Unveiling the dark underbelly of faith healing: its my fault I lost my leg
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- Опубликовано: 13 ноя 2023
- Let's talk about the dark underbelly that they don't tell you about in "faith healing."
All clips of the "pastor" are from Andrew Wommack, someone with whom I vehemently disagree but was extremely influential on the church and movement I'm speaking of here.
The website I was referencing is: whywontgodhealamputees.com
#FaithHealing #FaithHealers #FootlessJo
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My Amputation Story!
Fourteen years of pain and failed ankle surgeries brought me to 2018, when I made the difficult decision to become a twenty-seven-year-old below-the-knee elective amputee. This channel has documented my journey adjusting to life with a visible disability as an amputee, and continues to be a haven to discuss physical and mental health!
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As a Pastor, this man is nuts.
shut up & send me your MONEY !
Sounds to me like some of the nuts fell off the tree.
This guy needs to read Job...but really he would probably read it wrong and say it proves his point
They are all nuts.
Paul asked to be held and God said no, my grace is sufficient!!!
My Aunt had a highly removable and treatable tumor.
Due to the way she believed in God, she did not believe in doctors and refused surgical solutions.
It was clear she was highly depressed. It was clear she was in extreme pain. And it was clear she blamed herself.
She thought if she prayed more, if she was a better Christian, that her tumor would shrink on it’s own.
The woman was a fkn saint. She was the sweetest, most kindhearted and wholesome person I have EVER know in my 41 years of life.
Instead of having surgery she would have recovered from in about a month, she suffered and died, while her husband and children watched helplessly.
The people she left behind now blame themselves and all suffer from sever mental illness.
Her eight grandchildren are never going to meet her and experience the light she brought into every room.
All because a handful of people told her if god loved her, he would heal her, and if god did not heal her, then she deserved to die in pain.
She did not deserve it.
😢
I am sorry for your loss. For anyone trying to convince someone to accept medical care who is praying to be healed, tell them / remind them as nicely as you can that "God" doesn't answer prayers how we want. If you are praying to be cured "God" may have answered that prayer with medical discoveries and advances, allowing many prayers to be answered by us using the tools "God" gave us.
I hope what I am trying to say makes sense. I know many of curtain belief structures will never take medical care to answer their prayers, but we don't get to choose how they are answered and we don't get to blame "God" when we don't take advantage of the life saving solutions that are already available.
I can't say I am still a believer, but I was a pastor's daughter and have seen too much of the ugly side of organized religions inner workings to not be completely jaded with how things can be twisted.
@@WildflowersCreations true. Too often, we want to put god in a box, as if *WE* are the ones in control.
Note that two thousand and more years ago, too much of the time it was “prayer or nothing.” If the person needed to go on - then they were healed, because that was the *only* solution available to them. Sometimes there weren’t people handy to do the praying, e.g. when Paul was “buried under a rock-pile.” (stoned.) He hadn’t finished the road set before him, so he was healed.
Sometimes, though - the person *has* finished, e.g. Steven (sp?).
Now, there *are* workable alternatives. To not attempt those doors is foolhardy, and potentially disobedient.
Medical or miracle, God heals.
God placed doctors on this Earth so that people COULD be healed and feel so much better in life. I’m sorry your aunt had so much fear in her life before she passed. She didn’t deserve that. God is love and kindness to ALL people, regardless of who they are and what they deal with. I hope that you’ve been able to find some peace. Love to you and your family.
My child was born with a birth defect because god needed me to know how strong I was. I was like do you hear what you are actually saying? God harmed my baby to teach me a lesson! That’s horrific. And all the prayers that were said for my daughter, never infused her skull sutures but a 12 hour surgery did. Amazing.
Medical or miracle it’s healing from God. God doesn’t cause bad things to happen.
@@MapleFlowers28 hahaha! God created evil.
@@MapleFlowers28 Has God not apparently created plagues before to harm people? 😂
Well yeah there can't be good without evil. It's logic if there is no bad how could you tell what was is good, it would be meaningless. If the whole entire universe was red the word red wouldn't truy mean anything because the word distinguishes it from other colors but there would be no other colors. Also really glad you daughter is okay.@@trishayamada807
As a Christian I have to disagree with you second statement God does cause bad stuff to happen. As someone already mention the plagues the distiocion that must be made is that God is not malicious and God is not responsible for every bad thing.@@MapleFlowers28
I mentioned to a christian friend i was considering getting tested for ADHD because i notice a lot of symptoms. Her reply was 'don't, god can heal everything'. Another christian friend refused taking epilepsy medication for the same reason. There are some really harmfull thoughts that come with religion.
God can heal anything as nothing is impossible for God. Medical or miracle is healing from God. ❤❤❤
It's unfortunate how easily anything can be perverted by humans. And I agree with Maple God gave us wonderful brains and talents that have produced medicine. Refusing medicine because God should just miraculously heal is like refusing clothing because God covered Adam and Eve in the garden and thus will cover you too.
@@MapleFlowers28God gave you and us a brain, and expects you and us to use it. Which is where Science comes in.
@@Pandie2828 i think it's mostly protestants where this is an issue. Catholics for example include a book in the biblical canon that has some great verses about trusting doctors.
@@Theresia66 Good to know, thanks
I am a wheelchair user and I've been asked if someone could pray for me only once (I've only used one for 4 years, 3 of which were pandemic times, I recognize there's time for that to change haha). I'd heard that people did this, so I was prepared. I was at work, training a student, and this pair of older ladies walked up and asked if they could pray for me. I asked them "why?" and I will never forget the look on their faces. It said everything I needed to know about how they saw me. Not as a young professional at work, but as a helpless individual that must lead a sad life worth praying for. They stumbled out something like, "well, we saw the wheelchair and didn't know if it was like an everyday thing, or...?" I said that it was, but that I was fine. We exchanged pleasantries and they went along their way and they didn't push anything on me which was nice. They seemed like very nice people, but I will never forget their shock at my return question "why?". Like, isn't it obvious why we would pray for you..? I hope it challenges their view of disabled people even just a little bit, because I'm tired of strangers assuming I am helpless. I need help sometimes (and I'll ask for it) but I am not helpless. Sure, I'd take a cure. But I'm not holding my breath and I'm loving my best life in the meantime.
I just ask them: "Do you get a recruiting bonus from your church, or are you this pushy normally?" I only use that when they are pushy. If they ask and I say no and they move on, I just ignore them.
can i use that tactic??? i've been a wheelchair user for most of my life and gotten that question hundreds of times before.
Honestly as a Christian, it saddens me that they clearly just approached you because they felt sorry for you. Frankly we should be praying for everyone no matter what their circumstances are, not singling people out.
Besides, God doesn’t always say yes to healing. One of the people I look up to the most in the Christian community is a woman named Joni Eareckson Tada. She became a quadriplegic at the age of 18; and 50-something years later, she’s still a quadriplegic. She’s slowly gained a few abilities, but she’s never going to be able to walk again. But it’s because of her disability that she’s been able to become the amazing speaker and author she is today. Same with Bethany Hamilton and her missing a limb. Her trauma made her into the person she is today. Sometimes it takes difficult times to become the person God wants you to be 😊
@@emmawilliams8119 No you shouldn't be praying for everyone! Nobody outside the Church actually wants you to pray for them. It is unethical to pray for someone without their permission. It is also presumptuous that you and your beliefs are better than everyone else's and therefore the rest of us need you to act on our behalf. That is such an egotistical thing to do. Not to mention it is my belief that unsolicited prayer not approved by the receiver is actually a curse! Please stop cursing strangers and people who don't want your pitty!
As a Christian, this makes me so angry. It's like the so-called prosperity gospel (are you poor? ain't got enough faith!) - a bunch of warped BS that has hurt so many people, including friends who are strong Christians. I am so very sorry that you were abused this way, and you are absolutely right, it was - and is - abuse.
It doesn't even make any logical sense with what Jesus taught-- it's just powerful people using their power abusively :(
🤣
@@laughheal8150 why are you laughing
@@-Teague- See their username - they're healing lol
This, and tithes... like the idea that poor people are STILL supposed to give 10% of their income... that 10% for a poorer person could be whether they eat well or not
I'm Christian, I live with cerebral palsy, my walk looks different. I was attending a Christian conference walking by the prayer booth; I was approached by someone who asked if he could pray for my healing. I said "no thanks" and I explained that I'm TOTALLY at peace with the way I am and God instead uses my condition for good to inspire others. Not only did this man not accept my answer and started praying anyway, but others joined him became very aggressive. And just as you mentioned, I wasn't made whole because I didn't believe enough. While I do appreciate the kindness behind prayer, but this was unacceptable. I complained to the organizers, the next year the prayer booth was gone. If you want to pray, please be respectful.
I guess you have the same version of CP that I do. Very good that we have accepted our conditions. We can express faith in other ways. I've had several other prayers answered in 2023 alone.
If you get a chance, look up some of the videos on religious deconstruction by The Naked Pastor. It's very much about exactly this. Father Nathan Monk and Mary Katherine Backstrom are two more who talk a lot about the difference between, ones faith/belief/relationship with god vs the religion, the church, and whatever ulterior motives those have. ❤❤❤ I love your videos, I first started watching you bc I was like whoa how does this happen what makes somebody decide yeah I better get it amputated. But I eventually found that I like listening to what you have to say. 😊 Best luck in everything you do. Apologies in advance if there are any funky typos
don't deconstruct your faith. Jesus is real because of so many prayers of mine being answered. faith is righteousness.
the heavily religious being respectful? that's hard for them XD
You may as well take prayer, it can’t hurt, 😊
I remember taking to my dad about an experience he had as a 7 year old. He had Polio as a 4 year old, spent time in the iron lung, watched other children die from this disease, had months of physical therapy. Just an all around horrible experience for a child to go through. When he was 7, a traveling revival came through and was “healing” people. He saw people being healed and went through the line, on the other end he questioned why he wasn’t healed and they told him because it was his fault. Something like along the lines that “you are not good enough”. Who has the ball to do that to a child and call themselves a Christian? This event left its mark until the day he died.
How old was he? Did he get the oral polio "vax" in the 60s? I think if you research it you will find it eye opening. My uncle went through it and fortunately it didn't kill him it took years but he did recover. So many things we were lied to by the Government who claimed they cared. Research it! You may find your answers
That's horrific.
Hugs to you and your family
Wow as a Christian that man was awful to say that. God can do miracles yes but sometimes things are a part of your trial or will help others and hell keep you safe for as long as you trust him (and obviously medicine, therapy etc.) like for example jo has helped many peopke with different problems and shes strong enough to handle being an amputee shes inspiring.
Ive gone through many medical issues and too much trauma in life i thought nothing would be worth it but it inspired me to help people any way i can, i have an amazing future forming and have literally saved lives. Id do it all again because i dont think id have been so eager to help people and spread good as i am now.
I'm a hospital chaplain and this theology is nails on chalkboards for me. I'm so sorry you were wounded by it.
Thank you for speaking out against him and those like him whenever you can, and for convincing your ministerial peers to do the same.
Thank you as a below the knee amputee.
@@EricaTaylor-jw3uxHi Erica
@@franceslarina5508believe it or not most Christians see straight though these televangelists. Look up the Trinity foundation. They investigate and expose religious exploitation, while also being a Christian foundation. These sorts of people are why the Protestant reformation happened
As a non-American I find these conservative Christians creepy. Your country seems to have a lot of them. Believe what you want to believe for yourself, but don’t impose it on others.
I don't necessarily think America has more of them as a percentage of our population than other countries, but they are definitely more able to find a platform and it's problematic.
It's part of the reason we have been unable to enshrine some pretty basic human rights in law here in the US
We have a lot of very loud ones, and all sane people despise them. This is what happens when you send all the religious nuts to one colony.
@@Its-Just-Zipamerica does tho. america has many cults that just mimic christianity. yet its extremism in christian beliefs. so i like to put them in the cult nieche
There are a lot of conservative Christians that aren't Pentecostal holy roller types or word of faith/faith healers that do understand what disabilities are and that they are real. That doctor's work, though look at the Taking Care of Maya case and you can see why some are skeptical. But that had less to do with religion and more to do with arrogant doctors.
We do have a great many such, and they’ve been around for decades - since at least the middle eighties, which is when I personally encountered this sort of “verging on witchcraft” teaching.
Chief difference since then is it *seems* both more common and, in some ways, more virulent.
This topic is so painful and it has taken me a few days to be able to watch this video from start to finish. Thanks for everything you said. To those who didn't get the message, we are not "BROKEN" and we don't need to be "FIXED". I am someone who is dyslexic, has a number of learning disabilities, and is physically disabled in my right arm and lower back. None of that needs to be fixed, I am not diseased or lesser, I am just different and accomplish things differently then my neorotypical peers.
Dyslexic + neurospice + chronic pain solidarity 💖 I don't know you, but I love you. You don't need "fixing."
Hey Jo,
I have been watching your videos since I first stumbled upon your channel after I lost my right arm in 2021.
I want you to know that you have helped me more than you can imagine.
Today is another great milestone for me.
I drove my motorcycle for the first time with my prosthetic. I should mention it was a more accident that took my arm. But now with your help I’m have the wind in my hair again!!
I spent so much of my childhood praying to be healed of my disability. It never happened. Now I'm fine with all of my disabilities. I just would like to be pain-free. The disabilities don't bother me anymore, just the pain associated with them. ❤❤
It really doesn't. The best that anybody can really expect is to come to terms with it and try to find something positive in it. Which, honestly, may not always be possible with some disabilities.
I’m so sorry you are dealing with chronic pain. It’s such a toll physically and mentally. Every day is a challenge. You’re doing it though! That’s what I tell myself. I hope you can get your pain controlled at least.
I hope that you will achieve that pain free state, chronic issues suck a***
No chronic pain *yet,* thankfully. I’m quite familiar with the acute variety - in some instances, lasting for a few weeks going to months.
Chronic *exhaustion* - that’s no fun at all. Been living with that for years now, due to being disabled and chronic illnesses (especially chronic pancreatitis.)
As someone who was born without fingers, I almost had the opposite experience of my family telling me "God wanted to make you special! This is all a part of his plan!" Which as an adult I look back and see how damaging that also was. I have had some experience with radical faith healers trying to "make me whole" and I always feel so incredibly uncomfortable as I would absolutely not want to wake up tomorrow "whole".
The reality tends to be somewhere in the middle. These things are rarely 100% bad, but they're also not completely good either. And, it's really the individual's position to try and work that out. Usually the community does have some sense of where the disability in general lies.
Thank you for this perspective. I know that Ive made ppl feel that way when I was speaking to them too. I know these are people who have been very successful as amputees or being born without limbs. I try to mind my p's and q's but my heart longs to be heal those those people. I will say now with my present gibbled up hand, I took it all for granted!!!!! Im thankful for the experience of having part of my hand and having had to adapt but I want to figure out how to heal this thing so bad and not just for me but for you too and for other people just like you!!!! I healed a kid witha clubbed foot once. This kid had had dozens of surgeries. Were special shoes. Lived with pain! Then I came along and just started rambling about miracles and God. Me and my bro both laid hands on the lad and his foot straightened right out! I'll never foot how it happened. It grossed me out because the tendons in his foot went soft beneath my hands and then shaped themselves out right under my hand. They felt like worms moving under his skin! It was disgusting. But the voice of the Lord spoke to me and told me not to dare pull my hands away! "Finish it!" So I did! I stayed on it and his foot straightened out and then we fixed the leg length problem using a lesser miracle that I learned when I first got started. I see him around now and then... walking down the street like he owns it completely pain free. We dont have a relationship but he'll never forget me. Thats what I call setting the captives free. Religion just imprisons ppl again. Im a metalhead dad! I love dragons! I sculpt them out of clay. I like evil shit!!!! Ive healed backs and hips! Made ppl shorter just by touching them!!!!! Inches shorter than they actually were! It was a show! I felt like like everyone was just a number there were so many people getting healed and it felt impersonal and I think thats because it was. I didnt care about any of them. I was too excited by the miracles and the fact I was being used by God! So I slowed down! Stopped doing altogether eventually. Now nobody gets healed at all. The way I see it is at least those people received the laying on of hands. What if I had never been there? Ive opened alot of eyes!!!!!
Yes, sort of like being born with Goldenhar syndrome, no right ear from birth, deaf on that side, and a lot of other, less-obvious disabilities that go along with it.
No, not the exact same, but have a lot in common overall.
@@neilolsen342 you healed him because you had unconditional love for him. it's love that heals.
@@keyisme1356 Actually my love had very little to do with it. Half the time I think I may evenm be incapable of feeling the emotion. But God isnt. And thats what saved me. Not everyone phony and half baked religion that is based on laws. NOT LOVE!!!!! And it was faith that moved those mountains and the only reason I even got involved in the first place to get my hands dirty was because Christians have been too busy condemning every sinner to hell and someone had to get involved and get their hands dirty. The workers are few and the harvest is plentiful.
My aunt had this happen.
Her church told her the reason her husband died on the toilet is because she didn't prey hard enough.
That's transforming faith into superstition.
How horrible for your aunt ❤
I had a broken foot when I was 17 and worked as a waitress. This church group always would come into the restaurant every Sunday and they knew me. So when they saw the broken foot they asked if they could pray and heal me so I said sure. Of course it didn’t work and they then said it must be what God wants for me! I agree with everything you said in this video.
Thank you for the vulnerability to talk about this. It's not just kind of a little abusive to tell people if they have faith they will be healed, that's 100% abusive. To tell chronically ill and in pain people, let alone teenagers or children, that the pain they are experiencing is their fault because they don't believe hard enough, is textbook abuse. It boils down to that. Your suffering is your fault is literally a textbook abuse tactic.
I absolutely agree. Back when the previous administration was trying to change health insurance and covered illnesses, I was so livid that asthma was on the list of pre-existing health conditions that would no longer be covered. Their whole premise was that "if you have faith God will heal you." So are you telling me that as a two-year-old innocent child growing up in a strong Christian household, I didn't have enough faith to save me from an asthma diagnosis? That a lifetime with this illness meant that I didn't have enough trust in the Lord? Or what about my mother, who had polio when she was three and suffered lifelong complications? She also grew up in a Christian household and lived faithfully for her whole life. How dare someone say, "If she only had faith, God would have healed her." Take that doctrine and shove it! 😤
@@katherinemurphy2762 yep, my partner gets told this about chronic health problems. Except 95% of her health problems can be directly traced back to being 3+ months premature. Her body simply didn't finish developing completely, some of the systems just never worked properly. Did she not believe in God enough as a fetus???
@@waffles3629Don't misunderstand me, please, because this may sound very cynical.
Your partner's situation makes me think of what life they who are born six or more months premature. What sort of life do they have? Thinking about the, from my view, in Sweden, the crazy laws in some states where abortion is totally forbidden, and nothing changes that. Not even when the doctors know that this fetus will be born much too early and have severe disabilities, and due to being born so early most likely brain damage too.
If nature was allowed to follow its own path, and the fetus wouldn't survive. As the laws are everything available should be used to make this fetus survive, the, in my opinion, is that some of them survive, doomed to a life imprisoned in their own body and dysfunctional brain.
I think it has gone too far. It must be a limit for how much pain you should expose a child to, for principal reasons.
@@annabackman3028 There have been many advances in neonatal medicine, allowing premies to survive with greater odds. My niece, who is now six, was born at 28 weeks. My sister was advised to abort her at 20 weeks, but because of a strong heartbeat and development of the kidneys, she carried my niece as long as she could. My niece spent two months in the NICU and is now developmentally normal.
@@annabackman3028 six months premature would never survive. The youngest preemie to ever survive was 21 weeks at birth. At 13 weeks/~3 months a fetus is the size of a tennis ball and wouldn't have functional lungs. She was not nearly as critical as the babies you are describing. I do agree that compassionate care should be an option for babies that simply won't survive.
Ugh yes this was so damaging. My brother was disabled and how other people treated us was horrible. And how they said they 'saw' my brother healed. And when he died they said things about 'see now he's healed'. It hurt me so much.
Personally, I would find that pretty fucked up. It shows disregard for 1. your grief and 2. your brother, among other things. I'm sorry to hear those things were said, and I hope you're doing better.
That is so messed up. I hope you aren’t around those people any more.
Yeah I'm in a better place now. (Completely different country with good supportive people around me)
Hey Jo, I just found The Line and paused one of your and Dave's videos to come watch this one. This video made me cry. Not out of pity, but empathy. Our stories are remarkably similar, though my disabilities and chronic pain are not visible. Im so much happier and more fulfilled since leaving my evangelical cult. Ive asked god to "fix" me so many times. And i really believed he would. Now, instead, im making accommodations in my life and realizing there are areas that it's ok to struggle with. I think it was really brave of you to put this video out there, and i hope to start speaking up more in my own life. Keep doing what youre doing. Youre helping a lot of people. Sending love ❤❤❤
Thank you for sharing this! I am dealing with some “invisible” stuff that, I hate to say it, may be always with me. I have literally lost friends over the issue of what I choose to do in seeking a way to handle this. It’s not only the “faith healing” that some church people push on you, it’s the whole idea that because you have a certain mental issue, you are no longer capable of making good decisions for yourself and should bow to their opinions about what you should do. Extremely frustrating!!
I love that you pointed out that all 40 bazillion different branches of Christianity all think *they* have the final interpretation of scripture. 🙄
I’m currently navigating divorce and dealing with the “God hates divorce” crap (ahem, excuse me, “crowd”)… no, God hates for people to be abused and manipulated. Another story for another day.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate the things you have to say. ❤
Oh boy, here we go. Faith healers, my arch enemies. I'll pray for them.
SERIOUSLY. Same.
As someone with chronic pain, the owner of a chronic pain counseling practice (and a counselor at that practice) and the founder of a chronic pain focused non-profit thank you so much for talking about this. I work with a lot of clients who start experiencing chronic pain, feel like they have done something to make God angry, the church starts to turn on them and they crumble. It's just devastating. I always ask clients what their theory on chronic pain is. Do they believe God did it to them, do they believe it's random, Karma, ect. When client believe it is a punishment from God it's always the hardest to work through that with them because the guilt and trauma is so intertwined with the physical pain.
That's one of the saddest things I've read today.
I love that you take this approach so you can help them free themselves from guilt. I bet you witness a lot of relief in your patients.
@@darklordbobSmokeThe fact that the clients have the made it into my office is an amazing step. It takes a lot of work, but a lot of clients end up understanding that pain and suffering are completely separate sensations. Pain is not a moral or religious failing, and they can learn to live beyond their pain. They are more than just their pain, disability or diagnosis. It can be a great transformation!
Any chance you're in NY? Would love to refer patients to you!!
@@allisongiordano5495 Im not in NY, Im in NC. But we work with anyone all over the country with our nonprofit Chronic Hope Cares. While we don't do counseling there we do a lot of good programs, some one-on-one and theyre all free!
Thank you. You put into words how a lot of people feel about faith healing. I know it wasn’t an easy topic to choose to make a video about. Thank you. ❤
As an agnostic teen girl raised in a Christian family who may or may not be on the autism spectrum, this video was really helpful in exploring the ways the bible is exploited and how beliefs are stretched and morphed, tysm!!!
I have a neurological disease, and I became legally bind in my right eye when I was 13 and the number of times I was told as a kid that the reason I didn't get my vision back is because I didn't have enough faith, really messed me up when I was younger. It makes me mad for my younger self now. Because there is literally nothing that can be done to get my vision back. The optic nerve is damaged.
As a disabled person myself, I hate this type of demagogic bs! I'm an atheist and people have said that my chronic pain would go away if I became Christian! Glad you're making this video to set things straight.
If the pain doesn't go away by embracing it like a good friend and addressing the problem, then chances are nothing will adequately deal with the problem. Normally, pain is just an emotion to tell you to do something to prevent yourself from damage. For some reason it sometimes gets triggered by the wrong thing or in excess and in those cases it can be extremely challenging to adequately address. Worse though is insufficient pain, it's hard to live without enough pain to keep you from hurting yourself.
And, it's a BS marketing tactic to tell people that your god is hurting them and will stop if you join their religions.
Yep. I've had people tell me this too. Even though I had many of the same health problems when I still thought I believed. If God didn't fix me before why would she fix me now? She couldn't even get my parents to take me to a doctor.
God heals, loves and provides if you are a Christian or not. He loves everyone
@@waffles3629He still can! It’s Gods timing not ours. He loves you!!!❤❤❤
@@MapleFlowers28What do you not understand? We don’t want “god” to fix us. Not when he supposedly tries to drown and kill those who oppose him. God kills, his followers kill and demean. They have for centuries.
Dealt with trigeminal neuralgia and was told I just need to believe and pray it away.... And now with severe neck misalignment pain... It's my fault cause I have not forgiven someone.... Yes, I've heard it all and left a very dedicated church life due to this.... Thank you for sharing 🫂
I think that's the most painful thing of all. Having to leave what you thought was a supportive community. Hugs.
Former Christian - Getting multiple sclerosis at 19 and then experiencing much of what you touched on was the major contributing factor to me leaving the church. It took a couple of years before i could be honest with myself about this sense of dysphoria with what i was taught about how faith could influence my life and how that contrasted with my reality but once i started to pull at that thread I became very uncomfortable in church. I could empathize more with the other communities who are marginalised or outright demonised by the church and i didn't want any part in furthering that harm so I left.
You are uniquely poised to help so many people and this was beautifully articulate. Thank you for being you and doing the work, putting yourself out here and sharing. Keep it up!
Oh gosh - this comment made my night. That is so kind of you to say. Truly, thank you, it means a lot to me. 💜
@@FootlessJo I second this!!
Good for you having critical thoughts about this and questioning the false authority of the church. You can help many people! Happy holidays!
I was raised Mormon and when I was 15 a condition I had got really bad. I didn't know what I had because the pain had been minimal and it is a headache condition and my parents thought I was "being a teenager". That began a long process of trying to get a diagnosis, finding the right treatment and doing my best to get through each day. I had a severe enough headache I couldn't do anything but cry and yell in pain. When I was able to function a bit more my parents brought me to church where I had so many people saying things like, "Have faith and God will heal you" or "Illness is a trial from God so you must have a lesson to learn before you get better" and it made me feel like *I* was the problem and I had to change when in reality I just have a condition that I have not completely overcome but I've com a long way from where I was. I did that, not God and I am proud. I appreciate the concern from people I got, I really do but I don't believe praying helps.
Praying is you talking to yourself. If you believe that god knows the future, the past and everything in between, and you're in pain, then god wants it so. Who are we to try and change god's mind?
I think they take it too far.
Personally, faith has helped me in difficult times, but I never believed it was something like a magic spell to physically delete pain or problems.
I just took it as a support for hope that one day maybe things would be better.
And never substituted it for medicine.
I'm an Ex-Catholic and the amount of times I was told I'm going to hell for being Autistic was far too many. They went passed the faith healing stuff and just went straight to hate. Once I told people in Sunday school I was autistic, they started treating me lesser. Like I myself was a disease. I was a "lost cause" and that "no one can save" me. I'm "destined for hell". All because I was born autistic and ADHD.
I have autism and ADHD as well and relate to this so much.❤
I’m so sorry that they said those awful things to you!! It is absolutely wrong what they said. We all have trouble with things and what sends people to hell is sin! Which God gave his life for us all as a payment for our sins so we can be with Him in heaven. You are not a lost cause at all. Again, I’m so sorry that people said that to you. And God saves us all!!
Obviously, they never read any of Temple Grandin's books. She's autistic--and has a PhD in Animal Sciences.
Thankfully I don't think I had to deal with any of that stuff, but I do have this hyper-religious OCD which when it flares up ended up with me saying stuff in this strange tone which my Mom thought sounded like I didn't actually believe it or something, about how G-D was *Personally* very very angry with me, and that after reading a genuine *Puritan* forum I should delete anything pirated, and then I shouted an apology to The LORD for pirating anime on the Christian Sabbath... Then I was about to reach for a knife to... Do what Abraham did for his covenant with Elohim... Then I was going to shout *"I Love You Yeshuyah Ben YHVH HaMassiach"* afterwards or something.
Thankfully my Mom helped talk me down from trying to do that.
And then you in turn went and hated them...how does that make you any better than they? True strength would have been to grow above their hate, not run from it.
Watched my mum claim healing over and over for all kinds of medical issues "Hallelujah! I'm healed" only for her suffering to return not long after. I asked a church leader why it would keep coming back if people were actually being divinely healed, and the church leader explained that temporary healing brings hope, and to have relief for even a short time is a blessing. Thankfully no one in that church circle ever claimed suffering was anyone's fault, but being able to parallel the drowning rat experiment to my mom's chronic issues... it's something that brought me closer to eventually leaving church altogether. I dealt with my own chronic issues too, but never managed even "temporary healing" so... that was cool.
as a foreigner (germany) this is so surreal for me to hear… I mean, our church isn't a saint by any means, but I never heard of anyone in my school, town, college, etc. who would say things like that, or would believe things like that…
I already get rather blood-boiled (is that a word? oO) when people tell me that I just have to believe that there is something good out there, and my depression will get better/away for good…
but to hear your story? with that much force and message? I am truly sorry that you had to go through that, and still carry the scars from that…
Your English is very good! We do say in English, "That makes my blood boil!" So you're not far off with that! ❤️
Yes, when I travel, I have never heard of anyone, anywhere else being so inappropriate and invasive towards total strangers. And don’t think they did anything wrong. I don’t understand it either, and it’s only in the States that people are like this; it is absolutely bizarre. But, more and more people are identifying as ‘spiritual’ and not ‘religious’, so that’s an encouraging trend. So, whenever I am abroad, I always impress on others that people like that preacher are just outdated stereotypes and we are NOT like that as much anymore. And we’re more and more inclined to respect that people are different and to never give our opinion unless it’s specifically asked for. We’re getting there! Love you, Jo! 😀
It depends a bit where you are in the country. Around here I haven't ever heard people say such nonsense, but I don't have any visible disabilities, so perhaps they do. It's just that as an area the level of membership in religions in general is much below the national average.
If belief that something good is out there could take my depression away, I've got nearly 40 years of life that need a LOT of explaining.
I believe in many wonderful things and take delight in so many. Depression doesn't mean I'm not happy. It means my soul carries too much for me to have basic functioning most of the time.
Yes, I'm not an American either and I'm pretty sure in most countries chruches like these would be considered a cult. It sounds completely surreal to me as well
I was pretty much indoctrinated by a religious school as a child. I _believed_ as strongly as it's possible to believe when you're young, but no matter how hard I tried I was constantly told that I was wrong, that there was something broken about me that nobody could fix. I prayed, every night, for God to fix me - my broken brain that couldn't deal with the world outside it, that was missing just about everything that everybody else seemed to just "know", that became overwhelmed whenever anything loud or bright was remotely near me, that I couldn't control when things got too much. Then, at the age of 13, I finally read the Bible cover-to-cover, and it cured me of my religion, but the feeling of abject brokenness remained.
Three decades later, I was diagnosed autistic...and, suddenly once again, I've got religious folk telling me that - just like they tell you - if I just believed _enough_ then God would fix my broken brain....and I finally have enough about me to know that I'm _not_ broken. It's actively offensive. I feel a little bit sorry for those folk, because it's not _totally_ their fault that they're simply incapable of understanding why I get angry when they insist that I just need to believe.
Waves in fellow late diagnosed autistic
I know the feeling. I was late diagnosed with ADHD and am slowly learning that I’m not broken or defective. We are supposed to be like this. We are whole and complete and wonderful with our funky brains that work differently from others, but give us special talents too.
At the age of 13 you figured out something very, very important that so many others with "unbroken," highly educated brains have never figured out. I'm glad it happened at 13 and not 40 like me.
Sounds like religious trauma, I hope you can heal from it
I'm so sorry we're in the same boat, but its nice to know I'm not alone in this experience. folks like us can paddle together 🖤
I'm a Christian with what I now call an evolving faith. Not believing that I have the answers is wonderfully freeing. I have dabbled in charismatic stuff but was never 100% convinced with much 'healing' talk I heard. I still believe in healing, but it is rarely physical and 'healing' can mean so much more than that, including acceptance. Would I offer to pray for you if I met you? Maybe. But if I did I would ask what you wanted praying for rather than assuming, and if I don't know you well enough, I might not jump to that option unless I honestly thought it was wanted.
As an atheist, it would personally make me very uncomfortable if someone asked to pray for me (or worse if they told me they were praying for me) regardless of the reason. Everyone's different, but it's probably better to keep your prayers for others private unless you know someone is religious (like wearing a religious garment), especially as some people have religious trauma and may be triggered by such a question however well intentioned.
It's great that you're examing your beliefs by the way - I think a lot of issues stem from people stubbornly believing that they can't possibly be wrong (both religious and non-religious opinions).
Thank you for this. Too many people say to just ignore these comments, but they shouldn't be. Comments like these need to be addressed, or they won't ever stop. You are in a wonderful position to connect with more people than most of us. I love that you were so articulate and calm as you spoke.
As a blind person I've always hated random people wanting to pray for me. It makes me feel like they think there is something wrong with me when there is nothing wrong with me being blind.
From where I stand, in some ways I'd rather be blind. Instead, I exist in this sort of quasi state where I can usually see, except when I suddenly can't, and I have no idea how much of what I'm seeing is actually there due to sensory processing disorder. The first time I had to cross a busy street blind because I suddenly lost my sight was an education. Today, I could have sworn I saw a man sitting next to a large white bag on the way to the store. But, all of a sudden, the bag was gone and there was a rather large white dog a couple feet away as the image finished processing.
And you're absolutely right, being blind probably is a pain at times, but people can and do live great lives anyway. Some of these things are easier to figure out, and some of them are mostly a matter of perspective.
This is how I've come to feel about my daughter being Deaf.
She was born to a myriad of disabilities and a terminal illness that took her from us at 6 years old. She was born hearing, but went from responding to my voice as a full-term baby in the NICU to profoundly Deaf in both ears by 6 months old as a result of medication.
Make no mistake--that medication SAVED HER LIFE. I knew the risks. I asked what other choices there were. A kind and very blunt doctor said we could treat her post-op infection with the meds proven to kill it and risk her hearing or we could treat it with things proven ineffective and hope for the best while risking her life.
She was an extremely happy child. Being Deaf was part of who she was, part of how she experienced the world. It gave her a relationship with her sight far beyond anything I've ever seen. Her disabilities prevented her from signing, but her attentiveness for hands communicating in ASL was better than most adults' focus. She loved the different textures of things and all the sensory experiences she could have. Being Deaf gave her an instant community where other Deaf people knew her and loved her exactly as she was and helped me to be the mother my daughter needed.
Sometime after she turned 4, I realized if I had a magic wand, I still wouldn't take her deafness from her because I'd be taking a part of her that she loved. There was a lot of peace in that moment.
I don't think I would have taken her other disabilities either. Her pain? Absolutely.
I grew up in an abusive home. It wasn't like most abusive homes. I ended up conviced at a young age that bodily functions and needs were unacceptable. Hunger, thirst, excrements, all deplorable. I would look at "children who were loved" and marvel that they could use the bathroom or eat and not feel like complete failures. What I made my body do was amazing, impossible even in some cases. I've learned as an adult that it was all possible because of fear. Fear of being hated or percieved as human. It was weird when I finally had my first panic attack. Once someone told me what it was I was so happy I started crying because I had gotten to a point where my mind and body finally felt like they could be human. They finally felt like it was safe to be flawed, and they were showing me and the world that I wasn't a machine.
All that being said, I was every capitalist's dream employee. I would literally work myself to near death, and keep working (without anyone noticing my inadequacies) despite having complete vision loss due to pain. Unfortunately for them there are labor laws, so I never actually died.
Wow I’m so sorry you went through that! I hope you have what you need now to feel safe, loved and okay to be human. 🤗
"not as bad as some" then you describe some of the most effed up psychological torture I've ever heard.
Some other strategies of what you can say
1) limit the types of abuse to what they are. Psychological, financial etc. and just don't mention the types that weren't present. Let the listener determine if it's the worst or not.
2) "abuse that really negatively impacted my ability to function in [x situation]" again, this limits the breadth of abuse without trying to rank it vs others
3) "the way this thinking worked on mind, growing up, was to make me feel that I couldnt have bodily functions" makes it personal, here's how it interacted with your specific temperament & personality. It doesn'tatter necessarily how "bad" the abuse was, just that jt was bad enough to eff you up.
Because in my experience the "worst part" of abuse is the act of betrayal even if the potential abuser isn't allowed to go through with it, the knowledge that they were ready eff people up because they lose their sense of safety. (One example I've seen is fathers asking their daughters for sex in one way or another, and then stopping immediately, the daughters are never ok, because they lost the ability to trust their dads).
Because of the abuse impacted you so significantly, what matters is if you're being given the tools and emotional space to heal, not whether or not someone else had it worse.
You are quite literally the strongest son of a bitch I ever met. I don’t know how anyone could survive that but you somehow did and I’m proud that you get to live your life freely now. I’m so sorry for what you went through and I hope things keep getting better.
I’m sorry that sounds awful. out of curiosity, what religion did you grow up in?
I grew up in that world. It took a lot of therapy and deconstruction to get past. Your message here is so important and I’m glad you’re sharing it.
Wow! Ok bare with me. I am an openly born again Christian, I was born with spina bifida and confined to a wheelchair since kindergarten. I have been struggling with my condition and in my teens I was very depressed. I came across a church in my area through a friend. Something that I finally came to my own conclusion is that I was never going to be healed. BUT.... I felt God wants me this way, not because he will eventually heal me but he wants me to live like this, so that I can show being broken is perfect! And to be honest, am I broken?? No! Am I still a Christian? YES! But it's because it's my own relationship with him. But to this day I struggling with my own personal issues with being this way and trying to find love of others who feel that I am perfect for them. Thank you so much Jo for posting this! And also, I love your doggies! :) Keep doing this! Id say God Bless You. But I think he has already! :)
I was born with Spina bifida and Hydrocephalus and raised as a Christian myself, I experienced this shit all my life
it also infuriates me that so many Christians will be all like "not all Christians" about this
It's so damn infuriating that people think that way
I have brain damage, it is permanent, no amount of prayer and faith will revive that part of my brain
@@thespudlord686Or as Jo pointed out, regrow a foot.
I have Spina Bifida too and since high school when I started going to a church I went to for 10 years and then Bible school I realized A LOT of people’s attitudes and assumptions about people with disabilities.
I have spina bifida and hydrocephalus too and, while I've been very blessed to have a church and a pastor where this is not an issue for me, I've seen it first hand growing up and it makes me sad. Jesus is a god of love and compassion, not condemnation and judgement for things we have no earthly control over. I'm so very sorry to you and anybody else who has ever been treated like that by people who call themselves the body of Christ.
Very well said, it is truly hurting to know how there's people like that man being incredibly toxic and delusional. Especially at doctors who spent centuries improving the field to help everyone. You are a magnificent influence on this platform, keep up the good work 💜
Mega church Pastor Greg Locke is like that too. He believes that conditions like autism and ADHD are caused by demon possession.
Hi Jo, fellow chronic pain and trauma survivor here. I grew up in the church too though thankfully not as bad as this nonsense. I still have faith but it’s not easy to keep sometimes and it should never be weaponized. I do hope and pray for us both that new medical treatments, support systems, safe places or just the passage of time brings us both relief, peace and maybe even some measure of healing. I’m encouraged that there are medical advancements, research, therapies and new approaches to chronic illness that did not exist ten years ago. I also know how much better a persons body and mind feels when it has the space, community and support it needs from kind loving people. I doubt things will advance enough in our lifetime and certainly aging catches up to everyone to bring about the kind of healing these con artists peddle but I gotta believe in a world where things get better. So I hope, pray, wish, manifest whatever you want to call it that things get better for us both. Thank you for sharing your life. 💜💚💜💚 I’m sorry you grew up in a sucky church, you deserved better!
I’m so sorry you went through that. I’m Canadian, I’m a christen but I know God is not happy he said that and my right is isn’t “broken” because I don’t believe in my Lord. ❤
I had a person come up and get in my way to "pray over me" when I was slugging my body from the car to the store with me forearm crutches, hoping to get to the motorized carts before I lost my balance and face planted in exhaustion.
I told them they can pray for me somewhere else because they were in my f***ing way."
There was much applause from shoppers around me, and with their supportive applause, I had a new rush of energy that got me to the carts with no face plant!
😂
Oh God, I had someone wanting to place their hands on me while waiting for doctor, claiming they could heal me. And they're always so bloody persistent. My problem has a genetic basis, but they haven't even identified the genes responsible yet.
Should have gotten the cart for you!
I was in the dairy section in a cart when I had that experience but the dad and Son never saw me again so they have no way of knowing that it didn't do a damn thing thing.
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar Yes, what is wrong with these people? You can't just go to the doctor or buy some food in peace, without being patronised or in other cases abused even as "not having anything wrong with you". Shake my head.
@@dennisyoung4631funny how these people fail to see the best and most immediate way if helping others
What you described is one of the biggest reasons I left the church 14 years ago. It is abuse--that's not too strong a word. I've come to view the church (and most religions, really) as not that dissimilar to an abusive spouse or parent. They beat you, and tell you that if you had just behaved better, made better choices, hadn't pushed them, hadn't made them angry, then they wouldn't have had to hurt you. Religions basically say if you were better, had loved me more, and followed my rules, I wouldn't have to lock you in the basement and set you on fire (send you to hell.) And the whole healing thing? Like god healed this person from cancer, but not you, or your loved one, because you didn't pray hard enough, or have enough other people praying for you? Like god protected you and your family from that horrible accident that you avoided because you were running late, but he didn't protect the people who were actually hurt/killed in the accident?
It's cruel and emotionally abusive.
Jo, the healing for your body is not getting your limb back. It's your heart. When you feel compelled to reach out, you will not feel as much pain/ you'll know how to deal with it. I'm talking about Thoughts. I LOVE YOU
You're amazing.
My father is very religious, we are not close. I'm almost one year clean and sober. He believes in the healing powers of God as well..
Sometimes I let him pray for me and talk to him about that stuff just because I want a relationship with my dad...
But I feel phony.. it's a hard thing.
They have their minds made up and don't understand how damaging it can be.
When I was 13 I remember seeing people speak in church with a slew of issues "healed by God".. everything from cancer, and diabetes to schizophrenia and addiction disorders.
It can be so confusing for kids and adults alike
I'm so sorry you felt as though it was your fault
I found, 95% consistently, that the people who immediately offered to pray for me were also the least likely to help me IRL and to be judgey of my non-recovery. Judging the chronically ill or disabled folks as bad Xtians is a very easy way to not have to help them yourself, and it eases the cognitive dissonance that they are ignoring the "as you treat these, the least of my people" requirements of their own doctrine.
I’m so sorry that your getting these comments. Thank you for talking about this, it’s such an interesting and important topic that I’m grateful to learn more about!
I grew up in an Evangelical church and homeschool community. It was not socially acceptable to outright tell someone it was their fault they were sick, but people often talked about how Christ was offering "wholeness" to anyone who would accept it. As an adolescent who was losing more and more aspects of my life due to my health, having people constantly tell me to pray more and trust God more and it would make me better made me feel like an inadequate Christian. For years I would apologize to God in my prayers anytime I had to cancel a social plan or miss a deadline because of my health. I haven't been involved with religion in more than half a decade, but that messaging still gets in my head when my pain is at its highest. I know faith and prayer bring genuine comfort to many sick and hurting people. I have absolutely nothing against that. I truly think it's a beautiful things when someone finds something that brings them comfort, joy, and peace. I think if people were more careful not project these ideas, more people could find true peace in their faith.
I am a Christian and I believe that there are cases of miraculous healings HOWEVER I also believe that most of the time this is not the case and it has nothing to do with how much faith you have or don’t have. I suffer from deep depression and crippling anxiety. If I had a dollar for how many times I’ve been told I just need to pray harder or believe more I would be set for life. It was deeply hurtful to be told that my suffering was my own fault. Starting meds and therapy was the best thing I ever did. I’m glad I didn’t listen to this idea and decided to seek professional help.
I grew up being told that my pain could and would be healed. I asked many people from several denominations to pray over it and yet it persisted. Every time it was harder to "have faith". The church preaches to come as you are but change once you're here. Realistically that just means they're weeding out people who can't change (be they disabled, LGBTQ+, etc) over time
This was such an open, vulnerable, and inclusive take from you Jo. I grew up in a tight-knit Catholic community and was given room to question, room to even criticize. I was never taught that I should abandon medicine or trust solely in God to heal, but was surrounded by people who showed power in community during hard times. The non-blame of that community support garnered an ultimately positve headspace for myself, even when facing some mental health and family struggles. I think if I had been taught that faith was the only healer, I would have lost my mind. There are positive ways that faith and community can help people heal, and I think the starting point is moving from blame to support. I'm so sorry that you were blamed for your pain and your suffering.
Exactly. Support and kindness. Not blame and shame.
> "The free pass does not apply to that guy."
Had me in stitches, that was beautiful.
As a trans woman whose transition was delayed by years by conservative Christian indoctrination, I am glad that you made this video. I cannot comprehensively explain how much damage “faith healing” and “pray it away” can actually do. I am glad others who have platforms like you can do it in the stead of the victims of charlatans like those you spoke of.
You aren't a woman, you are a man who has had surgery to look like a woman.
I have EDS and POTS and a whole bunch of other issues that have made me an ambulatory wheelchair user. People, even some family, will talk about my life in the future and how maybe I won’t need my wheelchair anymore. I know they mean well, but it also gives the undertone that my wheelchair and disability is a negative thing that makes me less than. Maybe my health will get to a place one day where I won’t need my wheelchair, but it’s very likely that that won’t happen and that’s not a bad thing. Tbh if I woke up totally “healed”, I wouldn’t know what to do with myself. Just like how many non-disabled people can’t imagine being disabled, I can’t imagine or remember what not being disabled is like. Every person is a whole person no matter their size, skin color, body shape, or disabilities.
Thank you for this story and sending it out into the world. As someone that has an invisible disability and struggling quite a lot, ‘everything happens for a reason’ feels similar. It is essentially saying you deserve this pain and you’ll be happy for it some day. Which, in my opinion, no. Some things are just shit. I believe we become wonderfull people in spite of difficulties, not because of them.
Also, this faith based healing is mirrored in wellness culture. If you do all the right things you’ll be healthy. ‘You’re not our ideal of healthy? Then you didn’t try hard enough.’ That would be another interesting topic to have your views on.
Thinking this over I think a lot of the things people say are to ease their mind. Everything happens for a reason, I’ll pray for you, etc. They all avoid the personal story and feelings the person it is about has. And it might send the message, ‘I’ve comforted you, you should be comforted, and if you’re not, that is your fault’
I’m actually doing my thesis on invisible disabilities and what small interactions help and what interactions don’t. Overall it is about how to create or add to a feeling of beloning. All this may explain why I have so many thoughts on this topic. If anyone has any more interesting thoughts or resources or inspiration; I am very interested! Please feel free to share in this thread
My favorite is "I hope you feel better". It's as if people don't understand what chronic pain and chronic illness is. 🙃
@@esther5636I have had no negative interactions because I refuse to go out unless absolutely necessary. Huge part of that comes from reading other people’s experiences….and then seeing the onslaught of attacking responses the get. A negative experience is one thing, but then finding out a large portion of the population agrees with those doing the attacking.
“But not all people” blah blah blah.
Take for example a video of an overweight ambulatory wheelchair user. Many crude comments about her weight. Or about how if she can walk then she’s faking it. These comments get THOUSANDS of likes. However, comments that express empathy and teachable moments get single digit likes.
It’s not “all people”, but most people believe what society has taught them until they are forced to experience it themselves.
For me personally, I refuse to get disability or use aids because “I’m not disabled enough” and “those services should be for people who truly need them.”
Based on personal experiences, I would bet more people deal with internalized ableism and don’t seek help than actual fakers pretending to be disabled.
@@dragletsofmakara1120 We think the same then
I share my story, cause minor brain damage is almost invisible, and I've lost count of how many people say I should "lay off the caffiene" to which I'm thinking "any less and I'll be giving it away" The only reason I don't seek treatment is cause I can't afford it, nobody will hire someone who can't keep their right eye open, and it's "not severe enough to get disability benefits"
@@HiKingMargo yep, like yeah, let's just hope my *incurable* illness gets better. I'm a fan of "I hope tomorrow is better for you than today" because that is actually possible.
> "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
There's lots of good, well-meaning people who don't realise the pain they've caused. I hope they get a moment of self reflection to reconsider their actions. I know there's been moments like that in my own life where I've done or said the wrong thing, I'm definitely not perfect... I guess life is still a work in progress.
My 7 year old epileptic daughter had a seizure while we were out at Taco Bell last night. We noticed it coming on. I took her over to a corner booth and laid her down. Her dad ran out to the car for her emergency medication. We didn't make a huge deal of it. This is one in a series of seizures she has had in the last 7 years. We're pretty good at handling it and knowing when we need an ambulance or some other form of help.
As we were giving her the medication, a patron walked up and tapped my husband on the shoulder. I had to take the medication from him because he turned to answer this person. She wanted to tell us how strong we are and that she would be praying for us and our daughter.
We did have to call the ambulance because her medication wasn't acting as fast as normal. The emts come in, and they see that there is a crowd gathering, so they ask if we would feel better taking her outside to the truck. We agree. She had come out of the seizure and was postictal at this point. As we're walking out, the same woman from before stopped us again to say the same thing, along with about 3 other people saying they would pray for us.
We aren't religious anymore. It's all nice, and well and good. But you don't have to stop someone to tell them you're gonna pray. Just do it. If your god sees fit to bless us, based on your prayer, then we will feel it. You don't need to stop me in the middle of an emergency to tell me.
Very well said. I'm a wheelchair user, and have been since birth. I have had SO many people pray over me to be healed. I was raised Catholic and still consider myself to be one. But my beliefs are thoroughly my own. The thing that I believe is important here is that I believe God gave us free will for a reason. He/She wants us to take care of ourselves, not beg him/her to do everything for us. Also I don't believe anyone that makes money off of spreading "Gods Word" is really in touch with God.
I do not understand how in 2023 a grown adult could legitimately believe such bunk and truly believe there is a god. Its
just incomprehensible. I get that many people were indoctrinated/raised with such nonsense etc. but how do you actually convince yourself such silliness is true??? I just do not understand its just so ridiculous.
100% agree on all of this. As a teenager growing up in rural SC, I was convinced that Jesus would fix my depression and restore my will to live... turns out that only happened when I left the church, moved away for college, and got on different type of medication. Jesus didn't heal me, but modern medicine sure as hell helps way more than empty promises & guilt for not having enough faith
Yep, like it turned out I didn't need to pray one of my health problems away, I needed to surgery it away. Which meant actually going to a doctor and being able to tell the truth, instead of telling the truth and being "corrected" by my parents. Because, as far as they were concerned, if it didn't affect them or my ability to go up school it wasn't a problem*.
*Pain, fever, infectious illness, and surgeons orders do not apply
I don't know if you will read this, but my amputation was very similar to your story. I have had the same situation. I am a Christian, living in Northern Ireland. I find that there is very little respect within the Christian community! I found that I was getting told the exact same thing. Your leg would grow if u have faith.
I thank God I am alive. You have a different story in how you lost your leg. I had no choice and only had less than two weeks to make the decision. I had no choice and people who I thought where my friend within the Christian community, I lost them because they didn't accept the fact that it was a part of my journey, and not because I didn't have enough faith.
One day I got prayed unexpectedly for my leg to grow back and it was ridiculous that I just had to laugh!
I am more blessed and appreciate so much more in life!! I have found healing in my mind and feeling more at peace than ever. I have more contentment but I went through being judged, and to build pressure that I should be able to walk more and more. I blamed myself for a long time but I believe in the truth of the gospel!
God loves us no matter what or who we are! People have and preachers like that pastor should be so ashamed of himself because it hurts so much! I am none denominational Christian. I very grounded in my faith and now, I don't listen to those who have ever hurt or to judge me.
I lost myself but I found myself through hope in Christ. I can resonate with you in many ways! I used to play Drums and percussion! Love my sports but unfortunately in Northern Ireland, I don't get the chance to get the best of the best above knee prosthesis. I keep wondering and praying that I can get back into sports and to have a Christian Amputee community! Wherever you are!
Ps. I have never cussed so much in my life but the last 6 months I am finally getting there but still I am sure you are in the same position as me!!
You are healed as you have accepted this, and you are not bitter, angry or sad There are many kinds of healing.
All of the faith healing bs is so disgusting. How these people can claim that their god is a god of love while they're actively harmful to SO many people is beyond me. I'm so sorry you went through so much at the hands of these monsters and I'm SO proud of you for getting out.
I think is one of my favorite video topics that you’ve done. I don’t hear a lot about this kind of stuff but it is SO important.
It makes me so angry that people would be made to feel like they are not whole. As if whole or not whole is something a person can even be?
I feel like this video spoke so directly to me.
I was raised in the Christian Science Church-a cult that's about 150 years old, and is centered entirely around faith healing. So much so, in fact, that I didn't have so much as an ibuprofen until I was 18 years old. I thought I was so broken... Any sign of illness in my life was only proof of my separation from God. It was something I had brought upon myself, or even something that someone else had (through malice or mistake) placed upon me. But I was CONVINCED that my susceptibility to it was because my thoughts were WRONG. That no matter how greatly I believed, it was never enough. CS was in every aspect of my life, my family was 4 generations deep in Christian Science! And my inability to be healed or REMAIN healed felt me with deep emotional scars that I have to work through to this day.
I haven't even been out of CS for a decade yet, but there are things I am still trying to unlearn. All that said, I'm so grateful you made this video, Jo. It really spoke to me.
same
So many creative ways to not say cult, very artful. Bravo
Yeah when he said that it made my stomach sick. Its the tone - and the very clear implication that its just a crutch for people who are too lazy or faithless to accept healing. I'd bet a lot of money that given the chance he would eliminate it because it would "force people to find healing from God" or some BS like that.
There is no Hate like Christian love.
And spirit cried.
That's because you haven't been exposed to real Christian love true Christian love is an extremely rare and extremely hard to understand thing Christian love is being as close to just like Jesus as humanly possible what you call Christian love christ himself absolutely is ashamed of and people will half to answer for so called weaponized faith I don't mean to heckle you or jump down your throat I just hope you don't grow to hate Christians because of the bad ones I hope you have a wonderful holiday season
@@poisonfire12 Please don't 'No True Scotsman' this...
These creatures ARE real Christians... this IS true Christian love...
You are an aberration... you are at best an exception...
Hate is just a word people use to describe something they don't love, and love doesn't exist anymore. Take the LGBTQ folks vs Christians nonsense, the LGBTQ folks want Christians to forgo their chosen way of life in order to accept the LGBTQ folks' way of life and the Christians wanting the LGBTQ folks to forgo their way of life and to accept the Christians' way of life. Wanting people to conform to someone else's way of life, is not love it is hate in its purest form, a perfect love and perfect peace comes from knowing that we are free to live the best way we chose for ourselves and that nobody has the power over us to tell us differently. When people learn to respect that most basic of things, everything else starts to make sense.
As a person who spent 7 1/2 years working in the office of a large evangelical church, seeing what went on behind the scenes, It caused me to lose my faith in Christianity. I turned to science and what it had to say about life and the universe. No BS there... Stay strong Jo, we're there for you...
What is BS?
Thank you for sharing, Jo. It's worth...noting that not all Christian denominations preach like this. I went through a similar experience with mental health, and while I'm still a person of faith, my understanding of that faith has had to grow and mature over time. That growth is also something I've noticed not being preached or lived in many American churches. My heart hurts for 15 year old you, as well as me. God bless you for your openess.
From Middle School to my first year of college I was very religious, much like you, Christianity isn't a religion but a relationship, God can heal anything if I just believe hard enough or if it's His will, etc.
I went to several churches and a Christian conference asking to be healed of my visual impairments. Healing never came, my eyesight got worse, glaucoma damaged my vision, and Jesus wasn't there. Emergency surgery was the only thing that saved my vision.
Losing my faith was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm no longer afraid of Hell, I no longer believe that LGBT people are sinners who will tragically burn in Hell, I am LGBT and I will no longer lie to myself.
Slightly different journey to you (I decided at the ripe old age of 8 I not only was going to hell, but deserved it, because things I was told would happen if I believed didn't happen, therefore I didn't believe enough), but walking away and breaking through the brainwashing to realize I'd never believed was one of the best decisions I've ever made. And now when people tell me I'm going to hell for being trans I don't care. Like oooo, scary, you wanna tell me that Santa won't bring me presents either? I can't be afraid of hell if I don't think it exists.
God has always been with you! He never left you, He promised us that and He is faithful and cannot lie. God did heal you! Medical or miracle it’s from God!!! ❤❤❤that surgery was healing from God
@@waffles3629”for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” sin is what separates us from God. We all deserve to go to hell as we all have sinned. But by Gods grace, and love He died on the cross for all our sins. He paid our debt for us. He lived that perfect, holy life that we can’t. God cannot sin or do wrong. We do tho. God wants nobody to perish. ❤❤❤
@@MapleFlowers28 God didn't heal them, doctors did. The people who did the work deserve the credit.
@@MapleFlowers28 cool story, but why does it matter when I don't believe God exists?
Thanks for making this video Jo, I'm so sorry your experince in the church was so harmful, those messages are so insidious. This video felt very validating. I have mecfs and there is so little research, medical advice and treatment out there, and the disease itself is so nebulous, that the "think positive" mindset takes hold super easily. Its nice to be reminded that being sick isn't my fault.
100% agree as someone with the same thing going on (and much more). It's so tiring hearing from every which way how to "fix" myself. Including people that suffer from the same thing. So many don't seem to understand that our illnesses may be similar, but the treatment is not always the same.
However, I am grateful that long covid is shedding light on me/cfs though, despite my not wishing it upon anyone. Hopefully some good information will come to light and be useful for people like us, since there are many similar characteristics for a good percentage of LC sufferers.
I have ME/CFS too but there is a way out.
You just don't need to wait for doctors to catch up.
I chose an alternative path and I'm on my way to healing. If you're openminded then there are other options like booking a session with a good channeler and have a chat about your physical condition with someone that can advice you on how to treat it. Archangel Raphael would be a good one. People shake their head out of ignorance but that's on them.
You also need to understand that you made yourself sick.
ME. Doesn't come out of nowhere. I got it as a result of an adrenaline intoxication that I left untreated.
@neva.2764 The irony is so perfect. Maybe watch the video above ;)
@@eveem7197 I knew someone would post that comment. It doesn't matter. People with a daily meditation practice can figure it out All By Themselves, should they want to.
Edit: and those that say that it isn't their fault that they are ill lack basic knowledge about illness. It's not a "fault" but it's 99% of the time an emotional issue that didn't get attention and so it manifests in the physical. When you ignore that you created your sickness you can stay in a victim mentality and if there's one thing that is certain then it's that thát is DEFINITELY NOT the path to healing.
And congrats on completely denying that I'm well on my way on the path to full health after being bed ridden for 2 years.
It's progressive so good luck waiting for the doctor with the magical cure 👍
And there are Plenty People on the other side of the veil that can help you out. It doesn't need to be an (arch)angel. If you prefer an E.T . with advanced medical knowledge then that's possible too. Oh wait, they don't exist... 🙄
@@neva.2764 Here's the thing, things that work for you are not universal. It doesn't necessarily translate to being relevant to others. We all have our own unique issues. If treatments were universal, then we would have no need to have different treatments for cancers, as an example. What you have said is not logical and intellectually ill advised.
That said, that's lovely that you have found what works FOR YOU.
100% with you. You are such a breath of fresh air! I am not a Christian but I love the fact that you are not angry with God, but at the way some people are using his name. ❤👍
Completely agree and it's one reason I left the non-denominational, charismatic, christian church....and really all christian churches for that matter. Having suffered from a non-curable, auto-immune condition called plaque psoriasis, I was constantly told I was still afflicted because of my lack of faith.
Many years later, like a decade or two, since leaving the church, I came across a book called "Positive Energy" and it was all about "Asking the universe for a healing and then believing that you have the healing and you will 100% get the healing"....sound familiar?! Yeah I got suckered in and bought the book and about 1/2 way through I thought, "Wow, the underlying, unsaid theme here is that if you don't get a healing, well then you're quite clearly doing something wrong, not believing properly or you have some secret wish to stay in misery." I got so angry when that idea came into my mind BUT I still wanted healing.....then I remembered this was just a non-christian version of the things the church people told me. UGH! WTF?! WHY did I buy this book?!
My favorite thing I was EVER taught in any religious experience (I still walk a similar line to you, Jo) was from my favorite pastor I ever had. The core belief of him and the church I went to was that their philosophy was "this is NOT what you have to do to work your way to God. This is what God has done to work his way to you. You don't have to do anything to be loved and go to heaven. He has already done everything that needs to be done. If you choose to, you can believe and share his word with those around you, but there is NOTHING you can do to make him love you any less."
And that is truly what I believe and why I get so irritated with so many ways of teaching other people have. It's always people MUST do this this and this or God hates you and won't help you. But that's not the case. Whatever higher being you believe in, my mindset is that, should there be one, there is no way he or she or they or it would ever want you to feel the way some people force to you.
I believe that if there is a higher power, all that it wants is to ensure you have a home to go to when your time on earth is over, without you having to do anything to get there.
Thank you for sharing this. I agree with you, and it's moving to find somebody has faith in such a positive, inclusive way.
Are you a Universalist by any chance?
Thank you so much for bringing this to light. I'm SO sick of this kind of thing. This dude is SO toxic. I hope he never needs to know what being chronically I'll or disabled. It's SO wrong. Sickness isn't your fault. Ever.
The day you get told you have cancer is a remarkable one, and you never stop asking yourself why. It’s only outshone in memory by having to tell other people you have it, like telling your mum. Getting sick isn’t something that happens exclusively to others. He doesn’t seem to realise that.
Although you don’t stop asking ‘why’, the actual question should be, ‘why not.’
And I can absolutely state that I didn’t get it because of some kind of failing of character or belief system.
No, I hope he does find out.
@@michelleparksMe too, and something chronic and painful, perhaps genetic too boot. Love to see him fix that!
@@michelleparksme too,he needs to learn a lesson or two about illness and suffering long term. I know that suffering can make you better, because without suffering i would be a very critical and judgemental person, but i also know that a whole lot of suffering for years and years can very much break you, make you depressed, really darkly depressed, suicidal and can end up in you becoming a horrible person. I know it because i am in the stage where i can get sooooo angry at people, because i am soo angry about my own suffering. I.akso know that that anger is just hidden despair. I am doing my best to heal the despair and therefite the anger by embracing the despair and telling.myself or my.emotional self that it is going to be okay, that imam doing all that i can do and that anybody, any person, can only do their best not to become distrusting of other, negative,aggressive, toxic. Despair and anger are ego driven emotions, is what i have concluded so far from my experiences. But there is still so much kindness and love in the world, so many people manifest these qualities so often. Imperfect people,because none of us who are now on this planet, none of us who are still connected to a material body is totally perfect. We all have our shiny gifts and capacities and our things that we often do our best to improve on. So yes, I think he could do with a couple of years of suffering, say 10, maybe more, to realise how immensely foolish and also how dangerous his ideas are. We all are different,each of us differs in capacity, and we are all a work in progress. This guy is one.of the wolves in sheep skins,in my view. He is one of those who distorts truths and one that is mocking all that Christ exemplified when He was walking this earth.
Losing a limb is already hard enough. Having people give you false hope and even shame about it, is just disgusting.
Most people are just mislead, but these American TV-Pastors are just as close to evil as you can get.
They are 100% responsible for their followers denying treatment, suffering and dying because of them.
Their delusions are murderous.
I think the most frustrating times I’ve experienced this as a blind person was the time someone at a bus stop came up, grabbed my head and started praying for me, and the time I was on a trip with my Christian college and members of the host church asked my professor if they could pray and lay hands on me, and she pushed me into allowing it because it’s good for them as believers. Please, just leave me alone, or at the very least respect my bodily autonomy and consent.
When my neighborhood, was just getting settled, some recruiters for a local church knocked on my door, handed me a pamphlet, and seeing my wheelchair, suggested I turn to Chapter thus-and-such for inspiration on Jesus and Healing. I said to them: "I thank you for your concern. But my life is so full of blessings that I want for nothing." They said "God bless" and never returned. They did *not* ask me to join their congregation and spread my positive message; they were trying to use (what they imagined to be) my pain as a hook to get me to join. 🚩🚩🚩
I have a bible hanging on my front door. They never bother me.
(I did not put the bible there, one of the jesus recruiters did. I just left it there when I figured out that they no longer knocked with it here).
Truly horrible to hear people are being told they're sick or in pain or suffering because "they don't have enough faith". Really horrible horrible way of victim blaming. Adding the religious element must really mess with people's mental health.
I bet the man from the clips also sells some way of "improving your faith" that's only accessible through paying him.
When I was watching his videos yesterday I came across the opening to one of his sermons (I can't remember the correct one, my apologies)...where he talks about how you can find his faith healing course that has ALL THE SECRETS for $699, but its onsale for $499 or something like that. So, yeah, spot on.
He once laughed about taking every penny from a poor woman so yeah, spot on (other RUclipsrs I watched have covered his despicable ass).
@@waffles3629 I hate to say that doesn't remotely surprise me. I remember once sermon I heard years ago where he was esentially laughing at and ridiculing a woman who had died from cancer because she COULD have accepted healing but didn't and what a waste....I'm interested in hearing what other RUclipsrs have to say about him, I'm definitely going to look that up. 😔
@@FootlessJo yeah, he has a ridiculous number of absolutely revolting views. I think it was Owen Morgan who covered that particular video, though I'm not sure which of his channels it was on. He covers a lot of conspiracy theorists and religious nutjobs.
As a Catholic Priest, I would like to express my deepest sympathy for the pain and anguish that you experienced as a result of bad theology. God is not a vending machine of grace. We cannot pray our problems away... but we can invite God in and share our pain, anger, and fear. Any honest relationship can handle a little anger. The same is true for a person's relationship with God.
I found your channel when a dear friend of mine lost his leg, and I wanted to understand what his life was going to be like. Thank you for being you and for the insight you provide your viewers.
In my youth I broke my arm, asked my Friend's Mum to take me to the hospital. She took me to get faith healed instead, so the next day I had to take myself to the hospital. The buses in those days were real rattlers, that trip was excruciating. By half-way I hopped off and walked the rest of the way.
"If you don't have faith, you won't be healed," is an implication, but, "If you aren't healed, then you don't have faith," is a statement that is made as well. The slight difference is that you might be healed if you don't have faith, but this guy (as well as a lot of "faith healing") really leans into the, "If you aren't healed, then you don't have faith," because it then gives them an excuse to blame the individual
Jo I agree my your view about faith healing 100%. Thank you for sharing it.
I’m so sorry you had this experience of Christianity. You’re right faith can be a beautiful thing but religious communities can also be toxic and manipulative. I think churches in the UK are more subtle with this kind of thinking than the US but as someone who has chronic mental illness as well as CFS I’ve also come up against the idea that my illness was a result of not having enough faith, praying or reading my bible enough. It was particularly damaging when someone I had gone to for help told me that I had my identity in being ill. I still carry a lot of guilt and shame as a result. It can get even messier with mental illness when you throw in the idea of mental illness being a result of demon possession which I’ve come up against a few times. I believe in a God who can heal but often doesn’t, I won’t pretend to have any idea why. For me Christian community should be about being able to sit with another person in their pain, weep with them, hold their hand through the good days and the bad, reminding them they are loved and precious. Thank you for sharing your story, I always admire your courage and authenticity.
At 14 I had a boating accident and lost 1/8th of my brain. I was lucky, it destroyed my childhood memories but not mobility. I suffered epilepsy until 21 and it stopped. During this time I was approached and harassed by the local churches who kept telling me I was only alive so I could do God’s message and that I had a lot to give back. This seriously stuffed up my recovery as I could not find any reason while I was still alive. I saw numerous psychological practitioners over the years , have had a great marriage, 3 kids and still around at 67. But the indoctrination that I had been subjected to in those early years of recovery still make me question my worth. I am sorry you are experiencing similar issues with people who really have no idea what you really believe. Just one suggestion…. Enjoy your life to the full extent, question everything and then you have a foundation to make the right decisions when you need them. All the best from Australia.
Im a teenager with chronic knee pain and ive been struggling with accepting it and living with it for a bit. Thank you for providing some feeling of comfort and community ❤
I feel that, I was finally diagnosed at 19 with osteoarthritis in my right knee. I'm almost 50 now and thankfully physiotherapy helped me manage it so my xrays in my 30s aren't worse than my xrays in my teens (though I still have chronic pain but at least it's manageable rather than crippling), but I did go through a depression at the time because I felt that "not getting worse" was the best I could expect. I hope you find ways to manage it. I'm really lucky I found solutions in physiotherapy but I recognize that's not for everyone.
Thank you for sharing this and "coming out" as not being sure about your beliefs. Very brave. I'm sorry you went through that abusive church. A few years ago, I almost died in childbirth, and suffered a fever-induced psychotic episode in which I thought I was going to hell. I wrote about it on my blog. A few weeks later, my deeply religious in-laws came over to visit with me and my newborn baby. In that most vulnerable state, having just survived the NICU and the ICU, my in-laws told me that "If I put my faith in Jesus, I'll never have to worry about going to hell". It sounds great, like they're just trying to help, but I just lost it. Because all I heard was "yep, that psychotic episode you had, the worst moment of your entire life - was true - you really could have gone to hell if you had died, because you don't have faith." THANKS GUYS. How about a "I'm glad you're alive", huh?? I so wanted to kick them out of my house in that moment.
I was in my late 40s before I stopped believing in a diety. It was only then that I could recognize how some alledged Christians sought to inflict their personal version of Christianity on others. I don't have a problem with people having a belief they wish to follow, but the idea that a person's belief should be adopted by everyone else is insulting and childish. Bravo for your discussing this and don't be offended if I don't pray for you but wish you happiness and joy.
Regarding faith and healing I can maybe see that it could give someone a mental coping mechanism but I always think COULD but can is another thing . If it works for someone that is great but it may not work for all
Oh man, Jo, the exvangelical post-deconstruction grief and guilt is so real! I feel this so hard. I love how you’ve vocalised all this, so articulate and compassionate and nuanced. More life, more love to you!
I've been in a grocery line with my mom and a gentleman comes up and asks if he can pray for me(I was in my wheelchair like I am every single day). I kind of just sat there and said nothing. He proceeded to come over and try to touch me while praying. My mom said that he needed to stop and leave us alone. I've had a few interactions like this and I'm certain many others have aswell. If someone wants to pray for me on their own time that is kind in my opinion, however coming up to me and trying to pray over me without permission is not okay. Thanks Jo for another great video!!
I'm incredibly late responding to this video, but I wanted to take some time so I could make a thoughtful reply. I apologize in advance for the huge wall of text this'll be.
First, I'd like to give some background of what I've been taught in my faith. I'm very religious (LDS), and I count myself fortunate to have grown up in a community and congregation that taught that while faith is important, that doesn't mean that you will or won't be healed. What I've been taught (and I strongly believe) is that while we can pray to be healed, what's more important is to have the faith that God loves us and will give us the comfort and strength we need to get through life and the trials that we have, even if we're not healed during our lifetimes. As a person who has chronic pain and illness, as well as mental health issues, I find this to be very comforting.
Another thing that has been taught by LDS leaders is that while faith and prayer are important, we need to use everything we have available to us. That means going to doctors, taking advantage of modern medicine and mental health services, and seeking the medical help that we need. Sure, my faith encourages people to ask for blessings from those who are able to give them, and to pray for God for comfort and healing, but that it's really important to do everything possible on our end to be healed by taking medicine, having surgery if needed, and getting advice and help from medical/mental health professionals. It's not that God doesn't want us to be healed. Rather, it's that He obeys the rules that He's made that our reality has to follow. Sure, He has the power to suddenly make a health problem go away without the person who has it needing to go to the doctor or take medicine, but if he does that for one person and not another, that's not fair. I see it as being like a parent who has a bunch of kids that tells them they need to earn the money to get something they want, then tells one or two of the kids 'oh, I'll get this for you' while the rest have to do all they can on their own to get it, ergo breaking their own rule. I find it really comforting that God holds himself to the same rules He expects the universe to follow, and doesn't make exceptions or play favorites.
That being said, while I will always offer to pray for someone if they tell me they're dealing with a health issue or trial I will NEVER tell them that they need to pray pain or illness or injury or chronic health issues away. EVER. That's not how it works, and how DARE anyone try to fault someone for being mortal and the health trials that come with that! Instead, rather than pray for someone's healing (because let's be honest here, my definition of 'healed' is not necessarily the same as the person I'm praying for, or who might be praying for me) I pray that God will give them the strength and comfort they need as they deal with the health issue they have.
I also really, REALLY hate it when people say 'oh, you didn't have enough faith, or you were afraid and that meant you didn't have faith', thereby implying that it's my fault that I or someone I love stayed sick or worse. I'm going to get really personal here and share something I don't often put out there. My mom died from Stage 4 melanoma. It wasn't discovered until it was already at that point (and she was really good about getting skin checks and all that). When I would talk about it to my friends, and I'd tell them that I was scared, some of them would say 'You know, fear's the absence of faith. Just have faith, and it'll be okay!'. I HATED THAT SO MUCH. It always made me feel guilty, and that it'd be (and then was) my fault that my mom died! It took a lot of talking with my ecclesiastical leaders (who I was very lucky to have in that they had healthy perspectives on faith) and having them tell my that no, it wasn't my fault, and healing's not dependent on faith, and nobody has any right to put that burden on anyone else. I know of other people who have similar experiences to Jo's, both in the LDS faith and outside of it, and that's just sad that they'd have that idea of a God who would put that kind of burden on us.
That's the way I see faith and healing: faith certain doesn't hurt, and it can help with healing, but we need to utilize everything we have to be healed, and if nothing else, we can be sure that God loves us, doesn't like to see us hurting, and will give us comfort and strength as we go through things.
By the way, Jo, I have a serious question: how do you feel about someone saying that they'll pray for God to give you comfort and strength when you're going through something hard, healthwise or otherwise? Is that something that you find to be similar to someone saying they'll pray for you to be healed, or does it feel different to you? I'm really interested to know how you feel about it!
I appreciate your thoughts so much. I grew up in a similar church environment. I dealt with debilitating depression ever since I was a teenager. I can’t tell you how many hours and tears I spent praying to God to help me love myself and feeling horrible because “I didn’t have enough faith to be made whole.” It took me years to finally get to the point to go to a doctor for meds and not feel like garbage for taking meds just so I can feel like life is worth living. I’m still a Christian but I have reevaluated a lot of what I believe because of the environment I grew up in.
Jo, thank you for bringing up this important topic. I've had people forcefully pray for my disability to be healed, even touching me without permission and all it did was make me feel terrible and violated. I used to be full of hope and faith, but after being in an abusive relationship where my faith was taken advantage of and used to manipulate me, I can't help but see the same abusive tactics used by so many leaders of churches. I can't unsee it now and I'm questioning everything, which isn't a bad thing. My heart is broken over it though how something that is supposed to be beautiful can be used in such a malicious way. It has taken a lot of work to work out of that hole. Believers don't always recognize that they have been taught to ignore boundaries, which are designed to protect people. Violations like this need to be discussed more often, and again I thank you for sharing this important information.
Wow, this video hits close to home. I was raised in the Pentecostal church for part of my life (I’m out and still in therapy). I remember a lot of people talking about the power of healing through Christ. I remember the pastor would sometimes lambast church members for not praying for the illnesses of their children and other family members first before going to the hospital. Now after many years of therapy, I’ve come to find that I and many others in that church were abused by gaslighting malignant narcissist pastors. It’s sad because still to this day, some people in my family tell me I need to have faith when in reality what I really need is for them to just shut up and leave me alone.
It's right up there with "God never gives anyone more than they can handle". No, a lot of people are given way more than they can handle. I have friends whose family members and friends have taken their own lives because the pain was too much to handle.
Very resonating thoughts) And quite deep, too.
My faith started crumbling quite early in my life. A good friend of mine had brain cancer. He was 12 when he died. I spoke to the priests and other people of faith in the vicinity about why would god punish him this early and so terribly? The answers I got were... unconvincing, to say the least. Some said "he must have commited a terrible thing", which he didn't, he was very simple and kind. Others said "he must have had a soul of a saint and god took him for himself and your friend is happy now". And I asked, wouldn't it be egoistic to inflint so much pain on his family and friends so that god would be happy by acquiring a good soul? Only a child who doesn't know right from wrong could do that, or someone evil, that didn't sound "godly". Ultimately, all my attempts to find truth led to one answer: God walks in mysterious ways, we can't understand him". And I asked another question: why would you worship someone you cannot ever understand? Why does everyone read the scriptures differently and there's so much pain because of it? Burnings, crusades, entire populations, cultures and religions purged all in the name of someone they do not understand? The answer was, "don't say that, or he'll punish you, too". And there was another question which I never asked at that age: does this mean that it all comes down to fear? That I should pray to someone I don't understand sinply out of fear? Where's the love in that? That's anything but it. That's submission.
That conclusion remains with me until this day: I can't believe in somethingI cannot see or understand. Despite that I have some sort of faith, but it's still shaping up (I'm 36 right now). So in a way, I find my own faith that gives me comfort and solace.There's a lot of phychology in it and logic. But I don't attack people for their faith, they have the right to believe that they want. For as long as a person doesn't think that their religiousness gives them the right to do anything, i'm fine with it.
Thank you for your story :) Now I'm curious about other people's views (prepares for an interesting reading)
When I told a friend about getting my ADHD diagnosis and how relieved I was she said “I’ll pray for your healing”… and I was shocked… since I’ve had ADHD since I was very very young, and have no idea what I would be like without it. We had a conversation about a similar topic to this video and she came around to understanding why I don’t want to “be healed”