Hi Alistair and Rory, as a UK student currently studying at Princeton, I would love to hear your opinions on the student protests and encampments going on around the US right now. Keep up the good work, an avid listener and Politics major.
"What are you protesting for?" "Ummm Palestine!" "But why here? At NYU?" "Uhhh I dunno to be honest, why are we here?" "Palestine?" "No but why here at NYU? I dont know!"
Hi Alistair and Rory, enjoying your channel a lot. Being an ex-military man it is devastating to hear and see the current state of our once proud services. My father (35 years service) and seven uncles all fought in WWII and served in different arms of the Military, would be spinning in their graves at the current state of our forces. How, politicians can deceive themselves, and us, that everything is fine is beyond belief. Basically, our military now is not fit for purpose, in terms of a large scale war, and hasn't been for quite a while. Thank you for pointing this out towards the end and it is shameful that, as a country, we can barely deploy an effective armoured brigade. Furthermore, I feel even our RAF cannot effectively defend our skies over the whole of the UK.
"not fit for purpose" aka not fit for imperialism. They're perfectly suited to be an island defence force should we be attacked but thats unpatriotic of course, attacking other nations is a great British past time
Whenever I see a new video/podcast from The Rest is Politics, I immediately click on it without thinking twice. I only discovered this podcast a few months ago and I'm hooked! Thank you Alistair and Rory for making this program worth listening to! You truly make these discussions interesting. Keep it up!
Subscriber from Texas- thanks, as always, for providing British viewpoints regarding our geopolitical world. I catch every RUclips video, & always gain perspective from the analysis you 2 & your guests provide. I also gain a lot through perusing the comments section. Certainly composed of a variety of viewpoints, usually worthy of some thoughtful reflection.
Theodore Roosevelt, “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.” The West needs a strong military. Spending must increase. Hopefully, the threat of use would deter any nation from attacking and or threatening the West. Soft power is my preference but those who wish us harm need to know we have the force to protect ourselves and if necessary take the offensive.
When has a nation ever directly attacked the British Isles, France, Germany, the USA yet we were quite happy to attack any nation (especially if they had no modern military aircraft...) on rather dubious evidence. Now we import "those who wish us harm" from those same countries in large numbers, blindly accepting their claim that they are all fleeing persecution but will defend Ukraine to their last man......
Spouses of politicians are not a tricky topic. Spouses should avoid the possibility of the appearance of any impropriety. If this is an issue then the politician should never have become a politician. No one *has* to be a politician.
We do have so many MPs from pretty much all the parties who are more concerned with self-publicity than the sensible government of this country. The problem we have now, after 14 years of Conservative rule, is where do you start to try and re-arm while at the same time repair the untold damage done to health and social care provision and the rest of our infrastructure.
@@buzzukfiftythree As a Brit living overseas, I agree with you + I see poor infrastructure vs say France - look at French roads, trains et al. The bigger problem is the UK's inability to pay for it al and the UK's lack of an industrial strategy to generate wealth on which additional tax revenue can be generated.
I think the Westminster system is set up to reward short termist thinking. If you got into office and knew that, barring major catastrophe, you were the defense minister for the next decade, you'll probably take your job pretty seriously. Instead, most ministers are lucky to make it to 2 years. Where is the incentive to actually take your position seriously, when next time the PM sneezes you're probably off the job
The anger and frustration I feel when I hear when hearing about how our military is run and funded, plus how our personal are treated. This subject is so important as are our service personnel. However, I'm glad this situation is being called out.
its hard to know which was the worst betrayal of the forces - Blair's labour sending troops into Iraq without body armour, ammunition & basic supplies; or Cameron's tories sacking troops whilst in Afghanistan, to avoid paying full pensions, by specifically timing their dismissal. Both parties wasted billions on the 2 aircraft carriers & trident renewal; both of which can never be deployed - meanwhile forces numbers have been decimated, recruiting targets repeatedly missed & procurement is a disaster - regardless of governing party
My parents were Polish. WW2 was a horrendous experience for Poland as it was for any country that was invaded and occupied. The reason that Poland has increased its spending by so much is that it has clearly vowed 'Never again'. Any country whose borders adjoin Russia must be feeling the same way. And clearly if Poland falls we are all next.
I think the issue we have is that we are effectively an entire generation distant from any real threat of invasion. Iraq and the Taliban were never that kind of threat. Younger generations (of which I am, I think) have never really faced the threat of a real, full and total war.
Should invite Mike Martin on to discuss defence, NATO and Ukraine issues! He is also running to become a Lib Dem MP for Tunbridge Wells at the next election
In fairness to Prime Minister Sunak, maybe he was thinking that the next 5 years of conservative rule the GDP of the country would fall enough to have military spending 2.5 of GDP.
I think Rory would have made a good PM . I wasn't sure about him , but having watched your podcasts . He is a decent human being. We missed a trick . I am more left leaning, but I think Rory could ( a capital C .Could ) win my vote
There is an irony that the Aircraft carriers themselves are probably one of the few procurement relative success stories for the UK armed forces. The two ships together cost £7.6bn, which is less than a single new US Ford class carrier (and the US is building 10). They basically are just large enough to take the place of a US carrier in a NATO taskforce (an assessment the Americans agree with and which is not true of the French or any other carrier), without any superfluous expensive bells and whistles (missles, nuclear power etc.). They were built in a reasonable timeframe (given their planned 50 year service life) and while the cost was higher than projected it was negotiated that BAE covered half of this (which is much higher than usual for defence contracts). Crucially, they were designed with as much automation as practical to reduce the crew requirements, such that they typically have a complement of around 1000-1200, which is similar to the previous much smaller and less capable Invincible class carriers, and far far less than the over 4000 on a US carrier. So in theory the running costs are as low as they reasonably can be for what they are. So you can argue about whether we need them, but I'd also be asking why what worked with the procurement in this case hasn't been successfully replicated across the armed forces since. What's really unfortunate is that the narrative around the carriers has been affected far more by delays in the US led F35 programme and our ability to procure said aircraft (which is partly due to the change in the collapse in the exchange rate *cough* Brexit *cough*). I agree with Rory that a focus on personel, training etc over getting shiny new kit is important, however I'd also note that the UK has a terrible habit of not buying new stuff, and the spending a fortune keeping the old stuff going beyond its intended service life. With the Navy you can see this, as in an attempt to save money in the short term the Government has put off replacing the type 23 frigates as long as possible, with the result of fewer and fewer being in a condition to go to sea, and expensive life-extension programmes effectively eating up any saving made by delaying the replacement. The decision not to replace the challenger 2 tanks but instead "upgrade" them to the new Challenger 3 option smells very similar, in that it'll likely cost a fortune, and leave us with a force of tanks relying on parts that are 30 years old (and most people wouldn't keep a car that long).
Served in the armed forces for over 30 years. What precisely is the physical threat to the UK? Why do we need a large expeditionary capability? An anti-submarine warfare, mine warfare and strong air defence capabilities is what we need.
Regarding our military. As a starting point we have to realize who we are in relation to the rest of the world. Of course we should evaluate our defense policy and take into consideration our responsibilities to allies. If we consider options and likely actions it seems obvious that we act with others due to our under invested and depleted forces. In this case we should see what role we can play in concert with others and work toward that. It would seem that our special forces are regarded highly perhaps that would be a contribution that others with different resources would be interested in partnering with us. As with most things currently in this country we need a reality check as to who and what we are.
We are a top echelon economic, military and cultural power whose woeful under-investment and disgraceful stripping of our defence capability is not becoming of the leading Western European nation. We are not living up to our global responsibilities and for the sake of saving a few pennies now we are paying the real price on the global stage today.
Exactly, most NATO members (excluding the US) focus their attention on a narrow set of capabilities which contribute to the overall NATO defensive strategy. We could do the same, playing to our strengths (special forces, intelligence) or the areas where we naturally fit (the Navy, since geography means it's more important for us than any other NATO member - plus we've just bought two brand new aircraft carriers, a naval nuclear deterrent, need to be able to reach remote colonies, and the Navy also allows you to dabble in other areas because of marines and naval aviation). We could turn ourselves into a naval superpower again, even with aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, plus limited adjacent capabilities and very strong special forces - that would give us a clear role in NATO which no other member can fill - instead of trying to do everything all at once.
I find it so tragic that we're spending trillions on fighting while we struggle to reach $100bn per year of climate finance, or the $300bn estimated need to end malnutrition and fix our food systems.
Of course not! This patriot battery is for defending Britain, this aircraft carrier is for defending British forces keeping the peace in other countries, and this cruise missile is for defending infantrymen from guerrillas as they move to establish a new defensive line in a circle around the enemy capital. See, all defence.
8:40 RORY! to maintain your 🏴 street cred ⁉️ - those hills in S. Perthshire are the Ochils (prounced O as in boat not O as in bot) - you'll get a 'sasanach prat' eye roll 🙄 from the locals if you persist with this. - I grew up within sight of these - have waked them with many locals & have never heard this pronunciation - including from Ochils Mountain Rescue 🤯 ⁉️ - love you as an Anglophile Scot but have to draw a line on some things 😬😉😁
Listening to the section around defection, I'd love to know what the full story was with regards Change UK. I still don't think we've heard the full story. I know there has been some discussion around how Tom Watson stepped in to stop further defections. I believe he made a pitch to MPs who defined themselves as social Democrats. I've always had the sense with Change UK that there was a pivotal 24/48 hours where a plan just evaporated before their eyes.
The state of the UK defences are lamentable. The first duty of a government is the protection of the people. The Tory government should be publicly pilloried for the dereliction of this duty.
its hard to know which was the worst betrayal of the forces - Blair's labour sending troops into Iraq without body armour, ammunition & basic supplies; or Cameron's tories sacking troops whilst in Afghanistan, to avoid paying full pensions, by specifically timing their dismissal. Both parties wasted billions on the 2 aircraft carriers & trident renewal; both of which can never be deployed - meanwhile forces numbers have been decimated, recruiting targets repeatedly missed & procurement is a disaster - regardless of governing party
This is all none sense until someone stops the drain of cash out of the country. The problem is that it is the same people who have the choice of taking the money or spending it on the country. What is the motivation for anything to change when you have a shelter in Bahamas under the protection of the U.S. army when push comes to shove?
Watching the results from the English local elections roll in, whilst the decimation of the Conservative vote must almost be an all time low, one thing sticks me. The gain by Labour is less than half the Tory loss, whilst the Lib Dem (who would normally expect to benefit from local/mid-term elections) have hardly benefited with only a few seats picked up here and there. The main beneficiary (other than labour) appears to be for Independent candidates. Is this a sign of voter dissatisfaction with the main stream political parties, whom they perceive as "they're just all the same" and what is the significance for a General Election ? Will voters, who are happy to lodge a 'protest vote' at local or mid-term elections return to their traditional bias at the GE or will small parties such as the greens/RU hope to pickup seats in a divided parliement?
This should be an oportunity for everbody who supports PR to learn how dificult coalitions are. This is why most coalitions in europe dont finish their whole term...
Except that the only coalition in Westminster since WW2 was also the most stable government for 20 years... You show me Hamza Yusuf as an example of PR, I'll show you Liz Truss as an example of FPTP.
@@phueal Because Cameron expected to lose 2015 election. If they expect victory it is in their self interes to colapse the government. You also have the first 3 party coalition in germany right now - and the only thing that holds them together is the fact their support is crashing in polls
A bit late I know, but listening to your discussion about Pedro Sanchez and his wife I would like to point out that the accusations made by the far right think tank were that she had gotten some government contracts without due process. All the evidence they provided were newspaper articles, and they turned out to be about another woman of the same name who had nothing to do with Sanchez or his wife. Spain is pretty polarized, and most judges tend to be on the right of the political spectrum and some do act motivated by politics. In this case, there was no evidence at all to open an investigation into Sanchez’s wife. I think this goes some way to explain Sanchez’s anger and reaction.
Several call outs: What is with Goverment procurement it so incompetent. The biggest is the NHS and the MOD. I never forget the NHS IT pet project which was basically a secured hotmail (2002). MoD the list is too long from Clansman, Bowman, Morpheus…humble SA80 which was completely remodelled byH&k…Ajax a perfectly off the shelf which had to be re-engineered because the British army new better. To systems which the function is just to move stuff from a warehouse, put it on plane to a remote location. I like the call out that Rory did on the DGA. I think the problem is cultural. In France an Engineer is well respected. In the UK not. France does have its own issue but seems to have sensible head such buying off the shelf H&K 416 and investing where it matters. The Rafale seem to have comme into its own but has taken a long time. Be useful to Alastair talk with Xavier Tyleman a youtuber but also a TV French commentator. His interest are in Ukraine, French Armament and armed Forces. Having done Military service, not a fan. To do it seriously you need to do a minimum of two years. However the comments of chief of staff of the army is different. It more about citizens doing base training and then throughout their career do refreshers or move around not necessarily doing military. He also talk about people moving and out doing stints. A variation on Switzerland’s Militia.
The US spend should be classed as an Offence budget. That a country with no territorial concerns whatsoever outspends every other country under the guise of “defence” is laughable. It’s like the English referring to a civil war as the “troubles”.
Again, Europe needs to get it's act together. Become a united federation that exists to protect freedom and democracy in mainland Europe. A bastion of hope and rich culture for the world. Yes to the French Nuclear umbrella, yes to German Economic management - become one proper nation that can stand up to Russia on it's own without the US. With the UK out of the way, make English the language of business and society, the same way Singapore does yet maintains various mother tongue languages too. Get over the insanity of little nations determined to be different on the basis of pride that's only led to trouble in the past, instead of realising that ultimately Europeans are one people on the world stage.
Quite easy to get defence spending. Just get the nation-state paradigm threatened.... like the recent Paris riots. We all know city-states would be better administrated than nation-states... because of the dictum: "there is a indirect correlation between the amount of burocratic spending and the distance from a large city". Making war has the advantage for politicians to legitimately recentralise power.
Having lived in Australia, Morrison like the UK Tory’s was past his sell by date.He had himself to blame,he was a Show Pony and loved showing off whenever there was a news camera around.So whenever he made a political gaff he was at the centre of attention.Suffice to say he only stayed in power for one 3yr term because at the end of that term he was very,very unpopular.Its a thing that the UK could look at and change from 5yr to 3yrs.One thing is for sure is that the terrible Tory would of gone 2yrs ago.
It's a shame labour didn't do something about the British electoral system while they were sorting out Scotland. Electoral reform was even in your 97 manifesto!
I think when talking about the Scottish parliament, the biggest thing to mention when you’re saying “X party didn’t have an overall majority” is that the entire parliament is set-up to essentially avoid majorities and force parties to work together. The SNP led majority government of 2011 is very much the exception rather than the rule. Obviously this system is supportive of minority parties to get more fair representation, and in fact provide opportunities to truly effect government policy (as seen in the SNP/Green agreement). The problems however arise when parties which are overly large (as the SNP are) are paired with parties which hold “extreme” views in the eyes of some (ie the Greens). This naturally fractures the larger party and creates divide, which opposition such as Labour, Tories and LDs can then use as wedge issues. Politics eh. May you live in interesting times, may you be recognised by powerful people, and may you get what you wish for. For Humza we are now on the final “curse” / blessing and with what appears to be by polling another 40+ SNP group being led to Westminster once more after the impending election, we will once more enter interesting times for the next leader who will be challenged with re-uniting a slightly fractured party. It would be fair to suggest the next big election for Scotland as a nation isn’t the UK General Election of 2024, but the Scottish Parliament election of 2026 (or sooner?).
I think Humza is just naive, and probably a bit spoiled. So, he acted petulantly. But I wonder if Flynn set him up? The party needs to be rebuilt after all the SNP turmoil, and probably in opposition. Without Humza…?
You can talk about fixing the military AFTER the NHS, homelessness and uk malnutrition have been sorted. The UK is not in any danger of having Russian tanks at Dover. None. There is no danger. Neither should we allow ourselves to be dragged into other conflicts as a US proxy state. Remember the US have not given the UK a free trade deal, even though we have been loyal in their illegal wars. Mr Campbell.
UK has cut military spending from 10% of GDP in 1950 to 2% in 2020. Spending on the NHS increased by more than 8% in the same period, so we HAVE been using military reductions to fund the NHS.
@@andrewmcewan8081 you want to fight? Go ahead, Ukraine is short of soldiers apparently Andrew. Once you find out the reality of actual war, please do report back. Thanks.
I like Hamza, but he’s been incredibly naive on the issue of the SNP/Green Party coalition. I just hope Kate Forbes doesn’t become the First Minister. Her views on gay marriage alone should disqualify her from leading the SNP, never mind be the 1st Minister.
The defence of this country is a bloody disgrace. So many examples of stupidity. RAF retire C130 years ahead of time, 40 typhoons gone etc etc. Army spent all its money on a bloody stupid armoured personnel carrier and in the meantime gets rid of the one it has. Not enough tanks and scap yards full of good vehicles, some with less than 50 miles on them. Not enough soldiers to half fill Wembley stadium... And do not even start me on the Navy... Oh and the RAF has Three yep Three maritime patrol aircraft.. It makes one cry.. !
If Scotland was a Switzerland, it would have the economic strength to go it alone. It is not a Switzerland and talking about independence ignores the economic realities of life. It would make Liz Truss look like a star by comparison!
What's with the pens, Rory? so far you've fiddled with a red pen, a green pen, z black pen, a blue pen and a slimmer red pen - are you on commission from a manufacturer?
It wasn't just the climate-the CassReport recommendations came into it too. It looked like the SNP were going to try to move towards them and Patrick Harvey refused to accept their validity. A lot of people think there is a degree of hypocrisy around Forbes because both Sarwar and Yousaff are practising Muslims and their religious beliefs were not interrogated.
Just want to check that you're both okay of yourselves; I've noticed a slightly more sombre mood creeping in lately (though I warrant that it may just be the times we live in).
No money for the NHS, decent wages, schools, benefits, the disabled, the elderly or the poor. 16bn for "defence" the kind of defence where we go abroad and attack other countries, yeah, that kind of "defence" No problem, here's all the money you want..
Great news another SNP leader falls. They really do seem to find some god awful characters to lead them. Wonder who will rock up next…. Can’t be much worse than the last 3!
kate forbes has some severe calvinist views that would loose too many votes on top of her problems with the greens . salmond doesn't really know what anyone under 40 thinks on anything .
I do wish you would both get off your hobby-horse about the Carriers - and Rory, for your benefit, the Navy , unless you expect them to fight in canoes - always needs 'big-kit - your average Frigate these days runs at 6000 tonnes'. The argument about the carriers is not that we should have them, but that in purchasing them, we should have built the escort fleet/aircraft/pilots et al to make them worthwhile. Incidentally Rory's comment about them being "vulnerable targets" is clearly at odds with the views of multiple navies around the globe who have either invested in carriers or want to..? Presumably they are all wrong and you are right?? On a broader point, our spending desperately needs reviewing and upping towards 3, even 4-5% although very much linked to the issues of procurement being addressed alongside it - lets have 'value-for-money' as an essential pubic spending principle; the Ajax project overruns etc should be a national scandal but in a nation that obsesses with anything but defense, nobody says anything and the military-industrial complex gets away with yet more waste for no product in return. The same with the Type 26 frigates - world-beaters apparently, the first HMS Glasgow went into the water November 2022... in-service date?? 2028!!? So NUTS it's almost funny when you think the Chinese PLAN are producing multiple escort vessels every YEAR! It all needs sorting but I have no confidence it ever will. Good podcast as ever but please, on this topic, educate yourselves so you better educate your listeners...
Sorry, Alistair, but there is a bit of an uncomfortable elephant in the room when the topics of dishonesty and the armed forces are brought up by you of all people.
@@xamp-uh1gv Isn't serious diplomacy much smarter and cheaper? 🤔 India should be focusing on infra-structure, healthcare, climate change, education, etc. Following the American model is wrong because of India's unique geography, since it's very much attached to the rest of Asia.
Why do you take China's numbers when it comes to tanks as gospel, yet admit the UK lies about the number we have? Seems to be some pretty bizarre logic holes in the discussions you have on this podcast.
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Hi Alistair and Rory, as a UK student currently studying at Princeton, I would love to hear your opinions on the student protests and encampments going on around the US right now. Keep up the good work, an avid listener and Politics major.
The amount of people who shut down speech they don’t like is disgraceful.
We must support Israel 100%. We cannot go back to the anti-semitism of the Corbyn era or worse.
The amount of people i.e. very few who can shut down a whole university is disgraceful
@@Fatsimbacat Agreed, the police reaction is disgraceful.
"What are you protesting for?"
"Ummm Palestine!"
"But why here? At NYU?"
"Uhhh I dunno to be honest, why are we here?"
"Palestine?"
"No but why here at NYU? I dont know!"
Hi Alistair and Rory, enjoying your channel a lot. Being an ex-military man it is devastating to hear and see the current state of our once proud services. My father (35 years service) and seven uncles all fought in WWII and served in different arms of the Military, would be spinning in their graves at the current state of our forces. How, politicians can deceive themselves, and us, that everything is fine is beyond belief. Basically, our military now is not fit for purpose, in terms of a large scale war, and hasn't been for quite a while. Thank you for pointing this out towards the end and it is shameful that, as a country, we can barely deploy an effective armoured brigade. Furthermore, I feel even our RAF cannot effectively defend our skies over the whole of the UK.
"not fit for purpose" aka not fit for imperialism.
They're perfectly suited to be an island defence force should we be attacked but thats unpatriotic of course, attacking other nations is a great British past time
@@TheWaveGoodbye-Music I agree with your basic premises but would add the lack of attention to Civil Defence is a longstanding disgrace!
@@TheWaveGoodbye-Music Defending Europe from tyranny is also another great British past time.
Whenever I see a new video/podcast from The Rest is Politics, I immediately click on it without thinking twice. I only discovered this podcast a few months ago and I'm hooked! Thank you Alistair and Rory for making this program worth listening to! You truly make these discussions interesting. Keep it up!
Subscriber from Texas- thanks, as always, for providing British viewpoints regarding our geopolitical world. I catch every RUclips video, & always gain perspective from the analysis you 2 & your guests provide. I also gain a lot through perusing the comments section. Certainly composed of a variety of viewpoints, usually worthy of some thoughtful reflection.
Theodore Roosevelt, “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
The West needs a strong military. Spending must increase. Hopefully, the threat of use would deter any nation from attacking and or threatening the West.
Soft power is my preference but those who wish us harm need to know we have the force to protect ourselves and if necessary take the offensive.
When has a nation ever directly attacked the British Isles, France, Germany, the USA yet we were quite happy to attack any nation (especially if they had no modern military aircraft...) on rather dubious evidence. Now we import "those who wish us harm" from those same countries in large numbers, blindly accepting their claim that they are all fleeing persecution but will defend Ukraine to their last man......
35:02 the real malcolm tucker, indeed 😂
Spouses of politicians are not a tricky topic. Spouses should avoid the possibility of the appearance of any impropriety. If this is an issue then the politician should never have become a politician. No one *has* to be a politician.
Hi Alistair and Rory, would you consider sharing some light on some Australian politics with regards to the whistleblower and war hero David McBride?
The weirdness around the UK military spending numbers et al surely reflects ultimately poor political oversight = Poor quality of MPs?
We do have so many MPs from pretty much all the parties who are more concerned with self-publicity than the sensible government of this country. The problem we have now, after 14 years of Conservative rule, is where do you start to try and re-arm while at the same time repair the untold damage done to health and social care provision and the rest of our infrastructure.
@@buzzukfiftythree As a Brit living overseas, I agree with you + I see poor infrastructure vs say France - look at French roads, trains et al. The bigger problem is the UK's inability to pay for it al and the UK's lack of an industrial strategy to generate wealth on which additional tax revenue can be generated.
I think the Westminster system is set up to reward short termist thinking. If you got into office and knew that, barring major catastrophe, you were the defense minister for the next decade, you'll probably take your job pretty seriously. Instead, most ministers are lucky to make it to 2 years. Where is the incentive to actually take your position seriously, when next time the PM sneezes you're probably off the job
The anger and frustration I feel when I hear when hearing about how our military is run and funded, plus how our personal are treated. This subject is so important as are our service personnel. However, I'm glad this situation is being called out.
its hard to know which was the worst betrayal of the forces - Blair's labour sending troops into Iraq without body armour, ammunition & basic supplies; or Cameron's tories sacking troops whilst in Afghanistan, to avoid paying full pensions, by specifically timing their dismissal. Both parties wasted billions on the 2 aircraft carriers & trident renewal; both of which can never be deployed - meanwhile forces numbers have been decimated, recruiting targets repeatedly missed & procurement is a disaster - regardless of governing party
My parents were Polish. WW2 was a horrendous experience for Poland as it was for any country that was invaded and occupied. The reason that Poland has increased its spending by so much is that it has clearly vowed 'Never again'. Any country whose borders adjoin Russia must be feeling the same way. And clearly if Poland falls we are all next.
I think the issue we have is that we are effectively an entire generation distant from any real threat of invasion.
Iraq and the Taliban were never that kind of threat.
Younger generations (of which I am, I think) have never really faced the threat of a real, full and total war.
Another brilliant episode. Thanks gents!
Seriously depressing conversation over defence but this is what happens when incompetent politicians and leaders are in charge of procurement etc
Should invite Mike Martin on to discuss defence, NATO and Ukraine issues! He is also running to become a Lib Dem MP for Tunbridge Wells at the next election
In fairness to Prime Minister Sunak, maybe he was thinking that the next 5 years of conservative rule the GDP of the country would fall enough to have military spending 2.5 of GDP.
I just do not understand what HY was thinking. I cannot comprehend how he thought it would play out any other way than it has. Utter kamikaze mission.
I think Rory would have made a good PM . I wasn't sure about him , but having watched your podcasts . He is a decent human being. We missed a trick . I am more left leaning, but I think Rory could ( a capital C .Could ) win my vote
There is an irony that the Aircraft carriers themselves are probably one of the few procurement relative success stories for the UK armed forces. The two ships together cost £7.6bn, which is less than a single new US Ford class carrier (and the US is building 10). They basically are just large enough to take the place of a US carrier in a NATO taskforce (an assessment the Americans agree with and which is not true of the French or any other carrier), without any superfluous expensive bells and whistles (missles, nuclear power etc.). They were built in a reasonable timeframe (given their planned 50 year service life) and while the cost was higher than projected it was negotiated that BAE covered half of this (which is much higher than usual for defence contracts).
Crucially, they were designed with as much automation as practical to reduce the crew requirements, such that they typically have a complement of around 1000-1200, which is similar to the previous much smaller and less capable Invincible class carriers, and far far less than the over 4000 on a US carrier. So in theory the running costs are as low as they reasonably can be for what they are.
So you can argue about whether we need them, but I'd also be asking why what worked with the procurement in this case hasn't been successfully replicated across the armed forces since. What's really unfortunate is that the narrative around the carriers has been affected far more by delays in the US led F35 programme and our ability to procure said aircraft (which is partly due to the change in the collapse in the exchange rate *cough* Brexit *cough*).
I agree with Rory that a focus on personel, training etc over getting shiny new kit is important, however I'd also note that the UK has a terrible habit of not buying new stuff, and the spending a fortune keeping the old stuff going beyond its intended service life. With the Navy you can see this, as in an attempt to save money in the short term the Government has put off replacing the type 23 frigates as long as possible, with the result of fewer and fewer being in a condition to go to sea, and expensive life-extension programmes effectively eating up any saving made by delaying the replacement. The decision not to replace the challenger 2 tanks but instead "upgrade" them to the new Challenger 3 option smells very similar, in that it'll likely cost a fortune, and leave us with a force of tanks relying on parts that are 30 years old (and most people wouldn't keep a car that long).
Cracking podcast as always
Served in the armed forces for over 30 years. What precisely is the physical threat to the UK? Why do we need a large expeditionary capability? An anti-submarine warfare, mine warfare and strong air defence capabilities is what we need.
Overseas territories and defence pacts with other nations i should think.
Regarding our military. As a starting point we have to realize who we are in relation to the rest of the world. Of course we should evaluate our defense policy and take into consideration our responsibilities to allies. If we consider options and likely actions it seems obvious that we act with others due to our under invested and depleted forces. In this case we should see what role we can play in concert with others and work toward that. It would seem that our special forces are regarded highly perhaps that would be a contribution that others with different resources would be interested in partnering with us. As with most things currently in this country we need a reality check as to who and what we are.
We are a top echelon economic, military and cultural power whose woeful under-investment and disgraceful stripping of our defence capability is not becoming of the leading Western European nation. We are not living up to our global responsibilities and for the sake of saving a few pennies now we are paying the real price on the global stage today.
Exactly, most NATO members (excluding the US) focus their attention on a narrow set of capabilities which contribute to the overall NATO defensive strategy. We could do the same, playing to our strengths (special forces, intelligence) or the areas where we naturally fit (the Navy, since geography means it's more important for us than any other NATO member - plus we've just bought two brand new aircraft carriers, a naval nuclear deterrent, need to be able to reach remote colonies, and the Navy also allows you to dabble in other areas because of marines and naval aviation). We could turn ourselves into a naval superpower again, even with aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, plus limited adjacent capabilities and very strong special forces - that would give us a clear role in NATO which no other member can fill - instead of trying to do everything all at once.
I find it so tragic that we're spending trillions on fighting while we struggle to reach $100bn per year of climate finance, or the $300bn estimated need to end malnutrition and fix our food systems.
I fear we’re heading towards global conflict again. Depressing puts it mildly.
The biggest issue I have with the greens is that I really care about the environment.
it's quite fascinating to see what parochial and personal things compell the interest of these professional political observers
Any chance of you getting the chief of the defence staff (probably retired) on?
I thought this WAS a ‘masterclass in political strategy’, Rory! 😄
It cannot all be ‘Defence’ spending, that would be madness, surely someone is spending on ‘Offence’
Of course not! This patriot battery is for defending Britain, this aircraft carrier is for defending British forces keeping the peace in other countries, and this cruise missile is for defending infantrymen from guerrillas as they move to establish a new defensive line in a circle around the enemy capital. See, all defence.
That's like saying "Surely nations can't ALL develop nukes for retaliatory strikes - surely someone wants to strike first"
8:40 RORY! to maintain your 🏴 street cred ⁉️
- those hills in S. Perthshire are the Ochils
(prounced O as in boat not O as in bot)
- you'll get a 'sasanach prat' eye roll 🙄 from the locals if you persist with this.
- I grew up within sight of these - have waked them with many locals & have never heard this pronunciation - including from Ochils Mountain Rescue 🤯 ⁉️
- love you as an Anglophile Scot but have to draw a line on some things 😬😉😁
Haha! Ethics in Spain are not viewed with the same importance that you attach to them.
More information, plz?
It sounds like the military procurement in the UK is even worse than the German military procurement. I didn't think this would be possible
Listening to the section around defection, I'd love to know what the full story was with regards Change UK. I still don't think we've heard the full story. I know there has been some discussion around how Tom Watson stepped in to stop further defections. I believe he made a pitch to MPs who defined themselves as social Democrats. I've always had the sense with Change UK that there was a pivotal 24/48 hours where a plan just evaporated before their eyes.
Awesome.
The state of the UK defences are lamentable. The first duty of a government is the protection of the people. The Tory government should be publicly pilloried for the dereliction of this duty.
Talking about UK military dishonesty: what's happening with northern Ireland?
Defence spending needs to be more than 2.5% of GDP it should be about 5% at least !!!!!!!!!
its hard to know which was the worst betrayal of the forces - Blair's labour sending troops into Iraq without body armour, ammunition & basic supplies; or Cameron's tories sacking troops whilst in Afghanistan, to avoid paying full pensions, by specifically timing their dismissal. Both parties wasted billions on the 2 aircraft carriers & trident renewal; both of which can never be deployed - meanwhile forces numbers have been decimated, recruiting targets repeatedly missed & procurement is a disaster - regardless of governing party
Yousaf proved himself to be inadequate on this very podcast a few months ago. He was always overpromoted.
Ash Regan was always Alba and having her strings pulled by Salmond. None of us were remotely surprised when she she defected to alba
The issue here is that the UK has a delusion about its role in the world.
This is all none sense until someone stops the drain of cash out of the country. The problem is that it is the same people who have the choice of taking the money or spending it on the country.
What is the motivation for anything to change when you have a shelter in Bahamas under the protection of the U.S. army when push comes to shove?
Watching the results from the English local elections roll in, whilst the decimation of the Conservative vote must almost be an all time low, one thing sticks me. The gain by Labour is less than half the Tory loss, whilst the Lib Dem (who would normally expect to benefit from local/mid-term elections) have hardly benefited with only a few seats picked up here and there. The main beneficiary (other than labour) appears to be for Independent candidates. Is this a sign of voter dissatisfaction with the main stream political parties, whom they perceive as "they're just all the same" and what is the significance for a General Election ? Will voters, who are happy to lodge a 'protest vote' at local or mid-term elections return to their traditional bias at the GE or will small parties such as the greens/RU hope to pickup seats in a divided parliement?
if your telling me that the world is arming up, gives weight to "wars happen when politicians fail"
Procurement in the British Army isn't a huge problem for the arms industry...
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This should be an oportunity for everbody who supports PR to learn how dificult coalitions are. This is why most coalitions in europe dont finish their whole term...
Except that the only coalition in Westminster since WW2 was also the most stable government for 20 years... You show me Hamza Yusuf as an example of PR, I'll show you Liz Truss as an example of FPTP.
@@phueal Because Cameron expected to lose 2015 election. If they expect victory it is in their self interes to colapse the government. You also have the first 3 party coalition in germany right now - and the only thing that holds them together is the fact their support is crashing in polls
A bit late I know, but listening to your discussion about Pedro Sanchez and his wife I would like to point out that the accusations made by the far right think tank were that she had gotten some government contracts without due process. All the evidence they provided were newspaper articles, and they turned out to be about another woman of the same name who had nothing to do with Sanchez or his wife. Spain is pretty polarized, and most judges tend to be on the right of the political spectrum and some do act motivated by politics. In this case, there was no evidence at all to open an investigation into Sanchez’s wife. I think this goes some way to explain Sanchez’s anger and reaction.
Could we get a leading ep with Count Binface or Raving Looney Monster Party?
It would be interesting to know the source of your figures
Wanted this man for P.M
Several call outs:
What is with Goverment procurement it so incompetent. The biggest is the NHS and the MOD. I never forget the NHS IT pet project which was basically a secured hotmail (2002). MoD the list is too long from Clansman, Bowman, Morpheus…humble SA80 which was completely remodelled byH&k…Ajax a perfectly off the shelf which had to be re-engineered because the British army new better. To systems which the function is just to move stuff from a warehouse, put it on plane to a remote location.
I like the call out that Rory did on the DGA. I think the problem is cultural. In France an Engineer is well respected. In the UK not. France does have its own issue but seems to have sensible head such buying off the shelf H&K 416 and investing where it matters. The Rafale seem to have comme into its own but has taken a long time. Be useful to Alastair talk with Xavier Tyleman a youtuber but also a TV French commentator. His interest are in Ukraine, French Armament and armed Forces.
Having done Military service, not a fan. To do it seriously you need to do a minimum of two years. However the comments of chief of staff of the army is different. It more about citizens doing base training and then throughout their career do refreshers or move around not necessarily doing military. He also talk about people moving and out doing stints. A variation on Switzerland’s Militia.
Am I going mad, or what?
Wasn't the 'Beaut House Agreement' with Australia?
Bute House….
Jamie Driscoll was shut out to be mayor. Hope he beats the system and gives Starmer a black eye.
We are in a similar state to the US; the choices are all substandard, and in these trying times anything on offer is an economic disaster.
How is that similar to the US? Their economy is booming, and when asked to make choices in defence they normally just answer "yes."
@@phueal War economies look good on paper but are unsustainable, historically there is massive widespread poverty in the aftermath...
@@RandomNooby well I suppose that is a similarity between us and the US: neither of us has a war economy.
@@phueal Not sure the majority of economists or military analysts would agree on that one, not many I know for sure. but fair enough.
@@RandomNooby Defence spending is at its lowest level (as a proportion of GDP) in over a century…
The US spend should be classed as an Offence budget. That a country with no territorial concerns whatsoever outspends every other country under the guise of “defence” is laughable. It’s like the English referring to a civil war as the “troubles”.
They have a lot of overseas bases to defend.
Again, Europe needs to get it's act together. Become a united federation that exists to protect freedom and democracy in mainland Europe. A bastion of hope and rich culture for the world. Yes to the French Nuclear umbrella, yes to German Economic management - become one proper nation that can stand up to Russia on it's own without the US. With the UK out of the way, make English the language of business and society, the same way Singapore does yet maintains various mother tongue languages too. Get over the insanity of little nations determined to be different on the basis of pride that's only led to trouble in the past, instead of realising that ultimately Europeans are one people on the world stage.
@@CW-bw7pv if you want to do it, do it? Sounds like Karl Pilkington 😂 “alright fellas, Karl says you can do it!”
Danat told the Bloody Sunday families to 'get over it '.
Kim McGuiness is absolutely horrific.
Quite easy to get defence spending. Just get the nation-state paradigm threatened.... like the recent Paris riots. We all know city-states would be better administrated than nation-states... because of the dictum: "there is a indirect correlation between the amount of burocratic spending and the distance from a large city". Making war has the advantage for politicians to legitimately recentralise power.
The USA spends over 1 trillion a year on defence
No. The only part of the budget over $1 trillion is health and human services (which is more than double the military budget)
Money for wars.
But they cant feed the poor.
Having lived in Australia, Morrison like the UK Tory’s was past his sell by date.He had himself to blame,he was a Show Pony and loved showing off whenever there was a news camera around.So whenever he made a political gaff he was at the centre of attention.Suffice to say he only stayed in power for one 3yr term because at the end of that term he was very,very unpopular.Its a thing that the UK could look at and change from 5yr to 3yrs.One thing is for sure is that the terrible Tory would of gone 2yrs ago.
Schophant sidekick to a war criminal?
It's a shame labour didn't do something about the British electoral system while they were sorting out Scotland. Electoral reform was even in your 97 manifesto!
The current electoral system suits Labour, more so in fact than it does the Tories due to electoral boundaries.
@@heycidskyja4668 no one should get all the power just because they get 38% of the vote labour Tory or liberal.
Spain PM is having a temper tantrum
I think when talking about the Scottish parliament, the biggest thing to mention when you’re saying “X party didn’t have an overall majority” is that the entire parliament is set-up to essentially avoid majorities and force parties to work together. The SNP led majority government of 2011 is very much the exception rather than the rule.
Obviously this system is supportive of minority parties to get more fair representation, and in fact provide opportunities to truly effect government policy (as seen in the SNP/Green agreement). The problems however arise when parties which are overly large (as the SNP are) are paired with parties which hold “extreme” views in the eyes of some (ie the Greens). This naturally fractures the larger party and creates divide, which opposition such as Labour, Tories and LDs can then use as wedge issues. Politics eh.
May you live in interesting times, may you be recognised by powerful people, and may you get what you wish for. For Humza we are now on the final “curse” / blessing and with what appears to be by polling another 40+ SNP group being led to Westminster once more after the impending election, we will once more enter interesting times for the next leader who will be challenged with re-uniting a slightly fractured party. It would be fair to suggest the next big election for Scotland as a nation isn’t the UK General Election of 2024, but the Scottish Parliament election of 2026 (or sooner?).
Scotland has a smaller population than Yorkshire. Why are you even talking about this.
Because Scotland deserves independence. Not everyone is (thank god) anglo-centric. That's why there is so much conflict.
Because the importance of a topic or place is not decided merely by population.
I think Humza is just naive, and probably a bit spoiled. So, he acted petulantly. But I wonder if Flynn set him up? The party needs to be rebuilt after all the SNP turmoil, and probably in opposition. Without Humza…?
You can talk about fixing the military AFTER the NHS, homelessness and uk malnutrition have been sorted. The UK is not in any danger of having Russian tanks at Dover. None. There is no danger. Neither should we allow ourselves to be dragged into other conflicts as a US proxy state. Remember the US have not given the UK a free trade deal, even though we have been loyal in their illegal wars. Mr Campbell.
Russia don't even want Eastern Ukraine. Stories of conscription have been laughable
UK has cut military spending from 10% of GDP in 1950 to 2% in 2020. Spending on the NHS increased by more than 8% in the same period, so we HAVE been using military reductions to fund the NHS.
in todays world russia doesn't need to reach our soil to o usd immense harm . they all need fixed but they need done together
@@andrewmcewan8081 you want to fight? Go ahead, Ukraine is short of soldiers apparently Andrew. Once you find out the reality of actual war, please do report back. Thanks.
Alastair doesn’t quite get the big picture: to get defense spending to 2.5% of GDP, you only need lower the GDP
I like Hamza, but he’s been incredibly naive on the issue of the SNP/Green Party coalition. I just hope Kate Forbes doesn’t become the First Minister. Her views on gay marriage alone should disqualify her from leading the SNP, never mind be the 1st Minister.
Hamza was a joke but for some reason we had to pretend he wasn't.
Should have defended Chechnya.
The defence of this country is a bloody disgrace. So many examples of stupidity. RAF retire C130 years ahead of time, 40 typhoons gone etc etc. Army spent all its money on a bloody stupid armoured personnel carrier and in the meantime gets rid of the one it has. Not enough tanks and scap yards full of good vehicles, some with less than 50 miles on them. Not enough soldiers to half fill Wembley stadium... And do not even start me on the Navy... Oh and the RAF has Three yep Three maritime patrol aircraft.. It makes one cry.. !
Unionists discussing Scotland and have no idea about why independence is still strong. SNP dilemma has no impact on independence desire
Independence is dead. I know that's a painful realisation for your ilk, but it's just not going to happen.
If Scotland was a Switzerland, it would have the economic strength to go it alone. It is not a Switzerland and talking about independence ignores the economic realities of life. It would make Liz Truss look like a star by comparison!
😂😂😂😂😂
Independence is dead
@@artsed08 Would you care to address the point @melvinpenman 1102 raised?
But surely it was the Stuart monarchy that desired Union ? It suited them in those days .
How much is spent on healthcare… $5 trillion?
The US alone probably spends 5 trillion on healthcare.
What's with the pens, Rory? so far you've fiddled with a red pen, a green pen, z black pen, a blue pen and a slimmer red pen - are you on commission from a manufacturer?
It wasn't just the climate-the CassReport recommendations came into it too. It looked like the SNP were going to try to move towards them and Patrick Harvey refused to accept their validity. A lot of people think there is a degree of hypocrisy around Forbes because both Sarwar and Yousaff are practising Muslims and their religious beliefs were not interrogated.
Just want to check that you're both okay of yourselves; I've noticed a slightly more sombre mood creeping in lately (though I warrant that it may just be the times we live in).
How could you have Scare-a-muchhi on your show?! If he hadn’t been fired he would still be up Tramps butt!!!!!
They don't spend anything like that amount. It's a gigantic fiddle!!
War is a racket!!
No money for the NHS, decent wages, schools, benefits, the disabled, the elderly or the poor.
16bn for "defence" the kind of defence where we go abroad and attack other countries, yeah, that kind of "defence"
No problem, here's all the money you want..
Great news another SNP leader falls. They really do seem to find some god awful characters to lead them. Wonder who will rock up next…. Can’t be much worse than the last 3!
kate forbes has some severe calvinist views that would loose too many votes on top of her problems with the greens . salmond doesn't really know what anyone under 40 thinks on anything .
Roll on Scottish independence. It's going to come eventually.
Why did Humza change his mind about Ash Regan's offer?
Because the political price and public humiliation that would have accompanied it would have been intolerable.
I do wish you would both get off your hobby-horse about the Carriers - and Rory, for your benefit, the Navy , unless you expect them to fight in canoes - always needs 'big-kit - your average Frigate these days runs at 6000 tonnes'. The argument about the carriers is not that we should have them, but that in purchasing them, we should have built the escort fleet/aircraft/pilots et al to make them worthwhile. Incidentally Rory's comment about them being "vulnerable targets" is clearly at odds with the views of multiple navies around the globe who have either invested in carriers or want to..? Presumably they are all wrong and you are right?? On a broader point, our spending desperately needs reviewing and upping towards 3, even 4-5% although very much linked to the issues of procurement being addressed alongside it - lets have 'value-for-money' as an essential pubic spending principle; the Ajax project overruns etc should be a national scandal but in a nation that obsesses with anything but defense, nobody says anything and the military-industrial complex gets away with yet more waste for no product in return. The same with the Type 26 frigates - world-beaters apparently, the first HMS Glasgow went into the water November 2022... in-service date?? 2028!!? So NUTS it's almost funny when you think the Chinese PLAN are producing multiple escort vessels every YEAR! It all needs sorting but I have no confidence it ever will. Good podcast as ever but please, on this topic, educate yourselves so you better educate your listeners...
God, these 1990's guys look so old.
Sorry, Alistair, but there is a bit of an uncomfortable elephant in the room when the topics of dishonesty and the armed forces are brought up by you of all people.
Why are you both putting your mentals at risk? Just enjoy England winning the T20 world cup & Euro24 & retire from politics.
Laughing my ass off at Alistair Campbell complaining about political dishonesty regarding the military.
Campbell, Blair, Brown, Stewart, Cameron, Sturgeon, Salmond……… The Jocks that destroyed Britain.
and boris was the yank that finished the job
So, Alastair, you don't like the BS currently coming from the Conservatives? You should see the nonsense that they send to party members...! 🥴
We should merge the 3 forces. Aircraft carrier's are bollocks.
What kind of benefit would that give to the armed forces?
India is the largest importer of arms and has the largest army (active + reserve).
And what's all that for?😋
Is it to fight China and Pakistan at the same time?
Surely, the Indian gov't isn't stark raving mad, or is it?
@@PauloAdriano-zo2ng future india has to fight a two front war at the same time
@@xamp-uh1gv
Isn't serious diplomacy much smarter and cheaper? 🤔
India should be focusing on infra-structure, healthcare, climate change, education, etc. Following the American model is wrong because of India's unique geography, since it's very much attached to the rest of Asia.
Why do you take China's numbers when it comes to tanks as gospel, yet admit the UK lies about the number we have? Seems to be some pretty bizarre logic holes in the discussions you have on this podcast.
Climate change can be inconvenient,lol, and it could get a hell of a lot worse
11:47 ditto Islam (and Catholicism, for that matter)
I like Rory…sadly tho