Diffraction Spikes in Astronomy
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- It's time to address the elephant in the observatory once and for all.
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Dylan, this may be your best video ever, and maybe my favorite astro-related video of all time :) It has it all, an awesome intro, a Wilhelm scream with gorgeous blood patterns (but no blood spikes!), a super interesting topic that actually made me take my phone out for your experiments, and a delightful kick at those repetitive and (to me) somewhat annoying shorts and tiktoks.... In other words, perfection!
Ahh Cuiv thanks for seeing all the hidden elements you legend!
very entertaining indeed, i was thinking here we going again dylan’s gonna be a d***, but mate it was a 9.5 minute ride of emotions
1st 1/4 hmm dylan being a d….
2nd 1/4 f*** maybe his right
3rd 1/4 yeah stuff spikes they suck screw eyelashes they suck too
lastly the picture of the star : me thinking oh but it looks kinda cool
your reactions were 👌 was chuckling throughout
(PS. its ok to be a d…) or at least pretend , i’m sure you’re a big softy
@@raeiqmusachi haha thanks for sharing your side of the journey ! 👏🏼
I spit soda on my screen laughing at the Wilhelm scream scene.
@@DylanODonnellhe's right you should do more of this, amazing!
There is no better way to understand something with laughter. Thank you Dylan.
Thx legend :)
Dylan calmly explaining in the beginning why we should have intercourse is all I need to enjoy a video.
for us that grew up before the interwebs, much love to the diffraction spikes! That is what we saw in every image of stars back in the day. Here's to adding two thin strings to refractors to simulate those lovely spikes.
I have no problem with diffraction spikes, but I'm also not bothered by their absence; it's a neat quirky detail that gives you a bit of insight into the telescope that shot an image, but in my opinion does not otherwise enhance or worsen the image.
Now, the fact that my spike-generating reflector cost a third as much as an equivalent apochromatic refractor well, _that_ is something I do care about.
Cool demonstration with the wire and laser though!
What's lame is people that ADD diffraction spikes to images that don't have them to begin with. But the refractor breaking and killing someone? That was hilarious!
hehe yeh software diffraction spikes is next level cringe
+1
Yep! They look awful every time.
What's extra funny is that if the spikes aren't perfect, then it really, really looks bad. A reflector with a focuser tube that extends into the light path or mirror clips that cover a bit of the edge of the mirror make ugly, asymmetric fuzzy spikes, and if the opposite legs of a 4 legged spider aren't lined up right, you get 6 or 8 spikes that are janky and only slightly misaligned and just hurt the eye.
true!
bet your fun at partys
If you use a CNC forged spider all ugly Spikes are gone and you get pinpoint sharp spikes. You can also use these sharp spikes for focusing.
LOL - that's why I didn't buy a RASA yet or hyperstar. Incredible difficult to get rid of those nasty spikes. Then again. Who cares. Its f/2. :)
"I pointed my telescope at the sky for 20 seconds and this is what I saw" 💀😂 Brilliant burn! +Music😅
Hehe
The swiping your finger across the cell phone camera lens to make a spike is cool. Now I know how to scold my crews that set up booths and take epicures with a dirty cell phone lens.
Another great video Dylan! Love your take on this and your image of Fomalhaut is awesome!
Always a good day when you upload a video Dylan! Thanks for the info and the laughs mate! And as a newtonian telescope owner nya nya nya :D
But seriously the first time I looked at JWST images I went "WTF are those!!" But that thing does do amazing science so we'll pretend it's cool. Do you think the designers knew the spikes were going to be huge and 6 in number and went nahh everyone will think it's cool :P
Thx Zigs! Oh they definitely knew .. it’s a fair trade though for that light gathering power!
Interesting video! And I love that you made fun of the "I pointed my telescope at the sky" , its so cringe that almost everyone uses that sentence.. big thumbs up!
Super loved this video Dylan. Thanks mate!
Now I gotta go spike my Esprit 120ED refractor! Love how you can turn a topic like this into entertainment. Keep it up! Love your channel and get excited when it shows a new post. What’s next? Dust motes are art? 😂
Haha appreciate the view, thanks mate!
Very good meaningless content as always. Greetings from Argentina
Glad I've made things a little more meaningless for you :)
😂🤗@@DylanODonnell
Quality content per typical. I appreciate you keeping us astronerds supplied with stuff to watch. I have a 8” RC. I don’t have strong feelings about the spikes. They’re a defect, but they look cool. In a perfect world they wouldn’t exist.
What I appreciate about them is they give character to bright stars. Rather than brighter stars simply being more bloated they acquire longer spikes. I feel they portray the magnitude well as a sense of brightness can get lost in post processing. Plus it sets my RC images apart from my redcat 51. (Which stupidly also abbreviates to RC)
Dylan, please keep doing what you are doing the way you are doing it!
I actually like diffraction spikes and see them as a characteristic of the telescope taking the image. Some people go to extraordinary lengths to try and void them with all sorts of crazy additions to the traditional veins supporting the secondary. All of a sudden, Mewlon is cool again because of JWST. It was and will always be cool to me.
This channel needs more love. It's far better than all the astro-gear peddeling influencers.
Thanks Neil :)
Aw, we love your content and voice Dylan.
A precision comment for the ones who fell for it like me :
The diffraction spikes are not the big spikes on the sides, these are reflections of the laser on the surface of a cylinder.
The diffraction spikes are the far smaller ones inside the shadow of the cylinder, they make the shadow narrower.
Instant subscription - without even checking out your back catalog - caused by your ruthless nerdiness... Nice video!
Welcome to the party :)
Diffraction spikes have always looked pretty cool to me, but if you really want a realistic image than wanting to avoid them is totally reasonable. Love your vids man.
Thanks !
Some people make their struts curved to 'remove' the diffraction spikes. But all they're doing it spreading out the diffracted light across the whole image - reducing the contrast.
Brilliant, as always.
Great video Dylan 👏👏👏
This video made me not sure whether to love or hate diffraction spikes...
Excellent video!
Your best image yet, unlucky dude LMAO! and you forgot to mention my fav scope, a Newtonian! Its definitely a debate I have seen raged on and I loved the fact our own eyes do this to bright lights. Great work mate and clear skies to you.
Thanks Bloke !
You had me with the Wilhelm Scream!
Loved this one mate, cracking! :-D
Dylan, I thought I was the only one who was a big enough geek to ask my eye doctor for the image of the inside of my retina.
Heh I should let him know. I always ask for digital copies of all medical imaging !
Hey D, Good job, Laughs and info as you do. Well done.
Thanks Trev!
You deserve at least a million subscribers.
I would agree, this is an awesome video and one of your best. Thank you for sharing.
Cheers Wilfred !
My schools observatory uses a Meade LXD75, which has the 3 struts! I was really confused when we couldn't see the JWST spikes when I tested it a little while back. Now I know! Thanks!
Yo
I pointed my retina at your yotube video for 560 seconds and your youtube video is what I saw
Holy shit let’s go !
I like your approach to creating videos with a pinch of humor. This one however is one of my favs. Such an unexpected ending haha 🤣🤣😂😂
Haha thanks so much !
Great video. Love the Wilhelm scream :D
Hehe thx man
Check out the Pfund telescope. They use a large 45 degree flat mirror to direct light into the primary. You observe through a hole in the flat, at the focus of the primary. No secondary supports means no diffraction spikes.
Your sir are amazing and funny, i found this video highly compelling, clear spikes.
Thankyou sir !
Really fun vid. Enjoyed it immensely! 🐿🐿🐿
Thx 🐿️
Thank you
I'm not showing this video to my Newtonian as I typically do with your videos, but this was your most entertaining video so far. Spikes are great on the Pleiades IMO, but holy cow do they suck around Alnitak.
Usually your intro soundtrack does my neurodivergent head in….but just like you were forced to admit the spike truth…I have to say this is a damn great video, man. Well done 👍🏼
Haha thanks !
If you want to explain it, which I know you don't but I will anyway just because, I think they're pretty because they add extra information about just how bright a star in the image is that you wouldn't get quite so clearly without them.
The last image is beautiful and shows diffraction have their place in some images
Dylan, very well done!
Thanks Ray!
Diffraction spikes are real to all old people. From stars to oncoming car lights to bright spots on my computer screen. There are spikes everywhere. The older ya get the spikier everything is and eventually fades to a fuzziness of fuzz. everybody looks furry. I cant tell if I shaved by looking in a mirror. Someday it will all be black just like the universe
I just really liked the refractor killing the guy😂. Great science stuff too Dylan.
Dylan this was the best explanation of diffraction spikes I have ever seen! For a moment I thought I was watching one of those PBS channels LOL Well done mate! I don't like those diffraction spikes either and I don't understand why people modify a perfectly good telescope to create them 🤷♂? Thanks for the video and clear skies!
High praise ! Thanks !
@@DylanODonnell I forgot to mention that I am really looking forward to the images of the Giant Magellan Telescope which will be the biggest telescope on earth and NO DIFFRACTION SPIKES! 😁
loved the video~~~!!
Cheers Bradley !
can't stop watching this stuff...
“….for 20 seconds, this is what I saw.” Perfect piss take! 🤣 Keep up the good work. 👍🏻 Noddy
Hehe cheers Nod!
That was oddly informative and strangely humorous while simultaneously being very well done.
Thanks Keith!
My newtonian: Why is the man in the white coat saying my spikes are stupid?
Me: Don't listen to him, he's only jealous that you're special.
Heheh
I think starlink is still an issue. While diffraction spikes are annoying, they are ultimately unavoidable with the optics present. Satellite trails, on the other hand are avoidable. They also (at leas to my eyes) appear to at some points take up a larger area of the image than the diffraction spikes present.
Yep definitely not a spikes fan, great video mate
Informative and funny.
When you don't have tracking mount: "I POINTED MY TELESCOPE AT THE SKY FOR 1 SECOND AND THIS IS WHAT I SAW"
Hahaha I like it
Great video! One minor correction, though from a native New Jerseyan: High Point Scientific is based in New Jersey, not New York (and based in a particularly beautiful part of the state, nestled in the Appalachian Mountains. It may seem like a minor point, but there's a long history of New York taking credit for the good things that come from New Jersey. "Trenton Makes; the World Takes."
I noticed that too, but give him a break. Dylan's all the way down there in Wellington Bay, New Zealand. New Jersey is upside down from there, just like the Moon.
@@Microtonal_Cats HaHa!
I mean it’s in the ballpark isn’t it? 😂
Wonderful video explaining how something works that everybody knew already. Or did they? ;)
Loved this! And it made me laugh! :-)
Thanks James !
I love that you made fun of the "I pointed my telescope at..." statement. It just screams cringe every time I see a post titled in this manner.
Exelent keep it up
I had somebody that I am mentoring through the hobby ask me how he could artificially add diffraction spikes to his Apo. My response was about the same as your first 30 seconds.
Very educational I saw a video early on that the six point diffraction spike was from the James Webb too. Nice to know that’s not true!
Haha oh man software spikes. Instagram filter post processing.
SCT Gang 😤😤 As always, loved the delivery and video!
thanks man!
Maksutov Newtonian gang. Sct f ratios are cringe
@@Mandragara 🔪
@@Mandragara but that focal length tho 👀
@@theheavensdeclareastro Dat atmospheric blur limiting exposure time, forced use of lucky imaging and subsequent SNR impact :)
awesome
How to physically remove diffraction spikes by 3D-printing wierdly shaped spider support beams (or whatever those are called):
ruclips.net/video/ILd34isTl14/видео.htmlsi=PwA7klGGAn7rNz2A
Diffraction Spikes roll!!!
Diffraction Spikes make space look like a Christmas card.
There is an advantage to the Hubble and the JWST's diffraction spikes. They only appear on point objects which are almost always stars. So you can easily tell foreground stars from galaxies in the background with the same magnitude.
Excellent video Dylan, although I just blinded myself looking at the sun to observe its diffraction spikes.
I use to be a fan of Diffraction spikes myself! But A lot of Times those Spikes aren't even perfect in the image plane! Nice video man!
4:53 looks like Ginger Breadman Spikes to me 😂
I didn't know that................thanks mate
You timing on this topic is very interesting. I was just looking at the newest JWST images over the weekend and the Herbig-Haro image is rather humerous. the text says "Look for them at the center of the red diffraction spikes"... and to my eyes it was "If those large a** spikes were not in the way you could see stars forming"
Oh and also... my bahtinov mask used to create all kinds of spikes if I forgot to take it off :)
Lol exactly man
Visual Astronomers (to paraphrase The Treasure of the Sierra Madres): “Diffraction spikes! We don’t need no stinking diffraction spikes!”
To paraphrase Ozzy Man: Wonderful viddy you great big beautiful bastard.
Cheers mate !
I liked them when i started also. My first scope was a 10" dob. I quickly learned visual wasnt my thing and got an 80mm apo and an heq5 pro. Once i figure out why i only got the spikes in my dob, i modeled and printed a cap with fake struts that i could use when i wanted them.
Once the quality of my images improved, i liked the spikes much less and stopped using it.
That goofy cap i made got a bunch of downloads on thingiverse though. So, there must've been lot of people that went through the same phase.
Similar arc!
Hey Dylan. Love your videos, and i believe a while back, we said we would play a chess match, lol. I have a relatively quick question. So, there is a star that I want to capture. Its not overly impressive, but it is the second to last star in the tail of Draco. How can i image that star, make it really stand out and not have the rest of the stars overpower it?
I’ve actually thought about adding a thin braided cable (taped at 90° and 180° - crosshairs) on my CPC1100 to add the spikes!
It's fun!
I was thinking about buying a Newton but you changed my mind! 😂😂😂
Then it was all worth it.
😂 " your opinion is dumb and wrong"... no sugar coating it eh. Straight up stab. I think I'll use that line for starting out future conversations! 😮😂
Hah. Fair and balanced.
I use vintage telephoto lenses for imaging and the diffraction spikes from the iris ifbyou stop them down is oretty wild. Tend to use step down rings instead.
Still, nothing like imaging nebula with a £20 takumar lens from the 70's*
I just dont mention the £800 camera that took the actual picture.
step 1...spike punch...
step 2...spike telescope...
step 3...enjoy the rest of your evening 🙂
I admit that this is where, as a visual astronomer i think you're right. Stars through my 16" dob arent nearly as pleasing as through my esprit 100 (thats right, i do visual with an apo triplet...). Perfect orbs of happiness are more scientifically accurate.
It's astonishing to me how many people give much more love to space pix with diffraction spikes, including people who should know better (various APODs and IOTDs judged by other astrophotographers for instance.)
NASA probably loves them because they probably lead to more funding.
You can get screw-on filters for DSLRs (and SLRs) that add a star pattern to any point of light, like candles. They've existed for at least 50 years and are cheezy as fug. Used to be used in graduation photos, wedding photos, boudoir photography...Diffraction spikes remind me of that.
Agree! Total cringe
@@DylanODonnell Anthony Quintile won AB IOTD for M45 on Christmas last year. SO many spikes!
@@Microtonal_Cats proves your point really :)
@@DylanODonnell He made the connection a few minutes ago. I didn't notice, though maybe subconsciously inspired my meme. I do remember seeing it but saw it after Xmas and didn't consciously realize it was IOTD on Xmas.
How do you limit the diffraction spike from the cables on the RASA?
Spiralled cabling !
Looks like I'm going to have to get a gold ball for the Xmas tree this year and get the kids to squint.
Another great video! Sadly, I couldn't see anything after 5:20 because my eyes were dazzled by my cellphone light.
Lol
The problem is, whatever you do, you will always have diffraction. In a Cassegrain or a classic lens, you will have diffraction at the outer edge od the aperture. This does not produce spikes but distributes the artifacts into all directions, forming Airy discs. And there is nothing you can do about it. Even when using a graded aperture, diffraction would still occur and reduce contrast.
In my opinion, the best you can do is to minimize the total length of diffracting edges (and that's not what they're doing at the Giant Magellan Telescope).
I always wondered why stars were drawn like that!
When will you start your Standup Comedy tour? OK, I would not come to the other side of the world for that, but if you ever tour Europe, I might buy a ticket 😉
I dunno man.. sounds like a lotta work. ☺️
Ya I've never been one for defraction spikes. I like nice round pinpoint stars. Also why would I use a dob when a refractor produces a much much clearer and precise image.
Great! :D
Ah yes, the generic "i PoInTeD mY tELesCOpE aT tHe sKY aNd tHiS iS wHaT i sAw"
Gotta love the moment when lil billy takes a first glance through his walmart and actually only sees black and a few dots.
I do love the clean stars that a nice APO can produce but if you want fast optics with some reach then spikes are a fact of life. I sold all my refractors and now I'm a fast newt simp.
I glue diffraction spikes on my shoes every time I set up my scope. Haven’t slipped up a single session since.
Good tip
Now I get it. I went through the same thing. Except on a smaller scale. My scope is a zwo Seestar s50. My old 10” dob had spikes. lol So the tiny scope is not cheating me. It’s actually telling me the truth!
Google reads my mind. I was just looking at the spider of my newtonian wondering 🤔 if I could remove spikes somehow. Looked at the RUclips without searching and noticed this video. Spooky 😂
Google knows !
Diffraction spikes suck when you are doing astrophotography with an alt/az mounted telescope (e.g. a Dobsonian) because they get rotated due to field rotation.
see latest video for dob retort :)
I got a very thin transparent nylon wired of 2mm on the front of my refractor. And that makes my spikes very thin and small, no to big like JWST. I know its not real but it give some extras to my image, so long they are not too big.
Nice video by te way
Thanks Stefan
that was spiketacular