An old thread but JFI it is easier to use a little iron sulphate from the gardening aisles and put your used tea bags to steep for a few days then use the tea to raise the tannin content and then wash on a solution of the iron sulphate. Cheap enough to use to cover a wooden garden shed.
I brewed a thick brew of black tea (24 bags) and got a soup with tannines. You can apply this to wood that has a little tannines and get really dark birch when applying the vinegar/iron.
I bought some ebony stain when I was working on a magic wand for halloween. The oak stain reminded me of it, and agreed about not being my favorite stain.
You can skip the one-week long blackening process of the iron solution just by pouring some peroxide in it (or in the vinegar to dissolve the iron faster). It will oxidise the iron instantly (and won't left any hydrogen peroxide residues because it spontaneusly decomposes at the end of the reaction) and you can also use a more powerful household acid such as muriatic or battery acid to dissolve the iron faster. You may also have to remove any undissolved iron from the darkened liquid because it would bring the reaction back to the green iron(II). P.S. Still want to keep old-style and don't want to use peroxide? Try to treat the green solution with baking soda or asch or ground egg shell untill it becomes cloudy; shake the suspension so that it can react with the air and became black in a minute, filter it in a funnel with some tissue, keep the black powder that remains in the filter and dissolve it with vinegar. The final solution has the same composition of the one left to oxidise for a week.
I have some holly to make walking sticks and I will try the recipe on a couple once they have dried...thank you so much for sharing this, Harry...fascinating...
Chris - thanks for the feedback - I had a similar experience with cedar. I don't know how to speed up the transition to grey - perhaps one of our fellow viewers will. I was once asked to coat a fence in horse urine to help age it and to help litchen grow - may have been a wind up........
I have used this On leather.It seems to make the black color go deep into the leather.I used some rusty nails and old steel wool I had around.It did Not blacken KD Red Oak ,but darkened it.Multiple passes are needed. Interesting. Thank you.
when I was about 11 (I'm 66 now!) a local church was being renovated and new pews were being blackened(ebonising?) they were covered with plastic sheeting and large bowls of what I think was ammonia placed inside the plastic sheeting tent overnight , a couple of weeks later you could not tell the old from the new Perhaps you could check if my memory is correct? :)
Brilliant video!! This is going to help me loads. I'm studying Furniture Making at University in Leeds and I am going to attempt to ebonise my next piece. If I get chance I will upload a responce if the result turns out well!
The finish on the oak looked spectacular. Going to make some of this for a box. Where can I find out about the tannic acid content of mahogany? I lucked into some remnants from a cabinet maker:-D
Excellent video! I am about to make some stuff out of Oak and I have often with that there was an alternative to shop-bought woodstain, just got to get some Cider Vinegar and I'll be away. Thanks.
You didn't miss it - sorry I should have said - we tried to do a timelapse - anyway after about 10 to 20 minutes it was fairly dark, and after two hours it was deep black on the oak - the final shots in the video were taken 24 hours after the initial painting on of the solution. I hope that helps. Harry
I recently experimented with this and I put one full wad of #0000 super fine steel wool in a 2 quart bottle of white vinegar. It took a week for the steel wool to dissolve. I only tried the solution on new rough cedar fence picket (red in color). I was hoping to age the red to a gray but ended up with a very dark color like a blackish oxblood. Not the color I wanted but the effect is different on different woods and how you apply it (light brushing, heaving brushing, spraying, rubbing etc).
Mahogany does contain tannin but I don't know how much - I think its just worth giving it a go with a bit to see what happens, and whether you like the colour - a nice wood to work with.
Hi - short of planing down, I can't think of any - some linseed oil may get some colour back? Hopefully someone else reading this may be able to offer some better suggestions. Sorry I can't help more. Harry
Scott - that's great. You might want to also consider as an experiment adding tannin to the wood if you want to get an even darker result - I wonder if one could do that by making a solution of oak bark - in the States there is a bark readily available that is used for its tannin - could be an interesting area for some research. Good luck with your course - do consider joining bodgers.org - costs £15 per year, will give you a totally different perspective. Harry
Ha, so far, the only thing I've managed to turn grey was my hair. I did have good results mixing one full box of baking soda with a gallon of water in a pump up sprayer but it turned out to only be temporary. It turned the cedar a decent grey in 24 hours but it was actually an illusion. A rain came and soaked the wood and it turned back red, so what I was seeing was actually just the baking soda granules spread out over the surface. There's probably no way to age the cedar except for sunshine.
Yes I realise that it doesn't rub off, it just looked as if it had a little excess on top. I would like to see what they would look like with a bit of lacquer on. I used to have a workshop and do a lot of antique restoration when I lived in England but never tried this method. Using it on beech instead of Van Dyck would be interesting.
I'm not sure why you'd need to substitute vinegar since it's one of the most common materials around, available in practically any food store in the world.
this would be a pretty cool idea on a large scale, I'm a floor refinisher. I would like to do this to the floor, is this process permanent? Or can it be refinished later to the Natural State of the wood?
+Graham Higgins Several things you can do for your arthritic horse or other pet. 1. Apple cider vinegar in water. Vinegar MUST BE CLOUDY WHEN SHAKEN, NOT CLEAR. Do not consume any vinegar that is clear it is useless for health. Cloudiness is bacteria in UNFILTERED vinegar that is good for you. Always shake it, and when cloudy, pour for use. In the US, Fleischmann's makes a line of unfiltered vinegars, or use Farmers Markets, or Bragg brand, or Trader Joe's brand. This helps with arthritis joint pain in all living things. 2. Arthritis could be the result of poor digestion. What will also help animals (don't know much about horses, but works for dogs and cats) is the use of probiotics, and digestive enzymes. Undigested food creates toxins which end up as joint pain and inflammation. 3. MSM crystals in food. MSM is sulfur mineral. Add crystals to food, and it reduces inflammation and joint pain drastically. Also improves nails, hair, skin, and fights fungus. 4. DMSO topically. This is also sulfur. Use the 99.9% gel form on Amazon. Its a white jar with blue letters, not the green or red colored labels. MAKE SURE SKIN IS CLEAN AND NO TOXINS OR CHEMICALS ARE ON SKIN!!! DMSO (Dimethylsulfoxide) goes through skin barrier immediately and delivers oxygen, reduces pain and inflammation drastically. DMSO GOES THROUGH SKIN BARRIER SO ANY CHEMICALS LEFT ON SKIN, WILL GO THROUGH AS WELL. Do not rub down your horse with arsenic when you use DMSO, as arsenic will go through the skin and kill the horse. Other than that, DMSO is perfectly safe to use on horse, dog, human, etc. Apply with your hand or tool, but wash your hand immediately with non toxic soap right after so anything you handle does not go through your skin either. If you want to add MSM crystals to the DMSO poultice, it will help your horse even more. You can add any medications to be delivered directly to the horse joint (I am not a doctor, check with your vet) and DMSO will take it there, bypassing the gastric system. DMSO is used on million dollar race horses joints right after races to reduce inflammation. Good stuff. The FDA in USA prefers not to regulate its use but we all know that drug companies would be out of business if DMSO were used instead. So use it, but safely. All controversy around this product stems from unsafe use.
Question- I ebonized my swamp ash guitar to achieve a pebble look/color, I love it, however when I try to finish it with tru oil I loose my color and it just looks like wet wood. I need a finish that does not discolour the wood.....any thoughts? If I place a wet finger on the wood I loose the light gray color ....please help.
idealmethod Hi I am a bit puzzled by that ....usually the ebonising is permanent.......is there a bleaching agent in the oil? Sorry I am puzzled - hopefully someone here can help you.
how to apply a protective coat onto wood without changing the color of the wood. my ebonizing is permanent however when you apply an oil onto it it goes darker! how do i maintain the color.
how would a wood that went through this process behave outside in wind, raid and sun? I want to dress part of my house with a black colored wood planks for design purposes, but I do not want to have to treat it every few years. What would be a better alternative for my use?
+Harry Rogers I seen another video where they added boiled linseed oil after the vinegar was done working to stabilize the solution and help it penetrate into the wood better.
sir save yourself time ,use steel wool, let it set at least 24 hours, white vinegar and apple cider give two slightly different color variations, if you let the mix stay for long periods of time the liquid will actually turn to rust water. don't waste it,this will give the wood a very different color, experiment, also take white vinegar hydrogen peroxide and warm it then add a hand full of pennies to get a lite green stain works instantly.
I used it to make a veg tan knife sheath turn BLACK, worked a treat. But today I used the same mixture (which was stood in a cupboard under the sink for like 6 months but it didnt turn my oak drum shell black, more like a pale blue slate sort of colour. I think the mixture needs to be fresh. I done pine a while ago and it went black too but painted strong tea on the wood before the vinegar/iron mix. Its good that ypu still see the figure of the wood even though its dense black (usually) The best result was on a chestnut plate, the black combined with the tool marks was very nice
Even better, you can get extracted tannin from a high tannin species (like red oak,explaining why your red oak turned black) and dissolve the tannin in solvent and apply to a low tannin wood (like pine or even pressboard). The key is to find a solvent that can dissolve the tannin and penetrate the wood. Different solvents will give different results. I used both white and apple cider vinegar for making vinegar water. My first batch used some rusty nails/screws that I had in an old rusty metal coffee can. The second batch I used #00 steel wool. The steel wool completely dissolves into the vinegar giving a superior result. I will have to repeat my procedure and post the results as I was able to get pine pretty dark.
Used on leather this would be called Vinegaroon dye. It actually changes the composition of the leather and the colour can't be worn off as it completely penetrates
Absolutely! I will be carrying out a few different test pieces anyway, so I will attempt to add tannin for one of the test runs and see how it looks! I've found an article on extracting tannin which demonstrates it in 4 easy steps! ehow.com/how_12001502_extract-oak-tannins.html Thanks alot for the heads up, ill check it out! Scott
An old thread but JFI it is easier to use a little iron sulphate from the gardening aisles and put your used tea bags to steep for a few days then use the tea to raise the tannin content and then wash on a solution of the iron sulphate. Cheap enough to use to cover a wooden garden shed.
Thanks John.
Yes, and it even had a glassy look that probably does not come across in the video. Wand making was an unusual commission! Harry
I brewed a thick brew of black tea (24 bags) and got a soup with tannines. You can apply this to wood that has a little tannines and get really dark birch when applying the vinegar/iron.
I bought some ebony stain when I was working on a magic wand for halloween. The oak stain reminded me of it, and agreed about not being my favorite stain.
You can skip the one-week long blackening process of the iron solution just by pouring some peroxide in it (or in the vinegar to dissolve the iron faster). It will oxidise the iron instantly (and won't left any hydrogen peroxide residues because it spontaneusly decomposes at the end of the reaction) and you can also use a more powerful household acid such as muriatic or battery acid to dissolve the iron faster.
You may also have to remove any undissolved iron from the darkened liquid because it would bring the reaction back to the green iron(II).
P.S. Still want to keep old-style and don't want to use peroxide? Try to treat the green solution with baking soda or asch or ground egg shell untill it becomes cloudy; shake the suspension so that it can react with the air and became black in a minute, filter it in a funnel with some tissue, keep the black powder that remains in the filter and dissolve it with vinegar. The final solution has the same composition of the one left to oxidise for a week.
Thanks 👍
Thanks thats a really useful tip - I did wonder about grinding up some oak bark, but your suggestion is far better - thanks for sharing - Harry
wow that turned out beautifully I must try this on some of my projects
I have some holly to make walking sticks and I will try the recipe on a couple once they have dried...thank you so much for sharing this, Harry...fascinating...
groseillegrowa sounds like a good project - good luck
Chris - thanks for the feedback - I had a similar experience with cedar. I don't know how to speed up the transition to grey - perhaps one of our fellow viewers will. I was once asked to coat a fence in horse urine to help age it and to help litchen grow - may have been a wind up........
I have used this On leather.It seems to make the black color go deep into the leather.I used some rusty nails and old steel wool I had around.It did Not blacken KD Red Oak ,but darkened it.Multiple passes are needed. Interesting. Thank you.
when I was about 11 (I'm 66 now!) a local church was being renovated and new pews were being blackened(ebonising?) they were covered with plastic sheeting and large bowls of what I think was ammonia placed inside the plastic sheeting tent overnight , a couple of weeks later you could not tell the old from the new Perhaps you could check if my memory is correct? :)
peter forden yes that was the way it was done....bank counters were ebonised like that as well...interesting story Peter.
Holly is regularly used as an ebony substitute,can be stained to match and a very hard wood.
Yes Thanks - that is a very good point - Gimson and the Barnsley's used it quite a lot in their cabinets to very good effect .
Brilliant video!! This is going to help me loads. I'm studying Furniture Making at University in Leeds and I am going to attempt to ebonise my next piece. If I get chance I will upload a responce if the result turns out well!
I think you're right - always put the panels in a sunbed! The salon owner might have something to say!!
Thank U for sharing this. Nice and informativ presentation. I was searching for this information.
+viking1ur Thanks.
The finish on the oak looked spectacular. Going to make some of this for a box. Where can I find out about the tannic acid content of mahogany? I lucked into some remnants from a cabinet maker:-D
Good to hear how it goes - presumably mediterranean oak has a good tannin content?
Excellent video! I am about to make some stuff out of Oak and I have often with that there was an alternative to shop-bought woodstain, just got to get some Cider Vinegar and I'll be away.
Thanks.
Thank you!! Interesting experiment! I'll try it soon...
You didn't miss it - sorry I should have said - we tried to do a timelapse - anyway after about 10 to 20 minutes it was fairly dark, and after two hours it was deep black on the oak - the final shots in the video were taken 24 hours after the initial painting on of the solution. I hope that helps. Harry
Hi - I'm not certain, but why not try some other and see, I don't really see why not - please let us know how it goes. Thanks Harry
I recently experimented with this and I put one full wad of #0000 super fine steel wool in a 2 quart bottle of white vinegar. It took a week for the steel wool to dissolve. I only tried the solution on new rough cedar fence picket (red in color). I was hoping to age the red to a gray but ended up with a very dark color like a blackish oxblood. Not the color I wanted but the effect is different on different woods and how you apply it (light brushing, heaving brushing, spraying, rubbing etc).
Mahogany does contain tannin but I don't know how much - I think its just worth giving it a go with a bit to see what happens, and whether you like the colour - a nice wood to work with.
hi Marion - thanks - there are also some tips from fellow youtubers below.
Hi - short of planing down, I can't think of any - some linseed oil may get some colour back? Hopefully someone else reading this may be able to offer some better suggestions. Sorry I can't help more. Harry
Just what i needed! Thanks. Though ill probably make the Iron Acetate a bit differently, using some more advanced chemistry.
Perhaps try ordinary vinegar - probably less acidic but should work OK.
wow if you smell that the next time you see it even on a video the smell comes up again :P
Scott - that's great. You might want to also consider as an experiment adding tannin to the wood if you want to get an even darker result - I wonder if one could do that by making a solution of oak bark - in the States there is a bark readily available that is used for its tannin - could be an interesting area for some research. Good luck with your course - do consider joining bodgers.org - costs £15 per year, will give you a totally different perspective. Harry
Hi pal, I have some external oak beams that have dried out grey due to direct sunlight, any tips in restoring to the original colour??
Ha, so far, the only thing I've managed to turn grey was my hair. I did have good results mixing one full box of baking soda with a gallon of water in a pump up sprayer but it turned out to only be temporary. It turned the cedar a decent grey in 24 hours but it was actually an illusion. A rain came and soaked the wood and it turned back red, so what I was seeing was actually just the baking soda granules spread out over the surface. There's probably no way to age the cedar except for sunshine.
Was wondering how much would sort of wipe off? Would be nice to see them finished
It's permanent so no wipe off....I hope that helps
Yes I realise that it doesn't rub off, it just looked as if it had a little excess on top. I would like to see what they would look like with a bit of lacquer on. I used to have a workshop and do a lot of antique restoration when I lived in England but never tried this method. Using it on beech instead of Van Dyck would be interesting.
I'm not sure why you'd need to substitute vinegar since it's one of the most common materials around, available in practically any food store in the world.
Which wood is heavier oak vs beech vs ash?
sorry if i missed it, but how long did you let the solution sit and soak on your stock?
it would take about a week in warm weather
this would be a pretty cool idea on a large scale, I'm a floor refinisher. I would like to do this to the floor, is this process permanent? Or can it be refinished later to the Natural State of the wood?
Hi...it's permanent...they used to do bank counters with it..a lot of wrapping to get fume encased!!!
really liked it. Wanted to get a blackened effect, but I'm using Pine.
Also harry, what did you say about arthritic horses and cider vinegar? Graham.
+Graham Higgins Several things you can do for your arthritic horse or other pet.
1. Apple cider vinegar in water. Vinegar MUST BE CLOUDY WHEN SHAKEN, NOT CLEAR. Do not consume any vinegar that is clear it is useless for health. Cloudiness is bacteria in UNFILTERED vinegar that is good for you. Always shake it, and when cloudy, pour for use. In the US, Fleischmann's makes a line of unfiltered vinegars, or use Farmers Markets, or Bragg brand, or Trader Joe's brand. This helps with arthritis joint pain in all living things.
2. Arthritis could be the result of poor digestion. What will also help animals (don't know much about horses, but works for dogs and cats) is the use of probiotics, and digestive enzymes. Undigested food creates toxins which end up as joint pain and inflammation.
3. MSM crystals in food. MSM is sulfur mineral. Add crystals to food, and it reduces inflammation and joint pain drastically. Also improves nails, hair, skin, and fights fungus.
4. DMSO topically. This is also sulfur. Use the 99.9% gel form on Amazon. Its a white jar with blue letters, not the green or red colored labels. MAKE SURE SKIN IS CLEAN AND NO TOXINS OR CHEMICALS ARE ON SKIN!!! DMSO (Dimethylsulfoxide) goes through skin barrier immediately and delivers oxygen, reduces pain and inflammation drastically. DMSO GOES THROUGH SKIN BARRIER SO ANY CHEMICALS LEFT ON SKIN, WILL GO THROUGH AS WELL. Do not rub down your horse with arsenic when you use DMSO, as arsenic will go through the skin and kill the horse. Other than that, DMSO is perfectly safe to use on horse, dog, human, etc. Apply with your hand or tool, but wash your hand immediately with non toxic soap right after so anything you handle does not go through your skin either. If you want to add MSM crystals to the DMSO poultice, it will help your horse even more. You can add any medications to be delivered directly to the horse joint (I am not a doctor, check with your vet) and DMSO will take it there, bypassing the gastric system.
DMSO is used on million dollar race horses joints right after races to reduce inflammation. Good stuff. The FDA in USA prefers not to regulate its use but we all know that drug companies would be out of business if DMSO were used instead. So use it, but safely. All controversy around this product stems from unsafe use.
Any idea how birch would change?
Hi I don't think Birch has a high tannin content, so I don't think it would be great....but it's worth trying to test out as I have not tried it.
So, Now what did you do with that idea?
Marvin Janes hi Marvin I was going to ebonise my Sussex Chair but then decided to leave it natural!
Question- I ebonized my swamp ash guitar to achieve a pebble look/color, I love it, however when I try to finish it with tru oil I loose my color and it just looks like wet wood. I need a finish that does not discolour the wood.....any thoughts? If I place a wet finger on the wood I loose the light gray color ....please help.
idealmethod Hi I am a bit puzzled by that ....usually the ebonising is permanent.......is there a bleaching agent in the oil? Sorry I am puzzled - hopefully someone here can help you.
how to apply a protective coat onto wood without changing the color of the wood. my ebonizing is permanent however when you apply an oil onto it it goes darker! how do i maintain the color.
how would a wood that went through this process behave outside in wind, raid and sun? I want to dress part of my house with a black colored wood planks for design purposes, but I do not want to have to treat it every few years. What would be a better alternative for my use?
+Daniel Condurachi It should stand up well, but best try on a scrap first if possible.
+Harry Rogers I seen another video where they added boiled linseed oil after the vinegar was done working to stabilize the solution and help it penetrate into the wood better.
sir save yourself time ,use steel wool, let it set at least 24 hours, white vinegar and apple cider give two slightly different color variations, if you let the mix stay for long periods of time the liquid will actually turn to rust water. don't waste it,this will give the wood a very different color, experiment, also take white vinegar hydrogen peroxide and warm it then add a hand full of pennies to get a lite green stain works instantly.
very nice advices. Everything you said here i can confirm!
After ebonising, can it be gloss polished?
+Mayank Swank Yes and then it will look like ebony!
Vinegaroon. same process works with leather
Ohio Treasure Hunter Thanks
I used it to make a veg tan knife sheath turn BLACK, worked a treat. But today I used the same mixture (which was stood in a cupboard under the sink for like 6 months but it didnt turn my oak drum shell black, more like a pale blue slate sort of colour. I think the mixture needs to be fresh. I done pine a while ago and it went black too but painted strong tea on the wood before the vinegar/iron mix. Its good that ypu still see the figure of the wood even though its dense black (usually) The best result was on a chestnut plate, the black combined with the tool marks was very nice
lovely accent
Even better, you can get extracted tannin from a high tannin species (like red oak,explaining why your red oak turned black) and dissolve the tannin in solvent and apply to a low tannin wood (like pine or even pressboard). The key is to find a solvent that can dissolve the tannin and penetrate the wood. Different solvents will give different results.
I used both white and apple cider vinegar for making vinegar water. My first batch used some rusty nails/screws that I had in an old rusty metal coffee can. The second batch I used #00 steel wool. The steel wool completely dissolves into the vinegar giving a superior result. I will have to repeat my procedure and post the results as I was able to get pine pretty dark.
Sounds very good thanks.
What would this solution due to raw leather?
I don't know ...perhaps give it a try!
Harry Rogers by the way- thank you for sharing. I enjoy your films and I am thus inspired to dabble in crafting leather.
Thanks Jason.
Used on leather this would be called Vinegaroon dye. It actually changes the composition of the leather and the colour can't be worn off as it completely penetrates
Absolutely! I will be carrying out a few different test pieces anyway, so I will attempt to add tannin for one of the test runs and see how it looks! I've found an article on extracting tannin which demonstrates it in 4 easy steps!
ehow.com/how_12001502_extract-oak-tannins.html
Thanks alot for the heads up, ill check it out! Scott
As long as they got paid their hourly rate, they probably wouldn't care.