The reporter at the end, "Jane," is the same reporter we saw as the main ISN anchor from Season 1 up through "Severed Dreams" in Season 3. Meaning she was imprisoned and tortured for the past year-and-a-half, and her compatriots, like the reporter, "Rick," who cut in during "Severed Dreams," and other major reporters we saw before martial law, but then never again afterwards, like Cynthia Torqueman and Mary Ann Cramer, are most-likely in a very bad state, or dead. The actress _really_ sells what she's been through in that first scene back.
@@simongiles9749I don't know about Torqueman in that regard and I would bet, unlike today, many of the reporters at ISN sold the line not because they bought into it but they didn't want to be arrested. That was probably the only tidbit of truth sold to Sheridan in that episode earlier this season, just that particular reporter did buy into it.
You must remember that Joe was told that the planned 5th season wouldn't happen, so he wrapped up the show at the end of the 4th. _Then_ the suits okayed the 5th season so he had to add a whole new tranche of story. The *amazing* last episode was actually filmed for the end of season 4, but it's set in the future so worked at the end of season 5.
Re: Using the Telepaths - As Franklin said it's 30 lives against 30,000, they may have been victims of the shadows, but the cold calculation works out as "ethical". As Sheridan's old commander - he wasn't part of it, he was just lucky enough to have figured out the telepath sabotage & get to Earth in time to help; as he wasn't a Clarke fanatic so with Clarke gone it wasn't a problem for him to recognise the true threat & help when he arrived.
With the Apollo captain, my take is that he heard the call come out from the senator and took that to be a legitimate command along the proper chain of command. He never shifted his loyalty, it was just the person at the end of the chain was different. Had to say, I loved that you spent so much at the start grieving for Ivanova knowing what Marcus was going to do. That moment Lennier said usable and your hope came back...
I don't think that's quite it, a senator has no position in the chain of command. General Lefcourt just believes that it's not the place of the military to usurp the democratically elected government... but that doesn't extend to wiping out millions of innocent lives.
It's stated in "Point of No Return" that a Senator cannot issue a direct order to a military officer. It has to come from the President, through the Joint Chief's and down the military chain of command. I'd say the General took her call as an SOS and is duty bound to respond, regardless of politics.
In extreme situations anything can be rationalized. The modified telepaths were a weapons program of the Shadows, but the person pulling the trigger was Sheridan and his henchman Franklin.
Yes, Jane, the ISN anchor at the end, she has been a regular guest. She was quite surprised when JMS called her back to do that beautifully emotional scene. I love JMS' writing. Be seeing you!
Apparently Maggie Egan was touched when she was remember so fondly by fans at a convention, which I'd say is a testament to how well she did her job, she had quite a few big moments too since she was on air when Santiago's ship was destroyed
@@BabylonLurker I'd love to see her interviewed by Nicole on the Grey 17 podcast - with Nicole having worked in the media, I think it would be a fun discussion
The last time a Minbari fleet came to Earth, it was to destroy it; this time, it's to save it. And notice the beautiful symmetry -- the first pilot to die in defending Earth against the commandeered defense grid ... is a Minbari.
.. It is a great literary device (exciting), and I guess there MAY be people that are petty enough to do things like that.. but.. technically "poisoning the well" (either literally OR salting the land, scorched earth) has only been used in history where there IS a tactical gain to be made from it.. Historically Russia have used Scorched earth to defend themselves properly against invaders. Retreating while making SURE that there is nothing left that the invading forces can use to replenish their troops so they WILL have to depend on their supply lines that will get longer and longer. The Romans salted the lands (and wells) of territories they were being forced to get out of.. Which isn't tactically advantageous if you ALSO intend to retake the area because you ARE ruining it's ability to sustain life (and grow crops), BUT!!!!.. it is a deterrent for OTHER areas that MAY want to rebell against the occupation.. Poisoning the well can be part of what you do in such scenario as-well, but as an individual tactics it's primarily when you are trying to take over a well fortified city that you seem to end up with a never ending siege, IF you can ruin their water supply the siege WILL be over. The Rhetorical power-tool called "Poison the well" is when you find a rhetoric "excuse" to claim that something is unacceptable/unusable as an argument based on a rather superficial face-value. Godwin's law is a good one. Yes; people clasping at straws MIGHT try to use a snide remark about how something relates to Nazi Germany in one way or another (example of whee Godwin's law IS applicable is if you f.ex. say "Hitler also hated Smoking", but.. WWII and how the Nazi party got to do what they did, how they convinced people to look the other way, how their propaganda worked... The excuses they made to try to validate bad ideologies AND how we can know that it IS bad judgement and bad ideas?.. I don't think there is any part of human history that is as well documented, and where the entire process can be traced as clearly as in that era.. and.. for some reason someone has AUTOMATICALLY lost an argument if they just REFERENCE it? I mean..to use an extreme example: Aren't we all in agreement that F.ex. statements like.. "Hitler also thought all Jews are evil and should be gassed to death".. IS a valid argument. Godwin's law is a perfect example of "Poisoning the well". There are situations where it is correct (It's called "Glue" when you either try to say that one thing is bad because of random similarities with some other thing, OR! That something is good because of random similarities with other things.. There is also a more common word- which I don't remember- on how it is used in corporate propaganda when they use famous that are positively viewed by people and try to make them the faces of the company. The difference is that they aren't trying to make a specific argument, but instead just rely on juxtaposition and how cognitive dissonance TEND to mean that people's emotions "even out" between two things that they think are connected. So the difference between trying to make an argument or if you just hope it spills over).. but seriously Godwin's law has been the basis of many a game of pigeon chess.
General Lefcourt wasn’t involved. He said they were monitoring the situation, meaning he knew what was happening and was also aware of the Agamemnon’s impending destruction. And yeah, that scene was always a bit funny because it looks like the two ships are going to crash spectacularly.
You think Endgame is some chess metaphor about the downfall of Clark and the success of Sheridan's forces, but it is about Marcus and Susan: which piece on the board will be sacrificed?
I think some of that time when we saw Sheridan in a light that made us second guess him must have been partially setup for Garibaldi's turning on him, to make it seem more credible. Introduce a shadow of doubt, and push it to the point we can see why Michael might do that.
They could have ended the series here with one or two more episodes - indeed, they thought they had to as they were under threat of cancellation. Thankfully they got a fifth season. Girl, you're gonna find it about as uneven as season 1 - some iffy episodes, some AMAZING episodes. Keep the faith. I cannot wait to see your reaction to the finale :)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
The reporter at the end, "Jane," is the same reporter we saw as the main ISN anchor from Season 1 up through "Severed Dreams" in Season 3. Meaning she was imprisoned and tortured for the past year-and-a-half, and her compatriots, like the reporter, "Rick," who cut in during "Severed Dreams," and other major reporters we saw before martial law, but then never again afterwards, like Cynthia Torqueman and Mary Ann Cramer, are most-likely in a very bad state, or dead. The actress _really_ sells what she's been through in that first scene back.
I think Torqueman and Cramer probably fitted in nicely with Clarke ISN.
@@simongiles9749I don't know about Torqueman in that regard and I would bet, unlike today, many of the reporters at ISN sold the line not because they bought into it but they didn't want to be arrested. That was probably the only tidbit of truth sold to Sheridan in that episode earlier this season, just that particular reporter did buy into it.
You must remember that Joe was told that the planned 5th season wouldn't happen, so he wrapped up the show at the end of the 4th. _Then_ the suits okayed the 5th season so he had to add a whole new tranche of story. The *amazing* last episode was actually filmed for the end of season 4, but it's set in the future so worked at the end of season 5.
Re: Using the Telepaths - As Franklin said it's 30 lives against 30,000, they may have been victims of the shadows, but the cold calculation works out as "ethical". As Sheridan's old commander - he wasn't part of it, he was just lucky enough to have figured out the telepath sabotage & get to Earth in time to help; as he wasn't a Clarke fanatic so with Clarke gone it wasn't a problem for him to recognise the true threat & help when he arrived.
With the Apollo captain, my take is that he heard the call come out from the senator and took that to be a legitimate command along the proper chain of command. He never shifted his loyalty, it was just the person at the end of the chain was different.
Had to say, I loved that you spent so much at the start grieving for Ivanova knowing what Marcus was going to do. That moment Lennier said usable and your hope came back...
I don't think that's quite it, a senator has no position in the chain of command. General Lefcourt just believes that it's not the place of the military to usurp the democratically elected government... but that doesn't extend to wiping out millions of innocent lives.
It's stated in "Point of No Return" that a Senator cannot issue a direct order to a military officer. It has to come from the President, through the Joint Chief's and down the military chain of command. I'd say the General took her call as an SOS and is duty bound to respond, regardless of politics.
@@wrorchestra1 That's a better way to put it. There were probably other channels through which he could corroborate the SOS too
In extreme situations anything can be rationalized. The modified telepaths were a weapons program of the Shadows, but the person pulling the trigger was Sheridan and his henchman Franklin.
The writing on President Clark's sheet is very interesting.
Yes, Jane, the ISN anchor at the end, she has been a regular guest. She was quite surprised when JMS called her back to do that beautifully emotional scene.
I love JMS' writing.
Be seeing you!
Apparently Maggie Egan was touched when she was remember so fondly by fans at a convention, which I'd say is a testament to how well she did her job, she had quite a few big moments too since she was on air when Santiago's ship was destroyed
@@neilbiggs1353 Yes, she was. I was one of the fans at that convention. I met her once more at another convention a few years later. Lovely lady.
@@BabylonLurker I'd love to see her interviewed by Nicole on the Grey 17 podcast - with Nicole having worked in the media, I think it would be a fun discussion
@@neilbiggs1353 It would, indeed!
@@neilbiggs1353Apparently the actress was quite surprised that the fans knew the character's name as she didn't. ( Babylon Podcast #54 )
The last time a Minbari fleet came to Earth, it was to destroy it; this time, it's to save it. And notice the beautiful symmetry -- the first pilot to die in defending Earth against the commandeered defense grid ... is a Minbari.
Such an awesome show I rewatch it all the time
A fantastic episode ... A gallant end for Marus .
.. It is a great literary device (exciting), and I guess there MAY be people that are petty enough to do things like that.. but.. technically "poisoning the well" (either literally OR salting the land, scorched earth) has only been used in history where there IS a tactical gain to be made from it.. Historically Russia have used Scorched earth to defend themselves properly against invaders. Retreating while making SURE that there is nothing left that the invading forces can use to replenish their troops so they WILL have to depend on their supply lines that will get longer and longer. The Romans salted the lands (and wells) of territories they were being forced to get out of.. Which isn't tactically advantageous if you ALSO intend to retake the area because you ARE ruining it's ability to sustain life (and grow crops), BUT!!!!.. it is a deterrent for OTHER areas that MAY want to rebell against the occupation.. Poisoning the well can be part of what you do in such scenario as-well, but as an individual tactics it's primarily when you are trying to take over a well fortified city that you seem to end up with a never ending siege, IF you can ruin their water supply the siege WILL be over.
The Rhetorical power-tool called "Poison the well" is when you find a rhetoric "excuse" to claim that something is unacceptable/unusable as an argument based on a rather superficial face-value. Godwin's law is a good one. Yes; people clasping at straws MIGHT try to use a snide remark about how something relates to Nazi Germany in one way or another (example of whee Godwin's law IS applicable is if you f.ex. say "Hitler also hated Smoking", but.. WWII and how the Nazi party got to do what they did, how they convinced people to look the other way, how their propaganda worked... The excuses they made to try to validate bad ideologies AND how we can know that it IS bad judgement and bad ideas?.. I don't think there is any part of human history that is as well documented, and where the entire process can be traced as clearly as in that era.. and.. for some reason someone has AUTOMATICALLY lost an argument if they just REFERENCE it?
I mean..to use an extreme example: Aren't we all in agreement that F.ex. statements like.. "Hitler also thought all Jews are evil and should be gassed to death".. IS a valid argument. Godwin's law is a perfect example of "Poisoning the well". There are situations where it is correct (It's called "Glue" when you either try to say that one thing is bad because of random similarities with some other thing, OR! That something is good because of random similarities with other things.. There is also a more common word- which I don't remember- on how it is used in corporate propaganda when they use famous that are positively viewed by people and try to make them the faces of the company. The difference is that they aren't trying to make a specific argument, but instead just rely on juxtaposition and how cognitive dissonance TEND to mean that people's emotions "even out" between two things that they think are connected. So the difference between trying to make an argument or if you just hope it spills over).. but seriously Godwin's law has been the basis of many a game of pigeon chess.
General Lefcourt wasn’t involved. He said they were monitoring the situation, meaning he knew what was happening and was also aware of the Agamemnon’s impending destruction.
And yeah, that scene was always a bit funny because it looks like the two ships are going to crash spectacularly.
You think Endgame is some chess metaphor about the downfall of Clark and the success of Sheridan's forces, but it is about Marcus and Susan: which piece on the board will be sacrificed?
It's Science Fiction. Nobody ever really dies... :D
I think some of that time when we saw Sheridan in a light that made us second guess him must have been partially setup for Garibaldi's turning on him, to make it seem more credible. Introduce a shadow of doubt, and push it to the point we can see why Michael might do that.
They could have ended the series here with one or two more episodes - indeed, they thought they had to as they were under threat of cancellation.
Thankfully they got a fifth season. Girl, you're gonna find it about as uneven as season 1 - some iffy episodes, some AMAZING episodes. Keep the faith. I cannot wait to see your reaction to the finale :)
❤🧡💛💚💙💜