If we're honest the main reason people use cup hilts in HEMA, in addition to hand protection, is price. A spun cup is far easier to make than multiple bars, especially decorated ones, and prices reflect that: Kvetun's rapier 3 is about 3 times are expensive as their rapier 1...
Cool equipment set. I have the Diavlo Main Gauche by Windlass to go with my sidesword. It has a twelve inch blade and I thought that was impressively long, but, if my conversion is correct, this one looks to be 17.6 inches like a short short-sword. What a beast. Thank you for the review. Cheers!
I got a kvetun, and was very surprised about how good it was. I had to change the pommel for a better balance. I can't say enough good things about the blade I got. That said, I heard the quality was varying depending on models. That would be my problem with this review: they may have hand picked a blade to send to you.
Aside from the competitive advantage, there is also a training safety advantage to cup hilts as there is less chance of freak accident blades getting caught in the swept hilt.
As others have pointed out, to date kvetun rapiers have the common flaws of being: too long blade, too long handle, overlarge pommel, floppy blade. This one does look like an improvement. Would be interwsting to hear a comparison review including one of the spanish-made rapiers from bellatore or destrezania. Finally I'm surprised you didn't mention the absence of knucklebow, making this a good option for the Thibault grip.
Good point about the knucklebow! Regarding the listed flaws, I don't find those at all - I've used various different make rapiers, and we have a wide variety in the club, and honestly the latest Kvetuns are my favourite, and the closest to my antiques and the antiques I have studied. The blade length and flex is all optional - they have various blade options when you order. Length is of course totally variable to different rapiers, and 45 inch blades on original rapiers are not at all uncommon - I made a recent video about it, based on examples in the Wallace Collection. The pommels come in a variety of sizes, but all seem correct to me - small ones on Spanish styles, larger ones on Italian/North European styles. There are some other makers of rapiers I like (and some I do not), but overall, I'd personally rate Kvetun near the top, and they have a wide variety for all tastes.
@scholagladiatoria it's probably unfair for me to criticise a non-spanish style sword for not being spanish enough. Kvetun do in fact offer a spanish rapier with a more appropriate length.
I've had a terrible time working with Kvetun over the last 9 mo. I needed a defective blade replaced, which had a large circular occlusion in it. Decided to order some other replacement parts too. I've been asking for pricing and payment details for over 2 months. No idea what it's going to cost or when I could conceivably get it. I wouldn't recommend given the issues.
In terms of English music of the Late Renaissance/Early Baroque, I would say that this is a sword design that would've been very familiar to the likes of William Byrd, John Downland, and John Bull. Btw, Matt, what's the deal with rapiers ALWAYS being blunt on the tip? I mean, if you're going to do a video about a newly released arming sword, I don't think people would ever expect to see anything other than a functional, fully sharp blade. Why is this not the case with rapiers? And does Kvetun have sharps available for purchase as well?
I do review practice versions of longswords, arming swords, sabres etc. In fact these are the largest market for modern HEMA, as very few people cut with sharp swords regularly, but most of us are training with blunt swords one or two times a week all year round :-) In fact I will be reviewing the new sharp rapiers from LK Chen soon. Kvetun can make sharps by special order, but currently their main business is HEMA fencing weapons.
You're my favorite swordtuber now and you did the right thing disassociating yourself with Shad that shows me that you are genuinely a good guy who doesn't want to be associated with racism, sexism and homophobia
I like Shad BUT I stumbled with some channels he associated with some 'unpleasant' youtubers. He did spewed some remarks that I principally cannot support I fully support Matt's decision to distance himself from Shad.
Like a compass rose, starfish, octopus, spider, spiderweb, starburst, Star of David, simulated melted candlewax, simulated overflowing beer foam, elaborately etched picture, etc.
I think that standard cup-hilts, even the decorated ones, are pretty ugly! It's why I mocked them for so many years... but I have to admit that they work really well functionally.
@scholagladiatoria This is why I opted for a pappenheimer hilt when I chose my rapier. They look fancy and also offer decent hand protection. No idea how common they were in the rapier period though.
@@stevenpremmel4116Certainly most. I was thinking of one central character in a novel that i am writing. Right now, he owns a basket-hilted broadsword like almost everyone else but I thought not being like everyone else in that respect might have some value.
@@willinnewhaven3285From a fiction standpoint, I think it's perfectly fine - it's period, it's a common style, and people did move about to some degree. If you don't want your character themselves to be from elsewhere, perhaps an older family member taught it to them, or a respected outsider who stayed in their community for a while? Trying to match real world history is important, but at the end of the day we do it to make the story feel authentic, and even well informed readers are used to this kind of trope so should find it perfectly plausible with some sort of explanation
While a hanger or backsword would have been more common, yes, rapier and dagger absolutely appeared at the (presumably northern?) English border territory.
They have different blade options. I personally use the 'strong' blade, which is heavier and stiffer - it's actually very similar in the hand to my original c.1660 Spanish rapier! But they have other blade options - detailed on their website.
@@scholagladiatoria do you also use a strong blade in the standard cuphilt if I might ask? I used to have an older generation Kvetun cuphilt and ended up reselling it because the end part of the blade was so heavy and thick with no real tapering that the end ended up flopping back and forth way too much. The strong option seems very decent to me but my last experience with the standard blade was so bad that just can't in good conscious recommend the standerd cuphilt anymore. Would you know if since the new generation of cuphilt came out the standard blade has been updated?
I have one with a floppy blade that I really don't like much, but I love the one with the stiffer blade, and it's a totally different beast. The hilts have also improved a lot recently. I suggest you ask Kvetun directly about the blade stiffness if you are thinking of ordering one - they'd be better placed to explain their options.
@@scholagladiatoria thank you so much for specifying nonetheless. I have had contact with Kvetun, but getting a clear answer on wherever or not their standard blade was still floppy proved to be difficult . I do own one of their sabers and dagger and gave a friend of mine a Kvetun longsword as a wedding gift. In general I love their products but when it comes to the rapier I really appreciate the opinion of other fencers. Thanks a again and kind regards, Rik
What is their current situation concerning shipping and customs ? Do they still ship from Georgia ? Or do they have the possibility to ship from somewhere within europe ?
Yo! Matt, try a Destrezania rapier. It is what we actually use here in Spain, and made in Spain. Kvetuns are heavy and floppier in the bind. Kinda gigantic grip too.
Thanks - I will try one when I get the chance. In fact I think I have handled them at events, but not fenced with one. A note on the Kvetun rapiers is that 1) they have developed a lot in the last 2 years (the grip lengths reduced in most cases), and 2) they have various blade options - the one I like is the 'strong' which is quite stiff.
@@scholagladiatoria I watched your video about the latest version of the spanish cup hilt and noticed the grip went down a bit! I owned the previous one though. I also see you re a tall guy, with probably huge hands :). Problem with the stiffer blade is the price is another 100 euro extra, plus transport and taxes makes the rapier 490eu in total. My Destrezania Municion came at 300eu. less than a kilo and perfect blade. And we got a few other producers highly specialized in rapiers, like Bellatore in the north. BTW come to Spain!
Matt , does anyone out there make nice ornamental , engraved cup holder type rapier ? I happens to collect swords and I'm having problems finding a nice example of cup guard on rapier...
The shield with it's boss, which if the wood part of the shield gets destroyed it leaves a kind of buckler left, which is probably where the buckler came from. And then if you stick a sword blade through the middle of a smaller and dished out buckler you have a cup-hilt rapier. I would say that is likely how these things evolved.
I wonder how such a thrusting weapon would fare against a Chinese man making circular swings with two swords - you talked about such a fighting technique recently :)
@@pendarischneider That opponent had one sword... And initially, according to the script, Harrison Ford was supposed to fight him, but he had a fever and no strength, so he cut the Gordian knot. By the way, it seems to me that there is a solution to another Gordian knot, regarding rapiers. Matt said it's a great dueling weapon, but it takes a long time to unsheathe it. This can be solved rather easily... I think so... It's not a big technical problem, like building a space elevator.
I assume when you say the cup-hilt rapier is "Spanish", you're actually saying it's Iberian. Or should I presume that the Portuguese did not use cup-hilt rapiers?
Those look quite beautiful! Rapiers are some of the most beautiful sowrds to me I'm sorry to see that some people think they can try and deny you your valid opinion about other RUclipsrs, and i hope this will soon be a forgotten topic you have had to endure.
I have a hypothetical question. If you were a young knight, fresh out of training, and a knight known to be powerful, with a reputation for many foes laid waste on the field of battle, challenged you to a one on one duel to the death, what sword would you choose, and why?
4:19 No thanks, those tactical speed holes are big gaps for opposing points to potentially sail right through into my fingers, I choose cup hilts and life. I choose my wallet too, cup hilts tend to be cheaper than swept hilts with a few exceptions.
Is it really historic being that specific with rapier manuals? Europe is so small and Spain so influential that it's hard to believe there weren't a ton of nothern Europeans fighting in the style they learned at home with a cup-hilt.
@@damirblazevic4823 If you've only ever seen the "default" map (Mercator's version), I encourage you to look at an area-corrected map. All maps have weaknesses, and Mercator's was chosen as "default" because it's a conformal transformation-it keeps the angles equal, so it helps navigation-but, really, it severely misrepresents sizes. Without Russia, Europe is just 80% the size of Brazil alone. With Russia, it's still just 19% bigger than Brazil, and even 43% smaller than South America (10.1 mi km² vs 17.8 mi km²). To give another example, looking at Mercator's projection, Greenland looks almost as big as Brazil, but it's actually 3.9 times smaller (2.1 mi km² vs 8.5 mi km²). Europe is still somewhat big, of course, but I think people severely underestimate the amount of travel that occurred back them.
@@DrVictorVasconcelos With 10.000.000 km sq, Europe is larger than USA (including Alaska). And USA is the world's third largest county by land area. So, not quite that "small", especialy in 16th-17th century terms, right?
If we're honest the main reason people use cup hilts in HEMA, in addition to hand protection, is price. A spun cup is far easier to make than multiple bars, especially decorated ones, and prices reflect that: Kvetun's rapier 3 is about 3 times are expensive as their rapier 1...
I guess being a rapierist is nothing to brag in a pub about.
"Im spoony...best rapierist in the world... I challenge you to cross swords with, vile cur !!" x)
Well, at least you're equipped to deal with any misinterpretations
Brag, maybe. Mumble, no.
Certainly not after a feed of beer.
@@vedymin1 My name is Inigo Montoya. Prepare to die.
Cool equipment set. I have the Diavlo Main Gauche by Windlass to go with my sidesword. It has a twelve inch blade and I thought that was impressively long, but, if my conversion is correct, this one looks to be 17.6 inches like a short short-sword. What a beast. Thank you for the review. Cheers!
I got a kvetun, and was very surprised about how good it was. I had to change the pommel for a better balance. I can't say enough good things about the blade I got.
That said, I heard the quality was varying depending on models. That would be my problem with this review: they may have hand picked a blade to send to you.
Aside from the competitive advantage, there is also a training safety advantage to cup hilts as there is less chance of freak accident blades getting caught in the swept hilt.
When you mentioned features I immediately thought of Jeorg saying “Let me show you its features!”
My introduction to Jeorg was him talking about ballistics gelatin and smacking a block of the stuff like a giant bum.
Fantastic Matt great feedback and informative as always
I love my Castille, but ive heard good things about Kvetun rapiers, and that price point is very attractive too.
As others have pointed out, to date kvetun rapiers have the common flaws of being: too long blade, too long handle, overlarge pommel, floppy blade. This one does look like an improvement. Would be interwsting to hear a comparison review including one of the spanish-made rapiers from bellatore or destrezania.
Finally I'm surprised you didn't mention the absence of knucklebow, making this a good option for the Thibault grip.
Good point about the knucklebow!
Regarding the listed flaws, I don't find those at all - I've used various different make rapiers, and we have a wide variety in the club, and honestly the latest Kvetuns are my favourite, and the closest to my antiques and the antiques I have studied. The blade length and flex is all optional - they have various blade options when you order. Length is of course totally variable to different rapiers, and 45 inch blades on original rapiers are not at all uncommon - I made a recent video about it, based on examples in the Wallace Collection. The pommels come in a variety of sizes, but all seem correct to me - small ones on Spanish styles, larger ones on Italian/North European styles. There are some other makers of rapiers I like (and some I do not), but overall, I'd personally rate Kvetun near the top, and they have a wide variety for all tastes.
@scholagladiatoria it's probably unfair for me to criticise a non-spanish style sword for not being spanish enough. Kvetun do in fact offer a spanish rapier with a more appropriate length.
I've had a terrible time working with Kvetun over the last 9 mo. I needed a defective blade replaced, which had a large circular occlusion in it. Decided to order some other replacement parts too. I've been asking for pricing and payment details for over 2 months.
No idea what it's going to cost or when I could conceivably get it. I wouldn't recommend given the issues.
Really enjoying the rapier content of late 🍻
As a Destreza rapierist, I find Kvetun rapiers ridiculously long and heavy. The blades are usually >110cm and weigh as much as 1200g.
In terms of English music of the Late Renaissance/Early Baroque, I would say that this is a sword design that would've been very familiar to the likes of William Byrd, John Downland, and John Bull.
Btw, Matt, what's the deal with rapiers ALWAYS being blunt on the tip? I mean, if you're going to do a video about a newly released arming sword, I don't think people would ever expect to see anything other than a functional, fully sharp blade. Why is this not the case with rapiers? And does Kvetun have sharps available for purchase as well?
I do review practice versions of longswords, arming swords, sabres etc. In fact these are the largest market for modern HEMA, as very few people cut with sharp swords regularly, but most of us are training with blunt swords one or two times a week all year round :-)
In fact I will be reviewing the new sharp rapiers from LK Chen soon. Kvetun can make sharps by special order, but currently their main business is HEMA fencing weapons.
@@scholagladiatoria , Thank you for getting back!
I was wrong, thought you'd be wearing a soundgarden t shirt given good taste in music you've been wearing lately.
Very nice I’ve used a swept hilt a lot before I just went longsword all the time .
Pappenheimer superiority!⚔️🙏
You're my favorite swordtuber now and you did the right thing disassociating yourself with Shad that shows me that you are genuinely a good guy who doesn't want to be associated with racism, sexism and homophobia
I like Shad BUT I stumbled with some channels he associated with some 'unpleasant' youtubers. He did spewed some remarks that I principally cannot support
I fully support Matt's decision to distance himself from Shad.
Well said.
I think cup hilts look ugly without etching or engraving
They remind me of dog bowls.
Like a compass rose, starfish, octopus, spider, spiderweb, starburst, Star of David, simulated melted candlewax, simulated overflowing beer foam, elaborately etched picture, etc.
I think that standard cup-hilts, even the decorated ones, are pretty ugly! It's why I mocked them for so many years... but I have to admit that they work really well functionally.
@scholagladiatoria This is why I opted for a pappenheimer hilt when I chose my rapier. They look fancy and also offer decent hand protection. No idea how common they were in the rapier period though.
Pappenheimers were pretty popular in Germany in the mid-1600s, and neighboring countries.
Would the swept hilt rapier be out of place at the waist of a borderer in the Elizabethan period?
I'd have thought most would prefer a basket hilt with a more substantial blade, as they were primarily mounted.
@@stevenpremmel4116Certainly most. I was thinking of one central character in a novel that i am writing. Right now, he owns a basket-hilted broadsword like almost everyone else but I thought not being like everyone else in that respect might have some value.
@@willinnewhaven3285From a fiction standpoint, I think it's perfectly fine - it's period, it's a common style, and people did move about to some degree. If you don't want your character themselves to be from elsewhere, perhaps an older family member taught it to them, or a respected outsider who stayed in their community for a while? Trying to match real world history is important, but at the end of the day we do it to make the story feel authentic, and even well informed readers are used to this kind of trope so should find it perfectly plausible with some sort of explanation
@willinnewhaven3285 That's cool, there aren't many novels set in that era. Best of luck to you!
While a hanger or backsword would have been more common, yes, rapier and dagger absolutely appeared at the (presumably northern?) English border territory.
That looks nice.
Matt,
Could you tell me if the new standard cuphilt still has that awefully top heavy and sloppy blade?
They have different blade options. I personally use the 'strong' blade, which is heavier and stiffer - it's actually very similar in the hand to my original c.1660 Spanish rapier! But they have other blade options - detailed on their website.
@@scholagladiatoria do you also use a strong blade in the standard cuphilt if I might ask?
I used to have an older generation Kvetun cuphilt and ended up reselling it because the end part of the blade was so heavy and thick with no real tapering that the end ended up flopping back and forth way too much.
The strong option seems very decent to me but my last experience with the standard blade was so bad that just can't in good conscious recommend the standerd cuphilt anymore.
Would you know if since the new generation of cuphilt came out the standard blade has been updated?
I have one with a floppy blade that I really don't like much, but I love the one with the stiffer blade, and it's a totally different beast. The hilts have also improved a lot recently. I suggest you ask Kvetun directly about the blade stiffness if you are thinking of ordering one - they'd be better placed to explain their options.
@@scholagladiatoria thank you so much for specifying nonetheless. I have had contact with Kvetun, but getting a clear answer on wherever or not their standard blade was still floppy proved to be difficult . I do own one of their sabers and dagger and gave a friend of mine a Kvetun longsword as a wedding gift. In general I love their products but when it comes to the rapier I really appreciate the opinion of other fencers.
Thanks a again and kind regards,
Rik
What is their current situation concerning shipping and customs ?
Do they still ship from Georgia ? Or do they have the possibility to ship from somewhere within europe ?
I don't honestly know right at the moment - you'd need to ask them directly.
Did you know that kvetun has a 1796 light cavalry sabre now.
Yo! Matt, try a Destrezania rapier. It is what we actually use here in Spain, and made in Spain. Kvetuns are heavy and floppier in the bind. Kinda gigantic grip too.
Thanks - I will try one when I get the chance. In fact I think I have handled them at events, but not fenced with one. A note on the Kvetun rapiers is that 1) they have developed a lot in the last 2 years (the grip lengths reduced in most cases), and 2) they have various blade options - the one I like is the 'strong' which is quite stiff.
@@scholagladiatoria I watched your video about the latest version of the spanish cup hilt and noticed the grip went down a bit! I owned the previous one though. I also see you re a tall guy, with probably huge hands :). Problem with the stiffer blade is the price is another 100 euro extra, plus transport and taxes makes the rapier 490eu in total. My Destrezania Municion came at 300eu. less than a kilo and perfect blade. And we got a few other producers highly specialized in rapiers, like Bellatore in the north. BTW come to Spain!
Other than the size, I think that pommel looks like a nutmeg (with the mace on the outside)
Reminds me of the Kremlin's tower turrets.
Makes me think of a watermelon. It's that striping.
lol
To leftovers of fingers of our smiths all is smooth 😂
Yeah, I'm buying these
Matt , does anyone out there make nice ornamental , engraved cup holder type rapier ? I happens to collect swords and I'm having problems finding a nice example of cup guard on rapier...
Bloss
The shield with it's boss, which if the wood part of the shield gets destroyed it leaves a kind of buckler left, which is probably where the buckler came from. And then if you stick a sword blade through the middle of a smaller and dished out buckler you have a cup-hilt rapier. I would say that is likely how these things evolved.
Rapiers without a bowl guard means more likely damaged fingers :(
I wonder how such a thrusting weapon would fare against a Chinese man making circular swings with two swords - you talked about such a fighting technique recently :)
Or against a dark elf making such moves with two scimitars. 😏
Isn't this where the guy pulls out the revolver? 😉
@@pendarischneider That opponent had one sword... And initially, according to the script, Harrison Ford was supposed to fight him, but he had a fever and no strength, so he cut the Gordian knot. By the way, it seems to me that there is a solution to another Gordian knot, regarding rapiers. Matt said it's a great dueling weapon, but it takes a long time to unsheathe it. This can be solved rather easily... I think so... It's not a big technical problem, like building a space elevator.
They dont have a 1796 heavy cav sword though
I assume when you say the cup-hilt rapier is "Spanish", you're actually saying it's Iberian. Or should I presume that the Portuguese did not use cup-hilt rapiers?
Those look quite beautiful! Rapiers are some of the most beautiful sowrds to me
I'm sorry to see that some people think they can try and deny you your valid opinion about other RUclipsrs, and i hope this will soon be a forgotten topic you have had to endure.
I have a hypothetical question. If you were a young knight, fresh out of training, and a knight known to be powerful, with a reputation for many foes laid waste on the field of battle, challenged you to a one on one duel to the death, what sword would you choose, and why?
4:19 No thanks, those tactical speed holes are big gaps for opposing points to potentially sail right through into my fingers, I choose cup hilts and life. I choose my wallet too, cup hilts tend to be cheaper than swept hilts with a few exceptions.
Wow. That dagger 's a short sword.
Dagger like a short sword lang... :)
Is it really historic being that specific with rapier manuals? Europe is so small and Spain so influential that it's hard to believe there weren't a ton of nothern Europeans fighting in the style they learned at home with a cup-hilt.
Europe is so small?
@@damirblazevic4823 If you've only ever seen the "default" map (Mercator's version), I encourage you to look at an area-corrected map. All maps have weaknesses, and Mercator's was chosen as "default" because it's a conformal transformation-it keeps the angles equal, so it helps navigation-but, really, it severely misrepresents sizes. Without Russia, Europe is just 80% the size of Brazil alone. With Russia, it's still just 19% bigger than Brazil, and even 43% smaller than South America (10.1 mi km² vs 17.8 mi km²). To give another example, looking at Mercator's projection, Greenland looks almost as big as Brazil, but it's actually 3.9 times smaller (2.1 mi km² vs 8.5 mi km²).
Europe is still somewhat big, of course, but I think people severely underestimate the amount of travel that occurred back them.
@@DrVictorVasconcelos With 10.000.000 km sq, Europe is larger than USA (including Alaska). And USA is the world's third largest county by land area. So, not quite that "small", especialy in 16th-17th century terms, right?
Informative as always. Good post
Good video
Me too!
Woah, I've never been so early here
Matt did you just say you've been feeling a bit more rapier recently?
The rapier, as recommended by Russell Brand...
Bs media coordinated hit job is too obvious to work any more.
That thing is hideous tbh.
That's what she said.
Matt, do a fight scene analysis from the mask of zorro! 😂 (the 1998 one)