🤔CARMINE APPICE Claims ZEPPELIN Drummer JOHN BONHAM Copied HIS STYLE & Ludwig kit!🥁
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- Carmine Appice, renowned drummer with Vanilla Fudge and Beck, Bogert & Appice, offers a unique perspective on his friendship with John Bonham of Led Zeppelin. This exclusive interview delves into their shared experiences touring together, Appice alleges that John Bonham, Led Zeppelin's legendary drummer, heavily borrowed from his drumming style.
#ledzeppelin #johnbonham #carmineappice
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He's been saying for decades that Bonham fell in love with his kit and wanted a replica. That sounds plausible to me. Carmine had cool looking kits back in the day. But to say that Bonham mimicked him is a stretch and sounds like a lot of ego. Even if it were true, you don't say things like that. Makes you look bad.
I dont agree with Carmine on that either. Bonham had his own style but had several influences though.
Boy you said it...the title of this video should be "John Bonham copied my style, too bad I was never in a band that was half as good as Zeppelin" haha..
completely agree,moreover its sad that John Bonham is not here to answer..
@@mr.snicker-doodles7081 Vanilla Fudge was freaking huge during their time. Deep Purple members Jon Lord and Ritchie Blackmore openly admitted they were copying Vanilla Fudge...the same could be said for Uriah Heep. Zep and Vanilla Fudge toured together for a while including that infamous "shark incident."
@@osiruskat Oh I know they were massive!! I never got it..?? I think ALL of the bands that you mentioned WERE better haha. I mean sometimes that happens, right??! The bands that you inspire are better than you! I think Carmine knows too...😭😭
Carmine also taught Jimi Hendrix how to play guitar…taught Lennon/McCartney how to write songs…taught Elvis how to wiggle his hips…co-wrote Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony based on his sick beats.
🤣
What's funny is his brother. He's the most humble guy you'll ever meet. He is the polar opposite of his brother. Strange
Yes it’s true! He also invented shoes and the wheel.
LMAO!!
@@Fuxerz I like Vinnie playing better than Carmine.
Sounds like Carmine is a little envious of Bonham, Carmine doesn't even come CLOSE to Bonzo, and he knows it.
I don't think you know anything about drumming. Carmine can play anything!! Bonzo who was a great drummer couldn't play anything other than Zep stuff. LOOK at the Body of work of Carmine.
@@swind2492 that’s a bit of a stretch. He wasn’t around long enough to get the same opportunity to do more.
@@swind2492 Led Zeppelin is the best rock band of all time and Bonzo was the back bone...Enough said.
@@swind2492can you name another group that prrmsnently disbanded because they couldnt replace their drummer ? No, you cant. Thats how good he was. Ive been playing 40 years, and carmine is not in bonhams league, or even close to it.
The ran their course at the time anyway. Robert Plant wasn’t happy anyway. After the Death of his son, he completely lost interest. Bonhams death was just the icing on the cake.
Led Zeppelin called it a day because there was not another John Bonham
That's the story they tell, but the truth is that Plant was fed up with Page's drug addiction
@@markallen2984That's the story you tell, but the truth is that Page was fed up with Plant's underage groupie addiction.
They should have called Carmine! Hell Bonham copied him anyway!
@@ytr3488 that's not my story. That is what Page and Robert Plant said. The story I tell. LMFAO.
@@macadoo2530 Right LMFAO I got you
I saw Carmine in clinic. He cried most of the clinic about how Bonham copied him. Dude needs to get over it.
He is delusional
It’s just a sound bite he can use use decade after decade so people continue to see his name come up. Nothing more than that.
What a crybaby 😅😅😅
Everything Carmine says is true. What's also true is Carmine copied Dino Danelli in his early years.
Carmine also invented fire, the wheel and sliced bread.
Sour Grapes! Makes Sour Wine!!
When I first began learning drums I got Carmine's book/tape "Realistic Rock". That damn book is the most awesome piece of learning material for drums ever. Damn, I got really good really quick. Thank You, Carmine.
It’s a good one.
Just can't give Bonham the credit. Sad
Couldn't agree more, tired of hearing Carmine say Bonham did nothing but copy him. Ridiculous
@@KeithStLouis-kd5nz Ian Paice AND John Bonham did take ideas from Carmine Appice...but they did not copy him or anyone
I believe every artist takes bits and pieces from others. But a flat out Rip off…? NO way. Inspiration is a better way to say it.
@@droppinlikefliesBandAnyone that knows anything about music knows.There hasn't been any "new" music written in years.There's only so many notes and so many things to do with them.A LOT of bands sound the same or have similar styles.
It's not ripping anyone off.
It's an homage if anything to...Chopin,Tchaikovsky,etc...😊
Well the evidence is on RUclips see.
As a drummer I hear completely different styles , with one glaring difference bonhams right foot and how he seamlessly incorporated triplets into zep tunes , both were amazing but bonham didn't borrow or still anything from carmine ~
Zep and Vanilla Fudge did tour for awhile. It does seem plausible that he may have nicked a little something from touring but I did hear Ginger Baker, although he was a dick, was a huge influence on Bonham..,.Keith Moon was an influence as well.
Its possible!!! Carmine was at his best and Bonzo took notice like john also admired Ginger Baker nothing wrong with that all drummers have someone they admire.
Love the Fudge and Led Zeppelin. Both their first albums were the best.
Carmine is still one of the biggest influences to a lot of musicians. Drummers then has a lot of comradery and would support and help each other, no ego, because unless you were Buddy Rich you were not featured, not getting royalties or sponsorships. Appice was the man and still is! Now we know how Bonzo got his WFL sponsor!
Just telling the truth. He obviously loves Bonham. He knows Bonham was great, and not just a knockoff. Bonham is an original, but just like everyone he incorporated influences to create the drummer he was. Most certainly his innate qualities brought out a shine that only he possessed.
Exactly
Even Buddy Rich gravytrained off of Carmines greatness…it’s tragic
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Apparently Buddy and Carmine were friends. Carmine does come across as pompous but he actually has the chops to back it up.
It's true that Appice showed Bonham a few things,,like most musicians do. Musicians should focus on being themselves, grasping the fact that nobody else can sound like themself.
The biggest ego in rock history
I would have to humbly disagree; I would say the biggest ego goes to Yngwie Malmsteen but the guy arguably has a point.
Carmine also invented gravity, air, water and the universe.
I’m sure John Bonham was his own person. I need pictures of the matching kits.
Go check out “Shotgun” on Ed Sullivan early 1969. A lot of what Carmine alludes to you can see there including the drum set. What he says is mostly true just that he continues to exploit it in every single interview it seems like for 40 years is annoying.
Another great clip is “you keep me hanging on” I think that is 68 and he’s on a red set and just killing it. Leaning on the cymbal with his arm, blazing fast singles on the snare … that was a thing. He was a pioneer.
It's the blond maple Ludwig kit. Initially Bonham had 2 bass drums like Carmine, but Jimmy Page made him get rid of one bass drum because there was too much drumming going on 😂
Carmine is a talented drummer. But, in many of his interviews, he always tends to take way too much credit for things. I think he just wants to make sure he is remembered as well, as he should be.
The title is a little misleading. John like most of us saw & heard something he liked & made it his own.
Jeez. Jealousy is a hell of a thing to deal with huh Carmine?
I've heard him telling this story about Bonham for years. He never seems to humble with age. He can never just focus on giving Bonham props for who he was and let it go at that.
This reminds me of Ace Frehley showing Eddie Van Halen how to tap. 🏳️
This is a dead horse subject, give it up. Carmine, your my hero brother ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Vinnie is better then you Carmine ...
Carmine is responsible for so much of what is taken for granted now in rock drumming.
For starters, he is the archetype (heavy) rock drummer. Inspired by Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, Dino Dannelli of the Rascals, Billy Cobham and Bernard Purdie, he is, whether they know it or not, the root source of inspiration for every hard rock, heavy rock, metal, speed metal etc. drummer in the world today. He was so far ahead of everyone else in the pop-rock arena at that time.
What about Mitch Mitchell and Ginger Baker? They were jazz drummers playing loudly. Carmine was a rock 'n' roll drummer with a Purdie-inspired backbeat and a flair for rudimental sticking and showmanship. Don't let the Carmine image fool you - he knows his stuff.
In addition to making heavy drums (versus just loud) the happening thing back in the late 1960s (Ian Paice will confirm that), Carmine was also the one who really made double bass drums happen in rock (moreso than Keith Moon or Ginger Baker). He introduced large-sized drums, the china cymbal, the gong (all last seen decades previously), the multi-tom kit (copied from Hal Blaine's studio kit).... Deep Purple claimed their mission was to be the 'European Vanilla Fudge'. And if you want to talk about the first Prog Rock band, the Fudge would be in that running, with flashy instrumentation, soaring Hammond organ, cool arrangements, great vocals etc. King Crimson and Yes were surely listening. The ripping suffle of Van Halen's 'Hot for Teacher' can be heard over a decade earlier by Carmine on Cactus's 'Parchmen Farm'.
For those of us around at the time Carmine and Vanilla Fudge were the only band that could compare with Cream and Hendrix.
When Zeppelin arrived they were very derivative of the original Jeff Beck Group with Rod Stewart, Ronnie Wood and either Micky Waller or Tony Newman drumming. Go listen to Beck's 'Shapes of Things', a heavied up version of the hit he'd had with the Yardbirds a couple years earlier. Slowing that tune down was very much something the Fudge were doing. Ditto Purple's slowed version of the Beatles' 'Help' (the Fudge did slow versions of 'Ticket to Ride' and 'Eleanore Rigby').
The big difference between Carmine and Bonham, IMO, was that the former was more about rock power and technique, the latter about groove and swagger.
Did Bonham get his Ludwig kit thanks to Carmine? Absolutely! Did Bonham nick the triplet bass pattern from Carmine? Absolutely! Everything Carmine says is fact. He's not glory grabbing, just reiterating those facts. He will also be the first to tell us that he nicked a lot of his chops from Purdie and Cobham...then put them into a hard rock context. Listen to his hi-hat barks on 'Lady' by Beck, Bogert & Appice. That is a Purdie thing.
If you are familiar with Jeff Beck's groundbreaking rock-jazz fusion album 'Blow by Blow' you might be surprised to know that Carmine was in on the start of that, providing riffs and recording drum parts. But a falling out due to whose name would be on the album - Jeff's management insisted on 'Jeff Beck' only - led to Carmne's departure and Richard Bailey stepping in to replicated Carmine's parts (albeit with a more funky, less rock-y feel). Still, he and Jeff remained friends. Ian Paice, with whom Carmine had intended to open up a series of drum schools in the 1970s is also a long-standing friend.
Also, Carmine has been a name player since 1967, almost 60 years ago. He has worked hard to ensure that, which is what he is doing in this interview. He is the one with the real story, so listen up.
Asking to score an identical kit is hardly copying.......Bonzo 100% had his own style unlike no other.
Both are amazing drummers. Just let it go at that.
Carmine is a great drummer. Not amazing, and his SOUND is not amazing. I helped set up his shit at MI. He's not in bonhams class. Period.
Appice never heard a better drummer than John Bonham. He claimed he'd never heard anyone play drums like Bonzo.
One of the old set designers on Bruce Lee’s ‘Way of the Dragon’ apparently said Bruce Lee was so impressed with Chuck Norris’s super accurate head kicks, that he overheard Bruce Lee ask Chuck Norris where he developed the style from. Chuck told Bruce that he was taught it by Carmine Appice.
Not taking anything away from Carmine as a musician, but man, this story again? Whenever he tells it, he never says *which* track that moment came from. This time he takes credit not only for Bonzo's playing, but also the stick spin too-have a bit of humility, Carmine! If he was good friends with him, then I'd like to hear some of the lesser known stories rather than "I taught JB everything he knew, you're welcome"
"Ticket To Ride"
Carmine, Vinnie, LOVE them both!
Man, I saw Carmine play a show with Ozzy. He sounded nothing like Bonham the great. he was doing little jazz beats and was just plain soft in his style. Tommy Aldridge was a much better drummer.Ozzy fired Carmine during the tour,that's how bad he was.
He’s not saying it in a bad way and i still like him. Just a little history. Every musician takes from other musicians and makes it their own. Both Great drummers.
Appice has been jealous of Zeppelins success for decades.
Carmine, don’t you know that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery?? JHB loved you bro. Look at how many people imitate Bonzo! They really don’t know it but they ALSO love YOU. EVERYONE LOVES CARMINE.
Bonham got the idea 4 his 24 inc kick drums from carmine
Bonham’s bass drums were 26”.
Except Bonzo's were 26"
Bonham started out on a 28" bass drum, because his original kits were all put together, piecemeal like, from charity shops and old marching band equipment. He had a giant bass and snare because that was what he could buy cheaply. They were ancient, from the 1930s. Later, when he could afford new and better drums, he still missed the thunderous sound of a marching bass and snare, so he went to a 26" bass.
Carmine is by far the best drummer that has ever lived….just ask him!!!
Is Carmine a great drummer? Sure ...but he embellishes too many things to be believed
Man, I dont see Carmine as arrogant at all! As far as Carmine talking about Bonzos kit and Bonzo's drumming! It is true that he called Ludwig to help Bonzo get a kit, and he was established as a famous before Zep and Bonham were well known. Obviously, Zep and Bonham ended up bein g much bigger and badder than Fudge or just about anybody! But, Carmine abd Fudge was there before them! !Thats all! He dudnt sat anything arrogsnt ir condescending that I heard!
I saw Carmine playing as a guest with Blue Oyster Cult in May 1998. Universal Studios LA. Anyone else at that gig? BOC played two sets that day.
SERIOUSLY CARMINE PLAYS SIMULAR BUT THAT STATEMENT ABOUT JOHN BONHAM COPYING CARMINE IS RIDICULOUS
Sorry carmine. Did you do 3 hour concerts for years on end. Like everything, the old make way for the new. Lets check out your influences and see what you took from those guys.
if Zep never got big, he would never have mentioned him.. I think he knows he's near the end of life, and wants to get any glory he can. I have his book, but haven't even started it after others say he just talks about shit like this, and all the women he banged..
I think Carmine feels like he isn't getting the recognition that he definitely deserves, and that's why this stuff is coming out. He's played with so many great bands, and co-written a few great songs. Maybe he feels like he isn't as big of a household name as he should be, IDK
What does Jason Bonham say about Carmine's claim?
Jason wasn't around. Nor, obviously, were you. Everything Carmine says here is true. This information is nothing new - Carmine recounted this back in the 1970s.
Very plausible.... Zep had no problem plagiarizing other artists
Led Zeppelin was NOTORIOUS for stealing musical ideas...To their credit, they did do awesome things with them....
They no more stole than the ENTIRE rock world which stole from EVERY slave that played the blues
I mean he’s not wrong bonham
Was influenced by appice, it’s really not that outrageous of a claim
Bro, you gotta keep play Carmine, to fill the shoes of BONHAM.
NOBODY in the entire world believes anything this man is saying in this clip. He’s so jealous that he came up with this little yarn only to make a fool of himself. Sad actually.
no Carmen, John invented or developed his own style- based on the great musicians he played with- where as you with Vanilla Fudge, or Cactus, Blue Murder ect....never had song writes and arrangers like Page and Jones.... your simply out-classed by Bonham's musical terrain he thrived in...
Bonzo only played that way because of his limitations. He wouldn't be able to sit in any other band other than Zep. Carmine has played with so many different groups/bands, his style is whatever the band is playing. There is a big difference.
@@swind2492l need me some of those “limitations”…
I've never seen Bonham spin a stick why do you Musicians tear at each other I dont get that.
I watched the video of Vanilla Fudge on Ed Sullivan doing Shotgun and close to the end the drum part sounded a lot like the end of Led Zeppelin's Rock And Roll. You know, "been a long time since I rock and rolled". And yes, Carmine did twirl a drum stick. Not regularly, the way Tommy does, but just once. Tommy does it so much you would think he's a majorette.
Another washed up musician like Jack Bruce, Ginger Baker, and Pete Townsend all hating on Led Zeppelin because they are jealous. All three of these guys plus Carmine can go kick rocks.
Cream doesnt have to answer to Led Zeppelin. 😄
Brilliant jazz musos who just happened to become famous playing rock music. Baker & Bruce were bad mothers who
knew their shit
Sorry, but Bonham could eat Carmine for breakfast 😂
Carmine is a self promoter. But, He’s not saying anything out of line, it checks out. This is a clickbait title
Carmine Appice is the balls.
John Bonham is the kick in the balls. (KICK, get it?)
Its sad the only part of Carmines legacy worth remembering is the fact that Bonham heard him play a triplet by accident .What a joke.
I never liked the name vanilla fudge
Incorrect regarding style and you can go back pre Led Zep days to when JHB was with Tim Rose and all the Bonham signatures are there and the intro from one song is very similar to a later intro for Good Times Bad Times. The only thing John wanted from Carmine was Carmine’s kit, that’s true, and who wouldn’t Ludwig made great kits.
Anytime i see a poll asking "top rock drummers" #1 is ALWAYS John Bonham, and then usually #2-#4 names Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, Neil Peart, in any kind of random order, Carmine sometimes doesn't even crack the top 10, especially nowadays where the younger generation will name people like Dave Grohl, or Travis Barker in the mix, Carmine just can't let it go.
Carmine Appice...the King of Swat! Ian Paice called Carmine "my Teacher". Carmine is a legend , brilliant educator , instructor,much imitated though never duplicated and the original "THUNDER GOD!" OF DRUMMERS. Love You Carmine!
Neil Peart stole all of Carmen's licks, too.
Hey, Everyone borrows from everybody else... I'm sure Carmine liked the things Bonzo did as well and borrowed some of his ideas. What's the saying? "The highest form of praise is replication"?
Zeppelin was fans of Vanilla Fudge.
Carmine is at it again. As usual Carmine puts himself in the spotlight by claiming how all these different used to look up to him and worship him and play Carmines style. A lot of people who knew John Bonham said John never copied Carmine's style or rhythms. Carmine has said a lot of stuff that isn't true and it's more than what I can write here. Carmines drumming never changed or improved. I went to a clinic he was putting on. It was awful. He was using a new electric drum set by Simmons ( this was back in the 1980s). He didn't know how play it and he spent 95% of the clinic farting around with the electronic kick. When he did go to an acoustic drum set, He played way to loud never changing the volume. I didn't think he could play better softer. So for years I have heard these same stories and playing style.
Let's face it..... all musicians steal, copy and EXPAND on those prior to them. Some just take it to another level.
I respect both Carmine and john,but in 2024 we are still bewildered with john,s inovative style feel and technique its way ahead of eveybody,just accept it.
carmine looks like he's going to live to be 300
if it wasn't for CA saving Rock and Roll what would the music industry have done
I absolutely believe it. When I played the L.A. Club Circuit back in the early '80s you couldn't go into a guitar store without someone in their butchering "Eruption" or "Crazy Train." The development of John Bonham's style had to come from somewhere. Vanilla Fudge hit it big with "You Keep Me Hangin' On" in 1967 so as an up and coming drummer still developing his style John Bonham would have certainly been a fan of Carmine's.
The only thing he might’ve copied was the bass drum triplets. I’ve heard that John said that somewhere along the way.
Oh god, this old story....still?
Ok carmine was a great drummer but strait from Jasons mouth he said Joe Moreello was Bonhams biggest influence. Just listen to Moreello sound and you hear Bonham.
Vinnie is one of the greatest of all time with Black Sabbath and DIO!
That Dude's been changing his tune for years about Bonham. 1st he was going on about him get a kit. Then it was supposed to be triplets that he showed Bonham. Now it's supposed to be all of Bonham's style. Hey Carman get your story straight
Carmine Song 🎶 Books
With The Floppy Vinyl
45 Record
I Would Buy His Drum
Books and You Play
The Floppy 45 On
The Stereo and Read
The Drum Music 🎼
Charts
What Carmine was Teaching Me or Us
Is How to Recognize
Drum Chart Patterns
Now am in
Jr. High School
3 Years Later After
Buying All of
Carmine’s Rock Drum
Books I Auditioned for High School Concert 🎶
Band And The Music 🎼
Drum 🥁 Chart is
Chicago Am a Man
So No One Gets The Seat I Get The Drum Chart I Look 👀 and Wow I Can Read This Drum
Chart So Am Next and
The 3 Years of Reading
All Of Carmines Rock Drum Books and Playing Along To The 45 Floppy
Records I Saw 👀 a Familiar Pattern of
The Drum Music 🎼
Chart and The Music 🎶 Director Dr. Quan
He Gave Me The Tempo
And I Won The Seat
For The Drummer in
My High School Concert
Band
I Lived In a Very
Bad Neighborhood
Yet Carmine And His Drum Books Kept Me Out Of All The Gang Activity
Just on My
Block Looking 👀 Back
Carmine Saved
My Life
Thank You
Carmine
Carmine is the greatest drummer ever. Just ask him.
Talent does not always manifest in humility.
Vanilla Fudge is a cover band.
If you see VF footage from 67, he’s not necessarily wrong. CA was an innovator with that heavy/hard hitting R&B style.
Carmine is the greatest. Just ask him.
Carmine is full of it. He’s jealous that Bonham gets all the attention and so he tries to take credit for his style. He said that Bonham’s famous fast foot triplet lick was something that he copied from Carmine, and if it’s true all drummers copy other drummer’s licks including Carmine and Carmine didn’t even remember using it. That’s as far as it goes though if it’s true at all. It’s not a good look for Carmine to say things that can’t be verified because Bonham is no longer here to to give his side of it and so Carmine thinks it’s safe to control the narrative. He’s gotten a lot of backlash, so if he wants to tarnish his own legacy he’s doing a good job of that.
Carmen will always be his own biggest fan
I urge folks to check out interviews before he died.
Carmine is a grumpy old dude with way too much time on his hands .....he's just jealous that LED ZEPPELIN totally eclipsed his career .... wise up Carmie !!!! 👎👎
Carmine tells the truth. Bonham even copied Carmine’s exact mustache style
carmine COULDN'T copy BONZO'S right foot or copy MOBY DICK....
You can't compete with a dead person, Carmine. Please let it go.
Its a whole wide open ether of creativity. Who in this industry has borrowed a lick
Other than Colaiuta?
Dont put a crime where there is none
When i think of drummers i always think of these 2 greats and Cozy powell for the 70s greatest drummers. also Ian Paice then a little later in the 70s Neal Peart
Cozy the greatest!
With age a lot of these aging rock stars say just whatever and expect us just to eat it
At this point, Carmine Appice is most famous for telling others that John Bonham copied his style.
lol, yeah, interviews like this is why I won't read Carmine's book..
Great stories !
Triplet Played on Double Bass Drums
Carmine has always been salty and has never sounded like Bonham
this guy should have played the kit like Bonzo then he wouldnt have to try to take credit for Bonzo's playing
Copied or did it better? I'd say did it WAY better if what he said is true. Appice I don't know, Zeppelin EVERYONE knows.
We all take from each other.. Zeppelin had great songs and a killer lead singer we'll leave at that.. hm
John Bonham..an English brick layer by trade… breaking drum skins for something to do…Bonham is the undeniable Best Drummer in Rock music.