You can probably get somewhere between 10 and 12 psi vacuum. If your board was 20" x 20", then your Z force would be between 4,000 and 4,800 lbs. Lateral forces are a function of the normal force times the coefficient of friction. But even with a low friction number you will still get a large enough lateral force to hold almost anything unless you get a leak in your vacuum. I'm planning to add one of these to my OneFinity X50 Woodworker. With the gasket options from AllstarCNC you can do a lot of different things.
@Hamilton If you plane the top and bottom layer of a piece of mdf, the vacuum will pass through the mdf and will hold your piece. And you have your spoilboard in place.
As always, love the videos. If and when I figure out more to do with my Onefinity, I will probably have to get an airweight. I just experience my last two projects not holding with the clamps and almost causing a ruined project. Thankfully the 2nd project was a practice run,but having them move really sucks. Thanks again for all you do to help us poor slow learning bunch of CNC want to be'ers.
That is an amazing setup, and it seems pretty simple to use. You should get a board you can hang onto and a scale to stand on, see how much of your own weight it can lift. No chance of it falling onto your head unless you pull really really fast. Oh and add the weight of the board!
@HamiltonDilbeck, this was a great video. Enough information and a lot of fun. You sure have gone far, now you became a science man 😄. Thank you for the video and have a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year. Family time!
Hello. Great video. Looking to buy one starter kit. I cut lots of acrylic small parts 2”x 23.215 long will this unit work. Will need to put mdf on top and skim both sides for the air to flow. I’m tired of wasting $ on double sided tape. Please let me know what you think thanks
I would be more interested in knowing what the sheer force holding capabilities are. Would vibration from cutting and lateral forces combined be enough to overcome the holding force? Probably not, but that would be a more fitting test.
The table has excellent lateral holding power as well, and vibration from normal cutting will not compromise the vacuum. Lateral holding power can vary depending on the material used, but there is a massive amount of friction created when the AirWeights table and the workpiece are pulled together. One main thing to keep in mind is that smaller parts with lower surface area will have less hold than larger parts.
@AirWeights thanks for the reply. Can a small piece of adhesive backed super fine sandpaper be used within the vacuum boundary to increase lateral holding on small parts? I know I am nit picking here. Only asking because I am pretty much sold on one of these and want to know what to expect when mine arrives(after the drain my account holiday's pass). Also what is used to protect the pump from ingesting any saw dust or debris?
@@Ratheon1075 the kit includes an in-line filter that will keep debris out of the pump. The surface of the AirWeights table is highly textured and provides great friction. In addition, we have several recommendations for smaller parts including using the optional tile gasket, or leaving tabs or an 'onion skin' to keep small parts attached to the workpiece. The tabs and/or onion skin can be easily and cleanly removed in post using a flush trim router.
it's kind of like those tv shows and... real life incidents... where someone was beaten, nearly to death, cause they panicked mid air and tried to open the door. a simple calculation puts the force needed to open it at near 50thou poonds. 10 psi on that panel might make a few thousand poonds that it can hold.
I'm curious about the maths of this, how would we calculate its holding power when changing the size of material used? and is the side pressure from tool movement a factor that would mean its holding power is less in practice?
@HamiltonDilbeck, Your router forces are not pulling upward on your material. Where ever one gets in trouble is the sideways/lateral force. Try the same experiment by mounting the airweights vertical. Then hang your weights from the bolt to get more of an accurate account of whats happening. I enjoy and find your very helpful - especially the vids about your craft shows Keep the great information coming. edited - and @KOWspazed info about the psi is great info!
Nice point! I will mention that certain bits, such as upcut bits, can create some lift. But in general, the lateral holding power is extremely reliable. For the part to move, lateral forces would need to overcome the downward force times the static friction of the 2 materials in contact.
How do you do a profile cut into that without ruining that 1000 dollar piece of plastic? Wouldn't that sacrificial board that is sold separately need to have holes in it to transfer the vacuum to that too? It would have been nice to see some CNC examples running that using the profile toolpath
Awesome sauce! If I were doing this as a business instead of an "old man hobby" I would definitely look into this. Since I give all my stuff away to friends and acquaintances can't really justify the cost. But HOLY COW Batman! that thing looks freakishly amazing.
Ooo I’ve been really wanting something like this for use with my Shaper Origin… I don’t use it as much as I want to because it’s kind of fiddly trying to get the shaper tape on the same plane as the workpiece while also keeping everything from moving around
Hey there! Thanks for the comment, we hadn't even considered these being used with the shaper origin, but that's a great combo! You can access the entire top of the workpiece with a shaper + airweights, since the vacuum table sits under the part.
100% vacuum would be 14.7psi. Let's say you are only getting down to a 10psi vacuum. Multiply your square inches of board by 10 and you'll get your total holding force. In physics class we had one of those old rubber hot water bottles We had the smallest kid in class blow into a tube hooked up to the bottle. He easily lifted the biggest kid in class with just a few breaths. Same concept but in reverse here.
How long can they operate? I frequently do long carves of 12+ hours. I have a Black Box Hurricane system that will possibly overheat after 8 hours of operation without me giving the pumps time to cool off. BTW my Hurricane is for sale.
@@AirWeights one other question can the pump be mounted elsewhere and have the air lines ran to the table? If so is there a maximum distance in which they could be from the table?
The AirWeights can be attached directly to the wasteboard. The kit comes with a full set of mounting hardware, including a set of locating pins so that you can reinstall in the same exact spot each time (if you ever happen to remove the vacuum table).
When I first saw them that was my thought too. Thats where the sacrificial mdf topper comes in. Also zeroing from the bottom of your material can deal with that too!
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AirWeights: airweights.com/?ref=lxcl2w7p
Use code: HAMILTON for 10% OFF!
You can probably get somewhere between 10 and 12 psi vacuum. If your board was 20" x 20", then your Z force would be between 4,000 and 4,800 lbs. Lateral forces are a function of the normal force times the coefficient of friction. But even with a low friction number you will still get a large enough lateral force to hold almost anything unless you get a leak in your vacuum.
I'm planning to add one of these to my OneFinity X50 Woodworker. With the gasket options from AllstarCNC you can do a lot of different things.
Thats what I did too. I think if this proves anything is the vacuum pump with the kit is overkill. Better than not strong enough though!
Just an FYI, you have less than 3 months to clean your shop before we come visit. Better start now :P
I'm gonna be so clean next year... I promise... Next year is the year!
Oh ya! Just ordered mine today!!!
@Hamilton If you plane the top and bottom layer of a piece of mdf, the vacuum will pass through the mdf and will hold your piece. And you have your spoilboard in place.
But you also have a vac leak unless you either use the entire surface or reduce leak on unused surface.
@@BeaulieuTodd Yes, definitely use appropriatly size spoil board to minimize the leak.
As always, love the videos. If and when I figure out more to do with my Onefinity, I will probably have to get an airweight. I just experience my last two projects not holding with the clamps and almost causing a ruined project. Thankfully the 2nd project was a practice run,but having them move really sucks. Thanks again for all you do to help us poor slow learning bunch of CNC want to be'ers.
That is an amazing setup, and it seems pretty simple to use. You should get a board you can hang onto and a scale to stand on, see how much of your own weight it can lift. No chance of it falling onto your head unless you pull really really fast.
Oh and add the weight of the board!
That was Fantastic!!! 👏 No doubt about it you win the prize for best add yet! I love the review!
That’s pretty cool! Awesome show of the strength!😁
Would sheer force be different?
@HamiltonDilbeck, this was a great video. Enough information and a lot of fun. You sure have gone far, now you became a science man 😄.
Thank you for the video and have a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year. Family time!
Hello. Great video. Looking to buy one starter kit.
I cut lots of acrylic small parts 2”x 23.215 long will this unit work. Will need to put mdf on top and skim both sides for the air to flow.
I’m tired of wasting $ on double sided tape. Please let me know what you think thanks
Great job Hamilton! Pretty wild how much it was holding.
I would be more interested in knowing what the sheer force holding capabilities are. Would vibration from cutting and lateral forces combined be enough to overcome the holding force? Probably not, but that would be a more fitting test.
The table has excellent lateral holding power as well, and vibration from normal cutting will not compromise the vacuum. Lateral holding power can vary depending on the material used, but there is a massive amount of friction created when the AirWeights table and the workpiece are pulled together. One main thing to keep in mind is that smaller parts with lower surface area will have less hold than larger parts.
@AirWeights thanks for the reply. Can a small piece of adhesive backed super fine sandpaper be used within the vacuum boundary to increase lateral holding on small parts? I know I am nit picking here. Only asking because I am pretty much sold on one of these and want to know what to expect when mine arrives(after the drain my account holiday's pass). Also what is used to protect the pump from ingesting any saw dust or debris?
@@Ratheon1075 the kit includes an in-line filter that will keep debris out of the pump. The surface of the AirWeights table is highly textured and provides great friction. In addition, we have several recommendations for smaller parts including using the optional tile gasket, or leaving tabs or an 'onion skin' to keep small parts attached to the workpiece. The tabs and/or onion skin can be easily and cleanly removed in post using a flush trim router.
it's kind of like those tv shows and... real life incidents... where someone was beaten, nearly to death, cause they panicked mid air and tried to open the door. a simple calculation puts the force needed to open it at near 50thou poonds. 10 psi on that panel might make a few thousand poonds that it can hold.
I'm curious about the maths of this, how would we calculate its holding power when changing the size of material used? and is the side pressure from tool movement a factor that would mean its holding power is less in practice?
@HamiltonDilbeck,
Your router forces are not pulling upward on your material.
Where ever one gets in trouble is the sideways/lateral force.
Try the same experiment by mounting the airweights vertical.
Then hang your weights from the bolt to get more of an accurate account of whats happening.
I enjoy and find your very helpful - especially the vids about your craft shows
Keep the great information coming.
edited - and @KOWspazed info about the psi is great info!
Nice point! I will mention that certain bits, such as upcut bits, can create some lift. But in general, the lateral holding power is extremely reliable. For the part to move, lateral forces would need to overcome the downward force times the static friction of the 2 materials in contact.
WIshed it has 32x32 for OneFinity size. I'm looking to replace my wasteboard on my custom Onefinity CNC table.
Thanks so much for making note! We are OneFinity fans and we are creating tables specific to the OneFinity machines, so stay tuned!
That was NUTZ!!! Impressive science experiment at the end.
How do you do a profile cut into that without ruining that 1000 dollar piece of plastic? Wouldn't that sacrificial board that is sold separately need to have holes in it to transfer the vacuum to that too? It would have been nice to see some CNC examples running that using the profile toolpath
I saw Frank Hollingworth using a nail gun with plastic pin nails for hold down. Interesting but the gun is pretty expensive ($400-500 or so).
Awesome sauce! If I were doing this as a business instead of an "old man hobby" I would definitely look into this. Since I give all my stuff away to friends and acquaintances can't really justify the cost. But HOLY COW Batman! that thing looks freakishly amazing.
Ooo I’ve been really wanting something like this for use with my Shaper Origin… I don’t use it as much as I want to because it’s kind of fiddly trying to get the shaper tape on the same plane as the workpiece while also keeping everything from moving around
Hey there! Thanks for the comment, we hadn't even considered these being used with the shaper origin, but that's a great combo! You can access the entire top of the workpiece with a shaper + airweights, since the vacuum table sits under the part.
Very cool, nice seeing a package like this. You might want to consider a hardhat.
How loud is the pump?
Seems like the pump is no so loud. Is that true?
What about dust collection, or mitigation?
100% vacuum would be 14.7psi. Let's say you are only getting down to a 10psi vacuum. Multiply your square inches of board by 10 and you'll get your total holding force.
In physics class we had one of those old rubber hot water bottles We had the smallest kid in class blow into a tube hooked up to the bottle. He easily lifted the biggest kid in class with just a few breaths. Same concept but in reverse here.
Hey, thanks for writing that all out. I learned something new!
so quick and dirt math for people wanting to know. if that plywood is 24x24" that air pump can hold over 8400 lbs.
Ham, I really enjoyed your highly scientific test…WOW!! Impressive for sure.
I knew Hamilton would show us how much it holds.
Just curious do you actually use this honestly? Looks like it’s very niche since it doesn’t take up the whole build area
Fascinating subject and I would love to do something like this for my tiny Techno LC 2430.
Thanks so much for your comment! Our goal is to be able to fit any machine, we are building out a range of sizes and modules.
How long can they operate? I frequently do long carves of 12+ hours. I have a Black Box Hurricane system that will possibly overheat after 8 hours of operation without me giving the pumps time to cool off. BTW my Hurricane is for sale.
The AirWeights vacuum pumps are rated for continuous duty, so you can run them all day, no problems :)
@@AirWeights one other question can the pump be mounted elsewhere and have the air lines ran to the table? If so is there a maximum distance in which they could be from the table?
@@jahyder1 The system includes 8' of air line, so the pump can be placed anywhere inside of that distance. We don't recommend exceeding 8'.
@HamiltonDilbeck
How would one use this system with a 1FEF with a QCW with the waste boards attached ?
The AirWeights can be attached directly to the wasteboard. The kit comes with a full set of mounting hardware, including a set of locating pins so that you can reinstall in the same exact spot each time (if you ever happen to remove the vacuum table).
Is the system extendible, say out to 48x48?
Yes! Each pump can support 2 of our 24”x24” AirWeights. A 48”x48” set-up would require 2 pumps (for now 😉).
What about saw dust being sucked into the vacuum?
Each AirWeights pump comes with an inlet filter to avoid sucking particulate (chips, dust, debris) into the vacuum pump intake 👍
@@AirWeights awesome
Yep, my hesitation is the fear of mismeasuring the wood and the bit digs into the vacuum holder.
When I first saw them that was my thought too. Thats where the sacrificial mdf topper comes in. Also zeroing from the bottom of your material can deal with that too!
company gone belly up ? website doesn't come up
website works fine for me? AirWeights: airweights.com/?ref=lxcl2w7p
Use code: HAMILTON for 10% OFF!
@@HamiltonDilbeck hmmm both google and firefox said not secure connection.
Then just type in the url? Idk that's weird
I'm gonna clear my browser data and see. Maybe something in there fubaring with it. Thanks for the quick replies and info.
psi