1300GT and then the fuel sender failed. It was at this point I turned to Honda and just nothing went wrong.
Great well considered review. I have a 2012 BMW R1200R Classic since almost new and an Indian Springfield since new. I absolutely love my BMW and just couldn't bear to sell it. It's an incredible very versatile hot rod. However it's very complex and a really skilled mechanic is essential also for my safety so it only goes to really good workshops. My Indian is electronically complicated but it's not sophisticated like the BMW. It isn't as well made either in some areas. But the Indian has been very reliable although getting good service is more difficult now than it used to be with the dealership closures. Finding good service for the BMW is in fact easier. Very different bikes. I will have to rebaseline my BMW when I start riding it again to simply know that it's all good. This won't be cheap.
Been riding 42 years and the last 20 years have been exclusively BMW. Only one issue, which is sometimes the abs doesn't set itself on my 23 year old R1100RS. I also have an R Nine T purchased by me new in 2017. Zero issues in nearly 20,000 miles. The thing is if you do to any forum for any make of bike you're going to read about issues. I've only had one catastrophic failure back in 1994 when my two month old Yamaha FJ1200 ate itself. That doesn't mean Yamaha is a bad make
I've never owned a BMW, preferring to stick to Triumph or Japanese brands after a particularly bad warranty experience with a Ducati Multistrada. That bike got returned to the dealer 7 times in 18 months and 13,000 miles of ownership. That had electronic suspension fail, surging, rear brake failure, high speed cut outs, clutch slave cylinder, wrong anti freeze from new causing corrosion to the alloy heads! The whole of the rear braking assembly was changed in the end and it still barely had a usable rear brake. It puts you off a brand even if its all covered by warranty.
After a 35 year absence I decided to get back into biking so I bought myself a 2005 Ducati MTS 620. Big mistake! Having visited local dealerships they say all new bikes are more reliable, even the ones with "dubious" reputations for reliability ( e.g. anything Italian or European) Now I am not so sure.
@@peterboczan2116 Actually my oldest son owned a 620 Multistrada about 10 years ago when I had my new 1200 Multi. His bike was actually quite reliable. The 620 is probably quite rare now.
@@Banditmanuk I have never seen another one on the road. Since being taken over by Audi in 2010 the quality and reliability of Ducati's have allegedly improved but if you've had a bad experience it will still put you off.
For reliability, it's hard to beat the big four Japanese motorcycle manufacturers. BMW can be on the bleeding edge of new tech, but that computer stability control is magic. I like smaller, simpler bikes. I bought a new 2019 BMW G310GS. It was one of the bikes that had the initial set of recalls done, which I think was the kickstand, stator and brakes. It was returned to the dealer just before the 2021 bikes were scheduled to arrive so BMW knocked US$1000 off the price and the dealer knocked off another $400, so I got it for $4920 out the door with the full three year factory warranty. I did the 1000 km service myself and it was easy. It's needed no service other than that. It's not good for highway cruising, but I bought it for zipping around town, secondary roads, dirt and gravel roads, and ADV motorcycle camping. I'm loving it. I was surprised that it was as good as it was on the highway. It's a bit buzzy and it gets blown around because it's lightweight, but it'll cruise at 110 KPH for hours. The larger BMWs have had shaft drive problems. I think they sold them as maintenance free but they are best considered as low maintenance. I'd change the final drive oil every year or two. Here in the US, the used big BMW bikes are so low priced in the winter that they seem like theft. I think that's marketing driven. A lot of guys watch Long Way Round, retire, and buy a big BMW with dreams of open road travel adventures. A few years later they don't have much energy, the prostate acts up, or whatever. I've seen half price bikes that never made it to the break-in service interval. You mentioned Tesla service, but my biggest issue with Tesla is the way the car spies on drivers and sends all of the data back to Tesla. If Tesla ever decides you violated their terms of service, they remotely disable the car and it's totaled. I'd never feel that I owned a Tesla. Many Americans may be more tolerant of warranty service, but I have more of a durable goods view of cars than you do. I wouldn't buy a Hyundai, and I certainly wouldn't buy a GM or Ford. I want to keep a car for decades, so I get a good Japanese car. Do whatever it takes to avoid frame corrosion, and do regular synthetic oil and filter changes. Hyundai has the reputation of five years of trouble free ownership and then everything starts to break. It's not a 500,000 km vehicle. If you trade vehicles every five years it's probably OK.
@@apexxxx10 - No hazard lights. BMW motorcycles never break down on the side of the road so they don't need hazard lights. I thought that odd. I assumed that homologation and regulation would require all vehicles to have hazard lights. In practice, I'd get as far off the road as possible and I'd leave a turn signal on to draw attention to myself parked on the side of the road.
I appreciate your commentary and find that your BMW experiences align with my observations of fellow riders who owned BMWs in the past. I've had a good experience with my Harley-Davidson ElectraGlide which I bought new in 1994. It now shows 100,000+ miles on the odometer with only routine maintenance in it's history. However, compared to BMWs and most modern bikes, it is a very simple machine with a carburetor, push rods and a kevlar belt for final drive. Now I want a new bike that will perform better on gravel and dirt roads. I just bought a Kawi KLR650 as a "primer" off-road tourer, and I have been really interested in the BMW 1250 GSA. However, maybe the Pan America might be worth looking at - even though I'm not certain Harley has the bugs worked out of the design. Of course there's always the reliable Africa Twin or T700. can you buy a Yamaha T7 World Raid model where you live? We can't get them yet in California. Thanks again for your very interesting video.
Kent, no offense , but Harley's are an American disappointment to me. Are theyAmerican made? No ! Mexico and other countries supply a lot of their parts these days. One thing I learned from my 2006 Harley Deuce is that you can just breath on Harleys chrome parts and they pit and rust., also, I have a brother-in-law that bought an '07 Deuce after seeing and riding mine, and his clutch shaft bearing went out at 15K mi. Unbelievable ! Never another Harley for me. Kawasaki ? Now Honda, there's a great bike, as well as Yamaha, and Suzuki. I feel you can't go wrong with any of them, but , I am 69 yrs old and have been riding for 56 yrs in the dirt, dual sport, and the road. I have owned about everything out there, British, i.e., Triumph, Norton, BSA, German, Japanese, Bultaco's from Spain, and even Hodaka's. I have ridden Ducati's, and Moto Guzzi's. I am now on my fourth BMW and have found what I consider the, B.est M.ototrcycle in the W.orld. That is BMW ! From their liquid cooled four cylinders to the air cooled boxer engine, I've loved and been impressed with them all. To me no one builds a better bike than BMW.
I took a test ride on the PA. It has the beans for sure, but it had oddities for me, but I am an outlier. I needed to lower the pegs and the windscreen was nearly useless, but I'm 6'5. I think the M8 engines are pretty reliable. I might buy a HD before I would buy a BMW again. The might is because of the tribal non-sense that goes along with it. I am not tribal about much if anything.
I live in the USA and our roads and riding styles are different than Australia. I have considered BMW, but all of my friends who own them have told me that while they like them, that they are costly to maintain. I own a Victory Vision Premium Tour and both my friends and our local dealership have recommended I never sell it. It is very reliable and inexpensive to maintain plus a very comfortable motorcycle. I am 6' 5" tall and 280 lbs and fit well on it, but even my shorter friends are comfortable on it. Reliability and maintenance friendly bikes, like automobiles, are always your best bet. It is definitely a let down to spend the best riding days in a car because your bike is in the shop or waiting for parts.
I think this is a very misleading comment about maintenance costs and reliability. If you compare the “recommended maintenance” for all of the major brands (including victory), they are all pretty similar. Fluids (engine oil, trans, diff, coolant, and brake fluid flush) are all recommended. All dealerships now typically charge $100 -$135/hour for labor and yes that’s expensive for all bikes. There are not any bikes that don’t need these maintenance services. You can do it or not do it, and you can even do it yourself at dramatically reduced cost….it’s up to you. Many require/recommend valve adjustments and that’s costly as well. But…..you just can’t compare dealer performed maintenance costs with either doing it yourself or, worse yet, not doing it at all and then using it as a reason to not buy a certain brand. I often perform my own maintenance for most items on my BMWs but I do it because I like doing it, not because of cost.
I paid $4,500 for my 2007 K1200R Sport. I have had it for 3 years and it has been flawless. I have put 8,000 miles on it and run it hard. Couldn't be happier.
Loved your video thanks for posting it, I'm somewhat off track here but i was amazed at the roads you were on, and the fact that you could drive so far without the smallest village or shopping center, having never been on a trip to Australia, as a brit on the roads we are so used to being constantly passing through small towns or villages , As for the BMW bike stories ,it must be simply heartbreaking ,when like us here we assume everything german is the best thing since sliced bread ,anyway thanks again,BFN from the uk,
Thanks Peter! Yeah I've met overseas travellers travelling here for the first time and they are amazed at how spread out everything is. It's a big country for sure.
@peter ryan, Don’t think all Aussie country roads are gun-barrel straight. There are lots of roads that are much better than this! I wouldn’t buy a motorcycle if this was all there was to ride! Lol.
@@MaxFromSydney1 many thanks for your reply, I really should have made a trip over there to oz, I think what put me off is simply that flight time, but i love hearing all about it from people like yourself, anyway getting back to bikes i have had one fairly recently, but i am 74 and thought it was time to pack it in. but thanks so much for your message,.
Don't take one man's experience as The Gospel. There is a lemon or defective mechanical product in everything manmade. I have owned four BMW motorcycles and am still with my fourth, and have had nothing but excellent service from them all, whether liquid cooled four cylinder models or Two cylinder Boxer engine models, they've all been excellent. Nothing unusual or abnormal. Just stick the key in, hit the starter button , and ride, period !
You can get Japanese lemons too, when I bough my bike, a '21 Honda CB650R, I was happily riding on the freeway 3 days after getting it out of the dealership, when suddenly I look down to the instrument cluster and the temp gauge was flashing. I was near an exit so I pull the clutch to stop loading the engine and BAM, engine shuts down, probably locked up. I coast to a safe place, ring the dealership, get the bike on a flatbed and a month and a bit later I have a new '22 plate CB650R. The poor thing only had 400km on the odo. And it was a Honda! And with a very robust, proven engine.
I’ve had 5 BMWs and the last 1150GS had 12 warranty claims, brake problems/total loss of brakes, fuel leaks, and clutch, which they had to split the bike in half to get the gearbox out! I wrote to BMW asking would they extend the warranty. They replied no, that they built a superior machine, and if I wanted to extend the warranty, I could do so through my dealer. I sold the bike, and have never wanted to buy another BMW because of their Germanic attitude.
You must had some very unusual problem RT, shouldn't give up just because of that. I have an older RS for 5 years now with close to 100 000 miles (160 000 km), the only problem I had was the fuel leaked from the fuel line close to the tank but a simple replacement solved it, never anything after/before that. I don't take mine to the dealer but know a bike mechanic who works on BMW bikes, he does a fantastic job of tuning/maintaining my bike each year for less than 1/2 price of the dealer. Before the RS I had a 600 cc Yamaha with only 40 000 miles and considerable issues every single year (clutch cable breaking, constant carburetor flooding issues, automatic fuel valve malfunction, intake leaking, oil fumes from crank case going into the starter motor disabling it ... etc.), had to take that bike apart at least once a year, not to mention it was unstable on the road especially in winds, uncomfortable especially with a rider on. I am very happy with my BMW, logging in long trip miles while also using it for daily commuting, it's a joy ride especially after the 8 years of constant headache with the Yamaha.
I have been riding my K1300S since 2014. It has always had great experiences with this bike, it's done almost 140,000kms now. There are better dealerships than others, the last one charged $1100aud for it's 130,000 service, fair enough. Three weeks later I pulled over because the temperature was running really high. Fluid was running everywhere. It turns out that the thermostat had seized, something I would have thought they'd picked up on the big service. This cost $750aud. Apparently, according to the dealer, there have been some other expensive jobs that need to be done on the bike, some that I have decided to take to auto electricians, etc that have costed one tenth of the cost quoted buy the BMW dealer. I don't know, the K1300S might be running too well, so there's no real need to buy another one and they've decided to try to drag a new bike out of the old one? Really disappointed with BMW, until recently, I thought they were the best.
@@lucsmeets4789 Nah, after a while it settles down. They do a few things that may raise an eyebrow but it's nothing to worry about. On a cold morning the cam chain has a quick rattle on start up. It takes a second for the oil to kick in. For the uninitiated it can be concerning but it's really nothing to worry about. Just be careful starting on winter mornings.
I totally agree with your standpoint, even as I'm a happy R1200RS owner with 56.000 km on my 2016. Never had any issues with mine (knock on wood), but I consider myself lucky as I know the poor track record BMW have with various models. I test rode the RS in the spring 2015 and loved the model immediately, but deliberately waited over one year as I refuse to buy a first year model of a BMW as they usually have alot of trouble with new models.The dad to a friend of mine worked at a BMW/Yamaha service workshop. Yamaha had 2 binders with recall orders, BMW had 2 shelf meters with recall binders.... The R1200RS is the best bike I ever had in 40+ years of riding, and it's a keeper. Not because it's a BMW, but despite it's a BMW. (Im a Kawaholic ❤ in soul and hart).
Agree 100% with you. IMO BMW quality is dire and the Chinese Loncin engine range are so uninspiring. The older boxers were beautiful engined bikes but those days of quality materials are long gone. I'll stick with Japanese bikes now.
Don’t understand the “quality is dire” comment. BMWs are known and respected for their ability to perform for hundreds of thousands of miles. Sorry, but the Japanese bikes just won’t do that. Even if they would, parts aren’t available for more than 7 or so years unless you are lucky enough to find them as new old stock. Not saying the Japanese bikes are not any good, but they’re not designed to last for 50, 60, 70+ years like BMWs are. You can still easily buy a 50 year old BMW bike and it will still be worth something 50+ years from now and parts will be available. Can’t do that with a Honda.
@@georgeh3778 There is plenty of evidence of early BMW product engine failures as result of them fitting very low quality components (timing chains, guides etc) US , UK and European consumer protection groups have plenty of online data freely available that does not read well for them. I have personal experience of this, they shafted me once, I'm not going back for more. Well done to you if you've not yet been a victim. Munich needs to treat its customers with respect and ensure only quality parts are fitted. Alternatively, if they get it wrong, as everyone does, give some commercial support.
@@raycollington4310 Yamaha R1 has had 10,000+ engine and transmission failures = That evidence The Honda cbr 1000RRR ecu burning out , the bike runs so hot it melts oil cooler lines , 2020 model recalled for bad connecting rods ..the bike is a lemon .
Ray , are you a “ retro “ kind of guy 😂….. The Japanese have failed to develop their bikes. They don’t even make a bike that can compete with an RT or GS ! Your post is ridiculous, was it meant as humour ?
@@raycollington4310 how has the “plenty of evidence of BMW product engine failures”managed to slip by all the owners who have acquired and operated their new and classic BMW bikes for so many years? You say “they shafted me once” and I’m not sure what that means but it does tell me that you have very limited experience with BMWs and you probably lack any significant experience with BMWs. As an owner of 15 BMW bikes for going on 50 years of pretty much trouble free service I’m just not buying your biased and apparently uninformed characterizations . My experience is not unique and I’m not just lucky either. There are far too many very satisfied BMW owners out there (spanning a VERY long period of time) for your blanket statements have any basis.
Two years ago i bought r1200rt (2012). It had 95k kilometers on it. Now it has 145k on it and have to say that in my experience it is way more comfortable than my old Honda st1100 and 1300. The only thing i hate about the BMW is the attitude of my dealership. They charging money for their work (ok i accept it) but some times i have to wait for 20 minuut job for several days. So I just bought some equipment and now doing services myself. I guess that's why they don't like me. But still love my RT. By the way I always have the feeling that they keep trying to sell some ..it my bike don't need🤗
Recently I changed my 1200rt to 1250rt '23. On my old one I had 180k km. And it was still running smoothly but I had feeling that my clutch was getting "tired" and driveshaft was also looking not fine anymore. So now I have 1250rt. I drove almost 20 000 km on it and You know I regret buying full option bike. First - the software. I found several bugs but the only thing the dealer could say is that they are sorry. Second - buttons. In the rain some of them just stopped working. Remembering that bike is from end of the '23 it's very sad. Few times I was having hard time because boxes where opening and closing every 10-20 seconds... Third - Bluetooth connection. They were not able to fix the sound problems. So I am just using my cardo edge as a standalone headset connected to my phone and only Bluetooth with bike for navigation. Navigation - they where not able to put a memory card in it. Long story short - it's a birdshit. Keyless system. It's nice option but useless if it's freezing. Twice I was not able to tank because I could not open it. So if you going to get a new bmw r1250rt don't take that expensive extras if you are going to use them. It's kind of cool to have them but they are useless. 1250rt is very comfortable, smooth. If I had this knowledge I would buy basic version.
Totally agree, having to return again and again for recalls or warranty work is a real pain. It’s like they think we haven’t got anything better to do. Thankfully not really had that issue with bikes but both our vans have been back time and again. Puts you right off particularly when you get it back not properly fixed. In your case could have been very serious had you not stayed upright!
That’s the price you pay for riding cutting edge technology. You become part of the research and development process. You can buy a good old tried and true BMW model and you won’t have to deal with any warranty or recall work.
His complaint was a vibe that i'm not sure he even talked to the dealer about on one bike then something that seems to have been caused by the dealers service department during a routine service and 1 failure which he says was sorted by the dealer in one visit The bike then ran for 25k odd with no more trouble then he sold it , doesn't sound too bad to me . Skid sounds more like ice than oil , in that it happened in a straight line with no brake app etc and it didn't happen again between then and the 1500 km that he noticed the oil !! Have i had experience with ice - Yes 15 years commuting year round on various bikes - early morning starts in a Valley notorious for frosts !!
Things that BMW has not addressed until too late - rear shock leaking fluid, driveshaft blowing on GS and leaking fluid, front brakes leaking fluid, rear spokes on laces GS wheels loosen causing catastrophic failure at speed, front suspension on GS separating at speed. That all is in the last 10 years. I owned 5. My GTL was leaking coolant from a weep valve at 1500 miles. That leaks in front of your rear tire at speed. They had to replace these on several bikes. These failures kill and paralyze people. I know two people who crashed at speed with the GSA spoked wheel failure. One was ok and the other crashed at 80mph and is partially paralyzed. I sold BMW for a couple of years as well. That is when I started seeing all the constant stop sales. What is clear if you get familiar with them from the inside is that they have zero quality control. Bikes coming to the US with not DOT blinkers or rear brakes. Bikes coming to the US with no DOT required reflectors. Simple things that show the complete lack of direction and detail. Is it any wonder they would have catastrophic failures if they cannot get the US required blinkers right? They cut corners and started using the Hayes brakes on the new 1250GS. They leaked fluid on the floors of the dealerships like old Harley’s. We had to wipe up dime sized spots beneath the front brakes. They went back to Brembo after two years of this, TWO years. The new 850 and 750 came in and we couldn’t even sell them. The first ones sounded like a bag of hammers when you fired them. The 1600 transmission has been a fiasco. I would not touch one of those used for $1000. The 18K service on a 1600 is north of $1000 by the way. Sounds like I trashed them, huh? I owned five in a row and sold them after owning them. They have major problems and everything I said is true and known issues. The money you pay for the BMW is not worth it considering the issues with quality and safety. They do have some cool gadgets on the bike but those gadgets are also a big issue down the road. You cannot rebuild the BMW electronic suspension. Eventually you will end up spending $2000 or more to replace the front mono shock and around $6000 to replace the rear shock on R bikes. They do have a great warranty. Three years and 36k. Buy one buy get rid of it before that warranty is over and if you plan on keeping it buy an extended warranty because most likely you will make out like a bandit. If you can do your maintenance no big deal but if you cannot the dealership is $400 for an oil change. I truly love riding them and they are engineered in such a thoughtful way for the rider. They just miss it on the joy of ownership. If they could match that with the joy of riding them then they would be worth the money.
One thing that I've always heard about BMW (bikes and cars) and Mercedes-Benz is that people usually unload them right after the warranty expires. That's when things start going wrong and the repair costs are outrageous. My neighbor bought a used Mercedes-Benz AMG that was a few years old. He got what he thought was a really good price. He sold it less than 6 months later because the repair bills were draining his bank account. I find it hard to understand how those two brands command the prices that they do.
I had 1 BMW 330xd and a K1600GT and a R1250R The car was absolutely awesome. Tuned to 300HP and 700Nm (yes, 7 hundred) on a manual box. Never had any problem. Sold it after 140.000km to a friend who kept it until it reached 285.000km. Without even having to change the clutch... luckily, probably, because BMW service in Belgium is far from excellent. 95% of their cars are company cars with rules I wouldn't accept for my lawnmower. As far as my bikes are concerned, I have to admit it is NOT as reliable as the Hondas I used to ride. But service is absolutely perfect, professionnal and efficient (BMW Motorrad Waterloo - south of Brussels). They even changed the whole gearbox of my K16 because it had a very very small oil leak through the joint between gearbox and reverse "gear" casket. They could have let me wait for a casket to be available at the factory, but it was simply not. So they changed the whole box + reverse. Problem solve under warranty (I always buy my bikes with 2+3 years factory warranty, which is linked to the bike, not the owner: when I sell my bike, they still are covered for 2 years, even if they show 60.000km at the odometer. I have to add I always respect oil checking, do the service on time. It is a bit more expensive than on a honda (if there not too many parts to order). But it makes me more relax and happy to know I'm covered. And most of all, I have bikes that loves to lean, be pushed hard sometimes, and many very efficient electronic "tricks". I have my driver's license since 1985, so When I say these bikes are 500% safer than 25 years ago, you can just beleive me (or lie to yourself/ or be a Moto GP champion -I'm far from that) For the moment, I'm waiting for my brand new 2022 R1250RT. The motor itself will never be as good as the in-line 6 of the K16, but i'm becoming too old to ride 350kg of metal. My K16 fell twice... in front of my garage (ahem) and I am not strong enough or crazy enough to try again this kind of power-lifting. The RT is around 70kg lighter than my late K16 and only 38kg more than my R1250R (that will be for sale in 10-15 days). And I have to say I like the sound of the flat twin with the sport exhaust (actually, it's simple: titanium Akrapovic). Enjoy your ride, the one that you love. And above all, drive with your brain to stay safe and avoid the dangerous cars with iphone addicts hidden somewhere around the steering wheel. Shame on them. And shame on the Belgian police for doing next to nothing to limit and punish the use of phone while driving (facebook, yesssss, youtube, yeah too, no risk in Belgium: I HATE THAT, it KILLS)
I love my BMW bikes. I have a 2005 R850R and a 2002 R1150GS, both of them go nowhere near any garages, all DIY maintained. Even the service manager at the local BMW dealership suggested it might be a mistake ‘upgrading’
Thanks for sharing your experience. I considered the k1300 when shopping but went for a VFR1200F, I own a BMW X1 and its been very reliable but when something does need to get repaired it’s very difficult to DIY and expensive to have it done. I’m enjoying the Honda very much.
Currently in USA and writing older boxer 1100 or 1150 twins.. Previously a number of triumph triples which I highly recommend. The BMW's were Very reasonable used price. Being About 20 years old. Not any high mountain use but what 1 of them is approaching 60000 miles.. Not doing any big mileage yet.. I enjoy most things about the BMW but also I highly recommend the triumph triples... The most fun were speed triples Good luck out there...
I think BMW, as with any manufacturer can have it’s “Friday” bikes.The problems with the RT you’d mentioned didn’t look to be the fault of BMW it’s self, but rather the dealership in the case of your throttle body issue, and the OEM of the rear shock failure in the loss of control incident. I have a 2018 BMW K1600GT which indeed had it’s share of teething problems. The first was BMW’s failure to completely remove the corrosion protection from the pins in the cannon plug connecting the engine ECU to the bike’s main wiring loom. This resulted in a check engine light, the engine idling at 2000 RPM after start up and failing to rev higher than 3000 RPM regardless of how much I twisted the throttle. Thankfully the issue resolved itself and didn’t leave me stranded. The dealership cleaned the pins with no further issues. I can definitely “pin” that one on BMW. The other two problems were likely caused by the OEM parts suppliers. The transmission recall and the faulty Sprague clutch on the starter. Both items were repaired under warranty, and the bike has run flawlessly since with just under 25000 km’s on it. My other bike is definitely a Wednesday bike, a 2021 R1250 GSA. I’ve owned it for a year now, with 8000 trouble free kilometres on it.
So true... When you buy a bike nowadays you have to take a peek at the maintenance area where the mechanics work just to see how organized they look, and if they really are professional! Also ask some questions. Ask the mechanic some questions about the bike you want to buy, and see the attitudes of that specific dept. I have OCD and perfection and order is hard to come by, I've had many bikes, expensive Ducati bikes, mostly. And each service was very expensive !! I've learned that it made more sense to get a not so big bike for many reasons... we all know Japanese bikes are solid, some what expensive, but doable. But there are a ton of motorcycle companies in today's market! So I went all the way from 1200cc -1000cc to 350cc!! I figured that 40 horse power would be sufficient for traveling, and other outings... The type of bike that works for you, yep, touchy subject, right!? This for me is most important, it must have... Great gas mileage, heavy enough for me to pick up if I go down, comfortable, reliable, and good looking. And most importantly, that parts and service intervals be affordable. Would you believe that this way I spent 6-9 times less than with a big expensive bike... Not to mention, insurance! In the end it's what ever works for you. I am super glad I came down this road, and to find out a 350 cc is plenty, and way, way cheaper to maintain. All this down sizing played tricks on my brain at first, but at 62 years old, it was a wise choice. Safe riding my friend
In a European survey from a couple of years ago regarding reliability, top of the list was Yamaha and at the very bottom BMW. Most surprising though, was that the bikes you'd most expect to have done poorly, ie Harley Davidson, were in fact very reliable.
True. Although European bikes have broadly improved on reliability, they still trail the Japanese in this area. The problem is that the Japanese seem to struggle to make a decent looking bike. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but Yamaha have yet to build a decent looking bike, Honda have merely a couple, Suzuki barely one and Kawasaki seem to be doing OK in terms of aesthetics. European bikes, on the other hand, are drop-dead gorgeous. I own both Japanese and European bikes and I find that the Europeans have soul and there is a point to riding them beyond than just getting from A to B. Having said that, you just can't trump reliability. Oh, and another thing: some people seem to confuse reliability with build quality. From my experience the Japanese are super reliable but really manure on build quality with rust starting to appear within days of purchase. On the other hand, the BMW I have is made of premium quality materials. I treat all my bikes equally badly but there is still a hint of rust to appear on my R1200R after 12 years! I've had bikes from three of the four Japanese marques and the quality of the materials (although reliable) is really poor. Just my two-pennies' worth ...
@@nadyamifsud373 You're bang on the money! Especially regarding the rust issue. Japanese bikes are reliable but for how long? I've seen constantly niggly Harleys that have covered 200000 miles and still going and showing no signs of giving up. That's a kind of reliability.
I've had 4 Beemers in a row: '75 R90/6 bought new in 1976, that I rode for 10 yrs.; a '74 R90S I bought after that, just restored by the dealer (Daytona Orange, Lester cast wheels, some other goodies) - wish I still had that one, as they're pure unobtanium now, rode it 10 yrs.; an '89 K100RS ABS Special (white w/blue) which was an appliance, nothing more (8 yrs.); and finally a '96 K1100RS in ArrestMe Red, which was a joy, a quiet, competent rocketship. I got a VERY expensive speeding ticket on it. For personal reasons, I dropped out of riding for nearly a decade. A while back, I decided I wanted to get back in the wind, but I absolutely knew I had to slow down, so now I ride a HD '03 Springer Softail. LOL - my gf and I enjoy riding country roads looking for ice cream at about 45, 50 mph. I'm totally off the interstate. Too many distracted/impaired drivers at too high speeds. Do I miss the BMWs? Yes and no. I miss the twins because they were so easy to work on, handled quite acceptably for what they were, AND they were stone reliable. The Ks, not so much, although the 1100 gave me years of good riding. I did consider a K12RS, but passed - like I said, I needed to slow down! Ride safe!
BMW owner in recovery here....... I've owned three and while the performance and handling were great, serviceability not so much. My last Bimmer was a K1200LT. I swear they built the motorcycle completely AROUND the air filter. Hours and hours of work just to get access to a filter the size of a small bible and 6 screws. Ridiculous. There is no godly reason they couldnt have shaped the airbox offset to one side and shaped the plastic fuel tank so would one could have access to the filter by NOT having to remove all the body panels, fuel tank, stereo, seat frame, etc. Just stupid. As a rule, BMW makes the difficult maintenance tasks relatively easy and the easy maintenance tasks like pil changes, battery changes, coolant flushes, etc A LOT harder than they really need be. I've always also been a Yamaha fanboy and because of the ease of owner serviceability the FJR1300 and Super Tenere were on my short list of bikes and ultimately the off-rpad capability and lpwer insurance costs of the Super Tenere won out. I love the bike and put nearly 2000 miles on it in the first week of ownership. It was a used bike and as I familiarized myself with the locations of the battery, fuses, relays, air box, etc I realized I made the right choice.
I have a 2004 BMW K1200RS I bought used in 2011 with 20k miles. I’m 6’4” tall and bought it for long distance touring. Added a tall Parabelum windshield but still can’t get relief from the wind. Overall the bike is nice to ride, especially in the twisty roads of the Blueridge Mountains and Rocky Mountains. As you stated accessibility for routine maintenance absolutely sucks! Having the dealer do any work costs $$$$$! I like the new bmw touring bikes but am leery about maintenance costs. I’m also considering the Honda Goldwing so both are in the same price range. One thing I don’t like about Honda dealers, none of them will let you test ride the bike! The Beamer dealer has no issue letting you test ride their bikes. If I’m spending over $25k for a new bike I damn well want to try it out first!
Can't stand the way they look personally, but two my friend's BMWs have had major mechanical problems rendering them effectively worthless (were sold for parts)
I’ve owned 7 of them: ‘77 R100/7, ‘85K100RS, ‘94 R100R Mystic, ‘04 R1200C (sold), ‘08 R1200R, ‘12 R1200R, and ‘13 R1200RT. I do all my own service, the R100/7 has over 100k miles, the ‘08 R1200R has over 80k miles, the R100R and other R1200R both have over 40k. I have nothing but positive things to say, love the performance, love the comfort, have had good luck with reliability.
Thanks for sharing your experience Doug. I find this sort of owner feedback to be very valuable.
The dealership is a big part of the experience for many of us. I have owned 2 beemers in the last 15 years and loved the riding experience. I hated the terrible attitudes at the service departments at the two dealerships closest to me. I had a 2009 R1200GS Adv that was subject to multiple recalls and BMW will only pay for recall service at their dealers. I have a really good independent shop near me run by a semi-retired BMW master mechanic and I could not use him for any of the recalls. I have a 2021 Africa Twin now that I purchased from a small family owned dealership with a great service department and staff that understand what customer service should be. I'm sure there are some good BMW dealers out there - just not within 60 miles of where I live.
Yeah, had a minor accident and have to wait 2 weeks just to drop the bike off for an estimate.. which took another week. They estimated it for almost every panel on the bike and all we wanted was the front end fixed. Insurance company and I both tried to get the dealership to just fix the front -- the rest was just 10 years worth of commuting.
So yeah, the bike got totalled out and and I bought a Yamaha. It was going to take months to fix it too, so pretty sure they just didn't want to deal with it. THEY had to know what the bike was "worth" and what insurance would pay, after all.
The BMW I had before that (2000 K1200LTC) they made me pay to replace the clutch under warranty -- said it was my "overclutching" that caused it to fail at 18 months and 10K miles...
I really liked a new bike of theirs, but decided I didn't want to deal with BMW service anymore.
Overclutching???!!! LOL!!!!!!
@@hennies9509 yeah, supposedly you are not supposed to fully pull in the clutch lever on a K-bike.
Who knew?
I bet they charged BMW for it too.
I just traded my R1250GS for a new Africa Twin Adventure Sports because my local BMW dealer didn't want to deal with selling my imported GS when I wanted to upgrade to the GS Adventure. Went over to Honda and they had no such trouble. Traded out of spite to not give the BMW dealer my service business anymore.
Loving the ATAS off-pavement now, though.
@@azriphale yes spite.. in otherwords childish behavior.
Riding my 2nd R850R now with 130k k”m and since 2008, love it, only refuling and oil changes.. tried other models and nothing beats it.
I'm in the USA and I just want to buy, drive and service. I think that most people here are that way too. Perhaps some who post on RUclips are the type who replace everything, but not I. I won't buy Chevrolet ever again for reasons similar to the problems you had with BMW. I drive a Toyota FJ Cruiser now. Oh, and before that I had a Mini Cooper (made by BMW) that was shot by 40K miles. All bikes I ride NOW are Japanese.
I live in Florida and I'm the same way as far as wanting solutions, not problems. A huge amount of Americans do. When the presenter said Aussies are different than Americans in that Americans don't mind warranty hassles, I wanted to write that I guess I'm an honorary Aussie.
Only one model I hear is made in Japan
Haha
A fellow FJ driver with similar outlook
I own 3 Hondas Ana a Yamaha. I want to drive and I need good reliable work when I need it.
Mini Cooper was $4480 for a clutch repair at 30,000 miles. It cost more per rotor than the complete set of brake pads and rotors for a Honda civic.
Your analogy of Chevy and BMW is flawed. Chevy's are more reliable than any BMW because BMW places complexity and marketing exclusivity above reliability. Chevy's won't cost you a first born to fix and are simpler machines that don't break as much. I too only own Japanese motorcycles and their cars are the most reliable as well.
@@lukewalker1051
Agree for Chev/GMC trucks, but not cars
I usually buy a new GM truck and run I it till it drops. My newest, 2018, is nowhere near as good or reliable as my 1997. I still use my 2012 for ploughing and carrying.
The 2012 has constant problems with powered windows. Just looking around, all the GM trucks suffer from rust in the same places. The difference in body panel fit and finish on my 2007 fj with 200,000 on it is remarkable.
And then we have the cars. Ford and GM. No thanks
The reason I come back to BMW is…. I love the boxer motor… character and performance. I love the fit and finish. I like the shaft drive. I find they fit me (large person) better than others. If you buy a used one they have features that other companies just don’t have for the price.
Same here. I fall in love with this Boxer Engine from the first Minute.
@@kruisr7449 It's a beauty full of character, and power. I sacrifice some reliability for character.
I ride a R1250RS and fell in love with the BMW boxer engine when I rode my dad's R80/7 about 40 years ago. Totally with you on the shaft drive.
@@DAVJULART I am on a R1200RS. Love it. I imagine the 1250 is even better
@@CCitis yes indeed. The TFT is much better for my old eyes. I don't have to guess my speed anymore😳
I fully understand your frustration with your K13S and 1200RT. I would also be upset about those issues. However, my last two BMW motorcycles are the 1987 K75S, and my current ride a 2016 R1200RS. I rode the K75S for over 27 years and put over 160,000 miles (not KM) on it, and experienced no major problems. I have had the RS for just over 2 years now, and have put over 20,000 miles on it. Very reliable, and even confidence-building.
A friend says this about his airhead, totally reliable,,,,,,,,,then I looked at the work record he kept on the bike.......4 pages of fine print exact records of parts replaced....wow.
Ive ridden a suzuki as far as he rode that BMW, and not one thing broke.
Nothing. Nada. Upkeep cost on suzuki was a very, very tiny fraction of his cost.
I’ve owned 3 BMW’s without a problem over 100,000+ miles.
Had friends that have had many issues with Beemers, so i wont buy them either. In fact i wont buy any Euro bikes anymore as i've been bitten with reliability issues on them in the past. I only buy from the big four Japanese manufacturers now, they're always reliable and never give me any grief for the years i own them.
Had my Yam XSR9 for 5 years now without a single issue. And the same for the 3 yrs i've had my CB5X.
Great Video. Owned many BMW's, mainly GS's. Found them heavy but reliable. My first 1200GS hexhead was a fabulous bike, but started rusting on the frame almost immediately. Dissapointing as i loved that bike - travelled all over South Africa with it, even Lesotho mtns. In Australia, bought the new water cooled 12GS. Engine oscillations drove me insane, BMW told me it was normal. Agter much fightihg they bought the bike back. Bought a 1250GS, drove it 2000kms and sold it. Stunning bikes but i am just done with the dealership hassle and weight of the bike. Now own a Yamaha T7 - what a revelation! Great on road, great off road, perfect bike, perfect engine.
The dealership catch-all excuse.."they all do that" ! LOL
For me, reliability comes above all else. Had a couple of Yam super10s and absolutely no trouble.
that dude paid 34 thousand for that POS....lol...He's shoulda asked me about BMW...ida told him.....
Great video which confirms my experiences over the years. I've just bought a 2013 R1200R classic with 10000 miles on it and a full service history with no recalls or work other than the service work. I was going to buy a water cooled r1200rs, but was warned off by my non franchised BMW guy about the reliability issues with newer models. I'm lucky to have access to his honest experiences and would advise anyone buying a new or used BMW to avoid the main dealers like the plague once the warranty expires.
I was looking at a used 1250 gs this afternoon. Chatting with the dealer he was saying anything approaching 8 to 10 years old is considered old! I also mentioned the shaft drive issues on BMW bikes that get changed under warranty at about 40,000 miles and his reply shocked me. He said that we don't change that many because most bikes are knackered by then and how many people do that kind of mileage on their bikes! I rattled off the list of Japanese bikes I have owned and done well over 60k on them with just oil, filters and valve clearance checks and not missed a beat! Its making me think Africa Twin is the way to go!
I've owned 2 africa twins, great bikes, but I hate the valve check schedule. Unless you do it yourself, it will cost you about 1000$ every 24000km.
That dealer was grooming you for a new bike. :-)
I've shopped for used 1200GSs many times, and every time I changed my mind because of how many I was seeing that had the clutch and driveshaft replaced at around 100000km (google that to see what it looks like you basically split the bike in half for the clutch (on the 1200GS) and the drive shaft can be a 3000$ job, no to mention very expensive ABS modules that fail on older BMW and are also ridiculously expensive to replace. So you might buy a used one for 5000$ and end up paying 5000$ in repairs. The best is to buy a low mileage one, or one that's been over 100000km but that has had everything done already. Engines will last forever, it's everything around it that will cost you.
@@Speedytrip thanks for your input, what you say makes great sense. I'm coming around to Yamaha XT mid size bikes or an Africa Twin as the favourites. As much as I like BMW GS, unless I can find one as you say I'm not prepared to have to save up for repairs. Thanks again 👍
Being a happy BMW owner for over 25 years of 3 models, this video caught my eye, so I thought I'd watch it and learn about your channel. Over the course of my 35 years of riding I've owned a Suzuzki VX800 ('90) , Honda GL1000 ('78), BMW's K100RS ('89), K1600GTL ('13), and my current ride an R1250GSA ('21). Being well into my sixties now it's safe to say I've settled on BMW, and hope to be riding one well into my seventies, or as long as I can. The machines I've owned have always pretty much fit their intended purpose, and that is my primary consideration when it comes to selection. For example I discoved that I was missing some excellent riding simply because I was on a touring bike (K1600). The Northeast US (primarily New England) has lots of trail riding and scenic country accessible by dirt roads, so I moved to an R1250GSA, a tall bike for me with a 30" inseam. And I love it. I never hold a grudge against any motorcycle manufacturer, and I've experienced issues with each of them, none of serious consequence or of a matter that lingered through the ownership. They are machines, and regardless of design and engineering there is always a random smattering of bikes with problems (eg, lemons). And I think that's why I stopped to watch this. Why would anyone devote almost 20 minutes to offer a negative opinion of BMW? Especially after the problems encounred on a bike over 12 years ago? Bikes and technology change in that timeframe. That's why I never hold a grudge. Problems usually get fixed. The story has not changed my mind, and I did decide to subscribe, at least for awhile. I've taken some time to watch other videos on this channel, and find them entertaining and informative. But maybe it's worth throwing a leg over a BMW again sometime.
Thanks for taking the time to share your own personal experience David, I do appreciate it and I really appreciate you subscribing and taking the time to look around. I hope you stick around. I wouldn't say I had a grudge against BMW, I feel I covered the R18 launch quite favourably I think it's more of a, not wanting to take the risk, type of view that I have. I have the same view of Tesla's. We've now owned 3 EV's and although I've never owned a Tesla I've avoided buying one purely because of the reputation they have when it comes to having things needing sorting after you purchase the vehicle. It's something that I really don't like and something not worth taking a risk on, in my view. I'm 60 this year and have been buying motorcycles new and secondhand since I was 25 and the Japanese bikes I've bought over those years have always served me extremely well, just buy, ride and service... that's it. I think that's what took me back about my BMW's, I was expecting the same deal. Even though I'm wary of Tesla's I've never made a critical video on them because I've never owned one, I don't think I'm qualified to make that video. But I have laid out my hard earned cash on two new BMW motorcycles so I feel it's fair I'm able to share my own experience. I actually would love try the new BMW R1250RT. I know I would really like the bike but I'm still seeing people having issues with that motorcycle. I think that adds to my current frustrations all these years later. Thanks for dropping a line David, I enjoyed reading your experience and I'm genuinely glad your bikes are serving you well!
I would be pissed off aswell, paying 30K for shit to fall apart as iam riding the thing
That is my next and last bike!
Indeed - I have owned two BMW's, A K75s which i bought as a stopgap many years ago - I still regret selling that! Then my current R1200GSA which I bought new as a retirement present to myself just over six years ago. After the warranty ran out I started doing my own services as I don't trust dealerships and have never had a totally satisfactory experience with them. I am self taught but have been fixing cars and bikes since I was 12 (I'm now 57!) and have learned as I go with everything from welding and body work to engine and gearbox rebuilds. The only issues I've had with the GS are 1) it ate its first battery but after a recalibration and a new battery four years ago its been fine. 2) Output spline seized - a common fault and fiddly to fix but it only cost the price of a tube of special grease and all is right with the world. Every time I ride it I am really impressed with the bike, I am aware of it's shortcomings but they are things that are very minor and don't affect my enjoyment. I have owned bikes from many of the big manufacturers (And a fe of the smaller ones!) in my 40 years of riding and all have their quirks and pitfalls, it's simply a matter of which ones you are prepared to put up with. I am however thinking of selling my GS - not because of any faults but because my dodgy knees and hips make manouvering it a pain these day as its so tall. I'm thinking of going o - another BMW, possibly a Bagger!
@@BikesILike I have never had a BMW. I have wanted one since the 70's when the R90S came out, just could not afford one. I have had Triumphs, Nortons, Yamahas, Kawasakis,and Hondas. They were pretty reliable and I learned to do most of the work on them myself. I also watch Shaun at the Vancouver , Wa. BMW shop. I see the prices of the new BMW's and what service costs are and how often he is doing major work on them. The new ones are really hard for the home mechanic to do ANY work on because of all the computers. As much as I would love a new BMW, it would ruin my day to have one with problems. The nearest dealer is 3 hours away also. I now ride a 97 Yamaha 1100 Virago and I do the work on it myself. Stay safe and enjoy your ride.
BMW stands for “Bee eM Trouble U”. Had a 2002 R1150RT bought new. Had it for 15 years. Ended up costing me more than what the bike was worth to repair. $3250 for new clutch and master cylinder at 54,000ks and a new ABS unit for $4500 at 56,000ks. I now have an FJR1300 and it is a sensational ride. I will never own a BMW ever again. You are better off with anything from Japan.
LOVE my FJR1300!
Because Germans think there products are "premium" products.
Is that Australian dollars? Then still this is a lot of money. My 1200RT ABS pump overhaul was about 1300 euro's.
Bee eM Trouble U? Lol 😂
I haven't heard that interesting definition of BMW. I have heard both Break My Wallet and Big Money 💰 Worries. 😆 🤣
I’ve owned three BMW bikes, an R50 c1958model year, a 750/5 short wheelbase 1973 bought new and a R100 Classic 1991. Each one was more expensive to own. The performance went up with each and the ride quality went down. A heavy flywheel and Earles link suspension make for a smooth ride. What you give up is acceleration and sporty handling.
I had a german car many years ago that was awesome until the first service. They worked on the fuel injection and from that time on the car had a flat spot when changing from first to second gear. The dealers never managed to get it sorted. Sold it at 150,000km. I now stick to Korean and Japanese too.
Maybe you can specify the car model next time? 1 problem on 1 car doesn't represent ALL german cars
I currently have a 2009 R1200RT and bought it new in 2010. Owning a BMW has been interesting. They require a bit more maintenance than most bikes and it's best if you follow it, whether you do it or the dealer does. In my case, the dealer did the first service, but I've done all the service since and some repairs. What BMW screws up on is in two areas: One, they do stupid design ideas that don't work well in the long run, like a fuel strip instead of a float in the gas tank or plastic throttle body pulleys. Both fail eventually and while BMW gave a 12 year extended warranty on the fuel strip, they don't extend the warranty on the plastic pulleys, which fail and leave one stranded. When they go, it can be an instantaneous loss of throttle control. Then there are the penny pinching/QA/QC with vendors/parts. Water pumps for instance. In my local BMW club, everyone that bought the K1600 when it first came out had at least 1 water pump failure. One guy had 4 and when he went on trips he bought a spare as he didn't want to be stranded. The first R1200 water cooled bikes had water pump failures too. Shock problems, switch gear and on the R1200 liquid cooled, some cam failures, one guy posted in the MOA forum he had it happen twice and he used BMW oil. I've had the fuel pump replaced under recall(the ring fix first), a front ABS cable that wore through on the front rotor, 2 fuel strips and the throttle body pulleys cracked off. When I called BMW about the pulleys, they said have it fixed by a dealer and send us your receipt and we'll see if we'll reimburse you anything. It was 5 years old at that point and the dealer wanted $1400 to fix it. I bought the throttle bodies off of a low mileage salvage bike for $230 and did it myself. Recently, I brought it up on thread on BMW Motorcycles FB page in response to some comments and BMW actually contacted me, but the short of it is, they basically said, sorry you had problems with the bike in the past. All I can say is it will make for a very blunt video.
I think BMW makes a very balanced design. Everything works well together in a competent package. Their cars are like that too, but between their odd business model and manufacturing mindset, I'll not buy one again. They obviously don't care. Many folks put in complaints to the NHTSA about the pulleys and even got call backs from the NHTSA, but there's been no movement on a recall. I think the perfect customer in BMWs expectation is one that trades in every 2-4 years and has all maintenance and repairs done at the dealer. For me, that's unrealistic.
BMW tends to spend their time, money and research to find solutions to problems that don’t exist. And then their “solutions”don’t even work. Thereafter, there’s a disgraceful refusal by BMW to accept responsibility. In the end, the consumer pays through the nose.
NEVER AGAIN.
@@danreich4320 It sure the hell seems that way.
I had some german friends who followed the "trade it in every 2 years" model.
A BMW can be pretty trouble free when its new, so just keep a new one around. Their life ,was their BMW. The cost of a semi major fix or maintenance on a BMW can be Shocking, money cannot matter. I watched guys spend 2800.00 on a service and a tire. Not a problem.
If somebody gave me a new BMW I would sell it right off. Life is too short.
@@bradsanders6954 Trading every 2 years gets expensive, even if you do the lease plan, ride every day or whatever they call it, as you have to have them service it. I know that just to check the valve clearances on a K16 is 4-500 US and then if they need adjustment, double it. The final drive/transmission lube on the newer ones is 65 US a pint. Dealers charge more for tires too, so 2800? I can believe it. I am not a typical BMW demo. I am not wealthy, I don't have a gazillion bikes, I don't trade any vehicle every two years, I don't have the dealer do everything for me and I don't drink Kool Aid. On average I probably keep a bike 8 years. I am on 12+ now. Probably why I made a video, Why BMW needs to F off.
Your story is long but good.. Having said that its simple just dont go there they are for the price a pile of crap !!!!!!! Trust me I would rather go or buy from China and that must say something must it not ??????
I watched your video and appreciate hearing your comments on the two BMWs you owned back in 2010 (R1200RT) and before that (K1300S). I would likely be disappointed in that experience as well. However, my experience has been completely different. My current BMW is a ‘22 R1250 RT and it’s my 15th BMW bike since 1974…..and with 450,000 miles ridden in total. Aside from routine service and tires, and a few minor voluntary recalls, I’ve really had no problems at all. I have NEVER had any of those bikes let me down aside from issues with flat tires or battery. As you say, I have just ridden them and serviced them and that’s it. I’ve had a few other Japanese bikes that have been reliable for sure, but I always felt that they were not even close to being comparable to the quality and capability of BMWs in terms of engineering and performance. I do not think that my experience is either an anomaly or that I was just lucky. The experience that I have had to date with my 15 BMW bikes (so far) has been very consistent with my very high level of expectations.
Great to hear positive BMW ownership experiences George! 👍
George, A decent motorcycle, well engineered and PROPERLY MAINTAINED will last for a very long time. I have a KTM duke 1997 since new, Spaghetti Marelli electrics which are garbage but mechanically the damn thing simply won't die. I have no issues with my Moto Guzzi, Aprilia or my F800ST BMW. However, I go by the book when it comes to Maintenance. I make sure that the valves are adjusted, correct weight and type of oil, plugs, etc.
George H, I too have had good luck with my BMW motorcycles with the exception of a fuel pump failure on my 2007 RT, covered under warranty. My 8th BMW is a 2022 1250 RT that I took delivery on last month. I wouldn’t consider any other brand.👍
You write about engineering and performance. Most of the models used to use the same air cooled opposed-cylinder boxer engine from 1923 to 2013, which they were forced to change to meet emission demands, impossible to achieve with the old design. I don't think this was high engineering. Nor can I highlight the chassis as a high engineering level element. On the contrary, it always seemed rather basic to me. And about the performance, I do not understand what you mean: Lots of horsepower? Notable fuel economy? It does not seem to me that it stands out for these characteristics. From my experience with GS's, I would say the bike is comfortable and the brand did offer comprehensive solutions before other brands (bags, headlights, customer service, merchandising, etc.) It also has a social connotation that is important to some.
Exactly right. This guy is just a worry wart. Let home love his thruxton and Japanese bikes. He’s happy with substandard design that’s reliable, maybe.
That service manager probably ended up opening his own shop and has a loyal group of customers because he does the right thing. 😉
I have a 2017.5 GS. First BMW I’ve owned, and it has been totally bulletproof to date, and has done 55,000 km of mainly two up touring. I know many with very similar experiences on high mileage BMW bikes. Anything can go wrong with any bike, but I think there is a tendency to pick on BMW in general, and perhaps any “top brand”.
Sure, Japanese bikes are hard to beat for reliability, but they just can’t compete with the GS for all round comfort, suspension, handling, luggage, accessories, etc. Not to mention brilliant dealership experience, warranty and support, as well as excellent resale value!
You get what you pay for…
I have had 5 BMW vehicles, including current, and I have realized that in principle it is wrong to buy BMW! They are cleverly engineered to generate after-purchase revenue. They cut cost and have obsolescence engineered into them. Their design discourages owner's DIY servicing. German engineering is great, but so is nuclear power, until it gets into the wrong hands.
Only reason I will buy Japanese motorcycle is their reliability and the ability for me to work on them whenever I want. If you cannot see it, what can I say...
@@maldridge7630 same as their cars - fun but complete money pits
@@maldridge7630 I haven't owned my BMW long enough to comment on reliability and I agree with you about after purchase revenue, although that is only because of the long list of accessories available. As for servicing/maintenance, annual cost are generally low for the boxer engine. I know I would rather do a valve clearance check or a plug change on the BMW than say a NT1100 and the BMW has no chain to bother with.
Personally, I don't regret changing to a BMW in fact I wish I had done so earlier. The R1250RS has been a revelation. As for Japanese brands generally, I don't dislike them, its just Honda. They seem to be lacking something. Take the NT1100 as an example. No doubt an excellent bike, but quite dull looking in the flesh. The main problem however is with Hondas after sales support, which in my experience is non-existent.
@@philiprobinson2011 I couldn't agree more. Despite already purchasing a ZX14, when returning to the dealership they just weren't interested. I find ALL the Japanese brand dealerships depressing to deal with. They don't have most bikes, and they don't really want you test riding anything they have. BMW are so far advanced on customer service it's hard to fathom unless one has experienced both. I tried in the past to get a ride on an Africa Twin from a Honda dealer, and may as well have tried flying to the moon. They are just depressing to deal with.
Say what you like about BMW, but they are a night and day improvement! Ride anything as much as you like, and NO pressure to buy; just brilliant. And btw, the luggage for my GS wasn't much more than Honda or anyone else charge, and it's much better quality. Lots of bias I'm afraid, from people who just recite anecdotal info.
The Suzuki v strom 1050 that I ride at the moment blew its rear shock at 1500 miles and I had to wait four weeks for a replacement, it’s now done 6500 and the replacement shock has been fine, the dealership I bought it from have been excellent to deal with. I also had a bmw S1R for around 18 months and never had any issues.
Wow that's interesting! Thanks for sharing that R&R. It just goes to show that in the case of the Suzuki there are exceptions to every rule. Glad to hear the Beemer has been rock solid.
Thanks for sharing this. It is good to know that we all can have different experience. :)
I ride an FJR 1300A, a 2009 model. 50000km on the clock, still rides like new. My neighbor has an Africa Twin and a GS650. He had to take apart the BMW 3 times now in the span of 5 years. Africa (despite being about 30 years old) still runs no problem and he uses it for any long distance travel instead of the BMW. If that is not a perfect example of a qualitative difference, I do not know what is.
Taking a bike apart 3 times in 5 years is not normal. That's not bmw That's a problem bike.
@@chrishart8548 It might be more problematic on average than the rest of BMWs, but it would be foolish not to admit that BMW are very problematic bikes in general past a certain age. If someone is getting a brand new bike and sells it after warranty expires, then there is no problem for that particular individual. But this brand does not inspire long term usage (or second hand market for that matter). There are exceptions to that, like the R1100RT and its variations, but these are rare and far between.
I'm with you - I bought a 2016 1200RT. Great bike, handled great, plenty of power, pretty comfortable, but...It repeatedly went into limp mode for no particular reason and left me stranded. After the 4th time, I was over it. Sold it for a loss and moved on. No more BMW's for me. If I can't depend on a bike, I don't need it. Back to the Japanese for me. I rode a Honda ST1300 90k miles and it never, ever, malfunctioned. Should not have sold it to buy the BMW. Maybe an FJR 1300? In any case, it will be Japanese.
I test rode a Honda ST. I have to say it was so heavy in the steering that it felt like a tank. No Thank You ! Yamaha FJR sounds like a good choice, if not a BMW.
I don't know why it was like that, maybe low tires pressure or something else. I have the ST for 3 years and although it's a bit heavy (but not as heavy as my 2008 GoldWing I had before), as soon as it starts moving its weight disappears and it handles better than some much lighter bikes.
@@jakecrib9971 I’d lean towards a tire pressure issue Or steering head bearings worn or improperly adjusted.. I’ve ridden two ST’s and they were extremely light and flickable in comparison with my own C14 and gl1800 and other sport tourers I’ve ridden and owned..
@@FxRiderST Probably low tire pressure as you said.ST1300 is when moving agile bike and heavier then RT 65kg which is why RT is maybe even more easier to ride. I would like to have RT 2007 or newer and I can do service myself but then again...I would be probably pissed if I need to fix the damn thing every year. ST1100 is as a Touring bike maybe old(model with ABS and TCS) but I would still go for it as it is one od the most reliable bike I ever had. And I had plenty...
I bought a new 2018 R9T UGS, it burned 1L of oil per 10000km. BMW said that anything under 4L of oil per 10000km was considered within normal tolerances, imagine...you no longer need to change the oil, you're always running on new oil! lol
To me that was absolutely insane...maybe on a 1940s bike, but not on a 2018. I've often shopped for used BMWs (R1200GS and R1200RT) and the number of bikes that had the clutch replaced and driveshaft rebuilt at around 100000km or less, kept me away. And these bikes are not stunt bikes, they are touring bikes that are generally riden by more mature riders. You can look on Super Tenere or Concours 14 forums, you won't see tons of driving shafts replaced even at 200000km. There's clearly something with BMW where they do not have the same standards as the Japanese bikes, great designs, tons of features, comfort, but once you're out of warranty, what seems like a deal might turn into a nightmare real fast.
I've had 4 BMWs beginning with an old K75 ending with an R1100RT and found that while the prices went up the quality slowly went down to the point that I've gone back to Japanese bikes. Dependability it paramount to me - I despise being stranded. I've found the same quality issues with German cars, primarily VW. My first one was a '57 Beetle. The last one was a 2017 Beetle. Again, the prices went up and the quality went down. We've now got a Subaru and a Toyota.
Great to hear you praising British bikes over BMs. I had a mate who had a 600/5 that we usd to two up all about edinburgh. Grounding the pots on the Mound and such! But we were going to do a French tour on it when the gearbox lunched itself. he bought a new MZ250 and off we went - Edinburgh all the way to france and back. Funny that the MZ even had the same tyre pump as the BM! still they were DKW before the war. i am a Ducati man through and through i have to say, from Sebrings to 999s
This is the reason I can’t bring myself to buy a BMW. My top priority is reliability, followed closing by ease of maintenance. I loved my Victory Cross Country Tour for those reasons. The rest of my bikes have been Japanese, with no regrets.
When a company has recalls, I appreciate it. It’s their admission that they produced something not completely right and making it correct.
Sorry for your experience with BMW Bikes, However, my experience has been completely different. I owned my first BMW bike back in 2011 (K1600GTL) & bought another one in 2012 (F800GS) & another one in 2015 (R1200R). As of today, I'm still a happy owner of the 3 of them & thinking to go for R18. I can say that I'm Very satisfied with BMW motorrad products and service.
I was a Honda mechanic back in the early 80s. Yes a while ago. The CX500's had many waterpump failures and the VF750's all, had to have their camshafts replaced due to bad heat treatment. This was a huge factory recall, the biggest bike recall I've ever heard of. My Suzuki Katana had a problem with the clutch basket which I found out was very common and yes fixed under warranty. However when I took it in they said to me, we can replace it with a new part and we'll see you in a couple thousand k's for another one OR we'll weld the part you have, to make it stronger. I opted for the weld (cost me $20 and never heard a peep from it again). Lots of bikes and cars have issues, particularly when there's a new model release. I don't know if your shock issue was common (I hope not because others might not have been as lucky as you). And I'm not sure how reliable Japanese bikes are these days but I do know that they just don't handle with the same level of confidence as my R1150RT.
Your experience with the first bike was an inherent engineering fault. I say fault because when engines vibrate and people complain you'll occasionally see a new model with counterbalancers off the crankshaft to tame those annoying vibrations. With the other, that was a catastrophic failure, but I would still say don't rule out BMWs because of that. There are plenty of stories out there of BM's that just keep going forever. My RT is getting long in the tooth but I can't justify an upgrade when it does everything I want it to.
PS beautiful countryside around Ballarat!
I love the oil cooled boxer engine. So easy to work on(unless you have to do the clutch) and very reliable. The engine also has a charming character to it.
The thought of having a classic old beemer sitting in the garage is quite appealing.
Indeed just had one done head to toe and she's ready to go
Could not dissagree more a pile of crap in my humble opinion Just like the old Land Rover we all love them but if the truth were said they are also a pile of crap Toyota or Honda is the only way if you dont want a heart attack !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For me reliability is the number one priority. When owning cars, motorcycles, boats, computers and all kind of stuff it is crusial that my time is not spent on complaining or repairing broken "toys".
Therefore I went for a Tenere 700 last year. A plain and simple back to basic mc with a well known engine. So far no trouble what so ever (6000 km). Crossing my fingers...
Thank you for your thoughts and experience with your 2 BMW bikes. I'm an old (77) bikie from way back and have had all sorts of bikes viz. NSU, Adler, Jawa, Honda, Yamaha, Montesa to name a few, but in 2007 I bought an R1200GS new, and a mate of mine did the same. We rode together on some planned trips but then my mate had to sell his bike and I was left with mine. I was still riding it when the ABS stopped working, and this was before it had done 10,000km. The long and short was that hydraulic fluid from the brake system had leaked into the ABS computer requiring its replacement, but by this time it was out of time warranty, not distance. BMW wouldn't replace it fully but discounted the replacement cost of the computer card. Not long after, the electric fuel pump stopped working and had to be replaced. Also, during this period, I had to return the bike for a recall to have the rear hub replaced due to fears of cracks developing. By this time, I'd had enough and sold the bike. I never had any such problems with any of my previous (new) bikes, and to say I was disappointed is an understatement. Thank you again for your story.
After working decades on several friends older BMW's up to 76, test rode newer BMW's up to 2020 with zero interest of BMW's of 1977 and newer. Only four in the collection that have been trouble free and self maintained. Smallest, 66 R27 a hoot to ride, 70 R75/5 feeling of old classic charm and controls, 75 R90/6 a great highway bike after installing a taller rear drive, last a Daytona Orange 76 R90s with optional taller rear drive that enjoys eating the miles. Simple by choice, easy to maintain not requiring removing a lot of plastic panels. I'd rather own a 91 1000s Moto Guzzi as carbs never stranded me over decades, vs newer BMW's like the out of sync cable linkage on fuel injection friends complained about, I got stuck correcting. If a bike requires dealership attention to maintain, trouble shoot or repair vs DIY I wouldn't own it. .....~~=o&o>......
@@R90scj I am with you on the complexity of the new BMW bikes, actually all the new bikes are like that with all the computer controls. If it breaks down, your only option usually is a call for a pick up and transport to the nearest bike shop. That Orange 76 R90 S was my dream bike, but it costs what I was making in a year back then in the Navy. I could buy 4 RD 350's for what the R90 S cost. Love riding, but only have a few years left that I will be able to enjoy doing so. At 74 I will just stick with my reliable 97 Yamaha 1100 Virago. It is not fast, but has a lot of low down torque. Just what I need as I am not fast any more either. Ride safe, ride home.
Very interesting perspective. I also liked the Australian vs NorthAmerican take on warranty/recall issues. 16:28 I too have had a couple of bmw bikes, a 2016 k1600 GTL and 2018 1200RT. The GTL started going into limp mode with approximately 30k km.. After the fourth or fifth time, I lost faith in the bike and got tired of having to either fly home and leave the bike in a shop for them to try and figure it out or to staying close to home incase it died. I traded it for the RT. I sold it after a few years just to try something new. By far, best bang for the buck have been Japanese products. More competitive selling prices, less maintenance costs by far, and very reliable. Btw Bmw dealership I dealt with in Victoria BC was excellent to deal with. Bill, the GM, and Bernie, the service manager went above and beyond to deal with my “limp mode” issues but as I said, I simply lost faith in the bike.
I wonder whether a very low volume niche product like a 1600 ends up being "field tested" by its customers.
@@keyboarddancers7751 it’s evident.
I've been riding bikes for over 35 years ,Japanese and have never had much trouble . Few years back after reading all the rave reviews of bmw rt 's , I was looked to purchase a 2nd hand one . First test ride , broke down ,dodgy fuel gauge, 2nd bike I looked at the screen wouldn't adjust , switchgear common prob or motor £1000 was quoted , then abs light came on .... bought a gtr1400, and now a v strom ,both 100 %reliable over last 6 years. You are paying for the snob badge .
No, I’m not paying for a “snob badge”. Thats a ridiculous and uninformed comment and I think it’s a little presumptuous of you to say that, especially since you have never even owned a BMW and you only test rode a couple of used bikes (apparently in poor condition) a few years back and that tells me nothing really. It hardly puts you in a position to make a blanket characterization of the Brand. Your comments would be like me characterizing all Japanese bikes in a negative light, but I wouldn’t do that because I DON’T think that. They are what they are and if what you have works for you then that’s great.
@@georgeh3778 thats a fair comment and your opinion, I was giving my opinion, I was a member of a gs /rt owners group , boy how lots of them moaned about the servicing costs and warranty claims 🙄. But it was several years ago ,and maybe they are more reliable these days hey.
PS. The Best Touring Bike I ever owned, was the Honda Hornet 900 (sold as the 919 in the USA. Best Wishes hour run on it, was 1109 miles from Spain to Calais, after much of the day spent s ratching through the Pyrenees. That fresh arriving in Calais, if I hadn't had to get back from work, I could have cheerfully turned around and headed back to Spain. Did lots of 750 mile legs in Daylight, such as into the Eiffel in Southern Germany, to meet friends there, before heading off to Eastern Europe etc, and 750+ miles for the last leg. But my Biking days are now over, and it's back to being Afloat on a Boat ASAP. Wishing you Safe and enjoyable travels, Bob. 👍
Great video, I agree BMW need to improve on quality control. Sold my 2016 r1200rt to upgrade to twin cam engine but holding off due numerous complaints from other riders of same bike. My '09 gs on the other hand has been flawless. Shaun Smoakes produce fantastic videos, great to watch every single day!
That’s the price you pay for riding cutting edge technology. You become part of the research and development process. You can buy a good old tried and true BMW model and you won’t have to deal with any warranty or recall work. I’m glad the traction control kept you safe and going.
I've noticed that guys my age (50's+) ride either BMW or Harley Davidson here in Denmark. I guess I'm the odd one out with my Honda Monkey and Honda rebel ;)
Same for me and my Ducati multistrada!!!!😀😀😀😀🍺🍺🍺🍺🏍🏍
Thats bec the elder had the money for these over-priced bikes
@@drhkleinert8241 True. For me it's about also having money for other things 😆
I to had an issue with my ‘04 R1150GS. At about 9500 miles the ABS light went on. Dealer quoted me around $3,000 for repair. So I continue riding with this extremely annoying bright light blinking at me, which can not be disabled. Guess I’m a bit soured on BMW as a result.
I own a 2017 R1200RT and approaching 50k kms. Great bike and no problems. I do change the oil and oil filter in between servicing schedules as i have always done with other bikes I've owned. I also check the bike over on a regular basis. Its very important to have a good, experienced and ocd service "person"...lots of monkeys working at dealers these days that simply dont work at the expected standard and in Oz at Bmw dealers thats no exception.
I own a Bmw F30 320d thats coming up to 200k kms and apart from replacing the rear wheel bearings at 160k kms its been faultless. I service the car myself now and change oil and filters every 8-10k kms, its easy.
I have had different brands of cars and bikes over the years but they are all only as good as the care given...
Bought a used 2017 f700GS w 4400mi on her. I rode 25,000 miles in 12 months commuting mostly highway at 80+mph. No problems. I do all my own maintenance (oil, chain, sprockets, all fluids and airbox).
Traded for 2021 750GS. 12500 in 12 months so far. Beautiful bike. No problems. Smooth as butter.
Thanks for that.
I bought my 2001 R1100S in 2008 with only 15 k on the clock and soon after BMW found crown bearing issues upon first service with them.
Bad start because i loved the bike by then and just forked out to have it fixed after some more refitting drama there.
I now do everything mechanically myself (no abs) and in 2022 I couldn't be happier with never another issue, notwithstanding bar risers and footpeg mods bought to get my 64 year old body more upright. Now looking at the 1250gs too but will keep this 1100 as long as I have space to house it
K1200s and k1300s motorsport also R1200s
Bar risers on the R1200s not on both k bikes turning 66 shortly
ride all of them frequently
It's the same with cars you buy new bmw ,merc. Etc. And problems arise so expensive vehicles aren't what they seem
Thanks for your video and comments. However, I’m surprised that you experienced handlebar grips vibrations with the K1300S. In 2008 I bought a brand new R1200RT and my main complaint with it was vibration in the grips, especially at ~4000 rpm. One day I drove to a BMW dealer to test drive the new K1300S. The K-Bike 4-cylinder engine was so smooth (no vibrations) and responsive I became so fascinated by the bike that I asked the dealer to make me an offer for my 6-month-old RT and I would be buying the K1300S on the spot. The dealer was not willing to give an acceptable deal on my RT and I walked away. I kept it for almost 5 years without any issues. However, upon selling it and while the new buyer was riding it to his home the rear drive failed. Luckily for him and me, I had bought an extended 5-year warranty which was transferable, and it covered the rear drive replacement.
After selling the RT I assumed that I would be done with motorcycling. After a lapse of ~ 8 years I studently got hit by the motorcycle bug and purchased a 2021 R1250GSA (40-year paint scheme) with all options for the US market. So far I’m very happy with the bike, and yes I still feel slight vibrations in the handlebar grips, but nothing to compare to what I was experiencing with the 2008 RT. I have fitted the OEM grips with Neoprene Beemer Buddies Grips which almost attenuated all the vibration. I think at the age of 73 this will be my last big toy to enjoy.
I think it could come down to individual engine component balancing. Some engines are going to be smoother than others. My 2010 R1200RT was totally smooth when it came to handlebar vibes.
In the modern age, with the very high levels of tolerance of components, there should be no reason why any vehicle, especially from a company that markets itself as a premium brand, that there should be any discernable divergences on new production line vehicles.
Even cars and bikes from budget brands don't suffer from this issue.
This is bad practice and cost cutting.
At that age how do you handle the weight of the bike, any issue?...
I m 60 and i plan to ride until i cannot handle the weight no more.
@@Cys62 The weight of my bike becomes an issue only when I must stop. Since I’m 5’7” (1,70m) tall, I got the low-suspension option, and with the low-seat I can almost flat foot, which helps me balance the weight during stops. Of course, I still need to be vigilant on which type of surface conditions I bring my bike to a halt (gravels, incline, wet or oily pavement). I also avoid stopping with the handlebars at an angle. Wearing very sturdy boots helps too, I wear a pair of Sidi Adventure boots all the time while riding. I think age by itself is not a limitation, as long as someone keeps fit. Of course, one day the bike will have to go, but I think I still have some good years in front of me to enjoy it.
@@Star-ty1nx thanks for your sharing, most appreciated....
Take care while you're riding...
I had 5 Beemers,the last 3 developed rear drive issues ,leaking shaft seals,play,drive shaft play etc...they even tried life lubrication of the rear end!!.Finally they agreed to a regular 10000 km oil change and added a filling and an oil change screw at the top and bottom of the housing.The service in those so called ,, premium,, establishments is awful.The overbearing attitude of the staff,be that sales and service,seems to be common all over Europe...I started riding on aHonda 60 years ago,I shall go back to Honda...
Surprised to see you having all those problems with BMW bikes! My actual (and first) bike is a 750 GS 2021 and I had zero problems with it since a year. I should mention, though, that I will not upgrade to 1250 GS in the future because the price is ridiculous.
So, your one year old motorcycle hasn’t had any problems?
@@notfornuttinschaumburg5671
No problem at all
I'm 8 years in on a blue f800gs and I'm loving it.
Thanks for that. I have had an experience of owning a GS1200 , Bloody fantastic bike but due to my age and the time I might have left I thought to get my dream bike a K1600 GTL. Well the bike was fantastic. But due to the riding I did on back roads in WA the rear suspension was just not good enough . So I sold it back to BMW and got a new R1250 GSA . So far have not been happier.
But in relation to your comments I brought a Jeep Grand Cherokee 3 litre Diesel. Was told it was a mistake etc. Saw so many bad reviews but ours never missed a beat. So from my view we all might get a bad egg once and a while but in general they are good.
Thanks Nigel! My Jeep experience extends to my daughter in law. She bought a Cherokee and I had to deal with the problems she had. When they started talking repair costs running into the many thousands of dollars on the last issue she had I advised her to sell the car. She bought a Toyota Rav 4. Great to hear you've had trouble free motoring from yours! 👍
That diesel jeep is something we never got in the states...sadly.
Good video. I live in a rural area in SE U.S. After 55 yrs riding I ride Honda Magna. I love it because my first "real" bikes were 500 and 750 Kawasaki Triples. They were reliable considering the way I rode them. Of all the bikes I've owned the LS650 Suzuki Savage was the most fun. One big piston. I think you are spot on with your analysis. We don't like leaving our hard earned property with strangers, because we probably have a better idea of the problem than the dealer does. And young mechanics have to prove they are at least as good a mechanic as I am. Some of us here in the states don't like going hat in hand to ask for warranty work that is specified in the owner's manual. Age and experience factor heavily in our purchasing choices. Ride safe.
Good vid, and am interested to hear of your experience with the BMWs. I’ve been looking at them but am taking into consideration your thoughts on the bikes. It is very true that the dealerships make a very good or very bad impression, and I’ve avoided BMWs over the years exactly because the local dealership owner is incredibly obnoxious (here in VT, USA).
When BMW came out with some smaller bikes (I’m a 5’6” female), my interest perked up, but after seeing your vid, I’m putting BMWs further down on my “want it” list. I’ve had much luck with Kawasaki brand, in particular. Hondas are ok, but I think Kawasaki offers more for the money.
anything Japanese and you can't go wrong....my two cents...
@@davidwright873 Honda is at the top of the list even with new models. New Africa Twin is already tested to almost 450.000km. Honda Varadero model 1999 here in Austria got over 700.000 and still running on original engine. I bought Honda ST1300 with 155.000 without second though was running great. Honda is I would say on the top of the game regardless reliability.
Many of us older riders of 50+ yrs on the road, have had the same BMW experiences. Based on a comparison to other brands. I agree !
Nice video and I enjoyed hearing your comments. For sure the initial issue was due to something the dealer did during your initial service. So sorry to hear that. I have a pretty good relationship with my dealer, and ALWAYS request the same very qualified technician to work on it. But mistakes can happen by anyone. Safe riding to you.
I 've had BMW bikes since 1999. Plenty of oilheads and hexheads, I bought and sold some that needed work. I broke a couple of driveshafts, 3 of 1150 driveshaft to transmission out put shafts stripped. A couple of throttle body breaks (plastic cam rotors)
Two Clutchs, 2 rear ends, one lock out, (required a new key and computer), one faulty harness, at ground point. A couple of starters, ABS unit, plenty of gas gauge strips.
Mind you, I have always had one or two and 24 years must be 300,000 miles.
For both Japanese car and bike workers in factories, work is life. One mistake is their reputation marred forever - both for the individual, and the supervisor. That's why they're so thorough and precise and it's why their vehicles are so much more reliable and better built. Their kind of mindset and work culture just doesn't exist elsewhere. It's a stressful, monotonous work life but the result is great vehicles.
That's a sobering insight Gregs thanks for sharing that. That's tough. I do wonder if that is too high a price to pay when it comes to quality of life for the poor workers.
I recently read that one of the reasons Japanese citizens who've left Japan don't want go back there is the bland, robot-like character of the people, something that's noticeable just walking the streets of Tokyo or wherever. It matches up with what you said about Japanese workers. It's an ironic thing for most western motorcyclists to hear, since we tend to live to ride (ie enjoy our independence and freedom), not to work like machines ourselves.
@@BikesILike I guess if there's any upside, it is Japan and the workers have a good quality of life generally and aren't exploited like in some countries. It's just the culture there to basically belong to the company, though thankfully times are slowly changing.
@@craigfinnegan8534 That's definitely true. I've worked with Japanese people who feel like they're on a permanent holiday, just because they don't have to conform and can be themselves. That's why so many office workers go out and drink so hard, because they can let go a bit, at least for a little while. The younger generations are breaking free from that way of life more now though and starting to reject the work-til-die culture of old, which is great to see.
@@GregsRandomShite That's really good to hear Greg. I really like Japan and the people of Japan and have a lot of respect for their culture, way of life and the work they do. It would be great if a better balance between work/life could eventually be achieved. 👍
Fully understand! I have four bikes: 2009 R1200RT, ‘97 Honda Valkyrie, 2014 Triumph T100 and ‘94 BMW R1100RS. The RT has spent the most time in the shop. Since I only paid $7,300 for it in 2018 with 13,004 miles, I figure I am doing okay. Don’t think I would buy a new one though-too much money for too many problems. My Valkyrie has been a great bike with 105,000 miles on it.
I started motorcycle riding in 1968. It seems modern bikes are much more complicated. More things to adjust & malfunction. Also I finally settled into riding mid size bikes because I realized that I will never have the fastest bike. I'm 74 & mixing with cars on the road seems much more dangerous now.
I am 74 and you are a young sprog ! I sold my Kawasaki 1000 SX sports tourer (145bhp sit up) 18 months ago. I am a displaced Englishman living in Wisconsin and it's too chuffin hot in Summer (95F) and too cold in Winter 62 degrees below freezing F... In addition, the American idea of a biker is a strutting obese tattooed thug and that isn't me... So no stopping at biker halts. To cap it off the roads are 'grid pattern' with few bends or hills. Boring with only a few darting deer to spice it up. So personal circumstances and location and culture is what it's all about.. I spend my time fettling the cars and tractor now.. I passed my bike tests in Harrogate UK in 1963 and Tampa USA in 2008... Kawasaki is high tech and ACE ! My cars are Toyota ONLY !
@@chevinbarghest8453 My other passion was bicycling. Starting in 1980, I started cycle touring & every year I'd go someplace with my touring bicycle. My longest tour was 5 weeks in Italy when I was 50. Interspersed with "push" biking, I did some "motor" biking. I've owned several motorcycle since 1968 ranging from Yamaha DT1 250 Enduro to a Honda V-65 Sabre. I live in central California near San Francisco. I enjoyed cycling the twisting mountain roads on the peninsula south of SF. I now live 100k East of SF where the roads are straight & boring. On the big Honda, I went south to the Mexico border, east into Nevada & north into BC Canada (mid 1980's). In 2008 I drove my Volvo V50 in Europe for 6 weeks.
@@burkestorti4586 Yeah you are a biker and you have been bitten. I think I have conquered the desire but only coz of the boring roads and extreme climates in Wisconsin. When I lived in Northern England I used to do Western Scotland in a long weekend ! I toured the South of France (Nice/Monaco) via France/Belgium/Germany/ Switzerland/France again via the Alps and the biking was fabulous... I washed my underwear out in the restrooms and dried them by fastening them to a piece of string and trailing it behind the bike at 90mph... I thought "push biking" was an English term? Best all round bike I had was the Kawasaki SX1000. Sit up riding position plus 145hp. HALF the weight of a Harley and HALF the price and DOUBLE the power.... and 150mph...and beautiful aluminum frame
@@chevinbarghest8453 In 1988 I did a 4 week bicycle tour of New Zealand. That is where I learned the term "Push Bike". In 1993 I toured the Alps on my bicycle. On week ends there, I had to dodge crazy motor bikes!
@@burkestorti4586 Excellent ! I did NZ around 1999... Crappy hire car 25 years old kept breaking down.. So did my watch and its on the sea bed at Rangiototo island. After 14 years in the US I have to translate my brain into American ever day. "push bikes" are "pedal cycles" plaster board is dry wall...Spanners are wrenches, boots are trunks and bonnets are hoods.. Electric is up for ON not down and the hot water is the left tap (faucet) not the right..... Then there is the cultural.......laughing at weird names is a definite non-no in the US coz everyone has one (except me)... I mean ....Mrs Hickenlooper ? Whats wrong with Anglo-Saxon 'Sidebottom' or Siddybotham if you are posh ?
In the 1980s I had a BMWR100T, and commuted in and out of London on it for 4 years, plus trips seeing people and touring Scotland on more than one occasion. I took the bike up to 92,000 miles before selling, and during that time all it needed was two new clutch plates, as the others wore down. Apart from that, it never missed a beat. The guy who bought it off me, did a pressure test on the pots as the bike was running, and he said it was like new. I have owned Suzuki (GSXR750), Yamaha (some 550 V twin, a triumph bonneville (old style) and a Honda 125. The BM was by far the most reliable. I know have a BMWR1250R and have done 6000 miles with no issues, but I hope it stays like that. It may be the quality of engineering is not the same as in the past.
So, to summarize: you've had 2 BMWs, one of them was perfect (vibey handlebar notwithstanding, which is obviously something you get on any inline 4) and the other one gave you ONE reliability problem in 25.000km of ownership (the throttle body f*ck up was obviously the result of dealership incompetence). And now, 10 years on, you're still afraid of getting another BMW because of their reliability. Am I getting this right?
That and the constant recalls I seen over the years across the BMW model lineup including gearbox rebuilds on the K series even to this day. And now with all the comments I've seen from the viewers right here on the problems they've had, I am even more "afraid" (to use your terminology)
@@BikesILike You do realize people mainly comment when things go wrong and seldom report amazing experiences, right? And that you'll find horror stories with every single brand, right?
@@motozest7856 Yes. Some more than others
Only reasonable comment in this whole comment section!
I have an old BMW airhead(which is great for a classic) but just through hanging around motorcyclists my whole life and reading/watching online I would not buy a brand new BMW. Why take a chance at the price when you know a big part of the price is manufacturer legacy costs? They have to cut somewhere to be competitive. Feel the same about H-D and KTM. Spoiled by Japanese bikes love me long time.
Valuable share, as a new rider, purpose of purchasing an expensive ass bike should be for features, safety and dependability. This is an eye opener.
Some years back I bought a brand-new BMW K1100RS and except for the horrid oil consumption which BMW told me was inherent in the design of the inline four lying on its side, I liked the bike very much. That was until the dry clutch wore out from playing in the California canyon twisties. As an engineer who financed his engineering degree by working as a mechanic I decided that I was perfectly qualified to replace the clutch myself. I got ahold of the BMW maintenance manual to read over the clutch replacement procedure. I read as far as the SIXTH mention of still another expensive special BMW tool required to essentially remove the entire back half of the motorcycle to get at the clutch assembly, and I threw the book down in disgust. I took the bike to the BMW dealer and threw my credit card at them. 1500 US Dollars later I got the bike back with a brand-new clutch. I immediately sold the bike and have never owned a BMW since. Please don't anyone tell me how privileged I am to own a high-priced piece of crap with inherent and hideously expensive design flaws. I agree with you - buy a quality bike, service it and ride it. I own four Aprilia motorcycles and a Honda, and NONE of them have given me any problems. I still giggle that the Italians do a better job than the Germans.
Honest analysis. The price for MMW motorbike has always put me off. I started with a Japanese Suzuki GSX R-1100 in 1995 and went over to Yamaha V-Max 1200. Everything works fine.
Interesting watch / listen not to mention the complete absence of other road users (I live in South East England), ride a 4 year old V Strom 1000 and yes it’s a budget machine but I kind of know I’ll reach my destination and it’s relatively easy to service etc. So the design is spot on, that said, the materials aren’t the best so you’ll need a really good and regular cleaning regime if you want the thing to last.
I reckon it’s a lottery regarding European bikes, you get the very best but if it’s plagued with issues what’s the bloody point……then again you might get lucky and bag yourself a winner. No doubt they look the best and ride the best, but I’m not sure I’d trade that for perceived unreliability, plus they cost big bucks.
In UK, the ESA suspension was often upgraded with Wilbers shocks and original ride height adjusters. Far better handling and adjustments actually made a useful difference. It’s not a cheap mod but folks rave about it.
My bike needed the whole back end rebuilt at 50K miles. Cost of about £1000 plus my time. I could get a LOT of chains and sprockets for that money.
Gearbox input bearings fail. They sound like a loose cam chain.
Front timing covers rot horribly. I know of one that rotted into a hole that leaked oil.
Alternator casings get split apart as the iron cores rot away.
Fuel tank level senders just don’t.
"My bike needed the whole back end rebuilt at 50K miles. Cost of about £1000 plus my time. I could get a LOT of chains and sprockets for that money. "
^ This is how I reply to people that try to tell me how much more superior shaft drive is.
2004 was the end of an era for BMW. At this point the bean counters took the company over and quality and design suffered. They are fantastic performers....when they are running. Too expensive to maintain and own.
Bean Counters nearly collapsed Toyota back in the day. When management starts listening to them instead of the Marketplace and Customers, it always wrecks the spine of the company.
BMW = "Bring Money With"
@@platoon1081 😂😂😂 Correct...
@@platoon1081 actually Buy More Warranty
I have distinctly noticed that on RUclips, there are many videos of people who report having their motorcycle being completely destroyed by the dealer, and in every case, there was barely anything wrong with the motorcycle, but failed catastrophically after being at the dealer. The dealer ruining motorcycles is a theme that is far too common, and since you're also putting your life in their hands, it means that you can no longer trust or rely on dealers for routine services. Every owner needs to be able to do their own services, or they should not own a motorcycle. Changing oil is very easy, and there is no excuse to allow the risk of damage to your engine by someone else doing it "unsupervised" behind closed doors. See the book, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." I never did finish the book, but apparently it's a really special and very philosophical book about the mindset of Humans and Humanity.
Thanks for sharing your story. I get it. In terms of ride and performance BMWs are on the top. :) Otherwise... on the other hand the story is a lot different. I mean... you can have a lot of problems or none of them but... when you are about to buy a bike, usually you always pick the one you trust as a brand. If you cannot trust a brand, you are not gonna buy it anymore. :) This is just my opinion.
I stayed with you until the end - I agree totally with your findings. My RT, which was great by the way suffered an ABS pump failure, which I understand is fairly common but as it was outside of warranty the costs to me a small fortune to put right, plus it developed oil leaks and the shaft drive became noisy. Not put off I bought a K1300GT and then the fuel sender failed. It was at this point I turned to Honda and just nothing went wrong.
Great well considered review. I have a 2012 BMW R1200R Classic since almost new and an Indian Springfield since new. I absolutely love my BMW and just couldn't bear to sell it. It's an incredible very versatile hot rod. However it's very complex and a really skilled mechanic is essential also for my safety so it only goes to really good workshops. My Indian is electronically complicated but it's not sophisticated like the BMW. It isn't as well made either in some areas. But the Indian has been very reliable although getting good service is more difficult now than it used to be with the dealership closures. Finding good service for the BMW is in fact easier. Very different bikes. I will have to rebaseline my BMW when I start riding it again to simply know that it's all good. This won't be cheap.
Been riding 42 years and the last 20 years have been exclusively BMW. Only one issue, which is sometimes the abs doesn't set itself on my 23 year old R1100RS. I also have an R Nine T purchased by me new in 2017. Zero issues in nearly 20,000 miles. The thing is if you do to any forum for any make of bike you're going to read about issues. I've only had one catastrophic failure back in 1994 when my two month old Yamaha FJ1200 ate itself. That doesn't mean Yamaha is a bad make
I've never owned a BMW, preferring to stick to Triumph or Japanese brands after a particularly bad warranty experience with a Ducati Multistrada. That bike got returned to the dealer 7 times in 18 months and 13,000 miles of ownership. That had electronic suspension fail, surging, rear brake failure, high speed cut outs, clutch slave cylinder, wrong anti freeze from new causing corrosion to the alloy heads! The whole of the rear braking assembly was changed in the end and it still barely had a usable rear brake.
It puts you off a brand even if its all covered by warranty.
Woah! That's really not good. I have to admit Ducati is also a brand I'm wary of because I've heard too many stories like yours Richard.
After a 35 year absence I decided to get back into biking so I bought myself a 2005 Ducati MTS 620. Big mistake! Having visited local dealerships they say all new bikes are more reliable, even the ones with "dubious" reputations for reliability ( e.g. anything Italian or European) Now I am not so sure.
@@peterboczan2116 Actually my oldest son owned a 620 Multistrada about 10 years ago when I had my new 1200 Multi. His bike was actually quite reliable.
The 620 is probably quite rare now.
@@Banditmanuk I have never seen another one on the road. Since being taken over by Audi in 2010 the quality and reliability of Ducati's have allegedly improved but if you've had a bad experience it will still put you off.
BMW takes the rap for Ducati?
For reliability, it's hard to beat the big four Japanese motorcycle manufacturers. BMW can be on the bleeding edge of new tech, but that computer stability control is magic. I like smaller, simpler bikes. I bought a new 2019 BMW G310GS. It was one of the bikes that had the initial set of recalls done, which I think was the kickstand, stator and brakes. It was returned to the dealer just before the 2021 bikes were scheduled to arrive so BMW knocked US$1000 off the price and the dealer knocked off another $400, so I got it for $4920 out the door with the full three year factory warranty. I did the 1000 km service myself and it was easy. It's needed no service other than that. It's not good for highway cruising, but I bought it for zipping around town, secondary roads, dirt and gravel roads, and ADV motorcycle camping. I'm loving it. I was surprised that it was as good as it was on the highway. It's a bit buzzy and it gets blown around because it's lightweight, but it'll cruise at 110 KPH for hours.
The larger BMWs have had shaft drive problems. I think they sold them as maintenance free but they are best considered as low maintenance. I'd change the final drive oil every year or two.
Here in the US, the used big BMW bikes are so low priced in the winter that they seem like theft. I think that's marketing driven. A lot of guys watch Long Way Round, retire, and buy a big BMW with dreams of open road travel adventures. A few years later they don't have much energy, the prostate acts up, or whatever. I've seen half price bikes that never made it to the break-in service interval.
You mentioned Tesla service, but my biggest issue with Tesla is the way the car spies on drivers and sends all of the data back to Tesla. If Tesla ever decides you violated their terms of service, they remotely disable the car and it's totaled. I'd never feel that I owned a Tesla.
Many Americans may be more tolerant of warranty service, but I have more of a durable goods view of cars than you do. I wouldn't buy a Hyundai, and I certainly wouldn't buy a GM or Ford. I want to keep a car for decades, so I get a good Japanese car. Do whatever it takes to avoid frame corrosion, and do regular synthetic oil and filter changes. Hyundai has the reputation of five years of trouble free ownership and then everything starts to break. It's not a 500,000 km vehicle. If you trade vehicles every five years it's probably OK.
*Does your BMW 310 have Hazard Lights?*
@@apexxxx10 - No hazard lights. BMW motorcycles never break down on the side of the road so they don't need hazard lights. I thought that odd. I assumed that homologation and regulation would require all vehicles to have hazard lights. In practice, I'd get as far off the road as possible and I'd leave a turn signal on to draw attention to myself parked on the side of the road.
I appreciate your commentary and find that your BMW experiences align with my observations of fellow riders who owned BMWs in the past. I've had a good experience with my Harley-Davidson ElectraGlide which I bought new in 1994. It now shows 100,000+ miles on the odometer with only routine maintenance in it's history. However, compared to BMWs and most modern bikes, it is a very simple machine with a carburetor, push rods and a kevlar belt for final drive. Now I want a new bike that will perform better on gravel and dirt roads. I just bought a Kawi KLR650 as a "primer" off-road tourer, and I have been really interested in the BMW 1250 GSA. However, maybe the Pan America might be worth looking at - even though I'm not certain Harley has the bugs worked out of the design. Of course there's always the reliable Africa Twin or T700. can you buy a Yamaha T7 World Raid model where you live? We can't get them yet in California. Thanks again for your very interesting video.
Kent, no offense , but Harley's are an American disappointment to me. Are theyAmerican made? No ! Mexico and other countries supply a lot of their parts these days. One thing I learned from my 2006 Harley Deuce is that you can just breath on Harleys chrome parts and they pit and rust., also, I have a brother-in-law that bought an '07 Deuce after seeing and riding mine, and his clutch shaft bearing went out at 15K mi. Unbelievable ! Never another Harley for me. Kawasaki ? Now Honda, there's a great bike, as well as Yamaha, and Suzuki. I feel you can't go wrong with any of them, but , I am 69 yrs old and have been riding for 56 yrs in the dirt, dual sport, and the road. I have owned about everything out there, British, i.e., Triumph, Norton, BSA, German, Japanese, Bultaco's from Spain, and even Hodaka's. I have ridden Ducati's, and Moto Guzzi's. I am now on my fourth BMW and have found what I consider the, B.est M.ototrcycle in the W.orld. That is BMW ! From their liquid cooled four cylinders to the air cooled boxer engine, I've loved and been impressed with them all. To me no one builds a better bike than BMW.
I took a test ride on the PA. It has the beans for sure, but it had oddities for me, but I am an outlier. I needed to lower the pegs and the windscreen was nearly useless, but I'm 6'5. I think the M8 engines are pretty reliable. I might buy a HD before I would buy a BMW again. The might is because of the tribal non-sense that goes along with it. I am not tribal about much if anything.
My brother said the same as you! So when he had the choice of a large adventure bike he bought a Honda Africa Twin! It's one hell of a machine!
I live in the USA and our roads and riding styles are different than Australia. I have considered BMW, but all of my friends who own them have told me that while they like them, that they are costly to maintain. I own a Victory Vision Premium Tour and both my friends and our local dealership have recommended I never sell it. It is very reliable and inexpensive to maintain plus a very comfortable motorcycle. I am 6' 5" tall and 280 lbs and fit well on it, but even my shorter friends are comfortable on it. Reliability and maintenance friendly bikes, like automobiles, are always your best bet. It is definitely a let down to spend the best riding days in a car because your bike is in the shop or waiting for parts.
I think this is a very misleading comment about maintenance costs and reliability. If you compare the “recommended maintenance” for all of the major brands (including victory), they are all pretty similar. Fluids (engine oil, trans, diff, coolant, and brake fluid flush) are all recommended. All dealerships now typically charge $100 -$135/hour for labor and yes that’s expensive for all bikes. There are not any bikes that don’t need these maintenance services. You can do it or not do it, and you can even do it yourself at dramatically reduced cost….it’s up to you. Many require/recommend valve adjustments and that’s costly as well. But…..you just can’t compare dealer performed maintenance costs with either doing it yourself or, worse yet, not doing it at all and then using it as a reason to not buy a certain brand. I often perform my own maintenance for most items on my BMWs but I do it because I like doing it, not because of cost.
I paid $4,500 for my 2007 K1200R Sport. I have had it for 3 years and it has been flawless. I have put 8,000 miles on it and run it hard. Couldn't be happier.
Loved your video thanks for posting it, I'm somewhat off track here but i was amazed at the roads you were on, and the fact that you could drive so far without the smallest village or shopping center, having never been on a trip to Australia, as a brit on the roads we are so used to being constantly passing through small towns or villages , As for the BMW bike stories ,it must be simply heartbreaking ,when like us here we assume everything german is the best thing since sliced bread ,anyway thanks again,BFN from the uk,
Thanks Peter! Yeah I've met overseas travellers travelling here for the first time and they are amazed at how spread out everything is. It's a big country for sure.
@peter ryan,
Don’t think all Aussie country roads are gun-barrel straight. There are lots of roads that are much better than this! I wouldn’t buy a motorcycle if this was all there was to ride! Lol.
@@MaxFromSydney1 many thanks for your reply, I really should have made a trip over there to oz, I think what put me off is simply that flight time, but i love hearing all about it from people like yourself, anyway getting back to bikes i have had one fairly recently, but i am 74 and thought it was time to pack it in. but thanks so much for your message,.
Don't take one man's experience as The Gospel. There is a lemon or defective mechanical product in everything manmade. I have owned four BMW motorcycles and am still with my fourth, and have had nothing but excellent service from them all, whether liquid cooled four cylinder models or Two cylinder Boxer engine models, they've all been excellent. Nothing unusual or abnormal. Just stick the key in, hit the starter button , and ride, period !
You can get Japanese lemons too, when I bough my bike, a '21 Honda CB650R, I was happily riding on the freeway 3 days after getting it out of the dealership, when suddenly I look down to the instrument cluster and the temp gauge was flashing. I was near an exit so I pull the clutch to stop loading the engine and BAM, engine shuts down, probably locked up. I coast to a safe place, ring the dealership, get the bike on a flatbed and a month and a bit later I have a new '22 plate CB650R. The poor thing only had 400km on the odo. And it was a Honda! And with a very robust, proven engine.
This guy takes forever and a day to tell a simple story. Nice way to make a 3 minute video into 18 mins.
I bought a Harley-Davidson 20 years ago and just did basic maintenance and its been great. I have 85,000 miles on it now.
I’ve had 5 BMWs and the last 1150GS had 12 warranty claims, brake problems/total loss of brakes, fuel leaks, and clutch, which they had to split the bike in half to get the gearbox out!
I wrote to BMW asking would they extend the warranty. They replied no, that they built a superior machine, and if I wanted to extend the warranty, I could do so through my dealer. I sold the bike, and have never wanted to buy another BMW because of their Germanic attitude.
You must had some very unusual problem RT, shouldn't give up just because of that. I have an older RS for 5 years now with close to 100 000 miles (160 000 km), the only problem I had was the fuel leaked from the fuel line close to the tank but a simple replacement solved it, never anything after/before that. I don't take mine to the dealer but know a bike mechanic who works on BMW bikes, he does a fantastic job of tuning/maintaining my bike each year for less than 1/2 price of the dealer. Before the RS I had a 600 cc Yamaha with only 40 000 miles and considerable issues every single year (clutch cable breaking, constant carburetor flooding issues, automatic fuel valve malfunction, intake leaking, oil fumes from crank case going into the starter motor disabling it ... etc.), had to take that bike apart at least once a year, not to mention it was unstable on the road especially in winds, uncomfortable especially with a rider on. I am very happy with my BMW, logging in long trip miles while also using it for daily commuting, it's a joy ride especially after the 8 years of constant headache with the Yamaha.
I have been riding my K1300S since 2014. It has always had great experiences with this bike, it's done almost 140,000kms now. There are better dealerships than others, the last one charged $1100aud for it's 130,000 service, fair enough. Three weeks later I pulled over because the temperature was running really high. Fluid was running everywhere. It turns out that the thermostat had seized, something I would have thought they'd picked up on the big service. This cost $750aud. Apparently, according to the dealer, there have been some other expensive jobs that need to be done on the bike, some that I have decided to take to auto electricians, etc that have costed one tenth of the cost quoted buy the BMW dealer. I don't know, the K1300S might be running too well, so there's no real need to buy another one and they've decided to try to drag a new bike out of the old one? Really disappointed with BMW, until recently, I thought they were the best.
Do you experience vibrations at 4000 revs on your K1300S? I didn’t have that issue.
@@lucsmeets4789 Nah, after a while it settles down. They do a few things that may raise an eyebrow but it's nothing to worry about. On a cold morning the cam chain has a quick rattle on start up. It takes a second for the oil to kick in. For the uninitiated it can be concerning but it's really nothing to worry about. Just be careful starting on winter mornings.
I totally agree with your standpoint, even as I'm a happy R1200RS owner with 56.000 km on my 2016. Never had any issues with mine (knock on wood), but I consider myself lucky as I know the poor track record BMW have with various models. I test rode the RS in the spring 2015 and loved the model immediately, but deliberately waited over one year as I refuse to buy a first year model of a BMW as they usually have alot of trouble with new models.The dad to a friend of mine worked at a BMW/Yamaha service workshop. Yamaha had 2 binders with recall orders, BMW had 2 shelf meters with recall binders....
The R1200RS is the best bike I ever had in 40+ years of riding, and it's a keeper. Not because it's a BMW, but despite it's a BMW. (Im a Kawaholic ❤ in soul and hart).
Agree 100% with you. IMO BMW quality is dire and the Chinese Loncin engine range are so uninspiring. The older boxers were beautiful engined bikes but those days of quality materials are long gone. I'll stick with Japanese bikes now.
Don’t understand the “quality is dire” comment. BMWs are known and respected for their ability to perform for hundreds of thousands of miles. Sorry, but the Japanese bikes just won’t do that. Even if they would, parts aren’t available for more than 7 or so years unless you are lucky enough to find them as new old stock. Not saying the Japanese bikes are not any good, but they’re not designed to last for 50, 60, 70+ years like BMWs are. You can still easily buy a 50 year old BMW bike and it will still be worth something 50+ years from now and parts will be available. Can’t do that with a Honda.
@@georgeh3778 There is plenty of evidence of early BMW product engine failures as result of them fitting very low quality components (timing chains, guides etc) US , UK and European consumer protection groups have plenty of online data freely available that does not read well for them. I have personal experience of this, they shafted me once, I'm not going back for more. Well done to you if you've not yet been a victim. Munich needs to treat its customers with respect and ensure only quality parts are fitted. Alternatively, if they get it wrong, as everyone does, give some commercial support.
@@raycollington4310 Yamaha R1 has had 10,000+ engine and transmission failures = That evidence The Honda cbr 1000RRR ecu burning out , the bike runs so hot it melts oil cooler lines , 2020 model recalled for bad connecting rods ..the bike is a lemon .
Ray , are you a “ retro “ kind of guy 😂….. The Japanese have failed to develop their bikes. They don’t even make a bike that can compete with an RT or GS !
Your post is ridiculous, was it meant as humour ?
@@raycollington4310 how has the “plenty of evidence of BMW product engine failures”managed to slip by all the owners who have acquired and operated their new and classic BMW bikes for so many years? You say “they shafted me once” and I’m not sure what that means but it does tell me that you have very limited experience with BMWs and you probably lack any significant experience with BMWs. As an owner of 15 BMW bikes for going on 50 years of pretty much trouble free service I’m just not buying your biased and apparently uninformed characterizations . My experience is not unique and I’m not just lucky either. There are far too many very satisfied BMW owners out there (spanning a VERY long period of time) for your blanket statements have any basis.
Two years ago i bought r1200rt (2012). It had 95k kilometers on it. Now it has 145k on it and have to say that in my experience it is way more comfortable than my old Honda st1100 and 1300.
The only thing i hate about the BMW is the attitude of my dealership. They charging money for their work (ok i accept it) but some times i have to wait for 20 minuut job for several days. So I just bought some equipment and now doing services myself. I guess that's why they don't like me. But still love my RT.
By the way I always have the feeling that they keep trying to sell some ..it my bike don't need🤗
Recently I changed my 1200rt to 1250rt '23. On my old one I had 180k km. And it was still running smoothly but I had feeling that my clutch was getting "tired" and driveshaft was also looking not fine anymore. So now I have 1250rt.
I drove almost 20 000 km on it and You know I regret buying full option bike. First - the software. I found several bugs but the only thing the dealer could say is that they are sorry.
Second - buttons. In the rain some of them just stopped working. Remembering that bike is from end of the '23 it's very sad.
Few times I was having hard time because boxes where opening and closing every 10-20 seconds...
Third - Bluetooth connection. They were not able to fix the sound problems. So I am just using my cardo edge as a standalone headset connected to my phone and only Bluetooth with bike for navigation.
Navigation - they where not able to put a memory card in it. Long story short - it's a birdshit.
Keyless system. It's nice option but useless if it's freezing. Twice I was not able to tank because I could not open it.
So if you going to get a new bmw r1250rt don't take that expensive extras if you are going to use them. It's kind of cool to have them but they are useless.
1250rt is very comfortable, smooth. If I had this knowledge I would buy basic version.
Totally agree, having to return again and again for recalls or warranty work is a real pain. It’s like they think we haven’t got anything better to do. Thankfully not really had that issue with bikes but both our vans have been back time and again. Puts you right off particularly when you get it back not properly fixed. In your case could have been very serious had you not stayed upright!
That’s the price you pay for riding cutting edge technology. You become part of the research and development process. You can buy a good old tried and true BMW model and you won’t have to deal with any warranty or recall work.
His complaint was a vibe that i'm not sure he even talked to the dealer about on one bike then something that seems to have been caused by the dealers service department during a routine service and 1 failure which he says was sorted by the dealer in one visit The bike then ran for 25k odd with no more trouble then he sold it , doesn't sound too bad to me . Skid sounds more like ice than oil , in that it happened in a straight line with no brake app etc and it didn't happen again between then and the 1500 km that he noticed the oil !! Have i had experience with ice - Yes 15 years commuting year round on various bikes - early morning starts in a Valley notorious for frosts !!
Things that BMW has not addressed until too late - rear shock leaking fluid, driveshaft blowing on GS and leaking fluid, front brakes leaking fluid, rear spokes on laces GS wheels loosen causing catastrophic failure at speed, front suspension on GS separating at speed. That all is in the last 10 years. I owned 5. My GTL was leaking coolant from a weep valve at 1500 miles. That leaks in front of your rear tire at speed. They had to replace these on several bikes. These failures kill and paralyze people. I know two people who crashed at speed with the GSA spoked wheel failure. One was ok and the other crashed at 80mph and is partially paralyzed. I sold BMW for a couple of years as well. That is when I started seeing all the constant stop sales. What is clear if you get familiar with them from the inside is that they have zero quality control. Bikes coming to the US with not DOT blinkers or rear brakes. Bikes coming to the US with no DOT required reflectors. Simple things that show the complete lack of direction and detail. Is it any wonder they would have catastrophic failures if they cannot get the US required blinkers right? They cut corners and started using the Hayes brakes on the new 1250GS. They leaked fluid on the floors of the dealerships like old Harley’s. We had to wipe up dime sized spots beneath the front brakes. They went back to Brembo after two years of this, TWO years. The new 850 and 750 came in and we couldn’t even sell them. The first ones sounded like a bag of hammers when you fired them. The 1600 transmission has been a fiasco. I would not touch one of those used for $1000. The 18K service on a 1600 is north of $1000 by the way. Sounds like I trashed them, huh? I owned five in a row and sold them after owning them. They have major problems and everything I said is true and known issues. The money you pay for the BMW is not worth it considering the issues with quality and safety. They do have some cool gadgets on the bike but those gadgets are also a big issue down the road. You cannot rebuild the BMW electronic suspension. Eventually you will end up spending $2000 or more to replace the front mono shock and around $6000 to replace the rear shock on R bikes. They do have a great warranty. Three years and 36k. Buy one buy get rid of it before that warranty is over and if you plan on keeping it buy an extended warranty because most likely you will make out like a bandit. If you can do your maintenance no big deal but if you cannot the dealership is $400 for an oil change. I truly love riding them and they are engineered in such a thoughtful way for the rider. They just miss it on the joy of ownership. If they could match that with the joy of riding them then they would be worth the money.
One thing that I've always heard about BMW (bikes and cars) and Mercedes-Benz is that people usually unload them right after the warranty expires. That's when things start going wrong and the repair costs are outrageous. My neighbor bought a used Mercedes-Benz AMG that was a few years old. He got what he thought was a really good price. He sold it less than 6 months later because the repair bills were draining his bank account. I find it hard to understand how those two brands command the prices that they do.
mi honda interceptor VF 1000 F from 1984 agrees with all what you explain just check fluids make the services and ride it 50 years
I had 1 BMW 330xd and a K1600GT and a R1250R
The car was absolutely awesome. Tuned to 300HP and 700Nm (yes, 7 hundred) on a manual box. Never had any problem. Sold it after 140.000km to a friend who kept it until it reached 285.000km. Without even having to change the clutch... luckily, probably, because BMW service in Belgium is far from excellent. 95% of their cars are company cars with rules I wouldn't accept for my lawnmower.
As far as my bikes are concerned, I have to admit it is NOT as reliable as the Hondas I used to ride. But service is absolutely perfect, professionnal and efficient (BMW Motorrad Waterloo - south of Brussels). They even changed the whole gearbox of my K16 because it had a very very small oil leak through the joint between gearbox and reverse "gear" casket. They could have let me wait for a casket to be available at the factory, but it was simply not. So they changed the whole box + reverse. Problem solve under warranty (I always buy my bikes with 2+3 years factory warranty, which is linked to the bike, not the owner: when I sell my bike, they still are covered for 2 years, even if they show 60.000km at the odometer.
I have to add I always respect oil checking, do the service on time. It is a bit more expensive than on a honda (if there not too many parts to order). But it makes me more relax and happy to know I'm covered.
And most of all, I have bikes that loves to lean, be pushed hard sometimes, and many very efficient electronic "tricks". I have my driver's license since 1985, so When I say these bikes are 500% safer than 25 years ago, you can just beleive me (or lie to yourself/ or be a Moto GP champion -I'm far from that)
For the moment, I'm waiting for my brand new 2022 R1250RT. The motor itself will never be as good as the in-line 6 of the K16, but i'm becoming too old to ride 350kg of metal. My K16 fell twice... in front of my garage (ahem) and I am not strong enough or crazy enough to try again this kind of power-lifting. The RT is around 70kg lighter than my late K16 and only 38kg more than my R1250R (that will be for sale in 10-15 days).
And I have to say I like the sound of the flat twin with the sport exhaust (actually, it's simple: titanium Akrapovic).
Enjoy your ride, the one that you love.
And above all, drive with your brain to stay safe and avoid the dangerous cars with iphone addicts hidden somewhere around the steering wheel. Shame on them. And shame on the Belgian police for doing next to nothing to limit and punish the use of phone while driving (facebook, yesssss, youtube, yeah too, no risk in Belgium: I HATE THAT, it KILLS)
I love my BMW bikes.
I have a 2005 R850R and a 2002 R1150GS, both of them go nowhere near any garages, all DIY maintained.
Even the service manager at the local BMW dealership suggested it might be a mistake ‘upgrading’
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I considered the k1300 when shopping but went for a VFR1200F, I own a BMW X1 and its been very reliable but when something does need to get repaired it’s very difficult to DIY and expensive to have it done. I’m enjoying the Honda very much.
I actually considered and test rode the VFR1200F when I bought the K1300S. It seems we were both on the same page. 😉
Currently in USA and writing older boxer 1100 or 1150 twins.. Previously a number of triumph triples which I highly recommend. The BMW's were Very reasonable used price. Being About 20 years old. Not any high mountain use but what 1 of them is approaching 60000 miles.. Not doing any big mileage yet.. I enjoy most things about the BMW but also I highly recommend the triumph triples... The most fun were speed triples Good luck out there...
I think BMW, as with any manufacturer can have it’s “Friday” bikes.The problems with the RT you’d mentioned didn’t look to be the fault of BMW it’s self, but rather the dealership in the case of your throttle body issue, and the OEM of the rear shock failure in the loss of control incident. I have a 2018 BMW K1600GT which indeed had it’s share of teething problems. The first was BMW’s failure to completely remove the corrosion protection from the pins in the cannon plug connecting the engine ECU to the bike’s main wiring loom. This resulted in a check engine light, the engine idling at 2000 RPM after start up and failing to rev higher than 3000 RPM regardless of how much I twisted the throttle. Thankfully the issue resolved itself and didn’t leave me stranded. The dealership cleaned the pins with no further issues. I can definitely “pin” that one on BMW. The other two problems were likely caused by the OEM parts suppliers. The transmission recall and the faulty Sprague clutch on the starter. Both items were repaired under warranty, and the bike has run flawlessly since with just under 25000 km’s on it. My other bike is definitely a Wednesday bike, a 2021 R1250 GSA. I’ve owned it for a year now, with 8000 trouble free kilometres on it.
So true... When you buy a bike nowadays you have to take a peek at the maintenance area where the mechanics work just to see how organized they look, and if they really are professional! Also ask some questions. Ask the mechanic some questions about the bike you want to buy, and see the attitudes of that specific dept.
I have OCD and perfection and order is hard to come by, I've had many bikes, expensive Ducati bikes, mostly. And each service was very expensive !! I've learned that it made more sense to get a not so big bike for many reasons... we all know Japanese bikes are solid, some what expensive, but doable. But there are a ton of motorcycle companies in today's market!
So I went all the way from 1200cc -1000cc to 350cc!!
I figured that 40 horse power would be sufficient for traveling, and other outings...
The type of bike that works for you, yep, touchy subject, right!?
This for me is most important, it must have...
Great gas mileage, heavy enough for me to pick up if I go down, comfortable, reliable, and good looking. And most importantly, that parts and service intervals be affordable. Would you believe that this way I spent 6-9 times less than with a big expensive bike... Not to mention, insurance!
In the end it's what ever works for you. I am super glad I came down this road, and to find out a 350 cc is plenty, and way, way cheaper to maintain. All this down sizing played tricks on my brain at first, but at 62 years old, it was a wise choice.
Safe riding my friend
In a European survey from a couple of years ago regarding reliability, top of the list was Yamaha and at the very bottom BMW. Most surprising though, was that the bikes you'd most expect to have done poorly, ie Harley Davidson, were in fact very reliable.
@Captain and Marples And without doubt they're beautiful. I'd love one!
Harleys are dang reliable since the introduction of the Evo engines.
True. Although European bikes have broadly improved on reliability, they still trail the Japanese in this area. The problem is that the Japanese seem to struggle to make a decent looking bike. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but Yamaha have yet to build a decent looking bike, Honda have merely a couple, Suzuki barely one and Kawasaki seem to be doing OK in terms of aesthetics. European bikes, on the other hand, are drop-dead gorgeous.
I own both Japanese and European bikes and I find that the Europeans have soul and there is a point to riding them beyond than just getting from A to B. Having said that, you just can't trump reliability. Oh, and another thing: some people seem to confuse reliability with build quality. From my experience the Japanese are super reliable but really manure on build quality with rust starting to appear within days of purchase. On the other hand, the BMW I have is made of premium quality materials. I treat all my bikes equally badly but there is still a hint of rust to appear on my R1200R after 12 years! I've had bikes from three of the four Japanese marques and the quality of the materials (although reliable) is really poor. Just my two-pennies' worth ...
@@nadyamifsud373 You're bang on the money! Especially regarding the rust issue. Japanese bikes are reliable but for how long? I've seen constantly niggly Harleys that have covered 200000 miles and still going and showing no signs of giving up. That's a kind of reliability.
Yet, of my 40+ bikes owned over 60 years of riding, Harley is the only on that left me stranded. (Blown engine)
I've had 4 Beemers in a row: '75 R90/6 bought new in 1976, that I rode for 10 yrs.; a '74 R90S I bought after that, just restored by the dealer (Daytona Orange, Lester cast wheels, some other goodies) - wish I still had that one, as they're pure unobtanium now, rode it 10 yrs.; an '89 K100RS ABS Special (white w/blue) which was an appliance, nothing more (8 yrs.); and finally a '96 K1100RS in ArrestMe Red, which was a joy, a quiet, competent rocketship. I got a VERY expensive speeding ticket on it. For personal reasons, I dropped out of riding for nearly a decade. A while back, I decided I wanted to get back in the wind, but I absolutely knew I had to slow down, so now I ride a HD '03 Springer Softail. LOL - my gf and I enjoy riding country roads looking for ice cream at about 45, 50 mph. I'm totally off the interstate. Too many distracted/impaired drivers at too high speeds. Do I miss the BMWs? Yes and no. I miss the twins because they were so easy to work on, handled quite acceptably for what they were, AND they were stone reliable. The Ks, not so much, although the 1100 gave me years of good riding. I did consider a K12RS, but passed - like I said, I needed to slow down! Ride safe!
BMW owner in recovery here.......
I've owned three and while the performance and handling were great, serviceability not so much.
My last Bimmer was a K1200LT. I swear they built the motorcycle completely AROUND the air filter. Hours and hours of work just to get access to a filter the size of a small bible and 6 screws.
Ridiculous.
There is no godly reason they couldnt have shaped the airbox offset to one side and shaped the plastic fuel tank so would one could have access to the filter by NOT having to remove all the body panels, fuel tank, stereo, seat frame, etc.
Just stupid.
As a rule, BMW makes the difficult maintenance tasks relatively easy and the easy maintenance tasks like pil changes, battery changes, coolant flushes, etc A LOT harder than they really need be.
I've always also been a Yamaha fanboy and because of the ease of owner serviceability the FJR1300 and Super Tenere were on my short list of bikes and ultimately the off-rpad capability and lpwer insurance costs of the Super Tenere won out.
I love the bike and put nearly 2000 miles on it in the first week of ownership.
It was a used bike and as I familiarized myself with the locations of the battery, fuses, relays, air box, etc I realized I made the right choice.
I have a 2004 BMW K1200RS I bought used in 2011 with 20k miles. I’m 6’4” tall and bought it for long distance touring. Added a tall Parabelum windshield but still can’t get relief from the wind. Overall the bike is nice to ride, especially in the twisty roads of the Blueridge Mountains and Rocky Mountains. As you stated accessibility for routine maintenance absolutely sucks! Having the dealer do any work costs $$$$$! I like the new bmw touring bikes but am leery about maintenance costs. I’m also considering the Honda Goldwing so both are in the same price range. One thing I don’t like about Honda dealers, none of them will let you test ride the bike! The Beamer dealer has no issue letting you test ride their bikes. If I’m spending over $25k for a new bike I damn well want to try it out first!
Can't stand the way they look personally, but two my friend's BMWs have had major mechanical problems rendering them effectively worthless (were sold for parts)