How exactly did radar guided AA work from detection to fire control to sending this all back to the guns and getting efficient radar directed fire, suitable to replace human operated fire.
Admiral: "You're a what!?!" Ship: "A submarine. There, I said it, I'm a Sub and I'm proud." Admiral: " No, no, NO! We're surface people. I will not tolerate any of that deviant diving behavior in this family." Ship: "This is who I am. Why can't you accept it?" Admiral: "It isn't natural. What am I going to tell the other Admirals? Meet my new fleet, 100 ships strong. Just ignore the one sitting on the bottom?" Ship: "It's always about you! What about me? My feelings matter, I matter!" *Storms out* Mommy Admiral: "Calm down dear. It's just a phase. I'm sure things will work out."
@@paulstewart6293this is also a theory on ships sinking in the Bermuda Triangle, large amounts of natural gas/CO2 trapped in pockets very close to the surface of the ocean floor suddenly being released by tectonic activity, among other things, as a ship just so happens to be passing over head on the surface and the MASSIVE amount of bubbles drastically reduces the ships buoyancy causing them to suddenly and violently sunk with virtually no warning or time to get off a distress signal.
@@jordannewsom4578 Air bubbles like that moving water is one reason why depth charges are so effective against submarines. They make a huge bubble that causes water to move really fast, that's very deadly to submarines but if a similar bubble popped underneath a surface ship it would still cause damage.
A couple of comments: When I went through basic survival in USN bootcamp ~1990 we were taught not to put on the kapok lifevests before getting into the water. The momentum of entering the water from a jump from 40-60 feet from a ship's weather deck/flight deck was such that the kapok's buoyancy would act to increase the forces acting on your body, with the worst cases causing broken bones, or even tearing the life vest away from your body. Instead we were told to secure the vest to ourselves with a lanyard if at all possible, throw it in first, and then jump to follow it. With an inflatable life vest, it was emphasized that the vest would be put on before going into the water - but not to inflate it until after one were in the water, for much the same reasons.
Regarding inflatable life vests, anybody who has listened to the instructions on an airplane knows not to inflate them before exiting the vehicle. Reason for this is not only the impact, but primarily that an inflated life vests hinders your movement significantly. Exiting a sinking vahicle rapidly is paramount.
@@mxaxai9266 the problem with that is that many life vests auto inflate after a minute or two in the water. If you're conscious after the water landing, it's probably a good idea to take it back off until you're actually off the plane.
@@wyattroncin941 the ones used on commercial aircraft have two straps (one on each side) that you need to pull to inflate. I don't think I've ever seen a different design. Ships or private & military aircraft may carry life vests that auto-inflate. If you're not trapped in a sinking vessel but are in danger of being swept overboard or parachuting into the ocean that type would probably be quite handy.
@@mxaxai9266 looked it up and I was mistaken. FAA life vests do not auto inflate, specifically to prevent getting trapped by the water. USCG inflatable life vests, such as on cruise ships, do auto inflate. So that's probably where I got that idea from.
Or when it is Kamchatka. Remember when 2nd pacific drop anchor at Madagascar one of the Kamchatka"s crew did try to get out of the ship citing "ship being disagreeable" as reason.
@@psychoaiko666 Honestly if it ever actually appears in WoWs and I see it while sailing a DD, ill torpedo it on the principle, and twice if it is on my team
"Oh dear, the ship is being disagreeable today." Sounds like something an English captain would say while his ship is both sinking and on fire. STIFF UPPER LIP, CHAPS.
"There is good news, and there is some bad news. For the good news, soon, the ship will no longer be on fire. For the bad mews, that will be due to it being fully under water."
Notes from a USN vet: 1. All enlisted sailors were required to pass a practical swimming test in boot camp. Company marched to an Olympic-sized indoor pool for an all day event. Everyone was required to swim from one end of the pool to the far end and back without touching the bottom in a timed swim. Folks who could not swim went to class several times per week until they could and would not be allowed to graduate boot camp until they could pass the tests. This was also the day to volunteer for the SEALS, if desired, as they were the swim instructors. We were also required to demonstrate, while treading water, to remove our pants, knot off the leg openings and slam the pants down into the water waist first thereby trapping air to make buoyant water wings of sort. The same with our white hats. Better than nothing, I guess. 2. We were instructed to and required to demonstrate by jumping off a swim platform: do not wear a kapok life jacket when jumping into the water as you will likely injure yourself. We were instructed to grab it by the straps, jump feet first and crossed with jacket held over your head and the other hand over the family jewels. You could be jumping from a hundred feet plus into the water. 3, Keep all your clothes, sun exposure will be a long term enemy if in warm enough water to survive. 4. All USN ships are equipped with Mark 6 25/50-man life rafts in canisters lashed in various locations. The canisters are equipped with latches that automatically unlocked to release the rafts when under water to pop to the surface. Total raft capacity is at a minimum 110% of crew complement. 5. I do not have a reference for this handy but I think it is from James D Hornfischer's Neptune's Inferno: USN depth charges had a habit of exploding as a DD/CL sunk whether or not the safeties were engaged. It was found that the vast number of deaths were caused by the shock wave entering and rupturing the intestines so float on your stomach with butt out of the water if exploding ordinance is of concern.
I was in the USN 1975 to 1980, and I can validate all you have said. Short of something completely cataphoric, you had a fair chance of survival, provided you were not dropping in 32 F water. Those liferafts are stocked with water, and they have flares and smoke pyrotechnics on them. Given the number of US Warships, if you survive at all and make it to one of the rafts, you have a fair shot at survival.
Rather nice that the pants blouse and hat on a navy uniform are a flotation device. We had to kick our boots off and inflate our coveralls, you kept your boots handy tho incase you came across land, be a shame to cut your feet up on the rocks trying to get ashore
Same when i went through training in 2009. Though we had more modern safety gear to train with. Beacons and smoke pots activated by a lanyard pull or immersion in water. (Suppossedly in watertight canisters untill event of ship sinking occurs.)
@@dragonalpha9894 One of the things that isn't mentioned here, given the WW2 cut off is that US Naval men of war are interconnected on NTDS and Link 16. Should a ship go down one can reasonably expect that help is on the way.
US Coastie here. Brave fool that goes and does the saving. You nailed it on the cold water sapping your energy. By policy we have to leak test our drysuits in the coldest water our Area of Responsibility experiences. From my experience, 10 mins with three layers is almost enough to prevent us from getting out of the water by the pier we jumped off. In fact we go by the 3-2-1 rule for cold water survival. 30 mins of meaningful movement. Afterwords 20 mins until unconsciousness, and another 10 mins until death. That's without any protective gear.
Having survived the sinking of HMS Fittleton I should have something to add but the first few minutes seam to be covered quite well. I was one of the later ones to be picked up and that was a bit over half an hour after the collision so only the initial bit applies. Maybe add get your boots off.
Swedish Navy boots differ from Swedish infantry and tankers boots in that, while they do have steel toe caps like the tanker boots, infantry boots have plastic toe caps, the navy boots also have water proof side zippers that go all the way to the sole of the boot.
It reads like that happened so quickly! What were you doing when the collision happened, and how damn surprised did you feel to be suddenly capsized and in the water?
My grandfather was in merchant marines in WW2. He was a engineer so in engine room. His ship got hit (have to ask dad for the name of it) and well into the water he went. Side note we found out the uboat caption was a uboat Ace decerated 2 times by Hitler, so hey Atleast the best got him. So into the water he went. Considering he worked in engine room it's great he got out as many down there don't make it. Over comes the destroyer who armed depth charges and running around trying to get the uboat. After a bit the destroyer stoped to pick up survives, one being my grandfather. Well that's good except standing orders was never to stop the boat as easy to torpedo. Well ya another uboat got the destroyer. Down that went and back in the water. But note the depth charges where armed so the ship went lower and boom they went off. So that got many more. That said grandfather was picked up by another passing ship. So sunk 2 times in the Atlantic in the same day and lived.
Grandpa gets 2 medals. One for being the luckiest sailor in the Merchant Marine- one for being the unluckiest.. IMHO- Every branch of the service should bow when the Merchant Marine enters a room. The highest casualty rate of all the U.S. service branches in WW2- with the added bonus that generally they were also unarmed..
@CipiRipi00 I am surprised he was allowed, but they needed every able and willing man they could find, i guess. Maybe your grandfather told them third time the charm, put me on the ship most available NOW.
Well, what about all the other people who possibly survived both ships to make it to a new one? Surely your grandfarther wasnt the only one to survive both ships, mabby they were cursed, probably not, but mabby they were. And the chances of a ship being sunk while picking up survivors from a sunken ship is quite high when you have an enemy still present and active. Im sure the same thing has happened to many ships in the past.
@@darrellsmith4204 I never knew the Merchant Navy had the highest casualty rate. I would have guessed Bomber Crews were the highest for the Brits and Submariners were the highest for late war Germany
Back in the eighties my brother did his first mate's ticket. Part of this was a safety course in which the candidates have to jump from a tower the same height as a bridge wing into the water wearing a life jacket. In those days life jackets didn't have a strap going under the crotch (in fact I don't actually know if they do now) so my brother says when he hit the water he immediately shot out of the life jacket and only just managed to snag it with his fingers. Another story told by my dad's friends who served on a merchant ship was that during The Second World War a friend of his was so worried, with considerable justification, of being torpedoed that he wore his kapok life preserver in his bunk, about his duties and pretty much everywhere aboard. Lucking he made it right through the war without being torpedoed and during the celebrations for V Day he came up on deck to the acclaim of his shipmates and threw the life preserver over the side. It sunk straight to the bottom of the harbour.
About Crotch-Straps: At least the German Navy has them on their Jackets, during Training we had to Jump with the Lifejacket allready inflated too and nobody warned us to loosen the Strap before doing so ....ouch, big time ouch !
Life vests back then were filled with cork. Over time, it would degrade, especially if he was wearing it all the time, even when sleeping, would help crumble the cork into powder and eliminate its buoyancy. Even in storage, they had to be replaced every so often.
As a submariner, my options were a submerged escape (if in shallow enough water) to suffer through the hazards in this video, death by asphyxiation, death by fire, death by implosion, death by hypothermia, death by impalement, death by radiation, ...
WWI-WWII submariners faced largely the same hazards (sans radiation, of course). They had the advantage that they usually ran surfaced or at shallower depths, meaning getting out of a stricken boat alive was slightly more likely, but this was not necessarily a good thing, as the small size of submarines at the time meant they couldn't carry much if any survival equipment.
On a small boat always stay with the boat. They seldom sink. Some years ago I sailed competitively, travelling to numerous locations. During one event on a very cold mountain lake a sudden storm blew down from the mountains. A violent gust carried me over the side of the boat but I was able to grab the lifeline at the rail. The boat was then knocked down on its side pinning me perhaps 5 feet under the frigid water. I held on to the life line and held my breath, knowing the boat would stand back up as the gust dies. the statistics for people separated from their boat in foul weather are grim. Eventually the line came above water, barely, and I was able to gasp a breath. Struggle as I did I couldn't climb into the boat and the other 3 crew were occupied with immediate emergencies preserving the boat. Finally when they were able to assist me I had to be dragged physically back into the boat like so much dead weight. I was weak as a baby from perhaps perhaps a full minute in the icy water. It seemed like it took forever but it could only have been moments but back on board I could not stand or even sit up under my own power. Without flotation and proper gear I would certainly have lost my grip on the line and died. The storm and conditions on the water had become far to rough for the rescue of a helpless body in the water. Any time you leave shore your vessel should be prepared to be self-sufficient. The crew must know their duties and be properly equipped. Cruise ships or warships, there is no difference. Without my able crewmates I would have died. Oh, yes we won that race. As we used to say, you ain't racin' till you're bleeding.
And people have been lost when the boat they were on DIDN’T sink as they were expecting. Even if it becomes less-than-navigable (perhaps due to being upside down, for example) if it doesn’t sink entirely then you may be able to use it for flotation, plus it’s easier to spot and so on. One person I know likes the saying “don’t get off the boat until you have to step UP into the life raft.” And for bleep’s sake have appropriate safety gear - including things like EPIRBs that will help people find you. The ocean is a very large place to look.
As a navy vet and later tall ship sailor, we were always taught to never abandon ship unless absolutely necessary. The saying was “always step up into the ocean”.
Small enough boats - especially those with motors instead of sails - are _not allowed_ to sink by law; they're required to have foam-filled bouyancy compartments such that even if you completely swamp the boat, it will not sink, _cannot_ sink... the only way you could *maybe* sink one is enough rounds of 50-cal or the like such that it shoves enough foam out of the boat... but at that point you've either long since abandoned ship, or are so much fish food _already_.
WW4 ship: I'm leaking human muscle power (ref: Einstein's quote "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." )
@@Epic24123 Hey, what you want to image is your business! :-) Just to clarify for anyone not "getting" it, by WW4 we will be back to galleys rowing towards each other at ramming speed.
Most folks have a hard time with concepts such as cube law etc. You could infact simulate it small scale but you need to increase the density of the object going down and scale the object being dragged down by its density and size accordingly (taking into account that this relationship is not linear)
Sailors were horrified by the thought of soldiers being shelled, with only a hole in the ground to hide in. The soldiers reminded them that while foxholes can be wet, none have ever sunk in the ocean and the only sharks they have to deal with, just take your money after winning at pool.
@Alexander Challis Great Respect for your father and his service! I've always thought that some of the bravest sailors were those who manned the engine rooms, knowing how little chance of escape they had if their ship was sunk. Even a ball turret gunner on a B-17, at least got to shoot back at his enemies.
"If you are in a Carly Float, you can cannibalize..." WAIT WHAT "... fishing supplies from the craft's complex construction." nearly spat my drink out haha...
Having escaped a sinking once, i can confirm alot of this personally. Having violently turned over, 3 of us got into the water, objects from the deck hit and hurt us, one got pinned ( the sinking freed him ) we all surfaced lightly wounded, and called out to eachother, yet one of us got caught in rope and was being dragged down with the sinking ship quickly after, my other friend released her after two dives, which was a very close call. While trying to keep her head above the surface, I faced the situation of having to let her go or drown myself, however she did, she disapeared and my friend released the rope seconds later. They both sufaced, and a hour later we where all on shore. Sinking is a violent event and can be traumatic, keep calm is indeed the best advice, we all survived because calm aloud us to think.Thanks for the video Drachinifel.
A note on cork life preservers: Hope that they are relatively new and that they are exchanged for new ones fairly often as cork does degrade over time, and if left to rot for too long when the time comes to use them you might find that the cork has rotted to dust and has all of the lifting capacity of slinging two bags of flour around your neck. One of the most tragic cases in point for this, as well as the point of panic-stricken fellow survivors, came on June 15, 1904, when the excursion steamboat General Slocum caught fire on New York City's East River. Not only were the life vests stored in wire mesh above passengers' heads (accounts of victims lacerating their fingers to the point of blood dripping down trying to get the meshes loose), but even once freed it was found that these life vests had been bought 13 years prior when the ship was built and never replaced. Many split open to reveal their dusty contents of... dust, and those frantic mothers who put the life belts on their children before casting them over the side then got to watch little Timmy and Gertrude sink like stones. Even when in the water passengers found themselves dragged down by their heavy Victorian/Edwardian garb while other victims, frantic to save their own lives, saw those staying afloat as being as good as an island. Just a few of the many reasons why of an estimated 1,400 passengers and crew, over 1,000 perished in the worst disaster in New York's history prior to Sept. 11, 2001.
I was on a small ferry last year, and I didn't have a lot of confidence in their stuff, also the vests were in netting above our heads. I don't remember which boat it was exactly. Could have been a ferry in New York, but also Toronto, Chicago, on several places on the St. Lawrence. We did 7 ferries is 3 weeks.
No names, but I used to work for a company that did boat tours on 150 passenger boats. One fine day it was time for that boat to go to the drydock for service, which meant emptying all the storage spaces. That's how I found out half the life vests were being stored in a crawlspace that only the skinniest crewmember could get into, hands and knees, cursing and tossing them into the corridor When I asked the captain how in the name of Neptune's kelpy testicles he intended to get those out in an abandon ship situation, well...
"It won't hurt for long" - a line I heard in a WWI fighter plane video...If you're gonna die, there are ways and ways. A long slow one via exposure - given that the ending is the same - seems even worse.
Thank you for giving me a reason to stop dieting. I realize the chances of my falling from Indiana into the North Atlantic is rather remote, but why take unnecessary risks?
When I arrived in Vietnam back in November 1968 I was assigned to the 11 Field Force 64th Engineer Terrain Unit assigned to headquarters. We were in the costal city of Nha Trang and a few days after arrival a typhoon hit Vietnam. I always loved swimming so soon I was in the water enjoying the South China Sea. What I did not know was the presence of a strong undertoe. I rode a few waves and then suddenly I was pulled under and was swimming to the surface with all my power. I actually almost drown. It was my first experience with a strong undertoe gripping my body. When I returned to my unit, I never told of my experience as it was too embarrassing! To this day I never swim during a typhoon or hurricane. Never underestimate to power of water. It can be stronger then you will ever know!!
So I'd like to mention that something rather unfortunate about life jackets. They can and do occasionally pose a threat even when your not in the water. Jumping off a ship unless the deck is about 10 to 15 feet off the surface of the water, that jump is going to hurt quite a bit if your wearing a life jacket. I've had the rather unfortunate pleasure of jumping off a ship wearing a life jacket and while I didn't get injured, some of my ship mates hit the water worse than me and ended with some fairly bad head and neck trauma. (Nothing too serious, thankfully it was all for training so they could just go down to medical immediately after they pulled themselves back aboard) It is advisable anything above 15 feet really to not put on the life jacket untill your in the water, unless your content with hoping the ship is sinking at a slow enough speed to wait untill you've only got a dozen feet between you and the water. For various reasons you mentioned this probably isn't advisable.
True. During my time in the Navy, we actually practized jumping into the water with life jackets on. It was only from a height of 5 meters, but still only funny until you actually hit the water.
You can jump from quite high levels with a life jacket - offshore oil workers are trained to jump from upto 40m (120ft) up (water is more friendly than a gas fire). The key is to hold the neck line and enter the water, braced and feet first (with your boots on). Finding a jacket in the water on a dark night is just about impossible and survival without flotation is limited to a couple of hours. Getting lifejackets on in the water is an even bigger feat.
My first job in the U.S. Navy was working on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. During flight operations we wore inflatable life jackets. It was an approximately 90 foot drop from the flight deck to the waterline. We were told that we should not attempt to inflate the life jackets until AFTER we had entered the water. As far as the oil workers that Allan Gibson mentioned, I would wonder whether or not they were using inflatable life jackets. If they were, then the height they were jumping from would not be much of an issue. They would just have to hope that they landed in such a manner that they were not knocked unconscious and could then inflate their vests (though I suppose these days the vests might be rigged to inflate themselves after immersion). If the life vest is always buoyant, then the height limits to jumping mentioned by Doctor End make a lot of sense, as that would be in accordance with the reasons we were given for not inflating a life vest early.
@@minarchist1776 The inflatable vest I always wore while on deck and underway did indeed have a water sensor that would inflate the vest after a couple seconds of immersion. I was on a sailboat, so I wouldn't have to jump from more than about 2 meters, but being unconscious in the water will cause rapid drowning. With an inflated vest that has neck support, you still have a chance of survival even if unconscious.
I read somewhere that the cork life vests were noted for knocking people unconscious when a cork block would hit the water and then whack the wearer in the chin.
There's a book about Canadian convoy escorts i n WW 2 that mentions a pretty amazing incident: a destroyer sighted what looked like 2 men standing in the middle of the ocean waving their arms. It turned out they were standing on the stern of their submerged ship, and had been for 2 days (I think) up to their waists in water.
I remember when I was first assigned to the 25th Infantry in Hawaii we were required to undergo "drown proofing" as part of this training while in full combat gear minus our rifles, we jumped off a high dive into a pool. Step 1 was to remove your ruck sack and toss it into the water. Step 2 was to unstrap your helmet so it wouldn't break your neck upon entering the water, you would throw it clear on the way down so it wouldn't hit you. Step 3 try to relax not panic and remove your boots. Step 4 was to remove your pants and tie the legs tightly together. Step 5 put the legs around your neck and lean back while holding the waist lift it out of the water and try to capture a large air bubble in them. Then you could splash down air bubbles to further fill the trousers. They would remain reasonably full and buoyant as long as you kept them wet and occasionally splashed more air in them. This would allow you to conserve much needed energy. I have tried this with denim and it worked equally well. Lastly remove any unnecessary equipment such as your LBE (Load Bearing Equipment - Suspenders with ammo pouches etc.) Keep the canteen though if it has fresh water also when empty it too can create a little buoyancy, especially if it is the two quart bladder type. I may be off a little and it may have changed over time this training was almost 40 years ago for me in the early 80's Thank you Drachinifel for your channel and posts, I enjoy them all and have listened to many of them several times over.
I retired back in 08, and drown proofing was pretty much the same. Only difference was that we made sure too hold our collar tight on the way in, that way we had a air bubble, that would( hopefully) keep you up long enough to get your bottoms off. We also waterproof the hell out of our rucks, to use them as flotation devices. I'm so glad I joined the Army, that way I could avoid all of the nastiness that Drach just went over!
From a USN enlisted sailor's point of view, Steps 3 on were taught during basic training back in the early '80s when I enlisted. Back then the dungaree pants we were issued were similar to typical jeans but with a flared ankle or "bell bottom". This looseness aided in removal. With the current set of on board work gear, I don't know if sailors would be able to get out of them and set them up to function as make-shift life preservers. Another plus was that the light blue chambray shirt and white undershirt were bright enough compared to the surrounding water to aid those searching for survivors, etc. The more recent sets of uniforms came with dark blue undershirts and dark, digital blue pants and shirts, thereby almost guaranteeing that if you survived the initial sinking, the odds of being spotted in the water were practically nil. (Me - USN Active duty 1983 - 1989, Reserve 1989 - 2019)
The best advice I was given when I did my sea survival course was that your ship is the best lifeboat you have, try not to lose it in the first place! Something we tend to forget in our modern world of mobile communication, is that this world is not our friend. Outside of our towns even a relatively minor injury can still result in death if you don't have signal and that's on land. On water it's a hundredfold worse, you could be within sight of a packed beach filled with hundreds of people, but to all intents and purposes you may as well be on the moon. Here in the UK, even though we've largely lost most of our maritime traditions, I'm rather proud to say we still haven't lost the idea of sailors united against the sea. It's personified in the largely volunteer based RNLI, who still go out to save anyone who needs it. It's just a shame that I don't live close enough to a station to volunteer myself. On that subject: have you thought about doing a video/videos based around the RNLI, their history, their boats or even some of the more dramatic rescues?
Basically any and all coast guards deserve mad respect chances are there underfunded and undermanned and they still work there asses off every day to save lives
I assisted with training of cabin crew for a passenger ferry operator for a couple of seasons. The number of them that sat bored, only half listening thinking "why am I learning this stuff?" was scary. It was usually the liferaft training in the water that had them wise up and finally realise they've not gotten a job in McDonald's here 😂 One of the first Officers would always open with "if the company could they'd have the ships filled with vending machines and you wouldn't be here! You are not on ship to serve cups of tea, pull pints and sell tacky gifts. You are on ship to keep people safe and save lives if and when required. THAT is your job!" The company used to hate him for saying it but he wasn't wrong. Video on RNLI and Coastwatch here would be really good. I don't think a lot of ppl outside the UK realise how amazing they are and that they are charity mostly volunteer service.
@@MoA-Reload... Indeed, of course, the coastguard is certainly helpful too though they are especially helpful when search operations are required because helis are damn useful when you need to find a very small needle in a very large haystack with minimal time.
About 40 years ago, I worked with A WWII US Navy veteran who had 5 different ships "sunk from underneath him" (as he put it). I forgot the names of the ships (he did tell me, I'm sure) but did find him listed as a survivor of the USS Helena on which he had served with my friend's dad (small world).
This makes me respect what my great grandfather went through while in the navy alot more than i already did. He was apart of the West Loch disaster (also known as The Second Pearl Harbor to some). He was aboard a LST that was destroyed and i cant even begin to imagine the horrors he must have went through. Luckily he escaped with his life and lived on until just a couple years ago when he died in his late 90s. He was a tough SOB for a fact.
when I was in the U.S. Navy in the 1970s, we were taught that if you don't have a life jacket, you can take your trousers off, tie knots in the legs and blow air into them and they will keep you afloat. It worked in a swimming pool. In the North Atlantic? Doubtful. I was in the engine room of the USS Guam, a helicopter carrier. I was part of the salvage crew that in the event of the ship sinking, we were supposed to break off sea-chest blowdown valves to ensure that the ship sinks. Once that was done, we would go to the hangar deck of the ship where a liberty boat would be reserved for us. The four liberty boats were stored in two portable racks (two in each, on on top of the other) that could be moved by a small truck. Then they would be lowered into the water by the boat and aircraft crane on the starboard side. All very nice. In other words, we were doomed.
That's why Drach's advice at the start to remove your big woollen greatcoat is wrong. A greatcoat in the water will not only delay hypothermia, it will trap air and add flotation. And anything woollen will not become waterlogged at all.
I have heard of people sliding down the hull of listing ship and breaking there legs on a bilge keel. I heard this from somone who surved on a friget in the Falklands War, so i'm gussing it happend during that conflict.
@@badpossum440 That's what I was going to reply. It's not like going down a sliding board at the park or pool. Above the surface there are just the plate seams and occasional fittings. Every surface below the waterline is covered by marine life that is far bigger, sharper and harder than most people realize.
i was once tasked to prepping the hull of 2 50 foot boats for painting. it took me a week to get off the barnicles that were 4 inches thick and harder then anything i knew at the time.
You are so incredibly tacktfull and respecting and yet you manage to present even topics like this with some forme of humor and in a very enjoyable way. There is just noone else like you out there
29:50 Ah yes the 'Doctrine of presumed insanity'. I remember that one from my white water rescue course. having got quite close to drowning in a fast flowing river I can attest to the fact that even with a lot of training in what to do when removed from your vessel and a lot of practice at doing so in controlled circumstances the panic can still set in if you've spent the last few minutes getting about 2 breaths a minute and not knowing which way is up.
I went on a white water rafting trip near Ottawa once. The guide gave everyone in the raft a briefing on safety procedures, particularly what to do if we fell out of the raft while going through the rapids. On the very first rapid, he tumbled head-first out of the back of the raft. As ordered, I directed the crew to paddle directly for the nearest eddy and parked the raft there. When I looked for the kayak that was supposed to fish people out of the water, I saw our guide, breaking every rule he had laid down for us, swimming after the raft. I just shook my head and fished him out myself. No injuries, but it could have turned out very differently.
Kamchatka: not actually sinking. Men ordered to abandon ship as it is sinking. Everyone gets to a safe distance. Retarded captain then shoots at the men in the water thinking they are japanese torpedo boats coming to finish off the men... lol
My recollection, as an ex-Navy guy: the combat information center keeps a table of survival times vs water temperature. If someone ever goes overboard, they start tracking time-in-water. (I don't recall exactly why, I'll guess 1/ to provide a sense of urgency and 2/ to have some idea when to give up reasonable hope.) What Drach said about survival times in the water was correct, maybe even a little optimistic. I'm sure we could Google such a chart now, but as I recall you needed to get to near-subtropical latitudes to gain survivability over 30 minutes. Of course location matters more than latitude: better to be in the water off the Carolinas in the Gulf Stream, than in the California Current of the Pacific at the same latitude. For man-overboard, ships will have 1 or 2 trained rescue swimmers (as a 2ndary duty) who will deploy in a launch. Of course their skills & intentions will be no good when the aft 30% of the ship becomes disagreeable.
I remember that when Robert Ballard released the photos of the the wreck of theTitanic, amoung the debris were pairs of shoes and boots in positions that strongly suggested they were all that remained of unfortunate victims that had been either dragged down with her or possibly ejected from her when she hit bottom. Those pictures still give me chills. On a personal note my Grandfather , William Gonczi was lost at sea, when the tanker he was serving upon was torpedoed off the New Jersey coast in the early period of the American involvement in WW11. As a child we would spend summers at the Jersey Shore. Looking at the ocean I would wonder if under the water I could see ,was my Grandfathers final resting place. He'd wanted to be a Doctor, and my Grandmother always insisted he would have become one, had he not joined the Merchant Marine due to his not being accepted by the Navy at the start of the war.
When you read the individual tragedies like yours and think of the millions more (many untold/forgotten) like it that must've played out during those years its upsetting and sobering. Sad to see that Movies and even games today seem to promote war
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 I agree wit your sentiment. But the optimist in me hopes they promote the memory of war. I know I'd never have started to learn about world war 2 (and afterwards all 19th and 20th century wars and geo politics, which I've studied for 25+ years now). If movies and early video games had not peaked my interest as a child.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 ; I've had since my teens ,a nagging fear that mankind is genetically predisposed to becoming bored with peace in order to thin the herd. Perhaps games may satisfy the urge? I honestly don't know. Appreciate your thoughtful reply.
Step 0.5: Don't leave your mag doors open. We learned that the hard way, near Denmark. Step 0.5: Don't have your ship commanded by someone who broadsides a lot. We learned that near Greenland.
10:24 While it is true that oil is something to avoid, it was reported by survivors of the Battle off Samar that the oil slicks tended to keep sharks away and was in itself an attention getter for aircraft flying overhead. 41:02 The USN had a similar apparatus called a floater net. These were basically cargo nets with rubber disks spread out in it. These were stored in open baskets welded on the sides of turrets or the ships superstructure. As a ship sank these simply floated out and offered survivors a chance to rally to one point. When the USS Samuel B Roberts DE-413 was sunk her CO Robert F. Copeland, had a life raft that survived Japanese gunfire placed in the middle of one of these nets. It offerd a relatively safe spot for the wounded who couldn't hold on or were unable to swim.
Part of basic training in the US Navy is how to make a flotation device. The dungaree uniform includes bell-bottom trousers. If a sailor is overboard without a life vest or ring, what you do is remove your trousers and tie knots in the legs. Then, bring the butt-end over your head and force it into the water. This will trap air into the legs that you had already tied. As long as the trousers stay wet they will hold air and help to keep you afloat.
Lol my dad has saved 2,3 drowning people, first one was a German who just said Danke and walked off! The second was drowning old couple they actually bought him dinner! He was an exceptional swimmer (as well as cricketer,r ugby player motorbike racer and shot) he would swim down rivers for fun!
Another friend had to rescue his mate when the guy got a hole in his boat... One problem this was night in Cairns in Australia which is full of crocodiles and sharks!
It seems the Captain was the smartest, save yourself alll the problems and just go down with the ship! Don’t jump off the back of the ship, stationary or moving propellers will kill. Jumping off ships with the early life preservers from higher up could cause broken necks and death as when hitting the water the best was forced up violently.
Which is why Admiral Yamaguchi and Captain Kaku ordered the money in the Hiryu's safe to be left as was, to pay for Charon to ferry them across the River Styx, as well as to pay for a square meal in hell (per Walter Lord's "Incredible Victory").
When I was in the navy, my biggest fear was the ship capsizeing... and since I was a engineer(machinist mate), the chances of being trapped in the main engine spaces during said capsize event were high. So. I made my own escape kit: a bunch of wrenches pre-sized to open the manhole access to the main condenser, allowing for escape thru either the main condenser scoop, main condenser suction side of the pump, or main condenser discharge. Yes, I was that concerned. And even if the ship wasn't capsizing, escape via aforementioned escape points was also possible if the ship was going down by the head as well.
Drach spent 3 months down the local swimming pool practicing all of these techniques as part of his extensive research, lilos and inflatables were only used when *absolutely* necessary!
You joke but that is how modern sailors get their initial training for lifejackets and rafts. Being able to train people how to work with this equipment in a controlled environment is pretty useful
Sadly it was more like: Crew: I'm about to burn to death if I don't jump off the ship, I will take my chances in the sea. Other Crew: Abandon Ship has been called, you say. I didn't hear it but I will obey. Still Other Crew: Oh dear, I seem to be flying towards the water, must be that huge explosion near me. Captain Gehres, in port later: I charge you all with Desertion.
When you know exactly what happen ob Franklin there is absolutely zero to laugh about. NOTHING. I guess you must really crack up when remembering the USS Indianapolis CA-35 also?
@@stevejfromak842 well, humour is meant to be offensive, so get off your moral high horse and kiss my ass. Life doesn't give a flying fuck, neither should we.
For a merit badge in the Boy Scouts, I had to jump into the deep end of a pool fully dressed with pants and a belt, plus a shirt. Because this was the 1990s, my choice of extremely wide leg JNCO jeans was a terrible choice. I learned this after sinking like a stone to the bottom. It wasn’t all bad though; after they were off and the legs were tied together, they turned into an inflated life vest the size of a truck inner tube with my head in the middle after getting them topside. I saw a picture later and it looked like I was being intimate with Rosie O’Donnell
I think the anecdote that sticks with me about a survivor in the water was one by an escort crewman from the Battle of the Atlantic. His ship was escorting a convoy and some ships were sunk. There was one man in the sea waving and crying for help. The captain gave orders to ignore him and continue on. As the ship passed him, the man yelled, "Taxi, taxi..." He knew he was doomed, but he made a joke out of it at the end. I'll never forget the man who told that story, the expression he wore. It was like he was haunted by the experience. But, that's my opinion of what I saw when I watched that documentary.
The panic is real. Learned that when I took my stress and rescue course to get my master diver. We were trained to knock out a panicked rescuee if necessary, just to get them on their back and breathing while towed. I carry a dive knife with a blunt ended handle just in case.
As a kid, I attempted a rescue on another kid in the city reservoir. He did the "climb on and cling", and I had to dive down until he ket go, then swim laterally do he couldn't grab me again when I surfaced. Fortunately a grownup whose name I never learned spotted us. I was floating by then, so he clocked the other kid, and towed him to shore, and then needed help peeling the kid off at the side, so they could both get out.
Fun fact, Charles Lightoller (2nd officer on Titanic) was sucked into a vent and carried down for a few hundred (?) feet until something exploded down below and pushed him to the surface. He would then go on to rescue people from Dunkirk in his motor yacht Sundowner.
Another fine offering. Not a great deal that I wasn't already aware of but made for a sobering thought experience. As a former infantryman, I'll take a nice jungle setting on solid ground if I'm in combat, though the Navy certainly has a number of attractions over slogging thru Indochina on foot. No matter the branch of service here's a glass raised to combat veterans of every stripe
I was required to take and pass a course called Drownproofing to graduate from college. The techniques were developed during WW2 to help sailors avoid drowning after their ship was sunk. Very valuable experience!
Well this was a great thing for me to watch before I spend a long time out at sea on a ship, scary and informative. Very informative. It might save my life. Can't wait to show my future ship mates.
Drach: "How does one survive being unceremoniously being dumped in the ocean?" Me: As tiresome and incumbent upon an individual as this may be perhaps swimming would be the answer.
How to cope with the ship sinking? Let's ask HMS Sheffield's crew...singing Always Look on the Bright Side of Life. Huh. Worse things happen at sea, you know?
Awesome content. Btw, yes there is suction and aeration, but there is also a rip current effect. As the ship goes down water molecules will stick to it and form chains that will also connect to you, and that can also pull you down. Basically, get away from a ship that is sinking.
Whats the old saying? "When they are on the ship they are the enemy, once they are off they are a fellow Mariner in distress." Oil is an extreme hazard as it also tends to be toxic so if it gets ingested, it can make you very sick with vomiting and diarrhea which will quickly sap your endurance. It will also make you become dehydrated very quickly making fresh water all the more important. However, oil has a very specific niche use that can actually aid in your survival. Because it sticks to everything it makes for a very effective sun screen. Just be careful not to get any in your eyes as it will burn like hell. Survivors from the Indianapolis would deliberately coat themselves in oil to protect their heads from the sun. Also, in addition to the Carley floats, USN ships tended to carry a device known as a floater net. Which was basically just a large net with floats attached to it. These would be thrown over the side roughly at the same time as the Carley floats and performed the same basic function. Although they tended to not have any supplies and were purely a form of flotation. The Carley float had one major drawback in that it did not really protect its occupants from the elements. Since they were basically floating in the water instead of out of it. Which is why they were eventually replaced by inflatable rafts. An inflatable raft being even more compact when stored on ship and able to keep sailors out of the freezing water when deployed.
I served in the RN in the late 80's and early 90's. This is a very good presentation on survival at sea. I have a RN reference book for the 25 man life raft BR1329 (boof reference 1329). The basic principle is to enter the sea wearing an immersion suite (if time allows) and life jacket, to make your way form the ship and enter a life raft. To enter the water step off the platform with head up holding the life jacket with arms over the chest and enter the water with the legs scissored as in an open step. One hand holding the nose. This method breaks the drop into the water and keeps the top half of the body away from any underwater obstacle. Once on board the life raft to bail it out and secure it. Modern rafts have water, rations and some have manually wound radio's too.
I found this to be quite interesting. I've had my own boat and learned all that I could about having to ditch so much of the detail was familiar. But, more importantly, your story really brought images of my father's WW II experience into my mind. He was on the Royal Canadian navy Frigate HMCS Teme doing anti-submarine patrol about a week after D-Day, running with lights out in the wee hours when they were accidentally rammed by the British carrier HMS Tracker. My father was thrown into the water, suffered some oil and salt water ingestion but managed to be rescued by members of his crew. I do have a bit of a auto-biography of his time in the RCN and a good photo of the HMCS Teme's damage. If you would like either, please reply and let me know.
Has no one actually tested this properly and to scale? There were plenty of defunct large cargo and war ships that were flippantly sunk in weapon testing as a tourist attraction or reef building and no one thought to put either protected scuba divers or sensors to scientifically understand the phenomenon and even perhaps come upon data that might help formulate a survival plan for this specific phenomenon that could save lives?
It is NOT suction. It is a column of entrained air - small bubbles - "pulled" into the water by the descending ship. This radically lowers the effective density of the water, so you fall down the column very rapidly. Has exactly the same feeling (and outcome) as suction, but that's not what it is. This was tested repeatedly by the boffins in WW2, for obvious reasons.
I have watched this three or 4 times now have the last few months, great video so thanks Drach. But more than anything it's the title of this video that draws me in, possibly the best title I've ever seen in any RUclips video ever!
I did extensive ship board fire fighting training including engine rooms aircraft storage lockers. One is told to use the back of their hand to check the temperature of closed hatches in case it's very hot scalding the back of your hand still allows one to use their hand.. oh great. One team would keep the other drenched in water i can say few things are as distracting as boiling water dripping onto you from redhot pieces of ship. Often you cannot see due to electrical failure and or smoke . Pretty much your doomed and can only hope to save the ship or ship mates
Part of the back of hand (or back of fingernails) is an injured palm may reflex grip tighter extending the contact time getting a worse burn. The back of the hand reflex is snap away. The fingernail I learned in metal shop as it also buffers a bit.
@@b1laxson For "testing" if something is electrically "hot", use the back of your hand so if shock contracts the muscles, the stronger adductors (close fist) vs the abductors (open fist) don't cause you to get a death grip on the wire. For "testing" if something is thermally hot, also use the back of your hand, but for a different reason. The skin on the palm side is very thick and you won't register the pain (and reflexively jerk your hand away) until quite a bit of damage has been done. This can be quite inconvenient if you need to grip a doorknob or climb down a ladder. The skin on the back is quite thin and you'll often register the heat before much damage is done.
brilliant! Please give us more in depth explorations of topics like this! It's one thing learning about specifications of those ships, quite another to hear about the risks and circumstances arising from operating them. Cheers!
32:20 oh Drach, a reference to one of my favourite memes: Life preserver or life vest or life jacket. Hang on a minute, how could this thing be a danger to me? It's inherent in the name, it's a life preserver isn't it?
Hahaha ...I can really relate to that. For me, it was a video called Principles of Longwall Mining. I had never had any interest in mining of any sort but my brain convinced me to give that video a chance. And so began the odyssey.
There are so many things to be concerned about for an abandon ship. Hypothermia, sunburn, salt rash, any fire that may be on the water because of burning oil, debris in the water, dehydration, starvation. Injured people make everything harder too. All of that is not even including staying afloat. Hopefully you catch on a life raft. That's why abandoning ship has to be such a last resort. Good job on touching on so much of it. Really a fan of your stuff.
I read an account, I think it was from a sailor on the Indianapolis, who said, when he was rescued he took off the life jacket and just dropped it in the water - and watched it sink. He wondered how long he had been keeping IT afloat.
If you do have to jump cross your arms, keep your legs straight and cover your nose. Remember to thrash your arms above your head to clear oil/fire/debris when surfacing. If you have to swim under fire /oil do the same. Excellent video and history. “For those in peril on the sea”
I’m a veteran of the USN (‘61-‘63). I was a scuba diver(collector for the marine biology museum @ NAS Pt. Mugu Ca.). Was asked/volunteered to spend 12 hrs instrumented, (heart rate, breathing, temperature) after being dumped in the water, retrieving & inflating a one man survival raft. Was wearing typical flight crew uniform of dungaree shirt, dungaree pants, tee shirt & skivvies and a white hat. The shoes were the reward for my service, a much sought after pair of “flight deckers”. These were rough-out, light colored, desert boot type with a special sole that didn’t mark the flight deck. And Did Not need to be polished. This was spring in Southern California and I got pretty cold. As I remember the raft had a ‘poncho with a hood so I was protected from the wind/spray. I think it was from 1800 to 0600. At the time I thought I was being picked on and mistreated but after watching some of the videos of the World Wars I’ve come to realize how fortunate I’ve been and how grateful I am to the people who had the courage to do what they did so that I can have the amazing, free life I have. I remember going to the beach in Santa Monica (I lived there most of my life) with my mom,age 4-5, and her showing me balls of tar/bunker oil? and telling me it was from the ship’s that were sunk during the War. Thank you for your interest in preserving maritime history and being willing to, and enjoying sharing it with the world.
Maybe that was oil from the Honda Point disaster? There's a good video on this channel about that incident; Santa Barbara to Santa Monica probably isn't too far for some old leaky ship's oil to make it.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Pinned post for Q&A :)
You have a typo in the description it's "make a exit" not "make a exist"
Drachinifel How did the American and British Navel Traditions evolve over the 244 years of separation?
How to make a rapid unexist if life gets too much?
How exactly did radar guided AA work from detection to fire control to sending this all back to the guns and getting efficient radar directed fire, suitable to replace human operated fire.
52:36 min is brief? Is that by British, English, or Mother in Law time?
Me: Why is this ship being so disagreeable?
Ship: I think I’d prefer to be a submarine today
Admiral: "You're a what!?!"
Ship: "A submarine. There, I said it, I'm a Sub and I'm proud."
Admiral: " No, no, NO! We're surface people. I will not tolerate any of that deviant diving behavior in this family."
Ship: "This is who I am. Why can't you accept it?"
Admiral: "It isn't natural. What am I going to tell the other Admirals? Meet my new fleet, 100 ships strong. Just ignore the one sitting on the bottom?"
Ship: "It's always about you! What about me? My feelings matter, I matter!" *Storms out*
Mommy Admiral: "Calm down dear. It's just a phase. I'm sure things will work out."
@@christopherconard2831 "You're not turning into a submarine on my watch! Damage control, take care of this!"
I self identify as 'being on fire'
@@artificernathaniel3287 Oh, bloody Hell! You're not on fire, you're flooding from a mine strike. What is wrong with you?!
Naughty ship!
The thought of falling through the air bubbles of a large sinking ship in the middle of the sea is absolutely terrifying.
Dolphin's trap wee fish by circling the shoal and creating bubbles. Difficult to swim in bubbles.
New nightmare unlocked
@@paulstewart6293this is also a theory on ships sinking in the Bermuda Triangle, large amounts of natural gas/CO2 trapped in pockets very close to the surface of the ocean floor suddenly being released by tectonic activity, among other things, as a ship just so happens to be passing over head on the surface and the MASSIVE amount of bubbles drastically reduces the ships buoyancy causing them to suddenly and violently sunk with virtually no warning or time to get off a distress signal.
@@jordannewsom4578 Air bubbles like that moving water is one reason why depth charges are so effective against submarines. They make a huge bubble that causes water to move really fast, that's very deadly to submarines but if a similar bubble popped underneath a surface ship it would still cause damage.
Into the bottomless black void below...😶
"Oh my god, the ship is on fire." - Ship Chieftain
Oh bugger, the ship is on fire.
Frankly, it seems easier and safer to get out of the driver's position on a burning Cromwell.
Heard he's still cranking on that that Panther hatch
*Shieftain
@@Merlin1234-t2d Seaftain FTFY ;)
Well, being hit by a torpedo is a serious emotional event...
I'll take "Reasons I Joined the Army" for one thousand, Drach.
And then your transport ship gets torpedoed on its way to France.
Oh drat the tanks on fire.
Bugger, my arms been blown off
daviefingpancakes ☆ Troop Transports for $5-
Honda Civic ☆ Merely a Flesh Wound!
#significantemotionalevent
nero wulfee92 😂😂😂😂👍
A couple of comments:
When I went through basic survival in USN bootcamp ~1990 we were taught not to put on the kapok lifevests before getting into the water. The momentum of entering the water from a jump from 40-60 feet from a ship's weather deck/flight deck was such that the kapok's buoyancy would act to increase the forces acting on your body, with the worst cases causing broken bones, or even tearing the life vest away from your body. Instead we were told to secure the vest to ourselves with a lanyard if at all possible, throw it in first, and then jump to follow it. With an inflatable life vest, it was emphasized that the vest would be put on before going into the water - but not to inflate it until after one were in the water, for much the same reasons.
Regarding inflatable life vests, anybody who has listened to the instructions on an airplane knows not to inflate them before exiting the vehicle. Reason for this is not only the impact, but primarily that an inflated life vests hinders your movement significantly. Exiting a sinking vahicle rapidly is paramount.
@@mxaxai9266 the problem with that is that many life vests auto inflate after a minute or two in the water. If you're conscious after the water landing, it's probably a good idea to take it back off until you're actually off the plane.
@@wyattroncin941 the ones used on commercial aircraft have two straps (one on each side) that you need to pull to inflate. I don't think I've ever seen a different design. Ships or private & military aircraft may carry life vests that auto-inflate. If you're not trapped in a sinking vessel but are in danger of being swept overboard or parachuting into the ocean that type would probably be quite handy.
@@mxaxai9266 looked it up and I was mistaken. FAA life vests do not auto inflate, specifically to prevent getting trapped by the water.
USCG inflatable life vests, such as on cruise ships, do auto inflate. So that's probably where I got that idea from.
if you have an XXXXXXXXXXXXL sized life vest that inflates with hydrogen it's ok to jump in with it inflated.
I suposse the disagreeable part comes into play since the ship is disagreeaging with the crew on the whole "remaining afloat" thing.
Santiago Trujillo Tobon The ship disagrees with the statement “you’re average density is lower than that of water”
Or when it is Kamchatka. Remember when 2nd pacific drop anchor at Madagascar one of the Kamchatka"s crew did try to get out of the ship citing "ship being disagreeable" as reason.
@@michalsoukup1021 do you see torpedoboats anywhere?
@@psychoaiko666 Honestly if it ever actually appears in WoWs and I see it while sailing a DD, ill torpedo it on the principle, and twice if it is on my team
Ship: I now identify as a submarine. *DIVE!*
Crew: Please no.
"Oh dear, the ship is being disagreeable today."
Sounds like something an English captain would say while his ship is both sinking and on fire. STIFF UPPER LIP, CHAPS.
It is indeed.
"there seems to be something wrong with our blood ship today"
Avalanche041 I was wondering when a Beatty reference might show up!
"There is good news, and there is some bad news. For the good news, soon, the ship will no longer be on fire. For the bad mews, that will be due to it being fully under water."
Yes overt emotion is for the weak
Notes from a USN vet:
1. All enlisted sailors were required to pass a practical swimming test in boot camp. Company marched to an Olympic-sized indoor pool for an all day event. Everyone was required to swim from one end of the pool to the far end and back without touching the bottom in a timed swim. Folks who could not swim went to class several times per week until they could and would not be allowed to graduate boot camp until they could pass the tests. This was also the day to volunteer for the SEALS, if desired, as they were the swim instructors. We were also required to demonstrate, while treading water, to remove our pants, knot off the leg openings and slam the pants down into the water waist first thereby trapping air to make buoyant water wings of sort. The same with our white hats. Better than nothing, I guess.
2. We were instructed to and required to demonstrate by jumping off a swim platform: do not wear a kapok life jacket when jumping into the water as you will likely injure yourself. We were instructed to grab it by the straps, jump feet first and crossed with jacket held over your head and the other hand over the family jewels. You could be jumping from a hundred feet plus into the water.
3, Keep all your clothes, sun exposure will be a long term enemy if in warm enough water to survive.
4. All USN ships are equipped with Mark 6 25/50-man life rafts in canisters lashed in various locations. The canisters are equipped with latches that automatically unlocked to release the rafts when under water to pop to the surface. Total raft capacity is at a minimum 110% of crew complement.
5. I do not have a reference for this handy but I think it is from James D Hornfischer's Neptune's Inferno: USN depth charges had a habit of exploding as a DD/CL sunk whether or not the safeties were engaged. It was found that the vast number of deaths were caused by the shock wave entering and rupturing the intestines so float on your stomach with butt out of the water if exploding ordinance is of concern.
Ernie Cvetkovic As a Marine I’m glad to have read this. Lol
I was in the USN 1975 to 1980, and I can validate all you have said. Short of something completely cataphoric, you had a fair chance of survival, provided you were not dropping in 32 F water. Those liferafts are stocked with water, and they have flares and smoke pyrotechnics on them. Given the number of US Warships, if you survive at all and make it to one of the rafts, you have a fair shot at survival.
Rather nice that the pants blouse and hat on a navy uniform are a flotation device. We had to kick our boots off and inflate our coveralls, you kept your boots handy tho incase you came across land, be a shame to cut your feet up on the rocks trying to get ashore
Same when i went through training in 2009.
Though we had more modern safety gear to train with. Beacons and smoke pots activated by a lanyard pull or immersion in water.
(Suppossedly in watertight canisters untill event of ship sinking occurs.)
@@dragonalpha9894 One of the things that isn't mentioned here, given the WW2 cut off is that US Naval men of war are interconnected on NTDS and Link 16. Should a ship go down one can reasonably expect that help is on the way.
Chieftain : "Oh my god, the tank is on fire!"
Drachinifel : "Oh Lord, the ship is on fire and being disagreeable!"
US Coastie here. Brave fool that goes and does the saving.
You nailed it on the cold water sapping your energy. By policy we have to leak test our drysuits in the coldest water our Area of Responsibility experiences. From my experience, 10 mins with three layers is almost enough to prevent us from getting out of the water by the pier we jumped off. In fact we go by the 3-2-1 rule for cold water survival. 30 mins of meaningful movement. Afterwords 20 mins until unconsciousness, and another 10 mins until death. That's without any protective gear.
Having survived the sinking of HMS Fittleton I should have something to add but the first few minutes seam to be covered quite well. I was one of the later ones to be picked up and that was a bit over half an hour after the collision so only the initial bit applies. Maybe add get your boots off.
Did you get your wages?
@@taotoo2 Yes but only part compensation for the gear I lost and no survivors leave.
@@x42brown that sucks
Swedish Navy boots differ from Swedish infantry and tankers boots in that, while they do have steel toe caps like the tanker boots, infantry boots have plastic toe caps, the navy boots also have water proof side zippers that go all the way to the sole of the boot.
It reads like that happened so quickly! What were you doing when the collision happened, and how damn surprised did you feel to be suddenly capsized and in the water?
My grandfather was in merchant marines in WW2. He was a engineer so in engine room. His ship got hit (have to ask dad for the name of it) and well into the water he went. Side note we found out the uboat caption was a uboat Ace decerated 2 times by Hitler, so hey Atleast the best got him.
So into the water he went. Considering he worked in engine room it's great he got out as many down there don't make it. Over comes the destroyer who armed depth charges and running around trying to get the uboat.
After a bit the destroyer stoped to pick up survives, one being my grandfather. Well that's good except standing orders was never to stop the boat as easy to torpedo. Well ya another uboat got the destroyer. Down that went and back in the water. But note the depth charges where armed so the ship went lower and boom they went off. So that got many more.
That said grandfather was picked up by another passing ship. So sunk 2 times in the Atlantic in the same day and lived.
Grandpa gets 2 medals. One for being the luckiest sailor in the Merchant Marine- one for being the unluckiest.. IMHO- Every branch of the service should bow when the Merchant Marine enters a room. The highest casualty rate of all the U.S. service branches in WW2- with the added bonus that generally they were also unarmed..
Was he allowed on a ship after been on 2 that already sunk?
@CipiRipi00 I am surprised he was allowed, but they needed every able and willing man they could find, i guess. Maybe your grandfather told them third time the charm, put me on the ship most available NOW.
Well, what about all the other people who possibly survived both ships to make it to a new one? Surely your grandfarther wasnt the only one to survive both ships, mabby they were cursed, probably not, but mabby they were. And the chances of a ship being sunk while picking up survivors from a sunken ship is quite high when you have an enemy still present and active. Im sure the same thing has happened to many ships in the past.
@@darrellsmith4204 I never knew the Merchant Navy had the highest casualty rate. I would have guessed Bomber Crews were the highest for the Brits and Submariners were the highest for late war Germany
"The ship is disagreeable, commence abandonment"
Back in the eighties my brother did his first mate's ticket. Part of this was a safety course in which the candidates have to jump from a tower the same height as a bridge wing into the water wearing a life jacket. In those days life jackets didn't have a strap going under the crotch (in fact I don't actually know if they do now) so my brother says when he hit the water he immediately shot out of the life jacket and only just managed to snag it with his fingers.
Another story told by my dad's friends who served on a merchant ship was that during The Second World War a friend of his was so worried, with considerable justification, of being torpedoed that he wore his kapok life preserver in his bunk, about his duties and pretty much everywhere aboard. Lucking he made it right through the war without being torpedoed and during the celebrations for V Day he came up on deck to the acclaim of his shipmates and threw the life preserver over the side.
It sunk straight to the bottom of the harbour.
I've heard the same story, set in the RN.
About Crotch-Straps: At least the German Navy has them on their Jackets, during Training we had to Jump with the Lifejacket allready inflated too and nobody warned us to loosen the Strap before doing so ....ouch, big time ouch !
The jacket absorbed all the torpedo attracting factors ...
if you were crewing an ammunition ship you didn't bother wearing a life jacket at all. For obvious reasons.
Life vests back then were filled with cork. Over time, it would degrade, especially if he was wearing it all the time, even when sleeping, would help crumble the cork into powder and eliminate its buoyancy. Even in storage, they had to be replaced every so often.
As a submariner, my options were a submerged escape (if in shallow enough water) to suffer through the hazards in this video, death by asphyxiation, death by fire, death by implosion, death by hypothermia, death by impalement, death by radiation, ...
Brent Granger lmao
Implosion sounds like the preferable option.
Good luck.
WWI-WWII submariners faced largely the same hazards (sans radiation, of course). They had the advantage that they usually ran surfaced or at shallower depths, meaning getting out of a stricken boat alive was slightly more likely, but this was not necessarily a good thing, as the small size of submarines at the time meant they couldn't carry much if any survival equipment.
Submarines: all the downsides of ships, tanks, AND planes!
"Oh lord, the ship is disagreeable"
I didn't expect my first Drachism of the day before actually clicking a video!
On a small boat always stay with the boat. They seldom sink.
Some years ago I sailed competitively, travelling to numerous locations. During one event on a very cold mountain lake a sudden storm blew down from the mountains. A violent gust carried me over the side of the boat but I was able to grab the lifeline at the rail. The boat was then knocked down on its side pinning me perhaps 5 feet under the frigid water. I held on to the life line and held my breath, knowing the boat would stand back up as the gust dies. the statistics for people separated from their boat in foul weather are grim.
Eventually the line came above water, barely, and I was able to gasp a breath. Struggle as I did I couldn't climb into the boat and the other 3 crew were occupied with immediate emergencies preserving the boat. Finally when they were able to assist me I had to be dragged physically back into the boat like so much dead weight. I was weak as a baby from perhaps perhaps a full minute in the icy water. It seemed like it took forever but it could only have been moments but back on board I could not stand or even sit up under my own power. Without flotation and proper gear I would certainly have lost my grip on the line and died. The storm and conditions on the water had become far to rough for the rescue of a helpless body in the water.
Any time you leave shore your vessel should be prepared to be self-sufficient. The crew must know their duties and be properly equipped. Cruise ships or warships, there is no difference. Without my able crewmates I would have died.
Oh, yes we won that race. As we used to say, you ain't racin' till you're bleeding.
And people have been lost when the boat they were on DIDN’T sink as they were expecting. Even if it becomes less-than-navigable (perhaps due to being upside down, for example) if it doesn’t sink entirely then you may be able to use it for flotation, plus it’s easier to spot and so on. One person I know likes the saying “don’t get off the boat until you have to step UP into the life raft.” And for bleep’s sake have appropriate safety gear - including things like EPIRBs that will help people find you. The ocean is a very large place to look.
"Never get out of the boat." Absolutely g*d**n right. Drachinifel got off the boat. He split from the whole f***ing program.
As a navy vet and later tall ship sailor, we were always taught to never abandon ship unless absolutely necessary. The saying was “always step up into the ocean”.
@@yourstruly4817 Apocalypse Now! funny shit.
Small enough boats - especially those with motors instead of sails - are _not allowed_ to sink by law; they're required to have foam-filled bouyancy compartments such that even if you completely swamp the boat, it will not sink, _cannot_ sink... the only way you could *maybe* sink one is enough rounds of 50-cal or the like such that it shoves enough foam out of the boat... but at that point you've either long since abandoned ship, or are so much fish food _already_.
The moment of silence at the end was very appropriate. On behalf of those of whom the monument speaks, thank you Drach.
Uncle Albert: "During the War..."
Drachinifel: "Do go on."
This coment merits more likes kind ser.
WW 1 ship: am leaking coal
WW2 ship: I'm leaking oil
WW3 ship: I'm leaking neutrons
WW4 ship: I'm leaking human muscle power (ref: Einstein's quote "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." )
@@philperry4699 thanks for the mental image of just a bunch of people stuffed inside the hull of a ship spilling out into the ocean
@@Epic24123 Hey, what you want to image is your business! :-) Just to clarify for anyone not "getting" it, by WW4 we will be back to galleys rowing towards each other at ramming speed.
@@Epic24123 Thanks, I hate you and my imagination.
@@philperry4699 Einstein was incorrect. In World War IV, people will be jousting at each other while riding on the backs of giant spiders.
Anyone else remember when Mythbusters tried to bust the ship suction hazard....... with a 20 foot tug in shallow water?
It at least shows people that if their small boat goes down they dont need to panic. But ya, not the best for a big one
Most folks have a hard time with concepts such as cube law etc.
You could infact simulate it small scale but you need to increase the density of the object going down and scale the object being dragged down by its density and size accordingly (taking into account that this relationship is not linear)
Sailors were horrified by the thought of soldiers being shelled, with only a hole in the ground to hide in. The soldiers reminded them that while foxholes can be wet, none have ever sunk in the ocean and the only sharks they have to deal with, just take your money after winning at pool.
Marines? That just sounds like jarhead thinkin to me... Simple but correct enough to help.
@Alexander Challis Great Respect for your father and his service! I've always thought that some of the bravest sailors were those who manned the engine rooms, knowing how little chance of escape they had if their ship was sunk. Even a ball turret gunner on a B-17, at least got to shoot back at his enemies.
A hole in the ground is probably better protection from heavy land artillery than a battleship's armor is from heavy naval artillery, to be fair
"If you are in a Carly Float, you can cannibalize..." WAIT WHAT "... fishing supplies from the craft's complex construction." nearly spat my drink out haha...
There was a Chinese Steward who survived for 133 days in a raft in WW2
Damn, I was looking forward to some nice brisket of Johnson.
"There is no canibalism in the RN."
Having escaped a sinking once, i can confirm alot of this personally. Having violently turned over, 3 of us got into the water, objects from the deck hit and hurt us, one got pinned ( the sinking freed him ) we all surfaced lightly wounded, and called out to eachother, yet one of us got caught in rope and was being dragged down with the sinking ship quickly after, my other friend released her after two dives, which was a very close call. While trying to keep her head above the surface, I faced the situation of having to let her go or drown myself, however she did, she disapeared and my friend released the rope seconds later. They both sufaced, and a hour later we where all on shore. Sinking is a violent event and can be traumatic, keep calm is indeed the best advice, we all survived because calm aloud us to think.Thanks for the video Drachinifel.
Damn
We
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Keep Calm and Carry On
Was this in the 80's please?
@@VileCAESARB it was the early 90s
A note on cork life preservers: Hope that they are relatively new and that they are exchanged for new ones fairly often as cork does degrade over time, and if left to rot for too long when the time comes to use them you might find that the cork has rotted to dust and has all of the lifting capacity of slinging two bags of flour around your neck.
One of the most tragic cases in point for this, as well as the point of panic-stricken fellow survivors, came on June 15, 1904, when the excursion steamboat General Slocum caught fire on New York City's East River. Not only were the life vests stored in wire mesh above passengers' heads (accounts of victims lacerating their fingers to the point of blood dripping down trying to get the meshes loose), but even once freed it was found that these life vests had been bought 13 years prior when the ship was built and never replaced. Many split open to reveal their dusty contents of... dust, and those frantic mothers who put the life belts on their children before casting them over the side then got to watch little Timmy and Gertrude sink like stones. Even when in the water passengers found themselves dragged down by their heavy Victorian/Edwardian garb while other victims, frantic to save their own lives, saw those staying afloat as being as good as an island. Just a few of the many reasons why of an estimated 1,400 passengers and crew, over 1,000 perished in the worst disaster in New York's history prior to Sept. 11, 2001.
I was on a small ferry last year, and I didn't have a lot of confidence in their stuff, also the vests were in netting above our heads.
I don't remember which boat it was exactly. Could have been a ferry in New York, but also Toronto, Chicago, on several places on the St. Lawrence. We did 7 ferries is 3 weeks.
No names, but I used to work for a company that did boat tours on 150 passenger boats. One fine day it was time for that boat to go to the drydock for service, which meant emptying all the storage spaces. That's how I found out half the life vests were being stored in a crawlspace that only the skinniest crewmember could get into, hands and knees, cursing and tossing them into the corridor When I asked the captain how in the name of Neptune's kelpy testicles he intended to get those out in an abandon ship situation, well...
"irretrievably dead"
"It won't hurt for long" - a line I heard in a WWI fighter plane video...If you're gonna die, there are ways and ways. A long slow one via exposure - given that the ending is the same - seems even worse.
Drachism of the day.
“Irretrievably dead” - my happiness
Thank you for giving me a reason to stop dieting. I realize the chances of my falling from Indiana into the North Atlantic is rather remote, but why take unnecessary risks?
When I arrived in Vietnam back in November 1968 I was assigned to the 11 Field Force 64th Engineer Terrain Unit assigned to headquarters. We were in the costal city of Nha Trang and a few days after arrival a typhoon hit Vietnam. I always loved swimming so soon I was in the water enjoying the South China Sea. What I did not know was the presence of a strong undertoe. I rode a few waves and then suddenly I was pulled under and was swimming to the surface with all my power. I actually almost drown. It was my first experience with a strong undertoe gripping my body. When I returned to my unit, I never told of my experience as it was too embarrassing! To this day I never swim during a typhoon or hurricane. Never underestimate to power of water. It can be stronger then you will ever know!!
So I'd like to mention that something rather unfortunate about life jackets.
They can and do occasionally pose a threat even when your not in the water. Jumping off a ship unless the deck is about 10 to 15 feet off the surface of the water, that jump is going to hurt quite a bit if your wearing a life jacket. I've had the rather unfortunate pleasure of jumping off a ship wearing a life jacket and while I didn't get injured, some of my ship mates hit the water worse than me and ended with some fairly bad head and neck trauma. (Nothing too serious, thankfully it was all for training so they could just go down to medical immediately after they pulled themselves back aboard)
It is advisable anything above 15 feet really to not put on the life jacket untill your in the water, unless your content with hoping the ship is sinking at a slow enough speed to wait untill you've only got a dozen feet between you and the water. For various reasons you mentioned this probably isn't advisable.
True. During my time in the Navy, we actually practized jumping into the water with life jackets on. It was only from a height of 5 meters, but still only funny until you actually hit the water.
You can jump from quite high levels with a life jacket - offshore oil workers are trained to jump from upto 40m (120ft) up (water is more friendly than a gas fire). The key is to hold the neck line and enter the water, braced and feet first (with your boots on). Finding a jacket in the water on a dark night is just about impossible and survival without flotation is limited to a couple of hours. Getting lifejackets on in the water is an even bigger feat.
My first job in the U.S. Navy was working on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. During flight operations we wore inflatable life jackets. It was an approximately 90 foot drop from the flight deck to the waterline. We were told that we should not attempt to inflate the life jackets until AFTER we had entered the water.
As far as the oil workers that Allan Gibson mentioned, I would wonder whether or not they were using inflatable life jackets. If they were, then the height they were jumping from would not be much of an issue. They would just have to hope that they landed in such a manner that they were not knocked unconscious and could then inflate their vests (though I suppose these days the vests might be rigged to inflate themselves after immersion). If the life vest is always buoyant, then the height limits to jumping mentioned by Doctor End make a lot of sense, as that would be in accordance with the reasons we were given for not inflating a life vest early.
@@minarchist1776 The inflatable vest I always wore while on deck and underway did indeed have a water sensor that would inflate the vest after a couple seconds of immersion. I was on a sailboat, so I wouldn't have to jump from more than about 2 meters, but being unconscious in the water will cause rapid drowning. With an inflated vest that has neck support, you still have a chance of survival even if unconscious.
I read somewhere that the cork life vests were noted for knocking people unconscious when a cork block would hit the water and then whack the wearer in the chin.
I love watching the openings to these.
"Drachinifel, 5 minute guide to warships. (more or less)"
*Scrolls down looks at the video length*
"52 minutes"
it's a bit on the more side
dernwine the longer the better
yeah typo...
he missed a digit :p
There's a book about Canadian convoy escorts i n WW 2 that mentions a pretty amazing incident: a destroyer sighted what looked like 2 men standing in the middle of the ocean waving their arms. It turned out they were standing on the stern of their submerged ship, and had been for 2 days (I think) up to their waists in water.
"There's seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today"
penguasakucing *two shattered battlecruisers burn and sink in the distance*
The SFW version: “our ships are somewhat disagreeable today”
@@maxkennedy8075 at least they aren't being the Kamchatka.
@@wyattroncin941 Suddenly Kamchatka
"Yeah, they want to be a submarine for some reason."
"Stupid teenage ships, putting holes in their bodies!"
Drach: "Unlike a ship you don't have an extremely nice length to breadth ratio"
So I took that personally
OH BUGGER! A significant emotional event!
I remember when I was first assigned to the 25th Infantry in Hawaii we were required to undergo "drown proofing" as part of this training while in full combat gear minus our rifles, we jumped off a high dive into a pool. Step 1 was to remove your ruck sack and toss it into the water. Step 2 was to unstrap your helmet so it wouldn't break your neck upon entering the water, you would throw it clear on the way down so it wouldn't hit you. Step 3 try to relax not panic and remove your boots. Step 4 was to remove your pants and tie the legs tightly together. Step 5 put the legs around your neck and lean back while holding the waist lift it out of the water and try to capture a large air bubble in them. Then you could splash down air bubbles to further fill the trousers. They would remain reasonably full and buoyant as long as you kept them wet and occasionally splashed more air in them. This would allow you to conserve much needed energy. I have tried this with denim and it worked equally well. Lastly remove any unnecessary equipment such as your LBE (Load Bearing Equipment - Suspenders with ammo pouches etc.) Keep the canteen though if it has fresh water also when empty it too can create a little buoyancy, especially if it is the two quart bladder type. I may be off a little and it may have changed over time this training was almost 40 years ago for me in the early 80's Thank you Drachinifel for your channel and posts, I enjoy them all and have listened to many of them several times over.
I retired back in 08, and drown proofing was pretty much the same. Only difference was that we made sure too hold our collar tight on the way in, that way we had a air bubble, that would( hopefully) keep you up long enough to get your bottoms off. We also waterproof the hell out of our rucks, to use them as flotation devices. I'm so glad I joined the Army, that way I could avoid all of the nastiness that Drach just went over!
You had the same training as we did. I served in the Canadian army in 1986. That was one of the things we had to do as well.
From a USN enlisted sailor's point of view, Steps 3 on were taught during basic training back in the early '80s when I enlisted. Back then the dungaree pants we were issued were similar to typical jeans but with a flared ankle or "bell bottom". This looseness aided in removal.
With the current set of on board work gear, I don't know if sailors would be able to get out of them and set them up to function as make-shift life preservers. Another plus was that the light blue chambray shirt and white undershirt were bright enough compared to the surrounding water to aid those searching for survivors, etc. The more recent sets of uniforms came with dark blue undershirts and dark, digital blue pants and shirts, thereby almost guaranteeing that if you survived the initial sinking, the odds of being spotted in the water were practically nil.
(Me - USN Active duty 1983 - 1989, Reserve 1989 - 2019)
@@ELCADAROSA I can bet this is something most militaries teach, and is a good survival idea even out of the military.
Ya the helmet could break your neak.
The best advice I was given when I did my sea survival course was that your ship is the best lifeboat you have, try not to lose it in the first place!
Something we tend to forget in our modern world of mobile communication, is that this world is not our friend. Outside of our towns even a relatively minor injury can still result in death if you don't have signal and that's on land. On water it's a hundredfold worse, you could be within sight of a packed beach filled with hundreds of people, but to all intents and purposes you may as well be on the moon.
Here in the UK, even though we've largely lost most of our maritime traditions, I'm rather proud to say we still haven't lost the idea of sailors united against the sea. It's personified in the largely volunteer based RNLI, who still go out to save anyone who needs it. It's just a shame that I don't live close enough to a station to volunteer myself. On that subject: have you thought about doing a video/videos based around the RNLI, their history, their boats or even some of the more dramatic rescues?
Not forgetting the fine folks at the National Coastwatch Institution, who voluntarily man many of the former Coastguard lookout stations.
Basically any and all coast guards deserve mad respect chances are there underfunded and undermanned and they still work there asses off every day to save lives
To quote a friend. The United States Coast Guard. Banging Navy wifes before the Navy even existed.
I assisted with training of cabin crew for a passenger ferry operator for a couple of seasons. The number of them that sat bored, only half listening thinking "why am I learning this stuff?" was scary. It was usually the liferaft training in the water that had them wise up and finally realise they've not gotten a job in McDonald's here 😂
One of the first Officers would always open with "if the company could they'd have the ships filled with vending machines and you wouldn't be here! You are not on ship to serve cups of tea, pull pints and sell tacky gifts. You are on ship to keep people safe and save lives if and when required. THAT is your job!" The company used to hate him for saying it but he wasn't wrong.
Video on RNLI and Coastwatch here would be really good. I don't think a lot of ppl outside the UK realise how amazing they are and that they are charity mostly volunteer service.
@@MoA-Reload... Indeed, of course, the coastguard is certainly helpful too though they are especially helpful when search operations are required because helis are damn useful when you need to find a very small needle in a very large haystack with minimal time.
About 40 years ago, I worked with A WWII US Navy veteran who had 5 different ships "sunk from underneath him" (as he put it). I forgot the names of the ships (he did tell me, I'm sure) but did find him listed as a survivor of the USS Helena on which he had served with my friend's dad (small world).
The first rule of being a boat: BEING ON FIRE IS NOT FUN.
Hang on a minute, how would you know this? Are you actually a boat?
The Admiral Kuznetsov seems to disagree
Maybe on a boat, but on a SHIP the first rule if she is on fire is PUT THE FIRE OUT at all costs.
You never know until you try
The first rule of surviving a ship sinking is don't go on boats or ships ever.
This makes me respect what my great grandfather went through while in the navy alot more than i already did. He was apart of the West Loch disaster (also known as The Second Pearl Harbor to some). He was aboard a LST that was destroyed and i cant even begin to imagine the horrors he must have went through. Luckily he escaped with his life and lived on until just a couple years ago when he died in his late 90s. He was a tough SOB for a fact.
I have read of a big accidental explosion at Pearl Harbor in 1944.
If Steven Seagal is your ship's cook, everything will be ok.
well, for him at any rate.
@@raverdeath100 And Miss July. The cake bunny came through quite well and might date musicians in the future...
Except for some extras he managed to save most of the crew.
Yeah you can use his bloated whale carcass as an improvised "Carley Float".
Unless its an oil rig.
when I was in the U.S. Navy in the 1970s, we were taught that if you don't have a life jacket, you can take your trousers off, tie knots in the legs and blow air into them and they will keep you afloat. It worked in a swimming pool. In the North Atlantic? Doubtful.
I was in the engine room of the USS Guam, a helicopter carrier. I was part of the salvage crew that in the event of the ship sinking, we were supposed to break off sea-chest blowdown valves to ensure that the ship sinks. Once that was done, we would go to the hangar deck of the ship where a liberty boat would be reserved for us. The four liberty boats were stored in two portable racks (two in each, on on top of the other) that could be moved by a small truck. Then they would be lowered into the water by the boat and aircraft crane on the starboard side. All very nice. In other words, we were doomed.
Would that be the equivalent of a mamma hatch for the scuttling crew?
@@ajobdunwell2585 It was the equivalent of "Here, hold this cinder block and jump in. Don't let go"
That's why Drach's advice at the start to remove your big woollen greatcoat is wrong. A greatcoat in the water will not only delay hypothermia, it will trap air and add flotation. And anything woollen will not become waterlogged at all.
Imagine using 60 Pounds of Explosives to sink a Fastattack Boat, have only 2 minutes delay Pullfuses and no damn Motorboat to get away...
I have heard of people sliding down the hull of listing ship and breaking there legs on a bilge keel. I heard this from somone who surved on a friget in the Falklands War, so i'm gussing it happend during that conflict.
Well broken legs beats being dead.
also all of the sea life attached to the hull will skin you.
@@badpossum440 That's what I was going to reply.
It's not like going down a sliding board at the park or pool. Above the surface there are just the plate seams and occasional fittings. Every surface below the waterline is covered by marine life that is far bigger, sharper and harder than most people realize.
@@1djbecker yes i know i served in the Navy for years.
i was once tasked to prepping the hull of 2 50 foot boats for painting. it took me a week to get off the barnicles that were 4 inches thick and harder then anything i knew at the time.
You are so incredibly tacktfull and respecting and yet you manage to present even topics like this with some forme of humor and in a very enjoyable way. There is just noone else like you out there
29:50 Ah yes the 'Doctrine of presumed insanity'. I remember that one from my white water rescue course. having got quite close to drowning in a fast flowing river I can attest to the fact that even with a lot of training in what to do when removed from your vessel and a lot of practice at doing so in controlled circumstances the panic can still set in if you've spent the last few minutes getting about 2 breaths a minute and not knowing which way is up.
I went on a white water rafting trip near Ottawa once. The guide gave everyone in the raft a briefing on safety procedures, particularly what to do if we fell out of the raft while going through the rapids. On the very first rapid, he tumbled head-first out of the back of the raft. As ordered, I directed the crew to paddle directly for the nearest eddy and parked the raft there. When I looked for the kayak that was supposed to fish people out of the water, I saw our guide, breaking every rule he had laid down for us, swimming after the raft. I just shook my head and fished him out myself. No injuries, but it could have turned out very differently.
*Drachinifel:* What to do when you abandon ship.
*_Kamchatka:_* In Mother Russia, ship abandons you.
Kamchatka: not actually sinking. Men ordered to abandon ship as it is sinking. Everyone gets to a safe distance. Retarded captain then shoots at the men in the water thinking they are japanese torpedo boats coming to finish off the men... lol
Of relevant!
There are torpedo boats to chase!
*Sees title*
There better be a Chieftain cameo in this...
Only in the comments
@@TheChieftainsHatch The Tank God has appeared
@@TheChieftainsHatch This is acceptable, too.
@@TheChieftainsHatch And the awesomeness of this chat just increased 100%
Oh bugger the tank is on fire lol. That is the first thing I thought of when I saw this title.
My recollection, as an ex-Navy guy: the combat information center keeps a table of survival times vs water temperature. If someone ever goes overboard, they start tracking time-in-water. (I don't recall exactly why, I'll guess 1/ to provide a sense of urgency and 2/ to have some idea when to give up reasonable hope.)
What Drach said about survival times in the water was correct, maybe even a little optimistic. I'm sure we could Google such a chart now, but as I recall you needed to get to near-subtropical latitudes to gain survivability over 30 minutes.
Of course location matters more than latitude: better to be in the water off the Carolinas in the Gulf Stream, than in the California Current of the Pacific at the same latitude.
For man-overboard, ships will have 1 or 2 trained rescue swimmers (as a 2ndary duty) who will deploy in a launch. Of course their skills & intentions will be no good when the aft 30% of the ship becomes disagreeable.
The best depiction of a sinking and the aftermath has to be Compass Rose in "The Cruel Sea" movie.
Brings to mind some lines from the Navy Hymn (USN): "O hear us when we cry to Thee/For those in peril on the sea."
It is actually an old RN hymn, dating from the 18th century.
I remember that when Robert Ballard released the photos of the the wreck of theTitanic, amoung the debris were pairs of shoes and boots in positions that strongly suggested they were all that remained of unfortunate victims that had been either dragged down with her or possibly ejected from her when she hit bottom.
Those pictures still give me chills.
On a personal note my Grandfather , William Gonczi was lost at sea, when the tanker he was serving upon was torpedoed off the New Jersey coast in the early period of the American involvement in WW11.
As a child we would spend summers at the Jersey Shore.
Looking at the ocean I would wonder if under the water I could see ,was my Grandfathers final resting place.
He'd wanted to be a Doctor, and my Grandmother always insisted he would have become one, had he not joined the Merchant Marine due to his not being accepted by the Navy at the start of the war.
When you read the individual tragedies like yours and think of the millions more (many untold/forgotten) like it that must've played out during those years its upsetting and sobering. Sad to see that Movies and even games today seem to promote war
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 I agree wit your sentiment. But the optimist in me hopes they promote the memory of war. I know I'd never have started to learn about world war 2 (and afterwards all 19th and 20th century wars and geo politics, which I've studied for 25+ years now). If movies and early video games had not peaked my interest as a child.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 ;
I've had since my teens ,a nagging fear that mankind is genetically predisposed to becoming bored with peace in order to thin the herd.
Perhaps games may satisfy the urge?
I honestly don't know.
Appreciate your thoughtful reply.
A guide on how to survive a sinking Battlecruiser:
Step 1: You don't!
Sink or survive?
Laughs in German
*angry Jackie Fisher noises*
@@EdVonPelt Heavy Cruiser torp'd by 19th Century Fort *Laughs for rest of the world*
Step 0.5: Don't leave your mag doors open. We learned that the hard way, near Denmark.
Step 0.5: Don't have your ship commanded by someone who broadsides a lot. We learned that near Greenland.
10:24 While it is true that oil is something to avoid, it was reported by survivors of the Battle off Samar that the oil slicks tended to keep sharks away and was in itself an attention getter for aircraft flying overhead.
41:02 The USN had a similar apparatus called a floater net. These were basically cargo nets with rubber disks spread out in it. These were stored in open baskets welded on the sides of turrets or the ships superstructure. As a ship sank these simply floated out and offered survivors a chance to rally to one point.
When the USS Samuel B Roberts DE-413 was sunk her CO Robert F. Copeland, had a life raft that survived Japanese gunfire placed in the middle of one of these nets. It offerd a relatively safe spot for the wounded who couldn't hold on or were unable to swim.
Used to know a guy who was torpedoed twice and was on PQ17. I think "disagreeable" pretty much says it all.
Ship is leaning over. I must check the track tension!
Part of basic training in the US Navy is how to make a flotation device. The dungaree uniform includes bell-bottom trousers. If a sailor is overboard without a life vest or ring, what you do is remove your trousers and tie knots in the legs. Then, bring the butt-end over your head and force it into the water. This will trap air into the legs that you had already tied. As long as the trousers stay wet they will hold air and help to keep you afloat.
Not only USN, RAN taught this also.
Which makes me scratch my head looking at sailors today in camo. Camo, on the sea? Why?
@@WALTERBROADDUS Allows you to hide from your NCO that searches for a "sweep the deck" party?
Why do the pants need to stay wet?? 👀
@@MrNicoJac The water makes them repel air. Dry pants will allow air to pass through, but when wet the air is trapped.
I have a proposal for new merch: An image of the ship of your choice, with text along the lines of "I'd like to be a submarine today"
Lol my dad has saved 2,3 drowning people, first one was a German who just said Danke and walked off! The second was drowning old couple they actually bought him dinner! He was an exceptional swimmer (as well as cricketer,r ugby player motorbike racer and shot) he would swim down rivers for fun!
Another friend had to rescue his mate when the guy got a hole in his boat... One problem this was night in Cairns in Australia which is full of crocodiles and sharks!
Tell the story about the one third of an dude he saved.
Congrats on getting to 100k subs!!
Edit: he’s on 99.9k when writing this
That's alot of submarines
Stavinair Caeruleum I don’t think we have enough depth charges
It seems the Captain was the smartest, save yourself alll the problems and just go down with the ship!
Don’t jump off the back of the ship, stationary or moving propellers will kill.
Jumping off ships with the early life preservers from higher up could cause broken necks and death as when hitting the water the best was forced up violently.
Which is why Admiral Yamaguchi and Captain Kaku ordered the money in the Hiryu's safe to be left as was, to pay for Charon to ferry them across the River Styx, as well as to pay for a square meal in hell (per Walter Lord's "Incredible Victory").
When I was in the navy, my biggest fear was the ship capsizeing... and since I was a engineer(machinist mate), the chances of being trapped in the main engine spaces during said capsize event were high.
So. I made my own escape kit: a bunch of wrenches pre-sized to open the manhole access to the main condenser, allowing for escape thru either the main condenser scoop, main condenser suction side of the pump, or main condenser discharge.
Yes, I was that concerned.
And even if the ship wasn't capsizing, escape via aforementioned escape points was also possible if the ship was going down by the head as well.
Drach spent 3 months down the local swimming pool practicing all of these techniques as part of his extensive research, lilos and inflatables were only used when *absolutely* necessary!
You joke but that is how modern sailors get their initial training for lifejackets and rafts. Being able to train people how to work with this equipment in a controlled environment is pretty useful
USS Franklin crew be like: Just don’t sink lol
*no one's left alive to laugh with you*
Sharks:No,sink,we dare you,go ahead,we're ready.
Sadly it was more like: Crew: I'm about to burn to death if I don't jump off the ship, I will take my chances in the sea. Other Crew: Abandon Ship has been called, you say. I didn't hear it but I will obey. Still Other Crew: Oh dear, I seem to be flying towards the water, must be that huge explosion near me. Captain Gehres, in port later: I charge you all with Desertion.
When you know exactly what happen ob Franklin there is absolutely zero to laugh about.
NOTHING.
I guess you must really crack up when remembering the USS Indianapolis CA-35 also?
@@stevejfromak842 well, humour is meant to be offensive, so get off your moral high horse and kiss my ass. Life doesn't give a flying fuck, neither should we.
For a merit badge in the Boy Scouts, I had to jump into the deep end of a pool fully dressed with pants and a belt, plus a shirt. Because this was the 1990s, my choice of extremely wide leg JNCO jeans was a terrible choice. I learned this after sinking like a stone to the bottom. It wasn’t all bad though; after they were off and the legs were tied together, they turned into an inflated life vest the size of a truck inner tube with my head in the middle after getting them topside. I saw a picture later and it looked like I was being intimate with Rosie O’Donnell
God, "disagreeable" is such an amusing way to describe a ship, I love it.
I'm so early that the 2nd Pacific Squadron hasn't left port yet
ARE YOU A TORPEDO BOAT?
Did someone say torpedo boat? PANIC STATIONS FIRE THE MAIN GUNS
Do you see torpedo boats?
*Throws binoculars and rambles incoherently in Russian*
*Torpedo boats attacking from all possible directions*
I think the anecdote that sticks with me about a survivor in the water was one by an escort crewman from the Battle of the Atlantic. His ship was escorting a convoy and some ships were sunk. There was one man in the sea waving and crying for help. The captain gave orders to ignore him and continue on. As the ship passed him, the man yelled, "Taxi, taxi..." He knew he was doomed, but he made a joke out of it at the end. I'll never forget the man who told that story, the expression he wore. It was like he was haunted by the experience. But, that's my opinion of what I saw when I watched that documentary.
Drach's version of 'OMG, the tank is on fire!'.
The panic is real. Learned that when I took my stress and rescue course to get my master diver. We were trained to knock out a panicked rescuee if necessary, just to get them on their back and breathing while towed. I carry a dive knife with a blunt ended handle just in case.
As a kid, I attempted a rescue on another kid in the city reservoir. He did the "climb on and cling", and I had to dive down until he ket go, then swim laterally do he couldn't grab me again when I surfaced.
Fortunately a grownup whose name I never learned spotted us.
I was floating by then, so he clocked the other kid, and towed him to shore, and then needed help peeling the kid off at the side, so they could both get out.
Fun fact, Charles Lightoller (2nd officer on Titanic) was sucked into a vent and carried down for a few hundred (?) feet until something exploded down below and pushed him to the surface. He would then go on to rescue people from Dunkirk in his motor yacht Sundowner.
Another fine offering. Not a great deal that I wasn't already aware of but made for a sobering thought experience. As a former infantryman, I'll take a nice jungle setting on solid ground if I'm in combat, though the Navy certainly has a number of attractions over slogging thru Indochina on foot.
No matter the branch of service here's a glass raised to combat veterans of every stripe
yesss I loved the USS Franklin video damage control is such an interesting aspect of naval warfare
At 99.9K subscribers I'm going to offer my slightly premature yet well deserved congratulations!
I was required to take and pass a course called Drownproofing to graduate from college. The techniques were developed during WW2 to help sailors avoid drowning after their ship was sunk. Very valuable experience!
Well this was a great thing for me to watch before I spend a long time out at sea on a ship, scary and informative. Very informative. It might save my life. Can't wait to show my future ship mates.
Drach: "How does one survive being unceremoniously being dumped in the ocean?"
Me: As tiresome and incumbent upon an individual as this may be perhaps swimming would be the answer.
Sips tea
How to cope with the ship sinking?
Let's ask HMS Sheffield's crew...singing Always Look on the Bright Side of Life.
Huh. Worse things happen at sea, you know?
At least there wasn't any cannibalism.
Singing? Bah! Amateurs! Birkenhead drill, chaps!
@@hellhound47bravo3 I definitely remember the news reports of cannibalism in the Royal Navy, and not whilst under duress, during routine operations.
Awesome content. Btw, yes there is suction and aeration, but there is also a rip current effect. As the ship goes down water molecules will stick to it and form chains that will also connect to you, and that can also pull you down. Basically, get away from a ship that is sinking.
In the last nearly 2 years. I've seen some excellent titles pop up from you.
This is easily the best. I actually laughed out loud
Whats the old saying?
"When they are on the ship they are the enemy, once they are off they are a fellow Mariner in distress."
Oil is an extreme hazard as it also tends to be toxic so if it gets ingested, it can make you very sick with vomiting and diarrhea which will quickly sap your endurance. It will also make you become dehydrated very quickly making fresh water all the more important. However, oil has a very specific niche use that can actually aid in your survival. Because it sticks to everything it makes for a very effective sun screen. Just be careful not to get any in your eyes as it will burn like hell. Survivors from the Indianapolis would deliberately coat themselves in oil to protect their heads from the sun. Also, in addition to the Carley floats, USN ships tended to carry a device known as a floater net. Which was basically just a large net with floats attached to it. These would be thrown over the side roughly at the same time as the Carley floats and performed the same basic function. Although they tended to not have any supplies and were purely a form of flotation.
The Carley float had one major drawback in that it did not really protect its occupants from the elements. Since they were basically floating in the water instead of out of it. Which is why they were eventually replaced by inflatable rafts. An inflatable raft being even more compact when stored on ship and able to keep sailors out of the freezing water when deployed.
I served in the RN in the late 80's and early 90's. This is a very good presentation on survival at sea. I have a RN reference book for the 25 man life raft BR1329 (boof reference 1329). The basic principle is to enter the sea wearing an immersion suite (if time allows) and life jacket, to make your way form the ship and enter a life raft. To enter the water step off the platform with head up holding the life jacket with arms over the chest and enter the water with the legs scissored as in an open step. One hand holding the nose. This method breaks the drop into the water and keeps the top half of the body away from any underwater obstacle. Once on board the life raft to bail it out and secure it. Modern rafts have water, rations and some have manually wound radio's too.
I found this to be quite interesting. I've had my own boat and learned all that I could about having to ditch so much of the detail was familiar. But, more importantly, your story really brought images of my father's WW II experience into my mind. He was on the Royal Canadian navy Frigate HMCS Teme doing anti-submarine patrol about a week after D-Day, running with lights out in the wee hours when they were accidentally rammed by the British carrier HMS Tracker. My father was thrown into the water, suffered some oil and salt water ingestion but managed to be rescued by members of his crew. I do have a bit of a auto-biography of his time in the RCN and a good photo of the HMCS Teme's damage. If you would like either, please reply and let me know.
That would be great!
I've watched this materpiece many times now and it's always as hilarious as it is horrific - this is why I keep coming back. Cornerstone video Drach!
Listen to any interview with Ted Briggs (RIP) If you don't think suction is a real thing.
Someone should tell "Mythbusters". They sank a small fishing boat and concluded that suction is a myth.
Has no one actually tested this properly and to scale? There were plenty of defunct large cargo and war ships that were flippantly sunk in weapon testing as a tourist attraction or reef building and no one thought to put either protected scuba divers or sensors to scientifically understand the phenomenon and even perhaps come upon data that might help formulate a survival plan for this specific phenomenon that could save lives?
@BC Bob it is a real thing
It is NOT suction. It is a column of entrained air - small bubbles - "pulled" into the water by the descending ship. This radically lowers the effective density of the water, so you fall down the column very rapidly. Has exactly the same feeling (and outcome) as suction, but that's not what it is.
This was tested repeatedly by the boffins in WW2, for obvious reasons.
I have watched this three or 4 times now have the last few months, great video so thanks Drach. But more than anything it's the title of this video that draws me in, possibly the best title I've ever seen in any RUclips video ever!
I did extensive ship board fire fighting training including engine rooms aircraft storage lockers.
One is told to use the back of their hand to check the temperature of closed hatches in case it's very hot scalding the back of your hand still allows one to use their hand.. oh great.
One team would keep the other drenched in water i can say few things are as distracting as boiling water dripping onto you from redhot pieces of ship.
Often you cannot see due to electrical failure and or smoke . Pretty much your doomed and can only hope to save the ship or ship mates
Part of the back of hand (or back of fingernails) is an injured palm may reflex grip tighter extending the contact time getting a worse burn. The back of the hand reflex is snap away. The fingernail I learned in metal shop as it also buffers a bit.
@@b1laxson For "testing" if something is electrically "hot", use the back of your hand so if shock contracts the muscles, the stronger adductors (close fist) vs the abductors (open fist) don't cause you to get a death grip on the wire. For "testing" if something is thermally hot, also use the back of your hand, but for a different reason. The skin on the palm side is very thick and you won't register the pain (and reflexively jerk your hand away) until quite a bit of damage has been done. This can be quite inconvenient if you need to grip a doorknob or climb down a ladder. The skin on the back is quite thin and you'll often register the heat before much damage is done.
"Oh god the ship is disagreeable"
What did it do? Recommend the ocean floor as their next (and last) vacation location?
brilliant! Please give us more in depth explorations of topics like this! It's one thing learning about specifications of those ships, quite another to hear about the risks and circumstances arising from operating them. Cheers!
32:20 oh Drach, a reference to one of my favourite memes:
Life preserver or life vest or life jacket. Hang on a minute, how could this thing be a danger to me? It's inherent in the name, it's a life preserver isn't it?
Very droll and delightfully dry, unlike the subject (sea)! Always an enjoyable and educational purview!
Cheers!
Me : not really interested by the subject of the video
My brain : Dude. You never know
Hahaha ...I can really relate to that. For me, it was a video called Principles of Longwall Mining. I had never had any interest in mining of any sort but my brain convinced me to give that video a chance. And so began the odyssey.
There are so many things to be concerned about for an abandon ship. Hypothermia, sunburn, salt rash, any fire that may be on the water because of burning oil, debris in the water, dehydration, starvation. Injured people make everything harder too. All of that is not even including staying afloat. Hopefully you catch on a life raft. That's why abandoning ship has to be such a last resort. Good job on touching on so much of it. Really a fan of your stuff.
I read an account, I think it was from a sailor on the Indianapolis, who said, when he was rescued he took off the life jacket and just dropped it in the water - and watched it sink. He wondered how long he had been keeping IT afloat.
Congratulations on the 100k subs! They're well deserved!
I almost expected the opening: "Greetings All!"
If you do have to jump cross your arms, keep your legs straight and cover your nose. Remember to thrash your arms above your head to clear oil/fire/debris when surfacing. If you have to swim under fire /oil do the same. Excellent video and history. “For those in peril on the sea”
I’m a veteran of the USN (‘61-‘63). I was a scuba diver(collector for the marine biology museum @ NAS Pt. Mugu Ca.). Was asked/volunteered to spend 12 hrs instrumented, (heart rate, breathing, temperature) after being dumped in the water, retrieving & inflating a one man survival raft. Was wearing typical flight crew uniform of dungaree shirt, dungaree pants, tee shirt & skivvies and a white hat. The shoes were the reward for my service, a much sought after pair of “flight deckers”. These were rough-out, light colored, desert boot type with a special sole that didn’t mark the flight deck. And Did Not need to be polished. This was spring in Southern California and I got pretty cold. As I remember the raft had a ‘poncho with a hood so I was protected from the wind/spray. I think it was from 1800 to 0600. At the time I thought I was being picked on and mistreated but after watching some of the videos of the World Wars I’ve come to realize how fortunate I’ve been and how grateful I am to the people who had the courage to do what they did so that I can have the amazing, free life I have. I remember going to the beach in Santa Monica (I lived there most of my life) with my mom,age 4-5, and her showing me balls of tar/bunker oil? and telling me it was from the ship’s that were sunk during the War. Thank you for your interest in preserving maritime history and being willing to, and enjoying sharing it with the world.
Maybe that was oil from the Honda Point disaster? There's a good video on this channel about that incident; Santa Barbara to Santa Monica probably isn't too far for some old leaky ship's oil to make it.
That is the best title I’ve read out of all the naval/marine themed RUclips videos I’ve ever watched.
I recommend reading "Man on a Raft" by Kenneth Cooke. It's a gripping account of British seamen's survival struggles after being sunk during WWII.
I still think that this video has the best title on RUclips.