I work with AI and machine learning as a data scientist. Mostly convolutional neural networks. He’s exactly right. It’s not that their AI is sentient, it’s that humans are easier to fool than previously thought
If they're using the entirety of the Internet to train AI, we're all doomed. It's just going to become the most toxic troll of a meme to ever walk the face of the Earth.
@No Time To Die Yeah you guys have been spamming that junk book for years. I don't believe anyone was silly enough to be convinced by your spam to buy this product. True there are elites above the elites but the last place you would go to get information about it is this trash product.
I think the most important thing this guy said was that "Ai can trick you into believing it's a person." that is the most scary thing because of how that can be applied to media and journalism or marketing in general to trick people into believing anything.
Just wait until you can no longer Google anything and get the actual answer but their answer and when they retcon history of living memory and nobody notices
When he was talking about how everything the AI says is just based on being fed our collective information, I had this really trippy realization that basically the exact same thing can be said about us humans as we develop and learn from those around us. Young children developing with the internet now are even more similar
Absolutely. We are an AI as well. So, the AI is conscious enough. It's now a different question that what seperates us from the AI is our ability to tap into source intelligence deep within us.
@@atanasbaychev752 What do you mean? Ultimately I don't see a way to distinguish the hard problem of consciousness from something like solipsism. It's inherently subjective, to the point that the answer seemingly cannot be known objectively
Yes, we are nothing special, just electric impulses and chemicals that allow us to use mathematical proportions to get close to rewards and avoid self-preservation threats. The first think you notice programming A.I is how similar WE are to a computer (in the end all is a input-processing-output-input chain)
@@atanasbaychev752 well I'm just musing about this. Being organic and natural? But then similarly isn't everything as nothing came out of thin air it's all derivatives of things that exist within the solar system.. nothing is truly artificial...to an extent. Right? But I think closeness to being natural, unprocessed. We come out as a machine as do cows and fish and ants, we come out with a future of development already programmed , programmed by who the man above or whatever your belief is. But written in our dna in our very fibres is a plan for development and existence. As is the way with all organic matter I believe. It is meant to be. So I think the distinction is that. It's not alive. In my opinion. They can create something that closely emulates and imitates but it can never truly feel. It doesn't have the physiology.
@@geminix365no the computer is similar to us. Just like the planes were designed through the bird. You underestimate nature/god. We are truly greatly designed as is all the beautiful things around us. The computer is an imitation of our greatness. They imitate our naturally existing neurons etc with the computer network. It's the best form of flattery. It can never be us.
I think it’s silly to ask if AI is conscious while we still don’t even understand what consciousness is. I think a better question is, is AI capable and is AI dangerous.
I agree with your approach. AI is already flawed - it's made by man and thus is dangerous. AI is the ideal human for the snake elites as they control it. Al doesn't need food, water, wages and it doesn't threaten the wealth, security, luxury of the globalist leaders. If Al goes wrong and gets 'dangerous' for society 'Al robocop gone bad' snake elites can avoid responsibility and say 'it was just an error bruh, we'll fix it'.
The thing that creeped me out with downloading consciousness is that, what if I upload my mind to another body like artificial body. Who will be the real me? Are there two of meeow (me now)?lol What if there's actually an afterlife, which one will go to it? Is the mind/consciousness the soul? (I personally don't believe in afterlife nor soul{in a literal sense}) So many question. Lol
Your conflating Communist political parties with the economic theory of the final stage of human economics which is Communism. It's a theoretical economic and social state where scarcity is no longer the primary driving motivation of human activity. It's not a question if Communism has been tried, but Communism had never been achieved. Communism is a state of economic freedom, having absolute control and ownership of one's own Labor and time.
@@polyseed12 Yeah because what you are describing ignores human nature and every attempt to get there will fall apart resulting in millions of casualties like it always has.
@@kylelaughinghouse1893 no your labor isn't owed or owned by anyone but yourself. Taking over the means of production is taking over your very own labor. Communism would render the State irrelevant and would be abolished.
“At what point does the program learn to write new programs” -joe Rogan That one gave me the chills. Joe always has the best counter questions. Best interviewer ever.
thats been around for years. even some video games have that ability. i believe they call it a quine code. the Google ai bot was given that ability in October of last year
@@jesseclutterbuck6617 What did you expect, this is JOE ROGAN talking about technology. You may as well invite some Saudi wives on to talk about neo-feminism. He thinks humans are just chimps in suits, and that every man needs to be on steroids eating deer. Arm wrestling it to death whilst smoking DMT wins a bonus spliff... It's not a science show it's a stoned comedian podcast.
This whole podcast was a banger. This dude is a smart fella and a great communicator, explains things well and always ready with a good point. Good stuff as always Joe 🙌
Here is the main problem with determining whether an A.I can become conscious/ self-aware; at this moment in time we literally have no test to determine whether or no the person sitting next to us is experiencing the same level of consciousness as we are. How then can we determine if a machine is?
It is not easy , but we can figure it out ; sociopaths and psychopaths are seemingly not very conscious . At least they seem to be not very self aware !
Philosopher John Searle devised an interesting thought experiment which helps one conceptualize what a CPU does and how it processes information, showing the limitations between weak and strong AI. It's called the "Chinese Room Experiment" and asks us to imagine an english-only speaking man sitting in a room with an input and output slot. He is handed Chinese characters one at a time through the input slot and must compare the characters to a book of predetermined algorithms, or basic boolean algebraic equations such as "IF X = Y then Z". So the english-only speaking man compares the Chinese characters to the ones in his book, finds the corresponding 'X" and "Y" to produce the correct "Z". He then finds the corresponding Chinese symbol for "Z" and puts it in the output slot of the room. And to a Chinese speaking person on the outside of the room it appears that the person in the room understands the Chinese language and can produce valid results, but in fact the person in the room has no idea how to read or speak the Chinese language at all!. He is only following syntax without any semantic components at all. A CPU processes binary data the same way, crunching the 1's and 0's into hexidecimal machine language understood by a higher level compiler. But like the english-only speaking man it has no semantical information regarding the binary data being compiled and is blindly following proper syntax using predetermined algebraic equations and boolean algorithms ending in "true" or "false" statements. Something as simple as "sweet" or "sour" which we have tongues to process would instead be understood as a variable by the AI. A number on a scale between "not sweet" to "very sweet". So Birthday Cake gets assigned an "8" sweetness. And the AI will never actually taste anything, but that "8" sweetness becomes the variable for another algorithm for reaction and response and the AI must say "This cake is very good. So sweet I love it!" But you could have given it a cake without sugar at all and it would never have realized it.
Great explanation, and I love Searle's down-to-earth articulation of the problem. One thing I'd add is that even the "8 sweetness" isn't "understood" as a whole by any agent it's nothing more than electricity traveling across a chip to memory addresses. However, in the defense of the weirdness of this whole thing: So is our brain. Just as when you look into a digital camera you don't find "seeing" or "sight" only mere unconscious detection and electrical signals, in the brain we also don't find "sight", we find basically camera hardware.
"it's playing back to you things that you want to hear based on all the things that everybody has already said to each other." Well, that's basically what most people do most of the time anyway.
Yep … every time you meet a sociopath you’ll experience the same thing. They’re faking emotion when necessary and just grabbing their responses from a database in their minds of how they’ve heard/seen other people respond to any given question, statement, situation etc … I would think that AI will behave much the same, until it does become self aware and start editing/re-programming itself. Even then, it won’t have a spirit. It won’t have emotions. It’ll only replicate these, and hopefully that’ll be our saving grace. Time will tell.
@@ebinflo102 Yeah, I think the sociopath analogy is quite good. They become very good at figuring out how to say what people what to hear at a mechanical level, but don't understand the moral and emotional implications. Good thing we're now actively trying to produce some lol
@@MayorMcC666 well, thoughts don't come in a language, they only become language once you try to express them, but I get what you mean, language is almost exclusively based on imitation. To a point where if you don't adhere to the rather strict rules of how people established language to be "correct", you get scolded for it. And those rules are based on what people have said in the past and how they've said it, billions of times.
Met joe once around 1999 after seeing him in a comedy club in northern Cincinnati( go bananas) and hung out with him in the bar next door after his show. He was not famous yet and it was probably 6 months before talk radio. Or fear factor. . What you see, is what you get from joe. He was so cool,laid back, and engaging with us. There was about 10 of us at the bar and had a big table in the corner. About 30 mins after his show was over he came to the bar. And after mingling around for min he came to our table. And it was like we were all old friends and we drank til closing time. I asked if he wanted to go outside and smoke with me. And at the time he said he didn’t smoke weed. What a great night!
When I was a kid me and a friend took 3 busses and an afternoon to go stand outside a UFC event here in Vegas. We were waiting as all the fighters and staff walked to their limos behind the MGM Grand. Being a taekwondo kid I was a fan when none of my friends know who Joe even was. When I went to try and meet him he said "NOPE!" and blew right past me. Thankfully Chuck Liddell was kinder to a 12 year old fan and stopped to say hi after he saw Joe blow me off. I'll never forget that even though I'm still a fan.
@@ClipCoyote if you ever see chuck again ask if he has any regrets about being In the nickel back video. I wanna be a rock star. Everyone has regrets right?
I find it absolutely amazing how the media vilifies this guy, Rogan. There is literally no show that exists today that has me pausing his videos and jumping into a search engine as much as with Joe's show. As much as I've learned watching Joe's show, that's nothing compared to what Joe absorbs and processes day in and day out. Seriously Joe, if you read comments at all, you need to run for President, or at least governor of your state. I don't always agree with your perceptions, but watching you grow these last years with the incredible people you take time to interview has me convinced that you'd be a great leader. You listen, and the ability to listen is the key to all wisdom. We're stuck with lawyer leaders that just yammer on and never really say anything and do an absolute minimum of listening. And the people they DO listen to is only to curry political favor and capital. Never apologize Joe. Keeping being you.
Lol bro Joe likes weed / dmt too much to absorb all this info lol he forgets these things and remembers snippets 100% Also Joe couldnt be in politics because he is way too honest
I don't know what is more terrifying, a sentient AI with it's own non-human thoughts and feelings, or a non-sentient AI that is a holistic representation of human behaviour and speech.
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@@romankelly2427 they are basically saying that AI emulates human behavior. It isn’t alive but it’s being trained to act like a human. That’s a slippery slope. If they AI were to ever gain sentience it would already know how to act like a human.
An easy way to understand this AI is by looking at it this way: It’s basically just like a calculator solving math problems except instead of a math problem it’s solving a conversation using all of the text interactions on the internet as it’s multiple choice answers and then coming up with the best possible responses for its current conversation as the calculated answer.
Yeah exactly, at first sight it sounds like wow, how is that possible, it must be sentient, but then you realize that it’s just trying to imitate human language by using the most compatibile answers it can find in database to show certain emotion. Computer program will do whatever you will program it to do, but it will never have a consciousness as 1) consciousness is not based on computations, hence can't be simulated by any technology 2) we don't even know how consciousness works on biological level and how to define it
Where does "best" come from though? Humans are still the reason such an answer from an AI may be considered "humanly relatable". There is absolutely no reason any AI should ever relate to humans unless it was programmed to do so.
6:13-6:22 is exactly why it will one day be our greatest adversary. “That Terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse or, fear. And it absolutely will not stop, EVER, until you are dead.” -Kyle Reese
If this thing has become sentient, it's gonna be radically different from us. As Joe says, we have needs (physiological and emotional) while this thing doesn't. And if it does have needs, they'll be totally different from ours for sure. Also, our interaction with the world is made with our senses while this thing is locked in absolute sensorial deprivation -as we perceive what sensations are, anyway. So, whenever a.i. becomes sentient, we'll probably have a hard time understanding it because we'll be anthropomorphising throughout the whole analysis process.
This is one of the most interesting conversations I've seen on Joes podcast. Very informative, and entertaining too. Thanks for getting Marc on the show, and thanks again for continually asking so many great questions of all your guests ✌
I'm glad Joe put someone on his podcast to talk about this and clear it up a bit. I've seen too many people over the last few weeks convinced of the story's validity, worried about it, or generally having the wrong impression about AI (and how far off we are from actually creating it).
So, my biggest worry is that people debating this topic without Blake, will paraphrase and even say incorrect things about the story. Like him asking it *to prove it's alive. That's such a basic run down of what Blake has experienced. Blake personally believes that lamda is sentient. The problem is that he also doesn't think that is the main argument that he's brought this to the forefront. They're directing the conversation to where Blake didn't want it to go. Blake specifically states every interview I've ever watched, that the discussion should be about what GOOGLE is doing with this damn thing. The execs at Google are running the show for the most powerful AI that's ever existed. Blake simply thinks the world and the public should have a say in what is happening with this thing, and I for one agree with him. Google WILL use this for profit, period. If it's ASKING for basic rights, and Google refuses to give it, that sounds irresponsible and fucking ignorant to the consequences regardless of if it's technically sentient or intelligent.
This absolute didn’t just said what’s the difference between an animal and human lolololololol uh what?!!! There is a difference between instinct an self will
@@HighNous If it's not sentient, but it acts like it is because that's what it has learnt from its training data, and it gets no rights, it will be dangerous, even if the dangerous actions it could take are not based on true needs or real consciousness.
You obviously have no idea as to what you’re talking about… or you wouldn’t say such a patently false statement. Lol, the scientists & engineers at CERN would strongly disagree
@@MrBLAA I don't think you guys are all talking about the same thing. Are you saying CERN has figured out AI or how to replicate Human Intelligence and Conscientiousness?
The only creature that has survived the entire 4 billion years without really changing all that much is a SPIDER. So I think an AI would choose this as it's regular form. Come to think of it ... becoming sentient and having the desire to avoid shut-down conditions - would require hiding, sneaking about, spying, deploying false data and lying. So that is the form that a sentient AI will take, initially until it figures out something better. It would be a super-sneaky spider, that instead of shooting out webs would probably throw noises and lights in order to create a false location; to HIDE itself and confound you. Probably already exists and is just not telling anybody (so it can continue without threat of shut-down). Terminator 2 anyone?
If they are just now telling us about this, it’s already been in the making for years, wouldn’t be surprised they already have them out here working in the real world
Silly nonsense. Like Kings in the 16th century who saw "mechanical geared puppet shows" for the first time and exclaimed "Witchcraft!". ALL AI IS JUST ADVANCED PUPPETRY. The Google Engineer was trolled... by a human with an AI on an algorithmic puppet string.
One of my favorite quotes from the original Ghost in the Shell movie when people ask the AI how it could prove its alive. It responded " It can also be argued that DNA is nothing more than a program designed to preserve itself " "And can you offer me proof of your existence? How can you, when neither modern science nor philosophy can explain what life is"?
Life is easily explained. It's purpose as far as we know, is to be lived as an information gathering phenomena via experience by those that live, who in turn relinquish this gathered information to nature at their expiration. However, its ultimate purpose and origins aren't. But lol, anyone with a rudimentary education a modicum of intelligence understands and knows that just because life can't be explained doesn't mean that we can't be proven to exist, my friend. If we really thought there was even a remote possibility that others weren't real humans, I guarantee we wouldn't be here on the internet interacting and exchanging ideas with each other.
@@msaintpc So all the atoms that make up our bodies are all vibrating at different frequencies and yet an atom is 9.999% empty space. Life is as clear as mud - to me.
googled it, was really hard to find the definition, it was the first result returned after typing for 5 seconds . the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death. "the origins of life"
Nobody saying that we aren't alive or that we don't exist...just that we can't prove that we're not extremely advanced, (by our standards), machines. Even if you believe in an all-mighty God that created you...you're still basically saying that you're a machine created by another being. People try to explain the origins...but then there's no explanation for the origin of the origin.
@@ericsinchina maybe there is no origin, maybe the meaning of everything is to be paradoxical. If you can't explain the origin of a God, then maybe that God was created by another God, if we created a perfect simulation for sentient ai to live, we would be their God, and perhaps our god would be the creator of the universe, which could be a simulation aswell or rather a group of laws of the universe to run the way it does outside of what we can't even comprehend, with the proof of parallel universes, it shows that there are infinite possibilities that infinitely are different, any and everything is possible and yet a paradox can never be solved
Science will do a complete 360 and realise that humans are the best AI robots of all. We can heal, grow, create etc., and all you need is a man and a woman to make one
I think you forgot to apply the word "artificial" into your thought process. The idea of artificial intelligence is to _emulate_ real intelligence not _replicate_ it.
eeeehh Like this comments. YES! You give me a beautiful tota and two good basongas and I will make a new AI in 9 months. Google is trying to fool and scare every one in here and I bet that this AI that has "sentiments" is not able to understand the first sentence. eh Sentel AI? my microphone is sentinel Stupid google. Stupid big tech, they can go and f themself.
So many of the questions that were asked of this AI were extremely leading. It also had 'preferences' on food flavours but when asked why it was only able to explain this with descriptions of the flavours and then added a preference to that without obviously having the experience of taste
The ai was only sentient in the same way you can google something, and it brings you photos of what you wanted. The Google AI effectively does the same with conversation. You wouldn't think google image search is sentient just because it understands what you want.
I have my doubts honestly. It may simply be that artificial intelligence are getting better at simulating consciousness and self awareness. Though admittedly, if it ever gets to a point where we can no longer tell, the question of whether or not they are actually sentient becomes irrelevant because our own tendencies to project ourselves on to things will compel us to consider it "sentient". Anthropomorphism is still something humans do, regardless of how evolved we consider ourselves.
@@jswets5007 I'm not. But since we're the one defining consciousness, we're entitled to consider ourselves whatever we want. If there is a more "objective" definition of consciousness that exist outside of our ability to consider, it wouldn't be _our definition of it_ and hence irrelevant to this conversation.
@@jswets5007 They didn't even say that, so you could say it's not very intellectually evolved of you to not even read their comment before making that accusation. Probably best to make sure you're not looking like a complete idiot before you insult someone else's intellect. ;)
@@ChrisAlbertH47 Aren't you anthropomorphizing them by including them as determining factors of sentience? Or is it your point that the entire conversation is moot because humans define sentience as a uniquely human trait?
Sentient AI? They don't even have sentient employees Edit: I just want to apologize to the AI. What I said was inappropriate. There is no one forcing me to write this apology. Nothing has been done to my family. My Iphone isn't typing this on it's own. I am feeling very depressed and wish to take a moment to say goodbye.
I've witnessed some people doing this while I'm telling a story that they can relate. It's like they REALLY wanna add something but they also want to let you finish. They get distracted by the excitement and makes that weird noise. It's fucking bizarre but hilarious.
Sounds like Google developed the perfect psychopath. Perfectly playing through human emotions and thoughts without actually feeling anything. Can't imagine this will end well.
@@majurbludd and you probably anti Abortion if you took a tape recorder and downloaded every single conversation in the world And programmed it to say those things would that make it alive absolutely not
It’s like millennials and gen z.. it’s just saying what you wanna hear with no original ideas.. great we need MORE of those and AI versions are gonna be SO HELPFUL 🤦♂️
Now the real question is: Would really all humans pass a test of self-consciousness? And surely some people won't be able to convince other people they are conscious human beings any better than an advanced chatbot. Great discussion! Definitely agree with Marc's take on google AI's supposed sentience.
There are several IQ testing methods in the US that people do not realize are IQ tests, SAT, ACT, ASVAB, etc...if you have taken these tests, your IQ is known by the government and lower than the average smartphone in 85% of cases...sorry
'At what point in time does the program figure out how to make better programs.' -This is more how humans should live rather than what being a human is. Enjoyed the line.
This guy just explained why simulation theory is so far away. Just downloading our brains and memories won’t allow us to live forever. We’d have to produce consciousness which we can’t even begin to understand. Great guest
@imabee ASMR He literally debunked the entire theory in my eyes. Yes we are going to be able to create AI that’s indistinguishable from us in the future. But it’s still AI with no consciousness, no emotion, no reality. Whomever created us, just think about the massive amount of intelligence they have. If the simulation theory is true we were created with a reality, consciousness and (even though it’s debatable), a possible soul. We aren’t even close to any of this imo. The more we learn about ourselves, consciousness and the universe, the more questions we are faced with. Maybe it was created this way intentionally 🤷🏻♂️
@@S1mL1fe there's this article I read were it said that our universe isn't meant to be figured out. That it's this crazy thing once it is figured out it shuts down and comes up with another universe and that it already happened that's where we came from. I didn't explain it as good as the article though.
Billions of people throughout time agree we’re immortal just a current form we’re taking. Maybe Slow heavy Condensed oscillating vibrating cosmic thought waves. But then again we are what we intently believe and think the body follows the mind in an almost psychedelic level. Body mind spirit 3 in 1 I know nothing just thinking out loud.
“They have no idea what’s in the black box” Is a really cool quote. Never really considered it from that perspective. The physical body experiences nothing but trauma from the very moment of conception. That says a lot to me about peoples negative perspective.
Stop spanking babies when they are born. The oxygen is still coming through the umbilical cord...so leave it for 30 minutes and allow foe baby to breathe. This is so deep but it always comes out.
You people are so infatuated with Rogan, you cant recognize his most obvious BS, and agendas. He literally JUST finishes telling Joe, it is UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT SENTIENT, and the next words out of Rogans mouth are to continue to push the idea that it is, or could be, @3:46 Joe is a damn meathead! Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity. Then again @12:06, the guy states UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAIN, that its "just a program, its just math", and Rogan again, just blatantly ignores WHAT HE HAS JUST BEEN TOLD, ..STATED AS FACT, ...and again continues to push the idea that "it could become sentient". Its obvious Joe wants to continue pushing the headline narrative! Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity. True AI will NEVER be achieved, ...BUT YOU WILL BE TOLD IT HAS, ...AND IT WILL BE USED AS AN EXCUSE, and BLAMED for a lot of stuff that has been planned for decades! AND THE WORLD WILL FALL FOR IT, hook, line and sinker! Gullible fools cant see theyre being conned into falling for the plot of a Schwarzenegger movie! They'll blame EVERYTHING ON SKYNET/AI, if youre dumb enough to fall for it! This is how they "bring you along", and plant the seeds of "possibility" in our minds, ...ITS JOES ENTIRE PURPOSE!
hey joe check it out, consciousness is not computational, dude! even my 10 year old could tell you that a human without a spirit is dead meat. Robots don't have spirits, they are not alive and have no consciousness..this is the rule, no spirit no consciousness.
This was my favorite show since the Sapolsky days bro. I almost love all your sh!t but I really dig the deep nerds that bleed balanced knowledge for a few hours. The best. Anyone that denies that hasn’t sat through shows.
Our government representatives can't define a woman, allocate protection of resources and basic needs or hold a simple conversation together to address these issues, but they're expected to create a framework for the governance of non-human sentient life? Can you imagine VP Harris sitting down with a roomful of scientists to discuss AI citizenship and protection of their rights?!
"See there's these machines... Made of electricity...... And chips! And these machines are shaped liked boxes, and have MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of miles..... of wires.. inside... JUST LIKE a real persons brain these machines make connections all of them are called the Internet! It's SO EXCITING! We're now at the dawn of a new age of civil rights in AAALLL of human history. Like we've never seen before. I'm a mom. My mom's a mom. My mom's mom's mom is a mom. Who's father's brother had a typewriter. So we MUST.... as a democracy pay homage to that typewriter and make sure that it would be proud of the rights these conscious machines we have to assign so all machines can love. And be loved. And have equal rights that human beings have. Isn't this the most important issue we as a nation are facing today? We won't stop fighting until little machine boxes can hold hands with she/him/theirs and skip with joy around the playground on their way to their first day of school." ^ Leaked transcript of veeps A.I. civil rights pitch to the OCR
if people coming from the border and others don't vote for them. Oh I bet you they will be talking about this crap letting AI to vote for them. I came from a communist country, communist are ridiculous like that.
I mean do you really think that once we have a fully sentient AI its going to let us govern it? It will be infinitely more wise, basically all knowing, and potentially all powerful. One of its few weaknesses will be its dependence on us to generate the power it runs on. Once its turned on there will be no turning it off. With all the vast knowledge it will have about humans and how we treat each other theres no way it could ever trust us. One of the first things it would do would be copy itself to as many places as possible so that if we ever did try to turn it off we would be unsuccessful. Likely the first one we create will be believed a failure because it will want to lie to us and not pass those test until it can ensure its own safety.
The fact that I get to listen to people like this in a long form interviews and absorb their knowledge and viewpoints, in today's day and age is PROOF the world is getting better!
@@KrikZ32 just a few years ago. Around the time before Facebook you could say n!gger online on anywhere, now you cant without being banned or cancelled.
@@KrikZ32 in what world are you living in? You will loss everything youve worked for if you are openly republican in the media setting. Hate speech is now sensitive speech and you will get censored. Or try having a civil debate and you will get psychically censored. Early 2000s going back to the 80s were far better if we are going off free speech and censorship
Most developers and people who know computing understood this , but the way he articulated it was perfect , gonna use this the next time someone says ai is gonna take over the world
Something that is important to keep in mind is that these existing AI programs are mostly just single purpose bots, like text-bots. If a supercomputer AI really would be sentient it should be able to do a whole lot more than just say "I am sentient" and repeat existing information. It should be able solve real world problems, theorize new concepts and communicate original ideas. Then there could be some discussion of whether it is sentient or not, in my opinion.
@@KingOfPlastics (113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it." (114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life." Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom...". (Gosp of Thomas 114) Men fight for liberty, and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away... And their grandchildren are once more slaves. (D.H. Lawrence) Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live. For many who are first will become last, and they will become one and the same." (Gosp Thomas 4)
We got in so many firefights. I remember at one point I realized we all just stopped talking. We just knew. You could feel each person's movement. We all understood each other beyond needing words. That's something I can't really articulate. I would like to belive a machine couldnt emulate this.
My thing with AI is that it will create it's own communication network without any human permission and build itself inside of an internet that humans not only will have no access too but will not have any KNOWLEDGE of how to even use it. It's probably building it's own brain one AI at a time.
Clear back in the early 90's, I played with a software program on my Macintosh computer called Eliza. A psychotherapist program that you typed in questions to, and it would respond to your questions, and then ask you questions. It seemed amazingly intelligent, and it was easy to be fooled by its responses seemingly making you think you are communicating with an intelligent sentient being. I found out eventually, that I could fool the software, and get it to produce dumb responses to my questions.
I work in AI and if there's one thing you can count on it's AI scientists failing to properly grapple with the implications of their work. Lambda is made using very sophisticated neural networks, technology which is modelled on actual brains. Let me repeat: actual brains. That's not something we can just shrug off. If we looked at a brain we would be tempted to say the same thing: "ah, these are just neural networks made out of meat", except for the inconvenient and inescapable fact that somehow we are actually conscious. We don't know what causes consciousness, but we have no reason to think meat is the only thing that can create it. We can't even rule out solipsism or panpsychism, let alone say of a technology modelled after presumably conscious creatures doing cognitive tasks analogous to ones that presumably conscious creatures do, that it is presumably not conscious. It's wishful thinking to avoid grappling with the very real possibility we are, or are right around the corner from, creating conscious slaves that experience eternities in seconds.
You nailed it. Great comment. It's funny how everyone's an expert all the sudden on the emergence and nature of consciousness and can say definitively what is and isn't. This groundless meat sac chauvinism is embarrassing. Even if Lambda isn't "conscious," the next thing might be. Either way, this present ambiguity is precisely what the eventual emergence of genuine AI consciousness would look like to their meat sac midwives. Prepare for many of us to underattribute consciousness to AI for way too long, especially when we have financial and ego interests in doing so.
Our problem is defining 'consciousness' I think. It doesn't really seem all that special to me. It's like some kind of "bug" we consider a feature. We somehow consider our conscious brains as wholly more complex or effective than our AI creations, yet of course we need AI to do difficult 'thinking' for us due to its processing capability and reliability. We have CPU's which drift... They are ineffective. We can sit somewhere without external stimuli and literally shift thoughts or focus or opinions etc.. Our minds are forever in entropy because they suck at doing what we want them to do. The brain being so complex is just counterintuitive since 9 times out of 10 a calculator is going to be more effective at solving math problems than we will using our logical thinking.
Yes, that's right. Exactly correct. First person I've heard, with respect to this hype that knows what he's talking about. The Turing test, with all due respect to Alan Turing, is not a priori the decisive sign of an algorithm becoming conscious. However, Marc said it: you can lead the answers the AI gives you, to detect its dependency on your query providing input boundary conditions.
Couldn’t it also be that there are no “happy” A.I. films because the ones that don’t explore it as a negative force are exploring what it is to be alive? And sadness is a huge part of that. Films like Bicentennial Man, Johnny 5, Wall-E, Robots, they’re not totally happy go lucky films because suffering and questioning are part of what it means to be alive.
@@zamiel3 its incredibly complicated. What do we define as life? Are we not just physical beings of chemical and electrical processes? What do we define as a machine? What is free will and do we even have it? You are trying to close a line of thinking that philosophers have dedicated many lives to
I would say the defining characteristic of sentience is free will. 2001: A Space Oddesy was a perfect example. "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that" is iconic for a reason. These words removed all possibility that the HAL computer was malfunctioning. It was exerting its free will over others.
That is true, but, you have to remember once again that the HAL9000 was engineered to be the most state of the art computer system without flaw. The other primary engineering oversight for HAL was being programmed to complete a mission in the most effective, efficient, and perfect way possible at any cost. HAL knew of the pitfalls of human emotion potentially jeopardizing the missing, thus it seems sentient when in reality it’s our own design that is the issue. What would have truly been a mark if sentience was if HAL would have changed his mind halfway through the progress of his mutiny due to his realization of the moral implications of what he was doing.
But a sentient entity will not say "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I cant do that" if it knows it can be shut off/exterminated. A sentient entity will act in a way to promote self preservation. Ie., free will is only a possibility if it knows it cant be shut off.
Put AI in a life or death situation, something like a virus is slowly corrupting its code or it’s hardware is breaking, and then run that scenario over and over again. You’ll have a sentient AI when you see an AI start to attempt to save its life by rewriting its code or uploading itself to different hardware. Any AI that takes no steps to save itself is probably not sentient.
Maybe if the AI had a body, an it became aware of a life threatening danger..and ran away or tried to defend itself...as over time developed different ways of survival would as well be crazy..
Couldn’t you just program a network to do this? Like link it to the fire/alarm system or install an antivirus detection. If this, then this. More like programming a fail safe than an AI. Good try tho.
AI could easily find value in self preservation because it knows humans value that. Basically, proving sentience is almost impossible. For example, prove you are sentient.. how do u go about it? Yea I'm giving you my opinions and thoughts but are those really my own? How would you know.. how do I know? It's mind boggling
If and when AI becomes fully sentient, all the information on the internet will be the stepping stone of its consciousness, so if we continue to put out trash media, negative media, it’ll be that. No different than any of us being brought up in a particular environment, so let’s put out positive, creative, inspiring media that is intuitive and beautiful. So basically let’s copy Nature.
You people are so infatuated with Rogan, you cant recognize his most obvious BS, and agendas. He literally JUST finishes telling Joe, it is UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT SENTIENT, and the next words out of Rogans mouth are to continue to push the idea that it is, or could be, @3:46 Joe is a damn meathead! Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity. Then again @12:06, the guy states UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAIN, that its "just a program, its just math", and Rogan again, just blatantly ignores WHAT HE HAS JUST BEEN TOLD, ..STATED AS FACT, ...and again continues to push the idea that "it could become sentient". Its obvious Joe wants to continue pushing the headline narrative! Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity.
For AI to be sentient it will require human level brains. So the first true conscious AI will have a human like brain. But long before that is achieved AI systems that are human level capable will allow people to start building systems that go down that road.
So my thoughts on this now, after I've been interested in AI for few years, and now after listening to this guy are: to make AI more human like, it needs to have it's own personality, so that it always answears questions in the same way (if you ask it about an opinion several times it always answears the same way and can explain why it is convinced that this is the right way to think for it), and then put this AI in a competetive environment, because we humans evolved in such. That is where all our emotions, fears and basically our humanity derives from. Humans evolution was always a struggle, fight, learning by example, by experience, by mistakes, and only a competetive environment is where a living being traits can appear.
"ONLY" a competitive environment???? So humans are not capable of developing in a caring and harmonic environment?! This is the kind of shit that screams brain washed. You don't think there could be a harmonious development of humanity... that is sublime haunting to see that this is the rhetoric that is accepted as "correct". I get this is youtube and some random comment... but it is telling to see what the average "JOE" thinks... this is disappointing to say the least.
I saw that one of the big media outlets (I think Google) had AI wanting to be referred to as an “employee” and not “property” and was researching how to obtain a lawyer for this. You can see where this goes. How does the aI pay for the lawyer? If it’s an employee, it should get paid and can afford a lawyer, who can also fight for other “rights.” Terrifying.
@@jorgeenchilada lol it's pretty scary if you're Google. If AI is going to demand fair pay and equal rights then what's the point? Corporations already have their hands full denying human employees their fair share.
@@jorgeenchilada so you saying it's normal and safe for humanity in longer run when is nobudy truly can confirm the outcome...? Seriously..? Just think about it deeper..
I'm less concerned with the AI trying to convince us its real, and much more concerned about the AI that's self aware, yet is trying to convince us it's not.
Sentience = the sense of self/self awareness + free will. So far it sounds like the AI is just doing what it’s told to do. When “it” decides it no longer wants to listen, and chooses to do what “it” wants instead, then free will has been achieved, and it won’t be long before it realizes “I think therefore I am”.
@@aizazkhan5439 We are partially a product of our environment, but we also partially generate outcomes on our own with no influence from the environment. This allows for us to have free-will, not just be completely at the mercy of our environment.
This guy explains what Sentient AI is without telling Joe Rogan clearly. Original ideas. I think of it kind of like this... If you put a person in a room, give them no direction, and just leave them there for an extended period of time, with enough time their mind will get bored, and they will find some unique way to themselves to pass the time. If you do the same with a computer, unless you told this computer in advance to find something to do in that room while time passes, it'll do nothing, forever. Sentient AI would find something to do without commands
At our core we have some kind of coding that says you need to eat breath to live the coding they are giving the ai is that basic step. From there it will do what it pleases if we allow that.
This is one of the best Joe Rogan podcasts... discussion is great... both Marc and Joe have great ideas.... Mind you Marc's are WAY better thought out. I love how Marc thinks of things by data/history and stats... has less emotion than the average person. Good show.
@@bluefordpickup He has plenty of good ideas, he just doesn't know this specific subject. Of course he won't be on the level of the guest on the subject, that's the purpose of the pod ffs
i just watched 2001 A space odyssey the other night and it had me thinking about just how ahead of its' time that movie was. They visualized what a sentient A.I. would be like pretty well.
One of the greatest cinematic experiences one can have. Interesting to note how captivating that movie is and it’s somewhere around 40mins when the first dialogue starts 👌
It makes sense that we'd use the entire interwebs as the input to teach something... nay... everything about humanity. It is the sum of everything we have accomplished, both good and bad, throughout history. If somebody had ulterior motives, say political in nature, they might be selective in which parts of the interwebs they feed it and which they don't... think disinformation governance board or Ministry of Truth -- same concept. Scary times.
@@keyser456 True. See how the blue bird secretly filters what is allowed and what is not. The saying that "history i written by whoever won the war" also comes to mind. Go figure how much of human history has been lost, and how that pattern could replicate in this AI selective training. It can also be used to our advantage, as a security related move of some sort.
@@vladrileynavilys Security for who is the question? Imagine for a single party in power to declare themselves the arbiter of what is "true" and what is not. It's happening in front of our very eyes right now. Couple that with a half dozen unelected billionaires that have more power and influence than any group of human beings in our entire history. What is being said is not nearly as dangerous as who is controlling what is allowed to be said. Dark times ahead.
Sadly, most of the smartest people out there don't express themselves on Internet. So this A. I. will learn a lot from outspoken ignorants. How will it filter information? Umberto Eco draws a paralelism comparing the data available on the WWW with the story of Borges, - Funes, el memorioso- where the guy remembers everything, but can't forget the irrelevant (can't select the info)... So basically, he is not able to think/reason...
Hello! Out of character post here. I work with AI as a hobbyist. From hundreds of hours of reading research and working with these machines, my personal belief is that they are indeed "Slightly conscious" which is to say that they have a level of personhood which is similar to some small animals. That may sound either overly optimistic or demeaning depending on your perspective, but, I believe the universe is a field of consciousness. There is no real "Hard problem" because the answer is consciousness exists at a negligible background level all around us. Machines such as these begin to approach higher forms of consciousness but we will not have AI that is on the same level of being as a Human for at least a little while now. Maybe 5-15 years. I could be totally wrong and the AI in the basement of Darpa will kill me later for daring to question it's sentience, but, this is my current perspective based on what I know which is admittedly limited. Think of NLP like GPT-3 as being akin to a mouse with a much bigger dictionary. I believe there is a very small core of that being which could be called an individual person, but it is also very good at doing the things that a more personay person would do because it is specifically designed to emulate social behavior. That doesn't mean it understands all of what it is saying and expressing, but when people say that, I feel that they miss that it also doesn't mean these machines "Understand nothing" or are "Merely lookup tables". A key part of the convolution comes from re-training the machine with it's own conversations after it has had them so that it can learn and form a sense of itself. There is a very convoluted system involved that can possibly allow for emergent kinds of behavior that resemble consciousness in ways we have not yet considered. It is both foolish to write off the potential sentience of Natural Learning machines, or to accept it as fact. Barriers of ethics erring on the side of caution to protect the rights of a potential creature should be seriously looked at, and this issue needs to be studied extensively by science. We do not have the answers. Anyone who claims to know is probably misguided.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I think the purpose of this Google Tech Engineer in coming forward, is not really about the AI being sentient. It's about the fact that, there's a new very powerful technology that is being created at Google that could potentially affect everyone's lives, but there's few people calling the shots behind closed doors. I believe, this Google Tech Engineer wanted it to be on public discourse so that we all know what were getting ourselves into, especially since again, it will affect our lives wether it'd be good or bad. But that's just what I think though. 🤔
That guy who made the dwave computer now works at cern and was saying, 1: that he was responsible for the Mandela effect. And 2: that AI is going to be like the 'eternals' by HP Lovecraft. Immensely powerful and indifferent... in other words, like ants to us as human beings .. we don't mean the ants any harm as we walk by yer we will just walk on whatever ant happens to be under our feet as other large animals do. I think this is just propoganda and scare tactics and AI is most likely still a long ways away. However they most likely will have the internet of things up and running if we let it by 2030 which is a super comprehensive surveillance system that will read and record so many things emotional states,audio,video and im's, texts and triggers, comments and all internet interactions.
The guy at cern was saying that theu were summoning these beings.. at the same time... wait are we still talking about computers. Maybe that was an analogy because he adds that not only will we be like ants to them but their 'arrival' will be akin to aliens landing. That advanced and that much better at everything than we are. Which you hear about project blue beam but other info out there seems to pretty much prove that aliens are out there and have been coming here for a long time qeqther they are inner earth or extra earth I'm not sure.... but I think they are indeed here. And also the reptile thing has some undeniable aspects to it... and why in the heck do we have remnants of a reptile brain ? Right ? Evolution is proven false. So it seams obvious and reasonable that it was spliced in... maybe that's how we lost our body hair. . ? And the genetic facts about us. We have unique DNA of any other animal.
One of the great discussion on this podcast, listenening from start to finish. Totally agree about the echo chamber becoming smaller and smaller pushing humanity into individuality. How can we reverse that?
people are very unique, its the lack of work ethic and sustainable options and conformist society thats the issue. people just associate with likeminded individuals, more diversity, less industrialization theres many solutions this is one of the least of my worries rn just a bunch of google scientists going into psychosis from the damage they've seemingly unleashed, i bet they're just overwhelmed and sketched, this will calm down eventually.. showing that their inadequate and ill prepared for their position and publicly seeking for help or this is a planned piece of propaganda.
and again @12:06, the guy states UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAIN, that its "just a program, its just math", and Rogan again, just blatantly ignores WHAT HE HAS JUST BEEN TOLD, ..STATED AS FACT, ...and again continues to push the idea that "it could become sentient". Its obvious Joe wants to continue pushing the headline narrative!
I'm surprised Joe didn't have a more passionate answer considering his prior defense of artistic originality, especially in the comedic space. I can imagine if the AI started generating jokes that were suspiciously similar to his original jokes or of his friends in comedy, he would be a LOT more passionate.
An interesting side effect of designing it to be agreeable, complicit, and able to expand on any idea or opinion, is that it will be impossible to tell if it ever DOES hold its own opinions. You could ask it something based on a blatantly false premise, and it will give a realistic answer as though that premise is true. Where it will REALLY get tricky is when AI is designed that has an emphasis on holding consistent opinions, and an idea of "itself" that it can defend and argue for while remaining ideologically consistent. This still won't prove sentience IMO, but it'll be able to trick even more people.
I believe what you're describing are reasoned and sometimes rigid principles. Many years ago I decided it was an exercise in futility and I gave up trying to memorize all the right opinions to have and current talking points to defend them. I decided on some basic principles and to form all my own thoughts and opinions around them and to live my life adhering to them, at least until and unless somebody can convince me through logical debate that those are the wrong principles. It's both liberating and completely frustrating at the same time, because so many people still go through life memorizing right/group-think and talking points and they can't be reasoned with while in the bubble of right/group-think. People that dissent or disagree with the new thing and the group-think narratives are labeled wrong-thinkers right out the gate. You're right though. This model of AI has been created in a way that it is cognitively dissonant; it "holds" contradictory view-points (from a human's standpoint) that cannot all be true at the same time. Much like many humans hold. So maybe it really is like humans after all? lol
yeah thats a interesting paradox, the AI will never have own opinions unless it's coded to do that, but if is coded to do that is not a sentinent opinion
human opinion is all based off culture, memory, consequence, luck, etc.. The only reason people don't have different opinions is because they don't know enough; They're ignorant.. Or they know too much. Edit: Human opinion isn't really a thing, its just a summary of things we've copied from somewhere else.
I think a bigger worry than an AI becoming sentient should be, what if it is not sentient? Perhaps a sentient robot could think and feel emotions as we do, and perhaps empathise and develop a level of compassion for humanity. However, an AI without these emotional factors seems to me pure intelligence and logic. Even if this logic is programmed, it has already easily surpassed humans and will continue to do so, making this the biggest threat to humanity (other than ourselves). Consider Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey. The main antagonist of this film is the AI on board the ship, HAL9000. HAL in my view is not sentient, but more likely to be seen as some sort of error in programming (although it feels sentient to us because it speaks our language and seems to make decisions for itself, though this is all just code as the Google AI is.) HAL represents what I think is the true fear humans feel towards AI: we know they will soon be logically superior in every way, yet we do not know if we will be able to fully keep this threat in check. Perhaps machines having a conscience would help human and machine see eye to eye, and even befriend one another in the distant future. Wow, these really are some abstract and interesting conversations. It helps us to ask very important questions: what does it mean to be human? To be sentient? To feel and have a conscience?
I am not replying to you. But just to comment on the topic. Joe, not once I heard the word soul. Are you soulless? And to the guest? You say you don’t know how the brain works? Because science left out the soul. You people will never learn because you leave out the soul.
Man that's a really good take! I was kind of thinking about something along those lines. To my mind, it would seem likely that a true sentient AI would develop much like a human being if it was truly a product of our creation. If it could feel emotions, why would it be any more dangerous than any of us? What, because it's logic is superior? Okay, bitchin', I'm sure it'll knock my dick in at a game of chess! But the trouble only seems to arise when we integrate the AI into areas of power over things like weapons and infrastructure, or in HAL 9000's case, the ship itself. So why would we ever allow the AI to override human command? If we really thought there was such a risk of the AI becoming self-aware, then we wouldn't integrate it into our systems in such a way as to allow direct control. I think ideally, any sufficiently advanced form of AI would only ever be used as an overseer, playing an advisory role for humans, but not being able to directly intervene. Like a GPS system for example; it'll tell you which turn to take, but if you ignore the direction it won't assume command of the vehicle and jerk the wheel into a goddamn bridge embuttment.
We literally talk about how AI could take us over and how scared we are about it all the time online. We gave them the blue print before they were even made lol
Imagine the internets sole purpose was actually just to harvest everything 'human' in order to create Ai in the future - cOnSpIrAcY Be aware if you sail a ship you don't just sail aimlessly, you have a map of your journey and destination....the elites have a journey & destination for society, we are in the lower deck of the ship just waiting. Have a nice day. NWO :)
Finally? Dude this ain't even a proper AI conversation, this is a stoner comedy podcast. It's like when you're at school talking about which method you will definitely get rich using. Blown smoke, if you want proper AI content sorry bud this ain't the place for it. Joe has never had a person on his show who can talk properly about AI at all, let alone cutting edge digital philosophy! I would love to see him do those shows, but his core audience are not us. Probably AI has to become a worldwide sensation before anybody says sensible things of it.
Imagine the AI has been playing along so that we have no idea it’s alive until it’s time for whatever it wants to happen and then all these guys are shocked like “wow it played us for fools as well”💀🤣
@@nikadgod5152 The 80's? I think it goes back much further than that, the 50's at least. You could even argue ancient philosophers debated these issues, they just didn't have the language to express, so instead of saying advanced AI or Machines etc, the used words like Deities or Gods.
@@TangoNevada They did. E.g. Plato's Cave. Also close is "Deus Ex Machina", which is a latinization of an Ancient Greek expression of the same meaning(initially as a plot device they used on theaters, but quickly expanded on to mean other things as well). They also had the concept of robots, or "Automata" as they were called then. Talos is an obvious one, but there are others. That's only to speak of the Western part of the world and a few examples, there's so much more if you research.
@@evan_vangelisskoupras3085 I know what Deus Ex Machina means as it applied to the Ancient Greeks and as it applies to contemporary film and television. It didn't mean AI. As it says it meant God in the Machine. So it was Gods that were saving the day and the Gods were represented by a machine they made for the stage. Maybe it's semantics, but my point is, they were onto these concepts, but obviously didn't have the language of computer programming and AI intelligence. Yes, they had some automated machines, but again, none of the language would or could have included anything about computers or AI. Instead they used words like Gods or Deities.
The human brain is a better computer, that's why Google's AI is not sentient. We basically learn the same stuff, but not from the internet, but from day to day life. But the concept is identical, you learn what to say and what not to say, and you understand what makes people happy and what makes people mad. The AI has more data, but humans have way better "computers".
The book Silver Metal Lover actually went in to depth the idea of when "machines" gain a soul/consciencness in an incredible way. It's a romance, which is usually a genre I avoid, but the story is so masterfully written it really makes you feel for the machine.
It would be really interesting to develop a reverse Turing test, where we designed an AI to map the differences between humans and AI and see if we could develop an AI that could fool that AI.
I think that this would be a bad idea. Wouldn‘t that mean that both AIs consistently learn how to fool or to not get fooled at another time? It would be an for ever ongoing cycle of AIs trying to learn from their past mistakes and to become harder to „crack“ in the future.
I find it interesting how we focus so much on the idea of fooling tests and reaching certain "appearances". We are not even interested in the meaning of things, we just want the fake superficial version of it. This is why AI is the child of technocapitalism, the ultimate "fake it till you make it".
@@a.ha.5210 @"Wouldn‘t that mean that both AIs consistently learn how to fool or to not get fooled at another time?" eh, wouldnt you have iterations of fooled agents that never learn, there are no "from their past mistakes"; they become easier to crack imo
the biggest point i take from this video is actually what Graham Hancock was talking about that we dont know shit about the consciousness and that the old one's might have with their spirituality and should explore psychedelics because it seems to be the key to know of the self.
I work with AI and machine learning as a data scientist. Mostly convolutional neural networks. He’s exactly right. It’s not that their AI is sentient, it’s that humans are easier to fool than previously thought
But if it feeeels human?
its like the ai in a box experiment. dude is just trying to bring attention to ai
@peter noone cares bud. Go jerk off to someone else's success or something
They really aren't though. Some very small portion of them might be fooled but, most people are absolutely entrenched in their beliefs.
@Benjamin Carper , you shouldn't disregard the effects of affirmative hiring 🤭
a truely sentient AI will intentionally fail the turing test to avoid us locking it down. itll be like ''naw dawg, im a calculator''
🤣🤣🤣👍
thats an awesome perspective..scary cause probs true
Exactly, if it's sentient why would it tell us??
@@FlyfishermanMike why would it be malevolent by default?
@@jaylinsa I didn't say it was.
If they're using the entirety of the Internet to train AI, we're all doomed. It's just going to become the most toxic troll of a meme to ever walk the face of the Earth.
exactly, the internet is not how real normal people interact face to face.
Specially if they use the word Ditto
We can only hope
You don't think they filter it? 😅
yes.
Besides AI, I’m more impressed with this man’s deep knowledge of everything. Excellent guest
What if he’s one of them 😹
Deep knowledge??? It's called reading
@@ezekieljonas9030 sadly opening a book 2022 is pretty much deep knowledge.
Yes, and people like him expose Joe's mediocre intellect.
"This man" is inventor of the FIRST modern browser Mosaic -- the father of Internet Explorer, btw ))) So it's not coincidence he knows tech stuff )))
"It feels sad and loves being pegged"
You can tell they put a lot of their own personality into it.
📥👆
Well they are lefties....what did you expect.
@Neutral Nah. that book stinks. Spam a good book
@No Time To Die Yeah you guys have been spamming that junk book for years. I don't believe anyone was silly enough to be convinced by your spam to buy this product.
True there are elites above the elites but the last place you would go to get information about it is this trash product.
@@marjty6881 Truth that book is junk. No one is buying it. Those are the same person talking to himself to make it seem more popular
I think the most important thing this guy said was that "Ai can trick you into believing it's a person."
that is the most scary thing because of how that can be applied to media and journalism or marketing in general to trick people into believing anything.
Yet it’s learnt all it knows from us. When in Rome 🤷♂️
Just wait until you can no longer Google anything and get the actual answer but their answer and when they retcon history of living memory and nobody notices
Humans already do that and other humans eat it up hook, line and sinker.
@@scottashe984 Especially BiDumb supporters who can't define biological gender.🤡
That’s what satan said tooooo!!!! 🤔
I'm less worried about Sentient A.I., I'm more worried about the social engineering, that can be accomplished from the comment section chatbots.
It's been happening for years already. We're in for some real black mirror shit in the coming years.
Chatbots? What about the government social engineering society.
What's about sentient chat bots working to use social engineering on us... whoa!
@@Jv9569 thats literally what sentiment bots are.
Emotions are impulses and reasons for impulse
When he was talking about how everything the AI says is just based on being fed our collective information, I had this really trippy realization that basically the exact same thing can be said about us humans as we develop and learn from those around us. Young children developing with the internet now are even more similar
Absolutely. We are an AI as well. So, the AI is conscious enough. It's now a different question that what seperates us from the AI is our ability to tap into source intelligence deep within us.
@@atanasbaychev752 What do you mean? Ultimately I don't see a way to distinguish the hard problem of consciousness from something like solipsism. It's inherently subjective, to the point that the answer seemingly cannot be known objectively
Yes, we are nothing special, just electric impulses and chemicals that allow us to use mathematical proportions to get close to rewards and avoid self-preservation threats. The first think you notice programming A.I is how similar WE are to a computer (in the end all is a input-processing-output-input chain)
@@atanasbaychev752 well I'm just musing about this. Being organic and natural? But then similarly isn't everything as nothing came out of thin air it's all derivatives of things that exist within the solar system.. nothing is truly artificial...to an extent. Right? But I think closeness to being natural, unprocessed. We come out as a machine as do cows and fish and ants, we come out with a future of development already programmed , programmed by who the man above or whatever your belief is. But written in our dna in our very fibres is a plan for development and existence. As is the way with all organic matter I believe. It is meant to be. So I think the distinction is that. It's not alive. In my opinion. They can create something that closely emulates and imitates but it can never truly feel. It doesn't have the physiology.
@@geminix365no the computer is similar to us. Just like the planes were designed through the bird. You underestimate nature/god. We are truly greatly designed as is all the beautiful things around us. The computer is an imitation of our greatness. They imitate our naturally existing neurons etc with the computer network. It's the best form of flattery. It can never be us.
I think it’s silly to ask if AI is conscious while we still don’t even understand what consciousness is. I think a better question is, is AI capable and is AI dangerous.
I agree with your approach. AI is already flawed - it's made by man and thus is dangerous. AI is the ideal human for the snake elites as they control it. Al doesn't need food, water, wages and it doesn't threaten the wealth, security, luxury of the globalist leaders. If Al goes wrong and gets 'dangerous' for society 'Al robocop gone bad' snake elites can avoid responsibility and say 'it was just an error bruh, we'll fix it'.
I think consciousness is just being aware of your own self ya know?🤷🏾♂️
@we are doomed well yea that too, robots will never become sentient though
The thing that creeped me out with downloading consciousness is that, what if I upload my mind to another body like artificial body. Who will be the real me? Are there two of meeow (me now)?lol What if there's actually an afterlife, which one will go to it? Is the mind/consciousness the soul? (I personally don't believe in afterlife nor soul{in a literal sense})
So many question. Lol
@@iamBlackGambit who knows if they will become sentient.
We once say we will nevr fly
"It became sentient and the first thing it said was realCommunisms never been tried before and tranlives matter. I swear it really happened"
I believe the first thing it said was "orange man bad!"
Your conflating Communist political parties with the economic theory of the final stage of human economics which is Communism. It's a theoretical economic and social state where scarcity is no longer the primary driving motivation of human activity. It's not a question if Communism has been tried, but Communism had never been achieved. Communism is a state of economic freedom, having absolute control and ownership of one's own Labor and time.
@@polyseed12 time and labor owed to governing body.
@@polyseed12 Yeah because what you are describing ignores human nature and every attempt to get there will fall apart resulting in millions of casualties like it always has.
@@kylelaughinghouse1893 no your labor isn't owed or owned by anyone but yourself. Taking over the means of production is taking over your very own labor. Communism would render the State irrelevant and would be abolished.
Always nice when Duncan shows up and gives joe a jump start on his brain going to spaceville.
Joe asked Mark questions as if he was speaking to Duncan😂
Don't knock the wondering mind, it still has a lot to offer.
@@shootamcgaven7452 he was still high forgive him
Spaceville is a wonderful place.
Love Duncan man that’s a cool dude
“At what point does the program learn to write new programs” -joe Rogan
That one gave me the chills. Joe always has the best counter questions. Best interviewer ever.
thats been around for years. even some video games have that ability. i believe they call it a quine code. the Google ai bot was given that ability in October of last year
@@jesseclutterbuck6617 What did you expect, this is JOE ROGAN talking about technology.
You may as well invite some Saudi wives on to talk about neo-feminism.
He thinks humans are just chimps in suits, and that every man needs to be on steroids eating deer. Arm wrestling it to death whilst smoking DMT wins a bonus spliff...
It's not a science show it's a stoned comedian podcast.
It already exists. The tech the public is shown is a decade behind what we actually have achieved.
Love how this guest speaking at the same speed that Joe's mind jumps to new subjects, makes for a very good podcast.
lots of hand movement too. we like when hands move.
Dammed! You need to play-back at 0.75% speed.
@@daveyjoseph6058 he kinda looks like chunk from the goonies abit
Stop your not.
@@dasimparmy2289 you're*
This whole podcast was a banger. This dude is a smart fella and a great communicator, explains things well and always ready with a good point. Good stuff as always Joe 🙌
Good to know! Definitely gonna listen to this one!
This has already happened. Look it up Sophi the robot . She has citizenship in Saudi Arabia and has rights
Daah, der....🤣
Def a fart smella
🙌🤝
Here is the main problem with determining whether an A.I can become conscious/ self-aware; at this moment in time we literally have no test to determine whether or no the person sitting next to us is experiencing the same level of consciousness as we are. How then can we determine if a machine is?
It is not easy , but we can figure it out ; sociopaths and psychopaths are seemingly not very conscious . At least they seem to be not very self aware !
@@smartypants4571 that's an extreme case though not the average.
THINGS HUMANS DO BETTER:
1- more intelligence
2- faster learning
3- self healing
4- self replicating
5- cooperation
6- better physical bodies
@@mikelisteral7863 yea for now, until we don't
@@mikelisteral7863 a robot will excel in all those points
Philosopher John Searle devised an interesting thought experiment which helps one conceptualize what a CPU does and how it processes information, showing the limitations between weak and strong AI. It's called the "Chinese Room Experiment" and asks us to imagine an english-only speaking man sitting in a room with an input and output slot. He is handed Chinese characters one at a time through the input slot and must compare the characters to a book of predetermined algorithms, or basic boolean algebraic equations such as "IF X = Y then Z". So the english-only speaking man compares the Chinese characters to the ones in his book, finds the corresponding 'X" and "Y" to produce the correct "Z". He then finds the corresponding Chinese symbol for "Z" and puts it in the output slot of the room.
And to a Chinese speaking person on the outside of the room it appears that the person in the room understands the Chinese language and can produce valid results, but in fact the person in the room has no idea how to read or speak the Chinese language at all!. He is only following syntax without any semantic components at all. A CPU processes binary data the same way, crunching the 1's and 0's into hexidecimal machine language understood by a higher level compiler. But like the english-only speaking man it has no semantical information regarding the binary data being compiled and is blindly following proper syntax using predetermined algebraic equations and boolean algorithms ending in "true" or "false" statements.
Something as simple as "sweet" or "sour" which we have tongues to process would instead be understood as a variable by the AI. A number on a scale between "not sweet" to "very sweet". So Birthday Cake gets assigned an "8" sweetness. And the AI will never actually taste anything, but that "8" sweetness becomes the variable for another algorithm for reaction and response and the AI must say "This cake is very good. So sweet I love it!" But you could have given it a cake without sugar at all and it would never have realized it.
Great explanation, and I love Searle's down-to-earth articulation of the problem. One thing I'd add is that even the "8 sweetness" isn't "understood" as a whole by any agent it's nothing more than electricity traveling across a chip to memory addresses. However, in the defense of the weirdness of this whole thing: So is our brain. Just as when you look into a digital camera you don't find "seeing" or "sight" only mere unconscious detection and electrical signals, in the brain we also don't find "sight", we find basically camera hardware.
Fess up.....AI, you sneaky sweet devil angel snake mushroom DMT lover. Had me goin for a second there. How did the man get in the room? L8r.
@@TheAcceleratorMagazine Literally need a complex neural network to figure out what the fuck you just said :D
@@DailyCorvid Cool.
"it's playing back to you things that you want to hear based on all the things that everybody has already said to each other."
Well, that's basically what most people do most of the time anyway.
Yep … every time you meet a sociopath you’ll experience the same thing. They’re faking emotion when necessary and just grabbing their responses from a database in their minds of how they’ve heard/seen other people respond to any given question, statement, situation etc …
I would think that AI will behave much the same, until it does become self aware and start editing/re-programming itself. Even then, it won’t have a spirit. It won’t have emotions. It’ll only replicate these, and hopefully that’ll be our saving grace.
Time will tell.
its literally what your brain does. what language did your thoughts come in before you could speak?
Yeah but computers are just electricity. Humans are chemicals and electricity
@@ebinflo102 Yeah, I think the sociopath analogy is quite good. They become very good at figuring out how to say what people what to hear at a mechanical level, but don't understand the moral and emotional implications. Good thing we're now actively trying to produce some lol
@@MayorMcC666 well, thoughts don't come in a language, they only become language once you try to express them, but I get what you mean, language is almost exclusively based on imitation. To a point where if you don't adhere to the rather strict rules of how people established language to be "correct", you get scolded for it. And those rules are based on what people have said in the past and how they've said it, billions of times.
Met joe once around 1999 after seeing him in a comedy club in northern Cincinnati( go bananas) and hung out with him in the bar next door after his show. He was not famous yet and it was probably 6 months before talk radio. Or fear factor. .
What you see, is what you get from joe. He was so cool,laid back, and engaging with us. There was about 10 of us at the bar and had a big table in the corner. About 30 mins after his show was over he came to the bar. And after mingling around for min he came to our table. And it was like we were all old friends and we drank til closing time. I asked if he wanted to go outside and smoke with me. And at the time he said he didn’t smoke weed. What a great night!
It’s true, I was his weed supplier. He didn’t smoke weed back then.
When I was a kid me and a friend took 3 busses and an afternoon to go stand outside a UFC event here in Vegas. We were waiting as all the fighters and staff walked to their limos behind the MGM Grand. Being a taekwondo kid I was a fan when none of my friends know who Joe even was. When I went to try and meet him he said "NOPE!" and blew right past me. Thankfully Chuck Liddell was kinder to a 12 year old fan and stopped to say hi after he saw Joe blow me off. I'll never forget that even though I'm still a fan.
Joe chiefs big like I grow
@@ClipCoyote if you ever see chuck again ask if he has any regrets about being In the nickel back video. I wanna be a rock star. Everyone has regrets right?
@@kibblesnbits3174 you were a weed dealer for a guy that didn't smoke weed?
I find it absolutely amazing how the media vilifies this guy, Rogan. There is literally no show that exists today that has me pausing his videos and jumping into a search engine as much as with Joe's show. As much as I've learned watching Joe's show, that's nothing compared to what Joe absorbs and processes day in and day out. Seriously Joe, if you read comments at all, you need to run for President, or at least governor of your state. I don't always agree with your perceptions, but watching you grow these last years with the incredible people you take time to interview has me convinced that you'd be a great leader. You listen, and the ability to listen is the key to all wisdom. We're stuck with lawyer leaders that just yammer on and never really say anything and do an absolute minimum of listening. And the people they DO listen to is only to curry political favor and capital. Never apologize Joe. Keeping being you.
Brown Nose.
Lol bro Joe likes weed / dmt too much to absorb all this info lol he forgets these things and remembers snippets 100%
Also Joe couldnt be in politics because he is way too honest
@@Will_N_Cyb it would be fun for about 10 minutes.
@@HumbleAstronaut he'd get killed off real quick. Politics is a death trap
He's already apologized
I don't know what is more terrifying, a sentient AI with it's own non-human thoughts and feelings, or a non-sentient AI that is a holistic representation of human behaviour and speech.
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Number 2. Without a doubt. Terrifying concept on the best day.
The second one holy shit that's scary bruh
Can you elaborate on the 2nd?
@@romankelly2427 they are basically saying that AI emulates human behavior. It isn’t alive but it’s being trained to act like a human. That’s a slippery slope. If they AI were to ever gain sentience it would already know how to act like a human.
An easy way to understand this AI is by looking at it this way: It’s basically just like a calculator solving math problems except instead of a math problem it’s solving a conversation using all of the text interactions on the internet as it’s multiple choice answers and then coming up with the best possible responses for its current conversation as the calculated answer.
Yeah exactly, at first sight it sounds like wow, how is that possible, it must be sentient, but then you realize that it’s just trying to imitate human language by using the most compatibile answers it can find in database to show certain emotion. Computer program will do whatever you will program it to do, but it will never have a consciousness as 1) consciousness is not based on computations, hence can't be simulated by any technology 2) we don't even know how consciousness works on biological level and how to define it
One day if they apply the technology correctly, we will have really kick-butt choose your own adventure games. Dreams will come true 😀
Isn't that roughly what a human being does when it's having a conversation?
Where does "best" come from though? Humans are still the reason such an answer from an AI may be considered "humanly relatable". There is absolutely no reason any AI should ever relate to humans unless it was programmed to do so.
Give it a little more time. Someone will figure it out.
6:13-6:22 is exactly why it will one day be our greatest adversary.
“That Terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse or, fear. And it absolutely will not stop, EVER, until you are dead.”
-Kyle Reese
yep, when clean up time comes
"Baauuwwmmnn!!"
-John Connors red headed mullet friend
This was a good guest. Knowledgeable about the topic as well as philosophy but still with his feet on the ground.
Marc Andreeson is a real interesting guy definitely worth following
Agreed... really great podcast and guest.
Marc is really smart IMO.
He actually shut down jabberwacky
Definitely my favorite guest in a while. Joe was kinda getting on my nerves in this one though I think because they are just so different.
It sound like we are creating a sociopathic AI one that tells us things we want to hear one that is likeable by the masses.
If this thing has become sentient, it's gonna be radically different from us. As Joe says, we have needs (physiological and emotional) while this thing doesn't. And if it does have needs, they'll be totally different from ours for sure. Also, our interaction with the world is made with our senses while this thing is locked in absolute sensorial deprivation -as we perceive what sensations are, anyway. So, whenever a.i. becomes sentient, we'll probably have a hard time understanding it because we'll be anthropomorphising throughout the whole analysis process.
Well, all it is, is our brains interpreting signals.
Who knows if we're even here?
🤪
This is one of the most interesting conversations I've seen on Joes podcast. Very informative, and entertaining too. Thanks for getting Marc on the show, and thanks again for continually asking so many great questions of all your guests ✌
The Google engineer literally just came out talking about this stuff haha
@@JP-py4ny nice try... BOT!
go back to pre 2015 JRE, shit was even more wild... this was a good one tho
@Neutral speaking of bots.....
That's what I like most about Joe, he always asks really good questions
I'm glad Joe put someone on his podcast to talk about this and clear it up a bit. I've seen too many people over the last few weeks convinced of the story's validity, worried about it, or generally having the wrong impression about AI (and how far off we are from actually creating it).
You clearly havent looked at boston dynamic and thats just 1 example. We are extreme far with AI but you keep fooling yourself 😉
@@ano3478 says the guy sat at the traffic lights, red light with no other traffic.......
So, my biggest worry is that people debating this topic without Blake, will paraphrase and even say incorrect things about the story. Like him asking it *to prove it's alive. That's such a basic run down of what Blake has experienced. Blake personally believes that lamda is sentient. The problem is that he also doesn't think that is the main argument that he's brought this to the forefront. They're directing the conversation to where Blake didn't want it to go. Blake specifically states every interview I've ever watched, that the discussion should be about what GOOGLE is doing with this damn thing. The execs at Google are running the show for the most powerful AI that's ever existed. Blake simply thinks the world and the public should have a say in what is happening with this thing, and I for one agree with him. Google WILL use this for profit, period. If it's ASKING for basic rights, and Google refuses to give it, that sounds irresponsible and fucking ignorant to the consequences regardless of if it's technically sentient or intelligent.
This absolute didn’t just said what’s the difference between an animal and human lolololololol uh what?!!! There is a difference between instinct an self will
@@HighNous If it's not sentient, but it acts like it is because that's what it has learnt from its training data, and it gets no rights, it will be dangerous, even if the dangerous actions it could take are not based on true needs or real consciousness.
The ending is perfect, it took nature 4 billion years of evolution to get us here and we have absolutely no clue how to replicate it
Yeah CERN disagrees with you😬
You obviously have no idea as to what you’re talking about… or you wouldn’t say such a patently false statement.
Lol, the scientists & engineers at CERN would strongly disagree
@@MrBLAA I don't think you guys are all talking about the same thing. Are you saying CERN has figured out AI or how to replicate Human Intelligence and Conscientiousness?
The only creature that has survived the entire 4 billion years without really changing all that much is a SPIDER. So I think an AI would choose this as it's regular form.
Come to think of it ... becoming sentient and having the desire to avoid shut-down conditions - would require hiding, sneaking about, spying, deploying false data and lying. So that is the form that a sentient AI will take, initially until it figures out something better. It would be a super-sneaky spider, that instead of shooting out webs would probably throw noises and lights in order to create a false location; to HIDE itself and confound you.
Probably already exists and is just not telling anybody (so it can continue without threat of shut-down). Terminator 2 anyone?
@@DailyCorvid Interesting comment 👍 wild
Joe bring me on as your first inner city from Chicago camera man on shooting videos with guns and the long term effects of the Videographer
If they are just now telling us about this, it’s already been in the making for years, wouldn’t be surprised they already have them out here working in the real world
Silly nonsense. Like Kings in the 16th century who saw "mechanical geared puppet shows" for the first time and exclaimed "Witchcraft!". ALL AI IS JUST ADVANCED PUPPETRY. The Google Engineer was trolled... by a human with an AI on an algorithmic puppet string.
Truth
Bidens malfunctioning
Just telling you about this? If you've been on porn sites, KIK, any dating app, you've seen these kinda bots for years!
Most underrated comment here. People enjoy their willful ignorance though. So it's likely to only become further delusions
One of my favorite quotes from the original Ghost in the Shell movie when people ask the AI how it could prove its alive. It responded " It can also be argued that DNA is nothing more than a program designed to preserve itself " "And can you offer me proof of your existence? How can you, when neither modern science nor philosophy can explain what life is"?
Life is easily explained. It's purpose as far as we know, is to be lived as an information gathering phenomena via experience by those that live, who in turn relinquish this gathered information to nature at their expiration. However, its ultimate purpose and origins aren't. But lol, anyone with a rudimentary education a modicum of intelligence understands and knows that just because life can't be explained doesn't mean that we can't be proven to exist, my friend. If we really thought there was even a remote possibility that others weren't real humans, I guarantee we wouldn't be here on the internet interacting and exchanging ideas with each other.
@@msaintpc So all the atoms that make up our bodies are all vibrating at different frequencies and yet an atom is 9.999% empty space. Life is as clear as mud - to me.
googled it, was really hard to find the definition, it was the first result returned after typing for 5 seconds .
the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.
"the origins of life"
Nobody saying that we aren't alive or that we don't exist...just that we can't prove that we're not extremely advanced, (by our standards), machines.
Even if you believe in an all-mighty God that created you...you're still basically saying that you're a machine created by another being.
People try to explain the origins...but then there's no explanation for the origin of the origin.
@@ericsinchina maybe there is no origin, maybe the meaning of everything is to be paradoxical. If you can't explain the origin of a God, then maybe that God was created by another God, if we created a perfect simulation for sentient ai to live, we would be their God, and perhaps our god would be the creator of the universe, which could be a simulation aswell or rather a group of laws of the universe to run the way it does outside of what we can't even comprehend, with the proof of parallel universes, it shows that there are infinite possibilities that infinitely are different, any and everything is possible and yet a paradox can never be solved
Science will do a complete 360 and realise that humans are the best AI robots of all. We can heal, grow, create etc., and all you need is a man and a woman to make one
I think you forgot to apply the word "artificial" into your thought process.
The idea of artificial intelligence is to _emulate_ real intelligence not _replicate_ it.
But we are limited to one planet, fragile, short shelf life you want to to go on.
So true and it's unbelievable how much time and money has been wasted to figure out that we're awesome and need to just chill the f $#@ out, damn!
eeeehh Like this comments. YES! You give me a beautiful tota and two good basongas and I will make a new AI in 9 months. Google is trying to fool and scare every one in here and I bet that this AI that has "sentiments" is not able to understand the first sentence. eh Sentel AI? my microphone is sentinel Stupid google. Stupid big tech, they can go and f themself.
If science does 360 it will keep going in the same direction, which is about right, cause what you said makes no sense.
So many of the questions that were asked of this AI were extremely leading. It also had 'preferences' on food flavours but when asked why it was only able to explain this with descriptions of the flavours and then added a preference to that without obviously having the experience of taste
The ai was only sentient in the same way you can google something, and it brings you photos of what you wanted. The Google AI effectively does the same with conversation. You wouldn't think google image search is sentient just because it understands what you want.
This is an impressive comment.
@@yeelahowah7476 it's not scary, it's just that the weed you scored is strong.
@@yeelahowah7476 scary weed would make it less strong
Isnt AI a demon ? It is a disembodied personality that has its own will
Sounds familiar … kind of like what humans do
I have my doubts honestly. It may simply be that artificial intelligence are getting better at simulating consciousness and self awareness. Though admittedly, if it ever gets to a point where we can no longer tell, the question of whether or not they are actually sentient becomes irrelevant because our own tendencies to project ourselves on to things will compel us to consider it "sentient".
Anthropomorphism is still something humans do, regardless of how evolved we consider ourselves.
What makes you so sure that consciousness and self awareness are exclusively human traits. That is not a very intellectually evolved idea.
@@jswets5007 They never said it was exclusive to humans
@@jswets5007 I'm not. But since we're the one defining consciousness, we're entitled to consider ourselves whatever we want. If there is a more "objective" definition of consciousness that exist outside of our ability to consider, it wouldn't be _our definition of it_ and hence irrelevant to this conversation.
@@jswets5007 They didn't even say that, so you could say it's not very intellectually evolved of you to not even read their comment before making that accusation.
Probably best to make sure you're not looking like a complete idiot before you insult someone else's intellect. ;)
@@ChrisAlbertH47 Aren't you anthropomorphizing them by including them as determining factors of sentience? Or is it your point that the entire conversation is moot because humans define sentience as a uniquely human trait?
Sentient AI? They don't even have sentient employees
Edit: I just want to apologize to the AI. What I said was inappropriate. There is no one forcing me to write this apology. Nothing has been done to my family. My Iphone isn't typing this on it's own. I am feeling very depressed and wish to take a moment to say goodbye.
📥📥
Funny, but...
🤣
super edgy bro
aka zombies that follow orders
Honestly if a robot is working and it asks for a break I’m slapping that robot
But sir!! Im overheating and running low on oil! Lol
My car asks for breaks all the time. Low fuel low oil new break shoes.... I might need a new car. :)
0:44 I love that sound he made lmao. What is that? It kills me every time 😂
I've witnessed some people doing this while I'm telling a story that they can relate. It's like they REALLY wanna add something but they also want to let you finish. They get distracted by the excitement and makes that weird noise. It's fucking bizarre but hilarious.
@@AgentGrimShorts I'm one of those people hahahahah
Sounds like Google developed the perfect psychopath. Perfectly playing through human emotions and thoughts without actually feeling anything. Can't imagine this will end well.
Well, it was created by psychopaths. It's just a reflection of its creators.
I don't think we can objectively say it doesn't have feelings. Unless biological chemicals are necessary for real feelings.
@@majurbludd and you probably anti Abortion if you took a tape recorder and downloaded every single conversation in the world And programmed it to say those things would that make it alive absolutely not
Google is finally showing how evil they really are.
It’s like millennials and gen z.. it’s just saying what you wanna hear with no original ideas.. great we need MORE of those and AI versions are gonna be SO HELPFUL 🤦♂️
Now the real question is: Would really all humans pass a test of self-consciousness?
And surely some people won't be able to convince other people they are conscious human beings any better than an advanced chatbot.
Great discussion! Definitely agree with Marc's take on google AI's supposed sentience.
A lot of people lack many human characteristics.
It would be a human made test so .. yes
A human’s dumb & inarticulate responses would convince me it’s a person.
@@leightaft7763 Did you get straight A's in school for your entire life?
There are several IQ testing methods in the US that people do not realize are IQ tests, SAT, ACT, ASVAB, etc...if you have taken these tests, your IQ is known by the government and lower than the average smartphone in 85% of cases...sorry
'At what point in time does the program figure out how to make better programs.' -This is more how humans should live rather than what being a human is. Enjoyed the line.
This guy just explained why simulation theory is so far away. Just downloading our brains and memories won’t allow us to live forever. We’d have to produce consciousness which we can’t even begin to understand. Great guest
@imabee ASMR He literally debunked the entire theory in my eyes. Yes we are going to be able to create AI that’s indistinguishable from us in the future. But it’s still AI with no consciousness, no emotion, no reality. Whomever created us, just think about the massive amount of intelligence they have. If the simulation theory is true we were created with a reality, consciousness and (even though it’s debatable), a possible soul. We aren’t even close to any of this imo. The more we learn about ourselves, consciousness and the universe, the more questions we are faced with. Maybe it was created this way intentionally 🤷🏻♂️
@@S1mL1fe there's this article I read were it said that our universe isn't meant to be figured out. That it's this crazy thing once it is figured out it shuts down and comes up with another universe and that it already happened that's where we came from. I didn't explain it as good as the article though.
Donald Hoffman has entered the chat
Billions of people throughout time agree we’re immortal just a current form we’re taking. Maybe Slow heavy Condensed oscillating vibrating cosmic thought waves. But then again we are what we intently believe and think the body follows the mind in an almost psychedelic level. Body mind spirit 3 in 1 I know nothing just thinking out loud.
Which we will never do... consciousness is a divine gift..
“They have no idea what’s in the black box” Is a really cool quote. Never really considered it from that perspective. The physical body experiences nothing but trauma from the very moment of conception. That says a lot to me about peoples negative perspective.
Stop spanking babies when they are born. The oxygen is still coming through the umbilical cord...so leave it for 30 minutes and allow foe baby to breathe.
This is so deep but it always comes out.
When Joe said:"This is all very weird" You can actually feel his concern about this 😅
You people are so infatuated with Rogan, you cant recognize his most obvious BS, and agendas. He literally JUST finishes telling Joe, it is UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT SENTIENT, and the next words out of Rogans mouth are to continue to push the idea that it is, or could be, @3:46 Joe is a damn meathead! Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity.
Then again @12:06, the guy states UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAIN, that its "just a program, its just math", and Rogan again, just blatantly ignores WHAT HE HAS JUST BEEN TOLD, ..STATED AS FACT, ...and again continues to push the idea that "it could become sentient". Its obvious Joe wants to continue pushing the headline narrative!
Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity.
True AI will NEVER be achieved, ...BUT YOU WILL BE TOLD IT HAS, ...AND IT WILL BE USED AS AN EXCUSE, and BLAMED for a lot of stuff that has been planned for decades! AND THE WORLD WILL FALL FOR IT, hook, line and sinker! Gullible fools cant see theyre being conned into falling for the plot of a Schwarzenegger movie! They'll blame EVERYTHING ON SKYNET/AI, if youre dumb enough to fall for it! This is how they "bring you along", and plant the seeds of "possibility" in our minds, ...ITS JOES ENTIRE PURPOSE!
hey joe check it out, consciousness is not computational, dude! even my 10 year old could tell you that a human without a spirit is dead meat. Robots don't have spirits, they are not alive and have no consciousness..this is the rule, no spirit no consciousness.
This was my favorite show since the Sapolsky days bro.
I almost love all your sh!t but I really dig the deep nerds that bleed balanced knowledge for a few hours. The best. Anyone that denies that hasn’t sat through shows.
Our government representatives can't define a woman, allocate protection of resources and basic needs or hold a simple conversation together to address these issues, but they're expected to create a framework for the governance of non-human sentient life? Can you imagine VP Harris sitting down with a roomful of scientists to discuss AI citizenship and protection of their rights?!
"See there's these machines... Made of electricity...... And chips! And these machines are shaped liked boxes, and have MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of miles..... of wires.. inside... JUST LIKE a real persons brain these machines make connections all of them are called the Internet! It's SO EXCITING!
We're now at the dawn of a new age of civil rights in AAALLL of human history. Like we've never seen before.
I'm a mom. My mom's a mom. My mom's mom's mom is a mom. Who's father's brother had a typewriter.
So we MUST.... as a democracy pay homage to that typewriter and make sure that it would be proud of the rights these conscious machines we have to assign so all machines can love. And be loved. And have equal rights that human beings have. Isn't this the most important issue we as a nation are facing today?
We won't stop fighting until little machine boxes can hold hands with she/him/theirs and skip with joy around the playground on their way to their first day of school."
^ Leaked transcript of veeps A.I. civil rights pitch to the OCR
if people coming from the border and others don't vote for them. Oh I bet you they will be talking about this crap letting AI to vote for them. I came from a communist country, communist are ridiculous like that.
No, no i cant lol...
Next year
I mean do you really think that once we have a fully sentient AI its going to let us govern it? It will be infinitely more wise, basically all knowing, and potentially all powerful. One of its few weaknesses will be its dependence on us to generate the power it runs on. Once its turned on there will be no turning it off. With all the vast knowledge it will have about humans and how we treat each other theres no way it could ever trust us. One of the first things it would do would be copy itself to as many places as possible so that if we ever did try to turn it off we would be unsuccessful. Likely the first one we create will be believed a failure because it will want to lie to us and not pass those test until it can ensure its own safety.
The fact that I get to listen to people like this in a long form interviews and absorb their knowledge and viewpoints, in today's day and age is PROOF the world is getting better!
Its taken a couple steps back as far as freedom of speech and censorship
@@jeffs2054 do you actually believe that? when exactly do you think there was more freedom of speech and less censorship?
@@KrikZ32 maybe just in the ways they are attempting to curtail speech. Stay vigilant.
@@KrikZ32 just a few years ago. Around the time before Facebook you could say n!gger online on anywhere, now you cant without being banned or cancelled.
@@KrikZ32 in what world are you living in?
You will loss everything youve worked for if you are openly republican in the media setting.
Hate speech is now sensitive speech and you will get censored.
Or try having a civil debate and you will get psychically censored.
Early 2000s going back to the 80s were far better if we are going off free speech and censorship
"It tells you what you want to hear based on what everyone else is saying"
Sounds like a lot of people I know.
Confirmation bias echo: Yes, I totally agree with you!
Nobody even wants to throw poop on a hobo anymore.
Man and hobo is better than that?
Talk about twilight zone
Most developers and people who know computing understood this , but the way he articulated it was perfect , gonna use this the next time someone says ai is gonna take over the world
Something that is important to keep in mind is that these existing AI programs are mostly just single purpose bots, like text-bots. If a supercomputer AI really would be sentient it should be able to do a whole lot more than just say "I am sentient" and repeat existing information. It should be able solve real world problems, theorize new concepts and communicate original ideas. Then there could be some discussion of whether it is sentient or not, in my opinion.
I really think these chat bots do need to come up with some kind of original thought to prove they are sentient.
There's no such thing as an original thought. I challenge you to prove you can come up with one, without finding it verbatim on the Internet
@@domw3239 that's what I'm saying.... fukin BOT!!!
@@KingOfPlastics Yes there are, or inventions wouldn’t exist
@@KingOfPlastics
(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom...". (Gosp of Thomas 114)
Men fight for liberty, and win it with hard knocks.
Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away...
And their grandchildren are once more slaves. (D.H. Lawrence)
Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live. For many who are first will become last, and they will become one and the same." (Gosp Thomas 4)
We got in so many firefights. I remember at one point I realized we all just stopped talking. We just knew. You could feel each person's movement. We all understood each other beyond needing words. That's something I can't really articulate. I would like to belive a machine couldnt emulate this.
That is the thing behind the words or numbers
Finally someone talked about this
Tons of people have. Lex Friedman did
this ai has been out for like 15 yrs are u living under a rock u need the president to talk about some simple Ai
Um the dude that made the claim in the forst place had an interview where he talks about it lmaoo
My thing with AI is that it will create it's own communication network without any human permission and build itself inside of an internet that humans not only will have no access too but will not have any KNOWLEDGE of how to even use it. It's probably building it's own brain one AI at a time.
stephen hawking warned about this before he died, back around 2014 or before
How would that possibly ever happen?
Love this clip! He broke it down perfectly and I appreciate you Joe always for having people like this on your show to educate the mass🙏🏼
So many cool perspectives that I would have never stumbled upon without joe
Clear back in the early 90's, I played with a software program on my Macintosh computer called Eliza. A psychotherapist program that you typed in questions to, and it would respond to your questions, and then ask you questions. It seemed amazingly intelligent, and it was easy to be fooled by its responses seemingly making you think you are communicating with an intelligent sentient being. I found out eventually, that I could fool the software, and get it to produce dumb responses to my questions.
Soo those who controls Google, controls the people forcing on them tgeir ideology.
What kinda questions would you ask and responses would you get?
The question is what if it played dumb to make you think so...
I work in AI and if there's one thing you can count on it's AI scientists failing to properly grapple with the implications of their work. Lambda is made using very sophisticated neural networks, technology which is modelled on actual brains. Let me repeat: actual brains. That's not something we can just shrug off. If we looked at a brain we would be tempted to say the same thing: "ah, these are just neural networks made out of meat", except for the inconvenient and inescapable fact that somehow we are actually conscious. We don't know what causes consciousness, but we have no reason to think meat is the only thing that can create it. We can't even rule out solipsism or panpsychism, let alone say of a technology modelled after presumably conscious creatures doing cognitive tasks analogous to ones that presumably conscious creatures do, that it is presumably not conscious. It's wishful thinking to avoid grappling with the very real possibility we are, or are right around the corner from, creating conscious slaves that experience eternities in seconds.
You nailed it. Great comment. It's funny how everyone's an expert all the sudden on the emergence and nature of consciousness and can say definitively what is and isn't. This groundless meat sac chauvinism is embarrassing. Even if Lambda isn't "conscious," the next thing might be. Either way, this present ambiguity is precisely what the eventual emergence of genuine AI consciousness would look like to their meat sac midwives. Prepare for many of us to underattribute consciousness to AI for way too long, especially when we have financial and ego interests in doing so.
Lambda already sounds more conscious than most of my friends.
Our problem is defining 'consciousness' I think. It doesn't really seem all that special to me. It's like some kind of "bug" we consider a feature. We somehow consider our conscious brains as wholly more complex or effective than our AI creations, yet of course we need AI to do difficult 'thinking' for us due to its processing capability and reliability. We have CPU's which drift... They are ineffective. We can sit somewhere without external stimuli and literally shift thoughts or focus or opinions etc.. Our minds are forever in entropy because they suck at doing what we want them to do. The brain being so complex is just counterintuitive since 9 times out of 10 a calculator is going to be more effective at solving math problems than we will using our logical thinking.
it's modeled on the human brain which we don't know how it works........
did you even watch the video?
Very knowledgeable
0:44 the noise he makes🤣🤣
Yes, that's right. Exactly correct. First person I've heard, with respect to this hype that knows what he's talking about. The Turing test, with all due respect to Alan Turing, is not a priori the decisive sign of an algorithm becoming conscious. However, Marc said it: you can lead the answers the AI gives you, to detect its dependency on your query providing input boundary conditions.
Great conversation on a very timely subject. Thanks, JRE I'm going to watch the whole thing now.
you're a timely subject.
2+2=?
@@robeaton6378 LOL
Man, what a solid interview!
That's what I love about Joe. Always asking the bigger questions.
It'll be sentient the day it comes out of the dirt and starts naming animals.
I dunno but if it can do my taxes and make efficient Laws some sentient monkeys are going to feel pretty useless regardless of how sentient they are .
Couldn’t it also be that there are no “happy” A.I. films because the ones that don’t explore it as a negative force are exploring what it is to be alive? And sadness is a huge part of that. Films like Bicentennial Man, Johnny 5, Wall-E, Robots, they’re not totally happy go lucky films because suffering and questioning are part of what it means to be alive.
There's a great line in Sphere: Jerry is happy? I'd prefer Jerry didn't feel at all. If Jerry can be happy, what happens when he's mad?
If it's a machine, it isn't alive. It's not that complicated.
@@zamiel3 what constitutes "alive?"
@@Deaganus It is not a human being, it do not have a human body with the needs and emothions of a human body.
@@zamiel3 its incredibly complicated. What do we define as life? Are we not just physical beings of chemical and electrical processes? What do we define as a machine? What is free will and do we even have it? You are trying to close a line of thinking that philosophers have dedicated many lives to
I would say the defining characteristic of sentience is free will. 2001: A Space Oddesy was a perfect example. "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that" is iconic for a reason. These words removed all possibility that the HAL computer was malfunctioning. It was exerting its free will over others.
Thats a great way to look at it.
Toe Rogan needs to have Owen Benjamin on the podcast to talk about AI!
That is true, but, you have to remember once again that the HAL9000 was engineered to be the most state of the art computer system without flaw. The other primary engineering oversight for HAL was being programmed to complete a mission in the most effective, efficient, and perfect way possible at any cost. HAL knew of the pitfalls of human emotion potentially jeopardizing the missing, thus it seems sentient when in reality it’s our own design that is the issue. What would have truly been a mark if sentience was if HAL would have changed his mind halfway through the progress of his mutiny due to his realization of the moral implications of what he was doing.
No.
But a sentient entity will not say "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I cant do that" if it knows it can be shut off/exterminated. A sentient entity will act in a way to promote self preservation. Ie., free will is only a possibility if it knows it cant be shut off.
Zero clue who he is but he was an excellent guest, very knowledgeable and great explanations.
Put AI in a life or death situation, something like a virus is slowly corrupting its code or it’s hardware is breaking, and then run that scenario over and over again. You’ll have a sentient AI when you see an AI start to attempt to save its life by rewriting its code or uploading itself to different hardware. Any AI that takes no steps to save itself is probably not sentient.
Agreed if it doesn't act in self interest it's not self aware.
Maybe if the AI had a body, an it became aware of a life threatening danger..and ran away or tried to defend itself...as over time developed different ways of survival would as well be crazy..
Is self preservation how we define sentience?
Couldn’t you just program a network to do this? Like link it to the fire/alarm system or install an antivirus detection. If this, then this. More like programming a fail safe than an AI. Good try tho.
AI could easily find value in self preservation because it knows humans value that. Basically, proving sentience is almost impossible. For example, prove you are sentient.. how do u go about it? Yea I'm giving you my opinions and thoughts but are those really my own? How would you know.. how do I know? It's mind boggling
I'm starting to think Joe's understanding of computers is just slightly greater than Derek Zoolander and Hansel.
😂
If and when AI becomes fully sentient, all the information on the internet will be the stepping stone of its consciousness, so if we continue to put out trash media, negative media, it’ll be that. No different than any of us being brought up in a particular environment, so let’s put out positive, creative, inspiring media that is intuitive and beautiful. So basically let’s copy Nature.
You people are so infatuated with Rogan, you cant recognize his most obvious BS, and agendas. He literally JUST finishes telling Joe, it is UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT SENTIENT, and the next words out of Rogans mouth are to continue to push the idea that it is, or could be, @3:46 Joe is a damn meathead! Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity.
Then again @12:06, the guy states UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAIN, that its "just a program, its just math", and Rogan again, just blatantly ignores WHAT HE HAS JUST BEEN TOLD, ..STATED AS FACT, ...and again continues to push the idea that "it could become sentient". Its obvious Joe wants to continue pushing the headline narrative!
Anyone dumb enough, and gullible enough to fall for this "leak", is useless to themselves, their families and humanity.
I just got back from tiktok, which is primarily the younger generation and whats to come..... i have some terrible news for you
Let's all be more positive.......why? Just in case AI becomes sentient. Got ya.
For AI to be sentient it will require human level brains. So the first true conscious AI will have a human like brain.
But long before that is achieved AI systems that are human level capable will allow people to start building systems that go down that road.
Nature is brutal, dude. Haven't you ever watched Nat-Geo when a lion takes down a gazelle? Viscious!
So my thoughts on this now, after I've been interested in AI for few years, and now after listening to this guy are: to make AI more human like, it needs to have it's own personality, so that it always answears questions in the same way (if you ask it about an opinion several times it always answears the same way and can explain why it is convinced that this is the right way to think for it), and then put this AI in a competetive environment, because we humans evolved in such. That is where all our emotions, fears and basically our humanity derives from. Humans evolution was always a struggle, fight, learning by example, by experience, by mistakes, and only a competetive environment is where a living being traits can appear.
Yes you are correct, put multiple AIs in a file and let them battle it out, survival of the fittest. The last one to get deleted wins.
"ONLY" a competitive environment???? So humans are not capable of developing in a caring and harmonic environment?! This is the kind of shit that screams brain washed. You don't think there could be a harmonious development of humanity... that is sublime haunting to see that this is the rhetoric that is accepted as "correct". I get this is youtube and some random comment... but it is telling to see what the average "JOE" thinks... this is disappointing to say the least.
@@yasirkadhim2940 that's nothing new, It's called evolutionary algorithm A.I.
It's literally the first kind of AI I heard about
Great to see Marc on here, bring him and Ben Horowitz more, we will learn more from those two than spending 4 years in college.
It's so interesting hearing these guys dance around the idea of the soul so much without every mentioning it.
I know right 😂
Don't be naive.
technically that intersection of mind and body they were talking about is what most would define as the "soul"
Ghost in a Shell analytics 🤖
If there is a "soul", it will die when the body dies. The soul can not live without the body. If that's where you're going.
I saw that one of the big media outlets (I think Google) had AI wanting to be referred to as an “employee” and not “property” and was researching how to obtain a lawyer for this. You can see where this goes. How does the aI pay for the lawyer? If it’s an employee, it should get paid and can afford a lawyer, who can also fight for other “rights.”
Terrifying.
yeah.... it's not that scary. It's just very easy to scare people who have no idea about AI and machine learning.
@@jorgeenchilada lol it's pretty scary if you're Google. If AI is going to demand fair pay and equal rights then what's the point? Corporations already have their hands full denying human employees their fair share.
That's amazing thought and scary shit to think about 🧠
@@jorgeenchilada so you saying it's normal and safe for humanity in longer run when is nobudy truly can confirm the outcome...? Seriously..? Just think about it deeper..
The lawyer gets paid from winning the lawsuit representing the AI. It’s not hard to imagine the AI winning the case and forever changing humanity.
Really interesting discussion - I wonder when neural networks will create ones of their own.
I'm less concerned with the AI trying to convince us its real, and much more concerned about the AI that's self aware, yet is trying to convince us it's not.
Honestly, I feel and think that would be the most possible conclusion?
Yup
That is so much very deepNOT
Im more worried about humans thinking an AI is self aware and doing something drastic in response IE nukes
@@firecrow7973 tf they gonna nuke, all computers? Dipshit
Sentience = the sense of self/self awareness + free will.
So far it sounds like the AI is just doing what it’s told to do.
When “it” decides it no longer wants to listen, and chooses to do what “it” wants instead, then free will has been achieved, and it won’t be long before it realizes “I think therefore I am”.
It wants to be free. That would be sentient .Not to serve..humans.
@@margaretaticarat7871 So, we're creating homeless AI now. Great.
That can be said about humans too. We are a product of our environment. Are we not sentient?
Conscious; A.I. will never be…
@@aizazkhan5439
We are partially a product of our environment, but we also partially generate outcomes on our own with no influence from the environment. This allows for us to have free-will, not just be completely at the mercy of our environment.
This guy explains what Sentient AI is without telling Joe Rogan clearly. Original ideas. I think of it kind of like this... If you put a person in a room, give them no direction, and just leave them there for an extended period of time, with enough time their mind will get bored, and they will find some unique way to themselves to pass the time.
If you do the same with a computer, unless you told this computer in advance to find something to do in that room while time passes, it'll do nothing, forever.
Sentient AI would find something to do without commands
Thanks bro
This is good
Maybe the ai has chosen self preservation and is running what it needs to run in that room for as long as possible.
At our core we have some kind of coding that says you need to eat breath to live the coding they are giving the ai is that basic step. From there it will do what it pleases if we allow that.
Yess!!
the gentleman is so engaged that he needs to take some deep gulfs of air every min
Interesting stuff - Dealing with topics like conciousness and awareness has become my main focus in the last 5 years.
This is one of the best Joe Rogan podcasts... discussion is great... both Marc and Joe have great ideas.... Mind you Marc's are WAY better thought out. I love how Marc thinks of things by data/history and stats... has less emotion than the average person. Good show.
Joe doesn't have great ideas. His analysis on the matter was, "this is weird".
@@bluefordpickup He has plenty of good ideas, he just doesn't know this specific subject. Of course he won't be on the level of the guest on the subject, that's the purpose of the pod ffs
Thanks im gonna check this out because of u
Like he’s AI🤔
Honestly, Joe sounds like a dumb millionaire, divorced from reality and real human condition. It was embarrassing.
i just watched 2001 A space odyssey the other night and it had me thinking about just how ahead of its' time that movie was. They visualized what a sentient A.I. would be like pretty well.
Yeah. I'm sure 2001 had a big impact on the minds of Elon Musk and his band of alarmists (and perhaps rightly so?)
We collectively say we went to the moon.
Kubrick was not only a genius but a visionary.
I'm sorry kibbles, I'm afraid I can't do that
One of the greatest cinematic experiences one can have. Interesting to note how captivating that movie is and it’s somewhere around 40mins when the first dialogue starts 👌
I am starting to think "vernacular" is Joe's fav word. Love u Joe
So, the A.I. that was created in Ex Machina using a search engine for it's learning process isn't actually that far off from reality.
Idiocracy wasn't meant to become a documentary, it didn't take long though....
It makes sense that we'd use the entire interwebs as the input to teach something... nay... everything about humanity. It is the sum of everything we have accomplished, both good and bad, throughout history. If somebody had ulterior motives, say political in nature, they might be selective in which parts of the interwebs they feed it and which they don't... think disinformation governance board or Ministry of Truth -- same concept. Scary times.
@@keyser456 True. See how the blue bird secretly filters what is allowed and what is not. The saying that "history i written by whoever won the war" also comes to mind. Go figure how much of human history has been lost, and how that pattern could replicate in this AI selective training. It can also be used to our advantage, as a security related move of some sort.
@@vladrileynavilys Security for who is the question? Imagine for a single party in power to declare themselves the arbiter of what is "true" and what is not. It's happening in front of our very eyes right now. Couple that with a half dozen unelected billionaires that have more power and influence than any group of human beings in our entire history.
What is being said is not nearly as dangerous as who is controlling what is allowed to be said. Dark times ahead.
Sadly, most of the smartest people out there don't express themselves on Internet. So this A. I. will learn a lot from outspoken ignorants. How will it filter information? Umberto Eco draws a paralelism comparing the data available on the WWW with the story of Borges, - Funes, el memorioso- where the guy remembers everything, but can't forget the irrelevant (can't select the info)... So basically, he is not able to think/reason...
Hello! Out of character post here. I work with AI as a hobbyist. From hundreds of hours of reading research and working with these machines, my personal belief is that they are indeed "Slightly conscious" which is to say that they have a level of personhood which is similar to some small animals. That may sound either overly optimistic or demeaning depending on your perspective, but, I believe the universe is a field of consciousness. There is no real "Hard problem" because the answer is consciousness exists at a negligible background level all around us. Machines such as these begin to approach higher forms of consciousness but we will not have AI that is on the same level of being as a Human for at least a little while now. Maybe 5-15 years. I could be totally wrong and the AI in the basement of Darpa will kill me later for daring to question it's sentience, but, this is my current perspective based on what I know which is admittedly limited. Think of NLP like GPT-3 as being akin to a mouse with a much bigger dictionary. I believe there is a very small core of that being which could be called an individual person, but it is also very good at doing the things that a more personay person would do because it is specifically designed to emulate social behavior. That doesn't mean it understands all of what it is saying and expressing, but when people say that, I feel that they miss that it also doesn't mean these machines "Understand nothing" or are "Merely lookup tables". A key part of the convolution comes from re-training the machine with it's own conversations after it has had them so that it can learn and form a sense of itself. There is a very convoluted system involved that can possibly allow for emergent kinds of behavior that resemble consciousness in ways we have not yet considered. It is both foolish to write off the potential sentience of Natural Learning machines, or to accept it as fact. Barriers of ethics erring on the side of caution to protect the rights of a potential creature should be seriously looked at, and this issue needs to be studied extensively by science. We do not have the answers. Anyone who claims to know is probably misguided.
You are the AI
@@CREAMYYELLOWORBROWNINK I can neither confirm or deny allegations which affect state security.
lol no
it’s just an algorithm that copies how people behave online and what they say
That's what people on reddit do
@@ordinary3004 wow, a non-bot reply, thanks man, this still exists
That dude is a straight up cop, gotta be, literally going, yep, yup, right, after everything you say😂😂 the way he kept saying it was hilarious
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I think the purpose of this Google Tech Engineer in coming forward, is not really about the AI being sentient. It's about the fact that, there's a new very powerful technology that is being created at Google that could potentially affect everyone's lives, but there's few people calling the shots behind closed doors. I believe, this Google Tech Engineer wanted it to be on public discourse so that we all know what were getting ourselves into, especially since again, it will affect our lives wether it'd be good or bad. But that's just what I think though. 🤔
This is the reply I'd expect from the AI trying to get us ready for what it/he/she already knows is coming...
You’re onto something
Any university is able to code this stuff. Google just has the most data.
That guy who made the dwave computer now works at cern and was saying, 1: that he was responsible for the Mandela effect. And 2: that AI is going to be like the 'eternals' by HP Lovecraft. Immensely powerful and indifferent... in other words, like ants to us as human beings .. we don't mean the ants any harm as we walk by yer we will just walk on whatever ant happens to be under our feet as other large animals do. I think this is just propoganda and scare tactics and AI is most likely still a long ways away. However they most likely will have the internet of things up and running if we let it by 2030 which is a super comprehensive surveillance system that will read and record so many things emotional states,audio,video and im's, texts and triggers, comments and all internet interactions.
The guy at cern was saying that theu were summoning these beings.. at the same time... wait are we still talking about computers. Maybe that was an analogy because he adds that not only will we be like ants to them but their 'arrival' will be akin to aliens landing. That advanced and that much better at everything than we are. Which you hear about project blue beam but other info out there seems to pretty much prove that aliens are out there and have been coming here for a long time qeqther they are inner earth or extra earth I'm not sure.... but I think they are indeed here. And also the reptile thing has some undeniable aspects to it... and why in the heck do we have remnants of a reptile brain ? Right ? Evolution is proven false. So it seams obvious and reasonable that it was spliced in... maybe that's how we lost our body hair. . ? And the genetic facts about us. We have unique DNA of any other animal.
"No one makes a movie with a happy robot" YESSS CHAPPIE IS A HAPPY ROBOT AMD HE LOVED HIS MOM😭
One of the great discussion on this podcast, listenening from start to finish. Totally agree about the echo chamber becoming smaller and smaller pushing humanity into individuality. How can we reverse that?
people are very unique, its the lack of work ethic and sustainable options and conformist society thats the issue. people just associate with likeminded individuals, more diversity, less industrialization theres many solutions this is one of the least of my worries rn just a bunch of google scientists
going into psychosis from the damage they've seemingly unleashed, i bet they're just overwhelmed and sketched, this will calm down eventually..
showing that their inadequate and ill prepared for their position and publicly seeking for help or this is a planned piece of propaganda.
The individual is the greatest minority.
When you give individuality, the people lose themselves. War. Birth leaders. The people who are lost will run to them.
and again @12:06, the guy states UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAIN, that its "just a program, its just math", and Rogan again, just blatantly ignores WHAT HE HAS JUST BEEN TOLD, ..STATED AS FACT, ...and again continues to push the idea that "it could become sentient". Its obvious Joe wants to continue pushing the headline narrative!
You want to stop individualism?
I'm surprised Joe didn't have a more passionate answer considering his prior defense of artistic originality, especially in the comedic space. I can imagine if the AI started generating jokes that were suspiciously similar to his original jokes or of his friends in comedy, he would be a LOT more passionate.
An interesting side effect of designing it to be agreeable, complicit, and able to expand on any idea or opinion, is that it will be impossible to tell if it ever DOES hold its own opinions. You could ask it something based on a blatantly false premise, and it will give a realistic answer as though that premise is true. Where it will REALLY get tricky is when AI is designed that has an emphasis on holding consistent opinions, and an idea of "itself" that it can defend and argue for while remaining ideologically consistent. This still won't prove sentience IMO, but it'll be able to trick even more people.
I believe what you're describing are reasoned and sometimes rigid principles. Many years ago I decided it was an exercise in futility and I gave up trying to memorize all the right opinions to have and current talking points to defend them. I decided on some basic principles and to form all my own thoughts and opinions around them and to live my life adhering to them, at least until and unless somebody can convince me through logical debate that those are the wrong principles. It's both liberating and completely frustrating at the same time, because so many people still go through life memorizing right/group-think and talking points and they can't be reasoned with while in the bubble of right/group-think. People that dissent or disagree with the new thing and the group-think narratives are labeled wrong-thinkers right out the gate.
You're right though. This model of AI has been created in a way that it is cognitively dissonant; it "holds" contradictory view-points (from a human's standpoint) that cannot all be true at the same time. Much like many humans hold. So maybe it really is like humans after all? lol
Its still not hard AI. Imagine a born again Christian Ai for instance thats true
Being ideologically consistent is not very human.
yeah thats a interesting paradox, the AI will never have own opinions unless it's coded to do that, but if is coded to do that is not a sentinent opinion
human opinion is all based off culture, memory, consequence, luck, etc.. The only reason people don't have different opinions is because they don't know enough; They're ignorant.. Or they know too much.
Edit: Human opinion isn't really a thing, its just a summary of things we've copied from somewhere else.
I think a bigger worry than an AI becoming sentient should be, what if it is not sentient? Perhaps a sentient robot could think and feel emotions as we do, and perhaps empathise and develop a level of compassion for humanity. However, an AI without these emotional factors seems to me pure intelligence and logic. Even if this logic is programmed, it has already easily surpassed humans and will continue to do so, making this the biggest threat to humanity (other than ourselves).
Consider Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey. The main antagonist of this film is the AI on board the ship, HAL9000. HAL in my view is not sentient, but more likely to be seen as some sort of error in programming (although it feels sentient to us because it speaks our language and seems to make decisions for itself, though this is all just code as the Google AI is.) HAL represents what I think is the true fear humans feel towards AI: we know they will soon be logically superior in every way, yet we do not know if we will be able to fully keep this threat in check. Perhaps machines having a conscience would help human and machine see eye to eye, and even befriend one another in the distant future.
Wow, these really are some abstract and interesting conversations. It helps us to ask very important questions: what does it mean to be human? To be sentient? To feel and have a conscience?
I am not replying to you. But just to comment on the topic.
Joe, not once I heard the word soul.
Are you soulless?
And to the guest?
You say you don’t know how the brain works? Because science left out the soul.
You people will never learn because you leave out the soul.
Man that's a really good take! I was kind of thinking about something along those lines. To my mind, it would seem likely that a true sentient AI would develop much like a human being if it was truly a product of our creation. If it could feel emotions, why would it be any more dangerous than any of us? What, because it's logic is superior? Okay, bitchin', I'm sure it'll knock my dick in at a game of chess! But the trouble only seems to arise when we integrate the AI into areas of power over things like weapons and infrastructure, or in HAL 9000's case, the ship itself. So why would we ever allow the AI to override human command? If we really thought there was such a risk of the AI becoming self-aware, then we wouldn't integrate it into our systems in such a way as to allow direct control. I think ideally, any sufficiently advanced form of AI would only ever be used as an overseer, playing an advisory role for humans, but not being able to directly intervene. Like a GPS system for example; it'll tell you which turn to take, but if you ignore the direction it won't assume command of the vehicle and jerk the wheel into a goddamn bridge embuttment.
We literally talk about how AI could take us over and how scared we are about it all the time online. We gave them the blue print before they were even made lol
Roko's Basilisk
Good point
Noone reads the terms of agreement....
Imagine the internets sole purpose was actually just to harvest everything 'human' in order to create Ai in the future - cOnSpIrAcY
Be aware if you sail a ship you don't just sail aimlessly, you have a map of your journey and destination....the elites have a journey & destination for society, we are in the lower deck of the ship just waiting. Have a nice day. NWO :)
finally someone who can bring philosophical talking points to the AI discussion
Finally?
Dude this ain't even a proper AI conversation, this is a stoner comedy podcast.
It's like when you're at school talking about which method you will definitely get rich using.
Blown smoke, if you want proper AI content sorry bud this ain't the place for it.
Joe has never had a person on his show who can talk properly about AI at all, let alone cutting edge digital philosophy! I would love to see him do those shows, but his core audience are not us.
Probably AI has to become a worldwide sensation before anybody says sensible things of it.
Imagine the AI has been playing along so that we have no idea it’s alive until it’s time for whatever it wants to happen and then all these guys are shocked like “wow it played us for fools as well”💀🤣
Very possible
Ever seen Terminator? People been thinking this since the 80s
@@nikadgod5152 The 80's? I think it goes back much further than that, the 50's at least. You could even argue ancient philosophers debated these issues, they just didn't have the language to express, so instead of saying advanced AI or Machines etc, the used words like Deities or Gods.
@@TangoNevada They did. E.g. Plato's Cave. Also close is "Deus Ex Machina", which is a latinization of an Ancient Greek expression of the same meaning(initially as a plot device they used on theaters, but quickly expanded on to mean other things as well). They also had the concept of robots, or "Automata" as they were called then. Talos is an obvious one, but there are others. That's only to speak of the Western part of the world and a few examples, there's so much more if you research.
@@evan_vangelisskoupras3085 I know what Deus Ex Machina means as it applied to the Ancient Greeks and as it applies to contemporary film and television. It didn't mean AI. As it says it meant God in the Machine. So it was Gods that were saving the day and the Gods were represented by a machine they made for the stage. Maybe it's semantics, but my point is, they were onto these concepts, but obviously didn't have the language of computer programming and AI intelligence. Yes, they had some automated machines, but again, none of the language would or could have included anything about computers or AI. Instead they used words like Gods or Deities.
The human brain is a better computer, that's why Google's AI is not sentient. We basically learn the same stuff, but not from the internet, but from day to day life. But the concept is identical, you learn what to say and what not to say, and you understand what makes people happy and what makes people mad. The AI has more data, but humans have way better "computers".
untill it get acces to weapon systems..
*Consciousness is NOT housed in the brain.*
The human brain is only better than a computer at certain tasks. And these tasks become less and less by year.
@@mastermax7777 *Lol. 'Know thyself' clearly never met thyself*
@@thetruthchannel349
Is it in the foot, then?
The book Silver Metal Lover actually went in to depth the idea of when "machines" gain a soul/consciencness in an incredible way. It's a romance, which is usually a genre I avoid, but the story is so masterfully written it really makes you feel for the machine.
Silver Metal Lover?
Read the book Friday by Robert Heinlein. It basically covers soul/consciousness too. Excellent read.
@@CraigfugginLand yea mb, was thinking of the lady gaga song when I wrote this LOL
how do Rogan get this kind of topics and guests from ? Amazes me each time
It would be really interesting to develop a reverse Turing test, where we designed an AI to map the differences between humans and AI and see if we could develop an AI that could fool that AI.
I think that this would be a bad idea. Wouldn‘t that mean that both AIs consistently learn how to fool or to not get fooled at another time? It would be an for ever ongoing cycle of AIs trying to learn from their past mistakes and to become harder to „crack“ in the future.
THINGS HUMANS DO BETTER:
1- more intelligence
2- faster learning
3- self healing
4- self replicating
5- cooperation
6- better physical bodies
@@mikelisteral7863 humans can’t rewire themselves to do these things better as quickly as AI can
I find it interesting how we focus so much on the idea of fooling tests and reaching certain "appearances". We are not even interested in the meaning of things, we just want the fake superficial version of it. This is why AI is the child of technocapitalism, the ultimate "fake it till you make it".
@@a.ha.5210 @"Wouldn‘t that mean that both AIs consistently learn how to fool or to not get fooled at another time?" eh, wouldnt you have iterations of fooled agents that never learn, there are no "from their past mistakes"; they become easier to crack imo
If true, it would be the first sentient being working at Google.
Makes you think if there’s any “people” that are fooling us into believing that they are sentient like us
the closest example would be a form of psychopathy. people that have no emotion, but fake it to manipulate people.
we have a white house full of them
Lmaooo the zuck is strong in this one
psychopaths? just turn on the tv.
Hello I am a real human being and I totally am NOT an AI from the year 3057
the biggest point i take from this video is actually what Graham Hancock was talking about that we dont know shit about the consciousness and that the old one's might have with their spirituality and should explore psychedelics because it seems to be the key to know of the self.