Let's Make a PC with 2024 D&D PHB video - 58 minutes long Let's Make a PC with Level Up A5E video - 41 minutes long Let's Make a PC with Tales of the Valiant video - 48 minutes long Let's Make a PC with Shadowdark video - 14 minutes long Shadowdark's awesomeness in a nutshell. :D
There is still a bit of flipping back and forth between pages to make a character. When I first read the rules a year ago I was a little flummoxed by finding armor class only under equipment and not combat. But it’s on the inside of the cover, along with weapon damage. That’s nice! Overall it reminds me of red box D&D basic rules, and how that set was a leap forward from earlier editions for clarity. This is so much cleaner than 5E.
Kelsey seems like such a down to earth good hearted person too. I was buying some of her one shot stuff well before she made this and she was always very responsive and kind. I love to see her success.
Love this! We’ve been playing the game for a year and have only lost maybe two characters. We play a lot more “pulpy”, but it’s definitely nice to know that it takes very little time to bring another character into the game if one dies.
Shadowdarklings has been great while I've been playing the game solo. Overall, the ease and speed of character building, along with the pared down mechanics in Shadowdark has me wanting to use it to run 5e's Tomb of Annihilation sometime.
I'm currently running ToA for Shadowdark, right out of the 5e book. I just look up SD version of the monsters or do quick damage approximations for attacks/traps, and its super easy. ToA is meant to be deadly for 5e so it fits shadowdark well, I haven't needed to "balance" or really change anything.
@@kumithebear that's awesome. Shadowdark just feels like it makes so much more sense than 5e as a system for a module in which dying is supposed to be very much on the table and permanent. How far along are you, roughly? And have you had many deaths?
@@ZeKiwiOfTheNorth The Campaign is 51 sessions in (started in cursed scroll 3, Isles of Andrik), been in our version of chult for about 15 sessions. They are still making their way through the jungle, headed south. One was eaten by a Zombie T-rex, and last week... 2 of them messed about in Yellyark a little too long, and went for a ride. Honestly, I don't know how Mike murders so many PCs, maybe I'm soft. I've lost 5 PCs total, but it is a group of 6 PCs that treat every combat with more caution then a SWAT team.
@@kumithebear wow, 51 sessions in! Nice. I think the number of PC deaths mainly comes down to player style - one of my 5e players had more deaths in my West Marches games than all the other players combined. From Mike's descriptions, I think his group plays on the less tactical end (taunting a dragon, touching strange items in a dangerous dungeon, etc.)
Would be very interested to also see Nimble for comparison, as another 5e compatible system. But I guess that'll have to wait until that is officially out.
Really loving this series - is there any chance that you'll do something like this for the other D&D-but-not type games? I know Draw Steel, DC20, and NImble 5e aren't finished yet but it would be really cool to get additional perspective on how they all compare to each other at a glance. Even things like PF2e, 13th Age 2e, etc. could be kind of interesting to include by way of comparison, though their goals are admittedly a bit different.
Not to answer for him, but afaik these are all the games he's currently, personally playing/dming. (And dnd 2024 lol) Could be neat to see more of these videos tho. Cypher system, for example, can always use some love too lol
I really like this game. I usually go with a minimum hit point rule at character creation, though. A guy with 1 hp wouldn’t survive to adulthood. The first time he bumps his head getting into his bunk bed, he codes out with an epidural hematoma. 😄
Back in the early 90s as i tried to bring in players to 2e it was frustrating, since rpg curious people would quit before we even finished character creation.
The 5.5e video took nearly an hour, the TotV a little more than 50mins; Shadowdark clocking in at 14 minutes and still has enough complexity to make a player think about their choices and approach combat strategically (perhaps moreso given character fragility and overall push in the system to come at problems/combat from different angles)
3:00 this is how i treat dnd characters. i always ask people to make 3 because they will lose 2 to mechanics or bad rolls. do not get attached to your character as you are 1 roll away from a new one. i never understood the my character is not allowed to die mindset. seems counter intuitive to how the game works unless you are always changing rolls for the pc's viability. like in real life go down the wrong alley and you could die. go down the wrong dungeon and you could die. keeps my gamers thinking and making decisions.
Have you ever considered playing Dungeon Crawl Classics? It's similair to shadowdark in its simplicity but absolutely insane fun! It's also more old school in tone and all of the adventures i`ve read so far are plain and simple fun
11 HP? - More HP than the total of some level 1 Shadowdark parties! (Very minor nitpicks; your crawling kit already gave you two torches and the Javelin has the thrown property - so you have +2 with your STR and talent.)
Have you determined if it is reasonable or not to start with a full hit die at level zero? I guess the spirit of the game means no but for first timers I wonder if it would be too helpful or not.
With this blitz of videos in variants/alternatives to 5e, i'd be really curious to see you do one for Nimble 5e, especially the v2 that just finished funding on BackerKit and put its beta rules out 🤔
Nothing against Shadowdark, but I don't think its really comparable. It'd be like doing Black Hack, Old School Essentials, Labyrinth Lord and Pathfinder 1e. 5e and the 5e clones are designed around high levels of player character customization and therefore high survivability. Shadowdark, while definitely having some modern design, is WAY more OSR where it counts.
I use the traditional SD rules for like one shots and i let the players make characters normally for campaigns but Not for the Roustabout never that one
The only thing I dislike about Shadowdark is the randomized character advancement. Why couldn't they just use level based bonuses instead of rolling the dice on whether you get a +1 to attack rolls?
I think it's to radically speed up character creation, especially if you're making something higher than first level. 5e is all about coming up with the 'perfect build'; by making it random, SD players spend less time tweaking and retweaking their character and more time playing it. Also you could always house Rules letting your players pick their own Talents if you really wanted to. Personally I like the variety on the Talents tables; none of the options ever suck, and you can end up with an interesting character you'd never build on your own.
@@Heritage367 I think it is also to shake people of the temptation to get too attached to the character during character creation, plotting out the perfect path, since they can die so easily.
I haven't played in a Shadowdark campaign, but I have to wonder ... with character death being so common, do you ever feel connected to your character? I feel like it's the other end of the spectrum when it comes to death being meaningless. On the 5E side, it's meaningless because it's so easy to avoid or overcome with little to no cost. It's a setback like being paralyzed or stunned. With Shadowdark, death is meaningless because you don't have any time to foster a connection between the player and their character. I think I'd rather have a middle ground, where death still happens but it's not a total grinder.
I totally understand that, but I recommend giving it a try to just see how it goes. I tried SD and DCC with my players and they love these games despite the player deaths. One guy is on character 4 and it's a huge joke but a part of the fun. You're right, the character connection is different, but most of my players don't ever fall in love with a character in 5e either. The possibility of death has them all clinging to the little time they have with these characters.
My players are attached to their characters. It helped to have the "look at your HP. Now look at the damage a sword does" speech. After that, they really began to think through their actions, come up with creative solutions, and be cautious enough to come out alive. Maybe it's just a fluke, but my characters seem to be making it through alive.
No reason they have to. A smart party that stays focused should be okay. Sure, the game is very dangerous, but there is no reason it has to be a massacre every time.
"i dont think it takes an hour to build a charachter in the other systems" I have tried to do on paper charachter creation with people new to dnd and had 3 PHBs to go around the table and it took a full hour. Awful experience.
And this is exactly why I love the simplicity of Shadowdark ^^
I like to imagine St Terragnis’ first name is ‘Agnes’. 😂 Her brother is ‘Magnus’. Think of the teasing they got in grade school!
Shout out to Shadowdark, Kelsey and Mike.
I would love to see this series continue with non-5E games such as Shadow of the Demon Lord and Shadow of the Weird Wizard.
Let's Make a PC with 2024 D&D PHB video - 58 minutes long
Let's Make a PC with Level Up A5E video - 41 minutes long
Let's Make a PC with Tales of the Valiant video - 48 minutes long
Let's Make a PC with Shadowdark video - 14 minutes long
Shadowdark's awesomeness in a nutshell. :D
Well yes, but there are even more minimalist systems like for example EZD6.
True, although you might end up spending a lot more time building SD characters given how often they die!
There is still a bit of flipping back and forth between pages to make a character. When I first read the rules a year ago I was a little flummoxed by finding armor class only under equipment and not combat. But it’s on the inside of the cover, along with weapon damage. That’s nice! Overall it reminds me of red box D&D basic rules, and how that set was a leap forward from earlier editions for clarity. This is so much cleaner than 5E.
At the end of the book there is a random character section with all those tables, I believe the only table missing is the gear and items
Minor quibble: a backpack takes zero gear slots, as do a thief's tools and a priest's holy symbols.
And the first two torches were already paid for with the kit.
This series of character building videos is awesome!! Thank you! And I would love to see you expand it with other games ☀️
Very cool video! Can't wait to play Shadowdark 😊
Kelsey seems like such a down to earth good hearted person too. I was buying some of her one shot stuff well before she made this and she was always very responsive and kind. I love to see her success.
But Mike! What will I do with all my free time?
EXACTLY! This Sly Flourish scandal just got WORSE!
Make even more Shadowdark characters!
You could play/run the game
Love this! We’ve been playing the game for a year and have only lost maybe two characters. We play a lot more “pulpy”, but it’s definitely nice to know that it takes very little time to bring another character into the game if one dies.
I love this system
Shadowdarklings has been great while I've been playing the game solo.
Overall, the ease and speed of character building, along with the pared down mechanics in Shadowdark has me wanting to use it to run 5e's Tomb of Annihilation sometime.
I'm currently running ToA for Shadowdark, right out of the 5e book. I just look up SD version of the monsters or do quick damage approximations for attacks/traps, and its super easy. ToA is meant to be deadly for 5e so it fits shadowdark well, I haven't needed to "balance" or really change anything.
@@kumithebear that's awesome. Shadowdark just feels like it makes so much more sense than 5e as a system for a module in which dying is supposed to be very much on the table and permanent.
How far along are you, roughly? And have you had many deaths?
@@ZeKiwiOfTheNorth The Campaign is 51 sessions in (started in cursed scroll 3, Isles of Andrik), been in our version of chult for about 15 sessions. They are still making their way through the jungle, headed south. One was eaten by a Zombie T-rex, and last week... 2 of them messed about in Yellyark a little too long, and went for a ride.
Honestly, I don't know how Mike murders so many PCs, maybe I'm soft. I've lost 5 PCs total, but it is a group of 6 PCs that treat every combat with more caution then a SWAT team.
@@kumithebear wow, 51 sessions in! Nice.
I think the number of PC deaths mainly comes down to player style - one of my 5e players had more deaths in my West Marches games than all the other players combined. From Mike's descriptions, I think his group plays on the less tactical end (taunting a dragon, touching strange items in a dangerous dungeon, etc.)
Really enjoyed all your videos in this series.
Would be very interested to also see Nimble for comparison, as another 5e compatible system. But I guess that'll have to wait until that is officially out.
Would love that too.
Really loving this series - is there any chance that you'll do something like this for the other D&D-but-not type games? I know Draw Steel, DC20, and NImble 5e aren't finished yet but it would be really cool to get additional perspective on how they all compare to each other at a glance. Even things like PF2e, 13th Age 2e, etc. could be kind of interesting to include by way of comparison, though their goals are admittedly a bit different.
Not to answer for him, but afaik these are all the games he's currently, personally playing/dming.
(And dnd 2024 lol)
Could be neat to see more of these videos tho.
Cypher system, for example, can always use some love too lol
I'm especially interested in seeing a DC20 character build video some time in the future
Has he done EZD6 yet? There’s some genius in that game.
Would love to see Nimble.
I really like this game. I usually go with a minimum hit point rule at character creation, though. A guy with 1 hp wouldn’t survive to adulthood. The first time he bumps his head getting into his bunk bed, he codes out with an epidural hematoma. 😄
Back in the early 90s as i tried to bring in players to 2e it was frustrating, since rpg curious people would quit before we even finished character creation.
How silly am I? I am very familiar with this game, and yet I sat and watched this anyway, knowing how awesome it is! lol
Maybe also do this for Nimble 5E and DC20. Even more 5E variants. I am especially exited for Nimble.
Fun fact foundry vtt has an auto chapter builder built in for shadow dark. The only tedious thing you have to do is add gear.
The 5.5e video took nearly an hour, the TotV a little more than 50mins; Shadowdark clocking in at 14 minutes and still has enough complexity to make a player think about their choices and approach combat strategically (perhaps moreso given character fragility and overall push in the system to come at problems/combat from different angles)
Great Vid
This is the way… quick made characters can always be fleshed out latter.
Really disappointed this video isn’t 58 seconds long.
I am sold. I am a first time DM with my long time friends that are all rusty with D&D
Stingbats gotta stingbat
3:00 this is how i treat dnd characters. i always ask people to make 3 because they will lose 2 to mechanics or bad rolls. do not get attached to your character as you are 1 roll away from a new one. i never understood the my character is not allowed to die mindset. seems counter intuitive to how the game works unless you are always changing rolls for the pc's viability. like in real life go down the wrong alley and you could die. go down the wrong dungeon and you could die. keeps my gamers thinking and making decisions.
Yaaay❤
SD simplicity is unmatched in it's usefulness. On a totally different note, how about creating a character in Draw Steel?
Have you ever considered playing Dungeon Crawl Classics? It's similair to shadowdark in its simplicity but absolutely insane fun! It's also more old school in tone and all of the adventures i`ve read so far are plain and simple fun
The first backpack doesn't count as a used slot, I believe
11 HP? - More HP than the total of some level 1 Shadowdark parties!
(Very minor nitpicks; your crawling kit already gave you two torches and the Javelin has the thrown property - so you have +2 with your STR and talent.)
Please do a video where you make a ShadowSun character (a DarkSun style campaign setting for ShadowDark)
Have you determined if it is reasonable or not to start with a full hit die at level zero? I guess the spirit of the game means no but for first timers I wonder if it would be too helpful or not.
Are you planning on making one of these for DC20?
Backpack is a free slot
like drugs, just the first one 😂
With this blitz of videos in variants/alternatives to 5e, i'd be really curious to see you do one for Nimble 5e, especially the v2 that just finished funding on BackerKit and put its beta rules out 🤔
Nothing against Shadowdark, but I don't think its really comparable. It'd be like doing Black Hack, Old School Essentials, Labyrinth Lord and Pathfinder 1e.
5e and the 5e clones are designed around high levels of player character customization and therefore high survivability. Shadowdark, while definitely having some modern design, is WAY more OSR where it counts.
Javelin should be +2.
It uses dexterity, not strength
@@AvengerYouTThrown weapons use either STR or DEX (p.37)
This SD character has as much HP as a D&D PC at 1st level!
I use the traditional SD rules for like one shots and i let the players make characters normally for campaigns but Not for the Roustabout never that one
The only thing I dislike about Shadowdark is the randomized character advancement. Why couldn't they just use level based bonuses instead of rolling the dice on whether you get a +1 to attack rolls?
I think it's to radically speed up character creation, especially if you're making something higher than first level. 5e is all about coming up with the 'perfect build'; by making it random, SD players spend less time tweaking and retweaking their character and more time playing it.
Also you could always house Rules letting your players pick their own Talents if you really wanted to. Personally I like the variety on the Talents tables; none of the options ever suck, and you can end up with an interesting character you'd never build on your own.
@@Heritage367 I think it is also to shake people of the temptation to get too attached to the character during character creation, plotting out the perfect path, since they can die so easily.
Nimble 5e next please!
I haven't played in a Shadowdark campaign, but I have to wonder ... with character death being so common, do you ever feel connected to your character? I feel like it's the other end of the spectrum when it comes to death being meaningless. On the 5E side, it's meaningless because it's so easy to avoid or overcome with little to no cost. It's a setback like being paralyzed or stunned. With Shadowdark, death is meaningless because you don't have any time to foster a connection between the player and their character. I think I'd rather have a middle ground, where death still happens but it's not a total grinder.
I totally understand that, but I recommend giving it a try to just see how it goes.
I tried SD and DCC with my players and they love these games despite the player deaths. One guy is on character 4 and it's a huge joke but a part of the fun. You're right, the character connection is different, but most of my players don't ever fall in love with a character in 5e either. The possibility of death has them all clinging to the little time they have with these characters.
My players are attached to their characters. It helped to have the "look at your HP. Now look at the damage a sword does" speech. After that, they really began to think through their actions, come up with creative solutions, and be cautious enough to come out alive. Maybe it's just a fluke, but my characters seem to be making it through alive.
Pathfinder next?
Yes please!!
2 hours later...
I need to play. It looks like you should have people getting killed all the time, and I dont like that.
No reason they have to. A smart party that stays focused should be okay. Sure, the game is very dangerous, but there is no reason it has to be a massacre every time.
8.5 gold? 1.5 gold? Those are coins, not credit on your bank account 😅
"i dont think it takes an hour to build a charachter in the other systems" I have tried to do on paper charachter creation with people new to dnd and had 3 PHBs to go around the table and it took a full hour. Awful experience.
I dont wanna hate but isnt this just like 5 torches deep with extra details?