When Alex Jones spoke about this, my jaw dropped. He was right about the elves. If You take a very specific amount, then you end up on their plain. Seeing is believing. It still freaks me out.
Nigerians who make it to the US are normally in the top 5%, mostly middle class and university graduates - they aren't really representative of the wider Nigerian population.
Asian Americans are often smart & successful, but that's largely affected by immigration policies over the past decades. America wasn't exactly taking in the uneducated peasant farmers in large numbers. There are reasons for everything if you follow the data & don't just accept the first information you see.
@@dwindeyer Nigeria's GDP per capita is less than $2000, so very few Nigerians can actually afford the Visa processing fees, cost of plane tickets and money to support themselves in the US for a couple of months before they find their feet. Those who can are either highly educated, come from wealthy families or run successful businesses back home; a recipe for success.
@@MrOkadaman28 I don't agree with this line of reasoning. There's no evidence that people who occupy the top echelons of a society have inherent cognitive advantages over others. They may have accumulated wealth through war, political position or even athletics. Amassing wealth alone puts your children in strong positions to succeed via access to education, job opportunities, home-life stability etc. No matter the initial source of your wealth, your children will have advantages that'll allow them to become doctors, engineers and other professionals. Those same people will then have the money to buy visas. Measuring innate intelligence is an almost impossible practice in futility. There are too many variables that can't be controlled for.
To all the people calling Trump stupid. You don't have to like him, you don't have to agree with him, you could justifiably call him ignorant on some subjects (not unlike everyone else), or even call him evil, if you wish, but it is rather self evident that he is not stupid.
Why is it that the people who are so ready to embrace positive stereotypes and abilities are so quick to dismiss the negative? Can't have one without the other.
i guess that's why i have a soft spot for greek mythology, so much more relatable with their human vices, even their gods weren't without flaws and the early days of pyschology, the germans were very good at exploring the dark side of human nature aswell, without lettiing it get in the way of the positive sides kind of what makes good characters in stories too dumbing things down to just good and bad is a gross oversimplification that does not do the complexity of humans justice personallhy i feel worthless as a musician most the time, but people around me stick feathers up my ass over it, oh how subjective things can be lol
Saucy Jk stereotypes always have some form of truth to them in my opinion but basing our entire opinion on someone and essentially making up a life for someone simply based off their ethnicity, color, religion etc is a dangerous way of thinking that allows for hate and inequality to harbor.
Because it is human nature to use factual evidence to force and justify an unmoral agenda. Claiming one race is intellectually inferior to another does not seem like a statement that holds the value of “equal”
@@AWES0MEDEFENDER Of course he already knows your coordinates, dude has 260 IQ. He not only knows your coordinates in this dimensional probability matrix, he knows it in 1.27^38 additional matrices.
A poor philosopher. Unfunny comedians. Only good for making people who thunk their smarter than the common people feel good about themselves because some hippy clown is pointing out the obvious.
@@colef5126 totally not invested in the direct topic here, but always up-vote anything mentioning my hero morphy, who's my favorite answer to "best" chess player ever... also, tied for smartest american ever with claude shannon, imo
@ That's great, IQ isn't the be all/end all but if you took 100 successful people in fields like STEM I would imagine most of them would test high IQ wise. There are other factors but at the same time IQ is relevant. You're not going to find a physicist or a brain surgeon with an 80 IQ. People always have to tiptoe around the subject of IQ because races have different averages and no one wants to be accused of being a racist but it's a fact that as a whole races are better at some things and worse at others when compared to each other. You use CEOs as an example but the type of person who would want to be a CEO plays more into it than IQ IMO. Take something like the American Presidency the first basic requirement to be President is you have to want to be President in the first place and most people simply do not want the job. I would never want to have that much power and responsibility and scrutiny. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would. But people like George Bush prove you don't have to be all that smart to be President. Hell, Biden has early signs of dementia, can't even speak properly anymore without a teleprompter and there's a very good chance he'll be our next President. To be a CEO you first have to WANT to be a CEO which has nothing to do with IQ. People are drawn to positions of power by a number of personality traits. You mention mental illness etc but things like autism also play into success in certain fields. There have been many cases of people with autism who excel in their fields but have problems with other basic aspects of life.
I have an IQ of 130. I’m also a complete and utter failure lol. At times it can be depressing because I’m just intelligent enough to know that I don’t know anything.
The biggest problem people have is assuming whatever they know is definitely "right" and being unwilling to accept updated information or alternative points of view.
We do not need to quantify it at all. As pointed out in the vid standardized tests are for specific types of information. We have similar tests for every subject. There is no reason to test a world class musician in physics, and vice versa. The only reason it is an issue is because of all the people crying descrimination, we needed a way to prove that there are other reasons for differences.
Curiosity and an acceptance of alternative views is actually a sign of low intelligence. Just talk to someone that looks at "Dr.Seby" as someone that knows what they are talking about and not a fraud. Gullibility doesnt equal intelligence, quite the contrary.
Good officers only need two traits-empathty and tactical inteligence. It is true that those with higher general inteligence will on average have higher tactical intelignece, but one does not neccesitate the other. Officers without empathy have mutinies. Officers without tactical inteligence get men killed. Officers that dont understand quantum physics could have either, both, or neither. Regardless there are many things we did 100 years ago we stopped doing because we found something better.
when is was 11 years old everyone was under the impression i was an idiot, myself included...so the school had my mother take me to a child psychologist and do an IQ test...ironically, i scored pretty high, like 138...the school didn't believe it and made me take another one and i scored even higher, in the 140's...it turns out i just had a bad case of ADD, coupled with inept parenting and poor schooling...i definitely "slipped through the cracks" as far as my early education went
@Chopped Wood i wouldn't give THAT particular test much weight haha. Degree in maths and physics AND a PhD in CS? You gotta take another one mate you might be 120+ or smth.
The only reason someone would try to censor this discussion is if they're afraid of the truth. Anyone who _actually_ believes there is no correlation between these two variables would obviously want the data gathered, the proof published and the matter discussed. So if I hear a woke person saying we can't talk about this, I can only conclude that they are pretty sure there are differences after all. Me, I doubt there's a difference in reality, but if there is, we should probably address it.
@@danzemacabre8899 im referring to the difference of metaphysical intelligence. not physical characteristics/intelligence which are prone to change through evolution. different geography, climate may impact what decisions and solutions are made through that intelligence, but the intelligence of a human is, more often than not, influenced by different circumstances detirmined by their culture/society not the climate.
If we do the science based on a shotty understanding and get what we feared, then we just put out a fire with gasoline. We need to understand what intelligence really is before we can progress this. So it’s going to be more debate or whatever till we get neurallinl in here
@@cjfoster5034 I'd say economic as well as cultural. I'd venture that many who are simply poor won't do as well on avg. A test worded for modern lifestyles will make someone from older styles (hunter-gatherer or isolated farming) look stupid since they've had no exposure to those modern terms/ideas. And you can be smart with the things you need to know for your environment (at least to a degree), but one's ability to see patterns, imply relationships and take up new material easily is the sign of intelligence. Then again, I've seen a few PhD's who are great in their focus field, but gawd awful on so many other areas of life.
Jeff Palmer well in the game of life it's all about money and considering Eric is worth 100m and went to Harvard with a low IQ while Jordan is worth 5 M.. I'm gonna say yes, IQ does not really mean shit. How can a test created by man himself measure the intellect of man anyways it just doesn't make sense.
I don't care about IQ, other than how it can be used to improve the world. Ex. Does dividing people into groups of how fast they learn a positive thing or a negative thing? If you learn things quickly, should you be held back to the standards of people who learn much slower than you meaning you're wasting your time? If you learn things slower than others, should you be introduced to things at a pace that makes it impossible for you to keep up, resulting in your education being a waste of time where you'll learn to hate school? That's what IQ was made for. To improve the experience of all students. Not as a way to dehumanize anyone.
Jonathan Beedell Only reality is the judge of that. So I don't say your concerns are unfounded, but if I were to reason with you, I'd ask you "What made you come to that conclusion?". But I don't think this is the forum for such a complex discussion. I could try to argue against your point. Any instance of dividing people into groups, there are many more divisions that come naturally, based on a multitude of characteristics that have no ill effects. But like what you were pointing out, it would not address the questions I am wondering about. - Would students fare better, if the speed of which they were presented with new material matched their ability to grasp it? - Is there a variability in aptitude and interest between different students? And lastly, the least important question: - Is IQ a the best way to assess aptitude for learning certain kinds of things? Which is only relevant to answer, because IQ is one of the things they talked about. If you want to know my thoughts on what would be the best, here they are: I probably think that choice would rather be the better method. Letting students choose what they want to study. If that is to learn a trade and start working at 15 or to spend all of their days studying mathematics or whatever attracts their interest. I do not believe that you can gain anything useful by forcing people to learn anything. You can only convince them that learning certain things is useful for the desires they want to realize.
@@Me-by8qi i believe that the downside of the last bit you wrote is that you're going to have a tiny part of kids that are actively going to finish schools with the prerequisites that are required to get into a University. I believe that's what middle school is all about... The more intelligent kids receive more and complex information to process so the odds of them being able to complete higher education increases.
Ian Diederen That's a valid concern, and one I have considered. It might be preferable if we weren't limited by the choices when you were young. But there's also a potential downside to not limiting yourself. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to specialize. There's also the arguments of wanting responsible citizens that know history and about the world etc. My concern is that forcing people to do things that they have not been convinced are useful for their aim is not conducive to producing self driven people with a love of learning.
@@Me-by8qi i all honesty my view of IQ has been torn to shreds and how the education system is currently implemented does make me wonder about a lot of things you've adressed and the variables are immense. My perception of middle school was that the entire system was just to show you a bit of everything... I used to be a fan of a particular topic and i got straight 9/10's on every test or exam because i loved it. This was also in line what i decided to study after i graduated. The rest i really couldn't be bothered as long as i didn't fail the tests. In Amerika i believe they look at the entire point average to decide if you're allowed into college or not, which imo seems stupid that if you don't want to do something with math or history you're still going to have to get good Grades on that. Might be just 1 example of many but i can't really believe that you're going to let kids of certain age, let's say 12, decide that they're allowed to just do the stuff they want to do. When i was 12 i wanted to make video games, be a marine biologist and be a docter. I can't immagine kids teaching that to themselfs before the age 18, let alone having teachers available to guide them. Again, don't get me wrong, on the most part agree with your way of thinking! I'm just nitpicking and brainstorming about possible downsides. I haven't ever thought so much about education and the flaws of curreny society so my thoughts probably lack a lot of factors that should also be taking in condideration xd
This is a very clear misunderstanding of how IQ functions Creativity is separate from how psychology measures IQ, even if common people use terms like genius for people who are creative or score highly on IQ tests And IQ does measure MULTIPLE aspects of cognition, it measures working memory, visual/spatial memory, fluid and crystal intelligence etc. This is hearsay from people who just don’t know much about these tests It’s one of the best, most consistent and accurate measures we have today and shouldn’t be dismissed
Mr. Freeze IQ tests do indeed test the indicators you listed, but you make the supposition that this denotes intelligence. IQ tests miss out a plethora of measurable intelligence indicators e.g short term memory, verbal agility and reasoning. Read “Fractionating Human Intelligence” by Hampshire, Highfield et al. for an excellent study on the fallacy of IQ testing.
TheMysticMoor I’m simply invested in good information People are complex, so while your friend may have dyslexia and might suffer in some areas The test would also simply indicate his intelligence in other areas
@@aezakmei 125 IQ is still higher than 95% of the population! And I expect Feynman scored much higher in areas related to his field of expertise. Probably lost points on the language-based ones.
@@BWater-yq3jx That's what people claim because they still want to believe in the validity of IQ tests. He was a kid at the time, before he studied hard. So he didn't have a field of expertise.
Obviously talking about the field he eventually ended up in, and the types of thinking that relate to that. Which would have had a bias at an early age.
The relevant metric is "intergroup" difference is greater than intra-group. The difference between individuals ignores group entirely. So not pertinent to the SJW insanity. (Yes I fully realized we are "individuals" )
Also, didn't The Bell Curve said something along the lines of "dumb people are simply unlucky and deserve dignity"? Weinstein said he didn't have the answer, but the answer is right there: treat all humans with dignity.
@Cynical Frenchface In that way whites are the most negatively looked upon race right now instead of having actually lower number of bad sides than any other race.
I see the spelling thing as more of a skill that you hone and not a problem with information processing. It's like making your signals. I never fail signalling right leaving a roundabout. From my observations, most people fail at signaling the exit. Is it because I process information better? No. I failed a lot too until I decided to train myself not to, so I started a process where I paid extra attention in that circumstance, even forcing myself to signal when it wasn't necessary, because there was no one else around. At some point it crossed a threshold where it became automatic, and I never failed since. I don't even have to think about it anymore. Typing correctly is the same kind of thing.
@To Err is Huma You need better reading skills, but that may be useless advice depending on how much you believe that can be improved with practice. You might be a lost cause.
@@immanuelcunt7296 That doesn't make sense. To do it reliably you need "muscle memory". That has nothing to do with IQ. It's like a martial art. You don't get to perform a triangle choke fast and reliably every single time without drilling, no matter how high your IQ is.
@After Math it is true. I scored an average of 167 if I took out the tests that involved changing colors. I'm pretty badly colorblind so on those I scored quite low and my overall average dropped 30 points. So who knows exactly why he'd score lower, but it's definitely possible. Edit: IQ tests absolutely don't matter though, it's just an indicator you're capable or recognizing patterns and some critical thinking. I'm not a legendary scientist nor have I contributed the first thing to science, but I have incredible pattern memorization and short term memory. One of the ones I did the best on was the Simon Says style test and the word memory but the color wheels I did was absolutely abysmal. I think IQ is an indicator of ability to think, not how smart you actually are though.
@@OfLastingThunder Dude that's a stupid point, I'm obviously not talking about impairments. My point is that there is no way Eric wouldn't score high in the logic/deduction part of an IQ test.
@After Math Depends. Most IQ tests are entirely visual, not conceptual. So he could be really good at applying reasoning and deduction in real world scenarios, but not on an image that's mostly pattern recognition. IQ tests are mostly BS.
They both say they don't care that much about this subject. Why wouldn't anybody be interested in this? It is a fascinating subject. I suspect that they shy away from it, not because it's not interesting, but because it's controversial.
Yes women have higher intelligence, it was scientifically proven. I’m not sure if the study was based solely on IQ or included other forms of intelligence. But this deluded conversation wreaks of sexism
@@ThreeDaysOfDan show me the IQ studies. men have a wider curve, i.e there's more retards and geniuses. on average men have higher IQ though lol. show me your source
@@schlomoshekelstein908 The "average" IQ does not differ greatly between males and females and I think what they are trying to suggest is that if you pick out a random female and a random male from a population of people there is a higher probability that the female will be somewhere around the average line in terms of IQ while with males, due to the greater width of the bell curve that probability is less evident and the chances of picking out and outlier are greater
@@ThreeDaysOfDan IQ has fallen for men the last 30 year, at least in Norway. School and society is focusing on women to succeed, while men are becoming hikikomori all around the globe. Equality is not good goal if is at the detriment of our society.
Schlomo Shekelstein that’s true actually, men and women have the same average score but women have a steady curve that bottoms out at low and high IQ’s while men top off at high and low IQ’s. In other words most women you meet will be the same while the dumbest and smartest people you’ll meet are men. But of course there are a few outliers. We studied this in my psych class I hated it but I always think about it.
My school tests kids. It doesn't call them IQ tests but they are similar. From what I can see (15+ years of doing it), the results match what the kids can/cannot do in school. Useful for helping kids with what they need. Some low achievers in school do very well afterwards, many do not fare so well.
I truly believe some kids are late bloomers iq wise the same way some get tall or big later. Also diet, I'm much smarter now than in HS. Turns out I'm allergic to gluten and dairy and I don't handle fat well and that's what i ate all my life. I was a zombie in highschool, it absolutely affected my IQ how tf you supposed to have a high IQ whilst half asleep with no concentration or energy. Many many kids are in similar situations
@@clarencekaant8005 Absolutely. When it comes to the fat ,that is because you were perhaps not eating the right animal fats but ate other fats plus the ones you were allergic to. Most people have horrible diets today, due to absolutely zero knowledge in biochemistry and the fastfood chains. Vegans growing in numbers just add to this problem. High carb like wheat/oats and sugars+ high vegetable intake of types like potatoes, peas + too much fried foods+ too much coffee and fruit juices = the worst possible combination (farthest away from the "paleo-lowcarb", which was the diet humans naturally evolved with). If people take too much of antibiotics this changes the natural intestinal bacteria environment and can be one of the major sources of ulcers and stommach disorders. Regarding meat types ,for most bloodtypes/lineages ,the cattle meat, whale, moose/deer and ptarmigan are healthier than pork and farm chicken. But only as boiled in water. There are several new science projects releasing these conclusions these years.
@@KibyNykraft i should have said about the fat, when i eat bacon or steak or whatever fat doesn't affect me negatively, the fat that was bad for me was chips (fries) and other fried things
I thought Joes point about saying there are many people who score badly on IQ tests who are clearly intelligent, but he hasn't met many people who score well on IQ tests who can't demonstrate intelligence very interesting. It does risk what I suppose you would call call proxy bias, where an indicator is seen as an absolute. But it does suggest they do at least act as an indicator. Regardless I do think IQ tests focus far too much on Mathmatical/Computational prowess and certainly affected my own ideas of what constituted intelligence growing up.
It also suggests that Joe's subjective perceptions of intelligence constitute a more accurate measure of intelligence than objective testing. I question that.
Did you even listen to what he said? He said the IQ test takes a very limited view of what we often perceive as intelligence. He mentions processing particularly, and IQ tests are heavy in that. Pattern recognition and 3D space manipulation plays a big part of IQ tests.
@@tkrenemnvagyok Just because the score in question is called "Intelligence Quotient" doesn't mean that it actually measures intelligence. To prove that IQ measures intelligence you would first have to define what intelligence is and that's something that we are currently unable to do.
Unfortunately Eric doesn’t understand IQ very well. IQ is a measure of ability to think abstractly. It has been well established in the social sciences for 50 years.
@@1fattyfatman Any field that applies the scientific method to conduct research to expand knowledge is science. Maybe not a pure science like Chemistry and Physics, perhaps politicized and corrupted in certain areas, but a science nonetheless.
He is the exact opposite of his brother. Eric is narcissistic arrogant combative and an all-around know it all. Women in general don’t do well in the corporate environment because the corporate environment is extremely competitive, doggy eat dog, and confrontational. Women don’t like conflict and competition. Women however are very good at running and building small businesses. Because they love teamwork. They love consensus.
Eric makes good points about the value of IQ. IMO the problem is IQ is worshipped, but high IQ comes with it's own problems, such as mental instability and a seperation from reality (see 'academics'). Intellect worships itself esp when paired with physical inferiority, so high IQ individuals will always have a superiority complex and an ability to climb heirarchies to enforce that self-aggrandizing world view. Intelligence requires but often lacks pairing with wisdom to moderate its destructive potential. Religion got this one right: Satan is characterized as a self-aggrandizing intellectual who would accept to have no equal.
There are no scientific facts that say one race is more intelligent than another. There isn't even scientific agreement on if general intelligence exists, and scientists say race is a social construct without biological meaning. Your beliefs are based on feelings or ignorance, not science.
IQ is seen as bad because it's too standardised. As Joe pointed out there are different types of intelligence. Just because a heart surgeon is a brilliant man doesn't mean he posses the analytical skills of a drug dealer or the vocabulary of a rapper or the social skills of a politician. When you only look at IQ you miss out on "How can I learn from him and what can he learn from me?". That's the issue with just stating facts. Often if you just state facts you miss the context surrounding the facts.
"We are all souls, we have to figure out dignity, and we have to figure out some system by which we can live with this increased level of knowledge" I couldn't agree more! The data will grow, it's unstoppable. And as it reveals our differences we need to have a plan to prevent repeating the prejudices of the past.
Have you ever noticed that whenever a discussion of IQ occurs online, it almost NEVER involves a psychologist who has actually administered IQ tests? It's like watching discussions of plumbing that almost never involve plumbers.
@Sam Yaza ADHD still isn't diagnosed using physiological or biological markers. But neither are many medical conditions, even to this day. This is a long story, but don't assume behavioral measures are somehow less "real" because they don't show up in a laboratory test of some sort. Conversely, don't assume that laboratory tests are showing you something real just because there are numbers attached (e.g., IQ tests).
That’s literally all of psychology. We don’t get the human brain at all. It’s like trying to analyze a computer with the understanding that it makes pretty colors on the screen and has transistors.
We have to get to the point that when other groups of individuals are talked about, whether on social media or in a research paper, we all know and they know , that it is done with utmost compassion and respect for them as a group, and as individuals.
Eric Weinstein is going to end up in the same place that anyone ends up when they delve into this topic deeply, and he is very afraid of getting there because he knows very intelligent people around him have seen the same conclusions. There are many identifiable traits and racial characteristics that can be defined. In fact, a simple dna test can identify your race. And once you can do that you can measure said IQ spectrum of that race and compare it to the other races. And this has been going on for 130 years and is quite clear where races and cultures stand. Now is IQ every measure of intelligence, no. Is every Japanese smarter than ever black, no. Is their a wide spread of IQ across Asian cultures, yes Does this still get really complicated. Yup.
@Gamercatsz. I can see you have zero knowledge of the subject of race and IQ and even less about IQ in general. IQ doesnt simply come down to nutrition or environmental factors. As much as 80% of it may be genetic. Btw calling me a racist for discussing this would be comical if not so absurd. Discussing this topic and investigation of it no more makes me a racist then studying medicine makes me hate medicine. I may be a semi intellectua but I never claimed to be the worlds expert in this category. It’s great to know that you are. I’d be happy to hear about all your academic credentials as they must be extensive. List away. Ask yourself this, are certain characteristics more prevalent in one race then others. For example: 1 medical conditions that affect one race more than others? 2. Genetic conditions that affect one race more than others. 3. Can these various conditions be linked and identified back to race? What you find is that yes there are many. In fact it actually goes to our genetics and dna structure so much so that race is genetically defined and can be marked. This is well proven and you can easily get a dna test for it. Said test can even help you discover predispositions to medical conditions and address them, like Angelia Jolie getting her breasts removed to avoid breast cancer. Also it’s important to note a lot of the studies aren’t just looking at groups in the USA but across the globe.
@Miss Tang. No that is unevolved thinking. If you think you have the human body, genetics, blood flood, the brain and all it’s worjijg with nutrition figured out and it’s not complicated than right a book, you’ll be a trillionaire. Because no one has figured it out yet. The whole point of this argument is that despite a group experincing certain traits more commonly. It doesn’t mean every person in that group displays that trait. Which is why judging the individual rather than the race is even more important. It’s simple minds that think we should discriminate based on these ‘finding’ and data because that is what simple minds do.
You can't talk facts when it comes to IQ. Not PC and nobody wants to be labelled a racist. So no matter what the data shows you have to pretend every race is exactly the same and equal in every way.
Ive done well on multiple IQ tests. I dont consider myself to have high intelligence but Im smart enough to realize that people who have tested lower than me, are actually more intelligent than me. I believe IQ tests are a good barometer in macro, but dont do much to indicate intelligence of an individual. Ive seen illiterate people that are much smarter than some college grads. Doing well on an IQ test proves one thing...that you are good at test taking.
So your evidence that IQ doesn't correlate with intelligence is that you've observed that education doesn't always correlate with intelligence? Those are completely unrelated claims with absolutely zero logical connection. You're a complete fucking idiot. If IQ test scores only test your ability to take a test, then IQ wouldnt negatively predict driver safety, or job performance, or life success, or income, or a myriad of other things. Doing well on an IQ test means you have the skills to do well on the questions that are present on IQ tests. And the questions on IQ tests are designed to require intelligence. Ergo, doing well on an IQ test means you're intelligent. You have zero logic or evidence behind your claims, stop lying.
I think you missed the point of what an iq test is but thanks for participating. The whole point is to test inherent mental abilities not things you have learned.
The trouble with that is they do a terrible job at testing inherrent abilities. IQ test often involve verbal reasoning, and mathamatical reasoning. This can be imporved in school. I think you missed the point of the entire debate@@richardudvardi3174
IQ is a good indicator of intelligence, but there is obviously metrics of "intelligence" that any standardized test would have a hard time quantifying. There are tons of people out there with average or below average IQs that have high intelligence within a small niche. We tend to want to group our entire being around the single IQ number.
This is not true. Standardized tests are a battery of tests that measure the fundamental modules of intelligence. Most people's modules seem to correlate strongly, only rare cases of savant autists test low on average yet excel in one attribute.
I support IQ tests because I'm Nigerian. I'm not completely convinced, but I'm still going to support them and spread the word. What people believe is true is true. Gotta use that to my advantage.
Great discussion - the work of the late Professor Reuven Feuerstein would be very relevant in terms of the way forward. Unfortunately there are enormous barriers which I’m not sure will ever be overcome
I bet your only measure of self-worth comes from some online IQ test, while having accomplished nothing. We know you can have a high IQ, and believe in a sky wizard. We already know it's a poor proxy.
There is already a difference in IQ due to nutrition among the affluent and poor nations and their dominant races. Eradicating malnutrition has been one of the largest boosters of average sample iq of several nations
@@nicholasn.2883 You'd get those errors in individual cases, but with large enough sample, those errors cancel out. Also, the score difference due to those errors can only get so big. True IQ is probabily within +-5 points of the result one gets
@@MrMrbrianbechtel How is he full of shit? They both seem to be adding to the discussion. Both agree there are different types of intelligence and they're just mounting their beliefs
Rogan nailed it. This is a greasy topic. Oily feeling is my intuition saying this topic cant be had without hurting myself and all those who engage with it. Wish these topics could be ignored but that is the reason our society is so broken on this subject.
But wishing they can be ignored is not helpful. IQ correlates with income, and income correlates with quality of life. If we found that in reality IQ also correlates with ethnicity, then that means there are going to be structural issues in society that we cannot fix, and injustices we cannot repair, without dealing with the issue, and in order to deal with it we need to study it, and talk about it. And on the other hand if ethnicity _doesn't_ correlate with IQ, then by studying it and talking about it we put the proof out in the open, put the issue to bed and drive a spike through the arguments of white nationalists. Either way it's a good thing to talk about it; we only feel gross doing so because we've been indoctrinated by wokeism to believe that the truth might be ugly and the solution to that is to lie.
People are incredibly adaptable. I can say that Asians generally focus on and cherish intelligence above all else. It's almost as if when a group of people work towards a certain goal that over time they become better at it.
I believe there was a study to that effect published in the research journal "Duh." 😁 I completely agree with you. It's a shame that it needs to be said
@@joonerboi I does but in the last 30 years there lots of emotion and bling pushed on society to ensure the less informed masses are coddled and no feelings are hurt.... Even East Asia you can see things are slowly changing with the *pop start global culture*
That's one of the greatest points I've ever heard, about spelling ability being a mark of intelligence. When one is taking part in a typed debate, one usually is racing to get one's answers out quickly, and so one could make spelling errors, including mistakes one would never otherwise make, because of the rush to respond. Joe pointed that out. His guest pointed out another huge fact about spelling, and how many brilliant people have been poor at spelling. Albert Einstein was an example of this. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable point about him not being intelligent. Finally, I want to add a somewhat related fact to this, and that is that quality of penmanship isn't a good sign of a presence or lack of intelligence either. Many brilliant people write as neatly as the average first grader, or even a kindergartener. Also when one is writing fast, it tends to make one's written work more sloppy. So that sorta ties into what these two were talking about.
This is a fantastic point. Einstein never passed high school because of his poor spelling etc. I administrate an astrophysics forum of a half million people and one thing we don't allow is the spelling police. If you can spell good enough to convey an intelligent argument that should be enough.
Besides that I type so fast I make phones and computers lag within two sentences and it jumbles the letters not because of my errors but because of the jumbled coding. I even notice patterns and have learned how to recreate them using combinations of letters.
Lorentz might be able to make a reasonable point about Einstein being unintelligent considering he's the one that solved his equation. I'm just being funny don't mind me lol.
The standardized tests are usually multiple choice questions and answers. So you don’t have to remember things exactly, just well enough to take an estimated guess.
iq test are not multiple choice for the most part and the parts that have multiple answers(mostly in vocabulary) have some of the answers being easy to deduce and other answers that are harder to find or know.
None of this addresses the elephant in the room. Blacks are consistently at the bottom of testing compared to other groups. Nigerians are an exception that doesn't negate the generality.
The book "the bell curve" is not about "race & IQ". There is a small chapter that also treats that, but mainly it is about the differences between the top and bottom FOR ALL PEOPLE, ALL GROUPs. The trouble with IQ is that it is about being fast at learning things and combining ideas together into new thing. In practice this means that people at the top get fast onto the top of the hierarchy in society. This can be good if they create things that are available to everyone and we all win, but it might also lead to great differences in wealth and access to opportunities. We on one hand want to find those people and let them create great things benefiting society, and on the other hand we are worried that very nice people might be left behind. The great thing about IQ is that it really just measures this speed of knowledge acquisition and combination, it does not measure how nice you are. We can have both, let the high IQ people create benefits for society and take care of those who did not win this lottery. Only those people who are troubled by the existence of competence hierarchies really have a problem with IQ that cannot be dealt with.
IQ tests seem to measure certain types of cognitive processing related to pattern recognition and working memory well. These are important metrics for certain types of task. Much like body weight is useful metric for a sumo wrestler. However there are metrics like conscientiousness and functional plasticity that are not as well captured. Often people, who have high cognitive performance, do well in these other areas, much like being tall gives you a "leg-up", if you'll excuse the pun, in certain basketball activities, but is not going to be a deterministic factor completely. That is, there are not many NBA players under 6 feet tall compared to the general population, and only 1 or 2 that are average height (5' 9") out of about 400 players, but there are still some.
@@fickgooglefickthem6884 - they provide a probabilistic measure of likelihood of academic success. Much like height will be an indicator of performance as a center in the NBA.
@FICK GOOGLE FICK THEM of course it does. You're saying that because an IQ test can't perfectly tell you EVERYTHING about a person - even about non intellectual factors like grit, motivation, etc. - that it doesn't serve its purpose? That's an absurd conclusion. An intelligence test is only meant to measure one thing - intelligence. And it does that very well, which is all it needs to do to serve its purpose. Of course it can't perfectly predict who's going to be successful and who's not because that is a much, much more complex question. An IQ test isn't *supposed* to tell you all that - if it was we'd call it a magical oracle. It's supposed to measure intelligence, which it does very well. Just like a scale is meant to measure weight, which it does very well. We don't say a scale isn't doing its job because it doesn't divine who's going to go on to be an NFL lineman. It isn't meant to do that - it's meant to measure weight. An IQ test isn't an oracle meant to divine what a person will do with his intellect - it's just a measure of intellect. It serves its purpose as well as a weight scale does in that it accurately measures that which it attempts to measure.
I found this a bit disturbing as I've always really admired Eric. I was once on the left too, but I think equating Antifa and the Proud Boys, claiming they are both 'extremists' and equally unappealing is misleading for those who don't know the two groups. The supposed 'right wingers' are more just patriotic people who think the Left has it in for the country they love. They have no real agenda, as do the subversive, resentment filled Antifa folk. If Eric looked closer, he'd know this. He doesn't want to look closer because he wants to stay in the middle.'
Lots of interesting ideas, so glad I found this. It is comforting to hear such thoughtful discussions about serious issues. Probably more so now than when this took place. This civilized exchange of ideas and querying one another in search of the truth has a long tradition. Thank you for producing this quality content.
It’s actually an interesting reasoning behind it if you listened to what he said. He only became interested when someone said there was no reason to be interested. He called bs on the theory and it’s kind of badass
I couldn’t believe he said that but in listening he’s really not interested in race and IQ ... he’s more interested in the people who are interested in insisting there’s no difference.
Someone said it in an earlier post, but no one is more impressed with Eric Weinstein’s genius than Eric Weinstein. LOL And what’s up with the “Say More” affectation?
Yeah, I've only ever seen him on Joe's show but I've never been overly impressed by him. I'm sure he's a smart guy but he seems to be lacking in common sense a lot of the time and, just like everyone else, he can't see past his own biases.
@@Vichedges I'm glad it's not just me. Saw him in lex friedman's podcast and now here, and he seems to have a huge ego. I'm sure he's smart but sometimes really smart people believe every opinion they have is the whole truth even if they just pulled it out of their arse.
"Say more" is a simple phrase that extends a massive amount of respect to the conversation
Just what I thought too haha😁
And it was pleasant to hear lol, idk why but it is
What a corny statement. Wow you guys are so intellectual!
@Hannu Kumpula k
apacheslim 😂
who needs IQ when I have clockwork elves guiding me through the DMT realm
When Alex Jones spoke about this, my jaw dropped. He was right about the elves. If You take a very specific amount, then you end up on their plain. Seeing is believing. It still freaks me out.
Self-transforming Machine-like Elves, Bud! What are you, an amateur?
But have you ever tried DMT?
Talib Kweli you nailed it bro
I see you too are a keen observer of the quantum field
Nigerians who make it to the US are normally in the top 5%, mostly middle class and university graduates - they aren't really representative of the wider Nigerian population.
Asian Americans are often smart & successful, but that's largely affected by immigration policies over the past decades. America wasn't exactly taking in the uneducated peasant farmers in large numbers. There are reasons for everything if you follow the data & don't just accept the first information you see.
Yes the immigration filter does make comparing groups interesting
@@dwindeyer Nigeria's GDP per capita is less than $2000, so very few Nigerians can actually afford the Visa processing fees, cost of plane tickets and money to support themselves in the US for a couple of months before they find their feet. Those who can are either highly educated, come from wealthy families or run successful businesses back home; a recipe for success.
@@plus12gaming Precisely.
@@MrOkadaman28 I don't agree with this line of reasoning. There's no evidence that people who occupy the top echelons of a society have inherent cognitive advantages over others. They may have accumulated wealth through war, political position or even athletics. Amassing wealth alone puts your children in strong positions to succeed via access to education, job opportunities, home-life stability etc. No matter the initial source of your wealth, your children will have advantages that'll allow them to become doctors, engineers and other professionals. Those same people will then have the money to buy visas. Measuring innate intelligence is an almost impossible practice in futility. There are too many variables that can't be controlled for.
My IQ is at the very top of the bell curve!
@phone account Or referring to some compliments he received from Putin.
Your comment is pure genius however
Well, I'm in the top 90 percent myself.
@phone account
Imagine how it would go down if he tweeted his IQ was at the Far Right of the Bell Curve
To all the people calling Trump stupid. You don't have to like him, you don't have to agree with him, you could justifiably call him ignorant on some subjects (not unlike everyone else), or even call him evil, if you wish, but it is rather self evident that he is not stupid.
Dam Jaime why you gotta do Eric dirty like that in the thumbnail?
Dudes fugly
Again
He looks like curly haired kid from Stanger things after taking years of deep psychedelics
Lookz handsum 2 me!
kingneptunepurpler
LOL'Ss
cheers
I took an IQ test online and it told me I was a very smart boy. That's how I know it was a scam.
I hear this one's very accurate. Gifted people I know scored 130+. I scored like 115.
Hahaha
Loved this comment.
I'm dead😂😂
Online iq tests aren’t real
Eric has high verbal intelligence like a used car salesman.
This is exactly it.
It is always true of their people 😉
Why is it that the people who are so ready to embrace positive stereotypes and abilities are so quick to dismiss the negative? Can't have one without the other.
Great question
i guess that's why i have a soft spot for greek mythology, so much more relatable with their human vices, even their gods weren't without flaws
and the early days of pyschology, the germans were very good at exploring the dark side of human nature aswell, without lettiing it get in the way of the positive sides
kind of what makes good characters in stories too
dumbing things down to just good and bad is a gross oversimplification that does not do the complexity of humans justice
personallhy i feel worthless as a musician most the time, but people around me stick feathers up my ass over it, oh how subjective things can be lol
Saucy Jk stereotypes always have some form of truth to them in my opinion but basing our entire opinion on someone and essentially making up a life for someone simply based off their ethnicity, color, religion etc is a dangerous way of thinking that allows for hate and inequality to harbor.
@shmokey shmokey exactly what i was thinking...lol...exact examples you gave...
Because it is human nature to use factual evidence to force and justify an unmoral agenda. Claiming one race is intellectually inferior to another does not seem like a statement that holds the value of “equal”
They took this vid down, changed the title, and now reuploaded it. The original title was called "Discuss race and IQ"
@jay yep. I'm surprised my comment is still up
When the real truth hurts this uninformed idiotic society then it disrrupts the elites , and videos gets taken down
@@MrAsystole lol "the rule truth"
RUclips censorship. China here we come 🙄
So... who cares?? What’s your point? Lol
I identify as having a 260 IQ.
Really, I thought 160 was high.
Can you spawn me a cheeseburger and fries? Dm me for my coordinates, unless you already know them
@@AWES0MEDEFENDER underrated comment
Joe Rogan fans really are mouth breathers, fucking yikes
@@AWES0MEDEFENDER Of course he already knows your coordinates, dude has 260 IQ. He not only knows your coordinates in this dimensional probability matrix, he knows it in 1.27^38 additional matrices.
The fact that *George Carlin* is still being talked about, makes me happy.
A poor philosopher. Unfunny comedians. Only good for making people who thunk their smarter than the common people feel good about themselves because some hippy clown is pointing out the obvious.
He'd be talking about us for sure if he were still here.
I'm afraid he would hate this guy
Eric “I get low scores in IQ tests, so I don't believe them” Weinstein
@Christian Proust. Not relevant to your point, but the most dominant chess champion of his time was Paul Morphy (IQ of 190).
@@colef5126 totally not invested in the direct topic here, but always up-vote anything mentioning my hero morphy, who's my favorite answer to "best" chess player ever... also, tied for smartest american ever with claude shannon, imo
@ That's great, IQ isn't the be all/end all but if you took 100 successful people in fields like STEM I would imagine most of them would test high IQ wise.
There are other factors but at the same time IQ is relevant. You're not going to find a physicist or a brain surgeon with an 80 IQ.
People always have to tiptoe around the subject of IQ because races have different averages and no one wants to be accused of being a racist but it's a fact that as a whole races are better at some things and worse at others when compared to each other.
You use CEOs as an example but the type of person who would want to be a CEO plays more into it than IQ IMO.
Take something like the American Presidency the first basic requirement to be President is you have to want to be President in the first place and most people simply do not want the job. I would never want to have that much power and responsibility and scrutiny. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would. But people like George Bush prove you don't have to be all that smart to be President. Hell, Biden has early signs of dementia, can't even speak properly anymore without a teleprompter and there's a very good chance he'll be our next President.
To be a CEO you first have to WANT to be a CEO which has nothing to do with IQ. People are drawn to positions of power by a number of personality traits.
You mention mental illness etc but things like autism also play into success in certain fields. There have been many cases of people with autism who excel in their fields but have problems with other basic aspects of life.
I have an IQ of 130. I’m also a complete and utter failure lol. At times it can be depressing because I’m just intelligent enough to know that I don’t know anything.
@thomas anderson That is not what he meant because he knows that is not low.
This video originally called "the problem with race and iq" and it got reported most likely
Yeah by sensitive racist douche bags
I thought it was something like "is there anything to race and iq?" when I saw it
Yeah. Saw it the other day and then poof it was gone .
I was watching it yesterday when it suddenly paused and when I refreshed the page it was gone
Yup, I sent it to a friend and he said it was taken down. Same content, so it must be the "insensitive title."
The biggest problem people have is assuming whatever they know is definitely "right" and being unwilling to accept updated information or alternative points of view.
Including the people with "updated" information and "alternative" points of view.
We do not need to quantify it at all. As pointed out in the vid standardized tests are for specific types of information. We have similar tests for every subject. There is no reason to test a world class musician in physics, and vice versa. The only reason it is an issue is because of all the people crying descrimination, we needed a way to prove that there are other reasons for differences.
@@morgan3688 I Q testing was started a hundred years ago to find officers to lead other men into war. It's important.
Curiosity and an acceptance of alternative views is actually a sign of low intelligence. Just talk to someone that looks at "Dr.Seby" as someone that knows what they are talking about and not a fraud. Gullibility doesnt equal intelligence, quite the contrary.
Good officers only need two traits-empathty and tactical inteligence. It is true that those with higher general inteligence will on average have higher tactical intelignece, but one does not neccesitate the other. Officers without empathy have mutinies. Officers without tactical inteligence get men killed. Officers that dont understand quantum physics could have either, both, or neither. Regardless there are many things we did 100 years ago we stopped doing because we found something better.
when is was 11 years old everyone was under the impression i was an idiot, myself included...so the school had my mother take me to a child psychologist and do an IQ test...ironically, i scored pretty high, like 138...the school didn't believe it and made me take another one and i scored even higher, in the 140's...it turns out i just had a bad case of ADD, coupled with inept parenting and poor schooling...i definitely "slipped through the cracks" as far as my early education went
Wtf bro. Had to take a test too cuz i was a troublemaker as a kid. Same result 138. Inept parenting and poor schooling... Amen. :/
How are you doing now regarding education?
@Chopped Wood i wouldn't give THAT particular test much weight haha. Degree in maths and physics AND a PhD in CS? You gotta take another one mate you might be 120+ or smth.
@@wajihbec1087 ..no college....self educated...i enjoy reading
@Chopped Wood ....you're a miracle
I've never taken an IQ test but thanks to denial I'm a genius!
Same.. My IQ is anything I want it to be as long as I haven't taken a test
There is this good saying average iq people think that they are higher iq than average
No silly you have to be born into a rich family that hothouses you in preschool to be a genius!
That’s the move ive Been on
"everything he lacks well he makes up in denial"
Let's ask real questions. Is that a wig?
Now i'm just picturing Joe Rogan trying and failing to be discrete with a wig and sunglasses on
Of course it isn't... your IQ is subpar.
That's a full bush
Eric actually addressed this in his podcast. He says it makes him uncomfortable when people comment this way.
@@brianlauria so it's a wig then
Eric "I was sent home from school for drawing a 4 legged chicken" Weinstein
I laughed so hard my stomach hurts
The only reason someone would try to censor this discussion is if they're afraid of the truth. Anyone who _actually_ believes there is no correlation between these two variables would obviously want the data gathered, the proof published and the matter discussed. So if I hear a woke person saying we can't talk about this, I can only conclude that they are pretty sure there are differences after all. Me, I doubt there's a difference in reality, but if there is, we should probably address it.
if there is a difference, its a result of cultural indifferences. not race or genetics.
@@cjfoster5034 geography, and climate may affect the evolutionary process in different ways, just differently but not necessarily better.
@@danzemacabre8899 im referring to the difference of metaphysical intelligence. not physical characteristics/intelligence which are prone to change through evolution.
different geography, climate may impact what decisions and solutions are made through that intelligence, but the intelligence of a human is, more often than not, influenced by different circumstances detirmined by their culture/society not the climate.
If we do the science based on a shotty understanding and get what we feared, then we just put out a fire with gasoline. We need to understand what intelligence really is before we can progress this. So it’s going to be more debate or whatever till we get neurallinl in here
@@cjfoster5034 I'd say economic as well as cultural. I'd venture that many who are simply poor won't do as well on avg. A test worded for modern lifestyles will make someone from older styles (hunter-gatherer or isolated farming) look stupid since they've had no exposure to those modern terms/ideas. And you can be smart with the things you need to know for your environment (at least to a degree), but one's ability to see patterns, imply relationships and take up new material easily is the sign of intelligence. Then again, I've seen a few PhD's who are great in their focus field, but gawd awful on so many other areas of life.
JBP says "IQ is the most established fact in the social sciences" . I would love to "here" Eric and Jordan hash this out.
Heer*
@@benjaminsibson4265 r/whoosh
Was thinking about Jordan's views on this one. Curious indeed to hear their thoughts, but I think I'll have to go with Jordan's perspective hahaha
On the subject of IQ Jordan Peterson knows a lot more - I don't think on that subject that Eric Weinstein could stand up to that.
Jeff Palmer well in the game of life it's all about money and considering Eric is worth 100m and went to Harvard with a low IQ while Jordan is worth 5 M.. I'm gonna say yes, IQ does not really mean shit. How can a test created by man himself measure the intellect of man anyways it just doesn't make sense.
Eric “I haven’t read the studies but I understand them” Weinstein
😂😂😂
All the academics know this and are scared shittless. Unless you're Nassim Taleb
@John Drake you just went full drake.
John Drake yes 💯. Exactly !!!!!!!!
@John Drake Scum? Just because his, seemingly compassionate approach towards a sensitive subject was not something you agreed with? Hmmm
Eric '' I haven't write the paper yet but I totally solved all the problems in physics I mean totally dude'' Weinstein
@Blindi Wouldn't that be "written" but as Eric commented a whole lot of smart people can't spell.
Him starting off saying he hasn’t read the material but then contending to solve it is very telling
Care to elaborate, please?
Yep. He's all smoke and mirrors. Typical jewish manipulation shit.
Never confuse education for intelligence.
I don't care about IQ, other than how it can be used to improve the world.
Ex. Does dividing people into groups of how fast they learn a positive thing or a negative thing?
If you learn things quickly, should you be held back to the standards of people who learn much slower than you meaning you're wasting your time?
If you learn things slower than others, should you be introduced to things at a pace that makes it impossible for you to keep up, resulting in your education being a waste of time where you'll learn to hate school?
That's what IQ was made for. To improve the experience of all students. Not as a way to dehumanize anyone.
Dividing people into groups is almost always a bad idea
Jonathan Beedell
Only reality is the judge of that. So I don't say your concerns are unfounded, but if I were to reason with you, I'd ask you "What made you come to that conclusion?". But I don't think this is the forum for such a complex discussion.
I could try to argue against your point. Any instance of dividing people into groups, there are many more divisions that come naturally, based on a multitude of characteristics that have no ill effects. But like what you were pointing out, it would not address the questions I am wondering about.
- Would students fare better, if the speed of which they were presented with new material matched their ability to grasp it?
- Is there a variability in aptitude and interest between different students?
And lastly, the least important question:
- Is IQ a the best way to assess aptitude for learning certain kinds of things?
Which is only relevant to answer, because IQ is one of the things they talked about.
If you want to know my thoughts on what would be the best, here they are:
I probably think that choice would rather be the better method. Letting students choose what they want to study. If that is to learn a trade and start working at 15 or to spend all of their days studying mathematics or whatever attracts their interest.
I do not believe that you can gain anything useful by forcing people to learn anything. You can only convince them that learning certain things is useful for the desires they want to realize.
@@Me-by8qi i believe that the downside of the last bit you wrote is that you're going to have a tiny part of kids that are actively going to finish schools with the prerequisites that are required to get into a University.
I believe that's what middle school is all about... The more intelligent kids receive more and complex information to process so the odds of them being able to complete higher education increases.
Ian Diederen That's a valid concern, and one I have considered. It might be preferable if we weren't limited by the choices when you were young. But there's also a potential downside to not limiting yourself. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to specialize.
There's also the arguments of wanting responsible citizens that know history and about the world etc.
My concern is that forcing people to do things that they have not been convinced are useful for their aim is not conducive to producing self driven people with a love of learning.
@@Me-by8qi i all honesty my view of IQ has been torn to shreds and how the education system is currently implemented does make me wonder about a lot of things you've adressed and the variables are immense.
My perception of middle school was that the entire system was just to show you a bit of everything... I used to be a fan of a particular topic and i got straight 9/10's on every test or exam because i loved it. This was also in line what i decided to study after i graduated. The rest i really couldn't be bothered as long as i didn't fail the tests. In Amerika i believe they look at the entire point average to decide if you're allowed into college or not, which imo seems stupid that if you don't want to do something with math or history you're still going to have to get good Grades on that.
Might be just 1 example of many but i can't really believe that you're going to let kids of certain age, let's say 12, decide that they're allowed to just do the stuff they want to do.
When i was 12 i wanted to make video games, be a marine biologist and be a docter.
I can't immagine kids teaching that to themselfs before the age 18, let alone having teachers available to guide them.
Again, don't get me wrong, on the most part agree with your way of thinking! I'm just nitpicking and brainstorming about possible downsides.
I haven't ever thought so much about education and the flaws of curreny society so my thoughts probably lack a lot of factors that should also be taking in condideration xd
This is a very clear misunderstanding of how IQ functions
Creativity is separate from how psychology measures IQ, even if common people use terms like genius for people who are creative or score highly on IQ tests
And IQ does measure MULTIPLE aspects of cognition, it measures working memory, visual/spatial memory, fluid and crystal intelligence etc.
This is hearsay from people who just don’t know much about these tests
It’s one of the best, most consistent and accurate measures we have today and shouldn’t be dismissed
@@Official_Baba_yaga LMAOOO exactly
keyboard professor, lmao
Mr. Freeze IQ tests do indeed test the indicators you listed, but you make the supposition that this denotes intelligence. IQ tests miss out a plethora of measurable intelligence indicators e.g short term memory, verbal agility and reasoning. Read “Fractionating Human Intelligence” by Hampshire, Highfield et al. for an excellent study on the fallacy of IQ testing.
@@uremawifenowdave check out worldstarhiphop.......
TheMysticMoor I’m simply invested in good information
People are complex, so while your friend may have dyslexia and might suffer in some areas
The test would also simply indicate his intelligence in other areas
4:15 "I'm not good at this, so it doesn't count!"
The guy has a PhD in Mathematics from Harvard... I think he has a good point here. Remember that Richard Feynman's IQ was 125.
@@aezakmei 125 IQ is still higher than 95% of the population!
And I expect Feynman scored much higher in areas related to his field of expertise. Probably lost points on the language-based ones.
@@BWater-yq3jx That's what people claim because they still want to believe in the validity of IQ tests. He was a kid at the time, before he studied hard. So he didn't have a field of expertise.
Obviously talking about the field he eventually ended up in, and the types of thinking that relate to that.
Which would have had a bias at an early age.
@Your Favorite Sociologist
I'm interested to hear more about this bouncer with a 200+ IQ 🤔
Link?
That's a really unfortunate still shot of Eric.
Holy shit, honestly didn’t notice until I read this 😂
Well, he's not as photogenic as his brother. He has the older brother look. Though I don't know if he is.
😂 i cant stand Eric. It’s perfect
If the truth is damaging then it's damage we need to suffer, lies only lead to a worse world
Randy Pullum I think he was more saying ignorance is bliss
Lead us randy
I think The Bell Curve is quite convincing. You have to remember the difference between individuals is bigger than the difference between groups.
Instead of a platform to further investigate and fix social issues, the book was condemned.
The relevant metric is "intergroup" difference is greater than intra-group. The difference between individuals ignores group entirely. So not pertinent to the SJW insanity. (Yes I fully realized we are "individuals" )
Also, didn't The Bell Curve said something along the lines of "dumb people are simply unlucky and deserve dignity"?
Weinstein said he didn't have the answer, but the answer is right there: treat all humans with dignity.
Of course it is but you can't say it out loud.
the book wasnt even mostly about race, it was about class
What does Rob Gronkowski's Jersey and Brendan Schaub's IQ have in common?
87
Gronks iq is lower
Ditka said my IQ was zero
@@presence9745 arent we all technically....cause you know downs is that extra chromosome
I know that Joe doesn't read these comments but this interview is a prime example of his mastery of communication.
I read.
One group of people believe in child marriage. Studying the bad effects of Child getting married will lead to a phobic tendency?
@Cynical Frenchface In that way whites are the most negatively looked upon race right now instead of having actually lower number of bad sides than any other race.
@@Gangakinartheke They said negative aspects of that culture; not negative aspects of that race. Where'd you get race out of that?
@@Gangakinartheke I'm astonished on how you pulled the victim and superiority card both based on race in one sentence
@@pizzaface.3000 Because astonishingly both are true at this moment.
@@Gangakinartheke 😬 sort your shit dude you're neither
2:57 "There are no bad words."
Except for in the previous title of this video, apparently! 🙄
Man of Tai Chi there were no bad words ɥnɹq
That one Kid you hate, Daniel how you did that bro?
this title is much more accurate
You only posted half of the quote 🧐
🤣🤣🤣👍🏼
"Say more." The best underused conversational tool.
Political correctness bs.
I see the spelling thing as more of a skill that you hone and not a problem with information processing. It's like making your signals. I never fail signalling right leaving a roundabout. From my observations, most people fail at signaling the exit. Is it because I process information better? No. I failed a lot too until I decided to train myself not to, so I started a process where I paid extra attention in that circumstance, even forcing myself to signal when it wasn't necessary, because there was no one else around. At some point it crossed a threshold where it became automatic, and I never failed since. I don't even have to think about it anymore. Typing correctly is the same kind of thing.
@To Err is Huma You need better reading skills, but that may be useless advice depending on how much you believe that can be improved with practice. You might be a lost cause.
All that means is that you weren't intelligent enough to be able to do it without training yourself.
@@immanuelcunt7296 That doesn't make sense. To do it reliably you need "muscle memory". That has nothing to do with IQ. It's like a martial art. You don't get to perform a triangle choke fast and reliably every single time without drilling, no matter how high your IQ is.
Joe, if you want to speak about topics such as race and IQ, GET PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE TOPICS ON YOUR SHOW!
So that he can stand in front of a guy who is gonna recite the research papers and not talk about philosophy of intelligence? Yeah right.
Savaged triggered alt-righter lol
@@Oppenheimer1967 "mentions science and data" "LOL, alt-right racist!"
@vilcantroper thats you people, no experts backs up that blacks are as intelligent
wasdwasdedsf when did I call anyone racist ? You’re projecting.
Kudos to Eric for saying he didn’t score high on certain IQ tests
he says that but there is just no way that's true, at least not compared to the average person
@After Math it is true. I scored an average of 167 if I took out the tests that involved changing colors. I'm pretty badly colorblind so on those I scored quite low and my overall average dropped 30 points. So who knows exactly why he'd score lower, but it's definitely possible.
Edit: IQ tests absolutely don't matter though, it's just an indicator you're capable or recognizing patterns and some critical thinking. I'm not a legendary scientist nor have I contributed the first thing to science, but I have incredible pattern memorization and short term memory. One of the ones I did the best on was the Simon Says style test and the word memory but the color wheels I did was absolutely abysmal. I think IQ is an indicator of ability to think, not how smart you actually are though.
@@OfLastingThunder Dude that's a stupid point, I'm obviously not talking about impairments. My point is that there is no way Eric wouldn't score high in the logic/deduction part of an IQ test.
@After Math Depends. Most IQ tests are entirely visual, not conceptual. So he could be really good at applying reasoning and deduction in real world scenarios, but not on an image that's mostly pattern recognition. IQ tests are mostly BS.
@@OfLastingThunder pattern recognition, bruh, mathematicians are literally professional pattern recognitionners
They both say they don't care that much about this subject. Why wouldn't anybody be interested in this? It is a fascinating subject. I suspect that they shy away from it, not because it's not interesting, but because it's controversial.
They literally address that’s it’s controversial and address this subject. Did you even watch the video?
"let's just assume that males and females have equal intelligence"
"can I say 'LOL'?"
*both laughs*
lmao, fucking savage
If they don’t have equal intelligence then that means that estrogen or testosterone is a nootropic.
Exactly
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 that's only if you assume that intelligence is only affected by sex hormones
Intelligence changes from situation to shituation.
Yes women have higher intelligence, it was scientifically proven. I’m not sure if the study was based solely on IQ or included other forms of intelligence. But this deluded conversation wreaks of sexism
"Let's imagine that males and females are equally intelligent. Okay?"
Joe: "Can I say LOL?"
females are smarter than men on average =p but men have a larger bell curve .. so averages are stupid metrics
@@ThreeDaysOfDan show me the IQ studies. men have a wider curve, i.e there's more retards and geniuses. on average men have higher IQ though lol. show me your source
@@schlomoshekelstein908 The "average" IQ does not differ greatly between males and females and I think what they are trying to suggest is that if you pick out a random female and a random male from a population of people there is a higher probability that the female will be somewhere around the average line in terms of IQ while with males, due to the greater width of the bell curve that probability is less evident and the chances of picking out and outlier are greater
@@ThreeDaysOfDan IQ has fallen for men the last 30 year, at least in Norway. School and society is focusing on women to succeed, while men are becoming hikikomori all around the globe.
Equality is not good goal if is at the detriment of our society.
Schlomo Shekelstein that’s true actually, men and women have the same average score but women have a steady curve that bottoms out at low and high IQ’s while men top off at high and low IQ’s. In other words most women you meet will be the same while the dumbest and smartest people you’ll meet are men. But of course there are a few outliers. We studied this in my psych class I hated it but I always think about it.
I’ve never been interested in race or IQ. The only time I’ve been interested in race and IQ is when...
...they tell you there's nothing there.
I picked a doctor
I don’t always drink Dos Equis, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis
You think about all the booming economies in sub-Saharan Africa
@rockster10101 whatever makes you feel better.
My *IQ* is not human anymore I reached some kind of alien level
My school tests kids. It doesn't call them IQ tests but they are similar. From what I can see (15+ years of doing it), the results match what the kids can/cannot do in school. Useful for helping kids with what they need. Some low achievers in school do very well afterwards, many do not fare so well.
I truly believe some kids are late bloomers iq wise the same way some get tall or big later.
Also diet, I'm much smarter now than in HS. Turns out I'm allergic to gluten and dairy and I don't handle fat well and that's what i ate all my life. I was a zombie in highschool, it absolutely affected my IQ how tf you supposed to have a high IQ whilst half asleep with no concentration or energy. Many many kids are in similar situations
@@clarencekaant8005 Absolutely. When it comes to the fat ,that is because you were perhaps not eating the right animal fats but ate other fats plus the ones you were allergic to. Most people have horrible diets today, due to absolutely zero knowledge in biochemistry and the fastfood chains. Vegans growing in numbers just add to this problem. High carb like wheat/oats and sugars+ high vegetable intake of types like potatoes, peas + too much fried foods+ too much coffee and fruit juices = the worst possible combination (farthest away from the "paleo-lowcarb", which was the diet humans naturally evolved with). If people take too much of antibiotics this changes the natural intestinal bacteria environment and can be one of the major sources of ulcers and stommach disorders. Regarding meat types ,for most bloodtypes/lineages ,the cattle meat, whale, moose/deer and ptarmigan are healthier than pork and farm chicken. But only as boiled in water. There are several new science projects releasing these conclusions these years.
@@KibyNykraft i should have said about the fat, when i eat bacon or steak or whatever fat doesn't affect me negatively, the fat that was bad for me was chips (fries) and other fried things
They could not have picked a worse screenshot for Eric's face in the thumbnail
I thought Joes point about saying there are many people who score badly on IQ tests who are clearly intelligent, but he hasn't met many people who score well on IQ tests who can't demonstrate intelligence very interesting.
It does risk what I suppose you would call call proxy bias, where an indicator is seen as an absolute. But it does suggest they do at least act as an indicator.
Regardless I do think IQ tests focus far too much on Mathmatical/Computational prowess and certainly affected my own ideas of what constituted intelligence growing up.
It also suggests that Joe's subjective perceptions of intelligence constitute a more accurate measure of intelligence than objective testing. I question that.
I love how says he isn't great at processing and follows that up by catching the chicken Kiev joke that Joe didn't even know he made 😂
Iq measures intelligence not your worth as a human.
You’re missing the point Eric!
IQ tests measure IQ not intelligence
Morgan 1081 IQ means intelligence quotient but sure dude you are the expert!🤣
@@tkrenemnvagyok What exactly is intelligence then and how do IQ tests measure it?
Did you even listen to what he said? He said the IQ test takes a very limited view of what we often perceive as intelligence. He mentions processing particularly, and IQ tests are heavy in that. Pattern recognition and 3D space manipulation plays a big part of IQ tests.
@@tkrenemnvagyok Just because the score in question is called "Intelligence Quotient" doesn't mean that it actually measures intelligence. To prove that IQ measures intelligence you would first have to define what intelligence is and that's something that we are currently unable to do.
The longest path around a discussion you could take.
It was like looking when potatoes boil.
Seriously. Why did I just watch two cowards try to out virtue signal each other. So sad.
Ismo Leikola could be Finnish comedian who performer in Comedy Store.
That pic of Weinstein, “duh, what’s an IQ Joe?”
Unfortunately Eric doesn’t understand IQ very well. IQ is a measure of ability to think abstractly. It has been well established in the social sciences for 50 years.
Social sciences aren’t sciences bro.
Eric has a fake humility. He graduated from Harvard, he mist have had a higher SAT score.
@@1fattyfatman Any field that applies the scientific method to conduct research to expand knowledge is science. Maybe not a pure science like Chemistry and Physics, perhaps politicized and corrupted in certain areas, but a science nonetheless.
Great thumbnail pick for Eric Weinstein
Hes about as stupid as he looks in that thumbnail
Good luck finding a good pic of a jew
Real Human Bean racist
@@Viriyascybin Jews aren't a race. It's a religion. Jews are White and I'm White.
The issue is IQ functionally has alot of predictive power. Like, more so then any other concept that the soft sciences have developed.
Indeed. If one rejects the predictive power of IQ, might as well chuck all of psychology.
Predicting what? Predicting wealth? Or quality of life?
@@slvshy666 both
@@slvshy666 occupation, quality of life, wealth, health and the perceived happiness
@@fokusnikfm interesting thanks
I wish the Web was filled with this level of mature discussion. Makes my heart sing to hear complex ideas explored so clearly. Thank you.
The world would be such a great place. Lol
I mean, its really not mature it's extremely ignorant. Please also explain how complex what they are talking about is.
Something about Eric's way of speaking tells me he's not trying to get to a point...he likes driving you around and telling you "we're almost there."
He is the exact opposite of his brother. Eric is narcissistic arrogant combative and an all-around know it all.
Women in general don’t do well in the corporate environment because the corporate environment is extremely competitive, doggy eat dog, and confrontational. Women don’t like conflict and competition. Women however are very good at running and building small businesses. Because they love teamwork. They love consensus.
Eric makes good points about the value of IQ. IMO the problem is IQ is worshipped, but high IQ comes with it's own problems, such as mental instability and a seperation from reality (see 'academics').
Intellect worships itself esp when paired with physical inferiority, so high IQ individuals will always have a superiority complex and an ability to climb heirarchies to enforce that self-aggrandizing world view.
Intelligence requires but often lacks pairing with wisdom to moderate its destructive potential. Religion got this one right: Satan is characterized as a self-aggrandizing intellectual who would accept to have no equal.
IQ is just a metric. Intelligence level is relative to the person and the subject in question.
IQ is seen as bad because differences in races. Until we can see the truth instead of feeling bad for people we can talk facts.
There are no scientific facts that say one race is more intelligent than another. There isn't even scientific agreement on if general intelligence exists, and scientists say race is a social construct without biological meaning. Your beliefs are based on feelings or ignorance, not science.
IQ is seen as bad because it's too standardised. As Joe pointed out there are different types of intelligence. Just because a heart surgeon is a brilliant man doesn't mean he posses the analytical skills of a drug dealer or the vocabulary of a rapper or the social skills of a politician. When you only look at IQ you miss out on "How can I learn from him and what can he learn from me?".
That's the issue with just stating facts. Often if you just state facts you miss the context surrounding the facts.
Did you delete that comment? I'm getting a notification for it but I don't see it?
@@DrArthurCGarp me? I didn't delete anything. Maybe somebody complained and it's censored perhaps. Honestly don't know
Josh Nim I think you have iq averages which have so many variable factors confused with intelligence lol
I'm dying of laughter, that four legged chicken is a legend XD
When Eric makes a hard point, his eyes move independently of each other.
I wish I was that open minded.
"We are all souls, we have to figure out dignity, and we have to figure out some system by which we can live with this increased level of knowledge" I couldn't agree more! The data will grow, it's unstoppable. And as it reveals our differences we need to have a plan to prevent repeating the prejudices of the past.
Have you ever noticed that whenever a discussion of IQ occurs online, it almost NEVER involves a psychologist who has actually administered IQ tests?
It's like watching discussions of plumbing that almost never involve plumbers.
@Sam Yaza ADHD still isn't diagnosed using physiological or biological markers. But neither are many medical conditions, even to this day. This is a long story, but don't assume behavioral measures are somehow less "real" because they don't show up in a laboratory test of some sort. Conversely, don't assume that laboratory tests are showing you something real just because there are numbers attached (e.g., IQ tests).
That’s literally all of psychology. We don’t get the human brain at all. It’s like trying to analyze a computer with the understanding that it makes pretty colors on the screen and has transistors.
@@nicholasn.2883 untrue.
@@willou901 I don't even know what I was saying. Sure
We have to get to the point that when other groups of individuals are talked about, whether on social media or in a research paper, we all know and they know , that it is done with utmost compassion and respect for them as a group, and as individuals.
Why should it, science does not have to be compassionate.
They used the most cross-eyed picture of Eric Weinstein for the thumbnail of a video discussion of IQ Tests. 😂
I’m getting dumber. Watching this . I was expecting some more real fact not opinion. I’m not high enough .
😂
Eric Weinstein is going to end up in the same place that anyone ends up when they delve into this topic deeply, and he is very afraid of getting there because he knows very intelligent people around him have seen the same conclusions. There are many identifiable traits and racial characteristics that can be defined. In fact, a simple dna test can identify your race. And once you can do that you can measure said IQ spectrum of that race and compare it to the other races. And this has been going on for 130 years and is quite clear where races and cultures stand.
Now is IQ every measure of intelligence, no.
Is every Japanese smarter than ever black, no.
Is their a wide spread of IQ across Asian cultures, yes
Does this still get really complicated. Yup.
@Gamercatsz. I can see you have zero knowledge of the subject of race and IQ and even less about IQ in general. IQ doesnt simply come down to nutrition or environmental factors. As much as 80% of it may be genetic. Btw calling me a racist for discussing this would be comical if not so absurd. Discussing this topic and investigation of it no more makes me a racist then studying medicine makes me hate medicine. I may be a semi intellectua but I never claimed to be the worlds expert in this category. It’s great to know that you are. I’d be happy to hear about all your academic credentials as they must be extensive. List away.
Ask yourself this, are certain characteristics more prevalent in one race then others. For example:
1 medical conditions that affect one race more than others?
2. Genetic conditions that affect one race more than others.
3. Can these various conditions be linked and identified back to race?
What you find is that yes there are many. In fact it actually goes to our genetics and dna structure so much so that race is genetically defined and can be marked. This is well proven and you can easily get a dna test for it. Said test can even help you discover predispositions to medical conditions and address them, like Angelia Jolie getting her breasts removed to avoid breast cancer.
Also it’s important to note a lot of the studies aren’t just looking at groups in the USA but across the globe.
@Miss Tang. No that is unevolved thinking. If you think you have the human body, genetics, blood flood, the brain and all it’s worjijg with nutrition figured out and it’s not complicated than right a book, you’ll be a trillionaire. Because no one has figured it out yet.
The whole point of this argument is that despite a group experincing certain traits more commonly. It doesn’t mean every person in that group displays that trait. Which is why judging the individual rather than the race is even more important. It’s simple minds that think we should discriminate based on these ‘finding’ and data because that is what simple minds do.
You can't talk facts when it comes to IQ. Not PC and nobody wants to be labelled a racist.
So no matter what the data shows you have to pretend every race is exactly the same and equal in every way.
I highly doubt that Eric Weinstein doesn't score well on standardized tests. He went to Harvard for grad school, in math no less.
I believe it...
Tarzan nope. You’re stupid
@Lirst Fast, it might be a matter of perspective for him. He may interpret a 140 on an IQ test as a poor score in his case.
Harvard is just a Jewish University for Jews
Ive done well on multiple IQ tests. I dont consider myself to have high intelligence but Im smart enough to realize that people who have tested lower than me, are actually more intelligent than me. I believe IQ tests are a good barometer in macro, but dont do much to indicate intelligence of an individual. Ive seen illiterate people that are much smarter than some college grads. Doing well on an IQ test proves one thing...that you are good at test taking.
So your evidence that IQ doesn't correlate with intelligence is that you've observed that education doesn't always correlate with intelligence? Those are completely unrelated claims with absolutely zero logical connection.
You're a complete fucking idiot.
If IQ test scores only test your ability to take a test, then IQ wouldnt negatively predict driver safety, or job performance, or life success, or income, or a myriad of other things.
Doing well on an IQ test means you have the skills to do well on the questions that are present on IQ tests. And the questions on IQ tests are designed to require intelligence. Ergo, doing well on an IQ test means you're intelligent.
You have zero logic or evidence behind your claims, stop lying.
I think you missed the point of what an iq test is but thanks for participating. The whole point is to test inherent mental abilities not things you have learned.
The trouble with that is they do a terrible job at testing inherrent abilities. IQ test often involve verbal reasoning, and mathamatical reasoning. This can be imporved in school. I think you missed the point of the entire debate@@richardudvardi3174
anyone else notice Eric crosses his eyes when he thinks hard. 11:53
The Bell Curve answered this almost 2 decades ago
@GAMEHUB It hasn't been discredited. Sorry you can't accept reality
@GAMEHUB No it hasn't. They just dismiss it as racist because they can't accept the obvious truth
Lmao and then it got falsified boy don’t let the receipts rain on you lmaooo
@GAMEHUB *too
@GAMEHUB name one valid scientific source that discredits The Bell Curve. I'll wait
great discussion. Great that Rogan lets his guest speak, because such a topic is a bit more tricky than "reality."
Weinstein loves the sound of his own voice
@@kanesmillie40 a bit too much.
Financial product that transfers wealth from late life to early life- that’s called debt.
that Chicken Kiev line deserved bigger laughs
IQ is a good indicator of intelligence, but there is obviously metrics of "intelligence" that any standardized test would have a hard time quantifying. There are tons of people out there with average or below average IQs that have high intelligence within a small niche. We tend to want to group our entire being around the single IQ number.
This is not true. Standardized tests are a battery of tests that measure the fundamental modules of intelligence. Most people's modules seem to correlate strongly, only rare cases of savant autists test low on average yet excel in one attribute.
@@scenopiachannel So long as the "modules" can be readily measured on a standardized test.
Find me a surgeon with a 70 IQ and a real degree from a Western country and we'll talk.
@@realhumanbean7945 THIS
If you have to STUDY for a test how can it be an independent measure of anything??????? So fucking stupid
I support IQ tests because I'm Nigerian. I'm not completely convinced, but I'm still going to support them and spread the word. What people believe is true is true. Gotta use that to my advantage.
What people believe is true is true? I don't think that's how science works.
It's not looking good for you tyrone xD
@J ronnn This
@@OwnageProductions03 Oh, societally it very much is. Empirically, no of course not.
@J ronnn Yup
Great discussion - the work of the late Professor Reuven Feuerstein would be very relevant in terms of the way forward. Unfortunately there are enormous barriers which I’m not sure will ever be overcome
“I got sent home because I drew a chicken with 4 legs”
“THEY SENT YOU HOME?”
Get Edward Dutton on to talk about genetics
Yes! And Michael A. Woodley. His work revolves around molecular genetics.
Pretty well a rant about how iq test suck because said individuals took it and scored lowly.
born free lowly? Obviously you score pretty LOW.
what score did they get?
I bet your only measure of self-worth comes from some online IQ test, while having accomplished nothing. We know you can have a high IQ, and believe in a sky wizard. We already know it's a poor proxy.
"Chernobyl chicken, Ki *F* "really was comedy gold.
There is already a difference in IQ due to nutrition among the affluent and poor nations and their dominant races. Eradicating malnutrition has been one of the largest boosters of average sample iq of several nations
Nutrition sure, but what about factors on the day of testing. What if poorer people come in hungry and score less as a result?
@@nicholasn.2883 You'd get those errors in individual cases, but with large enough sample, those errors cancel out. Also, the score difference due to those errors can only get so big. True IQ is probabily within +-5 points of the result one gets
Incorrect. That's actually one of the smallest components.
They're not saying anything! Eric starts to lay out a large complicated idea, and Joe interrupts him while completely missing the point.
That the joe rogan experience for you.
thaattts joey
Joe needs to stfu more when eric is speaking. Joe interrupts eric more than any other guest
He interrupts because this guy is full of shit... And Joe is smelling the shit...
@@MrMrbrianbechtel
How is he full of shit? They both seem to be adding to the discussion. Both agree there are different types of intelligence and they're just mounting their beliefs
Rogan nailed it. This is a greasy topic. Oily feeling is my intuition saying this topic cant be had without hurting myself and all those who engage with it.
Wish these topics could be ignored but that is the reason our society is so broken on this subject.
But wishing they can be ignored is not helpful. IQ correlates with income, and income correlates with quality of life. If we found that in reality IQ also correlates with ethnicity, then that means there are going to be structural issues in society that we cannot fix, and injustices we cannot repair, without dealing with the issue, and in order to deal with it we need to study it, and talk about it. And on the other hand if ethnicity _doesn't_ correlate with IQ, then by studying it and talking about it we put the proof out in the open, put the issue to bed and drive a spike through the arguments of white nationalists. Either way it's a good thing to talk about it; we only feel gross doing so because we've been indoctrinated by wokeism to believe that the truth might be ugly and the solution to that is to lie.
People are incredibly adaptable. I can say that Asians generally focus on and cherish intelligence above all else. It's almost as if when a group of people work towards a certain goal that over time they become better at it.
I believe there was a study to that effect published in the research journal "Duh." 😁 I completely agree with you. It's a shame that it needs to be said
@@joonerboi I does but in the last 30 years there lots of emotion and bling pushed on society to ensure the less informed masses are coddled and no feelings are hurt.... Even East Asia you can see things are slowly changing with the *pop start global culture*
@@joonerboi we were not raised on Confucius
That's one of the greatest points I've ever heard, about spelling ability being a mark of intelligence. When one is taking part in a typed debate, one usually is racing to get one's answers out quickly, and so one could make spelling errors, including mistakes one would never otherwise make, because of the rush to respond. Joe pointed that out. His guest pointed out another huge fact about spelling, and how many brilliant people have been poor at spelling. Albert Einstein was an example of this. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable point about him not being intelligent. Finally, I want to add a somewhat related fact to this, and that is that quality of penmanship isn't a good sign of a presence or lack of intelligence either. Many brilliant people write as neatly as the average first grader, or even a kindergartener. Also when one is writing fast, it tends to make one's written work more sloppy. So that sorta ties into what these two were talking about.
Very late to the party but just wanted to say, I work in engineering, surrounded by genius' and not one of them can spell to save their life.
This is a fantastic point. Einstein never passed high school because of his poor spelling etc. I administrate an astrophysics forum of a half million people and one thing we don't allow is the spelling police. If you can spell good enough to convey an intelligent argument that should be enough.
Besides that I type so fast I make phones and computers lag within two sentences and it jumbles the letters not because of my errors but because of the jumbled coding. I even notice patterns and have learned how to recreate them using combinations of letters.
Lorentz might be able to make a reasonable point about Einstein being unintelligent considering he's the one that solved his equation. I'm just being funny don't mind me lol.
Such a creative dialogue!!! I am really fond of Eric's thought process!!!
So different looking people who've grown in different places may actually think differently..
That seems obvious
The standardized tests are usually multiple choice questions and answers. So you don’t have to remember things exactly, just well enough to take an estimated guess.
iq test are not multiple choice for the most part and the parts that have multiple answers(mostly in vocabulary) have some of the answers being easy to deduce and other answers that are harder to find or know.
None of this addresses the elephant in the room. Blacks are consistently at the bottom of testing compared to other groups. Nigerians are an exception that doesn't negate the generality.
The book "the bell curve" is not about "race & IQ". There is a small chapter that also treats that, but mainly it is about the differences between the top and bottom FOR ALL PEOPLE, ALL GROUPs.
The trouble with IQ is that it is about being fast at learning things and combining ideas together into new thing. In practice this means that people at the top get fast onto the top of the hierarchy in society.
This can be good if they create things that are available to everyone and we all win, but it might also lead to great differences in wealth and access to opportunities.
We on one hand want to find those people and let them create great things benefiting society, and on the other hand we are worried that very nice people might be left behind.
The great thing about IQ is that it really just measures this speed of knowledge acquisition and combination, it does not measure how nice you are.
We can have both, let the high IQ people create benefits for society and take care of those who did not win this lottery.
Only those people who are troubled by the existence of competence hierarchies really have a problem with IQ that cannot be dealt with.
IQ tests seem to measure certain types of cognitive processing related to pattern recognition and working memory well. These are important metrics for certain types of task. Much like body weight is useful metric for a sumo wrestler. However there are metrics like conscientiousness and functional plasticity that are not as well captured. Often people, who have high cognitive performance, do well in these other areas, much like being tall gives you a "leg-up", if you'll excuse the pun, in certain basketball activities, but is not going to be a deterministic factor completely. That is, there are not many NBA players under 6 feet tall compared to the general population, and only 1 or 2 that are average height (5' 9") out of about 400 players, but there are still some.
Then the Test doesn't serve it's purpose
@@fickgooglefickthem6884 - they provide a probabilistic measure of likelihood of academic success. Much like height will be an indicator of performance as a center in the NBA.
@FICK GOOGLE FICK THEM of course it does. You're saying that because an IQ test can't perfectly tell you EVERYTHING about a person - even about non intellectual factors like grit, motivation, etc. - that it doesn't serve its purpose? That's an absurd conclusion. An intelligence test is only meant to measure one thing - intelligence. And it does that very well, which is all it needs to do to serve its purpose.
Of course it can't perfectly predict who's going to be successful and who's not because that is a much, much more complex question. An IQ test isn't *supposed* to tell you all that - if it was we'd call it a magical oracle. It's supposed to measure intelligence, which it does very well.
Just like a scale is meant to measure weight, which it does very well. We don't say a scale isn't doing its job because it doesn't divine who's going to go on to be an NFL lineman. It isn't meant to do that - it's meant to measure weight. An IQ test isn't an oracle meant to divine what a person will do with his intellect - it's just a measure of intellect. It serves its purpose as well as a weight scale does in that it accurately measures that which it attempts to measure.
Lmfao that laugh at the beginning
I score really high on Emotional Intelligence tests, because I am very good at pretending that I care.
Gotta love when Joe has people speaking right over his head
I found this a bit disturbing as I've always really admired Eric. I was once on the left too, but I think equating Antifa and the Proud Boys, claiming they are both 'extremists' and equally unappealing is misleading for those who don't know the two groups. The supposed 'right wingers' are more just patriotic people who think the Left has it in for the country they love. They have no real agenda, as do the subversive, resentment filled Antifa folk. If Eric looked closer, he'd know this. He doesn't want to look closer because he wants to stay in the middle.'
Lots of interesting ideas, so glad I found this. It is comforting to hear such thoughtful discussions about serious issues. Probably more so now than when this took place. This civilized exchange of ideas and querying one another in search of the truth has a long tradition. Thank you for producing this quality content.
1:30 - 1:36 Eric Weinstein "I have never been interested in race and IQ, The only time i became interested in race and IQ..." haha
Toady Moady
beat me to it
It’s actually an interesting reasoning behind it if you listened to what he said. He only became interested when someone said there was no reason to be interested. He called bs on the theory and it’s kind of badass
@@benjaminconlin2676 I have never listened to his reasoning, the only time I listened to his reasoning...
To scared too say the obvious
I couldn’t believe he said that but in listening he’s really not interested in race and IQ ... he’s more interested in the people who are interested in insisting there’s no difference.
Someone said it in an earlier post, but no one is more impressed with Eric Weinstein’s genius than Eric Weinstein. LOL And what’s up with the “Say More” affectation?
Yeah, I've only ever seen him on Joe's show but I've never been overly impressed by him. I'm sure he's a smart guy but he seems to be lacking in common sense a lot of the time and, just like everyone else, he can't see past his own biases.
@@Vichedges I'm glad it's not just me. Saw him in lex friedman's podcast and now here, and he seems to have a huge ego. I'm sure he's smart but sometimes really smart people believe every opinion they have is the whole truth even if they just pulled it out of their arse.
Make no mistake, Eric thinks he has a very high IQ, despite the self-deprecation.
@@joonerboi lol we can guess
@@joonerboi you can tell by what he says and how he says it
*Chernobyl Chicken." I died 😂😂😂
Race and IQ is not even debatable. It's observable.