Babylon 5 Newbies React to 2x22 | The Fall of Night | Season Finale
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- Watch Mike, Gerard, Ray, and Julien react to Babylon 5 2x22! The Fall of Night
Incredible ending to an incredible season
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*********Content in this Video******************************
00:00 Intro
05:52 Reaction
32:16 Review and Afterthoughts
#babylon5
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Развлечения
"Peace in our time." The same words used by Neville Chamberlain upon his return to England after meeting with Adolf Hitler.
Yeah. Mr. Lantz was cast to look a whole lot like Neville Chamberlain. Appeasement of the Nazis and appeasement of the Centauri here is pretty similar.
I wonder if he met the Emperor, or rather Refa? The latter would fit better in my eyes.
He met with Molari.@@SirMarshalHaig
@@guscarlson7021 Yes but before? The whole thing had a setup
I think it was done by intermediaries, but not nessa celery.
Lenier and Vir at the bar scenes are a rare gem. Treasure them.
"A cross between a spider and your worse nightmare." So another spider then.
And back when this aired, we couldn't binge watch, but had to wait for next week or a few months. It was also cool being on the original B5 newsgroups where each episode was being discussed as more info to the story arc came out each show. JMS was on the group for a time as well. That was a cool time... one of the first series written as a huge story arc, an online fan group, and the creator interacting directly with fans (and dropping cryptic hints as to what was coming)... fun to have watched that emerge in real time over years.
I was on the Lurkers Guide so much when this show aired. So many theories being discussed. Waiting for the new season was torture.
Yep, JMS was on Compuserve's Science Fiction Forum at the time. It was very innovative.
I was there - it was TRULY amazing!
When the Earth ambassador guy described the treaty he wanted as 'Peace in our time', that was a reference (by the writers) to Neville Chamberlain's foolish declaration after getting Hitler to sign a treaty - which Hitler later, predictably, broke.
As a science fiction fan since the 90s, Ive seen my share of godlike beings portrayed. But this episode of Babylon 5 where Kosh was an angel to everyone (except Londo) is very special to me. It's my favorite season finale of the show, maybe even more than season 3's amazing one. Thank you for showing that wonderment of seeing this the first time coz that's how I reacted when I first saw it.
And interestingly - both season endings feature a j***. "J*** NOW!!!"
JMS was pressured into creating a "top gun" type character by network execs.. That was where Lt. Keffer came from. However, JMS agreed to establishing the character, but swore that he would find a way to kill him off ASAP. This is the episode where it happens.
And good riddance
And what a pity it was, because as far as scifi hot shot pilots go I liked him. (well, he WAS written by JMS of course).
Also - around the same time season two ran I had played Wing Commander 2, in which the same actor ALSO plays another hot shot space fighter pilot. Although a villainous one. :D
Don't forget Ramirez. He was a similar type Star Fury pilot that got whacked earlier in season 2 when Sheridan's flight got ambushed and he was taken prisoner. Ramirez managed to get back to B5, but died from radiation poisoning.
It kind of makes sense to have a Wing commander type character even if JMS didn't really like Keffer. In the command staff the Pilots don't really have a main commander, I think JMS wanted to leave that open for plot of the week things where he could put any of the command staff in that role but sometimes it kind of stretches things a bit thin. Like how does the Security chief even know how to pilot a fighter?
Don't forget Refa's opinion of treaties .."Ink On A Page !"....
Fun fact about Keffer, the fighter pilot who died: he was introduced into the show because the executives thought a hot shot fighter pilot would make for exciting viewing, and forced J Michael Straczynski (or JMS), the creator and writer of Babylon 5, to include him. So JMS did and promptly killed Keffer off.
JMS said he felt bad for the actor, who was stuck in that situation of push and pull between creator and studio, but he went ahead with it anyway. And when Keffer got killed off, the executives didn't care.
I was starting to warm to Keffer when they killed him off. But, it did add some good drama and fear for the other characters that a character I thought was going to be a main one was suddenly gone.
It was actually a good idea, but would have been better if he'd been introduced more organically like Zack and Corwen.
As I understand it, though, from now on the studio execs basically leave the show alone in a form of benign neglect.
Keffer barely, if ever, interacted with the other main characters so that makes it clear how JMS felt about the situation.
@@dlxmarks He might not be as beloved as replacement characters like Sheridan or Winters but I do think Keffer deserves a place in any reboot, and his distance from the main cast is one of the reasons why.
JMS may not have liked the character being forced upon him but he did make Keffer play an important role in unfolding events that otherwise would have gone to either a one-off nobody character or someone from command staff. When you think about his character in Season 1, Keffer's obsession with finding the Shadow ship was very likely supposed to be part of Sinclair's plot line.
I would like to see Keffer re-imagined not as a hotshot pilot like Starbuck but as just a regular member of Zeta Squadron that saw a UFO and is worried about people thinking he is crazy. Ironically, his increasingly obsessive efforts to find proof before reporting to his superiors, including disobeying orders to fly off in hyperspace, actually makes him look crazy right up until the gun cameras of his wrecked Starfury prove him correct several months after he disappeared.
Not only would this kind of Keffer give us a different perspective of certain characters and events, it would also leave open the question of what, if anything, could have been avoided had he not been afraid to speak up and if people actually listened to him when he did.
Yes, in storyline the Vorlons are the inspiration for angels/gods in many civilizations. It's quite the reveal. The Vorlons have been manipulating younger species for millions of years, as Delenn informed us.
Sheridan asks that; Delenn doesn't deny it. Even at the time, it was a very fine distinction that Sheridan immediately went to "manipulating." Making that very fine (and suspicious) distinction is a character beat specific to Sheridan.
You guys are a BLAST to watch. I saw every episode of B5 back when they were first airing and it's like reliving my younger days hearing all the wild speculation. You have a wild ride ahead of you!
That Shadow battlecrab was damaged against the Narn, and towed away, not destroyed.
The Game of Thrones references is funny since Roy Dotrice (who played Mr. Lance) is in the second season of "Game of Thrones" playing the chief Pyromancer. It was probably his last performance. Guy had one hell of career.
He always played evil or bureaucratic assholes! (Space 1999) He was a great actor!
I had no idea that was him!!!
He did a great audiobook recording of some (or all?) of the Song of Ice and Fire cycle.
Ministry of Peace is straight out of George Orwell's 1984. Nightwatch are like the Fingermen who rat out others.
Disinformation czar and disinfo governance board
Production Note: Season 3 is award winning. Enjoy!
As was season two, officially - "The Coming of Shadows" won the Hugo that year.
The appetizers are done. Time for the meat dish! Finally.
Let's remember: This is not Star Trek
I can sense the future and I say that four minds will be blown.
You think you had a wild ride? The bronco is just gearing up.
There is one thing I can't wait to see. Your reaction to the intro of season 3.
I'm waiting for them to blow out the mics at the "He is behind me, you are in front of me" moment :D
thank god it's not star trek! the series would have been hellishly boring and predictable! 😅
@@boqndimitrov8693 Hey! That hurts -lol! I wouldn’t say DS9 was boring or predictable though I much preferred B5.
And wrapped up neatly each week with a preachy monologue.@@boqndimitrov8693
There's a very good reason for that.@@makasete30
One thing for sure, Kosh really knows how to make an entrance.
Guys. The station rotates to create artificial gravity. If your not standing on the ground on the interior surface, being held down by the artificial gravity...you are weightless. Earthforce ships have those rotating sections for the same reason. Earth doesn't have magic artificial gravity like the Minbari do.
Technically speaking, it's not artificial gravity but simulated gravity, ie centrifugal force. Advanced races like the Minbari are the ones that have actual artificial gravity technology.
Technically speaking, it's centripetal force, not centrifugal. And yeah that's what I said in my post. @@alfredoprime5495
“Where we going to go with Season 3?” Yeaaaaah, buckle up gents. Season 3 is going to blow your minds!
"The question isn't where are we going to go, but where AREN'T we going to go!"
ESPECIALLY WWE .... and I aint talking about the wrestling!
Awwww man, been looking forward to your guys getting to Fall of Night, and now I have to wait 52 minutes to watch it. Stupid clock, why do you mock me so?
A friendly reminder to everyone: Please, no spoilers.
And that's why everyone said season 1 wasn't so good. Season one actually is pretty good, much better than most shows ever made, but this series has a high ceiling on quality.
Season 1 - more seemingly self-contained episodes, not everyone like Michael O Hare's acting style, CGI more primitive, set and costumes not as well flashed out, some very weak guest actors, JMS still gaining confidence in his own writing voice vs TV standard styles.
That's not to say its bad, but some combination of those are why some people don't like it very much. They are, of course, wrong.
Lenz's line "we will at last know peace in our time" was a direct quote from British prime minister Neville Chamberlain after he came back from meeting Hitler and signing the Munich Agreement. Oh and incidentally, the actor who played Lenz also played Mozart's father in the film Amadeus.
peace indeed! the consequences are still being felt!..
He also played Comissioner Simmons on Space 1999.
I don't think there's anything in the show that will answer the politic questions about the B5 senate oversight council. However, we never see Senator Hidoshi after season 1 but we do get clips from a Senator Contrell during "And Now for a Word" who definitely doesn't seem all that in favor of the project. It's never clear what the cycle is for election, but it could easily be that Hidoshi lost an off cycle election or a shift of party control within the senate got him removed from the committee. Everything we've seen indicates that the political climate has changed since the beginning of season 1, with Earth both increasingly anti-alien and anti-Babylon 5. And even without that shift, remember: even when Home Guard were the villains, we got comments about growing support for them back home on Earth, and they were child's play that weren't even involved in the assassination of President Santiago.
Oh my, you thought Kosh was gonna die, funny.
Yet it was Keffer all along...well the suits had demanded the character from JMS and that was his way to deal with their interference.
But damn, everyone saw something bright and great, everyone but Londo. Another moment to remember the words of a certain technomage.
The Last few episodes were Amazing ! such amazing acting and story development !
Always fun to watch your reactions. I feel like a teenager again. It is brilliant writing and amazing acting and directing. You are more lucky you wont have to wait as long as we did to find out what happens next. Oh one more thing Ivanova’s onologue at the end is amazing. to this day I have it memorized.
48:15 "Time travel is gonna be part of this" "If they do that.. I'm gonna watch Star Trek" - I quizzically raise a Vulcan eyebrow.
Live long and prosper 😅
I thought we were already doing that with Chekov? Well, we know they just need 9 or 16 more episodes to change their minds about what they are watching.
22:42 - if they use the planet, then the Earth Rep will know about it.
28:37 - not gravity different. The station is rotating, which means the buildings are moving quite fast horizontally. So when Sheridan gets low enough a building will swat him like a bug.
31:35 - or Londo is lying
Londo didn't see anything because he was already touched by the Shadows.
The gravity IS different. At the centre of the rotating cylinder (where the cart that Sheridan jumped out of was), gravity is very low so Sheridan was essentially free-floating or close to it. As he keeps falling away from the centre, gravity becomes progressively higher, but it wouldn't be the fall that killed him, rather the rotating station would hit him as if he was run over by a car at 60 mph.
On a rotating station, there is no 'gravity' until the moment you contact something attached to the outer hull. The gravity they're experiencing is nothing but centrifugal effect created by the rotation of the hull and their own inertia pressing them into the hull. Sheridan was weightless while falling and the strongest local source of gravity was actually the nearby planet. In a nutshell, gravity doesn't slowly and magically increase as you near the outer edge of a rotating cylinder in space - you're in zero gravity until you're in contact with the outside edge and inertia meets rotation.
@@Taliesyn42Sheridan also had to give himself momentum to get away from the bomb, which is what was letting him move slowly towards the exterior of the station.
Mr Lance is neither good nor evil. He is the harmless grandpa, and a useful fool for the people *really* running the show at the Ministry of Peace to make people trust them.
Patience, gentlemen. All the answers to your questions will be revealed before all is over.
There's the layup.....and the swing! Here we go!!!
Babylon 5 is one of the best sci-fi shows ever created. A seemingly unimportant scene in one season can become very important in later seasons. I won't spoil anything, but, pay attention to everything.
I loved your reaction to seeing Kosh.
"Londo in the turbolift with a Drazi knife". - Clue - Babylon 5
commemorative edition. 😂
Who knew Nerroon moonlighted with a changeling net posing as a human in the Night Watch. 😮 😂
As with everything else... it's the thought that counts.
"Peace can be made or broken with a gun, a word, an idea, even a thought." - Pierce Macabee of the Nightwatch.
Fantastic reaction ❤😊Season 3 is going to blow your minds❤
The Minster of Peace in this episode is akin to Britain's Chamberlain during WWII.
chamberlain!the poor naive fool!..the consequences of his "successes" are still being felt.
The watching bit happened behind the Iron Curtain, it happens in social media... it never stops.
I can’t wait for season 3
This was one of the best reactions you guys had. You were all singing like a chorus when Kosh came out of his encounter suit!
You're right - Season three IS amazing. One of THE GREATEST seasons of ANY television shows, EVER!!!
To think ,we had to wait over a year for Season 3 on the original broadcast...but,when it finally did....Damn ! ..
What is for sure going to blow up in season 3 is your minds.
Londo saw nothing because he is touched by darkness in his connection to the Shadows. We see this in the episode with the Technomages, Elric tells him this directly.
I SO wanna see Ray's "Told ya so " back-flip now ....
love the banter at the end, enjoy the rest of the series, I hope everyone gets to watch the rest of the series together. buckle up. It will be quite the ride.
Yo Narn, you better herp out. I know that had to be just a case of mangling a word as we have all done, but addressing lizard people and telling them to herp out was hilarious.
My dudes, I've been a fan of this show since it originally aired. It is such a joy to watch you get sucked in to this amazing show and story. Let me say this; you are in for a fucking ride! LOL
I cannot wait to see how much you guys enjoy this. This show is one of the best sci-fi shows ever to air.
Great reactions!!!! I have been waiting for the reaction to Kosh. You guys didn't disappoint. I'm looking for more reveals in future episodes.
"The fall of night"
When things get dark and hard to see.
And then there's the hour of the wolf.
It was so fun to hear your discussion. I think you will love season 3- 4 for sure 🤩🤩🤩
One thing Earth gains from this treaty - time to develop whatever tech IPX has dug up on Ikarra 7 and wherever else they've been graverobbing.
Glad you enjoyed seeing Kosh as he really is. 🤯
before ww2 many did want peace at any cost, because of horrors of previous war. So the old guy for peace is sincere in his conviction, but ultimately he is selfish to sacrifices others for his own safety.
Earth has kind of similar trauma with the Minbari war. Albeit casualties are very light in comparison to both world wars (while "casualties" in military jargon also mean "those that are out of the fight due to injuries", it's stated that 250 000 humans died in the war), it nevertheless left lot of people determined not to be on wrong end of advancing army ever again.
Of course, the Centauri are quite different from the Minbari, both politically and militarily. But while those that have dealings with them day to day basis might know, those that live away from them don't have any clue. But this treaty also has another more sinister implications that only come apparent in Season 3.
"they're expanding in the 4X mode" haha love it
The intro for season 3 is completely different and great.
All I will say is that BABYLON 5 used TIME Travel in the most logical manner. Everything about BABYLON 4 will be revealed and very well done. I cannot wait to see you all experience it. I have been a long time TIME TRAVEL FAN and this series did the best and most logical story to use TIME TRAVEL that I have seen. I find it even better then the movie THE TIME MACHINE.
The curtain goes up now. Kosh was unmasked. As Bruce Wayne said, "You wanna get nuts? Come on, LET'S GET NUTS! "
Kosh reveling himself, the human version is played by the guy who actually voices kosh.
I love all your different predictions, and I can’t wait to see your reactions when you find out what actually happens! 😁
From here forward you guys and so it begins
The Narn ships didn't destroyed the shadow vessel.
3 Narn Cruisers combined just severed an arm from one of the shadow ships. And they do not need to be in tanden to phase in or out of hyperspace.
Great reaction guys! Season 3 is soooo good.
Waiting for this episode was so long but so worth it. AND, just think, try to imagine, it's gonna keep getting better after this. Some spoilers: Things happen, you'll lose your mind, it's a hell of a ride.
As for your predictions, a couple were right, a couple were close, but as usual, most are wrong. Thanks for the review, I hope everyone has a great day
And here...we....GO!
Kosh is gonna use the Force! 😂
Londo saw nothing because he is damned.
I have been waiting for this. So excited
THAT WAS AN EPIC REACTION VIDEO!!!! 🤩
You need to look up what's known as "appeasement policy," in the historical sense, and how problematic that was. Neville Chamberlain with his "peace in our time" line became the embodiment of it (and here represented by Roy Dotrice), but many countries, including the US, thought appeasement meant containment. Thirty years ago, many, many more audience members would've known very well what "appeasement" and "peace in our time" were referring to.
But the Kosh reveal, at the time, was what surprised most of us at the time. It was putting "angels" into this universe. And, without spoiling: now you're heading into the REALLY good stuff.
It's also what McCarthyism does in the US, it use to be the FBI & NSA preview, now it's the DHS. Their methodology merely differs.
It's time for season 3 buckle up guys.
Hahahahaha..... You're gonna love the next episode and the next series 😂😅😊
35:11 Propaganza! Good way to summarize Nightwatch lol. Is that like Bonanza meets propaganda??😂
So I keep checking to see if the Season 3 episode one is done and nope, not yet. All I keep hearing is Ripley screaming at the elevator in Aliens..... "COME ON G@$$&@@IT!!!!"
For those betting for Babylon 5 to blow up, you need to provide more details to win the bet. Lady Ladira already prophesized its destruction, but no details as to the why. For those who want to bet it survives, you should include why you think it manages to avoid Lady Ladira's prophecy.
Funny how Ray had to do the shushhing, rather than Mike
now things are getting real. fasten your seatbelts!
They could lose the station and still call it Babylon 5.
Anyone remember the show Blake's 7, that kept the name even after Blake was gone and there were only 5 of them?
two whole seasons had to pass to finally see the good ghost Casper! I think it was worth the wait!
Colored countdown is so 1968 ... groovy ;-)
Probably the best episode, all around.
funny thing : there was some other group watching b5 and consultring after each episode with some b5 veterans.. and one of the newbies noticed that many times when vorlons are shown , you can also hear like wings flapping... so he came with a theory that vorlons could be like angels. And those bastards ( b5 veterans ) were pulling his leg , gaslighting him for episodes and episodes.. sayin he was going cuckoo :D imagine the moment he finally got to see this episode
If that was those B5 First Time idiots, they deserve all the gaslighting they get. Don't like them.
@@tulinfirenze1990Yeah we know.🙄
No, it was Grey 17.
44 "The Fall of Night"
🎶 Draft a Statement of Neutrality 🎶 #Ham4B5
8:30 the Drazi were planning to stab Londo in the back but the Pakmara objected to eating his filthy corpse, so they went to Sheriden for another solution.
you liked Season 1. you loved Season 2. Strap in boys, Season 3 will friggin' blow your minds.
Season 1 has about a 60/40 really good vs. lame episodes. Lots of character and world building.
Season 2 has about a 80/20 split on the episodes.
Season 3 has 1 poor episode. 15 really good episodes you'll love. 7 brilliant episodes that will leave you breathless, in shock, angry, cheering, and more.
Side note: JMS wrote all but 2-3 of the remaining episodes in the entire series!
The nose cone footage strikes differently now... (2020 was our "Fall of Night?")
Ok, you're done with S2, now the show gets good :) haha
S3 and S4 are amazing.
Thank you thank you thank you.
You would not believe how many people compare night watch to the gestapo and just leave it there like this kind of thing was just one aberration in history and not something that has repeated over and over and over all around the world.
We have so many people who would see this going on now and would only see it as being a bad sign if it was obvious fascists doing it when it's a sign of bad stuff coming whoever is doing it.
It doesn't matter what kind of government you have: when it starts encouraging people to spy on one another and report them to the authorities it's already crossed several lines in the sand even if you didn't notice the first few faint ones.
33:52 How do they get the bombs? They use the Diplomatic Pouch.
G'kar being brushed off by someone calling themselves a Ministry of Peace is always heartbreaking to me. Also, yalls confusion as to what Earth would benefit by siding with the people trying to take over the galaxy is pretty funny. Maybe yall have more faith in humanity than most of us 🥲
Thank you for the headphone warning. Could've used another one for the Kosh reveal. It's borderline, but it would've been nice. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
:D Aaaaaaaaahwwwwww, what a season finale. :D
Just a friendly reminder: Don't forget to react to the season 3 opening credits. I wanna see you hear the intro and the music for the first time. :D
I remember seeing it for the first time and was like ...... "WHOAH!!!!! Shit just got dark and REAL!!!!!"
@@tulinfirenze1990Indeed. The intro-speech alone:
- WHAT is said in it
- HOW it is said and by whom
blew me away. And then the change in the theme. Of course the main theme had some changes from season one to season two, but the season 3 version came as a total surprise.
Christopher Franke did such a great work on B5. I own the whole CD collection - apart from two or three "best of"-Style albums with music from several episodes on it, most are full single episode soundtracks.
In most other series they have a selection of incidental music they then select for the scenes on screen - like: "This is a chase scene through a western town, so let's use 'action theme five' for that.". For Babylon 5 Franke actually wrote a full, proper soundtrack for each episode. Of course themes and melodies come back, but not in form of simply re-using an older recording.
Oh you guys are in for a ride. I'm jealous that I can't watch this for the first time.
Lots of people are making the Chamberlain comparison (for good reason), but it is important to realise that Chamberlain signed that agreement, came back and proclaimed 'Peace in our time' and then started a re-armament program that included hastening production of the Spitfire that massively enhanced Britain's perpetuation of the war against Germany a few years later.
This chimes with my earlier comment that this pact in B5 buys time for Earth to develop whatever they have got from IPX. They think a war in a few years with new tech is going to be much more winnable than one next year and are happy to let the Centauri waste their forces fighting a dozen other races in the meantime. They are as imperialist as Refa, but recognise they aren't quite on that level... yet.
4k views! Killing it!
Thanks killer :-)
Yeah as other have said... now that season 1 and 2 are done, it ramps up double time from here on out. Almost exponential in a way... although without the almost year long wait for the next season we had to endure back when.
The issue people always have with season 1 is its season 1, the same way the issue with season 2 is its season two and comes before season 3, the same way season 3 people have issue with because it comes before season 4 etc etc. Its hyperbole when people say things like season 1 is garbage, and those people should be ignored rightly, but each season is a major step up over the last which can make ranking them rough on the early ones.
Oooooh, getting good !!!!😊