knowledge is knowing a cherry tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not biting down on it before its completely inside the mouth to avoid spurting tomato juice in a way that is uncomfortable to witness
I kinda disagree. If you've read the book, you know it was from a place of loneliness, and the monster (Adam, as some call him) was plagued by the same loneliness. They both needed genuine connection
I find it infinitely fascinating that Ecclesiastes 1:17 uses the word "...folly...", given how much this word and concept was a point of contention (I refrain from giving further details to of course avoid spoiling the wonderfully written story).
When ignorance becomes virtue it is the sign of viced cowards being the head of power which do not want to embrace death alone for they require graveal company before the proper time and turn of each.
I also feel a bit bad for how Denethor was depicted in the movies. John Noble did an amazing job, and I do not fault his performance in any way, but Denethor in the books was actually a bit mightier and tougher than the movies would have you believe. He largely resisted Sauron’s direct influence through the palantir over many years, something that few others could have done, and even though he succumbed to despair and hysterical grief at the end he never ended up directly serving Sauron like Saruman largely did (though Saruman also had other agendas and factors at play). The movies get a similar gist and plot across, but the books almost seem more tragic with the few extra details of how Denethor actually was quite strong of a ruler and individual at the beginning, only to fall to his incomplete knowledge and despair at the end.
I was really surprised that we never got him using the Palantir. closest thing we got was Aragorn using it but it isn't clear that it was Denethor's. I don't even know if it was.
Yeah, they didn't explain Denethor that well in the movies. I only really understood him and his actions at the end when I read the books and got the greater context.
@@TheTytoGaurdian gotta give him some credit for not switching sides like Saruman. Lore experts seem to agree that while he gave in to despair, the fact that he could even bear the stare and words of Sauron without going *completely* out of his mind is a testament to how strong willed he was. But those are complex concepts so I can see why the filmmakers just focused on the result ... still wish it was there but the movies are such an incredible feat I'll live
I agree. While I loved the movies for the most part, they horribly mischaracterized both Faramir and Denethor. They made the former weak-willed and indecisive, with the bad excuse that it was to "allow him to grow as a character". They then turned around and made a complete mockery of their own excuse by making Denethor a mentally unstable clown from beginning to end instead of portraying him as a truly great leader who let his pride and jealousy conquer him and dissolve into madness and despair. I much prefer the 1981 BBC Radio adaptation's versions of the characters who were true to the book characters, even though they were voice-only.
I'm reminded of this quote from Skyrim by the Augur of Dunlain: "You seek that which all who wield magic seek. Knowledge. You shall find this: Knowledge will corrupt. It will destroy. It will consume. You seek meaning, shelter in Knowledge. You will not find it."
@@master_samwise I have come to think Peter Jackson's idea of LotR was moulded and templed a great deal by the council of people who understood more deeply Tolkien and were very humble. I'm convinced what we saw in the Hobbit is mostly owed to him being more prideful after his success.
@ I thought that, but many of the things I blamed the studio for, like splitting into 3 movies, were Peter Jackson decisions. He pressured the studio to get his three movies.
Too many people mistake tools that can help us lead better lives for gods that they can use to construct a perfect world according to them. Too many people like Denethor think knowledge puts them above other people and far too many people weaponize knowledge to control, dominate, and humiliate those around them like Odin. It's such an empty, sad way to view life and often blinds people to the very answers they claim to seek. Great work as always.
Sounds more like the problem isn't the knowledge itself, but the arrogance of the person who learns it. If knowledge is power, than it doesn't corrupt, only reveals who someone is. Wisdom and discipline are the first step.
@@JDog2656 Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Wisdom and discipline therefore are required to use power as ought to be and with virtue, not as willed to be and with selfishness.
@JDog2656 Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Therefore, wisdom and discipline are required to use power as ought to be and with virtue, not as willed to be and with selfishness. Unlike censoring comments used to silence harmless comments through AI, discernment as part of discipline and wisdom is a part to prevent misuse of power.
Thank you for this video. It came at just the right moment for me. I’ve been feeling the lure of despair so much lately. Many mornings I wake up paralyzed with anxiety because things outside of my control are making it so much harder to know what choices to make in my life and my family’s life. I try to learn about what is happening in the world and my country in order to make good decisions about what to do with my life and how to advise my teenage children about the many choices they will soon need to make, but the more I do that, the more despair and anxiety overwhelm me. Sometimes it feels like the forces of chaos and hate will swallow us all. Thank you for the reminder that despair is based on the false belief that we can predict the future, that we have ALL the knowledge about how everyone will act in the future. But no one can know that. We must remain humble and focus on doing what good we can in this world each day in whatever small way. I think I’m going to watch this video over and over again whenever I begin to feel the anxiety creep back in. Thank you! 🙏 ❤
@@ResurgentVoice thank you to Professor Tolkien for giving us these stories that mean so much! These kinds of comments absolutely make my day. I’m glad I could help in any way whatsoever. God bless!
That ending statement is poetry. In these times we do as needs must, survive what we can, improve things where we are able. The virtue of hope is one we overlook in modern times. We even fail to realize that hope is a virtue, rather than naive folly.
In ‘men without chests’ there a great statement- ‘no amount of ‘is’ will ever give you an ‘ought’’ that is, no amount of knowing facts will ever give you a path unless you have a philosophy. Is the way things are the way they should be? No amount of knowing the way things are will give you that answer.
I love your videos, but I especially love your LOTR deep dives. Makes me look at stuff that I never thought of before. Keep them coming, and I'll always be here to watch your videos.
“If my knowledge embraced the whole of creation, what good what it do me in God’s sight? It is by my actions that He will judge me.” - à Kempis, the Imitation of Christ.
Thanks for almost making me cry with those last few minutes. Jesus calls us not to despair but to take hope in the promises of God. We are called to love our friends and enemies alike. Much like Denethor we can come to trust what we know and what we see but reality and truth is so much more than we realize. “Don’t lean on your own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight”
It’s interesting. I’m listening to the Fellowship on Audible and it never struck me at how sweet Gandalf is. I’m in the beginning but for some reason this time around seeing him making fireworks and giving the people a show for Bilbo’s birthday just seemed so sweet.
I think you are underselling yourself, given the state of storytelling today, it has never been more important for caring souls to remind of the glories of stories that move the hearts of men. why they matter, and what they do to accomplish these feats. In doing so, if even a few future storytellers view your channel, you help guide stories yet untold, and their future audiences to a better place.
Knowledge wasn't Denethor's downfall, it was the lack of wisdom to see how such knowledge can be twisted by Sauron's will. And, frankly, the lack of wisdom that gave Denethor the hubris that HE was Sauron's equal, else the man would never have looked into the Panthir (spelling, I know).
“O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.” - 2 Nephi 9: 28-29
Never fully understanding or appreciating a story that's far in the past is definitely expected. But we can see how Tolkiens timeless themes ring true even now. Denethor was once a respected nobleman but I do appreciate that there are hints of the man he once was too. Like when Pippin is offering his services. A rare time when he seems genuinely grateful makes his fall from grace all the more meaningful.
13:05 I instantly thought of the parallels between what you're saying and the Bible to Christians. You can know all of the scholarly things, but every time you revisit something you've read dozens or hundreds of time, there is still more to be revealed within. Proverbs 9:10 ESV [10] The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Knowledge and intelligence does not always mean you make the best decisions. Someone may be very intelligent and make poor decisions because they are not wise. Wisdom > Intelligence
Bro that Halo music was somehow perfect for this. Very nice touch. Also that’s a great take on wisdom vs knowledge. A dictionary or a thesaurus knows many things and yet they are not counted wise.
Humility is and underrated and LIBERATING virtue. There is something profoundly freeing about realizing you aren't God and shouldn't play god. Playing god and winding up the ruler of your own little world with only your own limited self for company and nothing greater than yourself with no one to save you is... hell. Humility is the way out of that trap.
“The most powerful weapon to conquer the devil is humility. For, as he does not know at all how to employ it, neither does he know how to defend himself from it.” - St. Vincent de Paul
I just discovered your channel through this video. And I’ve watched you for about an hour now and I just need to tell you you’re an amazing content creator and thank you for all the well put together video essays!! You have great taste in literature, movies and games my friend.
"I am not enough, I cannot do it all, I will never know it all. And that is as it should be. The world may be dark and getting darker but my job is not to overcome that darkness. Instead, I simply need to fight that darkness, to love those whom I am called to love the best I can and, of course, to hope." What an ending.
Denethor II is a great character. Deeply flawed, but not an out-and-out villain. I think, other than his pride, his greatest downfall was his love of Boromir. Once he lost his favorite son, despair mastered him.
in the Poetic Edda, there is a poem in which Odin shares his words of wisdom. One of the memorable stanzas, was while he praised the pursuit of wisdom, he also warned not to be "too" wise, for it will only bring sadness. And for those who watched Rick and Morty, an apparent recuring theme is "knowledge cynicism", that the more you know, the unhappier you become as that knowledge bring to a realization that there is no happy ending, and that fixation on that ending robs happiness in the now.
It's part of the Jupiter movement from Gustav Holst's Planets suite. The melody is commonly used for the hymns Oh God Beyond all Praising and I Vow to Thee, My Country.
Hey man I love the videos and have watched a BUNCH. I saw your video on Major Winters from Band of Brothers and thought it was phenomenal. I was wondering if I could ask you to please do a video on Lipton. He is also a PHENOMENAL leader and imo deserves a video of his own as well.
Old Dilbert strip. Dogbert: Why do you read so much? Dilbert: When I read I increase my knowledge. Knowledge is power. Dogbert: But power corrupts. And corruption is crime. And crime doesn’t pay. IF YOU KEEP READING, WE’LL GO BROKE! Dilbert staring at his discarded book: It always seemed so harmless. Dogbert: That’s exactly what those librarians want you to think.
This point is further spoken of in the books when aragorn tells a blabby apothecary to shut up and lead him to someone who knows where to find what aragorn needs to need heal people.
In my opinion in both cases it is their coping mechanism for lack of faith. Instead of having faith in understanding if their path is morally right or not, they'd rather try to dig, dig deeper to see what to do to BE RIGHT. Like instead studying diligently for an exam, you'd rather try to look ways to cheat. Because that seems like an easier way, even if it's wrong.
Denethor would've been a far more interesting character in the film if they'd acknowledged his use of the Palantir and the role that had played in bringing him to despair.
10:40 On gaining knowledge and being humbled or turned mad. This reminds me, somewhat, of Lex Luthor in All-Star Superman. It was only when he had the same power as Superman that he realized just how awful and petty he was.
That's how people are at the present. Because the internet and all of our information people think we have it all. There is less wisdom and relying on the important stuff at present 😭
I love your content and I always agree with your commentary and philosophy but the thing about every one of your videos that consistently blows me away is your choice of background music. You are a man of fine tastes!
Great video! I’d make an amendment though: I don’t think knowledge has to be “useful” to be good- at least not in the way we usually think of usefulness. There are certain things worth knowing simply in order to be able to contemplate their beauty and goodness. For example, I don’t think knowledge about the stars gives us any material benefits. But it can help us to appreciate the greatness of creation. While I agree that “useless” knowledge can encourage certain vices, thinking of knowledge only in terms of usefulness has its own dangers (see Saruman). Ultimately, I think the distinction between “good” knowledge and “bad” knowledge is not about usefulness, but whether the knowledge in question encourages virtue. These could be moral virtues (like prudence, courage), but also what Aristotle calls intellectual virtue (contemplation). I think “usefulness” is relevant when discussing how a piece of knowledge may help us make certain technical advances. But the goodness or badness of these technical advances depend, themselves, on whether or not we use them virtuously
While the folly of knowledge is usually a theme found in cosmic horror, Tolkien's work would not have us despair of it the way we would with Lovecraft. Knowledge asks what can we do when we know we are not the sole masters of our fate, wisdom answers we can ride out to meet it.
Unrelated to the video but have you read Terry Pratchett's DiscWorld series? Especially the Sam Vimes books in the series. I would love to see a video on Sam Vimes.
This thought process is very similar to to one I've had about D&D and similar systems. My thought is that there could be another ability score added to the system, knowledge. I could see a system where they have Intelligence, Wisdom, Knowledge, and Charisma. A simple farmer may not Know much outside of their expertise, but they could be very intelligent in the same way that Denethor is very knowledgeable whilst also being incredibly dumb (in certain areas) and unwise (in most areas).
You videos always gives me food for thought. Have you ever watched the TV series Peaky Blinders? It would be awesome to hear you breakdown Tommy’s character.
1:56 citation: LR 5.01.078 2:10 citation: LR 5.04.116 2:46 citation: LR 5.04.121 3:59 citation: LR 5.01.138 5:32 citation: LR 5.09.058-059 6:40 citation: LR 5.04.157
I wonder what Odin would have found if he turned his same obsession to the red spiraling oblivion above Kratos' home (or that he was falling into during the DLC) rather than the green rift.
*"Wisdom is earned by listening, but not solely in what we (choose to) hear."* --DD2 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ --Diamond Dragons (series)
This subject is quite fascinating master samwise. It reminds of Sylens in Horizon Zero Dawn. In the origin he was a Banuk, a monk in search for answers.about the functioning of nature and machines as almost divine beings, to the point of infusing machines in their bodies. Only to become hungrier for knowledge when understanding about the ancient world and their technology. To the point of waking Armageddon itself just because it promised knowledge. Alors, in contrary, learns the same truth as sylens, but acts with the wisdom and humility taught to her by Ross and therefore being the new voice of wisdom for her era as Dr. Sobeck was against the folly of Ted Faro.
I think i finally understand Jedi Survivor, but i could be coping. I get why Cal and them did what they did at the end: they gave into despare and began acting in desperation, rather than with a clear head. As much as I like to think he already learned to cut his losses (literally) in the first game and that Survivor was contrivedly putting him at rock bottom, they were likely acting in desperation. I hope they're just doing that to demonstrate (to young men in similarly terrible circumstances) how to climb out of an addiction, or degenerated lifestyle. As much as i want him to resolve his problem independently with the lessons he learned, and that they WON'T make it all about Cere's Ghost spelling out the lesson or Merrin & the kid coaxing/dragging him to victory, I trust (in vain) they will pay off Survivor's end.
As I watch this, I wonder what Denethor would look like in armour, had he done what he supposed to do and led the armies of Gondor in battle. Honestly, the thought freaks me out. He seems so removed from dirt and every day life that I can't picture him in anything but fine robes. And it makes me wonder if he loved Boromir so much not only because they were so alike but because he missed his soldier days and lived vicariously through Boromir. Did he hate Faramir because, as the studious one, Faramir represented the sort of quiet, peaceful, orderly life that Denethor found himself in and hated?
I think that part of Denethors "problem" with Faramir was the respect Faramir had with old ways, days when men of his kind had been closer to the wisdom of the elves. Denethor and Boromir were not really happy with them being part of a line of stewards, as Denethors point is that in a another kingdom rulers become kings faster but in a land as royalistic as Gondor not ten thousand years would be enough.
In one of your previous videos I saw you had the Stormlight Archive, so I assume you read fantasy. Would you ever do videos on fantasy books and series?
@@master_samwise Didn't realize you already made one on SA - what other series have you read that you would consider making videos on? Would certainly be interested in you doing a Dalinar or Kaladin deep dive
While I understand the greater message you're saying, I think you don't give the credit Denethor deserves. He ruled and protected Gondor for a long time using the Palinter. The knowledge he gained from the stone was ABSOLUTELY helpful and he only ever fell to Sauron's manipulations after Borimere's death and Faramere being wounded. It took years, heartbreak, and loss for Sauron to find an opening. He had wisdom and strength. It was only towards the end that he lost it. Denethor was mighty among the men of Gondor, and although I mostly dislike him for how he treated his sons, you can't deny that held fast for his people and kept the vigil over Mordor. He was both wise and strong, but no one can stay that way forever. I don't think his despair at the end of his life should define the actions and wisdom he held for the majority of it. Sauron never corrupted the man. He probably interacted with Denethor on a regular basis and the best he achieved was manipulated him into despair after he had lost his sons. The man was a legend.
I alluded to it briefly, but yes Denethor was absolutely a great man, and it's a shame we only see him at the end of his life, when he has already been corrupted and driven to despair.
While Denethor was a strong willed man, like his firstborn, he, like generations of stewards, before him seemed to have hard time accepting that the royal line of the north kingdom could step up and regain the rule of Gondor. So I think part of the Palantir problem was the will to show "we are in control". Even the strong And rightful, by heritage, user of these stones Aragorn had to struggle hard with Sauron to take over the control over the Orthanc stone.
Hey, a question: do you watch anime? there are some very great shows out there that would be amazing to see an analysis made by you but since i never saw you talking about one i got to wonder if you disliked those. Animes like Sousou no Frieren, Re:Zero, are amazing in their character and world building, if you can, please consider them.
I wonder if you could make a similar case for Paul and LetoI II in Dune. The knowledge of the future drives them to do terrible things, but how much of that was just due to them being influenced by knowledge of the future?
Have you finished Wind and Truth? I thought it was awesome maybe not my favorite of the archive i think Oathbringer is my favorite but Wind and Truth is definitely a close second maybe tied with Way of Kings. Anyway all this to ask have you finished it and did you like it?
There is no death in trying but if you just stay idle it will take thee. .Tick-tock you're on the clock.. With sufficient knowledge the sum totality of possible objectives can be obtained - that is adamant, disregard of it shows maleficent ignorance. --It is impossible to tell if it is usefull or useless, good or evil if not put to trial by examination of at least a member of that family of the concept which you study. --Hindsight is 20/20 but it makes the children arrogant.
A parallel thought is that logic is a great servant but a terrible master Coz with cold logic feeding the homeless to the starving could seem like a fix to two issues
Both men were cowards, that's that easiest way to describe them. They knew the cold harsh reality and panicked, becoming a danger to themselves and everyone around them. Unfortunately this overreaction is not fictional.
Who are you to denigrate the lord Denothor? Have you borne the weight of responsibility of trying to protect your people from the Dark Lord? Have you suffered the grief of losing your beloved wife and soul mate? Have you raised such mighty sons as Boromir and Faramir? Have you had to deal with the death of your eldest son? Have you seen the inevitability of the destruction of all you hold dear? Under these circumstances most men would, I think, have done less well than Denothor!
So if I'm getting this right, when Sauron uses the Palantir to drive Denethor to despair, he's essentially making the Middle-earth equivalent of doomscrolling on the Internet. Flooding his mind with so much information that IS true while also lying by omission, via purposely obscuring and neglecting to show any real evidence that there's a chance of defying him.
Denethor was fed a selective knowledge: biased knowledge rife with lies of omission. His flaw was Pride, and he was victim of deceit and manipulation. It wasn't that he had knowledge; it was that he had only selected knowledge and saw it through a lens of Pride
Knowledge is knowing that Frankenstein was the man, not the monster. Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein was a monster.
knowledge is knowing a cherry tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not biting down on it before its completely inside the mouth to avoid spurting tomato juice in a way that is uncomfortable to witness
LOLOLOLOLOL
@@slythawyrda Had me rolling 😆
Pedantry is stating that the monster counts as a son of Victor Frankenstein, so frankenstein is both no matter what definitions you use.
I kinda disagree. If you've read the book, you know it was from a place of loneliness, and the monster (Adam, as some call him) was plagued by the same loneliness. They both needed genuine connection
“For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.”
-Ecclesiastes 1:18
My favorite book of the Bible.
I find it infinitely fascinating that Ecclesiastes 1:17 uses the word "...folly...", given how much this word and concept was a point of contention (I refrain from giving further details to of course avoid spoiling the wonderfully written story).
Great pull of a great piece of scripture.
When ignorance becomes virtue it is the sign of viced cowards being the head of power which do not want to embrace death alone for they require graveal company before the proper time and turn of each.
I also feel a bit bad for how Denethor was depicted in the movies. John Noble did an amazing job, and I do not fault his performance in any way, but Denethor in the books was actually a bit mightier and tougher than the movies would have you believe. He largely resisted Sauron’s direct influence through the palantir over many years, something that few others could have done, and even though he succumbed to despair and hysterical grief at the end he never ended up directly serving Sauron like Saruman largely did (though Saruman also had other agendas and factors at play).
The movies get a similar gist and plot across, but the books almost seem more tragic with the few extra details of how Denethor actually was quite strong of a ruler and individual at the beginning, only to fall to his incomplete knowledge and despair at the end.
I was really surprised that we never got him using the Palantir. closest thing we got was Aragorn using it but it isn't clear that it was Denethor's. I don't even know if it was.
Yeah, they didn't explain Denethor that well in the movies. I only really understood him and his actions at the end when I read the books and got the greater context.
@@TheTytoGaurdian gotta give him some credit for not switching sides like Saruman. Lore experts seem to agree that while he gave in to despair, the fact that he could even bear the stare and words of Sauron without going *completely* out of his mind is a testament to how strong willed he was. But those are complex concepts so I can see why the filmmakers just focused on the result ... still wish it was there but the movies are such an incredible feat I'll live
I agree. While I loved the movies for the most part, they horribly mischaracterized both Faramir and Denethor. They made the former weak-willed and indecisive, with the bad excuse that it was to "allow him to grow as a character". They then turned around and made a complete mockery of their own excuse by making Denethor a mentally unstable clown from beginning to end instead of portraying him as a truly great leader who let his pride and jealousy conquer him and dissolve into madness and despair. I much prefer the 1981 BBC Radio adaptation's versions of the characters who were true to the book characters, even though they were voice-only.
@@IDieHardForeverIt isn’t Denthors. It’s Saruman’s that Pippin picks up.
I'm reminded of this quote from Skyrim by the Augur of Dunlain: "You seek that which all who wield magic seek. Knowledge. You shall find this: Knowledge will corrupt. It will destroy. It will consume. You seek meaning, shelter in Knowledge. You will not find it."
So... I've never played Skyrim. Is it still worth it 13 years later?
@@master_samwise Yes
If you've never played it, it is quite fun. But I haven't really played through the story in a while. Perhaps more video material?
The Augur, Paarthurnax and Arngeir have the best quotes and are in general fan favorites from skyrim
@@master_samwise absolutely worth it. It's still one of my go to games
Something about Halo Combat Evolved music over Lord of the Rings commentary is just so good
For certain
Denethor was doom scrolling with that Palantir.
What you said about the silly scene with Gandalf and the Witch King... immediate sub, like, and notifications on
Peter Jackson did so many things right with the movies, but some of his decisions were just mind bogglingly out of place.
@@master_samwise Agreed. That also unfortunately was even more prominent in the Hobbit movies as well.
@@master_samwise I have come to think Peter Jackson's idea of LotR was moulded and templed a great deal by the council of people who understood more deeply Tolkien and were very humble. I'm convinced what we saw in the Hobbit is mostly owed to him being more prideful after his success.
No it's because the studio they destroyed everything @@Jayako12
@ I thought that, but many of the things I blamed the studio for, like splitting into 3 movies, were Peter Jackson decisions. He pressured the studio to get his three movies.
Too many people mistake tools that can help us lead better lives for gods that they can use to construct a perfect world according to them. Too many people like Denethor think knowledge puts them above other people and far too many people weaponize knowledge to control, dominate, and humiliate those around them like Odin. It's such an empty, sad way to view life and often blinds people to the very answers they claim to seek. Great work as always.
Sounds more like the problem isn't the knowledge itself, but the arrogance of the person who learns it. If knowledge is power, than it doesn't corrupt, only reveals who someone is. Wisdom and discipline are the first step.
@@JDog2656 Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Wisdom and discipline therefore are required to use power as ought to be and with virtue, not as willed to be and with selfishness.
@JDog2656 Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Therefore, wisdom and discipline are required to use power as ought to be and with virtue, not as willed to be and with selfishness. Unlike censoring comments used to silence harmless comments through AI, discernment as part of discipline and wisdom is a part to prevent misuse of power.
Thank you for this video. It came at just the right moment for me. I’ve been feeling the lure of despair so much lately. Many mornings I wake up paralyzed with anxiety because things outside of my control are making it so much harder to know what choices to make in my life and my family’s life. I try to learn about what is happening in the world and my country in order to make good decisions about what to do with my life and how to advise my teenage children about the many choices they will soon need to make, but the more I do that, the more despair and anxiety overwhelm me. Sometimes it feels like the forces of chaos and hate will swallow us all. Thank you for the reminder that despair is based on the false belief that we can predict the future, that we have ALL the knowledge about how everyone will act in the future. But no one can know that. We must remain humble and focus on doing what good we can in this world each day in whatever small way. I think I’m going to watch this video over and over again whenever I begin to feel the anxiety creep back in. Thank you! 🙏 ❤
@@ResurgentVoice thank you to Professor Tolkien for giving us these stories that mean so much!
These kinds of comments absolutely make my day. I’m glad I could help in any way whatsoever. God bless!
This might be the best video I ever saw on youtube and I didn't even watched it completly, because I don't want to spoiler myself about god of war.
That ending statement is poetry. In these times we do as needs must, survive what we can, improve things where we are able. The virtue of hope is one we overlook in modern times. We even fail to realize that hope is a virtue, rather than naive folly.
In ‘men without chests’ there a great statement- ‘no amount of ‘is’ will ever give you an ‘ought’’ that is, no amount of knowing facts will ever give you a path unless you have a philosophy. Is the way things are the way they should be? No amount of knowing the way things are will give you that answer.
I love your videos, but I especially love your LOTR deep dives. Makes me look at stuff that I never thought of before. Keep them coming, and I'll always be here to watch your videos.
“If my knowledge embraced the whole of creation, what good what it do me in God’s sight? It is by my actions that He will judge me.” - à Kempis, the Imitation of Christ.
"Knowledge is power. Guard it well"
Honestly really needed to hear this today. Thank you so much for all your work!
Please continue to keep up the amazing work. The world needs the lessens taught by Tolkien now more then ever.
On the other side, I loved Arcane's depiction of how Heimerdinger was frustratingly concerned about knowledge, progress and ambition
Feel like the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise fits for this as well!
Denethor watched doomer gen Z videos so much he actually became insane
Finished watching the extended versions of the movies and the flashback with Denethor and his sons is so crucial to their story
Thanks for almost making me cry with those last few minutes.
Jesus calls us not to despair but to take hope in the promises of God. We are called to love our friends and enemies alike.
Much like Denethor we can come to trust what we know and what we see but reality and truth is so much more than we realize. “Don’t lean on your own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight”
It’s interesting. I’m listening to the Fellowship on Audible and it never struck me at how sweet Gandalf is. I’m in the beginning but for some reason this time around seeing him making fireworks and giving the people a show for Bilbo’s birthday just seemed so sweet.
I think you are underselling yourself, given the state of storytelling today, it has never been more important for caring souls to remind of the glories of stories that move the hearts of men. why they matter, and what they do to accomplish these feats. In doing so, if even a few future storytellers view your channel, you help guide stories yet untold, and their future audiences to a better place.
Knowledge wasn't Denethor's downfall, it was the lack of wisdom to see how such knowledge can be twisted by Sauron's will. And, frankly, the lack of wisdom that gave Denethor the hubris that HE was Sauron's equal, else the man would never have looked into the Panthir (spelling, I know).
😮That was amazing, I love the music!
“O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.
But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.”
- 2 Nephi 9: 28-29
"Knowledge is power but wisdom is liberty." Will Durant, 1941
Never fully understanding or appreciating a story that's far in the past is definitely expected. But we can see how Tolkiens timeless themes ring true even now. Denethor was once a respected nobleman but I do appreciate that there are hints of the man he once was too. Like when Pippin is offering his services. A rare time when he seems genuinely grateful makes his fall from grace all the more meaningful.
13:05 I instantly thought of the parallels between what you're saying and the Bible to Christians. You can know all of the scholarly things, but every time you revisit something you've read dozens or hundreds of time, there is still more to be revealed within.
Proverbs 9:10 ESV
[10] The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Knowledge and intelligence does not always mean you make the best decisions. Someone may be very intelligent and make poor decisions because they are not wise. Wisdom > Intelligence
Bro that Halo music was somehow perfect for this. Very nice touch. Also that’s a great take on wisdom vs knowledge.
A dictionary or a thesaurus knows many things and yet they are not counted wise.
Humility is and underrated and LIBERATING virtue. There is something profoundly freeing about realizing you aren't God and shouldn't play god. Playing god and winding up the ruler of your own little world with only your own limited self for company and nothing greater than yourself with no one to save you is... hell. Humility is the way out of that trap.
“The most powerful weapon to conquer the devil is humility. For, as he does not know at all how to employ it, neither does he know how to defend himself from it.” - St. Vincent de Paul
I just discovered your channel through this video. And I’ve watched you for about an hour now and I just need to tell you you’re an amazing content creator and thank you for all the well put together video essays!! You have great taste in literature, movies and games my friend.
@@codster279 thank you!
We are not enough and in the end when our wills are at their end and our bodies are broken we let God do the rest.
This guy casually dropped an incredible psychological examination and branded it as a LoTR video.
"I am not enough, I cannot do it all, I will never know it all. And that is as it should be. The world may be dark and getting darker but my job is not to overcome that darkness. Instead, I simply need to fight that darkness, to love those whom I am called to love the best I can and, of course, to hope."
What an ending.
Since I was young, I've considered Denethor's story a cautionary tale about watching too much TV news
11:51 "Even the very wise can't see all ends"?
Obligatory Preemptive like has been dropped ❤️ keep up the fantastic videos 🫶🫶🫶🫶
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Denethor the Knowledgable?
I thought not. It's not a story the maiar will tell you.
Denethor II is a great character. Deeply flawed, but not an out-and-out villain. I think, other than his pride, his greatest downfall was his love of Boromir. Once he lost his favorite son, despair mastered him.
in the Poetic Edda, there is a poem in which Odin shares his words of wisdom. One of the memorable stanzas, was while he praised the pursuit of wisdom, he also warned not to be "too" wise, for it will only bring sadness.
And for those who watched Rick and Morty, an apparent recuring theme is "knowledge cynicism", that the more you know, the unhappier you become as that knowledge bring to a realization that there is no happy ending, and that fixation on that ending robs happiness in the now.
From one Tolkien fan to another, great video. Also what song is it that starts at 11:58?
It's part of the Jupiter movement from Gustav Holst's Planets suite. The melody is commonly used for the hymns Oh God Beyond all Praising and I Vow to Thee, My Country.
Hey man I love the videos and have watched a BUNCH. I saw your video on Major Winters from Band of Brothers and thought it was phenomenal. I was wondering if I could ask you to please do a video on Lipton. He is also a PHENOMENAL leader and imo deserves a video of his own as well.
It's my favorite movie of all time too but there are still things in it i have big problems with including that scene.
Old Dilbert strip.
Dogbert: Why do you read so much?
Dilbert: When I read I increase my knowledge. Knowledge is power.
Dogbert: But power corrupts. And corruption is crime. And crime doesn’t pay. IF YOU KEEP READING, WE’LL GO BROKE!
Dilbert staring at his discarded book: It always seemed so harmless.
Dogbert: That’s exactly what those librarians want you to think.
This point is further spoken of in the books when aragorn tells a blabby apothecary to shut up and lead him to someone who knows where to find what aragorn needs to need heal people.
In my opinion in both cases it is their coping mechanism for lack of faith. Instead of having faith in understanding if their path is morally right or not, they'd rather try to dig, dig deeper to see what to do to BE RIGHT. Like instead studying diligently for an exam, you'd rather try to look ways to cheat. Because that seems like an easier way, even if it's wrong.
ok that was a fire video
Denethor would've been a far more interesting character in the film if they'd acknowledged his use of the Palantir and the role that had played in bringing him to despair.
He definitely hints at it when he talks about Aragorn, but it never shows up IIRC, even in the extended edition.
10:40
On gaining knowledge and being humbled or turned mad.
This reminds me, somewhat, of Lex Luthor in All-Star Superman.
It was only when he had the same power as Superman that he realized just how awful and petty he was.
That's how people are at the present. Because the internet and all of our information people think we have it all. There is less wisdom and relying on the important stuff at present 😭
I love your content and I always agree with your commentary and philosophy but the thing about every one of your videos that consistently blows me away is your choice of background music. You are a man of fine tastes!
Great video! I’d make an amendment though: I don’t think knowledge has to be “useful” to be good- at least not in the way we usually think of usefulness. There are certain things worth knowing simply in order to be able to contemplate their beauty and goodness. For example, I don’t think knowledge about the stars gives us any material benefits. But it can help us to appreciate the greatness of creation. While I agree that “useless” knowledge can encourage certain vices, thinking of knowledge only in terms of usefulness has its own dangers (see Saruman).
Ultimately, I think the distinction between “good” knowledge and “bad” knowledge is not about usefulness, but whether the knowledge in question encourages virtue. These could be moral virtues (like prudence, courage), but also what Aristotle calls intellectual virtue (contemplation).
I think “usefulness” is relevant when discussing how a piece of knowledge may help us make certain technical advances. But the goodness or badness of these technical advances depend, themselves, on whether or not we use them virtuously
Uneducated search for knowledge is destructive. As Prahhotep says, knowledge brings joy.
so cult masters in universities teaching sex studies are arbiters of knowledge ?
While the folly of knowledge is usually a theme found in cosmic horror, Tolkien's work would not have us despair of it the way we would with Lovecraft. Knowledge asks what can we do when we know we are not the sole masters of our fate, wisdom answers we can ride out to meet it.
so good
The only the thing i will say is what is more important then knowing you must give knowledge to others is knowing when to give it to others.
So the Palantir as outlined basically are the internet, especially social media? Excuse me, I have to go and throw my phone and laptop in mount doom!
This is the way.
Knowledge without wisdom is ruin
"Lord Denethor, a second army has issued from the Black Gate. Gondor is under attack."
Unrelated to the video but have you read Terry Pratchett's DiscWorld series? Especially the Sam Vimes books in the series. I would love to see a video on Sam Vimes.
I have not, but have seen them mentioned many times!
This thought process is very similar to to one I've had about D&D and similar systems. My thought is that there could be another ability score added to the system, knowledge. I could see a system where they have Intelligence, Wisdom, Knowledge, and Charisma. A simple farmer may not Know much outside of their expertise, but they could be very intelligent in the same way that Denethor is very knowledgeable whilst also being incredibly dumb (in certain areas) and unwise (in most areas).
Now if you apply this principle to the various partisan news sources, an interesting thing happens!
You videos always gives me food for thought. Have you ever watched the TV series Peaky Blinders? It would be awesome to hear you breakdown Tommy’s character.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste
1:56 citation: LR 5.01.078
2:10 citation: LR 5.04.116
2:46 citation: LR 5.04.121
3:59 citation: LR 5.01.138
5:32 citation: LR 5.09.058-059
6:40 citation: LR 5.04.157
I wonder what Odin would have found if he turned his same obsession to the red spiraling oblivion above Kratos' home (or that he was falling into during the DLC) rather than the green rift.
You should do a video on Miquella of the Haligtree. A very complex character. I’d love to hear your take.
*"Wisdom is earned by listening, but not solely in what we (choose to) hear."* --DD2
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
--Diamond Dragons (series)
This subject is quite fascinating master samwise. It reminds of Sylens in Horizon Zero Dawn. In the origin he was a Banuk, a monk in search for answers.about the functioning of nature and machines as almost divine beings, to the point of infusing machines in their bodies. Only to become hungrier for knowledge when understanding about the ancient world and their technology. To the point of waking Armageddon itself just because it promised knowledge. Alors, in contrary, learns the same truth as sylens, but acts with the wisdom and humility taught to her by Ross and therefore being the new voice of wisdom for her era as Dr. Sobeck was against the folly of Ted Faro.
I think i finally understand Jedi Survivor, but i could be coping. I get why Cal and them did what they did at the end: they gave into despare and began acting in desperation, rather than with a clear head.
As much as I like to think he already learned to cut his losses (literally) in the first game and that Survivor was contrivedly putting him at rock bottom, they were likely acting in desperation. I hope they're just doing that to demonstrate (to young men in similarly terrible circumstances) how to climb out of an addiction, or degenerated lifestyle.
As much as i want him to resolve his problem independently with the lessons he learned, and that they WON'T make it all about Cere's Ghost spelling out the lesson or Merrin & the kid coaxing/dragging him to victory, I trust (in vain) they will pay off Survivor's end.
As I watch this, I wonder what Denethor would look like in armour, had he done what he supposed to do and led the armies of Gondor in battle. Honestly, the thought freaks me out. He seems so removed from dirt and every day life that I can't picture him in anything but fine robes. And it makes me wonder if he loved Boromir so much not only because they were so alike but because he missed his soldier days and lived vicariously through Boromir. Did he hate Faramir because, as the studious one, Faramir represented the sort of quiet, peaceful, orderly life that Denethor found himself in and hated?
I think that part of Denethors "problem" with Faramir was the respect Faramir had with old ways, days when men of his kind had been closer to the wisdom of the elves. Denethor and Boromir were not really happy with them being part of a line of stewards, as Denethors point is that in a another kingdom rulers become kings faster but in a land as royalistic as Gondor not ten thousand years would be enough.
In one of your previous videos I saw you had the Stormlight Archive, so I assume you read fantasy. Would you ever do videos on fantasy books and series?
I have a short video on the Stormlight Archive, but I would like to do more, specifically on character analysis of Dalinar, Kaladin, etc...
@@master_samwise Didn't realize you already made one on SA - what other series have you read that you would consider making videos on? Would certainly be interested in you doing a Dalinar or Kaladin deep dive
While I understand the greater message you're saying, I think you don't give the credit Denethor deserves. He ruled and protected Gondor for a long time using the Palinter. The knowledge he gained from the stone was ABSOLUTELY helpful and he only ever fell to Sauron's manipulations after Borimere's death and Faramere being wounded. It took years, heartbreak, and loss for Sauron to find an opening. He had wisdom and strength. It was only towards the end that he lost it.
Denethor was mighty among the men of Gondor, and although I mostly dislike him for how he treated his sons, you can't deny that held fast for his people and kept the vigil over Mordor. He was both wise and strong, but no one can stay that way forever. I don't think his despair at the end of his life should define the actions and wisdom he held for the majority of it. Sauron never corrupted the man. He probably interacted with Denethor on a regular basis and the best he achieved was manipulated him into despair after he had lost his sons. The man was a legend.
I alluded to it briefly, but yes Denethor was absolutely a great man, and it's a shame we only see him at the end of his life, when he has already been corrupted and driven to despair.
While Denethor was a strong willed man, like his firstborn, he, like generations of stewards, before him seemed to have hard time accepting that the royal line of the north kingdom could step up and regain the rule of Gondor. So I think part of the Palantir problem was the will to show "we are in control". Even the strong And rightful, by heritage, user of these stones Aragorn had to struggle hard with Sauron to take over the control over the Orthanc stone.
4:13 And approach floating giant rings I see.
It's far too easy to be like Denethor, far easier than the opposite.
Wisdom > Knowledge
Hey, a question: do you watch anime? there are some very great shows out there that would be amazing to see an analysis made by you but since i never saw you talking about one i got to wonder if you disliked those.
Animes like Sousou no Frieren, Re:Zero, are amazing in their character and world building, if you can, please consider them.
I wonder if you could make a similar case for Paul and LetoI II in Dune. The knowledge of the future drives them to do terrible things, but how much of that was just due to them being influenced by knowledge of the future?
Have you finished Wind and Truth? I thought it was awesome maybe not my favorite of the archive i think Oathbringer is my favorite but Wind and Truth is definitely a close second maybe tied with Way of Kings. Anyway all this to ask have you finished it and did you like it?
What is your next video going to be about?
Yes
King Solomon said he that increases knowledge increases sorrow
The more you know, the less you know. Truly a curse.
There is no death in trying but if you just stay idle it will take thee. .Tick-tock you're on the clock.. With sufficient knowledge the sum totality of possible objectives can be obtained - that is adamant, disregard of it shows maleficent ignorance. --It is impossible to tell if it is usefull or useless, good or evil if not put to trial by examination of at least a member of that family of the concept which you study. --Hindsight is 20/20 but it makes the children arrogant.
A parallel thought is that logic is a great servant but a terrible master
Coz with cold logic feeding the homeless to the starving could seem like a fix to two issues
Both men were cowards, that's that easiest way to describe them. They knew the cold harsh reality and panicked, becoming a danger to themselves and everyone around them. Unfortunately this overreaction is not fictional.
Who are you to denigrate the lord Denothor?
Have you borne the weight of responsibility of trying to protect your people from the Dark Lord?
Have you suffered the grief of losing your beloved wife and soul mate?
Have you raised such mighty sons as Boromir and Faramir?
Have you had to deal with the death of your eldest son?
Have you seen the inevitability of the destruction of all you hold dear?
Under these circumstances most men would, I think, have done less well than Denothor!
I agree.
So if I'm getting this right, when Sauron uses the Palantir to drive Denethor to despair, he's essentially making the Middle-earth equivalent of doomscrolling on the Internet. Flooding his mind with so much information that IS true while also lying by omission, via purposely obscuring and neglecting to show any real evidence that there's a chance of defying him.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
I am here early!
I am here exactly when I mean to.
I can only see Denethor as the dad in Fringe. Anyone else?😅
The halo music slaps
Denethor was fed a selective knowledge: biased knowledge rife with lies of omission. His flaw was Pride, and he was victim of deceit and manipulation. It wasn't that he had knowledge; it was that he had only selected knowledge and saw it through a lens of Pride
I'm a fool, I know nothing
I may sound like a silly clown
But I won't turn my back on life
Denethor thought he was wise. Yet for all his knowledge, he had not wisdom.
did you seriously just play Lord Gwyn's theme when talking about Denethor?
Knowledge only has utilitarian value?