Russell T Davies vs Regeneration | Doctor Who 60th Anniversary
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- Today, we are going to time travel through the incarnations of the Doctor to better examine how Russel T. Davies' battles the inevitable with regard to one of the most iconic characteristics of the Doctor: Regeneration.
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Chapters: Introduction: 00:00
A Quick Recap: 01:13
Chapter 1: I Don't Want To (Let) Go: 02:00
Chapter 2: Or Is He?: 06:45
Chapter 3: He REALLY Doesn't Want To Go: 09:15
Conclusion: 15:04
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#doctorwho #Regeneration #ncutigatwa #davidtennant 
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Thanks to everyone who attended the premiere! As @MrValravnen, it's so much fun to see the premiere squad arise, and getting to know everyone who comes to enjoy our work is one of the most wonderful parts. Let us know how you felt about this time slot for premieres, the feedback is incredibly helpful!
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Tbh I like the fan-plot of the 60th anniversary SO much more: that 10 and Donna were brought back because they were the Toymakers favourite Doctor and companion and didn’t want them to go, reflecting toxic fandom in never moving forward
Very meta.
I personally think the toymaker was super under-utilized. In the Confidential episode, Davies explains that he had the idea for scary puppets first and thought of the toymaker as a puppet-master afterwards, which I think explains why his involvement is so inconsequential. It could have been anyone who set up the puppet giggle brainwash, but it was the toymaker because....well, why not?
They also missed an opportunity to tell a story with the Curator and expand on it ever so slightly. I think there is something very Doctor Who-y and time-travel-y if we had a story that only gets updates once a decade -- or on special occasions. That's my fan-plot
@@idlescree Yeah, I got told off on Tumblr for saying I wished they had had him in Jodie's clothes (I am okay with them magically being big enough) because it would exacerbate antitrans hate. Well, I can't say it wouldn't, so. Having a fairy tale reason for the clothes change would have been interesting, yes.
Well it's not as if the clothes haven't always magically fit, and it's not as if 13 magically got feminine clothes zapped onto her from Capaldi's regeneration. That's not to say anything on any broader narrative, but there's a distinct lack of an in-universe reason why this should happen which directly lead to a lot of exciting speculation about the reason -- which we found out later didn't exist.
"I did something unprecedented in the story for unrelated meta reasons" is just always unsatisfying. If we were willing to take that for an answer, they wouldn't have needed to invent regeneration as a concept -- simply say "we changed the guy because the other guy couldn't do it anymore."
Again, this is to say nothing on how strange it is for famously groundbreaking progressive TV writer RTD to let the threat of vague, and incorrect, bigotry control his creative decisions.
-The Bird
@@idlescree Exactly. It's not as if they could have expected the show to last this long, so just replacing the actor and the audience accepting that would have been a big issue.
I know Jodie’s tenure has otherwise been hit or miss, but her last line before she regenerates was PERFECT
"Doctor Whoever I'm about to be" is such a fun play on a more human attitude of "this is future-me's problem." She definitely considers whoever she's about to be to still be her, and happily gives in to that growth. It's a genuine shame that her characterisation wasn't up to the standards of most other Doctors, and I know we're all counting down the days until audio stories flesh her out and make that ending hit so much harder.
-The Bird
Bigeneration really does feel like they're taking a bit of the spotlight away from 15. It makes him feel a little less special knowing there's a second doctor running around. I like Tennants portrayal as much as the next guy, but I think they should have just let the doctor move on once 14's story was over.
Yeah it feels weird to divide the spotlight, and especially when 14 is supposed to mark the end of the 1-14 'no rest' adventuring, and 15 is treated almost like a new character taking the torch. Odd choices all round, fingers crossed Gatwa's era shines bright enough that we can appreciate it without the baggage of the 60th Anniversary's controversial decisions :)
-The Bird
Also wanted to say that personally, i really like war doctor's regeneration into 9. It really fits into the themes you mentioned in this video. War Doctor was able to recapture his vigor and lust for life by seeing the men he becomes down the line. He's given his hope back and is willing to accept change, just in the nick of time since his body had taken all the beating it could take at that point. And we get a eloquently put, "oh guess it's about time," as we see 9's charming grin. Ready to greet the world as the first step to becoming those men he admires. I am a bit biased since 9 is my favorite doctor though.
I covered it a bit in our video on the 50th Anniversary Miracle, but there's definitely something so special about the War Doctor's lesson to his future selves and their lessons to him. It always felt to me like by the time we meet the War Doctor he has been holding himself together with sheer force of will. When he is finally content with himself and his actions (re: "I am the Doctor again) he relaxes himself enough, allows his tortured self to unwind enough, that a regeneration that was probably held back a long time finally washes over him. Like the world's most relaxing exhale.
-The Bird
Nine is my favorite too.
Something interesting I saw in an interview somewhere - basically, RTD said he wasn't a fan of multi-doctor stories, and I believe the reason he gave is that he doesn't see them all as the Doctor, he sees different people, he can only focus on one as the Doctor it seems. It's a small thing, but it lowkey confirms the suspicions of things like this video.
Then compare to people like Peter Capaldi who are straight up like "Doctor Who is about death", except it's in a way that acknowledges its inevitability and that change is something that has to happen even if it's hard. So despite on the surface saying something similar, someone like Capaldi actually embraces the change that comes with it.
Oh did he really? I might not have seen that interview, if you happen to know where it was said I would love a link! I remember Chris Eccleston saying he didn't enjoy multi doctors because he felt the stories were always about multi-doctor gimmicks rather than being a strong story first which just happens to feature multiple Doctors. This was pre-50th Anniversary I believe.
I guess to his credit, The Five Doctors/The Two Doctors/Dimensions in Time aren't exactly remembered for their ground breaking story .-.
-The Bird
@@idlescree I tend to not love them either (I'm open, though) because they are the same person. Although Capaldi and Bradley were kind of interesting for that same reason. Think how appalled we all are sometimes over how we have been in the past.
@HuntingViolets I think I like Twice Upon A Time because it doesn't depend on cameo for substance. It's an episode about the Doctor, who wants to die, having to convince another suicidal person to go on. In doing so, he rediscovers what makes his life worth living. It just so happens that the other person is a younger version of himself.
-The Bird
It's funny and kinda telling to me that the last line of RTD's (first) era is "I don't want to go" and the last line of Moffat's era is "Doctor, I let you go." Completely opposite notes to end on.
Fantastic analysis. I've always felt eh on The End of Time, and the way it treats regeneration is the main reason why. Putting in the context of the other regenerations helps to illustrate my feelings on that. Subbed.
Yeah, I didn't like the farewell tour of that either. The Doctor is not an aging rock star.
Thank you so much for watching and supporting with a sub! RUclips doesn't really push our Doctor Who content so that really means a lot to all of us. Good spot on the actual final-written-lines from each showrunner being specifically about letting go! While I thought the Capaldi speech was a bit of a hat on a hat, it has offered us that stark contrast with Davies' last written words :D
-The Bird
I so agree. Ten's reincarnation was too melodramatic, too self-absorbed, and quite frankly after all these years rather sulky and indulgent. Ten's great Doctor has been over years been diminished culminating with the dreadful 14 it is him and not him rubbish. Yes, RTD brought DW back but some of his ridiculous OTT drama queen material has dated badly. It rather reflects RTD himself - a very creative talent but so absorbed with overt excess emotionalism and sense of self-importance. I wish ten's regeneration could be re-written. It does however show how brilliant Matt Smith and Capaldi were at being near completely selfless and always putting others first. Ten thought he was the best whereas twelve questioned his own being. This is a superb post. I hope many see this video clip. 14 anting to spend his days on Earth having afternoon tea in a residential house is just completely put of character and was just as bad a decision as the Timeless Child. In essence the biggest problem was that both the tenth Doctor and RTD are both rather up themselves with huge egos.
That's a good point regarding Capaldi's Doctor -- that he doubts himself out of the gate. That really makes his regeneration stand in such strong contrast to 10. We did mention in this video that 10 refused because he didn't want to die but 12 refused because he didn't want to live; but I hadn't recalled specifically the Season 8 self-doubt which became Season 9's "going too far" which becomes Season 10's "I can't go on anymore". You couldn't ask for a stronger opposite to 10's entire approach to life!
-The Bird
Holy moly this deserves so many more views than it has! I’ve been watching ur channel for a while at this point and u just continue to amaze with banger video after banger video. Tysm
Thank you so much! Unfortunately RUclips doesn't like to push videos like these to our subscribers or to a wider audience since they're a step away from our usual subject matter, so it's up to you kind people to spread the word x0x
It means so much to us that the people who are seeing it are really enjoying it!
-The Bird
Second comment for the algorithm, but it kind of feels a bit like 10th doctor is a favourite OC of Russel T Davies', and he's being a little too precious with his darlings. And I say this with all the love in my heart and with 10 being one of my personal favourite doctors like so many other people, but imo, him sticking around kind of felt like it cheapened the spotlight of 15 a bit. Which is a shame, because Gatwa really stole the show when he was given the scene!
Part of me wonders how many of the choices that were made in the specials were attempts to get eyes back on the screen, after the previous few seasons kind of bombing at the box office? They did feel a little bit like the show was saying "Look, we're fun again! And we have your favourite guy! Please come back!".
I'm gonna remain cautiously optimistic for the new season though, part of what makes the doctor's regeneration so great is how the new actor gets to try out the ropes and really step into the role. :>
I'll get into it more on our Context Cave patreon post, but I will say that it's kind of weird that RTD felt compelled to give David Tennant's Doctor TWO 'happy' endings in which he gets to grow old and live life. On a funnier (and I am sure unintended) note, this now means that Martha is the only main Tennant companion who doesn't get "I live with the Doctor" wish fulfillment, cementing Martha's most consistent character trait as being that she deserved better :V
-The Bird
I don't know that I'd say that's specific to Davies though. Moffat literally reformed the whole whoniverse around Amy and Clara and struggled immensely with letting them go.
@@LittleHobbit13 For sure the general issue of not letting go isn't an RTD-specific problem, but in the context of regeneration and what it has traditionally meant I would definitely hand it to Moffat over RTD. While 12's regen definitely felt, in my opinion, a bit too speech-y and preachy right at the end, the character in-universe treats the notion the same way that every other Doctor besides 10 does.
I do think Amy and Rory's stories could have benefited from ending in season 6 and not having the 7A plotlines, despite some things I liked, and Clara's character arc and thematic impact on the Whoniverse is something deserving of its own analysis video -- stay tuned :P
-The Bird
@@LittleHobbit13 Oh definitely haha, if I were to talk about the Moffat era, that'd be a whoooole other can of worms. Specified it to Davies in my original comment since that was the focus of the video :D
I actually like that Series 7 transitioned companions instead of having one season finale drop them outta the story. I liked that it led to Eleven’s unique grief.
Hey, just wanted to say I’ve seen a ton of video essayists over the years, but ya’ll have some of the deepest, most thought provoking, most fascinating video essays I’ve ever seen in the history of RUclips.
I don’t say that lightly.
That means so much to all of us here, genuinely. There's a lot of 'junk-food' content out there, so our mission is always to produce works that promote deeper educated analysis, introspection, and discussion. It makes us all so happy to hear that people are really resonating with this, and comments like these are what keep us going through the tough times.
Thank you so much for watching, commenting, and hopefully sharing too. You've personally made my day!
-The Bird
I suppose I'm more critical of RTD. I know I don't necessarily need to defend my stance, but I would really really like better treatment for the black characters and poc characters (Gatwa is Rwandan-Scottish, but I thought he was black, my bad) of Dr. Who, particularly under RTDs writing.
Martha and Mickey and now Gatwa's iteration should have had far more screen time and importance than they have currently or past. Let Gatwa as 15 have the spotlight for a new Doctor. I love Tennant with all my heart and I do think all the good things of him and the series but man, I can't be the only one frowning slightly at having him return yet again to be the Dr.
My reaction is like "oh dr who? oh nvm it's tennant again," which I don't like having as a reaction.
Most of my watching mostly through absorption of when it comes across my feed on various media. Maybe I'll go back and watch every Doctor and then come back and see how I feel and whether that sparks a renewed interest in the series.
Sorry I know this is about rengen and I really just want RTD to let Tennant's Doctor go. Letting him die twice over and take over/split lives is cheating. I don't know how they're both living (haven't watched) did they split the hearts? Is Tennant just human now? Or is it something far less interesting than both of those lol?
Great video. I agree with a lot of your points. I do like how regen is seen differently by the doctors though.
The splitting is (in my opinion) something far less interesting. It just...happens. It's invented on the spot, it is supposedly an ancient timelord myth, and that's as far as that explanation goes. Both of them are still timelords. Maybe it gets elaborated on later, but for now (much like Tennant's return) it just happened because it happened and that's that.
There's so far one episode of Gatwa's 15th Doctor in centre-stage and I enjoyed that quite a lot, and am so far looking forward to his series releasing. There have been fair criticisms about RTD's writing habits before, but as it's been 13 years I'm willing to see what he comes up with. Personally, I think the choice to sideline Gatwa in his first appearance is much more motivated by Tennant love than anything else >_>
Thank you so much for your perspective, I'm very glad you enjoyed the video :D
-The Bird
Thank you for this video, really great video. More people really need to watch this.
Even though I prefer most of RTD's era over Moffat's era. I think Moffat has a better sense of the character of the Doctor especially in regard to regeneration. I think Eleven's speech is absolutely the best explanation on the whole process. Moffat also had the line in the 50th "Same software, different case" which perfectly applies to the Doctor. Because ultimately the Doctor doesn't die, he just changes his face and body which leads to him somewhat changing his personality but not really since he is still the same person as shown with Deep Breath's ending. RTD's writing for the End of the Time isn't good and he really mishandled regeneration and I think that a lot of people stopped watching the show after Tennant left since the way the episode treated regeneration was a negative thing which has caused a lot of misconceptions whenever the Doctor does change. The weird thing about RTD is that he got it right when Nine regenerated into Ten in the Children in Need special Born Again where Ten states to Rose "Rose, it's me. Honestly, it's me. I was dying. To save own life I changed my body. Every single cell. But I'm still me." Nine's regeneration is really good, and it sucks RTD never got it right after it.
Thank you so much for the kind words! RUclips doesn't really push our Doctor Who content, so it means a lot to see it reach people who really connect with it. I very much like that Moffatt line from the 50th! If you haven't seen our video on the 50th Anniversary, it delves deep into the concept of shared Doctor identity and the identity crisis that Doctors 8-11 experience through their regenerations. That line specifically is highlighted for the lesson it's trying to teach.
Honestly my only explanation for the stark shift between how RTD wrote 9's out vs 10's is that their relationship fell apart significantly. The joke about the Doctor saying "don't you think she looks tired?" leading to the Prime Minister losing her job seems to allude to a comment that was released after Chris and the studio agreed to an amicably end their relationship. The official headline was that Christopher Eccleston was "tired" on set -- which Chris himself states is a death sentence to an actor, because who is going to want to work with someone who can't keep up?
Again, as said in the video, ALL of that Chris/RTD stuff is just speculation and it assumes that Chris is telling the exact and whole truth, which can't be verified. But it would explain RTD having an easier time letting go, if nothing else.
-The Bird
Just wanna say thank you so much for this video, I've been making this argument from as long back as RTD 1's broadcast but the biases surrounding have been too prevalent in the fandom so much so I actually made "enemies" by having this view.
Thanks for verbalising what I and some other creators have believed for years in a way that I often struggled to articulate.
I'm glad people are finally waking up to this felt so isolated in the Who community when this 60th special rubbed me the wrong way.
Thank YOU so much for the kind words! It means a lot to all of us to know this piece is really hitting home. It's something I've passively thought about for the last 17 years because I am a healthy normal person, and I'm so happy to see it resonating with people who agree and creating discussion with people who never even considered it. Now, to be a bit shameless, if you haven't already seen it then I'd like to recommend you our video on the 50th Anniversary -- as it too dives into the Doctor's identity crisis and touches on what I consider the overlooked theme of forgiveness that the 50th does sooo well. It's an analytical celebration of something good, to cheer you up from the 60th letdown :P
-The Bird
@idlescree sounds like a good watch to me. I like your video essay style, tbf. I'm already subscribed, too.
All the best
Tom
Really great video!!!
Thank you so much, it means a lot to all of us that you enjoyed it!
Beautiful words in the conclusion ☺️
Thank you so much, straight from the heart to your ears~
-The Bird
This really is a well-planned and a well-thought-out analysis on the concept of regeneration. I saw a comment that seemed to be a gotcha about how Davies didn't make 9's death as dramatic so it's not a Davies issue. I would argue that Rose's reaction to 9's death is the argument that Davies sees regeneration as death even that early. It's not as strong as 10's refusal to die, but it's still the narrative's refusal to see death as growth until 10 suppresses his memories of the war
Thank you so much, that means a lot to all of us to hear. Yeah, 9 does get off easy on this motif, although he does refer to regeneration as "going", but even ignoring that you can observe the attitude in how characters of the Davies era treat regeneration besides the Doctor. Rose and Wilf, for example.
-The Bird
I loved this video so much, upset that I was so late again. It was amazing! so much packed into 18 minutes.
I think your summary way more than correct, which hardly matters since it was just a great essay. I think 10’s regeneration is easily ‘the best’ because there just *so much* in it. Which also could’ve sabotaged the series, but as a viewer, remembering my first time watching it, it’s lucky the show continued on as it did successfully with series 5’s excellent pilot, and the henceforth hammering home ‘regeneration is life, not death’ metaphor.
Russel T. Davies is a frustrating character to love and hate simultaneously.
My favourite regeneration is 11’s because of the line “We’re all different people all through our lives” that’s one gets me
Thank you so much! Yeah unfortunately RUclips doesn't push our Doctor Who content so it only makes the rounds through random chance or word of mouth .-.
It means so much to all of us that you watched and enjoyed it though, it's seriously what keeps us going with videos we know wont get promoted by RUclips. Genuinely keeping the passion alive!
It might not come across as well in the video, but we do actually like RTD's writing most of the time. It's just this specific hang up about regeneration that has tickled the back of my mind every day since Christmas of 2007. I think it's almost his most defined signature; as the only showrunner to treat regeneration like this and to return to that on a thematic level in the 60th, despite changing surface-level details to give the appearance of appealing to criticisms of the overly negative 10th regen, I just thought was too interesting to not talk about.
But alas, this isn't an algorithm optimized RUclips essay-meta 4 hour video of 95% waffling, so I didn't have time to include all the things I DID like about RTD :P
I think 11 definitely had the best last words. I could possibly call it my favourite regeneration as a whole but I'd maybe have to think a little harder before being certain, but definitely he had the best words. The theming was on point. Regeneration was explained to a human so that we, the audience, could understand it. It's so smart and sweet. The downside is I think it made Moff feel that Capaldi ALSO had to have a grand speech at the end despite what I felt was a pretty comfortable jumping off point -- sacrificed for a speech that I think was a little too meta and didn't quite justify itself imo :x
Regardless of anyone's opinions of the body of Series 5-7, I think it's hard to deny that 11 had the BEST opening (post-regen monologue is fantastic, instantly charactarises us for the audience. 11th hour is an excellent soft reset) and the BEST closing monologue of NuWho :D
Again, thank you so much for finding the video and sharing your thoughts. We do this to hear what people have to say, so your contribution means everything to us!
-The Bird
Really well constructed video! 😊
Thank you so much for watching, and EXTRA thanks for posting that clip from the commentary! Believe me, I tried everything short of catching a 23hr plane to the UK to try and get access to the commentary myself but was foiled at every turn. Your upload saved me u-u
-The Bird
@@idlescree Haha No problem! If I can help anyway in the future with clips exclusive to the UK let me know! 😊
I call that one feather top. He's after Rainbow Brite and before Sunshine. Angry Eyebrows was my NewWho fave, and Tom Baker is my classic Who fave. Change is necessary. Leather Jacket was fantastic. (Eccleston) I think my favourite is the whole show. I'm hoping that years later, we will still have Doctor Who no matter the Showrunner.
60 years down, forevermore to go!
Premiere squad arise >:3 This is such an excellent video, thank y'all again for your great thoughts!
We love premiere squad!! Thank you for attending, this is but the tip of the Doctor Who essay iceberg which lives rent free in my brain; we look forward to sharing more with you~
-The Bird
@@idlescree Always exciting to see what all of you cook up! :D I'll be looking forward to it!
I find not being able to let go a fundamental and recurring issue with both the RTD and Moffat eras, and a lot of things I would cite as letting tragedy play out are only not reversed because of the fact their era ended before they could.
Oftentimes during moffat's era, and beyond, i'd complain about the fact he couldn't let any of his characters die, and always had to give them their happily ever afters.
Face The Raven was a beautiful and brilliant episode and a wonderful end to Clara's arc, and Clara realizing what she did, and having to face the raven, is genuinely one of my favorite scenes in the show. Heaven Sent gets enough praise so I'll leave it at saying that its one of my top 5 episodes ever, and a beautiful exploration of the Doctor's grief, and also a wonderful solo performance from Peter Capaldi like holy shit. Then Hell Bent undid all of this and sent Clara off in her own immortal tardis, to face her death. Sometime. Even the Doctor forgetting her is reversed.
Bill Potts death is beautiful and tragic and that finale is my favorite in Doctor Who (and I wish 12 regenerated under the starless sky, but I digress), but her death is immediately undone by Magic Puddle Girlfriend. Admittedly I do love Bill Potts and I think if it was just her getting the fanfic ending I would be fine with it. I, too, am mortal.
The Ponds get brought back only to live in the past happily, if bittersweetly, the Doctor's Daughter flies off forever, River Song gets her library afterlife, I could go on. It's a painful trope of Moffat's era and I genuinely just skip those scenes bc the stories are better without them.
I'd often compare this to RTD, who let Donna lose her memories and character growth. Oops.
Now I think about it I feel like the best example of moving on and letting tragedy happen is the duo episodes of Husbands of River Song and The Return of Doctor Mysterio, which I'm sure also only hasn't been undone because of the whole ending the series soon after that, but it's a great exploration of grief and loss and moving on in subtle moving ways that isn't underminded by later decisions.
For a show fundamentally built around moving forward, New Who has a consistent issue with letting go, and it's constantly trapped in bringing back the past and undoing tragedies, which both stops the show from moving forward, and makes the original story worse because of it.
With how negative this comment is I want to end it on a good note, and a theme I love in Doctor Who that I really hope will embrace moving forward: "Everything ends, and it's always sad. But everything begins again too, and that's… always happy. Be happy." - 12. The Best Doctor. (Even though they're all the same.)
also because i couldn't fit this in in the original comment, kill your darlings is basic writing advice for a reason and these head writers could really do with having their hands slapped away from the keyboard by some kinda showrunner. shame they're both.
anyway thanks again for your video it's got me thinking all kinds of things. and also i hope ncuti's doctor and tardis can be as good as I'm sure they will be, and that they'll signal a new beginning for doctor who where RTD will not keep him around forever please oh my god, plz don't let him be 10 number 2
Thank you for sharing, I may yet write an essay examining Clara's end and the social/industry implications of it. I hear what you're saying 100%, but in my perspective 'letting go' or an 'end' isn't necessarily always character death. I think how I would distinguish it is the difference between "does the character still canonically exist?" vs "does the character's story constantly come back and have more bits stapled to it which don't seem to improve their overall profile?"
To that end, Bill becoming an alien to survive her death doesn't bother me because the show itself still let her go. Susan was let go in 1966 and (excl. audio stories) she's never been back, despite being left to live happily ever after with David. Tegan was let go in 1984 and (until very recently) was not brought back.
What bothers me more is completing character stories and wrapping them up so well that it feels a shame to revisit and unwrap it just to hastily tell a story and wrap it up again, but worse. The 60th Anniversary is guilty of bringing David Tennant back just to have him split in half (again) and live happily ever after (again). Technically he could never return, and this could be the 'let go' moment, but it's a weaker 'let go' than his first (in my opinion) and there are thematic consequences which affect the next coming Doctor (not unlike the first time he was let go).
But on a positive note, Heaven Sent is a 12/10 episode! Thank you for watching, I am glad our video was thought provoking -- that's the key mission here!! :D
-The Bird
@@idlescree I understand your perspective and mostly agree with it, but personally for me I feel like the return of Clara in Hell Bent, and all the similar patterns of tragic and amazing death followed by being undone really quickly does detract from the original scene of the death and represents a more minor bringing back/not letting go. It does feel a bit like, in your words, wrapping up a story well, only to instantly unwrap and change it.
I suppose the fact it's instant could make it less annoying but it still lowers stakes and is a problem imo in New Who. I suppose I'm just thinking about it because there's parallels. Anyway, thanks for the response :3
Thanks for following up :D Yeah Clara's death is held up as the king of "well why did you do that if you were just going to bring her back?" Future potential Clara essay will discuss this in greater detail. I think Bill was done much better via signposting. She instantly dies, that's how the story starts, and it very clearly becomes a "how are we going to fix this" narrative. She isn't given an ending until her ending is given, unlike Clara who is given 2 endings. It's also mostly in service of putting the Doctor and Bill on EXACTLY the same page. Bill and the Doctor both choose death over change, until they don't. Might also have to make a video about that too while I'm rambling >_>
-The Bird
havent watched yet but engagement boop.
i always love ur videos they r very clever and good.
Thank you very much, can't wait to hear what you think once you have watched :D
@@idlescree i don't have much to say, you said a lot of it yourself, but. actually turns out i have a lot to say brb as i write a big old comment
It's pronounced like "Davis," by the way (in this case; not everyone named "Davies").
Nine didn't look on it as death, and that was under Davies. RTD had two regenerations before the bigeneration: one had a positive attitude about it, and one didn't. I love your points about Wilf, who would have died, and Ten, who is not dying at all. His yelling at Wilf, an old man with one life he will ever have, one relatively short life, that he should die because Ten could have done so much more. I think there is something in Ten (Ten being really not a separate person but an era of your life, as you say) that didn't want to change again. In this era, he became so much worse and unable to let go of the things he should have let go, becoming arrogant and skating into Master territory ("The Waters of Mars").
Edit: Love this video. Subscribed. (Inadvertently had some of the same word choices as you, but I hadn't gotten that far yet.)
Thank you for the kind words and for the sub! It means a lot to us as our DW content doesn't get the views that our other stuff does :| I think Nine definitely gets off the easiest. One could nitpick the way he emphasises "going" ("before I go, Rose") but even if you wanted to write of Nine's as 100% NOT-death, that gives Davies 2/3 total regenerations as death -- which I appreciate Eleven for writing off as "I had vanity issues at the time" but, as we mentioned, Rose and other characters in the Davies era also treat it like death. That's why we feel more comfortable pinning it to Davies' thought process rather than character consistency -- the attitude is ongoing and present even if you ignore the Doctor himself.
-The Bird
@@idlescree I can see why Rose looks on it as death when it happens to Nine. To her, the man she loves (in whatever way) is gone and replaced by a stranger. I wouldn't have minded her dealing with that for a while, although recognizing he is the same person -- and wouldn't you still love him if he'd been in an accident and disfigured? -- is a valid trajectory too. It _is_ even understandable that she balks at its happening again without it's being a superficial thing, although it's not a good look. Was this just after she rhapsodized about his hair? (I could be wrong.)
But I do love how Nine talks about going to Barcelona (the planet) and, when Rose asks why they can't, he says, "Maybe you will. And maybe I will. But not like this." I will change but it will still be me. And Ten immediately starts talking about Barcelona after. In "The Christmas Invasion," I would repeat his lines in my head in Nine's voice and it tracked. He does change over the course of Series 2, though. (But people do, sometimes, or tap into the darker parts of themselves.) While Nine and Rose would temper each other's worst instincts, Ten and Rose exacerbated them.
Sorry for rattling on!
No apologies needed, I love hearing what other people have to say on the topic! It can be argued that Rose's perspective is a failure to comprehend the abstract nature of timelord life, conscience, or identity. I'm definitely here for characters who have realistic difficulty grappling with complex things, and especially protagonists who can be wrong. But I personally never read it that way from her, particularly when you take it in the full context of how Davies wrote everything surrounding Tennant's Doctor and the prospect of change. The world of Doctor Who never teaches Rose a lesson about how she was wrong to panic about Tennant regenerating, it rewards her with his face sticking around (and then being cloned for her to keep forever).
I'm not saying it had to, but what an idea to explore!
-The Bird
@@idlescree Rose is rewarded for the wrong things, sure. I think that happens in life, although in this case the narrative is doing gymnastics to reward her (as it has done to punish Martha at times, hmm, how odd . . .). Not that Rose hasn't been through some things. I think RTD has a certain favoritism towards her. Of course, we know he likes the name, this not even being the first time he's used it.
I do think it's somewhat understandable for her to have this face in her head of the man she was trying to get back to, and for being confronted with another possible change to be a lot at that point. It would have been interesting if the clone Doctor had looked like a previous incarnation and to see how that would have gone. It does all make Rose look kind of superficial, but now she'll have to deal with him changing. (If he ages like Tennant, though, I guess that's no hardship.) I think it would have been okay to just leave her in the parallel world and assume she got back with Mickey or found someone else (or met a parallel Doctor, haha, although we have no reason to think there is one in that universe). I wonder what they would have done with TenToo if Rose had turned him down. Taken him and offered him to Joan Redfern? At least that might give us Tennant meeting himself signing a book instead of her lookalike granddaughter or whatever, haha.
Imagine Ten dragging TenToo around trying to dispose of him to some happy life but no one will take him. And how much free will did he have to take up a life with Rose anyway? He had the Doctor's memories, but he has to develop into his own person and it was a gamble.
(Maybe RTD should have done a multiplicity of Tens instead of Masters but with the Master's personality, showcasing not just the Master's narcissism but his obsession with the Doctor.)
Anyway, yes, RTD is weird about regeneration, and I hope he gets a little more positive about it before it comes up again.
Ahhh, I'm sad I missed this when it was new. RUclips hid it from me.
I only watched the 9th and 10th doctors and I see regeneration as sad, likely because I lack perspective. But even with that I knew that they each had the core of each doctor's memories and values.
Having two doctors now and a cascade of doctors going forward feels less like an "idea" and more like "a problem for the next writer to deal with".
Which seems like a common thread in dr who from what I've seen. Bombastic idea now, scamble to find the bigger story later.
Thank you for sharing ~ Yeah YT buries our Doctor Who content at the moment so it basically survives on word of mouth and sharing ._. It's interesting that you've ONLY known regeneration through Davies' eyes, and I'm curious if the history and perspective offered here has maybe informed or changed your idea on regeneration in any way?
In any case, thank you so much for watching and commenting, it's honestly what keeps us going.
-The Bird
@idlescree Yes, it's helped me understand the concept. I, of course, really only understand it on the conceptual level being so far removed, but it's fascinating.
I also hated Matt Smith as the doctor. I think he's a wonderful actor but the bit of time I saw him as the doctor (~10 episodes) it felt like "Haha I'm so QUIRKY, you know I'm an alien because I'm super weird on PURPOSE. " and it felt extremely fake and performative.
Again, no hate on Matt Smith, every other thing I've seen him in, he's NAILED it, but the doctor wasn't working for me.
As someone who only got into Doctor who when the series came back as new who I personally don't mind it especially considering that it resets and gives the next Doctor a challenge in setting themselves apart while also living up to those who came before to the fans in their own way.
My headcanon was always 10 was rather egotistical and possibly a bit insecure. Bare in mind we're talking about the Time Lord Victorious. I think in many ways he was his favourite self (the joy of 4 with an ego 4 didn't have) and he was the first Doctor just happily being the Doctor since the Time War. So in some ways he felt his best self, there was a fear and self loathing of who he may become and he was also the lonely god, he had a depressed edge to him. Of all the Doctors he would have the hardest time letting go and also be the most dramatic about it.
The bi regeneration however even I can't justify that.
It's canon as of Series 7 that 10 genuinely was egotistical and "had vanity issues", for sure. But the actual show itself, the world of Doctor Who under Davies, doesn't treat it as such. It treats it as valid and correct. That's why we have characters like Rose and Wilfred who both also (correctly, in the eyes of the show at the time) treat regeneration as this great tragedy. Not to mention, well, RTD literally said he sees every regeneration as "a tragedy, and a sadness."
So TL;DR, I sleep well enough at night telling myself 10 acted like that because that's just how he was, but I know that Davies consistently wrote (and continues to write) regeneration as death, in stark contrast to all other showrunners so far.
I think all of the Doctors are their favourite selves -- that's the vibe I get any time #2 and #3 interact :')
Personally I consider 11 to be the first Doctor to really "move on" from the Time War -- both 10 and 11 lie to themselves about it until the 50th Anniversary where we see them finally get that closure. If you haven't seen our video on the 50th Anniversary Miracle, it might interest you as it dives into the Doctor's identity crisis, forgiveness, and the affect of the 50th on the Doctor as a character -- and the show as a whole!
Thank you for sharing with us, I love hearing how everyone personally interprets the events and characters of this wild show :D
-The Bird
I've got two problems mainly with the bigeneration is it was never once shown possible before hand and like we relatively know how regeneration works already from all the times beforehand but now ive got 80 questions of how it works and what are the consequences of its workings some questions being "does the 14th still have the ability to regenerate, did it count as two regenerations for both or just one each, will it have consequences for the future doctors like how simulation 12th needed to know something so tried to steal future vision, i would suspect that with the doctor being the timeless child there would be more doctors around so why not," and honestly many more questions my 2nd problem being the 10th was already living on with rose if he really wanted to have the 10th back why not just make another spin-off perhaps in that universe now theres 2 10th doctors just living happy lives one being half human but still they are the same person
I don't personally mind lore changes and additions as long as they've got as much theme as they do function. RTD actually correctly identified that "the timeless child" means nothing to an audience, but "the Doctor is an orphan" does mean something to an audience. He identified that the timeless child twist was, so far, just a wikipedia lore change with no thematic impact on the Doctor or the world. Immediately we see him take this themeless twist and add those themes of self identity, lost/unknown heritage, and self fulfillment directly into the first episode of Season 1 (2024) and make them a huge part of his relationship with his companion.
That's why the timeless child now FEELS like something, instead of simply just BEING something. But as this video described, we feel that the themes around the bigeneration have been quite muddied, the motivations seem to be external to the story and not in service of it. We don't FEEL anything for the Doctor undergoing bigeneration, all it does is give us questions. It's just another wikipedia lore change until further notice .-.
Personally I hope we get both: more details and questions answered regarding the lore and mechanics of bigeneration *and* that we get some sort of theme or message or motif conveyed by it through the characters/world of the show moving forward.
-The Bird
I find myself wondering if the struggle to let go is less about Davies and more of an overall NewWho era problem. Davies can't let go of the Doctors, but equally Moffat often wouldn't let go of the Companions. (We.....we won't go into Chibnall's struggles.) Each could be considered guilty of writing "fanfiction" style elements where they focus too heavily on their own improvements to the show rather than what worked with and matched the show's history (which is not to say the show should never evolve). But in the same way that Davies seems to be unable to let go of his favorite Doctors, Moffat also struggled with the idea of Companions being _just_ companions, that not all of them needed to be the most important person the Doctor had ever met.
So maybe this is a larger issue of how we write stories for audiences today, with audiences who have stronger attachments to characters and different expectations in narratives, versus how they used to be written in Classic Who.
I think being "just" companions -- in the sense that all they're there to do is agree with the Doctor and be scared of monsters -- is a long gone notion. There are a lot of social implications that we're generally more aware of now when it comes to, say, casting a know-it-all man and his sidekick the eye-candy "for the dads" type who simply can't compete on the man's level. I think what it means to BE a 'companion' has evolved, and personally I think that's great! Because when we get a regression to the companions of old (the ones whose job it is to say "look doctor!" and to be confused by alien stuff), what you get is a Chibnall Ryan Sinclair scenario @0@
That being said, I think it has been a struggle to build up character as being on par with the Doctor and still having to let them go, because of course the Doctor can't be let go -- no matter how much I fantasize about a series opening with Missy abducting our companion in her TARDIS on a mission to undo the Doctor's permanent death with an uneasy dangerous alliance -- so we have this thematic conflict of "how do I make this person matter just as much, and still move them along when the time comes?" I think Bill was a good example because she wasn't Ms. Special, but her *character* and chemistry mattered as much to the show as the Doctors' did, in my opinion. Being important doesn't mean being the centre of the universe, it can just mean being important to us.
-The Bird
Could I just say I have been waiting for this video. It’s expresses exactly how I feel to the letter ! Wonderful. RTD has said how he dislikes multi-Doctor stories. he would find it difficult having to write different for Doctors having to be the smartest in the room. Basically sharing the limelight. I’ve always had the theory that the difference between RTD and Moffat/Chibnall is that Davis grew up wanting to be the Doctors boyfriend. He’s in love with him. Whereas I think Moffat and chibnall wanted to be the Doctor. To be the hero. RTD cannot let go of David Tenant, I mean their are 3 versions of that Doctor, tells you everything you need to know. Even in the giggle he wanted to draw a line under the 2005 era by ending it with his boyfriend surviving and living in suburbia. IMO bi-generation is a cunning plot device to deliberately remind you the 10/14 is still around. When all other Doctors regenerated we had to accept that they’d gone. I did enjoy the 10th Doctor’s era but after re-watching some of his behaviour could be construed as creepy if those lines were performed by Peter Capaldi. Anyway, for me regeneration was always about surviving and renewal. My favourite way it has been described is how the sonic screwdriver was described in the 50th anniversary special. Same software different case. I think that software sums up regeneration for me.
Thank you so much for sharing! It makes me so happy to know that this video is really hitting the spot for Doctor Who fans. I had never considered the differing writer-Doctor relationships in that particular way before, but you might be on to something. I couldn't agree more about the 50th's handling of regeneration and identity! I actually wrote about it in our video on the 50th Anniversary Miracle with specific focus on the quote and motif of "same software, different case" when it comes to the Doctor's identity, self-acceptance, and over all impact on the show as a whole :D If you liked this video, maybe check that one out too~
P.S The idea of the Doctor still being "around" as a device to get them back into the show has always felt kind of redundant to me, given that they're time travelers. So few (dare I even say, no) hoops had to be jumped through to bring 10 back for the 50th, because he could simply just arrive at the same location and time as the other Doctors. The final scene with all 13 wouldn't have been any better if it was "All 13, and none of them ever regenerated either!" It was just as powerful, and given the themes and motifs of the 50th I would even say MORE powerful, to have all 13 Doctors -- the Doctor at all 13 stages of his life -- come together to make the same decision....which is literally the point of the 50th, that the Doctor would ALWAYS have done this, because that is who he fundamentally is. Oh look I've rambled about the 50th again uh oh.
-The Bird
@@idlescree Appreciate your reply and just to clarify about 14 living around the corner. I think the difference is with the symbolism. You’re right, any Doctor could come back being a time traveller but what RTD did was to suggest that the Doctor who looks like David Tenant never ended. ie: Doctor Who 2005 never ended. When we saw 10 in the 50th we know how it ends for him and 11 knows how it ends for him. This is what I believe is fundamental with the core of the show and regeneration really. Like 12 says “ Everything ends and that always sad but then everything begins again and that happy.” Ending is important. Now, RTD is selling the new series with Ncuti as a new beginning but I can’t help feeling well essentially this Doctor is diluted because the previous one didn’t end. I think that RTD has done a chibnall by creating a new lore where everyone’s favorite Doctor never ends. The question I have is well is this necessary? What is the point where we essentially can meet the Doctor at any point or regeneration in his life and audios or animation can give us adventures that are not televised. To me the significance of 14 living with a human family on earth is RTD not letting his boyfriend go and David Tenant is still the Doctor.
@@thevirgologychannel6215 Yeah the point you make about 15's takeover feeling somewhat diluted it something I know a lot of people felt. A cut line from this video was that it felt like Doctor Who ended and the new series was going to be "Doctor Who's Son: The Next Generation." I'm glad that so far Ncuti's first episode doesn't feel that way but I certainly felt it at the end of the 60th. The new Doctor was a guest-star in the old Doctor's story, and that just feels like a really weak footing to start on.
-The Bird
It’s hard to come down on him since, well, any good writer should love his characters and absolutely not just kill them. It’s just a frame of mind that runs against Doctor Who before it was canceled in 1989.
There are no more serials. Actors don’t just keep going until the walk off like Dodie. Especially when it comes to how the internet has fostered fandom into what it is now.
Excess - the reason for the destruction of great t.v. With Dr 10/14 it has actually turned me of his Doctor. Selfpity and self absorption is not what I want from DW. Whikst not a fan of Chibnall's DW I did like 13ths selflessness and positive approach to her regeneration. This excellent video has brilliantly explained that you can't reheat a souffle.
My general opinions on this line up more with Council of Geek’s video here: m.ruclips.net/video/KUzWTgCA4HE/видео.html
Though I do feel like RTD is evident of how writing for Doctor Who has fundamentally changed between Classic and New. Especially when it comes to how characters come and go. The reason the drama is upped is because of how, well, these characters mean something to people and if they gotta go, it has to feel like something.
Even with the Doctor, we are bidding farewell to an actor who was somebody’s Doctor and doing something like having him change mid way a story would feel cheap.
Like… Game of Thrones became infamous for the “Anyone Can Die” premise when primary characters too often went out with a whimper, not a roar.
Sorry! I didn't realise RUclips autoblocked this comment due to the link. I watched the video, and what I've gathered is that they're discussing the functionality of bi-generation with questions such as "how does this function? What opportunities does this provide the story? What is the impact on the audience?". We're not discussing that, we're discussing what it means -- thematically.
For example, Council of Geeks defends bi-generation being odd and strange by saying that the initial regeneration back into Tennant was odd and didn't garner nearly as much criticism. Functionally, both regenerations break with established norms, but thematically only one regeneration reinforces RTD's personal view on regeneration as death and/or loss. THAT's the part being criticised, at least by us. That's why I personally was thrilled when Jodie became Tennant because "oh my god this is something totally new I am so excited!". Heck, I was excited when the bi-generation happened, but as we said in the video Tennant sticking around is where the theme of regeneration begins to unravel.
Or for a reverse example: FUNCTIONALLY there is no difference having "two Doctors at the same time" because this is a time travel show, and all 16 of them can simultaneously exist and appear at the same place at the same time regardless. THEMATICALLY there is a significant difference, as we discussed in the video.
CoG doesn't really touch on themes of the story or of regeneration the way that we did here, and so it's not an opposition to what we've expressed. To that end, I'd actually really like to hear their thoughts on the deeper themes being expressed here, if only I could get this video in front of them :')
I also agree with CoG that a lot of the anti-bi-generation arguments they highlighted were pretty flimsy
This low key made me annoyed at rtd because I never realised that's how he viewed regeneration and that he was so obsessed with 10 that he just kept bringing him back. David Tennant is a really good regen of the doctor, but he is just too overused now. And I am just annoyed that russel changed the meaning of such a pinnical moment in the doctor who world.
D: Not the intent to make you annoyed! The rules are always in flux, so the next showrunner may very well return to regeneration as growth instead of death; but for now yes, it seems like RTD is back to his old antics.
Personally I loved 10 but felt like he was over-hyped back in 2007. Like, great Doctor but I felt like he was always a bit too worshiped, and part of that may be because of the showrunner's writing choices? Either way, there's a sad and confusingly gratifying validation of now, nearly a decade later, having more people share my feeling that maybe 10 isn't worth all the fuss we're giving him :') There are now 3x David Tennants in canon, who knows how many there will be 10 years from now? >_>
Thank you for watching and commenting, it really means the world to us!
-The Bird
@@idlescree you're very right with that, they're gonna be pushing him out on a wheelchair for the 90th 😂 it might be nice to see glimpses of him and the Nobles perhaps
I am on RTD's side actually. I think of Regeneration as a form of death, but this does not have to be negative.
It comes down to what makes us us. And our characteristics, our likes and dislikes, our way of thinking, our behavior - I think that's what separates us from each other. It's the difference between soul and consciousness. As I also believe in reincarnation, it is our soul that moves on, but our consciousness that dies (in my belief), so I value the consciousness separately.
When a doctor regenerates, he keeps his morals, his memories, and his stand on important matters. But his consciousness changes. He is a different character.
This does not has to be a bad thing because, again, he keeps his memories - I think that's super valuable. But it is still a form of death.
Most of the other doctors had it "easy". Their regeneration came quickly (so they didn't had time to think about it) or they had reached a specific body-age that was ready to move on. Many also regenerated in the company of companions, so they wanted to make it easy on them.
10 had a different set up. He knew he was going to die for MONTHS in advance. Knew he had to willingly go into his death. And just - didn't wanted to go, because he felt still so much full of life. Instead of accepting his coming death, he ran away from it as long as he could, and because he didn't paused to deal with what was coming, it was so much harder for him. And he didn't had a companion at the end to put a strong face to. This all fit to his character. He was by far the most emotional Doctor at that point, he lived his life to the fullest, so saying good bye was the hardest for him.
I also like that the bi-generation might be a way of therapy, because the Doctor really needs it at that point - and 10/13 is the perfect Doctor to heal from Trauma because of his emotional side and his connection to Donna.
What I think is utter garbage however is the idea that all regenerations could've been bi-regenerations. That's just... FanFiction territory XD
(But I'm not a fan of changing the past timeline of the Doctor in general. I hated the idea that Clara had a hand in every Doctor's life, that's just... well, again, FanFiction territory.)
Thank you for the detailed comment, these are interesting thoughts! Genuinely curious though, for you, what is the big difference between something that would belong in the serialized canon vs "fanfiction"?
(Bird speaking) Yeah this video isn't necessarily "there's a right and wrong way to do things", but a broader look at what RTD's approach means for the franchise as a whole. Things like having no companion to be brave in front of do logically explain a drastically different reaction, but the broader implication there is that he is always this scared and it's always this bad for him, which can be pretty upsetting to think about and a strong thematic 180. But again, it's not about right or wrong.
Big agree that splitting all regenerations into bigenerations would be a MASSIVE thematic mistake for so many reasons @0@
@@idlescree That's... a super hard question. Especially since there's FanFiction that surpasses it's source material XD
In this case, I meant neat little fan-ideas including Mary-Sue appearances (which I don't judge). Things that are conflicting with established canon, instead of adding onto it.
Putting Clara in past moments of the Doctors that we know of, is conflicting to me.
Adding a secret past to the Doctor that he/she/they didn't knew about, as happening with the Lost Child storyline of 13, is adding to the canon. This includes the crossovers between Doctors - having the prior Doctor's forgetting about the events works as adding to the canon, instead of conflicting with it.
But at the same time, Doctor Who is no stranger in dapping into the conflicting area of canon throughout it's run, and while I'm not too much of a fan of it (or some of these instances at least), I can't say it's out of ordinary for DW either XD
@@idlescree I also in no way meant to disregard the points you made in the video! I just wanted to show my point of view. I think there are different, valid ways to interpret situations like these and it's nice to discuss about it :)
I personally found Moffat's struggle with killing a character more problematic, for example. No character in his run could just "die", there always had a loophole for them to come back in one way or another, which for me was very tiresome.
(for example, I loved Clara's death in "Face the Raven", and hated the conclusion of "Hell Bent", because it completely nullified Clara's sacrifice and the emotional end of her character arc)
I don't have time to respond to everything at the moment but for now I'd like to point out: the past Doctors never remembered the Clara fragments either. In that montage she mentions that the Doctors "never hear [her]...almost never (referring to 11)."
I always personally interpreted this to mean that the Clara fragments have been silent unobserved forces which exist only to tip the scales back from The Great Intelligence's imbalance. 11 was perhaps the first Doctor to perceive Clara because he was at the end of his time stream (final regeneration before the Timelords do their thing) and it was from his point in the timeline that the Clara fragments began? If you see it that way, it feels less like a conflict and more like a "prior Doctors forget" scenario.
Anyways thank you so much for your thoughts, I will take the time to properly respond as soon as I am able!
-The Bird
It all feels very franchise brained. RTD, especially now feels like his number one priority is making the show appeal to the broadest audience possible. He's gone on record as saying he wants the show to be like Marvel and this feels like a very franchise based decision. The thematic resonance of these previous regenerations matter less than the ability for any old actor to pop back in whenever wanted.
I think we all shuddered a bit when the Whoniverse announcement was made. Prioritising a franchise brand over good storytelling is very often transparent and leaves a bad taste. As much as my heart always wanted an 8th Doctor spin off, I've always known that it'd have to be because they had stories to tell -- and NOT because they just wanted more Who branding (hence my stern opposition to turning audio stories into live action).
You're dead-on that in the face of franchise money, the integrity of stories told and stories yet to be told is sacrificed. We've seen it with EVERY cinematic universe/franchise. Every. Single. One. I could write you an essay in this comment about it, but I'll keep it to a particular scree of mine: on top of EVERYTHING else, these decisions are just lazy.
Why write your way around why a Doctor looks slightly older when you can just duplicate them and undermine their arcs, lessons, decisions, themes, etc? Why write your away around Doctor-meeting-Doctor paradoxes and memories when you could just...not? It's so lazy that off the top of my head I can name THREE Doctors who have baked-in "I can return at any time no matter what" powers.
1. The First Doctor (Young) - Literally anyone could play a younger-years first Doctor before he was a stiff old man.
2. The War Doctor (Young) - 8 regenerated into a YOUNG War Doctor. Hundreds of years pass between that short and the 50th Anniversary. Anyone who can do a young John Hurt impression and/or slightly resemble the blurred reflection shown in the Night of the Doctor could play him.
3. The 11th Doctor (Any age) - 11 aged to death on Trenzalore. A story can re-use Matt Smith and just pluck him out of Trenzalore and put him back at the end with a memory wipe no matter how the actor ages since there will have been a point in the 11th Doctor's life when he would have looked how Matt currently looks at the time of the special.
Not to be mad about a thing that hasn't happened yet, and may not, but I worry that interesting prompts like these will be forever hand-waved away with franchise jargon.
Oops I ranted :| TL;DR franchising tends to sacrifice EVERYTHING in the name of brand saturation and exposure, and I am desperately hoping that we don't see that creeping into Doctor Who. Thank you so much for watching and commenting, it really genuinely means the world to us all!
-The Bird
@@idlescree I totally get the rant, DW. I've gone over the same thing to friends and family. Tales of the TARDIS felt so dire to me because it was literally just parading the old actors on screen, going "look it's X and Y" then calling it a day. And I feel like that's the direction it's all heading. I mean look at how Unit has essential been set up now as a companion retirement home, just regardless of their ending or skillset every companion seems to now get recruited there so we can point and clap. Completely ignoring how the literal first thing we see them do in this era is kidnap a journalist to suppress the press, we're supposed to ignore that and just think of them as the cool spy job every companion now inherits.
I think ironically enough the show feels quite tired to me rn. Personally I feel both RTD2 and the Chibnall era before it feels so much like their first goal is replicating RTDs first era and like with a picture each time it's copied I feel more and more issues begin to show themselves with this one vision of the show we're never letting go of.
Certainly the last thing we want is a Star Wars-esc "I remembered that thing I liked and clapped" mentality. I actually DO like seeing reoccurring companions when appropriate and without compromising their stories/arcs, but I hate memory fetishism. Also, if over-done, it kind of has (in my opinion) the opposite affect and makes the world feel so much smaller. The plots no longer happen to the world, they revolve around a handful of special people.
It is kind of strange that the companions are all being recruited to the CIA; I can imagine this going in directions I really don't like but for the time being I am offering it the benefit of doubt. Time will tell if this contributes to all my least favourite franchise media tropes or if it's instead used as a platform to tell really interesting stories.
I had a similar sort of tired feeling from The Giggle, but I LOVED Wild Blue Yonder and #15's first episode felt a lot better to me than The Giggle, so again I am crossing my fingers and hoping that the memory parade was entirely a product of it being a 60th Celebration, and not indicative of the trend going forwards. After all, no other showrunner has taken over specifically for the anniversary, so we'll see how RTD2 pans out free of the nostalgic obligation.
-The Bird
@@idlescree Yeah, I hope anything we get is as far from the Giggle as possible, that was dire. Church on Ruby Road was such a breath of fresh air after that, it's just from the trailers and rtd statements I feel that it's gonna wind up touching on the Tales of the TARDIS stuff which feels very, very Disney plus. I've always felt RTD finales were the weakest of his works though so through on these additional fears I just kinda hope the rest of the series is stand alone
I don’t like the what ever his name is who does the show now