THE ORBIT SWING “HAVES AND HAVE NOTS” of
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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M Ayers is indeed the genius of Golf. He has worked very hard to figure the game out and has succeeded. I have been his student from the start of his journey. I now play my best Golf and I started playing in 1962.
So it has taken you 62 years to figure it out?
He looks like he's got a brilliant swing.
If he's cracked the code
And was an ex pro
Then
Surely if he joined the seniors tour,he'd clean up?
This dude is literally the golf Riddler.
I feel like you should be allowed to cross a forbidden bridge if you can parse any message from this.
lol “in my mind it’s clear” good brother that makes one of us
“You shall not pass!”
It is complete and utter nonsense. Hard to believe he's get a platform on this dude's page
Pausing it at 6 minutes or so. “The swing ends at the start” really resonates with me because I’ve felt this feeling before. It’s like the second you snatch it away, you’ve got to be thinking transition and swing through immediately. If I didn’t feel it before I would not understand him lol
Brandon i hope you have your decoder ring out. I want to hear your explanation of this and drills would b useful.
It won't work because it has to work before you work on it. In other words, as soon as you start to work on it, you won't be able to do it. So after I thought about it, I decided to go make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and it was already made!!! Turns out, it was the best sandwich I never ate!!!
Kamala Harris would probably understand this completely.
Haha
Imagine this guy explaining all this to Dustin Johnson
Dustin: "...ok, me hit rock now?"
He wouldn’t need to explain it to Dustin because Dustin already owns it!
$125m LIV deal means living on $7000/day for next 50 years if no other winnings, earnings or investments. Practice or lessons? Nah, I am playing catch (or hockey?) with the kids...
I believe this man is a golf savant, and if I could comprehend any of what he said, I could start my own cult.
Martin Ayers was one of the first people I found on RUclips 12+ years ago when I first started playing. Along with Mike Maves. Nice to see him pop up on here!
Would love to see sevam (Mike) on the channel. Not sure I'd learn anything but it would be entertaining.
I think Maves had it down, that trail foot turning does all this and more
@@naj959 Brendan get MIKE ON!!! just for the nostalgia if anything
Pass the bong dude! Wow never saw such a clown show!
Yeah, this is spaced-out stuff here. hahaha
😂 the earth and universe theatrics had me rolling 😂😂
I was having some fun doing that lol
@@BEBETTERGOLF I was half expecting David Bowie’s “Starman” to break out 😂
It's EXACTLY the same , only different 😂
I’m sorry, but I’m still confused. I’ve now watched the two BBG videos featuring Mr. Ayers and I still have no idea what he wants me to understand about the golf swing. HELP!!!
Stay tuned we r getting it sorted. This is still groundwork I think
I have watched long drive Dan's videos on the stretch. And It helped me understand what Marty is saying.
I personally interpret Marty's orbit as Dan's sling.
Swing the club back hard, reacting to the peak of the backswing. Dan uses a body stretch to return the club back to the ball.
Marty has a bit more feel and visual based explanation. Visualise it as an orbit.
I have personally tried to visual a comet and a gravity sling golf swing and have struck a consecutive flushed irons at the range.
Would be helpful if there are some drills or physical movement to help us viewers understand what Marty is saying. Have checked out Marty's stuff and he is not a fan of practical stuff it seems 😅..loads of theory
You know your golf game is in trouble when you need a golf coach and cosmologist to help you. lol
Gain a repeatable swing learn to shape shots on the range. Work from the green backwards, hole every putt use one ball. Learn chipping learn pitching. Golf is about scoring, know your yardages with each club thats more important than a 200yd 7 i. The best miss shots you will too, you score well by turning three shots into two so develop a good short game. I'd like to see more videos on yardage control and its importance. The golf swing in my opinion is one motion don't interfere with it with thoughts. Good video guys
Somewhere in that 17 minute interview there is about 60 seconds that contains the most eloquent description of the golf swing that I have ever heard. It flows in one continuous direction - brilliant. It’s the missing link to a lot of what many other contributors on BBG have been saying for some time. Move with the forces and not in opposition to them. Im willing to embrace anything that will rid instruction of the position golf mindset because it clearly doesn’t work. Excellent video - more pls.
If it went in two or more directions no one would be able to do it. Another way of saying that is that people who move the club in one direction have a chance but people that pull it one way and then another will always struggle. thin kof a car going around a indy car track. Yes the driver has to turn the wheel sometimes but they NEVER STOP the CAR and head in another direction.
Marty is a genius. I've been following him for 15 years and still don't understand.
But I'm getting closer!
If it takes longer than the average pros career to figure him out...
Even when I agree with him, I don't know how to implement.
So if I have this right, the golf swing is a comet being accelerated around the sun. I can't wait to get to range. and work on that. 🥴
This is soo good!!!
"piss off to the other side of the galaxy" haha!
*Martin Ayers will surely provide you, Brandon, with the necessary clarification. Although I have not yet had the opportunity to watch the video content, I believe that the moments of realization will be quite fascinating. At the moment, here in Whittier...either Martin or Dana will be sufficient for me as both possess unmatched expertise eye in this game 💯*
Such great insights on our true innate ability to use gravity for effortless and powerful movements!
“the start of the swing is the end. so you begin at the end. and it’s almost as though you end it….which creates it”
direct quote. word for word.
Brandon, i been ashamed a you before. but this is a new low
Have you ever stood over a shot and right before you fire you sort of feel the shot and then you hit the ball and it does exactly what you felt before the shot?
@@ssubotai
feel the shot? what does that mean?
i have certainly imagined what i would like the ball behavior to be and then swung the club in a manner in which when the club collided with the ball it produced a shot very similar to how i imagined it. in fact, i attempt to do this on every shot played during a round of golf. and even on practice shots on the range. imagine the shot and then focus 100% on performing the actual physical task that would result in the desired outcome. there is NOTHING difficult to explain about what you should be trying to do. if it is difficult to explain or communicate it is NOT what you should be trying to do
@@ssubotaiyes that's what I thought he meant too, but that magic eye of the mind, knowing it's about to happen is not replicable.
@@patcheszimmerman3842 feel the shot as in feel the way the club is going to impact the ball and how the ball is going to move.
@@ssubotai
maybe define “feel”? to help me understand,
if it is not what i wrote; to imagine the task and then attempt to perform it
I watched his series on his channel with jh and this video makes a lot more sense now. So much so that I had the best range session in forever , only for our monthly medal to be rained off yesterday… looking forward to taking this set of ideas to the course later. For me the swing has never felt so good, especially the beginning of the swing and ease at which it starts. Looking forward to more with Martin
This edit is next level
I am always supportive of people trying to help golfers. But I am sorry this is ridiculously complex.
He's covertly destroying the few sane minds remaining in golf under the guise of being a guru.
A lot of people explain and describe the same things but just in a different ways. I guarantee you there are numerous great golfers who totally do not feel the same feels as Ayers. He is probably a scratch + golfer and a great teacher but there is more than one way to play great golf.
Ill give it a few days and check back in for the expected hilarious 😂 comments.
Just when you thought golf instruction couldn't get any more ridiculous. M Ayers, "hold my beer"
It sounds like he coached a lot of guys right into the ground
This cant work for me....I'm a flat-Earther.
Best 😂comment so far.
😂😂 internet is undefeated
You joke but I know a guy. 😂
Funny stuff
If the Earth was flat your mom would tip us over
This guy does make perfect sense
I have ALWAYS told my students that "You start your 'swing' with THE END in MIND..." Sean VanSickle ... I really get what Martin is trying to communicate
Now I am sure ‘Australian Golf English' is very different from 'American Golf English'
I should have watched Christopher Nolan's Interstellar movie to hit the ball better.
Not everyone will get this, but this is genius stuff. Swing ends when it begins - so true!
Please take him to California. Will be great to see you both practicing!!!
Love this theory.
I have been watching Martin and Lee Comeaux for years now and I love their passion for what they know about how to hit a golf ball. I feel as though I am really close to getting the whole concept....but I just can't do it with a golf club in my hand! It is really frustrating. Love the journey of trying to find out more though.
I've experienced many instructors say a lot without saying anything, but this man takes the prize. Kids can do it because their brain is given a task without ever seeing a golf swing. This is the one area where I agree with Shawn Clement.
I’d love to see Martin vs John
Love your channel, but this guy is full of hot air
My head is running orbit right now!!
Love that cat portrait, Brandon
Meow
Thanks for the great content. I've felt all along that Mr. Ayers is a genius and very courageous for bucking the conventional wisdom (a Rock, so to speak). Percy Boomer said that the waggle is the swing in miniature. A good waggle would include the change of direction. What I take from that in relation to Mr. Ayers concept is that the same forces are at play. The Ayers approach would be less visible to the naked eye, but with the same effect. That, is an expression of what is to come. I've taught that the swing begins with an anticipation of the change of direction and thus, the change happens much earlier that one would think.
Reflecting on the waggle, I think it died for most people once the science of digital study of the swing started taking over. The swing became a more anticeptic movement rather than a more artistic expression of a golfer's images and feels. Perhaps Martin has some thoughts on that and the utility of a waggle as a rehearsal of the sequence of movements.
Right on
The waggle is a “fractal” of the golf swing. Precisely as you said, it includes the entire thing. The whole action in miniature.
That’s why despite it not being taught, it is still performed by many of the best players.
Misty morning clouds in the sky Without warning a wizard walks by Casting his Shadow weaving his spell.........
The beginning 3rd of this video about the orbit/cupped in front/then club behind you etc. is the 1st time I've listened to Martin and known exactly what he's trying to explain and I definitely can see it in Hogan. Just wish he would make a concise point either before or after the elaboration, though I realise it is not easy to explain these things and that saying them too simply could also lead to its own mis-interpretation.
You know your in trouble when you know English caption summaries to a guy speaking English in a video
hilarious just as cryptic as a guest as his own stuff. i love golf so much it still interests me though. there are a few gems you'll pick up if you listen long enough, or maybe not lol
I have been wondering how long it would take for Brendon to connect with Martin. He is the ‘real deal’. Have been following him since ‘Secret in the dirt’ with Elk. Can’t wait for more!
As a PGA coach since 30 years, is this the very best information/explanation ever!!! i wont him to Sweden as well.....
I'm planning to visit the UK this year at some stage. Would love to add Sweden to the itinerary.
It's like if Jordan Peterson decided to lecture in Golf Swing. It sounds smart, but no one knows what the hell he's talking about.
Speak for yourself...
Jordan Peterson is brilliant and sensible. Perhaps too eloquent for you, but very logical and understandable.
Unappreciated in these, less masculine times that we live in.
🤝
No joke this guy makes simple things sound like trying to land a rocket on mars. Just word vomit
Ben Hogan would punch him right in the face and tell him to go find it in the dirt.
“I wanna help people be able to actually go out there and play the game. That’s what I want to do.” I’m quitting golf
Where are the other videos you just mentioned?
When I watch videos and swing explanations like this I recommend watching Marcus Edblad. He keeps it simple
I would guess Martin had you countering immediately back the other way once you did your little step/heave trigger motion to get the club moving.
Good to hear from him again.
Not quite immediately. Working on this a lot together right now
@@BEBETTERGOLF Martin is good people. Teaches positionless golf. Be warned. It’s an addictive way to move the club.
I imagine the baton drill is perhaps a more intuitive way to teach what he once termed the sling and kinda backs the body into a point where the reversal and containment move ( or sitz) are pretty well automated.
Tell him the guy who dubbed the stiff dork drill says hello. (Stiff dork has a much different connotation in Australia than it does in the states.)
Interested to see where he takes you. Been watching his stuff since he started with Bow to Crossbow description and Kings of Leon soundtracks.
A match between Martin Ayers and John Erickson. Throw in Monty Scheinblum and Brian Manzella to complete the four and I'll be on the first plane. Commentary can be from the Tap Tap Boom sound in your head guy and the bare foot spiky mat guy. You know it makes sense.
Manzella would NEVER agree to do this. won’t break 90
So…do I work on my golf swing or not?! If I work on it, it’s not there, but if I don’t… (the swing is complete before it starts?!) 🤔
It's Exactly the same, only different.
yeah the swing starts way before the club moves. this is confirmed by swing catalyst. Every GOOD player makes a few tiny pressure shifts before the club actually moves back. These tiny pressure shifts are always the same. The are essentially little swings. When the last little swing (pressure moves in the feet as seen on swing cat) ends the actual swing starts which is a larger version of the little pressure pattern then were making pre swing. you even seen this with players that look like the are standing still before the club goes back. with the classic players you see it much more apparently look at HOGANtrevino, player or jack. They are doing shadow swings (the pressure moves) before the swing.
Centrifugal force, period.
Percy Boomer said in his book you must feel the swing before you start the swing. I think this is what he is saying.
It's taken me a little while to understand Martin's instruction. I've mainly been confused. I've resonated most with the teachings of Manuel de la Torre, and this seemed the polar opposite. But recently I started to process what he's saying and it's strangely very aligned with Manuel. They teach what a hold swing is and how to let it go, not the parts of your body that move in some sequence to get the club to look like something. I've taken this to the range, and have developed more power and better strikes than I've ever had, with no thought of body parts.
While watching this video I had the same expression on my face as when I watch Jeopardy.
Know how to bring it about but never try to do it while you’re aware of what’s about to come because a golf swing’s a golf swing and they’re not trying to do it because the more you’ve done this less there is to do. See?
He did a clinic at my place 20 years ago. Was henuis then and has only got better at communicating it. Great guy, and can SMASH it.
Wow what an epiphany!!
The Emperor's New Clothes.
If MA comes to Cali, time for a reunion!
Years ago Martin created a Trigger to Finish Motion that really is the Whats about to Come...If you work towards the End you know how to Start..
So essentially Martin Ayers is saying the golf swing is an internal motion of every element inside our body that moves our opposing joints and levels altogether going only in one direction with our body going nowhere. To monitor this: note the moment we sway our body or our feet leaves their assigned spacial area and we goes anywhere during our golf swing then our golf swing fails. Got it! 😅 Cheers🥂😊👍👍
this stuff makes jamie mulligan look legit
Jamie Mulligan has taken multiple ORDINARY high school golfers and they have become PGA tour winners.
@@BEBETTERGOLF name 1
@@BEBETTERGOLF
that’s right. there ain’t one
NOBODY that wins on the pga tour, NOBODY that even makes it to the pga tour, is ordinary. even guys like larry nelson, who didn’t play golf in high school, was extraordinary
these players succeed IN SPITE OF what a schmohawk like mulligan is telling them and not because of it
The end is nigh
I’ve got a better handle on String Theory than what he’s talking about.
Who else appreciates the pure irony of MA "not making more RUclips instructional content" while doing so on one of the most prolific RUclips instructional channels in golf? It's motion not movement. 😉
I was clear what type of content I am not going to make. Just as it’s clear the distinction I make between the terms motion and movement. Although ironically, some people struggle to understand words.
Motion and movement are literally synonyms of one another. So, what’s the definition of a synonym? Cambridge Dictionary defines it as: A word or phrase that has the same or almost the same meaning as another word or phrase in the same language.
The pedanticism is strong in this one.
@@Soul_Freezer So, Cambridge defines a pedant as “A pedant is a person who is too interested in formal rules and small details that are not important. “ You in other words.
I on the other hand am making a very important distinction between two very similar but not same words.
@@MartinAyersGolf You’re suggesting there is a meaningful difference between motion and movement. There isn’t. Sounds like you have trouble with words, not me or the other fella.
You’re being pedantic, not me.
@@Soul_Freezer I’m breaking your rules, that must be difficult for a pedant like you. Take the L and piss off.
What..?
Meet the Australian version of Lee Comeaux.
Nailed it! They both make my brain shut down.
is he talking about manifesting our golf shots?
An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory -- Friedrich Engels
In science, the best solution is the simplest solution. It ifs called elegant.
This is not there yet.
I feel we are more in the philosophical realm.
Markus bell or grf teaches this.
I’ve seen him teach the same drills on his channel all the time
There are two nuggets in this. 1. Kids do it naturally ( my default when things get complicated). . 2. The anticipation of the transition. Elite golfers have started their lower body going towards the target while the upper body is still going in the opposite direction. I think this is what he’s getting at ( so is Marcus Bell) . Why do kids do it instinctively? More focus on this area would be of interest.
I’m still not completely getting it. I have watched all of Martins video series with JH. I have a basic understanding of what he is describing. The arms folded over create a mirror image of what body is doing. To keep things in alignment: Body turns right, arms club turn left; body turns left, arms and club turn right. There is also the idea of one motion like an eclipse, and force must be maintained on club from start of swing.
I feel like I am still missing pieces. I look forward to more content with Martin!
G. Lucas had it right, " there is no try, do or do not".
I am no further along my journey to improve my game after watching all this double talk. Can anyone say this in English?
See Hank Haney slice drill
He will tell you how to do what he is saying.
I think MA is clearly trying to avoid giving ‘how to’ instruction.
Also describing illusions and relativity. To a face on observer the hands in a tour pro looks shoved forward. From a top down 3 D view, the hips are rotated and point ahead of the club. And are ahead of the club.
To me, they ‘have’ that, club lagging your rotation, whilst the mass of your body is behind the club. The have nots have the club in front of them from both perspectives
It may sound intriguing and that might be a marketing ploy but I don’t think so as the comments show a lot of people are sceptical.
Just think he is saying, players get settled, they get the club behind them and eventually if left alone it comes through.
Which is letting it happen as opposed to trying to think about your swing, positions etc etc
I saw Martin years ago on Secret in the Dirt and I bought his video. Unfortunately the swing was not explained as it was today. It is a very difficult to grasp from a video. I think an I person lesson may be necessary.
Officer: "I clocked you at 111mph"
Golfer: "I was in motion but I had no movement"
Officer: "So if I put this bullet in motion without movement, we are good?"
Golfer: "Finally, someone gets it!"
I sincerely asked for written definitions of MA golf motion & movement. Took a stab at them myself...reply was I had the gist but the details wrong.
So far the m vs m concept is not definable in words, math, or physics. This may be the actualization of the famous Seinfeld bit, "a show about: ".
It’s simple. Put a bicycle upside and spin the front tire. The wheel is spinning ( in motion) but the hub is stable / not moving. If the hub wobbles, the motion of the tire is disturbed.
Conversely if the rim is bent, the hub wobbles
If one side of the wheel is heavier than the hub will wobble. Faster will only make it wobble more.
The golf Part of this to get is that the part that doesn’t move isn’t the golfer or the club but the center/ hub of the entire system. This is a point somewhere between the golfer and the swinging club. That part doesn’t “move” much at all during the transition and downswing.
Think of a binary star. 2 equal mass stars spinning around each other . gravity pulls them together and an equal amount of centrifugal force pulls them apart. The are in motion but a point in the center of the spinning stars is not moving.
Martin is saying the golfer should endeavor to swing the club and moving their body without the hub of the system working.
Think of Scotty scheffler, Martin says Scotty’s body moves a lot but the hub of his entire swing system (body, club, everything) is probably the most stable (not moving) on tour.
@@BEBETTERGOLF Thanks for the detailed explanation and analogy. Since it's outside you, not sure what you can do to feel it or know how much it is wobbling or fix it...I presume all but elite ball strikers wobble.
My theory is you could put a 'have not' golfer in a good impact position (hips rotated, rear knee, heal, etc) and closely do a downswing in reverse (taking up clubhead very quickly)...and come the closest to getting them to a "have". Try it and see if it doesn't result in solid shots.
Truly begin at the critical impact point and use the same path out and back. There will be plenty of power. A "have not" has either never been there or only gets there by accident. As MA says, nearly impossible to create backswing positions to get back to a place you have never been.
BTW, Scottie_Scheffler is a pretty good audio golf thing to say for driving... especially if you tend to be to quick starting down.
Love it. LOL
@@BEBETTERGOLF It's time to run this by Dr. Kwon. In both your examples you have the same mass, speeds, and radius. In golf you have extremely unequal of all... a trebuchet with an extra pivot joint at the wrists (variable spoke length).
I am picturing you in your garage making a tilted trebuchet with a way to either fix the hub or let it move. 🙂
Count Yogi video is back up on YT. He hits a ball with a clubhead attached to hose, rope, chain, multiple hinges...anything. The key is to have the mass extended to the full radius of the arm / shaft so you can feel it and direct it. Dr K rope drill and whippy shaft training club will help you not need to move the hub to make contact.
I wonder what this thinks of Mac O’grady?
I thought it would be the Interstellar movie but I know it is more like the TenneT movie. Thankfully it is not Oppenheimer
is it a feeling he is talking about? i want to know more about how he believes you achieve that great impact position
Adult possess a "superficial knowledge" of how the golf club works and they're always trying to apply that "superficial knowledge" without knowing that it's completely incorrect. Children don't have this "'superficial knowledge" so they let the club teach them how it works and therefore they figure it out in 15 minutes. What's interesting about "superficial knowledge" is that people don't even know they have it.
Another messianic golf content creator, giving the impression that everyone else is dumb. "Adults possess a "superficial knowledge". Please... you would do so much better with a little humility.
@@ambientpeace4586 Ok, I hear you. Let me ask you this, What direction do you swing? When I ask people that, literally the simplest question about golf, their mind is boggled. They know the obvious answer can't be right or I wouldn't be asking, but then when nothing else makes sense they say, "that way," and point toward the target. Well, that's superficial knowledge and literally everyone has it. The only reason it becomes "superficial" is because we're using a golf club and not a baseball bat or tennis racket. Because a golf club works differently than any other tool we know, our knowledge of how it works becomes superficial. It's not an insult.
@@HolyGrailOfGolf Ok, I understand what you are saying. I must visit your channel again and see what's new there. Thanks.
😵💫
Huh?😂
Thanks for having Martin on. Been following him since “Secret of the Dirt” days w/ Elk,Maves, and Jackie.
What just happened? I tried watching g videos on his channel and wow still no idea what he is going on about
i don't think i got it, maybe if he could put the words into action.
My head hurts. Or does it?
Just realised I’ve wasted 30 years of playing golf and having lessons
Ok then. I’ll do that.
Please fly him out I would love to see him give you a lesson
water is wet
Unless you TRY to make it wet then it's an invisible vapor trail
I spent some time with Martin when he first came to the USA to do some clinics, in fact he stayed at my parents house! He’s an amazing guy.
S.S?
@@MartinAyersGolfBB
Basically just stand over your ball and say “there I just shot 3 under” and walk away. Easy.
Most 'lessons' these days are a scam. There is no secret. And when it comes to equipment the number one issue is the shaft - its all about the shaft. Stop using a pro stiff shaft or you will never get lag you can control and never learn when to start it and when to release it.