As a game designer I can say hands down your channel has some of the best analysis of the systems in board games. You guys are a wonderful resource for deep dives into games, so thank you! I would be curious your thoughts on Cyclades and or Inis.
I would also like a review for Inis as well :) I talked with Ashton about it a while back and I don't think he's been able to play it yet I'm gonna send him this screencap to bully him into giving us an Inis review.
Honestly, your reviews are consistently so amazingly researched, supported with examples and analysis, whilst making me chuckle at your sense of humour. Simply put these are the best boardgame reviews on the internet. Thank you for the commitment that you lend to your craft. Bloody brilliant! Congratulations guys, you continue to outdo yourselves.
No way! you guys actually posted it are you kidding me?!? it's like Christmas!!! I love this channel keep doing what you're doing boys you're doing great.
Super awesome review. I’m with Daniel on this one. Really enjoy the psychological aspect of this game. It really shines when you play with friends, thinking you know their personality and to see how differently they will approach this game.
@@Shelfside Yeah I would say that the game become much better with the expansions in play, it might change your criticisms abit. In our games the bonsai clan does VERY well, everyone wants to ally with them and the bonsai player rarely has much trouble getting money. We've had dragonfly clan even win a game, and the koi clan has never showed much promise at our table, never really making much headway. It's pretty cool to see how different everyone's experiences can be.
i have exactly 1 area control game on my shelf since I don't want to have a really big collection and Rising Sun is by far the best area control for me. The game gives me every aspect of areal control I want to have in a game, which is why it'll never leave my collection! great analysis of a really great game!
Great and thoughtful review! I like how you pay attention to the details and analyse the mechanics. I agree with Daniel. I love in this game everything he mentioned. And actually the actions system doesn't feel restrictive to me, as if you want to recruit, you can do it on a turn of other players or ask your ally to do it. In addition it reduces downtime. My score 10/10, my favorite game 🏆
We're describing it as restrictive in the sense that you don't do a bunch of your own actions and then pass the turn like in most other games, cause you can't just freely recruit without giving everyone else summons as well so you really have to think through your choices. And like you said, having to ask others to do something for you means less autonomy for players. -Daniel
I have EVERYTHING ever published of Rising Sun and I love it. I'm more with Daniel side here: the game is a 8/10 and the aesthetics are 10/10 withall the KS and expansions. I still haven't seen a better looking game on the table than this at this time. So I'll go 9/10, between the 2 scores above because for me you should also please the eye... and man, Rising Sun is so gorgeous ❤ Great review as always👍🏻
Rising Sun is fantastic if you realize that it is not what it looks like at first glance. It took me a couple plays to see it. Now I wouldn't even call it area control. It's by far the best E. Lang game.
Playing as Bonsai is basically hard mode. You can win with them; you just play with a handicap and have to do a bit of wheeling and dealing to get more income from others or take on favors from others so your cash reserve each season goes up. Definitely not recommended for new players.
Great review, the most thorough I have seen on RUclips for this game! I am really surprised Bonsai has not won any games in your group. The disadvantages you counted are actually more nuanced than that 1) Yes, they start with 4 money, but it's enough to cover 2 strongholds and 2 trains for the season (in case you and your ally Marshal). Plus, if you have captured a hostage before that, every 1 coin you get in addition to your seasonal income really helps. Plus there is a Kami who can allow you to train EVERY KAMI PHASE, and unless people want to block you from placing all 3 Shinto on it (and why would they if they think you are the weakest clan), you can really snowball 2) Yes, they start with the lowest honor, but most of the Oni have improved abilities when you are the lowest in honor. And Oni tend to have higher power anyways, so it's easier for you to not be tied for power in war phase or during harvest. Plus, as a bonus, you have more monsters than any other clan, so Betray is really bonkers, since you can replace any other monster with your own 3) About them not having a lot of money to fight.. Well, try to position your figure (who is probably a higher power) in the first province with someone who has a lot more money and needs that region. Spend couple of coins on "take hostage" for additional income and a point and just lose the fight. The person will probably give you enough money for the rest of the war phase if you pick your battles well Dragonfly is definitely for more experienced players, but if you manage to prepare an Autumn phase for Oni of Hate + the "move twice" Kami - that will just win you the game. Also, adding force by recruiting somewhere you don't have a Stronghold is VERY powerful once all the Marshalls are spent Also, I was about to mention that BGG thread with evolving Meta, but looks like you've got it ;) And it looks like you are at the Step 1 of this journey, if you think Koi is the OP clan :) and it doesn't matter how many people in your group you swap, if they are all new comers and you teach them the game as you see it - they will also be at Step 1. But trust me, there is more to it, if you like this game enough to play it more (unless you feel like Ashton about it :D) Would like to see another video after Daniel has played enough with expansions
1-That's really ideal and almost never happens, especially in games with lotus and turtle when lotus is burying marshals, and Ryujin coming out isn't even guaranteed. Even if it does, everyone already knows it's the best kami in the game regardless of Bonsai, and since Bonsai starts last, usually someone else gets Komanu and Bonsai cant get ryujin as a result, and negotiations are rough since everyone know it gives Bonsai cheat codes so Bonsai better offer something huge. Thinking something is the weakest doesn't mean ignoring them out of scorn, it means they're really easy to counter. It's like in TCG's and fighting games where there's these gimmick characters that are unstoppable once they get going, but they aren't actually competitively viable because top tiers know how to counter them easily; you still have to play to respect the cheese strat even if it isn't good. 2-The Oni strat is fine on Bonsai, but they do often get hostaged and Bonsai can't contest since they have no money. We've found the dragonfly are consistently the best oni clan because their ability makes them so much stronger, while Bonsai does way better spamming virtues. 3- Usually what fixes the money is just getting cards that improve it instead of monsters, virtues like respect make bonsai incredibly threatening if they have a bunch of strongholds and go wide, hostaging tons of minis during war and being ok with losing all those fights because of a virtue engine. 4- We don't think of Koi as OP, we think of Koi, Lotus, and Turtle as fine while Dragonfly is super punishing without the power ceiling to back it up, and Bonsai is slightly underpowered without expansions (they've gotten 2nd quite a few times, just haven't won yet). -Daniel
@@Shelfside Ah I did play with expansion monsters, i like to include them in all games. One of my favourite games though i do have problems with the mandate mechanism generally: makes number of turns uneven and can really screw a strategy if you dont get the action you need (which is why i think the Lotus clan is OP)
@@branboom3342 Yeah I don't think I've ever seen Lotus do poorly, they're just way too hard to keep down when you literally cant deny them mandates lol. Maybe not OP, but definitely very very strong (they scale poorly with more players since Lotus will perform less actions overall) -Daniel
Great review. The main flaw i see in this game is the lack of advantage for not bé in a alliance. Just to balance the advanges of alliance. They need some "way of the lone clan/warrior" type of card wich gives advantage like betryakng without loosing honor or getting money for not being in alliances.
I've not played Sideral Confluence, but the clip of the trading mayhem reminded me of the trading phase in the old Avalon Hill "Advanced Civilization". Honestly curious if the Shelfside crew has ever played that behemoth (time duration and player count, more so than table space) and how its old school design holds up.
I actually don't play Bonsai without the kami that allows you to buy every kami phase. Also FYI - Bonsai does allow you to buy strongholds for only 1 coin. It didn't sound you mentioned that in your discussion. Legitimately think that in general Bonsai is fairly useless otherwise and usually just play that faction when playing with new people who need the handicap. I typically win in this game maybe due to the fact that I own it and knowing this game gives you a pretty significant advantage which makes it hard to just play easily and get a competitive group unless this is the only game we play. I REALLY enjoy this game but ya there are it's problems. Root is my favorite game and it has a bit of that same feelings. Although I was fortunate enough to have ks copy. I HATE ks FOMO and this was a big reason for FOMO because the ks did actually really improve the game. Such a fun game and awesome theme yet has its share of problems with publishing
Bonsai getting strongholds was mentioned, hence why during the cons we were saying it's easy to deny bonsai marhals and trains if need be to block efficient ability use, the focus just happened to be more on cards because that's where they can end up really strong assuming they get the right cards. And yeah, I keep hearing cmon publishing is some whack shit lol -Daniel
I have seen many reviews of the three Eric Lang games, and almost all of them rank Blood Rage as the best. Me and my group have been playing all three games for years and we rank Blood Rage the worst. (We still like it but we like Ankh and Rising Sun more.) Then I figured out why these reviews rank Blood Rage as the best. It's because they rank them without the expansions. I feel like all three games were designed with the expansion in mind, and Blood Rage's expansion adds the least to the game. The full complete game with all expansions is the best version of all three of these games. Our group always plays with all the expansions, I can't imagine not using them, removing them would make these games worse. Now the one knock I will put on Rising Sun and Ankh is that the asymmetric factions are not well balanced. So when we play we give the weaker players the stronger factions. (I would prefer they did a better job of balancing them though.) We've taken to using alternative faction powers the last couple of years and that helps. Search online and you will find many alternatives.
possibly! I used to have it and sold it a long time ago because I thought the AP was way too crazy with the board states being really hard to track. Still awesome game that wish had a reprint, it was top 10 for me at some point! -Ashton
Wow, Your reviews are actually second to none!!! Such in depth explanation and so much critique into detail, along with just great editing!! I feel more intelligent, just by osmosis Lol!! 😉😉 Definitely feeling the passion here!! 😍 I can only imagine what it would be like, if you guys would start doing how to play videos as well!! 😱 Greetings from Europe (Switzerland) 🔥🔥🔥🔥🌈✨
I think that to some extent faction balance is influenced by group meta and number of players. In 3 player game there are less battles and there is always atleast one person without alliance. Dragonfly is much more effective due to their movement bonus. Bonsai can buy forts for 1 coin which acts which gives it similar oppurtunities to Dragonfly, they can also get really strong from good cards, but they are best in the alliance, outside of it they can be in the situation where they don't get to use orders that benefit them best often enough. Lotus underperforms in our games, because bad starting postition is much bigger weakness, only way to win is to fleece your ally like mad. Koi seems most balanced and Turtle is strongest (mostly because their bonus is straightforward and difficult to interfere with). Kami also can be gamebreaking. Bonus movement for Dragonfly, free forts for Turtle or more opportunities for card buying for Bonsai, can easily spiral out of control. To this point if you feel like some factions underperform you can use Kami to balance them a bit (we play with random everything).
The turn order based on honor is only for the first round and also summoning with the blue clan is also a benefit. Bonsai and Dragonfly are difficult to handle..... But there is a big issue of the game is the amount of actions as you represent.
Great review; it is look like you guys become cool on Eric Lang games. Have you ever try Antike or Imperial 2030? These are very unique area control games.
Is this the first 1/10 personal score from Ashton? I would like to know Ashton's objective recommender score. Please hypnotize and tell him that he is someone else (not Ashton) to give the score.
I like rising sun. But the excess of randomness in the setup trow me off a little. I think it would be better if the Kami were always the same in the same order in every game. So that the only variabilities are wich deck you are playing with and wich clans are in game. Also, the combat is TOO complex to my taste. It's so hard to predict what will happen, that in a lot of situations it actually feels like you are betting blind, because you are! And I really hate depending more on luck then on my mind... As for factions balance. Bonsai is indeed too weak if can't get the card Kami (we buffed it so that it pays 0 for everything, and it's still the weaker). Dragonfly is weaker, but can be viable if you exploit the Oni monsters moving then to steal points or kill enemies. Turtle is also weak, as it depends on marshal, so it's way too easy to deny then that mandate. Koi is by far the strongest... If you don't count Fox, wich is so broken we banned it (until we created a totally new skill for it). 3 players is the ideal count in my opinion. As each player has 2 mandates per season, and 1 extra in one of the seasons. This way everybody has more oportunity to make impactful decisions.
Yeah, that's why in the cons we talk about the identity crisis. We think Rising Sun would've greatly benefit from going more in either the whacky direction, or in the super tight no randomness direction, cause it's kinda suffering from the worst of both worlds atm. -Daniel
rising suns fundamental turn order problem ruins it for me. We also found the politics while emphasized in the rulebook didn't really happen. The alliances only gave you extra actions, it didn't give you any incentive to act like an ally.
The alliances are self serving, which can be hard to grasp initially! And the politics play a huge part over who's going where, so if you can ever convince others to allocate their forces and resources in a way that puts less pressure on you, that's a huge deal because you've effectively just won what would've otherwise been a battle. -Daniel
I am on Ashton's side. I had this game from KS, played it 4-5 times, then sold it with a good profit. I could not stand that I have to make an alliance or do betray. I could not stand that I finally have Godzilla, and then it is taken as hostage. WTW. We have these titans on the map, but we use them as they would be a common soldier. Why so many plastic then? At least in Small World everything is a thin board token, cause everything is fragile there.
Yeah, spending too much on monsters is a huge bait, monsters are definitely strong, but they have to be backed up with cash in order to become free wins. -Daniel
Hey man, are you reading of a tele-prompter or something or how are you able to speak that much without pause and still talk so eloquently and on point?? I'm kind of mind-blown right now hahahahaha lol 😂
Yup! I hate recording free form cause at that point I'd rather be streaming, since editing myself rambling and talking fast is a nightmare without a script to follow lol -Daniel
What I don't love about this game is it's poor use of theme. The way I see it, theme is the fuel for the player, it's in charge of players creating their own head-lore and feeling pumped when they stick to it. However, RS is not great at giving each mini a narrative, none can do more than their base value. Think of Risk, a single figure can become "THE warrior", and thus creating a short lived form of theme and group experiences. For a game with such a tedious set up, and a promise of war, it's a big flop that it fails at making each mini feel like a combatant, thereby failing to make me feel like I'm commanding an army.
Committing Seppuku, coming back to life, and saying, "Hold this L" was a riot. Well done! One of the funniest things I've seen on RUclips.
A question for a non-native speaker: What does "Hold this L" mean in this context?
@@OleksandrMilkovskyi A "W" is a Win, an "L" is a Loss. Or another way of saying, "You Lose".
@@ajeba98 thanks :)
That has to be one of your best intros yet, love it.
As a game designer I can say hands down your channel has some of the best analysis of the systems in board games. You guys are a wonderful resource for deep dives into games, so thank you!
I would be curious your thoughts on Cyclades and or Inis.
I would like to see a review for Inis too :)
I would also like a review for Inis as well :)
I talked with Ashton about it a while back and I don't think he's been able to play it yet
I'm gonna send him this screencap to bully him into giving us an Inis review.
+1 to inis Review
Honestly, your reviews are consistently so amazingly researched, supported with examples and analysis, whilst making me chuckle at your sense of humour. Simply put these are the best boardgame reviews on the internet. Thank you for the commitment that you lend to your craft. Bloody brilliant! Congratulations guys, you continue to outdo yourselves.
Wow, thank you!
good god, the opening skits just keep getting better and better!
No way! you guys actually posted it are you kidding me?!? it's like Christmas!!! I love this channel keep doing what you're doing boys you're doing great.
Super awesome review.
I’m with Daniel on this one. Really enjoy the psychological aspect of this game. It really shines when you play with friends, thinking you know their personality and to see how differently they will approach this game.
Yeah it's really fun being blindsided by unexpected bids lmao
-Daniel
And when there is that player who, when available, seppuku('s?) the shit out of people @@Shelfside
My table loves Rising Sun, we have pretty much all the expansions and it’s probably our most frequently played game
I'm still super excited about being able to play with all the expansions now that this base game review is done lmao
-Daniel
@@Shelfside Yeah I would say that the game become much better with the expansions in play, it might change your criticisms abit. In our games the bonsai clan does VERY well, everyone wants to ally with them and the bonsai player rarely has much trouble getting money. We've had dragonfly clan even win a game, and the koi clan has never showed much promise at our table, never really making much headway. It's pretty cool to see how different everyone's experiences can be.
It's still a bad game with cute cosmectics sorry.
This game needs a second edition dedicated to balance the clan and to buff playing without be part of an alliance
@@CamilleDeveveraux then go back to your shitty ticket to ride, azul and shit like that
Dude, these entry videos are f-ing hilarious 😂 Top tier
You guys have the BEST BG REVIEWS ON THE INTERNET! Please never stop!
i have exactly 1 area control game on my shelf since I don't want to have a really big collection and Rising Sun is by far the best area control for me. The game gives me every aspect of areal control I want to have in a game, which is why it'll never leave my collection! great analysis of a really great game!
I have ONE aera game , this game is the best. Thanks Captain Obvious.I'm pretty sure you already sold it btw.
@@CamilleDeveveraux nope.
This is the best board game intro/skit I have ever seen! Rewatched multiple times.
Great and thoughtful review! I like how you pay attention to the details and analyse the mechanics. I agree with Daniel. I love in this game everything he mentioned. And actually the actions system doesn't feel restrictive to me, as if you want to recruit, you can do it on a turn of other players or ask your ally to do it. In addition it reduces downtime. My score 10/10, my favorite game 🏆
We're describing it as restrictive in the sense that you don't do a bunch of your own actions and then pass the turn like in most other games, cause you can't just freely recruit without giving everyone else summons as well so you really have to think through your choices. And like you said, having to ask others to do something for you means less autonomy for players.
-Daniel
@@Shelfside huh. makes sense. I never thought about it this way :) thx for the answer!
I have EVERYTHING ever published of Rising Sun and I love it.
I'm more with Daniel side here: the game is a 8/10 and the aesthetics are 10/10 withall the KS and expansions.
I still haven't seen a better looking game on the table than this at this time.
So I'll go 9/10, between the 2 scores above because for me you should also please the eye... and man, Rising Sun is so gorgeous ❤
Great review as always👍🏻
Rising Sun is fantastic if you realize that it is not what it looks like at first glance. It took me a couple plays to see it. Now I wouldn't even call it area control. It's by far the best E. Lang game.
Comparing Rising Sun to TI 4 is just dumb. Rising Sun is a diplomacy area control game not a dudes on a map.
Out of the various cmon big box games, this is the only one I sought to own. Even over Blood Rage.
Good lord the first minute of this video was worth the price of admission. Great job guys (chef kiss)
Playing as Bonsai is basically hard mode. You can win with them; you just play with a handicap and have to do a bit of wheeling and dealing to get more income from others or take on favors from others so your cash reserve each season goes up. Definitely not recommended for new players.
That intro was amazing!
Thanks! 😁
Best intro of all time
intro got me crying, that's an instant subscribe
Love that this came out during a sunrise
Somehow the Master Duel OST really fit the hilarious intro
hell yea u know it!
-Daniel
That intro was fucking incredible.
THIS INTRO WAS EPIC ASF!!
These intros are life
Great review, the most thorough I have seen on RUclips for this game!
I am really surprised Bonsai has not won any games in your group. The disadvantages you counted are actually more nuanced than that
1) Yes, they start with 4 money, but it's enough to cover 2 strongholds and 2 trains for the season (in case you and your ally Marshal). Plus, if you have captured a hostage before that, every 1 coin you get in addition to your seasonal income really helps. Plus there is a Kami who can allow you to train EVERY KAMI PHASE, and unless people want to block you from placing all 3 Shinto on it (and why would they if they think you are the weakest clan), you can really snowball
2) Yes, they start with the lowest honor, but most of the Oni have improved abilities when you are the lowest in honor. And Oni tend to have higher power anyways, so it's easier for you to not be tied for power in war phase or during harvest. Plus, as a bonus, you have more monsters than any other clan, so Betray is really bonkers, since you can replace any other monster with your own
3) About them not having a lot of money to fight.. Well, try to position your figure (who is probably a higher power) in the first province with someone who has a lot more money and needs that region. Spend couple of coins on "take hostage" for additional income and a point and just lose the fight. The person will probably give you enough money for the rest of the war phase if you pick your battles well
Dragonfly is definitely for more experienced players, but if you manage to prepare an Autumn phase for Oni of Hate + the "move twice" Kami - that will just win you the game. Also, adding force by recruiting somewhere you don't have a Stronghold is VERY powerful once all the Marshalls are spent
Also, I was about to mention that BGG thread with evolving Meta, but looks like you've got it ;)
And it looks like you are at the Step 1 of this journey, if you think Koi is the OP clan :) and it doesn't matter how many people in your group you swap, if they are all new comers and you teach them the game as you see it - they will also be at Step 1. But trust me, there is more to it, if you like this game enough to play it more (unless you feel like Ashton about it :D)
Would like to see another video after Daniel has played enough with expansions
1-That's really ideal and almost never happens, especially in games with lotus and turtle when lotus is burying marshals, and Ryujin coming out isn't even guaranteed. Even if it does, everyone already knows it's the best kami in the game regardless of Bonsai, and since Bonsai starts last, usually someone else gets Komanu and Bonsai cant get ryujin as a result, and negotiations are rough since everyone know it gives Bonsai cheat codes so Bonsai better offer something huge. Thinking something is the weakest doesn't mean ignoring them out of scorn, it means they're really easy to counter. It's like in TCG's and fighting games where there's these gimmick characters that are unstoppable once they get going, but they aren't actually competitively viable because top tiers know how to counter them easily; you still have to play to respect the cheese strat even if it isn't good.
2-The Oni strat is fine on Bonsai, but they do often get hostaged and Bonsai can't contest since they have no money. We've found the dragonfly are consistently the best oni clan because their ability makes them so much stronger, while Bonsai does way better spamming virtues.
3- Usually what fixes the money is just getting cards that improve it instead of monsters, virtues like respect make bonsai incredibly threatening if they have a bunch of strongholds and go wide, hostaging tons of minis during war and being ok with losing all those fights because of a virtue engine.
4- We don't think of Koi as OP, we think of Koi, Lotus, and Turtle as fine while Dragonfly is super punishing without the power ceiling to back it up, and Bonsai is slightly underpowered without expansions (they've gotten 2nd quite a few times, just haven't won yet).
-Daniel
Excellent review, that intro was epic lmao!
I have played RS 6 times and my only wins were with Dragonfly and Bonzai lol
Edit: changed Lotus to Bonzai
Nice! Were the Dragonfly wins with or without expansions? Cause extra monsters can get leveraged pretty hard with Dragonfly!
-Daniel
@@Shelfside Ah I did play with expansion monsters, i like to include them in all games. One of my favourite games though i do have problems with the mandate mechanism generally: makes number of turns uneven and can really screw a strategy if you dont get the action you need (which is why i think the Lotus clan is OP)
@@branboom3342 Yeah I don't think I've ever seen Lotus do poorly, they're just way too hard to keep down when you literally cant deny them mandates lol. Maybe not OP, but definitely very very strong (they scale poorly with more players since Lotus will perform less actions overall)
-Daniel
"Hold this L!" made me genuinely laugh - such a good intro :D :D
Badly written rulebooks are a pet peeve of mine; I find it challenging when rules are unclear or poorly structured.
Great intro
Outstanding review!! One of the best for this game!
Question: is there any heat in that apartment? you guys always seem cold.
cheers! There is no heat in that room specifically, that's why we have to bundle up during these months! -Ashton
Will you guys review Kemet, Inis, or Cyclades? Maybe give Eric Lang a break?
Great review.
The main flaw i see in this game is the lack of advantage for not bé in a alliance.
Just to balance the advanges of alliance.
They need some "way of the lone clan/warrior" type of card wich gives advantage like betryakng without loosing honor or getting money for not being in alliances.
That intro tho!
I've not played Sideral Confluence, but the clip of the trading mayhem reminded me of the trading phase in the old Avalon Hill "Advanced Civilization". Honestly curious if the Shelfside crew has ever played that behemoth (time duration and player count, more so than table space) and how its old school design holds up.
You get a thumbs up for that intro alone
I actually don't play Bonsai without the kami that allows you to buy every kami phase. Also FYI - Bonsai does allow you to buy strongholds for only 1 coin. It didn't sound you mentioned that in your discussion. Legitimately think that in general Bonsai is fairly useless otherwise and usually just play that faction when playing with new people who need the handicap. I typically win in this game maybe due to the fact that I own it and knowing this game gives you a pretty significant advantage which makes it hard to just play easily and get a competitive group unless this is the only game we play. I REALLY enjoy this game but ya there are it's problems. Root is my favorite game and it has a bit of that same feelings. Although I was fortunate enough to have ks copy. I HATE ks FOMO and this was a big reason for FOMO because the ks did actually really improve the game. Such a fun game and awesome theme yet has its share of problems with publishing
Bonsai getting strongholds was mentioned, hence why during the cons we were saying it's easy to deny bonsai marhals and trains if need be to block efficient ability use, the focus just happened to be more on cards because that's where they can end up really strong assuming they get the right cards. And yeah, I keep hearing cmon publishing is some whack shit lol
-Daniel
What an intro!
For a Japanese-themed game with more area control, it would be cool to see you guys review Ikusa (Shogun / Samurai Swords)
Rising Sun at last🎊🙌🎉🙌🥳🙌
Congratulations🎂
I have seen many reviews of the three Eric Lang games, and almost all of them rank Blood Rage as the best. Me and my group have been playing all three games for years and we rank Blood Rage the worst. (We still like it but we like Ankh and Rising Sun more.) Then I figured out why these reviews rank Blood Rage as the best. It's because they rank them without the expansions. I feel like all three games were designed with the expansion in mind, and Blood Rage's expansion adds the least to the game. The full complete game with all expansions is the best version of all three of these games. Our group always plays with all the expansions, I can't imagine not using them, removing them would make these games worse.
Now the one knock I will put on Rising Sun and Ankh is that the asymmetric factions are not well balanced. So when we play we give the weaker players the stronger factions. (I would prefer they did a better job of balancing them though.) We've taken to using alternative faction powers the last couple of years and that helps. Search online and you will find many alternatives.
Maybe one day Chaos in the old world review? Ik it's out of print, but it would be awesome anyway.
possibly! I used to have it and sold it a long time ago because I thought the AP was way too crazy with the board states being really hard to track. Still awesome game that wish had a reprint, it was top 10 for me at some point! -Ashton
still tilted you got rid of it lmao
-Daniel
@@Shelfside Ye, I remember you ranked it as your 10th fav boars game. I'm not sure what "AP" means, assymetric powers O_o?
@@bartekbe423 Oh yeah, analysis paralysis is what AP stands for! -Ashton
16k views, only 745 likes. People, please spread the love. The amount of work that goes into making these vids... PEOPLE, it's the least you can do.
Thanks! It is a long video on a kinda old game so it's to be expected haha
-Daniel
Wow, Your reviews are actually second to none!!! Such in depth explanation and so much critique into detail, along with just great editing!! I feel more intelligent, just by osmosis Lol!! 😉😉 Definitely feeling the passion here!! 😍 I can only imagine what it would be like, if you guys would start doing how to play videos as well!! 😱 Greetings from Europe (Switzerland) 🔥🔥🔥🔥🌈✨
Wow, thanks! We'll keep em coming!
-Daniel
I think that to some extent faction balance is influenced by group meta and number of players. In 3 player game there are less battles and there is always atleast one person without alliance. Dragonfly is much more effective due to their movement bonus. Bonsai can buy forts for 1 coin which acts which gives it similar oppurtunities to Dragonfly, they can also get really strong from good cards, but they are best in the alliance, outside of it they can be in the situation where they don't get to use orders that benefit them best often enough. Lotus underperforms in our games, because bad starting postition is much bigger weakness, only way to win is to fleece your ally like mad. Koi seems most balanced and Turtle is strongest (mostly because their bonus is straightforward and difficult to interfere with).
Kami also can be gamebreaking. Bonus movement for Dragonfly, free forts for Turtle or more opportunities for card buying for Bonsai, can easily spiral out of control. To this point if you feel like some factions underperform you can use Kami to balance them a bit (we play with random everything).
The turn order based on honor is only for the first round and also summoning with the blue clan is also a benefit. Bonsai and Dragonfly are difficult to handle..... But there is a big issue of the game is the amount of actions as you represent.
Hey, Daniel. How was your experience with all the extra stuff?
that intro 🤣
Great review; it is look like you guys become cool on Eric Lang games. Have you ever try Antike or Imperial 2030? These are very unique area control games.
Killer video
At 48:38 His Honor hit rock bottom
Man I wish they could rerelease all those old Kickstarter versions...
Same, this is definitely a game that deserves to be widely available
-Daniel
BEST INTRO ! i have ankh and blood rage , i think risig sun is 3rd in the trilogy
Is this the first 1/10 personal score from Ashton?
I would like to know Ashton's objective recommender score. Please hypnotize and tell him that he is someone else (not Ashton) to give the score.
ahaha, the recommender score is a 8/10 from me! We come up with it together -Ashton
Love this game!
😆 Damn it! You are the f***n best!!
Thank you for the video
Hilarious!! Love you guys
I like rising sun. But the excess of randomness in the setup trow me off a little.
I think it would be better if the Kami were always the same in the same order in every game. So that the only variabilities are wich deck you are playing with and wich clans are in game.
Also, the combat is TOO complex to my taste. It's so hard to predict what will happen, that in a lot of situations it actually feels like you are betting blind, because you are! And I really hate depending more on luck then on my mind...
As for factions balance. Bonsai is indeed too weak if can't get the card Kami (we buffed it so that it pays 0 for everything, and it's still the weaker). Dragonfly is weaker, but can be viable if you exploit the Oni monsters moving then to steal points or kill enemies. Turtle is also weak, as it depends on marshal, so it's way too easy to deny then that mandate. Koi is by far the strongest... If you don't count Fox, wich is so broken we banned it (until we created a totally new skill for it).
3 players is the ideal count in my opinion. As each player has 2 mandates per season, and 1 extra in one of the seasons. This way everybody has more oportunity to make impactful decisions.
Yeah, that's why in the cons we talk about the identity crisis. We think Rising Sun would've greatly benefit from going more in either the whacky direction, or in the super tight no randomness direction, cause it's kinda suffering from the worst of both worlds atm.
-Daniel
Well dang. I just played Rising Sun the other day and we didnt play with A HUGE chunk of the rules. I guess I'll have to give it another try?
4:02 they aren’t, right? 5:05.
rising suns fundamental turn order problem ruins it for me. We also found the politics while emphasized in the rulebook didn't really happen. The alliances only gave you extra actions, it didn't give you any incentive to act like an ally.
The alliances are self serving, which can be hard to grasp initially! And the politics play a huge part over who's going where, so if you can ever convince others to allocate their forces and resources in a way that puts less pressure on you, that's a huge deal because you've effectively just won what would've otherwise been a battle.
-Daniel
That's crazy, I always win with bonsai
I am on Ashton's side. I had this game from KS, played it 4-5 times, then sold it with a good profit. I could not stand that I have to make an alliance or do betray. I could not stand that I finally have Godzilla, and then it is taken as hostage. WTW. We have these titans on the map, but we use them as they would be a common soldier. Why so many plastic then? At least in Small World everything is a thin board token, cause everything is fragile there.
Yeah, spending too much on monsters is a huge bait, monsters are definitely strong, but they have to be backed up with cash in order to become free wins.
-Daniel
Kino
Hey man, are you reading of a tele-prompter or something or how are you able to speak that much without pause and still talk so eloquently and on point?? I'm kind of mind-blown right now hahahahaha lol 😂
Yup! I hate recording free form cause at that point I'd rather be streaming, since editing myself rambling and talking fast is a nightmare without a script to follow lol
-Daniel
What I don't love about this game is it's poor use of theme.
The way I see it, theme is the fuel for the player, it's in charge of players creating their own head-lore and feeling pumped when they stick to it.
However, RS is not great at giving each mini a narrative, none can do more than their base value. Think of Risk, a single figure can become "THE warrior", and thus creating a short lived form of theme and group experiences. For a game with such a tedious set up, and a promise of war, it's a big flop that it fails at making each mini feel like a combatant, thereby failing to make me feel like I'm commanding an army.
8/10, 1/10, 3/10… not sure what to think oy
Warhammer Chaos in the old world is harder, better, older, stronger and has no gray stuff in the box.
Minis are pretty crap in comparison tho
@@DustyLamp yes
BLAH BLAH BLAH! Damn! Too Much information at one time. Breathe dude, breathe!
bwahaha!
I did not like this game either. Blood rage was my favorite.
same here! -Ashton
Good review. Saves me money as I will not be buying this game. But guys.... 1 hour review. Thats to long.
It's my favorite game, even though it has flaws
I’m here.
Daniel actually has taste. This is unexpected.
This game all considered is mediocre at best, only things that saves is it's cosmectics. Prove me wrong.
Ashton has no taste. It’s 10:10