Hello, Jane. I finished writing my first draft of my first mystery. I had to push myself to get it done, but i did it. Now i'm going to listen to some more mystery audiobooks, maybe read a few more stories, then after the holidays, I'll start rewriting...it feels good...i did it....
Wow, this was AMAZING, Jane! I actually knew who the Frazier killer was beforehand since I always remembered that episode. The Seventh Sinner clues were EPIC! Feel like I'm not smart enough to plot clues like those lolz. Fun fact: I actually had Raggedy Ann & Andy dolls. But they always came in second to my Strawberry Shortcake though.
Thank you so much, Avionne! I agree, 7th Sinner IS epic, but the whole point of these videos is to show you that you ARE smart enough to think up clues like this! Think about what information the clue is trying to convey, then brainstorm a list of ways it can be distorted. 'Tis an art, but also a science!
The great thing about writing is you don't have to be as smart as your sleuth. As writers, we get to write a good idea, then go back and edit, adding the clues. Writing anything in a big lump is daunting, but writing scenes, as you would watch on TV, then stitching them together, makes it much easier. At least for me. I call my technique patchwork quilt writing. In an interview, Agatha Christie said she wrote the ending first, then the rest, then added the clues and red herrings. Jon in rural BC, Canada
I am loving your videos. Relatively new to your channel and I’ve been watching and rewatching as many as I can. Love how you break everything down and how easily you convey the information when it comes to how mysteries are constructed. Found it really helpful. Have you ever watched Jonathan Creek? I’ve not see you mention it in the videos I’ve seen. It has some really fun and interesting “howdunit” murders.
i love these videos so much! i recently started dabbling in murder mysteries and, upon realizing how monumental of a planning task it would be to write anything that i found enjoyable, i nearly panicked haha! finding your channel has been such a huge help, definitely watching as many videos as i can!
Terrific examples, and I haven't seen any of those episodes or read 7th Sinner. When I heard seven, I thought it might mean one, as not everyone crosses their sevens like me, and some write ones with an overlong cap. But hearing that Ann was Virginia, makes me wonder if Andy's name also began with a V, as is common with twins, so that the VII could have implicated both of them. Jon in rural BC, Canada
A great video. I have a problem with 7 sinners as an example though. Haven't read it so I could be missing something but it sounds like the author just lies to the reader. There's no reason why Jane wouldn't say she found the number 7 written VII immediately. It seems like a stretch for the reveal later.
I too can't stand when an author lies to the reader--but that's really not what happened here. It's actually extremely well done, in the text. Jean did tell everyone the message was "seven," but she never indicated anything about the actual figures that were drawn. Even when we read the scene from her perspective, it says something like "if she had not seen the strokes form, she would never have recognized them." Of course, modern readers assume it's a "7," but leading your readers to a false assumption is totally fair game. It's very much as if I were wearing blue-tinted glasses, and I told you I saw someone wearing a purple jacket committing the crime. The person was actually wearing a red jacket, but I'm not lying to you, I'm just telling you what seems to be true from my perspective. I see the red jacket and interpret it as purple. Jean saw the "VII" and interpreted it as "seven," because the lens she is wearing is her comfort with Roman numerals.
One thing about these, given that they were made in the 1970s, some of the clues only work for people who were alive at the time period the mysteries were set in.
And did you know the Murder, She Wrote episode "The Grand Old Lady" was an Ellery Queen script that never got produced, so they changed things about and used it. I still can't watch it without inserting Ellery and Inspector Queen. :) Jon in rural BC, Canada
I agree. My original script said, "and yes, they have red hair" about Ann and Andy, but then I realized, "Nope, most younger people won't know what that's a reference to. Better explicitly mention the dolls."
Very insightful video! I have an issue with the Seven Sinners book though. I think it can be important for mystery writers to learn a bit about police procedure before plotting. Police do compile reports and if the sinners were suspects, it's illogical to think they wouldn't ascertain how the seven was written. She likely would've written it this way in her statement. Offhand I'm admittedly not familiar with homicide investigations in Rome, but I think Western audiences would assume it's similar. Police would also check their suspect's ID's and I'm sure it doesn't say "Ann" and "Andy on the passports. It wouldn't be a big leap for them to spot the similarity to the first letters of Virginia. It's understandable for the characters not to know them by any other names but not so the investigators. Not to criticize the author as I'm sure it's a great read (the VII and Virginia is awesome!) but I think it makes for a tighter story when the author knows what the police would be doing alongside the characters, instead of making the police suddenly non-existent, or less intelligent, just to make the sleuths smarter. A fine balance for sure.
A fair point. I also wonder about the lipstick, etc. Andy used to imitate Ann. How did he dispose of those, as both his person, and the catacombs, should have been searched? My best guess is that he used items already belonging to Ann, then slipped them into her bag where they would cause little comment. But I wish that detail had been tied down. A lot of mysteries have nagging little details that don't quite hold together, but mostly I choose to ignore them, purely for the fun!
I truly believe you are! First, think of a message one character wants to send. Then ask yourself, how can that message be distorted? Can it be fragmented? Misunderstood? Changed by another person? It is a lot of work coming up with these clues, but it’s possible!
@Jane Kalmes Well you focused on messages in the video but you could also generalize it. Like making it so that a clue mistakenly left by a killer could point to one thing but it actually points to another thing
I consider the Hercule Poirot novels to be some of the most notorious with transparent clues, as so much of his evidence relies on trying get the psychological profile of the suspects right.
Hello, Jane. I finished writing my first draft of my first mystery. I had to push myself to get it done, but i did it. Now i'm going to listen to some more mystery audiobooks, maybe read a few more stories, then after the holidays, I'll start rewriting...it feels good...i did it....
That is amazing! Huge congratulations! What a way to finish out the year!
Wow, this was AMAZING, Jane! I actually knew who the Frazier killer was beforehand since I always remembered that episode.
The Seventh Sinner clues were EPIC! Feel like I'm not smart enough to plot clues like those lolz. Fun fact: I actually had Raggedy Ann & Andy dolls. But they always came in second to my Strawberry Shortcake though.
Thank you so much, Avionne! I agree, 7th Sinner IS epic, but the whole point of these videos is to show you that you ARE smart enough to think up clues like this! Think about what information the clue is trying to convey, then brainstorm a list of ways it can be distorted. 'Tis an art, but also a science!
The great thing about writing is you don't have to be as smart as your sleuth. As writers, we get to write a good idea, then go back and edit, adding the clues.
Writing anything in a big lump is daunting, but writing scenes, as you would watch on TV, then stitching them together, makes it much easier. At least for me. I call my technique patchwork quilt writing.
In an interview, Agatha Christie said she wrote the ending first, then the rest, then added the clues and red herrings.
Jon in rural BC, Canada
@@JonTanOsb Thanks, I hadnt thought of it like that!
I am loving your videos. Relatively new to your channel and I’ve been watching and rewatching as many as I can. Love how you break everything down and how easily you convey the information when it comes to how mysteries are constructed. Found it really helpful. Have you ever watched Jonathan Creek? I’ve not see you mention it in the videos I’ve seen. It has some really fun and interesting “howdunit” murders.
Thanks, Benjamin! I will put it on my big list!
The Seventh Sinner is free on Audible right now... so I'll wait to watch the second half of this video... I'll be back!
I hope you enjoy it!
i love these videos so much! i recently started dabbling in murder mysteries and, upon realizing how monumental of a planning task it would be to write anything that i found enjoyable, i nearly panicked haha! finding your channel has been such a huge help, definitely watching as many videos as i can!
Awesome, that makes me so happy!
That was super useful! Thanks!
Love your analyses!
Thank you so much!
Thanks for telling me Professor Kalmes, I’ve been trying to find clues for my mystery novel
Glad to help!
❤❤❤❤ thanks, this is really helpful for non-mystery writing too :)
I'm so glad!
I loved this video! As always you're great at verbalizing your lesson and the example you gave was incredible. 🙂
So glad you liked it, Jeremy!
@@janekalmes I love your videos on mystery writing in general but this is one of my favourites (the 4 level clue was very interesting).
Awesome explanation and insight.
Thank you so much!
Terrific examples, and I haven't seen any of those episodes or read 7th Sinner. When I heard seven, I thought it might mean one, as not everyone crosses their sevens like me, and some write ones with an overlong cap. But hearing that Ann was Virginia, makes me wonder if Andy's name also began with a V, as is common with twins, so that the VII could have implicated both of them.
Jon in rural BC, Canada
Good thinking, Jon!
A great video. I have a problem with 7 sinners as an example though. Haven't read it so I could be missing something but it sounds like the author just lies to the reader. There's no reason why Jane wouldn't say she found the number 7 written VII immediately. It seems like a stretch for the reveal later.
I too can't stand when an author lies to the reader--but that's really not what happened here. It's actually extremely well done, in the text. Jean did tell everyone the message was "seven," but she never indicated anything about the actual figures that were drawn. Even when we read the scene from her perspective, it says something like "if she had not seen the strokes form, she would never have recognized them." Of course, modern readers assume it's a "7," but leading your readers to a false assumption is totally fair game.
It's very much as if I were wearing blue-tinted glasses, and I told you I saw someone wearing a purple jacket committing the crime. The person was actually wearing a red jacket, but I'm not lying to you, I'm just telling you what seems to be true from my perspective. I see the red jacket and interpret it as purple. Jean saw the "VII" and interpreted it as "seven," because the lens she is wearing is her comfort with Roman numerals.
Is this a re-upload? I feel like I have seen these points before ..?
Good eye! It’s a complete video that deals with some topics I touched on during a livestream.
@@janekalmes ah ok then I’m not going crazy, carry on!
Reminds me of lucky number slevin
Just out of curiosity, have you watched the 1970’s one season only Ellery Queen videos?
Here is the pilot episode:
ruclips.net/video/hxqLz-LWw9Q/видео.html
Thanks so much! I haven’t seen it.
One thing about these, given that they were made in the 1970s, some of the clues only work for people who were alive at the time period the mysteries were set in.
And did you know the Murder, She Wrote episode "The Grand Old Lady" was an Ellery Queen script that never got produced, so they changed things about and used it. I still can't watch it without inserting Ellery and Inspector Queen. :)
Jon in rural BC, Canada
I agree. My original script said, "and yes, they have red hair" about Ann and Andy, but then I realized, "Nope, most younger people won't know what that's a reference to. Better explicitly mention the dolls."
❤️❤️
Back at ya! ❤️
Very insightful video! I have an issue with the Seven Sinners book though. I think it can be important for mystery writers to learn a bit about police procedure before plotting. Police do compile reports and if the sinners were suspects, it's illogical to think they wouldn't ascertain how the seven was written. She likely would've written it this way in her statement. Offhand I'm admittedly not familiar with homicide investigations in Rome, but I think Western audiences would assume it's similar. Police would also check their suspect's ID's and I'm sure it doesn't say "Ann" and "Andy on the passports. It wouldn't be a big leap for them to spot the similarity to the first letters of Virginia. It's understandable for the characters not to know them by any other names but not so the investigators. Not to criticize the author as I'm sure it's a great read (the VII and Virginia is awesome!) but I think it makes for a tighter story when the author knows what the police would be doing alongside the characters, instead of making the police suddenly non-existent, or less intelligent, just to make the sleuths smarter. A fine balance for sure.
A fair point. I also wonder about the lipstick, etc. Andy used to imitate Ann. How did he dispose of those, as both his person, and the catacombs, should have been searched? My best guess is that he used items already belonging to Ann, then slipped them into her bag where they would cause little comment. But I wish that detail had been tied down.
A lot of mysteries have nagging little details that don't quite hold together, but mostly I choose to ignore them, purely for the fun!
This is all very good but I don't think I can be clever enough to come up with translucent clues
I truly believe you are! First, think of a message one character wants to send. Then ask yourself, how can that message be distorted? Can it be fragmented? Misunderstood? Changed by another person? It is a lot of work coming up with these clues, but it’s possible!
@Jane Kalmes Well you focused on messages in the video but you could also generalize it. Like making it so that a clue mistakenly left by a killer could point to one thing but it actually points to another thing
Definitely true!
Just ordered The Seventh Sinner from thriftbooks. I'll be back....
I hope you love it!
@@janekalmes Just finished it. Loved it!
I don’t know why Albert wrote VII instead of VI, it would’ve been so much better as a clue
Hmm, not sure I take your meaning? I’m just not understanding.
No he meant to write Virginia. The second I is the starting stroke for R. So he meant to write V I R but was dead before he could complete the full R.
I consider the Hercule Poirot novels to be some of the most notorious with transparent clues, as so much of his evidence relies on trying get the psychological profile of the suspects right.
You're so right!