How to Use Illusion Magic in D&D 5e

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  • Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 546

  • @SamanthaVimes177
    @SamanthaVimes177 2 года назад +827

    Monty's "why don't people check for illusions when there isn't an illusion wizard" line just shattered my mind and completely changed me as a DM. Thank you Dungeon Dudes, this made the 'the world is a looking glass and reflects much more of yourself then you realize' idea much more meaningful in a world with magic and illusions.

    • @johnandrewbellner
      @johnandrewbellner 2 года назад +15

      100% on this.

    • @theorycrafters7281
      @theorycrafters7281 2 года назад +23

      I felt the same way. Might start doing bbegs that start looking into illusions anytime a mage is present

    • @BurningMonkey
      @BurningMonkey 2 года назад +30

      @@theorycrafters7281 I think a better solution is to have the BBEG get fooled the first couple of times that illusions are used, assuming that they haven't been exposed to illusions before hand. Then the BBEG has a reason to think that the rampaging elephant isn't real
      until the party summons a rampaging elephant and messes with everyone again

    • @Pondering133
      @Pondering133 2 года назад +11

      Players have a Passive Investigation* check listed. I would use something similar on NPC's, something like if their passive is near the check DC they'll notice something off and possibly attempt to investigate. That's Int based so it leans towards a wizard-type knowing what illusions may typically look like.

    • @riotmcdohl1873
      @riotmcdohl1873 2 года назад +3

      Same. I work overnight and audibly said "damn, well done month" to myself

  • @leophilg
    @leophilg 2 года назад +341

    Currently playing an illusion wizard as we go through a big multi-level dungeon. When we discovered a room of guards I used Major Image to make the illusion of a minor boss we'd killed earlier who went in going "you idiots, don't you know we're under attack? You and you, go out there and look for these bastards, you go get your boss from the next room, I wanna talk to him." Half the guards left, one went to get a boss from the next room who came in talking. Managed to get some info from him about the monsters we'd have to face a little later on, then used Malleable Illusion to turn my guy into a monster who roared and soaked up some attacks while the fighters killed the evil cleric. Then, before heading into the next room used Malleable Illusion again to turn my monster into the cleric we'd just killed. In the next room were a few guards he'd left behind to come talk, one of whom had an obviously magic sword. My illusion, now in the form of the guard's boss, called my actual character over and introduced me as a new guy who just came to help out, and ordered him (the guard) to give me (my actual character) his sword so I could put an extra enchantment on it. Disarmed the biggest threat in the room and then started attacking.

  • @samueljames9193
    @samueljames9193 2 года назад +385

    Invisibility, the spell where you disguise yourself as the air.

  • @whompcity9003
    @whompcity9003 2 года назад +216

    Imagine being in the middle of rolling out a $1 million+ kickstarter, and still being able to make in depth RUclips videos. Amazing.

  • @stephenburley4581
    @stephenburley4581 2 года назад +136

    My wife loves to bring a mixture of illusions and summoning spells, and switch between them, so her opponents never know if they’re fighting something real or not.
    Personally, I’m a big fan of the illusory double bluff, casting an obvious illusion spell so that the opponents think something real is actually just an illusion. Nothing feels better than watching your opponent confidently stride into a gaping pit because it was covered up by an illusion of another pit.

    • @mitchhaelann9215
      @mitchhaelann9215 2 года назад +1

      There's a spell in a third-party supplement, Illusory Illusion, that makes anyone who fails their save believe that the thing you cast it on is OBVIOUSLY fake. Great way to walk into a xenophobic town with a tiefling or lizardfolk or orcish party member and not get harassed, or just keep your chest full of gems safe from thieves since they won't steal the 'fakes'. My warlock keeps it up on the Shield guardian we stole from that one sorceress jerk in Mad Mage.

    • @stephenburley4581
      @stephenburley4581 2 года назад +6

      @@mitchhaelann9215 I love that! What's the name of the supplement, I gotta start allowing that at my table!
      There was a tactic back in the DnD3.5 days where there was a feat called... I think it was Invisible Metamagic? It made the visual components of your spells invisible. We used to cast illusions but activate the Invisible metamagic so that the illusion would be invisible, because creatures with see invisibility / truesight would see through the invisibility and think the illusion was real. The mind games were real back in 3.5

    • @mitchhaelann9215
      @mitchhaelann9215 2 года назад +2

      @@stephenburley4581 The Book of Lost Spells from Necromancer Games.
      Most of it is updating old 2/3/4 editions spells to 5e, but I suggest you vet each spell individually, some of them are VERY powerful and gamebreaking. My DM allows them on a case-by-case basis, and only if you've got an in-character reason to know 'lost magics'. (My warlock is haunted/empowered/patronized/trolled by the souls of two arch-mages from Second Edition who boss him around. Statler and Waldorf style. He's an adventurer to try to fix their magic device that stopped working the last time magic cataclysmically changed).

    • @andrewlewis2123
      @andrewlewis2123 Год назад

      My brother once ran our party through “The Cave of Deep Illusions”, which is pretty much exactly what you described. All I remember from that fateful session was that the floor was lava, so my ranger confidently leapt into it, assuming a trick - and then fell five feet through the illusory lava into the actual lava. We were level 11 or 12 at the time, so I think he lived, but it instilled in me why the 10-foot-pole is worth its weight in gold.

    • @MEMENT0-MORl
      @MEMENT0-MORl 7 месяцев назад

      Maybe your life would like the Echo knight subclass for Fighter with a multiclass into illusion wizard

  • @Keovar
    @Keovar 2 года назад +102

    Illusions don't always have to be false. In my Drakkenheim game, I decided that the first Amethyst Academy ring can create a Minor Illusion that desplays a 'membership card'; the owner or a senior mage can call up the image. This allows for non-falsifiable identification, which helps guard against impostors or to identify the occasional body.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +10

      Illusions don't have to be "roll a persuasion check" style too.
      For my Eldritch Knight... Major Illusion gives me the mechanical ability to add in things like "God's Holy Light" and "Dark World" upon my enemies... Before I beat them down with my extra attacks in the next turn.

    • @kaiyamazaki1684
      @kaiyamazaki1684 2 года назад +6

      Their effects don't necessarily have to be either. If your playing a character like Scribe Wizard or Sorcerer and have Illusions that deal damage, you can change the damage to a non-physchic type one, making them take actual fatal wounds from something illusory lol

    • @Kahadi
      @Kahadi 2 года назад +8

      Another option would be to use them to explain something. Asking around in search of an NPC? Cast an illusion of them so those you're asking can see whom you mean even if they don't know their name, or to prevent mistakes with someone that looks similar (even if the DM wouldn't actually do that, it's still good to be careful for roleplay purposes). Or use an illusion to recreate a scenario, perhaps to show off an unrecognized threat to warn people (a Terrasque looks really scary even if you've never seen one before and have never heard of them before). Show off a plan or idea to better explain how it should work.
      Or a fun sort of falsehood, a masquerade using illusions in place of masks, or for a costume party, where everyone knows it isn't real but that's the point.

    • @Keovar
      @Keovar 2 года назад

      @@Kahadi - Right, my players do that pretty often.

  • @RobearRich
    @RobearRich 2 года назад +226

    The combo of minor illusion and silent image is a super fun combo.
    The eldritch invocation that lets you do silent image at will is super fun. I've used silent image to make an illusion of the corner of the room I was in to hide from guards. Since it didn't change anything about the room itself it was a perfect way to hide.
    My character also uses it like how Tony Stark uses his computers to make visual maps and diagrams of places we are trying to sneak into. I can also show people an exact replica of a person I'm looking for or other things like that.
    It is super fun and has come up much more easily than I thought it would.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +5

      As an Eldritch Knight. I can play Bury the Light with Minor Illusion then cast either Silent Image or Major Illusion (same spell effect but better) for Judgement Cut End.
      Then Bonus Action: Greater War Magic, for a melee weapon attack as the lethal hit.

    • @benkayvfalsifier3817
      @benkayvfalsifier3817 2 года назад +4

      @@absolstoryoffiction6615 ...okay, I'm confused bury the light and judgment cut end? what are you referring to

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +4

      @@benkayvfalsifier3817
      Devil May Cry 5...
      If your DM hints that the enemy is going to die in the next hit, then you can do something flashy.
      Such as... Summoning a massive sword from the sky and landing it on top of the enemy. Then EK's Greater War Magic melee weapon attack... This will finish off one creature and demoralize every other creature who saw what just happened.

    • @benkayvfalsifier3817
      @benkayvfalsifier3817 2 года назад +3

      @@absolstoryoffiction6615 Never played that game.
      That's a really good idea, I need to remember that.

    • @romanabanin2216
      @romanabanin2216 2 года назад +3

      @@absolstoryoffiction6615 or you can use steel strike (or something caled like that), 5th level spell that allows you to attack everybody in area. Different class tho

  • @Mallory-Malkovich
    @Mallory-Malkovich 2 года назад +90

    It was awesome to see Classic Loki using what was basically _Mirage Arcane_ in the _Loki_ series. That's what a high level illusionist can do.

    • @revuman
      @revuman 2 года назад +12

      Glorious Purpose!

    • @HUGIORX
      @HUGIORX Год назад +6

      after watching the series I always yell glorious purpose! when casting mirage arcane

  • @rcschmidt668
    @rcschmidt668 2 года назад +42

    Kelly mentioned one trick I like to use. I cast minor illusion that there was a giant snake at the corner of a dungeon passage. When the enemies saw it, they fired their crossbow bolts through it.
    I dropped the illusion and on my next action used the staff of the python to create a real giant snake just like the illusion, which bit the first one trying to charge through it and coiled around him.
    Would have liked to see the look of surprise and fear on his face.

  • @momo-yh7gf
    @momo-yh7gf 2 года назад +48

    (as a forest gnome rogue) ive been using minor illusion for communicating while dungeon crawling... scout a corridor or a door and relay back via an illusion of an "oil painting depicting 3 cultist guards" or whatever it is i have to report including text detailing a plan of attack. minor illusion does not have a verbal component so it doesnt mess with stealth.

    • @jrg305
      @jrg305 2 года назад +2

      Ideally yes. I've unfortunately been in games with shitty dms who don't let that work

    • @CarlHermannFreese
      @CarlHermannFreese 2 года назад +4

      I have I fairy princess who uses minor illusion to cast voices into the middle of the air to mess with 'mortals'. And as a warlock of her own Underhill plays with silent image misty vision. To confuse the issue even more.

    • @Plystire
      @Plystire 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@jrg305 Don't let it work how? As long as they're not trying to cast it further than 30 feet away (the spell's range), it's silent. That said... 30 feet is not very far, literally 6 tiles on the game board. The only time such a move would be warranted is if you're moving out of line of sight of your party, but still literally right around the corner.

  • @jimmywoolever798
    @jimmywoolever798 2 года назад +48

    A surprising illusion build is Warlock, with Minor Illusion (Tome) , Still Image (Misty Visions), and Disguise Self (Mask of Many Faces) all being capable of being cast at-will

    • @Grooveworthy
      @Grooveworthy 2 года назад +5

      Yup. I recently played a game where a pc with the Many Faces invocation was disguised as his own son for half the campaign and nobody knew.

  • @N1ghthavvk
    @N1ghthavvk 2 года назад +72

    Our warlock uses the minor illusions during role play elements, for example just today he showed a guard captain the illusion of a dead dog, that had been killed by a magic spell the evil cult used.
    Very helpful just as a "Power Point Presentation".

    • @vicentebahamondez196
      @vicentebahamondez196 2 года назад +4

      I send the spider familiar and then do minor ilusion 3D maps of the dungeon for planning meetings

  • @RobKinneySouthpaw
    @RobKinneySouthpaw 2 года назад +19

    My kid's first use of silent image was a palisade of tree trunks in a forest. The attacking orc totally bought that he had cast plant growth or similar magic, and went around the illusion. This was aided by the gnome pretending the illusory trees were real and going around them. That led to a game of whack-a-gnome where the Orc's aggressive dash was negated. Good stuff for a little guy

  • @___i3ambi126
    @___i3ambi126 2 года назад +71

    People often forget minor illusion's best use. It can make a sound, basically any sound including voices, from up to 30ft away (not limited by line of sight), with no verbal components (so the spell itself is silent).

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +8

      And the sound can be as complex as music or as simple as one note...
      Minor Illusion + Major Image + Illusory Reality is absolutely insane... But by lv14 to lv15, your campaign will probably come to a close.

    • @freman007
      @freman007 2 года назад +7

      In Descent into Avernus our wizard used minor illusion to create the sound of screaming humans outside the building to distract demons.

    • @jacobhamilton2473
      @jacobhamilton2473 2 года назад +7

      I use minor illusion to play music after battles. You could also use it to pretend to play an instrument you don't have proficiency with

    • @mitchhaelann9215
      @mitchhaelann9215 2 года назад +1

      Need to distract a town guard? Illusion of the sounds of a... 'lady of the night' engaging in a vocal round of 'her profession' in a nearby alley.

    • @andrewlewis2123
      @andrewlewis2123 Год назад +3

      Cast Minor Illusion on your bag of pocket-sand to make it sound like jangling gold, toss it to a gullible NPC, and you’ve just approximated the Friends cantrip!

  • @mosespray4510
    @mosespray4510 Год назад +5

    I just wanted to tell you guys that I'm really enjoying your content. I love how you both speak clearly, and you always allow each other to say their piece without interruption. I'm an older guy who played a lot as a High School student in the early 80's, but not a lot since then. I'm trying to get back into it now, and you're really helping a lot.

  • @coopmeister3000
    @coopmeister3000 2 года назад +17

    One really nice and flexible use of Major Image my DM allows me to use is to mimic the Fog Cloud spell. By training with my fellow party members and telling them "when I do this, that means it's an illusion", we can get party-wide advantage combined with disadvantage for any enemies. He still makes my party members roll to not be fooled (even if you look at one of those magic eye pictures in real life, sometimes it still takes a little while to see it), but he does give them one free check instead of needing to take an action to do so for the first attempt.
    As with all illusion magic there's some variation in the interpretation of it - technically Major Image says that physical interaction reveals it to be an illusion "because things can pass through it", but it makes sense to us that interacting with an illusion of fog doesn't necessarily give it away as an illusion just by touching it since things should pass through fog anyway.
    I like it since I'm an illusion wizard and it gives me a combat use for one of the spells I that I really want to prepare for out-of-combat situations, and it's a cool instance of character cooperation (we spent some time training with me showing them what it would look like and such). It feels cool to pull off a tactic we've practiced for :)

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      It's all dependant on what Move means as a rule. Is it Movement or is it Animation, or both? For Illusion Spells.
      Either way, RAW... I would take the Eldritch Initiate Feat for Silent Image or Mask of Many Faces then (as an Eldritch Knight) pare that up with Minor Illusion + Silent Image with Magic Initiate + Magic Adept Feat.
      Maybe taking Shadow Touched, Fay Touched, and Ritual Caster Feats too.
      Then Warcaster and Dual Wielder will help with a few things.

  • @AleksiJoensuu
    @AleksiJoensuu 2 года назад +7

    Thanks Dungeon Dudes! The bit about "have you ever seen a monster try to determine whether something that wasn't an illusion spell was an illusion?" was a miniature mind-blown moment. I have not! Our group runs two campaigns, one DM'd by me and one by another member. We each have illusion using characters in one another's campaigns and I immediately shared this with them!
    Also thanks for mentioning that using illusions should be rewarding for the players! One of my favourite moments from the campaign I play in was preventing an enemy from escaping by diving off a pier and swimming away. My second level bard cast Silent Image to create the image of a shark circling the waters right next to the pier. They fell for it, and our barbarian grappled the enemy for questioning. A really rewarding moment for me!

  • @Grooveworthy
    @Grooveworthy 2 года назад +17

    Don't forget though, even minor illusions in combat can be useful even if it gets dispelled right away, because if an enemy blows an action to investigate, it's one less attack on you. Also it can be used to create concealment from ranged attacks and attacks that depend on line of sight. Very strong.

  • @SimplyMe514
    @SimplyMe514 2 года назад +23

    The only character I ever got to play properly was an illusionist wizard. As a newbie, it was a bit of a masochistic choice, but I don't regret a single minute of it. It helped that my DM at the time was very much a non-violent person who appreciated creative solutions that did not involve blasting everything in sight, so my chosen school fit that kind of playstyle like a glove.

    • @JayAllenftw
      @JayAllenftw 2 года назад +1

      I’m playing on now and I added a restriction to take and prepare every illusion spell I could in lieu of some more obviously useful spells from other schools. This keeps me in the mind of the illusionsist and makes me think more creatively than “Ah, the hell with it: Fireball!”.
      It’s completely masochistic BUT it’s also SUPER creative and I love it.

  • @Kantohammer
    @Kantohammer 2 года назад +16

    My players were fighting demons. I noticed one had minor illusion. I tricked them into thinking it summoned another demon. It wasn’t much, but it caused them to waste one attack. I had the demon audibly laugh when they fell for it. It was a great moment.

  • @jansolo4628
    @jansolo4628 2 года назад +4

    Illusions are so neat but like what someone told me: "Illusions are the hardest thing to consider for optimizers because of how DM-dependent it is", or something along those lines.
    To be fair, there are newer DM's who don't know much and can easily get pressured into making things up to be extremely unfair one way or another, this video is great for those DMs. On the other hand, some DMs are just kinda mean about it and everyone supposedly suddenly thinks the Warlock's summoned Fiend is real but the Wizard's illusion isn't (despite no enemies being around to hear or see what spell was cast), hopefully things like this vid would change their mind about these rulings.
    Great vid as always! I'll make sure to take these advice when a player of mine inevitably use an illusion spell.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      I always point at the books...
      I go by RAW/RAI, so a DM would need a very good reason as to why they don't know how to react with what I do. Since, on the flip side, it's also simple to DM about, given the context of what's happening.
      Granted... My DM is the Book. I follow that more closely since RAW/RAI is predominant in the community.

  • @IrNaLann
    @IrNaLann 2 года назад +15

    I love playing Illusionists, but I like to link my spells together. I might use create bonfire or firebolt in a combat and then afterwards throw a major image out of a wall of fire. The enemies know I have magical control of fire and therefore ought to have a much harder time seeing through my false wall of fire

    • @jrg305
      @jrg305 2 года назад +1

      I can see that but it would just be your spell DC. They would be less likely to check it tho as an action.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад

      Eldritch Knight: "I cast Banish on the creature. Then I cast Major Illusion, ending Banish."
      Creature: "What is the meaning of this? Why is there beer in my hands?"
      Eldritch Knight: "Do you want a refill?... Major Illusion, please refill his glass of beer."
      Creature: "Is this even real? It feels real. It smells reals. It looks real. It even tastes real."
      Eldritch Knight: "I'm happy to hear that. Care for another serving?"
      Creature: "S-sure..."
      The 5 other PCs: "Can we take a short rest?"
      Eldritch Knight: "Sure thing. The room is to your left and the bath is automated for you all."
      The Wizard: "I'm gonna do what's called a pro Caster move... FIRE BALL!"
      Eldritch Knight: "Reaction: Absorb Elements, then I'll Second Wind on my turn. Cheers!"
      Creature: "Ah, don't worry. I'm immune to fire damage and it's my turn."
      The Wizard: "Do your worst, foul creature."
      Creature: "I'm a Fighter Creature, and do you know what that means?"
      The DM: "Dear lord, you're going to lose a character in the first session, Mr. Wizard."

  • @valerius88
    @valerius88 Год назад +3

    If you take the Misty Visions Eldritch Invocation to cast Silent Image (concentration) at will, and then use it in conjunction with Minor Illusion (not concentration), you can create moving illusions with sound. It's not perfect, since the illusions don't hold up to touch or smell, etc., but it is AT WILL.

  • @egonhomes
    @egonhomes 2 года назад +9

    I think my favorite use of Illusion magic wasn't done by myself, but written in Dragon magazine. Issue 229 features an article that is both a good example of illusory magic at work and contains one of my favorite spells. The article is named "Illusions of Grandeur" and my favorite illusion spell is "Spectral Farce".

  • @shrillz
    @shrillz 2 года назад +10

    I love how much room there is for creativity with most illusion spells, though they should probbly have more mechanical interaction and less dependency on dm interpretation

  • @kyotocrossley8103
    @kyotocrossley8103 2 года назад +7

    Illusionist wizard main here so excited for this episode

  • @TheMightyBattleSquid
    @TheMightyBattleSquid Год назад +2

    21:09 rewatching this video and I love tye exclamation of "Oh no, a rock creature in a cave. That makes a lot of sense!" Such a scooby doo-esque thing to shout lol
    "Oh no, a shark in the water! That makes a lot of sense!" " Oh no, a bear in a forest, that makes a lot of sense!" 🤣

  • @GunnerM60
    @GunnerM60 2 года назад +9

    Mirror Image is great for non-hexblade warlocks. Great protection spell since you tend to be a little squishy and is often overlooked because it doesn't have an upcasting mechanic. But because warlock spells come back on a short rest, it's a good way to help you stay alive.

  • @adriel8498
    @adriel8498 2 года назад +13

    woow, I'm playing a creation bard illusionist at a campaig right now. This is exactly what I needed.

  • @riftalope
    @riftalope 2 года назад +1

    One of the best fixed illusions I've ever encountered was from a fellow PC who was making his tower as part of our group's estate. He simply extended the forest an acre closer to the tower. The result being that if a stranger, or group of them, came snooping they'd beout in the open thinking they were among tree cover.
    He spent weeks permanently casting the spell into a ring of large stones, and sharpening the reality enough to fool a tree-climbing ranger. "You'll smell the season, the weather, chipmunks above and wild pigs in the distance." He even added sheep trails and a hot summer wind coming off of the field.
    Because we knew the illusion well enough to see it and see through it we captured two bands of orcs, an intelligent young wyvern, and six noble that had a very dirty orgy. Well, the nobles weren't so much captured as they were joined by the landlords. The human mage (m), a half-elf druid (f) and my dwarven fighter (m). "How better to keep a secret than to be party to it?"

  • @colsenthissell1012
    @colsenthissell1012 2 года назад +24

    Big fan of this specialized type of video! If we could get deep dives on some other kinds of magic, such as Enchantment or Conjuration, that would be awesome!

  • @slammysalami7869
    @slammysalami7869 2 года назад +2

    Had my first session of D&D a few weeks ago and I caught the bug. Been obsessed with D&D since and your channel has been my favorite resource for D&D tips and tricks. As someone whose first-ever and current character is an Arcane Trickster, I’m thrilled that you guys released a video on illusion magic. Thanks guys!

  • @emilycreamer1307
    @emilycreamer1307 2 года назад +5

    I just made a Shadow Magic Sorcerer who is a mime, specializing in invisible walls (Shield, hold person) and illusions (minor illusion, silent image).
    There were some pretty funny battles where a charging Goliath kept face planting into invisible walls fighting against my tiny shadow mime.
    My dm thought it was so funny that he rolled a d4 for damage for the Goliath running a full 40 feet into an invisible wall.

    • @emilycreamer1307
      @emilycreamer1307 2 года назад +1

      He has a bard friend who can cast silence and my mime (Mimy) can use Subtle Spell meta magic to silently cast spells. Thematically it's great.

    • @Newnodrogbob
      @Newnodrogbob 2 года назад

      Comedy gold. Gotta love it.

  • @TheMountainLynx
    @TheMountainLynx 2 года назад +27

    14th level Illusionist subclass feature: Illusory Reality. Make an illusion of a passage through the wall. Make it real for your party. Revert it to a full illusion once you're through. Pursuing enemies receive a Roadrunner Special.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад

      Lv5 Echo Knight + lv15 Illusionist Wizard = "THIS IS POWER!!!", then proceeds to cast Illusory Reality Effect + Major Illusion (sound effect) + Minor Illusion: Grande Fire Ball!!!
      The Fire Ball Wizard: "My Fire Ball can do that too... ... ... I cast Fire Ball."
      DM: "You burn three enemies but they're all immune to Fire Damage."
      Echo Wizard: "My damage is Force."
      DM: "Every enemy in the town dies."

    • @axiomostanes
      @axiomostanes 2 года назад +2

      "When you cast an illusion spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose one inanimate, nonmagical object that is part of the illusion and make that object real."
      I think most DMs would rule that you cannot use this to make holes in walls (or get rid of things in general), because "lack of [wall material]" is not an object.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      @@axiomostanes
      Lv5 Echo Knight/lv15 Illusionist Wizard: "The hole is just a ploy. What is above shall be the entertainment. Let the Rod of God bring forth retribution upon the foul monsters."
      DM: "You successfully killed the occult members in one action."
      Paladin: "And I thought I was the DPS one."

    • @normative
      @normative Год назад

      @@axiomostanesYup. I love the idea, but RAW I don’t think it works.

  • @AgentForest
    @AgentForest 2 года назад +8

    If you plan to do a lot of disguise magic, Actor, Linguist, and Observant are really solid feats. Being able to easily impersonate, speak many languages, and read lips from a distance help you do the research you need beforehand.

  • @ronstahl5783
    @ronstahl5783 2 года назад +4

    Great stuff as always! I would like to add for those low level spellcasters who want to learn as they go, that Silent Image doesn’t get nearly the respect it ought to. Players often shy away from it because it seems a job half done. What they often don’t realize is that you can layer the minor image cantrip onto it and you almost have the equivalent of the third level illusion. The area is smaller, but if all you need is to make it appear a guard is at his station, or a ruffian still drinking alone in the corner of the inn, this combo is more than enough. Minor Image does not require concentration, and its audio uses are often its best uses, so don’t shy away from illusions even as a first level character. Jump right in!

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      Eldritch Knight: "BURY THE LIGHT DEEP WITHIN!!!... ... ... Oh, sorry. I forgot to turn off my Minor Illusion." *click* "Now... Where is my Yamato?" *Weapon Bond Summon* "Jack Pot."
      Bandit: "I just wanted to steal you gold. Why on this day, am I facing against an Eldritch Knight?"
      Eldritch Knight: "Show me your motivation... Major Illusion: Eldritch Trigger!"

  • @Jasta85
    @Jasta85 2 года назад +6

    The issue with creative use of illusions is it depends entirely on whether the DM is willing to roll with it, I've had DM's that are very go with the flow, and others that didn't like illusions being used in a lot of situations. So its something that ranges anywhere from extremely useful to useless depending on your situation.

    • @Newnodrogbob
      @Newnodrogbob 2 года назад +5

      I don’t get that. As a DM I am enthusiastic about (virtually) anything my players are enthusiastic about. My players recently completely circumvented a massive fight through clever use of stealth and illusions. The chaos and fallout was way more fun for them than rolling dice for 20 minutes to bash their way through 20 low CR opponents who they didn’t want to kill with fireballs…it didn’t go even remotely the way I had planned it out. That’s what was awesome about it.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      That's the fault on the DM. Not on the Players... Just like railroading.

  • @backonlazer791
    @backonlazer791 2 года назад +5

    Yes, the tip about talking with the DM about expectations was a good one. I had a player who made an illusion wizard and I as a relatively new DM didn't really know how to handle all the illusions or what the player was expecting with them. The player ended up leaving the campaign shortly after. Luckily it wasn't on bad terms, but had we discussed more about the expectations maybe that wouldn't have happened.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      In regard to Minor Illusion, Silent Image, and Major Image (in my experience)...
      RAW... At least on the web. It's pretty clear cut on what a player can and cannot do with it. Just like Mask of Many Faces.
      However, for DMs... A lv14 Illusionist Wizard will get Illusory Reality. Be very careful of what your players make Real for a time. Because it can get extremely complicated or difficult to run.
      Granted... If a player Major Image + Illusory Reality an army of stringed puppets, then just group the Units together. Don't treat them as separate creatures.
      I play as the Eldritch Knight, so my experience with Wizard Spells are only up to 4th level and 6th level with maxed out Magic Adept.
      (Also RAW... Unless NPCs knows that you casted an illusion or that such things could never exist in the current time/place. Then all illusions are treated as "real" until they beat your Spell DC or physically interact with it... A DM shouldn't meta game what the books set forth as rules. It breaks the 4th wall.)

  • @davea6314
    @davea6314 2 года назад +43

    Minor Illusion is a very useful cantrip.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +9

      False Invisibility, Holy Light Beams of God, True Dark World, Infinite Plastic Chairs Works... And so on.
      Both Minor Illusion, Silent Image, and Major Illusion can be very good in the right hands of players with a DM who knows how Illusion Spells work.

  • @theoverlord4904
    @theoverlord4904 2 года назад +3

    This is by far my favorite video Dungeon Dudes! I love illusion magic in D&D and I'm glad y'all finally made a video for it. I agree that it has so many uses in campaigns and it's ideal for newbies and veterans alike since its limits are ones imagination.

  • @Esperologist
    @Esperologist 2 года назад +6

    17:00 - That is one of the issues I've had with 5e. There are a lot of 'it doesn't say that, so it can't do that' situations.
    In my opinion, the first instance of a 'kind of spell' should list both what it can and cannot do.
    For example : Minor Illusion
    Can - create a sound or 'image of an object'.
    Sound Can - be volume from whisper to scream. Can be caster's voice, or anyone else's voice. Be a roar, drums, or any sound. Can be constant, or be discrete sounds at different times. (Discrete ; individually separate or distinct.)
    Sound Can't - be layered. (The sounds must be discrete, easily identified as separate sounds. So, one scream can come after the other... but can't have two screams at the same time.)
    Image Can - by an object that fits within a 5-foot cube, including objects. Image can be instantly identified as an illusion by passing through the object in an attempt to interact.
    Image Can't - include sound, light, smell, or other sensory effects.
    Possible GM Interpretations:
    Sound - Cannot be moved... or maybe it can, within the range of the spell. Can be heard based on how loud it is... or maybe it can only be heard within the 5ft cubed targeted, no matter how loud it is.
    Object - Cannot be moved... or maybe it can... after all, you can just re-cast it every turn anyway so maybe it can 'teleport around'. (Dr. Who angels anyone?)
    Interpreted by Lacking What Other Spells Say:
    Silent Image can be moved and animated when moving... so Minor Illusion can't be animated, and probably can't be moved.
    Major Image mentions needing to be within range of the illusion to be able to cause it to move around... Silent Image does not mention this restriction. It probably has that restriction... but RAW technically implies Silent Image has no such limitations.
    ---
    Having a character currently that has Hallucinatory Terrain, I've learned a bit. First off, it can only add... not remove. So, it can't 'make a pit' to trick people... but it can hide a pit. It can't remove trees... so it can't be used to 'create a clearing' in the woods for line of sight.
    Technically, you could hide structures by creating the illusion of a hill... unless your GM interprets 'aren't changed in appearance' as 'can't be hidden through any creative use of this spell'. I was also barred from adding trees, as they aren't terrain. (Mainly because there are plant creatures. So I can't make a tree because treants.)
    Looking to Mirage Arcane. (Haven't used it myself, just considering potential rulings I might encounter if I did get it.) It can alter or add structures... but can't disguise, conceal, or add creatures. So... you can add a building... but standing inside the building, you are not allowed to benefit from being 'concealed'. If you created a hill and hid inside that illusion, you can't be 'concealed' by the spell, so...
    Interestingly, the illusion for Mirage Arcane can be touched, picked up, smelled, make noise, etc... it basically seems like real terrain until carried out of the area of effect. Which now raises the question... could you mold earth (or other spells) the Mirage Arcane?
    - I do realize that it is basically saying it can't act like invisibility, but the word choice technically means it can't be used to create an ambush at all. And, using the rule of 'if a stronger spell can't do it', then no illusions that create visual objects can be used to conceal creatures.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      RAW wise... That's not how Minor Illusion works in 5e.
      But we have OneDnD to look forward to.

  • @nickm9102
    @nickm9102 Год назад +2

    Minor illusion is so versatile. I love the idea of throwing it up and hiding behind it for ambush (just change the shape of that cave a little bit). I also think it is a good option for battle planning (map) or just quick document presentation. Give me a PC with keen mind and minor illusion and have them enter a Wizard's keep and go over his spell book. Then minor illusion the pages for a Wizard to copy from. Or be cheaky and copy the spells without to he inks and just have a Book that contains the formula of every spell in existence but can never be cast from.

  • @theshadow6277
    @theshadow6277 2 года назад +7

    I've seen Dream used to great effect in the Unexpectables by Panic. Once to get information from a friend who was captured as well as calm them down, and again to figure out unknown Intel from a high ranking enemy and possibly plant some seeds of doubt in them.

  • @nman423nj
    @nman423nj 2 года назад +2

    Still one of my favorite times I’ve used illusion magic:
    We were wanting to make a large distraction to cause chaos. So I used Major image to have a adult blue dragon fly in from the direction of the sun (to explain why it just appeared, using the sun to hide like a real bird of prey). After the dragon landed and roared loudly, a friend cast lightning bolt at a high level, and at such an angle that it look liked it can from the dragon’s gaping maw. This caused lots of chaos and was a lot of fun. They eventually found out it was an illusion, but the chaos was already started and we got what we wanted out of it and came out unscathed. It was so much fun.!

  • @sweatband100
    @sweatband100 Год назад +1

    My most memorable use of illusions came near the end of our Light of Xaryxis Spelljammer campaign. The party needed to convince various factions to join our fleet, my bard and the Wizard teamed up with a combination of major image & minor illusion to create a multimedia presentation that helped us seal the deal. Role playing that moment is probably my favorite moment from that campaign, love me some illusion magic!

  • @schemage2210
    @schemage2210 2 года назад +4

    Probably my favourite illusionist memory is when I had my 11th level warlock using his array of illusion spells (and probably amble leeway from the DM) win a Christmas themed festival where the warlock made illusionary snowmen and proceeded to do a slap stick comedy skit with them. It was completely inconsequential to any quest line, but dearly memorable.

  • @gildedbear5355
    @gildedbear5355 2 года назад +13

    The discussion of not checking for illusions where the pcs don't have illusion magic is a VERY SUBTLE sort of meta gaming that I never thought about before! I propose something similar to a thing I did when I decided that my character wasn't as smart as I am: roll for it. Roll for whether the character in question (npcs in this case) has the same idea that you, the DM, had (namely that they should or shouldn't check for illusions). Roll against their wisdom or intelligence with (dis)advantage if they are familiar with (or not) magic or illusions?

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +2

      "If I don't see it, then it doesn't exist.", object permanence.
      At least to me... I wouldn't question it if I haven't seen it in-game.

  • @TheRawrnstuff
    @TheRawrnstuff 2 года назад +2

    15:44 "There has to be some trigger..."
    For me, my quick and dirty trigger is enemy INT 16+ for even considering checking for illusions. Obviously I adjust it based on circumstances, and realistically - in a world full of magic - illusions should probably be checked more often, but I don't want to bog down gameplay for tons of illusion checks for NPCs, either.
    INT 16+ has been working great for me.

  • @Frog_Wizard801
    @Frog_Wizard801 2 года назад +2

    I just got through the ask your dm portion and I am already in a discussion about how illusions work this is great advice and as a first time player I wouldn’t have thought to ask these questions without this video, your videos have been instrumental in helping me get started with dnd and I wanted to thank both of you!

  • @Nickle_King
    @Nickle_King 2 года назад +3

    One thing to keep in mind. Major Image may have complete sensory effects, but it can not hurt anything. Meaning, if you use this illusion to make a Wall of Fire or a lava pit, there will be the sensation of heat coming from it, but it will be no where near as hot as it should be, especially with the lava. Plus there won't be any real smoke or any spreading flames or significant light beyond a certain threshold or heat waves.
    So be careful who or what you use fake fire against, as it might be the easiest thing to see through as most everyone knows how fire should act.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      Illusions spells have zero to no DPR or Defence stat related effects. Most of it are for PR moments.
      And if 5e was boiled down into a video game, then Illusion Spells wouldn't be compatible or be too difficult to design in the abstract.
      As a TTRPG, illusion spells have the same worth as Mage Hand. It's extremely good when in the right hands.

  • @ericpheymannicie5044
    @ericpheymannicie5044 2 года назад +1

    My party's Bard just picked up the Flute of Illusions at the same time as leveling up to gain lvl3 spell slots. I was really excited to offer a bonus to the effect of illusion spells when cast using the flute of illusions. The idea was that "giving Bards advantage on performance checks" should increase the power of those spells, so I told her if she wanted to take Hypnotic Pattern, she could impose disadvantage on saving throes for targets of the spell as long as the area of effect included her, and the targets were within the 15ft range of the Flute of Illusions' bonus effect. There's a good chance I was setting myself up for disaster, but I really liked the idea that she would need to be smack dab in the middle of enemies in order to ever want to cast the spell this way... She would always want to avoid including allies in the spell's area (though I ruled that the pattern couldn't effect HER, because I'm fairly certain that is intended, but not written in the spell description).
    The vision in my head was a nearly total party kill scenario, all allies are down or fleeing, and the gnome bard with slower movement speed is quickly surrounded by enemies... calmly she turns to them and pulls out a finely crafted flute. As she begins to play, images start to dance around her, spreading out and flowing like soothing waves of light and mesmerizing her assailants. She finishes her song, puts the flute back in her pocket, and calmly begins stabilizing her allies or walking away entirely, as a horde of enemies stand dumbfounded by the pretty lights. =)
    Lucky for me she ended up taking Speak with Plants instead, but I'm offering a similar effect to her Phantasmal Force that she casts quite often. Definitely much less broken applying that bonus to single-target spells. lol

  • @AgentForest
    @AgentForest 2 года назад +3

    My favorite use for Minor Illusion is bait or some other distraction. A noise coming from the wrong way, letting us sneak up on distracted enemies (usually disadvantage on enemy perception against stealth), or, even more fun, bait. A small animal with an arrow in it that fled a hunter could seem tasty to a beast, or a ripped pouch with some coins and gems spilling out to lure out bandits or goblins.

  • @jakeholmes9296
    @jakeholmes9296 2 года назад +8

    I hope misty vision for the warlock gets a mention. Combining this and minor illusion is pretty rad

  • @ShallieDragon
    @ShallieDragon 2 года назад +1

    I actually missed this myself: minor illusion specifically says it can only create sounds or images of OBJECTS. Not creatures. So while you could create an illusion of a boulder, you can't create an illusion of a goblin. Meanwhile, silent image does specify that a creature is an option for the illusion. An important but subtle difference.

  • @talongreenlee7704
    @talongreenlee7704 2 года назад +1

    I think that for classic illusions, you should have an intermediary step between “I know this is an illusion” and “I fully believe this is real”. There should be a “I don’t know for sure this is real and I have reason to believe it might be an illusion but I don’t know for sure” kind of attitude. If the illusion is dangerous, there should be a saving throw before the creature can interact with the illusion, even if they know its illusory. Creatures that aren’t sure or fully believe the illusion should have disadvantage on their save.

  • @johnlavender2875
    @johnlavender2875 2 года назад +1

    Thanks for this video! I'm DMing a "Dead of Night" (SC2) scenario, one of the side quests is to deal with a vampire lord that is a master of illusions (one of the PCs is playing a true vampire looking for vampiric gear). I've never really dabbled into illusion school, so this video really helped me with ideas on how to run this NPC.

  • @robertsilvermyst7325
    @robertsilvermyst7325 2 года назад +6

    Using Minor Illusion is great for providing yourself cover as a ranged attacker. I usually have my rogue/sorcerer quicken Minor Illusion to make the illusion of a 5x5 ft crate, then fire off my arrows or a Shadow Blade shot, get off my sneak attack if possible, and then go prone to give me total cover from sight. Pop back up next turn, shoot again or summon Shadow Blade and fire it at ranged again, pop back down, rinse and repeat.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад

      For my Eldritch Knight, Minor Illusion is just my Boom Box while Major Illusion or Silent Image are the full Illusionary stuff.
      It's pretty cool to call upon legion of illusionary Spartans with Major Illusion while Minor Illusion plays God of War 3 Kratos Theme.
      At least for the EK... Lv4 Spells is all I can go up to without investing into a Magic Initiate + max Magic Adept Feat for two lv6 Spell Slots + one lv1 Spell Slot + two Cantrips. With extra Feat options to spare for Warcaster and Eldritch Initiate: Mask of Many Faces.

  • @markismiller6484
    @markismiller6484 2 года назад +3

    I'm subscribed to so many people so many I don't watch like I used to. And for some reason I always still get notification on my phone of your content I think RUclips has your channels back because there's so many people I don't watch anymore and I never get notification for them like I do you guys.

  • @ziggymack2233
    @ziggymack2233 2 года назад +2

    I would love to see a series of different types of magic tips and deep dives just like this!

  • @Mallymutts86
    @Mallymutts86 Год назад +1

    I’m currently playing a Magician/Lore Bard. I can’t wait my magical secrets at level 6! Going to get a couple Wizard illusion spells that aren’t in my regular spell list.

  • @thefakeslimshady8881
    @thefakeslimshady8881 2 года назад +1

    Warlocks can be amazing illusionists even with just a 2 level dip. Misty visions, mask of many faces, and minor illusion can make you an amazing illusionist at second level. Silent image for visuals + minor illusion for audio. I’d at least rule this as disadvantage on the investigation check.
    My favourite illusionist I’ve ever played was 10 levels of feylock (pact of the chain) and 6 levels of wizard (illusionist)

  • @Daggoth65
    @Daggoth65 2 года назад +7

    I'd really love to see some build or discussions on Grim Hallow subclasses

  • @Tom-bi7ir
    @Tom-bi7ir Год назад +1

    Awesome work. Thinking of taking misty visions so thank you very much

  • @alittlebit_rusty5321
    @alittlebit_rusty5321 2 года назад +1

    Just started a illusion sorcerer and this has helped a tonne. Especially now I’ve talked to my DM. Great video! Also love Kelly’s shirt, gorillaz are also great 😂

  • @mrthor8273
    @mrthor8273 2 года назад +8

    It's fun to have an illusion spell and the real thing. Did I actually cast wall of fire, or did I cast an illusory one?

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +2

      With Illusory Reality at lv14 for Illusionist Wizards... That illusion can become real.

  • @um4951
    @um4951 2 года назад +2

    Needed a good breakdown, thank you guys very much!

  • @andrewzachar
    @andrewzachar 2 года назад +3

    I recently had fun combining Mirror Image with Polymorph. Quite disrupting when four t-rex appear in the middle of the battlefield.

  • @thegraphite
    @thegraphite 5 месяцев назад

    Great channel and great video! Really helpful!
    A similar topic that would be really helpful would be a talk about how to use enchantment spells. Many enchantment spells end with the target knowing they've been charmed, often being hostile. It would be informative and helpful to have advice on how to use charm/enchantment spells effectively despite this downside. Keep up the good work!

  • @joshuadefriese1907
    @joshuadefriese1907 2 года назад +2

    I have a warlock illusionist-infiltrator build up my sleeve, and taking Mask of Many Faces and Misty Visions will most certainly be my top picks now!

    • @jrg305
      @jrg305 2 года назад

      If you can go Changeling race (in monsters of the multiverse) it saves you both eldritch invocations for disguise self and alter self and the Actor feat all at once. The changeling race is way OP.
      I played your build for the most part in waterdeep dragon heist and my DM didn't know what to do so just did passive high investigation or guards casting detect magic repeatedly or divination location spells to sus me out. He even did a wish spell against us at level 5 once I carried an amulet of nondetection. His priests involved touch elements for their blessings.
      Basically he was a shit DM and ruined my whole char concept the entire way through the module where it was supposed to be a badass build. Fuck him.lucky I'm still playing dnd at all after him.
      Our game then led to candlekeep. Well guess what, he disallows flying in the city. My warlock got that at level 6. My imp does that. He wouldn't let me impersonate officials there either. I had suggestion and charm ready if I got caught but then I realized he was fudging those dice rolls on fantasy grounds too.
      We did a pvp arena match and he didn't allow charming or disguises or kiting. He expected me to stand toe to toe with a sorcerer with counterspell. There are ways to beat that if you use invisibility. But not if he says you can't kite.
      So don't play this build with an asshole.

    • @jrg305
      @jrg305 2 года назад

      Ideally the dm should only run a check if you fail a deception check as the person you are disguised as or do something uncharacteristically ungraceful. And if they see you are disguised, the spell doesn't say it reveals your true identity. It is just they notice you're in a disguise. So like if you see someone wearing too much makeup and a mustache and hat, you don't know they have horns or are bald. You don't know they have different color eyes or are a foot shorter. You just know they are in disguise.
      DMs have shit all over illusions in the games I've played.

  • @johnnycoleman75
    @johnnycoleman75 2 года назад +1

    one of my pcs is a drakewarden with the misty visions invocations and the other is a druid. they opened the fight by "summoning" a tree ent. the bad guy lighting bolted them and the illusion, revealing the illusion. then the druid wild shaped into a bear. i had the bad guy ignore the bear and go after the ranger and gave the druid advantage on their opportunity attack. for the rest of the fight every time something appeared (another illusion, a tiny dragon that they just killed and conjured animals) i had one of the bad guys waste an action inspecting it.

  • @schlageman2183
    @schlageman2183 2 года назад +4

    Would this work? In a hallway/passage you set up a wall of fire with a major image then set up a real wall of fire with the damaging side opposite the image so that the pursuers stop but realize it is an illusion and then plow headlong into the damage side and take it as a surprise? That would be two feet of no damage and then the full blast on the backside.

    • @JayAllenftw
      @JayAllenftw 2 года назад +1

      I’d just simplify it and have the illusion be what they would see without the wall of fire (e.g. the hallway behind it)

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад

      Yes... That would be comedic.
      Remember... Major Image (unlike Silent Image) affects the 5 senses. So you can have Major Image: Wall of Fire, burn like it's from the sun. But it won't damage the targets.

  • @billycarter6992
    @billycarter6992 2 года назад +1

    As DM, I allow grand illusion by my villain NPCs, able to conjure and illusionary Storm where the party is caught up in the sound, even think themselves wet… mirage fits that as well.

  • @Silenc42
    @Silenc42 2 года назад

    First illusionist I saw in one of my groups was 3.5e. It was a gnome whose illusions were so powerful that they became real to a certain degree. Even if you disbelieved his illusionary fireball, you still took. half damage (later 80% or something). The greatest benefit was, he got a lot of flexibility and got around the vancian casting system that way.
    Also: Fun roleplay :D

  • @thatbrokenchair
    @thatbrokenchair 2 года назад +6

    sick shirt kelly

  • @ShrankTheFirst
    @ShrankTheFirst 2 года назад

    My most effective disguises have usually been threefold:
    1 - A Disguise Kit check to give myself the rough features of what I'm disguising as
    2 - Disguise Self to smoothen the disguise. My DM gives disadvantage to NPCs interacting with my disguise, because thanks to my actual disguise underneath, it feels the way it looks.
    3 - Tongues to avoid any language barrier problems.
    Add to that a good Deception skill, as well as decent Insight to intuit what other people EXPECT to hear from you. and I've done some pretty deep infiltration.

  • @wafelsen
    @wafelsen 2 года назад +1

    I just finished DM a party that went into a basilisk cave to kill the basilisk while an illusionist went in to get the eggs. He went away and came back as someone else to convince party there were more enemies than they thought, had a familiar who he said could talk and breathe fire (just for fun/flavor though also a nice hint about the illusion spells he used) and created a second illusory basilisk with phantasmal force to escape. The party wondered for A WHILE why only one person could see it and be attacked by it.

  • @antimatters6283
    @antimatters6283 2 года назад

    Great video, required viewing. I love Monty's super logical point *"Why don't monsters check for illusions for legitimate things!?"*
    I agree with Monty's take: Suspecting illusions has to be reasonable and rare -- however, once a group or orcs are fooled a couple times and being to catch on to illusion magic, then is the time to spring the real thing on them.
    As a DM, I have had that in my game: monsters "Disbelieve" something is real, like Spike Growth, and the monsters run right into it, saying "That wasn't here before! It is fake!!!"
    One key element may be: "Did the targets see you pop up the illusion?"
    Even then, in a world of magic, making a rock pile would still fool most people, at least for 1-3 rounds.
    One thing not discussed is Illusions can't make things disappear or be replaced. Casters can't make a section of a floor look like a pit when the real floor is present. They can cover something, like a box on the floor, but they can't make an existing floor or wall appear not to be present.

  • @patrickb.8485
    @patrickb.8485 Год назад

    Great video. This is definitely a touchy topic in some campaigns. Illusions can make a DMs life difficult but at the same time you don't want to limit player creativity. You brought up a lot of good points and offered solid advice I thought.

  • @SinisterSqueel
    @SinisterSqueel 2 года назад +2

    I love using the Dream/Nightmare spell. I killed off the BBEG off screen with this spell and use it to communicate with anyone I need to across the world. Sleeper hit of a spell!

    • @ashtonh991
      @ashtonh991 2 года назад

      You killed off the BBEG using Dream? Legendary.

  • @EJFF.
    @EJFF. 5 месяцев назад

    Very insightful video as always. Also love the shirt Kelly!

  • @evansiegel5660
    @evansiegel5660 2 года назад +1

    One of my thoughts is that each school of magic has different fundamental structure. For example, spells of the evocation school would have different somatic or verbal components than illusion spells. Kind of like how different martial arts fighting styles have different stances. Like Kung-Fu looks different than Karate. So, Wall of Fire would have different fundamental casting movements or phrases than Major Image creating a Wall of Fire. Granted, it would still take someone knowledgeable in magic to understand the difference.

  • @steven9red
    @steven9red 2 года назад +1

    What annoys me with minor illusion is when I've tried to use it to have the noise of the enemy creature's cub in distress in the distance, and the creature flatly ignores it. No action. No investigation. No double takes. Just the creature knows it's an illusion. This is where it should be a very good spell, like others that I've mentioned before (cough true strike cough), but it's just not played well, and DM's aren't usually willing to give any ground with it. Right now, it's usually best for the fun at the table to just ditch the spell in favor of continuing to play with your friends.

  • @salamshalom
    @salamshalom 2 года назад +4

    Howdy there you Dudes of the Dungeons!

  • @MrVotiga
    @MrVotiga 2 года назад +2

    As an Arcane Trickster, I've been using Silent Image to trick the Gith we're fighting against. There is a Mind Flayer colony nearby that the Gith are warring with, so if we need a distraction I'll summon up a mind flayer with my illusions

  • @jackwriter1908
    @jackwriter1908 2 года назад +15

    I think the problem woth illusions for me was always that I got an idea and than wasn't sure if it was allowed and didn't want to talk 5 minutes with the DM about it, breaking the immersion...
    Illusions are one of the coolest things in magic systems, just because of all the possibilities you can use them, but in D&D it is kind of hard to point down some of the rules. Where they start, where they end and all that.

    • @adriel8498
      @adriel8498 2 года назад +5

      I'm playing an illusionist, It have been really fun. What I did was talking to my DM about the uses, limits ans every grey space outside the game time, so we had everything clear.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +2

      I just follow it RAW... It's pretty clear cut in what illusions can and cannot do.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +1

      @@Wintermute909
      That's true... In general about 5e.
      Still... At least online... The web version of Minor Illusion, Silent Image, and Major Image for 5e are clear cut.
      Minor Illusion's 1st Option (object) is a 5ft cube range that cannot move (as in moving positions on a grid map. Not animations/flavor.) and its 2nd Option (sound) begins at an origin location then it can spread that sound or music infinitely until you cast Minor Illusion again, if you end the Spell's effect, or if it gets effected by Dispel Magic etc... The Object option works with Full Cover.
      Silent Image can only create an object (or a non creature creature like corpses and fake creatures etc.) within a 120ft cube (I think, it could be less). And it requires one Action to make the illusion move (as in Feet, not animations for Flavor).
      Major Image is the same as Silent Image but it's range is a 220ft cube (I think) + you can add imagery (the 5 senses) to your illusions. However, it doesn't deal damage but gives you the sensations of taking damage etc.
      Of course... These three spells on its own (works with Full Cover) and have a Spell DC or physical interaction clause. While only Silent Image and Major Illusion are Concentration spells (I think) so be careful when combo-ing the spells with other concentration spells, like Banish into Major Image.
      (These are just for RP. Illusion spells are akin to Mage Hand. It's not that good in full on combat.)
      Fun Fact: In the rules... "Move" refers to the Movement in Feet mechanic. Not to animations, so your Minor Illusion can dance in place after casting it, but it cannot Move into another space. This same "Move" wording comes back in Silent Image and again, in Major Illusion.
      However, even though this is true, RAW. The DM might rule against it.

    • @JayAllenftw
      @JayAllenftw 2 года назад +2

      Talk to your DM BEFORE the session. Preferably anytime you come up with a new hairbrained idea on how to use illusions. I play a illusionist wizard/wild magic sorcerer and pretty much anytime I throw out something super new, my DM already knows all about it and is super excited to see it happen because we both know how it will and won’t work.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад

      @@JayAllenftw
      It's really Illusory Reality and Simulacrum that break the game, depending on the set up. But most campaigns will end at lv10 to lv15.
      For the most part, Illusions are not the best DPR or defence tactic to use. Outside of burning enemy action economy like their Reaction.
      RP wise... Illusion spells are fun to use, but it's a high skill gap to use effectively. Since creatures just have to spend their Object Interaction/Free Action for the second rule or to spend a full action for the first rule (against you Spell DC).

  • @tmannintendo
    @tmannintendo 2 года назад +1

    The DM in my game is awesome so far with me playing an illusion wizard. I took Misty Visions and I basically use it as a bigger minor illusion. My group had to hide from a kitchen knife wielding undead and I used Silent Image to make an illusion of a wall to hide behind in the dungeon. It knew we were in the hallway but couldn't find us, so it shrieked and tried to scare us out of our hiding spots. The DM just had us roll for a DC of 10 for Wisdom, so very low DC to pass, but I failed so my character gasped and we rolled initiative. The creature then stabbed him in the shoulder. It was a cool way for the monster to find us because it actually didn't know an illusion was there. The DM would just think how the creature would act in the world. On a side note I just imagine some enemies seeing a real Wall of Fire and being like "Don't worry guys it's an illusion!" and run into the Wall of Fire and regret it very much haha.

  • @kieffertucker
    @kieffertucker 2 года назад +1

    Great video! Would love to see this as a series covering more high concept topics.

  • @Typical7
    @Typical7 2 года назад +19

    one of my favorite uses is making a 5x5 crate in front of me to use as a full cover

    • @km1dash6
      @km1dash6 2 года назад +7

      Technically it doesn't block, so I would have the attackers make a check against the spell save DC to see if they perceive it as an illusion, but yeah, that is useful. You can also use it to hide, creating a barrel or blending into a cave wall.

    • @AndyReichert0
      @AndyReichert0 2 года назад +8

      @@km1dash6 1. while it doesn't "block" in the sense that it's physically impenetrable, it does provide full cover, meaning anything behind it cannot be targeted unless they regain line of sight.
      2. that's being the sus DM that Monty was talking about. you're going to have attackers forgo using their action to attack someone who isn't covered and instead assume that the crate is an illusion and use their action to investigate the crate? sure, there are ways to justify it, but if it comes across as punishing your players for having fun, then you're winning the battle to lose the war.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +3

      @@km1dash6
      Um actually... RAW... You could get away with 100% Cover under Illusion Magic because of how WotC wrote the rules.
      The same is said for 50% and 75% Cover but those rule wordings are debatable.

    • @Tehbestestevasss
      @Tehbestestevasss 2 года назад +5

      @@AndyReichert0 Agreed. The way I would personally handle it, if the player behind the crate is popping up to attack and ducking back down, I'd allow the creature to shoot back. if they miss, have a small chance it hits the illusion and goes through to give the creature an idea that it is an illusion. From there, even though they don't have sight and full cover comes into effect, have them target the illusion. I think it definitely should work, but I don't think it should be this infallible thing for an entire combat.

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад +2

      @@AndyReichert0
      And to add... "After casting an Illusion Spell"... All NPCs will perceive the illusion as a real thing unless (1) they saw you cast it,(2) they beat the Spell DC or physically interacted with it, or (3) simple logic of the current world that the campaign/setting is in... Among other ways to see through Illusions.
      It's not up to the DM to flat out ignore this... That's a red flag.

  • @taleg1
    @taleg1 2 года назад +1

    Illusions are good for trickery too, for example: A noise made with an illusion at the right time and place could, no would save your character's lives. One thing is to see through an illusion, hearing one is and should be a lot harder to disbelieve unless you can see the spell being cast.
    And one other thing, unless there is a reason for someone being able to detect illusions, how believable they are should affect others ability to see through it or detect it at all. A disbelief roll should only be allowed if they know that they are dealing with an illusion, though other rolls might apply to see if they do detect that something is amiss. Most DM, mishandles illusions a lot as they are way better than most think, just imagine how difficult it would be to see a fake 3D holographic wall, if the hologram looked real. Illusion or hologram it's basically the same thing, how easy they are to see through depends on how real they seem, and if there is no reason too suspect that what they are seeing, that illusion won't easily be seen through as they have no reason to disbelieve the illusion. But how good the illusion is, and how believable it is, that would matter. A character should have to detect that something was off, before a disbelieve roll should be allowed.

  • @criikette5000
    @criikette5000 Год назад

    one thing that I tried to get my DM to get on board with (as an illusionist) was to just describe my spell effects and have him interact "as appropriate". My idea was to sometimes cast illusion, and sometimes conjuration (for example). Like I create "a 20-foot-radius sphere of poisonous, yellow-green fog" but not tell him unless his creatures steps into it whether it was an illusion or cloudkill. He didn't seem to buy into the idea, but he was a very confrontational DM to begin with, which is why I didn't want to tell him "I cast an illusion" because he would metagame the monster's into already "knowing" it was an illusion.

  • @TheRobversion1
    @TheRobversion1 2 года назад

    my rule of thumb for investigating illusions as a DM is this:
    1. as long as the illusion doesn't seem to be out of place or nothing breaks it then i treat it as real (as specified by JC). my npcs or monsters wont investigate it because they think it's real.
    as for my fave illusion, it's got to be silent image via misty visions. i find this illusion to be underrated and still see people going after/touting darkness + devil sight when this produces the same/better benefits without costing a slot. perfect obscurement that can be setup outside of combat (thus not wasting your 1st action) is a very useful offensive/defensive tool. unless my concen is occupied, this is an invocation i always pick up for a ranged martial/ranged striker caster. lots of use outside of combat too.

  • @Hazel-xl8in
    @Hazel-xl8in 2 года назад

    someone should make a checklist for every neat trick heroes can do and how a person would respond to that. like, before you finish planning a social encounter, consider: do the npcs know what magic is? do they know about illusion magic? would they think (or be ordered to by someone who would) to check for illusions beforehand?
    other, not-illusion things to put here would be like “do they know about shapeshifting” “do they know about healing magic” “what languages might they know or have heard before” “can they recognize a fiend or would they call goblins demons” and then you can throw in idiosyncratic ones, like i would put “are they old enough to remember specific events that are extremely important in my game” and those kinds of things.

  • @ShadowDragonXXI
    @ShadowDragonXXI Год назад

    Just a thought, and correct me if this seems like a bad idea, but as a solution to the 'oh there's an illusionist let's check for illusions' perhaps have the target creature make a passive (no proficiency) arcane check to determine if they are suspicious of the illusion or if they just believe it and react accordingly. Creatures that don't use arcane magic would obviously score poorly and the illusionist would get the satisfaction of turning an entire group of enemies or creating confusion as a random individual who rolls particularly high suspects an illusion while the others are scrambling for safety or rushing to the attack. Conversely fellow spellcasters with high arcane scores would have a reason to suspect something as being 'off', such as the big angry monster not moving properly or disturbing the dust like it should or not smelling as foul as it appears, while still maintaining the possibility if they roll poorly that they might also be caught up in the illusion
    Obviously this is extremely simple and would need polish to work as a consistently reliable system

  • @robertb6889
    @robertb6889 2 года назад +1

    Perfect timing. I just made an illusionist wizard for a new D&D campaign.

  • @williamhackley8345
    @williamhackley8345 2 года назад

    Great video and fantastic points as always. Didn't absorb any of it because I was too distracted by Monty's dope sweater

  • @Comicsluvr
    @Comicsluvr Год назад

    A pretty good way to judge how powerful or effective a spell is is to keep track of how many times it shows up on 'most powerful' or 'most useful' lists. I see Hypnotic Pattern a LOT so it must be good. I like the fact that Illusions can be used in ways similar to Persuasion or Deception to learn important information without having to beat people up.

  • @Visteus
    @Visteus 2 года назад +4

    I still remember using Hallucinatory Terrain to turn a chunk of forest into a hidden mushroom base for the party to rest safely in. Good times

  • @Battleguild
    @Battleguild 2 года назад +1

    Some people also overlook the fact that Disguise Self doesn't become transparent when being discovered.
    Minor Illusion can cause enemies to pause by conjuring false Caltrops, a pit, or a false door. You can also use it to conjure a veil between you and a foe to block line of sight, allowing you to "disengage" from a character with Sentry.
    Magician's Box:
    (Minor Illusion + Misty Step)
    Conceal Held Object:
    (Disguise Self as yourself without the item.)
    You also might want to ask your DM on how spells look like when they're interacted with. Do they give a soft blue glow when touched or do they immediately become transparent?
    What if the illusion is that of a Fog Cloud? Do they discover it immediately upon entering it or will they only investigate it when they realize the fog isn't reacting to any creature's movement?

  • @jamiedorsey4167
    @jamiedorsey4167 2 года назад +2

    I like these sorts of general strategy videos.

  • @choobles2927
    @choobles2927 2 года назад +5

    One thing I’m curious about is what’s stopping people from using minor illusion to make an illusion of smoke in an area to obscure line of sight? And what would make enemies believe it’s not real smoke? It’s not like they wouldn’t expect attacks to go through it, so it shouldn’t disappear

    • @dilkertoquendo8219
      @dilkertoquendo8219 2 года назад +1

      I thought Minor Illusion stated that whatever you made was "obviously illusory"? Regardless though it should still be capable of blocking sight to a degree

    • @adriel8498
      @adriel8498 2 года назад +1

      minor illusion make an Object, and a cloud of smoke or gass isn't an object. Besides, minor illusion can't move so if you create a cloud, the smoke would be just a photography so physical interaction would still reveal that the cloud is fake.

    • @AssultTank
      @AssultTank 2 года назад +10

      @@dilkertoquendo8219 No, because honestly that would make it entirely useless. It's only obvious if physical interaction WOULD reveal it to be illusionary. Something like fog, which people would expect to be able to pass through, would be harder to detect.

    • @dilkertoquendo8219
      @dilkertoquendo8219 2 года назад

      @@AssultTank you are correct, I misread it

    • @absolstoryoffiction6615
      @absolstoryoffiction6615 2 года назад

      @@dilkertoquendo8219
      In regard to Minor Illusion... And every similar effect... "All illusions are seen to be real unless x/y/z happens." As in... Pass the Spell DC or get True Sight etc.
      Now... For Minor Illusion... You can cast False Fog but it cannot move and must be within a 5ft cube.
      Remember, if you casted False Fog, then only you know it to be an illusion. Other creatures still have to pass your Spell DC or physically interact with it, in order to discern it to be an illusion.
      And yes... Full Cover does apply with illusion spells. Half and 3/4ths Cover is DM Fiat since RAW was written poorly by WotC.