Nintendo Wants to KILL EMULATION! Can Nintendo Actually STOP Emulators? A Retro Gaming Threat
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Pivot time! Normally you would be watching a random fun Friday video this morning...but we have bigger fish to fry. Because we are going to be talking about video game emulation, its legal status and how Nintendo is currently threatening Valve and Steam Deck users when it comes to Nintendo Wii and GameCube emulation via the Dolphin emulator!
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I asked, you answered...and I try to listen :) Of all the requests for new content on the channel one of the most frequently asked for videos is a series on the Steam Deck.
About three months ago I did a part 1 video on whether video game emulation / emulation setup guides were legal and I mentioned I thought Nintendo would challenge this moving forward...and they did by removing the Dolphin emulator from Steam. Thankfully I have a long background in copyright and intellectual property law, have taught it to college students and have used this knowledge in many aspects of my working life as a filmmaker and professional athlete manager.
So today we will be talking about the concept of why video game emulation is legal in the first place, the concepts of Fair Use under United States law and what is going on with Nintendo's latest attempt to stop emulation in its tracks. Luckily so far Microsoft and Sony with the Xbox and PlayStation brand aren't getting as testy as the house of Mario is!
But this will be very interesting to follow as if this goes to a court case it COULD be decided in Nintendo's favor and what emulation of retro gaming hardware as we currently know it could be in serious legal jeopardy!
Questions? Comments? Just leave them below and I will do my best to answer each and every one of them!
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#retrogaming #steamdeck #emulator #emulation #retrogames #legaladvice #retrogaming #retrogamer #retrogame 
Игры
They wanna make emulators illegal but won't do a damn thing about the scalpers selling legacy content for astronomical prices online.
That is a massive problem
They never should have released it on steam. Wtf were they thinking? This is supposed to be on the D L
It was a very odd decision to be sure. They don’t stand to benefit from getting it on Steam proper. Only downsides
I think people forget how quickly the law itself can change with the volatile political environment.
Seemingly so. Nothing is settled. No precedent can’t be changed. I’m surprised by the amount of “but they already decided X”…a tale as old as time
Correct.
In such a toxic environment, all it takes is for one side to establish a position; and their opponents who previously cared not for anything to do with the topic, will find a financially incentivized opposing position, and start to pretend caring about whatever that thing is.
@@AyeYoYoYooo yeah man I heard the guys you don’t like really hate the color chartreuse. You should see about getting your local reps onboard with painting everything around your town chartreuse. That’ll show those lousy so and sos.
😂
Eh, the cycle continues. Heard this same thing in 2007, 2012, and 2018. Nintendo will make an example of a few sites, cause a stir, promote their own new emulation stuff, and then it’ll go back to business as usual.
I’ve seen nothing to convince me this time is any worse than the last ones.
Let’s hope so but I have my doubts 🤷🏻♂️
Once something exists on the internet good luck getting rid of it. I'm sure if it was up to Nintendo they'd shut the Internet down.
Haha might not be wrong
It _is_ worrisome because give Nintendo an inch, they'll take a mile.. I watched Modern Vintage Gamer's take on this as well (among others prolly), and it *looks* like Nintendo's only legally going after the keys, but is PR-spinning it to _generally_ drive fear into the hearts of ppl wanting to emulate Nintendo stuff. They *know* they've lost the emulation war for all time, and are merely trying this little grab at their keys to curb it some. The emulation "pandora's box" was *permanently* opened in the 90s with Nesticle etc ..Nintendo can shuv it lololol😹
Give them an inch....and a friendly court...and they could just try and take that mile
@@VideoGameEsoterica eh.. I had a good reply but youtube deleted it (lol) oh well ;p ....anyway Nintendo lost the emu battle decades ago and, while they're well-lawyered, they're not intelligent enough to 'stop' the emulation of everything they've ever done or will do
YT loves eating comments lately. Dunno why
I installed your door lock, therefore I own your house now.
- Nintendo, I guess
About that logic 😂
I think the worst-case scenario is that gamers would have to buy emulation machines from China. They can get away with just about anything when it comes to copyright infringement
No man’s land of not caring lol
@@VideoGameEsoterica lol
That's the thing that gets to me. Someone is going to benefit, and if it's illegal, it won't be Nintendo benefiting. China clearly doesn't give a crap.
Nintendo being at best ambivalent to emulation is what would allow them to sense the presence of and benefit from a clear market for retro gaming.
The wide availability of emulators on mobile devices is what has kept these classic IPs alive making it profitable for Nintendo to re-release in the form of remasters.
1993's Legend of Zelda Link's Awakening for the Gameboy is the best example.
Nobody born in the year 2000 and later would have given two shits about that game, because they never would have experienced it. The demand for the switch remake of the game simply wouldn't have been there for Nintendo to exploit.
A young kid being able to play Gameboy on his phone tries Link's Awakening in emulation, and says to himself, " damn I wish I could play this on switch."
When Nintendo released the NES and SNES classic machines, they made an absolute Fortune.
If emulation had been illegal, it would have been impossible for them to leverage that market, nor would the interest have even been there.
Emulation has enabled up-and-coming Generations to play these classics that are getting harder and harder to come by and get an appreciation for them.
If Nintendo makes it illegal they'll be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I still have my SNES, but the superFX chip in my copy of star Fox has died.
My N64s power supply has crapped out. Without emulation, I couldn't actually enjoy access to the games I bought decades ago that I have in my possesuon.
Unless they carve out exemptions for themselves. Always a possibility
Yes if Nintendo would just sell people these games they’d buy them. It’s the lack of availability that confuses me
They've been trying to bat it down since the Ultra HLE days, and made some ROMs harder to find on the open internet when they sued ROMUniverse a few years ago, but ultimately they're fighting a losing battle. Getting full romsets has never been easier. I'm not a lawyer but however the technicalities play out they'll just end up driving things underground. When all their source code got hacked and they had pretty legitimate reason to take heads off the modders all just retreated to private discords where its impossible police 'bad actors'.
Yea nobody can ever truly make it go away
I don't object to Nintendo guarding their IP's but what they've done so far has been greedy and an insult. They charge people repeatedly for their old games on each new platform. If they charged once and the game could be played on every platform and ran brilliantly that would be OK. Giving buyers scans of the manuals and box art from every region would be nice.
Yes they def want you to quad dip on the same game or they won’t sell it to you even though everyone wants it
The ESA have been lobbying very hard for this "making all emulation outside of company use illegal" outcome. See their efforts against the Right to Repair bill last year as an example.
Right to repair is wild; you own it, you can fix it. The fact that companies want to disallow repair of devices you purchased to protect repair revenue streams should be an instant losing argument
@@VideoGameEsoterica
I guess you don't own it is their attitude.
Exactly. They want you to believe even though you gave them money for the item…it’s still not yours
Me, just my two cents, and not only for this case, but in general. The argument about "the right judge, with the right amount of money", is very true. I feel like the system is always favoring greed over the rights of its people. Unless this begin to change, we will have no choice but to bend over. It's already happened with healthcare, education, and many other areas. Not trying to be pessimistic, but real. Again...just my two cents...
100%. Were not a system of “the right prevail” if the right can’t spend as much as the wrong and donate as much money
We will eventually own nothing and like it. That's what they say and that is what will happen if people sit idle. A petition (and perhaps a go fund me) needs to be started that states our intent to battle big corporations on these software issues. I'm sure millions of gamers would sign such a petition within days. Alone we have no power. Together, well that is precisely what big business and governments fear the most. We can not set on the sidelines and hope for the best!
Things certainly seem to be taken away a lot more lately then they are given that’s for sure
To often people don't act until it's to late. This is a vital moment in gaming history
I think this is in part why we're seeing a pushback on digital media with physical collections: games, music, movies, books. Now every copy of any media sold has practically zero marginal cost the first-sale doctrine can be a note in history. It's not even a sale anymore, just a revocable license. I think we'll also start seeing the music lawsuits about "feel" try to come over to games.
Yes I insist on physical if I have the option but even now with massive patches and updates half the time the disc is useless
I can hear “Judas Priest - Breaking The Law” playing in my head for some reason
I used that for a ski doc forever ago. Great song
Roms have been around for decades. Nintendo tried but couldn't shutdown all of those. I highly doubt they will be able to stop emulation, but good luck to them.
I mean you can't put the genie back in the bottle...but you can give the genie a hard time
Yes they are fighting a losing battle. But that doesn’t mean they won’t fight it
There does seem to be a veil between public Nintendo and corporate Nintendo
@Bob Duckington The earliest "nintendo being a giant prick" lawsuits is when they tried to sue blockbuster in the late 80's to stop them from doing game rentals. Nintendo have been litigious assholes as long as I've been alive.
wouldn't just removing the code in question be the best solution for dolphin? Then users must google it and past it themselves...problem solved? RIGHT?
copyright needs to state a percentage of unique material that can be considered violating it
That would seemingly be the answer yes
Yes there is the “de minimus” exemption / allowable if the portion is considered that minute
@@VideoGameEsoterica wouldn't that be a simple solution and avoid any lawsuits? I can't imagine anybody wanting to take Nintendo to court...
Depends on how interwoven that key is in the source code. Might take an hour. Might take a month
Yes, this is what happens when emulator makers fly too close to the sun. Why did they have to put Dolphin on Steam? Leave emulation to enthusiasts or archivists. If someone cares enough to find the emulator outside of a storefront, then they're an enthusiast, and will be able to find that emulator without issue in the future. Stop poking the bear that is Nintendo by putting emulation of their consoles on a storefront, on a handheld that is competing with the Switch, for fuck's sake.
That’s the key; they went too mainstream
I wasn't too scared of it at first. But at the end, my inner pessimist said we're screwed.
The reality is…who knows 🤷🏻♂️
Can they stop it? I don't think so. Where there's a will, there's a way.
No it’ll never be “gone”
Definitely scary stuff. I love Nintendo, but they can be a real bully when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Overly touchy
Like most media companies I admire the creative and technical people, but not so much the business and legal people there.
Nintendo reminds me of the wackos from the PCEngineFX, PCEngineFans, PC Engine Software Bible forums that rage whenever PCE Works makes a high quality repro of a rare sought after game for their favorite console.
As long as they are MARKED repro who cares? But I do know some got out there without that repro on the art
@@VideoGameEsoterica they care. It's all about ego. Nintendo is full of ego as well. Remember when they made sure 3rd party developers didn't make games for competing consoles back in the late 80s and early 90s? 😂
Yes. That’s why Konami has Ultra lol
Excellent PSA, my dude. 🤙🏽
👍
This entire past year has been Nintendo Nintendoing far too much. I'm overall pretty sick of their funk surrounding emulation. As for the current situation, I don't think they'll escalate it unless Dolphin is fully released on Steam as intended, which might make them lose their minds even further.
I hope they don't either but their statements seem like they are hungry for a bigger fight
Let's be honest most of the people that download emulators also download the roms same with switch. Stop trying to kid yourself it's not 😅
I keep telling folks, the wrong company bowed out. Nintendo always was really harsh on emulation, to an extreme amount, including the whole triwing screws to keep people out.
Yet at the same time they have NO qualms about using and abusing the hard work of emulator devs themselves. From the work done on NES mappers (a shit ton of work, Nintendo used it for their NES game rereleases and virtual consoles, without ever giving credit to the people that made it). As well as emulators which they just ripped without giving the developers some donation in return.
This all form a company that also didn't mind ripping of the work of others. I mean look at Balloon Fight, nothing more than a different version of Joust, and there are more games like that. Not saying I don't like Nintendo games.. but each time that company gets successful? They become a monster. From keeping games from competing platforms (and not because they were exclusives) during the 8 bit times and forcing devs into really unfair contracts until the more modern days where they sue everything they can get their hands on. (Including launching a RUclips partnership where you have to give them money to make commercials for them basically :P ).
If you want creative Nintendo? Then you need desperate and not successful Nintendo. Wii U? Some of their most creative games are on there (not like Switch were there are a lot of rereleases). N64? A killer library of creative games. Gamecube? Same thing.....
The moment they actually have to do something? they get really interesting. The moment they are on top? They act like arses.
Sorry ranting, just am really sick of this company at the moment. I'll stop ranting LOL .
They love to benefit from it while also swearing up and down how harmful it is
@@VideoGameEsoterica Urgh, I'd start ranting about it again LOL :P.
It's just that they had no issue taking the work others did and not even giving them credit. It's frustrating.
That is a problem across basically every creative industry.
Stop buying Nintendo products and let them know exactly why youll never give them your money again.
Only way we can send a message is to vote with our wallets. I'm done with Nintendo
It is hard playing Nintendo games vs parsing what the company does
@@VideoGameEsoterica I hear ya my friend. But we as gamers gotta take a stand now
It’s why I never buy digital if I have the option
No law enforcement in North America is going to ever take this seriously (especially in Canada) if something were to happen from a legal standpoint, they have actual crime to deal with.
Hey in Chicago they don’t even deal with actual crimes lol
@@VideoGameEsoterica lol
Sad but true!
@@VideoGameEsoterica Same in California. The world has gone totally mad
So weird
I guess the real question is does Nintendo really want to risk it? Sure they could throw the might of their empire at a judge but some USA judges would take offense to thinking you can use money to win. On top of that if Nintendo was to lose it wouldn't be just bad for them but bad for everyone. In fact because this is dealing with keys and the actual circumvention of the console you have to wonder if that could undue some of the lawsuits at least partially against even like the Bowser guy that has to give his paycheck to Nintendo each month. The ramifications of Nintendo losing could make hacking your consoles legal and that could trickle back even into things like iPhone etc.
Nintendo stands to potentially lose a lot. But they also potentially stand to gain a lot. Someone in an office somewhere is going to weigh those two against each other and decide if this is where they want to roll the dice
"some USA judges would take offense to thinking you can use money to win"
That would ideally be the case, but other US judges would go "give me some of that money and you have a deal". The US government is beyond broken and the greed of the people that run it knows no bounds. All it takes is one judge to be swayed by greed, or simply just a judge that values protecting big corporations over protecting the rights of average people and this could be a disaster for consumer rights
Sad but true
So, if emulation becomes illegal, how will video game publishers like nintendo preserve these older games? Does nintendo have plans to port all of these titles from the gamecube, wii, wii u, as well as older nintendo consoles to the switch at some point?
Get a provision written in that protects emulation for the rights holders
Emulation is not going to become illegal, there's already a solid legal precedent allowing it from the connectix game station vs Sony cases alone. anyone trying to spin recent news as that is just trying to get clicks
I mean- the keys to the car are theirs. As far as they're concerned, they don't need to steal the keys to their own car. I'm not sure you understand how emulation is being described legally here.
They will drive the car into a tree and blame someone else for it
@@VideoGameEsoterica They'll drive the car into a tree repeatedly, but then sue you when you want to ride with someone else that knows how to stay on the damn road lmao
I think it was mostly because the Wii "common keys" were in the source code. that gave them a legal leg to stand on
It cracks the door open for sure
If emulation became illegal then they couldn't resell you their old games. Emulation will not become illegal. Also you don't need to own the hardware. Just the software unless you technically need to extract the bios. Emulation is fine. It's not going away. This video is just fear mongering.
Def not fear mongering in my opinion
To me, it looks like that the ones that are flying too close to the sun are nintendo them selves ..
'' The more you tighten your grip nintendo, the more star systems will slip through your fingers ''
Haha one way to look at it for sure
I haven't supported Nintendo since the N64 because of what they did to the authors of UltraHLE. Nintendo is a scummy company and deserves noones respect.
Nintendo has been angry about this for decades
How is this at all different than emulators that require a copyrighted BIOS to function? This video seems pretty fearmongering and reporting things as facts which nobody currently knows the actual satiation, example: MVG's video from a couple days ago showed a perspective that Valve actually reached out to Nintendo to verify before putting on the store not "something that has stepped over the line in the sand"
I certainly don’t find it fear mongering as Nintendo is going after multiple fronts currently. But that’s just me
Yeah the dolphin devs including the Wii's private keys to decrypt isos is what caught Nintendo's attention after the steam listing. I get that people like emulation, I do too, but that was really stupid on the Dev's behalf. Nintendo is in the right here, unfortunately
The thing is the law doesn’t really properly explain who is right. It’s ambiguous. Now I wouldn’t use that ambiguity to hang an argument on if I am the devs though. It needs to be ironclad
@@VideoGameEsoterica the private keys are a part of the wii's operating system code(which is copyrighted code), that would be like the yuzu or ryujinx including title.keys file with their emulators, AND listing it on steam. it's a dumb move and gives nintendo all the leverage they need in situations like this. the dolphin devs should have did the smart thing and facilitated a way for the user to supply this themselves, like how you have to supply your own bios for pcsx2, epsxe, or your own title keys for ryujinx/yuzu. no matter how you slice it this was 100% the dolphin dev's responsibility and they messed up.
@@VideoGameEsoterica and the law is somewhat ambiguous but there ARE legal precedents in early court cases that allow for emulation as long as it's reverse engineered clean room style and doesn't contain copyrighted code. that's why all emulators require you to supply this when it's needed. (bios, private key files, decryption keys, etc.)
I’d certainly have made people bring their own file in this instance too even if it’s not determined if what dolphin devs did was right/wrong legally. Sometimes avoiding the situation is the best thing
There is some wording within the provisions of DMCA that seem to contradict some of that. It’s so poorly worded in spots that it seems to double back on itself in places
I don't think that the old plastic moulding protection argument will go far in any court. I think that Nintendo will have to go all in on the argument about illegal gaming but will probably fail because they have not asked RUclips to take the down the tens of thousands of videos that show hardware and software emulation gong all the way back to their original consoles, especially when so many of the devices are also sold on huge sites such as Amazon (quite a few openly containing Nintendo software). So if Nintendo is not willing to take on corporate sales sites like Amazon, eBay, Aliexpress, RUclips and many others, then their selective suing/prosecutions might not pass any test of being balanced across the free market economies.
But they do take down emulation tutorials even if said tutorials don’t break any rules. Not all but some
I hope Nintendo loses money over this. Boycotts rarely work, but I'm only going to get their stuff used/second-hand from now on just for principal.
Yeah I’m sure they won’t
If you own a Wii and a copy of the game, how is it illegal even if console keys are necessary. You could still use the keys for your console technically and the rip from your own game copy. That can't be illegal or can it? Even if you change the law?
It shouldn’t be illegal and it MAY not be. That’s the question
The key is Nintendo IP - the Dolphin team messed up by using it. They need to remove it from the emulator, because they will loose any court battle against Nintendo.
It’s an interesting situation for sure
I hope nintendo understands that if they dip their toes into emulation and try to use their money and power to mess things up and make things very unfair for emulation in general then boycotts will likely happen and nintendo will just die out xD
now that being said, yeah i mean when they release new games for new consoles they should get the rightful money for it, thats what the keys are meant for.
To be honest all of this is common sense and easily understandable, but yeah its scary that people can make harsh decisions regarding things they don't know about and wont look into enough. But idk if it would affect emulation as a whole.. if emulation as a whole was brought up as a case i mean i think we'd have plenty of backers with solid reasoning and be able to justify that in court appropriately.
Needless to say. If emulation is banned. People will still emulate underground and I don't think anything will be done about it. Not like most all the games that were ever released for older consoles are being rereleased. That means that the only way to get one's hands on most all of these older games is buying from people that already have it. These game companies dont make money off of them anymore ofcourse so like its no reason for them to hault emulation xD so i doubt emulation as a whole would get messed up.
Sure nintendo can try to gatekeep what they can for nintendo protects. We can see how far that will get them though before they go out of business
Now, a good thing to do is for nintendo to just sell all of it's older titles in one bundle or multiple bundles for a decent price and or support emulation for older games with emulators that have awesome features. But haha that definitely wont happen, Nintendo is too fueled with making money its sick, so they wouldn't offer up that idea i think, small buck means nothing to them if they can go for the big bucks
Yes I mean it’s not like people would stop emulating. I just don’t trust Nintendo not to get weird
A bunch of hypocrites...they've been using emulation in their own products since the Wii. I guess its fine for them tho, everyone loves those greedy mofos.
Yes they want to be the only ones to enjoy the emulation possibilities
This was pretty stupid, there's a reason bios' need to be downloaded separately. Building the key into software was just a bad idea for the same reason. Should have released the key separately and said dl this separately and add it into a directory
It’s def not the decision I’d have made
Let's Tar and feather Nintendo VGE. I'll get the pitchforks in the meantime.
Anthony..
Send Nintendo to Abu Dhabi
Let's be honest most of the people that download emulators also download the roms. Stop trying to kid yourself it's not 😅
I’m not here to do percentage math lol
yeah sure make it illegal... Nintendo is nuts - on the other side it will make emulation only more fun for us!!
Haha one way to look at it for sure
I haven't seen the dog pencil pointer yet!
PS: This is a worrying topic.
Dog pointer is rarer but still around lol
Escalator, trampoline, thermos, zipper.
Lol what?
I think with another console on the horizon and the emerging portable console competition theyre worried the new devices game will be playable with better specs on other devices 😅
Steam Deck being a “better” Switch than an actual Switch can’t be making them happy
And people still think Nintendo is this great company that cares about its fans.
I mean they can be both at the same time
no one thinks that
Not your average commenter here but your average casual gamer might
As far as I understood it, Valve reached out to Nintendo (not the other way around). Obviously Nintendo would discourage an emulator on the SteamDeck to Valve when asked but it seems its brought light to the Dolphin project and then people have got into it with the decryption keys etc. As far as I know, Nintendo only went directly after LockPick and Skyline (Switch Emu)
And at least the Switch tool should be permissible. You are obtaining your info from your device. That’s allowable
They didn't go after Skyline, the devs got spooked by Nintendo closing down Lockpick and they stopped development voluntarily.
Which is all it takes. Scare people and stifle work
bro I can't with the weird shaking pointer
Weird shaking pointer?
Respectfully, I disagree. This will likely go absolutely nowhere. RIAA and MPAA have been even more aggressive than Nintendo with DMCA and we still have regular updates to MakeMKV and Plex, so...
I wouldn't count out Nintendo pushing this. I might be wrong and I hope I am but its instances like these that can lead to court cases and decisions
Not to mention there is literally nobody to actually enforce these laws.
@@Jokerwolf666 it doesn't take law enforcement...the threat of being sued is enough
@@oldboone you won't be sued for that in Canada so we're good up here.
Too bad you don’t have as good of maple syrup though. Vermont beats Canada all day every day. I SAID IT
I'm not too worried personally about emulation going away in any form. I actually don't necessarily want Dolphin on Steam because there is alot of games that are for sale on Steam that you could emulate and it is for sale on the same platform. An example is Resident Evil 4 (the original). It's PC version is for sale on Steam so if Dolphin was downloadable on steam it would be a pretty easy way of working around it. Also it being on Steam does lower the technical barrier for entry which I'm not convinced is a good thing. If US law does rework its definitions/precedents though, emulation won't go anywhere. Devs will just host the Gits in countries that don't care about US laws and it will be treated like people who pirate roms. Although if the Restrict Act passes and the country they host the gits on is a banned country then you'll be breaking the law by going to that website. So that's one way things could get bad for emulation fast.
It was an odd choice to want Dolphin on Steam. I don’t quite get what that achieves for the devs to be honest
@@VideoGameEsoterica Personally I think cloud saves is the big one. Very nice Steam feature that Valve offers to its partners for free. There's also workshop support but I don't think dolphin cares about that. But yeah, if your game has any use for cloud saves or file hosting, it's pretty hard to beat Steam for that. Funny thing is, Nintendo charges for access to their cloud save service which I think is the biggest case for emulating switch games. They also don't make it easy/possible to backup your saves. The second I got TOTK I dumped it and have been playing it on Yuzu. I also get the advantage that I can use cheats and mods to increase various item limits/timers and with such an amazing sandboxy game I can't wait to mess with those. And I don't gotta worry about losing my save if I lose my switch or the file corrupts randomly or something.
Cloud saving is great
Nintendo are ruthless and relentless. I'm happy to financially support their current system in the Switch, but i've double dipped so many times with their older games that emulation for those is now fair game to me.
Yes they want you to buy every game 6x times for 6x the revenue
@@VideoGameEsoterica Absolutely. Like you though, Nintendo's recent action has me a little worried regarding the future of emulation😬
We shall see what happens. Never know what big N will get up to next
Lets be honest here, emulators have always operated on a legally gray zone. Distributing ROMs is piracy, same with system BIOSes, hence why emulators never come packed with either.
Dolphin opened a gigantic precedent here. It has existed for over two decades but only now Nintendo decided to take action against them, because they clearly stepped over a boundary they shouldn't.
Like I said in the video…they flew too close to the sun. But with the info written as it is…it’s possible what they did is permitted? Language is so vague and basically seems to permit what it also says not to do 🤷🏻♂️
@@VideoGameEsoterica The letter of the law vs the spirit of the law.
Always at odds with each other
Imagine gaming life without emulation.
I’ll be talking about this again at 4 cst today
Thanks to Nintendo themselves, they will make their own previous works on previous consoles complete lost media along with every single game from every single third party developer
They are allergic to selling fans games they want to play. I don’t get it
@@VideoGameEsoterica Nintendo is the absolute king of paranoia
Lol seems like it
I very much hope they do not win any case but I feel it is a definite possibility given the increasingly corporate friendly attitudes in the courts that have been increasing at least in my lifetime i.e Citizens V. United and the recent court case with Glacier Northwest. Sorry if this is overly political I just felt it was important to point that out. Precedent has changed a good amount lately
Everything is political now. And I’d tend to agree…the needs of “business” and whatever they want seem to be winning constantly over the consumer
@@VideoGameEsoterica That's true, we live in a political society where cases like these often define how people live and what we do, it's technically always been this way but even more so now. As someone deeply invested in all kinds of history I find the corporate take down of emulation to be a threat to access video game history and preservation.
It’s all just a mess lately
@@VideoGameEsoterica Truer words couldn't be said
Buckley v. Valeo in 1976 was the original sin. Made it illegal to limit campaign expenditures and Citizens United put it on steroids.
I mean really why was dolphin on steam kind of stupid
My hot take no general purpose software should be on steam.
Yes I didn’t get why they wanted to do that either
I was gonna ask if you were gonna make a video about the dolphin situation, I guess I don't have to anymore. Dolphin having those keys were apparently brought up years ago if they should include it but it was ignored I guess, if they are copywritten nintendo property it was pretty foolish of them to not get rid of it. I disagree that this will kill emulation or even go anywhere it's good to always make a ruckus every time.
The thing is…it’s vague as to whether or not including the keys isn’t allowed. But vague = dangerous so I’d have not done it myself
RIP RARBG
RARBG?
Is this just Nintendo emulator that's out of the question ? but is it all emulator such as Playstation, Xbox, Mame, Tecknopparot and others?grateful for answers:
It’s depending on what the emulator does. It’s a case by case situation and you’d have to go through source code to determine
The dolphin Developers need to remove those keys and require a bios like everybody else In the emulation space, or Clean Room their own solution. Then the problem could go away, at least for dolphin.
This is going to bite Nintendo in the ass later though. Emulation and preservation is the whole reason they even had a market for their "classic" systems.
Remasters, retro games on the software stores, none of that would even exist if emulation didn't exist and Nintendo was unaware of the demand.
They didn't start doing classic re-releases until recently when they became aware.
Their approach is short-sighted even from a business standpoint.
If Nintendo would just start selling their old games to people who want them they’d make money and also be loved ar the same time
@@VideoGameEsoterica I mean they did during the wii/wii-u era but they decided to price everything way to high. The novelty wore off real quick when I had to pay 5 dollars a rom for a SNES game. Now they have their online service where they pointlessly drip feed a pathetic amount of stuff out every once in a blue moon. They have THE biggest back catalog and they disney vault it or think people will pay premium prices for 30-40 year old games in a world where everyone can just get it for free.
The fact Nintendo hasn’t just done “Netflix for Nintendo” is beyond me. $15 a month, their back catalog, play what you want”
It’s a money printing machine
@@VideoGameEsoterica that would be amazing. Crazy thing is, they had something akin to this at hotels in the 90s. They coulf do it.
LodgeNet!
They could just outsource the KEY information out of the program, and let users who are willing to download that key from "somewhere in the internet", like it happen to be with all the "roms"?
Yes they very well could do that and probably should have in the first place
Its actually scary how greedy Nintendo is …
They are definitely the BAD GUY here
I agree with that.. Nintendo hated game preservation 😩
Also nice Ripple PFP
Mahoiku fan here!!
they secretly hired wario
@@dogey8831 yes...they did :) ruclips.net/video/GdxXko3O2dQ/видео.html
Lol
WOW did you actually grow a pair? Or did you kidnap the real VGE?!?
Lol I remove one bad depiction from Asterix and you still remember. I’m still glad I did it
@@VideoGameEsoterica Yeah you did...but a few days ago you said you would not touch emulation and switch. I'm glad you did...if you are actually VGE
Yes I’m not trying for it. They try to get stuff removed that’s allowed. Even if I’m right I’ll be made to be “wrong”
@@VideoGameEsoterica SO: Fuck'em
It's a power play. Changing emulation laws will have a secondary impact on businesses outside of gaming. If you are a massive software company using virtual machines and emulating hardware as part of you day to day it would cost a lot to redo your entire infrastructure. Maybe more than going toe to toe with Nintendo, making a court case a financially viable option. What about military and service infrastructure that relys on emulation of hardware? Will that be illegal? I really dont think emulation as a whole will be taken down because of it's utility and current needed use outside gaming. Best they can do is go after anything that emulates their shiz IMO.
No but if they can carve out an exemption to just target gaming I worry they might try
@@VideoGameEsoterica ahh man. Talk about pick and choose your own laws
Sadly that’s how it seems to be going these days…”rules for thee, not for me”
@@VideoGameEsoterica I wonder if the bad PR may make them reconsider. I'm sure embargoes will be declared by peoples. If they do this and they win they'd be the most hated gaming company of all time. I'd like to think their public relations guy can see that this will bury them faster than letting emulation continue
A good question. But how much of their audience also crosses over? I’d be curious
In all my years one thing i've learned, when someone tells you, you can do something anymore it makes people want to do it more. If this sticks with Nintendo, what's to stop the other companies from going, well they made it happen, why can't we. Once it starts somewhere and passes anything can happen.
That happens for everything. No is a big motivator
Since I learnt about the Connectix (SP?) case; I've been very confident that emulation is here to stay and whilst I don't think Nintendo will ever directly attack emulation because I think even they know what a ball-ache that would be; especially since the emulation community is so intelligent and resilient that I think they would genuinely make Nintendo's life hell if they tried (all it took was one kid from England to break into their system and cause the gigaleak, imagine a thousand pissed off nerds).
But... We are so close to losing the internet archive and the way back machine.
If we lose that, then I think preservation as a fundamental idea and right will be brought into question and most people will have to question the philosophy of a humans right to archive and record history.
If we cant even keep alive the most important website on the internet; what hope do we have to save anything?
I mean fucking hell, Google are going to start deleting old youtube videos soon just because of AI.
WHAT IS GOING ON
The internet archive thing is hugely concerning but it seems like the winds aren’t blowing in their favor
This always seemed like the perfect use case for BitTorrent.
To those arguing precedent, I'd like to point you to Roe V. Wade. Decades of precedent ignored because it clashed with the political views of the republican appointed judges on the supreme court. Precedent means nothing anymore. Take the case in front of the right judge, many of which were given the job because they are pro-corporate, and that's a wrap.
Also, please spare me the responses regarding Roe V. Wade. I didn't make this comment to argue abortion here. I was using it as a clear and recent example of the highest court in the land ignoring precedent to make a point, that's all.
I understand what you are saying and yes that is the current climate; cherry pick the venue and you just might win
Here's the response you invited by mentioning Roe V Wade.
There was abortion laws in the states before 1973.
That was legal precedent before the other legal precedent.
But it only matters which side you are on whether you like it or not.
Were they for sure a DMCA not a cease and desist on the steam listing?
Its been reported as both so...undetermined. Still kind of an "in process" thing
Let’s keep it real 99.9% of the people who use emulators apps get Roms from the net
They don’t actually own the games
But because someone could do X and that's bad should not mean X is no longer allowed for its proper use case
@@VideoGameEsoterica Nah man when has anything legal ever been banned for appropriate circumstance because specific imagined other circumstances were brought up
"videom esoterica"? heheh
Lol
@@VideoGameEsoterica lost in translation 😂
I see lol
If emulation enhances the original experience it de-pantses Nintendo. Case closed.
Lol sound legal foundation
Nintendo is one of the worst companies for gaming
They constantly do odd stuff
Really hard to be a Nintendo fan
It's going to get to a point where Nintendo will sue you if you even think about their IPs
Yes I say this while I also play Tears like four hours a day lol
Splatoon is my Jam otherwise Switch is my Shmup machine as long as a Nintendo console is a Shmup hub I'm willing to over look a lot
There's some degree of irony that half of what I play on the Switch... Is emulated
Haha I get that
Clockwork Aquario wouldn't be playable otherwise
That's one begging to be covered such a strange lost but not Weststone game.
Sky Skipper being dumped allowed it to be preserved.
When you get to legit use cases that's when you shoot yourself in the foot.
I like my feet intact lol
I agree with Nintendo, the keys should not be given with the emulator, if you own the games fine, but we all know that a tiny, tiny amount of people own the originals.
it would have been better coded for users to supply keys themselves as we all own them when we own the hardware. But the certainty that supplying the keys is not allowed isn't there...yet