As an experienced bass player myself, the Wal period was Geddy's finest playing IMO. Also, the Wal is a fine instrument with a frighteningly good bottom end. I blame the mix here.
Great song! Neil has said this was ONE of the difficult ones to write lyrics for because he wanted it to be historically correct! Be well and God bless…. From Texas!!
Because he had to play so much around the synth, I think this era is some of Alex's most imaginative chord play. He had to carve out his little piece of the pie.
Nothing wrong with the WAL. This is a direct mono soundboard feed recording. No multitracks, no remix. Not for comercial release. All sounds wrong. You can hear the WAL properly on "A Show Of Hands". We know it's not Fender or Rickenbacker, but it's a nice bass. The complain go for these keyboards which can't reproduce the Moog, Oberheim and other beasts for the old songs.
I love the Wal’s sound. I like how it doesn’t really have a huge punch when Geddy plays and I think it’s aggressive enough for this genre as well. Also, the Wal better be a good bass based on how expensive the model Geddy used is!
You should know Alex by now. His kick at the camera was just him messing around like he always is. He's never serious unless he's having equipment issues. This was a bad era regarding both, Alex's choice of guitars with those Signature Guitars and their super thin single coil sounds, which also didn't help with having any girth in their overall sound. And yes, you're a 💯% on Geddy's bass. They were writing some great songs through this time, though, and it was soon after this that Alex started using PRS Guitars, and Geddy still used the Wal Bass through the next record and tour before he started using Fender.
Justin, Alex didn't like the camera angle on him. 😂"Manhattan Project" The only Rock band in history to create a song about the atom bomb. I have no clue what Wal Bass is? Less Sound? Absolutely love "The Pass"
The entire thing lacks depth and bass. The guitar and drums. Except the keys. Maybe. Everyone else had to compensate. It’s the 80’s. Kinda how it sounded. They made their own version of the 80’s sound. Like it or not. And they had to claw their way back to a thicker deeper approach to sound. Slow and steady.
I've seen Alex get mad a couple of different times on concert videos. Here's probably the maddest I've seen him get (he gets mad at about 3:43 in the linked video) ruclips.net/video/FOjWRbxEwdQ/видео.html He was mad because a drunk lady wouldn't stop yelling during the show. You can hear her yelling at the beginning of the video, during Alex' acoustic intro.
Filming quality for this show was awful (even for 90s standards). Terribly awkward use of zooms (although zooms are great if done well) and unflatteringly bad low angles on Geddy. No wonder they didn’t want this finished and released back then. But of course a revisionist new release of this with properly mixed audio and better/finished editing would be appreciated now. 🐾
and R40 tour production is great too and second half of the show is SPECTACULAR. No, Geddy’s voice isnt perfect on every song but it doesnt detract from the enjoyment of the show.
Skip R40 if you want. Or just as well sample it. Love Rush, but I've heard some songs here more than enough to satisfy me. Maybe ones you've not heard like Losing it & Clockwork Angels songs? Or top comment suggestions?
I love the Wal, I bet it just sounds better from the studio version of the songs or in person. Also I think the Alex thing was him asking the camera person if he hit them or him telling a security guard to sit down because I read that on a video.
I wish more people would fist time this very much overlooked song. There's a video that goes along with this. You won't be disappointed in watching it.
Not a favorite. I have seen Alex get upset with security when they were blocking the view of concert goers. Maybe the camera person was blocking some people's view.
This song is so much about that bass too IMO. Just cherry pick the stuff you really want from R40. Instrumentals from earlier stuff, vocals from more recent stuff. Good luck. If you have to make faces at yourself in the mirror until you can laugh again...
Not really feeling anything Geddy on this tour...agree on the bass. Also the keyboard does sound different and even his vocal choices seem off a bit to me. Oh well. Neil and Alex sound great.
Perfect example of Rush fans being defensive. You said that Wal bass sucks and I had a knee jerk reaction. How dare he?! Then I remembered I said the same thing.
I wasn't a big fan of the guitars Alex was using at the time, either. I think they're all using the same gear they used for the Hold Your Fire tour (or, A Show of Hands, if you will). The guitars also sounded very thin to me. It's as if for the live recordings somebody took an equalizer and turned all the bass channels to -10, and then left all the midrange and treble at 0. So it may not just be the Wal bass (although I'm sure it doesn't help), but also the sound production in general (in my very un-professional opinion).
Marathon is on the Time Machine Tour video, I've got to say as a Rush fan that the Orchestra which was on the Clockwork Angels tour didn't work for me when I saw it live, having seem them live since 1977 it felt like an intrusion and I don't think they brought anything musically to the show over and above what the band were doing with all the gear and samples, triggers and so on, Time Machine was the best of the latter years tours for me, we didn't get R40 in the UK.
I agree about the Wal bass in general. But Geddy I believe also uses the Wal bass on the Show of Hands version and you can hear the bass. The SOH version I believe is the best live version. While this Presto tour version has little bass I think it’s mostly because it’s a poor or largely unproduced recording rather than blaming it all on the Wal bass. That being said, it’s a good thing Geddy soon switched to Jazz basses.
I would say do Clockwork Angels album and tour and see how you feel about Geddy's voice. He has a bit of a warble going on at that point but you might get used to it and be ok with R40. If not, fine - no need to be a masochist 😂
By far my least favorite song on an otherwise masterpiece of an album. Just seemed gratuitous to me. Another attempt at a "prestige" song. And I personally don't believe anything about that ridiculous story. Even the performance here seemed strained.
I know Geddy really got into Jeff Berlin for a while, and he was a big Wal player. The problem was JB was a Jaco devotee and was into that rubbery fretless sound. Unfortunately, the sound Geddy is known for is almost 180 degrees in the other direction. He (and the producers) must have thought it would work well within the context of Rush's mid 80's synth-driven sound. But yeah, you still need a bottom end, and it's not coming from the keyboards.
IIRC someone mentioned in a previous forum that the Clockwork Angels Tour was when they performed more songs from Power Windows. As for Manhattan Project, I could never really tell the difference between the Wahl bass and the others, but it was really noticeable here, and I definitely prefer the performance from A Show Of Hands.
Rush would often sell out when they come to Detroit. That’s why they would have a second or third show. The Palace of Auburn Hills would have great acoustics, so I don’t remember if the bass disappeared or not. I just remember that the concert felt different.
This was the first tour I saw live and I just turned 50 … this is hitting all the feels for me. I saw every tour from this one thru Clockwork Angels… they skipped Pittsburgh on R40.
I don’t know if it’s the pickups or the EQ but that bass ain’t got no booty. Much prefer the Fender, the Ric & even the Steinberger. Most drummers I know really like DW kits.
Most drummers I know, including myself, are not crazy about the DW kits. Same with majority of Rush fans in general. Read threads about it on too many Rush message boards to count.
“I’m Geddy Lee! And I’ll play whatever bass I want!” 🤣
You forgot the “and I’ll still make it sound good” part
As an experienced bass player myself, the Wal period was Geddy's finest playing IMO. Also, the Wal is a fine instrument with a frighteningly good bottom end. I blame the mix here.
I agree. I think the recording sucks.
I'm sure the sound on the recording is different than how it sounds in the venue as well.
Great song! Neil has said this was ONE of the difficult ones to write lyrics for because he wanted it to be historically correct! Be well and God bless…. From Texas!!
“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
Geddy's voice is absolutely great in this.
Because he had to play so much around the synth, I think this era is some of Alex's most imaginative chord play. He had to carve out his little piece of the pie.
Nothing wrong with the WAL. This is a direct mono soundboard feed recording. No multitracks, no remix. Not for comercial release. All sounds wrong. You can hear the WAL properly on "A Show Of Hands". We know it's not Fender or Rickenbacker, but it's a nice bass. The complain go for these keyboards which can't reproduce the Moog, Oberheim and other beasts for the old songs.
I love the Wal’s sound. I like how it doesn’t really have a huge punch when Geddy plays and I think it’s aggressive enough for this genre as well.
Also, the Wal better be a good bass based on how expensive the model Geddy used is!
You should know Alex by now. His kick at the camera was just him messing around like he always is. He's never serious unless he's having equipment issues. This was a bad era regarding both, Alex's choice of guitars with those Signature Guitars and their super thin single coil sounds, which also didn't help with having any girth in their overall sound. And yes, you're a 💯% on Geddy's bass. They were writing some great songs through this time, though, and it was soon after this that Alex started using PRS Guitars, and Geddy still used the Wal Bass through the next record and tour before he started using Fender.
I never heard anyone say Geddy's bass sucks before! 😜
Justin, Alex didn't like the camera angle on him. 😂"Manhattan Project" The only Rock band in history to create a song about the atom bomb. I have no clue what Wal Bass is? Less Sound? Absolutely love "The Pass"
Really not the only rock song about the atomic bomb. Gary Moore’s “Hiroshima” and “End of the World” are two examples & there are others.
And also Enola gay by O.M.D
Power Windows EASILY my fave mid 80's Rush album
The entire thing lacks depth and bass. The guitar and drums. Except the keys. Maybe. Everyone else had to compensate. It’s the 80’s. Kinda how it sounded. They made their own version of the 80’s sound. Like it or not. And they had to claw their way back to a thicker deeper approach to sound. Slow and steady.
I've seen Alex get mad a couple of different times on concert videos. Here's probably the maddest I've seen him get (he gets mad at about 3:43 in the linked video) ruclips.net/video/FOjWRbxEwdQ/видео.html He was mad because a drunk lady wouldn't stop yelling during the show. You can hear her yelling at the beginning of the video, during Alex' acoustic intro.
Filming quality for this show was awful (even for 90s standards). Terribly awkward use of zooms (although zooms are great if done well) and unflatteringly bad low angles on Geddy. No wonder they didn’t want this finished and released back then. But of course a revisionist new release of this with properly mixed audio and better/finished editing would be appreciated now. 🐾
Don’t skip Clockwork Angels Tour or R40 Tour
Definitely skip these
Clockwork Angels Tour is one of their best produced tours and one of their most interesting setlists
MORE RUSH MORE RUSH MORE RUSH 🐾🐾🐾🐾
and R40 tour production is great too and second half of the show is SPECTACULAR. No, Geddy’s voice isnt perfect on every song but it doesnt detract from the enjoyment of the show.
and I mean great production as in the set designs and lighting, not audio production
I hated the wal bass era too not the songs
piss poor audio on this one
Skip R40 if you want. Or just as well sample it. Love Rush, but I've heard some songs here more than enough to satisfy me. Maybe ones you've not heard like Losing it & Clockwork Angels songs? Or top comment suggestions?
Alex was singing “EVERYBODY WAS KUNG FOO FIGHTING”
I have always loved this song, it’s tied with Territories for top song on Power Windows for me.
I love the Wal, I bet it just sounds better from the studio version of the songs or in person. Also I think the Alex thing was him asking the camera person if he hit them or him telling a security guard to sit down because I read that on a video.
Time Machine tour Cleveland is fantastic IMO. They do Marathon on it.
Worst bass tone. EVER. There was never anything wrong with the Rickenbacker or even Precision from first album?
I wish more people would fist time this very much overlooked song.
There's a video that goes along with this. You won't be disappointed in watching it.
Yes, do not skip time machine, clockwork angels tour , or R40 you will not regret it, plus you can squeeze in grace under pressure tour.
Not a favorite. I have seen Alex get upset with security when they were blocking the view of concert goers. Maybe the camera person was blocking some people's view.
This song is so much about that bass too IMO.
Just cherry pick the stuff you really want from R40. Instrumentals from earlier stuff, vocals from more recent stuff. Good luck. If you have to make faces at yourself in the mirror until you can laugh again...
Not really feeling anything Geddy on this tour...agree on the bass. Also the keyboard does sound different and even his vocal choices seem off a bit to me. Oh well. Neil and Alex sound great.
Perfect example of Rush fans being defensive. You said that Wal bass sucks and I had a knee jerk reaction. How dare he?! Then I remembered I said the same thing.
Great song, but not unfortunately not a good live sound on this version. There are better live versons of this song IMO.
I wasn't a big fan of the guitars Alex was using at the time, either. I think they're all using the same gear they used for the Hold Your Fire tour (or, A Show of Hands, if you will). The guitars also sounded very thin to me. It's as if for the live recordings somebody took an equalizer and turned all the bass channels to -10, and then left all the midrange and treble at 0. So it may not just be the Wal bass (although I'm sure it doesn't help), but also the sound production in general (in my very un-professional opinion).
Marathon is on the Time Machine Tour video, I've got to say as a Rush fan that the Orchestra which was on the Clockwork Angels tour didn't work for me when I saw it live, having seem them live since 1977 it felt like an intrusion and I don't think they brought anything musically to the show over and above what the band were doing with all the gear and samples, triggers and so on, Time Machine was the best of the latter years tours for me, we didn't get R40 in the UK.
I agree about the Wal bass in general. But Geddy I believe also uses the Wal bass on the Show of Hands version and you can hear the bass. The SOH version I believe is the best live version. While this Presto tour version has little bass I think it’s mostly because it’s a poor or largely unproduced recording rather than blaming it all on the Wal bass. That being said, it’s a good thing Geddy soon switched to Jazz basses.
The bass sound was so insubstantial that I knew it sucked even before you mentioned it.
R40 is great song selection. You’ll get over the voice.
I would say do Clockwork Angels album and tour and see how you feel about Geddy's voice. He has a bit of a warble going on at that point but you might get used to it and be ok with R40. If not, fine - no need to be a masochist 😂
I goot to see this tour in Pittsburgh, PA back when. They lways have interesting props for their shows.
Unnecessarily Harsh?…Nah 😆
To realize I paid to see that tour! Sound quality does sux .
That's how I felt if I gave to be honest
Marathon is o time machine tour.👍
Neil sounded like a mediocre sounding drum machine sounds. Yikes. What the frijole?
Bad recording. Those Ludwigs live are absolute fire on other live recordings.
By far my least favorite song on an otherwise masterpiece of an album. Just seemed gratuitous to me. Another attempt at a "prestige" song. And I personally don't believe anything about that ridiculous story. Even the performance here seemed strained.
What don't you believe? Are you part of that MAGA conspiracy camp? lol
I love the tone of the guitar at the same time I hate it!!! D W drum kit is the best kit he had.
Yeah right. DW doesn't come close to the Ludwig kit. Correct order: Ludwig..Tama.........................DW.....Slingerland.
I know Geddy really got into Jeff Berlin for a while, and he was a big Wal player. The problem was JB was a Jaco devotee and was into that rubbery fretless sound. Unfortunately, the sound Geddy is known for is almost 180 degrees in the other direction. He (and the producers) must have thought it would work well within the context of Rush's mid 80's synth-driven sound. But yeah, you still need a bottom end, and it's not coming from the keyboards.
IIRC someone mentioned in a previous forum that the Clockwork Angels Tour was when they performed more songs from Power Windows. As for Manhattan Project, I could never really tell the difference between the Wahl bass and the others, but it was really noticeable here, and I definitely prefer the performance from A Show Of Hands.
Rush would often sell out when they come to Detroit. That’s why they would have a second or third show. The Palace of Auburn Hills would have great acoustics, so I don’t remember if the bass disappeared or not. I just remember that the concert felt different.
This was the first tour I saw live and I just turned 50 … this is hitting all the feels for me. I saw every tour from this one thru Clockwork Angels… they skipped Pittsburgh on R40.
I can tell you're already knee-deep in Beyond the Lighted Stage. 😁
Actually well past it in real time lol 😂
I don’t know if it’s the pickups or the EQ but that bass ain’t got no booty. Much prefer the Fender, the Ric & even the Steinberger.
Most drummers I know really like DW kits.
Honestly. Wait til tomorrow. The Steinberger comes out and we can A-B the Stein to the Wal for several days.
Most drummers I know, including myself, are not crazy about the DW kits. Same with majority of Rush fans in general. Read threads about it on too many Rush message boards to count.