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And further proof that Autopilot is not self driving...its just an assist...as long as responsibility rests at all with an owner...it isn't self driving...
I was definitely thinking the same things about enabling the camera, I wasn't thinking though about the liability of choosing to hit that button, something to think about for the future. Awesome video, thanks for letting everyone know this!
So you own a Tesla, Tesla gets to use the data from the camera to improve vehicle safety, next Tesla models or your current one gets an update that improves your vehicle. That does help you. Sure the counter to that is privacy, but you pass by speed cameras that take your photo anyway, and you already have a microphone in the car. Not to mention your phone has cameras and a microphone that sees you every time you use it. Your image and data is already out there sold and shared, the questions to ask are how will it be used and who do you trust to have it.
@@Albanianator yeah, but we still should be able to access to it easily as if we wished to share a footage- so, it shouldn’t be only tesla access to it. If they have access to it, so should we!
Cheapest solution: Electrical tape. Best cheap solution: Sliding webcam cover. $6 for 6 covers on amazon. Put them in your car, on your laptop, tablet, etc. Give extras to your friends/family.
It’s funny how different Americans look at this compared to many European country’s. It seems one has mistrust of big corporations and governments and then others, some of which still have kings / queens and don’t have the same level of mistrust. Just interesting to see people’s privacy opinions on a whole and what they will allow. Not a hard fast rule, but is a pattern noticed.
As a Private Hire Taxi driver in the UK this option is awesome. It records the passengers and what goes on in the car. Any issues an it goes straight to the Police.
Thank you for posting your thoughts. I thought the cabin camera would be a good thing for ride share but there is no sound, that we know of and we as drivers can not access the videos anyway. Your point that the liability exposure far outweighs the benefits seems on the money at this point. I think I’m going to the garage and turn mine off now. Stay safe and healthy, thank you for what you do with your channels!
Realize it sounds paranoid, but esp these days & all considered.... Personally, I'd put a little black tape over it too. Sad to say, but wouldn't put it past Tesla to be doing it, regardless... Them just having that check-box option to make people feel more in control of it. ESP since..... even if, none of the footage is made available or even accessible to the owner. That part alone, raised a red flag for me. Stay safe & be well.
I completely agree with you on the “creepy” factor. I think for now this would be a great feature for people who rent their cars out with rideshare services like Turo.
Distracted driving is believed to be responsible for about 25% of MVA fatalities in the US. The main action that will appear on video before a crash will likely be the driver not looking at the road. However, part of the problem is that there are absolutely accidents where no amount of attention would’ve changed the outcome. That won’t matter if either Tesla or your insurance company or LE is wanting to pin blame on you.
I love my Model 3 but I don’t really trust Tesla. They may well capture the video anyway. Good luck proving that you did not say “Yes” to that option. Put a cover on it.
The reason why people are worried is simply because Tesla told you. Amazon, Google, Facebook and everyone else already records you but just doesn’t tell you.
They will eventually use mild coercion to get you to consent to in cab video. They'll pay a judge to rule that if a driver refuses video, they can impose a very low reward limit in lawsuits even if Tesla's product was clearly the problem. They'll put blocks on functionality of some features if you don't consent, or require payment for upgrades they would have otherwise provided at no cost. Everything you share with them would be discoverable. Every three letter agency would have access to files. They will have back-door hacks that can be used by court order to activate the camera without your knowledge.
Ya so if all cars had them, then the person who hit me while texting would be at fault. They're just using to try to figure out if it's autopilots fault or the driver eating the cruller. JMO
Considering they talk about being an insurance company this camera is 100% going to be used to get Tesla out of paying. It’s just in the best interest for the company.
when i bought my M3 dashcam DID record continually. it no longer does. it see why now. i prefer it recording all the time……but i guess its best if it didn’t. i didn't activate the internal camera with the last update.
Would be cool if they enabled useful features like... Enable cabin camera: 1. Do faceID to allow driving car without phone - I assume the side pillar camera would need to have faceID enabled too. 2. Use cabin camera to detect sleeping distracted driver and beep to alert.
I think both are in progress right now. The code for evaluating a driver’s alert level has already been found. Face ID on phones uses special 3D-capable cameras, though, so I’m not sure how reliable the in-cabin camera would be at that.
The last 10 minutes of footage are always saved to your USB drive. This is where that footage is buffered for saving when you tap the button on the screen. In an accident, there will always be footage regardless of if you “saved it” or not. I believe it’s in a folder called “recent” but I’m not 100%. Should be obvious though if you look.
Is it possible that Tesla could make acceptance of this a contract prerequisite for purchasing a car? And what about making it a prerequisite for continued enabling of AP?
It's certainly possible, but not very probable. They want to sell cars and Autopilot software, and they know privacy concerns will only get in the way of that.
Well presented! Exposing and recording my passenger(s) unauthorized is good enough for me to NOT agree with cabin recording. And everything else you presented is also excellent points to NO cabin recording.
How can you disable the cabin camera and audio? Where are the cabin microphones to disable listening inside vehicle. . Put sticker on camera but need audio? How to prevent wife from accessing cabin camera and audio via remote viewing app via iPhone ?
I talk about this elsewhere in the comments. The VIN simply isn’t needed to match video to a particular accident. Time and date plus the person’s actual face will still be part of the video.
I’m surprised they activated it for this purpose before they made it available for sentry mode. Edit: and you address that too. Really well thought out points here.
@@TheTechofTech Yes I totally agree. One could only hope this is what the goal is when turning the function on. It might as well be a combination of what you mention in this video and feeding the neural network with more data. They should be more clear.
I think that using driver monitoring could eliminate a lot of these highly publicized cases where people are asleep at the wheel or not following Tesla’s guidelines about paying attention to the road. Once full self driving is achieved, it won’t be needed, but that could take years. In the mean time driver monitoring could eliminate a lot of accidents. But I also agree that there could also be major privacy concerns. So I guess it just depends on how they use the data. For instance, it might be possible to have facial recognition verify your attention and not retain the video for a significant length of time, and not ever send the data to Tesla. Another interesting project is OpenPilot. The creator of OpenPilot believes that driver monitoring is absolutely essential until full self driving is available.
Excellent consumer point of view. Many good sides taken. Exactly what compensation do you receive from Tesla, or have received from Tesla, or will receive from Tesla. When I buy a Tesla using your code how to they compensate you?
Just a side note, you actually do always have the last hour of footage on your drive. That's why they recommend an endurance SD card/flash drive, because it's constantly using write cycles.
It’s hit or miss how much of that is accessible, and with the files constantly being overwritten, unless your Tesla completely dies or you unplug the drive, the temp files won’t have the data on your incident.
Tesla is now an insurance company in California, and applying to be one in other states. Will I get a discount for providing this camera data to an insurance company? Will that insurance company pay me for the data I provide? Is the camera enabled when sentry mode is enabled?
Sage advice. First adopters do not need to be the first to adopt every feature. Tesla charges $7,000 for the FSD option, eventual delivery was not contingent upon additional access. If Tesla’s video database gets hacked, are they liable for improperly safeguarding your footage? What protection does the driver have? If a corporation has upside only when the owner agrees to additional liability it is a bad gambit. Without material incentives this is a game Tesla owners should play zero times.
I have 2020.28.6 and I cannot find the VIDEO ANALYTICS option to turn off the cabin camera, has anyone the same problem? I do not see the options I see on this video, even I have a newer version...
Great video! I have a slider over the camera since I got my model 3 six months ago. The only time I would use (uncover) if sentry mode is active and if that ever to become available or when Robotaxi arrives. Period. Its absolutely unecessary for them to see me in my car at all time for them to use as "data". Note: even if you have toggled it off it doesn't mean Tesla wouldn't access. Get a laptop camera cover and slide it OFF until it's used for sentry.
it's for the safety of other drivers and Tesla themselves. If Tesla can see what you were doing before you got into an accident, insurance companies know the exact cause and will act accordingly. And it would make it harder for people to push law suites against tesla for a user error.
Don't be scared yo. Some things to think about. 1. will make safer drivers and will help with insurance. 2. robotaxi service will help keep customers from ruining your tesla. 3. No one cares about your boring lives, so don't be scared.
Wow Cameron, you identified so many reasons to not agree to this “sharing”. I am very concerned about privacy, both from an individual and a societal perspective. Over the last twenty years data collection has been on steroids, aided by web surfing and social networks. There is so much to consider. For instance, does a company have a clearly stated privacy policy. If they do, how socially responsible do we believe the company will be in adhering to it’s policies? One step further - in the end, companies are made up of individuals who may or may not be trustworthy, and every time we agree to share data “privately” we also buy into the unintended consequences of data collection. For me it does boil down to trust in the corporation, because ultimately the technology age allows the means of collecting data whether we agree to it or not. In the case of the Tesla cabin camera, do we have any way to verify that they DO NOT capture the video if we haven’t agreed? Unfortunately, no. When I take delivery of my first Tesla (a Model Y), I will not agree to have cabin video captured...and I will cover my inside camera. Thank you for posting this well reasoned, lucid collection of thoughts on this topic...it compelled me to subscribe! Best regards
Question, I just went to my car 2019 Model 2 SR+ and my DATA SHARING screen looks different than yours. The second paragraph does not mention the cabin camera at all. My car's software is up to date. Am I missing something??? TIA
It’s opt-in, but you can check your settings at Controls>Safety & Security>DATA SHARING. You can also buy a webcam slider like I have for a mechanical solution: amzn.to/2ZLTmCi
Maybe it will see if an airbag should have gone off when it didn't and generally improve safety on the inside. It'll be free crash data like when they do crash tests they have all sorts of cameras to test where the crash test dummies head/limbs are hitting. I see it being all about improving crash safety, but it's totally understandable to not want to enable it for privacy reasons.
@@TheTechofTech But are they going to report their injuries or lack of injuries to Tesla? It's not like Tesla investigates every Tesla crash (or maybe they do, I don't know), this will give at least some data to go on for possible improvements. With soon to be millions of Teslas on the road, having things be more automated is going to be increasingly important. "Project vacation" AI could be applied to other aspects like design.
Airbags failing to deploy generate reports to the NHTSA as well as outright lawsuits quite frequently. Here’s an article on that from just two days ago: www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2020/06/26/tesla-sued-airbag-malfunction-model-highway-crash/112022568/
I'm turning on this feature because I expect them to use this data to help develop a neural network to detect driver attentiveness, so that in the future we wont need our hands on the wheel if we "look" attentive, but the risks you state are all relevant. Everyone should do their own risk assessment.
Not sure if you realise this, but Tesla does have a ‘loop recording’ for the last 60 mins of driving. It’s not the hours and hours you mention, but it’s definitely there and available to you on your DashCam drive. Seems to discount about 4 mins of your video 💁♂️
The Tech of Tech it’s been totally reliable for me, and has always been readily accessible when I plug my drive into my computer. Given that you talk at length about recording only being ‘on demand’ and how that provides some sort of legal or privacy protection, it seemed strange that you ignore the 60 mins off rolling footage being saved all the time.
Hi Cameron. This is an interesting and thought provoking video. My initial thought was that that since this is an update for current Tesla owners at least had the choice of whether to agree to it or not. I then wondered what happens, say, six months down the line when this latest update package is part and parcel of the software fitted as standard to new owners. Do you think that you would still have the option to accept/decline that particular feature or would there be no choice and you would therefore have to accept it as a fitted function? I ask this as a non Tesla owner but one who wishes to be when the Model Y comes to Europe. Interested to know your thoughts.
No way it will ever be required, but even then, the camera is easily covered with a webcam slider that will let you choose when video is recorded and when it is not. I just got these, and you can’t even see it in place without looking very closely. amzn.to/2ZsM72c
God forbid I'm in a fatal accident and the car sends the "short video clip" to Tesla. Now there's some chump showing his office friends a video of me dying. No thanks!! I hope Tesla provides counseling for those poor saps that do data validation on these clips. Anyway, they should make it part of the Sentry/Car Share process and nothing else.
Can you imagine a judge/attorney that will subpoena the video to try to incriminate you in the event of an accident? And all because the Tesla owner clicked “yes”. I live in Louisiana where you cannot drive for more than a few minutes without seeing a billboard advertising an attorney’s services. Very litigious state.
The majority of the cabin camera telemetry data was used to train the driver monitoring model. The AI team took clips every time an Autopilot strike/nag occurred.
You cannot finish installing the software upgrade without answering how you want it set. The default selection is "no," but you will still have to indicate that is the setting you want.
Has Tesla ever realise video of an accident of any of there cars before?(NO),Even when autopilot was accused and condemned by media houses Tesla was never pushed to release any of its drivers footage online or to any entity.I don't trust Tesla but at least they've been good with our data's so far.using it for the right reasons(FSD).Tesla wants to teach the inside cameras how to detect if a driver is not focusing just like want we see in GM's Cruise, these is why they need these videos.if they can add sentry mode to it(when you car is broken into)then I will click yes because its now benefitting me.
The in-cabin camera is not in the Model S and X, and the accidents you’re thinking of did not involve Model 3s or Ys. I also never claimed they were going to release video to the press. It’s about them having the video available to them but not you in the event of a court case. Their waiver says nothing about Driver Attentiveness Monitoring. It’s only about recording and saving the last few seconds of video before an accident. They have refused to enable the in-cabin camera for Sentry Mode ever since Sentry Mode was a thing. I’m all for many uses of the in-cabin camera, but the uses described by the waiver mentioned in the video are not the uses you’re talking about.
just had a guy walk up to my parked car. wanted me to open up, hit my car, and yes.. I was scared. If there is something I could have different to get him away from me... and tesla sees that if tesla can see that I am in immediate danger and put a safety feature in place. if I did something wrong, then I am accountable. I am super ok with accountability.
They are probably interested in eye movement for safety features like a distraction warning. Or real world videos of air bag effect. Tesla is very much interested in increasing safety in their vehicles.
Like where your coming from but I believe only reason you wouldn't want it on is it would be user discretion to tell the truth of what happened prior to an accident. I get the point your making it's odd if we have almost no control on it. But I still believe it would be better to have it so in the case of an accident it would be better to prove what driver was doing prior
Again, you can think you were in the right, but the video can be used against you. You do not have access to the video to prove your innocence, but Tesla has instant access to it should you feel they were at fault.
I would certainly enable it if I was going to rent the car on Turo. Otherwise, I tend to agree that we need more clarity about exactly what is going to be done with the data.
@@TheTechofTech True, though I think the knowledge that you're being recorded would encourage responsible behavior by your clientele. Though I'm not a lawyer, I would naively assume that the video could be obtained from Tesla by subpoena.
Great video. I agree with most of what you said in the video. I don’t think you can be legally obligated to turn over even the recorded video, even if you mistakenly chose to record it. Though it is possible you could be compelled to turn it over with a warrant so there is definitely risk of doing so. Saying you are obligated would be self incrimination and you should be protected from this by the fifth amendment. I do think the privacy concerns are real and If had a Tesla I wouldn’t enable it unless I knew my privacy would be protected. I do think Tesla should offer the ability for you to actively erase the video because someone could chose to hit that record button against the driver in the chaos after an accident. Definitely an important subject to address. Most of my commentary is directed at the current external camera recording capability. I definitely wouldn’t use the internal camera without any benefit to the driver.
Yes, a warrant will be required for law enforcement to demand the files, but once a warrant is issued, you would be violating the law to destroy or “lose” the video. BTW, you *can* erase video files and even format the entire drive from within the vehicle since a few updates ago.
The Tech of Tech thank you for your clarification. The way I understood what you were saying in the video was that it would be illegal to not share the video if you chose to record it. If a warrant is issued you would have to turn it over. But if you delete it before then I don't think you are doing anything illegal. Thanks again for the clarification.
If you destroy evidence of a crime, you are violating the law. Now, this happens all day/every day because it still puts the onus on LE to prove what you destroyed/deleted was evidence of a crime, but it is unlawful, nonetheless even if a subpoena has yet to be issued.
The Tech of Tech this is where we disagree on this particular interpretation of the law. Since it is your video and you can't be compelled to incriminate yourself, I don't agree that it would indeed be illegal. This is where a lot of legal precedent is in progress of being established. If it were me, I would cover the camera inside my car and consider carefully using the camera system at all on the car if you interpretation of the law is true. Someone other then you could choose to hit the record button on your car.
I think you misunderstand about what “self-incrimination” means with regards to the Fifth Amendment in the US- it literally means that you cannot be compelled to say something that incriminates you. It does not protect evidence that does not literally exist in your head that you must speak to provide. It only protects you from having to testify against yourself. Here is more about how many countries define it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination
The cabin camera is busting my balls. If I touch my phone the nag starts or really anything in the car. If FSD was helping me it would be worth it, however with FSD being as bad as it is I am working to make FSD better and don’t need the car nagging me as I work. I find it very aggravating that FSD tells me I am driving unsafely when I am 100X better driver than FSD.
They want me to help them then help me by not charging me $200 monthly for summon something that I bought the car for.. even more dangerous I stopped paying the fee and not the autopilot runs red lights before it used to stop. This will be a huge lawsuit when a teenager dies so to Tesla taking away a safety feature for a missed payment insane 🤯
I don't think the phrasing of "Help Tesla to ..." is inherently bad. For example, I'd guess you don't have a problem with "Help Tesla to develop better Autopilot." It's the data the section is referring to, specifically the lack of connection between the data and the goal of fully autonomous cars. The answers to questions you proposed could help that. You yourself are willing to send the data from outside sensors, because the connection between them and Autopilot is clear - if an accident happens due to e.g. not detecting an obstacle, or some rare lighting conditions, having the data (of what sensors saw before the collision) could help avoid the accident in the future. On the other hand, it is not obvious, how the data from the inside camera can help in avoiding the same collision. Especially if the goal is to have fully autonomous cars, i.e. cars able to drive themselves, without a driver, even completely empty. Thus, sending the data of a completely empty cabin is pointless.
That’s why I mention benefit from the video specific to the individual and not a collective benefit. The risk for an individual for any one video recorded of them is much, much greater than the benefit they’ll receive from that one video.
I enjoyed watching the video but I'm still approving Tesla to activate it. I want more video of everything including proof of who is at fault in an accident even if it is me don't something that caused the accident. If I screw up, hold me responsible for it. I wish it wasn't even an option and was a requirement in all vehicles to even operate them. We can just agree to disagree and everyone will have to make up their own mind on this.
You don’t have access to the video, though, so you won’t be able to use it to defend yourself without a subpoena. Also, if you want to establish that you are at fault, you don’t need a video. You can just make the statement that you’re at fault and describe why you think so.
The only way you personally would contribute is by getting into an accident, then engineers watching you and everyone else in your car get injured or killed over and over and over again. Just turning this feature on does absolutely nothing.
I’m sharing my data. I’m sorry you will not be making Tesla safer for future vehicle owners. But I understand your reasoning. But you’re making a lot of assumptions. TESLA says they’re not going to associate your face with the Vin number. However, you make a good point. They could explain more about how the information is going to be used.
They don’t have to associate the video with the VIN because that is not needed to link you to your vehicle, or more specifically, to a specific incident. Metadata will certainly include a timestamp, so if they decided to pull the video to defend themselves against a lawsuit, they’d still be able to find it. Additionally, if subpoenaed by law enforcement, your face will be all LE needs to find you even if they didn’t know the exact time of your accident. BTW, to suggest I’m not doing my part to make Teslas safer is to completely ignore both the data I *do* share with Tesla as well as my efforts to show software issues here on this channel. Note that Tesla has made several changes that coincided with videos I have released demonstrating safety issues. No way to know if they were causally linked, but at a minimum, it shows that Tesla and I are on the same page with what I see as safety issues.
The Tech of Tech I don’t mean to be critical. You raise a lot of good points. I’m actually 50-50 on the issue and not sure whether to turn it on or off. I do hope Tesla addresses the question you have raised toward the end of the video. I know other people have concerns too.Thanks for your good work.
If you fall asleep while driving, that camera could help you to move the vehicle to the side of the road. You are advising others to DEFEAT the safety feature.
@@alexanderhorner I know it doesn't. I'm saying absolutely should. I want control over the stupid device. If you can't physically disable those features then they can be eavesdropping spy devices. Especially pertains to smartphones. We should demand this.
I don't doubt it, but they still aren't clear enough about what else might happen with the video. It's not enough to say they won't associate it with a VIN.
Yes, but as a black man being pulled over by the Police I want every camera working and recording. But I get that it's "intrusive", but what do you think Tesla is doing with that data?
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You brought out some valid and legal points.
TESLACAM overreites videos and ONLY saves if you HONK.
And further proof that Autopilot is not self driving...its just an assist...as long as responsibility rests at all with an owner...it isn't self driving...
I don't want them to see me pick my nose
“Your honor, Justin clearly had both hands fighting a clinger when he should’ve had them on the wheel.”
lol
That's a safety event right there
I was definitely thinking the same things about enabling the camera, I wasn't thinking though about the liability of choosing to hit that button, something to think about for the future.
Awesome video, thanks for letting everyone know this!
The irony is that it’s possible Tesla can’t explain why they have TeslaCam this way without opening themselves up to liability.
Great points... the owner has everything to lose and absolutely nothing to gain by clicking yes.
So you own a Tesla, Tesla gets to use the data from the camera to improve vehicle safety, next Tesla models or your current one gets an update that improves your vehicle. That does help you. Sure the counter to that is privacy, but you pass by speed cameras that take your photo anyway, and you already have a microphone in the car. Not to mention your phone has cameras and a microphone that sees you every time you use it. Your image and data is already out there sold and shared, the questions to ask are how will it be used and who do you trust to have it.
Unless, you drive rideshare. Then, I don't have to try to buy a camera that has to be mounted to the windshield.
Speed cameras only get pictures of your car, not your face. Seen them before.
@@Albanianator yeah, but we still should be able to access to it easily as if we wished to share a footage- so, it shouldn’t be only tesla access to it. If they have access to it, so should we!
Cheapest solution: Electrical tape.
Best cheap solution: Sliding webcam cover.
$6 for 6 covers on amazon. Put them in your car, on your laptop, tablet, etc. Give extras to your friends/family.
It’s funny how different Americans look at this compared to many European country’s. It seems one has mistrust of big corporations and governments and then others, some of which still have kings / queens and don’t have the same level of mistrust. Just interesting to see people’s privacy opinions on a whole and what they will allow. Not a hard fast rule, but is a pattern noticed.
As a Private Hire Taxi driver in the UK this option is awesome. It records the passengers and what goes on in the car. Any issues an it goes straight to the Police.
Thank you for posting your thoughts. I thought the cabin camera would be a good thing for ride share but there is no sound, that we know of and we as drivers can not access the videos anyway. Your point that the liability exposure far outweighs the benefits seems on the money at this point.
I think I’m going to the garage and turn mine off now.
Stay safe and healthy, thank you for what you do with your channels!
There is at least one in-car microphone that could record what people in the car are saying.
Realize it sounds paranoid, but esp these days & all considered.... Personally, I'd put a little black tape over it too. Sad to say, but wouldn't put it past Tesla to be doing it, regardless... Them just having that check-box option to make people feel more in control of it. ESP since..... even if, none of the footage is made available or even accessible to the owner. That part alone, raised a red flag for me. Stay safe & be well.
I completely agree with you on the “creepy” factor. I think for now this would be a great feature for people who rent their cars out with rideshare services like Turo.
That's one of the primary reasons it exists. Although I'd be interested to see their stats on what in cabin causes of crashes there are!
Distracted driving is believed to be responsible for about 25% of MVA fatalities in the US. The main action that will appear on video before a crash will likely be the driver not looking at the road. However, part of the problem is that there are absolutely accidents where no amount of attention would’ve changed the outcome. That won’t matter if either Tesla or your insurance company or LE is wanting to pin blame on you.
Interesting viewpoint, but ultimately nothing changes. More data from Tesla will definitely make for an easier decision to allow the camera function.
@@Octamed I'd agree, except.... Even if something did happen, any footage is not made accessible to the owners whatsoever, so...?
I have a camera cover for my interior camera. Not going to enable this feature until I have access to it.
Indeed, good idea. Some might say paranoid, but esp. these days.. imho, wouldn't put it past 'em, to be doing it, regardless.
mine is covered too with electrical tape
Tesla can most likely turn that camera on any time they like.so if you are concerned put some black tape over it
They can, but if they make that public, they’re sunk.
I love my Model 3 but I don’t really trust Tesla. They may well capture the video anyway. Good luck proving that you did not say “Yes” to that option. Put a cover on it.
The reason why people are worried is simply because Tesla told you. Amazon, Google, Facebook and everyone else already records you but just doesn’t tell you.
They will eventually use mild coercion to get you to consent to in cab video. They'll pay a judge to rule that if a driver refuses video, they can impose a very low reward limit in lawsuits even if Tesla's product was clearly the problem. They'll put blocks on functionality of some features if you don't consent, or require payment for upgrades they would have otherwise provided at no cost. Everything you share with them would be discoverable. Every three letter agency would have access to files. They will have back-door hacks that can be used by court order to activate the camera without your knowledge.
Ya so if all cars had them, then the person who hit me while texting would be at fault. They're just using to try to figure out if it's autopilots fault or the driver eating the cruller. JMO
Considering they talk about being an insurance company this camera is 100% going to be used to get Tesla out of paying.
It’s just in the best interest for the company.
Great point.
Ding, ding... imho, exxxxactly.
Now how do you disable it?
Literally cover it like I talk about.
when i bought my M3 dashcam DID record continually. it no longer does. it see why now. i prefer it recording all the time……but i guess its best if it didn’t. i didn't activate the internal camera with the last update.
@10:58 if this is still the safest car, then why is the insurance rate so high?
Would be cool if they enabled useful features like...
Enable cabin camera:
1. Do faceID to allow driving car without phone - I assume the side pillar camera would need to have faceID enabled too.
2. Use cabin camera to detect sleeping distracted driver and beep to alert.
I think both are in progress right now. The code for evaluating a driver’s alert level has already been found. Face ID on phones uses special 3D-capable cameras, though, so I’m not sure how reliable the in-cabin camera would be at that.
Yuuup. I left it off haha.
I hope they add it to SentryMode soon. *That* I will do.
The last 10 minutes of footage are always saved to your USB drive. This is where that footage is buffered for saving when you tap the button on the screen. In an accident, there will always be footage regardless of if you “saved it” or not. I believe it’s in a folder called “recent” but I’m not 100%. Should be obvious though if you look.
Really appreciated your insights here
Thanks, Keegan!
Is it possible that Tesla could make acceptance of this a contract prerequisite for purchasing a car? And what about making it a prerequisite for continued enabling of AP?
It's certainly possible, but not very probable. They want to sell cars and Autopilot software, and they know privacy concerns will only get in the way of that.
Well presented! Exposing and recording my passenger(s) unauthorized is good enough for me to NOT agree with cabin recording. And everything else you presented is also excellent points to NO cabin recording.
I agree but not just that- it also should be easy access for us to check out ourself not just for tesla!
How can you disable the cabin camera and audio? Where are the cabin microphones to disable listening inside vehicle. . Put sticker on camera but need audio? How to prevent wife from accessing cabin camera and audio via remote viewing app via iPhone ?
😮bro this sounds so shady.. im hopeful however it’s because you’re trying to surprise her 😂
The release notes says it does not send the VIN to Tesla. Does that not change what you have said about potentially self incriminating yourself?
I talk about this elsewhere in the comments. The VIN simply isn’t needed to match video to a particular accident. Time and date plus the person’s actual face will still be part of the video.
The Tech of Tech thank you for your feedback.
I’m surprised they activated it for this purpose before they made it available for sentry mode.
Edit: and you address that too. Really well thought out points here.
Having watched the autonamy day video I think the incar camera will be used for recognizing patterns of human behaviour for collition avoidance.
Tesla could be more conspicuous about this.
@@TheTechofTech Yes I totally agree. One could only hope this is what the goal is when turning the function on. It might as well be a combination of what you mention in this video and feeding the neural network with more data. They should be more clear.
I think that using driver monitoring could eliminate a lot of these highly publicized cases where people are asleep at the wheel or not following Tesla’s guidelines about paying attention to the road. Once full self driving is achieved, it won’t be needed, but that could take years. In the mean time driver monitoring could eliminate a lot of accidents. But I also agree that there could also be major privacy concerns. So I guess it just depends on how they use the data. For instance, it might be possible to have facial recognition verify your attention and not retain the video for a significant length of time, and not ever send the data to Tesla. Another interesting project is OpenPilot. The creator of OpenPilot believes that driver monitoring is absolutely essential until full self driving is available.
Any other model Y owners not get this update yet?
Excellent consumer point of view. Many good sides taken. Exactly what compensation do you receive from Tesla, or have received from Tesla, or will receive from Tesla. When I buy a Tesla using your code how to they compensate you?
Tesla pays nobody anything. They offer free Supercharging miles to referrers and the referred alike. Like I said, full details are at the link itself.
Just a side note, you actually do always have the last hour of footage on your drive. That's why they recommend an endurance SD card/flash drive, because it's constantly using write cycles.
It’s hit or miss how much of that is accessible, and with the files constantly being overwritten, unless your Tesla completely dies or you unplug the drive, the temp files won’t have the data on your incident.
@@TheTechofTech I meant it's in a folder you can access if you plug it into a PC/phone, not on the car itself
I realize that.
Tesla is now an insurance company in California, and applying to be one in other states. Will I get a discount for providing this camera data to an insurance company? Will that insurance company pay me for the data I provide? Is the camera enabled when sentry mode is enabled?
Kind of curious but not a tesla owner (I wish). Can you deactivate it or is activate only? .
It is actually opt-in, so it will only be active if you say "yes."
Sage advice.
First adopters do not need to be the first to adopt every feature. Tesla charges $7,000 for the FSD option, eventual delivery was not contingent upon additional access.
If Tesla’s video database gets hacked, are they liable for improperly safeguarding your footage? What protection does the driver have?
If a corporation has upside only when the owner agrees to additional liability it is a bad gambit. Without material incentives this is a game Tesla owners should play zero times.
Great ways to put it.
I have 2020.28.6 and I cannot find the VIDEO ANALYTICS option to turn off the cabin camera, has anyone the same problem? I do not see the options I see on this video, even I have a newer version...
Great video! I have a slider over the camera since I got my model 3 six months ago. The only time I would use (uncover) if sentry mode is active and if that ever to become available or when Robotaxi arrives. Period.
Its absolutely unecessary for them to see me in my car at all time for them to use as "data".
Note: even if you have toggled it off it doesn't mean Tesla wouldn't access. Get a laptop camera cover and slide it OFF until it's used for sentry.
I need to get one of those sliders.
Absoluckingflutely agree since I wouldn't put it past them, sadly... to do it regardless. ~ Stay safe ENJOY that sweet ride... & be well.
it's for the safety of other drivers and Tesla themselves. If Tesla can see what you were doing before you got into an accident, insurance companies know the exact cause and will act accordingly. And it would make it harder for people to push law suites against tesla for a user error.
You might be looking at the huge touch screen display in the center of the dashboard that has everything on it.
Zing! 😂
You'd better put a sticker on the in-cabin camera to block it off. You never know what kind of back door they have.
I have the same thing, the last two options are on yes but this new cabin camera I'm keeping on off
Don't be scared yo. Some things to think about. 1. will make safer drivers and will help with insurance. 2. robotaxi service will help keep customers from ruining your tesla. 3. No one cares about your boring lives, so don't be scared.
Wow Cameron, you identified so many reasons to not agree to this “sharing”. I am very concerned about privacy, both from an individual and a societal perspective. Over the last twenty years data collection has been on steroids, aided by web surfing and social networks. There is so much to consider. For instance, does a company have a clearly stated privacy policy. If they do, how socially responsible do we believe the company will be in adhering to it’s policies? One step further - in the end, companies are made up of individuals who may or may not be trustworthy, and every time we agree to share data “privately” we also buy into the unintended consequences of data collection. For me it does boil down to trust in the corporation, because ultimately the technology age allows the means of collecting data whether we agree to it or not. In the case of the Tesla cabin camera, do we have any way to verify that they DO NOT capture the video if we haven’t agreed? Unfortunately, no. When I take delivery of my first Tesla (a Model Y), I will not agree to have cabin video captured...and I will cover my inside camera. Thank you for posting this well reasoned, lucid collection of thoughts on this topic...it compelled me to subscribe! Best regards
Question, I just went to my car 2019 Model 2 SR+ and my DATA SHARING screen looks different than yours. The second paragraph does not mention the cabin camera at all. My car's software is up to date. Am I missing something??? TIA
What is the version of software you're running?
@@TheTechofTech I am showing v10.2(2020.28.6 35849ea453e9)
I have no idea, then. I don't really know much about what is hobbled in the SR/SR+ variants of the Model 3.
How do you deactivate the camera? Picked mine up after this update was released.
It’s opt-in, but you can check your settings at Controls>Safety & Security>DATA SHARING. You can also buy a webcam slider like I have for a mechanical solution: amzn.to/2ZLTmCi
@@TheTechofTech thank you!
Maybe it will see if an airbag should have gone off when it didn't and generally improve safety on the inside. It'll be free crash data like when they do crash tests they have all sorts of cameras to test where the crash test dummies head/limbs are hitting. I see it being all about improving crash safety, but it's totally understandable to not want to enable it for privacy reasons.
Maybe, but injuries plus no airbag deployment should be pretty good for that, too.
@@TheTechofTech But are they going to report their injuries or lack of injuries to Tesla? It's not like Tesla investigates every Tesla crash (or maybe they do, I don't know), this will give at least some data to go on for possible improvements. With soon to be millions of Teslas on the road, having things be more automated is going to be increasingly important. "Project vacation" AI could be applied to other aspects like design.
Airbags failing to deploy generate reports to the NHTSA as well as outright lawsuits quite frequently. Here’s an article on that from just two days ago: www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2020/06/26/tesla-sued-airbag-malfunction-model-highway-crash/112022568/
Good insight!
Thanks so much!
Very nice video, Thank you for making it!
Hope it'll blow up, because it's very informative!Greetings from Hungary!
Thank you very much!
I'm turning on this feature because I expect them to use this data to help develop a neural network to detect driver attentiveness, so that in the future we wont need our hands on the wheel if we "look" attentive, but the risks you state are all relevant. Everyone should do their own risk assessment.
...but it states that only video that precedes a collision or “safety event” will be shared.
Not sure if you realise this, but Tesla does have a ‘loop recording’ for the last 60 mins of driving. It’s not the hours and hours you mention, but it’s definitely there and available to you on your DashCam drive. Seems to discount about 4 mins of your video 💁♂️
Being able to get that video is hit or miss, and the only way to stop that being overwritten is to eject the drive.
The Tech of Tech it’s been totally reliable for me, and has always been readily accessible when I plug my drive into my computer. Given that you talk at length about recording only being ‘on demand’ and how that provides some sort of legal or privacy protection, it seemed strange that you ignore the 60 mins off rolling footage being saved all the time.
Can you turn on continuous dashcam recording though?
No.
@@TheTechofTech Weird!
They want to catch you sleeping at the wheel just before a crash so they can have more evidence on whether autopilot is at fault
That would certainly be one way they'd use it.
This feature would allow hands free autopilot features.
I hope that many people will opt-in, so that we have a progress in convenience and safety.
Hi Cameron. This is an interesting and thought provoking video. My initial thought was that that since this is an update for current Tesla owners at least had the choice of whether to agree to it or not. I then wondered what happens, say, six months down the line when this latest update package is part and parcel of the software fitted as standard to new owners. Do you think that you would still have the option to accept/decline that particular feature or would there be no choice and you would therefore have to accept it as a fitted function? I ask this as a non Tesla owner but one who wishes to be when the Model Y comes to Europe. Interested to know your thoughts.
No way it will ever be required, but even then, the camera is easily covered with a webcam slider that will let you choose when video is recorded and when it is not. I just got these, and you can’t even see it in place without looking very closely. amzn.to/2ZsM72c
The camera is used to make sure your eyes stay on the road was in the new update
5:28 loop footage… i mean isn't that literally how they get the last 10 minutes already?
God forbid I'm in a fatal accident and the car sends the "short video clip" to Tesla. Now there's some chump showing his office friends a video of me dying. No thanks!! I hope Tesla provides counseling for those poor saps that do data validation on these clips.
Anyway, they should make it part of the Sentry/Car Share process and nothing else.
The practical considerations of how these videos will be evaluated are quite morbid, for sure.
Well said. Unfortunately, I find your channel AFTER I move away from Cary and NC.
Can you imagine a judge/attorney that will subpoena the video to try to incriminate you in the event of an accident? And all because the Tesla owner clicked “yes”. I live in Louisiana where you cannot drive for more than a few minutes without seeing a billboard advertising an attorney’s services. Very litigious state.
This is a great point.
The Tech of Tech In a similar vein, I will not have an Alexa in my house. Too much “eye in the sky” invited into my home for my taste.
Same here, though I'm really looking forward to iOS 14 snitching on apps that are using my microphone and camera at times I didn't expect them to.
Cam, great review and assessment of the legal ramifications. Agree. Thank you!!!
Thanks for watching!
The majority of the cabin camera telemetry data was used to train the driver monitoring model. The AI team took clips every time an Autopilot strike/nag occurred.
That is not what the release says.
Are "Safety Events" when you wear a hard hat and a hi-viz safety vest while driving, on the way to work?
Is it off, or set as "no", by default? If so that's at least a silver lining.
You cannot finish installing the software upgrade without answering how you want it set. The default selection is "no," but you will still have to indicate that is the setting you want.
Has Tesla ever realise video of an accident of any of there cars before?(NO),Even when autopilot was accused and condemned by media houses Tesla was never pushed to release any of its drivers footage online or to any entity.I don't trust Tesla but at least they've been good with our data's so far.using it for the right reasons(FSD).Tesla wants to teach the inside cameras how to detect if a driver is not focusing just like want we see in GM's Cruise, these is why they need these videos.if they can add sentry mode to it(when you car is broken into)then I will click yes because its now benefitting me.
The in-cabin camera is not in the Model S and X, and the accidents you’re thinking of did not involve Model 3s or Ys. I also never claimed they were going to release video to the press. It’s about them having the video available to them but not you in the event of a court case.
Their waiver says nothing about Driver Attentiveness Monitoring. It’s only about recording and saving the last few seconds of video before an accident. They have refused to enable the in-cabin camera for Sentry Mode ever since Sentry Mode was a thing.
I’m all for many uses of the in-cabin camera, but the uses described by the waiver mentioned in the video are not the uses you’re talking about.
just had a guy walk up to my parked car. wanted me to open up, hit my car, and yes.. I was scared. If there is something I could have different to get him away from me... and tesla sees that if tesla can see that I am in immediate danger and put a safety feature in place. if I did something wrong, then I am accountable. I am super ok with accountability.
They are probably interested in eye movement for safety features like a distraction warning. Or real world videos of air bag effect. Tesla is very much interested in increasing safety in their vehicles.
We can all guess what they might use the footage for, but Tesla could easily explain it themselves.
Tesla does do exactly what you said they dont do, pull your drive and you will see "Recent video" and its ALL of the recent loops of continuous.
I have gone as far as covering the interior camera on my Model 3 with a cam slide shutter.
I have, as well.
i don't have a tesla but...
I don't want tesla to see me vibing to old town road with a hat and sunglasses in a model X
Like where your coming from but I believe only reason you wouldn't want it on is it would be user discretion to tell the truth of what happened prior to an accident. I get the point your making it's odd if we have almost no control on it. But I still believe it would be better to have it so in the case of an accident it would be better to prove what driver was doing prior
Again, you can think you were in the right, but the video can be used against you. You do not have access to the video to prove your innocence, but Tesla has instant access to it should you feel they were at fault.
@@TheTechofTech that's why I believe we should be able to access it as well maybe one day
Yep. If *we* could access that video, then the benefit side for the driver would increase even in light of the risks.
I would certainly enable it if I was going to rent the car on Turo. Otherwise, I tend to agree that we need more clarity about exactly what is going to be done with the data.
You still won’t have access to the video, though.
@@TheTechofTech True, though I think the knowledge that you're being recorded would encourage responsible behavior by your clientele. Though I'm not a lawyer, I would naively assume that the video could be obtained from Tesla by subpoena.
Great insight and info as usual. Thank you!
Very well put.
Thanks for watching!
You can now opt out of sharing data for these cabin cameras
Always could. That’s what I’m telling people to do. ;)
Brilliant video. Very good points. Thank you for it.
Thanks!
It works both ways
If Tesla is subpoenaed to provide your footage, they will HAVE TO give the footage to the law enforcement, not doing that will be a CRIMINAL OFFENCE.
Great video. I agree with most of what you said in the video. I don’t think you can be legally obligated to turn over even the recorded video, even if you mistakenly chose to record it. Though it is possible you could be compelled to turn it over with a warrant so there is definitely risk of doing so. Saying you are obligated would be self incrimination and you should be protected from this by the fifth amendment. I do think the privacy concerns are real and If had a Tesla I wouldn’t enable it unless I knew my privacy would be protected. I do think Tesla should offer the ability for you to actively erase the video because someone could chose to hit that record button against the driver in the chaos after an accident. Definitely an important subject to address. Most of my commentary is directed at the current external camera recording capability. I definitely wouldn’t use the internal camera without any benefit to the driver.
Yes, a warrant will be required for law enforcement to demand the files, but once a warrant is issued, you would be violating the law to destroy or “lose” the video.
BTW, you *can* erase video files and even format the entire drive from within the vehicle since a few updates ago.
The Tech of Tech thank you for your clarification. The way I understood what you were saying in the video was that it would be illegal to not share the video if you chose to record it. If a warrant is issued you would have to turn it over. But if you delete it before then I don't think you are doing anything illegal. Thanks again for the clarification.
If you destroy evidence of a crime, you are violating the law. Now, this happens all day/every day because it still puts the onus on LE to prove what you destroyed/deleted was evidence of a crime, but it is unlawful, nonetheless even if a subpoena has yet to be issued.
The Tech of Tech this is where we disagree on this particular interpretation of the law. Since it is your video and you can't be compelled to incriminate yourself, I don't agree that it would indeed be illegal. This is where a lot of legal precedent is in progress of being established. If it were me, I would cover the camera inside my car and consider carefully using the camera system at all on the car if you interpretation of the law is true. Someone other then you could choose to hit the record button on your car.
I think you misunderstand about what “self-incrimination” means with regards to the Fifth Amendment in the US- it literally means that you cannot be compelled to say something that incriminates you. It does not protect evidence that does not literally exist in your head that you must speak to provide. It only protects you from having to testify against yourself.
Here is more about how many countries define it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination
The cabin camera is busting my balls. If I touch my phone the nag starts or really anything in the car. If FSD was helping me it would be worth it, however with FSD being as bad as it is I am working to make FSD better and don’t need the car nagging me as I work. I find it very aggravating that FSD tells me I am driving unsafely when I am 100X better driver than FSD.
Y’all be saying “it’s not my fault, it’s Tesla’s”
They want me to help them then help me by not charging me $200 monthly for summon something that I bought the car for.. even more dangerous I stopped paying the fee and not the autopilot runs red lights before it used to stop. This will be a huge lawsuit when a teenager dies so to Tesla taking away a safety feature for a missed payment insane 🤯
I don't think the phrasing of "Help Tesla to ..." is inherently bad. For example, I'd guess you don't have a problem with "Help Tesla to develop better Autopilot."
It's the data the section is referring to, specifically the lack of connection between the data and the goal of fully autonomous cars. The answers to questions you proposed could help that.
You yourself are willing to send the data from outside sensors, because the connection between them and Autopilot is clear - if an accident happens due to e.g. not detecting an obstacle, or some rare lighting conditions, having the data (of what sensors saw before the collision) could help avoid the accident in the future.
On the other hand, it is not obvious, how the data from the inside camera can help in avoiding the same collision.
Especially if the goal is to have fully autonomous cars, i.e. cars able to drive themselves, without a driver, even completely empty. Thus, sending the data of a completely empty cabin is pointless.
It's not Nothing to gain, if enough people share data they will be able to train models that go on to help us later.
I'm leaving mine off too though
That’s why I mention benefit from the video specific to the individual and not a collective benefit. The risk for an individual for any one video recorded of them is much, much greater than the benefit they’ll receive from that one video.
Like phones the authorities can require footage as evidence.
They if people accept they get watched? That's..... Interesting to know
Very good arguments.
Thank you!
Great video. I clicked No almost immediately thought being not taking that risk if I'm at fault.
You and me both!
I enjoyed watching the video but I'm still approving Tesla to activate it. I want more video of everything including proof of who is at fault in an accident even if it is me don't something that caused the accident. If I screw up, hold me responsible for it. I wish it wasn't even an option and was a requirement in all vehicles to even operate them. We can just agree to disagree and everyone will have to make up their own mind on this.
You don’t have access to the video, though, so you won’t be able to use it to defend yourself without a subpoena. Also, if you want to establish that you are at fault, you don’t need a video. You can just make the statement that you’re at fault and describe why you think so.
I think this is the advice of a paranoid person. I’m turning my camera on and helping improve safety for everyone.
The only way you personally would contribute is by getting into an accident, then engineers watching you and everyone else in your car get injured or killed over and over and over again. Just turning this feature on does absolutely nothing.
They are just trying to figure out where to place the booger wipe cloth on the seat.
I’m sharing my data. I’m sorry you will not be making Tesla safer for future vehicle owners. But I understand your reasoning. But you’re making a lot of assumptions. TESLA says they’re not going to associate your face with the Vin number.
However, you make a good point. They could explain more about how the information is going to be used.
They don’t have to associate the video with the VIN because that is not needed to link you to your vehicle, or more specifically, to a specific incident. Metadata will certainly include a timestamp, so if they decided to pull the video to defend themselves against a lawsuit, they’d still be able to find it. Additionally, if subpoenaed by law enforcement, your face will be all LE needs to find you even if they didn’t know the exact time of your accident.
BTW, to suggest I’m not doing my part to make Teslas safer is to completely ignore both the data I *do* share with Tesla as well as my efforts to show software issues here on this channel. Note that Tesla has made several changes that coincided with videos I have released demonstrating safety issues. No way to know if they were causally linked, but at a minimum, it shows that Tesla and I are on the same page with what I see as safety issues.
The Tech of Tech I don’t mean to be critical. You raise a lot of good points. I’m actually 50-50 on the issue and not sure whether to turn it on or off. I do hope Tesla addresses the question you have raised toward the end of the video. I know other people have concerns too.Thanks for your good work.
Thanks mannn...you've said it all
Thanks for watching!
Easy fix put an electrical tap on it
If you fall asleep while driving, that camera could help you to move the vehicle to the side of the road. You are advising others to DEFEAT the safety feature.
That is not a safety feature that exists with Tesla.
Awesome video. Just turned this off. Every tesla owner needs to see this!
Glad it helped!
By law All cameras and speakers should have an ability to physically disable so that they cant be turned on remotely.
Chas L - This is not true. The law does *not* require this.
@@alexanderhorner I know it doesn't. I'm saying absolutely should. I want control over the stupid device. If you can't physically disable those features then they can be eavesdropping spy devices. Especially pertains to smartphones.
We should demand this.
Wow. Thanks
They want to see crash physics...like crash test Dummies...but with you
I don't doubt it, but they still aren't clear enough about what else might happen with the video. It's not enough to say they won't associate it with a VIN.
Agree!
Yes, but as a black man being pulled over by the Police I want every camera working and recording. But I get that it's "intrusive", but what do you think Tesla is doing with that data?
You don’t have access to this video. It’s not recorded for your use at all.