Hey hi Joe, i have a problem and i don't know if it is plot/subplot, character or p.o.v related all that i know is that it prevent me from learning more and actually understand how to write anything and i was wondering if you could help me ? Ok so here is where am at when it come to the understanding of the basics: Note: i'm french so please forgive my english. ------------------- THE BASICS PLOT = The sequence of events that make up the narrative, that's easy right ? ... Everything in a story is an - Event: (Somebody try to lit a fire in the wood is an ACTION because it's performed by an agent/person, but is also an EVENT because well it happen, if the rain start and put out the fire, it is not an ACTION since nodody has performed it but it is still happening therefore it is an EVENT, finally if the cops came it's both action + event) and we have different level of events: minor, mid, major, those events are what is a - Story: the recounting or counting of events in their order of happening, CHRONO-logical order: breakfast THEN lunch THEN dinner, the only link between those event are JUST their CHRONO-logy. Event 1 happen before event 2 and event 3 happen after event 2: The king died, then the queen died. - Plot is those story events, selected, deleted, rearranged, extended, shortened, and tied by causality, the king died, then the queen died OF GRIEF. She died because he died and let her alone, one event is the cause OR the effect of the other. In the plot the events are not linked CHRONO-logically (they can be) but rather CAUSALLY - Character arc: is basically what it says, an arc, going from selfish to altruist, from liar to honest, from Walter White, a ridiculed teacher washing cars to HENSEINBERG, or not changing at all: Sherlock Holmes, Columbo etc... - Plot = EXTERNAL journey : The stuff that the character does in the physical world: actions or event (happenings/occurrences due to character actions) - Character arc = INTERNAL journey: The reason why the character do what they do and what it does to them, how the journey change them. - Motivation > objective > goal and then you have the - Narrative which is just the whole, what you generally tell to people when talking in real life, the movie, the book, the complete piece ! -------------------- MY PROBLEM I'm trying to make sense of three things: -1. Are SUB-goals MINI-PLOTS ? -2. What is a SUB-plot -3. What happen to character own plots when they enter other character plots --- SUB-GOALS / MINI-PLOTS Every goal is composed of SUB-goals ! Let's say i have a character who's goal is to protect earth by destroying an asteroid (man vs nature) - motivation: protecting his family, friends, the human race - goal/objectif: destroying the asteroid - conflict: every antagonistic force in his way, preventing him from reaching his goal Joe's plan to get rid of that asteroid is to go himself place an explosive on it but for that he needs a professor to do the trajectory calculations for him, he need to have the support from high ranks generals etc. So his goal will then be composed with a bunch of SUB goals and the success of the MAIN goal will then be conditioned by the success or failure of those SUB goals right ? So my first question his are those SUB-GOALS - Finding a way to leave town and get to the professor - Finding the professor - Convincing a general to let him use military equipments MINI-plots ? With their own exposition, inciting incident, rising action, climax and resolution ? --- PLOT & SUBPLOTS My understanding is that their is the joe's plot (MAIN PLOT) which start at the inciting incident and then end at the resolution, so for a movie it is at the end of the film, for a trilogy each film should have their own plots, and for a tv shows it is at the end of the entire show and then you have SUB plots which are side stories that are in some way tied to Joe's plot (MAIN PLOT) example: The professor ex wife call asking him to go get their son to his baseball match cause she's seek, therefore can't ? I get that this is a sub plot because well, getting his son is not part of saving the world joe's plot but the timing and duration of that subplot will ultimately affect the trajectory calculations part of Joe's plot. Am i getting this correctly ? --- CHARACTER PLOTS Then this is the most important thing for me: What happen to character plots when they enter someone else's plot ? Let's say. Joe he's leaving his best life when the NASA call him tell him they need him cause an asteroid is about to destroy earth, this is the inciting incident, the event that will force Joe to do a bunch of actions related to that asteroid ! It is joe's plot, SAVING THE PLANET Joe will not do this alone, he's gonna have several characters that help him pull this off, some will help some will inder him, what happen to those characters plots when they enter joe's one ? and at which part of their plots (inciting incident, rising action, climax, resolution) do they enter Joe's plot ?
You’ll see that my comment completely contradicts much of my own work but here we go. I’ll be honest, I try not to use the words plot, sub plot, character arc, even the word character anymore. You’ll notice I’ll call them “people in stories”. The reason is, these words are all made up words, from the perspective of a structuralist mindset of “constructing a rollercoaster ride for an audience”. The definition of the word story is VERY diluted and has many many interpretations, but stories are not constructions, they’re telling a or depictions of human experiences. Theres no words for a real life character arc for example. I like to ground the terminology in real life. I use the word motivation because it’s a real word for real people who do real things for real reasons. It’s not a term for a made up story element. You can see my understanding has changed throughout the years and I’m better off for it. My advice - scrap all of the terms you mentioned, apart from the word story and motivation. I’ll do a video on this one day, about why I’m ditching many of these terms.
Making this for myself so i remember lol 1. Stumble across clue by accident (Realizes puzzle needs to be solved) 2. Come across clue while doing something else 3. Go to puzzle box for answers (Puzzle box = person or place where they think they can get answers) but finds nothing 4. Search for more clues and guess the answer (repeated) 5. Finding the crucial clues will be harder after the easier ones are found 6. Look for person/place to give them the final piece they need (hard to find this person/place) 7. Find last piece and mystery is solved 8. The Reveal (Anticipated or Surprise) 9. Anticipated - every goes as expected and is the final answer 10. Surprise - thinks they solved the mystery but stumbles on the real final clue instead (red herring - fakeout answer) Great video
Thank you for this video! You made me rethink the direction for my story and showed me how to make the journey more exciting for the reader. This was tremendously helpful! You have a way of making complicated topics crystal clear! This genre has so many elements, and is incredibly challenging, yet so much fun to write!
Yes. Thank you Joe. You took my request and made this video. I don't know how to thank you. But I needed this so much right now. And it helped me a lot as always. Once again, heart full of thanks. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
These mystery videos have become a fantastic resource for my current D&D campaign! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Can’t wait to check out your other playlists!
Your mystery centric videos are a godsend!!! So practical and HELPFUL! The puzzle box specifically was a great analogy. Thank you so much I hope there's more mystery plotting videos to come Any advice on foreshadowing for anticipated reveals? Most mystery advice is exclusively about plot twists. It was super cool to see the other option acknowledged
Thank you for this high-level overview of how to structure the reveal of mystery! I'm writing my first one (a subplot) and I'm super nervous! You've given me confidence to keep moving forward creating and placing pieces for my heroine to find 😊
I appreciated the red herring video! You always share practical information. But I'm not opposed to redoing it. I know you are always improving! A thought I've been very intrigued by, lately, is how to use 3rd person narration voices to support a cosmic horror-type vibe. Like, a guide for things you generally shouldn't do/say, and what might not even be bad ideas for this. Including any helpful story structures, if you see something unique about this genre! If you get inspired sometime, I'd be very into a video with your thoughts and ideas :)
Thank you :) I know some people found it helpful but I knew I could do it better, so I just have to, haha! Interesting! POV is one of the things I know very little about actually. Someone I'd recommend who knows a lot about that is Claire Fraise. Worth checking out.
My goal for 2022 is to write a mystery story on wattpad. I'm glad I watched your video, it was insightful. I'll be binge watching so I can learn a lot. Thank you for sharing this information!
I want to ask you a question. Is mystery a complete story in itself? Like what happens after the last clue is found? And isn't it the element of betrayal that's going to come into play when they suddenly find the last piece of the puzzle? I hope I am making myself clear, like understand that this is the centre of the story, but what happens around it or what the antagonist is doing meanwhile our character is reaching close to him?
You can define "story" in whatever way is easiest for you to understand. I see a mystery as an individual story with very defined story events that lead up to the reveal. That mystery story can run parallel to other stories. For example, if you have a betrayal in your story, that would be a "relationship" story in a sense because it's between 2 people. That betrayal will have it's own individual story events that lead up to that betrayal. But you could have a mystery story along side it, so the betrayal (1. relationship story event) would simultaneously be part of a mystery reveal (2. mystery story event). I would separate the story into 2. You'd have 2 stories to write with their own individual story events that coincide at the end. That's my way of seeing it.
Such interesting topic,. What kind of clue can their be with a government officials cover up. Such as deleted video footage film. In order to frame a person,. I wonder how many people would ask for the film footage . The clue is so many camera everywhere.
The empty box probably has a picture of the finished puzzle on the lid. Right? [Hmm.] Maybe it's one of those 'Wasgij' puzzle where the picture on the lid is of a bunch of people reacting to the picture which you're trying to solve by doing the jigsaw? Or maybe the picture has been ripped off? Maybe there's a sheet of instructions in the bottom of the box with tantalizingly incomplete clues? Lord of the rings. 1. How does the character stumble across the first clue? Bilbo literally stumbles across the ring. 2. What is the puzzle box? The fact it turns him invisible when worn. 3. Where does (Gandalf) begin searching for clues? He keeps an eye on Bilbo and notices he's not aging, then he goes to Minas Tirith and researches the history of the one ring, then he captures Gollum and questions him, then he goes to Isengard to confront Saruman with his conclusion (and gets captured by him.) -Then the rest of the story happens. But that's okay, most of the story was an adventure story, not a mystery story. It just had an element of mystery around the ring when it first showed up. Interesting video, and quite helpful. Thanks for making and uploading this.
I only realized a week ago that my story had a mystery, in a way, though more of a "who done it." Glad to head you'll do another red herring video. Example: I think, in the first Harry Potter book, letting the reader/audience think Snape was after Harry would be a red herring, yes? What another book or movie example? Oh, look! A mood board video. See you there. ;)
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller Sure. While writing a story, we come across questions(regarding character, conflict, etc.) which needs to be answered to move ahead. I wanted to know what techniques do you use when you are stuck in a story (by these questions) ?
Hey hi Joe, i have a problem and i don't know if it is plot/subplot, character or p.o.v related all that i know is that it prevent me from learning more and actually understand how to write anything and i was wondering if you could help me ?
Ok so here is where am at when it come to the understanding of the basics:
Note: i'm french so please forgive my english.
-------------------
THE BASICS
PLOT =
The sequence of events that make up the narrative, that's easy right ? ... Everything in a story is an
- Event:
(Somebody try to lit a fire in the wood is an ACTION because it's performed by an agent/person, but is also an EVENT because well it happen, if the rain start and put out the fire, it is not an ACTION since nodody has performed it but it is still happening therefore it is an EVENT, finally if the cops came it's both action + event) and we have different level of events: minor, mid, major, those events are what is a
- Story:
the recounting or counting of events in their order of happening, CHRONO-logical order: breakfast THEN lunch THEN dinner, the only link between those event are JUST their CHRONO-logy. Event 1 happen before event 2 and event 3 happen after event 2: The king died, then the queen died.
- Plot is those story events, selected, deleted, rearranged, extended, shortened, and tied by causality, the king died, then the queen died OF GRIEF. She died because he died and let her alone, one event is the cause OR the effect of the other. In the plot the events are not linked CHRONO-logically (they can be) but rather CAUSALLY
- Character arc: is basically what it says, an arc, going from selfish to altruist, from liar to honest, from Walter White, a ridiculed teacher washing cars to HENSEINBERG, or not changing at all: Sherlock Holmes, Columbo etc...
- Plot = EXTERNAL journey : The stuff that the character does in the physical world: actions or event (happenings/occurrences due to character actions)
- Character arc = INTERNAL journey: The reason why the character do what they do and what it does to them, how the journey change them.
- Motivation > objective > goal
and then you have the
- Narrative which is just the whole, what you generally tell to people when talking in real life, the movie, the book, the complete piece !
--------------------
MY PROBLEM
I'm trying to make sense of three things:
-1. Are SUB-goals MINI-PLOTS ?
-2. What is a SUB-plot
-3. What happen to character own plots when they enter other character plots
---
SUB-GOALS / MINI-PLOTS
Every goal is composed of SUB-goals !
Let's say i have a character who's goal is to protect earth by destroying an asteroid (man vs nature)
- motivation: protecting his family, friends, the human race
- goal/objectif: destroying the asteroid
- conflict: every antagonistic force in his way, preventing him from reaching his goal
Joe's plan to get rid of that asteroid is to go himself place an explosive on it but for that he needs a professor to do the trajectory calculations for him, he need to have the support from high ranks generals etc. So his goal will then be composed with a bunch of SUB goals and the success of the MAIN goal will then be conditioned by the success or failure of those SUB goals right ? So my first question his are those SUB-GOALS
- Finding a way to leave town and get to the professor
- Finding the professor
- Convincing a general to let him use military equipments
MINI-plots ? With their own exposition, inciting incident, rising action, climax and resolution ?
---
PLOT & SUBPLOTS
My understanding is that their is the joe's plot (MAIN PLOT) which start at the inciting incident and then end at the resolution, so for a movie it is at the end of the film, for a trilogy each film should have their own plots, and for a tv shows it is at the end of the entire show and then you have SUB plots which are side stories that are in some way tied to Joe's plot (MAIN PLOT) example:
The professor ex wife call asking him to go get their son to his baseball match cause she's seek, therefore can't ? I get that this is a sub plot because well, getting his son is not part of saving the world joe's plot but the timing and duration of that subplot will ultimately affect the trajectory calculations part of Joe's plot. Am i getting this correctly ?
---
CHARACTER PLOTS
Then this is the most important thing for me: What happen to character plots when they enter someone else's plot ?
Let's say.
Joe he's leaving his best life when the NASA call him tell him they need him cause an asteroid is about to destroy earth, this is the inciting incident, the event that will force Joe to do a bunch of actions related to that asteroid ! It is joe's plot, SAVING THE PLANET
Joe will not do this alone, he's gonna have several characters that help him pull this off, some will help some will inder him, what happen to those characters plots when they enter joe's one ? and at which part of their plots (inciting incident, rising action, climax, resolution) do they enter Joe's plot ?
You’ll see that my comment completely contradicts much of my own work but here we go.
I’ll be honest, I try not to use the words plot, sub plot, character arc, even the word character anymore. You’ll notice I’ll call them “people in stories”. The reason is, these words are all made up words, from the perspective of a structuralist mindset of “constructing a rollercoaster ride for an audience”.
The definition of the word story is VERY diluted and has many many interpretations, but stories are not constructions, they’re telling a or depictions of human experiences. Theres no words for a real life character arc for example. I like to ground the terminology in real life.
I use the word motivation because it’s a real word for real people who do real things for real reasons. It’s not a term for a made up story element.
You can see my understanding has changed throughout the years and I’m better off for it.
My advice - scrap all of the terms you mentioned, apart from the word story and motivation.
I’ll do a video on this one day, about why I’m ditching many of these terms.
I really like the way you talk. You have a presence that fits your content well.
Making this for myself so i remember lol
1. Stumble across clue by accident (Realizes puzzle needs to be solved)
2. Come across clue while doing something else
3. Go to puzzle box for answers (Puzzle box = person or place where they think they can get answers) but finds nothing
4. Search for more clues and guess the answer (repeated)
5. Finding the crucial clues will be harder after the easier ones are found
6. Look for person/place to give them the final piece they need (hard to find this person/place)
7. Find last piece and mystery is solved
8. The Reveal (Anticipated or Surprise)
9. Anticipated - every goes as expected and is the final answer
10. Surprise - thinks they solved the mystery but stumbles on the real final clue instead (red herring - fakeout answer)
Great video
I LOVE the animation soooo much it’s so adorable! And it really makes it easier to visualise what you’re describing. Brilliant, thank you!
Thank you so much! Worked super hard on this during multiple work calls and it all paid off ;)
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller hey why not you tell us one of your mysteries? I'm sure we'll love it.
I'd love to... but it's a mystery
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller 😁
Do you write mystery stories?
Thank you for this video! You made me rethink the direction for my story and showed me how to make the journey more exciting for the reader. This was tremendously helpful! You have a way of making complicated topics crystal clear! This genre has so many elements, and is incredibly challenging, yet so much fun to write!
Aw I’m so glad. This is very encouraging to read, thanks for the great comment as always 🥳
Yes. Thank you Joe. You took my request and made this video. I don't know how to thank you. But I needed this so much right now.
And it helped me a lot as always. Once again, heart full of thanks.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Aw I’m so glad! 🥳🎉
These mystery videos have become a fantastic resource for my current D&D campaign! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Can’t wait to check out your other playlists!
I’m so glad! Good luck with your D&D campaign!
Your mystery centric videos are a godsend!!! So practical and HELPFUL! The puzzle box specifically was a great analogy.
Thank you so much
I hope there's more mystery plotting videos to come
Any advice on foreshadowing for anticipated reveals?
Most mystery advice is exclusively about plot twists. It was super cool to see the other option acknowledged
Thank you for this high-level overview of how to structure the reveal of mystery! I'm writing my first one (a subplot) and I'm super nervous! You've given me confidence to keep moving forward creating and placing pieces for my heroine to find 😊
Wonderful metaphor, that puzzle piece. Looking forward to watching both of your videos on Red Herrings. Thank you so very much.
Plot twist: A dog ate the final piece
This video rocks so much. The best, man, I've been looking for these concepts for long
I've been wondering about the first clue for months!!
I appreciated the red herring video! You always share practical information. But I'm not opposed to redoing it. I know you are always improving!
A thought I've been very intrigued by, lately, is how to use 3rd person narration voices to support a cosmic horror-type vibe. Like, a guide for things you generally shouldn't do/say, and what might not even be bad ideas for this. Including any helpful story structures, if you see something unique about this genre!
If you get inspired sometime, I'd be very into a video with your thoughts and ideas :)
Thank you :) I know some people found it helpful but I knew I could do it better, so I just have to, haha!
Interesting! POV is one of the things I know very little about actually. Someone I'd recommend who knows a lot about that is Claire Fraise. Worth checking out.
Joe an animator now? Now you my guy, are incredible! So underrated
Thank you! Haha, I'm a jack of all trades it seems XD
My goal for 2022 is to write a mystery story on wattpad. I'm glad I watched your video, it was insightful. I'll be binge watching so I can learn a lot. Thank you for sharing this information!
Oh amazing! Best of luck with your story, you can do it!
So practical 😃thx
This was extremely helpful! Thank you!!
Wow!! So helpful. Plus great presentation 😄
Great video as always. Always a big help for my current novel. Thanks!!!
Thanks for helping me in my essay!
what a beautiful animation, I love it.
Thank you. It was super fun to make!
thanks! this vid was very helpful
love the animations
love the video 👍❤️
this video is soooo good oh my god
No one in the world would bat an eye at a single puzzle piece unless it were covered in blood or something.
i love the animation
I want to ask you a question. Is mystery a complete story in itself? Like what happens after the last clue is found? And isn't it the element of betrayal that's going to come into play when they suddenly find the last piece of the puzzle? I hope I am making myself clear, like understand that this is the centre of the story, but what happens around it or what the antagonist is doing meanwhile our character is reaching close to him?
You can define "story" in whatever way is easiest for you to understand. I see a mystery as an individual story with very defined story events that lead up to the reveal. That mystery story can run parallel to other stories. For example, if you have a betrayal in your story, that would be a "relationship" story in a sense because it's between 2 people. That betrayal will have it's own individual story events that lead up to that betrayal. But you could have a mystery story along side it, so the betrayal (1. relationship story event) would simultaneously be part of a mystery reveal (2. mystery story event). I would separate the story into 2. You'd have 2 stories to write with their own individual story events that coincide at the end. That's my way of seeing it.
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller cool.
Such interesting topic,. What kind of clue can their be with a government officials cover up. Such as deleted video footage film. In order to frame a person,. I wonder how many people would ask for the film footage . The clue is so many camera everywhere.
The real puzzle pieces were the friends we made along the way
One piece 😂
The empty box probably has a picture of the finished puzzle on the lid. Right? [Hmm.] Maybe it's one of those 'Wasgij' puzzle where the picture on the lid is of a bunch of people reacting to the picture which you're trying to solve by doing the jigsaw? Or maybe the picture has been ripped off? Maybe there's a sheet of instructions in the bottom of the box with tantalizingly incomplete clues?
Lord of the rings. 1. How does the character stumble across the first clue? Bilbo literally stumbles across the ring. 2. What is the puzzle box? The fact it turns him invisible when worn. 3. Where does (Gandalf) begin searching for clues? He keeps an eye on Bilbo and notices he's not aging, then he goes to Minas Tirith and researches the history of the one ring, then he captures Gollum and questions him, then he goes to Isengard to confront Saruman with his conclusion (and gets captured by him.) -Then the rest of the story happens. But that's okay, most of the story was an adventure story, not a mystery story. It just had an element of mystery around the ring when it first showed up.
Interesting video, and quite helpful. Thanks for making and uploading this.
could the first clue be finding a dead body or something like that? like, introducing the crime?
I only realized a week ago that my story had a mystery, in a way, though more of a "who done it." Glad to head you'll do another red herring video. Example: I think, in the first Harry Potter book, letting the reader/audience think Snape was after Harry would be a red herring, yes? What another book or movie example? Oh, look! A mood board video. See you there. ;)
It absolutely would! As a matter of fact, Snape is the first character I ever studied when learning about red herrings.
Great video.👍I had a question. How do you answer questions in a novel ? What ways do you use to get to the answers ?
Thank you! I'm happy to answer your question although could you elaborate a little bit?
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller Sure. While writing a story, we come across questions(regarding character, conflict, etc.) which needs to be answered to move ahead. I wanted to know what techniques do you use when you are stuck in a story (by these questions) ?
could a character be presented a puzzle box with only one piece in it? and that is the beginning of the story?
Q U A L I T Y content right here
What if some pieces of the puzzle are destroyed and can never be found.
It should be found, otherwise, it would be a hopeless struggle right?
Or the character gets close to finding the last piece and the perpetrator is a loved one. Oh, no!