Who Are the Greatest Female Characters Ever? | Game/Show | PBS Digital Studios
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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Women are awesome. Obviously. But for some reason, developers are reticent to give women larger roles in their games. The females we see most often are overly sexualized, at the mercy of men, and when they happen to be solid characters, the game doesn't allow you to play as them!! So who ARE the best female characters in games? Watch the episode and find out!!
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Strong female characters? Psh! PSH!! Come on, man. What are you, freakin Anita Sarkeesian? Heheh heheheh heheheh! Am I right, fellas? Heheheh! High five! Anyone...? No...? Okay...
But seriously, what about Rosalina? I think she's the best female character in the Mario series. She's no princess. She's no damsel in distress. She's the captain of a space comet and adopted mother of cute little Lumas. And she was one of the most useful playable characters in 3D World. I also like that she's not a female character who acts masculine. A lot of people seem to think that a strong female character is someone who does traditionally masculine things, like there's something wrong with femininity. I disagree. Someone can be feminine while still being strong, independent, and most of all important.
I completely agree with what you said about Rosalina and people treating femininity as a bad thing, when it definitely isn't.
Also, you're totally right about her being awesome in 3D World, and it looks like she'll be fun to play as in Smash Bros. too.
Granted, I'm not a female myself, but still, people are all, "FEMALES HAVE TO BE MASCULINE! BECAUSE THAT IS TOTALLY THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN BE INDEPENDENT!" when that's not true in any way.
*reaches out for fist bump*
I don't trust Anita's videos and I don't know if anything she says is true. Having played the games she mentions, she twists them to suit her own agenda. Strong female characters exist outside of feminism.
Rosalina stands out along with Luigi. I haven't seen much, if any, character development other than in side games. It's why I prefer the side games over the main series.
Zero Wat *fist bump*
KirbyPhelpsPK Heck yeah!
Hell yeah, Kirby. I don't know about Rosalina, I don't usually hang out with Mario, but on the acting masculine thing, damn. Ok, I may be a little masculine myself, but it is a personality trait, is not like a want to display a masculine image so I can be treated as a man, as an independent and strong human being. Seems like equality is about women becoming men, instead of both genders learning to be a little more like the other to give the best of ourselves. Like, if I shave my legs and wear eye-shadow every once in awhile, then I have no right to be a feminist.
I make video games in my spare time, though I'm not very good at story and character design (I am a programmer & I can do game art).
My games have women characters, but I would also like to add more diversity on more than just an aesthetic level. If anyone wants to collaborate and share their personal experiences (whether it's being a woman, and/or a not-white-person, and/or LGBT, and/or another underrepresented demographic), please feel free to reach out.
What sort of video game are you making?
yeh,I think that if you are a white male who has a penis and is pround to have said penis then you should not include them in your game,that's too mainstream imo.
Most of my games are 2D... SHMUPS, platformers, lite-RPGs
Rachel Morris I do a lot of writing and i can help with the story, if you want some help in that area but i can't code worth my life. if you interested i can show you some examples of my work
I have always liked the idea of a dungeon crawler that included various puzzles. More than the average puzzles, plus turn-based battle. Using the problem solving skills for both puzzles and character dev would be fun. Plus add silly humor ala Discworld or HHGTTG. Make us laugh and think. That would be my dream game.
Speaking of female video game characters.
I have recently realised that there is an extreme lack of black female protaganists in games, the only one I can think of are Rochelle from Left 4 Dead 2, and Flavia from Fire Emblem Awakening.
Nilin from remember me is half black if that makes things any better.
Here's a shorter list. Latina protagonists.
Yup.
Sheva from Resident Evil 5.
***** life was easier when everyone was a cluster of pixels.
Double-minorities rarely ever receive recognition or representation. The standard formula for games, movies, and other media:
--Protagonist who is 90% of the time a White male
--White male Villain (occasionally Asian or Middle Eastern stereotypes)
--Friends, sidekicks, and teammates who are almost all White males
--(Optional) Friend who is either a non-White or a gay male
--White female love interest, typically either rescued by or taught some kind of lesson by the White male protagonist, after which they become romantically interested. Rare occasions East Asian or light-skinned Latina, only ever Black if the protagonist is also Black (and even then it's no guarantee)
--(Optional) Second female character, rarely a third, usually White, almost always with much smaller roles than the first
Not that there aren't those that deviate from this formula, but the overwhelming majority of American media pretty much stays within these lines
So, the argument that a strong female character has to be a playable character is...really dumb. I do agree that there should be more good female protagonists, but a nonplayable character is not non-central the way you seem to think. I mean, is the villain of the game a secondary character just cuz they aren't playable? No, obviously not. There are plenty of npc characters that are vital to the story and central driving forces behind the game, just like the protagonist.
exactly, The Boss(mgs3) and all of the sorcerers from FF8 are all incredibly strong fleshed out characters
not only is that true, i'd even say that in many games the main antagonists are overall better characters than the protagonist.
I didn't say it was non-central. But playing a character is what makes games, well, games. If non-playable characters were significant, then you could just send me a recording of someone else's playthough that would be just as meaningful. But nobody wants that right?
PBS Game/Show i'd argue playing against an obstacle is what makes a game a game, be it a pong bat or the final boss in Metal Gear Solid 3 who was also very important to the story & the protagonist.
PBS Game/Show But does playing a character make them a good one? Take half life 2 for example. Can you really say that Gordon Freeman, who lacks any real personality, is a stronger character than Alyx Vance, who actually has a personality? There are plenty of games where the protagonist is nothing more than a vehicle for the player to see the world in (the entire faceless protagonist trope). Thus, can being playable really be considered a requirement for a strong character? Would half life 2, with a flat protagonist, then have no strong characters? That's why I said its unreasonable to use that as a criteria.
What about Clementine from the walking dead game? not only a really good female character, but hands down the best child character in video games, and in season 2, you can play as her.
Because it's a 10 minute video and there so much to talk about in terms of women in video games that you can't possibly expect him to cover it all in a single video.
***** in season 2, you do
This video came off as kind of condescending. It's kind of excluding female as some sort of special thing that's supposed to be different. Even though the majority of playable characters are male we shouldn't be treating female characters as something special if we want to be normal.
No, it's treating female characters as something that is currently rare but shouldn't be and then giving examples as to why they shouldn't be rare.
Yeah, I agree. Also, I think it's kind of puritanical to say that if a girl is openly sexual she can't at all be in control or is not considered a strong female character. Bayonetta is really sexual but she's not subservient or dominated by anyone, but if a male character like Duke Nukem is over sexualized (a lot of his dialogue is about sex and his design is made to show of what Americans in the time considered traditionally masculine and "attractive") no one bats an eyelash.
RoloFilms Not really. It's excluding female characters from other characters and treating them differently. When he says things like "it's more fun to play as a girl than as a boy" you don't really get a strong message of equality. He's trying to sell female characters off as some sort of exceptional thing that are vastly different than male characters. Female characters aren't being treated as something that should be normal, but something that should be different. That's pretty misogynistic if you ask me.
artboy598 He's talking about sexualisation saturating the games. Sure, Duke Nukem's an example, but can you think of a lot of games where there are MALE strippers on a side mission and/or every MALE character has his body being showed off or him being all about how sexy he is? It is unjust to any group of people to mostly put them in to satisfy some demographic instead of doing that SOMEtimes only (doing it sometimes would be fine, is my point).
6TheLastBroadcaster6 Well... I can, but they are all Japanese games that very rarely get western releases and are targeted at 30+ year old women...
But, as I'm sure others have probably pointed out by now, you could play as Ellie...
I keep seeing the statistics that nearly 50% of gamers are female.
But I just don't feel this is accurate, at least in every place I lived.
I mean, if you count very casual games (ala farmville/flappy bird) you would get that.
But game enthusiasts/hobbyist that really appreciate a deep game experience and that are female are actually not common here.
I have probably 30 ladys(that are in the genaration of gamers) near my circle of friendship and none of them are "gamer".
Half of the men I know (of the right generation) are gamers.
Don't get me wrong. I would love more women in gaming, but I feel like that statistic is not really consistent with reality.
It could be that I have a skewed dataset, or that this is a regional thing of course.
But that statistic just "feels" wrong to me.
Diogo V. Kersting
I would just like to take the time to repeat an analogy which i feel applies here.
I was out at a pub with my friend, and at the pub we met a lady who was vocal about how she did not understand how our current prime minister got elected, Since everyone she knew had not voted for him, so she was outraged and confused as to how this happened. What she did not realise, or failed to take into account was other people in other states traditionally voted for the party our prime minister belonged to, and they have a much larger population then our state.
So i may suggest to you, that perhaps trying to compare your personal circle of friends (which is limited to people you know). To a study which would gather data from a much larger source is kind of flawed, at least for statistical purposes.
I hope I was able to get my point across?
Yeah definitely.
if you include the 70 Y/o librarian plaing solitaire the stats are accurate.
You are assuming that females necessary take up more casual gaming space than men, but I know plenty of guys that play casual games and nothing else. Honestly, without support, your "feeling" that the statistic, which is based on some information is wrong, means nothing, and is probably baseless.
On a side note, who are you to say who a "gamer" is? I don't think people who play nothing but FPS are "gamers", but those are the people who tend to be labeled as such, despite never playing a critically acclaimed game - all I'm saying is that labels like "casual" and "gamer" are pretty much as meaningless as you "feeling". You can take those labels to mean anything.
You're absolutely right. The statistic includes women who play Candy Crush and Angry Birds, not those that demand complex characters and female protagonists. The social-justice warriors and feminists are just being dishonest and manipulative.
good characters DON'T have to be playable. there is a difference between protagonist and a character in a game. for example The Boss is one of the greatest characters in any video game regardless of gender and she is never playable
except bosses are "antagonists," and minorities vilified has been done enough to elicit it as its own form of racism.
OurayTheOwl The Boss isn't a minority and having a minority as a villain isn't the same as racism. people exist outside of their race you know. not every black character has to be a role model, they can exist as their own person separate from the rest of their race. or are video games racist against white people because 90% of antagonists are white
I'm not saying "good" = playable. But I am saying that being able to play as a character is the hallmark of games as a medium.
PBS Game/Show you made a list of great characters but only included playable characters. maybe the title should have been greatest female protagonists
PitchBlackFox yes but you made the distinction between protagonist and playable characters. Bosses are neither. I also understand that good characters don't have to be "good" morally as i also love the villains in some cases.
However, when the norm is to disparage a group of people by delegating them to minor roles, or antagonist roles it doesn't make them good characters. White people making up 90% of villains isn't the same when 90% of the protagonists are white. However, if 90% of all minority characters are villains or minor roles you can see the problem and hopefully the difference. So if you see female characters as NPC's consistently, that's probably an issue that even if we like that character.
I disagree with a couple points here, one, the idea that a good female character needs to be playable. I get what you mean and yes, we definitely need more female protagonists, but to say that characters like Elizabeth from bioshock and Ellie from tlou aren't great charactersjust because you don't play as them is pretty narrow minded.
Secondly your inclusion of characters because the game is innovative, portal may be a great game with a female lead but I don't think that makes chell a great character. She has no personality or any real backstory, she's basically just a shell (puns) of a character...there's really nothing there.
As for characters you missed, how about jade from beyond good and evil?
Well I'm thinking he means that to be a truly great character, they must take advantage of video gaming's main aspect, to play. Not saying that they're not great characters but it might as well be a movie or tv character.
Cale Smith We do know about Chell's character. In fact, her personality is central to the game's premise. She's stubborn to the extreme and very proud, which gave her the ability to face the challenges that Glados puts her through and be willing to gamble her life on experiments.
Hell, if it weren't for Ellie and Tess I wouldn't have played more than a few hours of TLOU. They made the intolerable asshole protagonist palatable.
I believe the reason he wanted to include them as playable characters is because (and I speak as a woman gamer) seeing a strong, female role-model in a game and PLAYING as one are two radically different things. It's observing versus representation. I want to represent a lead or a protagonist not watch a secondary or even tertiary female character dominate the screen.
***** Yeah, I can understand that. I'd love to see more female characters in lead protagonist roles. The games industry needs a massive boot up the arse in terms of its diversity, the days of "generic bald white man: the game" really need to end soon...
However, the problem I have with not including npc women is that it leaves out a lot of great characters and that's what this list was meant to be about, strong, well rounded female characters. The result is a list which fails to include characters like Ellie from TLOU but prominently features non-entities like Princess Peach and Ms Paman....
But yeah, I get why he made the rule to only include playable characters, the more I thought about it after my first comment, the more I felt it made sense, it just leaves a big void in the list in my opinion.
Did this guy play The Last of Us? You play as Ellie in the game.
Not only that, but for the moments where Tess was there, you follow her around, rather than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't play any of the game. The video showed Ellie and Riley when he mentioned Ellie and Tess.
I liked Jade (Beyond Good and Evil), The Mechromancer (Borderlands 2) and Alice (American McGee's).
Infinite Sheldon Yes and more yes
I think Jill Valentine is the best character in gaming. I'm literally changing my last name just because of her.
Jill valentine in Resident Evil 1 & 3 and Claire Redfield from Resident evil 2 are my favorite :)
1:41
Speak about how woman are over-sexuallized in games
Shows a picture of a figurine from an anime
wat
Knubbsal Did I say that because of that the whole video is invalid and that it doesn't relate to the topic and that that makes me smart ? Genius !
...It's not obvious to you that those were shown as examples of his point?
***** It is, I was just trying to point something and be somewhat funny.
Jeez, people, calm down... ._.
MyLittleScratchy The majority of us, myself included, were probably just slow to actually get the joke. I JUST NOW realized you were talking about an anime character being showcased in a video that focuses on female video game characters. lol
I think Celes and Tera in FF6 are my favorites of all time and more recently I think Edea from Bravely Default has a great story and character.
Edea is awesome
I like Agnes too, she shows that Girls don't have to be badass to be great.
Faris is a character I would add from the Final Fantasy line.
Dantaru78 True, a lot of the time female characters are included in movies and games, they for some reason feel the need to make all of them tough and badass. Not that women can't be tough and badass, they totally can, but is it not possible for a woman to hold her own in the story and have the audience appreciate her without making her essentially a clone of the male characters?
Honestly yeah those are great characters but almost all the female characters from final fantasy really deserve to be somewhere on the list because they are not really shown as sexual at all. One of the few franchises that isn't sexist as everything else
Lets reverse the rules given here and make them about men.
Rule 1: Men are nearly always overly sexulaised. Giant muscles, rugged good looks and a mix of very masculine stereotypes.
Rule 2: Men being given orders by women, while rare, is not questioned. Why should the opposite matter?
Rule 3: There is a plethora of different male characters in gaming, quality villains and "side kicks". Should we stop saying that antagonists can no longer be great male, or female, characters just because we cannot play as them?
These rules are really flawed. Great characters are great characters, some fit stereotypes and some don't. Just because they don't fit into certain lines or "rules" doesn't make them any worse.
Issues with your rules...
Rule 1: Men are not often sexualised or objectified. Gleaming muscles and looking rugged appeal to male players, as in "I want to play as this guy, because he is who i want to be". There are very few games which encourage us to be actual voyeurs of men, looking cute and petite, or creepily oiled-up and vulnerable.
Rule 2: Because they have less agency, and their story revolves around the man, rather than on their own issues. The character stops being about themselves. In cases where men are in command of a male, the male will often have their own issues outside of the woman.
Your Rule 3 is kind-of legit, because women can still be well written or independent characters. But the main issue the video was talking about there was that there are less videogames where women take the lead role, which is kid of a big issue.
The rules outlined in the video are meant to be indicative of a wider problem in the industry. Things might be okay as a lone part of a game, but when viewed through the lens that sees the majority of games failing to fairly represent women, it becomes a big problem.
Michael Gray I would assume that "sexualised" would mean making the character being the idle image, in some ways that means a vision of what is attractive. I see your points however and can see the faults in my counter argument,
Jamie Lancashire To be fair, I did incorrectly put "objectify" into my argument, when that is not necessarily the case with all sexualised characters (though it is a component).
LoL, keep trying
Hey, somebody deleted a bunch of comments from this thread. Comments that disagreed with and refuted the original posters premise. I find this highly suspicious.
Elizabeth from Bioshock. Period. End of discussion. Best female character ever.
Peter Dvornik
Not enough character flaws, Jeanette from vampire the masqurade.
Flaws are not nessessary for character developement
Peter Dvornik
Shor example: Luke skywalker, Han solo, and Leia Organa
Luke Skywalker = spends all 3 movies failing at everything he sets out to do, making his eventuall triumph against the emperor actually impressive.
Han solo: amoral douche looking after #1, him turning back to save the day in the first movie is still one of the greatest moments in the original trilogy
Leia: A noble rebel leader with a will of steel who doesnt afraid of anything, i literally cant remember what she did after the first movie
Flaws are not nessessary for character developement, but they help.
juho aalto they do help, but all thats really necessary is that the charactor changes throughout the story
The problem with looking at black and white statistics like "what percentage of females were the playable main characters in games?" is that statistics miss context... and I'm specifically talking about The Last Of Us. Do you "play as" Joel? Yes. But, definitively:
Every strong character in The Last Of Us is female. Period.
Every position of power, other than one psycho bad guy near the end, is female. Joel's original partner is strong, his brother's wife is strong (and pretty much in charge), and Ellie is undeniably strong. When a character near the end of the game asks how Joel and Ellie had survived for so long, Joel even says "it was her. She fought like hell to get here."
The entire game presents women as strong, complex characters in positions of power. You don't play as Joel because he has to "save Ellie, the damsel in distress," you play as Joel for a very specific reason (MINOR SPOILER ALERT): at a later point in the game, you play as Ellie, and the entire story up until that point is crafted in a way to elicit a specific emotional reaction from the player as a direct result of having to play as her. In addition, literally the only advantages Joel has over her are his height and relative strength, which are completely realistic because Ellie is a 14-year-old girl, and Joel is a gruff old man.
I'm glad Game/Show decided to address some strong female characters, because obviously it'd be nice to have more. But it has been awful watching The Last Of Us win Game of the Year in 2013 from basically every major publication (seriously, almost ALL of them) and seemingly NOBODY has acknowledged the prevalence and outright dominance of strong female characters in the story. If anyone wants to play a game with strong female characters, then The Last Of Us is the gold standard. There is no better game from that point of view, period.
So, great video, but I found the use of The Last Of Us as an example of NOT presenting a strong female character as being a horrible oversight.
Hey if you are going to count that 48% of gamers being women, I want Candy Crush to be counted as a Female lead character game.
look at the original study, page 4 www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf
interesting what "games" are most played. are by chance the female "gamers" over there?
bryant suiskens
I am okay with being wrong if I am, not sure if that is the point of this post. Reading doc at the moment while half playing a game. Looks interesting.
bryant suiskens
The document doesn't appear to diversify as to what gender is playing what types of games. Am I missing it?
bryant suiskens
i think that was his point
Spikes D No, but the point is, that due to the extremely wide definition of what a gamer is according to the study, along with the small percentage of the poll that holds the money makers, we cannot rely on the poll for claiming that females are actually part of the market, instead of users of free products
AYAME from Tenchu series. VERY underrated character from VERY underrated game. I don't remember a single time where her being a woman was an issue in the games. She is so great, respected and talented female character in a game and you don't usually get to see that.
"She is so great, respected and talented female character in a game and you don't usually get to see that."
Actually, that is usually seen. Just that, like with Ayame, many of such female characters are underrated.
Neko Vermillion Sorry, I didn't quite understand your comment. What do you mean?
LadyDynamitez
I will elaborate.
Usually there are female characters that are actually respectable and showcase positive traits. However, many of such female characters are underrated in the mainstream gaming community. Much like Tenchu's Ayame, the majority of such characters are underrated. Worse case scenario, such characters don't get any mention.
Many in the mainstream gaming community will bring up Chell, Samus, Faith, Ellie from The Last of Us, Elizabeth from Bioshock, and Lara, then say they spoke of the majority of positive female game characters. The fact of the matter is that they barely mentioned half of 1% of the awesome female game characters that exist.
That is what I'm getting at.
Though, I should think more of what you said. You did say such characters usually aren't seen. Although someone like me may usually see such characters, it's evident that the mainstream community usually don't see them.
Neko Vermillion Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I agree. I'm not that active in gaming anymore so most of the games I'm not familiar with at all. Ayame and Tenchu were what got me interested in games, too, haha.
LadyDynamitez
I'm actually starting to fall away form this mainstream crowd. I actually feel alienated because of these attitudes that a lot of modern gamers seem to possess. Well, at least there are still people like you around. Other times I talk like this, people accuse me of hating them. Then I get pulled into the toxicity. Too many modern gamers are toxic and it's making me decide against PS4 and XB1.
I was close to enjoying this video, till you botched up your narrative about our choices in how we gamers play our games. How dare you say to your own audience that they are "doing it wrong" in not choosing top lay as fem-Shep knowing that majority of your audience are gamers? Whether they do or not is not up to you to judge. To paraphrase your feminist view, "check your ego" when addressing your audience. We are given the option to play as fem-Shep. In other words we "can" play as fem-Shep, we don't "have" to. Just because you're a RUclips celeb does not give you the validation to condemn us for the choices me make in the game we play. Having just finished ME1 with fem-Shep route, I appreciate the effort and time taken craft this option, but not as moved as the experience I had with male-Shep. Irregardless it was my choice in preference of play. That consideration is to be given to every one. You could have phrased it neutrally by saying "give fem-Shep's route a try" and give a convincing reply.
Sincerly
Jhyarelle @#Not Your Shield @#Gamer Gate
Is Chell really a character? Don't characters generally have...you know...personalities? If you can replace the female character with a Roomba that can jump I'm not sure they're a good character.
Otherwise good choices.
Maybe Chell could be replaced with Jade from Beyond Good and Evil?
That's like asking if Link a character, or Kirby. Just because they have no spoken dialogue doesn't mean they aren't characters. Your own actions give Chell personality. You were smart enough to figure out that puzzle? Hey, Chell's a problem solver! (Also she technically does have a canonic personality, since in the official comic Lab Rat Chell's file called her "abnormally stubborn"and that she "never gives up.")
I was thinking it was more like asking if Doom Guy is a character but, yeah, if i would consider Link or Mario characters then I guess Chell can count too.
It just makes me a little sad that I know I could make a list of great male characters who all have speaking roles but when it comes to women you kind of have to stretch and include the silent protagonists.
James McGhie Doom Guy is a character too. Hell, Doom Guy's character is arguably more developed than Chell's, because you can see his facial expressions when certain events happen. It's obvious he takes some pleasure in killing demons, because he grins when he picks up a new weapon. Also, he's obviously experienced and desensitized, since he doesn't seem to flinch at any of the horrible things he sees. There's also a bit of backstory that tells us he got to his current position by being demoted after committing insubordination on Earth; he refused to fire on civilians during a riot. This tells us he greatly values human life.
I personally don't think silent protagonists have to be any weaker than speaking ones - actions speak louder than words, and all that. However, it very much annoys me when the character is made silent in a cheap effort to promote "immersion." Half-Life 2 did this terribly in my opinion, since Alyx comments on how quiet Gordon is several times, which I find annoying and contradictory to Valve's claimed motivation of maintaining immersion. I do think there are a lot of shooters that would benefit from less dialogue or no dialogue at all.
I think it's a fair question. Chell hardly does anything to characterize herself. She is behind the gun sure, but that's it, she's literally interchangeable with a robot her size, and arguably the robots have more personality. Same with Doom guy, he's been expounded on since, but as someone pointed out he flinches when shot, and bleeds. That's not really characterization though, that's just fidelity.
It's a problem with video game 'characters' they have to be malleable, avatars in some respects, but still there are some good ones out there, but they are probably notable enough to have their own list. But I think this is a good point in contrast to this list. Thanks!
People just think that it's sexism... No, it's not. Do you know why most protagonist are white, brown haired male? Because most game developers are mostly white, brown haired men. Simple, not some deep seated sexism in videogames.
Yes but the point of any creative process is to take you outside your own experience. Other artists have no problem making actual characters instead of author-inserts, so games should do the same.
Sexism doesn't necessarily mean males are shown more than females because males just happen to put more males in their games. Sexism is when that becomes the standard and females are given a lesser role.
Eratosthenes deCyrene You mistake what a videogame are then. They are are interactive experiences, you project yourself onto the character. The creators, to be able to make a good game, have to be able to project themselves into the game, hence a male character. It's not about men thinking "We don't want women in our games", it's merely that they want a male to be the protagonist since they are themselves the male. In every medium, if the person is male or female, their characters tend to have that gender as they connect with them more easily. Why is it that most thriller story books are about female main protagonists? Because a woman wrote the book. Does it make the book sexist? No. It's not up to men to give women a female protagonist, they do not owe you that neither should you rely on a man for that. Since a lot of feminists complain that female characters are always sex objects in games just because they have a nice looking rack. This is a loss - Loss situation for any developer. Don't have a female lead and you're going to get scorned for sexism, or you have a female lead and you lose a customer base which is reliable for action oriented games, teenage boys. If you add female side characters, even in games like Mass Effect where the women there are fleshed out, genuinely good characters, you get shit merely because they have a nice ass and pair of tits. For a game to not be sexist, the woman has to be not ugly but still good looking because otherwise you're being sexist, the character has to be a main protagonist, she has to be powerful, she has to have a good personality, she can't be sexually available, she has to be wearing modest clothing, she has to... Really? All these things just removes ANY character a protagonist can have. It's great to see characters like Bayonetta who are sexually imposing and powerful characters, sure she's got a silly design but it suits her personality of being a older, powerful, decisive WOMAN that isn't scared of what other people think or judge. Of course, it's overdone but have you seen the men from Gears of War? Their body features are over done, over-masculinized while female characters are over-feminized. Men has less pressure on them to be sexually appealing but at the same time have tremendous pressure to be manly and strong, that shows off in videogames all the time but no one mentions this sexism and stereotypic of male characters. Or why is it that most villains are male? That is also sexist if you think about it... People just need to calm down and look it from a perspective that doesn't have "I'm now looking for sexism!" goggles that a lot of people do, because that isn't productive. Instead, maybe give some thought on why a character like, for example, Tali in Mass Effect, is a bit insecure and fits into a little bit of a stereotype mold. There is a reason for it, she's basically a space gypsee who's being racially stereotyped for being a Quarian. That doesn't make her a racist character... Or Liara, why does she acts childish at times because she's a 100 years old? So that you can have your pretty blue girl fantasy? No... It's because her culture and how she is still treated like a child due to age and was never allowed to grow up properly. Why is it that they are blue coloured, the asari? Because some dude wanted to fuck a blue chick? No, because blue is generally seen as a soft, passive colour unlike red. A good colour and considering the Asari are pacifists and dislike war, very inclusionary as a species... And because they are all female, and these characteristics fit with females, no? Yes, they are indeed all hyper good looking and not to mention those tight fitting space suits to say the least but these things are minor in the larger scheme of things. Just because you make a character sexy doesn't make them poor characters or sexist.
I strongly disagree and it is clear neither of us will change our stance.
Eratosthenes deCyrene Great reply there. So, you think that a character, just because she is sexy, that she's a sexist character? Or are you disagreeing with my projection claim? I've provided a good, reasoned argument for my position and you give me that cop-out answer, very pointless indeed.
If xena was a game, even if it was bad, id still say shes my favorite
There was also a Xena game on N64.
Joshua Covey
That's not the point.
Why is it that whenever someone brings of Western female protagonists there is always that one guy that wants to bring up Superman?
I'm sorry, but I am getting sick of people always mentioning Superman when it comes to heroes in Western fiction. Especially since Superman has no real relevance to this talk.
It's no wonder people think Western society is all about the big unstoppable male hero.
I hate how they're sexualizing Samus. She deserves better. We all deserve better.
Had to stop it to rant a little bit. When the hooker says she would give the guy a free sample how is that belittling women or anything like that. She is a person in full control of the situation and her actions. She is making a advance at a guy, only because the way that he looks. Swap the sexes.. if a cute lady walked by and a guy said he would have sex with her for free. He wouldn't be seen as some one just looking to "Service others " he would be looked at as a creep . Why is it different in this situation ?
Double Standards run our society, that's why. What's okay for one person is not okay for another. One of many reasons why we will never have true equality, sadly.
In terms of great female characters I have to give Yuna from FFX and X-2 a mention. I recently played through the games again and the progression of the character from a loyal acolyte to a revolutionary to a pop star to a peace negotiator is one of the most dynamic character progressions I've ever seen. Yes, she gets a bit sexier in the sequel, but she's 19... I was doing much worse at 19.
Pretty much the whole cast of Skullgirls XD
Most of the females on this list are hardly even characters at all. While that's a criticism that could be hurled at a great many videogame protagonists, what with the "blank slate" writing that's used for many of them, as far as the "best" female characters in games go, we can do better than this.
I'd like to give a shout-out to Skullgirls for having a cast consisting of mostly women (only one male playable character at this time of writing), all with interesting backstories and personalities. Sure, there's T&A, but I don't see that as an intrinsic negative as it's possible for a character to be both attractive and interesting at the same time.
ill double up and add skullgirls to this list too. magnificent character design and a female for every character/arch type.
Yeah, I find it hard to be outraged at sexualized females in video games when the male characters look just as ridiculous. I mean, Marcus Fenix and his buddies look like their heads were carved out of a block of concrete. It's easy to make a character more appealing just by trying to make them attractive or even just outlandish looking.
Clementine from TWD!
#ImClementine
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is my favorite. From character design to world building relationship, she feels unique.
!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been trying to remember the name of that game for 10 goddamned years! THANK YOU I CAN FINALLY PLAY THE GAME THAT HAS BEEN HAUNTING MY NOSTALGIA FOR OVER A DECADE!!!!!
Aw, no mention of Jade from Beyond Good and Evil?
this dude is super PC
He works on a channel endorsed by PBS.
More of a Mac person personally.
PBS Game/Show Oh that was good my fine sir... but seriously it seems every episode is themed around correcting some cultural idea, not that I have a problem with those types of episodes... it's just maybe not that interesting all the time.
oh so sorry that this series isn't always catered to your particular interests and concerns. Moron.
The problem isn't that he's PC, it's his native outlook on everything. There is plenty of positive things to talk about in video games. He should talk about how Destiny takes the same fun game-play of halo, but gives it a much friendly approach. Instead of every one t-bagging each other, they wave hello, and dance together.
One argument in this debate that I never see much of that my sister brought up some time ago as we discussed this topic was the context argument.
Like expecting female characters on Assassin's Creed, a historical game, which tries to be realistic n' shit. Like... A female assassin on non modern time is VERY VERY unlikely, simply because of the whole context of how females were treated back then. Sure, it wasn't pretty, but hey, the game proposes on being historical to a certain degree, and that goes against that side. Like playing a Mafia or a Western game as a female is almost ludicrous, to be honest. Sure, it could be done, but it would certainly be silly.
But that only applies to certain games. Fantasy or modern themed or sci-fi games are all green for female protagonists xD
Just make every game from now on like Mass Effect and there you have it, all problems solved.
no mention of Cortana from halo, seriously? she is one of the strongest *main* female characters in the entirety of gaming IMO
Not playable, I think that's why no mention.
he did mention a few characters tho that are not playable, its weird cus halo would be a completely different game it wouldnt even be recognisable, story wise, if cortana did not exist.
She is overly sexualized.
Alfonso Navarro
Not really, until Halo 4 when her data thingies started to look like body paint.
Alfonso Navarro DUDE!!! You're such a fucking... God, I don't even know where to begin. Cortana and Chief are made to fit into stereotypical molds,
Cortana as the sexy sidekick who is there as a pretty face yet... All the stories of the Halo games revolve around her, she is the one who objects to violence, she is the one who solved the puzzles and problems and yet she is a machine, who isn't supposed to have any emotions but she still feels them.
Master chief is the one who looks like a machine, he is a overmasculized male, living weapon. He never shows his face and all he does is to kill. He's more human than Cortana, yet he is always emotionless in his lines and his actions, he followed orders and all he does in the story is to shoot things, yet in halo 4 we see how he becoming an emotionless wreck without Cortana when he is about to lose her, acts rashly and ignores orders.
He appears like a machine, but he is actually human...
She appears like a machine, but she is actually human.
Do you see? She's a deep, fleshed out character that the ENTIRE halo series revolves around! Literally, without her, there would've been no Halo Combat evolved, as demonstrated in Halo Reach. They are supposed to look like they fit into stereotypical molds on the surface, but when you examine their personalities you find them to be very different from that.
Clementine form The Walking Dead. Not only a great female character but also a great child character. Not falling into the traps of other child characters as useless, annoying, or just a smaller adult. At least in the first season anyway. In the second season she's still a kid but you can tell she's gotten more experienced by showing she's almost more resourceful, intelligent, and understanding than everyone in her group. Whatever she lacks in physical attributes she makes up for in wit and empathy.
Weird that you didn't even mention that Ellie in The Last of Us is playable for most of the Winter chapter of the game, in which she saves Joel's life rather than just tagging behind as she does earlier in the game. Plus, the Left Behind DLC adds over 2 hours of extra content playing exclusively as Ellie. Also, Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite is playable in episode 2 of the Buried at Sea DLC. I get your point, but I think you should at least mention that the designers did make these characters playable, if still to a much lesser extent than their male counterparts.
Still, those playable female characters are secondary to the main characters of the games. The protagonists and most important characters in those games are still male. I think that's what this video gets at
That's because he's nippicking, just to make his points sound better.
Bayonetta. When you play bayonetta and you see at the character design you would obviously think that she is an objectified woman. However, when you play the game you came to realize that you shouldn't judge her by her cover. Through the game you get to see a powerful woman (more powerful than any male character) that learns to deal with motherhood and struggles to fulfill the responsability that was given her to her by her mother and sisters(umbra nwitches).
It is also interesting that she is a witch while the enemys are either angels or religious figures. In many culturse female are often seen as evil beings that make glorious men sucumb to desire and sin. In bayonetta you see the exact opposite. The sinfull so called holy men that only wish to gain power are put in their place by the umbran witches that seek to keep the universe at balance.
Finally, when talking about agency bayo takes the grand prize. Bayonetta is the most powerfull character in any action game ever. In games like devil may cry or god of war you can do a lot of things to kill your enemies but in Bayonetta you can do just anything that has been done in any other action game and a lot of new things. Bayonetta is considered by the action game community as the ultimate action game because of how much agency do you have. This depth of gameplay place bayonetta as the most powerfull character in action games. Making Bayo practically stronger than a lot of huge badasses as Kratos, Dante, Vergil and so on.
Does Fem-shep really count? I mean her voice actress was excellent, but she is by definition identical to the regular Shepard, which includes zero defined character.
He also counted Ms. Pac-Man as a "Great Female Character" despite the fact that she and Pac-Man share about as much personality and in-depth character development in their games as a cheese wedge.
You have a point. The only female character in this list who was both a protagonist of a story was Laura Croft. *LAURA CROFT* D: I hope that PBS Game/Show just missed all the good female characters in the list and that there are some great female protagonists out there.
I can see your point, but disagree. Other games were you create the protagonist don't allow you to give them any personality. Shepard needs to be given a personality by the player, but it still gets one. Femsheps voice actor especially did an excellent job making her more then a month piece for the player.
Jade from BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL. Lead protagonist, highly overlooked game.
No, it still counts. The best type of female character is an individual first who is coincidentally a woman.
Sex and gender isn't the sum of who you are, it's a single contributing attribute of identity. Shepard does have personality quirks and phrases that s/he's even mocked for in game plus a general backstory of being a competent N7 alliance officer. The details can slightly change depending on the story but there is still a general identity in there.
I think Clementine from The Walking Dead Game should get an honorable mention for arguably becoming one of the toughest characters in the entire game while also being one of the youngest. Not to mention, she is a stunning example of how video games can truly be an emotionally immersive experience.
A lot of people complain about women being misrepresented in games and the good news is that this issue is coming smaller every day. Think about it, three Game of the Year nominated games of the past years (Walking Dead, Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite) all had strong female characters that took up most of the story. More games are getting female protagonists (Remember Me, Mirrors Edge and it's upcoming sequel) and even characters who used to be famous for this stuff are getting re-hauled (Lara Croft, Peach being playable and not a Damsel in 3D World.) So the industry is definitely improving in this regard.
Also, my favorite female character in games is Samus. Its strange, I rarely play her games, but I really grew attached to her character.
But that is also the problem, those nominations are partially based on that fact. (not to mention that Anita Sarkesian won a award for scientifically baseless, except if you can call biased feminist research valid, video's to the point you could call it propaganda not to mention her blatant misrepresentation of some games). To say it simply, better representation is a good thing, but not forced representation like it is now.
relo999 While those characters probably did factor into there nominations, I doubt they were the only reason. Those games had so much going for them, those characters were just icing on the cake.
Also what do you mean by forced representation?
It could be icing on the cake, but seeing how the "game design" journalism (you can hardly call it that) uplifted that fact and made it the big thing I doubt that.
Also a simple example would be of forced representation is the whole controversy of ubisoft right now. Seeing as the assassins creed series is based on historical fact adding a playable female character would also mean redoing the whole game (or make special sections to play a women) as women were looked at different than men back in the day. And just replacing the man with a women would break it's design premise. Yet people still make a big point of it, and forgetting that would be needed. And a good chunk of modern games just shoehorn it in to be "modern" and often failing. Or people praising a game with a women were it functions as a "character is you" type character which could as easily have a male model, like Chell in Portal.
(and again the Anita praise, yet she making baseless claims)
relo999 You make really good points, but they already had female characters in past Assassins Creed games, so I guess people got mad when they didn't do it again. If this was one of the first games in the series, it wouldn't have caused so much controversy.
And just curious, when did shoehorning a female character into a story ever actually backfire?
relo999 I don't agree with every single last thing that Anita Sarkesian has said. But she made some big points that are almost obvious that no one really wants to talk about. In fact, some of the points that she brought up that are actually true would get you ignored in some groups if you point it out. So in a way she deserved that award for saying unpopular things, most of which are true as the sky is blue.
You forgot Tetra when talking about the Zelda side of this episode, Tetra was a much more interesting form of Zelda, and unfortunately her personality changes when the truth of her identity is revealed, but at least she was awesome for a while.
It's kinda sad and telling that you only want the 2013 Lara and not the original Lara. Go back and play those games and follow the stories. Note that she's very strong and does everything on her own without the help of anyone. She doesn't need the player to "protect" her as the developers at Crystal Dynamics said they wanted you to do with the modern Lara. The modern Lara is a much weaker "character" than the old Lara.
I think in many ways this illustrates part of the problem with how many like Anita and in this case yourself view female characters. A female character can't be a great female character if they're in revealing clothing. That apparently immediately excludes them. Meanwhile a character like Faith from Mirror's Edge, who barely has any personality, is a strong female character simply because she isn't dressed in revealing clothing. That's literally the only reason people praise her. She wears pants instead of shorts. And that apparently makes her a great female character. Meanwhile a character like Bayonetta, who's obviously intended to be sexy, is excluded despite actually being a strong female character. And i'm talking strong in personality. Something that Faith doesn't have.
I OH so very much agree with you. Sexualization in games and other media is a problem, but I annoys me to no end when people discredit fantastic female characters just because they are hot.
I have to disagree on the Faith part. She isn't a strong character just because she wears pants.
She is an idealist and fights a repressive system. She can defend herself against trained security forces. She risks her own life for her sister. She is fit and good free runner/ parkour person. Also she acts on her own agenda and Merc does not dictate her actions, but serves as a guide.
Those are some strong feats in my book. Yes, she is not some super fleshed out character with a 300 page description of her personality and backstory, but Mirrors Edge was a short, gameplay focused game.
Further the problem is not sexy female characters, but over sexualized characters that wear ridiculous stuff like armor bikinis or high heels on the "battlefield". (In Bayonetta the high heels fit the overall style, but I haven't played the game so i can't really make a statement on her personality.)
Oh and BTW, I think Faith is still pretty hot despite the lack of shorts. ;)
BSEMensch The issue isn't whether Faith is attractive, it's that they put her in non-revealing clothing which instantly makes people think "Hey, that's a great female character". She's automatically deemed that based purely on her design. Meanwhile a developer can reveal a female character that's scantily clad and those same individuals that praised faith with dismiss that character, purely on how she's dressed. It doesn't matter whether or not she's a strong character because she's dressed in a revealing manner. And that's what annoys me. There are plenty of real women in this world that where revealing clothing and are strong women. But that apparently can't be the case in gaming. You can only be a strong female character if you're dressed a particular way.
That's why I brought up original Lara vs. Lara 2013. If you just read about the characters in both games I think most people would come to the conclusion that the original Lara was the stronger character. But she's dismissed simply because she had large breasts and wore shorts. Again going back to the point of how visuals are far more important to what's viewed as a strong female character to many people compared to whether or not they are actually a strong character.
I guess my main point is that I think it makes far more sense to judge a great character on their character and personality on their design. That's not to say that design shouldn't play a role. But it certainly shouldn't play such a role that characters are completely dismissed based purely on their design and others are put on the a pedestal for the same reason.
Well said. Modern Lara (not Lora btw, dear Mr Warren) has nothing on old Lara.
82Jaster Faith simply wears practical clothing that is all, nobody claims she's a strong character based on her clothing. I think you are generalizing a bit too much on what the general view on strong female chars is.
In this case he thinks Lara Croft from the old games is over-sexualized.
I haven't played much Tomb Raider, but I also have the impression that old Lara Croft is more like a pin-up. I don't really know much about her personality and backstory. I don't think she is over-sexualized, though.
Clementine from the Walking Dead anyone?
I feel that she is a wonderful female character and that her age in the game adds to the characteristics she represents like bravery,and strength.
In my opinion she is one of my favorite female characters.
I think the biggest hurdle still is that while consumer public is diverse in terms of gender. The industry is not. I think the less studios look like a boys club, the less their products will.
Cale Smith Indeed, they're not. Many designers, programmers and artists are in fact female, who adapted superbly to a coincidentally masculine-type behavioral, social culture. That doesn't change the fact that it is a masculine-type behavioral, social culture. I don't mean to say that the industry is sexist, it's ways are simply an artifact from a time where it =actually= was male predominantly, a decade or two ago.
That'll settle down, eventually, but the sooner people stop perpetuating truths outdated by several decades, the sooner we actually move forward.
Cale Smith A sexist and toxic work atmosphere and treatment from collegues as well as bosses who will pick male candidates over female ones for advancement opportunities because they're chauvinistic living fossils is the very definition of 'preventing women from going out into the field". It's true that determined women can still get through, but you shouldn't expect women to subject themselves to that just to be treated decently, you should be trying to help them by changing the hostile environment.
You really should have mentioned Jade from "Beyond Good and Evil". She a good natured, capable, and funny character who is fun to play because she a staff fighter, stealthy, and a photographer. Jade also isn't sexualized and is a playable character, but I disagree that a non playable female character isn't strong, so what Clementine from Walking Dead doesn't become a strong character until she became playable in season 2?
No, just no for your third point. You are basically saying that NPC's can't be well written, good, even inspiring characters, and that's just wrong on so many levels. That's like saying every character in a movie or book other than the lead is a bad character. Or that in a band, only the singer is the important one. This kind of attitude undermines the idea of empathy, cooperation and this is how jealousy thrives.
Also, complaining about Metroid's ending pictures and sexy outfits after Samus removes her armor... you probably don't even mean it, but this assumption that "showing skin = bad and objectifying" sends an equally bad message that, in order to be taken seriously, women need to downplay their beauty, and keep to a dress code. Even if it's at the end of a tiring, dangerous mission all spent in a metal armor and all she'd want is to let loose.
You've completely missed the point. For this list he only included playable characters because above all else video games are an interactive medium. What separates a well written side character in a movie vs a well written side character in a game? Not much as you have equal control of there actions.
Another reason I'd limit this list to playable characters would be characters like Elizabeth and Ellie. Arguably they are the main characters of the game, but they are mainly experienced though a male view point. Why?
For your 2nd point. I'd agree. I don't believe Samus had much of a character back then so whos to say how she'd prefer to dress.
Ok you missed the point, jsut watch his episode about side characters! HE NEVER said NPC can't be good characters, but that to make a real impact on the player it is neccessary to have the option to PLAY as a female!
89taklung
Wrong. Characters like Midna, Saria, Elika, Paola (AC2), Maya (Phoenix Wright) and many others made just as much of an impact on me than a lot of the playable heroes.
you can't just say "wrong" opinions aren't right or wrong!
I do thing of course that NPCs arealso important but you IDENTIFIE as the character you play not the ones you interact with, thus they usually have the deeper inmpact on you.
naturally there can be exceptions, for for example in Walking dead 1 Clementine left more of an impression than Lee did but that's an exception
A recent example is Red from Transistor who I absolutely love.
Rosalina?
Rosalina is the bomb.
No Chun-Li huh. Someone does not play fighters I bet.
Seen a lot of people say they can't believe there's so many female gamer. I don't know if I believe the exact numbers, but that's because I have a problem with surveys that would mark this kind of thing in general, but there are lots I'm sure. But some people want to say 'they're not really gamers', why? Did they not pass the test to be a gamer? Where's the test? IDK if I can pass!
I recon it's because just like there's a difference between an athlete and someone who plays sports from time to time, there's a difference between a gamer and someone who plays games from time to time. The lack of detail provided by said study is what people are questioning, not really the players themselves. If a study can't be trusted, then we shouldn't be making decisions off of it because if the study is indeed biased, (moms who play solitaire are included or something like that) then we are essentially trying to change a formula based off of something that isn't true, which has a good chance of destroying a genre of entertainment.
Random Person "People who play candy crush or solitaire don't count" A mix of your point with others I've read. What does it matter? They're playing a game. If you wanna argue athlete you'd have to be competing in evo or be a relevant member of a speed run community to be on that level with video games, that's your test. I failed. I play video games nearly every day and I don't pass your test.
I think the qualifier for 'gamer' is probably the amount of time one spends playing games, on average. In her book "Reality is Broken," Jane McGonigal gives the value as being around 20 hours per week. So I'd say the study that PBS Game Show is referring to is probably somewhere around that.
I don't play video games that often but I consider myself a gamer. I play a variety of games FPS, RPG, and Online games. Do I play often no, why? I don't have the money to invest in systems. Does that make me less of a gamer no! I just play when I go to my boyfriend's house, or we go to a friend's place.
Gaming is something that only certain people can afford. I used to game like hell when I was a child I had all the latest systems. My dad and I would play, but situations change and I my most recent system is a 3Ds, before that it was a Game Cube.
Judging someone on how well you play, or how much money you put in is silly. A runner is a runner, if they are just running around the block or they are running in the Olympics. I also don't think you can judge someone on how much they play, there are a million reasons why women might LOVE games but not reach 20 per week.
I don't play online much anymore because of sexual harassment. I don't play N64 that much anymore because I beat all the games, I can't afford new ones and I don't live with my boyfriend. Also maybe girls don't log as many hours because even if they are interested in getting into gaming men making it really really hard.
We have to prove we are REAL gamers. Apparently we need to log 20 hours a week and play like Pro League players. Seriously?: Would you demand to know how many hours a dude at the bar played in the last week if he said he was a gamer? Doubtful. Unless your one of those elitist assholes who walks around with the neon flashing light above his head that says NO FUN ALLOWED NOOB.
Random Person "which has a good chance of destroying a genre of entertainment"
I seriously doubt that the gaming industry is in danger of being destroyed by polls that say more females game or the introduction of more games with strong female protagonists. I am a female gamer. Apart from reading, gaming is my primary source of entertainment. I have been gaming for most of my 36 years of life. I don't want to be catered too just for the sake of it, but it is nice to represented. If given an option, I will play a female character. I highly doubt that including more of said options will take away a male gamers experience though. Games will always be made for males. That is our reality. I just would like to see females considered as well.
Seriously guys. Who cares. No female characters in AC Unity. Boo hoo. This isn't the first time this happened. Who cares. Tomb Raider doesn't have male characters to play as. Oh no....the horror. A lot of games don't have black playable characters. I don't cry because I care about the quality of the game, not representation. I don't care. Let's grow up. The game has lots of cool things in it that deserve attention but OH HOLY CRAP NO FEMALE CHARACTERS WHAT AN OUTRAGE! WHAT AN INJUSTICE no...it's just a game. Please just let it go. Please.
Actually, in Tomb Raider's multiplayer you can play as a male, but that's not the point. No one is angry about AC Unity just because you can't play as a girl, a lot of games at E3 were male only too, the problem was that their excuse for leaving it out was total BS.
Samus
Because I love the metroid games (minus other m) it really doesn't have much to do with her character as she doesn't have much character development (minus the God awful other m)
On behalf of all guys who care about females of the world, I thank you! I think the gaming world needs to accommodate for female players way more, so they too can have as much fun as the guys can. They're starting to, though, so I hope they push onwards.
Maybe one day women won't look at video games as "immature", and it will be held up to the standard of every other form of media.
Stop using that 48% of gamer girls argument.
Those INCLUDE bunch of facebook games and it was really pretty general/vague definition of gamer.
"Gamer = someone who plays video games". How the fuck is that vague?
*****
Gamers look at themselves as playing PC/consoles games, not someone casually playing Candy Crush on their iPhone or Facebook. Often, to the gamer community including casual games (like farmville) seems fraudulent.
***** It is accurate, but the problem with using it is that these videos and arguments always center around major console releases like GTA, Assassin's Creed, Mario etc. They don't center around mobile and Facebook games. In fact those games are rarely ever brought up by those making the videos, blogs, or articles on the subject. And this video illustrates that point quite well.
So it's a heavily misleading statistic because it's rarely used in the proper context.
Kingj
Honestly i think including console gamers is fraudulent as well. If you play on a console you're nothing but a casual gamer. So PC being the only platform for real gamers that actually puts women ahead of men as 70% MMO players are women (Social gaming is big draw for women)
TheOrthodoxWaffle
Many of the games that are PC are also on console, so I don't see the need to exclude them. You are, however, entitled to your opinion. Do you have any sources on the gender distribution of different video game genres? Maybe you can open my eyes a little bit.
Blaze the Cat from the Sanic games.
Has speed like Sanic, But,FIRE!
Jokes, aside. She is a more restrained character without coming off as a ice queen. She is one of the few characters in sanic 06 to actually be fun to play.
She goes out of her way to save someone who is not a love interested. Did not have a love interested til 06. (which is debatable) But, once again is still a better character then Sliver.
Pretty much one of those characters who really deserves more attention. But, gets overshadow for really no good reason.
Let us just If they where gonna stick another sanic character in a smash bros. They should look to her before one of the other 2 sonic clones in there
Carzeyday Blaze actually has a large fanbase, considering how easy it was to find a ton of clean fanart of her. She does have a lot of positive attention, though it's only from the fans.
Fuck yeah, Blaze the Cat! She needs her own game. She's a great character. :)
Half of gamers are not girls. Believe that
Half of gamers are not girls, because half of gamers are men. It's the other half that's female. That's the joke.
(Also, it might be because you just don't know that many women on such a deep level, Cale? Dunno about you, but not all gamers are prolific about their gamerhood, so your female friends might just not have told you. Or of course, you just don't attract that kind of woman to be your friend. *shrug*)
Alderick van Klaveren It boggles the mind when people try to tell me that the bulk of female gamers in that statistic are just mobile players. My mother introduced me to gaming because she was obsessed with Space Invaders. I've known tons and tons of women over the years that love to game. The woman I'm marrying soon has been plastered to the Zelda series lately, and I just got her started on Paper Mario yesterday. She had her own gaming systems when she was younger as well, though she doesn't really consider herself a gamer. Women game. Like real games, not just the mobile trash. I'm tired of misinformed people with a limited purview telling me that the statistic is false, or skewed when my own experience and research has shown me otherwise.
Butterworthy I know, right? It's kind of sad, it just tells us that the people who still believe these things are just closeted people who don't go out to find the female demographic for themselves.
Alderick van Klaveren Want to find females? Play an MMO. You can't throw a stick without hitting one.
Butterworthy Indeed. MMO roleplaying communities are full of them in my experience.
It seems kind of ironic that the macho 'hardcore gamers' that this comment section seems to be dominated by, don't seem to have any actual hardcore experiences. Funny, that.
My personal favorites:
Samus Aran from Metroid,
Bayonetta,
Lucina from Fire Emblem,
Femshep from Mass effect
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil.
FemHawke from DAII
Ellie from the Last of Us. I don't care if you say 'she's not a strong character because she was only tagging along with Joel'. She is intelligent, confident, and, yes, independent! (hear me out). She had to take care of Joel for nearly 3 months in the story, killing and hunting for food, water and survival. And not only did they have you play as her in what is questionably the MOST DIFFICULT part of the game, she even got a DLC all about her! So, yeah. That's my bitcoin.
So... I took a look at that article in the Huffington Post. Turns out the writer based his statistic on the chart from "vg chartz." There are two problems with that. Firstly, some games, who have a male as a protagonist, are counted twice in the top 25 because they were multiplatform (Battlefield 4, assassin's creed IV, COD, GTAV...). The second problem is that a lot of these games have no definite protagonist, and let you choose your own gender. (Pokemon X/Y, animal crossing, monster hunter, minecraft with the skins, Just Dance, Mario Kart...) I don't think that can be counted as part of the problem.
Sure, there are still more male leads than female leads. But if we're going to blow things out of proportion and base our theories on wrong numbers, we're never going to amount to any change at all. Don't make it look worse than it is.
*EDIT* Grammar. How does it work ?
-Final Fantasy is one of the best franchises at having not only great characters but strong female characters including FF6 Terra the protagonist in arguably the greatest RPG of all time, FF7 Aerith and Tifa, FF8 Rinoa and even FF X Yuna
-Fighting games have a plethora of kick ass females, albeit alot of them scantily clad (eye roll) but its also just as true that the men can be and are portrayed just as naked with impossibly muscled body proportions (Urien, Sagat, Zangief) but to name a few of my fave female characters;
Chun Li, Makoto, Ibuki and Sakura of Street Fighter
Jill Valentine from RE is one of my fave RE peeps but the last character I will mention that I know people will strongly disagree with is...
Bayonetta.
Sure she is over sexualised but it never came across as eye rolley or pandering, as the game itself is ridiculously over the top, but more importantly, its believable to her character as she herself is not only unbelievably strong and kick ass, she IS hyper sexual and very sexually aggressive by nature. Its through her own volition that she expresses herself as such, a refreshingly believable and relatable take on what would otherwise be just lame pandering.
In my opinion one of the best female characters in games (at least recently) is Clementine in Telltale's Walking Dead. It's REALLY hard to talk about this character without spoilers, but arguably the entire game is about her, even in the first season. Also if you haven't played The Walking Dead yet, what are doing? Go play it right now
Telltale's Walking Dead is all about how Clementine learns and adapts to growing up in a zombie apocalypse from a very young age. Learning the skills necessary from a mentor (the player in season 1) to doing her best to prove herself in the worst of situations (the player in season 2 thus far)
At the writing of this comment, season 2 hasn't ended yet, so it's difficult to tell what direction things will go in for Clem, but the main point I'm trying to make is that she feels truly HUMAN. The player knows her flaws, her strengths, her weaknesses. And we use that knowledge to make informed decisions about the problems we face. That's something that few characters have allowed me to do, with the odd exception like Commander Shepard (also, I agree, female Shep is definitely the way to go in Mass Effect)
Not mention Clementine is a terrific example of both a female character and a great child character, another trait that's very difficult to see executed well
I honestly would have to disagree with you on some of your points.
Ellie doesn't count because she get's escorted by Joel? No, simply no. She was a strong character. Whenever Joel was having a problem with a bunch of guys Ellie would a lot of times save his ass. By either throwing a brick or bottle at a guy, stabbing one in the back, or shot and kill some of them. Not to mention that she Saved Joel's ass more than once. Did you forget that you play as her in part's of the game. Trust me it is not just some big escort mission, not to mention that she's doing all of this at fourteen!
FemShep's voice acting is better and your playing it wrong otherwise? Again no. Mass Effect is an RPG that allows you to pick your gender, your backstory, your class, your romance/or no romance, and whether your playing as paragon, renegade, or a little bit of both. No One Is Playing The Game Wrong At All. You can play the game however the fuck you want, So telling people which is better is kind of stupid in my opinion when the game is based on choice. My main Shep is Female but doesn't mean she's automatically better because of that. I also have multiple of Shepard's both male and female, and I enjoy both very much (I wouldn't play as both otherwise). Mark and Jennifer both do amazing jobs. If someone wants to play the game with multiple of Shepard's or only one is just fine. Again because of choice's.
It's wrong for a female character to be sexualise? I honestly don't see the problem with it. Sure that volleyball game only has big breasted women and not much/ probably no character development. But is honestly anyone going to buy that game for character development? Myself that game doesn't appeal to me so I wouldn't get it, but some other people would be interested in it. And to me that's fine, to each their own. I don't believe that it would make someone be sexist to women, it's just another thing for someone to get off on probably lol. Also I know that armour on skyrim is a mod and still so what? Why do people get mad at that in video games, but are fine when women dress up sexy in cosplay? Wouldn't you get mad at that and if you do wouldn't you just be saying that their not allowed to dress up whatever way they want? Shouldn't it go both ways then? If you find it sexist for female characters to be sexy, than aren't those female cos-player's sexist to?
And it must be hard for female gamers? Well for myself as one nope. But that doesn't mean that it's hard for others and I understand that. Just for myself no. I honestly don't care what gender the character I'm playing as is. I just want good gameplay, and weather I'm playing a game that is story based, than good story and good character development. I'm not picky.
I understand that some of this is just your opinion, so feel free to have it. Thank you for letting me share mine in the RUclips comments. :)
I have been playing games since my girls were young and I am now a grandmother. So keep in mind that I have a lot of experience with games. Men can think what they want, but us ladies know there are a lot of us. I love Zelda, Final Fantasy, Half-Life, Mario, Sonic and much, much more. My favorite games are the Portals. I have replayed Dishonored, Borderlands 1 & 2, Bioshock and more games than I remember. And yes, I used to raid in WoW. So please trust me when I dispute the "Myth of the Female Gamer." We exist. And do get frustrated by the lack of realistic representation in our games. Oh, and I especially hate the "escort the girl" stuff. Seriously.
I would like to point out there are some nice indie games like Lilly Looking Through that make the protagonist female without the over sexualized stereotypes. It isn't great now, but I think it will get better.
Also, I liked Dagger from FFIV. She was smart, earnest and not just a "prize" for the main character. She had her own agenda.
It could be said, though, that making the female in a multi-character game the default healer is pretty lame.
"Only 4% of game protagonists were woman"
How about Movies? Books? TV-Shows? I bet it isnt 50-50 either.
Should you wonder why in general, or tug Ubisoft jeans and ask them for one more female character?
I agree that female representation in games is currently poor however using the 48% manipulated statistic is not helping the case. my mum is part of the 48% and from her perspective (Tetris, Bejeweled, bubble witch, etc) games don't have characters, male or female.
It is irresponsible to quote "48% of gamers are women." as "48% of narrative gamers are women."
It is equivalent to me saying 60% of adults can drive means 60% of adults drive to work.
All you are going to do is lose respect for your argument.
I want to give a shout-out to Kazooie in the Banjo-Kazooie franchise. She's crass and hot-headed, but at the same time almost all of the attack moves center around her, so Banjo would be nothing without her. Plus dragon Kazooie in Banjo-Tooie. Dragon-Bird hybrid. We've come so far in gaming.
>include a female as an assassin
>feminists complain that there's violence against women
>don't include a female as an assassin
>feminists complain that there's no female representation.
You can't win with those people.
1. Fiction often gives idealized representations of character archetypes. How many protagonists, male or female, can you name that are NOT idealized in some manner?
2. "not at the mercy of men" so never have them face any kind of peril? Bringing that Sarkeesian clip of that prostitute being in charge of her own work? Is she not showing agency within the space of her profession in that specific interaction?
3. It's up to the devs to decide who's a player character. It doesn't really matter if it's a man or a woman. To complain about it either way is a 1st world problem. You're not entitled to choose your character in the story unless it's an RPG.
>stating that women as secondary characters is problematic
>implying men as secondary characters is par for the course
Pedestalizing women. So condescending.
"[...] way before anybody realized this was a problem" >implying this has not been addressed in over three thousand years and Sarkeesian was the first to tackle the issue.
Personally, I'm a great lover of the Final Fantasy ladies, though it's true you don't play as them a lot of the time, but I'd argue the games are usually more about the ladies than the guys.
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is a good choice too.
One thing, though. I found it weird that you included Sheik/Zelda on here, when you don't play as her in the game, but didn't include Ellie from The Last of Us...even though you DO play as her in the game.
I'm sorry but you have gone to mainstream..... How about Aya Brea from "Parasite Eve"? Virginia Maxwell from "Wild Arms 3", hell I'll be back with other characters.
Most of my personal favorites wouldn't count if I used the criteria stated here, and honestly, further limitation to female characters won't leave you with a lot.
Wind Waker's Medli and Tetra were some of the most fun characters in that game and had a more active role than for example other incarnations of Zelda or Princess Ruto, who would be Medli's aquivalent.
Bioshock Infinite's Elizabeth and Clementine from The Walking Dead were dependent on the player character to some degree, but didn't just feel like some escort mission. Considering Clementine is the protagonist of TWD S2, she would deserve a place on this list.
I also really liked the cast of Skullgirls. Very sexualized, true, but they still felt like unique characters with solid arcs for a fighting game.
Also Red from Transistor. Not a lot is revealed, since she is a silent protagonist, but that wasn't necessary. Everything the developers needed to say about her, they said in one of the last scenes.
YAY Femshep! She's my favorite simply because I got to play a seriously epic scifi serious as a badass female. (And Jennifer Hale's voice acting was great to me compared to we'll bang okay's voice acting, even though Mark Meer is still cool).
I'm really curious about the 2013 Tomb Raider too. It'd be pretty great to get a better balance of female characters in games, and to have more female playable characters in the bigger games in general -- even if they're optional like Femshep, at least the OPTION would be there. Or just have more video games that revolve around how women struggle with the stuff going on in their game situation instead of how a dude does, if that makes sense. So women can relate to a character for once instead of just going this dude is a cool badass but...
Or just have the gender not be an issue. People are people. A person trying to stab you is still a person trying to stab you so your gender shouldn't be as big of a factor there in general. You're going to defend yourself, and if you're a woman you're not going to be wearing a bikini and have a gorgeous rack in that process. Or at least not 100% of the time. There are more female types than the hot babe.
So yeah basically more balance is needed!
The Boss from MGS3 is my favorite female character because everything about her design shouts 'power'. Her skills, the respect she generates from her command, and her importance narratively as a dominating presence towards modern American history all just works. Plus she's a pretty fun boss fight.
Jamin, the fact that Morrigan from Dragon Age is not on the list tells me that you need to play Dragon Age Origins. Stop whatever you are doing, get on steam, and start downloading it.
She is hands down one of the greatest characters in video games. Not just female characters, but of all. She is intelligent, independent, cynical, reasonable, and well thought out. Her character design is so complex, text cannot capture her. She speaks to you like a real person.
She is not the main protagonist, but is a playable character. She calls into question whatever preconceived notions of morality, spirituality, good, evil, and beauty you may have had prior to playing the game.
True, she does have her faults. She is overtly cynical of any otherwise good intentions. She is a bit sexual, as she is a potential love interest of the game. However, her "romance" storyline is so beautifully complicated, it is like being in a real romance.
More importantly, she will make you question your morality. She struck me as especially intriguing, as my view of morality was more in line with Alistar, another hero of the game. At least, it was when I started playing. Interacting with Morrigan as a character opened my eyes to a new angle of the world, not only in game, but in life. Not saying I see the world through her eyes exclusively, no... that'd be almost socialpathic, but rather, I have a new lens to look at the world through.
Jamin, if you have not played Dragon Age: Origins, I would highly recommend it. The combat system is a bit cluncky, but the story, and character dynamics are unmatched. Especially Morrigan. I promise you, you will love it.
First of all, I'd like to thank your wonderful job in reseaching this type of topics about gaming. I, as an adult female gamer who aims to become a developer someday, am specially thankful for this one in particular. The situation has advanced significantly in the last few years, and I believe it might be due to an increase in the interest of mature, well-written story-telling in videogames. There has been an effort to portray a wider diversity of characters, more tridimensional and more logically and emotionally realistic. The great trio made by Ellie, Clem and Elizabeth is proof of that. Sure they were originally NPCs who a male player had to rescue, but I wouldn't count that as the infamous "damsel in distress" cliché, just because both the npcs and the main character were well written and emotionally realistic. The Ellie part on the Last of Us, the Left Behind DLC, The Walking Dead S2 and the Burial at Sea DLC depict awesome people who are capable, extremely inteligent and badass enough to take a lot of shit. Sure they had to be taken care of by male characters at the beginning, but I saw the three of their situations more like an experienced master training an apprentice than a man saving a damsel in distress. Also, Joel, Booker and Lee are awesome characters and I grew extremely attached to them.
I try not to think in terms of male, female, gay, asian, christian... whatever, we're all just people. Many are assholes and/or respond to stereotypes, sure. But there are many others who don't.
Favorite female character has to be Gaige from Borderlands 2. she's funny, exciting, a little crazy, cute and very powerful. Arguably, THE most powerful character in the entire game. or least she can be, she needs some time to build Anarchy Stacks (charge up for all you non-borderlands 2 fans out there). I get that she was supposed to be the "girlfriend" class because she has skills that mainly work as a support character so girls in couples could play as her and all she has to worry about is taking down enemy shields so the boyfriend can go for the kill but again, she can be , as she likes to put it, stupid powerful when "charged up" or when using her main skill, summoning a giant robot to beat the living daylights outta enemies. she can be supporting or offensive, hilarious and all around a badass and fun to play.
This reminds me of a really great article by Laura Hudson called "The videogame that finally made me feel like a human being". In the article she describes how she felt playing The Last of Us DLC Left Behind. The entire article is great, but a quote I love the most is... "I found that videogames allowed me to become a person who did things but usually only if I was willing to shed my gender. It’s the price of admission, the coin you pay to cross the river."
Something about gaming I had never noticed before is that most of the games I really pour a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into are games were I can choose be a female character. I pointed this fact out to my brother and when asked why I responded with, "Because I can be a woman in a mostly gender neutral story." My brother was confused and surprised by my statement. I pointed out to him, "Well, when was the last time you had to play a female character because she was the protagonist of a game you were interested in?" We didn't come up with very many, but when the question was reversed I ended up listing almost our entire video game collection... I realized that Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Dark Souls really made me feel awesome because I was able to see myself in the game without the game reacting negatively towards my character's gender.
I really have high hopes that the video game industry will become more inclusive not just because it's good for unique storytelling, but also players can connect to video games in a way they couldn't before. Don't get me wrong, I love an uncountable amount of video games without female main characters, but it doesn't have the same level of emotional investment. When a game can make me feel like I am the badass instead of just controlling a badass person it really makes a world of difference.
Isn't Ellie following Joel mostly due to age? She is with him for protection, because she'd get killed out there on her own. A 14 year old girl traveling across the country all by herself? Not gonna happen. Joel knows how to get there, and is more experienced than her.
I'm arguing that Ellie is a strong character. she obviously isn't at the mercy of men, especially since you can play as her, which is just a small and weaker Joel.
*spoilers*
She killed David, and many of his men, while Joel was incapacitated. That's what makes her strong.
well a lot of games may not have a fixed female character a lot of RPG's (Role Playing Games) That have in dept characters customization like the elder scrolls or fallout or other RPG MMO's such as WoW, Runescape and games of that nature. Have the option to play as a female if one so desires so, there are a lot of different games that Have female characters but they don't have a different story line from the male characters maybe if there were more with RPG's/MMO's that had a different story line depending on which sex you chose Male or Female would be nice.
Hi, bisexual woman here to tell you that it's not just men who like to look at sexy ladies! But attraction aside, dismissing characters like Bayonetta, the original Lara Croft and Samus in her zero suit just because you don't like their outfit.... that's incredibly shallow of you. These characters are popular because of their personalities; the fact that they're lovely ladies is a nice bonus, but that's all it is. The main criticism of Other M was that they portrayed Samus as weak, when she had been a badass prior to that game. If that doesn't tell you why people like Samus, I don't know what will.
I respond to all of this video with The Boss from MGS 3, I know you can't play as her but she deserved a mention at least! Shes both a motherly figure and a total badass who totally dominates every male AND female character in the game by being strong on every level (emotionally and physically as well). She is; The Boss.
My favorite female characters were from the Hot Shots Golf series. The female characters in that game were, well, better than the male ones stats-wise, which made a big push or people to play as them. Also, they each had a lot of character to them (one was an action movie star, another is a daughter of a rich family who is known for her power in her shot, one is a professional Latin dancer.. They aren't just cardboard cutouts nor promote unhealthy stereotypes of women.
P.S. The "sexy lamp test" is very applicable to video games. Quite a lot of games fail this test and it is extremely sickening.
Jade, Beyond Good and Evil
I'm glad you mentioned Chrono Trigger! It's one of my favorite games, but I didn't realize how strong the playable female characters are! Marle is an independent thinking princess, Lucca is one of the world's greatest inventors, and Ayla leads her tribe and is perhaps the physically toughest playable character.
I don't necessarily think a lot of these characters are good characters. Take Chell, for example. I'm not saying valve did wrong by making her a blank slate, but that's what she is, basically. She's a canvas for players to project themselves onto. But calling her one of the greatest female characters ever is a major stretch. With Ms. Pac Man you only talked about the actual game design, with Shepard you only talked about the voice acting, and with Peach you again talked only about game mechanics. Just because a game with a female protagonist is fun doesn't necessarily mean that they were good characters. I was also a little disappointed to not see what I consider the greatest female character of all time, Clementine from the walking dead (this one's not a criticism just my opinion)
Yay Lara Croft. Can't wait for Mirrors edge 2. I alwayss play as female characters when I have the choice (dunno why, previous episode). And I played Fem Shep.
The list in the video is pretty close to my own. FemShep is awesome, and I say this as a male gamer. Hell, for me, FemShep is just Shepard. Sheploo is the genderswapped copy. I know most Bioware games let you play as awesome female characters, but Shepard really stands out as a protagonist.
Nilin from Remember Me. Above all i liked the game, but as a character in video games shes one of the few afforded time for introspection and just happens to be a bi-racial woman. She questions her own actions and the motives of others and actually shows remorse as a protagonist.
The game almost only features female characters as leading figures in their respective industries. From crime, business to architecture, the city of Neo-paris is run by women.
1.50 oh come on. As if male characters aren't often oversexualized or totally over the top, topless, musclepacked goodlooking badassses....
I clicked on this to see a list of top female characters, not hear this guy drone on for 5 minutes about the need for more female characters. It's all well and good you think that, but could you maybe have made it into its own video topic? Could've saved me like 5 minutes.
Ironically, the best female character is from a Ubisoft game. I'm of course talking about Jade from Beyond Good & Evil. I just started playing it again and it is fantastic.
Rule #1 applies to many male characters also, as most male video game characters have very overt secondary sexual characteristics and can be quite scantily clad themselves (Kratos from GOW for example). I believe this has a negative impact on the perception of the male physique. Not on the same level as female characters but i still believe this to be an issue that should be addressed in the gaming world.
As much as I love Portal I cannot agree with Chell being on the list for one main reason: the fact that she is a silent protagonist. Her being silent reinforces that she really has no way for her character to really develop. We hardly know anything about her besides the fact that she was probably brought to aperture for bring your kid to work day and was trapped. Besides that what do we really know about her? Her name is indicative of who she is: a shell for the character to play the story through. I'd argue that GLaDos is much more well defined especially in Portal 2 when we discover her origins and when she was turned into a potato we really get a much more vulnerable sense of who she is as a character without her big bad all powerful sense of control. GLaDos meets all the requirements on your list and I would like you to explain why you chose Chell over her.
I think Bayonetta deserves a spot on the list.
The ignorant might think she violates your first rule, but that's not the case. She's a sexy character but she's not "sexualized." What makes her interesting is that she's a rare example of a character who is made stronger by her sexual agency. She's hot, but she's not hot for YOU. It's a part of her personality that is used to put her in a position of power rather than others. Just because she is sexy doesn't mean she is objectified. Quite the opposite in this case, actually.
Blaze the Cat is pretty good, at least in her first appearance in Sonic Rush. She was a princess from another dimension who was trying to save her kingdom. She could do pretty much whatever Sonic could and wasn't forced to the sidelines because she was female.
How about Maya Fey from Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney?
Also the girl pokémon trainer (most recently Serena form X & Y).
Oh please, stop fucking using shady statistics. The ESA report has not mention of the methodology and how they defined the categories that they are analyzing. If your argument relies on such percentage, then i guess we can completely dismiss it.
You're awesome! And I love femshep, not only by the voice actress, is also the design, and also because the story is more original with Shep being a woman... and you can date Garrus.
I'm not saying "But you forgot this character" but another really monumental female character would be Poison, she's the most influential transgender woman in gaming and while Capcom has never handled the subject of her gender very well i have a lot of love for her character.
Hey man, I'm trying to be constructive here, so please don't take offense, but your titles are kind of click bait-ish, and I think it misrepresents your content.