I'm slowly but surely reading your comments and this is why I love my audience - we are able to have intellectual and respectful discussions without hating on each other even in disagreement!!!! ❤️❤️❤️ Will respond to as many comments as I can, love you guys 😘
Can you please make a video about your opinon on honey and backyard eggs? I am a vegan myself from an ethical argument alone, however i can't find any ethical reason for honey or backyard eggs and i would love to hear what you have to say
Cheap Lazy Vegan ok I have a couple of questions that I’ve thought about that have wanted to know about hearing others thoughts. 1. Sugar. When we go out and get something like orange cauliflower let’s say at P.F. Chang’s and they probably put non organic sugar.., is it not vegan to eat that? Idk thoughts I have sometimes. Same with almond milk or creamer that has cane sugar in it to be easy, is it vegan? I mean I guess there are labels but it’s so limiting as it is sometimes, that is seems ok. 2 fries from fast food. So with this one most fast food places don’t have separate fryers and they might fry something that isn’t vegan is it still okay 🤔 idk I call m.y self plant based because I feel like ppl get so strict and mean to us. Truly I don’t like labels because they are dangerous! Lol. But still we are all doing a great thing by not consuming most animal products in the world. Anyways, I liked this video a lot bc then it makes all of us who make mistakes feel better and know we aren’t alone. We just have to keep it up and stay strong and do better the next day ❤️❤️
@@ZeMidnightPepper here is a section on a website that explains why people go vegan and not vegetarian (including the reason why people avoid honey and backyard eggs). www.carnismdebunked.com/why-dont-vegans/
@@dacia6247 the sugar thing is difficult to figure out, but the reason why it wouldn't be vegan is because of some types or brands of sugar being filtered with bone char during manufacturing. there are some clear exceptions such as organic sugar and beet sugar, as they never get filtered with bone char. you could also try calling the company about their brand, or look up sugar brands that don't filter with bone char. as for plant milks, I'm pretty sure that the sugar in them aren't filtered, but I could be wrong, and if I am wrong, then you could go for unsweetened plant milks. to learn more about if sugar is vegan, check this video. ruclips.net/video/RcbeJEUnii4/видео.html as for vegan food being fried in the same oil as non vegan food, I'm not entirely sure, but as long as it's not fried in animal derived oil (such as fish oil), it's fine, since eating vegan food from the same oil used for non vegan food doesn't create a demand for the non vegan food (although I would rather use oil that didn't cook animal products when given the chance, like when I'm home). to learn more, see the comments on this reddit post. www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/2cg5qp/fried_in_the_same_oil_as_meat/ hope this helped.
I'm broke and often rely on our local food bank. They pretty much have a "take what you get" attitude and I don't spend my own money on the animal products, so in that instance I will consume them or give them to someone who does eat them. Outside of that I don't eat animal products. I think the perfectionist/purity complex a lot of vegans have turns people away from even trying to live more ethically. It did for me initially. Like you said, not everything is black and white. I don't call myself vegan because of all the technicalities, so I just call myself plant based.
I think it's very reasonable in your circumstances to do what you need to in order to survive. Have you checked out the local churches? I know mine has an agreement with Panera and they get the day old bread. They freeze it and give it out to the needy. Just a thought about another place you might want to try.
@@christines3638 Unfortunately we live in a small area surrounded by water so our choices are limited. We would need to take a boat to get to the closest major city. I appreciate you trying to help tho. 💕 I try to tell our food bank no eggs, meat, or dairy, but they have the attitude that since I'm poor I don't get to be picky. It's unfortunate, but we're still grateful for the help that we get. One day I will be able to make enough to buy all of my own food and it will be all vegan. Just have to keep dreaming and working hard. 😊
@@strawbunnymilk81 - Its a tough situation to be in. But just like a cow or a chicken you and your family have a right to survive. Do what you can. Make the right choices for what you do buy, which your doing, and that's enough for now. Maybe you can trade with others, I don't know. But I agree, your life will turn around and lots more options can be available when that happens
@Amanda B - I don't understand why the food banks are not jumping for joy when someone wants to forgo the popular and pricey meats and fish in favor of peanut butter or dried beans. It makes no sense to me, but yours is a common story. As far as cost goes...when my husband lost his job a few years back, we had 2 small girls, one a celiac. A friend let me go to Sam's Club where I bought a gigantic bags of rice, beans, flour, cornmeal and oats. They lasted forever. They were the base to every single meal I made and helped keep costs way down. We were also lucky in that our parents had a house in the woods and so we had an unlimited amount of firewood to heat our house with. Those 2 things kept us reasonably comfortable during the year+
The reason I don't really think it's okay to consume bivalves is because they are bottom dwelling creatures. Like they bury themselves in the sand at the bottom and harvesting them often causes a lot of destruction of the surrounding environment (and it's possible that there is by-kill). So I consider unethical from an environmental standpoint
For the farmed oysters there is very little bi-kill (much less than plant farming) and they actually help filter the water and even help the dead zones we've created.
I used to be a chef, and as a customer, I think it's my duty to complain and tell the server about the mistake so that the servers and chefs are less likely to make the same mistake again.
Chris Barnes I had a meat item given in a take away order, and then I complained in a post on their facebook page and made it a public issue to deal with. Mistakes happen is what they said to me, but I said yes, but on their end a mistake happened twice - the chef and server did not bother ensuring that they were not giving a meat dish to a person mentioned several times that they were looking for vegan options. Even if you make it an issue when you are at a sit down meal, you should also make it public on their page so that maybe higher management will see it.
Sushmita Roy it’s true. You will seem like “the asshole vegan” to most but the more people speak up the more likely food service establishments might be to give their employees basic food education at least on their own menus. Outside of veganism another important note is that some people have allergies. Some are an inconvenience and some are lethal. It’s not really acceptable imo for wait staff and kitchen staff to not be able to understand the requests of a paying customer when it comes to things they are unwilling or incapable of consuming. I also believe that if staff are aware of the dangers and someone requests something be made tailored to their allergy needs and the staff decides to make it a judgement call on if the customer is “actually allergic” instead of just complying it shows an attitude of entitlement that doesn’t lend itself to customer service for one and for two shows a lack of common sense that if you happen to be wrong you might have just committed attempted man slaughter and it should be grounds for immediate termination
As a biologist, I think that it is wrong to eat bivalves because they are considered animals and have a specific function in the ocean ecosystem. They either need to be wild caught or farmed in the same way that fish are, which is intensely destructive. Most people go to eggs and fish over bivalves because eggs and fish are far cheaper. Thanks for opening up the conversation! It is super helpful for us to talk about these grey areas.
But just because they are classified that way doesn’t mean much though. The morally relevant factor is suffering. Harvesting and eating farmed oysters does less harm to other sentient beings than many plants
@@SnackMuay Very true! I hope that some day we can tackle the issue with our harvesting practices to reduce harm (fingers crossed for more vertical farming indoors). I think in terms of bivalves for me it's animal enough so I choose to abstain from eating them. Definitely a grey area!
As a biologist, on the Oyster topic - they have nerve clusters but no central nervous system. There is another animal with a nervous system that we know DOES feel Pain, it's the starfish. For now, it may be seen as a complicated issue but in no way is it safe to assume they do not feel pain. Therefore in not knowing, it is not ethically acceptable to eat, kill or harm them. On a separate note suffering is not the only morally relevant factor. It's not moral to damage endangered wildlife habitat or endangered plant life. Not only that but destructive ecological forces lead to the suffering in pain of those in the food chain.
Stephen Michael yeah I took suffering as a result of ecological damage into account. I’m not someone who believes that forests and rivers are intrinsically valuable, but I *do* believe that they are valuable in the sense that they are vital to the well being and happiness of the sentient beings that depend on and enjoy them.
@@SnackMuay We are of similar minds then, all rivers & forests (on earth) having value though, being explored by sentient life though... Rewinding a bit, I'm curious how you've come to the understanding that bivalve harvesting is completed with less direct collateral animal death. I see no evidence of that. That said I still rather see people enjoy an oyster every so often over a steak once or twice weak
Ohhhh myyy gaaawwwdddd I cant believe you admitted to eating non-vegan food (the part about eating off peoples plates). The internet is a very wild and unforgiving place for Vegans who speak honestly like that and I’m so proud of you for speaking truthfully because it’s what you believe in and you are standing by your beliefs! I love this channel for so many reasons but this makes me love you even more than I already did. Thank you for being honest Rose ❤️
Yeeees, I agree with your grey areas. As environmentalist who is transitioning to veganism, I also see a lot issues with waste and I don't know how to justify it just because "I am vegan". But I am slowly reducing that because of the slippery slope argument.
Deimantė S. Exactly! I think environmentalism goes hand in hand with veganism considering the impact of animal agriculture but I am trying to work my way slowly into environmentalism and sustainability once I have perfected my veganism, however, I do sometimes struggle existentially and so I start no longer being invested at times in my own principles or morals, probably just depression though I do stay vegan.
ha hahah yeah, I know that palm oil is a hazard for animals and the environment though it is difficult to avoid perhaps I will look into sourcing alternatives to any palm oil derivatives.
@@leedent7260 It's actually really easy to avoid palm oil if you eat whole foods. The few packaged foods that I do get, like granola bars (which you can make yourself from whole foods from a bulk store), I always check the labels for ones that dont have soy or palm, and those are the ones that are usually tastiest
inmyworldkindagirl true and I am moving more towards whole food veganism rather than processed “goods” but I guess for now I will just read the labels on what I do have and maybe do some research on the ethical arguments against palm oil production.
I do not eat bi-valves. My unscientific reasoning is although these sea creatures do not have a central nervous system, I have read that when threatened by predators, they would run away, or seek the safety of their shells etc. As I said earlier, my unscientific reasoning says that there must be some level of conscious reasoning, in terms of awareness of danger and fear.
That's why most ostrovegans don't eat all of bivalves, only mussels and oysters, as they are the ones that are not able to move and thus are the least likely to be sentient.
Came in late but yea, I thought of her as just "another vegan vlogger". Turns out she and I have A LOT of common opinions. Personally the definition of plant and animal (or veganism per se) is outdated since it isnt based on sentience but rather if one can make food from sunlight; thats it. Dont get me wrong it is 99.99% accurate, but there are of course exceptions.
From the "damage is done" perspective, I'm a vegan for environmental reasons first, so that definitely influences my choices in a lot of these topics. For me, the most sensible thing to do in the restaurant scenario would be to pick it off, and if I'm out with omnis, I would give it to them. I've done that with foods that come with mayo on the side etc. I also wear second hand wool and leather, or such items that I owned before being vegan. If the item is in good condition, I'm reducing textile waste and not contributing to the leather demand.
as someone who works in restaurants, if you send a plate back 100% untouched, it is quite likely it will be eaten by the back of house staff - so it wont go to waste probably
@@subblonde3101 I hate when restaurants do that. I’ve worked at 3 restaurants and we eat the mistakes. Usually not after it’s been taken to the table though, unless the waitress never set it down.
I worked in a veggie restaurant for years, we could and were encouraged to eat sent backs etc but there was too much, there were cake cut offs and bread heels and the extra juice or coffee when too much was made already even before the sent back food. And you could eat the fresh stuff on your break anyway… so it was often wasted
Sydney Baker I’m allergic to dairy as well. Do you still find it hard to trust restaurants when making your food? Because I’m always kind of weary about it.
Yes, so hard. Even people say like "don't worry there is not diary". After an hour my stomach knows it and could be dangerous if you don´t have a toilet close by lol
It is a tough lifestyle to live, especially if you don't live in a vegan-friendly area, but once you change your mindset and realize that killing and harming other living beings is not okay, then you won't even have to try - it just wont even seem like an option to you anymore.
The best way to start is to cut back on things gradually. Like one week/month, you stop eating pork and then move down the line until you're not eating any animal products at all. And when it comes to cosmetics/toiletries, you can switch your go-to items out one at a time, too. Going in with an all or nothing mindset just tends to lead to bouncing back and forth between all vegan and all omnivore.
I am in the same boat. Slowly cutting out animal products. But I cut out all pig and cow products first, cuz they're the least healthy and make the biggest impact on the environment, and also they're the smartest of all livestock. I cut out eggs (except mayo, I want to try and make my own vegan mayo), and I'm eating less and less chicken and turkey. I eat mostly fish now, and i still havent found something that fully satifies me to replace chicken and fish but im trying. I dont eat soy because its super GMOd and throws off your hormones, and I don't really like beans. But I've been trying to get more into nuts, seeds, and lentils
@@inmyworldkindagirl Organic soy is actually great for hormones, it's been found to prevent and, sometimes, even reverse some types of cancer, including breast, ovarian and prostate cancer, which are all hormonal cancers. Check out nutritionfacts.org and the book 'How Not to Die' - all the links to the studies are there.
The reason I disagree about bivalves is that my approach to veganism is that animals do not exist for our use or consumption, and that applies whether they feel pain or not. That being said, fantastic content - per usual!
The fact that you’re so worried you’ll “get in trouble” for saying you picked on non-vegan food is exactly the reason I have problems with the vegan community. And seeing the comments just reinforces my point. If the damage is already done isn’t it worse for that chicken or cow to have lost its life anyway and it’s simply goes to waste? I agree with you on every one of these points and it’s people like you and UV who make me feel like I can be vegan even if I’m not perfect right away or if I make mistakes. Thank you so much for this video!
I agree with her and don't think any of these things are wrong however, if an animal killed you in the wild to eat you, would your life be considered a waste if they didn't actually eat your flesh? Just don't think that's a strong argument.
Kashi Sinha I’m not talking about buying them, I’m talking about the specific instances just like Rose is where the product was already bought (by someone else) or is being thrown away so they pick off it. Anytime you buy any animal product you’re increasing demand and that’s definitely wrong.
The animal was killed unnecessarily, it doesn't make it better just because their flesh "didn't go to waste". There's a difference between accidentally eating an animal product and willingly eating it because you are too embarrassed to say something to the waiter or you don't want to waste it. It might be environmentally friendly but veganism at its core is an animal welfare movement, it is not vegan to knowingly consume animals.
do you think the animal cares they "went to waste"? they went to waste the minute they were slaughtered and farmed for food. When you die, do you want to be eaten so you don't "go to waste"? That argument doesn't make sense to me. A vegan eating the animal isn't going to prevent another animal from being killed for food, so eating it doesn't help a bit imo.
Thank you for this!! We as vegans definitely need to shift our focus from micromanaging everyone's diets to rather just encouraging people to make ethical choices wherever possible.
I couldn't agree more about encouraging people to make more ethical choices. On the bivalve topic, you might find this neurology-based video interesting: No, Vegans Do NOT Eat Oysters! Yes, All Bivalves ARE Sentient! (Part 2.)
Whoa, the "consistency factor" just blew my mind. It's so so true. It's somewhat along the same lines as buying secondhand wool or keeping our pre-vegan, "non-vegan" clothing items. I've never had bi-valves, even before going vegan 14 years ago, but I personally wouldn't want to eat them, they are so grey and mushy looking and I've heard they're slimy AF bleecckkk!
The "consistency factor" for me would be called the "too lazy to do my research factor". I practise this a lot lol. It's the reason why I don't consume honey or wear wool. I'm too lazy to find out why/if it's bad, so I just avoid it.
I have never eaten them ever in my life and I just recently bought vegan shrimps that look scaryyyy. No idea what to expect from them or even how to prepare them 😀
I kept my leather jacket from before being vegan. and i buy secondhand clothing that may have animal products. I dont see what's wrong with that I think it would be wasteful to throw away a perfectly good item of clothing. Also buying second hand clothing is recycling and I see that as better for the environment (and some wild animals lol) than buying a new plastic and or synthetic piece of clothing that definitely polluted the waters around the factory. 🤷🏾♀️ And yes I know thrift stores have clothing that dont contain animals but it's usually diesnt hold up as well.
One thing that is a point of contention of veganism that is pushed to the wayside is that there is such a class privilege in order to stay vegan. For me, when I have been in a tough spot financially, I would eat animal products from people. So they would be either done eating, or they know I’m not eating for a meal and they would offer me chicken or cheese I would take it. If it’s a difference of getting my calories for the day and eating leftover chicken, guess what I’m going to do. Not necessarily “dumpster diving,” but definitely eating animal products when they are free.
You need to do what you need to do to survive. End of story. And there should be no shame on your part for doing so. If your malnourished it doesn't help anybody
@@norootsnomad1002 - I agree, especially if you buy in bulk. Dried legumes and all the other items you mentioned are FAR less expensive than meat. A lot of people are not aware that frozen veg are picked when ready, and frozen quickly. In some cases this makes them better nutritionally than fresh ones picked early then sold weeks later. But I also agree with Taylor. She's not talking about BUYING animal products. She's talking about not having money period, and eating what others offer vs going hungry. I don't think that it's an unreasonable thing for a person to do.
@@norootsnomad1002 - We agree that she's freegan. And, I think the whole "privliged" thing goes to far. But if your eating what others have discarded, beggars can't be choosers. Your kinda stuck with the remnants of other people's choices with very little control over what that might be.
@@norootsnomad1002 - I'm not arguing. You are though. People can agree on some areas and not others and not have it be a fight. You and I agree on some key points. But I think that the one not reading carefully is you. Under normal circumstances most people buy at least some food. When you have a place to prepare food, then veganism is far less expensive. But veganism isn't going to be a solution for someone who is homeless and eating out of a dumpster, or relying on the dollar menu at Wendy's as an example. So while I think that privileged is an overused trope these days, I acknowledge that I have far more choices in life because I have a place to prepare my own meals.
Love that you’re talking about this! For the cheese on pizza that you tried to order without cheese: I think you’re right the damage is done but sending it back helps the waiter/waitress realize they have made a mistake. That may be something they remember if another vegan comes through and it won’t happen to that person 😊 hope that makes sense!
The oyster topic is the first time I disagree with you. My personal reasons for not eating them are 1) I just see them as animals and as I was raised vegetarian I would never want to consume something that has to be killed. 2) I think some people denied for a long time that fish feel pain and suffer because they have a different/no central nervous system as well (I might be wrong, that's just how I remember it). Then there has been research to prove that fish can feel stress and pain. My conclusion is: humans don't know everything, just because we don't know how it works why should they not feel pain? My thought about the plants&pain argument is that I just have to eat something too. ;) And eating plants instead of animals that eat plants is avoiding at least some pain. (Fruitarianism is nothing I consider right now.) Anyways: Thanks for the video and your thoughts. I highly appreciate your videos.
@Choree’s Channel Giving up the killing of plants for food would mean the death of our favorite animals...us. Therefore, since eating plants is necessary and eating animals causes the death of more plants, eating only plants minimizes suffering which is the point.
I thought about that oyster topic for a long time... It's the same reason for me why I don't consume them. Don't want to be labled as a non-veg. And I still feel kinda sorry for them even though I know they can't suffer like other animals who have a nervous system. Greetings from Germany! Love your channel!
but like I 100% agree with what you're saying. You're my favourite vegan youtuber just for the fact you are logical, consistent, vegan for the animals and SUPER sweet and well-spoken.
ok I finished watching, and I have definitely experienced the same thing. When I first made the commitment to go vegan there were still a few times when I would nibble on dairy chocolate my parents bought, just because it was there you know? But now I'm really into activism I just can't eat animal products at all, even if they're going to go to waste, because I don't want to be hypocritical even though it might not be directly contributing to animal suffering/exploitation- I guess it's a virtue thing.
Regarding bivalves, here's the thing that I think we as the vegan community need to think about. We get really hooked up on the word "animal," and to be fair, so does everyone. We throw that word around a lot, but that doesn't always mean we're actually using it correctly. Case-and-point how many people use the word animal as if we are somehow not a part of the animal kingdom ourselves. I think we need to remind ourselves about the scientific aspect to it. "Animal" is in reference to the biological kingdom "Animalia" under the domain "Eukaryota" along with "Plantae," "Fungi," and more. What I think vegans should be concerned with isn't simply what kingdom an organism is from, but rather if that organism is capable of conscious perception. Now, we happen to live on a planet where all forms of sentience and sapience occur in the animal kingdom, but that doesn't actually mean all animals are the same in that regard. In fact, there are a lot of smaller classifications of animals that aren't sentient. Sponges, Cnidarians (Sea Anemones, Sea Jellies, Coral, Sea Fans, etc.), and some Mollusks, a.k.a. our bivalves, are all examples of species that we have no current reason to believe have any capabilities for thoughts and feelings. This quality makes these creates not unlike any other organism from other kingdoms, such as various plants or fungi, when it comes to sentience. My Point is, trying to hold onto the world "animal" as if that's the term we need to focus on is kind of misleading. Think of it this way: What would happen if we discovered a species of plant that contained either a brain and central nervous system, or set of organs that we learned functioned similarly enough to have at least some confidence in labeling this plant species as sentient? What if that plant was also turned into a delicacy by whatever part of the world they were native to? Would you eat them? It's not an animal after all. Obviously, that's not really a concern that we need to worry about right now, and unless we suddenly encounter an alien planet bustling with all different life forms, a concern we probably will not ever need to worry about. But this hypothetical does point out the flaw in focusing in on the word "animal" and stopping right there. Listen, I don't eat bivalves either for a lot of the same reasons that Cheap Lazy Vegan brought up. I've never eaten them, but it's just not a kind of food I've ever been enticed by due to the way its eaten. But, I do bring it up to my friends or with people I meet when we get onto food topics. It's a topic that can be seen as "flexible" for a lifestyle that most people deem "inflexible," which I think can help change the modern perception of veganism to some people.
OMG this is 100% what I always say to my friends, even the plant with brain/alien argument haha. I come from Spain and mussels and oysters are not super common food, but not as weird as in other regions (like 3-4 times a year). And I see that on the rare occasions I'm confronted to them with family or friends, eating them makes the others engage in deeper conversations where they truly try to understand the reasons of my veganism (ofc, aside from the annoying person being annoying, but those are a lost battle anyway).
But bivalves have ganglia. They have pain receptors which is why they squirm when you cook them. I don't know that they have an awareness of the pain but they can feel it.
hope she reads this! and address it on her 2nd video. it's not that she doesnt care about them, i just think shes not knowledgeable about everything like everyone else! thus she's very open to be corrected. let's enlighten each other without judgment 💕 i dont know much about bivalves either but conversation like this encourages people to research and that's a good thing.
@I Got You Babe Plants feel pain too. It's a different kind, so we ignore it, but they do. We choose them over animals because it's less suffering in the grand scheme of things -- but they still suffer. These sea creatures suffer and trying to say it's okay completely defeats the purpose of veganism. You clearly don't know what stimulants are.
that's the difference between venus fly trap and bivalves, carnivorous plants react to stimuli through electric signals, while oysters actually have nerve cords, there is a reason why venus fly trap is classified as a plant, and not as an animal, which is basically the same reason why bivalves and jellyfish are classified as animals and not as plants @I Got You Babe
From what I remember from a biology class that focused on marine science, thay while bivalves do have ganglia, without a central nervous system there isnt a place for pain to be transmitted to. The professor described it as liquid (pain) traveling through a straw (nerve ending) into the mouth (brain, nervous system). Remove the termination point, and the sensation of pain isnt received. It's kind of hard to really comprehend what that would be like. I'm not saying you should eat them or anything. But even for as a complex being as a human, we don't wait for the brain to tell us to pull our hands out of a flame, it's an automatic reaction handled long before the pain hits the brain.
I feel like with insects... if they attack you like a mosquito or invade your house like a cockroach it can affect your health, so I don't feel morally wrong about killing them. I put spiders outside tho , and I love moths, butterflies, bees, and other insects.
Em S spiders get shooed out and the bugs with lots of legs can stay. They eat the small bugs. Ants can go and bed bugs can go. I’m just lucky I wasn’t one who’s ever had an infestation. Be lucky you’re privileged enough not to either. I bet you’d kill them then.
I agree about the oysters. Also, thank you for always being so rational! *Edit: After watching the entire video, I actually agree with everything that you said about each topic.
Danielle Johnson I don't know if you where aware of this, so I thought id share. ☺ when oysters, muscels and other Bivalves are caught, other animals like fish, birds etc can get caught in the nets and die along with them. as is the case with large scale fishing. that would be the ethical arguement for it. again just wanted to share ☺ we also thought fish didnt feel pain at one point, so why take the risk?
If other beings getting killed along with things that dont have feelings by default is the argument, would it be the same argument for the plants that get sprayed and bugs dying. I dont eat oysters or anything and im vegan im juat curious what you think of this?
voguecas no. 1) they may be able to feel. for a long time we thought fish werent able to feel pain. we where wrong. 2) the ocean is dying and its predicted that there will be no fish by 2050. (you can look this up on Google for more info) 3) thw biggest thing is......we dont need to. it indirectly causes unessesary suffering. fruits and veggies are something we need. being vegan is about reducing harm as much as possible. eating animals we dont need to eat, that may suffer after all on top of the bycatch, when we can easily eat other things, doesn't follow the definition of what being vegan means. ☺ life saving medicine is vegan. fruits and veggies are vegan. Bivalves are not. I hope this makes sense. ❤
Seriously needed this video. I went vegetarian when I was 13 ( I’m 31 now) I went vegan a few years ago and mid March I had my daughter who was born early at 34 weeks, this being first pregnancy was already a adjustment but in December I started having major health issues and I started eating meat and dairy again because I couldn’t keep food down and my doctors were worried about our health and I hated myself so much I felt like such a Hypocrite because I was doing the very thing I had fought against for years but the amount of hate I had for myself was nothing compared to my fellow vegan pregnant mamas or vegans who don’t have kids and have never had to make that choice. Now that she’s born I got the go ahead to slowly transition back to veganism I just wish that all my fellow vegans were a little more kinder and less judgmental towards each other this is why some ppl never go vegan because if your not perfect the vegan police will belittle your efforts . Anyway love the video keep being awesome Rose💚
I agree with everything you said in this video! I view food waste as a huge problem so if it can be minimized with dumpster diving then I'm all for it👍 for the next video I would love for you to talk about honey! I feel like honey is also a grey area to many vegans.
Honey I think is the most grey of the grey areas as I know that the more bee hives there are the more bees there are and bees are critical for our survival. I don't know about other places but in Australia the hives are almost always in secluded places where the bees have access to flowering trees, they're free to come and go, and the apiarists love them. I actually don't eat honey but tbh, it wouldn't worry me to do so.
My view on honey personally is that it’s become more ethical, though I don’t know all the facts. Besides beekeepers being kinder/more ethical, I want to support the existence of bees through buying honey. It’s honestly sad that one reason bees aren’t dying out quite as quickly as they could is because we spend money on them, but here we are
Yes to the honey thing! I've (basically) always been in support of using honey because we have created a safer environment for bees in decline, and honey is a source of potassium and is a good sugar to consume. I think as long as you research brands of honey to make sure they're ethically sourced (I like local honeys for this) it is a-okay for me, personally. Everyone can make their own decisions though because at the end of the day, it is an animal product.
Just knowing that honey is regurgitated bee vomit is enough to make me not want to eat it. I am not too familiar about the whole process of honey and the bees' relationship with it, but it does not seem ethical to use bees in that way for consumption. I think bees should be protected for our survival and the food supply, but buying and eating honey does not seem like that would accomplish that to me.
I refused to eat a soup at a restaurant because it had animal products....beef and was pressured by my father-in-law to “eat it because the cow’s already dead” . I just couldn’t see it as anything other than a bowl of pain, suffering and death. I didn’t want that to become part of me and so I didn’t eat it. I have picked off cheese before too so I get this grey area. I have a grey area for honey too. From what I’ve seen bees aren’t harmed but it does seem like a really rude thing to do so I avoid it.
ugh I hate how honey's hidden in so many products. It's in so many whole wheat breads, saw honey in tortilla chips and almond milk before. I'll be honest I've gotten bread before and didn't notice the honey in the ingredients (I saw molasses and sugar and assumed there wouldn't be honey) after having the bread a few times I noticed honey in the ingredients. So easy to find milk and eggs thanks to the allergy but not bee vomit
I don't want to eat animals for ethical reasons, but more importantly because I am disgusted by them. I don't see them as any different than eating a dog. Any animal would be repulsive for me to eat.
I love the your rational standpoint on these issues, I talk about the grey areas with non-vegans all the time. I actually think it helps to make veganism seem more credible to those people who see it as a fad or "extreme". It makes them question why some choices are more ethical than others, and helps them connect the dots between the choices they make and the impact they have.
The reason I feel like some of these things are not vegan is because I feel that it is disrespectful to eat the corpse of a murder victim, whether it was going to be “wasted” or not. I think it would be unethical to eat someone’s dead pet cat companion for the same reason, if that makes sense. I feel the same way about pre-vegan makeup, leather and fur. As far as bivalves, I just find it highly unlikely that they are the only animal that isn’t sentient. It just doesn’t make sense to me personally. There is a lot that we don’t know, so for this issue I prefer to err on the side of caution. Another issue I see is that when we do something like eat an animal product that someone didn’t finish, we are saying we think eating an animal product is okay on some level, which can lead to justifications on the other party’s part and diminish the movement. I’m really glad you brought these up for discussion and I completely get where you’re coming from. Just wanted to share my opinions on these things and I hope my explanations are helpful to someone struggling with answers to these questions.
I agree with you about feeling disrespectful. I don't agree with you about bivalves. If I get served something with vegetarian animal products I do my best to pick it off, otherwise I send it back x
They are not the only animals that are not considered sentient, simply the only animals westerners eat regularly that are not. Sponges, also classified in the animal kingdom, are not considered sentient.
Holly Mantooth I actually avoid buying sponges as well for the same reason, as well as shells. I’m not gonna pretend like I know everything about this topic but like I said, I prefer to err on the side of caution because it is just so easy for me to avoid these products.
I once went with my father to catch some bivalves (don't remember the exact type) in the river, and one of them had like the little tongue out, and I touched it and it went inside and that was sooo cute. I felt so bad eating them afterwards and could never eat them again, and that was before I stopped eating eggs and dairy.
I agree, even thou I think I wouldn't eat non-vegan food. One thing I would do is if I had (I don't think I have) real leather clothing from before I went vegan I would still be using it until it was worn out. But yeah, it's just impossible to be 100% vegan 100% of the time, and from the definition of veganism which is to exclude the exploitation and cruelty "as far as is possible and practicable", we need to be gentle to ourselves and think we did the best we could if something was not avoidable, instead of thinking "I screwed it so f*ck it" and going 180 degrees back to eating all animal products lifestyle.
I recently had a little flip out when I discovered that my favourite veg gyoza were made with oyster sauce and then I went through your logic re bivalves. Still not going to buy them again but not being hard on myself for eating them before.
I totally agree with everything you've talked about. But also very rarely talk to my fellow vegan friends about them, because oh boy that stigma of not being "the perfect vegan" is REAL
Awesome video! Veganism is largely about ethics, that being said ethics are by definition a subjective and very personal subject. For my part I went vegan to reduce my carbon footprint , avoiding animal cruelty is just an awesome byproduct. Although I’m usually very strict about my vegan diet, I am about to open up a vegan bakery here in Mexico City I try to taste bread from every bakery I can find. So I guess I’m getting a regular dose of Butter and eggs(yuk). Why? Simply to not just aproximate, but improve the taste of my product over their traditional counterpart. Is that immoral? Nah! Honestly, let’s avoid judging each other and strive for a more supportive and cohesive community. There’s plenty of challenges in this lifestyle as it is. BTW, thanks for turning me on to tofu. It’s an awesome thing.
💕 hope all will be well for your bakery! and as long as you don't have health issues with butter and egg, yes i agree! if it means to make nonveg people see and taste that we can make great delicious food without the animal cruelty, your way is going to have a long term good effect on the veganism movement and community 💕 and yes, just don't judge each other. whether or not people who knows you're vegan see you and judges you right away and not give you space to explain just let them be. people have a lot to say like always. just as long as you know your whys and has good intentions, then go continue 😊
Munir Hamdan, That's a very interesting and compelling argument! In some way, you're actually making a personal sacrifice by sampling non-vegan food for a greater good. I'm still somewhat torn because animals are also being sacrificed in the process without consent. It's like the gastronomical version of the "Trolley Problem".
Interesting point. Although it reminds me about the argument of the impossible burger being tested on animals not making it vegan anymore. I personally think the sacrifice was justified because it yielded a better product that could promt more people to try vegan alternatives, but many dont hold the same sentiment.
Great video just wanted to add to the pizza dilemma .... I think sending it back gets it in the restaurant workers heads that the dish is not vegan and that vegans are serious and they need to add options, but it’s so minute of a driver that I think also that all of the mentioned possible are ethical... love the green hair
We (or at least I) don't always make the reason why we won't eat certain things clear. But when you work with food, you must be extra responsible, extra aware of what is asked, of what you put in the plate. It could be an allergy, for example, restaurants must be aware of that kind of mistake.
Personally with bivalves I just don’t think it’s right to kill an animal even if they don’t know what’s necessarily happening. Idk it’s definitely a tricky discussion because I mean I guess you could argue the same about plants but I just don’t feel it’s right ethically. I don’t know it just doesn’t feel right to me, and I feel bad for them:( Environmentally they’re extremely overfished and because they’re so important in filtering water the lack of oysters is contributing to water pollution. No hate just in case it somehow came across that way:) lol I worry because it’s so hard to see tone in text😂
@@babykitty7052 you comment the same thing in every other comment and i liked it. Please continue to do so even if it's considered spam. I knew about palm products years ago but i recently saw footage of it.... It was so devastating... :(
It's hard to agree with that "eat it cause damage is done". I would take it home and give someone who is non vegan or just return the plate. That is your right and you shouldn't be feeling shy about telling them. Someone could be allergic to something, does that justify their mistake? Of course not. I understand where you're coming from, but still this part confuses me.
The consumption aspect of all of these topics (oysters, insects, freeganism, etc) is the main reason I am going plant-based/vegan. Supply and demand is powerful and the way we use our dollar is huge!
Barbour and belstaff are companies that make and sell waxed cotton products that are stronger than leather and water resistant they are a good alternative but they are expensive
I really get what you mean with the whole “damage has already been done” thing. I still wear my leather shoes that I got before I was vegan and I still buy wool jumpers if they’re second hand. It doesn’t matter if others say I’m not vegan because of this because veganism should just be all about your personal views and ethics
I don't know if you are aware, but when bivalves are caught, there is Bicatch along with it. other animals get killed along with them. the ocean needs oysters to clean the waters, and our oceans are polluted enough. those would be the ethical reasons to not eat Bivalves. just passing the information along ☺
@@frankchen4229 good point. there's also the Mercury concern though and apparently they have nerve ganglia to feel pain. so I still avoid just in case.
I like multiple things about you Rose, but what I love the most is your critical thinking. I think most people don't take the time to think by themselves and question their beliefs. You always bring good points to the table and ALWAYS from a very "human" point of view. Discussions on those topics are important and you use your platform very well to stimulate the conversation.
So agree with you on every single thing you said! This is why I’m not putting any labels on myself. Even though I eat a fully plant based diet no matter circumstances (I can’t tolerate meat or dairy so I have no problem sending food back otherwise it’s bad for my health, or I give it to people I went out with) and buy ethical and vegan makeup, skincare and cleaning solutions, not everything in my house is vegan. My couch is filled with duck feathers, I have some wool items, but I can’t afford to give them away and buy new ones, I’ll wear them until they fall apart. Those are items that were bought before I learnt about the ethical aspect of them so I feel like it’s better to make the sacrifice worth it instead of making more waste and spending money and buy replacements immediately. However this might not be “vegan enough” for some because people do tend to have only black and white perception of labels. For me it’s important to contribute to ethical businesses and support my values with my purchases but at the same time evaluate the environmental impact of my actions to avoid unnecessary waste. ♻️🌱🐰
I personally don't eat bivalves because of the ick factor, and because they're considered animals and I don't eat animal products as a vegan. I'm also conscious of the health and environmental effects, for instance the increasing risk of "red tide" contamination in marine-raised bivalves. Also, except for a couple exceptions, I never liked seafood anyway - the fishy taste was/is disgusting. Honestly, I don't think I could ever eat another animal product knowingly, whether "freegan", insect, other people's leftovers, or accidental contamination. It's too gross to me, and they'd affect my health anyway. There's also the problem of moderation (inline with what you referred to as "slippery slope"), where if I let myself have an animal product in one instance, what stops me from consuming it in other situations? I have low willpower in ambiguous circumstances, as in: if I say I can have "a few cookies" I'm just as likely to eat all of them. If I were to say I'd eat "some animals, in some circumstances", I don't know if I'd stop there, and I'd rather not find out.
that's very good for you. self-control and "abstinence". i admire that. avoiding to"test the waters." but it's also really good that she posted it. i have been reading many nonveg people commenting Rose encourages them that they can and will consider veganism. i think shedding the light in this conversation is great in a vegan community where lots of vegans are very "militant" because of their passion which isn't really encouraging but condemning. and we cant encourage people to take the switch if they feel condemned/shamed. really love this video of hers!
It’s so refreshing to hear another fellow vegan talk about these situations! I’ve been in pretty much all the situations you mentioned (besides the oyster one) and I never felt it was wrong because from an ethical stand point the damage was already done anyways and I’d rather finish someone’s plate than have it be thrown away (except for meat and fish which I can’t eat, to me eggs and dairy are different than meat and fish even though they both cause harm). Thank you!!
I watched an interesting video about dumpster divers. With experience, they’re quite intelligent on knowing what’s good and bad. With proper cooking, even disposed meat can not cause health issues. Just all depends how long it’s been out there and the temperature. Obviously 2 days old meat in 90 degree weather may not be good lol
I'm all for freeganism as long as it definitely doesn't increase demand. If you work with food at your job and animal products are about to go to waste then I don't see why you couldn't take it home with you. Personally I wouldn't be able to stomach meat but I would never tell a vegan that they're not really vegan for eating meat that's going to be wasted. When I was a barista at a patisserie and ate the croissants that were about to be trashed it didn't make me suddenly "see animal products as food" it just prevented that food from going on the trash.
Constant Disappointment i agree, I definately wouldn’t eat it but contributing demand is a huge thing for me so if it doesn’t contribute then I think it’s ok
Freeganism is not veganism. Just because the animal was already killed doesn't fix the fact that it was killed. I still see it as wrong to eat, like eating a dog. But with that said, I would not shame someone for freeganism. I just think it is disgusting.
@Anna R when I lived in Texas I tried every noninvasive way I possibly could to discourage fire ants from invading my home and attacking me while I was minding my own business doing the dishes. *Nothing worked.* So, yes, death to fire ants.
I am on a Daniel fast and it is a vegan diet. I have been watching your channel to get through it. It is awesome and I feel great! I will have to plan ahead to make it a permanent life style. I will see what I am called to do after Passover.
It is a 21 day fast that the prophet Daniel used in the Bible. There are books out to help you get through fasting and praying. I am doing a 40 day fast. Fasting and praying was very common in the Bible. Blessings.
very cool! I have 2 resouces I suggest you look into: 1) www.Challenge22.com gives you a Mentor, recipes&advice and you can also talk to a registered dietician for free!! 2) have you heard of the Happy Cow App? it tells you what restaurants to eat at for good Vegan food, with reviews. I hope this helps! thank you for showing compassion to animals. ❤🐾
I went vegan after a Daniel fast. It wasn’t what I was fasting for, but a happy result! Good luck to you! Start off slow and don’t get discouraged if you slip up, just keep working at it.
I could listen to you talk FOREVER! You may go off on tangents but they are relevant and entertaining. You tend to back up your arguments very well and in general have solid arguments. I love these longer videos!
I love dumpster diving in general! Freeganism sounds good in theory like you explained it, but it still reinforces the idea that animal's bodies are something to eat, and that is a paradigm we need to change if we want to see a vegan world. But dumpster diving does seem like a great option to feed rescued animals (like cats) that need to eat meat
Thank you SO much for this video. As a new person transitioning into the lifestyle I had a large struggle dealing with how rigid and judgmental the community can be, especially when I got the feeling that ‘black and white’ viewpoints had to do with keeping up appearances more than anything. It made me feel like I couldn’t live up. It’s nice to hear discussion and questioning the how and why without a mind set of ‘no...wrong....cant’ for no other reason than the fact that people will take away your vegan card. Life is a spectrum at the end of the day.
100% agree with basically everything you're saying in this video. Feel like you and unnatural vegan are both really balanced and thoughtful in your approach, I find myself reasoning in the same ways so it's nice to hear this from other vegans :)
Hey girl! Looking flawless! My reply on the topic would be so long but to keep it short I agree with your views and it's a very good topic to bring up and discuss. Thank you for helping me along on this new vegan life I'm living.
HI!!! Thanks for the video! I don't eat all sea life because of the environmental implications! Animal welfare factor is still there, but clams are being over harvested at aggressive rates!! Clams/Oysters are SOOOO good for ocean ecosystems! I live in Virginia and oysters have a HUGE potential to filter pollutants and they're so good at it!! Leave the sea creatures alone because we already do enough with dumping into the ocean
Yo just what to share this story regarding bivalves (I wasn't vegan at that time but it was a turning point which made me consider to go vegan) When I was teenager, my mom's office friends decided to do a beach outing. Before heading to the beach, we prepped the food in one of her friend's house that lives near the beach. So the food was an all out BBQ of seafood and meat. And goat meat stewed in tomato sauce. This dish was my all time fave. Until they brought out the goat. A live goat. Which they killed and skinned in the back kitchen. It didn't cry out loud but it trashed around before it died. Then I looked at the eyes and it was crying. I watched the whole thing- idk so I can prove I have the guts or I am strong-willed or whatever. No. I felt sorry for the goat. I was part of its suffering because I wanted to its meat for my satisfaction. I didn't touched or went near the stew or ate the meat that was being served when we were at the beach. So here comes the bivalves, the locals were selling them so I decided to cook and eat them. Long story short, I had the bad case of diarrhea for 2 days. Never ate goat or bivalves again. After trying for 5yrs, I am already 4months in being vegan. All of my ethical dilemmas consuming animal products from all those years were resolved 🌱
😭🐐 Lamb was one of the last things I had before I want vegan 🐑 I was vegetarian, but I had never tasted it before. My family had cooked it, and I just tried a piece.
Fabulous mature discussion. Also enjoyed the very good other comments. What I noticed was the waste argument, and how waste also appears as a justification in disordered eating. A physically unwell person (e.g. just had a heart attack) might persist in eating an animal food that could kill them, because of not wanting to waste it. So waste might not be good argument in that case. And as food all goes back into the earth, it will still enrich the earth anyway, so the vegan does not have to process that animal food through their body to prevent waste. Maybe we need to think seriously about whether the waste from that place will be composted, and put plenty of effort into preventing animal 'food' from being produced in the first place.
Love the people in these comments who have no idea how many animal lives a commercial kitchen "wastes" as a matter of course. A vegan sending her pasta back because the house put cheese on it is the least of these problems. No other eater would be expected to submit to eating food they can't have because of sacrifices made to create it.
I really enjoyed this video. I am still working to be 100% vegan and am always so fearful of mean people who will yell. Sometimes things happen by accident (like the cheese on salad thing) and I don’t want to waste it so I’ll eat a small amount.
I never had oysters in my life, went vegan over 6 years ago. I still have some clothes, belts, shoes that are not vegan but I've had them before going vegan; the damage is already done so I just keep them though most of the things I don't wear bc I feel guilty knowing what I know now.
I can’t thank u enough for continuing to educate me. I’m vegan but have not heard of such terms. ( freeganism) I’m very hard on myself as a vegan but we r human- I’ve had slips too. I will always love & respect you
I really appreciate your willingness to go into the grey areas, Rose. It means a lot to me because I've never been 100% vegan. There's just so much nuance and so many reasons why I've eaten meat and dairy at times over the years I've considered myself vegan. A big thing for me is traditional foods from my home culture. When I visit my grandmother and she cooks for me, it's a very special tradition to us. She does a lot to make a vegan option for me, but it's not perfect. Sometimes there's cheese in there and some times I eat the traditional food with meat or cheese. I think for me, focusing on the 90% of my diet that is vegan is important. Instead of berating myself for the occasional meat or dairy. And when I talk to friends who want to go vegan, they tell me that they couldn't give up one thing (chicken bullion, eggs, etc.). So I encourage them to add lots of vegetables into their diet and see how they feel, but not to force themselves to never again have chicken bullion again if they love it. Ultimately, coming from a place of compassion and understanding, people have told me makes my lifestyle seem relate able, and like veganism is something they can try too. I think that's overall good for the movement to have more people eating more of a vegan diet. Rather than insisting on purity/perfection. And exclusion if you can't meet that ideal. I've been feeling really down and confused about the vegan community lately. This discussion in comments was just what I needed 💜
I really appreciate your honesty in this video! I think the more we openly discuss these grey areas the more we can all be a little more understanding when it comes to things like dietary habits, which makes vegans seem a lot more sympathetic to non-vegans who maybe have this idea that veganism is this militant, all-or-nothing lifestyle. I also think a black and white mindset is unhelpful in this situation, not only because you're maybe restricting yourself unnecessarily, but also because it contributes to this idea that veganism is something you can 'fail' at, which I feel pushes people away from it. As a long time veggie and recent vegan my advice to people who 'slip up', make questionable decisions or feel guilty is, forgive yourself and carry on! If you gave into a craving one time, tried a friend's food, or accidentally ate meat or cheese or whatever, it doesn't mean you've blown your one chance at being vegan. It's still a net movement in a positive direction imo. Really looking forward to part 2!
I completely agree with you, Rose! And it's your very rational arguments that led me to veganism in the first place. The oyster thing I never really thought about, but I think like you said, as long as you're feeling fine without eating them, just don't. And I have eaten "accidentally" non-vegan foods before, precisely because I didn't want it to go to waste and because the damage was already done. Same reason I still buy leather products (like shoes) secondhand (in charity shops) . I don't see myself contributing to the industry by doing that. But I think its also a very personal standpoint. Haven't done the picking at a friend's leftover yet, but I get what you're saying. Veganism as a whole isn't that hard for me, but I think someone who's struggling to stay off animal products has to be more careful I guess... It's all a very individual thing and I love that you're constantly encouraging people to have other opinions. We just all need to be more respectful of each other 💚
There is a part of me that wants to find the video to see what she says but there's that other part that feels like I don't want to give her the views.
I tried freeganism 3 weeks into me be plant based, I ate left over meat rissoles my mother in law made because I didn’t want to waste food, it would go bad if I didn’t eat it and end up in landfill since I can’t compost it. So I did it reluctantly. I felt so sick about it,mentally, I was grossed out that I ate a dead baby lamb, then I had a stomach ache because my body wasn’t used to it. Then I also didn’t want to get my tastebuds used to eating animals again, so for those reasons I stopped and never ate meat ever again.... except for when it was an accident...
I think because of the fact that I don’t view animal products as food, I wouldn’t even consider ever putting them in my body, just because “the damage has already been done”. So, I would return it probably, or pick off the animal product depending on the meal. On top of that, I’m quite spiritual and believe that everything is connected, so when you consume something that lived a life of misery and was brutally killed, you’re not only supporting that institution, but you’re also digesting that energy and in a way it becomes a part of you. I know it sounds extreme, but I only want to consume things I know don’t cause pain and suffering, negatively impact the environment, or my own health. However, I would understand if someone felt it was ok to consume the animal product in that situation because they didn’t want to create more waste. I love your videos! 💛
Great video! I love how reasonable thoughtful you are, but I feel the need to mention that the "slippery slope" argument is a logical fallacy. There is no research/data to support the theory that taking a minor action will lead to major and sometimes ludicrous consequences. Otherwise excellent! 💕
Thank you so much for opening up this discussion. I’ve debated on going vegan for a very long time, but the black and white stances, the “you should eat this and not this,” has always thrown me off from making the full switch because I don’t want to do it “wrong” or “bad.” Hearing you talk about mistakes and moving forward and the issues of these topics make me feel better and more confident in moving towards full veganism
@@liltiiiff Thats awesome. I ate alot of animal products multiple times a day aswell. Its funny that you are sorta the opposite of my situation but in a good way. I am veagan mainly for health and the animal stuff is a bonus while you do it for the animals and the hallth stuff is a bonus.
Steve Danger this is a great point! I love it because it cuts through all the ideology and gets straight to the point. I understand caring for animals, but first and foremost, we need to eat to survive.. Therefore, HEALTH should be our main concern imo 💖✌😀
You can consume a healthy diet eating omnivore. There are also many ways to eat terrible vegan diets: full of sweets, processed foods, or deficient in nutrients. Veganism isnt about health lol. Its about ethics
@@Neverseenstars i agree 100% with you. I geuss i should correct myself as I eat a Whole Food Plant-Based diet. But its much easier to say veagan but i geuss the ethics part might make people view me in a certain way.
Concerning freeganism: With many foodsharing communities around me, I think I would be able to redistribute the "saved" animal products to people around me (foodsharing-fairteiler, friends, family). I know lots of vegans who are active in foodsharing and still don't eat the animal products but give them to other people :) But generally, I woudn't judge vegans who eat animal products that would have otherwise been trashed
Intresting subject heard mushrooms had them but vegans still eat & love mushrooms but would like to see some more cooking vegan foods trying my best to not eat meats...
Mushrooms are unusual even in the plant family. Fungi predate green plants and are not as evolved. Mushrooms are less likely than plants to react to stimuli
You are one of those wonderful friends who finish their friends dishes when they leave over foods at restaurants. As an axious person I love you so much.
I think eating peoples leftovers is COMPLETELY fine 🙄 The only reason I might choose not to honestly is the thought that others might question me... ugh what even is vegan?
this is such a great idea. I really appreciate you opening dialogue and unlike a lot of health you tubers you make sure you know what you're talking about it.
Great discussion! I don’t eat oysters because I am not too sure whether they are sentient, and would rather by more cautious about it, and it helps that I don’t like eating them anyway. However, I am not worried about people being vegan in every way except for these grey areas.
Thank you for this video. I really think this quest for purity in veganism is what puts off a lot of people. Because when you think you will never do enough, some people don’t even try. Although you might do your best, no one is perfect and there also should be a reasonable choice between what’s ethical for the animals and what’s good for the whole planet. For example, there’s a French vegan RUclipsr who explained once she pondered and finally decided to use beeswax coated fabric to cover plates and stuff because it was more sustainable and ecological than using plastic wrappers. Anyways, I like you even more now.
As a new Vegan (1 month) after 30 years of consuming animal products, I REALLY appreciate this video and hearing your views on these topics I have pondered. I am currently travelling Australia in a van ans was recently in a tiny country town and ordered a VERY basic vegan sandwich.... it came to me with bread, butter, lettuce, tomato, ham, carrot and onion. I returned it and the woman bluntly said, "I don't know what vegan is". I explained it to her. She nodded and sent me a plate with lettuce and tomato. She was peeved! I sent it back and she demanded I pay for the first sandwich 🙈
This is why you're one of my favourite vegan youtubers!! you talk very realistically about veganism rather than a lot of vegans that are all or nothing ie. if it's not a plant or fungi then it's not up for discussion at all, which I don't think she be the case!
I own pet snails and shrimp and I cant eat them same with any bugs tho my grey area is honey. I do find ethically harvested honey to be ok so farmer plants bee plants and keeps hive healthy ect. (specially now when honey bee extinction is a thing)
I consider myself vegetarian because I don't have issues with honey or eggs - we have two female ducks that lay eggs and the eggs are infertile and would do nobody any good anyway, why waste them? We also have chickens and do have a rooster, but unless a chicken is sitting on the eggs they lure predators and/or rot. I definitely don't want to hurt animals, I love them. Honestly, I hate labels in general because a lot of times there are minor exceptions anyway. I do what I can to be a good person, can't that be enough?
Liivi Tantaal eating honey is not a vegan grey area because the official definition of veganism is avoiding all animal expoiltion and animal based products where practical this includes honey so official you are not vegan but rather are on a plant based diet so people that eat honey shouldn't be calling themselves vegan. I also don't agree with your reasons for consuming honey because I believe that honey consumption is contributing to the honey bee's extinction along with householder's not having enough pollinating plants in their gardens.
@@davidthescottishvegan well then im not a vegan honestly no one really cares if im vegan or not . I do get the point of people claiming to be vegan and then eating fish and what ever do be annoying and counter productive specially when those people are influencers. And also why it is grey area honey i mean. I have made also mistakes with cosmetics and ive used them up still but never bought again. I have mainly been plant based over 10 years so mistakes happen and the mindset all or nothing is bad in veganism its scaring people away tho ethically i do get it.
20:45 - This, in essence, is why I still say I am Vegetarian, and not Vegan. I have, and likely would eat a slice of cake at a birthday party (not usually though), or maybe have a glass of eggnog during Christmas. I don't care about being SUPER strict... 23:35 - I agree, and love you :)
Bivalves- I view all animals and their products, which includes honey and bivalves, as not mine to use. Plus the way the ocean is polluted and bivalves literally act as filters, I would assume that they are full of whatever grossness there is around them. Lastly, eating them because we have decided they are not in the same category as cows and pigs makes me think of three things: 1. that people will use that as a "see told you no one can live off or be happy with just eating a plant based diet". It makes it seem like even vegans cannot resist not eating something that is considered "meat" or an animal product. 2. is this not similar to people who love their dogs, but think nothing of pigs and cows. As a vegan, I understand that all these animals are sentient, but meat eaters do not or do not care. I feel this would just be another thing they would throw in our faces as a dumbass blast at veganism...like "plants have feelings...you are not vegan if you rescue animals...vegans are so desperate for meat they will eat the creepiest seafood out there". 3. not long ago there was a general consensus that fish did not have feelings/feel pain, but now they have found that to not be true. To me, it is just not worth the chance that they might be wrong about the pain. I look at it as how I think of people that actually say "well animals do not really feel pain like humans do....the animal does not know what "life" is so they do not understand losing it" and so many other stupid things. Picking animal products off-if this happens it means that I am at a vegan friendly not vegan place, which means that there are probably non vegans with me. So what I would do, and have done, is request a new dinner made correctly, BUT ask what they will do with the food. If they are going to throw it away, I state that I want them to pack it up for one of my non vegan friend or family members. But I will not pay for it, because that is their mistake and they were going to throw it away. Finishing someone's non vegan food- I would not do this because it would feel like I was going against my moral compass, and I feel that this confuses the non vegans the same as " i am vegan, but i still eat fish on fridays and a steak on my birthday" I understand what you are saying regarding the waste, but what happens to their waste if you weren't there? What if it was meat? Would you eat it if it wasn't something you liked even if it was going to waste? I do not know, I just think it can be a very slippery slope like you said. Freeganism- i am all about dumpster diving because the food waste is ridiculous. Have you seen the documentary "dive"? However, I would only take the vegan items, but if I find animal products that were safe and still cold (meat, etc) or non damaged dry goods I would donate those to homeless shelters if they would take them or give them to homeless if they could use them. I agree, there are gray areas, but I think they are not as gray if you just have your own line you will not cross...everyone's line will be different of course! My line is I just do not and will not eat animal products or exploit animals in anyway. So it is not a dilemma if someone made me something that is not vegan; I get a meal that is not vegan; vague animal products; etc. I always handle the situations with empathy, compassion, and gratitude, but I never knowingly cross the line I have made for myself.
This was one of the best vegan discussions I've seen in a long time. I think it can especially help newer vegans navigate situations they'll eventually encounter. Well done!
I'm slowly but surely reading your comments and this is why I love my audience - we are able to have intellectual and respectful discussions without hating on each other even in disagreement!!!! ❤️❤️❤️ Will respond to as many comments as I can, love you guys 😘
Cheap Lazy Vegan Love you! 💕
Can you please make a video about your opinon on honey and backyard eggs?
I am a vegan myself from an ethical argument alone, however i can't find any ethical reason for honey or backyard eggs and i would love to hear what you have to say
Cheap Lazy Vegan ok I have a couple of questions that I’ve thought about that have wanted to know about hearing others thoughts.
1. Sugar. When we go out and get something like orange cauliflower let’s say at P.F. Chang’s and they probably put non organic sugar.., is it not vegan to eat that? Idk thoughts I have sometimes. Same with almond milk or creamer that has cane sugar in it to be easy, is it vegan? I mean I guess there are labels but it’s so limiting as it is sometimes, that is seems ok.
2 fries from fast food. So with this one most fast food places don’t have separate fryers and they might fry something that isn’t vegan is it still okay 🤔 idk I call m.y self plant based because I feel like ppl get so strict and mean to us. Truly I don’t like labels because they are dangerous! Lol. But still we are all doing a great thing by not consuming most animal products in the world. Anyways, I liked this video a lot bc then it makes all of us who make mistakes feel better and know we aren’t alone. We just have to keep it up and stay strong and do better the next day ❤️❤️
@@ZeMidnightPepper here is a section on a website that explains why people go vegan and not vegetarian (including the reason why people avoid honey and backyard eggs).
www.carnismdebunked.com/why-dont-vegans/
@@dacia6247 the sugar thing is difficult to figure out, but the reason why it wouldn't be vegan is because of some types or brands of sugar being filtered with bone char during manufacturing. there are some clear exceptions such as organic sugar and beet sugar, as they never get filtered with bone char. you could also try calling the company about their brand, or look up sugar brands that don't filter with bone char. as for plant milks, I'm pretty sure that the sugar in them aren't filtered, but I could be wrong, and if I am wrong, then you could go for unsweetened plant milks. to learn more about if sugar is vegan, check this video. ruclips.net/video/RcbeJEUnii4/видео.html
as for vegan food being fried in the same oil as non vegan food, I'm not entirely sure, but as long as it's not fried in animal derived oil (such as fish oil), it's fine, since eating vegan food from the same oil used for non vegan food doesn't create a demand for the non vegan food (although I would rather use oil that didn't cook animal products when given the chance, like when I'm home). to learn more, see the comments on this reddit post. www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/2cg5qp/fried_in_the_same_oil_as_meat/
hope this helped.
I'm broke and often rely on our local food bank. They pretty much have a "take what you get" attitude and I don't spend my own money on the animal products, so in that instance I will consume them or give them to someone who does eat them. Outside of that I don't eat animal products. I think the perfectionist/purity complex a lot of vegans have turns people away from even trying to live more ethically. It did for me initially. Like you said, not everything is black and white. I don't call myself vegan because of all the technicalities, so I just call myself plant based.
I think it's very reasonable in your circumstances to do what you need to in order to survive. Have you checked out the local churches? I know mine has an agreement with Panera and they get the day old bread. They freeze it and give it out to the needy. Just a thought about another place you might want to try.
@@christines3638 Unfortunately we live in a small area surrounded by water so our choices are limited. We would need to take a boat to get to the closest major city. I appreciate you trying to help tho. 💕 I try to tell our food bank no eggs, meat, or dairy, but they have the attitude that since I'm poor I don't get to be picky. It's unfortunate, but we're still grateful for the help that we get. One day I will be able to make enough to buy all of my own food and it will be all vegan. Just have to keep dreaming and working hard. 😊
@@strawbunnymilk81 - Its a tough situation to be in. But just like a cow or a chicken you and your family have a right to survive. Do what you can. Make the right choices for what you do buy, which your doing, and that's enough for now. Maybe you can trade with others, I don't know. But I agree, your life will turn around and lots more options can be available when that happens
@Amanda B - I don't understand why the food banks are not jumping for joy when someone wants to forgo the popular and pricey meats and fish in favor of peanut butter or dried beans. It makes no sense to me, but yours is a common story. As far as cost goes...when my husband lost his job a few years back, we had 2 small girls, one a celiac. A friend let me go to Sam's Club where I bought a gigantic bags of rice, beans, flour, cornmeal and oats. They lasted forever. They were the base to every single meal I made and helped keep costs way down. We were also lucky in that our parents had a house in the woods and so we had an unlimited amount of firewood to heat our house with. Those 2 things kept us reasonably comfortable during the year+
Omg when you're food insecure eat WHATEVER you get 💜💜💜 you're not increasing demand
The reason I don't really think it's okay to consume bivalves is because they are bottom dwelling creatures. Like they bury themselves in the sand at the bottom and harvesting them often causes a lot of destruction of the surrounding environment (and it's possible that there is by-kill). So I consider unethical from an environmental standpoint
For the farmed oysters there is very little bi-kill (much less than plant farming) and they actually help filter the water and even help the dead zones we've created.
@@katyc.1402 Even more reason to leave them in the ocean so they can help filter the water. Idk if I have an opinion on farmed ones tbh
good argument, harvesting of a food source should be also in our minds, not to go crazy, but if we can and want, we should
Oysters are farmed above the sea floor
Mussels are cultured from ropes and plants act as filters to. Some of you are reaching.
I used to be a chef, and as a customer, I think it's my duty to complain and tell the server about the mistake so that the servers and chefs are less likely to make the same mistake again.
Chris Barnes I had a meat item given in a take away order, and then I complained in a post on their facebook page and made it a public issue to deal with. Mistakes happen is what they said to me, but I said yes, but on their end a mistake happened twice - the chef and server did not bother ensuring that they were not giving a meat dish to a person mentioned several times that they were looking for vegan options. Even if you make it an issue when you are at a sit down meal, you should also make it public on their page so that maybe higher management will see it.
@@sushmitaroy1667 you're right. Facebook pages are a great way of making sure your complaints and suggestions are heard
Also, it shows that there is a demand for vegan options and that helps the grow message
Sushmita Roy it’s true. You will seem like “the asshole vegan” to most but the more people speak up the more likely food service establishments might be to give their employees basic food education at least on their own menus. Outside of veganism another important note is that some people have allergies. Some are an inconvenience and some are lethal. It’s not really acceptable imo for wait staff and kitchen staff to not be able to understand the requests of a paying customer when it comes to things they are unwilling or incapable of consuming. I also believe that if staff are aware of the dangers and someone requests something be made tailored to their allergy needs and the staff decides to make it a judgement call on if the customer is “actually allergic” instead of just complying it shows an attitude of entitlement that doesn’t lend itself to customer service for one and for two shows a lack of common sense that if you happen to be wrong you might have just committed attempted man slaughter and it should be grounds for immediate termination
Agreed. “The damage is already done” is an appeal to futility. 🌱
As a biologist, I think that it is wrong to eat bivalves because they are considered animals and have a specific function in the ocean ecosystem. They either need to be wild caught or farmed in the same way that fish are, which is intensely destructive.
Most people go to eggs and fish over bivalves because eggs and fish are far cheaper.
Thanks for opening up the conversation! It is super helpful for us to talk about these grey areas.
But just because they are classified that way doesn’t mean much though. The morally relevant factor is suffering. Harvesting and eating farmed oysters does less harm to other sentient beings than many plants
@@SnackMuay Very true! I hope that some day we can tackle the issue with our harvesting practices to reduce harm (fingers crossed for more vertical farming indoors). I think in terms of bivalves for me it's animal enough so I choose to abstain from eating them. Definitely a grey area!
As a biologist, on the Oyster topic - they have nerve clusters but no central nervous system. There is another animal with a nervous system that we know DOES feel Pain, it's the starfish. For now, it may be seen as a complicated issue but in no way is it safe to assume they do not feel pain. Therefore in not knowing, it is not ethically acceptable to eat, kill or harm them.
On a separate note suffering is not the only morally relevant factor. It's not moral to damage endangered wildlife habitat or endangered plant life. Not only that but destructive ecological forces lead to the suffering in pain of those in the food chain.
Stephen Michael yeah I took suffering as a result of ecological damage into account. I’m not someone who believes that forests and rivers are intrinsically valuable, but I *do* believe that they are valuable in the sense that they are vital to the well being and happiness of the sentient beings that depend on and enjoy them.
@@SnackMuay We are of similar minds then, all rivers & forests (on earth) having value though, being explored by sentient life though... Rewinding a bit, I'm curious how you've come to the understanding that bivalve harvesting is completed with less direct collateral animal death. I see no evidence of that. That said I still rather see people enjoy an oyster every so often over a steak once or twice weak
Ohhhh myyy gaaawwwdddd I cant believe you admitted to eating non-vegan food (the part about eating off peoples plates). The internet is a very wild and unforgiving place for Vegans who speak honestly like that and I’m so proud of you for speaking truthfully because it’s what you believe in and you are standing by your beliefs! I love this channel for so many reasons but this makes me love you even more than I already did. Thank you for being honest Rose ❤️
Lovely Little Furry Tails haha no way, not my style 😝😉😁
Jess ka lbu(is ya that ui4 is the way I ya
Are oysters vegan? Clear cut Truth by Gary Yourousky: ruclips.net/video/Peb_Ad7gtgA/видео.html
Yeeees, I agree with your grey areas. As environmentalist who is transitioning to veganism, I also see a lot issues with waste and I don't know how to justify it just because "I am vegan". But I am slowly reducing that because of the slippery slope argument.
Deimantė S. Exactly! I think environmentalism goes hand in hand with veganism considering the impact of animal agriculture but I am trying to work my way slowly into environmentalism and sustainability once I have perfected my veganism, however, I do sometimes struggle existentially and so I start no longer being invested at times in my own principles or morals, probably just depression though I do stay vegan.
Do your research on palm oil production.
ha hahah yeah, I know that palm oil is a hazard for animals and the environment though it is difficult to avoid perhaps I will look into sourcing alternatives to any palm oil derivatives.
@@leedent7260 It's actually really easy to avoid palm oil if you eat whole foods. The few packaged foods that I do get, like granola bars (which you can make yourself from whole foods from a bulk store), I always check the labels for ones that dont have soy or palm, and those are the ones that are usually tastiest
inmyworldkindagirl true and I am moving more towards whole food veganism rather than processed “goods” but I guess for now I will just read the labels on what I do have and maybe do some research on the ethical arguments against palm oil production.
I do not eat bi-valves. My unscientific reasoning is although these sea creatures do not have a central nervous system, I have read that when threatened by predators, they would run away, or seek the safety of their shells etc. As I said earlier, my unscientific reasoning says that there must be some level of conscious reasoning, in terms of awareness of danger and fear.
April Collins plants also defend themselves
That's why most ostrovegans don't eat all of bivalves, only mussels and oysters, as they are the ones that are not able to move and thus are the least likely to be sentient.
I decided I love you more now. Hahaha. Let's be more compassionate to our fellow vegans. 😂😂😂
Yes, we all need grace because none of us our perfect. We all make mistakes, especially in the beginning.
Came in late but yea, I thought of her as just "another vegan vlogger". Turns out she and I have A LOT of common opinions.
Personally the definition of plant and animal (or veganism per se) is outdated since it isnt based on sentience but rather if one can make food from sunlight; thats it. Dont get me wrong it is 99.99% accurate, but there are of course exceptions.
From the "damage is done" perspective, I'm a vegan for environmental reasons first, so that definitely influences my choices in a lot of these topics. For me, the most sensible thing to do in the restaurant scenario would be to pick it off, and if I'm out with omnis, I would give it to them. I've done that with foods that come with mayo on the side etc. I also wear second hand wool and leather, or such items that I owned before being vegan. If the item is in good condition, I'm reducing textile waste and not contributing to the leather demand.
as someone who works in restaurants, if you send a plate back 100% untouched, it is quite likely it will be eaten by the back of house staff - so it wont go to waste probably
someone else said this, never where i worked, you either had to pay or throw it out. Otherwise it encourages employees to fuck up.
@@subblonde3101 I hate when restaurants do that. I’ve worked at 3 restaurants and we eat the mistakes. Usually not after it’s been taken to the table though, unless the waitress never set it down.
I worked in a veggie restaurant for years, we could and were encouraged to eat sent backs etc but there was too much, there were cake cut offs and bread heels and the extra juice or coffee when too much was made already even before the sent back food. And you could eat the fresh stuff on your break anyway… so it was often wasted
I’m vegan, but I’m actually allergic to dairy. So I’ll be sending that plate back. But I always let them know that I am allergic when I order.
Sydney Baker I’m allergic to dairy as well. Do you still find it hard to trust restaurants when making your food? Because I’m always kind of weary about it.
YES!!!
I will say I’m allergic to dairy and egg(I’m not)instead of I’m vegan haha
Yes, so hard. Even people say like "don't worry there is not diary". After an hour my stomach knows it and could be dangerous if you don´t have a toilet close by lol
@@deg8644 That is wrong that you have had to go through that. People need to respect the fact that some people have allergies. Or be sued!
I love you videos, I’m not even vegan, but your videos make me want to be and give me hope that I will be one day.
It is a tough lifestyle to live, especially if you don't live in a vegan-friendly area, but once you change your mindset and realize that killing and harming other living beings is not okay, then you won't even have to try - it just wont even seem like an option to you anymore.
The best way to start is to cut back on things gradually. Like one week/month, you stop eating pork and then move down the line until you're not eating any animal products at all. And when it comes to cosmetics/toiletries, you can switch your go-to items out one at a time, too. Going in with an all or nothing mindset just tends to lead to bouncing back and forth between all vegan and all omnivore.
You can start from going vegetarian, that’s a slow but safe transition ;)
I am in the same boat. Slowly cutting out animal products. But I cut out all pig and cow products first, cuz they're the least healthy and make the biggest impact on the environment, and also they're the smartest of all livestock. I cut out eggs (except mayo, I want to try and make my own vegan mayo), and I'm eating less and less chicken and turkey. I eat mostly fish now, and i still havent found something that fully satifies me to replace chicken and fish but im trying. I dont eat soy because its super GMOd and throws off your hormones, and I don't really like beans. But I've been trying to get more into nuts, seeds, and lentils
@@inmyworldkindagirl Organic soy is actually great for hormones, it's been found to prevent and, sometimes, even reverse some types of cancer, including breast, ovarian and prostate cancer, which are all hormonal cancers. Check out nutritionfacts.org and the book 'How Not to Die' - all the links to the studies are there.
The reason I disagree about bivalves is that my approach to veganism is that animals do not exist for our use or consumption, and that applies whether they feel pain or not.
That being said, fantastic content - per usual!
The fact that you’re so worried you’ll “get in trouble” for saying you picked on non-vegan food is exactly the reason I have problems with the vegan community. And seeing the comments just reinforces my point. If the damage is already done isn’t it worse for that chicken or cow to have lost its life anyway and it’s simply goes to waste?
I agree with you on every one of these points and it’s people like you and UV who make me feel like I can be vegan even if I’m not perfect right away or if I make mistakes. Thank you so much for this video!
I agree with her and don't think any of these things are wrong however, if an animal killed you in the wild to eat you, would your life be considered a waste if they didn't actually eat your flesh? Just don't think that's a strong argument.
Kashi Sinha I’m not talking about buying them, I’m talking about the specific instances just like Rose is where the product was already bought (by someone else) or is being thrown away so they pick off it. Anytime you buy any animal product you’re increasing demand and that’s definitely wrong.
The animal was killed unnecessarily, it doesn't make it better just because their flesh "didn't go to waste". There's a difference between accidentally eating an animal product and willingly eating it because you are too embarrassed to say something to the waiter or you don't want to waste it. It might be environmentally friendly but veganism at its core is an animal welfare movement, it is not vegan to knowingly consume animals.
do you think the animal cares they "went to waste"? they went to waste the minute they were slaughtered and farmed for food. When you die, do you want to be eaten so you don't "go to waste"? That argument doesn't make sense to me. A vegan eating the animal isn't going to prevent another animal from being killed for food, so eating it doesn't help a bit imo.
Absolutely. The only wasted thing is that animal's life.
Thank you for this!! We as vegans definitely need to shift our focus from micromanaging everyone's diets to rather just encouraging people to make ethical choices wherever possible.
I couldn't agree more about encouraging people to make more ethical choices. On the bivalve topic, you might find this neurology-based video interesting: No, Vegans Do NOT Eat Oysters! Yes, All Bivalves ARE Sentient! (Part 2.)
Whoa, the "consistency factor" just blew my mind. It's so so true. It's somewhat along the same lines as buying secondhand wool or keeping our pre-vegan, "non-vegan" clothing items. I've never had bi-valves, even before going vegan 14 years ago, but I personally wouldn't want to eat them, they are so grey and mushy looking and I've heard they're slimy AF bleecckkk!
The "consistency factor" for me would be called the "too lazy to do my research factor". I practise this a lot lol. It's the reason why I don't consume honey or wear wool. I'm too lazy to find out why/if it's bad, so I just avoid it.
Did you know bivalves had eyes? Like HUNDREDS of EYES....?
Do you consume palm products? Coconut?
I have never eaten them ever in my life and I just recently bought vegan shrimps that look scaryyyy. No idea what to expect from them or even how to prepare them 😀
I kept my leather jacket from before being vegan. and i buy secondhand clothing that may have animal products. I dont see what's wrong with that I think it would be wasteful to throw away a perfectly good item of clothing. Also buying second hand clothing is recycling and I see that as better for the environment (and some wild animals lol) than buying a new plastic and or synthetic piece of clothing that definitely polluted the waters around the factory. 🤷🏾♀️
And yes I know thrift stores have clothing that dont contain animals but it's usually diesnt hold up as well.
One thing that is a point of contention of veganism that is pushed to the wayside is that there is such a class privilege in order to stay vegan. For me, when I have been in a tough spot financially, I would eat animal products from people. So they would be either done eating, or they know I’m not eating for a meal and they would offer me chicken or cheese I would take it. If it’s a difference of getting my calories for the day and eating leftover chicken, guess what I’m going to do. Not necessarily “dumpster diving,” but definitely eating animal products when they are free.
You need to do what you need to do to survive. End of story. And there should be no shame on your part for doing so. If your malnourished it doesn't help anybody
@@norootsnomad1002 - I agree, especially if you buy in bulk. Dried legumes and all the other items you mentioned are FAR less expensive than meat. A lot of people are not aware that frozen veg are picked when ready, and frozen quickly. In some cases this makes them better nutritionally than fresh ones picked early then sold weeks later. But I also agree with Taylor. She's not talking about BUYING animal products. She's talking about not having money period, and eating what others offer vs going hungry. I don't think that it's an unreasonable thing for a person to do.
@@norootsnomad1002 - yeah but the line she drew was not at poor, but at destitute
@@norootsnomad1002 - We agree that she's freegan. And, I think the whole "privliged" thing goes to far. But if your eating what others have discarded, beggars can't be choosers. Your kinda stuck with the remnants of other people's choices with very little control over what that might be.
@@norootsnomad1002 - I'm not arguing. You are though. People can agree on some areas and not others and not have it be a fight. You and I agree on some key points. But I think that the one not reading carefully is you. Under normal circumstances most people buy at least some food. When you have a place to prepare food, then veganism is far less expensive. But veganism isn't going to be a solution for someone who is homeless and eating out of a dumpster, or relying on the dollar menu at Wendy's as an example. So while I think that privileged is an overused trope these days, I acknowledge that I have far more choices in life because I have a place to prepare my own meals.
Love that you’re talking about this! For the cheese on pizza that you tried to order without cheese: I think you’re right the damage is done but sending it back helps the waiter/waitress realize they have made a mistake. That may be something they remember if another vegan comes through and it won’t happen to that person 😊 hope that makes sense!
The oyster topic is the first time I disagree with you. My personal reasons for not eating them are 1) I just see them as animals and as I was raised vegetarian I would never want to consume something that has to be killed. 2) I think some people denied for a long time that fish feel pain and suffer because they have a different/no central nervous system as well (I might be wrong, that's just how I remember it). Then there has been research to prove that fish can feel stress and pain. My conclusion is: humans don't know everything, just because we don't know how it works why should they not feel pain? My thought about the plants&pain argument is that I just have to eat something too. ;) And eating plants instead of animals that eat plants is avoiding at least some pain. (Fruitarianism is nothing I consider right now.)
Anyways: Thanks for the video and your thoughts. I highly appreciate your videos.
thanks for sharing!!!!what you said makes a lot of sense
Thank goodness I was never a fan of oysters or mollusks or whatever, so they’re safe lol
@Choree’s Channel Giving up the killing of plants for food would mean the death of our favorite animals...us.
Therefore, since eating plants is necessary and eating animals causes the death of more plants, eating only plants minimizes suffering which is the point.
@@jayyyzeee6409 Exactly! People sound ridiculous when they say "Plants feel pain too".
@Suso Wellington Couldn't agree more! 😊
I thought about that oyster topic for a long time... It's the same reason for me why I don't consume them. Don't want to be labled as a non-veg. And I still feel kinda sorry for them even though I know they can't suffer like other animals who have a nervous system.
Greetings from Germany! Love your channel!
im not super educated about oysters, but i just go by taxonomy - the animal kingdom
yes yes yes to all of this. thanks for always being a vegan voice of reason
but like I 100% agree with what you're saying. You're my favourite vegan youtuber just for the fact you are logical, consistent, vegan for the animals and SUPER sweet and well-spoken.
ok I finished watching, and I have definitely experienced the same thing. When I first made the commitment to go vegan there were still a few times when I would nibble on dairy chocolate my parents bought, just because it was there you know? But now I'm really into activism I just can't eat animal products at all, even if they're going to go to waste, because I don't want to be hypocritical even though it might not be directly contributing to animal suffering/exploitation- I guess it's a virtue thing.
Regarding bivalves, here's the thing that I think we as the vegan community need to think about. We get really hooked up on the word "animal," and to be fair, so does everyone. We throw that word around a lot, but that doesn't always mean we're actually using it correctly. Case-and-point how many people use the word animal as if we are somehow not a part of the animal kingdom ourselves. I think we need to remind ourselves about the scientific aspect to it. "Animal" is in reference to the biological kingdom "Animalia" under the domain "Eukaryota" along with "Plantae," "Fungi," and more.
What I think vegans should be concerned with isn't simply what kingdom an organism is from, but rather if that organism is capable of conscious perception. Now, we happen to live on a planet where all forms of sentience and sapience occur in the animal kingdom, but that doesn't actually mean all animals are the same in that regard. In fact, there are a lot of smaller classifications of animals that aren't sentient. Sponges, Cnidarians (Sea Anemones, Sea Jellies, Coral, Sea Fans, etc.), and some Mollusks, a.k.a. our bivalves, are all examples of species that we have no current reason to believe have any capabilities for thoughts and feelings. This quality makes these creates not unlike any other organism from other kingdoms, such as various plants or fungi, when it comes to sentience.
My Point is, trying to hold onto the world "animal" as if that's the term we need to focus on is kind of misleading. Think of it this way: What would happen if we discovered a species of plant that contained either a brain and central nervous system, or set of organs that we learned functioned similarly enough to have at least some confidence in labeling this plant species as sentient? What if that plant was also turned into a delicacy by whatever part of the world they were native to? Would you eat them? It's not an animal after all.
Obviously, that's not really a concern that we need to worry about right now, and unless we suddenly encounter an alien planet bustling with all different life forms, a concern we probably will not ever need to worry about. But this hypothetical does point out the flaw in focusing in on the word "animal" and stopping right there.
Listen, I don't eat bivalves either for a lot of the same reasons that Cheap Lazy Vegan brought up. I've never eaten them, but it's just not a kind of food I've ever been enticed by due to the way its eaten. But, I do bring it up to my friends or with people I meet when we get onto food topics. It's a topic that can be seen as "flexible" for a lifestyle that most people deem "inflexible," which I think can help change the modern perception of veganism to some people.
Ty Bain yess!
I agree!
YES! My thoughts exactly!
OMG this is 100% what I always say to my friends, even the plant with brain/alien argument haha. I come from Spain and mussels and oysters are not super common food, but not as weird as in other regions (like 3-4 times a year). And I see that on the rare occasions I'm confronted to them with family or friends, eating them makes the others engage in deeper conversations where they truly try to understand the reasons of my veganism (ofc, aside from the annoying person being annoying, but those are a lost battle anyway).
But bivalves have ganglia. They have pain receptors which is why they squirm when you cook them. I don't know that they have an awareness of the pain but they can feel it.
hope she reads this! and address it on her 2nd video. it's not that she doesnt care about them, i just think shes not knowledgeable about everything like everyone else! thus she's very open to be corrected. let's enlighten each other without judgment 💕 i dont know much about bivalves either but conversation like this encourages people to research and that's a good thing.
@@PW-yv3sc You do not need to be sentient to feel pain. Science has proved that. It's just a different kind of pain to that with a nervous system.
@I Got You Babe
Plants feel pain too. It's a different kind, so we ignore it, but they do. We choose them over animals because it's less suffering in the grand scheme of things -- but they still suffer. These sea creatures suffer and trying to say it's okay completely defeats the purpose of veganism.
You clearly don't know what stimulants are.
that's the difference between venus fly trap and bivalves, carnivorous plants react to stimuli through electric signals, while oysters actually have nerve cords, there is a reason why venus fly trap is classified as a plant, and not as an animal, which is basically the same reason why bivalves and jellyfish are classified as animals and not as plants @I Got You Babe
From what I remember from a biology class that focused on marine science, thay while bivalves do have ganglia, without a central nervous system there isnt a place for pain to be transmitted to. The professor described it as liquid (pain) traveling through a straw (nerve ending) into the mouth (brain, nervous system). Remove the termination point, and the sensation of pain isnt received. It's kind of hard to really comprehend what that would be like. I'm not saying you should eat them or anything. But even for as a complex being as a human, we don't wait for the brain to tell us to pull our hands out of a flame, it's an automatic reaction handled long before the pain hits the brain.
I feel like with insects... if they attack you like a mosquito or invade your house like a cockroach it can affect your health, so I don't feel morally wrong about killing them. I put spiders outside tho , and I love moths, butterflies, bees, and other insects.
I'm terrified of moths, i don't kill them but not out of compassion but because i'm scared they'll murder me in my sleep and take over the world
@@liviestar365 But moths are like fuzzy butterflies! ❤ I love moths 🙂
I kill them all. Oh my gosh. No no no. Outside, they can do as they wish...in by house, you are now an intruder
@@bellabambina1184 That's bad.
Em S spiders get shooed out and the bugs with lots of legs can stay. They eat the small bugs. Ants can go and bed bugs can go. I’m just lucky I wasn’t one who’s ever had an infestation. Be lucky you’re privileged enough not to either. I bet you’d kill them then.
I agree about the oysters. Also, thank you for always being so rational!
*Edit: After watching the entire video, I actually agree with everything that you said about each topic.
Danielle Johnson I don't know if you where aware of this, so I thought id share. ☺ when oysters, muscels and other Bivalves are caught, other animals like fish, birds etc can get caught in the nets and die along with them. as is the case with large scale fishing. that would be the ethical arguement for it. again just wanted to share ☺ we also thought fish didnt feel pain at one point, so why take the risk?
If other beings getting killed along with things that dont have feelings by default is the argument, would it be the same argument for the plants that get sprayed and bugs dying. I dont eat oysters or anything and im vegan im juat curious what you think of this?
voguecas no. 1) they may be able to feel. for a long time we thought fish werent able to feel pain. we where wrong. 2) the ocean is dying and its predicted that there will be no fish by 2050. (you can look this up on Google for more info) 3) thw biggest thing is......we dont need to. it indirectly causes unessesary suffering. fruits and veggies are something we need. being vegan is about reducing harm as much as possible. eating animals we dont need to eat, that may suffer after all on top of the bycatch, when we can easily eat other things, doesn't follow the definition of what being vegan means. ☺ life saving medicine is vegan. fruits and veggies are vegan. Bivalves are not. I hope this makes sense. ❤
Seriously needed this video. I went vegetarian when I was 13 ( I’m 31 now) I went vegan a few years ago and mid March I had my daughter who was born early at 34 weeks, this being first pregnancy was already a adjustment but in December I started having major health issues and I started eating meat and dairy again because I couldn’t keep food down and my doctors were worried about our health and I hated myself so much I felt like such a Hypocrite because I was doing the very thing I had fought against for years but the amount of hate I had for myself was nothing compared to my fellow vegan pregnant mamas or vegans who don’t have kids and have never had to make that choice. Now that she’s born I got the go ahead to slowly transition back to veganism I just wish that all my fellow vegans were a little more kinder and less judgmental towards each other this is why some ppl never go vegan because if your not perfect the vegan police will belittle your efforts . Anyway love the video keep being awesome Rose💚
I agree with everything you said in this video! I view food waste as a huge problem so if it can be minimized with dumpster diving then I'm all for it👍 for the next video I would love for you to talk about honey! I feel like honey is also a grey area to many vegans.
i was waiting for the honey talk as well.
Honey I think is the most grey of the grey areas as I know that the more bee hives there are the more bees there are and bees are critical for our survival. I don't know about other places but in Australia the hives are almost always in secluded places where the bees have access to flowering trees, they're free to come and go, and the apiarists love them. I actually don't eat honey but tbh, it wouldn't worry me to do so.
My view on honey personally is that it’s become more ethical, though I don’t know all the facts. Besides beekeepers being kinder/more ethical, I want to support the existence of bees through buying honey. It’s honestly sad that one reason bees aren’t dying out quite as quickly as they could is because we spend money on them, but here we are
Yes to the honey thing! I've (basically) always been in support of using honey because we have created a safer environment for bees in decline, and honey is a source of potassium and is a good sugar to consume. I think as long as you research brands of honey to make sure they're ethically sourced (I like local honeys for this) it is a-okay for me, personally. Everyone can make their own decisions though because at the end of the day, it is an animal product.
Just knowing that honey is regurgitated bee vomit is enough to make me not want to eat it. I am not too familiar about the whole process of honey and the bees' relationship with it, but it does not seem ethical to use bees in that way for consumption. I think bees should be protected for our survival and the food supply, but buying and eating honey does not seem like that would accomplish that to me.
I refused to eat a soup at a restaurant because it had animal products....beef and was pressured by my father-in-law to “eat it because the cow’s already dead” . I just couldn’t see it as anything other than a bowl of pain, suffering and death. I didn’t want that to become part of me and so I didn’t eat it. I have picked off cheese before too so I get this grey area. I have a grey area for honey too. From what I’ve seen bees aren’t harmed but it does seem like a really rude thing to do so I avoid it.
Do you consume palm products? Coconut?
ugh I hate how honey's hidden in so many products. It's in so many whole wheat breads, saw honey in tortilla chips and almond milk before. I'll be honest I've gotten bread before and didn't notice the honey in the ingredients (I saw molasses and sugar and assumed there wouldn't be honey) after having the bread a few times I noticed honey in the ingredients. So easy to find milk and eggs thanks to the allergy but not bee vomit
tanyauyeda this sheds some more light on honey ruclips.net/video/E0N8UYgMGDQ/видео.html
I agree, and also where does it stop, because technically the animals that we see in stores are already dead but a vegan wouldn’t buy that.
I don't want to eat animals for ethical reasons, but more importantly because I am disgusted by them. I don't see them as any different than eating a dog. Any animal would be repulsive for me to eat.
Is it "vegan" I would probably say no, but is it wrong probably not.
I'm so glad that another vegan (esp one with a platform) feels this way about oysters (and other bivalves)
I love the your rational standpoint on these issues, I talk about the grey areas with non-vegans all the time. I actually think it helps to make veganism seem more credible to those people who see it as a fad or "extreme". It makes them question why some choices are more ethical than others, and helps them connect the dots between the choices they make and the impact they have.
The reason I feel like some of these things are not vegan is because I feel that it is disrespectful to eat the corpse of a murder victim, whether it was going to be “wasted” or not. I think it would be unethical to eat someone’s dead pet cat companion for the same reason, if that makes sense. I feel the same way about pre-vegan makeup, leather and fur.
As far as bivalves, I just find it highly unlikely that they are the only animal that isn’t sentient. It just doesn’t make sense to me personally. There is a lot that we don’t know, so for this issue I prefer to err on the side of caution.
Another issue I see is that when we do something like eat an animal product that someone didn’t finish, we are saying we think eating an animal product is okay on some level, which can lead to justifications on the other party’s part and diminish the movement.
I’m really glad you brought these up for discussion and I completely get where you’re coming from. Just wanted to share my opinions on these things and I hope my explanations are helpful to someone struggling with answers to these questions.
I agree with you about feeling disrespectful. I don't agree with you about bivalves. If I get served something with vegetarian animal products I do my best to pick it off, otherwise I send it back x
They are not the only animals that are not considered sentient, simply the only animals westerners eat regularly that are not. Sponges, also classified in the animal kingdom, are not considered sentient.
Holly Mantooth I actually avoid buying sponges as well for the same reason, as well as shells. I’m not gonna pretend like I know everything about this topic but like I said, I prefer to err on the side of caution because it is just so easy for me to avoid these products.
Do you consume palm products?
I completely agree with everything you said, BUT it's to "err" (not air) on the side of caution! Sorry for being that person :)
I once went with my father to catch some bivalves (don't remember the exact type) in the river, and one of them had like the little tongue out, and I touched it and it went inside and that was sooo cute. I felt so bad eating them afterwards and could never eat them again, and that was before I stopped eating eggs and dairy.
I agree, even thou I think I wouldn't eat non-vegan food. One thing I would do is if I had (I don't think I have) real leather clothing from before I went vegan I would still be using it until it was worn out.
But yeah, it's just impossible to be 100% vegan 100% of the time, and from the definition of veganism which is to exclude the exploitation and cruelty "as far as is possible and practicable", we need to be gentle to ourselves and think we did the best we could if something was not avoidable, instead of thinking "I screwed it so f*ck it" and going 180 degrees back to eating all animal products lifestyle.
I recently had a little flip out when I discovered that my favourite veg gyoza were made with oyster sauce and then I went through your logic re bivalves. Still not going to buy them again but not being hard on myself for eating them before.
I totally agree with everything you've talked about. But also very rarely talk to my fellow vegan friends about them, because oh boy that stigma of not being "the perfect vegan" is REAL
Awesome video! Veganism is largely about ethics, that being said ethics are by definition a subjective and very personal subject. For my part I went vegan to reduce my carbon footprint , avoiding animal cruelty is just an awesome byproduct. Although I’m usually very strict about my vegan diet, I am about to open up a vegan bakery here in Mexico City I try to taste bread from every bakery I can find. So I guess I’m getting a regular dose of Butter and eggs(yuk). Why? Simply to not just aproximate, but improve the taste of my product over their traditional counterpart. Is that immoral? Nah!
Honestly, let’s avoid judging each other and strive for a more supportive and cohesive community. There’s plenty of challenges in this lifestyle as it is.
BTW, thanks for turning me on to tofu. It’s an awesome thing.
💕 hope all will be well for your bakery! and as long as you don't have health issues with butter and egg, yes i agree! if it means to make nonveg people see and taste that we can make great delicious food without the animal cruelty, your way is going to have a long term good effect on the veganism movement and community 💕
and yes, just don't judge each other. whether or not people who knows you're vegan see you and judges you right away and not give you space to explain just let them be. people have a lot to say like always. just as long as you know your whys and has good intentions, then go continue 😊
I think that is a great reason to eat those things! Good luck with your bakery!!!
Munir Hamdan, That's a very interesting and compelling argument! In some way, you're actually making a personal sacrifice by sampling non-vegan food for a greater good. I'm still somewhat torn because animals are also being sacrificed in the process without consent. It's like the gastronomical version of the "Trolley Problem".
I've thought about this before and this is definitely a grey area.
Interesting point. Although it reminds me about the argument of the impossible burger being tested on animals not making it vegan anymore. I personally think the sacrifice was justified because it yielded a better product that could promt more people to try vegan alternatives, but many dont hold the same sentiment.
Great video just wanted to add to the pizza dilemma .... I think sending it back gets it in the restaurant workers heads that the dish is not vegan and that vegans are serious and they need to add options, but it’s so minute of a driver that I think also that all of the mentioned possible are ethical... love the green hair
We (or at least I) don't always make the reason why we won't eat certain things clear. But when you work with food, you must be extra responsible, extra aware of what is asked, of what you put in the plate. It could be an allergy, for example, restaurants must be aware of that kind of mistake.
I agree about sending it back to show that there is a demand for vegan options, so maybe they will start to produce more.
Personally with bivalves I just don’t think it’s right to kill an animal even if they don’t know what’s necessarily happening. Idk it’s definitely a tricky discussion because I mean I guess you could argue the same about plants but I just don’t feel it’s right ethically. I don’t know it just doesn’t feel right to me, and I feel bad for them:( Environmentally they’re extremely overfished and because they’re so important in filtering water the lack of oysters is contributing to water pollution. No hate just in case it somehow came across that way:) lol I worry because it’s so hard to see tone in text😂
GREAT POINT!! THANKS. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER ANIMALS THAT GET TRAPPED INSIDE THE FISHING NETS? FISHING IS SAD
Agree that there is environmental impact involved in eating seafood/bivalves
What about palm products?
@@babykitty7052 you comment the same thing in every other comment and i liked it. Please continue to do so even if it's considered spam. I knew about palm products years ago but i recently saw footage of it.... It was so devastating... :(
I don't eat them either, seems nasty and I wouldn't judge a vegan who decided to eat them either. I'd still consider them an Ethical Vegan.
I think sending the plate back teaches the staff what vegan means so they are less likely to make the same mistake again
And shows there is a demand for vegan options.
It's hard to agree with that "eat it cause damage is done". I would take it home and give someone who is non vegan or just return the plate. That is your right and you shouldn't be feeling shy about telling them. Someone could be allergic to something, does that justify their mistake? Of course not. I understand where you're coming from, but still this part confuses me.
The consumption aspect of all of these topics (oysters, insects, freeganism, etc) is the main reason I am going plant-based/vegan. Supply and demand is powerful and the way we use our dollar is huge!
Talk about second hand leather , wool , animal products. Cruelty free , sustainable goods
Solar Skyy yes! I was waiting for this topic!
Barbour and belstaff are companies that make and sell waxed cotton products that are stronger than leather and water resistant they are a good alternative but they are expensive
I really get what you mean with the whole “damage has already been done” thing. I still wear my leather shoes that I got before I was vegan and I still buy wool jumpers if they’re second hand. It doesn’t matter if others say I’m not vegan because of this because veganism should just be all about your personal views and ethics
If I knew a vegan who ate oysters for health I wouldn't judge them it seems more ethical than eating meat, dairy or eggs.
Same
I don't know if you are aware, but when bivalves are caught, there is Bicatch along with it. other animals get killed along with them. the ocean needs oysters to clean the waters, and our oceans are polluted enough. those would be the ethical reasons to not eat Bivalves. just passing the information along ☺
@@mayganphynix8267 Yea there's bycatch if you're eating WILD oysters.
Farmed oysters are going to have their populations upheld for cleaning waters.
@@frankchen4229 good point. there's also the Mercury concern though and apparently they have nerve ganglia to feel pain. so I still avoid just in case.
I like multiple things about you Rose, but what I love the most is your critical thinking. I think most people don't take the time to think by themselves and question their beliefs. You always bring good points to the table and ALWAYS from a very "human" point of view. Discussions on those topics are important and you use your platform very well to stimulate the conversation.
I have shucked plenty of raw oysters (pre vegan days) and they fight to be not opened. They have a survival instinct.
But plants have that to, Like producing smell or Fluid so animals dont war them
@@saraholschewski5331 well said. They also produce oxalates which cause inflammation in humans because plants can't run away!
So do plants I once ate a small leaf. Felt like I had tiny glass needles in my throat. Never again
That’s true
So agree with you on every single thing you said!
This is why I’m not putting any labels on myself. Even though I eat a fully plant based diet no matter circumstances (I can’t tolerate meat or dairy so I have no problem sending food back otherwise it’s bad for my health, or I give it to people I went out with) and buy ethical and vegan makeup, skincare and cleaning solutions, not everything in my house is vegan. My couch is filled with duck feathers, I have some wool items, but I can’t afford to give them away and buy new ones, I’ll wear them until they fall apart. Those are items that were bought before I learnt about the ethical aspect of them so I feel like it’s better to make the sacrifice worth it instead of making more waste and spending money and buy replacements immediately. However this might not be “vegan enough” for some because people do tend to have only black and white perception of labels. For me it’s important to contribute to ethical businesses and support my values with my purchases but at the same time evaluate the environmental impact of my actions to avoid unnecessary waste.
♻️🌱🐰
I personally don't eat bivalves because of the ick factor, and because they're considered animals and I don't eat animal products as a vegan. I'm also conscious of the health and environmental effects, for instance the increasing risk of "red tide" contamination in marine-raised bivalves. Also, except for a couple exceptions, I never liked seafood anyway - the fishy taste was/is disgusting.
Honestly, I don't think I could ever eat another animal product knowingly, whether "freegan", insect, other people's leftovers, or accidental contamination. It's too gross to me, and they'd affect my health anyway.
There's also the problem of moderation (inline with what you referred to as "slippery slope"), where if I let myself have an animal product in one instance, what stops me from consuming it in other situations? I have low willpower in ambiguous circumstances, as in: if I say I can have "a few cookies" I'm just as likely to eat all of them. If I were to say I'd eat "some animals, in some circumstances", I don't know if I'd stop there, and I'd rather not find out.
that's very good for you. self-control and "abstinence". i admire that. avoiding to"test the waters." but it's also really good that she posted it. i have been reading many nonveg people commenting Rose encourages them that they can and will consider veganism. i think shedding the light in this conversation is great in a vegan community where lots of vegans are very "militant" because of their passion which isn't really encouraging but condemning. and we cant encourage people to take the switch if they feel condemned/shamed. really love this video of hers!
It’s so refreshing to hear another fellow vegan talk about these situations! I’ve been in pretty much all the situations you mentioned (besides the oyster one) and I never felt it was wrong because from an ethical stand point the damage was already done anyways and I’d rather finish someone’s plate than have it be thrown away (except for meat and fish which I can’t eat, to me eggs and dairy are different than meat and fish even though they both cause harm). Thank you!!
Freeganism is def ethical, I'm all about it, it's just a bit gross cos eating animals is gross
Also possibly unhygienic
I agree, animal products would be the last thing I would ever want to eat out of a dumpster! Even in the cooler or cold months!
I watched an interesting video about dumpster divers. With experience, they’re quite intelligent on knowing what’s good and bad.
With proper cooking, even disposed meat can not cause health issues. Just all depends how long it’s been out there and the temperature. Obviously 2 days old meat in 90 degree weather may not be good lol
I'm all for freeganism as long as it definitely doesn't increase demand. If you work with food at your job and animal products are about to go to waste then I don't see why you couldn't take it home with you. Personally I wouldn't be able to stomach meat but I would never tell a vegan that they're not really vegan for eating meat that's going to be wasted. When I was a barista at a patisserie and ate the croissants that were about to be trashed it didn't make me suddenly "see animal products as food" it just prevented that food from going on the trash.
Constant Disappointment i agree, I definately wouldn’t eat it but contributing demand is a huge thing for me so if it doesn’t contribute then I think it’s ok
Freeganism is not veganism. Just because the animal was already killed doesn't fix the fact that it was killed. I still see it as wrong to eat, like eating a dog. But with that said, I would not shame someone for freeganism. I just think it is disgusting.
Insects, yes hmmm fire ants?? Kill. Honey Bee... love and cherish. Definitely a gray insect area for me...
I've been bitten by a fire ant. I'm with you, girl! Lol!
I apologize but i dont agree, i respect your opinion though
@Anna R when I lived in Texas I tried every noninvasive way I possibly could to discourage fire ants from invading my home and attacking me while I was minding my own business doing the dishes. *Nothing worked.* So, yes, death to fire ants.
Mosquitoes... KILL
I am on a Daniel fast and it is a vegan diet. I have been watching your channel to get through it. It is awesome and I feel great! I will have to plan ahead to make it a permanent life style. I will see what I am called to do after Passover.
Wow, that's so cool! I never heard of a Daniel fast before.
It is a 21 day fast that the prophet Daniel used in the Bible. There are books out to help you get through fasting and praying. I am doing a 40 day fast. Fasting and praying was very common in the Bible. Blessings.
very cool! I have 2 resouces I suggest you look into: 1) www.Challenge22.com gives you a Mentor, recipes&advice and you can also talk to a registered dietician for free!! 2) have you heard of the Happy Cow App? it tells you what restaurants to eat at for good Vegan food, with reviews. I hope this helps! thank you for showing compassion to animals. ❤🐾
I went vegan after a Daniel fast. It wasn’t what I was fasting for, but a happy result! Good luck to you! Start off slow and don’t get discouraged if you slip up, just keep working at it.
I could listen to you talk FOREVER! You may go off on tangents but they are relevant and entertaining. You tend to back up your arguments very well and in general have solid arguments. I love these longer videos!
I love dumpster diving in general! Freeganism sounds good in theory like you explained it, but it still reinforces the idea that animal's bodies are something to eat, and that is a paradigm we need to change if we want to see a vegan world. But dumpster diving does seem like a great option to feed rescued animals (like cats) that need to eat meat
Thank you SO much for this video. As a new person transitioning into the lifestyle I had a large struggle dealing with how rigid and judgmental the community can be, especially when I got the feeling that ‘black and white’ viewpoints had to do with keeping up appearances more than anything.
It made me feel like I couldn’t live up. It’s nice to hear discussion and questioning the how and why without a mind set of ‘no...wrong....cant’ for no other reason than the fact that people will take away your vegan card.
Life is a spectrum at the end of the day.
Yessss! All these ex vegans should eat mussels instead of fish
100% agree with basically everything you're saying in this video. Feel like you and unnatural vegan are both really balanced and thoughtful in your approach, I find myself reasoning in the same ways so it's nice to hear this from other vegans :)
Hey girl! Looking flawless! My reply on the topic would be so long but to keep it short I agree with your views and it's a very good topic to bring up and discuss. Thank you for helping me along on this new vegan life I'm living.
HI!!! Thanks for the video! I don't eat all sea life because of the environmental implications! Animal welfare factor is still there, but clams are being over harvested at aggressive rates!! Clams/Oysters are SOOOO good for ocean ecosystems! I live in Virginia and oysters have a HUGE potential to filter pollutants and they're so good at it!! Leave the sea creatures alone because we already do enough with dumping into the ocean
Yo just what to share this story regarding bivalves (I wasn't vegan at that time but it was a turning point which made me consider to go vegan) When I was teenager, my mom's office friends decided to do a beach outing. Before heading to the beach, we prepped the food in one of her friend's house that lives near the beach. So the food was an all out BBQ of seafood and meat. And goat meat stewed in tomato sauce. This dish was my all time fave. Until they brought out the goat. A live goat. Which they killed and skinned in the back kitchen. It didn't cry out loud but it trashed around before it died. Then I looked at the eyes and it was crying. I watched the whole thing- idk so I can prove I have the guts or I am strong-willed or whatever. No. I felt sorry for the goat. I was part of its suffering because I wanted to its meat for my satisfaction. I didn't touched or went near the stew or ate the meat that was being served when we were at the beach. So here comes the bivalves, the locals were selling them so I decided to cook and eat them. Long story short, I had the bad case of diarrhea for 2 days. Never ate goat or bivalves again. After trying for 5yrs, I am already 4months in being vegan. All of my ethical dilemmas consuming animal products from all those years were resolved 🌱
😭🐐 Lamb was one of the last things I had before I want vegan 🐑 I was vegetarian, but I had never tasted it before. My family had cooked it, and I just tried a piece.
Fabulous mature discussion. Also enjoyed the very good other comments. What I noticed was the waste argument, and how waste also appears as a justification in disordered eating. A physically unwell person (e.g. just had a heart attack) might persist in eating an animal food that could kill them, because of not wanting to waste it. So waste might not be good argument in that case. And as food all goes back into the earth, it will still enrich the earth anyway, so the vegan does not have to process that animal food through their body to prevent waste. Maybe we need to think seriously about whether the waste from that place will be composted, and put plenty of effort into preventing animal 'food' from being produced in the first place.
i always send food back that has animal products on it. no matter what the situation is.
What about palm products?
@@babykitty7052 always 🌻
But isnt that a huge waste? I like to bring mine home for a friend or family member who eats animal products
@@liltiiiff Then the animal died for no reason....
Love the people in these comments who have no idea how many animal lives a commercial kitchen "wastes" as a matter of course. A vegan sending her pasta back because the house put cheese on it is the least of these problems. No other eater would be expected to submit to eating food they can't have because of sacrifices made to create it.
I really enjoyed this video. I am still working to be 100% vegan and am always so fearful of mean people who will yell. Sometimes things happen by accident (like the cheese on salad thing) and I don’t want to waste it so I’ll eat a small amount.
I never had oysters in my life, went vegan over 6 years ago. I still have some clothes, belts, shoes that are not vegan but I've had them before going vegan; the damage is already done so I just keep them though most of the things I don't wear bc I feel guilty knowing what I know now.
I can’t thank u enough for continuing to educate me. I’m vegan but have not heard of such terms. ( freeganism) I’m very hard on myself as a vegan but we r human- I’ve had slips too. I will always love & respect you
That hair color on you 🙌🏽 wow. Beautiful
I really appreciate your willingness to go into the grey areas, Rose. It means a lot to me because I've never been 100% vegan. There's just so much nuance and so many reasons why I've eaten meat and dairy at times over the years I've considered myself vegan.
A big thing for me is traditional foods from my home culture. When I visit my grandmother and she cooks for me, it's a very special tradition to us. She does a lot to make a vegan option for me, but it's not perfect. Sometimes there's cheese in there and some times I eat the traditional food with meat or cheese. I think for me, focusing on the 90% of my diet that is vegan is important. Instead of berating myself for the occasional meat or dairy.
And when I talk to friends who want to go vegan, they tell me that they couldn't give up one thing (chicken bullion, eggs, etc.). So I encourage them to add lots of vegetables into their diet and see how they feel, but not to force themselves to never again have chicken bullion again if they love it. Ultimately, coming from a place of compassion and understanding, people have told me makes my lifestyle seem relate able, and like veganism is something they can try too.
I think that's overall good for the movement to have more people eating more of a vegan diet. Rather than insisting on purity/perfection. And exclusion if you can't meet that ideal.
I've been feeling really down and confused about the vegan community lately. This discussion in comments was just what I needed 💜
When she said consistency I thought she meant the consistency of the oyster like the texture of it
I really appreciate your honesty in this video! I think the more we openly discuss these grey areas the more we can all be a little more understanding when it comes to things like dietary habits, which makes vegans seem a lot more sympathetic to non-vegans who maybe have this idea that veganism is this militant, all-or-nothing lifestyle. I also think a black and white mindset is unhelpful in this situation, not only because you're maybe restricting yourself unnecessarily, but also because it contributes to this idea that veganism is something you can 'fail' at, which I feel pushes people away from it. As a long time veggie and recent vegan my advice to people who 'slip up', make questionable decisions or feel guilty is, forgive yourself and carry on! If you gave into a craving one time, tried a friend's food, or accidentally ate meat or cheese or whatever, it doesn't mean you've blown your one chance at being vegan. It's still a net movement in a positive direction imo. Really looking forward to part 2!
Before anything, can we just talk about your makeup? 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I completely agree with you, Rose! And it's your very rational arguments that led me to veganism in the first place. The oyster thing I never really thought about, but I think like you said, as long as you're feeling fine without eating them, just don't. And I have eaten "accidentally" non-vegan foods before, precisely because I didn't want it to go to waste and because the damage was already done. Same reason I still buy leather products (like shoes) secondhand (in charity shops) . I don't see myself contributing to the industry by doing that. But I think its also a very personal standpoint. Haven't done the picking at a friend's leftover yet, but I get what you're saying. Veganism as a whole isn't that hard for me, but I think someone who's struggling to stay off animal products has to be more careful I guess... It's all a very individual thing and I love that you're constantly encouraging people to have other opinions. We just all need to be more respectful of each other 💚
Militant crazy vegan lady with bananas is coming after you xD anyway, great video, you are very rational and good voice for vegans on internet.
lmaoooo
There is a part of me that wants to find the video to see what she says but there's that other part that feels like I don't want to give her the views.
I tried freeganism 3 weeks into me be plant based, I ate left over meat rissoles my mother in law made because I didn’t want to waste food, it would go bad if I didn’t eat it and end up in landfill since I can’t compost it. So I did it reluctantly. I felt so sick about it,mentally, I was grossed out that I ate a dead baby lamb, then I had a stomach ache because my body wasn’t used to it. Then I also didn’t want to get my tastebuds used to eating animals again, so for those reasons I stopped and never ate meat ever again.... except for when it was an accident...
Wow, so much respect for you for openly addressing these topics! I agreed with 100% of what you said!
I think because of the fact that I don’t view animal products as food, I wouldn’t even consider ever putting them in my body, just because “the damage has already been done”. So, I would return it probably, or pick off the animal product depending on the meal.
On top of that, I’m quite spiritual and believe that everything is connected, so when you consume something that lived a life of misery and was brutally killed, you’re not only supporting that institution, but you’re also digesting that energy and in a way it becomes a part of you. I know it sounds extreme, but I only want to consume things I know don’t cause pain and suffering, negatively impact the environment, or my own health. However, I would understand if someone felt it was ok to consume the animal product in that situation because they didn’t want to create more waste.
I love your videos! 💛
Great video! I love how reasonable thoughtful you are, but I feel the need to mention that the "slippery slope" argument is a logical fallacy. There is no research/data to support the theory that taking a minor action will lead to major and sometimes ludicrous consequences. Otherwise excellent! 💕
Are oysters vegan? Clear cut Truth by Gary Yourousky: ruclips.net/video/Peb_Ad7gtgA/видео.html
Thank you so much for opening up this discussion. I’ve debated on going vegan for a very long time, but the black and white stances, the “you should eat this and not this,” has always thrown me off from making the full switch because I don’t want to do it “wrong” or “bad.” Hearing you talk about mistakes and moving forward and the issues of these topics make me feel better and more confident in moving towards full veganism
Does anyone here eat a veaga diet MAINLY for the health benifits. The animal thing is a plus but thats not my main concern on why I became vegan.
i am mainly for the animals, but health wise is a big part as well, because i ate animal products DAILY.
@@liltiiiff Thats awesome. I ate alot of animal products multiple times a day aswell. Its funny that you are sorta the opposite of my situation but in a good way.
I am veagan mainly for health and the animal stuff is a bonus while you do it for the animals and the hallth stuff is a bonus.
Steve Danger this is a great point! I love it because it cuts through all the ideology and gets straight to the point.
I understand caring for animals, but first and foremost, we need to eat to survive.. Therefore, HEALTH should be our main concern imo 💖✌😀
You can consume a healthy diet eating omnivore. There are also many ways to eat terrible vegan diets: full of sweets, processed foods, or deficient in nutrients. Veganism isnt about health lol. Its about ethics
@@Neverseenstars i agree 100% with you. I geuss i should correct myself as I eat a Whole Food Plant-Based diet. But its much easier to say veagan but i geuss the ethics part might make people view me in a certain way.
I love that you’re so open about these topics and actually see gray areas 💕💕
If someone gives me something that isn’t vegan by mistake I have my boyfriend eat it 🤷🏻♀️ I don’t want it to go to waste!
Lilia Burdett lmao idk why this made me laugh
Concerning freeganism:
With many foodsharing communities around me, I think I would be able to redistribute the "saved" animal products to people around me (foodsharing-fairteiler, friends, family).
I know lots of vegans who are active in foodsharing and still don't eat the animal products but give them to other people :) But generally, I woudn't judge vegans who eat animal products that would have otherwise been trashed
Intresting subject heard mushrooms had them but vegans still eat & love mushrooms but would like to see some more cooking vegan foods trying my best to not eat meats...
Mushrooms are unusual even in the plant family. Fungi predate green plants and are not as evolved. Mushrooms are less likely than plants to react to stimuli
You are one of those wonderful friends who finish their friends dishes when they leave over foods at restaurants. As an axious person I love you so much.
I think eating peoples leftovers is COMPLETELY fine 🙄 The only reason I might choose not to honestly
is the thought that others might question me... ugh what even is vegan?
this is such a great idea. I really appreciate you opening dialogue and unlike a lot of health you tubers you make sure you know what you're talking about it.
You make so much science...i mean sense :)
Great discussion! I don’t eat oysters because I am not too sure whether they are sentient, and would rather by more cautious about it, and it helps that I don’t like eating them anyway. However, I am not worried about people being vegan in every way except for these grey areas.
I just dont enjoy seafood. Its got a weird texture
Thank you for this video. I really think this quest for purity in veganism is what puts off a lot of people. Because when you think you will never do enough, some people don’t even try. Although you might do your best, no one is perfect and there also should be a reasonable choice between what’s ethical for the animals and what’s good for the whole planet. For example, there’s a French vegan RUclipsr who explained once she pondered and finally decided to use beeswax coated fabric to cover plates and stuff because it was more sustainable and ecological than using plastic wrappers. Anyways, I like you even more now.
omg your dying fly impression i can't
As a new Vegan (1 month) after 30 years of consuming animal products, I REALLY appreciate this video and hearing your views on these topics I have pondered. I am currently travelling Australia in a van ans was recently in a tiny country town and ordered a VERY basic vegan sandwich.... it came to me with bread, butter, lettuce, tomato, ham, carrot and onion. I returned it and the woman bluntly said, "I don't know what vegan is". I explained it to her. She nodded and sent me a plate with lettuce and tomato. She was peeved! I sent it back and she demanded I pay for the first sandwich 🙈
Non-militant Vegans are my favourite Vegans. Loving your content x
This is why you're one of my favourite vegan youtubers!! you talk very realistically about veganism rather than a lot of vegans that are all or nothing ie. if it's not a plant or fungi then it's not up for discussion at all, which I don't think she be the case!
I own pet snails and shrimp and I cant eat them same with any bugs tho my grey area is honey. I do find ethically harvested honey to be ok so farmer plants bee plants and keeps hive healthy ect. (specially now when honey bee extinction is a thing)
I consider myself vegetarian because I don't have issues with honey or eggs - we have two female ducks that lay eggs and the eggs are infertile and would do nobody any good anyway, why waste them? We also have chickens and do have a rooster, but unless a chicken is sitting on the eggs they lure predators and/or rot. I definitely don't want to hurt animals, I love them. Honestly, I hate labels in general because a lot of times there are minor exceptions anyway. I do what I can to be a good person, can't that be enough?
Liivi Tantaal eating honey is not a vegan grey area because the official definition of veganism is avoiding all animal expoiltion and animal based products where practical this includes honey so official you are not vegan but rather are on a plant based diet so people that eat honey shouldn't be calling themselves vegan. I also don't agree with your reasons for consuming honey because I believe that honey consumption is contributing to the honey bee's extinction along with householder's not having enough pollinating plants in their gardens.
@@davidthescottishvegan well then im not a vegan honestly no one really cares if im vegan or not . I do get the point of people claiming to be vegan and then eating fish and what ever do be annoying and counter productive specially when those people are influencers. And also why it is grey area honey i mean. I have made also mistakes with cosmetics and ive used them up still but never bought again. I have mainly been plant based over 10 years so mistakes happen and the mindset all or nothing is bad in veganism its scaring people away tho ethically i do get it.
20:45 - This, in essence, is why I still say I am Vegetarian, and not Vegan. I have, and likely would eat a slice of cake at a birthday party (not usually though), or maybe have a glass of eggnog during Christmas. I don't care about being SUPER strict...
23:35 - I agree, and love you :)
Bivalves- I view all animals and their products, which includes honey and bivalves, as not mine to use. Plus the way the ocean is polluted and bivalves literally act as filters, I would assume that they are full of whatever grossness there is around them. Lastly, eating them because we have decided they are not in the same category as cows and pigs makes me think of three things:
1. that people will use that as a "see told you no one can live off or be happy with just eating a plant based diet". It makes it seem like even vegans cannot resist not eating something that is considered "meat" or an animal product.
2. is this not similar to people who love their dogs, but think nothing of pigs and cows. As a vegan, I understand that all these animals are sentient, but meat eaters do not or do not care. I feel this would just be another thing they would throw in our faces as a dumbass blast at veganism...like "plants have feelings...you are not vegan if you rescue animals...vegans are so desperate for meat they will eat the creepiest seafood out there".
3. not long ago there was a general consensus that fish did not have feelings/feel pain, but now they have found that to not be true. To me, it is just not worth the chance that they might be wrong about the pain. I look at it as how I think of people that actually say "well animals do not really feel pain like humans do....the animal does not know what "life" is so they do not understand losing it" and so many other stupid things.
Picking animal products off-if this happens it means that I am at a vegan friendly not vegan place, which means that there are probably non vegans with me. So what I would do, and have done, is request a new dinner made correctly, BUT ask what they will do with the food. If they are going to throw it away, I state that I want them to pack it up for one of my non vegan friend or family members. But I will not pay for it, because that is their mistake and they were going to throw it away.
Finishing someone's non vegan food- I would not do this because it would feel like I was going against my moral compass, and I feel that this confuses the non vegans the same as " i am vegan, but i still eat fish on fridays and a steak on my birthday" I understand what you are saying regarding the waste, but what happens to their waste if you weren't there? What if it was meat? Would you eat it if it wasn't something you liked even if it was going to waste? I do not know, I just think it can be a very slippery slope like you said.
Freeganism- i am all about dumpster diving because the food waste is ridiculous. Have you seen the documentary "dive"? However, I would only take the vegan items, but if I find animal products that were safe and still cold (meat, etc) or non damaged dry goods I would donate those to homeless shelters if they would take them or give them to homeless if they could use them.
I agree, there are gray areas, but I think they are not as gray if you just have your own line you will not cross...everyone's line will be different of course! My line is I just do not and will not eat animal products or exploit animals in anyway. So it is not a dilemma if someone made me something that is not vegan; I get a meal that is not vegan; vague animal products; etc. I always handle the situations with empathy, compassion, and gratitude, but I never knowingly cross the line I have made for myself.
This was one of the best vegan discussions I've seen in a long time. I think it can especially help newer vegans navigate situations they'll eventually encounter. Well done!