Minor Illusion Guide for D&D 5e
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Let's discuss the Minor Illusion cantrip. How do you use it in combat? What levels is it good at? Let's do some scenarios on a battlemap to illustrate.
For a transcript of this video, follow this link (Thanks to Adurnis): docs.google.co...
I would like to credit Helzod's excellent post on illusion for some ideas I used in this video. His post covers several illusion spells, including Minor Illusion. Here's a link: www.enworld.org...
Use Minor Illusion to create a topographical map, or a 3D rendering of the levels of a dungeon explored so far.
It's all fun & games until the DM uses the same trick against you.
@@Reoh0z Uhhh… In general that is a correct and valid response but in this case… Are you worried about the DM out cartography-ing you? No judgement just… interesting thing to worry about.
@@OverkillDM The DM's ethereal avatar being summoned and creating an incorrect map of the dungeon using Minor Illusion so they get lost. That's something I often worry about.
The map comes from your mind, so the map will look like how your character remembers it.
@@schwarzerritter5724 I can imagine in 3D. 😊
We use this primarily for RP and strategy purposes, "Here's a perfectly carved bust of our target." "Here's what the king sounds like." "Here's a 3D map with topography based on what I saw through my familiar's eyes, the enemies are Here, Here, aaaand Here" "This is what the creature we fought looked like." As a DM I'll sometimes run checks to see how accurate the caster can make it, but overall it's a handy tool and stays useful all the way through :)
Instead of a crate, I usually have my character make a rising up motion with their hands and make the illusion a 5 ft cube of whatever the ground is made of. Now it looks like I used something like Mold Earth or something to raise the ground up to create a wall.
Minor illusion is also a fun way to flair your caster. What kind of occluders do you use? Walls of bones? An impenetrable tangle of roses and thorns? Or, yes, a crate.
You sort of hinted at one of my favorite combinations, Silent Image plus (auditory) Minor Illusion, on a Warlock.
Being able to cast Silent Image at-will is an under-appreciated feature, especially when buffed up by auditory illusions. Silent Image can move, is larger and isn't limited to objects. Without Minor Illusion though, it's not nearly as strong.
Misty Visions is a lot of fun. Probably the best low level "cast at will" invocation
@@TreantmonksTemple the issue I've had playing it is that both silent image and minor illusion take actions, so dm would not let me sync the image and sound convincingly. You ever encounter this?
@@I..cast..fireball The spell states that when you cast it as a voice "The sound continues unabated throughout the duration, or you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends." I'd say that it works if you cast the cantrip first then on your next turn you cast the silent image, now you can use BOTH of them together since the minor illusion does NOT require concentration to keep the effect going after it being cast, and you can use the "you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends" part to synchronize the sound with the silent image while you control the silent image with your action.
@@khruler I agree with you. It's just not all DMs do. Mine says the discrete sounds need to be the same sound that I specified when cast. So I could yell "help" over and over again, but can not hold a conversation.
Problem is there are a lot of competing invocations to take. Like mask of many faces, voice of the chain master, agonizing blast, repelling blast, tomb of Levistus, eldritch mind. All arguably more important than silent image at will, which uses your concentration, so therefore you can't debuff the enemy with hex or cause fear (or better spells at higher spell slots)
Minor Illusion also means your Bard with Perfomance checks is their own 2 piece band.
I do that. Also use it to play victory music after a fight(Final Fantasy is my go to)
DROP THE BASE
Add holograms and pyrotechnics to finish too. Performance didn't get the reaction you wanted? Boost the applause noise toward the back of the room or sides.
My bards often like a big band sound. No need to limit the effect to one "instrument" I think, at least by RAW. A band is a sound, as is an orchestra. Listen to the sound of a recorded orchestra emitted by a single speaker. It's all just sound waves. A CD or MP3 doesn't have tracks for separate instruments like a recording studio. A single speaker can only make one sound at a time. The minor illusion spell says:
"... or you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends."
Sounds almost like the definition of music. Consider too, would you allow the sound of rats squeaking and scurrying? Bats flapping, people running, weapons clashing, an audience murmuring, or jingle bells on a horse. If any of those collective nouns are ok, then why not a band? The volume is limited to a lion's roar, but that's ok. YDMV - Your DM may vary.
Instead of waxworks or maniquines Cast it to make a suit of full plate striking a dynamic pose.
How about just a broom with a wig on top
How about a scary looking taxidermied animal?
Better yet, just make it a corpse - if someone sees a skeleton with a sword, they'll assume it's an undead.
I recently used minor illusion for something I thought was pretty clever. I wanted to prevent a player from getting counterspelled (I was doing a combat test) so I had them create a spot of cover, hide behind it, and then cast their spell while obscured by the illusion. Since the other caster couldn't see them, they couldn't counterspell them.
I haven't tried this tactic yet, but I'm waiting to get the chance. Cast fog cloud (preferably at a higher level to make a truly massive cloud). Then use minor illusion to duplicate the sounds of my party members in combat. I might be able to misdirect enemies who can't see their way through the fog.
That works in the imagination but not by raw rules. Fog cloud doesn't mean enemies don't know where the opponents are. They have to take the hide action.
@@jrg305 Imagine if you had no fog cloud, but used major image for an illusory duplicate of yourself. The enemy can see you right there, but they can also see the illusion and might go for it first. In the blindness of a fog cloud, an audio illusion would be good enough to act as that duplicate.
@@jrg305 It means they know where the opponents were. They don't know where they are.
I absolutely believe you could use fog cloud and then misdirect them through the fog until they come out the other side and find nothing. It's literally the magicians smoke trick, and figuratively done on steroids (since you hear your targets on the other side of the fog and don't realize it's an illusion till you pass through the fog.
An illusion of a wall with a loophole in it to see out of and fire arrows "through" could work for a player to hide behind for cover. Visually this makes sense to give an enemy attacker a visual disadvantage on the attack, but it would actually do nothing physically. So if the -5 to hit from 3/4 cover makes an attacker miss, it seems completely wrong, as an arrow would just go straight through the illusion.
This is addressed in the DMG page 272
HITTING COVER
When a ranged attack misses a target that has cover you can use this optional rule (yes I know this is an optional rule, keep reading) to determine whether the cover was struck by the attack. First, determine whether the attack roll would have hit the protected target without cover. If the attack roll falls within a range low enough to miss the target but high enough to strike the target if there had been no cover, the object used for cover is struck.
With that said, if the object being struck is an illusion it would not be struck and it would just hit the person hiding behind illusionary cover. As a player I want so much to use Minor Illusion to allow my Gloomstalker Echo Knight to hide behind an illusionary bush will hit arrows all come out of his echo somewhere else. As a DM Minor Illusion will never give an AC bonus for cover, only a visual advantage or disadvantage.
Chris, I was wondering how do you feel about this? My thought was an enemy attacker would have disadvantage from visual obscurement , but the player behind the illusionary cover would not receive any bonus to AC because the cover is just an illusion. Once the enemy hits the player, they would see through the illusion and no longer have disadvantage.
Additionally, I don't think an Echo Knight who is concealed, using a bow but having the arrow come from it's Echo should have it's position reveled. I know this would be very overpowered being able to attack with advantage every turn, but logically there is no reason there position would be compromised.
After the paladin dropped and the fighter drug her out of a room filled with baddies, my gnome warlock brought up the rear by retreating down a hallway and yelling “WALL OF POISON THORNS!” And used minor illusion to create a thorny bush. It not only granted cover but it served as an obstacle. Out of combat, he was constantly casting minor illusions to help illustrate his stories. I colored it as “paintings” he would create that hovered in the air, or small figurines on a board. The group called them my “PowerPoint” presentations :)
If you're fighting an enemy with Counterspell, could you create an illusion of your own voice casting the verbal component of a high-level spell to try to trick them to waste their spell slots?
Thats fucking cruel
@@DAEDRICDUKE1 It's chaotic neutral :)
"Sure. Make a Deception/Performance check to lip-synch with your spell's sounds."
Counterspell specifies that you take the reaction when you see a creature casting a spell, so a strict raw reading means that they can't blow a counterspell since your minor illusion has already resolved
@@veras7927 Or when you HEAR it.
You must be aware of a spell being CAST.
Deception should suffice, but minor illusion will let you roll with advantage.
I have to confess. My kenku illusionist is exactly 5ft tall so he can walk inside his minor illusions which have a max height of 5ft as well.
Now that's great! Hide inside it like a box and suddenly you have advantage.
Another strange thing with RAW for minor illusion creating creatures. It technically can't create a creature but I can create a corpse of a creature, and say that corpse is of a creature that just freshly died of poison or something indistinguishable from the outside, now they look identical to a creature but technically aren't.
No need for wax or stone versions of creatures now.
Minor Illusion is something that is quite good for a Rogue to nab, and it's worth it for a Magic Initiate choice even at higher levels. Letting the rogue book it and use illusions to disappear is a good way to survive long enough to heal up or set up an ambush even at higher levels. Getting advantage on someone when they aren't expecting it can be a nasty way to play some games there.
And I've found that a better option for a minor illusion to have a target pop up for someone is a suit of full plate armor or a floating weapon, animated objects are common enough that they can be a scary thing.
Great guide! These subtle different ways you can use spells it abilities it's what I like in every system.
You should note that Intelligence is a monster dump stat, as is proficiency in investigation. Thus the chance for the foe to fail the check only gets better with your prof and Int. A CR 15 monster will likely have a 13 Int (+1) vs your DC 18.
I've recently started using minor Illusion to create a stylish and taller version of myself in a pose behind me during introductions.
You can only make objects but that’s funny, I’d allow it.
@kevinelston404 yeah, I told my DM it was a semi lifelike wax statue that resembles a Jojo's stand
Also theme music is a use for minor illusion (i.e. after battle music from FF7 after an encounter)
That’s pretty good
Great video! I play a Shadow Monk and have been using Minor Illusion mainly for playing pranks and giving other characters exact visuals of things I've seen, but I dramatically underestimated the combat potential of this spell!
The caster only needs to move 5 feet up or down to have line of sight on the target unless they used the hide action. The image would provide cover against ranged attacks in that scenerio, which is +5 to ac. The Dmg covers this on the chapter 'running on a grid' .
Create a wall with 3 sides around the party member. Problem solved.
your point that minor illusion at higher levels loses its "scaling" or effectiveness doesn't seem to make sense. True it doesn't do more, and your enemies might be more clever or have alternate senses, but against lets say high level grog like characters, it should still do what it has always done.
That's true. I guess you could say it scales with the enemies it affects.
The point being that it affects less and less enemies,
Because of their better stats and abilities.
So in a way it does lose effectiveness.
I agree about scaling. It's arguably the most powerful cantrip. It's undeniably the most utilitarian and versatile from the standpoint of battlefield control. However, it's more about the caster's thoughtfulness and the DM's interpretation that can make it so good, especially at higher levels.
I think the idea behind it being less effective is more along the lines that you will simply generally have better options to choose from the higher level you get. The kind of granular advantages that it can give you at a low level are great when you can't deal much more than 5 or 6 damage, but when your spells are dealing significantly more damage, those granular advantages start to lose their luster. The spell still does what it's meant to do, but you're using an action you could instead be using to kill a bad guy. It definitely depends on the situation.
@@rageoftyrael totally agree with this. In combat, not your best move. I guess was thinking of getting the drop on enemies and preserving spell slots, especially when resting is dicey. As a cantrip, it's always in your back pocket. It still has so much utility, but I haven't used it at higher levels to give a fair review.
I mostly use Minor Illusion to mimic fireballs in front of a Target's face or, when shopping, have an arrow point down toward my 2'7" forest gnome when the salesman can't see me over the counter.
That's amazing.
How would it mimic a fireball? It's a single static object, whereas a fireball is a moving, dynamic explosion...
@@LeMayJoseph It's a psych out to cause a panicked reaction. Nothing says it's static, it's just in a 5' cube, so a fireball appearing 5' in front of the target and ending in its face should be startling.
@@robinthrush9672 nothing says its static, but other illusion spells say that the illusion can move. Therefore, since minor illusion doesn't say it can move, it can't move
Also, fireball isn't an object. Minor illusion can only create objects
@@crownlexicon5225 Other illusion spells say that they can be moved "to another location", meaning outside the 5' cube Minor Illusion is stuck in. The only part that moderately supports you here is that "it can be altered to appear to move to that location naturally". Spells usually say what they "can't" do and things not specified are up to the DM at worst. Minor Illusion says an image can't create light, sound, smell, or be touched and other non-offensive illusions that can create sensory effect like heat or cold can't produce them strong enough to cause harm.
Fireball IS an object; it's just produced by magic. It can be seen and it can be touched, especially when it explodes. And I've seen people create real-life fireballs, which would be object regardless of some sort of "if it's magic, it's not an object" loop hole.
Would you also do a guide on fog cloud, or really control spells in general? I have some trouble imagining how would you use something like a fog cloud consistently to a great effect, since enemies can still run trough it and it blocks vision both ways, so it's not like you can get a free shot at them.
Yes, I won't do battlefield in general, it's too big a topic and the video would be too long. Fog Cloud I will definitely tackle, likely within the next month or two (it's on my short list already)
One thing I have started using minor illusion for is what I nicknamed the MOM map it is me using a familiar to scout then projecting a minor illusion for a map to show a map or hallowgram. Another way I have used it is to cause a glow effect on me during an interrogation to intimidate
Also useful outside combat. Showing maps, people & monsters, recorded messages, marking traps for others (there's your help action!). Used in bardic performances to show still screens of the scenes your describing or singing about.
I've been using Minor Illusion to create an open top spiked metal bared cage around one medium or smaller enemy. I made it spiked so creatures would think twice before interacting with it.
The DM has been rolling Investigations against it. Am I using the spell properly?
Technically the enemy could use their free interaction with an object to automatically reveal it as an illusion.
@@TreantmonksTemple My thoughts were two things.
1. Maybe the spikes would help against that?
2. Do all creatures in the world check if everything is real by interacting with it? If I cast stone wall or something, would creatures use their interaction to go around it? It seems like a fine line between the DM knowing that, that is an illusion spell so NPCs always interact with it to make sure it's fake and the DM knowing it's an actual spell so NPCs never check.
@@ashmit8268
1: maybe, that's really up to the DM
2: I agree, and talk about that in the video
@@TreantmonksTemple I literally paused the video just before you talked about that, haha. Sorry about that. Thanks for the responses, I appreciate the info!
I think a good rule would be to automatically make a die roll with any creature who has a passive investigation higher than your save DC. For all others, they would need a reason to interact with the illusion.
I feel like making illlusory terrain will almost always be useful to break LoS. A sorcerer can use Quicken to cast a levelled spell as well as make cover with Minor Illusion all the way to endgame
Here's a three part combo I came up with, though it does require a 10th level wizard: Glyph of Warding (upcast to 5th level). Effect, Spell Glyph: Wall of Force (5th level spell) creating a hemispherical dome. part three, Minor Illusion of something the target wants.
Here's an example of this in action: A local Baron has overheard rumors that a group of adventurers are out for his head. He's worried but his court mage has an Idea (See setup above) The Illusion in this case would be the shape of someone lying in the Baron's bed. When the assassins approach the trap is sprung, sealing them inside the dome created by the Wall of Force. The Wizard drop the Illusion on the bed, to instead create the sound of an alarm bell.
Very interesting video!
I think some GMs might see these tactics as exploitative, but this is really fun, and fits excellently with an arcane trickster type :)
As a DM, I would love my players to use Minor Illusion this way. Makes for an extremely fun game :)
Based on the fact that the Shadow Monk gets the Minor Illusion cantrip - I think these are just the expected tactics to use the cantrip for.
How about making a rock or bush appear in your own space when nobody is looking. As long as you don't interact with it. A good way for a scout to find cover.
Even better yet: A crate that moves with you crouching inside.
"Aqua Mamba..."
Unfotunately, the illusion can't move.
@@CallenExile Technically, it can, if your character was to just spam the cantrip; creating a new image just a little further away every time.
Not an option in combat, of course.
It wouldn't look like it was moving though, you'd be completely visible between castings. Play a warlock and take misty visions if you want to do this legit.
@@CallenExile If you are spotted moving from place to place, especially with a box around you, you're not playing Metal G- I mean Rogue right anyway.
As a DM. They make a wax figure behind them. They turn around and make a DC 10 Wisdom save. If they pass it's an illusion otherwise they might attack it or back away or do something else.
it's an investigation check against the PC spell save? just making up your own rules to punish creativity i see. sound like Mercer lol
It's worth noting that these crates/walls can only be maximum 5 ft tall, so you have to demean yourself a bit by staying hunched over if you want to count as unseen behind one. If you're showing over the top, I don't know how I'd rule it. Maybe cover, except that cover reflects not only the difficulty in aiming at a small part of the target but also the effect of the physical object blocking the attack. Maybe a 50/50 to decide if they miss high (and miss) or miss low (and hit, if they'd hit your non-cover AC)? That's starting to be too cumbersome.
Somewhat connected: for your L-wall idea to give the fighter advantage for being unseen in front of the attacker, the fighter would have to find some way of interacting with it without the enemies seeing, or else the fighter can't see his target. Maybe a big red button on his side of the wall? If the fighter peeks over the 5-ft wall, he's not unseen any more, right? This starts to get into my issues with the ambiguity of when being "unseen" breaks.
This isn't an issue for dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and any other shorter races in the other books. 👍
Besides, even if it's just acting as cover instead of full concealment, that still has its own benefit that wasn't there before.
Cover and concealment are similar ideas, but are very distinct. Concealment is still more helpful that just being out in the open, even if it doesn't actually provide a physical wall of protection to the user.
The fighter can use a free action to interact with the object if history with this tactic isn't enough to understand that it's an illusion.
Static image of an empty hallway in front of guards. They have no reason to check and the party can walk past
Too big
I cast a Minor Illusion of a 3 sided box put over me, an enemy is in front of me, I touch the inside back wall to reveal to myself that it's an illusion, I sit inside and cast spells to mess with the enemy's mind but don't visibly go through the box and they leave me alone because they think I'm trapped inside a box and they're just not having a good mental health day...Solid Snake Bard.
If they investigate and fail their save (very likely since my bard has a 17 in Charisma) and they walk away from me...boom, illusion fails, but I get an attack of opportunity with advantage due to element of surprise. Heck, if you needed to convince anyone to do nearly anything, incept them, inside their mind have a shopkeep's own voice suggest that he should give your party cheaper items. Quite literally be the devil or angel on his shoulder.
chill touch doesnt originate from your character and its an attack roll, so you might be able get advantage without revealing the illusion.
Question: BY RAW. Could a small PC/creature that knows of the minor illusion of a (5x5 cubed rock) be able to attack with ADV from behind the illusion ? For 1 attack right ? Provided that the target is unaware of the small attacker (therefore the PC is treated as an unseen attacker). Is that right ?
I see no reason why not.
I mean, as a Wizard you can use your familiar to do that anyway by giving that small PC the help action.
So guidance you have to touch the person too. So I say the power of lathander compels you... Every single time.
As a cantrip Minor Illusion can still be useful at higher levels for when you have already cast a spell using a minor action during the current turn. For example, maybe you could cast the crate to block line of sight, then Misty Step to another location that is itself also out of sight. Now your enemies believe you are behind the crate, perhaps baiting out some powerful abilities or spells. As an illusionist you could potentially also make the sound of a powerful spell being cast from inside the box on a subsequent turn to further confuse your enemies.
I'd say for Shadow Monks, this video is awesome. Since they don't necessarily damage spike all the time, I like the idea of giving a companion advantage, or a "smoke bomb" to hide them xD
Or even just for the stealth applications, it ought to keep the same utility throughout levels
My gnome loves using it as a practical joke machine... whoopee cushions everyone someone takes a step... or the sound of a braying jackass whenever someone goes to talk...
I think this is a bit too much combat focused. The best uses of minor illusion are outside of combat, for example to enable con games, etc. Still a good Video.
The use of this spell outside of combat is limited by little more than your imagination. In combat, there's only so much you can do that will be effective, and I think making a video to help people effectively use this in combat is way more useful than listing off a bunch of random things you could do with this outside of combat. Though, not everyone has a quick imagination, so a video giving some ideas for it's use outside of combat wouldn't be bad either.
@@rageoftyrael I agree. Especially when you're on the other side of the screen. This video helped me to understand how to play the bad guys when a illusion is in play.
A question: what if I cast the spell on a moving cart? does the illusion moves with the cart?
Good question. I talk about that a bit in my Wizard Subclasses vid. My answer is if I'm the DM, yes, but officially, I dunno.
@@TreantmonksTemple Many thanx, with your answer I'm gonna talk to my master.
@@TreantmonksTemple and what if your campaign has planets revolving around a sun does magic that target an area move at thousands of miles per hour
The return of roll20 strategy! Love it.
I'll be using on my arcane trickster to hide in the middle of a fight in the open field, using cunning action
Create wall, which blocks sight, hide, then move.
Or create a wall at range, which then blocks sight, and attack through the wall next turn with advantage for sneak attack.
Uses will be limited, but still could be situationally good for sure.
I also want to use in the markets, to make missing things less obvious.
Cast on an object I intend to steal, overlapping the real with the illusion.
Slight of hand to palm the object without notice.
Object still appears to be there, for a minute longer.
My favorite cantrip is Prestidigitation. It's not my most useful, mind. But it's the best atmospheric & RPing cantrip.
Plus if you go into icky sewers it's really handy.
Minor Illusion is arguably more useful plus is a great backup atmospheric & RPing cantrip.
Lol, yes, post sewer clean-up is a chore. I always say that prestidigitation is the cantrip I would want in real life.
You laid out the benefits of minor illusion very well. At the end you said it got less useful. I am confused by that. Why wouldn't those benefits persist at every level?
If I have any comrades who focus on ranged attacks, then wouldn't building them something to hide behind always be useful? What are some examples of the ability being less useful at higher levels? (Mechanically, I want to know ways this ability becomes less useful)
I don't think it mechanically gets less useful, just that the other options are more powerful. Like sure you could cast minor illusion to give your ranged ally advantage on one attack, or you could cast psychic lance or transmute rock and knock out one more enemies turns.
Does the interaction with the illusion have to be physical touch? Couldn't the enemy spellcaster just cast a simple spell like magic missile or a simple damage cantrip against the suspected illusion? If the magic missile or firebolt just goes through the create isn't that a confirmation that it's an illusion? Yes it's wasting a turn doing so but it confirms the illusion thereby negating the effects.
7 minutes in and I just realized they are MAY-LAY (melee) characters.... I was wondering why it was important for him to tell us that these characters were malaysian..was like "umm ok?"
In regards to scaling with lvls, the minor illusion would still be great to block line of sight. At higher lvls, the opponents could assume it was a wall spell. As a DM i would allow/encourage continuous use of the minor illusion in higher lvls.
I thought that interacting with an object costs an action.
Nope
@@TreantmonksTemple Yeah, right there in the PHB under combat. "You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action." That's REALLY good to know.
@@joalexander103 By interact you mean PUSH a lever, BREAK something or just 'LOOK'?
@@lucasbrumdeazambuja9740 no disrespect, but this was 10 months ago.
jo alexander sorry for bad english but i really dont know what you mean by interact, can i pull a lever and attack or pulling a lever is considered one action?
Most optomized use is Minor Illusion a chair and squat on it to build leg strength.
Great video. This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
A question on creating obstacles to the LOS to your character. If you minor illusioned a crate, or boulder in front of your character, wouldn't everyone who was looking at you know it was an illusion since it just appeared in front of you? What's the point of it then?
Suspecting it to be an illusion and confirming it is an illusion through an investigation roll or interact with an object are not the same thing.
Also consider the enemies might already be distracted with direct combat and not notice.
If you're at the edge of a forest, for example, and minor illusion a big old stump in front of you, it's more likely to not stand out as it's just part of another tree. 👍
For the house example in the video, I might've gone with something like a piece of furniture instead that blends in with the surroundings.
Or even a partial wall that matches the rest of the interior. Like it's always been there. Better yet, a borderless 'mirror' that projects an image of your space if you weren't there, making it look like YOU disappeared instead with invisibility. 😄
Summoning objects isn't unheard of. . . unless your hiding just make gregarious motions with your hands as you cast to make them believe your doing something significant and have the obstruction appear.
Okay, so a five-by-five-by-five-foot crate would create cover (3/4 cover, I'd say, the best you can get), but unless you're a halfling, gnome, or (possibly) dwarf illusionist, it's not going to block line of sight unless you choose to go prone ... which is not necessarily a bad idea since you can attack on later turns by using half your movement to spring up and (I would say, if I were the DM) half your movement to drop again after attacking. This is great even if the DM is thinking tactically and has both the enemy spellcaster and at least one of the two archers prepare actions to attack when you reappear, because you'll still have 3/4 cover ... though the archers might want to concentrate on the bard or the more immediately threatening paladin and cleric.
The only weakness in your thinking, I believe, is that this all falls apart if the spellcaster chooses to cast an attack cantrip like Fire Bolt at the illusory crate to destroy it, because then a *PHYSICALLY REAL* bolt of fire created by the spellcaster interacts with the illusory object.
I also love the idea of using minor illusion to hide an archery rogue for sneak attack. I just wonder ... RAW, does a member of the party interacting physically with the illusory object reveal to ENEMIES, too, that it's illusory? The text is unclear here, but I think it might ... which would mean that the "wall of ice" example you gave wouldn't work, because as soon as the paladin interacted with it to allow itself to attack through it, the enemy spellcaster would see through the illusion as well.
Also, as regards higher-level campaigns, you *DO* need to consider the possibility that, even if a "campaign" ends at level 5, the DM might want to continue with the same characters, in the same world, but with either home brew or *other adventures in the same setting.* Luckily, the latest addition to (general) D&D lore (Tasha's Cauldron) allow us to avoid that conundrum by switching out Minor Illusion if we ever consider it to have outlived its usefulness ...
Great video! I may forward this to my bard player. :)
Only one problem - you said they may have no choice but to attack with cover/disad. OR, one of the archers just shoots the crate, and ends the illusion... of course, as you note, this assumes they have an inkling that it’s illusory...
legit took me a minute to understand that you were saying "melee" and not "mah lay" i was like "wth is a mah lay character?"
One thing I allow for Minor Illusion is to allow it to sometimes be used as a help action in combat. Yes, you can't create a creature, but you sure can create the sound of one. An intelligent creature, like a goblin or guard that hears "BACKSTAB!" from just behind them is sure to flinch and maybe take their focus off the enemy in front of them. I tend to allow this with a Deception roll so as to not make it too easy, and the same enemy is unlikely to fall for it twice. Can it be used to give your Rogue or Paladin ally advantage for an important attack once in a combat encounter? Absolutely.
Minor illusion in combat can work as a poor man’s darkness spell as well, cast a black box on the enemy’s square and for a round the creature is effectively blinded, it can’t see other creatures outside the box if creatures react with the box they can see the creature inside and attack with advantage, the creature inside would have disadvantage vs effects it can’t see until it reacted with the box.
The creature is interacting with the box and can therefore see through it.
If the box was hollow and surrounded the square I would rule the blinded condition until the creature’s next turn when it can interact with the square
@@georgequilitz8530 you can make it for most things where they aren't directly touching it till they move which should last till their turn. of course if they are tall they can see a bit around their feet
If all of a sudden I couldn't see I'd either reach out to feel my surroundings which would dispel the effect and/or move 5'. I'd say a mook would be no different. Either way this wouldn't have the desired effect. At worst they'd use 5' of movement.
Why don't you cast illusion of big shield (5x5 ft) with tiny firing-hole inside. You can shoot through the hole for whole minute, enemies woun't see you, so you have advantage and if they try to attack you, they will have disadvantage - but who sane would try to shoot small hole, when there are more valid targets.
Minor Illusion + sleight of hand in a tavern is money. Agree with the comments that the most excellent uses for Minor Illusion have nothing to do with combat.
The only thing about obscure is that minor illusion creates at most a 5' x 5' x 5' cube. Meaning, it's only 5 feet tall. Most PCs are taller. A DM could rule that you only have 3/4th cover, or force you to duck down (and on the next turn, half of your movement to stand, and possibly be the target of a held action).
I think that because the spell is only a cantrip, and people have a tendency to overly abuse it, DMs may find ways of overcoming these situations, or applying a situational drawback to it's use.
Also interacting with an object (or use object) is an action, not a free action. So, if your own party members interact with your illusion, they are doing this at the cost of an attack.
"Use an object" requires an action, "Interact with an object" is done in tandem with an action and movement as per PHB. Personally, I'm 6'2", and I am very confident I can hide behind a 5x5x5 object without falling prone. I could see maybe if your character is a Firbolg or a bugbear or something...
The player doesn't need to go entirely prone imo, they can simply crouch, duck, slouch or what have you
but what about this part, "If a creature uses its action to examine the sound or image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature." if a creature can just use a free action to interact with the image why is this line in the description? so is it a free action or does it take the creatures action, can't be both.
To item interact with an object you have to actually go touch it or physically interact with it. You can inspect it from a distance trying to determine if it's an illusion.
What treefire said, but also note that it does not state that the investigation or interacting with it are the only ways to discern it for what it is. If a creature knows it is an illusion, it can still see through it, no checks on interaction required. However, that's a double edged sword: just doubting it's real is not enough. Also knowing that knowing it's fake makes it faint can cause creatures to doubt themselves when they doubt it's real.
I'm sorry but half of the video is wrong... There are are A LOT of incorrect ideas here.
1. The cantrip effects only a 5feet area, not enough to automatically "hide" a Medium creature. So the opportunity attacks still happen as they aim for, say, your head. This works only if you're Small-Sized or (if the DM allows) against a Small enemy like a goblin or even a wolf.
2. Having a 5 feet box in front of you doesn't mean you're hidden. You have a bonus on your AC, but if you want that juicy Advantage on Attack Rolls you have to use the Hide Action first, gaining Advantage on the next turn unless you're a Rogue or Small Sized.
"What about crouching?"
There is not a crouched status in DnD as its benefits are automatically applied, regardless if you say you're crouching or not - similar to shields - depending on how much of your body that object can cover.
Half-body? Half cover, +2 AC.
Three-quarters? +5 AC.
Fully covered? You can't be targeted, but you're not Hidden and enemies know you're behind that bush.
"But if I crouch MORE I can fully Hide behind a 5ft object!"
Yes, if you do it carefully.
And that's a Hide Action, that requires a whole action as described earlier.
(You can drop prone but you'll lose the Advantage)
So no, much of this video Is based on incorrect assumptions and house rules.
At 9th level, you get animate objects. Use minor illusion to give either the 10 coins obscurement, or if the blindsense of the objects sees through illusions, you can obscure the enemy. This will give advantage/disadvantage for all your animated objects. An obscured enemy may need a new cantrip each round BUT an obscured zone may need a hide roll (advantage) each round by each object.
Common misunderstanding, but "Melee" is usually pronounced "MAY-lay". I usually don't kibitz that,
but for 15 minutes I thought his example characters were Malaysian because I thought he was saying "Malai".
Great video and great job describing my favourite cantrip!! There is just one thing our DM and me are always discussing.. imagine a combat as an arcane trickster rogue, I created a crate next to the enemy boss. At the beginning of my turn I am behind the crate, so that the boss cant see me. Now in my turn I move around the crate to the boss and hit him from the side as my action.. would I have adventage here or not? Since Im hidden behind the crate it is kind of an suprise, isnt it? that would be a great way to get sneak attack every turn, of course combined with the mobile feat or cunning action to disengage and move back to the crate. Thanks in Advance!
Minor illusion is ok it has some good uses but, Silent image is better because minor illusion limits you especially visually by only allowing an object where silent image gives you way more leeway with creating more useful visuals.
That said, minor illusion comes into its own by combining this with silent image. So let's say our halfling thief is being chased by a constable. So we have the wizard first create a minor illusion of the sound of a crackling fire in the fireplace. Then he creates an illusionary copy of the wall and a visual representation of a roaring fire in said fireplace.While we could also have done the same but just depicting an empty fire place however, a guard might actually check up the flu thereby breaking the illusion but, Noone would suspect something if there's a fire going. So I like it's use but I think silent image is they way to go for creating the visual image aspect of your illusion and use minor illusion for auditory ambiance.
Another use would be to project the voice of their leader (if you've heard it) outside calling for a retreat. Or, a five foot square smack dab in the middle of the enemies of creepy, distracting whispers.
Maybe a kind DM would give them disadvantage on attacks or whatever. 👍
Creating an illusion of a crate, walls appearing out of nowhere automatically should trigger spell checks against DC from enemies at that point because it appeared out of nowhere. They have a spell caster on their side of the field it's entirely within reason for him to know no low level spells exist that do this.
Casters usually train at schools of magic who's to say they don't see other wizards casting higher level spells. At the very least should you not roll an arcana check?
I'm really not grasping your logic here, on the one hand you argue that creating a mirror with a fixed image breaks the illusion then you turn around and make crates and walls appear outa the ether this counterdicts what you just argued. I mean what low level spell allows you to create a crate large enough to obfuscate members of the party? You want to simulate Maximilians earthen grasp thats reasonable opposing caster is more than likely familiar with the spell.
I could at least get behind your argument if you were casting illuisions of walls of stone, ice, sand, force, even water because the enemy wizard could make a rationalization that oh shit this caster is out of my league being familiar with the arcane and knowledge of spells and knowing that summoning like this can be done at higher levels. Hell the rest of the party could rollplay this up by yelling hey just fireball these weaklings to aid in the bluff.
It would be completely different if you manifested said illusions before they came into the room this is perfectly valid. Once in the room everyone knows no crate was there a second ago yet now a crate magically shows up is gonna be suspicious and checks need to be made regardless whether physical interactions occurred with illusion or not.
Treantmonk ... treantmonk.. wait, I remember reading your posts. Oh hell yeah. Thank you, algorithm!
By the way great video for a GM. I have been struggling on how to handle illusion spells especially minor illusion for the GM side of the screen
the crate / ice wall are GREAT ideas...except one major issue...the crate/wall is only 5 feet tall..so UNLESS you shorter than 5 feet OR you go prone, you will not be fully obscured. SMALL RACES FTW! (RAW, since there is no option to crouch down and walk)
Minor illusion blocks line of sight, but it blocks it both ways, so it's like combat in complete darkness, advantage and disadvantage cancel out
Take the feat magic initiate and the cantrips Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation
My DM said I cannot use it like you suggested because I’m taller than 5ft.
I’m playing a gnome in this game, so, it should work.
Nice work. Good uses for a minor spell.
where are your eyebrows
The crate doesn’t make any sense to me. If they’re in the room and a crate just appears on the middle of nowhere. I think the illusions broken right out of the gate.
What are your opinions on prestidigitation vs minor illusion? Prestidigitation is usually my go-to cantrip whenever I play a caster, but I want to know why you think that minor illusion would be more practical.
don't you need a line of sight to make the wax halfling appear behind the enemy wizard? aren't all the people in melee blocking the view?
So you can create a crate, go inside it during the combat and the guards will be "huh? where did he go?". Ergo, you just made the Solid Snake caster.
Keep in mind that walls or crates made with minor illusion can't be taller than 5 ft. Most medium or larger creatures' will be able to see right over that.
The furniture on the battle map are so huge, the table takes the same place as 3-4 beds moved next to each other
regarding hiding behind or inside the minor illusion box. It's only a 5 foot cube. It only hides them if they are kneeling inside/behind them. Most characters are taller than 5 foot, and unless the player communicates the plan ahead of time for the party to be kneeling at every turn, this strategy isn't working.
Serious question. Around 15:40 you talk about creating an illusion of something for the enemies to target or be intimidated by. This led me to come up with the simple (but possibly effective) idea of casting to create a tiger behind one of the enemies, and yelling out (as my free action) "Watch out, there's a tiger behind the kobolds!" Obviously the kobolds (enemies) would turn to face the new threat. However, lets say for one reason or another that the kobolds don't face the target, or poorly roll and are not able to interact with the target. Unless there was prior agreement from the party, would they not also assume the illusion was real? What would prevent the paladin as example from focusing his attacks on the illusion ghost that spawns next to him and a kobold. Are party members simply immune from the party's illusion? Would this also apply to enemies (enemy spellcaster casts illusion, and his party members are immune, even if it was not agreed to prior to combat)?
I think you give players in the party the benefit of the doubt that they know their Wizards tricks and knows this tactic has worked in the past
9/10 doctors are doctors
1/10 doctors are also doctors
9/10 Doctors think a walk sounds great.
The 10th doesn't want to go.
Doctor Who fans get it.
Treantmonk's Temple hahaha
Wouldn't they still see you if you are a medium size creature? As the box or wall can be no taller than 5ft.
Shouldn't the fact that the crate just appeared there after you casted a spell reveal it as an illusion to everyone?
Could be summoned - isn't there a conjuration school ability that does that? Your enemy may suspect it's an illusion, but he doesn't know for sure...
I mean, it scales inasmuch as the save DC goes up with Proficiency Bonus.
Why couldn't the enemy spell caster see the bard or sorcerer? Are they both under 5' tall?
Minor illusion maps that the dm shares for a minute (or however long)
If someone knows spells, sees you cast this. Would they not know its an illusion? So they would see through it? As such it could not protect you from being targeted?
I cast the Minor Illusion of a banshee's scream next to the Spellcaster's ear, then cast Enlarge on the Paladin
If you play a forest gnome, you'll get to use this no matter what class you play. 👍 Fun times.
Wanted your opinion on the use of this spell and similar ones.
How do you feel about having the illusion cast over top an allied target to obsurce them...but it should immediately be obvious to them its an illusion because they interact with it as it's cast?
If I was the DM I would allow that.
Thanks for the input. Great video. Been waiting for more illusion stuff from you. You got me playing a god wizard illusionist. I like your viewpoints. ^.^
I have used it in RP to create a sign above and behind someone's head "He's lying" or silently to direct party using an arrow that they can see but opponents can't. Also used to create effectively psychic paper like in Doctor Who .. risks discovery.. but a scroll can be flourished (then cast cantrip to create correct words/ wax seal) and then put away before guard can study too intently.
Always find the people who say "no" to any interesting use of minor illusion are the same DM's who will go "All of a sudden a box appears in front of the wizard. Ranger's turn next...he shoots an arrow at the newly appearing box and it goes right through and straight at you. Does 18 hit? No, no disadvantage."
You can only make objects with minor illusion... Could you make a puppet like a marionette and get it to move?
Can a minor illusion be "big enough" to cover an adventurer?? I thought it gave you 1/2 cover, not total
I doesn't provide cover at all, but it can block line of sight. A Minor illusion is 5'x5'x5', so as long as your PC is medium sized, they should be able to block line of sight, though they may need to duck slightly.
@@TreantmonksTemple I have a really boring Dungeon master and he won't let me use this... he's opinion is that a medium character is 7' so I can't cover myself.
If I want to cast it the enemy will hit my illusion and pass through it hitting me instead.
I want a new open minded master....
@@jhonnywick3637 Yep, a DM can nerf anything with house rules. It's unfortunate when a DM thinks that making things less fun for players is part of their job.
You can understand me
@@jhonnywick3637 Yeah, that sucks. What about other people taking turns DMing? You can't be the only one frusturated.
I think you missed some uses of this spell. First you can make an image, and the image has high fidelty as to require close inspection to differentate it from real. So a map once seen can be reproduced. A criminal once seen, a picture or statue of them can be reproduced...including implications of an activity like a crime... so showing a figure killing another figure or stealing, along with deception rolls could be employed.
Really neat uses, however, the showing of a figure killing another figure would have to be still framed as the figure can't move.
Minor illusion combined with keen mind to memorize maps definitely makes for a sad dm.
Without the keen mind feat, you're going to be limited by normal memory. You can't illusion a map more accurate than one you could draw.
You could probably illusion a person better than you could draw, because drawing faces is harder than recognizing faces.